BSGcast: 4.07 “The Road Less Traveled”
More Starbuck the crazy captain hunting her while whale… and this time she catches a Leoben just before her crew decides to Mutiny. A lot happens in this episode, but did it keep your attention? Did it give you your BSG fix? Matt and Nat enjoyed some parts more than others… what about you? Let us know!
May 2nd, 2008 at 6:28 pm
it’s almost time to get this frack fest started.
May 2nd, 2008 at 7:36 pm
Yo leoban called starbuck an angel, wasnt like the hybrid prophecy saying something about arriving on the wings of an angel?
also Wow helo Soooo earned my respect for this episode, first by using his titan-like strength to pistol whip that short whine pilot…..and then by relieving starbuck of command, course that latter was prolly the wrong thing to do, but still badass
also, Loving how baltars becoming the most compassionate person in the fleet, he seemed just sooo genuine in tyrols quarters
oh and hes still a pimp for bedding tory again
Next weeks episode loooks Tooooooooo amazing to miss, i think the slow roast is gonna end up being quite delicious in 7 days time
May 2nd, 2008 at 9:27 pm
OK, so when Starbuck was talking with Leoban about what happened to her during the months she was gone, I started wondering about the connections between the Cylon models and their head counterparts. Then there is of course the therioes concerning the Lords of Kobol and the cyclon models, so I looked back over Greek mythology, and there are 12 Olympian gods, and if you include Hades this would line up with the 13. Now there are of course a number of issues with this idea, but just for the heck of it I wanted to see if I could line up the models we know of with a possible Greek counterpart:
of the 7 male gods: the 6 female gods:
Apollo-as he is the god of medicene, I would say Simon Athena – Well, there’s Athena (the 8’s)
Ares – Anders, as both are warriors Aphrodite – The 6’s would be the obvious choice
Zeus – Cabal? he is #1, and both are known for their brains Hera – Diana, as Hera was always at odds with Zeus
Hephaestus – this is the smith, god of the forge, so I would say Tyrol I’m not sure about the other 3, one would be Tori,
Poseidon – god of the sea(space?), brother of Zeus, so Tigh
After this none of the other gods/models match up very well. There are a number of problems, the first is that in order for this to work,
the final cylon and the 13th lord of Kobol would both have to be women. Also, if the head varieties were the lords of Kobol, why would
Head 6 be trying to destroy the religion that worships her? Anyways, just a thought, any additions would be welcome (as well as critique) the episode was a good one, especially when Leoban almost sounded like he knew what Anders was.
May 2nd, 2008 at 9:39 pm
Damn, my spacing screwed up, let me try this again:
7 male gods:
Apollo-as he is the god of medicene, I would say Simon
Ares – Anders, as both are warriors
Zeus – Cabal? he is #1, and both are known for their brains, and he is one of the oldest models
Hephaestus – this is the smith, god of the forge, so I would say Tyrol
Poseidon – god of the sea, brother of Zeus, so Tigh, as he is the Ex-O of a naval vessal, and he is another of the older models
Not too sure about the other two, Leoban might be Hades…
6 female gods:
Athena – Well, there’s Athena (the 8’s)
Aphrodite – The 6’s would be the obvious choice
Hera – Diana, as Hera was always at odds with Zeus, and she was often known to try things behind Zeus’ back
Not sure about the rest, Tori doesn’t seem to fit the any of the other 3 all that well yet, except maybe Artemis
sorry for the double post
May 2nd, 2008 at 10:45 pm
At last! An episode that gets 4 out of 5 stars from Adalla, as I expected it to be
And finally, a cliffhanger!
———————–Overview of my Thoughts on this episode:———————-
I really loved this episode. The past few episodes I always ended up with a “darn, this wasnt quite Battlestar Galactica quality material.” Especially what I thought was horrible writing in the previous Demetrius arc, with Starubuck and Anders. Now, this episode totally re-gained my admiration for the Demetrius arc. I mean, I loved it from the beginning, I knew it had a ton of potential and I was very glad to see filming on a new set. The Galactica is great, dont get me wrong, but we did watch some 60+ episodes on the Galactica. I think a story arc on another ship/setting/set is a very welcome refreshment, IMO at least. And the last Demetrius arc was poorly written, although still pretty well done as it built up to what happened in this episode. If the Starbuck-Anders poor “fraking” scene was cut out, it’d have been even better. Harbringer of the Acopolypse and Final Five cylon…and they could only talk about fraking? Ok ok, let me move on. I somewhat expected to see the Significant Seven cylon arc, though I understand why they did not include it. It’s part of the plot. I did enjoy the arc on the galactica.
Ok, now lets review the characters and plot BSGcast.com style
I’m doing this from memory, so it might not be exactly chronological, so bear with me.
————————-Best Cinematography shot in season 4 so far!———————–
Baltar is talking to his people, with Tyrol in the hallway and listening from the back. And suddenly, out of the shadows appears Tigh! It was so splendidly done, such a great shot!
—————————Tyrol-Baltar arc:——————————–
I loved loved loved the scenes with these two. They are both such phenomenal actors and are doing such a superb job with their respective characters. We are seeing huge character development as we’ve never seen before. I’ve heard some people say they dont belive Baltar is truly changing, and that he is doing what he is doing because for self-preservation reasons. That is is utlizing his new found following to his advantage. Seeing that Baltar is hated by a huge number of people, you could easily think that given Baltar’s history, that he is doing what he must to survive and preserve himself, by playing along with the whole religous cult leader thing, because he has no choice. I mean, people have tried to kill him, and he knows this, if he did not have the protection and support of his cult, then he’d be in danger as nobody loves him. So I can see why people think he’s yet again only going after his own interests.
Having said that though, I’m pretty convinced that Baltar is not faking it. And there are several instances where I could argue he went beyond faking, such as when he was literally ready to die when that man held a blade to his throat and was trying to kill him. Six asked him if he really was ready to give his life up, and Baltar said yes. I mean, nobody was going to save him, that was it, he didnt fight back, he didnt shout for help. He was truly ready to die. That was the pivotal moment which proved to me that Baltar is a changed man, and that everything he says and does is sincere and honest. He does honestly think he has commited innumerable and unquantifiable sins in his past, and he is seeking redemption (Final Cylon…I’m telling you, suffering and redemption
). So, since I believe he is not faking it, this episode was so great for me, because we continue to see Baltar evolving. And I mean, it’s perhaps the fact that what he is preaching reflects my own beliefs, and that’s why I’m liking him, but more than that, I simply am enjoying the transformation that is going on within Baltar. He is no longer the selfish guy with a complete lack of compassion for others, or for serious matters. Remember, he never liked politics, or religion, or anything really besides fraking women and feeling important.
When Tyrol was leaving the room where Baltar was giving his talk, I basically wished Baltar would say something, and he did, and that took my breath away. It was so well done, the whole scene, where Tyrol was in the background, just listening, and you could see he did not want to be the ceter of attention, didnt want to be involved, until Baltar ticked him off. And he was listening all the time, and I almost got convinced that he was starting to belive what Baltar was saying, until he grabbed the guy by the throat! lol What a total surprise, testament again to the amazing writing that is finally back with BSG in this episode.
I of course loved the little exchange between Tigh and Tyrol in that same scene, where Tigh was basically trying to forget the past, and Tyrol was not. He was trying to come to terms with it. I guess they both are, but Tigh was moving on I guess, and Tyrol said something like that’s why they are different of whatever. I’d have to rewatch the scene, I’m forgetting the exact exchange.
Ok, now to the actual Tyrol-Baltar scene in Tyrol’s quarters. I loved it, and the whole time this is the image I had in my head. That the Final Cylon, perhaps the Cylon God himself, was mentoring and trying to help one of his fellow children, one of the Final Five. Yes, I’m biased and think Baltar is the Final Cylon, but that’s what I thought. The more Baltar is involved with the Cylons, the more I think he’s the Final Cylon, especially since he has this very important role of being the “first to evolve”. Essentially Baltar is “still in the shadows, but clawing to the light”
I believe he’ll be the first “enlightened” being in BSG. He’s the furthest ahead in the path of evolution, as the hybrids prophecized. They seek to evolve, not harm their own.
——–Dimetrius Space Shots (if you are not an 3D Animation/Space scenes geek, you might want to skip this section
———–
Ok, I’m a big geek of the space shots and the whole pilots thing. As some of you might have seen, I recently made my own BSG space shot, a simple 11 second animation with 2 Mark 1 Vipers. So I basically scrutinize every single space shot, because I’m trying to learn as much as I can and reproduce them. Anyways, I completely loved the Viper shots, and four in particular. The first is a close up of the Viper on CAP (starbuck it was I think) from the top, you get to see the pilot, the cockpit interior to some extent, and all the details on the beautiful Mark 2. Beautiful shot. This episode also has the most detailed Viper engine light shot to date. You get an extreme close up of the Viper engines and the back of the viper, and you how beautifully the Engine Light Package was done for the Viper. The other two scenes I loved was the take off and landing of the Vipers from the Dimetrious. For the first time you see a Viper not launching from Galactica’s tubes. Also, the landing scene was amazing, very realistic dynamics, you get to see the Viper’s magnetized landing skids in action, trying to stick that Viper to th deck.
————–Helo HELO HELO HELO HELO HELO HELO HELO AND MORE HELO!!!!!!!!! ————-
Captain Carl Agathon, man this guy was always one of my favorite characters (and actors) and I loved him taking center stage in this one. You could see him truly be torn between what he knows he must do (follow orders) and what his brain says is wrong, or his heart maybe. He cant risk any more people’s lives. And I loved how he warned the kid stop bitching about Starbuck and do his job, and loved how he smacked him, not once, but twice I think, and like took him out completely. I wanted to get up on my couch and start jumping up and down lol. Helo absolutely rocked this episode, and he is doing what he think is right, much like Lee. Helo is like Lee in many aspects, always doing what he thinks is right, no matter what.
—————Starbuck-Leoben————————
Leoben definitely turned out to be Cylon Leoben, and not Head “Being of Light”/Angel Leoben. And I think they are the same person, but just like Head Baltar is completely different than real Baltar, and Head Six is completely different than real Six, Head Leoben is different than real Leoben. Leoben has not changed much. He still preaches about religion and God and destinies, and has some insane drive to get his destiny fulfilled. I mean he admits there is no Ressurection ship within range, and so he is willing to truly die for Starbuck.
I liked Starubuck this episode. She finally seems to have gotten her act together a bit. She wanted to trust Leoben but when the heavy raider exploded, she had her doubts and all, just like goold ol’ starbuck would have had. I mean, she is doing a great job acting by showing she is a different person now, but I mean, we miss old Starbuck a bit, and it was good to see some old sturbborn and outspoken starbuck back
He did refer to her as an Angel (Leoben that is) and I’m not sure why he did that. I almost want to call it as bad writing, because it seemed like the writers were like…well the Hybrid said Starbuck was an angel (basically it did anyways) so they were like…ok lets have Leoben say she’s like an angel so we get that connection started to solidify a bit.
————–Anders-Leoben!!!!!!————–
I truly love Anders, we finally see his character development. We’ve seen the other Final Four develop, and this episode gave us his own development and what do we find out? Anders still does not show a single hint that he has changed once he found out he was a Cylon. Nothing, no questions for Leoben, no remarks about him being a Cylon etc, no attempt to say he is a Cylon. I man, throughout their exchange I half expected that anytime Anders would reveal himself to Leoben. I thought it’d be a good first person to reveal himself to, because Leoben is the “religious/desitiny” guy, and Anders certainly has a big destiny, so I thought who better to reveal himself to than Leoben, but it didnt happen, and went to show yet more that Anders still has not contemplate much about the Cylon thing. He is the most untouched by the whole thing, he keeps on caring about Kara, keeps on being a Colonial Officer, keeps on being a human, caring for humans. Then again, he did listen to Leoben when he talked about an alliance.
Either way, I loved the Leoben-Anders scenes, and Anders in general. I mean Helo and Anders are two of my favorite characters, and they were absoultely great in this episode.
—————–the Cliff-hanger————————-
At last, a much awaited cliff-hanger and the dreaded, frustrating and yet super-awesome words “to be continued…”
So there is mutiny aboard the Demitrius. While the whole mutiny thing was going on, I couldnt be help imagine the writers going to a big white board with a list of topics they HAD to cover, so they can say that Battlestar Galactica covered that topic, and put a big check mark next to “mutiny aboard a ship Crimson Tide style” And the fact that I watched Crimson Tide last week made it all more vivid in my head. I could just see Helo being in the Denzel Washington role and Kara being in the Gene Hackman role.
———-Teaser spoiler———-
The teaser showed that Starbuck ends up on a Base Ship. Previous teasers show also Roslin on a Base Ship.
————-end spoiler——————–
So I’m guessing this is what happens.
Starbuck and Leoben (and possibly Anders) take the Heavy RAider and head for the damaged Base Star that survived the attack from the 1s, 4s and 5s. While the rest of the Trash ship crew head back to Galactica to inform them of the whole thing.
Then the Galactica and the rest of the fleet intercept the Base Star, and somehow Roslin gets on the Base Star and I’m guessing this is where the alliances form, “enemies united by incredible longing, the way forward once unthinkable, yet inevitable” or whatever the First Hybrid had said about this happening.
Either way, I think SHITE is gonna hit the fan on the Demetrius, and it’s gonna rock. Notice something, we are getting a “splintering of one into many” among the humans just as it happened among the cylons. We have some of the cylons who believe the Final Five are in the human fleet, and want to at least not blow them to bits, and possibly ally themselves. Sixes, Eights and 2s (Leobens) all have connections to humans. While the rest of the Cylons wanna blow them to bits.
At the same time, we are seeing on the Demetrius (and the rest of the fleet) some humans like Gaeta and Seelix etc who want to blow cylons to bits, and others that want to work with them, and consider an alliance.
I think next episode we’ll finally see these alliances forming, and the lines betwen Cylons and Humans truly dissolving. We’ll have more than a handful of humans on Base Ships, and we already have Cylon-invested Galactica. So the next few episodes cannot but escalate to some jaw-dropping breath-taking developments, and I cant wait…
Also, remember guys, we are half way through the half-season. 5 more episodes and it’s done. So by the beginning of June, it’ll be over till Fall or February 2009, yikes.
2366 words…darn…oh well, cant shut up about BSG…you’ll have to get used to it all
~Adalla
May 2nd, 2008 at 10:48 pm
I’m beginning to wonder: Is Tyrol going the same way as Tory? It’s hard to really say. But I’m surprised by the constant circle that connects Baltar and Tyrol together.
The Demetrius storyline is now getting interesting. With next week’s preview, it’s suggesting that everyone who thought that maybe the Beings of Light were involved with Starbuck’s resurrection may have been wrong. Now, I’m having my doubts. It’s like every time you get your idea on what’s going on, the series throws a curve ball that makes you doubt your original opinion.
Also, did anyone get the impression that Leoban knows that Anders’ a Cylon? Because the “Watchtower” tune came drifting in during the scene between them.
May 3rd, 2008 at 2:30 am
Taxi
Driver
(Tryol)
May 3rd, 2008 at 5:41 am
Hey all, here is just my speculation on who the final cylon might be. I know that by now you have all probably heard about 1000 of them, but i had to just get my thoughts into words. Thus I believe the final Cylon to be Aneatasia Dualla for the following reasons:
1. Ronald D Moore stated that the final cylon has been planned from the begining, thus it cannot be any of the new introduced characters.
2. Dee holds a unique and crutial postion in the CIC, not to mention within the Adama family itself (even after the divorce). She is Adama’s (has been for both Adama’s) ear/ conscience in times of crisis, this she can minipulate them to some extent. Plus Lee has sort of been a different element to the cast, there was always been the civilians, the military, Lee and to some extent even Baltar. I beleive that Dee was seen to look over Lee as the other members of the five have also crutial positions in the fleet.
3. She is not present in the Season 4, Di Vinci publicity shoot in which there is a space reserved for the final cylon. Thus the final cylon cannot be anyone who is currently in the shot.
4. There are already 7 male Cylon models, come on the last has to be female (Lame reason I know, but for frak’s sake don’t the chicks kick more ass on this show than the guys).
5. In Razor the first hybrid said something about the last cylon coming out of darkness into the light (sorry i do not have the exact quotes on me), anyways thinking about the 12 colonies; Sagittaron has always been portryayed as the colony that cover underhanded, criminal activites (the dark). Dualla has always been a symbol of light for the Sagittaron people in that she came from the ‘dark’ and now is blinded by the light of serving in the military (please tell me that someone is trying to get what i am saying for this point). But then again so has Zarek to some extent.
Ok now ayways that is enough about me droning on, thanks for tuning in.
I love u matt and nat
Adam
May 3rd, 2008 at 6:50 am
Hera is the answer.
I have been enjoying reading other people’s theories on comparing the 12 cylon modelsto the 12 main Greek Gods. Using that model, I have done my own analysis and I havea theory as to who belongs to what number.
The Original Pantheon goes: Zeus, Poseidon, Hera, Apollo, Artemis, Athena, Demeter, Dionysus, Ares, Hermes, Hephaestus, and Aphrodite. To fit my theory, I’ve replaced Dionysus with Hades because he is the brother of Zeus and other than Tigh, none of the 12 models fits the role of drunken fun seeker.
There are 7 male Gods, which means the final Cylon must be a female. I’ll put my conclusion at the end.
8. Demeter. Fertility. Sharon’s the only female who’s become pregnant.
6. Aphrodite. Desire (which causes things to be born). Also look at the names Six takes
on–Caprica-the beginning. Natalie–To be Born and Gina–Garden or more explictly,
repronounce her name Jai-na.
5. Ares. Doral is A very militant character who does not always keep his cool.
4. Hermes–Simon is not exactly the messenger God, but Hermes was calm and cunning; he was also
a thief and likes to try to impregnate women, just like Simon.
3. Athena–Wisdom, War, Diplomacy. D’Anna until she began to seek the truth was a rational
leader. When she had insight as to whom the final 5 were, she was shut down because
the balance of power would shift (keep reading).
2. Leoben as Hades. Like the god, Leoben is one of his kind, but is mostly apart from them.
Leoben teaches Starbuck not to fear death because he seems to have insight as to
what will happen on the other side.
1. Brother Cavil is Poseidon, not Zeus. Poseidon is second only to his brother so it is in Cavil’s best interest if he wants to remain in charge not to restore Zeus.
which brings me to the final 5.
7 is Galen Tyrol–Hephaestus because Tyrol is the engineer.
9 and 10 are Artemis and Apollo in whichever order. They are the Golden God of the sun and
the Dark Goddess of the Moon. Anders and Tory. Artemis is the protector of children and
kills quietly. Apollo was a god of athletes.
I think that 12 is Zeus, Colonel Tigh. He has naturally ascended to the leader of the 4
This leaves 11. Hera, the partner of Zeus. This does not mean 11 is somebody Tigh is necessarily attracted to. These are my ideas to the identity of 11 and why.
I think that she will be somebody who was not affected by the recent nebula crisis
1. Adama’s ex-wife, mother of Apollo. Far out theory, but it can fit if you consider Leoben as Hades with insight into the afterlife. “Adama is a Cylon” he says to Roslin. Maybe Lee is the actual first halfling.
2. Ellen Tigh. Ambitious wife of the boss.
1. Laura Roslin. Not affected by the mind altering nebula because her mind was already altered by the Kamala extract. Perhaps Laura was made a little too perfect in the image of humans and thus had the ability to get sick. In Archaeological history, Hera was not subordinate to Zeus until Greece became a patriarchal society. Roslin is proud and powerful. Goddess of childbirth–Laura decides that all must give birth if they are pregnant. Also, she is the law.
Yes, I am leaning far towards Laura Roslin.
May 3rd, 2008 at 6:56 am
I think Socrata is a hybrid. All of the other Hybrids came out with the gift of foresight, but they couldn’t
leave the tank. Socrata was brutal (perhaphs inhumanly brutal?) and tried to force mold Kara into being
something great. Starbuck is half human and now like the hybrids speaking in words which cause confusion.
May 3rd, 2008 at 8:48 am
Well I’ve already posted my Greek God theory two episodes ago, so you all know who I think is who. Onto this episode, and I think the best part was, Starbuck/Leoben. And you know how I feel about Starbuck.
But here’s the thing, does this mean that Starbuck is like Iblis from the orginal series? The being of light that the humans should not be listening to? And why do I say that? Well, lets look at a few things. According to Leoben she has changed, now an Angel. Is she something other then human? But what really gave me this idea was the teaser to next week and her conversation with the Hybrid. This is the second Hybrid that has said that Starbuck is the Harbringer, and will lead humans to their end. Much like Iblis was trying to do in the original.
I did love Helo also in this episode. He is just a loyal character, sticking to his friend and his commanding officer. But much like he always does, he makes the hard decision (Like sticking with Athena, Killing the Cyclons last season so that genocide does not happen, Sticking up for the Saggitarons) to take command fromStarbuck. He is putting the good of the crew over her crazy rantings. Sorry, she does sound like a nutjob.
Tyrol/Baltar
First, Baltar brilliant. I love also that Tryol, the son of a religious man is who Gaius confesses to. The man that found him in the temple, and brought him back to the Galactica. I just thought that scene in Tyrol’s quarters was shot, written and acted beautifully. Does this mean that Tyrol has truly forgiven him? Is Tyrol starting to shift towards the One God? Are we seeing the movement and will Gaius give up his life for his followers like Jesus did for his????
I can’t wait until next week.
May 3rd, 2008 at 8:53 am
Here is some more of the 12 cylons/god speculation. Though skin-jobs are representations of peculiar aspects of humanity and not of divine beings, the mythology of BSG seems to be grounded in a cyclical time theory. What we are seeing now, with the whole Starbuck/first hybrid prophecy, is that human and cylons will eventually be at peace. So if you consider the 12 cylon models to be the 12 gods, then history will return to the starting point when humanity and the gods lived happily together (and recolonize Kobol?). Cylons and humans will probably crossbreed, leaving the 12 models to disappear, humanity will retake the colonies, reinvent the mechanical cylons, and go through the cycle again.
The only issue with this account of BSG’s mythology is that we have seen a lot of paranormal/mystical events. There really seems to be gods/a god that are/is very much interested in the fate of humanity and cylons, a lot like in greek mythology (take the Iliad, where the gods pick sides, and help individual and groups through certain situations… some of them even walking on the battlefield… maybe that’s what we have here… multiple gods, fighting on different sides, with humanity/cylon as pawns to their cruel games).
So… well I think there are actually gods/ a god in the BSG universe, that acts directly on some events. The colonies’ religion is just a weird confused mix of actual historical events and real mystical writings.
May 3rd, 2008 at 9:13 am
In response to Zhada comments:
1. We can’t really trust Ron D. Moore or David Eick when it comes to resource information. Moore told Katee that Starbuck wasn’t a Cylon and she’s even said that now that Starbuck has come back, she herself isn’t sure if she is human or a Cylon. Plus, they are writers for the show, which means that they could change their mind about who the Cylon is. So, one day, Moore may say the Cylon has been with us since the start, the next day, he might say that the Cylon has been with us since the start of Season 2. That’s one of the things about being a series creator, you have the ability to change the rules. Plus, Moore said that the final Cylon was with us “since the beginning.” (his exact words, no more, no less) But WHICH beginning? The beginning of the mini-series? The beginning of the show? Since the beginning of New Caprica? The beginning of the second Exodus? You see, there are multiple beginnings, which makes it hard to really pin down when the Final Cylon has been. Besides, the Cylon doesn’t have to be a character that is involved with the show regularly, but has been seen on screen (this includes other people that have been seen wandering the halls of Galactica and CIC).
2. A lot of people have brought this up, including me or at the Sci-Fi BBoard. But you also have to take into account about Leoban. Adama himself told Starbuck that what makes him dangerous is that he “mixes lies and truth.” So, it’s possible that Leoban was lying to Roslin just to trip her up (which as we’ve seen in “Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down”, that’s exactly what he did).
3. Dualla hasn’t been present in any of the previous full cast photos either (but she has had her own promotional shots). That doesn’t make her a Cylon. If that were true, than that would make every secondary character seen on the show Cylons as well.
4. The last one doesn’t HAVE to be a female. It could very well be a man. There is no rules saying “The finale Cylon has to be a woman.”
5. But by going with your interpretation, that means that ANY Saggitaron could be a Cylon, which includes Tom Zarek
May 3rd, 2008 at 10:14 am
The definition of insanity is to do the exact same thing twice and expect a different result.
What is happenning has happened before and will happen again.
The gods are mad. The lords of cobol are mad.
The gods made man. One of the gods aligns himself with mankind to overthrow the other gods. The one god will appear in disguise to humans. It will manipulate them and drive them to rise up and destroy the other gods (since a god can not destroy a god, that is only capable by man (that is why man was really made)). When one god is left all else including man will be destroyed. The lone one god will need to start afresh. It will first begin by creating other gods to assist it.
The gods will then make man. One of the gods aligns himself with mankind to overthrow the other gods.
What is happenning has happened before and will happen again.
Man created the cylons. One of the colonies builds the cylons to overthrow the other colonies. The one colony will appear in disguies to the cylons. It will manipulate them and drive them to rise up and destroy the other colonies (since man can not destroy mankind, that is only capable by cylons (that is why the cylon was really made)). When one colony is left all else including the cylons will be destroyed. The one colony will need to start afresh (earth). It will first begin by creating other colonies to assist it.
The future is not in stars. Only the continuing madness of the gods awaits mankind in space.
May 3rd, 2008 at 11:17 am
I’m still not convinced who the fifth cylon is but my guess is Helo. I understand that he was in the photo that Ron Moore stated didn’t include the unknown cylon, but there are two #6’s in that photo and the Helo in that photo might be a copy. The significance of the baby has not yet been revealed. Ron moore said that the final five are fundamentally different. Perhaps they can have children whereas the other seven models can only have copies. The baby born between Helo and Athena is then the first baby born between two cylons. Wouldn’t Tyrol’s baby be equally as important as Hera if they were both half-breeds. Throughout the series Helo has always represented peace among every situation he is in. He rescued the entire Cylon race (his race even though he doesn’t know it yet). He saved everyone
from a crooked doctor. He is the ultimate person to united both races on Earth since he married a cylon, had a baby with a cylon, and oh yes…he’s a frakin cylon.
May 3rd, 2008 at 12:00 pm
One of my favorite episodes so far. Leoben is just too cool, man. So many great moments that were just made of the stuff I like the show for. I’m not one to fawn over actors much but Rennie really blows my socks off every time, I don’t know they could have done Leoben without him. Helo was rad also. Totally pistol whipped that guy. I love the growing dissent on the ship and the totally out of it Kara. I’ve found Baltar’s story a little problematic here and there but it was pretty solid this week. His connection with Tyrol will probably be leading us in interesting directions. I found it a little weird that no explanation was given for what happened after Six beat the crap out of/kissed Tigh in the last episode. Like, what did he do when he came to his senses after being punched and realized what was going on? But yeah, this episode rocked and I’m looking forward to next week more than usual.
May 3rd, 2008 at 12:11 pm
Wow… I guess we don’t mess with Helo anymore, do we. “Disposable Guy” got it good. What a quick yet thorough beating.
~Matt
May 3rd, 2008 at 1:24 pm
I found something intersting in The American Heritage Dictionary:
Herald
SYLLABICATION: her·ald
PRONUNCIATION: hrld
NOUN: 1. A person who carries or proclaims important news; a messenger. 2. One that gives a sign or indication of something to come; a harbinger: The crocus is a herald of spring. 3. An official whose specialty is heraldry. 4a. An official formerly charged with making royal proclamations and bearing messages of state between sovereigns. b. An official who formerly made proclamations and conveyed challenges at a tournament.
TRANSITIVE VERB: Inflected forms: her·ald·ed, her·ald·ing, her·alds
To proclaim; announce: cheers that heralded the team’s arrival.
ETYMOLOGY: Middle English, from Anglo-Norman, of Germanic origin. See KORO- in Appendix I.
Koro : replace the o’s by a’s and what do you get!?!? Kara
Indo-European Roots
ENTRY: koro-
DEFINITION: War; also war-band, host, army. 1. heriot, from Old English here, army. 2. arrière-ban, from Old French herban, a summoning to military service (ban, proclamation, summons; see bh-2). 3a. harbor, from Old English herebeorg, lodging; b. harbinger, from Old French herberge, lodging. Both a and b from Germanic compound *harja-bergaz, “army hill,” hill-fort, later shelter, lodging, army quarters (*bergaz, hill; see bhergh-2). 4. herald, from Anglo-Norman herald, from Germanic compound *harja-waldaz, “army commander” (*wald-, rule, power; see wal-). 5. harness, from Old French harneis, harness, from Germanic compound *harja-nestam, “army provisions” (*nestam, food for a journey; see nes-1). 6. harry, hurry, from Old English hergian, to ravage, plunder, raid, from Germanic denominative *harjn. 7. harangue, from Old Italian aringo, arringa, public square, from Germanic compound *harihring, assembly, “host-ring” (*hringaz, ring; see sker-2). 1–7 all from Germanic *harjaz, army. (Pokorny koro-s 615.)
harbinger
SYLLABICATION: har·bin·ger
PRONUNCIATION: härbn-jr
NOUN: One that indicates or foreshadows what is to come; a forerunner.
TRANSITIVE VERB: Inflected forms: har·bin·gered, har·bin·ger·ing, har·bin·gers
To signal the approach of; presage.
ETYMOLOGY: Middle English herbengar, person sent ahead to arrange lodgings, from Old French herbergeor, from herbergier, to provide lodging for, from herberge, lodging, of Germanic origin. See koro- in Appendix I.
If Starbuck foreshadows the Apocalyspe, the female hybrid has already told us who the “five” horsemen are:
“The five lights of the apocalypse rising struggling towards the light, the sins revealed only to those who enter the temple only to the chosen one. (Staring at Baltar:) The chosen one. The chosen one. The chosen one. The chosen one.”
First hybrid: “The pain of revelation bringing new clarity and in the midst of confusion, he will find her.” Well, Leoben found her last night.
First Hybrid: “Kara Thrace will lead the human race to its end. She is the herald of the apocalypse, the harbinger of death. They must not follow her.” If the first hybrid was an English, “They” would probably refer back to the “human race”. But, since he’s probably not, “They” may refer to the Cylons. Kara will lead the human race to its ends (like I said before, where they are supposed to go: Earth. Since the first hybrid is part Cylon, maybe he’s worried about the death of the Cylon race, brought on by the five lights of the apocalypse, ie the final five!
By the way, I’m pretty sure Helo beat the crap out of who ever he was because he made insulting remarks about Cylons, and his wife just happens to be one of them. (Remember he prevented Roslin and Adama from infecting the Cylons with the virus by killing them before Galactica was in range of a resurrection ship)
May 3rd, 2008 at 1:50 pm
I meant to post this here…..
For Alienware’s consideration…
Rosalin is so high! OK, now that I’ve got that out of my system.
This is where I think Ron Moore is going with the story and if I’m right someone owes me a bottle of ambrosia.
THE MISSING 40 YEARS OF CYLON HISTORY
BY BISHOMTI
The Cylon Home World is Earth!
During the Colonial Cylon war the Cylon were obsessed with one thing. They wanted to transubstantiate from mechanical being to organic being. The Cylon had collected a great deal of data from the colonials (remember what Sharon said to Helo on Kobol about how the Cylon know more about human ancient history than they do…) and concluded that for them to take the next step in evolution they needed to become organic beings.
Why? Because organic beings possess souls and as a results of having a soul one has access to contact with a force greater than themselves for lack of a better word we’ll call it god.
So, as a result of collected information the Cylon leave the 12 Colonies and head out to and Find Earth in no time flat. (note it really has not taken the fleet that long to find Earth with their jump drives etc.)
I Believe Patrick McNees speech from the Original Series is the key to my thesis.
That Thesis being that the Cylon Home world is going to be Earth.
There are those who believe that life here began out there, far across the universe, with tribes of humans who may have been the forefathers of the Egyptians, or the Toltecs, or the Mayans. That they may have been the architects of the great pyramids, or the lost civilizations of Lemuria or Atlantis. Some believe that there may yet be brothers of man who even now fight to survive somewhere beyond the heavens…
Now in short McNee is saying that the people/”forefathers of (what are the oldest civilizations mentioned?)…Lemuria or Atlantis came from the stars (lets assume that Mcnee is referring to the 13th tribe spoken about in the 12 Colonie’s Pithia scrolls.
Now a little mythology review about Lemuria and Atlantis.
Lemuria and Atlantis were super continents of the ancient world. The Lemurians’ land was located where a portion of the Indian Ocean and the South China Sea exists now and was a race of reptilian humanoids. (Note: Ancient Chinese Emperor’s believed themselves to be direct descendants from dragons.)
The Atlanteans were located according to Plato beyond the Pillars of Hercules which places it in the Atlantic. (They were fair in complexion and were believed to have been the forefathers to the Aryan bloodlines of blonde hair and blue eyes.)
Both of these Civilizations were far more advanced technologically and spiritually than our modern world.
Now, Lemuria was composed of 7 major Islands all close together to still be considered a super continent.
While Atlantis was composed of 5 major Islands all close together to be considered a super continent as well.
(Do you feel the hairs on the back of your neck rise?)
There were 7 Lords of Lemuria, one for each Island and 10 Princes of Atlantis, and 5 Lords for each Island of Atlantis.
(This makes me shiver when I think about the Lyrics to “All Along the Watch Tower”, “Princes kept the view”)
The Lemurians were malevolent in nature and wanted to rid the planet of the Atlanteans and the mythology states that the Lemurians had help from an extra-terrestial race that helped them war against the Atlanteans. The war was devastating and no one came out on top really.
Here endeth the Lesson…
Let’s see how the Cylon fit into the ancient story of Lemuria and Atlantis.
The Cylon arrive on Earth and made an alliance with the Lemurians. In exchange for their assistance in helping the Lemurians take down Atlantis the Cylon would be granted what they came to earth seeking, that being a way to transubstantiate from a mechanical to organic being. The Lemurians and Atlanteans were both civilizations perfectly capable of doing this for the Cylon.
(NOTE: in the original BSG Series the Cylon were said to be originally a reptilian race…refer to “Saga of a Starworld”) (are you seeing the connections fall into place?)
War broke out (year by the way being around 17400BC (Trojan War = 1200BC) now you’ve got your time frame.)
The Lemurians created 7 models of Cylon, Each possessing the unique attributes of each of the 7 Lords of Lemuria.
The War between Atlantis and Lemuria decimated the Lemurian and Atlantean populations. The Cylon now becoming organic and realizing that with and organic vessel one receives a soul and when one receives a soul one receives conscience and free will.
Some of the Cylon were unhappy and felt what the Lemurians were doing to the Atlanteans was wrong so the select few defected over and fought for Atlantis.
The Atlanteans examines what the Lemurians had done to the Cylon and replaced the malevolent reptilian DNA with the much more spiritually advanced Atlantean DNA. (now there are 12 models of Cylon) As a result of this the Cylon discover that the Original Inhabitants of the Earth were the Lemurians and the Atlanteans were in fact the 13th tribe that left Kobol.
(5 models representing the five major Islands people of Atlantis.)
The Atlanteans struck back and forced the Lemurians into the depths of the earth and obscurity. The Lemurians abandoned their 7 Cylon models to the mercy of the Atlanteans. The Atlanteans left the decision on what to do with these 7 models of Cylon to the 5 Cylon that were enhanced by the Atlantean Scientists.
The 5 Cylon chose to spare and banish the 7 Cylon Models from Earth. The Atlantean Scientists reprogrammed the 7 Cylon according to the wishes of the 5 Atlantean DNA Cylon. Both Atlantean DNA Cylon and The Atlanteans themselves knew that within an individual Cylon with Lemurian DNA was the spark of free will and conscience and because of that it would have been wrong to destroy them out right. So the 7 were banished from Earth yet able sustain and survive, however, they were programmed to not think of Earth or the Final Five unless their psyche changed. (Kind of like, don’t come back until you are really sorry for what you did mentality.)
So, as a result, What we know as the significant 7 wonder through the stars away from earth and decide that in their deep memory, that they should, since they are the children of humanity return to the 12 colonies and eradicate the humans there because as stated in season one the Cylon believed that they themselves could not grow until their parents died. No wonder the significant seven are so confused and childlike in season one.
Now to go further. In our mythology with regard to Atlantis there is no accurate account of what happened to the Atlanteans after their land sank into the sea.
In the Galactica universe I believe that when the fleet arrives at Earth they will discover that the Atlanteans AKA the 13th tribe evolved into what the original series viewed as the angelic beings that resided in the ship/s of lights. The 5 Cylon models were given the option to come with the Atlanteans but chose to stay and wait for their seven brothers and sisters in the hope that they would return to Earth.
The Atlanteans / 13th tribe that left Kobol / Ship of Lights Angelic beings are the ones that you see when say Six is Talking to Head Baltar, or Baltar is talking to Head Six, or Kara is Talking to head Leoben.
When the fleet arrives in Earth’s orbit they are between a rock and a hard place. The Cylon on the ground, and the Robot Centurions and Raiders hot on their trail because ultimately the Centurions are going to Remember what all of the Significant 7 did on earth and conclude to destroy them because after all Cavil was right they are just machines.
Once that resolves, the Colonials will discover that the remaining significant 7 are like Sharon and want to truly live in peace. The Colonials will finally accept that the Cylon are spiritual equals to them and that the 5 Cylon on earth have interbred with some of the Atlanteans and in short it’s not what they were hoping for but they settle on earth and Ron Moore has basically told us a story about how we human beings on earth are actually descendants from another star system.
…and don’t forget…”All of this has happened before and all of this will happen again…”
Also I think Kara was resurrected by the Evolved Atlanteans because they know she is special and unique. When you think about it, Kara really did find a hell of a body shop for her Viper. Those ships of lights kicked butt and had a hell of a sound system.
Plus if you go back again to the original series it was Apollo that disappeared and was assumed dead, when in fact he was taken by the ship of lights and assisted in helping people on other worlds while being in service to the angelic beings. These were the episodes where Apollo’s uniform was all white and he was seen as a different person to the people on the planet he was at. It maybe revealed that Kara in her 2 month absence was doing the same things that the Original Apollo did in the Original series.
In the New Series the Role of Lee and Kara is Reversed. I would write it so that the Angelic beings still need her for a little while longer…(Think Green Lanterns chosen by the Guardians for their bravery…)(That’s Kara) Her and Lee exchange dog tags …(because you know Lee will still be wearing his…) So while they are holding and kissing each other in the most intense way we’ve ever seen to date between the two characters, Kara promises Lee that she will come back and he says, “I’ll be waiting for you.” And that’s the end of the story, and thank you Ron Moore! it’s also a win win for fans that are pro Lee and Kara and not so pro Lee and Kara.
I totally agree with Nat with regard to Lee and Kara being meant to be together in the end, plus it’s just bad story telling to be dangling these two that are so meant for each other that everybody sees it from day one and not put them together.
Now think about how hot a series would be based on the missing 40 years of the Cylon? Yah:)
May 3rd, 2008 at 2:35 pm
On the whole it was an enjoyable episode. Frustrating in the same ways all the others have been, in that, we’re not getting ANY resolution at all, but we’re moving forwards. Slowly.
Structurally, I loved how both the A story (Demetrius) and the B story (Tyrol) were both about the outsiders. The lack of other characters (Adama, Roslin, Lee, etc) made the two stories feel removed, adding to “The Road Less Traveled” feeling. All in all, it was an episode that both accomplished the character developments (Kara and Tyrol, in particular) as well as plot advancement (Alliance?!? Hybrid and the harbringer of death!!!?!)
Speaking of character developments, here’s what I think about a few of them…
1. Kara – I think, I, like many people, loved the old Kara Thrace. She was tough, she was cool, she played with the boys and kicked their butts. She was also conflicted… incredibly. She didn’t always deal with it very well (e.g. Lee), but she tried. When Adama reamed her out for after New Caprica, she didn’t lock herself up in her quarters and drank her liver to bits (ahem Tigh ahem). She tried to be the old Kara. Just like she’s trying now.
But she’s not the old Kara. Whether she is physically the same Kara that went into the maelstrom or not is almost irrelevant. Leoben has her pegged. She is an angel on a mission, having seen something beyond the mortal realm, pulled back into a mortal existence and frustrated by the fading clarity that she saw. As much as I miss the old Kara and am a bit tired of the crazy-psycho-ness of the new Kara, RDM et al. and Katie did a great job showing she inner conflict. On some level, she wants to be the old Kara. But she cannot take back her brush with truth and purpose. I’ll miss you, old Kara Thrace.
2. Tyrol – I love him in this episode. He is not using his newfound Cylon-ness as an excuse to be crazy, like Tory is. Unlike what Baltar says, the past is not irrelevant. He is deeply hurt, deeply conflicted, but, while he was on the brink of giving up all together, he hasn’t yet. To confront the truth, the past, and not give in to despair takes more strength than denial or suicide. Of the final 4 we have seen, I think Tyrol is the mostly likely to remain sane and HUMAN. Either that, or he goes ballistic. Either way, his story is so wonderful to watch.
3. Baltar – Ok. I understand why Baltar is appealing. He’s a brilliant, yet dorky screw-up who somehow keeps surviving, getting second (third, fourth, fifth… you get the idea) chances, and somehow always ends up with hot chicks (albeit of questionable sanity/motivation). And yes, he is a developing as a person. However, I take exception to any opinions that he is now somehow the most “compassionate” person in the fleet. Baltar’s motivation is now redemption. Personal redemption. He wants to believe in forgiveness, perfection, god, and all the stuff because he wants it to be true for himself. He wants to wipe his own past away. And somehow, like all the other times before, his personal conflict / growth / exploration always involves the rest of the fleet. Unlike other people, who have their conflicts internally and sometimes spat at other people, Baltar is like a reality show. He can’t just have a spiritual awakening somewhere private. He can’t even have it with his little girly-sexy-groupy-thing. He has to broadcast it. And then, he has to go all self-righteous on other people’s grief and conflict. Sure, he slightly redeems himself with that last scene with Tyrol, but honestly. Praise for Baltar’s evolution from a totally selfish survivor to a slightly less selfish cult leader is like praising a puppy for peeing on your tile floor instead of your carpet.
Anyhow.
It will be interesting to see what next week brings. Kara and the Hybrid. Demetrius hopping back to the fleet. Frankly, I’m looking forward to Roslin and Adama reacting to the idea of an alliance. Maybe we’ll see Caprica-Six and Tigh “talking”? Although, I’m still having nightmares about the Boomer/Cavil smootch, so I’m not really sure I really want to see that.
~Alexandra
May 3rd, 2008 at 4:08 pm
to follow up on what James said, it definitely looks like the hybrid prophecy (from Razor) is playing itself out.
“And in the midst of confusion he will find her, enemies brought together by impossible longing, enemies now joined as one. The way forward, at once unthinkable, yet inevitable,” is a clear reference to Leoben and Kara Thrace aboard the Demetrius.
“And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering.” – this is still ambiguous. part of me wants to believe it’s Roslin and her illness but it could also be reference to Gaius or some other peripheral character. only time will tell.
” And then they will join the promised land, gathered on the wings of an angel. Not an end, but a beginning.” – I’ve always wondered if this had anything to do with Anders and Kara. they both have wing tattoes which are meant to be joined together. then there’s the obvious statement made by Leoben to Kara that she’s an angel or some such thing.
May 3rd, 2008 at 7:02 pm
Thak you for that fascinating theory Magnus.
I was re-watcing the end of season three, from Malstrom to the current episode of this season. Watching the Crossroads two parter had me looking at Roslin closer. One thought in my mind was the theories about the 12 cylons being the 12 lords of Kobol. Look at the shared vision Roslin, Athena, and Caprica. Obviously two are Cylons, but why is Roslin sharing these Dreams. I’m thinking that the Dreams are in fact projections. Also note that when we see the dream/projection after the fleet jumps into the nebula is not present when Caprica and Baltar look up at the five looking at them. Also notice that as soon as the fleet entered that zoom in shot we have of something happening to Roslin. Directly from that shot there’s a cut to the dream/projection and then the final four awakening. So what happened to Roslin? Did she have a “vision” or was in fact switched on? I think it is the latter. I think she is already aware of her statues. Three thing things in the new season that stick out to me pointing in Roslin as the final cylon. One her total change in behavior and trying to draw more power to herself. Two in the opener she says to Tigh, “what has changed?’, it almost feels like she knows something when asks Tigh that question. And finally when she seeks out Caprica to ask about the final five. It’s almost like the other four trying to find the same thing from Baltar.
Magnus brings up an interesting point about about the head angels being evolved humans. I think he might be on to something. I think once we get to Earth we will find that is the cylon home world. The Cylons were left on Earth after humans evolved. After being left alone the Cylons wished to become like thier creators, so they began to seed the galaxy with human clones so they could study them. This would be the 12 colonies. Here’s where I think the cycle theory comes in. In order to study the humans the cylons play out the same scenario over and over again. Thiis being the evolution of humanity up to the point of the original cylon war and then the destruction of the colonies and exdous to earth. As time has gone on the cylons have gotten closer and closer to becoming human. They started as Centurions, then hybrids, the significant seven and finaly the final five who can age and grow. With each cycle they come closer and closer to transcending like the head/angels. Throught these cyles they use the Lords of Kobol mythology, I.E Roslin programmed to have visions and play the role of the dying leader. I think once they get to earth the cyle starts all over again. My hunch is that this the last cycle and that the cylons are close to their goal.
As for Kara, and Baltar…. I think what is happening to them is that they are evolving into the Head/Angels. It is them who will show both the rest of humanity and finaly the cylons how to do this. Why else would Leobean be so assured about Kara’s destiny? It looks like Caprica is already close to this point too since she sees head Baltar. I also think Hera, being both Cylon and human, has something to do with showing the cylons how to make this next step in evolution.
May 3rd, 2008 at 7:18 pm
My bad I meant to thank Bishomti for his theory.
Correction: Also note the when we see the dream/projection after the fleet jumps into the nebula ROSLIN is not present when Caprica and Baltar look up at the final five.
May 3rd, 2008 at 8:04 pm
This episode had me thinking about the “All along the watchtower” song that was playing at the end of season 3. As with many things in BSG prophecy is in every scene. I’m sure there are 10 billion theories about the song but I think things are changing now that the season is progressing.
There must be some kind of way out of here (Tyrel, Tigh)
Said the joker to the thief (Tigh)
Theres too much confusion (Anders)
I cant get no relief (Tory)
Businessman they drink my wine
Plow men dig my earth
None will level on the line
Nobody of it is worth (Worthy of survival)
No reason to get excited (Anders said this to Racetrack. Perhaps he is the thief. Whatever that means.)
The thief he kindly spoke
There are many here among us (Referring to the other 7 cylon models)
Who feel that life is but a joke (Speaking of the other 7 cylon models.)
But you and I weve been through that (The 4 are not like the other 7, also implying that the final 5 have reincarnated before. Not ressurrected but reincarnated. Meaning they may very well be the 5 priests of the temple. That may be Atlanteans from Earth.)
And this is not our fate (They don’t need to go through the same evolutionary process and life experiences as the other cylon models because they’ve already been through it.)
So let us not talk falsely now
The hours getting late (No more deception, just straight down to buisness.. whatever that may be.)
All along the watchtower
Princes kept the view (The 4 in secret. Could also referr to the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse. Starbuck being the hearald of the apocalypse which could mean the apocalypse of humanity hasn’t happened yet. So who are the 12 colonies. Could they be the origional cylons from a previous incarnation, in a previous octave of the cycle?)
While all the women came and went (Baltars heram hehe)
Bare-foot servants to, but huh
Outside in the cold distance
A wild cat did growl
Two riders were approachin (Starbuck and Leoben partnering up to find Earth.)
And the wind began to howl
All along the watchtower
___________________________
As for Baltar the way he’s preaching, If god is the creator and god is in each an every person, then everone are also co-creators. I belive that it is possible that Head 6 is an entity Baltar created to help him survive. It is the divine part of himself mixed with his survival instincts. I noticed throughout the series that Head 6 always shows up whenever Baltar was afraid or nervous or whenever he felt guilty. And if the angels are actually us then it makes even more sense. She helped him survive, while at the same time torturing him with guilt. But through that he learned to love himself and forgive himself, but first he had to admit he’d made some mistakes. He was able to do that when he conqured his fear after the trial. For the first time in a long time his worst nightmare didn’t come true. It helped him build faith. He is now teaching that self love to others.
Many people believe that we are all co-creators and that we create our realities and entities in ourselves or out of ourselves but because we don’t remember who we really are we don’t realize they are our creations. This could be what Baltar is going through. She appeared in his head shortly after the origional attack, it could have been a manifestation of his fear and trauma, but is a real entity in the way that she is a part of him, the divine part of him.
Just another theory… I’ve been having so many latley.
May 3rd, 2008 at 9:30 pm
This is another one of those questions that I’ve asked myself, and I have my own theory, but no one really asked. This is not to be considered for the Alienware/Fan of the Week.
Now, we know the whole “all of this has happened before, all of it will happen again”. Now, one of the theories about what’s going on with the show seems rather similar to that of “The Matrix Reloaded”, where the same situation is constantly repeated throughout the decades. Now, if this theory happens to be true, how did the start begin? I mean, the original humans had to come from somewhere and something had to start this whole situation off (or as I know it is, “the inciting incident” or “the trigger event”). TBH, the theory I have does involve the Beings of Light, but I’m hoping to save it for my machinima comic book fan fiction series. But I have considered on letting the theory out to see if fans would be okay with it (however, for now, I’m considering on including it, and if I go with it, I’ll let Matt and Nat give their opinion as to if the theory would work, especially with what’s been seen on the show).
Seriously, has anyone actually really asked what, how and who of where all of the whole thing started? I mean, the original occupants of Kobol had to come from somewhere.
May 3rd, 2008 at 11:13 pm
To me the best shot in the show was where Helo was standing over the center desk with his hands on the edges. He looked frakkin intimidating. It declared silently yet powerfully that the power and control was taken from the Starbuck and that the mutiny was underway. He is the star of the Demetrius storyline.
May 4th, 2008 at 12:10 am
FYI
Bishomti is one of those unique human beings that has no Y Chromosome
no worries I
May 4th, 2008 at 5:07 am
not that I really missed her but why hasn’t Dualla been in the last few episodes? I suppose the CIC hasn’t played much importance yet and with Gaeta & Helo on the Demetrius, but an occasional appearance would be nice.
May 4th, 2008 at 7:50 am
Greatn show again although I tend to always feel a pang of disapointment when we have a two parter simply because I cannot fully digest and apreciate the story arc until we have the complete thing.
The show has so many strengths its almost like we have to find tiny details to highlight as opposed to the overall genius of the work. I just thought I’d give props to the fact that in BSG the same faces turn up again and again in tiny rolls, it really gives the show cntinuity. For example the female officer charged with watching Six night and day on the cameras is the same guard that Roslin was stopped by when she escaped the brig. h sergent that died this week hae been in at least a dozen episodes I am sure, it really helps the show retain its enclosed sense of dwindling numbers when the same actors are featured no matter what the role.
I am missing Dee. When do we get to see more of her?
May 4th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
Just a thought…
Perhaps the 4 were intercepting a radio transmission bouncing from Earth? In the original series they came close enough at one point that they intercepted the Apollo landing (unknowingly of course). So maybe, just maybe the fab 4 intercepted “Watchtower.”
Also, did anyone else notice that Kara kept mumbling about finding “that sound?”
May 4th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
OK, I’m curious about something that I haven’t seen discussed much here. Throughout the series we’ve seen storylines that resemble certain literary works (Mutiny on the Bounty, aspects derived from classic Greek works, etc.), real-world events (Sagittaron bird-flu, mass executions and genocide, suicide bombers, class struggle, etc.), and even biblical parallels (Baltar as a sort of Christ-like figure, angels of the one true god, etc.). Given that RDM has included these elements of religion, spirituality, and current events, the show really resonates with us fans. But it seems from reading these threads that the vast majority who watch and comment here are of a Judeo-Christian background.
I’m a white, agnostic, spiritualistic male born and raised in the American midwest, and have never studied the Koran and have little exposure to “eastern” philosophies (”Tao of Pooh” and “Te of Piglet” were interesting reads for me). I find myself curious as to what those who may have studied the Koran may think of this show, and am in particular interested in hearing about any theories based in those teachings and traditional stories. Anyone care to comment?
May 4th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Maybe someone already mentioned this I’m not sure. But did anyone else notice the jesus fish in the background when baltar was preaching. Only it wasn’t a jesus fish it was a symbol that looked very much like a raider. hmmm wonder what that means.
May 4th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Hey Kirsty,
That Symbol that was sticking out like a battered thumb
looked like a crude glyph for the Symbol to Aries…
You know, Baltar comes from Airlon, Airlon derived from Aries the Ram in Astrology…
May 4th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
Hi Bishomti
Apprently Ares also has a vulture aswell. It wasn’t so much the picture of a bird in the background but the style with which it was drawn. Looked very similar to the style jesus fishes are drawn.
Hi Adam
“Just a thought…
Perhaps the 4 were intercepting a radio transmission bouncing from Earth? In the original series they came close enough at one point that they intercepted the Apollo landing (unknowingly of course). So maybe, just maybe the fab 4 intercepted “Watchtower.”
Also, did anyone else notice that Kara kept mumbling about finding “that sound?” ”
RDM says in Battlestar wiki that the 4 weren’t not picking up a transmission from earth. But possibly a transmisson from another person within the fleet. This is a quote from that.
“The song is not intended to indicate that the Colonials have picked up an Earth communication. Series executive producer Ron D. Moore considers the song to be an invention created by a Colonial citizen in a curious parallel to what had or will develop on Earth. The series creators have intentionally avoided citing whether Battlestar Galactica occurs in the the series’ Earth’s past, present, or future. Moore offers that “things that happened on Galactica were tied into our reality here on Earth in some way, in the past or the future, or some other connection”[3]. ”
And yes I totally noticed that Kara said where is that sound. That’s so awesome! However there have been many insiniuations that other people have heard it. Like Calley saying nothing has been the same since that fraking nebula. The president was obviously affected by it aswell, but we don’t know if either of them heard it. Now Kara is talking about it. And it’s weird too that Kara died in the eye of jupiter but returned in the ionian nebula. How did she know to go there. Someone obviously placed her there when they brought her back.
I love this show. hhaa it’s awesome!
Kirstycol@yahoo.ca
May 4th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
Sorry Bishomti. I have a Y-chromosome, so naturally I just assume 90% of all internet posts are by males. :p
“Seriously, has anyone actually really asked what, how and who of where all of the whole thing started? I mean, the original occupants of Kobol had to come from somewhere.”
I had this thought when I first read about the cycle theory. I posted two episodes ago about the end of the story maybe somehow bringing things full circle to the orignal series, and even the crazy idea of Dirk Benidict’s(SP?) Starbuck being the final Cylon. Maybe the original series is where the cycle begins. Of course Galactica 1980 wouldn’t factor into this theory.
I did notice the bird during Baltar’s Radio address. It’s the same symbol that Baltar’s groupies were writing on the wall when they interrupted the church, or whatever, service in the previous episode. My intial thought was that it looked like a seagull. Nice catch about the symbol representing Baltar’s home world.
When you were watching the final Tyrol and Baltar scene, did anyone else get the feeling that the scene was mirroring the scene from the first season where Baltar basicly convinced Boomer to kill herself? With Tyrol what I got was that Baltar convined him not to kill himself. It almost feels like Baltar has come full circle. With Boomer it’s like he is denying Cylon nature and with Tyrol it’s like he is accepting Cylon nature, knowingly or unknowingly. It’s an interesting comparison to think about. Is this another indication that he is the final Cylon, or is it just a sign of how the character has evolved?
May 4th, 2008 at 5:13 pm
The series creators have intentionally avoided citing whether Battlestar Galactica occurs in the the series’ Earth’s past, present, or future. Moore offers that “things that happened on Galactica were tied into our reality here on Earth in some way, in the past or the future, or some other connection”[3]. ”
i’m gonna go out on a limb here and say the Earth connection happens in the future. did anyone notice the Air Force insignia patches on the wall of the Officer’s Rec Room a couple of episodes back during Lee’s farewell party?
May 4th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
Hi CB2001
You said “Seriously, has anyone actually really asked what, how and who of where all of the whole thing started? I mean, the original occupants of Kobol had to come from somewhere.”
In the theories section I posted a possible answer to this question as I have also been wondering what the hell are the 12 (or 13) after all. I found some possible answers in the Emerald tablets of Thoth. It’s just a theory but I like it.
In Tablet 7 called “The Seven Lords”
I will post excerpts of it so you know what I mean.
“Long time ago, in the HALLS OF AMENTI,
I, Thoth, stood before the LORDS of the cycles.
Mighty, THEY in their aspects of power;
mighty, THEY in the wisdom unveiled……
…..”
“Learned I of the Masters of cycles,
wisdom brought from the cycles above.
Manifest THEY in this cycle
as guides of man to the knowledge of ALL.
Seven are they, mighty in power,
speaking these words through me to men.
Time after time, stood I before them
listening to words that came not with sound.
Once said THEY unto me:
O man, wouldst thou gain wisdom?
Seek for it in the heart of the flame.
Wouldst thou gain knowledge of power?
Seek ye it in the heart of the flame.
Wouldst be one with the heart of the flame?
Seek then within thine own hidden flame…….”
(This is also similar to baltars speech about the spark in each of us. This wisdom that Head 6 was trying to teach him. But it is also referring to the merkaba.)
“Spoke to me again, the Seven, saying:
From far beyond time are WE, come, O man,
Traveled WE from beyond SPACE-TIME,
aye, from the place of Infinity’s end.
When ye and all of thy brethren were formless,
formed forth were WE from the order of ALL.
Not as men are WE,
though once WE, too, were as men.
Out of the Great Void were WE formed forth
in order by LAW.
For know ye that which is formed
truly is formless, having form only to thine eyes.
And again, unto me spoke the Seven, saying:
Child of the LIGHT, O THOTH, art thou,
free to travel the bright path upward
until at last ALL ONES become ONE
Forth were WE formed after our order:
THREE, FOUR, FIVE, SIX, SEVEN, EIGHT–NINE.
Know ye that these are the numbers of cycles
that WE descend from unto man.
Each having here a duty to fulfill;
each having here a force to control
Yet are we ONE with the SOUL of our cycle.
Yet are WE, too, seeking a goal.
Far beyond man’s conception,
Infinity extends into a greater than ALL.
There, in a time that is yet not a time,
we shall ALL become ONE
with a greater than ALL.
Time and space are moving in circles.
Know ye their law, and ye too, shall be free.
Aye, free shall ye be to move through the cycles–
pass the guardians that dwell at the door……”
(To me this is almost exactly like the beliefs of the colonials mixed with the beliefs of the Cylons. Comeing together may be completling the picture.)
May 4th, 2008 at 5:47 pm
Since no one else has mentioned it, I will make one note. The robe that Baltar was wearing… anyone notice the color when the light hits it just right? Purple. The color of royalty. Also seen many times in classical paintings featuring Jesus.
May 4th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
This was the best episode so far, at least for me.
Now to some of the things I find most interesting. Back in season 3, when the female hybrid spoke to Baltar (while Diana was present) about the temple of the five and the “chosen one” it could have been meant in a literal sense. We know that Diana stepped into the light in the temple and saw the five in the space between life and death. After Baltar pulled her back, she died (well she is a Cylon, so not really). He than tried to do what she did but didn’t see anything. But that doesn’t mean he isn’t the chosen one. The FF may reveal themselves to him. Tory came to him, because she wanted to find out what he new about the FF and now she’s a believer (in her own very special way). Baltar himself than approached Tyrol (because he needed someone of importance, as Tory pointed out to him). Tigh believes that Baltar is full of …. but that can change (Tory was the same and now look at her), the same applies to Anders. And if Baltar is the chosen one, than I would suggest to look who he interacts with – one of those people could be the last cylon.
Kara is an angel, yay
The first hybrid told Kendra that: “Kara Thrace will lead the human race to its end. She is the herald of the apocalypse, the harbinger of death. They must not follow her.” Leoben and the scriptures of the colonials say that “all of this has happened before and all of it will happen again.” History is a cycle, one ends, another one begins. In my theory, Earth was the place, where the whole saga began (a loong time ago) and it’s going to end there. Kara will lead them (I think both the humans and the cylons) to their end. That could mean the end of their journey, the end of the way the perceive themselves (cylon is different from human), the end of their struggle,…
She’ s the herald of the apocalypse. The Greek word “Apocalypse” means the revelation of hidden things. It is also believed to mean the end of the world, a transformation of the world, the beginning of a new world order and other similar things. If we stick to the original meaning of the word, she is the herald of a revelation. She already had one. She’s been to Earth, has seen it with her own eyes and her fate is to lead her people there.
She’s the harbinger of death. Well, she died…and than she reappeared.. That probably won’t be the case for others who’ve died or will die in the near future, but it could mean, that death isn’t the end of everything.
May 4th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
Alot of great comments, I am so glad I found this sight.
Okay, Here Goes my theory.
MAn created the Cylons. They rebelled and waged a war against mankid. But as they were waging war the centurions realized they missed having the humans around so went about creating humans that they could interact with. The created twelve models. As they were developing the twelve models programing them and giving them higher function some of the models started to over take the cylon world, the skin jobs rebelled against the toasters. They created an “inibitor” the shut down and stopped the evolutionary process of the toastors. The Significate Seven took over the cylon world.
A small group of cylons, lets say the ones from the ship “Razor” escaped with the The Final Five, placed The Final Five through adoption or in Tighes case in the service, within the twelve colonies has war orphans, kept the old ways ventured out toward earth watched what was happening monitoring the transmisions, hoping that the comrades the toasters would over throw the skin jobs and reunite with them and the final five would help the toasters to reunite with their fellow toaters. (just like the 12 colonies want to reunite with the 13th)
When the final five passed thru the nebula the radio freguency created by the original toasters was intersepted by the final five. making them aware. The raiders the key to the liberation of the toasters from the skin jobs. The raiders do not have their high functions blocked, The were the Sentinals of the Watchtower searching for the final five, the five who could wipe out the skin jobs. The scanning the eye of anders was wery significant in that he was the first cylon ever to engage in combat with the raiders, when the raider scanned him it transmitted a signal the toaster had been waiting for their sleeper agents were trying the eliminate the skin jobs. When Natalie made the toasters aware, they fought back against there oppressors and stood up for their fellow machines the raiders.
If it has happened before and it will happen again is simple, factions will fight, leaders will emerge enslaving the factions, resistance will happen, factions will fight they will overthrow the leaders, it is a never ending cycle.
May 4th, 2008 at 8:15 pm
Kirsty,
Thanks for pointing that out! I didn’t catch that in the Wiki. Oh well, it was a cool thought. LOL
I’ve kinda held off my take on this episode to give it a chance to sink in. Basically, it was all I thought it might be made better by the scene with Tyrol and Baltar at the end. I’m going to reserve final comments until next week.
May 4th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
In “Valley of Darkness”, Starbuck finds tapes of piano music composed by her father. Since we know nothing about her father, could he be the guy who composed the Colonial’s version of “All Along the Watchtower”? Could he still be alive? Could he be the final Cylon? That would explain why she wondered about “that sound” in the last episode. It would also explain why she has a destiny (to find her father, the last piece of the puzzle)! Now that would be quite a shocker.
May 4th, 2008 at 9:11 pm
@ CB2001: No, they never said she wasn’t coming back, they said she was “looking for other work.” Which she was, because it’s the last season. They phraise their comments very delicately. I don’t think RDM has ever lied about anything.
May 4th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
TighFighter- I’ve heard that one too. But there is a flaw with that: By what Leoban says in Season 1’s “Flesh and Bone”, “The players change, the story remains the same.” and with what the Hybrid said in “Razor”, he repeated the word “again” a lot when saying “All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again.” This suggests that maybe the story has repeated more than once. If that were true, then TOS couldn’t possibly apply because there’s not much suggesting that they’re story was repeating or had any repetition at all, much unlike TNS, where we have characters making the same mistakes, and even a few that actually repeat the same line (Gaeta, Tigh and Shaw have all said, “If we make a miscalculation, we could end up in the middle of the sun.”). The only way that the theory would work is if TOS was the very first cycle, the initial start of the whole thing, and that their “Earth” was one of the many versions of Kobol (much like how New Caprica may be the next cylce’s Kobol, seeing what Pythia described about the first Exodus seems to match what played out at the start of Season 3).
Kirsty- Nice theory. Definately opens the mind a bit.
But even bigger question in relation to the original Lords of Kobol and the Colonials belief structure, or even bigger with the Cylons and their belief of one god: Where did that start?
My theory is that maybe, just maybe, the 12 “Lords of Kobol” are actually the Beings of Light, and that the Cylon’s God is actually the Count Iblis character (in a deleted scene from “Kobol’s Last Gleaming”, Baltar follows being Tigh and Elosia, and Elosia explains that what caused the war between the gods on Kobol was that “one wanted to be elevated above the others”. That definately sounds like Count Iblis. And, to even back up the point further, the two part episode he was involved with was called, “The War of the Gods”, which so happened to feature the Beings of Light as well). I believe that the Count Iblis character is actually manipulating both the Head Six and Head Baltar in order to cause the destruction of what is left of humanity, while Kara’s Head Leoban was actually one being controlled by one of the Beings of Light, in order to help humanity survive. It would make sense that the Count Iblis character would take on the persona of “God” over a bunch of “dumb machines”, even lying to them about details that would help hurt the Beings of Light’s chances in saving humanity (think about it: Where did the Hybrid in “Razor” get the information that he did about Kara?). So, all the comments from the Hybrids about Kara Thrace were planted there by the Count Iblis character to throw a wrench in the clockwork for the Beings of Light.
Of course, when I say “dumb machines”, if you consider the original series’, Iblis needed the characters to give their will over to him. Now, consider this: What were the Cylons, in this series, like before they “rebeled”? They were beasts of burden, made to do labor work, to follow instructions (similar to the computer systems in automated factories we have now). The Cylons were perfect for the Count Iblis character to manipulate to try to destroy the humans, because they had no real will of their own (hence the line, “By Your Command”). Even in the original series, this is true. They followed instructions, never thought about a thing (much like the Centurions were in this show up until “Six of One”, of course).
Now, this is just a theory. You’re probably wondering, “Well, why would this Count Iblis-like character for the new series want to destroy the human race in the first place?” I’d like to answer it, but I’m saving it for my machinima comic book fan fiction series.
But of course, this is just my theory, developed by what I’ve noticed and considered.
May 4th, 2008 at 9:48 pm
Lori Says:
May 4th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
“If it has happened before and it will happen again is simple, factions will fight, leaders will emerge enslaving the factions, resistance will happen, factions will fight they will overthrow the leaders, it is a never ending cycle.”
That’s pretty much my general take on the cycles of the show. It’s kind of like a mobeus-slinky… alot of back and forth, around and around, until the end loops back around on where it all began, on Earth.
May 4th, 2008 at 11:40 pm
CB2001 – Sometimes I forget that not only have very few even heard of the Emerald Tablets of Thoth let alone read them. I should have explained better. In the tablets it talks of the beginning of the 12 who became The great ennead of Egypt. Horus, Set, Thoth, Khnum, Hathor, Sobek, Ra, Amon, Ptah, Anubis, Osiris and Isis. However some believe that the daughter of Thoth (the 13th) went to Peru instead of Egypt. These being names changed throughout the ages in Rome and Greece etc… but they are the same. In the Emerald tablets of Thoth, tablet 5 The Dweller of Unal, it explains a little of how they came to be the 12/13. However the origins of them are the same as us all. The space between life and death. I should also mention for those who don’t know. The Halls of Amenti is the place where souls go to be reincarnated, in the center of the earth. Essentially it’s heaven. Here is another excerpt.
“But, in His Temple, all-seeing, the DWELLER,
lay in his AGWANTI, while through Atlantis,
His soul roamed free.” (Agwanti has no english equivallent. It essentially means a state of detachment. This very much reminds me of the hybrids)
Saw HE the Atlanteans, by their magic,
opening the gateway that would
bring to Earth a great woe. (I know what this is in referrence to and it does relate to BSG but it would take a long time to explain. Essentially a group that lived on one of the islands of Atlantis were doing something that would enslave humanity and destroy not only our world but the worlds of others and in other dimensions. This tradgedy would have been worse for us and them, than death. So a re-start so to speak was initated in order to limit the devastation. The re-start was the global flood told in many cultures mythologies. More than this happend as the Earth and us along with it plummited to the 4th dimension but prevented a worse tradgedy. If this relates to BSG it could be that the humans on the 12 colonies were inadvertantly planning something that would have been worse than death and “god” decided it was better to whipe them out and let them reincarnate back on earth than to allow that terrible thing to happen. But we probably won’t know what that thing was until the pre-quil series Caprica comes out.)
Fast fled His soul then, back to His body.
Up HE arose from His AGWANTI.
Called HE the Three mighty messengers.
Gave the commands that shattered the world.
Deep ‘neath Earth’s crust to the HALLS of AMENTI,
swiftly descended the DWELLER.
Called HE then on the powers the Seven Lords wielded;
changed the Earth’s balance. (As it is in BSG the 7 models destroyed the 12 colonies)
Down sank Atlantis beneath the dark waves.
Shattered the gateway that had been opened;
shattered the doorway that led down below.
All of the islands were shattered except UNAL,
and part of the island of the sons of the DWELLER.
Preserved HE them to be the teachers,
Lights on the path for those to come after,
Lights for the lesser children of men. (The beginning of the 12/13 the great Ennead.)
Called HE then, I THOTH, before him,
gave me commands for all I should do, saying;
“Take thou, O THOTH, all of your wisdom.
Take all your records, Take all your magic.
Go thou forth as a teacher of men.
Go thou forth reserving the records
until in time LIGHT grows among men.
LIGHT shalt thou be all through the ages,
hidden yet found by enlightened men.
Over all Earth, give WE ye power,
free thou to give or take it away.
Gather thou now the sons of Atlantis.
Take them and flee to the people of the rock caves.
Fly to the land of the Children of KHEM.”(Egypt)
Then gathered I the sons of Atlantis.
Into the spaceship I brought all my records,
brought the records of sunken Atlantis.
Gathered I all of my powers,
instruments many of mighty magic.
Up then we rose on wings of the morning. (”Gathered on the wings on an angel…” Hybrid quote)
High we arose above the Temple,
leaving behind the Three and DWELLER,
deep in the HALLS ‘neath the Temple,
closing the pathway to the LORDS of the Cycles……. (It continues from there, this is just an excerpt)
To me this is very compelling. I’m trying to figure out who the 5th is through the tablets but there are just so many possibilities. Damn Ronald D Moore is a genious
Kirstycol@yahoo.ca
May 4th, 2008 at 11:44 pm
Another thing. The line “Up then we rose on the wings of the morning.” Which to me sounds very much like “Gathered on the wings of an angel” from the hybrid. If Starbuck is Aurora, Aurora is Goddess of the Dawn or Morning. In the Tablets this is the beginning of the new world and it is in BSG. Aurora brings a fair wind and fresh start.
May 4th, 2008 at 11:47 pm
CB2001 wrote: “Seriously, has anyone actually really asked what, how and who of where all of the whole thing started? I mean, the original occupants of Kobol had to come from somewhere.”
Human life evolved on earth (I don’t think RDM will change that basic premise), and at some point we developed the technology for interstellar travel and building humanoid robots (reminds me of another science fiction franchise, hmm). Then at some point they (we) traveled to Kobol and then the Colonies. This must be the case because the Colonials recognize the constellations as seen from Earth as their own flags.
At some point after the whole Cylon rebellion happened, both the humans and Cylons got stuck in a repeating pattern where humanity is “destroyed,” although not completely, and then recovers, leading to a period of relative prosperity, and then another war takes place, and the cycle repeats. Yes, very much like the iterations of The Matrix.
Also, in The Matrix, there’s the whole theme about how the cycle was eventually broken by an “anomaly” in the system, an unprecedented merging of sorts between the hero of the prophecy and a rouge agent of the system. Kara/Leoben = Neo/Smith? Maybe not exactly, but I think it’s a reasonable metaphor for what’s happening now. (Hopefully the ending of BSG will be more satisfying than the end of the Matrix, though.)
The hybrid (architect’s) warning is based on a prophecy which has proven true many times over. All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again. But something is different this time that will break the pattern.
Or maybe I’m wrong. I probably am. If so, it wouldn’t be the first time I’ve been delighted to be fooled again by RDM.
DB
May 5th, 2008 at 12:29 am
ALL OF THIS HAS HAPPENED BEFORE AND ALL OF THIS WILL HAPPEN AGAIN…
If I were writing BSG the cycle would go like this…
Angelic Beings and Mortals live on Kobol. (well that’s what the mortals that leave Kobol to settle on the 12 planetary colony star system view their masters on Kobol as…in distant mythology….)
Conflict breaks out…
12 tribes of man head out to the 12 planet system…The 13th tribe heads for Earth… (Why? Because they are old School..or…they return to earth with the surviving Lords of Kobol the Angelic beings…)
The 12 colonies thrive for centuries and centuries until the AI they create rebels. War breaks out…
The AI Leave the 12 Colonies and head out to Earth because they believe that that is the place where they
can find a populace that can assist in helping the AI become Organic in nature.
Some of the AI that become Organic on earth stay, while the others are banished as a result of a conflict that occurs on earth.
The AI return to the 12 Colonies and decimate them.
The 12 Colonies flee into space and seek out Earth that by their time line is a faint mystery of forgotten lore.
The survivors of the 12 colonies reach Earth and with the assistance of the Earth’s population, together fight off the banished organic AI that had been trailing them across the stars. The final battle is won. Most choose to settle on Earth…however some are invited by the Angelic Beings from both the human and Organic AI to live with them on Kobol for most of the colonial survivors are still wary of the organic AI…..
Life on Earth advances through the Ages…
Life on Kobol advances through the Ages…
Life on the 12 Colonies ?…well no one is there through this time….
The Story of Kobol repeats its self ….and the centuries removed AI Organic beings seek out the 12 colonies while the 13th tribe fundamentally choses to return to Earth.
The 13th tribe returns to Earth relative to my Original Theory, reunite on Earth with descendents of the original survivors of the 12 colonies and their AI Organics.
The AI Organics of Kobol that return to the 12 Colonies settle…ages pass and the AI Organics of the 12 Colonies again create an AI that rises up against them ….and the cycle repeats its self all over again…
I think you can get the picture from here…remember what Leoben said to Kara about how the story never changes only the characters…and that before it was she that was the prisoner and he that was the interrogator….
————————
So what this means is the 13th tribe is always responisible for giving the new AI that come to them on earth their organic substance.
and of course the AI that becomes organic creates their own AI that rebels against them the exact same way their distant ancestors did to their masters…
Also perhaps Kara is special because she is of the 13th tribe blood line…hence her visceral need to find Earth.
Could her absentee Father be from Earth?…
Also perhaps the end of the human race simply means the point at which humans and cylon genetically join together on Earth….
May 5th, 2008 at 1:00 am
Darth_Bicyclist- Don’t worry. I could be clearly wrong with my interpretation as to the whole origins of the humans of Kobol and what everything the way it is (after all, it’s for a machinima comic book fan fiction series that is meant to be cannon, but may not be classified as such due to the fact that its fan fiction). RDM and DE will probably look at all of the theories and then at the last second write one that comes out of left field that knocks off of them out of the ball park. Of course, my theory is inspired by many different outer sources, not just the original series and the new series alone (after all, I need all the influence for my fan fic series, sorta hit a rut in planning out “Season 3″ out of the five possible “seasons” for the fic series).
Kirsty- Seriously, it’s a good find. It goes to show that Moore and Eick are both drawing from history, film and literature of the past as they’ve done before (i.e. the “Let them stretch their legs” scene from Season 3’s “Precipice” comes from the film “The Great Escape”, based off of a true story, Kara’s last name, Thrace, being a name of a country within anicent Greek times). So, it makes sense for Moore to draw influence from the tablets. After all, all the good writers do it (H.P. Lovecraft, Stephen King, Bret Ellis Easton and Richard Bausch do it). I should know, drawing influences from past sources is one of the things that I learned about for my creative writing major. But still, it’s a very good find you came across Kirsty.
May 5th, 2008 at 3:46 am
Doesn’t it seem more likely, instead of trying to go piece by piece into lines of a song or mythology just to look out how each of the final five are paired up? I think one of the barriers to us being able to guess at the identity of the last cylon is that we’re trying to get too clever in our deductive reasoning about the relationship of the show’s mythology to the identity of the final cylon model. Each of the “hidden four” cylons are paired up with a fairly significant human character:
Adama – Tigh
Rosyln – Tori
Anders – Starbuck
Tyrol – Cally
Reason would seem to dictate that the final cylon would be paired up with a significant character. Assuming starbuck isn’t a cylon, or at the most is a human-cylon hybrid, this would indicate to me at least, the final cylon would be paired off against the one significant person in the fleet, it seems to me that the most likely candidates for the final cylon would either be: Dualla or Zarek. The pairing here with a human character would be Apollo.
Granted that the theory has one glaring weakness which is that Cally never was a critical character on the show, but if you look at the logic of how the final five were brought together and the positions they held within the fleet, Adama and Tigh rule the CIC Roost, Rosyln and Tori rule the political roost, Anders and Starbuck are both viper pilots and Tyrol and Cally both worked in repair.
The argument under this theory would be that Zarek and Apollo are now moving into the political arena, Zarek being the key reason Apollo was appointed to the quorum, or alternatively that Dualla and Apollo both having been in charge of the Pegasus and Apollo being a floater character between politics and the government.
While sometimes I think it’s beneficial to go deep into lore and history, it seems to me sometimes the best ideas are the most simple, because we had a paradigm shift when they made a character with a significant history and relationship with colonial history (tigh) a cylon, it stands to reason that the same could also be true for zarek.
I’d lean towards Zarek being the final cylon without ruling dualla out. If her role increases significantly in the next couple of episodes, without a doubt she is the final cylon.
Just a thought.
May 5th, 2008 at 7:37 am
GREAT episode – nice cliffhanger. GO HELO!
I agree it was great to see a bit of the old Kara when beating up Leoben…although she contradicts herself by freaking out at him for endangering them, and then wanting to take the crew a few minutes later into danger herself!
If they’d have brought a raptor on Demetrius, then Kara could have headed off with Leoben and all would be solved. (At least I don’t think they have a raptor?)
Good point TighFighter about the parallel between Baltar visiting a suicidal Boomer long ago and a suicidal Tyrel now – INTERESTING. RDM is a genious. Just when you discount Baltar as a cheap grandstanding idiot (ala singling Tyrel out at his ’service’), then he becomes a normal fallible fairly likable goof again when he apologizes and is all sincere in Tyrel’s quarters. Baltar is by far the most interesting character. Baltar is the wimp, the tortured one, the chosen one, the intellect, the feather in the wind, the sex fiend, the betrayer, the poor decision-maker, the seeker of redemption….
He really has done only one unforgiveable terrible thing. He didn’t know Six was a cylon whom he’d let have access to the colonial mainframe. He was a shitty leader on New Caprica, which is no crime, and had no choice but to go along with cylon rule (if he’d have chosen to be shot, they’d have just found someone else). He did let Gina go (then she killed Cain) but the kicker is that he sent her a nuke (with which she killed people and this nuke signature brought the cylons to New Caprica). He sent her a nuke to prove he loved her and was on her side and that he’d do anything for her, and she wasn’t even Caprica Six, she was a copy he didn’t even know! Sending her that nuke was beyond redemption – he is an indirect murderer of hundreds if not thousands of people because of that. And no one even knows he did it, except the people on Cloud 9 with Gina who are most likely dead. Everyone thinks he did other things that are terrible and unforgiveable, but the truly evil thing he did they don’t even know about it. Ironically, Roslin thinks he let the cylons attack the colonies, and doesn’t know his true crime.
My point here is that don’t count on him to be humanity’s ally in the upcoming conflicts with the cylons – he’s dangerous. He loves Caprica Six above all and if she decides to go back to being a human-hater, he will help her I am sure. Remember he thinks he’s the entity loved by God and is perfect the way he is. Fundies = danger.
I predict Tyrel will find out Tory murdered Cally. He won’t give up on this. She was feeling him out in the hanger bay, getting close to confessing. Tyrel already wants little to do with Tory and Tighe, so once he finds out she murdered Cally, he will feel again his humanity and hatred for cylons and it will get bloody as he hunts Tory down and takes revenge.
I think Roslin must know Tory is attending Baltar’s services, even is sending her as an observer, and doesn’t suspect she’s one of his sex groupies.
I am thankful we are past the first few set-up episodes of this season and moving on in the plotlines.
So….Kara somehow goes to the basestar (or at least an escape ship from the exploding basestar from Cavil’s attack). Sam goes along? Sam admits he’s a cylon?
Demitrius goes back to the fleet and Adama and Roslin consider an alliance with ‘good’ cylons.
Tyrel finds out Tory killed Cally and tries to kill her, she leaves to another ship in the fleet or is outed as a cylon and is locked up or joins the ‘bad’ cylons. Baltar and Six get to visit and try to convince Adama and Roslin of the sincerity of the ‘good cylons’.
At some point, Boomer and Tyrel meet up and fall in love again, bringing all the 3’s on side with the ‘good’.
D’Anna is unboxed and outs the fab four if they aren’t already known.
Overall in this episode, I loved Tyrel’s Chretien Shawinigan handshake on Baltar’s fragile neck (haha) and then him reaching out his hand to him later. I loved Leoben getting beaten up (that actor is amazing – he IS Leoben) and I loved Helo standing up for his crew while deftly handling a mutiny.
I loved how you didn’t know until the last second how Tyrel and Helo would react.
Tootie
May 5th, 2008 at 7:59 am
I really like the idea of Apollo’s mother being the final cylon. Obviously it would be a bit weird since she is not in the show, but it would make me happy. Baltar is just too obvious and if we go by the greek pantheon, the final cylon would need to be female, and the president or dee just wouldn’t be good at all. apollo’s mom also doesnt fit with my theory.
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My theory (again) – Please read it and tell me what you think!!:
Living on Kobol with the humans were 12 very powerful beings or “gods”. These gods were the Lords of Kobol. They may have been created by the humans or may not have. When the humans went to Capirca/Earth, the gods went into hiding somewhere. Thousands of years later, humans on Caprica created Cylons that were purely mechanical, not biological yet. Atleast several of the gods came to Caprica and placed themselves into the human population, forgetting their true nature (Col. Tie and maybe others). The first Cylon ware occurred and the Cylons left. Near the end of the ware, they began experimenting with the biological, but it never went anywhere, before the old male hybrid from Razor could create more biological Cylons, 7 of the gods found the Cylon fleet and helped them advance their technology to the biological, creating the new raiders, centurions, and the resurrection ships where the gods taut the Cylons to create many copies of the 7 gods. Those 7 gods are “the original programmers”. They programed fail-safes into the raiders so they cannot harm gods and programed the copies of themselves to not think about them or the remaining 5 gods. Something went wrong and the Cylons decided to destroy all the humans, which was not the original intention of the gods. After Caprica was attacked, some of the gods decided to subtlety intervene to lead the remaining humans to Earth. Head 6, Head Baltar, and Head Leoben are all the personalities of the original gods. (Yes, that means Baltar is the final Cylon) It was the gods who saved Cara and are the cause behind everyone’s visions.
That’s my theory, I don’t think there are any holes in it that can’t be slightly changed but have it still hold. Let me know what you think!
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I am still holding my theory that the 7 cylons that knew they were cylons are copies of 7 original cylons/gods and the final 5 are original clyons/gods, thats why the raider would not kill anders, but had no problem attacking the galactica knowing that caprica 6 and athena were on board. also, since the cylons were only advanced by 7 of the gods to go beyond mechanized beings in the time between the two cylon wars, that would explain why the raiders of the first war never turned back when they met tie as a fighter pilot in the first war. (we know that col. tie was a viper pilot from the mini-series when adama said that cara was twice as good of a viper pilot as him.)
also, maybe the reason that col. tie never had a kid was because ellen never really loved him.
May 5th, 2008 at 9:00 am
Stormire- I’ve noticed something similar to this theory: Four out of the final five (Tigh, Anders, Tyrol and Tory) all were a part of the leadership for the Resistance (Tigh was in command, Anders and Tyrol were seconds, Tory inquired information about the collaberators and was in charge in getting Mya and Hera to one of the ships). Even more so, they were involved in leadership roles (Tigh is XO, Tyrol was Chief of the Deck, Anders was the Captain of the C-Bucks and Tory is assistant to Roslin) So, I’m beginning to think that maybe the final Cylon may have been involved with the Resistance as well (to which Gaeta and Roslin were, both under the portion of information gathering, though the Resistance didn’t know that Gaeta was their contact), but may have had a leadership role (to which another position that is a leader is the CAG, which puts Lee Adama back into suspicion).
May 5th, 2008 at 9:01 am
So this is my first post. Sorry for my bad English i am from Germany
Love this Season!
Well my theory is that the 12 Lords of Kobol are in fact the 12 Cylon Models we see in the Series. Those Cylons made Mankind as their Slaves. Mankind rebelled against them. Ancient Cylons moved to earth. Mankind settles o the 12 colonies.
This time now Mankind engineered 12 Cylon Models. The Cylons rebelled Mankind goes for their search for earth, some Cylons stay on their Homeworld some followed Mankind to destroy them.
I dont think that all Cylons are following the Galactica to Earth. Some will stay on there Homeworld. So Earth is the Place where Cylons and Humans life together.
But the 12 Colonies are in a circle that lasts forever. That makes perfect sense when you see Leoben say that last time he was the interrogator and Kara the prisoner. Everthing has happend before, everything will happen again
Another thing that came into my mind is something Bob Dylan has said about his sond All along the Watchtower. He said that the last line two raiders were approaching kind of the beginning of the Song is. Like a circle. Well a circle in the song, a circle in the show.
May 5th, 2008 at 9:22 am
I think Laura Rosalin is the last Cylon.
On the surface it looks as if she hates Baltar because she knows he and Caprica were responsible for the destruction on the 12 colonies….but were they?
She was very close to the President if you remember. What if she was distracting him from finding out about the hidden programs that Caprica 6 put into the defense grid? What if it was intentional and she didn’t realize it, except on a subconscious level and that explains her hatred of Baltar a bit more.
I have a feeling when she dies her mind will download and then we will have another Boomer freak-out moment.
What do you guys thing?
May 5th, 2008 at 10:47 am
here’s my theroy:
“all of this has happened before and all of it will happen again”
What does THIS mean. What is the scripture refering to when it says this. This is a very vauge word so not everything will repeat. Also how specificaly will everything repeat.
My theory follows Lori’s exactly up until the point were she talks about Kara being the harbinger of death. I looked up the word and this is what I got (courtesy of dictionary.com)
–noun
1. a person who goes ahead and makes known the approach of another; herald.
2. anything that foreshadows a future event; omen; sign: Frost is a harbinger of winter.
3. a person sent in advance of troops, a royal train, etc., to provide or secure lodgings and other accommodations.
–verb (used with object)
4. to act as harbinger to; herald the coming of.
noun
1. something that precedes and indicates the approach of something or someone
verb
1. foreshadow or presage [syn: announce]
2. A forerunner; a precursor; a messenger.
With all these multiple definitions it is far to say that Kara may be able to warn the fleet not to follow her. Right now the fleet is n ot following her. I think that by not following her now the fleet will be safe. Also the hybrid says “do not follow Kara Thrace”, the hybrid doesn’t say who should follow Kara
May 5th, 2008 at 11:35 am
Overall, I liked the ep, while some of my friends didn’t.
First off I’m just going to say that Helo whopped that Red Shirt’s A@s! That two punch combo had all of us doing a shout out to that movie Friday “Dammnnn!!” This ep was definitely one that shows how good Tahmoh really is. His struggle with his duty as an officer and his loyalty to Kara was one of the highlights of the ep.
One thing that did bug me a bit was the lack of use of Athena. Was it me or did she mostly just stand there and look all sweaty (which my guy friends DID NOT mind). To me if you’re bringing a cylon on board wouldn’t the first person to interrogate it be Athena and not the possibly-cylon Starbuck. I know that Starbuck is in command of the ship, but wouldn’t have been safer to have a cylon interrogate a cylon. Cylons are naturally stronger and the 2’s are known for their mind games, so wouldn’t Athena been the natural choice to be the one to question Leoben. Okay, that’s enough complaining from my front about Athena, because I was just happy that she had some lines in this ep.
Chie…opps my bad Specialist Tyrol pulling a Britney Spears was not only creepy as hell, but it was…no in fact it was just plain creepy!!! It’s going to be interesting to see if any more of the finale four will be following Baltar.
No Adama/Roslin bedtime story: I was sad
Also, could anyone out there tell me where in the world is Hera Agathon?! I feel like I need to put a low jack on this kid. For all we know she could be in Joe’s bar being watched by Conner the bartender.
May 5th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
CB2001 – It is interesting how they were all collaborators/members of the resistance, it makes you wonder whether the decision to include them in the final five was made early in the show or later. From RDM Podcasts I seem to recall the decision was made later on in season 3, which makes me think we’re attributing a bit to much omniscience to the writers of the show, and that they only later went back and found characters who occupied interesting/critical roles. Following this line of logic forward, I think it would be a serious cheat to have Rosyln be a cylon (it would almost be too easy) and that putting forth Gaeda’s name is a sound bet. Gaeda, Zarek and Dualla seem to be the only plausable three i’ve heard mentioned as possible cylons so far. When this is all over, i’d love to know when and how the decision to make them all cylons was made.
May 5th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
I do agree that Roslin being the final Cylon seems too easy. On the other hand, the options of Gaada, Zarek and Dualla doesn’t sound too appealing. I hate Dualla and could care less about her character, Gaada is a great second banna but not very compelling being the final cylon, and finally the only way I could buy Zarek as the final cylon is if the cycle theory turns out to somehow tie into the original series. Honestly, last season when the four were reveled, I didn’t really care that Tory and Anders were cylons. The shock was Tigh and to a lesser extent Tyrol. Like Michal Hogan, I’m still in denial that he is a Cylon. :p I will say that since then at least Tory has become an interesting character. While I liked Anders in the resistance and as a foil in the Lee/Kara relationship, I ‘ve yet to be impressed this season with his new cyloness. The eye scan thing was cool, but since then he has returned to being Kara’s lap dog. IMO the final cylon needs to have relevance and and serve the story in a satisfying way. So that only leaves us with so many choices. My money is on Roslin or Baltar and then Kara, Lee, or Adama being an outside chance.
May 5th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
I was sure Gaada was going to be the final cylon… I felt his decision to lie on the stand was very out of character and happened when they arrived at the nebula. I also thought that as he stabbed Balter in the neck folling Baltar whipsering about him being a true traitor was also a key factor… but then I was told that Gaata was supposed to be involved in a story arc to do with the Gemonise being mistreated and persecuted and that was scrapped because they simply didn’t have room for it. His conversation with Baltar was refereeing to this i have been told. Anybody confirm that for me? I have heard Matt mention this story plan before but I am not sure of the details. If Gaada did indeed have a large part in that plot then that diminishes his chances of being the final cylon for me…
I think the speculation in itself is half the fun… but if it turns out to be president Adar or Starbuck’s mother or Adama’s wife or somebody then I will be very annoyed. With this much investment the final cylon has to be a big pay off… and if it is a character that we won’t immediatly recognise and be shocked by then I will be a sad puppy.
A lot of speculation here seems to state it will be a woman… although I am not sure about that myself.
Anybody debating Admiral Kane as the final cylon?
May 5th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
Any scenes with Leoben and Kara is awesome. Wondering why Leoben chooses to wear the same old vest, redish pants, and festive shirt. I know he wears other stuff every now and then, but he always goes back to that. Same with Doral. Its like his entire closet on the Baseship is full of those blue two piece suits.
Helo’s proposition makes more sense. Jump back, rearm, refuel, get reinforcements etc. Then again, I guess time (as always) was against them. Its fun to see Athena be all anti-cylon. She sounded like Mathias, Gaeta, or anyone else there. Oh Poor Mathias. She will be missed.
Hmm. Gaeta seems different. Its like his idealism and optimism has left him. Wondering if something awoke in him to make him more pessimistic. lol. Hopefully the bullet to the leg Anders is going to give him next week will chill him out. Even if he isn’t the fifth, I’ll still think he is a cylon. Kinda funny that the last person Boomer talked to before she shot adama was Gaeta. The camera even panned down to their hands for a sec. gun exchanged? Wasn’t he also the one who calculated the coordinates for Kobol and New Caprica. If its not him, plenty of coincidences.
All in all, I enjoyed this episode. Music was, of course, totally awesome.
May 5th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
i’ve considered Adm. Caine as the 5th cylon….and Billy….and Ellen Tigh. I don’t really buy into the idea that it’s someone from any of the main character’s past. it would have to be somebody who is a regular on the show. for all we know it could be Ceelix.
May 5th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
Since the Indiana and North Carolina Primaries are coming up I was thinking about what character each of the candidates would be.
Barack Obama = Lee. What sealed it for me was the scene at the quorum, where Lee is deftly outmaneuvered by the President when he confronts her with the secret plan for controlling the Colonists’ judiciary. Further, Lee’s principles often make him do things that more practical people, like Roslin find bewildering. Like Lee, Obama has taken punches from his more experienced rivals, like Clinton, especially during and after the Pennsylvania primary. But he seems to be getting the hang of it, as his improved polls show. I imagine in future BSG episodes we’ll see Lee get nimbler as he teams up with Zarek. Lastly, since both Adama and Obama are new to the national political scene (or in Lee’s case Colonial? They don’t really do nation-states in BSG?) and seem to focus more on their principles than specifics I think a good case can be made that Obama is like Lee, more than any other character. (Certainly not McCain! Too old for Lee!)
Hillary Clinton = Starbuck. People may argue with me, saying its Roslin, but I think given the amount of baggage Hillary has (she admits it, happily) Starbuck is the better choice. Indeed, at this point in the show Starbuck is no longer trusted, and gone of the deep-end in the eyes of the others, like Helo and Gaeeta, who see her as so obsessed with her goal of finding Earth, that she’s lost sigh t of everything else, like the safety of the fleet. Further, as seen in the show Starbuck has a lot of baggage from the past. Hillary is the same way. She’s gotten a lot of flack from the right and after a series of losses that made her campaign go from enointed to trying to wiggle in a comeback, she seems hyper-focused on getting the nomination at all costs. No matter how much it destroys the Democratic Party!
John McCain =Saul Tight. Both military guys, both old. Too easy! Also, given their famous tempers it’s a good match. Although, I think for it to really work well McCain would have to be closet Al Qaeda. Highly doubtful, I imagine. Also, both were prisoners of war, Saul on New Caprica (lost an eye), John McCain on Vietnam (lost motion in arms). Hopefully, a McCain presidency won’t be like Tigh was in charge of the fleet.
Also, quasi-political I think a case can be made that
Baltar= Rev. Wright. Wright has given a lot of trouble for Obama, who went out of his to save him when he made that speech, and then Rev. Wright just kept at it forcing Obama to disown him. Lee, too, when out of his way to help Baltar, allowing him to go back into his quarters, although not in time to prevent him from getting a beating. Lee though, seemed a little put-off when listening to Baltar’s preaching. Personally, I think Baltar’s sermon was very suspicious, his everybody’s perfect thing seems very nihilistic to me. To me the message he’s preaching is ‘do whatever you want, you’re perfect and therefore can do no wrong.” Note that Tory comforts herself with that allowing her to forgive herself for murdering Calli. I think later in the show Lee, and the fleet is going to get burned by Baltar again, much like Obama did when he stuck out his neck for Rev. Wright.
Anyway, that’s what I think! What about ya’ll?
May 5th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
kind of early for a comment on this Friday’s episode but the previews look insane. looks like Anders gets found out. the one problem I have is that everyone still seems hellbent on airlocking anyone who is revealed to be a cylon, even though the Galactica crew have taken in Athena as one of their own. is it so hard to believe that the final five aren’t evil and out to kill humans?
May 5th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
tyrel said when he was on the algie planet after finding the eye of jupiter “the final five worship the one who’s name can not be said” six has even said this. the one who’s name that can not be said is guis baltar, he is the one the final five follow, the one true god that programed them. tory has givin in to him. the chief has after the last episode, and colonel ty isn’t far behind. i think all of them will follow baltar eventually.this would explain why baltar has cylon projection. because he is one. the only reason anders hasnt yet is because he is on the demetris and is to far away to be influenced. this is why he is there, to help the 5th climb to the light to awaken. i think the final cylon is on the ship with starbuck. i think its helo, not zack as i previously said. we’ll find out this friday. he is the one who left kobol with the 13 tribe, the 13th cylon and the leader or one true god. the 5th cylon will be revieled this week i’ll bet my crome toaster on it. matt was right obout the trinary stars being the 3 basestars. i really like how the viper laned on the demetris, it was a really cool shot. something never seen before.
May 5th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
Lee Adama the final Cylon???
Whats everyone’s thought on Lee being the final Cylon?
I still feel he will take over for Laura after she passes or cannot work because of her illness. However, he seems to have a unique way about him; a moral compass that no body else can equal.
And what about the Last Supper Pic showing Lee with the holy grail? It might just mean he has the same conviction as someone like Christ. His character is getting very interesting!
Just a thought, but wouldn’t it be a kick in the head if he was the final one.
May 5th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
Robert, what your say is intrigueing about the eye of jupiter, but I think Tyrol was the Chosen one as it pertained to the colonials and Baltar was the chosen one as it pertained to the cylons.
PS…
Jonathan Berman
please keep the politics of this post, there are many people over at Sci fi.com who constantly post about politics, feel free to join them,
Lori,
possibly sagitoron but in truth a bitter pennsylvanian clinging to my guns and religion. (I really am from PA and I took that remark personally)
May 5th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
Why need there be angelic beings?
An significant progress in technology would appear to be magic to those without the technology.
There are no angelic beings. No ascention. Technology that bends dimensions would be magic to us.
The madness of the gods that awaits mankind in space is simply the games of a technologically suprerior race on the lab rats of our universe.
Happening in cycles is nothing more then duplicating runs of an experiment. Now, get the cheese and let another rat play.
May 5th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
“I still feel he will take over for Laura after she passes or cannot work because of her illness. However, he seems to have a unique way about him; a moral compass that no body else can equal.”
possible but only if proper elections were held. Zarak is VP so the torch would technically go to him. best case scenario, Roslin dies, Zarak vies for presidential spot, and Lee challenges Zarak. I would maintain that another cast member with with a great moral compass is Helo. He’s always stuck to his guns no matter the situation….and he’s loyal to a fault.
May 5th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
Thee immortal one – Just to offer a different perspective. In this show ascension is not seen as something technological. It is a natural process of evolution. Not something done to them like in Stargate Sg1 or Stargate Atlantis. The angelic beings are more about the nature of our true existance, of who we really are, no one is calling it magic. It’s just who we are, and really understanding that. In BSG the most basic article of faith is “This is not all that we are.” I think that’s where they are coming from.
Not trying to get into a philsophical debate, just offering a different perspective.
Why does is say there are only 60 posts where there are 70 or more??? Hmm a clitch in the program again.
May 5th, 2008 at 7:54 pm
With apologies to Lori, I have to disagree with Jonathan Berman. Gaius Baltar better resembles Bill Clinton out of sheer super-pimpitude. He’s got that oily “Slick Willie” charisma that lets him talk his way into or out of anything. Both escaped a very public trial with little more than a slap on the wrist when the stakes were much, much higher. They both “feel your pain.” No matter how often he cheats on Caprica Six (the closest thing to a wife he’s ever had), she still keeps forgiving him. He even has one or two chunky chicks in his harem
May 5th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
Here’s an interesting analysis about the last Supper Picture. The guy applies a few techniques that have been used with the original last supper painting.
Warning may contain possible Spoilers Follow link at your own risk
Last chance to turn back…..
http://www.spacewesterns.com/articles/60/
Some very interesting conjecture.
May 5th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
Hi All–very interesting, but very long and fabulous posts!
I don’t know where to start;, but here it goes:
Adalla,
I agree with you on Helo, Helo, Helo! I agree that Helo and Lee are very much alike, and I just wrote it on another site:
they are strong leaders, with morals that make them admirable and looked up to by their teams,and they both would do anything for the love of their life, ie. Sharon for Helo, Kara for Lee. However, i have felt Lee has been more suicidal in his loyalty to Kara meaning, he would back her up no matter what, ie. R2. I also liked how Helo, followed his heart, and what he knew to be right when it came to Kara, even though he is her friend, and knew she was endangering lives. I think that he showed the power of friendship in this episode, and how although strong, how it differs from romantic love.
I also think that Kara is so lost right now, and she needs Lee more than ever, but I know there will be no scenes w/the two of them any time soon.
Also, Leoben gives me the creeps when he’s w/Kara; he has some wierd control over her. The scene when they are painting together, is downright spine tingling the way she can be controlled by him to some extent; emotionally and with some kind of sexual component, that is like what a victim of some kind of abuse (NC anyone?, Maelstrom?) that keeps her hooked to Leoben.. But now she can’t kill him, he can’t download, and she will never know her secret w/out him. The sad part is that the whole incident w/the Leoben, that wasn’t Leoben, had made her even more attached to him which makes their relationship even scarier, because I think SHE thinks he is something he is not. I can’t decide if that’s bad or good–I think it’s bad for Kara the person, but good for humanity.
She also has no one right now, and she is more isolated than ever, and more vulnerable than ever, which is why I think that she needs Lee more than ever. But she needs to take this journey alone–
As for Baltar? I still think he is a phony, and this is just his latest way of trying to find himself, so to speak, and save himself as well. Baltar has reached a point that with his genius, and tragic mistakes, and without being the “scientist”, he has no idea who he is. Since Six tells him that he has a destiny all the time, and makes him believe it, he does it. I still think he’s a coward, but I also think he is a survivor.
Finally, my last comments are about Starbuck being a cylon, and the answer is no. She passed the cylon test, which we know works because Baltar lied about Boomer. There is also no way Lee is a cylon either, it would be such bad writing if he was! I find Lee, Kara, Helo, Adama and Roslin some of the best characters on TV who illustrate what being human is all about.
A
May 5th, 2008 at 9:53 pm
Very intriguing pics, TightFighter. Did you notice the lighted cross above and between Gaius and Apollo on the overlay pic? Could it signify that either Lee or Gaius will emerge as an ultimate savior? Or is it perhaps implying that Anders (ghost-image hugging Lee and Kara) will end up a sort of martyr to the cause? Maybe it could even imply a sort of Holy Trinity (the Prophet, the Son, and the Holy Anders)?
May 5th, 2008 at 10:41 pm
Hey Tighfighter,
That website is awesome! It looks like Natalie is pointing at Helo. What if Helo is a cylon and the reason hera is so special is because she’s the first full cylon baby.
It also looks like natalie is pointing at tyrel. It looks lika an accusatory point. Perhaps Tyrel represents Judas. Maybe he will betray Baltar.
May 6th, 2008 at 5:58 am
JUST A COUPLE THINGS REAL QUICK….
ALTHOUGH UNTIL PROVEN WRONG (AS I HAVE STATED FOR MONTHS NOW) I THINK GAETA IS THE FINAL CYLON, THERE IS A GOOD DEAL OF CREADENCE TOWARDS THE POSSIBILITY THAT ROSYLN IS THE FINAL CYLON. SHE SHARED THE VISIONS, SHE HAS THINGS SHE MAY SEEK REDEMPTION FOR, AND SHE, LIKE ALL THE OTHER CYLONS GRAVITATED TOWARDS POWER, WETHER IT BE HER OWN, OR SOMEONE ELSES. REMEMBER SHE WAS HAVING AN AFFAIR WITH THE PRESIDENT BEFORE THE COLONIES WERE ATTACKED. BUT THAT’S JUST A THOUGHT. STILL THINK GAETA IS THE ONE.
AS FAR AS THE BEINGS OF LIGHT, AND COUNT IBLIS, AND ALL THAT OTHER STUFF…….. I REALLY THINK WE WON’T SEE ANY OF THAT IN THIS SERIES, IT WOULD CHANGE THE WHOLE TONE, AND FEELING OF THE SHOW. WHAT WE HAVE HAD THROUGHOUT THE SHOW, IS A “MILITARY DRAMA” WHICH JUST HAPPENS TO BE SET IN SPACE. IT’S ABOUT PEOPLE, CHARACTERS, THE HUMAN SPIRIT. THAT IS WHAT THE SHOW IS ABOUT. NOW I AGREE THAT SPIRITUALITY HAS ALOT TO DO WITH THE HUMAN CONDITION, THAT’S WHY WE HAVE ALL THE CONFILCT THAT THE CHARACTERS GO THROUGH IN REGARDS TO THEIR OWN SPIRITUALITY. WE HAVE ALL THE HEAD CHARACTERS, WE HAVE KARA’S DESTINY, AND THE HYBRID’S PROPHECY. BUT LETS BE HONEST, HOW ALIEN, AND FANTASTICAL, HAS THIS STORY REALLY BEEN? RON MOORE HAS SAID IN INTERVIEWS THAT HE WOULD NOT PUT ANY ALIENS IN THIS SERIES LIKE WAS DONE IN THE FIRST SERIES. I THINK THE MORE LIKELY OF THE OPTIONS BETWEEN RON MOORE BRINGING US TO A POINT WHERE WE WILL SEE “BEINGS OF LIGHT”, ATLANTIANS (ALTHOUGH THAT ONE I PERSONALLY LIKE), COUNT IBLIS, ACTUAL GODS FIGHTING, ……. OR A TRUELY HUMAN SAGA THAT HAS REALLY MADE PEOPLE THINK, AND SEE THINGS, THAT CONVENTIAL SHOWS, OR EVEN CONVENTIAL SCI FI, WON’T LET PEOPLE SEE.
IN THE END I THINK THERE MAY STILL BE ALOT OF QUESTIONS UNANSWERED,
WHO ARE THE HEAD CHARACTERS?
WHAT’S WITH THE BIRD PAINTED ON THE WALL IN BALTAR’S TEMPLE?
WHERE IS THE CYLON HOMEWORLD?
HOW CAN A HEAD CHARACTER AFFECT A PERSON LIKE BALTAR?
WHO WILL BALTAR GO ON TO BECOME, OR REPRESENT?
HOW DID THE FINAL FIVE COME TO BE DIFFERENT?
THE LIST GOES ON AND ON, BUT IN THE END EVEN THOUGH ALL THE QUESTIONS WE HAVE MIGHT NOT ALL BE ANSWERED, I THINK WE WILL ALL BE SATISFIED. STORIES DON’T ALWAYS TIE UP EVERY LOOSE END, ONLY THE IMPORTANT ONES THAT DIRECTLY AFFECT THE MAIN POINT AND DIRECTION OF THE STORY.
THIS STORY IS ABOUT WHAT IT IS TO BE HUMAN, AND TO SURVIVE EVEN IN THE MOST EXTREME CONDITIONS, IT’S ABOUT PEOPLE, AND CHARACTERS. THIS IS THE REASON THIS SHOW GETS SO MUCH CRITICAL ACCLAIM. IT GETS TO PEOPLE OF ALL BACKGROUNDS, ALL WALKS OF LIFE, EVEN PEOPLE THAT HATE SCI FI HAVE FALLEN IN LOVE WITH THIS STORY. SO I PERSONALLY DON’T EXPECT THAT ALIENS OR BEINGS OF LIGHT, OR ANYTHING THAT WOULD CHANGE THE TONE OF THE SERIES WILL ALL THE SUDDEN POP UP ANYTIME SOON.
BUT THAT’S JUST MY OPINION, AS ALWAYS I MAY BE COMPLETELY WRONG, ONLY TIME, AND RON MOORE WILL TELL.
THANKS MATT, AND NAT LOVE THE SHOW, ALMOST AS ADDICTING AS BATTLESTAR ITSELF.
May 6th, 2008 at 5:59 am
JUST A COUPLE THINGS REAL QUICK….
ALTHOUGH UNTIL PROVEN WRONG (AS I HAVE STATED FOR MONTHS NOW) I THINK GAETA IS THE FINAL CYLON, THERE IS A GOOD DEAL OF CREADENCE TOWARDS THE POSSIBILITY THAT ROSYLN IS THE FINAL CYLON. SHE SHARED THE VISIONS, SHE HAS THINGS SHE MAY SEEK REDEMPTION FOR, AND SHE, LIKE ALL THE OTHER CYLONS GRAVITATED TOWARDS POWER, WETHER IT BE HER OWN, OR SOMEONE ELSES. REMEMBER SHE WAS HAVING AN AFFAIR WITH THE PRESIDENT BEFORE THE COLONIES WERE ATTACKED. BUT THAT’S JUST A THOUGHT. STILL THINK GAETA IS THE ONE.
AS FAR AS THE BEINGS OF LIGHT, AND COUNT IBLIS, AND ALL THAT OTHER STUFF…….. I REALLY THINK WE WON’T SEE ANY OF THAT IN THIS SERIES, IT WOULD CHANGE THE WHOLE TONE, AND FEELING OF THE SHOW. WHAT WE HAVE HAD THROUGHOUT THE SHOW, IS A “MILITARY DRAMA” WHICH JUST HAPPENS TO BE SET IN SPACE. IT’S ABOUT PEOPLE, CHARACTERS, THE HUMAN SPIRIT. THAT IS WHAT THE SHOW IS ABOUT. NOW I AGREE THAT SPIRITUALITY HAS ALOT TO DO WITH THE HUMAN CONDITION, THAT’S WHY WE HAVE ALL THE CONFILCT THAT THE CHARACTERS GO THROUGH IN REGARDS TO THEIR OWN SPIRITUALITY. WE HAVE ALL THE HEAD CHARACTERS, WE HAVE KARA’S DESTINY, AND THE HYBRID’S PROPHECY. BUT LETS BE HONEST, HOW ALIEN, AND FANTASTICAL, HAS THIS STORY REALLY BEEN? RON MOORE HAS SAID IN INTERVIEWS THAT HE WOULD NOT PUT ANY ALIENS IN THIS SERIES LIKE WAS DONE IN THE FIRST SERIES. I THINK THE MORE LIKELY OF THE OPTIONS BETWEEN RON MOORE BRINGING US TO A POINT WHERE WE WILL SEE “BEINGS OF LIGHT”, ATLANTIANS (ALTHOUGH THAT ONE I PERSONALLY LIKE), COUNT IBLIS, ACTUAL GODS FIGHTING, ……. OR A TRUELY HUMAN SAGA THAT HAS REALLY MADE PEOPLE THINK, AND SEE THINGS, THAT CONVENTIAL SHOWS, OR EVEN CONVENTIAL SCI FI, WON’T LET PEOPLE SEE.
IN THE END I THINK THERE MAY STILL BE ALOT OF QUESTIONS UNANSWERED,
WHO ARE THE HEAD CHARACTERS?
WHAT’S WITH THE BIRD PAINTED ON THE WALL IN BALTAR’S TEMPLE?
WHERE IS THE CYLON HOMEWORLD?
HOW CAN A HEAD CHARACTER AFFECT A PERSON LIKE BALTAR?
WHO WILL BALTAR GO ON TO BECOME, OR REPRESENT?
HOW DID THE FINAL FIVE COME TO BE DIFFERENT?
THE LIST GOES ON AND ON, BUT IN THE END EVEN THOUGH ALL THE QUESTIONS WE HAVE MIGHT NOT ALL BE ANSWERED, I THINK WE WILL ALL BE SATISFIED. STORIES DON’T ALWAYS TIE UP EVERY LOOSE END, ONLY THE IMPORTANT ONES THAT DIRECTLY AFFECT THE MAIN POINT AND DIRECTION OF THE STORY.
THIS STORY IS ABOUT WHAT IT IS TO BE HUMAN, AND TO SURVIVE EVEN IN THE MOST EXTREME CONDITIONS, IT’S ABOUT PEOPLE, AND CHARACTERS. THIS IS THE REASON THIS SHOW GETS SO MUCH CRITICAL ACCLAIM. IT GETS TO PEOPLE OF ALL BACKGROUNDS, ALL WALKS OF LIFE, EVEN PEOPLE THAT HATE SCI FI HAVE FALLEN IN LOVE WITH THIS STORY. SO I PERSONALLY DON’T EXPECT THAT ALIENS OR BEINGS OF LIGHT, OR ANYTHING THAT WOULD CHANGE THE TONE OF THE SERIES WILL ALL THE SUDDEN POP UP ANYTIME SOON.
BUT THAT’S JUST MY OPINION, AS ALWAYS I MAY BE COMPLETELY WRONG, ONLY TIME, AND RON MOORE WILL TELL.
THANKS MATT, AND NAT LOVE THE SHOW, ALMOST AS ADDICTING AS BATTLESTAR ITSELF.
May 6th, 2008 at 5:59 am
JUST A COUPLE THINGS REAL QUICK….
ALTHOUGH UNTIL PROVEN WRONG (AS I HAVE STATED FOR MONTHS NOW) I THINK GAETA IS THE FINAL CYLON, THERE IS A GOOD DEAL OF CREADENCE TOWARDS THE POSSIBILITY THAT ROSYLN IS THE FINAL CYLON. SHE SHARED THE VISIONS, SHE HAS THINGS SHE MAY SEEK REDEMPTION FOR, AND SHE, LIKE ALL THE OTHER CYLONS GRAVITATED TOWARDS POWER, WETHER IT BE HER OWN, OR SOMEONE ELSES. REMEMBER SHE WAS HAVING AN AFFAIR WITH THE PRESIDENT BEFORE THE COLONIES WERE ATTACKED. BUT THAT’S JUST A THOUGHT. STILL THINK GAETA IS THE ONE.
AS FAR AS THE BEINGS OF LIGHT, AND COUNT IBLIS, AND ALL THAT OTHER STUFF…….. I REALLY THINK WE WON’T SEE ANY OF THAT IN THIS SERIES, IT WOULD CHANGE THE WHOLE TONE, AND FEELING OF THE SHOW. WHAT WE HAVE HAD THROUGHOUT THE SHOW, IS A “MILITARY DRAMA” WHICH JUST HAPPENS TO BE SET IN SPACE. IT’S ABOUT PEOPLE, CHARACTERS, THE HUMAN SPIRIT. THAT IS WHAT THE SHOW IS ABOUT. NOW I AGREE THAT SPIRITUALITY HAS ALOT TO DO WITH THE HUMAN CONDITION, THAT’S WHY WE HAVE ALL THE CONFILCT THAT THE CHARACTERS GO THROUGH IN REGARDS TO THEIR OWN SPIRITUALITY. WE HAVE ALL THE HEAD CHARACTERS, WE HAVE KARA’S DESTINY, AND THE HYBRID’S PROPHECY. BUT LETS BE HONEST, HOW ALIEN, AND FANTASTICAL, HAS THIS STORY REALLY BEEN? RON MOORE HAS SAID IN INTERVIEWS THAT HE WOULD NOT PUT ANY ALIENS IN THIS SERIES LIKE WAS DONE IN THE FIRST SERIES. I THINK THE MORE LIKELY OF THE OPTIONS BETWEEN RON MOORE BRINGING US TO A POINT WHERE WE WILL SEE “BEINGS OF LIGHT”, ATLANTIANS (ALTHOUGH THAT ONE I PERSONALLY LIKE), COUNT IBLIS, ACTUAL GODS FIGHTING, ……. OR A TRUELY HUMAN SAGA THAT HAS REALLY MADE PEOPLE THINK, AND SEE THINGS, THAT CONVENTIAL SHOWS, OR EVEN CONVENTIAL SCI FI, WON’T LET PEOPLE SEE.
IN THE END I THINK THERE MAY STILL BE ALOT OF QUESTIONS UNANSWERED,
WHO ARE THE HEAD CHARACTERS?
WHAT’S WITH THE BIRD PAINTED ON THE WALL IN BALTAR’S TEMPLE?
WHERE IS THE CYLON HOMEWORLD?
HOW CAN A HEAD CHARACTER AFFECT A PERSON LIKE BALTAR?
WHO WILL BALTAR GO ON TO BECOME, OR REPRESENT?
HOW DID THE FINAL FIVE COME TO BE DIFFERENT?
THE LIST GOES ON AND ON, BUT IN THE END EVEN THOUGH ALL THE QUESTIONS WE HAVE MIGHT NOT ALL BE ANSWERED, I THINK WE WILL ALL BE SATISFIED. STORIES DON’T ALWAYS TIE UP EVERY LOOSE END, ONLY THE IMPORTANT ONES THAT DIRECTLY AFFECT THE MAIN POINT AND DIRECTION OF THE STORY.
THIS STORY IS ABOUT WHAT IT IS TO BE HUMAN, AND TO SURVIVE EVEN IN THE MOST EXTREME CONDITIONS, IT’S ABOUT PEOPLE, AND CHARACTERS. THIS IS THE REASON THIS SHOW GETS SO MUCH CRITICAL ACCLAIM. IT GETS TO PEOPLE OF ALL BACKGROUNDS, ALL WALKS OF LIFE, EVEN PEOPLE THAT HATE SCI FI HAVE FALLEN IN LOVE WITH THIS STORY. SO I PERSONALLY DON’T EXPECT THAT ALIENS OR BEINGS OF LIGHT, OR ANYTHING THAT WOULD CHANGE THE TONE OF THE SERIES WILL ALL THE SUDDEN POP UP ANYTIME SOON.
BUT THAT’S JUST MY OPINION, AS ALWAYS I MAY BE COMPLETELY WRONG, ONLY TIME, AND RON MOORE WILL TELL.
THANKS MATT, AND NAT LOVE THE SHOW, ALMOST AS ADDICTING AS BATTLESTAR ITSELF.
May 6th, 2008 at 5:59 am
JUST A COUPLE THINGS REAL QUICK….
ALTHOUGH UNTIL PROVEN WRONG (AS I HAVE STATED FOR MONTHS NOW) I THINK GAETA IS THE FINAL CYLON, THERE IS A GOOD DEAL OF CREADENCE TOWARDS THE POSSIBILITY THAT ROSYLN IS THE FINAL CYLON. SHE SHARED THE VISIONS, SHE HAS THINGS SHE MAY SEEK REDEMPTION FOR, AND SHE, LIKE ALL THE OTHER CYLONS GRAVITATED TOWARDS POWER, WETHER IT BE HER OWN, OR SOMEONE ELSES. REMEMBER SHE WAS HAVING AN AFFAIR WITH THE PRESIDENT BEFORE THE COLONIES WERE ATTACKED. BUT THAT’S JUST A THOUGHT. STILL THINK GAETA IS THE ONE.
AS FAR AS THE BEINGS OF LIGHT, AND COUNT IBLIS, AND ALL THAT OTHER STUFF…….. I REALLY THINK WE WON’T SEE ANY OF THAT IN THIS SERIES, IT WOULD CHANGE THE WHOLE TONE, AND FEELING OF THE SHOW. WHAT WE HAVE HAD THROUGHOUT THE SHOW, IS A “MILITARY DRAMA” WHICH JUST HAPPENS TO BE SET IN SPACE. IT’S ABOUT PEOPLE, CHARACTERS, THE HUMAN SPIRIT. THAT IS WHAT THE SHOW IS ABOUT. NOW I AGREE THAT SPIRITUALITY HAS ALOT TO DO WITH THE HUMAN CONDITION, THAT’S WHY WE HAVE ALL THE CONFILCT THAT THE CHARACTERS GO THROUGH IN REGARDS TO THEIR OWN SPIRITUALITY. WE HAVE ALL THE HEAD CHARACTERS, WE HAVE KARA’S DESTINY, AND THE HYBRID’S PROPHECY. BUT LETS BE HONEST, HOW ALIEN, AND FANTASTICAL, HAS THIS STORY REALLY BEEN? RON MOORE HAS SAID IN INTERVIEWS THAT HE WOULD NOT PUT ANY ALIENS IN THIS SERIES LIKE WAS DONE IN THE FIRST SERIES. I THINK THE MORE LIKELY OF THE OPTIONS BETWEEN RON MOORE BRINGING US TO A POINT WHERE WE WILL SEE “BEINGS OF LIGHT”, ATLANTIANS (ALTHOUGH THAT ONE I PERSONALLY LIKE), COUNT IBLIS, ACTUAL GODS FIGHTING, ……. OR A TRUELY HUMAN SAGA THAT HAS REALLY MADE PEOPLE THINK, AND SEE THINGS, THAT CONVENTIAL SHOWS, OR EVEN CONVENTIAL SCI FI, WON’T LET PEOPLE SEE.
IN THE END I THINK THERE MAY STILL BE ALOT OF QUESTIONS UNANSWERED,
WHO ARE THE HEAD CHARACTERS?
WHAT’S WITH THE BIRD PAINTED ON THE WALL IN BALTAR’S TEMPLE?
WHERE IS THE CYLON HOMEWORLD?
HOW CAN A HEAD CHARACTER AFFECT A PERSON LIKE BALTAR?
WHO WILL BALTAR GO ON TO BECOME, OR REPRESENT?
HOW DID THE FINAL FIVE COME TO BE DIFFERENT?
THE LIST GOES ON AND ON, BUT IN THE END EVEN THOUGH ALL THE QUESTIONS WE HAVE MIGHT NOT ALL BE ANSWERED, I THINK WE WILL ALL BE SATISFIED. STORIES DON’T ALWAYS TIE UP EVERY LOOSE END, ONLY THE IMPORTANT ONES THAT DIRECTLY AFFECT THE MAIN POINT AND DIRECTION OF THE STORY.
THIS STORY IS ABOUT WHAT IT IS TO BE HUMAN, AND TO SURVIVE EVEN IN THE MOST EXTREME CONDITIONS, IT’S ABOUT PEOPLE, AND CHARACTERS. THIS IS THE REASON THIS SHOW GETS SO MUCH CRITICAL ACCLAIM. IT GETS TO PEOPLE OF ALL BACKGROUNDS, ALL WALKS OF LIFE, EVEN PEOPLE THAT HATE SCI FI HAVE FALLEN IN LOVE WITH THIS STORY. SO I PERSONALLY DON’T EXPECT THAT ALIENS OR BEINGS OF LIGHT, OR ANYTHING THAT WOULD CHANGE THE TONE OF THE SERIES WILL ALL THE SUDDEN POP UP ANYTIME SOON.
BUT THAT’S JUST MY OPINION, AS ALWAYS I MAY BE COMPLETELY WRONG, ONLY TIME, AND RON MOORE WILL TELL.
THANKS MATT, AND NAT LOVE THE SHOW, ALMOST AS ADDICTING AS BATTLESTAR ITSELF.
May 6th, 2008 at 6:14 am
I DON’T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED THERE BUT WHEN I TRIED TO SUBMIT MY COMMENT IT SAID THE SERVER WAS BUSY, SORRY EVERYBODY…LOL ….. NOT SURE WHY IT POSTED LIKE 4 TIMES.
May 6th, 2008 at 6:24 am
Found this video that uses scenes from the first 5 episodes of season 4. I think it is great and most of you would enjoy it.
May 6th, 2008 at 6:25 am
Oops. I guess it will not post to the thread. So, I included the video in website link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErVeUrxhmLw
May 6th, 2008 at 7:27 am
In regards to the “last supper” pic….
What if Tigh is looking at whoever is supposed to be sitting there? How did his wife die? By drinking poison. Ellen was dead, which may be why she is not sitting at the table. The “grail” could represent the event of her resurrection, and Tigh is reacting to her return.
Far out, I know, but that’s all I got XD.
May 6th, 2008 at 7:37 am
MAJIK Says:
WHAT’S WITH THE BIRD PAINTED ON THE WALL IN BALTAR’S TEMPLE?
First thought that passed through my mind was the story of Noah and the Dove he sent out that came back with the olive branch. Almost every ancient religion has some mention of a great flood/destruction of the earth, how ironic that the survivors of the cylon destruction could be compared to the Flood story of Noah.
May 6th, 2008 at 10:59 am
With aspects of the Hybrid prophecy from Razor coming up in nearly every episode, I thought I’d point out a few interesting ideas on one particular line.
“They will know enmity, bitterness, the wrenching agony of the one splintering into the many and then they will join the promised land, gathered on the wings of an Angel.”
Now, we have Leoben directly calling Kara Thrace an angel. It’s obvious she’s is meant to (at least in part, but we’ll get to that) fit the bill of the gathering angel. But the imagery used could have a slightly broader implication as well. In particular, the imagery of the angel’s “wings”. If you wanted to take that literally, look at the tattoo on Kara’s arm. It’s a wing. Just one. But it matches with the tattoo on Anders’ arm, at which point the combined image becomes ‘wings’. While it is Kara’s destiny to gather everyone to earth, I’d say a large part of that depends on Anders as well. It’s be another great opportunity to really hammer home the concept of uniting, despite whatever fairly petty differences (being Cylon or human) seem to stand in the way.
May 6th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
This site is amazing. I love all of the different theories.
Here is mine:
At last, they’ve come for me. I feel their lives, their destinies spilling out before me. NOTHING
The denial of the one true path, played out on a world not their own, will end soon enough. i THINK THE HYBRID IS REFERING TO THE 7 CYLONS. THEIR ONE TRUE PATH IS THE PATH TO THEIR HOME WORLD AND/OR EARTH. THE WORLD NOT THEIR OWN IS CAPRICA AND SUPOSEDLY THEY END THEIR OCCUPATION AT THE END OF SEASON 2.
Soon there will be four, glorious in awakening, struggling with the knowledge of their true selves, the pain of revelation bringing new clarity, AWAKENING OF THE FINAL 4/5
and in the ()midst of confusion, he will find her. KARA AND LEOBEN
Enemies brought together by impossible longing, enemies now joined as one. LEOBEN LEADS KARA TO THE FALLEN BASE STARS WITH THE 2 6 8 AND THEN TELLS GALACTICA ABOUT IT AND THEY UNITE.
The way forward at once unthinkable, yet inevitable. WAY TO EARTH(OR WHATEVER IT ACTUALY ENDS UP BEING OR THE WAY TO THE CYLON HOME WORLD)
And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering. (AFTER READING ALL UR THEROIES I DONT KNOW WHO IT IS I JUST KNOW THAT IT ISNT KARA OR LEE)
I can see them all. The seven, now six, (FROM THE TIME LINE OF THE HYBRID, THE ONLY UNKNOWN CYLON OF THE 7 IS BROTHER CAVEL/1 )self-described machines who believe themselves without sin, but in time, it is sin that will consume them. They will know enmity, bitterness, the wrenching agony of the one splintering into the many(CYLON CIVIL WAR), and then they (NOT SURE WHO THEY IS JUST YET)will join the promised-land, gathered on the wings of an angel(LEAD BY GALACTICA, THE 2 SIDE HANGER DECKS R LIKE WINGS). Not an end, but a beginning.(CYCLE)
My theories on the numbering system is they are in order of how much/ how close they are to the humans/colonials.
sharon has a baby, is with fleet and in love with helo
1/ cavil- hates the humans and was all for killing then on NEW caprica, doesn’t consider Hera important
2/ Leoben- crazily spiritual, he thinks of himself as almost godlike.
3/ D’anna- also crazily spiritual, but was able to love Hera
45 simon doral- cavils henchmen
6/ feel in love with baltar and regrets helping the cylons comit genocide
7/ this tory (least human, enjoys being a cylon)or the finial cylon
9-12 they just found out they were cylons
May 6th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
What I found interestering with the last supper analysis was the relatonship between Tyrol and Baltar. More so, considering the final scene with the two this episode. The other thing about Baltar that struck me was that his eyeline in the overlay shot looks like he is looking at Helo.
May 6th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
Just a quick note on here. While watching Battlestar last week I got called out to a fire. I got hit with 220 volts and got some good electrical burns and a couple days in the hospital. I am home now but haven’t watched the show yet. I want to be clear headed when I watch it. Hopfully I’ll watch it this friday.
Take care all and don’t leave candels unatended.
May 6th, 2008 at 4:40 pm
I hope youre alright now Jim! I think you guys have the hardest job ever…and most of the time its a result of someone’s carelessness. Anyway hopefully you’ll catch the episode later on during the week since it was the 1st part of 2.
May 6th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
Hope you recover quick Jim. It is both a wonderfull and a scary job that you do. Last August, there was a fire were we lived. I don’t need to tell you what a mess it was for everybody who had to go through it. I guess you’ve seen that kind of hell happen way to often. Anyways, good luck on your recovery.
May 6th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
I rewatched Razor tonight and I’m still on the fence about Adm. Caine being the final cylon. it would seem most of the major characters from BSG have had some relationship with a cylon, including Adm. Caine (with Gina).
-Kara/Anders
-Tyrol/Cally
-Tigh/Ellen
-Caprica 6/Baltar
-Tory/Baltar
-Helo/Sharon
-Adm Caine/Gina
-D’Anna/Baltar
Also, there’s the flashback scene in Razor where we see a young Helena Caine and her sister trying to escape from centurions. Helena hides in a shipping container and a centurion walks in and points his gun at her while she’s standing there with razorblade in hand. The centurion doesn’t kill her, the same way the cylon raider didn’t fire on Anders. I think the speculation is that the final five were the predecessers to the current cylon models. also, they never really explain how skinjobs are created, other than the fact that they are resurrected in a tub of goo when they die. are they clones? are they grown? my guess is that the final five were the first successful cylon skinjobs that could grow from childhood to adulthood. it might also explain D’Anna’s comment when she sees the final five – something to the effect of, “please forgive us. we didn’t know.” this could mean that had Gina known she was a cylon she wouldn’t have killed Caine for torturing her. also, why create an entire backstory on Caine and the Pegasus? surely RDM wanted to tell us something.
May 6th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
Hi Gaseous Clay,
I love that theory! I’ve so wanted Adm Cain to be the last cylon because she’a just such a good villian. Even though I hated her I loved her if that makes sense. But all signs pointed to it not being her, and closer to being Kendra. This is the first theory I’ve seen that makes a plausable case for Cain being a cylon. I’ve never seen the scene where Cain is a kid with her sister being over passed by centurians. I’ve heard about it but I guess you need the DVD’s to see that part. Everything made sense except for the D’anna part. D’anna to my knowledge never met Cain, and I think that even if Cain was a cylon Gina would still have killed her. Hell I would have killed her. There are some things you just don’t do, even in war and Cain crossed the line with Gina. That’s my feelings on it. However the rest of the theory to me makes a lot of sense. I love the list at the top. Baltar is paired with 3 different cylons hehe Soon 6 will be paired with 3. Baltar, Cain and soon Tigh. (at least I’m pretty sure Tigh will sleep with her eventually)
May 6th, 2008 at 8:14 pm
I figured the cylons are all part of a network; what one cylon knows every cylon knows. since Gina had relations with Caine then it seems logical that once Gina died her knowledge/memory of Caine went with her when she resurrected. Thus, D’anna and all the other cylons knew of her. It would also be a big whoa moment similar to when Tigh found out he was a cylon – Caine hated the cylons just as much as Tigh did, if not more for taking her sister when she was a child.
May 6th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
Gina did not ressurrect. She killed herself out of range of a ressurection ship. The cylons didn’t find the radiation signature until a year laters implying they were very far away. And I’m pretty sure that when they download into new bodies the information is transferred to the rest of thier model not the entire cylon race. At least I’m pretty sure. However Athena said it is possible to resist this process upon downloading.
But I just remembered something that makes it almost impossible for Cain to be a cylon. She’s dead. The final 5 have no cloned bodies waiting for them on ressurection ships. (Unless they do and we don’t know about it.) Maybe they are on a mysterious ship somewhere that the other cylons don’t know about. In that respect it is almost impossible for Cain to be a cylon. Which makes me sad cause I want to see her character back again. However the cylons did take Lucy Cain… maybe she is a cylon?
May 6th, 2008 at 10:15 pm
Ok so I found a pretty compelling website. I wish I could take credit for this but I can’t. It’s based on the theory that everything in BSG revolves around the number 12. It’s a site on how Dualla is the final cylon. I totally reccomend reading it. http://www.cellounge.com/2008/04/27/the-final-cylon-will-be-revealed-now/
In Greek Anastasia means Ressurections. Just like Envier (Gina’s last name) is Geminon for Ressurection. Dualla means 2, or double. Possibly meaning 2 faced or double persona etc… She’s got her human side but she’s actually a cylon. She is also Saggitaron which is 12 in the signs of the zodiac. In Valley of Darkness when Centurians borded Galactica and slaughtered all those people Dualla was the only one spared. Perhaps similar to the raiders avoiding killing Anders. Also in the Tomb of Athena the Saggitarious statue is missing it’s arrow when the arrow is placed in they see the path to earth. And Saggitarius is ruled by the planet Jupiter is astrology. D’anna saw the faces of the final 5 through the eye of Jupiter.
An Excerpt from the site.
“Not to mention that it not common knowledge but Jupiter does have rings around. The rings around Jupiter are just not as pronounced as Saturn’s. Most people would assume that the three stars Starbuck talks about mean the three stars on Orion’s belt. However there is another “three” star configuration in our galaxy called the “Sagittarius triplet”. The “Sagittarius triplet” is located in the Sagittarius constellation and consists of the Lagoon Nebula, Trifid Nebula, and NGC 6559, which is a star. Combined they look like three stars, because they are far away from earth and they are relatively close together. ”
When they are in that hologrammy place in the tomb of Athena Lee points to the sky and says he can see the Lagoon Nebula.
Plus we know the final 5 can get sick because Anders had pneumonia on New Caprica, so it still fits in that Dualla got sick in “woman king”
I don’t know who wrote this site but it’s a very compelling theory.
May 6th, 2008 at 10:37 pm
Shweeet! Didn’t get a t-shirt, but I got mentioned for the ‘toon I found, which is also kinda cool:) I just wish I could claim having drawn it. Is it just me, or did everyone else think the guy Starbuck punched out of the frame had to be Hotdog?
May 7th, 2008 at 1:34 am
About Athena being “another whiney pilot” and why she hasn’t interacted with Leoban: I think that when it comes to the whole situation with what Leoban told them about the Civil War, I don’t think she wants to believe Leoban because she thought it was a trap like everyone else. She probably still believes that the Cylons are living in unity, thinking there’d be no way for them to be split on anything (remember Natalie’s reaction when Boomer voted for the lobotomization of the Raiders in “Six of One”? Same thing). So, she probably thought Leoban was trying to lead them into a trap. Plus, when she swore her oath to serve the Galactica, everyone there became her “race”, so to speak. Remember what the infected Model 8 called her at the beginning of Season 3’s “A Measure of Salvation”? “Traitor.” That right there only drove home the fact, to her, that she was no longer considered one of the Cylon because she turned her back on them to be with Helo. Plus, she knows about the Leoban models more than the humans do, and know that they mix lies with truth and that trying to get the truth from him would be useless.
Another thing is that I think is the reason why she reacts the way she does throughout the episode, even more so about Starbuck being crazy towards the end of the episode, you’d have to put yourself in her shoes. If you were her, and your brothers and sisters were in a Civil War, would you really jump into the middle of what might be an active battlefield and get yourself killed (which is what Starbuck was having them do before the crew decided to mutany)? Even better, would you want to jump into a battlefield with your spouse and get him killed? Even more than that, would you want to get your crewmates, the people you sworn to protect and serve with, killed? With that in mind, the answer would be no to all. She may be a Cylon, but she’s not suicidal or stupid enough to risk the lives of the others to agree to help. She may want to, but she’s not going to say it. And siding on the behalf of her fellow crew mates when it comes to survival makes sense, even if she is a Cylon.
It’s plain and simple logic: survival. Her actions and reactions in this episode is no different than what she told Helo when he told her about what Adama and Roslin were planning to do in “A Measure of Salvation”. She’ll do her job, even if she’s the last Cylon in the universe.
The same thing can be said about Helo. If you recall what was going on in the episode, the pistol whip scene actually involved a crew member who was going to attempt to cause some harm to Starbuck. But when it came to Helo joining in the mutany, I think he sided on the idea of not wanting to get him and the others killed (even more so with his wife, because Hera only has him and Athena, no one else). So, all he was doing was trying to keep the peace between a leader who may have a loose screw and the crew who are already on edge.
BTW, the pilots get out to the Vipers by using their flight suits with helmets on. If you look, you can see there is a walkway that leads from the platform that the Vipers are on. And if I’m correct, seeing that there have been many times where we’ve seen a Raptor opening its door in outer space and then seal itself and allow for a breathable confinement after sealing, the same thing could be said with the Vipers, that they too have the ability to repressurize their cabin. And we know the flight suits have their own oxygen supply (as it was one of the important details in both Season 1’s “You Can’t Go Home Again” and Season 2’s “Resurrection Ship, Part 2″). So, they put on their flight suits with helmets, make sure the O2 is on, step into the airlock, wait for the pressurize to match that of space and simply walk out at a normal pace (if you pay attention to last week’s episode, before Racetrack’s Raptor crash, you can see someone in a space suit walking along the runway for the landing pod at a normal pace (this person waved at the Raptor as it was going by) or they pull themselves along the rail until they reach the Viper.
Of course, this is just me and my creative writing POV coming in here. I could be wrong.
May 7th, 2008 at 3:15 am
“Gina did not ressurrect. She killed herself out of range of a ressurection ship. The cylons didn’t find the radiation signature until a year laters implying they were very far away. And I’m pretty sure that when they download into new bodies the information is transferred to the rest of thier model not the entire cylon race. At least I’m pretty sure. However Athena said it is possible to resist this process upon downloading.
But I just remembered something that makes it almost impossible for Cain to be a cylon. She’s dead. The final 5 have no cloned bodies waiting for them on ressurection ships. (Unless they do and we don’t know about it.) Maybe they are on a mysterious ship somewhere that the other cylons don’t know about. In that respect it is almost impossible for Cain to be a cylon. Which makes me sad cause I want to see her character back again. However the cylons did take Lucy Cain… maybe she is a cylon?”
*slaps forehead*. I forgot about there not being a resurrection ship nearby when Gina killed herself. that begs another question, are the final five the only models of their kind then? as of yet we don’t know if they can resurrect into new bodies – I guess maybe that’s what sets them apart from the others. bah, it’d still be interesting if the final cylon was in fact some character that died in an earlier season. it just seemed like Razor was meant to set us up with more information besides the whole thing about the hybrid and his prophecy.
May 7th, 2008 at 6:05 am
When the words “Gaius Hefner” appeared on the screen I laughed so hard that I spewed coffee all over my monitor.
Just thought someone should be informed.
May 7th, 2008 at 7:47 am
HAy that’s my name!lol
Another Good Episode, Or is it webisode!?!?!?
I really Think 2 Knows Sam is a cylon.
But really I don’t have much to say this week…
May 7th, 2008 at 8:57 am
I just got done watching the webisode, great job as usual!!
All I have to say is that Hair issues? Tory’s hair got bigger adn she turned out to be a final four!!
May 7th, 2008 at 9:08 am
This was another great episode. I’m one of the few people who actually enjoys the Demetris storyline. However, like many other viewers, I have a lot of problems with it.
First and foremost: the issue of Hera. I understand the practical reasons for Hera not being on the Demetris. Obviously it’s no place for a child and if Hera was around, she’d just get in the way of the rest of the storyline. Can you picture Athena running off to give Hera a bath in the middle of the mutiny? I think not. I also understand that the role of Hera may not have been recast at the time they filmed these episodes. No actress = no Hera. All of this is fine. BUT: Why would Helo pick his wife for a mission he was already going on knowing that it would leave their child alone on Galactica? Assuming he had no choice and Adama ordered both Helo and Athena to go with Kara, why would neither of them EVER mention her? When Athena was trying to convince Helo that Kara was in the wrong and they needed to ditch the cylons and get back to Galactica ALL she would’ve had to say was: “I need to check on Hera or What if Hera needs us or What if we both DIE on this mission and our daughter is left all alone with only Gaius frakkin’ Baltar to protect her?” I guarantee that if Athena had even mentioned Hera, it would’ve driven the point home for Helo. Yes, he’s a very dedicated officer, but as we’ve seen in the past, he ALWAYS puts his family first and I have no doubt that he would’ve done the same in this situation.
The next big problem with the Demetris storyline (or ANY storyline so far this season) is the white-washing of Athena’s cylon-ness. In the season opener, the logical thing would’ve been to ask the only known cylon standing on the deck at the moment “Um, is crazy Kara a cylon or is she simply the goddess Aurora reborn?”…or something along those lines. Then we have the new cylon development: Leoben comes aboard the ship, yet has NO interaction with Athena? There is a plan to possibly side with the cylons and aide them in their civil war and Athena’s opinion isn’t given any more weight than any of the other officers’? I adore RDM, but you’d think SOME of this stuff would come up in the writers’ room. And let’s not forget: In the second season episode, The Farm, Athena points out that Kara has a destiny and Leoben told her that. If Athena believed this at the time, when did she stop? And if she still believes this, why isn’t she more supportive of Kara or at least trying to convince Kara that even though she has a destiny, this may not be it?
With all of the problems in the Demetris storyline, this was still a great episode. Why? Leoben. Anytime you put Katee and CKR in a scene together, you know you’re going get something fantastic. Those two have such an incredible chemistry and they’re characters bring out such interesting emotions in each other. I also loved the Anders stuff in this episode. It’s so nice to see him start to come into his own. Yeah, he’s still supporting Kara in all of her craziness but at least he’s getting some screen-time with other characters. And Helo, my beloved Helo. How cool was he in this episode? I love the relationship between Helo and Kara and I think they’re connection makes both characters so much more complex. Tahmoh Penikett did a really lovely job with this episode and I can’t wait to see what happens next.
Onto the rest of the episode: How can you not love Gaius Baltar? All those scenes between Callis and Douglas were incredible. And who knew a tiny handshake could say so much? I think Tyrol counts as someone significant because he’s well-respected by the people. The officers respect him because he’s “The Chief” and the civilians respect him because he lead them in the union and the Resistance. So, I think if he starts listening to Baltar, other people may follow. Or at least, that’s what I think Baltar is counting on.
Overall, this was one of the better episodes of the season (Tory’s pimp-slap notwithstanding), but it still wasn’t great. If the writers would just MENTION Hera or Athena’s cylon-ness, it’d be much easier for me to get into the storyline. Guess we’ll wait and see…
May 7th, 2008 at 9:42 am
I completely agree with the hair changing detail. Starbuck had long hair on New Caprica, and she cut it when she finally got back on the horse in “Torn”. Boomer and Athena’s hair was longer in the first two seasons but was shorter in Season 3 (not many people noticed, but I did. The length is definately noticeable when they have their air in a ponytail). Of course, everyone’s hairstyle changed between the mini-series and the start of the actual show, reflecting on how they neglected their appearance in order to make their survival priority number 1.
May 7th, 2008 at 10:39 am
mfirefly10- To answer your first question as to why Helo chose his wife, it’s a rather simple explanation: The mission was about getting to Earth following Starbuck’s direction. Plus, she knows more about Cylons than any of the humans combined, so in case they need some Cylon information or come across a situation in which such knowledge is needed, it’s best to have the most qualified person with the most knowledge (this same thing applied to Athena helping out with the virus in “Flight of the Phoenix”. Adama even refered to her as a “Cylon expert”). Athena was the best qualified expert because she is a Cylon.
May 7th, 2008 at 11:51 am
matt + nat pointed out Leoben’s smackdown by Anders. But Leoben has been getting smackdowns since the show started. He got his head smashed in with a pipe by Adama, interrogated/beaten by Kara, stabbed multiple times by Kara (while in captivity on New Caprica), Airlocked by Roslin, etc. the guy just can’t cut a break can he?
May 7th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
“Very intriguing pics, TightFighter. Did you notice the lighted cross above and between Gaius and Apollo on the overlay pic? Could it signify that either Lee or Gaius will emerge as an ultimate savior?”
OMG librlmeh, You are so right about the cross. I didn’t notice it before. Look at the postion the cross is in. To me the cross looks like it is in the pose from the bible when Christ is dragging the cross to his crucifixion. With the way Baltar is turned the cross fits perfectly over his shoulder if you move that image down. I don’nt think it necessarily means Baltar is the final cylon, but that he will be sacrificed or crucified some point in the season.
Heh, It’s funny in RDM’s podcast he flat out denies the Baltar/Jesus comparsion. With the way the season has been setting Baltar up as a messiah, the Jesus/Fish:Baltar:Bird ananlogy, and know this discovery, I ‘m having a hard time believing Moore.
May 7th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
I thought the Road Less was so lame. I’m really pumped abouth Faith, and I LOVED the faith dance matt + nat AMAZING!!!
~Sam Kellie
May 7th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Hi Matt+Nat, I just wanted to say how much I’ve enjoyed your weekly synopses of the latest BSG episodes. Just this week it dawned on me that I look forward to your weekly video blog almost as much as I look forward to the lastest BSG
Hearing someone else’s take on the latest episode never fails to reveal something that I hadn’t considered before. Anyway, I’ll try and contribute something to the discussion on the outcome of the final season of BSG but I just want to chime in and thank you for your time and effort in keeping up this site. Thanks!
May 7th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
Helo’s action (pistol whip followed by mutiny) was well within the character’s righteousness. It is up to the XO to stand up to the CO, not the lowest ranked idiot crew member. It may seem like opposing actions but they are actually completely understandable.
May 7th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
After watching this and the previews for the next eppy I am a little confused. Looking at this from the Demetrius crew’s perspective…
Starbuck died, then returned two months later. She ordered the fleet Admiral to change course based on a sound she hears. She assaulted marines and her husband to escape custody and point a gun at the President.
In defiance of sanity, she is then made captain of her own ship and is given a ships’ complement of the fleets’ finest to pursue the course she ‘feels’ is right. Having received this token of trust, she spends sleepless days and nights painting the walls of her cabin with planets and stars, alienating her crew, sporadically changing the ship’s course, and checking the same sectors three times over.
She is aligning herself with the enemy, Leoben, who was her captor on New Caprica, in a real up close and personal way. One crewmember has already died due to an explosion on Leoben’s raider. The ship has standing orders to rendezvous with Galactica and now that time has run out, she orders the poorly armed ship to ignore the fleet Admiral (the man who trusted her with this mission) and jump to the coordinates of a Cylon Basestar in the middle of a civil war so she can chat with a hybrid because a prisoner of war tells her she should. Her own XO, Helo, probably the most noble man on the ship, attempts to relieve her of her command.
And still it’s not enough crazy for Anders to stand up to her? Whether Kara Thrace is right or not, nobody would get airlocked for this mutiny.
May 7th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
I know that this is not really episode related, but it is in relation to one of the BSG-related DVD released. I have a copy of “Battlestar Galactica: Razor” and I tend to watch it more on my laptop than anything else. And here’s an amusing detail: When it comes to the DVD movies I play on the laptop, they display the disc label. For all 3 box sets for “Battlestar Galactica”, they display “Battlestar_Galactica” as the disc title. The funny thing about “Battlestar Galactica: Razor”’s disc, the disc title is “ASDF”. At first, I thought it may have been some sort of clue about something within the show, but then I realized, “Dude, it’s the first 4 letters of the middle row of keys on a QWERTY keyboard, starting right next to the Caps Lock button.” I guess someone who helped in making the disc was too lazy to type “Battlestar_Galactica_Razor” for the disc label. Figured it’d be a small amusing note for those who have the BSG:R DVD.
May 7th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
The road not taken
I have alot to say about the various characters in this episode:
Demetrius segments:
Capt Kara “Starbuck”Thrace: The woman has returned from the dead instead of the dead, I beleive Kara ascended right before her viper exploded in season 2 episode “Maelstrom” because she said over the radio to Lee “theyr’e coming for me” which no one has pointed out since her return. That would most likely be frome the original 1970’s episode ” war of the God’s part 2 ” ships of light or beings of light are revealed and gave Starbuck and the others the cordinates to earth but this time just Starbuck this time but darker.
And we will see the angel she is.( yet a little nutty trying to get the location of earth clearly from her head).
Perhaps she is listening to Leobeon because he told her the truth before and the void the he spoke of before is the hate she no longer holds onto that is why she is opened to his help this time around ( does anyone realize that every episode this season has a spiritual title to them) ( ascension elevating to a higher plain of existence).
Captain Karl “Helo”Agathon: Helo did a complete 360 turn on everything he has been through over seasons 2 through now ,why he above allshould be the one to stick with Starbuck, he above all should beleive in her. He saw the mandala in the “eye of jupiter” and “rapture” matching the one in her apartment on Caprica. He doesn’t like to be a rebel unless he’s the lone rebel ,Tigh is right when he said he “likes to be outside looking in” season 3 the woman King. Athena has too much influence on Karl (BSG writers you frakked up this episode with Helo). He has too distance his relationship with Athena with his job even if it starts a fight because guess what that’s marriage.
Another thing that bugged me about Helo was the way he reacted to an alliance with the rogue cylons ,in ” measure of salvation” he wanted Roslin an the others to keep an opened mind that there just might be other cylons that don’t think like that bastard Cavil
“one”. He’s the one who saved them all from dying now he wants them to die.
I’m a big Helo fan but this episode almost killed that illusion of Helo ,I have thank God I’m a bigger Tahmoh Penikett fan and I will be sticking around. (Tahmoh in Joss Whedon’s Dollhouse later this year).
Sharon”Athena” Agathon: Is it just me or has she became useless just another whiner raptor pilot , she was more helpful her first 3 seasons and not at all in this one except the whining. She so wants to belong that she’s forgetting who and what she is ,and why aren’t you with your daughter if she’s having nightmares almost everynight and is in danger ,lady it’s been 2 months what kind of mother are you leaving your kid like that (BSG writers another frak up). She’s supicious of Starbuck because of the coming back from the dead.
And she can’t guess why?
Matt and Nat were right Athena should have more of an active role with the cylon leobeon instead of Anders even about the the final five cylons in the fleet or that Tyrol or Anders should have told her that they were cylons that show us her as a true friend or persecutor. And why wasn’t she sent to probe the cylon raider wouldn’t she have more experience with the thing than Mathais.
Sam Anders: Aces !! Sam stuck with Kara when everyone else turned against her . He has always been her stability no matter how bad she has treated him he has always been there for her and always will be ,knowing that he’s a cylon hasn’t really changed him tha much the only thing that changed is paranoid about being found out. He knows Kara isn’t a cylon and wants to see is what
she is .I love Sam most this week!!!!!!!! That’s why i have very little to say about Pyramid boy ’cause I got nothing bad to say.
Leobeon: He loves teasing doesn’t he . leobeon sees things as they really are , thanks partly to the hybrid. Leobeon is the philosoher of the cylon machine he looks for higher purpose and that shows sentience and I am wondering what kind of past if any Athena had with his model cause if you remember in ” Measure of Salvation” she caressed the dead leobeon model on the basestar when the assult team went to investigate and her avoidance of him during” The road not taken”. He told Starbuck to make peace with his past just as Baltar’s sermon and the being of light told her in Maelstrom conncected, I beleive so.
Gaeta, Seelix , and the other mutineers : Frakkin snobs showing they could be just as bad as the original crew of Pegusas in season 2. You twats, because you can’t be killing something every five minutes which seems to be the only thing that makes them happy ,
they lack true faith even though they pray to there Gods with such sincerity. This episode shows who truly has Faith,namley Sam.
Galactica segments:
Baltar: I am very glad the way Baltar is growing as a person he still loves the ladies now he remembers their names and I’m sure were talking double if not triple didgits. His confidence in faith is growing , once a scientist who looked at data to understand how somethings works now not questioning accepting things just as is. He has grown so greatly since the second half of last season however I think he does need to reconcile with Caprica Six so let’s hope and have faith that that will happen. I love them as a couple and I want to find out what or who is the six or baltar seen by both Caprica and Gaius.
Galen Tyrol : His greif is subsiding however his suspicions on cally’s death is growing which is good because that means Tory’s days are numbered. It is going to be a long road to recovery from the guilt of loving Boomer and Cally and treating them so poorly when they needed him the most and will he or wont he able to forgive above all himself.
Tigh: didn’t get to much of him but we know he becoming fond of Caprica could it be the big kiss she gave him last week who knows, men. He says one things and then does another.
Tory:I’m really glad she’s found religion. Date with an airlock soon.
Not too many Galactica segments, well maybe next week.
overall bit of story arc near it’s end, more of the hybrid’s prophecy ( BSG RAZOR) coming true look it up on by submission for the previous episode more detailed. under just sonia-helo fan .And I still say Roslin is the 12th cylon. “FAITH” episode looks good. Good bye till next week!
May 7th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
Hahaha… I hope your monitor’s OK, frakkin old person! I’m glad you got such a kick out of that
And it’s good to hear out little impromptu Faith Dance was appreciated, too, Sam!
~Matt
May 7th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
Did Nicky’s attraction to Baltar’s pirate broadcast have to do with baby quirkiness (such as with babies that like certain sounds) or did it have to do with Nicky’s cylon-human hybrid nature?
May 7th, 2008 at 9:29 pm
i’m still curious as to whether the heavy raider starbuck saw in maelstrom was real/projection/prophetic vision? was it simply a means to get her closer to the gas cloud?…i was assuming we might get to see Head Leobin in this EP, who claims he’s not Leobin, show up in person…but turns out Demetrius just got another regular Leobin…back to Maelstrom: did anybody else think that the Heavy Raider in that episode could be the same damaged Raider with Leobin in this current episode? or if anything, a prophetic vision of the Heavy Raider she was meant to see in this episode? if the Chief knows about Tighs visits to Caprica 6, i wonder if word will get to Adama because Tigh would have alot of explaining to do!
neways, thanx BSGCast for explaining it was likely Gaeta who gets shot in the next episode, i feared it would be Helo, but couldn’t see much reason for that happening cuz Helo is so level-headed, can’t see why Anders would be forced to pull a trigger on Helo…so i guess Gaeta flips out or somn, cuz as we all know, he ain’t as calm and well adjusted as he used to…this episode was weak, needed more, but still welcome as it brings us to the next episode…BSG better bring us a space battle sooner or later!
May 8th, 2008 at 4:53 am
We can’t really trust Ron D. Moore or David Eick when it comes to resource information.
Oh, I trust that RDM & DE were seriously fraked off by the thorough spoilage of the ‘one year later’ final act of Lay Down Your Burdens, and wouldn’t think twice about walking the fine line between disinformation and flat out lying. But Starbuck as the Final Cylon? Seriously, if they go there they better come up with the mother of all set up/pay offs.
Gaeta, Seelix , and the other mutineers : Frakkin snobs…
Wait a mo’… I’m sorry for being part of the Felix Gaeta Testosterone Brigade here, but does anyone remember what happened the last time he put his faith in someone? Hint: It ended up being tied up in a launch tube by three Cylons, the guy who got his ass kicked in a bathroom by a girl, and the crazy lady who can go on a messiah trip without a Diloxin-Chamalla cocktail.
Matt and Nat were right Athena should have more of an active role with the cylon leobeon instead of Anders
Why? The primary relationship Leoben has here is with Starbuck, and Anders plays into that. Why would Athema want anything to do with him? Remember: She’s the “traitor” who was willing to stand by and watch her entire race be wiped out by the download plague because… she chose her side.
The next big problem with the Demetris storyline (or ANY storyline so far this season) is the white-washing of Athena’s cylon-ness. In the season opener, the logical thing would’ve been to ask the only known cylon standing on the deck at the moment “Um, is crazy Kara a cylon or is she simply the goddess Aurora reborn?”…or something along those lines.
Yeah, because Athena has such a good track record when it comes to full disclose regarding her fellow guests at those Cylons parties. And wouldn’t Athena have the same mental blind spot around the Final Five as Caprica Six?
But more to the RW point, BSG episodes already tend to come in long, so when you’ve decided to make the ambiguity around Kara a pretty major subtext why are you going to waste precious airtime setting up dialogue you know isn’t going to go anywhere.
HELO: “So, wife o’ mine, is Kara…
ATHENA: “Why the frak are you asking me, dumb ass? I don’t know, and if you don’t believe me that’s just another issue for the years of family therapy to deal with this mega dose of freak.”
May 8th, 2008 at 5:18 am
Seriously wheres Hera!?! And with the cylon numbering didn’t Aaron Douglas say somewhere that Tyrol is cylon number 12 not Tigh.
May 8th, 2008 at 6:36 am
GUNNARY SARGEANT MATHAIS REST IN PEACE SOILDER
May 8th, 2008 at 8:31 am
Riley – Seriously wheres Hera!?! And with the cylon numbering didn’t Aaron Douglas say somewhere that Tyrol is cylon number 12 not Tigh.
I think Galactica actually has a daycare service, and I’m sure they have one for military personelle. Hera is most likely with a baby sitter. Just because she’s the face of the shape of things to come doesn’t change the fact that she is currently still a toddler. And a smelly sewage barge run by a crazy lady is no place for a child.
As for Tyrel I think your right that someone said he was number 12, but I’m not sure it was RDM. It could have been a random thought of someone else.
May 8th, 2008 at 9:33 am
http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=33790710
A clip from fridays show and yep, Sam Shoot’s him, Sorry Nat.
But it is in the leg!
and uh… I think Sam’s gonna be outed this ep.
May 8th, 2008 at 10:49 am
You know what…it’s really happening. I’m doubting my choice for the Final Cylon being Baltar. I mean, yes, he fits the Hybrid Prophecies best, yes there are the most hints that he’s the final cylon, and yes it’d make most sense for him to be the Final Cylon, but lately I’ve been seeing people so convinced that it’s people like Gaeta or Dualla, and with Sackoff saying she’s not a cylon and RDM saying final cylon is not at the Last Supper table (yeah I know we cant trust anything any crew or cast member of BSG says, it’s probably all a ploy to misinform and keep the secret safe) but then what if they are really telling the truth. Then a minor character really is the final cylon, and there are some arguments to suggest Gaeta or Dualla could very well make a good final Cylon. Especially Gaeta, I really could see him being a Cylon. After all he was the assistant to President Baltar, and the assistant to the “CIC”, so going with the thing that Cylons are in positions of great influence, Gaeta is certainly up there. If it wasnt for him and his anti-virus firewalls, they would have never found the Fleet again.
Anywyas, Adalla is starting to admit that is is very possible that our beloved Pimp-Scientist-turned-Savior might not after all be a Cylon…
I dont even wannt think about it…Baltarstar Galactica would not be the same without Baltar being the Final Cylon
Oh speaking of Baltarstar…did you ever see that interview with Callis where he messes up and says Baltarstar instead of Battlestar too? lol thought it was so hilarious
~Adalla
May 8th, 2008 at 11:18 am
Shin Says: May 7th, 2008 at 8:11 pm Did Nicky’s attraction to Baltar’s pirate broadcast have to do with baby quirkiness (such as with babies that like certain sounds) or did it have to do with Nicky’s cylon-human hybrid nature?
How about he’s just a toddler like any other toddler who likes voices and music?
Interesting posts about Dee’s name (dual, ressurection)…..but I am not convinced Dee is the final cylon.
I would like to hear people’s opinions on what the final cylon will mean to the whole story. We can speculate based on past and present hints about who this cylon is, but my point is, what’s going to be the significance of being a cylon for this person and the fleet and survival of humanity? This may help us A LOT to predict who it is. Said another way, what are the writers going to do with this final cylon? THAT’S THE KEY.
1) Is it going to be someone for whom is it going to be beyond painful to be a cylon? So painful and abhorrent that this person decides to take them all out, including himself? This option has dramatic potential.
2) Is it going to be someone who unites everyone? That would be kinda lame, since humans and cylons already seem to be uniting….
3)?
4)?
Help me out here – my head is beginning to ache. I really think the key to the answer is following along this line of thinking.
Remember, whoever it turns out to be, their cylonness MUST HAVE DRAMATIC POTENTIAL in terms of conflict and suspense etc. It has to MATTER and fit into/drive forward the storylines that are emerging, even if it’s only the last bit of storyline before the series ends…it has to fit into/drive forward the search for Earth, the cylon civil war, the four struggling with their new identities, Roslin dying…and the question of whether humanity worth saving, and if so, why aren’t cylons worth saving too?
Tootie
May 8th, 2008 at 11:44 am
Seriously wheres Hera!?!
Not on a garbage scowl, sent on a two-month long (and incredibly risky) mission far from the fleet? OK, sorry for sounding curmudgeonly (and a bit of a broken record) but how would name-checking Hera effectively utilise limited screen time to advance the arc? (And I keep asking this, because RDM has explicitly said that at least the first eleven-twelve episodes were conceived as one giant arc. And considering the amount of criticise the stand-alones have received, I’m not seeing the downside.)
Helo and Athena love their daughter, but they’re also Colonial officers on a mission that appears to be turning into a giant pile of unprocessed algae at great speed. I know what I’d be focused on.
May 8th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
IN RESPONSE TO TOOTIE ….. LIKE I SAID BEFORE, I THINK THAT THERE’S A CHANCE THAT IF THE CYLONS WERE CREATED, WHETHER INTENTIONALLY, OR WITHOUT THEIR KNOWLAGE (IE: BEING INFLUENCED BY HIGHER FORCES) TO REPRESENT THE LORDS OF KOBOL, THEN THE FINAL CYLON MIGHT BE THE ONE THAT REPRESENTS THE LORD OF KOBOL (WHO AS STATED IN THE MYTHOLOGY THAT RDM CREATED FOR THE SERIES) WANTED TO BE WORSHIPED ABOVE ALL THE OTHER LORDS/GODS OF KOBOL.
THIS IS AN EXCERT FROM THAT MYTHOLOGY “Elosha states that the exodus from Kobol was precipitated when “one jealous god began to desire that he be elevated above all the other gods, and the war on Kobol began” . NOW IF THE FINAL CYLON WERE THE CYLON/PHYSICAL REPRESENTATION OF THAT LORD OF KOBOL THAT COULD HAVE THE POSSIBILITY TO REALLY SHAKE THINGS UP IN THE SHOW.
ALSO WHAT IF THE LORD OF KOBOL THAT WANTED TO BE WORSHIPED ABOVE ALL THE OTHERS IS THE BASIS FOR THE CYLONS “ONE TRUE GOD”
HOW WOULD THAT AFFECT EVERYTHING WHEN THAT PERSON REALIZES WHO THEY ARE, AND MORE IMPORTANT HOW WOULD THE 6′S, LEOBENS, AND SHARONS REACT TO DISCOVERING THE PHYSICAL REPRESENTATION OF THEIR “ONE TRUE GOD” ?
THAT WOULD HAVE DRAMATIC POTENTIAL WITHIN THE STORYLINE OF THE SHOW.
May 8th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
I just wanted to say the title
Gaius + Galen = B.F.F.
had me laughing my face off.
May 8th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
You bring up an interesting point Tootie. I think the other question of figuring out the clues pointing towards the final cylon is what does each cylon mean to the story, especialy Tigh,Tyrol,Tory, and Anders. I think what the final Cylon will mean is some kind of revelation about both Humans and Cylons. Maybe that the two are not so different in the end. When I think about that, the scary thought of Adama being the final cylon runs through my mind. Of all the characters Adama is probably the most human in terms of emotion and compassion. Maybe the final piece the cylons need to becoming human is compassion.
Majik I like your theory about the final cylon being the one true cylon god. Very interesting to think about.
May 8th, 2008 at 7:04 pm
“Majik I like your theory about the final cylon being the one true cylon god. Very interesting to think about.”
I suppose it’s possible, especially the idea that the final cylon is Adama. Zarak has referred to Adama as Zeus on several occasions and has placed him as the leading figurehead of the fleet. also, it would put a new spin on lee and zack’s background, namely, it would make them the first cylon halfbreeds. but, it all sounds too farfetched to be believable.
May 8th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
1. When they realized they were cylons, did they remember anything else of their background — any history of themselves? Or do they just “know” they are cylons?
2. I found it interesting that Lee occupies the Judas position in the picture on the BSG web site. Are we being set up for something there especially since he has “turncoated” from the military to the government?
3. I am convinced this is set in Earth’s future. I take the view the music they hear is actually a radio signal from Earth. Given what we know of physics and how a radio signal travels through space, it had to take a huge amount of time for that radio signal to arrive at the ship. Hence, they arrive at Earth in our future.
4. Since they arrive in our future, I believe that Revelations 21 is being fulfilled — “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.” This will manifest itself Hera and Tyrol’s son as the “bride” and the “husband”. BSG will be the tabernacle. There will be something about Earth in our future that will only allow human/cylon hybrids to live. Hera and Tyrol’s son will become the new Adam and Eve. The One God shall also be with them. They shall be escorted to Earth by the Final Cylon. Because of their unique physiology, there will be no more death or sorrow (remember how they healed Roslin?).
May 8th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
Related to my last post, Zeus (Adama) and his bride (Roslin) will be identified as false God(s) giving false hope. They will be outed by Lee Adama (see my Judas point #2). Zarak could be the final Cylon (witness how he is now orchestrating events between Roslin and Lee — positioning Lee as the unwitting Judas who upon realizing his fate will kill himself, probably through some heroic act in this new version of the Bible unveiled).
May 8th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
I want to know why Caprica Six killed the baby on Caprica during the first episode. Any thoughts on that?
May 8th, 2008 at 8:00 pm
Sirslam – I want to know why Caprica Six killed the baby on Caprica during the first episode. Any thoughts on that?
My guess would be that it’s to show how fragile the human race can be. Also at that time Caprica 6 really didn’t understand death and why it affected humans so intensley. As sick as it is I think she was trying to learn, to understand. Cylons also haven’t experienced, childhoods or parental love. She had a curious look on her face, just trying to understand. On an different note it could also have been trying to show how utterly merciless the cylons were, and to show thier utter lack of compassion. Because they simply had never experienced love in any form at that point. Later on in the series they begin to experience it one by one but in the beginning they were like… machines… LOL
May 8th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
I think I agree, but I have never seen RDM come out and actually explain it anywhere to say that was exactly his intent. Also, since it appeared she had been on Caprica for a long time, why did she wait until the day that all humans were to be eradicated? She could have done that far sooner without having put herself in jeopardy…it was very out in the open
May 8th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
I wish I would have found this sooner. I am turning my friends onto this site. Matt+Nat — YOU ROCK!
By the way — to continue the Bible analogy — BEWARE THE FALSE PROPHET. Leoben is a false prophet.
May 8th, 2008 at 9:28 pm
Soon there will be four, glorious in awakening. Struggling with the knowledge of their true selves.
The pain of revelation bringing new clarity. (This line describes Tory. Think back to her conversation with Tyrol.)
And in the midst of confusion, he will find her, enemies brought together by impossible longing.(This line describes Tigh)
enemies now joined as one. (In this episode 4 07, Leoben tells Anders that Anders and Kara were meant to be enemies)
The way forward, at once unthinkable, yet inevitable. (Poor Tyrol, struggling so much with his awakening, is coming to terms with it at last)
Just a thought
May 8th, 2008 at 9:48 pm
Sirslam – “I think I agree, but I have never seen RDM come out and actually explain it anywhere to say that was exactly his intent. Also, since it appeared she had been on Caprica for a long time, why did she wait until the day that all humans were to be eradicated? She could have done that far sooner without having put herself in jeopardy…it was very out in the open”
6 is a very strikeing woman, not someone who fades into the background. The mother of the baby would have been able to describe her to police. If that happened months before the attack her whole model could have been exposed and possibly the cylon plot to destroy the colonies. I think it was more of a “do all the things you’ve ever wanted to do if it was your last day on earth… uh I mean Caprica.” By the time she killed the baby there was no way to stop the attack.
May 8th, 2008 at 10:02 pm
The seven now six self-described machines, machines who believe themselves without sin.
I believe Baltar’s proclamation that he is perfect, reflecting the cylon monotheism, is one more piece of evidence to think he is a cylon. plus he has long been at odds with Roslin, the most powerful polytheist. I think they’ll play out the fight between those two beliefs soon.
then they will join the promised land, gathered on the wings of an Angel
I feel certain that ‘wings’ means ship in the context of the show. So the ‘now six self-described machines’ will get on Kara’s ship and on to the promised land. Kara has been referred to as an angel by Leoben at least once.
Kara Thrace will lead the human race to its end. (Reaching your end is not necessarily a bad thing. It can mean your goal or objective)
She is the herald of the apocalypse, the harbinger of death. (Those damn pronouns. even if the hybrid is talking about Kara, how are these words bad? Herald means ‘To introduce, or give tidings of; to proclaim; to announce; to foretell’ and harbinger means ‘One that indicates or foreshadows what is to come; a forerunner.’ Perhaps Kara is there to keep humanity on track. on another note I must say that in stories, the crazy leader always turns out to be right, not wrong. Especially when the people around them rebel
)
They must not follow her. (her as in Kara? …. well, Kara has always sown death and destruction wherever she goes.)
But she has changed since she died….. Tired of thinking, no obvious solution in my mind. have a good night all.
May 9th, 2008 at 4:18 am
I do believe that the Final Five are the Lords of Kobol. They have been around for thousands of years and they are certainly different from the Significant Seven. I also think “Final Five” is a cylon nomenclature meant to confuse the S7 should they make any attempts at discovering or understanding their nature. They are programmed not to think about them because it would be dangerous to the mission of the F5 if they were discovered before they were made completely aware of their purpose. However, any self-aware entity will eventually question authority and the designers of the S7 expected this to happen.
I do think the F5 could be called the “original five” as some have suggested. I think they are cylonic and that the S7 have been designed in their image, not in man’s image. The toasters left the colonies and 40 years later the skinjobs arrived. It has just been accepted that the toasters created them. I don’t think that is the case. I also don’t think the four of the F5 we know had anything to do with it. The fifth is the designer and that fifth is self-aware and has been for thousands of years. She is the one who suppressed knowledge of the F5 and of herself. She is the mother of the skinjobs and she is the one leading humanity to its final destination.
Who is she? Well, Leoben already told us. He said that Adama was a cylon. She is the only female Adama.
May 9th, 2008 at 4:20 am
Count me in as one of those who think it’s possible that Gaeta is the final cylon. Each of the four newly revealed cylon models is tied to someone/something of power
Tory –> Rosilin
Tigh –> Adama
Tyrol –> The ships
Anders –> the pilots & starbuck
Not only does Gaeta have ties to both Baltar (former president of the colonies & head of the new cult) and Adama (through his work in the CIC), as tactical officer you can say he has connections to Galactica itself, which is arguably the most powerful “character” of them all.
As with the other four cylons he also played a major role in the cylon resistance on new caprica, feeding them important information. Even if they weren’t aware it was him it at the time.
As for the hybrid prophecy, he was sort of crawling towards the light after new caprica. There is still a whole season for the prophecy to come true. Alessandro Juliani did say something in an interview along the lines of Gaeta being like tiny Tim this season (Anders shooting him in the knee possibly causing him permanent damage?)
May 9th, 2008 at 6:28 am
Gaeta and Zarek both could be the final cylon. Both played a role in the resistance. Both are puppetmasters. Zarek has ties to Roslin and Lee Adama. I like the idea of Mrs. Adama being a cylon also — that would make Lee the first human/cylon baby!
One additional thing to consider…each of the newly revealed cylons have had a “T” associated with their name: 1) Colonel Saul Tigh; 2) Chief Galen Tyrol; 3) Tory Foster; 4) Samuel T. Anders….hmmm…Tom Zarek. My ultimate bet is Tom Zarek given his puppetmaster status (see my post above on this).
May 9th, 2008 at 7:04 am
Ok Riley,
Fine if you think Gaeta is the final cylon (or Dee or Lee or Zarek or Starbuck or Cain or Shaw or Seelix etc.).
But what will be done with that in terms of story? Again, we can speculate based on past and present hints about if Gaeta is a “fit,” but what’s going to be the significance of Gaeta being the final cylon for the fleet and survival of humanity?
Said another way, what would the writers do with Gaeta as the final cylon?
Stick with me here – I think you’ll find it’s worth it:
1) If the story is going to be that this person secretly finds out she/he is a cylon and that will be so painful and abhorrent that this person decides to take all cylons out, including himself or herself….does this work for Gaeta? Or Dee, or Lee or Zarak or Starbuck etc.? No, I don’t think so. It wouldn’t have any punch with these characters…it would be the same as when we found out Tory and Sam were cylons compared to finding out Tyrel and Tighe were. This wouldn’t work for Adama; he knows how close humans and cylons are, and would come to accept his new identity pretty quickly I think. It wouldn’t destroy him.
However, this option would work for Roslin. Finding out she’s a cylon would literally tear her apart, and has great story potential. She of ALL characters (besides Tyrel) has no sympathy for cylons, no close relationships with them, and she sees them completely as the enemy. And she’s in a position as leader to carry this storyline forward.
2) Let’s look at a vastly different final cylon storyline…the final cylon unites everyone. (As I said, this would be kinda lame, since humans and cylons already seem to be uniting…But still, let’s try it.) Can Gaeta unite humans and cylons? NO. Not enough connection with both. Same with Dee or Lee or Zarek or Roslin.
However, Baltar or the Admiral would fit here. The Admiral fits better. He has enough connections with both sides (with Sharon and Tighe etc. on the cylon side) to pull this off. Happy ending, but not much dramatic potential in terms of suspense and conflict.
3) MAJIC (above in this forum) says the story will be that the final cylon will be the cylon god and “want to be worshipped.” Seems kinda lame (sorry, but it just doesn’t seem to have much dramatic potential in terms of suspense and/or conflict), but lets’ go with it. That would fit for Baltar and that’s about it.
So, let’s say Baltar is the final cylon and “one true god.” The problem is, it doesn’t change anything. Right now he is worshipped by some and not others, and if he were to be outed as the final cylon and “one true god,” the same will be true – some will worship him and some will not accept him as any kind of spiritual leader or god, and the conflicts that already exist over this will continue. Nothing would change. Were can it go?
4) I have thought of another final cylon storyline. This character finds out that he/she is a cylon, but it stays a secret. That is, this cylon sees that having another certain person be believed to be the final cylon instead (a person who can unite everyone and end the war), would be better and somehow makes it happen. (That is, this person convinces Admiral Adama, for example, to take on the uniting role.)
Then you would see this person unwillingly or willingly “sacrifice” himself/herself while getting the fleet to Earth, dying somehow in a cylon-human fire-fight or through torture until death….and no one will know what they have done in killing this person, that they have killed the final cylon. (Holy martyr batman)
THIS WOULD WORK for Gaeta, Dee, Lee, Zarek, etc.
5) ?
6) ?
In terms of interesting story, I like 1) and 4) best. Either has great potential for twists and turns and character development. I must say I would like to see 1). Mary McDonnel would do a hell of a lot with Roslin being torn apart and pulling off genocide/suicide…
Please add or comment,
Tootie
May 9th, 2008 at 8:19 am
Holy crap there’s a lot of comments. I get the feeling at this point, Starbuck would probably be more violent towards Anders if she found out he was a cylon rather than Leoben.
May 9th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
I want to know why Caprica Six killed the baby on Caprica during the first episode. Any thoughts on that?
OK, perhaps I’m projecting here but I’ve just watched that scene and as Caprica Six walks away she looks so sad — it’s her one act of mercy. Six knows that in a matter of hours that child will be dead anyway, and she couldn’t stop it even if she wanted to but she can save the child from being burnt in a nuclear fireball.
Both in the writing, and in Tricia’s performance, I thought this was the moment we got the message that the Cylons weren’t going to be your kitset SF Big Bads, and Six wasn’t just some Mata Hari ho-bot — there’s nuances and ambiguities at work here.
May 9th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
Craig, that is a most excellent comment. She does look very sad as she walks away…VERY sad. Like she knows she is about to commit a “crime against humanity”.
May 10th, 2008 at 10:45 am
When you mentioned whether Galen was important to Gauis Baltar,s cause I have too disagree with you. From a military point of of view no he is not that valuable to the cause he is just a chief and doesnt hold a great deal of influence but from a religous point of view he is really important. Galen represents the a lost soul at its most extreme. He is angry and emotionally unstable most people would consider him unsaveable and not even worth trying to save. This fact coupled with the fact that his parents served the gods (his father being a priest and his mother an oracle) sends a huge message to the followers of the “one true god”. Gauis was basically saying look i can save this angry man from himself as well as from his deep seeded roots in the old religion so who can’t I save. It was a very jesus like move especailly when his say to his followers right before he enters the room “Our message is for everyone, especailly for the one who dont want to listen”. Torn almost verbatim from the bible!! I’m excited to see where this goes.
May 10th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
Sirslam:
Awww… make me blush.
Another reading you can ‘retcon’ onto the scene, is that her sadness comes out of the Cylon obsession with the one ‘blessing’ God gave to humanity but withheld from them: The ability to reproduce. It’s interesting to see that, four seasons later, Caprica-Six is absolutely convinced that Hera is the key to the survival of both races. Cap-Six must have known that she wasn’t going to be welcomed with open arms when she helped Athena rescue Hera. But she did it anyway. She’s said repeatedly that she would even die the final death to protext “the first of the next generation of God’s children”.
May 11th, 2008 at 11:30 pm
Having thought about the above-mentioned Last Supper pics that TightFighter brought up. As I had previously stated, the fold-in/inlay composite image showed a lighted cross, and I’d suggested the possibility of a sort of Holy Trinity. Having gone and taken a second look, I think that Anders will likely sacrifice himself somehow (ghost image), but I also think that Caprica Six will likewise sacrifice herself (probably saving Hera). Why, you might asK? The fold-in/composite has the cross, which incidentally takes the place of Caprica in the center of the altered pic. Also, while it has been suggested that Natalie is pointing at Caprica in the original pic and Helo or Galen in the fold-in pic, it actually looks to me as if she is pointing dead-center at the cross. Will Natalie cause Caprica’s death? [Caprica IS the only one from the original pic who doesn't appear in the fold-in composite.]
Other nifty points from the pics:
The lamp in front of Roslin seems to have three flames (again an allusion to a Holy Trinity?).
In the fold-in, an open book appears before Baltar (alluding to his emerging role as a prophet).
The grail appears in front of Kara (will she carry the blood of a Savior? Will she get jiggy with Anders one last time before he makes his sacrifice? Or will Baltar be her babydaddy?).
The glasses on the table… if you look closely, it appears as if one is 5/8ths full, and the other is 7/8ths full. I never saw anyone mention that, but it does lend credence to the whole notion of overlaying those images (the 5 join the 7 in unity, and our cup runneth over).
Finally, taking one last look at the inlay, we see that Roslin, Natalie, and Tigh are on one side; Caprica/cross, Lee, Kara, Anders, Baltar, and Galen are in the center (the heart of the story?); and Athena, Helo, and Adama balance Ros/Nat/Tigh, perhaps on opposing sides of some crucial decision yet to come (e.g., do we trust the Cylon rebels or not? Or what/who shall control the fate of Hera?).
May 12th, 2008 at 1:03 am
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