BSGcast: 4.05 “The Ties that Bind”
Another monster plot development episode, yet somehow three Cylon Baseships blew up, and the mother of a Human/Cylon Hybrid got tossed out an airlock. Nice. Nat has her love of seeing the end of Cally, and Matt has a few problems with the episode itself. But we all loved that Epic Pimp-Slap, right? What were your thoughts? Let us know and you can win all kinds of goodies from Alienware in addition to the usual bragging rights for being a visionary and a genius! For the Mid-Season cliff-hanger we’ve got a $200 pair of Alienware Ozma 7 Headphones up for grabs! And just you wait to see what Alienware has in store for us to give away for the Series Finale…
Oh, and Matt makes mention of the Starbuck: Angel/Agitator SciFi promo video in this BSGcast, if you haven’t seen it, check it out here:
There’s a whole series of these, one for Six, one for Lee, Roslin, Baltar… good fun.
April 19th, 2008 at 9:14 am
the first time i liked cally in over 20 episodes…and she dies…..ironic
and WHAT happened to the 6s,8s, and 2s?????
and how come cavil scores with boomer?
and Wow…cinematography was AWESOME in this episode!!!!!!!
especially kara standing on the catwalk all backlit and scary as hell!
April 19th, 2008 at 9:38 am
I agree James, I loved Cally here. I feel like whenever they take a bitchy character and want to kill her, they really redeem her in her last moments of life (a la Kat). What I’m confused about is how we don’t really see any number 2s in all of this. I thought it would be good to show him since that is the only male model on the Natalie side.
Also, someone noticed this on the SciFi forums, but you can clearly see Orion’s belt when the basestars jump.
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/5320/cylonsorionfb0.jpg
April 19th, 2008 at 10:02 am
I noticed that, too. It also appears in the far lower right corner of the window Callie looks out in the airlock.
April 19th, 2008 at 10:16 am
Ohhhhh poor Matt. A Baltar-less episode… whatever shall you do?
Ok, smart ass comment done. Now on to the good stuff:
1. The whole Demitrius arc of the story (so far) SUCKS. It’s like they threw that in just to fill some more time.
2. I like that Lee is standing up for himself and for what he thinks is right. Hard to believe that Tom Zarek is becoming the good guy here.
3. Laura is becoming more and more of a rock hard bitch. Damn it, the Admiral needs to give her some booty so she’ll relax!
4. Cally- well it was nice to see an episode centered on her but (as they did with Kat) the moment they fix their attention on a supporting character she croaks. See a pattern here?
5. The Cylon arc was the only saving grace in this episode. Seeing the Basestars open up on each other… well that just brought a smile to my face.
6. In conclusion: After the last two awesome episodes, this one was a complete let down. It’s like they just threw together a whole lot of minor things that needed to be dealt with… and oh by the way, let’s kill someone for dramatic impact.
So yeah, all in all I feel let down by this one. But I do have to admit… the bitch slap from hell was pretty great. Especially since a lot of us have been wanting to do that to Cally since the last time she uttered that “This could be the last time I ever see Nicky” line.
Sorry to see Cally go though.
Who will I crush on now?
April 19th, 2008 at 10:47 am
Holy crap, Tory, that fraking bitch!
I damn near cried when Cally died. She has probably been the only innocent character in the entire show, and now she’s dead.
I think Tory just killed her to keep the secret, she wasn’t programmed or anything, it was her own free will.
And it totally doesn’t make sense that Boomer is making out with Cavil, I hope there is some deeper explanation.
I’m still holding my theory which is as follows:
The twelve models are the twelve lords of Kobol. The Cylon 7 original gods advanced the cylons to the biological when they met up with them between the two wars. There are no more copies of the final five because the final five are the original lords of Kobol, they just forgot. The original 7 that the cylons are modeled after are no longer around, maybe they are at earth. Head 6, Head Baltar, and Head Leobin are all the original personalities of the original lords of Kobol. Cara was saved by one or more of the lords of Kobol and is being lead by them mentally.
Also, we all love replacing you know what with Frak, but it was way overused in the scene with Kara and Sam
April 19th, 2008 at 11:32 am
Okay, sorry, but I am glad to see Cally go. Yes, I am not a Cally fan. Though, her ending, as it seems with all deaths of characters was done beautifully.
Hmm Boomer and Cavil?? Who knew that there was that much alcohol on a basestar. Either that, or he ‘fixed’ her programming.
What is going on with Kara? She sounds like Six in downloaded about still gettting used to her knew body when she’s talking with Sam. How she doesn’t feel her body. But I can’t see as the final Cylon. And the way she was backlit? Evil much?
I did like the opening with Adama and Roslin. The passage that he read was such a relfection of his relationship with her. She is in his blood, and he is lost without her.
Lee is kinda in limbo to me. Yes, he is standing up for his beliefs, but it always seems that someone else has to point it out to him, instead of him finding it for himself. The President, Romo, Zarek. When is he going to get some iniative for himself?
April 19th, 2008 at 11:43 am
Something interesting to point out, that “trinary star system” that Starbuck was searching for? In all likelihood they are talking about Alpha Centauri, the closest star star system to Earth (about 4 light years off). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_Centauri
April 19th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
YES! CYLON CIVIL WAR!!!!. I called this back at Crossroads. I felt that there was going to be a big conflict coming.
My theory back then was:
I think back when the cylons were being created, 12 personalities were implemented to give them better interaction with end users. From the original 12 models (personalities), the final five did not want to war with the humans. They saw the signs of the upcoming war between them and the colonials. I think that a small force of cylons who fell under the five controls left the whole, before the war. This means that the remaining seven personalties were the ones who originally started the first war.
I also think that the four (Tori, Anders, Tigh, Tyrol) are not REAL cylons. I think they are hybrids (like Hera). Tyrol made reference to his father being a priest and the final five being a big part of their faith. His father could have been one of the original five. All the four are full blown ANTI-CYLON fighters. I think this is a subconscious feeling they have being children of the original five. As for Tigh, being he is as old as Adama, I think he is like the hybrid from Razor. He was the first, which is why he has a lot of emotional problems, lol. He was the first for the five and the hybrid from Razor was the first for the other seven. The final five personalities probably wanted to see how Tigh would hold up with humans and sent him to the colonials, probably just left him to be an “orphan”. The other three’s models were created later and sent to colonials after the war to live naturally. They each found mates and Tyrol, Anders, and Tori were born.
Which goes back to my civil war theory. I didn’t think the seven would fight with each other. I assumed that there would be a group of old cylons (like in razor) waiting for the five to return and when they “sensed” their DNA, they would activate and follow them. I was anticipating old basestars and Galactica versus new basestars. Well, that was my theory. I am probably wrong, but its fun to try to figure it all out.
This ep was GREAT. Cally’s paranoid/depression theme was great. I already can’t wait for the soundtrack to come out. Did you all go to “The Music of Battlestar Galactica” concert in L.A. last week? It was so much fun. James Callis singing, good times.
It was hilarious. I saw this episode in a movie theater and at the part when Cally was spaced, some lady in the theater yelled, “YESSS!!”. Everyone just broke out in laughter. I didn’t think there was a lot of Cally hatred out there. lol
April 19th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
What a ride so far! While Cally was not a “major” player in our universe it was still gut wrenching to watch her blown out the air lock. I will reiterate what I said a week ago…Tori is the unstable Cylon at this juncture and is showing herself to be the “enforcer” of the group. I really believe she is going to inflict a lot of pain on some folks before it’s all said and done. The way they played out Cally’s dispair and hopelessness was powerful and when she looked at her baby and shot out that air lock I was genuinely shocked. I saw the preview but I really thought it might have been a dream sequence. How this affects Galen’s relationship with the other 3 is going to be riveting.
Last week I mentioned the possibility of Cylon nukes crossing in the stars…what a feeling when you finally realize the trap is sprung. There was no way Cavil was going down without retribution. Cavil and Boomer? It makes no sense. Obviously one is playing the other to some as yet unseen advantage…but which is the player and which is the playee? I also love the tension between all the skin jobs and the Centurions. Natalie having to say the ” magic word” was tense. It solidifies the desparate nature of the chance the 6’s, 2’s and 8’s are taking with returning the centurions to sentience. How odd to find myself feeling afraid for them when you realize there’s no rez ship waiting…
I loved the opening sequence with Adama and Roslin. The comfort level they’ve reached with each other comes so easy. Books have always played an important part of their trust in one another and it seems fitting that he helps her ease through the pain and suffering by having her imagine another world. Contrast that with her comments later on about covering for him sending Starbuck on her mission and it all spells one thing…L-O-V-E. I hope they profess that love before Roslin’s demise…they both desparately need to hear it and feel it in the open.
Lee is at home in the Quorrum. I think this was a wise choice to have him find his true calling. He has always been more like his grandfather anyway. Now he can be his own man and really help people in a way that is truly rewarding without the pressures of his father, Roslin or Kara. I believe RDM purposefully toned Lee down a bit over the last several episodes in expectations of his character exploding onto the Quorrum scene. Mark my words, Lee Adama will be greater than anyone in his family ever has been.
I can’t say enough how intense Kara is. The backlighting effect was chilling and so totally added to the mysticism surrounding her. At the same time you have her begging to be frakked so she can just feel anything, something…lost is not the word to describe her right now. It’s more like utter dismay and displacement.
Hmmm, no Baltar. Not even a brief shining moment for our burgeoning messiah… what was he up to this week? After seeing some great posts this week I am really looking forward to seeing where Baltar ends up in the scheme of it all.
This episode was tense, emotional and jaw dropping for me personally just because I really never thought Cally would get “evacuated.” R. I. P. Cally.
April 19th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
OMG this was such an intense, disturbing, and awesome episode! The best this season… the best in quite a while. Six of One was also awesome in most parts, but it also had some feel-good fluff (Lee’s sendoff scene – a bit too long)…but this one…my jaw dropped I don’t know how many times! And that was despite knowing the spoiler about Cally’s demise. Michael Taylor, you are now in serious competition for my favourite writer on BSG.
I actually kinda liked Cally in this episode, which is really weird, because I normally found her extremely annoying… But in the sense that I felt sorry for her and she was really well written and acted in this one. I was impressed that they confronted the “she proposed to him right after he had broken her jaw” issue head-on. However… @ Benji: Cally “innocent”?! Only if by that you mean “simple” (ahem) and narrow-minded. She shot Boomer in cold blood right in front of Tyrol’s eyes, and never regreted it. How is that ‘innocent’? And now she tried to kill a small child, her own child, what’s worse! “I’d rather have him dead that let Cylons have them” – WTF?
Tory is clearly losing her marbles and going through some big changes, the way she looked and acted when she propositioned Tyrol seemed to indicate self-loathing, emotional confusion and disintegration of her former identity and moral norms…I think she’s still struggling with what happened between her and Baltar… But she also quickly became ruthless when it came to self-preservation, although she also saved the baby Nicky. Yes, she is murderer, but funny how people shout “Evil Tory! Poor Cally!” What is worse, murdering someone who’s nothing to you, in order to save your skin, or murdering your own child only because of its racial makeup?
The only thing that is wrong with these episodes is that 40 minutes is not enough for all characters and storylines to be present, and having to wait another week is excruciating. No Caprica 6 for 2 episodes now, but she seems about to be back big time in the next episode. Judging from the previews and promo photos, Baltar is also coming back big time. And it seems like there will be more focus on Tory again, who has really turned into an interesting character, totally scary, a lot more vulnerable and more determined and ruthless than I could have guessed in S3. I can’t wait to see how the Baltar/Tory dynamics develops, this has been one of the more disturbing relationships on the show so far (and there is quite a competition in that regard!) and seemed to be a setup for some major plot points.
Speaking of disturbing relationships, how much longer will Anders put up with his verbally and emotionally abusive wife? Really, not even Cylon dedication or Cylon programming can explain being a doormat to such a degree.
Now, Boomer and Cavil – yuck – that’s just disgusting and creepy on many levels. And not just because he’s an old guy. I shouted in pain when I saw that kiss. There were hints in “The Rapture” that she was under his influence (”Cavil was right, God didn’t want us to have children”) and in Six Of One, many people thought it was hinted with the dance scene… but I was still hoping that it wouldn’t be true. Oh well. Life is a bitch.
Zarek is back! Quorum is back! And they addressed the disturbing (how many times have I used that word now?) lack of democracy in their democratic system! YAY!! I had been waiting for this for most of the season 3. It was annoying when Roslin seemed to be making al lthe decisions on her own, and political life in the fleet seemed non-existant.
Speaking of which, despite the overall darkness of the episode, I don’t remember ever laughing so hard at BSG as when Cavils were talking about ‘ethnic cleansing’ and ‘democracy’.
I don’t know how I’m going to get through the next week…
April 19th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
again 1 of the best episode of season 4, it fells like they are doing what the said to deviler a season 4 the fans than, the building a fan base….. i cant wait 4 the next episode, from the promo it seems that TIGH is going mad and cing his wife in CAPICA SIX, also did TORY is hot psyco bitch and also she is get in the o-cylon thing. and how the killed of CALLY was billilant u can tell she going 2 b bug splater on 1 of the ships know.
April 19th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
So, I just recently was introduced to BSG not too long ago. I watched the first season, ate it up, and proceeded to watch all of the seasons in an effort to catch up on everything before the final season and holy crap did I love it. But being a newbie, I could be way off so if I am, Im sorry.
I have an interesting thought on who the final cylon could be.
I think maybe its Zarek. If you look at the other final four, they are all close to individuals who hold influential positions or hold influential positions themselves, within the fleet. You have Anders who is close to Starbuck, Tigh who is close to Adama, Tory who is close to the president, and Tyrol who is the Chief Mechanic and I guess is close to the ship itself. (if you really want to go that deep into it.)
Looks to me after this episode, Zarek is getting close to Lee who, now, is a member of the Quorrum. Interesting. Seems to be a pretty influential place to be in itself at least to me. This really could be setting up Zarek to be the last person close to a member of a pretty bigtime position within the fleet. Unless its Lee being close to the Quorrum itself, but I really dont think he’ll be outted as the last cylon. (It would be pretty WTFrak, but I dont think thats the way this is going down.)
Also I thought it was pretty darkly funny when Cavil was all like “We’re machines, dear. We don’t have souls.” And Im pretty sure that Six is thinking maybe releasing the Centurions was not such a hot idea when she had to say “please.” Ha.
Anyway, I dont really know if my theory made sense, but it made sense in my head. So thats my story and Im stickin to it. WOOT.
Peace, love, and pirate flags, all.
April 19th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
THINGS ARE HEATING UP!
What a great eposide! We are beginning to see some evolution from the final four skin jobs. Tigh is growing tired and annoyed; the Cheif is becomming more and more confused about what his purpose is, and Tory is getting quite comfortable with her new power and wont hesitate to use it for self preservation. Anders remains idol as he tries to reconnect with Starbuck on a intimate level but only finds that she is “not the women he married”.
First about Cally, this was such a powerful performance from her. BSG really knows how to get great performances from their cast extras and this was no exception. As I watched her walk toward the launch tube with her child, I was sad and shocked that this women could not stand the thought of bearing a cylon child that she was going to end her and her son’s life. “no don’t do it” is all I could think as she prepared to launch both of them into space. The shot of her holding on to her baby’s blanket as Tory flips the switch is hearbreaking. Cally was truley a victim. Her frozen dead body floating through space silently was very memorable. I have never seen such a death delivered with such power in any TV show. One more thing on Cally, don’t forget her line to the Doctor “I have not felt right since we reached the nebula.” Why did she suddenly grow ill? Didn’t the President get her cancer back as they began to get closer to the nebula?
That brings us to Tory. Tory is now the most black and white of all the characters right now. Unless Ron Moore thows us a curve ball in the next few weeks; Tory is heading down the path of evil. She is also a good character to explore the darkness of the human or cylon condition. I have always thought this character is the most self serving next to Balter himself. Also, I beleive this women’s days are numbered here. The Cheif will have to find out the truth about his wife at some point and exact revenge. Much like Tony killing off Ralphie on the Sopranos, I beleive Tory will be wacked.
Concerning Starbuck, she mentioned something that I couldn’t stop thinking about after the show ended. Something to the effect that she felt she was here but not really here. Is she dead or resurrected as a cylon? The previous show she mentioned how she saw Earth and knew she had been there before. The Cheif and Anders agreed in the seson 3 finale the music reminded them of somethng at childhood. If Starbuck is the final cylon it may be the final five were taken from Earth at an early age and made into cylon hybrids. Just a theory like my others which are always wrong.
That shows you how far ahead of us Ron Moore really is with this show. Lines are being drawn here on BSG more than ever before. The next few weeks will prove very interesting indeed.
Any comments on my rambling I would love to hear them.
“take that you frakin toasters”
Ben
April 19th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
Hold the phone,
(speaking of which – when’s the last time we’ve heard “this is actual” with the archaic telephone??)
But that’s not my point… What the *+#!? I mean really, what just happened here? Of course it would have been way to early for some one to find out about the new “skin jobs” and blurt it out, but I was a bit sorry to see the only person to learn the straigt dope get blown out the airlock. I did, however find this a very good move on the part of the BSG Crew. The whole episode – up to that point – I kept saying to myself “c’mon guys, shock us with something”. I am glad that they shocked us – it’s what keeps the series watchable and “real”. Sorry to see Caly go, though – I’ve always liekd her, even in the earlier episodes where she was this quirky kind of background person.
Greatest moments in this episode:
- when Lee gave Roslin the “frack around…”
- the “hats off” to the U.S.S. Enterprise (the weapons locker was designated 1701D”
- was there a “hats off” to Tarantino, or is it just me – “the magic word” reminded me of Harveys Keitels “so please, pretty please with sugar on top – now clean the fracking car”
Questions that now arise:
- what will be the significance of the two hybrid babies?
- what miight happen to any one of the final five if they are “killed” and they are a long way away from any resurrection ship?
- if Baltar is a pimp, then is Tory now the new Vamp?
- Where are they now? If the constellation of Orion can clearly be seen the way we see it, then they have to be v e r y close. Even in another arm of our galaxy, Orion is not Orion…
- what kind of ultimate show-down are we headed for with the Adamas and Roslin?
- hwo can they expect us to make it through the coming week before the next show airs???
LLAP. MTFBWO and all that other good stuff,
Ripley
April 19th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
maybe its just because my emotions are running high because i jsut became a father but…
Torry needs to DIE!!!
and i think the Chief should do it
April 19th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
Well, I didn’t think this was as good as last weeks. Like a lot of other fans I never liked Cally. (Except her hair, mine is currently like Cally’s season 1-3 hair. So sad her old hair was gone in season 4) I hated Cally up until I watched the last BSG again today and she was holding Nicky in the air lock, I was like oh poor Nicky, Cylon daddy and no mommy, (poor kid) and you could tell that Cally loved her baby, it was sad that she died for that reason. But over all I’m very happy to see Cally go. And Tory, what an evil bitch!
I liked Roslin better this week, still a bit bitchy but, she has all ways been at least a bit bitchy. I wonder what was up with Adama reading to her is this a onetime random thing or is this going to be an ongoing thing. Adama and Roslin haven’t really made up yet big time, they are talking, and I guess that is better than “…you’re not the dying leader you thought you were.”
Does Starbuck seem to be, like going more insane to you? I’d be freaked out to be on that ship, she keeps changing directions and stuff, and pacing above them, wired. And oh poor Anders! Starbuck, that was harsh, then they frak. Hmm, I think this fight, frak pattern has happened before with Apollo.
Well that’s all this week!
-Sam Kellie
April 19th, 2008 at 5:34 pm
Ok, I’ll try to keep this short. This is more of a review than analysis of the episode.
Simply said, Episode 405 was a total disappointment overall.
Until the Cylons started airing, I was just wondering the whole time “is this it?” and generally did not like what I saw.
First of all, I did not like the whole scene aboard the trash ship. I hated the writing and dialogue, it was so not BSG standard, especially between Anders and Kara. I mean one is one of the Final Five and the other is an Angel of God, how can they not have a better conversation?
The whole Lee scene was pretty bland too. Poor writing and dialogue. Didnt like it.
Cally’s part was all right for the most part, it started off a bit on the wrong foot I think. They could have cut it a bit short or done it differently.
Ok, now, if it was shot on a Base Star, then it was amazing. In fact every scene where a Cylon was present it was spectacular, especially the Seven on the Cylon fleet.
I loved love loved the Cavil trap. I never expected it, and it blew me away, right when I thought things had calmed down for a bit, they just got 1000 times worse! I mean it’s not just half a dozen cylons being shot…it’s whole Base Stars being attacked! Base Stars on Base Stars…it was spectacular, and these scenes saved the episode.
Also, although I find that Cally gave into Tori’s brainwashing a bit too fast and easily, and I find that her giving her baby to a Cylon was pretty bad writing also, I found the whole super slap and baddass Tori scene amazing also.
I think the scene would have been a lot better if Tori had taken the baby by foce and smacked Kelly in one smooth motion, AFTER Cally started believing her. But Cally giving her baby away…that was very poorly done.
But the super slap firmly demonstrated Tori is a machine after all with incredible power, and the fact that she finally started acting like a real Cylon, for Cylon interests, even though it goes against my theory that the FIve are nice priests who want to unite both Cylon and HUman, I found it was pretty good.
Her whole speech totally convinced me that Tori was all nice and honest, and I belived her cause it’s what my theory is about the Five, and so I was pretty shocked when it turned out to be all a lie.
It shows not all of the Final Five have a common personality or goal. Some are “more cylon” and some are “More human”. Tori certainly showed us which she is. I have a feeling that the Five will be divided, some will support the 1s, 4s and 5s and some will support the 2s , 6s, 8s and 3s. My prediction is that there will be three major factions fighting an all out war. It’ll be a war of ideals, and not a war of human vs cylon necessarily. So you’ll have the “evolution and co-existance” faction with 2s, 3s, 6s, 8s some of the Final Five, some humans who are fighting for freedom of will, and are trying to understand things and co-exist and find earth. Then you have the “tradition-oriented cylons” who want to keep things as they were, with no freedom of will to Centurions or Raiders, and no peace with the humans. This will be a Cylon-only faction. Then, you will have a human-only faction led by people who want all cylons dead and will be against the humans who have allied with the cylons.
So an all-human faction, all-cylon faction and a mixed human-cylon faction all waging a huge war. In the end, I believe the human-cylon factino will win
My guess is Tori will be on the Cylon-only faction. Tigh and Tyrol will be on the human-cylon faction. Roslin on the human-only faction and the Adamas on the human-cylon faction. Then of course you have Starbuck and her trash ship doing their own thing in a galaxy far far away
So in conclusion, overall, I give this episode a big fat 3 out 5 stars. Overall a diappointment, but with some key plot elements that saved it a bit. And I managed to have some analysis in there…again, I apologize for the length. I cant seem to shut up when it comes to BSG…
Adalla
April 19th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
Holy frak Ripley…good catch on the 1701D…LOL. Never occurred to me!
Zarek as the final Cylon? Yeah, I like it…like it a lot. It would make quiet and pivotal sense. Somewhere Richard Hatch is leaning back in his chair laughing at us…
After all, Zarek all but handed Lee the Caprican Quorrum spot. Zarek (if number 5) could also be aligned as being close to Roslin also. After all he is the Vice President. Perhaps the final five’s programming is that of ascertaining those closest to them capable of finishing the cycle. Not any one person but rather one personality.
I like the idea of the final five being from Earth…but it seems just a little too easy perhaps.
I have to say whole heartedly that ever since I stumbled onto this site the discussions here have absolutely enhanced my BSG experiences. I really appreciate you all. Thanks for being such cool “co-forumers” ??? Is that a word..LOL!
April 19th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
Roslin continues to “SCREAM” Cylon to me. It actually makes too much sense, for her not to be the final of the five.
I think Anders feeling Kara slipping will try and get closer to her by telling her he’s a Cylon.
So, Hera isn’t the only Hybrid…
Lee has once again become manipulated by outside sources he shouldn’t trust. Good or bad the guy sways like a wind sock.
Cally….Poor, Poor Cally…Her fate was sealed as soon as she crawled into the wall of the weapons locker. If Tigh killed his wife, He wouldn’t have blinked an eye (Wink, Wink) at killing Cally. Someone was going to have to do it. She couldn’t have ever understood.
Have the Raiders and Centurions on Cavel’s Basestar’s been “Lobotomized”? If not, How does he plan to explain his actions against his race?
The possibility of a “Third Entity” is becoming more real…
April 19th, 2008 at 5:38 pm
David,
I think the chief will kill Tory. The last supper depiction has the chief with a knife with the look of revenge. A little Hamlet thrown in by Ron Moore for good measure.
Nice observations Lt. Ripley. I like the Pulp Fiction reference. Might be true since Tarantino is a crazy BSG fan.
April 19th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
Cally had it coming. Now, I’ve liked Cally since the beginning, but when she decided that the only way to deal with her husband being a Cylon was to take the kid out the airlock with her, she deserved to get spaced. Some people can say it’s understandable since she was a little crazy from the lack of sleep and the drugs, but for a mother to even consider killing her young child is beyond evil (and I don’t mean that in a “right-to-life’ kind of way).
April 19th, 2008 at 7:25 pm
Regarding cally going to space nicky:
Err, didn’t cally say she was killing nicky to keep the cylons from doing whatever it is they were planning on doing with him? I don’t think that’s evil. Hell, what would you do if you had a choice between leaving your child at the mercy of people who as far as you are concerned are evil incarnate, or killing him?
April 19th, 2008 at 7:27 pm
I haven’t commented here before but after this episode I just had to.
BSG is far and away my favourite show on television. This episode is another example of why. It was intelligent, creative and beautiful whilst at the same time being disturbing and dark. There were so many moments when I was genuinly shocked, when Lee spoke up in the Corum, when Cally overheard them say they were skinjobs, when she hit Wallen with the wrench and of course the massive backhand Ric Flair chop from Torri. All of this though was nothing compared to the death scene… it was heartbreaking.
The scene where Cally was in the infirmery was very well written, it gave the character a depth which she hasn;t ever had. I never disliked her, but she just never got a chnace to be anything other than a whinner… and this showed more strength than she has before. The scene where she was debating what to do after discovering her husband was a Cylon and his voice was muffled and inhuman was another amazing move. Well done to this fantasic writing team again, one of the best episodes I have seen for a long time. Torri has gone from a dull character that nobody cared about to an interesting and complex character in the space of two episodes.
Must say that Doc Cottle being back was a highlight for me. He is one of the best characters on the show.
I still say that Felix is the final Cylon. He stabbed Baltar in the neck after Gaius said that “he was the real traitor” and he then lief on the stand for no reason other than to ensure baltar went down. Plus, he looks shifty… he holds an important position in the crew and above and has become a darker and more miserable character in the last two series.
Oh… and for the record I have loathed the President since the minute I saw her. She is just so… so much like a teacher. lol
April 19th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
Holy frak. “All this has happened before and will happen again, and again, and again, and again”. We are seing it happening right before our eyes in the first three episodes of season 4. This is my theory, baltar is the one true God, the one who programed them. The twelve Lords of Kobol are the twelve cylon models. The colonials are the descendants of the final five and are all cylons, humanitys children. Baltar is the leader of the thirteenth tribe on earth. The 12 cylon models live with the guilt of wiping out humanity on earth and a war broke out between the final five and the 7 known models over how to fix what they had done. The final five gave birth to the twelve colonies. The 7 other models didn’t agree with this so we have the 2 cylon wars. Adama said “you can’t play God and wash your hands of the things you’ve done”. He also said “we have to keep humanity going at ANY COST”.
when they finally get to earth they will find the twelve models there, with Baltar sitting high on his throne like in the original series when he was on the basestar. I think the last seen will be Galactica in orbit above earth, hundreds of basestars jumping in around Galatica and the fleet. Then hell is unleashed and thousands of missles hitting the ships and distroying humanity again. This is the best drama sci-fi in television or the big screen history. It outstrips Star Trek or Star Wars by 20 miles, leaving them in the dust. I can’t wait to see what the writers have in store for us. Zack is the twelvth model, this is why Lee and Admiral Adama talked about it. His image is in the picture of the final five with Deanna.
P.S. Matt do you realize you look like the younger brother of Gyis Baltar, are you the one true God or a pimp, Nat you definitely are a sister of the Sharon model. lololololol. both you guys rock
April 19th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
Cally getting spaced….that’s a bold statement.
The 4th season continues to impress.
I’ve been reading all the speculation, so i have to put my hat in the ring.
Starting from the top, the Cylon POV in the basestars is ALWAYS interesting. The human viewpoint of BSG is always superb, but analysis and exploring the Cylon world is something I feel should be done much more in the show. The Cylons as a machine race are very interesting, and somehow I feel that the events playing out in the present correlate directly to the events of teh First Cylon War. It’s never explored in depth why exactly the Cylons rebelled in the first place. Yes, they were rebelling against slave conditions, but I feel there is much more to the Cylon war for liberation.
The scene with Cavil being reborn on the resurrection ship and his interplay with Boomer, that strikes to me of manipulation. Boomer was a sleeper agent, so in a way, Cylon society will always be somewhat of a mystery to her. Her human roots will always be a part of her, and she can never return to that. Cavil could have come across to her as a sympathetic ear to her problems, such as being replaced on Galactica with Athena, the sheer fact that she is fighting against humanity, the list goes on and on. She is young, he is older and craftier, like a mechanical fox.
Moving on to Tory and Tyrol, the identity crisis seems to be in full effect. Tyrol fought against the Cylons, and him being on is a mindfrak. Self actualization is up in the air. Tory, what her specific identity is has never been explored in depth before her outing as a Cylon. She moved from a midrange character to the forefront as one of the Five. Looking at it, I think she doesn’t actually see being a Cylon as a bad thing, like everything is finally clicking into place. Human morals and standards are becoming less and less important.
Moving on to Cally, namely the scene with Cottle in the infirmary, what made me take notice was the fact that she said she would kind of prefer it of Tyrol beat her, at least she would know he felt something for her. This sounds like all kinds of wrong. She seemed to be slipping further and further away from reality to think something like that. Tyrol doesn’t care, she says? He married her! Granted, he did beat her down something fierce, but in Tyrol’s defense, he was not in his right mind at the time. Perhaps he partially married Cally because he beat the crap out of someone who loved him, eho knows.
More and more can be said on my part about this episode, but I do want to point out the fact that Natalie had to say ‘please’ to the Centurions as a sign of bad things to come. Their level of intelligence seems kind of….insidious, compared to the human Cylons.
Finally, the spacing scene with Cally and Tory. I think Cally had been suicidal for a while. If you look at the camera work in this episode, most of the time, Cally is in a haze, the camera is blurred deliberately, showing the audience Cally is seeing things because of the drugs. She’s paranoid, hopped up, and all over the place. The part where Tyrol is talking about having another baby with Cally and his words are blurred out is just perfect. She’s in shock, and weighing the pros and cons of staying with Tyrol or leaving. She decides to bash his head in with a wrench.
The scene with Tory in the launch tube was inspired. Tory seems to have accepted her true identity the easiest. She has this nonchalant look. Being a Cylon does not bother her. Her speech to Cally seems equal parts truth and lie. Perhaps Tory spaced Cally because Cally was going to kill her baby, and Tory felt that a woman who would do such a thing deserved to die. Tory backhanding Cally at least 6 feet? Too cool for words. That’s Cylon strength, baby. And Cally is not a big woman, so getting bitchslapped like that takes the piss and vinegar out of her. Tory spaced Cally because she wanted to. period.
On a final note, I have to commend Nicki/Nicky(?) Clyne. She gave Cally that deranged look in this episode. Plus, she’s a hot bitch. I’d frak her in a second.
April 19th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
I think BSG is trying to tell us something. Tory is developing and almost god like complex. Where she feels that she can do anything without guilt or punishment. I know when she killed Calley she was technically trying to protect thier secret… but the look in her eyes, the way she was acting. It was like she was looking for an opportunity to kill someone. Just to see what it felt like. And the fact that she killed Calley infront of Niki. Man that kid is going to be messed up.
I think BSG is also trying to show us something about the chief. There were numerous referrences to Tryell beating Calley. I think that’s part of why calley was doing drugs. She seemed to be getting flashbacks to some awefull fight where he not only hit her but beat the crap out of her. I think she was remembering one of thier worst fights. Calley has obviously been hiding it, except for in that particular occasion she couldn’t because he broke her jaw. Notice when he slammed his fist on the table and little niki started crying. The chief kept apologizing over and over as if he felt guilty. Why would he feel so guilty for slamming his fist on the table unless he knew his son was afraid daddy would get violent again.
We all have these feelings towards those characters “No, not them, they’re the good guys. They’d never hurt anyone.” I thin bsg is trying to show us otherwise. At least with Tory and Tyrell. I really want to belive they are here to help the human race but they seem really messed up right now. I’m really hopeing it’s just because they are trying to deal with thier new reality and it’s not programming becoming active.
There was another part I noticed as well. Calley said she hadn’t gotten a wink of sleep since they entered that nebula. Could she be a cylon?
I did feel slightly let down with the cylon war. They kind of led us on the whole time to believe that they were going to wake up d’iana but instead the 1’s lead an attack on the 6’s, 8’s and Leobens’s ( I forget his number ) and we didn’t even find out what the end result is. I’m sure we’ll find out next episode however it would have been nice to get a little closure. However there are only 60 minutes in and hour and these episodes are only 40 minutes long. If it came to a choice between focussing on Calley or the Cylon civil war I say Let Calley have a good send off. We have tones of episodes left to explore the cylon war. She deserved some focus.
April 19th, 2008 at 9:40 pm
This has been the best episode so far imho. I was little impatient with all this setup in the past two episodes.
I wasn’t liking what was happening with Lee at first, but now I see that it’s story is on par with the others. The Lee, Roslin, Tom Zarek story is the most and maybe the only allegorical storyline left, touching on how government tends to bend the rules of free society to make things a little more convenient for itself in a time of war.
I think it must be brought up that Calli’s passing remark about not getting sleep since coming near the nebula now puts her in the running as a Cylon which means that she could be back and that the baby is 100% Cylon as opposed to being it being currently half-Cylon. I’m pleased with either story with the baby as it is. It’s just a theory, but the writers could just be messing with our heads.
It seems believable that Boomer is with Cavil now since Cavil realised that the 8s fall in love very easily. I could imagine him manipulating her to keep her in his pocket for just an occasion such as that, where he needed the vote.
I don’t think Calli’s behaviour in trying to kill the kid is that unreasonable though. She wasn’t entirely of right mind, being fatigued and on anti-depressants and when you’re hit with a whopper such as what she was hit with, she must have realised that her baby was basically an abomination and she had to do something about it.
Oh and the Cylon civil war is guaranteed awesomeness. Definitely the strongest story going on right now. Everything about it is just boss.
And Tori was so frakking smoking hot. It does show that as characters the 4 of the 5 will be evolving a lot over the course of the season.
April 19th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
OMG!!! Did anyone see this clip for next week? They are implying that it could be roslin…. Either that or another mislead from RDM. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BEk9iMiKrk&feature=related
April 19th, 2008 at 10:58 pm
Hmm. Ok, this episode elicited a very visceral reaction from me. I usually am feeling warm fuzzies at the end of each episode, but this one left me feeling gut-punched and depressed (initially). Of course I missed the episode preview, so Cally’s death was definitely unexpected. Too bad she couldn’t survive a 2nd spacing
I enjoyed the cylon angst and manipulation, although I believe Natalie’s faction should have been prepared for Cavil’s inevitable double-cross (send only one ship to the rendevous, with a heavy raider or two ready to jump away and report if things go bad). I get the feeling that Cavil knows who the final 5 are, and why they aren’t represented in the “unity.” Maybe that’s why he’s model #1, and why he doesn’t believe in God. And the “please” moment with the toasters was especially sweet. Just think… the centurians wake up to find that the war is essentially won, but their lot in life hasn’t improved any; they just ended up trading one set of flesh-&-blood masters for another. And there will be more blood to follow.
I’m not that surprised to see tensions flare on the flying-septic-tank-from-hell. Noone knows whether Starbuck’s a skin-job, but Helo and Anders are quick to defend her regardless. With the cramped quarters, the constant course corrections, everyone but Helo and Anders being “volunteered” (Gaita has to especially be pissed by that), and Starbuck playing Captain Ahab hunting her Great White Whale (arghhh, there be trinaries out there), it’s no wonder tempers are flaring. Oh, and let’s not forget that SMELL!
I’m also not surprised to see Anders defending and trying to get close to Starbuck. He’s almost certain she’s a skinjob, and wants to be there to pick up the pieces when she finally aknowledges it to herself. I can’t see him ‘fessing up to her about himself until she’s ready to believe, or until someone else outs him.
Yes, Tory is as cracked as humpty-dumpty. First, finding out she’s a cylon, then getting frakked body and soul by Baltar, trying to find where she fits into things, and obviously feeling drawn on some level to Tyrol… she’s unrepentently ready to do whatever it takes to protect herself and the others (and the hybrids).
Lee joining the Quorum and opposing Roslin’s iron-handedness looks like a promising turn of events. Zarek being the final cylon would definitely fit in with the theory that the final five are placing themselves near power to manipulate the outcome. Not only is he VP under Roslin, but he was Baltar’s VP and major supporter (pre-occupation) as well. He did hard time for trying to manipulate public opinion against the ruling class back on the colonies too, which lead to him publishing a very subversive and influential text (like Baltar, without the Jesus motif). Can’t wait to find out if it is him.
One thing that I’ve been pondering about the whole “again and again” thing: maybe the cycle begins with some disaster on Earth, and comes back full circle. Imagine if some disaster struck humanity and the only way to save some remnant was to colonize another planet (or we simply wanted to colonize another planet sans disaster). We’re (slowly) getting closer to bioengineering clones and creating autonomous artificial intelligence, but we’re not getting far with space travel (much less FTL-capability). We’d have to pack all the DNA we want to take (plants, animals, people) into a small slow tin can and aim for a likely speck in the sky. The going would be slow, space would be at a premium, and you couldn’t pack enough people to make a viable breeding population, even in cryo storage. But if you packed 12 bioengineered people into cryo storage and put a DNA bank aboard for them to recreate life with, they might appear to be gods to the people they created (on Kobol). If the “gods” abused their authority, the humans might rebel and leave Kobol and try to make it on their own. Settling the colonies and creating the cylons is just the flip-side of that relationship, with a disaster necessitating the exodus back to Earth.
Apologies for the novel-length post.
April 20th, 2008 at 12:29 am
Concerning the Final Five
Ok, now I’m not sure if anyone else notice this but have you notice that Four of the final five all have T names…?
For example:
Tory Foster, Samuel T. Anders, Saul Tigh, and Galen Tyrol…. Now if I’m right… then the final Cylon has to have a T in the first name… My guess (And i don’t wanna believe it) is Tom Zerek.
April 20th, 2008 at 2:33 am
I had to commend roberto elliotto and librlmeh on their superb theories. I loved both of them, and think both are very plausible. I havnt seen or been in a BSG discussion like this one. Some amazing theories by everyone.
Roberto,
I like your theory because I always assumed that the Final Five and the Seven were at peace with each other on my own theories, and that the Seven are forbidden to think about the Five because the Five are somewhat holy in cylon society, as in perhaps the most advanced cylon humanoid models, or perhaps the programmers and creators of the Seven, or perhaps as 100% human clones.
But you are suggesting that the Five and Seven were at war with each other, and that the Seven are not supposed to even think about the Five because they are after all enemies and cannot speak of the past. Cavil, as model number 1 certainly seems to fulfill the role of the protector of the “secret”. And as someone suggested here, Cavil problably knows all about the Five, who they are, what they are and he might have been created to preserve this secret, hence why he’s willing to blow up the entire Cylon Fleet with the 2s 6s and 8s onboard.
Baltar as being the leader of the 13th Tribe, I like that idea too. After all, the only way I’d accept that Baltar is not the Final Cylon, is if he were the “13th Cylon” or related to the 13th Tribe and Earth somehow.
librlmeh,
I love your theory too! I mean we can truly say the cycle ends and beings with Earth or an Earth-like planet. I mean, I bet it’s always a different planet, but they end up being called Earth and Kobol and the 12 Colony names over and over because there is always some of the religion that survives the apocalypses.
See the question is, does the cycle go from Earth-to-Earth. Or from Earth-to-Kobol, or Kobol to the 12 colonies, or 12 colonies to Earth…are these 3 seperate cyles or part of the same big cycle? Because a catastrophe obviously occurred on Kobol, so the 13 tribes left. Then a catastrophe hit the 12 colonies, so they left. Are these the same cycle repeating, or part of the larger cycle?
I personally think it’s got to be 1 planet. So Earth-Kobol-12 colonies-Earth Cycle. Or Kobol-12 colonies-Earth-Kobol cycle. One or the other. Probably Earth I’m guessing, since the show ends with Earth, and it’d only make sense if they end the cycle, so that we see the whole cycle, understnad it all, and then connect the dots and make comparisons with our own history and world. The Egyptians, Mayans, etc. The Mayan calendar that ends one of it’s cycles in 2012, on the verge of a world wide catastrophe? Things are certainly not looking too good on our world today.
Anyways, I always belived the key to understadning the entire series and the “great cycle” was understanding the 13th Tribe, the Lords of Kobol, the Five Priests/Final Five, and Baltar
But I truly thin the 13th Tribe is the key to everything…
April 20th, 2008 at 3:22 am
I think this episode had a lot going for it, but it was to wildly unfocus.
April 20th, 2008 at 10:41 am
Robert O…I’m with you on that…see my post above. I think more and more that the final one is Zarek.
Adalla, I agree that to understand the 13th tribe is to understand the cycle. I think that after they find Earth that a catastrophe will occur and Earth will be the next Kobol in the cycle.
I personally would love to see the storyboards and endless notes that the show’s creators have…not to know what will happen…just to see how much of it there is and follow the thought trail through the years of writing…AMAZING I’m sure!
April 20th, 2008 at 10:48 am
Anyone catch the Star Trek reference? I lol when 3 of the final five met in room 1701D. Moore tips his hat to the the next gen Enterprise’s registry number.
Also interesting that the Cylon are repeating what happened to the humans. The cylon revolted against the humans, and now the centurians -who were similarly built as tools- are revolting against some of the other models. Another repeating cycle?
April 20th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
I wanted to comment on some people saying not enough happens in Season 4 or that Starbuck is a wasted plotlinehese days.
BSG is a character driven drama not plot driven with cliff hangers and magical surprises like shows like Lost. The show slowly unveils its premise and how each character fits into the grand scheme of things.
I love the contridiction of each character. Starbuck’s quest for Earth is growing interesting since she can’t remember the way anymore. If you watched Razor it explains that Starbuck is not to be allowed to reach Earth since she will bring about the apocalypse.
April 20th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Robert and Adam: about the T’s in the final five names, you forgot about Kara Thrace.
It might be her and not Tom Zarek.
April 20th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
a little laugh…
High School Archetypes (not to be taken seriously)
The Adopted Kid = # 8 Sharon
)
(her cover story has her as adopted)
The Bully = #? Sal Tigh
(All of season 1 and 2 and 3)
The Class Clown = #1 = Brother Cavil
(Tell me he doesn’t make you laugh…I dare you
The Entrepreneur = #5 = Doral
(Too clean cut and wheeling dealing)
The Jock = #? Sam T Anders
(Go C-Bucks)
The Nerd = #4 = Simon
(butterfly has to be a caterpiller first….Doctors have to become nerds first)
The Outsider = #2 = Leoben
(He may as well be Batman with his one track obsession with Kara….I’d put down money that he never once went to any of
Pimp master Baltars mixed cylon and human orgys on parked colonial one….oh noooo he just hung out with cara in his toaster cave cooking her dinner….)
The Princess = #6 = Caprica
(prettiest girl in school)
The Rebel = #3 = Deanna
(come on who is more of a rebel among the Cylons…..remember the eye of jupiter and rapture…plus the constant offing herself…
The Regular Kid = Gaylen Tyrol
(he just is…)
The Snitch/Troublemaker = Tori
(two words for you fixed election oh and other two words for you….AIR LOCK!)
The Stoner = Laura Rosalyn
(oh come on you leave Laura alone on New Caprica for a few days and she finds the pot in record time…..)
Seriously Theory……
After the first Cylon Vs 12 Colony War….The cylons left…
Guess where they went…(ie reference to we know more about your mythology than you do, said by Boomer in Season Two.)
EARTH!
They leveled earth. after aligning them selves with 50% of the population and destroy all of the earth humans.
after some time they had a civil war because well that’s the way they are…The 5 cylon models won and chose
to banish the other 7 rather than destroy them.
So the 7 are programmed not to think about the other 5 ever because well if you were one of the 5 you’d do the same thing to.
The 7 go back to the 12 colonies and destroy them….
here is the harsh thing
When Kara and Co. get to earth they find out all of this….
Kara doesn’t find her body in a crashed ship….She finds the body of the final cylon and no it’s not her it’s somebody
that really upsets her however…so much….
she puts her dog tags around the neck of the pilot has a conversation with Leoben over it because he’s there to helps her build the fire.
and burns the body.
He points out to her her pattern of self loathing and isn’t it time she dropped it…after all Leoben really was all along trying to help her
face her destiny which is to out grow the self destructive patterns she’s come to embrace her entire life…because if she is unable to do it none of the others will be able to follow her lead…hence the tag “she is the herald of the apocalypses.
Leoben did see the truth. They are all doomed to follow the pattern of self destruction and she knew if you could end it in herself
then cylon and humans could all survive and finally find peace together. (Kara has been told time and time again the life she was living no matter how talented she was at it was a lie to her true calling…
Lee comes onto the scene Leoben says something really cool. (and then walks off) Kara finally drops the act and tells Lee everything for the first time ever…and at last they are finally together…..(the body she finds in the cock pit is Sam’s body…)meaning Sam never confesses to her that he’s a Cylon and why would he after what she said she would do to him if he turned out to be….
April 20th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
I really should re read my stuff…
Kara finds Sam in the crashed ship …that is ironically a Viper? of sorts
not the final cylon…..
I have no idea who the final one could be but I know it can’t be Kara because the writers are manipulating everyone to believe she is…
I think the head, angelic beings brought her back the same way ahemmmmm they created the skin job models of cylons and well
it retrospect it was a mistake….
April 20th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
All I can say is I’m glad that I am not on Starbuck’s crew just waiting around for her to crazy up more coordinates.
The writers make it difficult for me to choose a side. Who represents good and evil in this galactic chess game? Is Kara Thrace truly the harbinger of death or…is it just a matter of perspective? Perhaps she will lead humanity into a cylon-human alliance that the hybrid narrowly envisions as the apocalypse. The end of all things as we know it, and yet a new beginning?
Maybe one path continues the cycle, and the other breaks it. But now I’m just talking out of my head.
April 20th, 2008 at 6:43 pm
i never get on fan forums, im usally a quite person. but yesterday something told me i had to go on, it was like a switch went off in my head and i just had to do it.huuuuuum! any ways did you notice how they are playin the story arc with starbuck and her ship and crew. did you ever see the bounty with anthony hopkins and mel gibson it feels very simular. it even sounds like a tall ship with the sounds in the back ground.
Kirsty, i think you are totally right about tory. Librimeh i really like your theory of the the cycle of life, we think a like when it comes to BSG.
ADALLA, thanks for the compliment on my theories on BSG. Im wondering does any one her that dam music, its every where. its like some thing from child hood. i can bearly here the melody, ohhhhhhhh there it is, there must be some kind a way out of here.
April 20th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
Zack adama is the 12 cylon it makes so much sense, said the joker to the thief.
April 20th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
“There must be some other way outta here….”
April 20th, 2008 at 9:15 pm
“If you watched Razor it explains that Starbuck is not to be allowed to reach Earth since she will bring about the apocalypse.” – Ben Sona
I dont remember hearing the Hybrid say that. In fact the Hybrid says the Seven, now Six, who think themselves without sin, will suffer, one splintering into many, and then THEY will be lead to the promised land (how can it be anything but Earth) on the wings of an Angel (nobody right now besides Kara knows the location of Earth. Plus Kara has been compared to that figurine with Angels that is on Adama’s model ship, not to mention the angelic wing tatoo on her arm). So the Hybrid prophecizes that Kara will indeed reach Earth, and lead the Cylons to Earth. Unless they have some other promised land…
Now what about the humans? Who will lead them if Kara will lead the Cylons to the promised land…will the humans tag along? Ah….good stuff…
Adalla
April 20th, 2008 at 9:22 pm
The foreshadowing to Cally’s death at the beginning was subtle; I didn’t even notice the first time through. Benji V had commented that they thought that Tory killed Cally out of free will rather then her programming causing her to do so, but as a Cylon Tory’s decisions would be based off her programming. The error made ties in with the Homunculus logical fallacy in the theory of mind; in order to go against her programming she would have to use reasoning skills that would come from her programming.
Being devil’s advocate on the Cavils’ behalf, I don’t think they are necessarily evil. There has yet to be a character on BSG that is completely evil or completely good. When we saw a one he gave Galen genuine and helpful advice, they admitted the Cylons were wrong to have taken the colonies. It was after being airlock (Grace Park I remember saying in on a Q&A that each cylon model can share memory information within itself) that the Cavils turned especially sour towards humans, and we see again in this episode how they react to being killed. The Cavils have good reasons for what they do when you put yourself in their shoes. This is not to say that I agree with the ones’ policy, just that we shouldn’t look at it in black and white. The relationship between Boomer and one is a little weird, but like Romo Lampkin said maybe Cylon love is different than human love. (Webber, verstehen) Still weird though. . .
April 20th, 2008 at 9:25 pm
Great episode. Although I kept remembering the words of the hybrid” they will not harm their own…”. Hmmmm… I assumed she was talking about the Cylons- now…not so much.
Quite the little surprise from old Brother Cavil.
April 20th, 2008 at 9:36 pm
I’m really having trouble with the Cylon on Cylon violence.
And it appears that Brother Cavil is the “Ultimate CYLON Pimp”, go Brother….
April 20th, 2008 at 9:54 pm
Wow, guys… we are LOVING the theories and conversation going on here! Almost 50 comments and the weekend’s not even out!! We’ll be shooting the BSGcast Monday night, and hopefully have it up for Tuesday… we have some theories of our own about where Starbuck will be going and the fate of Natalie’s Baseship. Has anyone noticed that the first clip of Starbuck is her on a Baseship: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvgKeQ-kGWo&feature=related
Interesting… you should check out all the Promos for the different characters… there’s a Roslin, Chief, Six, Lee… and of course Baltar
Keep it up guys, you make us LOVE this show even more!
~Matt + Nat
PS. Cavil is the Ultimate Cylon Pimp… awesome… although, Tori can deal out the ultimate Cylon Pimp-SLAP for sure!!
April 20th, 2008 at 10:33 pm
Osmium said, “The error made ties in with the Homunculus logical fallacy in the theory of mind; in order to go against her programming she would have to use reasoning skills that would come from her programming.”
Holy mind Frak! What that says is if Tori acted of free will then the homunculus (”little person”) in Tori’s mind would keep her second guessing herself and she would have done nothing because intelligent acts can’t be resulted from an “inner being” without causing a stalemate of how to react in any situation. Therefore her actions are solely resultant of her programming to protect her own kind (Nicky Tyrol). Whew! My prof would be so proud…
April 21st, 2008 at 12:08 pm
After it ended (with a gut punch feeling for me), this whole episode was about the last scene. No one has commented on this.
Was Adama telling Chief that Cally was found dead? How did Adama find this out?? Did they find her body in space? Is Adama now searching for a murderer or considering it a suicide? How was it a suicide if the airlock was blasted from the observation room where Tory and Nicky were?
OR
Was Chief explaining to Adama that Cally and he had had a fight earlier, and that perhaps explains her ’suicide’?
OR
Was Chief admitting to Adama that he and others are cylons and pointing to Tory as Cally’s killer? That Cally had found out and that Tory had killed her to save the kid or hide Cally’s knowledge of their cylon identities or both?
(By the way, I agree that Tory could have been acting from programming in a screwed-up way…to protect the kid in future and protect their identities.)
ANYONE? What were Adama and Chief saying to each other?
Tootie
April 21st, 2008 at 12:28 pm
OK Matt and Nat,
Here is my attempt at a winning forum comment:
BSG TOP TEN LINES:
“It’s good to be wrong.” Kara to Lee, after finding out he wasn’t killed when Colonial One was ‘nuked’
“You’re not my type.” Gina to Cain right before shooting her
“It’s what you said at the decommissioning ceremony…Maybe you don’t deserve to live.” Sharon to Adama, after he asked why cylons hate humans.
“Kara Thrace and her special destiny…sounds like a bad cover band Sam.” Kara to Sam
“You got the house.” Lee to Dualla at his good-bye to fleet service
“Someday we can go back to the luxury of just being human beings.” Admiral Cain to Kendra Shaw
“You can’t play God and then wash your hands of the things you’ve done.” Adama to those assembled at Galactica de-commissioning
“No. Paper shortage.” Tighe to Adama after he asks if the hungry fleet is still eating paper
“I’m. Getting. My. Men.” Adama to Cain after Cain sentences Chief and Helo to death
“All this has happened before, and it will happen again.” The old hybrid
Tootie
April 21st, 2008 at 2:34 pm
I been thinking about who the final Cylon might be for a while now. Since these final five are different from the significant seven, they might not need a resurrection ship where to “resurrect”, they just may resurrect “naturally” into another body. Keeping in mind that Caprica Six feels she must protect Hera with her life, maybe Hera is the final Cylon! The question is: who died around the time when Sharon was still carrying hera? Well, I’m guessing Razor was not a total waste of our time. What about Kendra Shaw? She looks a bit Asian and a bit Caucasian (like Helo and Sharon)! What if: “And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering.” is nothing more than birth (or rebirth is this case). Don’t forget, she has done some terrible things, and she might be hungering for redemption! They howl of terrible suffering, well, and don’t remember being born, but I guess I must have howled quite a lot. It’s just a theory anyway!
April 21st, 2008 at 3:08 pm
I only have one thing to say….
Frack the next week previews.
Seeing the promo last week for this episode ruined the tension in the final scene. I pretty much knew Cally was going to buy the farm. Honestly, being the last season, that was the easiest way to deal with the Tyrol/Cally marriage. The thing that pissed me off was that I already saw Tori holding baby Nikki last week. So I knew the baby was going to be fine. Still if I didn’t see the preview I wouldn’t have put it past this show to take that kind of step. Come on, at least show Tori holding the baby at some other point in the show. I was already faked out once in the 1st episode with the Tigh shooting Adma scene. I want more of that. I’ve decided I will no longer watch the previews this season.
On another note, Is anyone else really starting to hate Roslin? I feel like the show is pulling the same move The Sopranos did in the last season where they tried to make you hate Tony. Hrm, I wondering if they are setting her up for redemption…
One moment I did like in the show was when Lee was defending Roslin and She’s like ” I don’t need your help peon.” Then Lee is like “Ok let me hurt you then.” Way to stick it the pres. Lee. Keep it up.
April 21st, 2008 at 3:33 pm
Uh why is there a window in the launch tube? I mean what’s the reason for that? Cally needs to ponder space (and see Orion?) from inside the tube, window happens to be there. No windows in the CIC where they steer, but the pilot in the tube can catch a peek out the window prior to launch.
April 21st, 2008 at 3:48 pm
Tootie,
That’s a good question…I was so caught up in the shock of Cally being blasted into space that I forgot it ended with Adama & Tyrol talking. And to boot, Tyrol didn’t seem to terribly despondent over losing Cally ( if that’s what they were discussing). My question is this…they’ve already established that there are cameras on Battlestars. Surely something as dangerous as air locks are monitored, yes? Is there going to be proof that Tori did it? Will she get away with it because she was saving a baby that was doomed by his “crazy” mother? This will be interesting in the next episode.
April 21st, 2008 at 4:37 pm
Tory’s apparently superhuman strength when she bitch slaps Cally halfway across the launch tube seems to mean that the final five have cylon strength. I guess you have to realize your a cylon before you get their abilities?
April 21st, 2008 at 4:53 pm
Once again, I’m astounded at the theories presented here. They are AMAZING. Evertime I read a new theory from you folks, it enhances my own experiences and changes my own theories a bit.
Anyways, Bacchus Magnus you truly win the “best theory” of those presented so far in my book. WoW, I never ever considered Kendra, and your theory makes me look at the Kendra-Hybrid dialogue and the Hybrid Prophecy in a WHOLE other light! You are so right, Kendra truly could be the final Cylon! Or hera as a re-incarnation of Kendra.
I mean, my whole argument as far as Baltar being the Final Cylon has always been all the evidence that supported this, but then, it’s not really 100%. I mean, take for example the arm that Three holds in her vision in the Temple of the Five. It’s the arm of a Final Five that Three says “Forgive me, I had no idea”. Now to me that sounds like a personal apology, and who has Three ever harmed? Well Baltar of course. So this goes in favor of Baltar as being the Final Cylon.
However, the Hybrid Prophecy that states something like “the fifth still in shadow, clawing towards the light, hungering for redemption” well in my mind the only person who truly suffered in BSG and who truly sinned and would want redemption was Baltar. I mean with the genocide of the human race and hanging out with the Cylons so much, betraying them too, always being selfish. This guy was tortured by both Cylons and Humans, suffered terribly, and does seem to seek redemption, especially from Ep 403.
Ok, well until you mentioned Kendra and her own suffering and wish for redemption, I never seriously considered anyone besides Baltar being the Final Cylon, and now for the first time in my book he has a true competitor. Kendra might not have suffered physically like Baltar, but she certainly suffered mentally just as much. She had to resort to drugs to forget the sins she committed in the past. And yes, she did not have the genocide of the human race on her conscience, however she did kill an innocent civialian family and helped abbando an entire fleet of humans who probalby ended up dying. So she’s up there as far as sin. And she clearly sought redemption when the Hybrid asked her. So she does fit a lot of the hybrid prophecy.
Now…”still in shadow, clawing towards the light”…I’m not sure how this would apply to Kendra besides an analogy to her being dead and coming back alive somehow.
Now the key thing I really like about Kendra possibly being the Final Cylon, is that the Hybrid referred to her as “my child” ….the hybrid is clearly a Cylon…2 + 2 = 4 no?
Bacchus, again great theory! Thanx for sharing
April 21st, 2008 at 6:45 pm
Clawing toward the light.. being trapped in the mother’s womb and clawing towards the light, e.i. the birth canal! Somehow, I’m hoping I’m wrong and the reveal of the final Cylon will blow me away. But something tells me it wont be as GRAND as I’m “praying” it will. Nevertheless, it’s been a great journey so far, and will be in the months to come.
April 21st, 2008 at 7:15 pm
Yeah, I am pretty sure the final four are reborn when they die. It could be something like all humans have the necessary genetic code to become one of them and it’s just a matter of probability who becomes the next “Tigh” or the next “Anders”. Alternatively their “souls” could “download” into a suitable candidate, or it’s just plain old rebirth. At this point I think it’s pretty obvious that they are the “five priests” or Lords of Kobol or whatever, and they date back thousands of years to Kobol or even earlier. I don’t think there’s anything machine about them and doubt they have any programming – rather a sort of subconscious mission or knowledge of what they have to do.
As for the final cylon, I’d like to thing it’s not an actual person or thing, but something really abstract. Some mind-frak thing that will make the rest of the story totally crazy. Maybe the final cylon is the intangible essence of the universe. Or that “creative aether” that certain potent ideas are stored in and conveyed from. (Like “the music”.) If it has to be a person I’d go with Roslin right now. I generally don’t like the theories that say it’s something ~shocking~ like Adama or Laura, but so far she seems to be the one who fits in most with the general disposition of the other 4. They are all protective of humanity, but she is totally hardcore about it. I mean, she would do absolutely anything to ensure the success of their mission to find Earth and save everyone. Plus, she’s been acting really strange for a while now. Getting colder, less vibrant, etc. There’s definitely something weird about her.
Although when it comes down to it, I don’t think the terms “cylon” or “human” mean much. Obviously this all stems from things that happened thousands (or more) years ago and it’s probably not wise to make distinctions based on things that happened in the last 40 or so years. Like Gaius said, “God is at the beginning of the stream, isn’t he?”
PS: I’m not gunning for the contest win, I have all the gear I need so someone else would be able to use it much better than I could.
April 22nd, 2008 at 6:37 am
I’ve never read the comments before nor I remeber you talking about it during your broadcast and I also do not read forums about the series, so what I’ll say might have already been discussed before.
While watching the episode 3 of season 4, when Chief was at the bar with Tory, she lloked very much like Hera (Zeus wife from the greek pantheon). Then I though, 12 Cylons, 12 colonies, 12 olympians!
Zeus, Hera, Poseidon, Hades, Ares, Hermes, Hephaestus, Aphrodite, Athena, Apollo, Artemis and Hestia – Greek names
Jupiter, Juno, Neptune, Pluto, Mars, Mercury, Vulcan, Venus, Minerva, Apollo, Diana and Vesta – Roman names
Aren’t they The gods?
Tigh – Ares (god of war)
Chief – Posseidon. He does not really fit like Posseidon to me but I can see no other
Tory – Hera (jealous and vengeful nature) The killing of Cally
Anders – Apollo or Hermes
Number 6 – Artemis (mostly known as Diana, goddess of huntress)
Leoben (2) – Apollo or Hermes
Sharon/Boomer (8) – Athena (Goddess of heroic endeavour). Her nickname, she got into the Cylon ship by herself etc…
D’Anna (3) – Aphrodite or Artemis/Diana. Even though her name is Diana, I do not see her as the hunter like 6 (fighting Starbuck)
Aaron (5) – Posseidon
Simon (4) – Hephaestus (technology, blacksmiths, craftsmen, artisans, sculptors, metals and metallurgy, and fire)
Brother Cavil (1) – Hades (King of Death, lord of the underworld) has Cerberus (three-headed dog, guardian of the entrance of the underworld) as a “pet”
The Final One – Zeus?
I might be completely mistaken and they might represent some other gods, since the greeks/romans had a very large pantheon.
I hope it is the first time that this has been discussed and that will bring some new aspects to be discussed.
If not, well, at least I tried
Kind regards,
Mauro Lima
April 22nd, 2008 at 8:21 am
OK, DID ANYBODY HEAR ANDERS, AND THE WHOLE CREW OF KARA’S SHIP TALKING ABOUT THE “TRINARY STAR FORMATION” IN REGARDS TO THEM FINDING THE WAY TO EARTH. COULDN’T THAT BE SIMILAR TO ORIONS BELT, WHICH CLEARLY SHOWS UP AT LEAST 2 TIMES IN THE EPISODE. JUST A THOUGHT.
April 22nd, 2008 at 9:13 am
This is a little off topic but since a lot of us have mentioned seeing Orion, etc. Has anyone ever seen a graphic that might show the Caprican universe’s location in the Milky Way as relative to our solar system?
Addditionally, thinking about the origin of the 12…I’ve made mention of this before with no input so I’ll throw it out there again. As we talk about who, what , where, when , why and how of the 12’s origin. Here’s a post from a different week…
“in Razor when young Adama is on the hybrid ship and attempts to rescue the prisoners by forcing open the door, did anyone else notice or think that the quick glimpses we got of those prisoners were Leoben and Six? That would be something interesting to look into and elaborate on.”
As a point of discussion pointing to when the skin jobs were created that could be pivotal, perhaps that was the original experiment ship (later transforming into a rez ship) that harbored the original genetic models for the skins.
April 22nd, 2008 at 10:01 am
Concerning James D’s comment to mine about Kare Thrace being the final cylon.
Ron Moore already ruled out Kara being the final cylon…
April 22nd, 2008 at 10:15 am
OK well I made my comment in my-space and d face book but guess I can do it here too. I think this episode really rocked. I am so looking forward to seeing more on the Cylon Civil war. It is interesting that the 6 that is in the brig and Sharon may be the last of there line and what will the toasters and raiders do with this internal war?
Another point to bring up is that we have 1 of the final 5 with Starbuck and 3 with the fleet. Unless they are destroyed once the Cylon civil war is over they will be found and Earth will be endangered. Now on the topic of Earth, the known Cylon model numbers are 1-6 and 8. We have 4 of the final 5 in the fleet, as well as a 6 and Sharon. (Sorry I forgot her model number.) I’m thinking model 7 is in the fleet as well as 9-11 and 12 will be someone on Earth.
Now on to Cally, I’m glad she is dead. A fitting end for her. I’ve been disliking her for a while. Before we knew Chief was a Cylon she was responsible for twisting the Chief to doing things that were very unlike him and getting him in trouble. She has been turning into a world class bitch. I cheered when her character was killed.
April 22nd, 2008 at 3:41 pm
READ THIS YOU WILL BE CONVINCED AFTER YOU READ IT
I strongly believe that Admiral Adam is the Final cylon. If you look closely at the “last supper” photo on the BSG sc-fi site everyone who is pointing is pointing to a Cylon. Tyrol is pointing with his knife to head six and sam. Natalie is pointing to head six. Lee’s thumb is sort of pointing to head six. Sharon’s finger is pointing to adama and so it the pencil/stick the pres is holding. Also the picture is missing at least one person because there are only 12 people in the photo and there are supposed to be 13 (12 disciples and Jesus). The open space between Lee and Tigh is obviously for the final cylon. Also everyone is paired off in this picture accept lee and tigh. sam and kara, Helo and Sharon, baltar and head six, natalie and head six, adam and the pres(they are both on the outer ends of the table). Tyrol is kind of associated/ grouped with sam, his fellow new cylon. Lee and tigh need to be paired and obviously with the sam person because there room left for only one body. The person the both most relate to is adama.
As for the hybrid prophecy about the fifth cylon it could be anyone. All of trhe people have suffered and everyone does things they regret.
I think that Baltar is abraham and roslyn is moses. Abraham was the first person to believe in the one true god(according to the bible) he told others to do the same and almost no one did. He led the people who did believe him to another land that eas NOT the promise land. The next episode is supposed to be baltar telling people to believe in the cylon god. Moses led the people to the promise land but died before they got there. Moses never set foot on the land. Rosyln is supposed to die before leading her people to earth. When the showed up at the nebula Roslyn almost fainted. I think the moses part of her felt kara’s presence and knew that following kara will be bad .. so she got a little sick..
April 22nd, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Ellioto Roberto wrote:
“…did you notice how they are playin the story arc with starbuck and her ship and crew. did you ever see the bounty with anthony hopkins and mel gibson it feels very simular. it even sounds like a tall ship with the sounds in the back ground.”
Ya, I’d considered that too. There’s definitely that vibe of a sailing ship on the verge of mutiny, with the captain acting harsh and erratically. I still like Moby Dick over Mutiny on the Bounty in this case because of Kara’s obsessive quest for the trinary, the way the vipers are lashed to the hull like longboats, and the multiple course corrections based on Kara’s gut feelings. Still, if it’s “Mutiny” then would it be Helo or Gaeta as Spencer Christian? I’m thinking Gaeta.
I’ve had the notion of a cycle that starts and ends with Earth since the 1st season. I think it was some of the stuff from the Book of Pythia, along with Leoben’s first encounter with Kara, that made me think of it as a recurring cycle that starts and ends with Earth. Plus I reread the Wheel of Time series (excellent set of novels if you have a few spare months of free time) every few years, so it’s natural I’d consider that. I don’t remember which fansite that was.
Adam, I don’t recall having seen a graphic, but I remember a discussion on some random fansite that was trying to correlate BSG nebulae with possible Milky Way nebulae, and trying to extrapolate distances from know data for existing nebulae in our neighborhood of the galaxy. As for proof that Tori was responsible for spacing Cally, I don’t think there are security monitors on Galactica like there were on Pegasus (I could be wrong), so someone would have to find the Chief’s key on Tori or in her stuff. More than likely, they’d just assume that it was sucked out the airlock along with Cally, and thus is too small a needle in too big a haystack to detect and recover.
One thing that bugged me about the scene in the launch tube is the fact that there’s a window there at all. It doesn’t make sense to me spatially with respect to the location of the hangar deck within the flight pod. It would presume that the launch tube was the very furthest aft in the port flight pod, and that the hangar deck and launch tubes extend aft as far as the very aft of the flight pod (if you take my meaning). When it’s showing her walk into the tube, it looks more like there are other tubes to either side of hers based on the positioning of the vipers, and it also looks as if the hangar deck extends even further aft, so the view from the window should actually be into the next launch tube. And I just realized I’m sounding like the comic-book-guy from the Simpsons, so I’ll be shutting up now
April 22nd, 2008 at 4:29 pm
*Fletcher* Christian, that would be. And yeah, I can totally see Gaeta in that role. But I too am getting more of a Captain Ahab feel here – Starbuck is search of the great white whale ( is she gonna need a bigger boat?) that is Earth. And of course, Starbuck is a name from Moby Dick.
Ok, now I have a question for y’all about the previews for next week. Is Tyrol saying ” I killed that shriek?” And what does that *mean*? And why is there a shot of Cally looking quite unfrozen and healthy at the start of the preview? I am so confused.
But then, I usually am. Confused.
FOP, whose dog is eating the furniture even as I type.
April 22nd, 2008 at 4:33 pm
From Wikipedia on Frank Starbuck , a character from Moby Dick:
Frank Starbuck, the young first mate of the Pequod, is a thoughtful and intellectual Quaker from Nantucket.
Uncommonly conscientious for a seaman, and endued with a deep natural reverence, the wild watery loneliness of his life did therefore strongly incline him to superstition; but to that sort of superstition, which in some organization seems rather to spring, somehow, from intelligence than from ignorance… [H]is far-away domestic memories of his young Cape wife and child, tend[ed] to bend him … from the original ruggedness of his nature, and open him still further to those latent influences which, in some honest-hearted men, restrain the gush of dare-devil daring, so often evinced by others in the more perilous vicissitudes of the fishery. “I will have no man in my boat,” said Starbuck, “who is not afraid of a whale.” By this, he seemed to mean, not only that the most reliable and useful courage was that which arises from the fair estimation of the encountered peril, but that an utterly fearless man is a far more dangerous comrade than a coward.
— Moby-Dick, Ch. 26
Starbuck is alone among the crew in objecting to Ahab’s quest, declaring it madness to want revenge on an animal, which lacks reason. Starbuck advocates continuing the more mundane pursuit of whales for their oil. But he lacks the support of the crew in his opposition to Ahab, and is unable to persuade them to turn back. Despite his misgivings, he feels himself bound by his obligations to obey the captain.
Starbuck was an important Quaker family name on Nantucket Island, and there were several actual whalers of this period named “Starbuck,” as evidenced by the name of Starbuck Island in the southern Pacific whaling grounds.
April 22nd, 2008 at 5:21 pm
don’t get excited, its in the frakin ship. there’s so much confusion here why isnt bsg cast on yet? matt, nat were are you?
April 22nd, 2008 at 5:38 pm
Hahaha… nice to see the riotous demand for this week’s episode, Roberto!! Actually, It’s rendering right now… so another 2-3 hours and BSGcast 405 will be rocking your iTunes, and another half hour after that, it should be up here too!
Hopefully you’ll all agree on our pick for Fan of the Week for the posts on last week’s episode
~Matt
April 22nd, 2008 at 9:12 pm
Where’s (twitch)…my (twitch)…BSGCast (twitch, twitch and twitch) ….must have current (twitch) episode please….(twitch) Someone call Cottle, I’m in withdrawal…(TWITCH!)
April 22nd, 2008 at 9:26 pm
Ok, I was just getting bored babysitting this upload of BSGcast 405, when it came to me… the Trinary star system that Starbuck and Gaeta are looking for? I bet it’s not a Trinary Star System at all… It’s probably the three smouldering, burning Basestars after the ambush that Cavil sprung on Natalie and her renegade 6’s and 8’s!
I’d put money on that one.
~Matt
April 22nd, 2008 at 10:03 pm
Cavil and freinds are probably sitting around those same “smouldering” (I love that word…) basestars toasting marshmallows and they’re all singing “Kumbahya my lords….”
April 22nd, 2008 at 10:07 pm
…or maybe their toasting “phallic inhibitors.”
April 22nd, 2008 at 10:19 pm
Oooh Matt your good. Wow. You could be right. In the sci fi You tube clips there’s the one with the president on the basestar looking like she’s looking at the hybrid. There was the other clip of Starbuck on the basestar. And another clip of Natalie talking to the president about the final 5 in the fleet. Unless these clips are too totally mislead us I think that the demetrius and Galactica will both come upon the damaged basestars with the 6’s, 8’s and 2’s. Ooorrr the trinary star system IS orions belt and “conicidentally” The 3 cylon basestars are stranded there, when Galactica and the demetrius show up. The president following the scrolls, Starbuck following her feeling. Perhaps Starbuck will lead the way once they’ve all arrived.
At first the old hybrid is talking about the cylons, the 4, the 5th and the 7. Then he talks about how they will join (I’m assuming he means join the human race in going to Earth). Perhaps only 4 models will go with them. The 6’s, 8’s 2’s and 3’s. “And then they will join in the promised land, gathered on the wings of and angel. Not an end but a begininng.”
April 22nd, 2008 at 11:53 pm
Thanx so much guys. I’m really enjoying these discussions, and hats off to everyone else who had some amazing theories as well
Oh, and I’m planning on getting my next PC from Alienware so it’s cool to get their T-shirt
Thanx again.
Lets keep it up
So say we all!
~Adalla
April 23rd, 2008 at 12:03 am
Random late-night thought:
The Ties That Bind? The Tigh That’s Blind? Coincidence?!? Absolutely
April 23rd, 2008 at 12:25 am
Mauro Lima
I never thought of giving each of the Cylons one of the gods of the Greek Panethon. But since you did it, here is what I think:
Zeus King of the Gods, overthrower of his Father Chronos, just like the cyclons overthrew humanity?? Put Cavil here please Mr. #1
Hera Wife and sister to Zeus, Goddess of women and marriage. Missing in action. If I say President Laura Roslin will I be hurt?
Ares The god of war, bloodthirsty, cold and calculating Doral anyone? Keeper of the execution listing, putting a gun to Baltar’s head.
Apollo The god of life, light and the teacher of medicine. I’m thinking Simon, Dr. Let’s take Starbuck’s eggs.
Aphrodite The goddess of love, desire and beauty. Hello Caprica Six
Artemis Goddess of the Hunt, and Wild Things, known as Dianna to the Romans, I’m thinking D’anna.
Hestia Godess of the hearth, home, and symbol of the house in which a new born child is carried. Hello Sharon Mother of the first hybrid.
Hephaetus The gods’ own blacksmith, this must be Chief Tyrol. He built the blackbird!
Posedien Second only to Zeus and a greedy god God of the sea, creator of horses. I think this is where Tigh should sit
Hermes God of theives, flight, commerce and the Messanger of the Gods, which Leoben keeps talling us all things.
Athena Goddess of Wisdom, Weaving and War helper of many a hero in myths. I’m putting Tori Ms. helping out on New Caprica, in the fleet, giver of advice and I can smack Cally across an airlock one handed.
Hades God of the underworld, and wealth, defender of the death whose wife leaves and returns based on the seasons, who rarely leaves his kingdom third in line after his brothers. Sorry Sam, but perhaps you defending a dead planet named Caprica put you here.
Whatta all think? I know my former Mythology teacher would be proud…
I hope.
April 23rd, 2008 at 12:57 am
I think that this is the best Sci Fi series the last 20 years, Hands Down. In relation to his episode, In a way, it was the right way to End Cally character on the show. i never truly liked her character but felt remorse at the end. Torry bitch slapped her in the end as soon as she took the bab. And I said to myself thats a freakin awesome way to end the episode. It came out of no whwere. And I beleive Torry is good and bad. If you think about it, It’s like a New Born Child. They are born good or bad. So they are forming their morals as they are growing up and of course will represent different opinions of the spectrum. So in turn, the four of the final Five are learning how to comprehend their Rebirth with an alternative enlightment. Next Week, we might get to see more of Saul Tigh inside over his new found Cylonship if you will. And whats the deal with the six beating the crap out of him as shown in the preview? DOES HE LIKE IT ROUGH AND BE MAN HANDLED?? (Possible)
I have alaso heard some astounding theories in my readings on the forums and one that are fusing with my own. it is possible that they are Cylons but not in machine and bolts kind of way. Like someone else said, the children of Human-Cylon. Considering that they left Earth thousands of years ago, It is possible they forgot along the way r were ignorant to it or became Hybrids on thejourney to Earth. With more and more episodes, we will soon find our answer to the greatest mystery on TV today and I’m not talking about LOST.
April 23rd, 2008 at 3:24 am
You guys have some interesting theories. After reading about cycles and the final five being human-cylon children, a thought popped into my head. What if the endgame is somehow tied into the original series? Maybe the final five are descendants of the original series after reaching earth. The mantra of the show has always been “All of this has happened before and all of this will happen again.” Maybe the final Cylon is in fact Starbuck. Not Kara, but Dirk Benedict’s Starbuck. Moore at one point said he wanted Dirk to be god. The Original connection makes Zarek a final five candidate that fits into the hybrid prophecy as well. Zarek has had plenty of suffering and is in need of redemption. I know it sounds crazy, but it’s something no one would see coming.
April 23rd, 2008 at 10:02 am
Did anyone else catch this?:
“All that we are, all that we think we are; all that we are certain about is taken away from us.”
I think the “harbenger of death” hypothesis Matt put out was spot-on.
I dunno why everyone hates Cally. She really doesn’t bother me like some of the other non-regulars do. I was very sad for her death, and the whole weapons locker scene was pretty tense IMO. Fantastic season.
April 23rd, 2008 at 10:15 am
By the way, the hiatus for this season driving me nutz, I made a fake trailer for this show, whichc an be found here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgCwuWaVXdA
In case you want to convince friends and family to watch, hopefully this will do the trick.
April 23rd, 2008 at 12:01 pm
Brian! That’s a BEAUTIFUL trailer…. I think it could even get my Sci-Fi hating brother to watch this show
~Matt
April 23rd, 2008 at 12:43 pm
Thank you! Make sure you tell him that all of the music featured was from BSG, too. The music of this show has impressed me more than nearly every other aspect of the show.
April 23rd, 2008 at 1:23 pm
Well When it come to the superhuman bitch slap it is not the first time it has been shown, Let’s not for get the 6 Starbuck Throw down on Caprica.
Also We humans use only 3% Of our muscles strength, Witch is why you hear storys about moms pulling cars off their kids.
We can tap in to it in extream situations so maybe the Skin job’s can turn the other 97% on when whenever they need to.
also this brings up some thing near the end of season 3.
When Six Hit Tigh in the Cell Not only did he not fly like starbuck but he hit 6 back and flung her pretty good.
at that moment 6 Knew tigh was one of the five I think.
Also, if Starbuck is a Cylon how did she get the beat down from 6 on caprica?
Also if you notice that everytime 6 Blocked Starbuck it was like a brick wall.
It looked like the blocks hurt as much as the punches did.
so I don’t think Starbuck(HOTT!) is a Cylon or at least wasnt then.
And One Question I wonder about, Is the Final Cylon with The Fleet Or With starbuck trying to find Earth?
I vote AGATHON For Final Cylon if the Final is on Starbucks Ship.
Otherwise, HotDog?!?
No clue.
also I don’t Understand Why Tigh doesnt just Tell The old Man He’s one of the final five.
I think He’d be able to understand and not Air lock Tigh.
April 23rd, 2008 at 3:42 pm
BRIAN, THAT TRAILER WAS PERFECT, SCIFI SHOULD BE RUNNING THAT ONE ON THE AIR, THEY’D GET MORE PEOPLE WATCHING.
April 23rd, 2008 at 4:14 pm
Ok. I just have a quick question. And it’s one that I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone ask:
How long before the destruction of the colonies did the skin-jobs come online? Did the 7 models think so much alike because they were so new? Was wiping out humanity a rash decision born of newly created human models? I haven’t seen the mini in a long time, but I think Baltar was fakking Caprica 6 for 2 years or so? Was this the first thing the new Cylons decided to do? After all, as pure machines the Cylons may not have known anger or revenge. They may have had a basic idea that they should not be treated as slaves, but when they succeeded in making a sufficiently human model, did these new feelings awake in them? Is that why after 40 years the Cylons decided to attack the Colonies? And is this why we’re just now seeing splinters in the Cylon ranks? It’s like any new relationship. You do everything together and never fight. Now that they have gotten the hang of living as actual people and living as a collective, they are doing what any human would do… bicker. Hardcore bickering.
I’m going to be totally embarrassed if I’m way off base since I don’t usually share my thoughts or theories. But this one just occurred to be while reading some comments about the Cylon insurrection. Adalla’s comment in particular. Remember what happened to the Borg when Hugh was released back into the collective? The same sort of thing seems to have happened when Boomer and Caprica 6 were reintegrated.
April 23rd, 2008 at 11:23 pm
Good point O.B.E. Six was on Caprica working with Baltar at least two years, and was probably there a bit longer to get on with the contractor agency she was hired from. Also, Boomer was there long enough to have attended a military academy and flight school. In the mini she was already a Lt.J.G., so she was with the colonial forces long enough to have been promoted from Ensign. And how long was Gina in the colonies to get hired to refit computer systems on battlestars? I’d guess they had at least three years of lead-time, maybe even five or more. As for the original toasters, I tend to think that they learned anger and revenge early on, and probably weren’t much different emotionally than the new ones that had their cephalic inhibitors removed (just my opinion).
It’ll be interesting to see when/how the final five arrived in the colonies. Were they born of colonial citizens, or were they made. And if they were made, did they arrive together (younger Tigh arrives with an armload of baby toasters in time to meet Adama on the transport and swap fake war stories), or did they trickle-in over a few years (and Tigh actually served on the Galactica during the 1st war when he was 18 like he believes). It would be interesting if Tigh arrived with the cylon boarding party that vented all the air in Galactica from the Fire Supression Stations, and just made like he was one of the lucky guys to have found an airtight locker or vacc-suit.
April 24th, 2008 at 2:11 am
Hey Sorshadeanin and Mauro Lima,
I completely agree with you guys about each Cylon represents an Olympian god, i thought about it a and posted it couple of months ago
in response to the hybrids prophesy, so I’ll repost it (though I reworked it with what we now know, as well as to make it more readable), feel free to let me know what you think (even if you hate it!)
Hey guys
Great analysis, it really sparks the imagination regarding all the possibilities this prophesy may imply.
It also brings to mind a bunch of stuff about BSG that I’ve been contemplating for awhile.
Now the “Baltar as the 12th Cylon” idea certainly has merit. That said Baltar wasn’t really redeemed through his suffering. Its not like Adama or Roslin like him any more than they did before, and although it deeply affected him, and we have yet to see if he has become any better of a person because of it, though he may have been redeemed in the eyes of certain colonials (this is at least true of the unidentified women seen at the end of Crossroads).
This also brings to mind some ideas I’ve had about the Cylons in general that have had for awhile. I agree with Matt that there is some kind of connection between the Cylons and the twelve gods of the Colonials. Here’s what I was thinking (feel free to shout me down):
Each Cylon represents an Olympian deity (though this isn’t exactly perfect, there are seven male Cylons, and only six male Olympians.
and furthermore I think the 12th Cylon represents Zeus, which, if still unidentified would be an eighth male cylon (though either Doral or Cavil may represent him).
So anyway…Here’s how I think it all breaks down (though this is far from perfect and could change as we learn more about each individual Cylon).
Zeus – Unknown (Doral is a possibility, but then again so could Cavil (the 1’s), as well as Baltar, should he be the final Cylon)
Zeus was the ruler of heaven, and king of the gods, he was also known for chasing women (which throws Baltar into the mix) Doral was the hardest to place, even though we saw him early, we really haven’t seen a lot of him. I’m not sure where he fits in the Cylon political world. Cavil could be a possibility simply because of he has shown himself to be a leader.
Poseidon/Neptune – Saul Tigh
I made this judgement based on his instability. Poseidon was god of the sea, but he was also the god of earthquakes, which makes perfect sense. Most ancient cultures cast a wary eye to the see, and in most Ancient Near East literature (the Bible included) the sea almost always represents that which is unstable and untamable.
Hermes/Mercury – Leoben (the 2’s)
Based on his cunning Hermes was the messenger of the gods, but he was also the god cunning, thieving and lying (which we’ve seen Leoben do on several occasions)
Hera – D’Anna (the 3’s)
Hera was the Goddess of marriage, which doesn’t particularly apply to the Cylons. However, Hera is often seen and an antagonist to Zeus (because of Zeus’ sleeping around, and in the Illiad Hera is usually portrayed as the leader of those who were more or less dissenting against Zeus rule. (The Three’s always showed a certain degree of leadership, though they eventually got boxed for their dissent)
Hades (though possibly Ares) – Cavil (the 1’s)
Hades wasn’t strictly a Olympian god, his realm was the Underworld, where the dead go to reside (which is why I thought Ares, as the god of war and bloodlust, might fit better). I read somewhere that Dean Stockwell saw the Cavils as being kind of the Heinrich Himmler of the Cylons. The Cavil’s seem to be the more bloodthirsty of the Cylons, during the occupation they were the most willing to use brutal methods in order to bring the humans to heel. That said, now that we know he’s a one, he may be Zeus after all?
Athena – Sharon (the 8’s)
Athena was the goddess of wisdom (humans have relied on Sharon Agathon’s wisdom several times, she seems to be a bit more philosophical than most of the rest, with the exception of Leoben). Athena was also a goddess of war, though she represented the strategic side of war whereas Ares represented the brutality of it. And besides its Sharon Agathon’s callsign
Aphrodite – The 6’s
Probably the easiest to decide, Aphrodite is the goddess of love, desire and beauty, which the Sixes seem to have little trouble using to their advantage.
Apollo – Simon
Apollo was the god of the sun, but he was also the god of healing, and I based my decision on how we first see Simon, as a Doctor “taking care” of Kara Thrace
Artemis – Unknown
Goddess of the hunt. If Starbuck is a Cylon, then she most certainly would fit in this slot. Anders could also be a male version of Artemis.
Hephaestus/Vulcan – Galen Tyrol
Hephaestus was the blacksmith of the gods, also he was the god of craftsmen and artisans. Given Tyrol’s blue collar roots, he most likely represents him.
Hestia – Unknown (possibly Tory Foster)
Hestia was the goddess of the hearth and home, so given Tory’s behind the scenes work for Roslin she could be a good fit here.
Demeter unknown Demeter was the god of agriculture, which doesn’t really have a place in space *shrug*
Yeah I know this was a big digression, but maybe it’ll help us narrow down who the final Cylon might be.
Personally, after I’ve reread this, I think the great sin the Hybrid is referring to is the Cylon Civil War. The Cylons place a great deal of emphasis on unity, its how they make political decision, as well as how they run their ships, so the dissent represented in the 2’s, 6’s and 8’s has to have been troubling for them.
Finally regarding the prophesy regard Starbuck, I agree she’s probably the angel talked about by the Hybrid. Now remember the word angel comes from the Greek (angelos) which means either messenger or envoy, so she doesn’t need to be a “Touched by an Angel” type, to be messenger to deliver the message.
As has been mentioned before apocalypse does literally mean revelation or disclosure of the end (of the odyssey?) of humanity. Just because she’s and “angel” doesn’t nessecarily mean her direction is good (For example, most of the angels talked about in Revelation, those who blow the seven trumpets and those who spill the seven bowls of wrath, don’t exactly dispense with “good” things ) hence the prophesy about her being the “harbinger of death” its possible that the way she takes them to earth could lead to the death of a lot of the remaining colonials.
Well those were just some of my thoughts. Feel free to let me know what you think!
April 24th, 2008 at 6:17 am
I guess I meant to say that my little theory thing only applied to the 7 as a group. The final 5 have a different story and we hardly have enough evidence to speculate on. All I’m saying is that the 7 might be no more than…. what? 5 or 6 years old for all we know. When the phallic (thanks Mat!) inhibitors were removed from the Centurions and they heard about the lobotomizing of the raiders, they came back and killed those that were responsible. Isn’t it plausible that when the 7 awoke, having more intense and erratic emotions than their predecessors and having heard of what was done to the original Cylon race, they decided to hold humanity accountable?
April 24th, 2008 at 11:25 am
Sure O.B.E., it is possible the 7 are that young, or maybe some of them are younger than others. One thing that argues against the 5 predating the 7 is the model numbering they give themselves. I don’t recall if we ever heard Simon’s number, but we know 1 (Cavil), 2 (Leoben), 3 (D’anna), 5 (Doral), and 6 (Caprica/Gina/Natalie), and also 8 (Boomer/Athena). Since Boomer is out of sequence (assuming Simon even is #4), this suggests that most of the 7 predate the final 5. Of course, this presumes they weren’t assigned numbers after the final 5 departed, with 8 being out of sequence to disguise from themselves that they weren’t the first models. Or maybe Boomer’s line are just the Rodney Dangerfields of the skinjobs… no respect
Perhaps the 7 (or the 7 minus Cavil) were created to replace the 5 that left. In fact, I could actually see there originally being only the first 6 (final 5 plus Cavil), with the final 5 deciding not to pursue war/revenge against the colonials, and Cavil deciding that it just wasn’t acceptable to let the humans off so easy. He could have had the centurians eliminate the other 5 models (a handful escaped to hide among the colonials) and then just started over with 6 new models that he could more easily manipulate. Of course, Cavil would do his best to keep this secret from everyone else: purge the records of exactly what happened (revise history); program the newbies not to think of the other 5 (prevent questions about what exactly happened); give them numbers out of sequence; install cephalic inhibitors in the centurians, etc. If this is the case, the rest of the 7 could indeed be just 5 or 6 years old.
April 24th, 2008 at 11:43 am
Brian – WHAT A TRAILER!
YOU ARE A GOD!
T
April 24th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
I second that motion
Amazing trailer! Best one I’ve seen so far.
~Adalla
April 24th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
In the Roslin Trailer there is a shot towards the end of Roslin kneeling and you can tell she’s on a Basestar because of the background and there are armed marines are walking in the background. I am guessing that the galatica comes across a Basestar and boards it. Its really obvious that shes on a Basestar.
April 24th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
I think what Adama is talking to Tyrol about (in the ending scene) is about Cally’s “suicide”. If you recall, earlier in the episode, Doc Cottle gets onto Cally because she was taking a combination of medicines that would have made her paranoid. Seeing that she knocked the Chief out, it’s possible that Tory, after spacing Cally, repressurized the launch tube and place the key Cally was using for the launch controls back into the box on the inside of the tube itself (it’s the same key we see Tory inserting and turning in the launch room through the window just moments before she spaces Cally). So, Tory took the key so she could arm the system from the room and open the doors, but after repressurizing, Tory reinserts the key into the controls inside the tube and leaves. And thanks to Doc Cottle’s knowledge about the medicine and their effects, as well as her attack on Tyrol at both Joe’s Bar and in their living quarters, it makes it look like that Cally became a woman who was not only paranoid, but paranoid enough to commit suicide. And by the way the commercial comes off to me, Tyrol is going to paint Cally into being a “monster” (for lack of a current and better word) in order to cover up the fact that she was killed to protect his secret, Tory and Tigh’s secret.
April 24th, 2008 at 9:53 pm
And another thing… Nat, Matt… Did you guys not notice that Starbuck painted the Ship of Lights on the ceiling above her bed? I would think that would have been discussed in the Vidcast too.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:16 pm
Yeah, VERY interesting, CB2001!! Actually, that was something that we came across after we had made the BSGcast… that and the trinary star system = 3 burning basestars idea both came to us after we shot. I hate it when that happens…
~Matt
April 24th, 2008 at 11:14 pm
Hey CB2001. I didn’t even notice that until you pointed it out. I re watched that scene and it eerily looks like those 3 base stars on fire. It doesn’t look like the Orion belt at all. ooo freaky! Man the writers of this show are geniuses. It’s so refreshing after watching shows like Smallville that have honed the art of insulting the intelligence of their audience.
April 24th, 2008 at 11:43 pm
I apologize if I came off at all rude in either posts, it was not my intention. The only thing I’m hoping is that my theory about the Ship of Light/Beings of Light (if they’re involved with this version of the show) doesn’t come true (if it does, then I’ll end up having to scrap it from my fan fiction series I’ve been working on for three years, or at least rework it in a way that it is different).
April 25th, 2008 at 6:46 am
Hahaha… ‘honed the art of insulting the intelligence of their audience’ WOW… I’ve never really liked Smallville, but I think you just touched on why it hasn’t taken off for me
No sweat, CB2001, you didn’t come across as rude at all. I hope for your sake you’re wrong, it would suck to have to rework three-years of writing!!
~Nat
April 25th, 2008 at 9:25 am
I don’t think Calley’s death can be ruled a suicide because you need keys to open the airlock. When adama found out she was dead he would have noticed that. If she had committed suicide the keys would have still been in the airlock when she died.
I wonder what Tyrel is going to do when Tory comes strolling back with a tiny set of keys a little niki in her arms….
April 25th, 2008 at 11:27 am
Smallville and shows like that are for the 8-15 age range. That’s obvious after watching about 10 seconds. Battlestar is for adults (yeehah!). Enuff said.
I hope that the loose ends are all fairly tied up this season…I am afraid that there isn’t enough time to do this. For example, I am afraid that they won’t address Cally’s death in enough detail, like the Admiral will just assume suicide without investigating. (Not that, Kirsty, I don’t believe Tory can’t COMPLETELY cover her tracks. No doubt she can.) I guess I’m saying I hope it won’t be all plot and little character development, but if Ron gives us some extended episodes and deleted scenes in the DVD, it might rectify the situation.
But sometimes you just gotta fill in the blanks and make the mental jumps!
Tootie
April 25th, 2008 at 11:34 am
Kirsty, I don’t think they’d automatically rule out suicide, or even really suspect murder as long as no one remembers seeing Cally heading toward the hangar bay with Nicky in hand. To their eyes the key could have easily been spaced along with Cally in their view, especially since it was on a neckchain. If she were holding onto the key or had the neckchain wrapped around her wrist when she would have allegedly hit the button, then it would have been yanked out along with her, and thus might have gone floating off into space. Considering her earlier public behavior and her admission to Cottle about abusing meds, it would take other evidence to imply a murder.
April 25th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
IF YOU REMEMBER CALLY PUT THE KEY SHE TOOK OUT OF TYREL’S COAT POCKET IN THE KEY HOLE ON THE INSIDE OF THE LAUNCH BAY. ALL TORY HAD TO DO WAS LEAVE IT THERE, THEN OPEN THE BAY DOOR FROM THE CONTROL ROOM. THEN IT WOULD LOOK LIKE SHE DID IT TO HERSELF FROM THE INSIDE.
April 25th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
roses are red violets are blue, matt is the smartest in the zoo. matt your theory of the three destoyed baseships being the trinary stars that starbuck is looking for is well “brilliant”. yes i said brilliant. i thought about this and it explains why starbuck is having problems finding her way. it explains why when cavils ships jump near orion you could only see parts of the natalie’s basestars. they wanted to hide the fact that they were in orbit around the gas giant with rings that starbuck is looking for. soooooooooooooooo smart. well i guess we’ll find out tonight eh old man.
P.S. matt are you the one true god? there’s so much confusion.
April 25th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
I think that adama will stay on the path they are following untill president roslin’s death, then he will turn 180 degee’s and find starbuck. adama is playing a clasic card game of 21. if dealt 2 aces, you always spit them up untill you bust or win on one. roslin’s path is and will be a bust. starbuck will be 21, a winner.
P.S. so say we all
April 25th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
Thanks, BSGCast. I’m hoping I’m wrong too. Of course, it’s not just 3 years of writing. It’s 3 years of conceptualizing a story series, and changing of a format from a typical text-based story series to a machinima comic book fan fiction series presented in a PDF format (with the use of video games such as “The Sims 2″ with several EPs, “The Movies”, and possibly several other games both commercial and freeware).
Majik- Tory used the key to activate the system from within the launch booth. There was no other way for Tory to activate the system without the key. By placing the key afterward, and after the tube’s been repressurized, it gives the same kind of impression. Tory herself could say that she tried to talk Cally out of killing herself, managed to get Nicky before the doors of the launch tube sealed.
April 25th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
CB2001 wrote:
“And another thing… Nat, Matt… Did you guys not notice that Starbuck painted the Ship of Lights on the ceiling above her bed? I would think that would have been discussed in the Vidcast too.
”
I’m not convinced that’s the Ship of Lights she painted. I’m more inclined to believe that it’s the comet she mentioned. If you look again at the painting, it looks more like a comet with ice plumes (the cross-like arms) that are part of its coma (faint halo around it), and with a tail trailing behind it.
I do agree that the three starbursts (2 below the comet, one briefly shown below Jupiter) resemble basestars as much as they resemble stars. It’ll be interesting to see how that plays out.
April 25th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
librlmeh- There’s actually a theory that someone has brought up over at the Sci-Fi BBoard that suggests that it might be the Beings of Light may be involved with whats going on, especially with Starbuck’s resurrection. In the original series, in the episode “War of the Gods”, Apollo was killed but was brought back to life by the Beings of Light. Not only that, they had the ability to wipe out memories. So, it’s possible that they were responsible for Starbuck’s return, why her ship looks like it “rolled off the production line” (yet doesn’t have any information about where Starbuck went or how she got to Earth and back). So, it’s possible that what she painted may be what the Ship of Lights may look like for the new series. The scene from the original series is up on YouTube (I can’t remember how to find it), but I can’t remember how to find it.
But the theory does have a solid foundation. Of course, I’m hoping that if they are involved that their involvement isn’t the same way I hope to present it in my machinima comic book fan fiction series when I get it off the ground.
April 25th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
I certainly am not discounting the theory of the Beings o’ Light. I remember them from the 1st series. Although I always thought it was cheesy, it would fit in with the way that elements of the new series echo the 1st. I just think that it was the comet on the wall, not the Ship.
April 25th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
has anyone thought about Alpha Centauri yet? Its a trinary star system.
April 25th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Roslin continues to “SCREAM” Cylon to me.
Funny, Roslin continues to SCREAM ’someone who doesn’t like sharing her messiah toys with others’. And if RDM & Co. cop out and give Roslin another fraking deus ex machina cure for cancer, I’m going to make a point of going to LA. and getting all Natalie on his ass.
I don’t think Calley’s death can be ruled a suicide because you need keys to open the airlock.
To paraphrase the newly appointed Caprican delegate to the Quorum of Twelve, they’ve had to become very good at squinting past things. Hey, Calley could have rigged the launch tube — this isn’t Star Trek where everything magically repairs itself. And it’s not as if everyone hasn’t got enough crazy-creepy b.s. to deal with, without going for the obvious call that a severely disturbed woman finally snapped and committed suicide. While its not been directly addressed, I have the sneaking suspicion that suicide isn’t exactly unknown as a case of death in the fleet.
April 25th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
Moving on to Cally, namely the scene with Cottle in the infirmary, what made me take notice was the fact that she said she would kind of prefer it of Tyrol beat her, at least she would know he felt something for her. This sounds like all kinds of wrong. She seemed to be slipping further and further away from reality to think something like that. Tyrol doesn’t care, she says? He married her!
OK, this is where I vent about something that really annoyed me about the otherwise stonking Lay Down Your Burdens. I know there was a hell of a lot of plot to get through, and I’m not suggesting for a moment that BSG is made by misogynists or freaks who condone violence against women in any way, shape or form. But it just creeped me out that Cally gives Tyrol instant and unconditional forgiveness for a vicious attack… then the next time we see them, it’s a year later and she’d not only married to him, but pregnant with his child! Perhaps it was supposed to creep me out — I just think it would have been a little more of the good creepy with a little more connective tissue between A and B.
April 25th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
did anyone ever notice that the cymbal on the shoulder patch of the colonial soldiers and on the walls of galactica and its flags is very simular to the front shape of a resurection ship! some think to think about.
Earth is the place were you can see the constilations of the twelve colonies of man, and were standing on it. or i mean in it, frak dose any one have any paper towels.
April 25th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
matt and nat, you guys rock. are you cylons. i wont tell.
April 25th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
Just a short comment about Mr ‘moral compass’ wee Adama, there is no other way to say it except that Lee Adama is not Apollo. Neither any longer in call sign nor ever remotely worthy of the mythological allusion. Jamie Bamber is the Mark Hamill of BSG, minus any redemptive essence. This isn’t (entirely) Mr. Bamber’s doing, I’ve seen some of his other work and what I’ve seen has been largely decent. But his BSG screen presence coupled with the character direction has created one of the most woefully pathetic characters on the show.
With the exception of a few what seemed like potential breakthrough moments (such as in “Black Market”), Lee has been blandly predictable and I would argue his character is dispensable. When the decision was made after the miniseries to weave Helo back into the storyline, Apollo’s niche basically became occupied by two characters, and through most of season three, I would say Helo was more the dependable moral compass of the two (ex. “A Measure of Salvation”, “The Woman King”). Plus Helo doesn’t resemble a whiny teenager the way Lee does. Just as the mythological Apollo and Helios came to be blended together, there is too much overlap between Lee and Helo with regard to the role they fill.
It is too early to say for certain that Lee moving to the Quorum will result in more of the same, just on a different ship, but it is currently looking that way. It’s not too late to move him to ship’s cook or to Boxey him.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:48 pm
Tootie “Smallville and shows like that are for the 8-15 age range. That’s obvious after watching about 10 seconds. Battlestar is for adults (yeehah!). Enuff said.”
That is sooooo true. However I’m sure the 8-15 range is getting disappointed with Smallville at this point. BSG is the best in my opinon. You might be right about Tory. She may have covered her tracks. It would have been nice if they had addressed that at some point. But your right in that they might not be able to address every detail in the time they have left.
Well… I guess I don’t know enough about how a battlestar is run to know whether or not it could there could be some way to committ suicide via airlock without keys visible in the air lock. But If it’s possible for the keys to get sucked out I guess that could be an explanation.
April 26th, 2008 at 8:18 am
Garbarge scow? Reminds me of Quark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quark_(TV_series)). Look out for a United Galaxy Sanitation Patrol cruiser!
April 30th, 2008 at 7:38 am
Pimp slap of death!!
April 30th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
Does anyone recall from the webisodes, a conversation about who was going to be a God Parent to their child? Wasn’t that Chief and Cally discussing it? Or was it the other couple with a baby (whose names I cannot recall but she was killed when the cylons and the caprica police bombed their church and the father was initially part of the resistance fighters). The reason I ask is that with Tyrol losing his frakking mind and becoming “a cutter” after the death of Caaaaally, (sorry I always think of her name as being whiny and nasaly) who will end up caring for the male cylon/human hybrid child? Although RDM said that there wasn’t going to be a story arc for Nikki being a hybrid like their was for Hera, that doesn’t change the fact that he is, in fact, a hybrid, and the son of a Final Five to boot.I have a theory that I’ve been considering in which Nicholas’ future could be pivotal. My theory is that, (fitting in with the references to “The Cyclical Nature of Time”), when the colonials find earth it will be (A.) ancient earth far beyond the death of “Our” human race or (B.) The beginning of human time. A sort of Adama and Eve kind of thing. Which would mean that the humans who (in theory) evolved on Kobol actually arrived there after the true first exodus. From Earth (possibly in our near future). Humanity would be the children of the Cylons who were in turn the Children of Humanity. The Final Five are the progeny of Hera, (and possibly Nikki) and at the same time are actually MUCH earlier versions than either The Seven or The Colonials know, which is why they (the seven) were not supposed to be able to speak of the final five. The Final Five either are the Original Cylons going back to the first spin humanity took around the Universe or they are aware of their lineage. The only part that that doesn’t precisely fit this theory is that it requires the Basestar running Hybrids to be able to make jumps not only through space, but the fabric of Space/Time. Hmm, but the Human fleet cannot move through time so I that might not work for Hera and Nikki to be the Adam and Eve of earth. Just a small snack for thought, Anyhow, Rant over.
February 28th, 2010 at 10:19 pm
You gotta expect this to happen eventually, they are called KILLER whales for a reason!
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