BSGcast: 4.06 “Escape Velocity”
So, “Escape Velocity” in a nutshell was brilliantly directed by Eddie Olmos (”Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down”) and masterfully written by Jane Espenson (”Dirty Hands”… anyone else notice Galen’s nod to that episode “to put her up against the bulkhead and shoot her”), but did it have enough action to keep everyone happy? We’re stewing the character arcs now, we know we’re getting ready for what is sure to be a massive cliffhanger for episode 10 of the season, but did it keep everyone satisfied for another week? Watch this week’s ‘cast and leave us with your thoughts for a chance to win some wicked Alienware goods.
April 25th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
are you alive, prove it
April 25th, 2008 at 8:30 pm
while the character bits were great, and the baltar speech at the end was awesome and set up the intrigue about wtf is goign on with starbuck (which they ignored along with what happened to natalie on the basestars)….i duno this episode didnt feel as satisfying as the others…oh and i also liked chiefs nervous breakdown haha, hes sooo frakked up beyond anything, hes thinking about boomer again….maybe she’ll dump cavils wrinkled but and become a happy couple again
i can hope right?!?
But the thing that confuses me…..WHY DO ALL THE CYLONS ACT LIKE MASOCHISTS? like tory at the beginning with baltar, and tigh getting beaten by six….next week better not feature any bondage…eep
April 25th, 2008 at 8:35 pm
EWWW TIGH’S EYE SOCKET!
This episode didn’t exactly fulfill my expectations on one hand, but on the other… it was *so* frakkin creepy to watch. Caprica Six needs some fresh air, I think she’s getting cabin fever (*wink wink).
I am NOT looking forward to the next episode… the Demetrius arc is the worst in my opinion.
April 25th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
Again no PODCAST??!??
Whatever… This episode was so much fun. They just keep adding layers of flavor and texture. As always telling a great story, with social commentary. I love this show and will cry a tear (just 1) when its gone…
I guess they were trying to make up for all the Baltar fans for last week. (Matt)
I like where they seem to be going with Lee and his collision course with Roslin.
I like what they’re doing with Tory. This whole you are perfect and feel no guilt, religion is pretty seductive. Speaking of seduction; I realized long ago that Ms. Sharma was a Beautiful woman, but this season her character is down right SEXY… DAMN!
I don’t know where they’re going with Chief (oops) Specialist Tyrol, I’m struggling to understand what that is all about.
Whats going on with Tigh and Caprica?
Wow, instead of wrapping up plotlines they’ve opened new possibilities. Cool
April 25th, 2008 at 8:57 pm
Responding to:
Malcolm Says:
EWWW TIGH’S EYE SOCKET!
This episode didn’t exactly fulfill my expectations on one hand, but on the other… it was *so* frakkin creepy to watch. Caprica Six needs some fresh air, I think she’s getting cabin fever (*wink wink).
I say:
Dude, Chicks dig scars…
April 25th, 2008 at 9:03 pm
First off, I feel like there is a certain amount of complaining going on about this episode “not going anywhere” and I feel the need to say “SHUT THE FRAK UP!!”
The characters (which are the main and BEST part of BSG) are being developed amazingly! I would say that this episode was amazing because of one thing: the characters. I’ll just go over some things quickly.
Tigh:
Holy Frak! This man is just sooooo human! How can he be a Cylon? His need to stop feeling guilt was tragically great, and those scenes in the brig with Caprica-Six/Ellen hallucination were some of the best. Great writing and great acting. Can’t wait to see more.
Tyrol:
Same as with Tigh. So human that its hard to believe that he is a machine. The Joe’s Bar scene with Adama was very moving and I feel like he is heading for a very, very dark place for the foreseeable future. Will be very interesting to see where this goes.
Tory:
Frak, this girl is ENJOYING being a Cylon! Love where she’s heading.(BTW, the stuff she was doing to Baltar was real creepy.)
Baltar:
Sooooo believable. That’s the glory of Baltar. He can be talking to a machine that only he can see, be the instrument of God, and be an amazingly believable character all in the same scene. He also gets the award for best line in the episode.
- “I think I liked it better when you cried.”
Adama:
LOVED him in this episode. The Bar scene was really powerful, and the sickbay….. Well that was definitely one of the best scenes I’ve seen in a long time. Eddy Olmos is such a great actor, its amazing all the emoting he can convey even without words. (And the unfinished book, really nice character detail!)
So anyway, really nice character episode!
April 25th, 2008 at 9:05 pm
Every show is way ahead of me and this episode was no different. I always think at the end of an episode it was not that good until I think about what I just saw and view it a few more times.
The Chief is clearly the most confused of the final four. Heads will roll under the hand of the Chief.
Lee’s role is becoming the most interesting to me. Who is this man and why does he have the holy grail in the last supper photo? Could he be the final one, I don’t know.
I love Starbucks direction on the show right now. They have me guessing who or what she is.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
This one gets a 3 out of 5 stars for me again, like last episode. I’m sorry guys, I understand there has to be plot development and character development that is built slowly, but seriously, we are running out of episodes here. Only like 15 left! Each episode MUST count and must be awesome, and so far I’ve always had disappointments.
Ok, what I liked:
Super space shots: Season 4 keeps delivering with amazing space shots, for the first time ever we see a shot of the landing deck and we see people walking on it. This was a great episode for BSG techy geeks like myself, who always discussed and wondered about the artificial gravity on the landing decks. This episode proves that there is indeed variable gravity, in this case, it was turned up enough so that people walking could stick to the floor, and we of course saw the Raptor crash in a gravity environment. What I especially loved was the shots inside the Raptor from the back, where you see a view of outside from the front window of the Raptor. Very well done. 5 out of 5 stars for CG work this episode
Tyrol: Loved the breakdown and the demotion. I loved how he messed up the Raptor, although it makes you wonder whether it was done intentionally (conciously or subconciously) or whether it truly was a mistake. I’m gonna go with mistake for right now. Oh and for those folks wanting closure with Cally, Tori lied and said it was a suicide, and people believed it, and I’m happy with that. I didnt think she would hide it from Tyrol, but the fact that she did is great, because it’s going to build up now, and then the Chief is going to blow up in Tori’s face at some point, and it’s going to ROCK!
Tigh-Six: Well, the Hybrid prophecy “and he will find her” is most likely referring to this. Tigh finding his wife. I like the Tich-Six interaction, it made me wonder several times if Six knew that Tigh was a cylon. I liked the conversation about the nature of humans and cylons, and Six saying that “we” were modeled after your brains or something like that. By “your” for a moment it seemd like you, “the final five” rather than you “humans” hence my confusion. But I think Six doesnt know Tigh is a Final Five cylon.
Roslin: Yay, good old moral Roslin is back. I dont hate her anymore, this episode she rocked and her interaction with Baltar was a good one. Clearly Lee was pushing it, and for once I sided with Roslin this episode, something that had not happened in a long while.
Lee: he seems to have turned into a support cast member, they need to get his arch up a notch as far as importance and involvement.
Baltar: Yay, as I had said in my last post for 405, I had two theories to Head Baltar. The return of Head Six proved theory b) wrong. The theory that stated that Head Baltar had replaced Head Six as the voice of God, and represnted his spiritual growth. So then, the only theory I have now is that Head Baltar is his ego, and Head Six is God. But then, something occured to me while Six was talking to Baltar about the glory of being God-like, and Baltar saying it’s not about that, it’s about them, pointing to the people suffering around him. So I’m beginning to think Six represents the Cylon God. Now, recall what was said in one of the deleted scenes in the DVDs in season 3. That one of the Lords of Kobol wanted to be regarded superior to the others, and that is what started the war/conflict on Kobol that lead to the exodus of humanity. Well, look at the connection here. One of the Lords of Kobol who has a big ego and is self-centered, who causes the exodus. And the Cylon God is also referred to as “He Who Cannot Be Named” perhaps indicating a Lord of Kobol who should not be even talked about, because this God has sinned! So it’s possible Six represents this fallen Lord of Kobol, this God who “Cannot be Named”, and who considers himself superior. Where as Baltar is clearly not buying it, and believing in helping others, not in being God-like to think himself superior, but only to help others, which are the true qualities of a loving God. So perhaps…Head Baltar represents this loving God, the true God? while Six represents the Cylon God. See we have not seen enough of Head Baltar to really know. But so far Head Baltar seems very God-like.
Admiral Adama: I love how he still is a “no nonsense” military commander and demoted Chief to Specialist without hesitation when he got pissed off. I liked that a lot.
Baltar’s Speech: Amazing…
Ok, now briefly the things I did not like:
Quorum Conference thingy: When the politicians sit around a talbe and blabber. Not done well.
Sons of Aries(?) attack: Good new arc, but really, not much happened, could have been better.
Overall action was a bit weak in this episode. No breath-taking moments. You gotta have those every episode, I mean as I said, we are running out of time here. Every episode must have a big plot development, a big closure, a big breath-taking moment etc. Nothing really big happened this episode, besides Chief’s demotion, which wasnt that big a thing after all.
We need big, we need closure, we need new awesome arcs, we need answers, and we need our breath-taking moments. Cally’s death and Tori’s super slap were such moments. The Cylon arc was full of them, such as the Base Ship vs Base Ship shot.
We need more of these moments, and we need them now before it’s too late
While I’m at it, let me rate 403 and 404, since I havnt so far:
4.5 out of 5 Stars for 403
3.5 out of 5 Stars for 404
3 out of 5 Stars for 405
3 out of 5 Stars for 406
Or something around there. I’m really waiting for another 4.5 or 5/5 episode…
Adalla
April 25th, 2008 at 9:11 pm
I thought it was intense and amazing. I even shed a tear which is unlike me. I give it a 4.5.
I am not much of a critic though.. just an unabashed fan.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
For the people who say they don’t know where the characters are going; hey you are not supposed to know everything at once!
Thats the great thing about BSG. We still don’t know why Balter has a head six. This show is a slow boil for sure.
Some bad news, I heard the final 10 episodes will not air until 2009, yikes!
Sci-fi is pulling a Sopranos.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:33 pm
2009? Are you SERIOUS? Oh my Gods!
April 25th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
I was not too high on this ep either, but I loved a few things:
The service for Cally, was beautiful, and very sad; Chief is clearly devastated. I can’t wait until he finds out what a naughty girl Tory is! Boy is she getting naughty too.
Lee was important in this ep, as we are starting see how he is growing into his new role and a) he noticed something wierd w/Tory, Tigh and the Chief, and b) he is keeping a close eye on Baltar, and I believe was a little shocked at seeing Tory in that final Baltar sermon?!
The most fascinating point of the night: Tigh, Chief and Tory are all using pain to feel human. Tory says blocking it out is how she deals w/ the pain of guilt and sadness, sorry, you don’t need to be a cylon to do that. I also loved, The Tigh/Six scenes; it is still so sad how guilty he feels about Ellen, and talking to 6 to find out how being a cylon makes it go away, did absolutely nothing.
So, once again, we are left with that blurred line between human and machine. I’d say overall, it was my least favorite ep so far, but a necessary one.
A
April 25th, 2008 at 9:54 pm
The chief is going through a rough patch, who wouldn’t! The mother of his son just died, he just discovered that who he thought he was was a lie, c’mon! Give him a break. I would go nuts for half of that. Speaking of going nuts, I re-read the Hybrid’s prophecy, more particularly this following bit: “Kara Thrace will lead the human race to its end. She is the herald of the apocalypse, the harbinger of death. They must not follow her.” She will lead the human race to its end (where they intend to go, i.e. Earth). She is the herald of the apocalypse, the harbinger of death (Just who’s apocalyse and death are we talking about? That of the humans or that of the Cylons).
April 25th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
I really liked this episode. I actually cried when Baltar gave his speech at the end of the episode. It’s so hard to tell if he’s actually changed or if he is the same old self serving Baltar. But regardless I loved his speech, it was beautiful. It also made Tory look less crazy. However I think that she should fess up to what she did, at least to Tyrel. I don’t think they investigated Calley’s death very well, to be honest with you. Tyrel really pissed me off the way he was bashing Calley, I know he’s obviously grieving but still. He’s turning into a bit of a jerk in my opinon.
I also thought the relationship between Tigh and Caprica was sooo funny. The way she wakes up to him just stareing at her. It’s strange to see the tender side of Colonel tigh, but I liked it. He’s so desperate to find out who and what he really is, and to find redemption for murdering his wife. It’s really quite beautiful. I loved it when he said “No, we’re not going to talk about the fragile body of giaus fraking baltar” haha so funny. I loved they way Caprica explains how she learns through pain and love.
I was really hopeing this would be the episode where they come upon the 3 flaming basestars, and the president and starbuck both go aboard. I guess I’ve been watching one to many promo’s.
It seems like the 4 are slowly changeing. Tyrel is becoming more vicious and mean, while Colonel Tigh is becoming more tender. The way he looks at Caprica when he’s seeing his wife, and the way he tended to little niki when he was crying. Tory is becoming a bit more open minded, and Anders is more in love with Starbuck than ever. But that’s not new. Anders rocks.
Ben Sona, I totally hope you are wrong about the final 10 episodes. If the final 10 episodes air in 2009 I will be soooo mad you have no idea….. Don’t even joke about that.
April 25th, 2008 at 11:14 pm
I actually enjoyed this episode. There was so much that added to the show itself, proving once again, that the show isn’t about flying and fighting Cylons every week. This actually added a lot of psychology into the show that wasn’t present before. And this was another episode directed by Edward James Olmos, which was pretty awesome.
Now, for the Tigh/Caprica Six thing, I must admit, it’s impressive. Because we’ve never seen a Cylon being asked these kinds of questions before, where we get their point of view and feelings about what they did to humanity. Kudos to Tricia and Michael for pulling off what I think is the most interesting Cylon/Cylon scenes I’ve seen thus far in the series.
Now, there is one thing that is sort of bugging me… Roslin’s wig. I know, her hair is falling out from the treatments, but you’d think she would just shave her head and get a wig made from that instead of wearing the black hair that obviously screams “Hey, I have cancer and all I could find is this black wig to hide it.” For a moment, I began to wonder if Roslin was a Cylon and that the copy that was in the Fleet swapped places with the one with dark hair. TBH, if she were a strong character, she wouldn’t wear a wig. She’d just be bald (just my opinion of course).
Finally, the whole scene with Baltar being beaten up by the soldier who was blocking his way into his living area (who so happens to be the same guy who was guarding him during “Taking a Break from All Your Worries”, and also breathed life back into him after his suicide attempt) definately looked like he was being held up by Head Six (after he gets knocked down the second time, where he says he wants to stay down, after Six get him onto his feet, he looks like he’s suspended from wires like a puppet (don’t know if they did, but it definately looked rather unnatural to me).
April 26th, 2008 at 12:00 am
Yes, Baltar being pulled up by Six was very unnatural, and it is the most extreme we’ve seen of this type of thing up to now.
Now, this is starting to show that Head Six is not really in Baltar’s Head after all, she is a real being (a Being of Light/Angel perhaps?) who is simply visible to whoever she chooses to be visible to. I.e someone with divine power.
April 26th, 2008 at 12:35 am
Interesting you should bring this up, Adalla. Someone brought up the theory over at one of the BBoards I go to (I think it may have been either Sci-Fi or Ragnar Anchorage) that the Head Six, Head Baltar and the Head Leoban (the one that Kara speaks with in “Maelstrom”) may be more than just figments of the imagination. I tend to think that maybe that the good Beings of Light were controling the Head Leoban (which would explain by what Starbuck meant when she said, “They’re waiting for me.” after having interacted with Head Leoban) while the “Count Iblis”-like entity is controlling the Head Baltar and Head Six for his/her own intent.
April 26th, 2008 at 2:06 am
Ok, I noticed Bear McCreary got a little nostalgic for Firefly in this episode. The violin refrain that starts around 39:15 when Roslin asks Adama to read the next chapter was straight out of Serenity.
I love how Tigh had a Charlton Heston moment with Caprica. I really thought he was about to say “Get your damn hands off me you damn dirty cylon!” for a sec
It seems a bit ironic with Mr. Heston’s recent passing, like a subtle nod to his work in the sci-fi genre. Uh oh, that algae gruel isn’t soylent is it?!?
I also loved that ecstatic look on Caprica’s face when she’s beating Tigh down. If a woman that beautiful were giving me that look, she might just be able to convert me to S&M too
April 26th, 2008 at 2:11 am
Ok, I’ve skimmed a bit of what other people have written, and frankly I can’t understand why people are griping about this episode, it was great. Here’s my two cents worth:
(1) Torry was hilarious when she was pleasing/hurting Baltar. Plus with the other pain inducing scene between Caprica Six and Tigh, I’m starting to think that Cylons have a thing for pain and pleasure. Why is it not hard to believe that on one of the Brother Cavil basestars there is Boomer dressed up in a BDSM domminatrix leather outfit whipping Brother Cavil, while he’s begging for more? LOL
(2) With Tigh imagining Ellen, and Tyrol imagining that Adama said “Maybe she couldn’t take being married to a Cylon” I’m beggining to think that one of the ways that the Final 5 Cylons are different than the other 7 Cylons is that they can’t control their projection, it is only ruled by their subconcious, and the scientists who made the Final 5 (they made them first I think) saw what worked and what didn’t work (so the Final 5 were like the beta versions of Cylons), so they changed the projection so that the 7 Cylons could actively control it, and also so that they could only project visually, not audio as well.
(3) This is a show with tremendous actors, but especially tonight when I watched the bar scene between Adama and Tyroll I thought it was absolute perfection.
(4) I love it when we see a different side of a character we think we’ve got pegged down, and tonight we saw a different more flippant slightly careless version of Roslin.
(5) I love how yet again the writers showed two shades of grey when Roslin and Lee were making their valid points during the Quorum meeting.
I can’t wait till next episode, it looks like its not going to dissapoint.
April 26th, 2008 at 4:50 am
Okay, after the haunting end to Season 3, I was hoping things would get really surreal and frakked up in Season 4. And strangely enough my hopes were met! The events are very surreal. But it feels like the show is getting a little too weird. I love the more… abstract aspects of BSG, but there’s a line between being cool and being silly. Certain things in this episode just stuck me as a little too silly for the tone of the show. I find myself not entirely impressed by Baltar’s actions. It’s certainly believable in the context of the character, but I really have to wonder what message the writers are trying to convey. So far the allegory does not seem very impressive. But Baltar is pretty much my favorite character so I enjoy watching him anyway. It just seems a little below him to flip out and crash some meaningless religious ceremony. And the circumstances surrounding his “cult” have always been questionable to me. I realize they were originally underground supporters of his social ideologies, but how did they go from scorned underclass to religious fanatics? And why are they almost all women? Why are random civilians wandering around on Galactica and given rights for “assembly”? Aren’t the only civilians no the ship supposed to be the Saggitarons confined to the hangar bay?
The Tigh/Six stuff was weird too. I like creepy stuff, I’ve seen everything – I can handle it. It just seemed too weird to me. I understand what sort of mental state Tigh may be in, but it seems like the characters are bending to accommodate these super trippy events.
The best scene in the episode for me was Adama and Tyrol in the bar. That really spoke of the gritty human drama and tragedy that the show represents to me.
Six lifting Baltar up? It’s kinda cool that we’ve got solid evidence that she can actually exert physical influence in the tangible world, but that seemed a bit much, didn’t it? The point could have been made with subtly. It felt like they were trying to be more sensationalist than need be.
I don’t like Roslin’s wig. I don’t feel like it suits her. Couldn’t they have gotten one more like her regular wavy hair?
I can’t recall any other points of interest right now. I found out after seeing the episode that Jane Espenson wrote it. (I never pay attention to the credits at the start.) I’ve watched a lot of her work and have never liked her writing. So I wasn’t particularly surprised that this episode felt so strange. The Passage was full of ridiculous plot conceits and Dirty Hands was a regurgitation of a first year political sciences textbook on Marxism. I guess she gains a couple points for the several cool speeches that were in this episode. So yeah, I like some parts while others left a bad taste. A very weird episode for sure.
Definitely looking forward to next week because apparently one of my other top favorites is featured. And he seems to be offering painting lessons!
April 26th, 2008 at 6:24 am
But the thing that confuses me…..WHY DO ALL THE CYLONS ACT LIKE MASOCHISTS?
When did Cavil stop being a Cylon — who as far as I can see has his kink-o-meter all the way on the other end of the dial on SADISTIC FREAK. If I’d been pimped for the cause by Ol’ One Eye I don’t know if I’d really be up for a vanilla cuddle party with a lunatic either.
Now, there is one thing that is sort of bugging me… Roslin’s wig. I know, her hair is falling out from the treatments, but you’d think she would just shave her head and get a wig made from that instead of wearing the black hair that obviously screams “Hey, I have cancer and all I could find is this black wig to hide it.”
This might sound really nit-picky, but my suspension of disbelief went right out the window when after all the &$%# that went down during the escape from New Caprica, finding Laura Roslin a pristine fitted suit for her swearing in. And wasn’t it a stroke of luck Lee just happened to pack a suit for his flying visit to the Galactica de-commissioning ceremony. Sorry, guys, but I don’t think there’s a Spa Ship out there in the RTF.
April 26th, 2008 at 6:37 am
I had very little sleep over the last few days or this would be a lot better. It may seem scrambled but I’m trying my best. I have been awake for 4 days now. LOL
Now before I get into my thoughts on last nights show I have a thought for all of you.
Col Tie, he is one of the final 5 but there is something to think about with him. He fought in the first Cylon war; I thought that there were no skin jobs then? The only one I can think of is the hybrid on the baseship Adama went after and they showed in Razor.
OK now onto last night. While I’m on Tie WTF is going on with him and the #6? It looks like he is melting down as well as the other 2 who are on Galactica. Is he going to tell her about himself and the other 3? Tory is experimenting with her Cylon side and learning to embrace it. Tyrol is seemingly letting the Cylon in him sneak out once in a while doing things he normally wouldn’t do. (The Raptor. Was it an accident or did the Cylon take over?) He is also seemingly trying to get caught possibly to save the ones he loves. He seems to be feeling guilt just like Tie but dealing with it in a whole different direction. I think that is why he got all over Adama. He wanted to get kicked out of the military to make it so he can’t accidentally do any more damage. Also it looks like he has no clue that his wife was murdered. Is this for real or is he just helping to cover up Tory. I wonder if she is going to end up being the teacher or even the leader for the other final 5 who are in the fleet struggling to figure out who and what they are.
OK Matt here is one just for you. Did you notice the old woman who Baltar was talking with last night? The one with the medallion of one of the old Gods? I am not 100% sure but I think she is the one from the mini series on Caprica who was in the lottery to get on the Raptor with Boomer. The one who couldn’t find her glasses that were on her head. I wonder where that is going. Now what was going on between Rosalyn and Baltar? Something seems to be going on beyond what was said. I also have a theory here, now check this out. As Baltar was giving his little speech at the end of the show they were panning to lots of different people. I am wondering if one of them may be the last of the final 5. I think we are close to him or her being reveled.
April 26th, 2008 at 7:35 am
Can anyone make out what Baltar said to Apollo?
Apollo: “I don”t do these things for you”
Baltar: “you do them because_____God”
It almost sounded like he said “your God” but I can’t be sure.
Apollo is flying under the radar in this series. He is the most moral out of the bunch. Baltar is far too flawed and petty to be a Christ like figure.
April 26th, 2008 at 8:25 am
i waited a fraken week for this, i was a little disapointed with this episode but i understand what they are doin. you have to cook the roast first before you can eat it. they are developing the story arc of baltar to be the one true god “the one who programed them” and this takes time. i would like to have seen more of starbuck and the bounty. looks like she got her whale and its leoben. whats up with ty and six. i see this goin bad for six, i think she knows ty is one of the 5. she almost sais it. i bet he kills her later to cover his tracks after the booty call,lolololol. chief tyrel is well needs a vacation, swapin floors for a week or two in the latrine should help. mabe hell lose some weight, he’s gettin a little chunky. the special effects were really good as they always are. I’m still a believer in matts theory that the trinary stars kara is lookin for is and will be the three basestars.
April 26th, 2008 at 8:27 am
Interesting comments, my one point is about Roslin. It seems to me that Roslin has a Mosses thing going for you. I think she’s the one to eventually lead the fleet to Earth but, like Mosses, not be able to enter.
April 26th, 2008 at 8:55 am
Did anyone else LOL at Tigh’s comment about changing Nicky’s diapers? When Tigh and Tory go to see Chief and Tigh asks why Nicky is crying, and Chief just says “He probably needs to be changed.” Then Tigh just mutters “Alright…”
Maybe I was just hearing things, but Tory starts talking at the same time so its a little hard to notice.
April 26th, 2008 at 9:44 am
Ryan L- Not really. The only thing it shows is how he doesn’t really know about child care.
April 26th, 2008 at 9:51 am
Maybe its just the fact that picturing Tigh changing a childs diaper is funny to me xD
But anyways, what was that other religious groups name? Son of Ares, or Son of Aries? I was thinking “Ares” makes more sense because those people had all of that war paint on and such, but I’m not sure.
April 26th, 2008 at 10:01 am
Seeing Baltar physically lifted up was DEFINITELY the most telling moment in this episode for the ‘big story’ of BSG. It really looks like the Head-Creatures are physically there. Lends itself back to the theory that these are the Beings of Light, and possibly also the Lord of Kobol instead of just some kind of mental problems that Baltar, Six and Starbuck have. And it also makes any eye-witnesses of Baltar’s passive-agressive Ghandi actions a bit more convinced of his divinity.
Of course, seeing Lee and Tori quite a part of the Baltar’s speech at the end was also pretty important I think. We’ve got at least 2 people in the Quorum room who know what Baltar is preaching, and have varying degrees of believing him. I think Lee is seeing a very different man in Gaius Baltar than the selfish hedonistic man he used to play cards with in Season 1. Gaius even alludes to that in his speech.
Ben Sona: I rewatched that particular scene, and Baltar says: “You do them because your God compels you”
Jim: I was intrigued by the idea that it might be the same woman from the min-series… I just checked and it’s definitely a different actress, but very similar mannerisms and speech pattern…. food for thought, fro sure!
Nat’s up visiting her folks this weekend for her name day (it’s a Greek thing), so she hasn’t even seen the episode, yet! They don’t have cable or something… poor girl. Luckily I DVR’ed it onto our Mac-Mini… I’m sure she’ll have quite a bit to say!
~Matt
April 26th, 2008 at 10:46 am
Mat wrote:
“Of course, seeing Lee and Tori quite a part of the Baltar’s speech at the end was also pretty important I think. We’ve got at least 2 people in the Quorum room who know what Baltar is preaching, and have varying degrees of believing him. I think Lee is seeing a very different man in Gaius Baltar than the selfish hedonistic man he used to play cards with in Season 1. Gaius even alludes to that in his speech.”
I was wondering about this aspect of the scene, particularly how Lee sees things. He almost seems to have a disgusted look on his face as he’s putting on his jacket to leave. It’s like he’s suddenly feeling a little regret for lifting the ban on their gatherings, and maybe the message that “everyone is perfect” doesn’t sit so well for him. He has a history of wallowing in guilt (the Olympic Carrier, frakking another man’s wife instead of his own), so would he really easily fall into a religion that preaches self-forgiveness? And it’ll be interesting to see how he uses the info about Tory being there and obviously buying into Baltar’s speech; will he blurt it out to Laura when they’re arguing (maybe even in Session?), or will he try to blackmail Tory somehow (if he’s even capable)?
I really dug the scene where Figurski asks Tyrol if he got an early start or if he had a late night. You could just read his thoughts off of his face and the way he wandered away: “What AM I doing? How can any of this really matter any more? I’m through with this s#!t!” Brilliant acting
I seem to recall from a promo that Tyrol shaves his head, and they ask if he’s a deserter. Chief Tyrol wouldn’t desert his post, but Specialist Tyrol might (esp. if he’s late for a Cylons Anonymous meeting).
April 26th, 2008 at 11:00 am
First off, the BSGcast for the previous episode had me rolling on the floor laughing. “Maybe Tori stole some pimp from Baltar.” Classic.
I know I’m in the minority, but this is my favorite episode of the season so far. The last few have just been disapointing, this was good better.
First off, the Cylons. Anders is definitely the only sane one out there, and he’s married to a crazy lady! Tigh is clearly unfit to lead at this point. He’s lost it. Also, Caprica Six’s creepy attraction to Tigh, that came out of left field. The beating scene, yeah, I still don’t understand the point of that. Tyrol, wow, that was some seriously good acting on Aaron Douglas’s part. I was hoping Cally’s death would lead to a semi-murder mystery with the Chief trying to figure out what had happened, but this worked well too. The man who fixes things is now on a self-destructive path. Viper and Rapter pilots beware. Tori however is a serious danger. She’s completely lost it. She’s embraced her machineness and is a serious threat to all. Were I Tigh, I’d put a single bullet into her head.
Also, the Cylon Superstrength has me curious. It looks like it’s activated only when one realizes they are a Cylon. Otherwise Cally would have gotten more than a few bruises in the season 2 finale.
And YAY for Baltar! Sectarian violence, woohoo! The Sons of Ares huh? They looked like something out of a medievel times type show. Glad to see Baltar preaching and disrupting the state-sponsored religious services. I didn’t manage to catch the close captioning, but when he was being dragged away by the Marines he said either “The gods have already died” or “I have already died”. If its the latter then the Jesus parallels continue. He’s been reborn as a person, definitely. His speech at the end was seriously good. At least he’s being honest about his actions. That’s more than can be said for…
…Roslin. Evil woman. I am seriously glad Zarek let Lee loose to mess up Roslin’s plans. She’s a good leader, but she’s growing more and more authoritarian with each turn. Lee standing up to her is great, even if he is a wind up and aim “Right Choice” guy. Somewhere in the fleet Romo Lampkin is laughing and stealing things.
The preview for next week looks awesome. Go Helo! Starbuck is crazy and needs to be put down as soon as possible, IMHO. It’s like I said last week, she’ll lead them to Earth, but she’ll doom humanity. As long as the humans on Earth survive, humanity survives. The fleet is insignificant in that sense. When Starbuck leads the fleet to Earth she’ll inadvertantly tip off the Cylons, who will then wipe out all of humanity, the fleet and Earth. So we have Christ (Baltar) and the antichrist (Starbuck). I’m siding with the womanizing ex-VP turned prophet.
April 26th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
with cat being dead, starbuck on a fishing trip and lee gone who is the new CAG! does any one no?
April 26th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
I think all the episodes so far haven’t been up to the standard they were claimed to be. What really makes episodes good are the cliff hangers. As much as we (the fans) hate cliff hangers because we want to know everything now, they best episodes come in pairs: the cliff hanger, then the week or a summers worth of anticipation, and the conclusion to the cliff hanger. Great episodes piss us of because they don’t tell us the whole story. So far there has only been one cliff hanger(what happened to the 8’s and 6’s). So RDM give us cliff hangers please.
Fans do not hate me for saying that you know its true….
Now on to the episode
All of the final 4 are going crazy.
TIGH is just really confused and completely lost. I think he is the only one who knows who he is but he is still dealing with killing his wife and he is afraid of what he could become
TYROL- i feel bad for him because he just feels like he is a piece of garbage. I think he truly hates himself and the only thing stoping him from killing himself is his son. We know he trully loves cally because he was able to create a half cylon child with her. He hates himself because he thinks cally hated him so much she killed herself.
TORY is in denial. she is trying to make the cylons out to be perfect (eventhough most of the seven don’t believe they are) and glorify herself and the final 4. She is really completely terrified of being a cylon and that she could be possibly responsible for so many deaths. She is trying to convince herself that the cylons are perfect and made no mistakes in order to stop feeling guilty. When the denial stops I think tory is going to feel so guilty she will at least one of the final 4, maybe herself.
SAM is the sane one because he doesn’t have to think about the fact that he is a cylon. He is so focused on and distracted by kara.
LEE – I hate him so much It will take another blog to discuss this
Kara- She is so crazy and I love it. Last weeks demetreus scenes were just there to show how crazy and deranged she has become> the previews for next week prove it
April 26th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
I think that the bar scene was so brilliant just because normally thats the type of scene where Papadama gives you a break and everything is resolved, but this time things are just worse.
I actually thought Racetrack and Skulls had died in this one, although I must say I’m disappointed to see that Racetrack and SKulls had no wounds or anything. I cant help feeling like you would have gotten atleast one bruise from it. If one of them was in sickbay I think it would have made the whole “endangering people lives” thing much more extreme.
April 26th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
I keep going back and forth, Does anybody know if Tigh’s eye Socket is CG and Actual effect?
Also Now Gaius Baltar is a god?!?
I though he was a Prophet?!?
Well That is all I really have to say, That and Also C6 Pulls off the blonde wig better the Mrs.Tigh did.
Also Matt when you google Image search Gaius Baltar You & Casey pop up!lolz, and “Chia Gaius” has a good one two.
April 26th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
-i enjoyed balthar’s speech until the conclusion that they’re perfect the way they are, and i think lee felt disgusted with the outcome of that speech as well…balthar really dropped the ball on that one…like Roslin said, a religious movement with blind devotion like this is gonna be trouble…although she’s causing trouble herself…
-tory’s still deluded on her ‘perfection’, Tory & Cavill would be a match made in heaven, or should i say hell, whatever…i’m sure we can all agree that Tory hearing balthar’s speech is not good, she’s losing her sanity…not because she’s a cylon, but from her misconceptions of what it is to be a cylon…athena can teach her a thing or 2, too bad she’s in a garbage dump…Tory’s more disturbing than Cavill, at least Cavill makes me laugh…
-i really enjoyed caprica 6 explaining how cylon brains are modeled after the human brain, it helps blur the line between human and cylon…the human body can reach extraordinary strengths given the right circumstances, thats probably how Tory put the pimp in her slap…
-why the final 5 were originally seperated from the original 7…i believe some models understood that humans and cylons are only different in their beliefs, or they attempted peace with humanity and the other cylons didn’t agree…being human or cylon is about who u are, not what u are…or at least for some of the models…i’m not sure since sleeper agent boomer momentarily lost her free will to carry out her missions…and its odd that she’s number 8…which would suggest she’s “flawed” like the final 5?
-earth is likely very advanced at this point, what if humans have evolved into what the cylons have become? maybe thats what starbuck is, a resurrected ‘human’…seems a cylon is just a genetically engineered human…what if earth is the cylon homeworld?…the 13th tribe left for a ‘new’ homeworld, so did the cylons…never mind, i’m just frustrated that we still know nothing about the actual Cylon homeworld, arrrghhh
-i sure hope Boomer is just manipulating Cavill, cuz seems she’s just lost it completely…in which case, the chief better not take her back if given the chance…
-chief is losing it quick, and i hope he won’t really lose it and do something to his baby cuz he don’t seem to be in a very fatherly mood lately…
SPOILER: next week’s preview shows head leobin showing up in person; the chief in his bald look holding a gun to his own head!…sigh, in the world of BSG, a week can be an eternity…
PS. FAVE TIGH MOMENT: “wanna know the secret to avoid a hangover? don’t stop drinking…”
April 26th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
caprica 6: “balthar’s body was fragile in my hands”
-tricky choice of words as usual…
-tigh & tory were more concerned with keeping their secret than consoling tyrol, they’re too paranoid and looks like it fraked them over a bit…
-tigh knows how to change a diaper, he always surprises me with something haha…
-of all the things to comment on, why does anybody care about Roslin’s wig? what the frak!
April 26th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
“Of course, seeing Lee and Tori quite a part of the Baltar’s speech at the end was also pretty important I think. We’ve got at least 2 people in the Quorum room who know what Baltar is preaching, and have varying degrees of believing him. I think Lee is seeing a very different man in Gaius Baltar than the selfish hedonistic man he used to play cards with in Season 1. Gaius even alludes to that in his speech.”
As I had mentioned in my first post, I think that Lee (who is one of my favorite characters next to Zarek, and Baltar of course), is seeing a different man in Gaius Baltar. However, in contrast to your comments above, I believe he is observing Baltar, and trying to see if he is as dangerous as Roslin claims he is, or if he, meaning Lee, did the right thing by letting him back into his home and able to freely worship w/his followers. Lee has no respect for Baltar, and believes he is weak and cowardly, and as any good defense attorney believes, had a right to a fair trial and defense. He also believes that Gaius, is a survivor, and saving his own skin, is always his #1 priority. Why do we, the viewers know that this is this still true, although he begged for death in the second ep? Well, he was hiding up in the rafters and Tory waited below as the Sons of Aries attacked them.
Roslin has become dangerously obsessive w/her mission and Baltar as she grows sicker. She seems to see him like the cancer that grows in her body. I believe, and I think Lee does as well, she gives him way too much credit. She was trying to discredit Lee by saying at least 2 or 3 times, that they all knew what it was like on NC, but no one cared, and it doesn’t matter.
Zarek was right when he nominated Lee to the quorum, we can already see Lee gaining in power, as he already got everyone to vote against Roslin on removing the emergency order against Baltar’s people. She is obsessed w/Baltar and how dangerous he is, but the bottom line is, as Lee knows and said at the trial, Baltar surrendered to save his own skin, not anyone else’s. Lee also said, and it’s true, that what else should he have done? The cylons would have nuked them all if he had said no. He was WAS NOT LEADING ANYONE on NC, and Roslin never accepted that, she hates him because he is weak. I also believe, that she blames herself for not stealing the election, and preventing the cylon invasion on NC. Although Adama said it would have killed her to do it, since she is dying again, she probably thinks she should have done it. It is now a bitter pill for her to swallow.
Oh, and yeah! Head Six is back…and what was up w/Tigh changing the diaper?
A
April 26th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
Another thing that got me, did any one else notice Head Six looked at Tory?
I think Baltar Is playing Tory, as part of the big plan.
I also wonder, They showed Tigh Younger In a flash back so a skin job can age, So if Tigh dies and comes back, Will he be 40 years younger?
Same question goes for the other three.
April 26th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
This episode was fantastic! Folks, good storyline and character development takes it’s own sweet time. Have faith that after the first 6 eps or so we will see all Hell break loose.
I said several weeks ago that Tori’s “switch” would flip first and how true has that been. She has just downright accepted her new identity. She’s got no remorse and truly feels inside that her nature is perfect and just. Whether you’re Human or Cylon those two traits within someone makes them extremely dangerous and unpredictable.
The scene in Joe’s with the Chief and Adama was intense. Chief is second guessing everything in his life: his choices, his past, his future…I really feel sorry for the guy. Now that he’s been demoted I think his “programming” choice will be interesting. Will he accept what he is and let his destiny roll or will he fight it and suffer to the point of hurting many?
The Tigh and Six scenes were fantastic! Tigh wants to understand his pain over Ellen so he can turn it off. Yet he can’t come right out and tell anyone he’s a Cylon…not even Six. A very proud man has been reduced to trusting an enemy for understanding . That is the tragedy of it all.
The common theme here is that no matter if you’re Human or Cylon you learn about life the same way…through loss. It’s what we do with loss that makes us unique. Some make a change for the positive while some dwell on that pain and destroy themselves and others around them. We see people on both sides taking both roads. At the endgame when they reach Earth you will not see two sides…they will be equal sentient beings trying to find the best way to live hand in hand.
I loved the scenes with Baltar. Hands down the best writing on the show is his story line. The unnatural way his body looked as Six picked him up is hopefully proof that she is a physical being of some sort and not just his mind frakking with him. The “sermon” he gave at the end was absolutely inspiring. I was keen to the subtle way Lee was shown taking stock of just who was in the room watching. By the time the end is here Lee will be the one to out the “four.”
I continue to be intrigued with this season and I can’t wait for next week…
April 26th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
Great comments all. I actually enjoy reading these a little bit too much… I am glad their are people as equally in love with this show… makes me feel less of an obssesive.
Is anybody else just desperate to see Tigh get a scene where he can trully lash out? This guy has been everybody’s bitch on this show since the beginning. if you look at the character, he comes across as strong and gritty and yet has been weak and had so much tragedy and horror in his life whilst never once getting a chance to lash out at anybody for it. First he was a slave to the job itself… he never wnated the power… then he was a slave to the bottle and had to go through no end of embarrassment and ridicule and then his wife shows up and puppeteers him around for all to see. Then when he finally gets a break from all of this and he might have a shot at happiness he gets his eye spiked out on New Caprica, his wife has sex with Cavill (who seems like quite the player) and then he has to kill her. Then he spends another few months locked away brooding and when he does return to the job he hates but cannot live without he starts hearing things, gets humiliated during baltars trial and then finds out he is a Cylon.
Tigh is my favourite character and Hogan plays the role so beautifully… but i for one cannot wait until he breaks out the Cylon strength or the super nurons or whatever it is and kills something.
The first thing he chooses to unleash all his pent up horror and guilt and rage and sorrow on will not get up.
This weeks show was another example of an episode that wasn’t big or flashy but just helped prod storylines along and helped develop new plot threads. Great work by all involved.
April 26th, 2008 at 6:52 pm
Great comments all. Keep them coming.
I just rewatched the re-run of 406 on the SPACE channel (yes, dealing with commercial breaks this time was excruciating. The first time around I like commercials, cause it gives you time to digest things a bit and take a breath). And there are certain things you only notice once you watch the episodes again.
The thing that really caught me, is the final scene when Head Six is just standing there in the background, smiling at Baltar, and then…and then she turns and looks at Tori! Now, we know that Head Six can see other people just as if she were there. Like when she’d sneak around people that Baltar would be talking to etc. But what’s interesting is that as Baltar is preaching about how everyone is perfect, Six stares at Tori, who embodies Baltar’s new message completely. Now, it’s made me wonder if it was Tori who gave Baltar the idea that everyone is perfect, or whether it was Head Six. Cause Tori started talking about them being perfect far earlier than anyone else, from the last episode, when she told Tyrol. Anyways, I thought it was not coincidental that Six looked at Tori right when Baltar spoke of everyone being perfect. I think Tori is going to supercede Cavil as the most “evil” Cylon. Now, I dont think she’s evil, but her morality is different, her belief system and her perspective. But as others have said, I’m pretty sure Tori will cause serious problems in the very near future. She’s the only Final Five cylon who has no regrets and no problems with her new identity. She found clarity quickly, while the others are still struggling.
Another thing I noticed, is something that supports my theory of cylon projections. We know Three projects a Church, and Six projects a forest. My theory is that the Five project the real world. And in this episode, we see Tigh projecting Ellen, and Tyrol projecting Adama saying something that he did not say. And this also supports Baltar being a cylon, as he projects Six and himself
I’m curious to know when they’ll bring back Three. I miss her a lot, she was such a great character and actor.
Oh and btw, I tried finding out about the 2009 thing, and the last news that I was able to find dated to March 2008, and it said that as of the end of the writer’s strike, 14 episodes were produced, and that at least 10 would be aired starting April 4th. However, they are still trying to determine exactly when to air the second half of season 4. I mean what’s certain is that the season is split into two, like all other seasons. What’s still being determined is when the second half will air, and they are talking either Fall 2008 or February 2009.
Oh…and guess what the title of the half-season cliff-hanger is? “Revelations” lol…I will bet you anything, it will be the most excruciating cliff-hanger in television history! I mean, the title of the episode itself is terribly exciting and tells you big stuff is going to happen!
I’m thinking some if not all of these will happen in Revelations: a) Final Cylon will be revealed. b)Three will be unboxed. c)Starbuck’s nature will be revealed.
I think a) definintely will happen, b) might happen sometime before the cliff-hanger half season finale, and c) might not happen until the second half, but I bet we’ll be given some big clues…
I just hope it’s not February 2009…I mean at one episode per week, that means the half season will end around the 2nd week of June or so. June to February is a long wait…
~Adalla
~Adalla
April 26th, 2008 at 8:14 pm
i watched all the angel/agitator, legend/leader, diplomat/dictator, etc. promo’s before…but now that bsgcast reminded me of it, here’s 2 users on youtube that always seem to have most of the bsg promo’s available…if ur a bsg addict like me, u’ll enjoy every one-liner in these promos…i especially like athena’s promo where she says (to boomer, i believe) “You pick your side and you stick! You dont cut and run when things get ugly!”…also, there’s last supper commercials, and just about every other commercial promo out there…also noticed the EW’s last supper has different clues than Scifi.Com’s last supper…anyways, time for me to head to a bar, enjoy the promos if u missed out!
http://ca.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=SevorTB&p=r
http://ca.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=indysid&p=r
April 26th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
We are all getting the ultimate mind frak by RM, and I can’t seem to get enough. The end of every episode comes way too quick. I could watch all day long.
Keep it coming RM…we’re ready…bring it on!
April 26th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
roberto elliotto- To answer your question, it’s most likely that Lt. Noel ‘Narcho’ Allison (played by Sebastian Spence) that is currently the CAG. If you don’t remember the character, he was originally the CAG for Pegasus before Starbuck went out on her rogue recon mission to get pictures of the Resurrection Ship in “Pegasus”. He can also be seen in other episodes (including Season 3’s “The Son Also Rises”).
I know we’re reaching the end of the show soon, but when you’re so close to the end you can’t help but think about the beginning. And there’s a lot of stuff I’ve noticed and a lot of questions I’ve asked myself that not many people have thought about or simply dismissed as “that’s the way the writers wanted it”. I’ve come to my own conclusions to some of the questions I’ve asked. But there are still quite a few that I still can’t put my finger on. I guess not everything “will be revealed” as it is put in the commercials. Because not all questions have been realized by many of the BSG fans. Of course, that’s just my opinion.
April 27th, 2008 at 6:45 am
Good call, CB2001… Narcho or woudl make sense. Although the CAG from Pegasus never really met an on-screen end that I can remember, but we’ve not seen him in a while. He’d be a logical CAG as well.
What other questions are you thinking of from the beginning, CB2001? These could be some T-shirt winning, fan-of-the-week earning, headphone and huge grandprize qualifying comments
~Matt
April 27th, 2008 at 7:05 am
Well one thing is for sure: The feelgood vibe of season 2 is gone forever!
Now, fo this episode. I give it 3.5 out of 5 stars. S definate step up from the last episode but still not as good as the first two.
My friend Theresa from Myspace made a good point: While I admire Lee for ‘Doing the right thing’ he IS becoming rather annoying as the Dudley Do Right of the Colonial Fleet. Not only that be he is showing a rather shameful lack of initiative. So much for that “Lead from the front” training that he got in the military.
Baltar: Wow has he grown as a character. I think he is finally developing his own sense of where he needs to go. He has finally settled on a course for the common good and not for the good of himself. However, the only thing more dangerous than a son who chooses to step from his father’s shadow is a religious zealot who’s bent on martyrdom as a form of self absolution because he usually doesn’t go down alone.
Nice to see the old Admiral back in rare form. He busted the Chief’s ass and put himin his place like any good Commander would. I think Adama has finally found himself again.
Roslin is rapidly going from one of my favorite characters to one of the most hated. She fought so hard for the common people in the beginning and now she is turning into a ruthless dictator. She claims that all of these changes are “for the good and safety of the people” but others in history have said the same thing. People like Julius Ceasar, Napolean and Adolf Hitler, to name a few. Remember folks :The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
The Final Four: Tory is DEFINATELY going to the dark side and I am LOVING IT! Who would have thought this NOBODY of a character would turn out so damn cool!? As for Tigh, I think he is FINALLY coming to grips with himself and the miserable bastard he really is. And it only took the anhiliation of his homeworlds, the destruction of his fleet and the death of his wife on a gods forsaken planet to do it! As for Tyrol: The rock of the ship has finally cracked. Dealing with the knowledge that he is a Cylon and that his wife “Committed Suicide” because of it is breaking him down. it’s only a matter of time until Tory works her claws into him…
The Demetrius: So far this plot thread SUCKS! So Starbuck is going on a lunatic romp across space. Nothing new there. They took all the characters that didn’t have anything to do with the A plot and threw them on a garbage scow to create the B plot. I certainly hope that things get better next week when Leoben arives. I hate to see good characters wasted on crappy story arcs.
FINAL: I am still of the opinion that this season is better by far than Season 3 (so far). I amliking where the story is going and how the characters are developing. Now it’s not just the search for Earth and the struggle to survive, it’s the quest to preserve what they were and the good that is within them. It’s a quest to NOT become like the things they have created.
Comments?
April 27th, 2008 at 9:43 am
“Another thing I noticed, is something that supports my theory of cylon projections. We know Three projects a Church, and Six projects a forest. My theory is that the Five project the real world. And in this episode, we see Tigh projecting Ellen, and Tyrol projecting Adama saying something that he did not say. And this also supports Baltar being a cylon, as he projects Six and himself”
this comment by adalla got me to thinking. Since nothing was ever mentioned about the closing scene of 4.03, where chief & adama were sitting in his quarters. Could adama be chiefs projection? Probably not the case, but just food for thought.
I really enjoyed this episode more than the first three, i feel the biggest “reveal” was seeing that the head cylons, or whatever they are, can actually interact with the physical world; when head six lifted up baltar. This can explain why baltar and kara both “project” people; it’s not because they’re cylons. Possibly either lords of kobol and baltar’s god, or both, manipulating the humans and cylons.
April 27th, 2008 at 9:49 am
“What other questions are you thinking of from the beginning, CB2001? These could be some T-shirt winning, fan-of-the-week earning, headphone and huge grandprize qualifying comments.”
Well, like I said before, it’s mostly small details kind of thing, mainly the kind of stuff story writers often pick up (or more like the stuff that may seem rather useless to others but spotted by me). One example is the start of the whole Helo/Athena relationship. Yes, I know “they were put together to see if love was what was missing in order to see if that is what the Cylons needed to have offspring” and I know it was a convenience with him being there and that they could exploit his relationship with Boomer, but WHY was Helo used? Think about this: The Cylons went through the trouble in planning the Farms, managing to get “hundreds, maybe thousands” of women in order to perform their breeding experiments. But back to the Farms. Now, where are human males? Why do we not see or hear about human men at these places for the human male/Cylon female crossbreeding experiments?
Also, farms are in controlled environments, low risk and everything. Now, look at what they were doing with Helo: the environment was uncontrolled. The Cylons wasn’t the only danger to him. He could have caught pneumonia or suffered even more extreme bodily harm (frak, he could have fallen off the ladder getting down from the roof he was sitting on in Season 1’s “Litmus” and got himself killed). Yes, Athena was with Helo, but even she can’t control him from slipping on a wet slope, falling down and breaking his leg. Now, if the Cylons “had a plan” with Helo, they would have captured him, made him think he was going to be a prisoner of war, then have Athena thrown into the same cell with the same cover story, that she came back to get him and somehow got caught in the process. But seeing that (A.) Helo didn’t plan on staying behind on Caprica until he spotted Baltar and gave up his spot and (B.) the Cylons tried to kill him for the first 5 days he was there (as indicated in the first episode of Season 1’s “33″), it suggests that Helo was not their primary candidate. So, we’ve reached the question again: Why was Helo chosen? And why didn’t the Cylons think out the human male portion of their Farm experiments?
Like I said, I have my own conclusion (which is that their original plan for Cylon female/human male crossbreeding, which may have involved an undercover Cylon agent whose sole purpose was to get a human male to fall in love with her, became compromised by either the human male discovering that she was a Cylon or was killed during the attacks. However, if the latter were true, than why didn’t the Cylon agent try to get him away and secured before the attacks?), and I know not many put as much thought into it (because it is not as noticable or as important). I don’t think that it is T-shirt/FotW/Headphone entry material, but it’s small details I’ve noticed and questions like this one that lead me to come up with the idea for my machinima comic book fan fiction series. I apologize for the extensive post.
April 27th, 2008 at 10:05 am
Why is Hera so special, WHy do the experiment? What makes Hera more important than any other Hybrid, even more important than baby Nicki? Simple Genetics? Myochondrial DNA!!!! Comes from the Mother, is the constant of the universe, IT exstends the Cylon DNA beyond the “pod”, The cyclon DNA know has a BLOOODLINE not just a replication of the 7 models!
April 27th, 2008 at 10:11 am
Why is Hera so special, WHy do the experiment? What makes Hera more important than any other Hybrid, even more important than baby Nicki? Simple Genetics? Myochondrial DNA!!!! Comes from the Mother, is the constant of the universe, IT exstends the Cylon DNA beyond the “pod”, The cyclon DNA know has a BLOODLINE not just a replication of the 7 models!
OOPS! Bad spelling sorry, forgot to spell check. I meant Mitochondrial DNA!
April 27th, 2008 at 11:16 am
I was trying to remember what the scene where Baltar and co. disrupt the temple reminded me of. It finally clicked. It’s the story of Jesus and the moneychangers from the Bible. Jesus entered Herod’s Temple, saw the organized religion as corrupt in nature, and then overturned tables, set livestock loose, etc. etc. Baltar grows more and more Christlike with each episode. If he hadn’t shaved the beard I’d be really freaked out.
Gaius Baltar= womanizing, supergenius saviour. Eat that Starbuck.
April 27th, 2008 at 11:48 am
Lori wrote:
“Why is Hera so special, WHy do the experiment? What makes Hera more important than any other Hybrid, even more important than baby Nicki? Simple Genetics? Myochondrial DNA!!!! Comes from the Mother, is the constant of the universe, IT exstends the Cylon DNA beyond the “pod”, The cyclon DNA know has a BLOODLINE not just a replication of the 7 models!”
Hera also is the only hybrid offspring that the cylons and Baltar (and Head Six) and everyone in the fleet knows about. Little Nicki is just a regular human toddler to everyone else other than the final 4/5ths, so maybe he’s important too (just not on anyone’s radar, and thus not a focus of anyone’s dreams/projections). But it is an interesting notion that mitochondrial DNA could actually play a role in determining a hybrid’s cylon-ness. Therefore, maybe Hera IS more important than Nicki for more than the fact that she’s the only known hybrid.
Also, in response to CB2001’s comments on males on the farm, there may be something to what you’re saying, but I’m disinclined to think so. Women are easier to dominate physically, and, well, they’re easier to rape, so it makes sense they’d take them to the farms. If a human male were on the farm, he’d likely be too busy trying to escape to tap that booty, whether or not he knows or suspects she’s a cylon rather than just another prisoner (or frakked-up cylon collaborator). It probably wouldn’t take long for the guy to figure out he’s part of some experiment, and thus be of little further use (beyond compost) once he does catch on. The women were strapped to gurneys and used as brood mares, but if the cylons strapped a guy to a gurney… well, I’ve never heard of anyone with a toaster fetish (ok, maybe the Japanese). Point is, it’s not that easy to push a slack rope thru a small hole, so the guy would have to be “into” the experience [vacuum hooked up to his "parts," or having some hot woman (either a collaborator or a cylon) using him for her own sadistic pleasure]. Even an s&m devotee would be taken aback considering the circumstances. It would probably be easier to find an intact sperm bank and break out the turkey basters. Regardless of whether they ever had any human males on the farm or if they just sacked a goo depository, they obviously found that free-range turkey basters were better than the factory-processed ones
{my apologies if any of this was too graphic}
April 27th, 2008 at 11:54 am
The preview for next week looks awesome! We’re finally gonna get into the meat of the Demetrius’ storyline. I’m wondering…as that the “actual” Leoben or is it gonna be just another copy that’s been stranded out there somewhere?
April 27th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
So many interesting comments on the site! Scifi boards can be mean, or they don’t talk about the topics. Anyway I have a few comments based on what I just read:
Baltar: I still think he’s a brilliant man, who is a narcissist, and only believes what he is saying because it gives him a purpose for the moment, and saves his skin. I just can’t see him as a powerful religious leader, even when likened to other crazy leaders like Hitler, and Stalin. But I will say that one of the most deadly leaders ever born, was Hitler, and his power grew out of the chaos of WWI; I would say that would be the only place where the danger would like w/Baltar. But he already did that on NC, when they first got there, right? I need to see more of the “new” Baltar to see him as a powerful figure.
Hera: that is such a good question about why is she so important! I think because she was the first one who is human/cylon? I don’t know…Maybe Helo is the final and 5th? I know people have said that RDM said no one in the Last Supper ad is it….. But he is much more honorable than Baltar that’s for sure….
As for Tigh projecting? I don’t think he was doing that at all, I think he was doing what a lot of grieving people do, see someone they want to see so desperately, they imagine them before them. It has nothing do with being cylon or human. It makes a lot of sense for Tigh when he is in the cell w/6, because he was there to find out how the cylons (now that he is one) got rid of the pain of guilt and loss. Ellen’s death is killing him still, and it turned out that pain doesn’t differentiate much between cylon and human emotions.
Tory: Wait till Tyrol finds out she knocked off Cally!
A
April 27th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
WHERE WAS THE CLIFFHANGER in this Episode. I missed the shock and awe… Good lines, though – Roslin’s visit to Baltar had some really good text.
Didn’ really do it for me this episode – still it had me on the edge of my seat all the same.
Stay frosty,
Ripley
April 27th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
Adam Says:
April 27th, 2008 at 11:54 am
The preview for next week looks awesome! We’re finally gonna get into the meat of the Demetrius’ storyline. I’m wondering…as that the “actual” Leoben or is it gonna be just another copy that’s been stranded out there somewhere?
I think it is the actual Leoben and I also think he is the “he” from the prophecy of the hybrid…. And amidst confusion, he will find her…
remember that when She asks the oracle about her dreams and is told that Leoben understands her better than she understands herself, and that he will show her her “destiny”.
April 27th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
whoever elicited Kara’s return is the one; any character who has not tread the valley of the shadow is not the one.
April 27th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
A very powerful episode full of gripping drama! You end up feeling for these characters even more so. Their motives, their emotions, their guilt… its all being brought to light in this episode. No real plot developments though. No questions answered, and no new questions have arisen.
Well one question actually…
We have been made aware that there is no optometrist in the colonial fleet, nor a tailor (Roslin stated this), but all of a sudden there is a wig shop? hehe
Cheers
K_T
April 27th, 2008 at 6:41 pm
I just thought of something else going along with the religious aspects of the show, especially Baltar. There are even more Jesus parallels involved.
Baltar’s teachings are a variation of the Cylon teachings. What became Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism. Aside from a few Jewish followers, Jesus’s teachings took hold among the polytheistic Roman empire who later made Christianity the official religion. Baltar has a Cylon semi-follower (Caprica Six) but his teachings have taken hold among the polytheistic fleet.
Judging at the rate at which the Baltar/Jesus parallels are progressing, look for Baltar’s faith to spread even further and threaten the established religion.
And on a separate note, Roslin’s fear mongering about Batlar and New Caprica are unfounded. Romo and Lee pointed out how dumb of an argument that is to use. All of Baltar’s actions were forced by the Cylons. The Cylons controlled New Caprica, not Baltar.
April 27th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
Right on Nick! I agree, Roslin is way off on Baltar, she is obsessed w/him and how dangerous he is, which I think remains to be seen. I believe that Lee will be the one who a)figures there’s something up w/our 3 cylons on board at the moment b)how dangerous Baltar really is. As you say, and I said, what happened on NC, no longer matters, Baltar never had any power once the cylons arrived, and I believe even if they hadn’t, he would have been impeached anyway. It’s water under the bridge now, and Lee is a pair of “fresh”eyes so to speak, w/a voice on the that shows the quorum, the other side, the one no one else has been able to voice, so that maybe some things can finally get done! Roslin’s obsession w/Baltar and fear of the cylons, well founded as we know, has blinded them to what they need to move ahead. Zarek had the foresight to see this, and knew Lee was just the man to do it. Now we need Lampkin back too!
A
April 27th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
OT: has any one ever noticed The Eye Of Jupiter and The BattleStar Galactica Symbols look very similar?
April 27th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
This is the best episode so far, IMO. Very dark, very well written and VERY well acted. The Lee/Roslin dynamic is fantastic, and I’m loving Lee’s new path. Tigh and Six struck me as a little odd at first, particularly with Ellen creeping in there, but I realized how brilliant it was when she started smacking him.
“Keep going.”
Poor Tigh! Oh, and I think the Chief’s behavior in the bar was propigated by his programming, so he could get off the ship (it didn’t seem believeable to me that he suddenly thought his wife was terrible; he appeared to love her and care about her when she was nearly shot by a firing squad….twice). Anyone who would go off like that on the old man is either crazy or running on programming xD. Of course, he could just be the former (tearing him up inside, just lashing out at everyone).
April 27th, 2008 at 9:48 pm
LIke I said, my noticing small details have brought up its fair share of questions that haven’t been answered, not enough to earn any recognition because it could be just me and my over active imagination. I’ve also noticed more smaller details that didn’t seem to fit (another example being the Logic Bomb computer virus from “Scattered”, “Valley of Darkness” and “Flight of the Phoenix”. I won’t go into detail about that question, but the Cliff’s Notes version of it is this: How is it that one computer virus developed to attack one type of computer system happens to be able to affect both the Cylon and human computer systems alike? It seems out of place the Cylons would develop a computer virus that could be used against themselves as well).
But of course, like I said, it could just be me. I could be wrong on my assumptions and be looking too much into small details. But then again, small details make up a bigger picture (look at “Sunday Afternoon on the Island of La Grande Jatte” by Georges Seurat as a good example, seeing that it’s composed of dots of paint).
April 27th, 2008 at 9:58 pm
In response to Brian: Or maybe he purposefully did it so that he could remove himself from being the Deck Chief. Think about it, remember in the episode “Litmus”? Adama told Roslin, “If he really wanted to take this ship down, he could.” I think that when it comes to the Deck Chief, he has more knowledge and access to materials that not many of his deckhands would (he had a key to the airlock, the same key used to space Jammer and Cally. He’s not just a “knuckledragger” but the head of the knuckledraggers). So, just to make sure he wasn’t able to get access to said material (if he had a key to the airlock, imagine what else he has access to that might be dangerous), he puts on the act so that he can get himself demoted. It’s a sure fire way of making sure that if his Cylon side has hidden programming, he wouldn’t be able to get access to anything that could severly damage or destroy the Galactica (hey, Boomer had access to the arms locker where she took the explosives her Cylon side planted in the Galactica’s water tank in “Water”).
April 28th, 2008 at 3:03 am
although it was sad to see that bar scene, i felt the chief needed to be demoted to get time to mourn and process everything he’s been through…he needs time to mourn, his careless mistake with the raptor proved that, along with him hallucinating some of Adama’s words…also, i agree with CB2001, it keeps tyrol from harming ppl since he won’t have the same position and clearance to screw around as a sleeper agent…i think tyrol thought of that as soon as he hallucinated what Adama said, which gave him more reason to let it all out…but i doubt any of the final 5 are sleeper agents with hidden protocols, even if they do, it seems their agenda is different from the anti-human Cavill group (aside from Tory)…gotta get ready for the day cuz its early, see you all later…
i have a question for all of you: would u follow starbuck with Head Leobin? (he claims he’s not Leobin, but i can’t figure what else to call him for now)…i think i would, since the only risk would be the garbage dump crew because the fleet is long gone elsewhere…is there some kind of vote poll option?
April 28th, 2008 at 3:28 am
To answer you question Tigh, it’s hard to say right now. According to the Hybrid in the “Razor” movie, Starbuck is a threat. But can we really trust the Hybrid and what he told Shaw? If there is one common fact about them, it is one that Starbuck has pointed out in the Season 2 episode, “Scattered”: They lie about everything (especially if its to humans). What makes Leoban even more dangerous is the fact that he mixes truth and lie to where we can’t tell which one is which. So, seeing that the Hybrid is a Cylon, he could have been lying to Kendra just to trip her up before dying.
As for any of the Head characters, I say they aren’t as reliable as we believe (especially Head Six, who apparently has had the most flaws in her predictions). But like I’ve stated before, I think that when it comes to Head Baltar and Head Six, they are both being controlled by the Count Iblis-like Being of Light, while the Head Leoban is actually controlled by one of the good (if the Beings of Light are involved, then its possible that they are still a force of good and Leoban in Kara’s head did not in any way seem threatening. In fact, I got the impression that he was really kind and was gentlely helping Kara within her headspace). So, would I trust Kara with the Head Leoban, still hard to say. It could be a blessing or a curse in disguise. But we won’t know until we get the answer. Would I trust Kara before, maybe. But for now, I’m 50/50.
April 28th, 2008 at 4:14 am
Hey guys, it’d be cool if the BSGCast were up around Tuesday again. It’s good to have some BSG halfway to the next episode. Plus, I’m eager to hear your guys’ thoughts on this particular episode!
April 28th, 2008 at 7:25 am
BTW, has anyone notice that you can see the orion-starconstellation in the background were the basestars was fighting?
i mean at the last episode. that would mean they are fighting in the solar-system!
sorry if someone else come up with this before and i don´t notice.
April 28th, 2008 at 7:31 am
Athena’s comments had me wondering: who exactly has the right perspective on things in the fleet? It’s becoming clear that Roslin is losing it, Adama is a military man and not a politician, Gaeta’s a psycho (sorry Matt, but he’s not the one), and Tory has become insane. Helo’s the most competant, but he’s off with Loonybuck. Tom Zarek has stated that he doesn’t want power, and would probably encounter some resistance. Lee has a strong moral outlook, but he’s really just an aim-and-shoot kind of guy when it comes to issues. Romo Lampkin is the smartest, but he’s a lawyer with no political aspirations.
In terms of leadership the Fleet is screwed unless Helo can get back.
Also, I still say the head-characters are the Metatron, the Voice of God (see Alan Rickman in Dogma). It fits everything Head-Six has been saying and works with all the characters.
April 28th, 2008 at 8:53 am
Give the Demetrius arc a chance. Yes it’s outside the norm, and yes it seems stupid to have all the pilots we know on it. But watch the space shots when they show the Demetrius. It’s just sort of floating, listless. While fleet shots show “foward” movement and purpose, the setup shots outside the Demetrius come from different angles and give the impression the ship is directionless. (Great effects work here.) I think the writers/producers know they are taking a risk with the storyline. Even the characters echo the storyline frustrations of the fans.
April 28th, 2008 at 10:38 am
For sure the best episode of Season 4 for me so far. The first three were great, but action, action, action, and this one provided much-needed character development – reactions to all the action.
1) Why isn’t Hera’s blood being suggested to treat Roslin again? Is Hera with her parents? I question this because Saul said to Six ‘Your request to see Hera has been denied.”
2) Will Tyrol offer up Nicky’s blood to save the President, admiting Tyrol’s a cylon or saying Cally was a cylon? Just a thought. Maybe he’d do it to get something he wants.
2) Tyrol can’t go to cylon meetings anymore now that he’s leaving Galactica, which may be good or bad for his unstable mind.
He and Tighe and Tory (less so Anders) are like new children now, like the original 7 are, with new identities to integrate and a lot of growing up to do. Some in this situation, like children, are bullies and misuse their strength etc. (Tory) or want to ask questions a lot (Tighe), or react immaturely (Tyrol).
He settled for Cally…well, that’s fine and all, mean to say, but honest. But he acts like he’s a real catch or something. NOT!
3) The Quorum are a bunch of nutty power hungry idiots, Lee included. If you don’t like Roslin’s proposal to limit size of public assembly to protect Baltar’s group, where’s your suggestion? Where are your ideas?
This makes Lee’s desire to be there very shallow. Are you there to throw your weight around and look tough, or are you there to solve problems facing the fleet? For him and the rest, it’s the former and they make me sick.
4) Some of you are assuming that Revelations will involve the final cylon, Starbuck etc. I think you can count on it not being about that, but about some or all of the four being revealed (through D’Anna coming back) or through themselves coming forward.
5) Final cylon is Adama.
6) Watch for the president to ‘box’ Tory after she learns Tory is part of Baltar’s cult. Will get nasty.
Tootie
April 28th, 2008 at 11:00 am
People keep mentioning Head 6 and Head Baltar as manifestations of a Count Iblis-like being. In “Six of One” Head Baltar implied that they aren’t the same (or else deftly skirted the question when Baltar asked him straight-out). I wonder if it’s more like having an angel on one shoulder and a devil on the other. I’m not sure yet which one would be which, but Head Baltar pointed out that Tory is “special” and “fragile,” someone Baltar should pay attention to. And it was Tory that put the notion of everyone being perfect in Baltar’s mind, a notion which looks to be a major tenet of Baltar’s preachings. Something to consider perhaps.
CB2001 Says:
April 27th, 2008 at 9:48 pm
“LIke I said, my noticing small details have brought up its fair share of questions that haven’t been answered, not enough to earn any recognition because it could be just me and my over active imagination. I’ve also noticed more smaller details that didn’t seem to fit (another example being the Logic Bomb computer virus from “Scattered”, “Valley of Darkness” and “Flight of the Phoenix”. I won’t go into detail about that question, but the Cliff’s Notes version of it is this: How is it that one computer virus developed to attack one type of computer system happens to be able to affect both the Cylon and human computer systems alike? It seems out of place the Cylons would develop a computer virus that could be used against themselves as well).”
While I may not necessarily agree with some of your theories, I appreciate the questions that you raise with your observations, so please keep ‘em coming. With regards to the logic bomb, it seems to have served as a bridge for communications between the cylons and the Galactica systems. When the raiders were staging for an attack on the Galactica, they were waiting for the signal from Galactica’s computers that would indicate that she was defenseless. Before that happened, Athena jacked herself in and accessed the system directly, and was thusly able to send the “sleep” message over the “communication-bridge” that knocked the raiders out. Presumably Gaeta and Athena would have been able to alter the virus to some extent for other tactical purposes. That’s my two pence.
As for trusting what the Hybrid told Shaw, the Hybrid was able to jam her signal at will, and did so when she tried to warn Apollo about Starbuck. It doesn’t make sense to lie to her and then not allow her to spread the lie. He was just letting her in on the secret before she destroyed them, knowing that it wouldn’t matter if he told her because they were both about to die.
April 28th, 2008 at 11:21 am
I wikied RDM’s system of military ranking (was actually looking for something else) and have come to realize that Adama knocked Tyrol down 3 or 4 ranks (depending on whether Tyrol was a Chief or Master Chief). It’s good to see Adama is still willing to lay down some serious discipline, but that was hella harsh, if well deserved. I think Tyrol isn’t just looking to distance himself from being able to sabotage the Galactica; I think he mainly is lost in self-loathing and self-doubt, and he felt he needed to lash out at someone. It seemed like a cry for help, and when Adama smacked him down you could see Tyrol coming to the realization that he made things worse, that he lost another bit of what made him who he was before. Tyrol is drowning in the realization that he’s a cylon because it turned his universe upside down and he blames himself for everything that’s going wrong (Callandra’s apparent suicide, the raptor crash, and maybe a host of other things that happened before the revelation, including Boomer’s acts of sabotage). If it weren’t for endangering the other 3, I think he might confess to Adama that he’s a cylon traitor (whether he’s a traitor or not) just to have an end to it all. Sad.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
librlmeh- Thanks. But when it comes to that computer virus, Adama acknowledges that it was a virus that was sent, not a “sleep mode” signal. Plus, if you notice, after the virus was sent, the Raiders lost their propulsion, but they didn’t lose their steering (which suggests that they were still awake when the Vipers). You can see that some of them actually veered off into one another and attempted not to crash into one another. This suggests that the Logic Bomb that was used on Galactica may have not been developed by the Cylons (it may have been appeared to be encoded with the Cylon programming language, but it may have been a programming language that looks rather similar to it, but is encoded to work with both Cylon and human computer systems).
But like I said, I may be reading too much into some of them.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
Still no video? COME ON ALREADY !
The BSG casts have been great and i just found out about this site a week ago.
April 28th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
Adama had no choice but to take away Tyrol’s position as a non-commissioned officer, after Tyrol said in front of everyone that that’s what Adama should do, and with the raptor accident just occuring. The only thing I believe Adama can’t do is remove him completely from the military; how ever many ranks he demotes someone is his choice.
Tyrol desiring to be air-locked may happen – interesting thought. Would open up the possibility of Nicky’s blood being used to save Roslin (I am a sucker for a happy ending…)
If the four die, do they appear on a basestar or not? I think not, as there is no bodies waiting for them. I think they die.
Maybe they have other abilities though, like they are tougher to kill or regenerate. They are not the same as the seven, that’s for sure.
Tootie
April 28th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
I need my BSG cast or I’ll go mad. I can’t stand it anymore, please Matt & Nat help me maintain my sanityyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!
April 28th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
“Still no video? COME ON ALREADY !” – Oksoyep
I dont think there is a need to shout or order people around. I’m positive that Matt and Nat are working on it and doing their very best to get it published. Let’s cut them some slack shall we?
As for the Final Five, I’d think they dont have bodies waiting for them on the Ressurection ship or on any Base Star. They probably do not ressurect at all, and I bet they are some sort of human biological clones with some synthetically created enhancements perhaps (such as Anders’ red eye long range communication with the Raider, cleary goes beyond “human” capability).
And IF they do ressurect, I bet it’s as another person entirely, not in the same body. For example, I think Hera could be the re-incarnation of Kendra Shaw (the fifth cylon?
).
I doubt that the Final FIve will go unscratched the rest of the season. I bet at least one of them will most certainly die at some point, and i’m very interested to know if they ever come back, and if so, in what form and how
Now IF Starbuck turns out to be the 5th (which I seriously doubt, and I think she herself said she wasnt one, but then, she has been known to lie about plot things and spoilers) then she’s be the first one we’ve sen resurrect, though we have not quite seen how, it’d prove somewhat that the Final Five can ressurect.
But I bet the Final Five are less machine and more human than any other Cylon, and for that reason, I bet they do not ressurect in the same body, but as I said, rather their DNA randomly gets matched in another person.
I just hope that whenever we do get these things explained to us, they are not too far fetched. But knowing the quality of work from the crew of BSG from the past 3 seasons, I think we can be assured that Season 4 is light years ahead of any of our best theories, and that we’ll keep getting awed.
~Adalla
April 28th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
(Spoilers) Hmm i enjoy the Cylon based storyline the best, i for one did not enjoy this episode as much purely because of this. I’m also looking forward to the progression of the Starbuck and the “Poo Ship”, that seems to me that its going to going to merge with the cylon story line. We can see this by clip with Starbuck next to the hybrid, also Athena and Helo can be seen talking a six on a basestar, possible Caprica-Six on a picture on the Sci-Fi forum, not to mention the tiny clip of Roslin on there too…
Anyway the one this that made this episode Very cool (and VERY humorous) was when Head Six literally picks Baltar up and basically uses his a dummy to try and gain entrance to the Cults HQ. Adding further Evidence to My Head-Starbuck Theory….*Creepy Music*
April 28th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
Give the Demetrius arc a chance. Yes it’s outside the norm, and yes it seems stupid to have all the pilots we know on it.
But that’s a simple story-telling reality — I don’t see where there’s the time or space to establish any new characters. And I very much doubt anyone is on the Demetrius so the actors stop bugging RDM for more screen time. What I love (and sometimes hate) about BSG is that the show assumes its audience has an attention span longer that 2.4 seconds.
BTW, I wouldn’t be making too many assumptions about anyone’s Cylonicity (not a real word, I know) because of publicity photos that (might) show them on a basestar. With a full-blown Cylon civil war in progress, who wants to bet the last bottle of ambrosia in the ‘verse that Natalie and her faction are going to be making some new friends (sorta), and lifting the stakes in their search for the Final Five… And since BSG is the kind of show where nobody keeps a secret for long, it’s only a matter of time before they find out that Roslin, Caprica Six and Athena have more in common than a stubborn streak.
April 28th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
And IF they do ressurect, I bet it’s as another person entirely, not in the same body. For example, I think Hera could be the re-incarnation of Kendra Shaw (the fifth cylon?
). -Adalla
I don’t think so. Hera was conceived in the first season, and if my memory of when Razor was set, was born before Shaw died.
April 28th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
BTW, I just had a frak me moment about Roslin’s wig — is it just me, or was that new ‘do deliberately chosen to make her look a LOT like Helena Cain (my favourite homicidal control freak ever)?
April 28th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
“How is it that one computer virus developed to attack one type of computer system happens to be able to affect both the Cylon and human computer systems alike? It seems out of place the Cylons would develop a computer virus that could be used against themselves as well).”
well as long as there is a stable connection between the two computer systems, can’t either system compromise the other? as long as they have the right tools like Athena has…anyways, just a guess, but i think maybe the counter-virus was a built-in safeguard for the skinjobs in case the raiders ever decided to rebell against them?…maybe the skinjobs added that vulnerability in the raiders to shut them down if and when necessary…after all, we all know Cavill is a control freak, given his tendency to lobotomize, box, and murder other cylons without any sign of hesitation or remorse…anyways, i love these chats, can’t wait for another BSGCast! keep up the good work folks!
April 28th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
Maybe they made the wig from the shaved off hair of Cain’s corpse.
Ok that was just morbid. I’m sorry.
April 28th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
These first episodes are like a long, extended exposition. The writers are trying to establish a number of issues that will be further explored as we make our way through the last season. I feel when I’m watching these last episodes that I’m sitting on the edge of my seat, waiting for something to happen, but that’s the point of this exposition. We’re getting warmed up for things to really get all frakked up, but first there’s a lot of technical buisness to get through before we can reach the “whoa” episodes and cliffhangers. I think that Cally’s death, Tory’s magnificent bitch slap, Chief’s steady progression into going postal, Kara’s lost sense of reality, and Baltar’s new Christ status are just this season getting started. What is reality? What is reality in the world of BSG? Everyone’s sense of reality is becoming perverted and it feels as though the fabric of the universe itself is being torn apart as each of these characters deal with the complexity of their reality.
In BSG’s world hell is truly other people be they human or Cylon. Isn’t it great?
April 28th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Tigh- Not really. The Cylons and Humans computers are as different from each other in programming as well as hardware, it’s like the Mac and PCs in our society, the programming isn’t the same. You can’t run a Macintosh program on a PC unless you have a Macintosh emluator. The same is true about the reverse. Unless the program is encoded for the computer, there’s no way for a PC program to run on a Mac other than the use of an emulator (for example, the recent Mac/PC commericals have it where Windows Office being available on Mac now. In order for that to occur, they’d have to re-encode the program over from the original PC encoding to the Mac. Why do you think there are games released for computer systems have two versions, one for Mac and one for PC?). The same is true about Linux and Windows programming. Both Linux and Windows are two seperate O/S programs, they both run on PCs, but they both run programs that are encoded for them. So, if the Cylons programmed a Logic Bomb, they’d have to program it for it to function within the human computer systems (much like how Six had to program the backdoor into Baltar’s security program. She would have to use the same programming language).
Which brings me around to my theory, that somehow, the virus wasn’t created by the Cylons and that it was somehow encoded to be universal (I’ve never heard of it in real life, but seeing that this is a fictional work, the same rules don’t necessarily have to apply), which suggests that maybe the Cylons have a human prisoner with advanced computer skills that exceeds that might even exceeds Baltar’s knowledge on computer programming (in a deleted in in one of the Season 3 episodes, Doral told Baltar that he wasn’t the only human on the Basestar he was on, and that they “had their uses”. So, the theory is possible).
April 28th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
Hi all,
I completely agree on the Tyrol self-loathing problem, which began when he found out that Boomer was a cylon. He could not believe that the love of his life, was a cylon and he never knew. Plus, we have Cally, who loves him, who he probably always had an inkling that she did, forgiving him after he beat the crap out of her. But I think that they could have been happy together longer, because the memory he had was very special and intimate and had more to do w/her just being pregnant. I think that he was finally becoming happy, and really was in love w/Cally. All of those things he said about Cally, had more to do with him saying awful untrue thoughts, almost to be mean about it; and almost as if that proved he was a horrible mean human/cylon whatever. It would make up for the fact that (he thinks) Cally killed herself because he was a cylon, and their son was only 1/2 human. The saddest moment was when he hears Adama saying, what he hears in his heart and head, those horrible words, and that was when the his rage began to take flight so to speak. I find it so interesting how he and Tigh both see their worse fears via daymares about Adama; Tyrol’s above, and Tigh shooting him in the head.
HOWEVER, if there’s a member of our little foursome who’s feeling the need to do some confessing, it’s our boy Anders. He is reacting a little differently to his situation than the others. His worse fear is that Starbuck will find out who he is, and kill him, and look at him like garbage and on the other side of the coin, is the fantasy that he will finally be able to confess who he is to Starbuck, and wahoo! she’ll be a cylon too, and than they will live happily ever after, FOREVER. This is why he was looking at her at the end of the episode, desperately hoping that she’s a cylon too. You may laugh, but it makes sense w/Anders’ character. He is a simple guy: sports star, leader, hero, brave, fights for the good of humanity. He doesn’t really see the world much beyond that and that the cylons are the enemy and he needed to fight them. However, the cylon realization, has cause him probs like anyone else, so we’ll see.
We also have Tory who thinks she’s becoming god-like, when it’s only a)delusional to think so, (and human, Hitler, Sadam Hussein anyone?) b) is just a coping tool for her. A coping tool that has made her dangerous, and desperate to keep their secret. Then we have Tigh, going to see 6, because he figures that since she’s a cylon, well, she can tell him how to stop feeling the pain and guilt of Ellen’s death. He thinks that because he’s a cylon now, 6 will have some magical way of getting rid of those feelings because she’s a machine. Well it seems that 6 was not really having much luck doing that either.
So, the one outrageous thing I can say is that: I would not be surprised if Tory decided they need to kill Tyrol because he’s become a loose cannon. I believe she’d kill them all if it would keep her secret.
Thoughts?
A
April 28th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
I don’t know if this has been mentioned. Sorry if it has…
Why didn’t Six detect Tigh as a Cylon? She told The President that she feels them and they are close. She was in direct physical contact with Tigh. I find that strange…..a weakness in the writting perhaps? Was she just toying with the President?
Got to love the fact that after she beat the crap out of Tigh she said she made a mistake and that it was not what he needed….lol
She eluded to he needed a frak (the good frak, wink wink).
April 28th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
The reason why Six didn’t detect Tigh as a Cylon is because the Cylons can’t detect the Final Five like they can the other models (like how D’anna recognized Athena in the “Exodus” two-parter). It may have been a part of the Final Five’s design to not have that detection method (Six may have been able to feel the Final Five, but she probably can’t detect who the Final Five are).
April 28th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Someone made a good point earlier that the Final Four of Five Cylons are like children maturing with the realization of who they are. I was thinking about that and it looks like each Cylon represents a different reaction.
Tory is self-confidence. She’s growing insane with her belief that she is perfect and better than everyone else.
Tyrol is self-destruction. He’s destroying his memories of his wife, drinking himself to death, and getting demoted.
Tigh is self-doubt. His plain black and white view of the world has been shattered by his Cylonization (I guess that’s the right word…). Now he’s questioning who he is and what life means.
Anders, interestingly enough, is self-reliance. He’s not arrogant, but he’s taking Tigh’s Crossroads advice to heart and (aside from fears of Starbuck offing him) is continuing to live on as he is. As he told Starbuck “[his marriage] is real.” The tattoos of their marriage are real. He’s staying the man he is.
Which makes one wonder, what will the Final Cylon represent? It’s not Baltar (Christ), and it’s not Starbuck (antichrist), so they’re out the window, IMHO. Self-improvement? Hmm…
April 28th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
Why didn’t Six detect Tigh as a Cylon? She told The President that she feels them and they are close. She was in direct physical contact with Tigh. I find that strange…..a weakness in the writting perhaps?
Nope — in real space, if Cap-Six (or any of the Cylon) could identify any of the Final Five that easily there’s not really story here. Lets go all the way back to the Original Recipie Hybrid in Razor: “I can see them all. The seven now six self-described machines, machines who believe themselves without sin. But in time, it is sin that will consume them. They will know enmity, bitterness, the wrenching agony of the one splintering into the many….”
The thing about splinters is that they’re small and jagged; and they don’t come out of the body neatly. I just don’t think Cap-Six is particularly comfortable even thinking about the Final Five, and while she’s aware on some subconscious level that they’re in the Fleet, she doesn’t have some infallible Final Five detector. Anyway, I don’t know if I’d much like to acknowledge that this bitter, fraked-up, wife-killing drunk is any kind of brethren — let alone one of the glorious Final Five who will by my salvation.
April 28th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
chill everbody, BSG cast will be on soon. if not we’ll send a cylon logic bomb or down load into the computer or something. so just chill, remember matt is the one true god and vengence could be his. lolololololol
April 28th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
I really liked this episode. It was so weird to see Baltar being picked up and forced to walk by “nothing”. I really liked the Tigh/Six interactions. The music playing in the background during their talks was GREAT! The revised Adama/Roslin theme was also very fun.
Something had been picking at me since I saw the episode. During the political debate on the colonial one, some of the representatives talked about how the provision against Baltar and his sect could be used against other smaller ones. The two women there spoke of Mithras. That many among the Geminese had similar beliefs as Baltar’s group. That name sounded familiar. I just realized where I heard that. A while back, I watched a History Channel (maybe TLC) about other religions similar to Christianity. One of these was a group who believed in Mithras. If I remember it correctly, the program said that many, if not all, of the major aspects about the life of Jesus was similar to Mithras. The whole virgin birth on the Dec. 25, had 12 disciples, did the whole bread/ body and blood/wine thing, performed lots of healing and miracles. The thing about the Mithras belief was that it was practiced long before the time of Jesus. I was just seeing the parallel between that and Baltar.
Maybe this points that Galactica is our past. I know there has been the theory that Galactica = Atlantis group. This kinda helps that along. to me anyway. They land, settle, and tell their own stories. Except we take it as myth and metaphor. I dont know. I could just be reaching here. ha.
April 28th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
JJ, Mithraism was indeed mentioned by the Quarom. But here’s the interesting thing, Mithraism was a religion found in the Roman Empire, but not the state sponsored Greco-Roman faith (Jupiter, Saturn, Mars, etc.). When Christianity was made the official religion by Emperor Theodyssius (I’m sure I butchered the spelling), Mithraism was outlawed. Batlar’s Christianity like movement is on the rise. It looks like it will soon become a major faith in the fleet, and possibly will become the established one. Look for Mithraism to get the boot soon.
The Baltar/Jesus parallels are incredibly deep and strong.
April 28th, 2008 at 5:22 pm
How about this for small details: When Starbuck was being secured by the Marines after confronting the President, she screams out “Matthias” (or something similar to it, but I’m sure that the pronounciation was “Ma-Thigh-Us”, though the spelling I used may have been wrong). From what I can find about the name itself, the closest thing I could find that remotely ties into the show is a religious detail, Saint Matthias (an Apostle chosen by the remaining eleven apostles to replace Judas Iscariot). Don’t know if that has anything to do with the religious theme going on with the show right now, maybe one of the marines was named Matthias and I didn’t even know it.
April 28th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
Matthias was the female squad leader of the marines that stormed the room.
April 28th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
Maybe this points that Galactica is our past.
Meh… I’m not so sure about that. It might be nothing more than re-enforcement of the already established parallel with real world religion — it’s very easy to talk about any faith tradition as a homogeneous mass when they’re in fact full of divergences in doctrine, practice and so forth. It’s already been established that the Colonials range from outright atheists — I think it’s pretty strongly implied that the Old Man is one –, to those (like the Geminese and Saggiterons) are more fundamentalist, for want of a better word. Considering the speed with which Sarah Porter accepted that Laura Roslin was the ‘dying leader’ foretold by Pythia, I wouldn’t be surprised if Mithraism was the followers of another minor prophet whose, shall we say, “practices” were not suitable for a family congregation.
And I don’t know if this constitutes spoilage for ‘Caprica’ (apologies if so), but I’ve read speculation that one core character will be a closet monotheist. Somehow, I don’t think the Twelve Colonies were as big on religious freedom as we’d like to believe.
April 28th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
librlmeh- Thanks. I wasn’t aware that was the name of the female squad leader was Matthias. But still, it seems out of place. I mean, are we sure that she is called Matthias? I mean, I remember seeing her in several other episodes somewhere, but I don’t recall her being referred to by name before.
April 28th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
wow 100 comments even before the cast is up! lol thats awesome
April 28th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
would say that the final 5 are the creators and programmers of the other 7 organic models. Just before d’anna was boxed she said “It’s not a flaw to question our purpose is it, the one who programmed the way we think and why?” She was speaking in reference to the final five. After that she said, “There are 5 other Cylons brother. I saw them. One day your going to see them too. One day.”
So we at least know that the final 5 are the creators or at least the programmers of the other 7 models. That being said… what exactly are the final 5, besides being Cylons, if that’s indeed what they are… and who made them into cylons..? Why did they program the other models not to think about them? And who taught the 7 models about the one god? Where did they learn this? I won’t go into the Greek/roman god pantheon relation to the Cylon models and humans because everyone is already theorizing about that. But I will say that they are going heavily into higher self belief systems. That who we are exists on many planes at once.
The final 5 are in the opera house on Kobol in that other dimension they go to when they dream. But the final 5 in the physical world (at least the 4) were unaware of who they really are in the higher planes and have no conscious knowledge of this. They haven’t made that connection to their higher selves yet. But they are real, and obviously have a plan or they wouldn’t have brought the president, 6, baltar, Athena and Hera to the opera house.
I also believe that Head 6, Head Baltar and Head Leoben are actually 6, baltar and Leoben on a higher plane of existence. Many people believe angels are actually a part of who we are. They are us. We each have 2 that are our masculine and feminine side. In BSG the higher selves and angels of others are helping each other.
Ok… this is a wild theory that I haven’t totally thought through. If angels are really us, then on a higher plane, Baltar and 6 are one, and Starbuck and Leoben are one. They could be the masculine feminine versions of each other. Leoben said to Starbuck in that prison on New Caprica that he’d seen her say she loved him. Maybe he has a head Starbuck we don’t know about and that’s why he’s doing all the fu***d up stuff he does. Perhaps he has a Starbuck encouraging him to do it. Either that or he’s misunderstanding the message.
As for biblical relations, other than the fore mentioned judeo Christian Jesus references to Baltar etc… I did notice Adama = Adam, Admiral Cain = Cain
I notice that people keep saying that the final Cylon could be one of the Adama’s because of what Leoben said to Laura. But the cylons weren’t allowed to think about the final 5 (at least not back then) and even if he could, NONE of the 7 cylons models know who the final 5 are except for D’anna which means Leoben was just screwing with Laura. He doesn’t know who the 5th is.
I still think the 12 around 1 theory makes a lot of sense. If the 12 cylons for example represent the 12 chakra’s and the 13′th is above the head in the aura, and is technically a higher level of consciousness. Then perhaps the 13th colony (earth) that is about to move into the 5th world (a higher plane of existence) is represented by the hybrids (technically the 13th cylon). Either the hybrids or Baltar. Baltar may be the one who is preparing them to enter the higher level of consciousness that exists on earth. He will lead the next generation of gods children or as Caprica said it “You are the guardian and protector of the next generation of gods children.” Which in ancient texts are referred to as the children of light… Is it any wonder the final 5 appear at beings robed in light.
April 28th, 2008 at 8:30 pm
I would say LOL Miss one word and the whole sentence is thrown off. It would be nice if we could edit our posts… just encase.
April 28th, 2008 at 9:15 pm
Did anyone else notice the last scene with Starbuck…under her left hand was Aurora “the goddess of the dawn” makes me go hummmmm…
April 28th, 2008 at 9:16 pm
Some Christian holidays coincide with ancient pagan holidays. For example, Jesus Christ wasn’t born on the 25th of December. That date was chosen to replace the celebration of Mithras. It also coincided with the ancient Roman Saturnal celebrations, which took place at the end of December. Another example is Halloween (All Hallowed Eve), which was a Celtic celebration (although it’s not a Christian Holiday per say). The organizational structure of the Roman Catholic Church is based on the administrative structure of the late Roman Empire. Ancient history holds a wealth of information that creators like Ronald D. Moore can readily access. No wonder many historical references show up in Battlestar Galactica and in series like Stargate. Greek, Roman, Egyptian, Sumerian, Celt, and what have you mythologies can be made to fit the future, or the present. But people like Mr. Moore have an uncanny ability of making the past look brand new. If you want to know the future of Battlestar Galactica, you will probably find the answer in the past.
April 28th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
hey all, did anyone notice how when Lee walked up to the guards, he was bathed in that same white light that was shining upon 6 as she gazed at Tory and listed to Baltar. I like it! very interesting….
A
April 28th, 2008 at 9:44 pm
Here’s a link to the minor character Wiki page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minor_characters_in_Battlestar_Galactica_%28re-imagining%29#Erin_Mathias
It says Erin Mathias is a gunny sergeant originally from the Pegasus, was the explosives expert on the basestar mission from Razor, was on the team that boarded the Lion’sHead basestar, and also the team securing the Temple of Five. The entry hasn’t yet been updated to reflect that she has, in fact, finally gotten to speak on camera.
This page also lists the original Pegasus CAG as Capt. Cole “Stinger” Taylor rather than Narcho, as someone had previously mentioned in this thread.
April 28th, 2008 at 10:18 pm
“So we at least know that the final 5 are the creators or at least the programmers of the other 7 models.”
ur taking d’anna’s words too literal and in the wrong context…
“Leobin said to Starbuck in that prison on New Caprica that he’d seen her say she loved him.”
yeah, and she did, to stall right before she killed him for the last time on new caprica before escaping…Leobin’s visions, like himself, mixes lies with the truth…but i do suspect Leobin might have a Head Starbuck…anyways, i’ve posted entirely too many times for this episode hehe…gotta go, see yall next episode…
April 28th, 2008 at 10:33 pm
Part of why I was saying Leoben said he saw starbuck say she loved him was because of the promo’s for next this weeks episode. Leoben appears on the demetrius. Starbuck actually wants to keep him on board… She hated him with a passion but now she’s working with him to find earth. I know she still hates him but this may be the beginning of a realtionship that may have been prophecied about. “and in the midst of confusion he will find her. Enemies brought together by impossible longing. Enemies now joined as one. The way forward at once unthinkable, yet inevitable.” Perhaps in some future episode she will say I love you to head leoben. Regular leoben may have seen this in a vision and misunderstood it. Or mistaken her saying it on new caprica as some other future event.
April 28th, 2008 at 10:34 pm
Here is one of the promo’s I was talking about. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cC6FJ5NSnxA
April 28th, 2008 at 11:25 pm
i know about the promo, i saw it when it aired with the previous episode…wasn’t trying to disprove what u said about Leobin, i agree with some of ur thoughts…just pointing out she already technically told Leobin she loved him, which may or may not be one of the visions he mentioned
…i promise this is my last post for this episode haha, new to BSGCast & i’m addicted to this site now…
anyways, watched all the Loyalist/Deserter, Diplomat/Dictator, Agitator/Savior, etc. promos when they came out, but BSGCast just reminded me of it in the previous VID…so in case yall are addicts like me, snatching up every promo etc. u can find, the below 2 youtube users always seem to have nearly every promo available…this insomniac needs sleep, see yall later…
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=indysid&p=r
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=SevorTB&p=r
April 29th, 2008 at 12:12 am
OK, this post has nothing to do with Season 4; please don’t stand me up against the bulkhead. I just found this cartoon of Galactica characters drawn in the style of the Simpsons and thought it worth sharing. Hope you get a chuckle out of it
http://projectkooky.com/dylan/art/illo/content/html/battlestar.html
April 29th, 2008 at 1:55 am
Yeah, I’ve seen them before. Pretty funny.
Also, this may not be related to Season 4, but this Photobucket link is to pictures of my machinima comic book fan fic series in progress, “Battlestar Galactica: Odyssey” (or “Battlestar Galactica: Born to Run”, still have decided which one to go with). It includes two pages from the test comic I created not too long ago (the test comic was a means of testing out the Comic Book Creator program by Planetwide Games that I’m using to create the comics). The test comic may not be included as a part of the canon for the comic series (seeing that I suspect that Roslin may be a Cylon). Anyways, here’s the link. Hope you guys like the link (and disregard that bridge design, seeing that I’ll be using “Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas” to make some of the establishing shots and I’ll have to rework the lot design to match).
http://s134.photobucket.com/albums/q94/codebreaker2001/BSGBTR/
April 29th, 2008 at 8:17 am
Starbuck may “hate” Leoben but I know from personal experience there is a very fine line between love and hate.
April 29th, 2008 at 8:28 am
Okay; has anyone else noticed a similarity between Boomer and Tyrol?? When she thought she could be a Cylon and he finds out they both lost it a bit. It’s hard to see the heart of the Galactica so broken. And hmmm hey, who’s going to be Chief now??? Yes, I understand why Adama did it, Chief should have just shut up, but there’s less then 40k people around. You also have to start to think about replacements. And well, Tigh’s done just as much and/or more without getting demoted, so does this mean that Adama is showing favortism, or just doesn’t like what colony Chief is from?
I think Roslin’s best two scenes here were when she’s telling Adama how she liked the service for Cally, and she wants him to know what she likes. In other words, this is my funeral arrangement. I also loved her in the jail cell with Baltar, admitting to him that she is dying, slipping away. Beautifully done. The whole limitting of groups, hmmm if Baltar is really a Jesus figure, and I think that he is, what did the Romans do when Jesus started to preach? Try to limit his reach.
I thought the Tight/Six/Ellen was done lovely. Here is a man, clearly still in deep grieving for his wife, and now he doen’t know who he is, and is looking to the enemy for some information and has to deal with what he has done. He needs an EMMY!!! We need to start a campaign now for Hogan.
Someone said earlier with Roslin that the road to hell is pave with good intentions, but I think we need to remind Lee that. Yes, he is the goody goody of the show, but maybe, just maybe the art of war is choosing not the good, or righteous thing to do, but which choice sucks the least. Is his airing out of dirty laundry really going to help the fleet or help to destroy it?
Baltar Baltar Baltar.. The instrument of God, and I think this week he really was. First off, we now see that Head Six isn’t just in his head, but can move things, like, oh I don’t know, Baltar! That was awesome. I wonder, if she knows who is the final five, the looks she gave Tori just kinda made me think a big old YES to that. And I did love his speech. And to me it was very Jesus like. The whole moving from Judaism with the Torrah (sp) and the Old Testament, where the Cyclons are, worried about retribution from God, to Baltar saying that God loves us, and we are perfect. More towards Christianity.
Starbuck??? Who knows what the frak is going on there. Is she evil? I say yes she is. But I guess next week we’ll find out. But the promo is great. The cyclons understand about Earth. Hmm wonder why that is?????
April 29th, 2008 at 11:05 am
Some very good theories and clue-hunting that I’d like to share. An article I came across yesterday.
Click Here
Some very interesting points the guy makes
I think it is very possible that all the “head” characters are Beings of Light, because we know RDM actually considered seriously introducing Beings of Light and even Count Iblis, but the other writers did not like it. But I bet the thought has not been forgotten by RDM.
~Adalla
April 29th, 2008 at 11:45 am
Top 10 Reasons to Watch this Season’s BSGcasts!!!!!!
It is the best BSG publicity on the web
check it out on itunes
April 29th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
I loved this ep. I think it was the best all season.
Cally’s memorial service:
Great opening scean, I loved the Adama Roslin beat, “I want you to know what I like” and I loved the fact that the person running the memorial service was a women, that was neat consitering that a lot of churchs in America don’t have that.
Balter the Pimp: Wow, he got a bit upset when he trashed that service…. I loved what he was telling his “girly groupy sex whatevers” that was funny. I loved Balter today!
Roslin: Yeah back to normal! She seemed more Roslin this week.
Adama: Wet nurse, well, kinda true. It’s cute he reads to Roslin though.
Sorry I had to sum it up today, some of us have a boat load homework!
April 29th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
The more I watch this episode the more I think it may be one of the best written things I have ever seen on TV. I actually shed a tear or two. The scene where Adama was reading the” part he hasn’t read yet” to Roslin and then closes the book when he gets to that part and obviously recites it from memory killed me. The scenes that mirrored other scenes- same themes, different characters were wonderful. The shot to Kara during Baltar’s whole ” And in knowing your own truth you will be able to see the truth about others etc….”. The heartbreaking terrifying scene with Tyrol and Adama in the bar , the increasingly claustrophobic feeling conveyed on both the Galactica and the Demetrious ( sp?) , Roslin’s scene with Baltar…etc. etc. etc. This is damned good writing. It doesn’t get much better than this on TV. Maybe on The Wire, or certain episodes of The Sopranos or Dexter but nothing like this on basic cable . This is amazing. Kudos all around to the writers and Eddie Olmos’ gorgeous direction. I love this show.
April 29th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
Wow, this episode was brilliant! The season keeps getting better and better. I really loved everything this time…well, I also did in The Ties That Bind, but this time it was better connected and worked as a whole… plus, my favourite character BALTAR being back big time, my other favourite character Caprica 6, addressing her guilt and her feelings for Baltar and everything that she has done, Tyrol having a really strong scene in the bar (great acting by Aaron), and I love that they are tying the loose ends and addressing important plot points from the past, instead of just letting them hang loose: Tigh’s guilt over Ellen, Tyrol’s feelings for Boomer and his marriage to Cally, and even the occasion when Adama threatened to execute Cally (”Dirty Hands”)… I always hated what I was afraid would be the ‘reset button’ at the end of the episode, and I always thought Chief could not just forget that.
Tyrol (I can’t call him Chief anymore, can I?), also one of my favourite characters, is really going through a meltdown, and it seems like this is just a start! I wonder what happens with Nicky. There were so many levels to the bar scene: partly it was guilt over the raptor and fear that he could screw up again, whether out of programming or out of his own bad mental state, a wish to provoke Adama into demoting him, so he couldn’t do more damage, partly it was his pain over Cally’s death, his anger at her for commiting suicide, anger for probably not being able to accept him for what he was (the line he imagined Adama saying “She couldn’t beat to be married to a Cylon and a mother to a half-breed abomination”), regret over the way his whole life has gone, anger at himself for the way he had treated Boomer… I am sure he did care for Cally, he did even love her, but he was never in love with her like he was with Boomer. His speech was very exaggerated, and it was just the negative side of what he felt about Cally, but I don’t think he would have/could have said it, if there wasn’t at least a grain of truth in it. He did settle, marrying a woman he was never really in love with (and who had shot the woman he was in love with), and I’m glad the episode made no bones about it. That was, IMO, the fundamental problem with their relationship – not all the other troubles they were facing. Everyday troubles, domestic problems, arguments, occasional annoyance with each other, all those things that marriage usually entails, would be very different to face when they are faced with the person you are in love with.He never had time to confront his feelings over losing the woman he loved, and now he’s found himself in the same position that she was in… He must see the parallel between Cally’s inability to accept him as a Cylon, and his own treatment of Boomer after he found out what she was.
The overriding theme of this episode was “the pain of revelation bringing new clarity”, as The First Hybrid put it. We saw it with Baltar and with Tigh and with Caprica – and you might even say with Tyrol. Tory is a different case, she has a different take on the issue. But, in light of the way the relationships on BSG have developed, Chief’s line “How many of us have ended up with the person we really wanted?” might be said to be another overriding theme of the episode.
The interaction between Tigh and Caprica was brilliantly written and acted. The pairing of those two certainly seems as odd if not insane, but it made sense. It was really all about both of them trying to cope with their problems, their guilt and their loss.Saul Tigh might have been seeing Ellen in Caprica’s face, but he is a lot more similar to Caprica than Ellen ever was. There are lots of reasons for those two to feel like kindred spirits. Being Cylons is just one of them. A more important one is that they both madly loved a very human, selfish and flawed person despite all the $hit that person might have put them through, but they both had a very strong (misguided?) sense of duty and were both ready to destroy the person they loved in the name of their mission. And both have been having an identity crisis and are being ravaged by guilt over what they have done. I didn’t see the beating as S&M, as some people call it – she was trying to help him by showing him that he needs to confront pain, not shut it out, in order to grow and learn as a person, before she concluded that what he really needed was some love and tenderness. I’m just not sure if it the pain needed to be so literal in this episode.
Tory has also grown into a really interesting character in a very short time… who would have thought that back in season 3… This is my take on her, which I posted on the Skiffy forum.
She’s started to fall apart in Crossroads I & II when they arrived at the Ionian Nebula, and she and Anders ended up in bed because of the confusion and the hightened emotions they felt and maybe a strange connection – which ended up with their finding out they were Cylons. Anybody is going to have a major identity crisis once they find out they are not what they believed they were all their lives, especially when it turns out that they are ‘the enemy’.In Six Of One, she was till very confused, and indeed vulnerable – “fragile” – as Baltar/Head Baltar observed… Sleeping with Baltar was the turning point for her. Rekha Sharma said that her choice was to make the ‘It’s just something I always do during sex’ a lie, and that she was really crying because “I didn’t feel happy being in bed with the guy who ruined my life on New Caprica”. Which is pretty much how I interpreted it… and in fact I thought it was quite obvious in Six Of One that this was a crucial moment for her character, and I figured that this was just a beginning of a relationship between her and Baltar… I love Baltar, but from her point of view, in her life as a Human and Roslin’s right hand throught the election and New Caprica and the trial etc., Baltar was the man she hated the most, Baltar = Satan, more or less… plus the situation that Tigh put her in was degrading, plus her overall confusion… First finding out you are a Cylon, the ‘enemy’, then ending up in bed with Satan that’s got to screw with your mind… Like a complete disintegration of your earlier values. Especially after he offers you comfort by reassuring you that being a Cylon is not really that bad, and everything you believed in before about religion and Cylons was wrong. Something flipped inside her and she did a 180 degrees switch.
What happened there was, I think, that sleeping with a man she hated and who had been the embodiment of evil to her, was so traumatic to her that she cried, and at the same time she was drawn to him and ended up enjoying it. Maybe even more so because of the sheer wrongness of it? Notice the Quorum scene in Escape Velocity when Roslin was talking about Baltar and all the reasons why people should hate him, and Tory looking at her and listening attentively. Baltar was also the first to tell her that being a Cylon was not such a bad thing, and she’s found in his words something to latch onto, and a way to make sense out of things – but only by interpreting them in her own, very disturbing way. It’s a coping mechanism, but it’s also an opportunity to be someone special, for the first time in her life, She used to be just Roslin’s assistant who was doing Laura’s dirty work when needed, in the name of what she thought was right, because I think she did believe in Roslin’s policies and that this was the best for Humanity. When she found out she was a Cylon, her world crumbled, but she started to come into her own and is now exploring things she is able to do, and I don’t just mean the super-strength. In a way, this is still a continuation of her earlier personality, because she always thought that end justified the means… but now she’s taken it to a whole next level, and she thinks she can do anything, shut down the guilt, and even enjoy doing immoral things. She can commit a murder if she needs to and not feel an ounce of guilt. Probably one of the reasons she came onto Tyrol, a married man, was the wrongness of it. It isn’t just that she is ammoral, she feels that, the more wrong and ’sinful’ something is, the more exciting.
Foul is fair and fair is foul. Wrong is right. We should ‘consecrate’ the sin. Pain is pleasure. That’s her ‘moral code’ at the moment, which she spelled out during her S&M session with Baltar. It made sense for her to return to Baltar and continue the relationship with tables turned… I don’t think she was trying to hurt him, no, she just really believes that pain hightens pleasure, because the psychological pain of sleeping with him made for intense pleasure, now she thinks he, too, would enjoy the combination of sexual pleasure and pain, in this case physical. It was funny to see poor Gaius, who has no idea what has been going on with her, obviously not enjoying it and probably thinking “Well, I’ve dated a fair share of crazy women, but this one takes the biscuit”.
Or, you might say, the Four are going through a typical adolescent identity crisis, and Tory is really a classic troubled teenager. She’s just found out she was adopted and now she’s trying to get away from the shadow of Mommy Laura. “Pain and pleasure… We should consecrate the sin” – she’s in the Goth phase. All signs of teenage rebellion are there: Frakking bad boys that Mommy hates. Getting drunk and hitting on married guys in bars. Going all S&M. Enrolling into weird religious cults. Murdering people. You know, that sort of thing.
@Ben Sona: Yes, Baltar told Lee “You do them because your God compels you”. Which might seem odd at first glance, since Lee is an atheist, and why “YOUR” God.. but what Baltar meant, I think, is that Lee, as everyone else, has a voice inside that compells him to do things he thinks are right… similar to Socrates’ idea of god as daimon, the inner divine voice that we listen.
@Adalla: Baltar must be a Cylon because he projects himself and Six? Well, then Starbuck (projects Leoben), Roslin (projects Leoben, snakes, and the Opera House), Lee Adama (projects a lake that he’s floating on, while actually floating in space) and Bill Adama (projects Caroleanne, the voice of the First Hybrid, and the human prisoners and the gruesome experiments being conducted on them) must be Cylons too!
Oh, and I think everybody who is assuming that the scene with Baltar being ‘pulled’ by Head 6 means that she is definitely ‘real’, will be very disappointed with Mark Verheiden’s comment in his recent interview (the Q&As he does for every episode on the comicmix.com website).
“CMix (from reader Leah): How can the Six in Baltar’s head lift him up and turn him around?
MV: I would argue that Baltar’s gyrations were still him contorting himself, as if Number Six were hoisting him from the floor. I am reminded of Church services where people, in the throes of religious fervor, can evidence remarkable physical contortions, “speaking in tongues,” etc. But feel free to interpret the scene in other ways if you’d like…”
Head 6 is real… to Baltar. And that’s all that really matters. Face it… this is the story about people, not gods using them as puppets. Baltar’s story is about Baltar and his character development, his emotional and spiritual changes… Head 6 is just a mechanism. Is she an angel? Yes… for Baltar, she is.
Baltar looking at Head Six and Tory at the end of his speech, made me think that Six is now only in the role of Baltar’s angel, representing his spiritual side (notice that she hasn’t acted sexual or seductive in S4?) and Tory will come to represent, to Baltar, the dark side of himself and his teachings – lust, selfish ego, immorality. There is a danger in what Baltar is teaching, and Lee probably sensed it. Baltar wants to find redemption and do good for people by teaching them to accept and love themselves in order to be able to love others (which, BTW, comes straight from Erich Fromm’s “Art Of Loving”)… I think this is something that he knows he himself needed to do. Because I don’t think Baltar really loved himself, which people often assume; he was always obsessed with himself, and he was selfish, but as Fromm pointed out, selfish people don’t love themselves, that is why they need to feed their fragile egos all the time. But, as with every religious message, this one is ambiguous and can be interpreted in different ways, some of them very disturbing. Tory could use it to justify her actions to herself, including murder. And Cally’s murder might not be the only one she is responsible for. She’s a very dangerous loose cannon and who knows what might happen. Baltar might be able to manipulate her up to a point, but he wouldn’t be able to control her, she’s a force of nature of her own, with her own weird mindset, going in her own direction, and he’s clearly already scared by what she’s turned into. The last thing Baltar wants is to be indirectly responsible for more deaths. I wonder what happens if at some point she does something completely frakked up and he finds out and is horrified, and she takes it as a rejection and a betrayal… He should watch out! In any case, the pairing of those two is fascinating because it is so disturbing, it’s like “just how wrong can two people be for each other?”
Oh, and “I liked you better when you cried” – great line LOL!
BTW…Someone on Skiffy compared Tory to Hindu goddess Kali (Shiva’s consort), associated with death, destruction & transformation, which is very interesting way to think about it.
P.S. “Zeus was a serial rapist” – so true! So, apparently the Colonials do have the same legends about the Greco-Roman gods that we do. I bet Jane Espenson was just anxious to get that line in somewhere!
April 29th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
Alright I will keep this a brief one since almost everything was said before. I really thought this episode was slower and weaker than the past 3 we’ve seen this season. I am starting to get worried that the writers are making one huge mess (a good mess so far) and I think they would find it pretty hard to clean the mess they’ve made. An example of this is the Ellen/Six that Tigh was seeing, how on earth are they going to explain that one ?
One thing I really don’t like in 3 of the episodes we’ve seen this season is that they dont end the episodes with a cliffhanger like they used to in previous seasons (well apart from the bulk of season 3). For instance I would have enjoyed the last episode a bit more if that final scene did not show the chief sitting with Adama before the closing credits. It did not add anything to the story and it would have been more tense if the episode ending with Cally being spaced with that dead look on her face. The same goes for this episode as well, if it ended with Baltar’s excellent speech, without going to the Demetrius in the end it would have cemented the powerful words of Baltar in our heads for the next episode.
April 29th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
I really hope Baltar does not end up being Jesus, especially since the only thing he really has in common with Jesus is the look when he was unshaved. If Baltar is like any biblical character, it would be Abram/Abraham. Abraham had a fit where he stormed into a place and broke all of the Idol statues, which was kinda like what Baltar did in that room which I guess is the Battlestar’s on-board chapel.
I do think Head-6 knows about the final 5 since according to my theory, she is one of the original Gods of Kobol who knows everything that is going to happen and is manipulating it so it does.
I am confused, did the former chief really mean all that stuff he said about cute little Cally? or was he flipping out and trying to cover up that he is a Cylon in some way. Again, I am just a huge lover of Cally, she was so cute! RIP
So do skin-jobs have super strength or not?
I really hope something big happens on the Demetrius soon because all of the big-time great to watch characters are there.
Can’t wait to see more Xena
April 29th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
Here’s an interesting thought: The show, since it’s drawn influences from other works in films and TV shows (even more with movies involving military, such as “The Great Escape”), I think is about to make another one with Tyrol and his new hairdo. Remember the movie “Full Metal Jacket”? Well, I tell you, when I first saw Tyrol’s trailer for Season 4, I couldn’t help but think about Vincent D’Onofrio’s character Pvt. Pyle. And with the brief flash of Tyrol with the gun to his head, I can’t help but wonder if maybe Tyrol’s going to go Full Metal Jacket onto himself in the same way that Pyle did.
And to answer your question about Hera and Roslin, Matt and Nat, it actually was brought up. After Roslin’s testimony in “Crossroads, Part 1″, there is a scene where Roslin is answering questions about her cancer returning. A reporter clearly asks, “Will you be getting any more transfusions from the half-Cylon donor?” to which she replied, “You know, this is the kind of detail I’m not gonna go into now. You know, we’re looking at a game plan. I’ll let you know when we have one.” So, someone did bring it up. But I think that she’s not going to do it because she truly believes the prophecy. And if she got another transfusion, that wouldn’t make her the dying leader (Adama actually pointed this out during one of this season episodes, just before Roslin realized her hair was beginning to fall out).
Another interesting note: Though her wig was not the same color, I swear it looked almost like it was the same style as her hair was in the Opera House vision. Is it me reading too much into small details again or did anyone else notice this?
April 29th, 2008 at 10:22 pm
Not sure if they have ever said this or if they have said I’m wrong, I Think The Cylons Build the last first.
say your gonna make 12 of something, if you start with one there is a risk you’ll build 13 or more by mistake
So I think They started with 12 and worked back.
And I think Tigh is 12 and that the problem with the first four models was they were too human, so much so they ditched their programs and lived with the humans.
and if you look the Cylons do seem to get more human once you go down the line(Or become less important).
1=Machine nothing more, Well he does like the Twist…
2=may have faith and love but it’s very machine like in how he goes to those things.
3= is learning but has yet to hit the level of 6 and 8.
4=Both 4&5 to me seem very Mission, machine, Beep.
5=—————————————-
6= Six is becoming very human.
7=?!?Adama?Helo?Baltar?
8= She is so playing Cavil! and the one on Galactica is far more human then six.
9=Tory, Duh!, EVIL, EVIL!
10=Tyrol Can go either way but is very human and like 8 has a child to guide him when he’s weak.
11=Sam is VERY VERY human!
12= Tigh Will Fight those frakers till the Day he dies.
That’s all.
April 29th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
Congratulations JJ for being Fan of the Week
And I have to commend Matt and Nat’s amazing job yet again on another awesome BSGcast.
I am very impressed each week by the what I’m assuming is a CG virtual studio, and the shots from BSG and other things that are relevant to what Matt and Nat are saying at that moment. It is so well done, and also the commentary is delivered without a hitch, without a pause or doubt, very professionally done!
You guys are amazing, keep it up
~Adalla
April 29th, 2008 at 10:58 pm
In referrence to Helo not being punished for stoping the dying cylons from downloading.
I think the reason he was not punished was because Adama was extreemly conflicted
about the whole thing in the first place. I think he was relieved that Helo did what he did.
Demoting Tyrel seemed to be almost an act of mercy. Giving him less stress to deal with by
giving him a less demanding job while saving face by makeing it look like he’s putting
Tyrel in his place.
I wouldn’t say Lee’s look was a look of disgust. To me it looked more like an internal
conflict of knowing in his heart that what Baltar what saying was right, but not likeing that
it was Baltar saying it. More of a “I don’t want to like you” kind of feeling. But he can’t
help that Baltar’s speech made sense. It was probably also pissing him off that the one god
belief system was actually starting to make sense to him.
I just have to comment on Matt saying that Baltar never did anything wrong before the cylons
showed up on New Caprica. I know Baltar is your favorite and he is the ultimate pimp. Hehe
His heram of females is a testiment to that for sure. But on New Caprica, before the cylons
came, all Baltar did all day was was pop pills, frak prostitues and completley ignore the
needs of the civilians. Hence the development of the union. *cough* just wanted to point it out
That’s part of why eveyrone hated him so much. It was like when he caved to the cylons it
was reinforceing thier idea that he was a traiter to the human race. That he never cared about
them, to the point of selling them all out to the cylons.
The storming of the temple. To me seemed more like Baltar is just tired of argueing
with 6. If she says to do something he just does it without question now. I think it’s
Partly cause he’s tired of arguieng with her and partly because she’s never let hime down.
He’s really starting to trust her and have faith in her and the one god she’s always
preaching about.
Head 6 physically lifiting him goes back to my higher self and angel theory.
I think that the “feeling” starbuck gets as she gets closer to earth may be more that
the feeling is leading her to a moment in time.. not so much a place. But this moment in
time will lead them to Earth. I think that’s part of why she can’t seem to get on track as
far as direction goes. They keep going in circles because she needs to be in the right place
at the right time, but the event hadn’t happened yet. The event being the 3 cylon basestars
on fire in the vicinity of orions belt. The trianary star system. I think this is part of
why she is painting the flaming basestars. Her vision of the future event may be getting
muddled with the location it happens in. 3 cylon basetars next to orions belt.
A theory, one of many LOL
April 30th, 2008 at 2:05 am
You know my only guess about how they found cally is that just be chance her corpse bumped into colonial one………….ok it could have been any ship in the fleet or perhaps someone just happened to see her…………But I prefer to think that she just happened to run into colonial one right outside Roslins office. Call me sick but I like that though.
April 30th, 2008 at 2:29 am
Or, Tyrol went to sickbay with the head injury he sustained from being hit with the wrench, noticed his key to the launch systems was missing, informed the Admiral, who probably sent a team to the hanger deck and found the key hanging in the controls inside the tube (placed there by Tory after spacing Cally and repressurizing the tube). And with Doc Cottle’s knowledge about the medicine she was taking and the lack of sleep, the humans and Tyrol probably assumed she went bonkers and killed herself.
April 30th, 2008 at 5:18 am
About the transfusions as a way to cure Roslin’s cancer: someone on Skiffy suggested that her cancer can only be cured by FETAL blood of a hybrid baby… similar to a stem cells treatment… Which would make more sense (I don’t know about the scientific part, but the science of whole thing with cancer being cured by hybrid’s blood was always very questionable), because I really find it hard to believe that anyone wouldn’t want to cure her cancer if they could, dying leader prophecies nevertheless, or at least that someone else (say, Adama) wouldn’t press her to try treatment, if there was any. And wouldn’t cancer patients be lining up by now and asking Helo and Athena to allow blood donations from Hera, if her blood was really able to cure cancer? Shouldn’t people worship HER as a healer?
April 30th, 2008 at 6:26 am
Oooh, good point Ivana… fetal blood could definitely be the reason we’ve not had a return to that idea to cure Roslin again. We’ve heard that Deep Space Nine’s Nana Visitor is playing a Cancer patient at some point in the next few episodes… I think we’ll get an interesting point of view from her.
Cally bumping into Colonial One… wow, that is sick, but strangely hilarious, Scotty
Thanks for the kind words, Adalla!!
~Nat
April 30th, 2008 at 7:22 am
Baltar’s speech this episode was amazingly significant. I’m surprised that so many people watched it and then said, “Nothing happened!”
Firstly, we’ve got Lee, who is setting up to be the-one-who-knows. Since leaving the fleet, he sure has had a lot of time to snoop around. Remember first how Romo guided him into spying on Roslyn’s coffee last season. I’m sure he’s continuing to put that useful skill to use now… It was, after all, Lee who was behind Tori and Tigh when Tyrol grabs their arm. (Insert Lee’s quizzical look). Then at Baltar’s speech, he sees Tori diggin’ the whole One True God thing. (Insert Lee’s disgusted look). All Baby Adama is going to need before figuring the whole thing out is another clue or two, which he will definitely be able to pick up if he continues to wander around the Galactica in his spare hours…
Also, from Lee’s black/white right/wrong good/evil human/cylon polarized perspective, it’s easy to see why he was turned off by Baltar’s speech… Because the very notion that you can be perfect while still doing negative things invites a whole new dimension of morality that the 2-d-Lee is unwilling to accept. (That said, I don’t think his character is flat at all. In real life, when dealing with someone who–possibly to the point of hypocrisy–hangs onto a simplistic view of the world, you don’t think 2-d, you think Ignorant. He’s just got some learning to do.)
Tori, on the other hand, was listening to Baltar’s speech with thorough satisfaction. I think the only logical way we can interpret this is that she perceives that SHE implanted these thoughts in Baltar. And in the context of the episode, it seems that way, save that when Baltar disagrees with her at the start about everyone-being-perfect, he actually disagrees because she’s got her hand somewhere near his smallest member, and he doesn’t want to see what she’ll do to it! “I liked you better when you were crying.”
That incident was just Baltar being cowardly Baltar; it wasn’t at all that Tori gave him anything he didn’t already have. I mean, come on! Head-Six has been preaching the rightousness and the perfectness of fulfilling God’s Plan (which everyone is a part of in her mind) from the very start. Baltar has already, through many spiritual experiences, come to understand the perfection of the Plan and of those who have a part in it.
Despite the fact that Tori thinks she implanted him with that idea, in fact she only gave him the inspiration to say it to the others. Head-Six and the levitation of Gaius Baltar was definitely the thing that inspired his newest transformation (which I dare say might be the big Enlightenment for Gaius, but who can say until we see more from this funny fellow). He saw in that instance that it doesn’t matter what kind of person you are–even if you “really want to stay down”–you’re still a part of the Plan… And God, that singular spot, still loves “the entity that is” you.
…Head-Six and Baltar are perfectly aligned. In whatever ways that they are different, they are also very much in sinc. Baltar is the son-made-flesh and Head-Six is the ephemeral God that permeates him (at the very least Baltar, possibly all things). Thus, no matter what she has to say (e.g. “you won’t get hurt.”) and whatever front she presents, it’s only to guide Baltar down the path that he must travel. They aren’t misaligned. Baltar can’t choose any path other than the one Head-Six lays out. This is the nature of the Plan. No matter what you do or where you are, you are a part of it. “All this has happened before and all this will happen again.”
April 30th, 2008 at 7:39 am
Maybe I missed this in the already posted comments.. but everyone noticed that for the first time Head Six was wearing torquiose and not red….
April 30th, 2008 at 7:57 am
This episode left me thinking about EVERYTHING. They are totally ramping us up for a huge bomb to be dropped. I like Matt’s theory on Starbuck finding the baseships. Probably how they get the cylon on the ship. Does it really have to be a week away
April 30th, 2008 at 9:37 am
Hello BSGcast & BSG fans
.
well we have had a killer episode. I watched a few Hours ago on SKY ONE. Now as on youtube i’m in a way gonna right a revew for the episode but it’s more like a complex analysis. Now as we know Cally was killed by Tory. Now Gallen Tyrol thinks she commited suicide because she believed that Tory and Tyrol were having an affair now how did Tory explain about nicky. When we saw Chief with Adama but where was Nicky? I believe that Tory used her new fount Cylon traits to persuade them that Cally gave her the Babey on the way to the Hanger deck.
Now the Chief starts off by trying to hide most of his grief during the Ceremony. Now Colnel Tigh told him that he won’t ever get over it and he’ll see her everyday for the rest of his life. This could explain why next week the chief trys to kill himself. Now i gotta go anyway may write sum more later.
thanks David J Hawkins
April 30th, 2008 at 10:27 am
if Baltar is Jesus-esque, who is his Peter?
but perhaps Baltar isn’t Jesus-esque, but is John the Baptist. though he isn’t widely seen in that light today, in his own time John the Baptist was a messianic contender (and is still considered the holiest figure by the Johannites/Mandaeans, who see Jesus as a false messiah). In his (John’s) own lifetime, John the Baptist was more widely known than Jesus, and so the story goes, it was while receiving baptism from John that Jesus was visited by the holy spirit in the form of a dove and he (Jesus) then embarked upon his own public ministry. so if Baltar were John the Baptist, then who would be Jesus?
April 30th, 2008 at 11:04 am
Hi all,
I thought this to be one of the most thought provoking epsiodes of BSG. Whether or not I liked what happend, this epsiode set up significant questions that will have to be answered. These answers will completely change the course of the show. This epsiode is like reaching the top of a roller coaster, whatever happens next people will be screaming their heads off the rest of the way.
My only other thought regarding this episode deals with the Caprica/Tigh/Ellen crossover. I think that Ellen Tigh was a cylon. I think she was a 6 that had grown older. There is no reason to believe that every individual from every model is created at the same instant. The Ellen 6 may never have known she was a cylon, just like Boomer. But unlike Bommer she never needed to be “triggered”. She may have been sent by the original programmers to thwart Tigh all his life. Lee says it himself when he first meets Helen. She may occasionally help Tigh, but she always undermines his effort to fight cylons.
People change a lot over the years, and its hard to recognize yourself after a number of years. For example, Cavil(Dean Stockwell) looks significantly different now than he did 30 years ago[seriously compare a picture of him from "Dune" and "BSG"]. So it doesn’t necessarily mean that an older 6 would be recognized as a cylon, as such. Now, only after Tigh realizes he is a cylon and faced with a younger 6 does he recognize that Ellen was an older version of the 6 model. Caprica 6 may have recognized Tigh as well, she beat the hell out of him, then a spark of realization and then she kisses him.
Thats my theory. Are their holes in it? Sure. But not so many as to put it outside the realm of possibility.
Can’t wait for the next episode.
April 30th, 2008 at 11:13 am
My opinion on the BSG episode escape velocity, i liked this episode so much because it did show more of the hybrid’s prophecy in BSG Razor is coming true and ” the four stuggling with the reality of their trueselves the pain of revelation” Tyrol driven to the edge with the reality he’s a cylon along with Cally’s death , the guilt how he treated Boomer when she was found to be a cylon judge her as if he were any better yet still loving her. Caprica six telling Tigh how the pain of guilt brings “clarity” with his guilt of killing Ellen at New Caprica for collaborating with the cylons to protect him. Anders as well knowing that Kara isn’t a Cylon but allowing Tigh and the others publicly denounce her and makes sure that no one beleives her. ” in the confusion he will find her,enemies brought together by longing, enemies now joined as one” Kara and Leoben (next episode). My opinion on the rest of the hybrid’s prophecy
” and the fifth still in the shadow claw toward the light hungering for redemption that will come in the howl of terrible suffering” Roslin is the fifth cylon she always stays in the shadows literally she is in constant pain and it was too much of coincidense that of all of President Adar’s cabinet the head of education was spared.” The seven now six so called machines ” Rapture” season 3 number 3 is boxed. ” who belive they are without sin’ but in time it is sin that will consume them . They will know enmity,bitterness and wretching agony of the one splintering into the many”
referring to Cavil’s fornication with Ellen Tigh and Boomer. Willing to murder their own so easily. The murders on Caprica and New Caprica . Tory killing Cally without guilt or care. Not too sure about that second part. guess we wait and see. “but will join in the promised land, gathered on the wings of an angel.” Probably not earth but a planet of true cylon/ human soceity leading them their in
as Hera as been refferred to in season 2 and 3 as the shape of things to come and Kara the angel.
their is spiritual meaning in the entire series so were about to find out if Baltar is nut or Prophet. If the 6 he sees or the Baltar Caprica 6 sees are angels or devils.
For a more simply way to find the 5th cylon 12 lords of kobol 12 colonies 12 cylons one cylon per colony
Sharon -Aerilon Tyrol-Geminon Dorel- Caprica leoben ( best guess) saggitarrion
that’s all that come to mind right now .
HELO RULES!HELO RULES!
April 30th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
The Three Ships you talked about, I think they are the Resurrection ships of the final five.
and I think the 6 & 8’s are there too.
April 30th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
OK this has nothing to do with current battlestar but rather a past oops. I was looking in a my space group today and it has a picture of the Dianna looking at the final 5 in the temple of the 5. You can’t see any faces enough to tell who they are but you can tell there looks like only 1 is a woman and all are white. Wonder how this slipped passed everyone.
April 30th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
“I was looking in a my space group today and it has a picture of the Dianna looking at the final 5 in the temple of the 5. You can’t see any faces enough to tell who they are but you can tell there looks like only 1 is a woman and all are white.”
not that it matters, considering that the known four are not in the photo, but if you go to http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Rapture , click on the picture, then on the next page choose “Full resolution” underneath the image, you can get an image that is 3,872 x 2,592 pixels in resolution. regardless of whether there are three men and two women or four men and one women, I wouldn’t say gender was necessarily meant to be inferred, just that five glowing cloaks = five bad arses.
April 30th, 2008 at 8:59 pm
I gotta say, I love BSG cast! One thing I think was going on in Tyrol’s confrontation with Adama – earlier, when he had recognised he had made the mistake with the raptor, he said, “Tell me I fraked up!”, and then he deliberately forces Adama to bust him in the bar. I think it was either a concious or subconcious effort on his part to get himself out of a position where he realized that he may be doing harm and , like Boomer, unable to control himself. Think about it: If he just said, “You’ve got to transfer me, I’m a danger to everybody”, they might give him time off, but then they’d send him right back to the hanger bay. This is the only way he can get out of there and stop putting people at risk without outing himself as a cylon.
April 30th, 2008 at 9:03 pm
just a small differentiation between Baltar causing a ruckus in the polytheistic pantheon v Jesus driving away the money changers, Jesus did not enter a temple of a religion not of his own when he drove away the money changers, he entered the temple of his religion (Judaism); whereas Baltar entered a temple of a religion not of his own to make his stand. the differences in these and other particulars may seem to be subtle, but these actions have different meanings. obviously BSG is not meant as a direct parallel to our world’s history, just as an indistinct, déjà vu-like vision, like a dream you can’t completely remember, but which elements thereof feel familiar.
May 1st, 2008 at 7:51 am
I AGREE THAT THE SCENE WHERE BALTAR ENTERS THE TEMPLE IS NOT THE SAME AS WHEN JESUS TURNED OVER THE TABLES, BUT I DON’T THINK THAT THIS OR ANY OTHER SMALL DIFFERENTIATION BETWEEN BALTAR, AND JESUS MAKES MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE. I STATED THIS SEVERAL WEEKS AGO IN ANOTHER POST, THAT BALTAR MAY JUST BE AN INSPIRATION FOR THE SO CALLED MYTH OF JESUS, OR ANY OTHER PROPHET OF THE “ONE TRUE GOD”. HE APEARS TO BE GETTING SET UP BY THE WRITERS TO BE AT LEAST SOME SORT OF PROPHET THAT RELATES DIRECTLY TO EARTH’S RELIGIOUS BELIEFS. THERE MAY BE SEVERAL RELIGIONS/PROPHETS HE COULD BE THE BASIS FOR. JESUS BEING THE MOST RECOGNIZED BECAUSE OF THE GREEK/ROMAN GODS TIE IN WITH THE COLONIAL RELIGIONS. IT COULD BE NOTHING MORE THAN WHEN/IF SOME OF THE COLONIALS, OR CYLONS GET TO EARTH THAT SOMEONE STARTS TO TALK ABOUT BALTAR, AND NEXT THING YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE A RELIGION POPPING UP. OR TWO. OR THREE. OR WHO KNOWS HOW MANY DEPENDING ON WHICH OF THE ACTIONS, AND ATTRIBUTES, OR EVEN PERSONALITY TRAITS OF BALTAR ARE LATCHED ONTO BY THE PEOPLE OF EARTH. DIFFERENT PEOPLE CAN HOLD ONTO DIFFERENT THINGS ABOUT STORIES TOLD ABOUT A PERSON, AND GET A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT IDEA ABOUT WHO THAT PERSON WAS, AND WHAT THEY REPRESENTED. SO MANY RELIGIONS HAVE A “ONE TRUE GOD” BASIS, AND SO MANY HAVE A CERTAIN PROPHET THAT IS THE BASIS FOR THE RELIGION BEING SPREAD, OR KNOWN TO THE WORLD. BALTAR COULD THE BASIS FOR ONE OR ALL OF THESE.
ALSO AS FAR AS WHEN THE CONONIALS WILL REACH EARTH, AS FAR AS WHAT TIME FRAME THIS WILL BE AT IN EARTH’S HISTORY. THE ONLY SCENARIOS THAT MAKE SENSE ARE THAT EITHER THEY WILL ARRIVE IN THE DISTANT PAST WHERE THEY, AND BALTAR, MAYBE EVEN THE CYLONS WILL BE THE BASIS FOR MOST IF NOT ALL OF EARTH’S PAST, AND PRESENT HISTORY/RELIGION/MYTH, OR THEY WILL ARRIVE AT A POINT IN WHAT WE WOULD CONSIDER OUR FUTURE, WHERE THEY WERE THE ORIGINAL HUMANS THAT COLINIZED KOBOL, AND THEY ARE DECENDANTS OF THE EARTH. THEY MAY EVEN FIND THE EARTH COMPLETELY DEVOID OF LIFE, BECAUSE OF SOME DISASTER, OF MAYBE IT A BEAUTIFUL UTOPIA, OR SOMEWHERE INBETWEEN. THE POINT IS THAT THESE ARE THE OPTIONS THAT MAKE SENSE. I DON’T BELIEVE RON MOORE WOULD END THE SERIES THE WAY THE OLD SERIES ENDED, AND HAVE THEM ARRIVE AT EARTH IN THE PRESENT DAY.
THE OTHER OPTION IS THAT THE ORIGINAL SERIES DID HAPPEN, AND THEY GOT TO EARTH, AND TIME PASSED, AND PEOPLE LEFT EARTH WITH THE HELP OF THE COLONIALS AND RECOLONIZED SPACE AGAIN. NOW THINGS ARE HAPPENING AGAIN, EVEN IF IN A DIFFERENT WAY. THIS WOULD BE ONE EXPLAINATION FOR THE “THIS HAS HAPPENED BEFORE, AND WILL HAPPEN AGAIN”
BUT ANY OF THESE THEORIES COULD BE RIGHT, OR NONE OF THEM. RON MOORE WILL NO DOUBT SUPRISE US IN A PROFOUND WAY.
AS FAR AS THE FINAL CYLON, UNTIL I AM PROVEN WRONG, WHICH IS VERY POSSIBLE, I STILL BELIEVE THE FINAL CYLON IS GOING TO GAETA, HE FITS THE PROFILE AS FAR AS BEING CLOSE TO POWERFUL PEOPLE THROUGHOUT THE SERIES, AND AS POINTED OUT BY BALTAR IN THE SCENE WHERE HE TRIED TO KILL BALTAR IN THE JAIL CELL IN SEASON THREE, HE HAS DONE SOMETHING HE IS TRYING TO SEEK REDEMPTION FOR.
AS FAR AS THE THREE STARS THAT STARBUCK IS LOOKING FOR, I THINK THAT IT IS ORIONS BELT, NOT THE THREE BASESTARS BLOWING UP. SHE, AND SEVERAL OTHER PEOPLE REFERED TO THEM AS A “TRINARY STAR FORMATION” AND THAT IS EXACTLLY WHAT ORIONS BELT IS. THAT WHY IT KEPT SHOWING UP IN THE BACK GROUND IN THE EPISODE WHERE IT WAS BEING TALKED ABOUT. NOW OBVIOUSLY STARBUCK WAS PAINTING BASESTARS BLOWING UP IN HER CABIN, BUT THAT DOESN’T MEAN SHE WAS PAINTING THE “TRINARY STAR FORMATION” SHE WAS SIMPLY PAINTING WHAT SHE SAW, JUST LIKE SHE SAW THE EYE OF JUPITER. SHE IS SEEING THAT THEY WILL COME UPON THE SPOT WHERE THE BASESTARS ATTACKED EACHOTHER, WHICH WILL LEAD THEM TO LEOBEN, AND WHILE SHE IS THERE SHE WILL SEE THE “TRINARY STAR FORMATION” AS IT WAS SEEN WHEN THE BASESTARS WERE GATHERED AT THAT SPOT, AND LEOBEN WILL HELP HER “FIND HER WAY” AND AS FAR AS THE BASESTARS BLOWING UP AND LOOING LIKE STARS GLOWING, I JUST WATCHED THE EPISODE, AND I ONLY SAW ONE BASE STAR BEING ATTACKED, SO THE ONLY “TRINARY STAR FORMATION” I SEE IS ORIONS BELT.
ANYWAY THATS ALL JUST ME.
THANKS AGAIN MATT, AND NAT. I LOVE THE SHOWS, KEEP ‘EM COMING. WISH WE COULD GET MORE THAN ONE A WEEK.
May 1st, 2008 at 4:45 pm
In case it hasn’t already been posted:
Goof alert about 7 minutes in: Tigh is wearing Admiral’s pins on his duty blues during the whole scene in Chief’s quarters post-funeral.
Love Roslin’s new Cain-esque wig. Given her recent decision making of late; it’s very fitting. Is their a new budding razor in our midst?
May 1st, 2008 at 7:32 pm
Hi guys, my name is Majd and I’m probably the no.1 Battlestar Galactica fan in Australia. I’d like firstly to congratulate you on your show and stumbling upon it on youtube was a pleasant surprise indeed. So, this is my first time ever doing this and you probably get about a million theories like mine everyday, but I’d like to propose a theory on the identity of the final cylon. I beleive President Roslyn is the last of the five for the following reasons:
First, the scene at the start of the episode ’six of one’ is in my opinion very revealing. Kara tells Roslyn that “I’m [Kara] no more of a cylon than you [Roslyn] are, and you know it.” to which Roslyn replies “I wish I did.” Now since this comment comes right after Kara has just spilled her guts to Laura over how she did so much for her in the past based purely on Roslyns word/visions, combined with the fact that Kara has given Roslyn her gun and asked her to shoot her if she believed she was a cylon, I do not believe that Roslyn’s reply implies that she has doubts over Karas true nature, but her own. Here, I believe Roslyn is exposing her own doubts as to her possible true nature. This scene builds to a climax when Roslyn exclaims “they made you perfect, didnt they” as she grabs Karas pistol from the table and shoots. This is what really clinched it for me. Firstly, Roslyn was at point blank range with Kara and Kara was inviting her to shoot so I do not believe that Roslyn simply ‘missed’ her target. Instead, I believe that at this moment, Roslyn herself ‘clicked’ as the Tyrol, Tigh, etc. did at the end of season 3, and realized that she was and always had been a cylon. Her comment “they made you perfect, didnt they” would make more sense if she was applying it to herself, seeing as she had been so convincing (even to herself) in disguising her true nature. The shot she fired at point blank range was aimed directly at a photo of herself and Bill Adama, an action which I believe has very strong symbolic meaning especially in the context of what she had just ‘discovered’ about herself. This was my main theory but since then I’ve thought of a few more anomolies involving Roslyn which I’ll briefly list:
Roslyn seems to be the ‘linked’ somehow with 6 as they both have the same dreams involving the cylon/human half-breed child where Roslyn can actually interact with 6, and both retain their memories of it afterwards!
Roslyn was healed by the blood of the cylon/human half-breed when dying of cancer the first time, possibly due in part to her own cylon constitution?
And finally, in your breakdown of the hybrids prophecy in ‘Razor’, Matt mentions the significance of the reference to the 5th cylon and how this very convincingly describes Baltar. Well, Roslyn has also undergone great suffering, almost dying of cancer and now dying of cancer once again, as well as the mental strain and hardships of being responsible for so many difficult decisions. Granted the ‘crawling towards the light’ and ‘redemption’ themes dont necessarily fit in with her yet, these may come into play later on from something we haven’t seen yet, it was a prophecy after all.
So anyway, I’ve taken up enough of your time so I’ll stop there. Thanks a lot guys, keep up the good work and I hope I hear from you soon!
P.S. In some of your clips on your site, there are some people wearing replica uniforms as worn by the BSG crew, do you have any idea where I could get my hands on one too?!?
Cheers.
May 1st, 2008 at 8:25 pm
Here is a Youtube clip I found. I did not make it but it’s very interesting. It’s a short clip showing some footage in Crossroads of the dream Roslin, Athena, 6 , Baltar and Hera all had in the opera house. It’s slowed down frame by fram to notice something that is too fast to see with the naked eye. Roslin may have seen one of the final 5 or she may have been looking at her refelction of herself as one of the final 5. Don’t mind the cheezy music. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbb7Usnh_QM&feature=related
May 1st, 2008 at 8:45 pm
Oh oh oh I just thought of one more thing and want to post it before I forget. (I love that I can be a total BSG nerd here haha)
I’ve posted my theories in varios sections of the website I don’t know who has read it or not. So I may be talking to myself. (That’s ok, I like playing by myself hehe)
I was speaking about how show parallels the Emerald Tablets of Thoth. Later on in Earth History Thoth reincarnates in Greece as Hermes. Otherwise known as the Trixster… or the joker.. “said the joker to the thief.”
“The trickster is an alchemist, a magician, creating realities in the duality of time and illusion.
The trickster deity breaks the rules of the gods or nature, sometimes maliciously (for example, Loki) but usually with ultimately positive effects. Often, the rule-breaking takes the form of tricks (eg. Eris) or thievery. Tricksters can be cunning or foolish or both; they are often very funny even when considered sacred or performing important cultural tasks. In many cultures, (as may be seen in Greek, Norse or Slavic folktales, along with Native American/First Nations lore), the trickster and the culture hero are often combined. To illustrate: Prometheus, in Greek mythology, stole fire from the gods to give it to humans.”
This to me sounds like Tigh may be representing the joker or thief… Or he’s being led by the joker to some ultimatley positive end.
Sometimes I think Baltar is the joker but that’s just cause he’s hilarious. But I’ve gotta say in the history of BSG the funniest line EVER (in my opinion) is “No, no, no, we’re not talking about the fragile body of Giaus fraking Baltar.” haha LMFAO!!
May 2nd, 2008 at 8:28 am
Great episode… but I think there are more to go withe:
The Twists of Tigh – I think Tigh still hides a secret or two…
Against Being a Cylon
1)Tigh has been interfeared with surgically on New Caprica.
2)For Tigh to be a skin-job is a problem; he’s too old – he’d pre-date the first hybrid thus be a continuity error (or even more backstory needed)
3)When his eye was plucked out –
1.could he have been switched? This is #2 Tigh – a clone?
2.Could a radio receiver have been surgically inserted? That would give music and other vision stuff – needs that optic input…
For Being a Cylon
1.Cylons learn by exploring the human condition through pain
2.Who has felt pain the most? Tigh, Baltar, who?
3.Just because he is not the “final” to be revealed does not disqualify him from, perhaps, being the lead Cylon…
So. Plot twists:
From the Against – it turns out that he has been duped by having Cylon tech inserted – he IS human all along. The agony of the guilt – flipped! He’s being conned!
From the For – it turns out that he has learnt the most and is promoted to Top Cylon (and so is the lead BSG character over Adama and Baltar)
Hmmm… both, even? Early model with no ability to receive or project. Surgery needed – now he receives, then finds himself a Cylon, then the Doc finds a receiver, then he realises he’s NOT then – the final FINAL revelation – he IS!
or something
. I’ll just go lie down for a bit…
Steve
PS he should have come clean on 1st knowledge to Adama. He’s breaking trust and going against his character. And, as he lives “as the man he wants to be”, that must be knorring him up inside. More Pain. He’s just must be #1 Cylon, somehow…
May 2nd, 2008 at 10:35 am
Now that I watch this episode for the third time, I think that the Caprica/Tighe/Ellen interaction was brilliant. They all have guilt and need absolution and the double meanings for almost everything they said was beyond fascinating. Takes a few times to think about all the angles of one of their statements, how many ways it could be applied and to whom.
When she was beating him up (to get clarity so she said), and Tighe says “more,” I think he just wants to be beaten, to be punished, perhaps even to die, just like Chief wants to be punished and demoted and marginalized away from Galactica. They both feel so lost and so upset at being “the enemy.”
That may change with Tory “showing the way” in terms of embracing her different identify and moving on with her life. All four of them need to realize that they were created for a purpose, that they are more human than human (as they say in Bladerunner) and that they can unite both sides (cylon and human). Both sides will listen to them and stand down and come to peace.
Definitely that end scene with Tory looking at Baltar and everyone crying, that was an epiphany for Lee. He’s thinking “Gee, maybe Roslin was right about this guy and the power of blind devotion…” So I think you’ll see Lee’s character change. He’ll back off on throwing his weight around, just for the sake of it, and listen to Roslin. And grow up a bit more.
I had a thought about Sam and Leoben. I think there may be some jealosy of Sam towards Kara and Leoben tonight in the next episode, and I predict that will cause him to say “I’m a final five – back off and stay away from my girl.” I can’t see him standing back and letting Leoben seduce Kara. Not going to happen.
Tootie
May 2nd, 2008 at 2:01 pm
HEY WAS JUST CHECKING OUT BATTLESTARWIKI.ORG AND FOUND A FEW INTERESTING THINGS ACCORDING TO RON MOORE’S MYTHOLOGY OF THE BATTLESTAR UNIVERSE. IT SAYS ……
“Elosha states that the exodus from Kobol was precipitated when “one jealous god began to desire that he be elevated above all the other gods, and the war on Kobol began.”[6] This figure may be related to or identical with “the one whose name cannot be spoken”, whose temple is discovered in “The Eye of Jupiter”.
ALSO I FOUND THIS …….
While humanoid Cylons show a strict, firm belief in a monotheistic God, referring to the Lords of Kobol as “false idols,” a connection between the Cylon God and the Lords of Kobol may exist. In “Exodus, Part I”, an oracle tells Number Three (who has a dream of the oracle’s tent and of holding the believed-dead hybrid child Hera) that she has a message from the one that Number Three worships. This poses the question how an oracle of the Lords of Kobol be able to hear the messages of the Cylon God.
AND …….
The Temple of Five, which a Number Three uses to visualize the identities of the Final Five) was not built for the Cylons (who were not created until 4,000 years later) but for humans. The Temple, according to the Sacred Scrolls, was built for five priests who worshiped “The One Whose Name Cannot Be Spoken”. It is not clear if this was the spurned “jealous god” or another fallen member of the Lords of Kobol. No further information on the connection between the Cylon and Colonial religions in regards to the Temple of Five is revealed as of the end of Season 3.
JUST A THOUGHT, BUT WHAT IF THE CYLON”S “ONE TRUE GOD”, AND THE LORD OF KOBOL “WHOSE NAME CANNOT BE SPOKEN” ARE ONE AND THE SAME.
ALSO IF THE FINAL FIVE REPRESENT THOSE 5 LORDS OF KOBOL, THEN THE FIFTH UNKNOWN CYLON COULD REPRESENT THE “one jealous god” WHO “began to desire that he be elevated above all the other gods”.
SO WHAT IF THE LAST OF THE FINAL FIVE IS BASICALLY THE PHYSICAL REPRESENTATION OF THE CYLONS “ONE TRUE GOD”
WHAT WILL HAPPEN WHEN HE OR SHE REALIZES WHO THEY REALLY ARE, AND WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF THE CYLONS FIND THEM. WILL THEY BE WORSHIPED BY THE CYLONS (AT LEAST THE 6′S, SHARONS, AND LEOBENS) AND MAYBE EVEN LEAD THE CYLONS.
HOW WOULD THAT AFFECT THE WAR BETWEEN HUMANS, AND CYLONS. IT COULD BRING THE END OF HUMANITY, OR BECOME IT’S SALVATION, DEPENDING ON WHETHER THE FINAL CYLON DECIDES TO BECOME A TRAITOR TO THE HUMAN RACE OF WHICH THEY WERE A PART OF, OR TRY AND USE THEIR NEW FOUND INFLUENCE OVER THE CYLONS TO TRY AND SAVE HUMANITY.
JUST A THOUGHT, MAY JUST BE ME THINKING TOO MUCH, BUT I THOUGHT IT SOUNDED LIKE A WAY THAT THEY COULD GO WITH IT, IF RON MOORE WANTS TO REALLY DIG INTO THE MYTHOLOGY HE, AND THE WRITERS HAVE BEEN CREATING. PLUS I JUST THOUGHT IT SOUNDED COOL.
ANYWAY, CAN’T WAIT TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS TONIGHT. LATER ALL.
May 2nd, 2008 at 11:09 pm
Omega Alpha said : “I was looking in a my space group today and it has a picture of the Dianna looking at the final 5 in the temple of the 5. You can’t see any faces enough to tell who they are but you can tell there looks like only 1 is a woman and all are white.”
Actually, two of them are women. But yes, they are all white. Maybe there’s something to it, maybe not. Maybe the director, believing no one would notice, just had anyone he could get his hands on to dress up in white robes for that particular shot. Or maybe, just maybe, it was ment to throw us off.
May 2nd, 2008 at 11:26 pm
” Omega Alpha said : “I was looking in a my space group today and it has a picture of the Dianna looking at the final 5 in the temple of the 5. You can’t see any faces enough to tell who they are but you can tell there looks like only 1 is a woman and all are white.” ”
actually I was quoting Jim (one post above mine).
” ALSO IF THE FINAL FIVE REPRESENT THOSE 5 LORDS OF KOBOL, THEN THE FIFTH UNKNOWN CYLON COULD REPRESENT THE “one jealous god” WHO “began to desire that he be elevated above all the other gods”. ”
these are traits I would most identify with Zarek (if Baltar really is a changed man). a case could be made for the new Roslin though.
May 5th, 2008 at 9:32 pm
Sorry about that Omega. (Jim’s quote)
May 7th, 2008 at 11:02 am
no worries.
February 24th, 2010 at 7:58 pm
i love ellen but this schtick was so lame. everything about last night was lame. i really believe this whole thing is totally fixed and scripted from day one. almost makes me not wanna watch idol.
March 16th, 2010 at 3:36 pm
Une info pratiques elle me sera utile merci !
March 21st, 2010 at 12:04 pm
Bad news people,I’ve just heard that Dexter (Michel C.Hall) has been dignosed with cancer but is nothing big the doctors think it’s treateble.
April 5th, 2010 at 12:08 pm
I found loads of sexy female tongues at femaletongues.com which seems to be the best place for photos of female tongues, pierced tongues, and sexy girls with open mouths.
June 5th, 2010 at 12:00 pm
I am not sure why bing sent me to this blog but I must say I am now actually fascinated by the comments you have pulled together. How many years did it take to start getting this many WWW users to your website? I am very new to this WWW thing.