BSGcast: 4.09 “Guess What’s Coming to Dinner”
We have to wait TWO WEEKS to find out what happens after “JUMP!”? Whose idea was Memorial Day anyway? What the hell Ron… that was amazing. Gaeta, Baltar, Roslin, Natalie, Athena… a lot of plots are all happening at once in one place in this cliffhanger. What did YOU think of “Guess What’s Coming to Dinner”?? Let us know, for a chance to win some Alienware goodies… like those $200 Ozma7 Headphones in just 2 more BSGcasts!
May 16th, 2008 at 8:52 am
Heya folks,
first post! woot!
This is a reminder to all that tonight after the episode airs, at 11pm Eastern BSG Pilots hosts our weekly LIVE discussion of that week’s BSG episode in our “Launch Tube”, which is the name we give to our dedicated chat room.
We encourage all the people here who seem so enthusiastic about discussing and sharing BSG, to join us. You must register to login to the chat room. It shouldnt take more than a few minutes though.
I hope to see you all at 11pm Eastern in the Launch Tube for some great discussions, and looking forward as always, to the discussion right here on BSGcast.com
BSG Pilots is at http://www.majesticsites.net/bsgpilots
See you all tonight, and enjoy the episode!
Also remember, there is a sneak peak exclusive at SciFi.com com from 9am to 4pm Easter time for that week’s episode every week! Check them out and support the SciFi Channel. If SciFI gets more site hits, they are happier, more money, and more likely they will order new BSG shows in the future. So buy those DVDs, visit the SciFI channel as often as you can, and try to watch the show live to get their ratings high!
Support BSG
So Say We All
~Adalla
May 16th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
Well, I have to say that the whole “Hera drawing Six” storyline doesn’t really attract me all that much.. But hey, if that’s what I have to get through to see Adama and Roslin’s reactions to seeing Starbuck come back with a bloody Cylon basestar, then so be it!
Besides, who knows, they might surprise me with Hera’s storyline.. I guess we’ll see!
May 16th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
Interesting news on the Battlestar Galactica TV-Movie front…. it looks like we might be seeing as many as 3 MORE MOVIES being shot this fall for us in addition to some webisodes during the mid-season break:
http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2008/05/more-battlestar.html
I’m excited! Maybe Ron Moore and SciFi aren’t torturing us on purpose after all…
~Matt
May 16th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
A few more hours. WooHoo! I agree with Jarno. Its going to be fun to see Roslin and Adama’s reaction to the Basestar. What I really want to see is the word “STARBUCK” written on the damaged “wings” of the Basestar. Hopefully they have A LOT of yellow paint on board.
May 16th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Thanx so much for sharing that Matt, that is fantastic news! More BSG material!
If you dont mind, I’ll post a new article so that BSGP visitors will know about the news too
May 16th, 2008 at 5:30 pm
WOW Gata has a pair, to stay awake while having your leg cut off? No way man, and no Dr. would ever do that. I’d at least give him a good med we carry that makes you not remember a thing.
All I can say is wow.
May 16th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
Gaeta is the MAN! Not only does he stay awake for the procedure but he SINGS!!!! And wow, he sings so well!!!
As a singer myself I am pretty hard on others who try and I can tell you: He has some pipes and skills!!!!
And how about Lee and Roslin facing each other down???
May 16th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
oh my god. simple three words to describe this episode.
May 16th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
oh my god. simple three words to describe this episode.
May 16th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
…..What a frakkin tease…. and not another episode for 2 weeks?! *breath*
At least it’s only two weeks. And excellent news from Matt that we are going to have several more bsg movies!!!! Yay!! Can’t wait! That makes me really freakin happy.
May 16th, 2008 at 7:08 pm
Hey,
Did anyone catch the one and only Romo Lampkin in the preview for the next show? I have a TIVO so I could slow it down and there was a shot of Romo spliced into the trailer/promo for the next show. Why would Romo come back? I take it from the promo that Lee gets sworn in as President; maybe he brings Romo back as a special adviser?
In regards to the episode, I thought that Gaeta got a lot of screen time for what amounted to a hospital/ER visit. I don’t want to go out on a limb and say that it was a lot of foreshadowing, but why give him such a presence? Especially at the end, the tight frame shot of his sweating sad face was pretty intense. I don’t have a single clue about when the final cylon will be revealed, before the mid-season break or after the mid-season break? But if they reveal the final cylon before the mid-season break it would give the last half a lot of momentum and tension.
I can’t put my finger on what was REVEALED during this episode. A few things caught me be surprise: (1) Athena shooting Natalie. Is Athena doing the “Right” thing by “protecting” Hera, or was Athena’s role simply to give birth to Hera in order to facilitate something more important? (2) Dee was in the hall way when Athena was trying to find Hera, it seemed interesting as Tyrol was also there, which would make sense because he is one of the final five and the hallway was being spliced with scenes from the Opera House, which is where Tyrol also is present, so is Dee also present in the Opera House? Maybe.
May 16th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
Fist me whine. dammit two weeks until the next episode.
I don’t know what I’m going to do if the final ten episodes don’t air until 2009.
Now for some good news… Not only did I read about the rumored 3 BSG movies, but I heard that Caprica may get a series green light before the pilot even airs. Also there will be more webisodes on the way while we wait for the final 10 episodes. Check out the amazing Galatica SITREP blog for more details.
As for tonights episode…. I need a little time to digest it. I think I was on such a rush from last episode that I kind of glazed over this one. It was a great build up episode. The cliffhanger was awesome though. Athena killing Nat/Six, Roslin and Baltar being whisked away by the Hybrid….. Very exiciting to watch. The sad part of course is we are left hanging for two weeks. Curse you sci-fi!!!!!!!
Quick question, Was Starbuck with Roslin and Baltar? I was kind confused about that while everything was going down.
May 16th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
LOL Seriously, you guys need to get some editing options for these comments. Oh well, I guess I will have to make everyone suffer through my typos and terrible grammar.
May 16th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
The promo’s for the next episode show that Caprica six is pregnant… by Tigh!!!! And Lee is sworn in as president?? Wow!
May 16th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
Well, I’m going to go for a new approach on this episode’s comment/reviews from me. I’ll keep it simple and short, but have multi-ple comments. How about that, you wont have to scroll through 2500 words of my crap
As I always do, I’m giving this episode a 5 out of 5 stars, I’m happy to see BSG to where I like to see it. This is the BSG I fell in love with, plenty of breath-taking moments. This has now surpassed Faith as my favorite Season 4 episode, and I’ve got a feeling that each successive episode will be better than the last, so I’m thining 5 and 4.5 out of 5 stars for the rest of the season. I mean, how can it not? Only 13 episodes left to wrap it up.
That is my strongest impression from this episode. Why does Gaeta get all this screen time as a “minor” character who just gets injured. The only possible explanation is I had said in the last episode’s comments, the ONLY argument for any of the minor characters to be the Final Cylon, would be to give them instant importance, importance than other characters such as Baltar, Roslin and Starbuck dont need, because they are very important whether they are the Final Cylon or not.
So…it seems Gaeta fetches a few points in the race for who gets to be the Final Cylon. Starbuck got a few points last couple episodes, because she hears the music all the time. Gaeta gets some for his extensive screen time and singing. And of course, the other major contender is Baltar, who has a million points by now
As I said in the last episode
———Spoiler regarding reveal of Final Cylon general timing (i.e 1st half of season, beginning of 2nd half, end of series etc)————–
From the source I saw, it seem the Final Cylon will not be revealed in the first half of Season 4, but towards the last few episodes of the Series, so not until 2009. But then, it’s a rumor, not a confirmed spoiler
————————-end potential spoiler/rumor ————————
Possibly. But the Opera House vision occurs both on the Galactica and on the Base Star. Roslin and Baltar are on the Base Star, and they are in the Vision…so I doubt Dee is in the Opera House.
Ok, now onto my own points:
I CANNOT BELIEVE NATALIE GOT KILLED! DARN IT WRITERS! SHe was my favorite Six!!!!!! WHY WHY WHY! SIGH! I’M AN ANGRY BIACH LIKE TIGH, sorry to have to say to Six Good BYE.
Ok, that’s a bad rhyme 
I’m so happy Baltar is finally getting some action out of his harem. Honestly he was getting to be a bit of wasted potential in that harem type setting. So glad to see him in the action again with the big players!
I loved Tigh in this episode, loved the whole “lets talk about the Final Five right in front of them and keep their identity a secret”. Gives me chills each time anyone mentions the Final Five and the camera pans on one or more of them.
Umm..what else. Oh yes…ATHENA SHOT NATALIE! Did I mention how pissed I am? lol Though honestly I have one good thing to say about that. SO many times in so many shows and movies we see people always holding guns to people’s faces threatening to blow their heads off if they dont do as the gunman says….and 90% of the time the gunman doesnt actually shoot, or he gets stopped. I am so glad to see Galactica writers have some cogliones and actually have people shoot AND KILL…and in doing so…absolutely shock the audience. I totally did not expect Athena to shoot, yet again BSG does something I totally dont expect, it happens every episode. Still, not happy to see Natalie go darn it! If you gonna kill someone kill Seelix or Simon or Lee man. Lee has been pissing me off too. He was one of my absolute favorite characters in S1 to 3, and now he’s not even worthy of a supporting character, I really dislike his character right now.
Oh, and another absoutely cool thing about this ep, THE HYBRID is getting some serious screen time! She jumped the ship without the consent of any other skin job, and the Centurion did not obey the Six’ command to not shoot in the lasts ep!
And now they threaten to blow up the ressurection hub…it’s really going to be every cylon for itself.
Oh..and I guess we now know what the episode entitled “Hub” will be about…
that’s really awesome, I bet they really will destroy it, and Cylons and Humans will be even more indistinguishable than before…
this is truly leading to the end of the Cycle dont you think? Humans and Cylons getting closer to each other, and human-cylon hybrids being the next generation of God’s children…this is really all leading to something big…
~Adalla
May 16th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
Fantastic episode. Gaeta was making me cry between his song and the angst in his body language. I hope nobody puts a weapon close to him though, he might be all suicidal now. Seriously, is Anders not going to be punished for this because Adama seemed quite prepared to do something if the shooter had been a cylon. Also, I find it funny that last season Hera looked more like Sharon and now she’s more Helo-esque with a black curly wig. If sharon wanted to alter fate, she should have cut that girl’s hair.
May 16th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
Is this working?
May 16th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
Posted by George
wordpress problems.
——————
“Humans” die and do not resurrect.
“Cylons” die and resurrect.
The final five live in the space between life and death.
Natalie’s speech to the quorum of twelve pretty much placed huge significance on death. I truly believe that the other realm, the undiscovered country, Earth, or whatever the frak you want to call it lies beyond life as the colonials have known it. Ron Moore does have an interest in Buddhism and in some forms of Buddhism there is a strong belief in other realms: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_realms.
Interestingly, in the promo/trailer for next week there was a shot of Natalie lying as she died. I would bet that we will get to see what a cylon experiences when they die. Think about it we have seen what a human experiences when they die, the ship and the nice peaceful island, but we have yet to see what a dead cylon experiences. If Ron Moore gives us a taste of what the cylons experience when they die we could get a huge clue into what it means to be cylon. Interestingly, if a cylon’s death is different from a human’s death, we could get a big clue about the hybrid’s line: “the children of one reborn will find their own country.” Maybe cylons die differently and live in a different realm/afterlife?
So while Philip K Dick addressed the question of : Do androids dream of electric sheep?
Ron Moore seems to be after the question of: Do androids go to an electric Heaven?The show is definitely trying to answer that question. Do Androids die? Do they have a God, is there a heaven or hell?
May 16th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
I gasped audibly at least three times. What a fantastic episode.
May 16th, 2008 at 9:33 pm
I need only two words to sum up this episode:
HOLY FRAK!
May 16th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
First of all, from the teaser for the episode in 2 weeks, Natalie is not dead. The overhead shot of her looks like she’s in Sick Bay (or at least strapped to a gurney that is used for medical transportation.
Zakayo- Cylons aren’t androids. Cylons are cyborgs (Cybernetic Organisms). Data is an andriod, he has an outer appearance of a human but underneath, he is a machine. The Human Cylons don’t have mechanical inners. So, your questions should really be “Do cyborgs go to an electronic heaven?”
Also, I noticed something from the teaser: It looks like the group come across a graveyard of ships in the next episode (or maybe the remains of another Battlestar, judging by the Viper that was seen. I’ve got a feeling we’re about to find out the true meaning of “All of this has happened before, all of it will happen again.”
May 16th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
I have a few comments. Mainly am I the only one who saw that Hera had some odd similarities to Jesus. Being raised in an unfortunate totalitarian catholic upbringing I saw some similarities between Hera and Jesus. Hera at an early age seems to see her destiny or future. She seems to know what is going on in the world around her and she seems to have some recognition of the visions that her mother is seeing. This to me seems a little too similar too the story of Jesus leaving his parents and seeking his destiny and going to the priests and teaching scripture. This is similar to Hera leaving Athena and going to six, saying goodbye to her mother (similar to Jesus apologizing to his parents in leaving them), and going to the Six because she knows its her destiny to do something besides being with her mother.
Also if Sanders feels so bad about shooting Gaeta why doesn’t he talk to him or try to comfort him. Also I feel like Gaeta being featured in this episode means something, but I’m not sure if it means he’s the final Cylon or as the writers seem to enjoy, maybe Gaeta is going to die or have some important role in future episodes (whether he is or isn’t the final cylon (I feel he isn’t)).
Last is there going to be any repercussions for Sanders and Athena. I feel like somehow Sanders got let off. If the issue of him shooting a fellow officer doesn’t get addressed I’d feel like the writers are taking the easy way out. Also Athena just shoots a supposed ally of the humans. If the humans don’t punish her this is sure to tick off the other cylons due to one of their own killing a human and practically being forced to kill the cylon who did it. However, it seems somewhat likely that they won’t punish her or they will give her a slap on the wrist, but again if the writers go this route it feels like they are taking the easy way out. I feel like Sanders could get a way with a slap on the wrist, but their has to be some repercussions of Athena shooting six. However we saw Adama get shot and live so I guess it’s a possibility that Six could somehow live through the shooting, especially because all we seemed to see were chest or body shots (if they are body/gut shots it seems possibly she could recover like Adama did). Also if the humans gave Athena to the cylons for justice would be an interesting turn of events.
I actually liked Lee in this episode. He seemed to be appealing to Roslin to meet the quorum half way. I feel like this is a good turn of events for Lee, because instead of being Lee appealing to his morale values he is being the reasonable voice of reason. He also is getting along with Roslin much better than previous episodes and this could lead to them having a strong working relationship for the future, like we have seen before in previous episodes.
I also feel like Six was becoming more human than the other cylons (similarly we have seen this before). She was like a human in distrusting the humans. This is a very human emotion, in that humans can rarely feel true trust with each other. Also she felt bad about planning to betray the humans and felt like this was the wrong method, she felt remorse. If the writers kill off this Six I feel like it would be a horrible blow to the show, because she was just getting very interesting and getting human like characteristics.
I felt like this has been of the best episodes lately and felt very disappointed it ended so early and abruptly. What is going to happen with the basestar jumping from the fleet, and more importantly how did the hybrid accomplish this? It seemed that she couldn’t do this before and I feel like this is another thing that should be explained. Also the basestar jumping so randomly is only going to make the humans distrust this uneasy alliance with the cylons and make them feel like they got screwed over once again.
May 16th, 2008 at 10:53 pm
I just want thank Adalla for providing the Chat room. There weren’t many of us, but it was a lot of fun discussing the episode and theorizing in the chat. I highly recommend people give it a try. Makes me wish BSGcast had a proper forum and a chat room. Thanks again Adalla.
May 16th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
I noticed that there was a subliminial image of the hybrid in tonights episode (I’m trying to recall where it was, I think it may have been when Athena was trying to chase down Hera, but it may have been sooner than that). It was a single frame. Not sure if it was a hiccup in the actual broadcast or if it was intentional. Did anyone else notice it?
May 16th, 2008 at 11:40 pm
“I CANNOT BELIEVE NATALIE GOT KILLED! DARN IT WRITERS! SHe was my favorite Six!!!!!! WHY WHY WHY! SIGH! I’M AN ANGRY BIACH LIKE TIGH, sorry to have to say to Six Good BYE.
Ok, that’s a bad rhyme 
”
In the preview for the next episode it looked like a shot of “Natalie” still alive with the doctor looking over her. I am not completely sure that she is dead. The eights are not very good at killing,.. Adama is still alive. :p
May 17th, 2008 at 1:05 am
@CB: An Android is a 100% machine humanoid. A cyborg is an organic humanoid that has been augmented or added to in some fashion by mechanical parts. Cylons are neither. They’re just… humans?
May 17th, 2008 at 1:32 am
OK such a fast paced show last night I really need to watch it a time or two more. As an example I didn’t notice either Romo in the preview or Lee getting sworn in as president.
OK now as for what I have to say about this week. I’ll sum it up with one thing. “I Was Right!!!!!” After the Razor movie came out I had re-watched it with the subtitles on and saw all of what the Hybrid had said. When it came to his saying that Starbuck would lead the Human race to it’s end, and she was the harbinger of death I said I thought it meant the end of there search for Earth and she would be the harbinger of death for the Cylons. Now it would seen that is true. I also Said recently I thought that Hera is the 13th Cylon or the 1 reborn, it is looking like she is. Can’t say 100% I’m right on that part but it does look that way to me.
Well I’m trying to get ready to go home and still nursing my injuries here so I’m going to keep this short and I’ll add more after I watch it a couple more times at home on the DVR. I look forward to reading about what everyone else caught I missed.
May 17th, 2008 at 2:56 am
First, everything I’ve ever read or seen as a sci-fi junkie has interpreted a cyborg as a creature with equal amounts of human and machine with each side being dependent of the other (such as the Borg). If you destroy the human parts then the machine can’t operate and vice versa…now, on to this episode…
As the Yankee great Phil Rizzuto would say…”HOLY FRAKKING COW!!”
I’m letting this episode sink in a day or two but damn there will be plenty to discuss. A few things though…
I agree that Gaeta is being set up to be more than a minor character, however I still don’t see him as the final cylon, there’d be no real pay off there asthetically. Those were some seriously intense and tragic scenes. Alesandro sings very well. I want to rewatch and digest the words to his song to see how they fit in. There is probably some importance there. He does have a higher purpose…of that I’m certain.
Lee is back on the map and seems very manipulative to me. I’m not ruling him out as a choice for final cylon, especially if they’re going to install him as President. But why wouldn’t it be Zarek? Does something happen to Zarek? Interesting. Man are Lee and Daddy gonna but heads or what?!
The Hybrid making a jump was just the continuance of her purpose. When they pulled the plug she was probably already planning the jump as a matter of protection protocol…the fact that she did that first thing was just her picking up where she left off. That was a true Holy Frak moment for sure! next stop the hub and a whole lot of answers..including ones they won’t like to hear!
I don’t think Natalie is dead. She could have a near death experience though and that could be cool to see. Will it be a ferry? A forest? A white lighted ship perhaps? Hmmmm….
I loved it when Roslin called Tori out about Baltar. I was wondering when it would happen. Tori was in unfamiliar and uncomfortable territory for the first time since her revelation. That was a great uncomfortable sequence. Now, will it make Tori do something protective of her identity?
Interesting that Tyrol was torn on helping Athena or not….and that hera wasn’t geeked about it either. I agree with some here that Hera is aware of her purpose and is aware of the final five.
Next episode looks like a knock down dragout free for all. Tigh decking Adama, Lee as prez and an impending showdown at the Hub…why do we have to wait 2 weeks? Is Sci-Fi pulling a USA netwok and showing the intergalactic dog show? Oy.
May 17th, 2008 at 3:50 am
Gaeta is getting a peg leg! \o/ Damn good episode. Question is, can the humans pass of Athena shooting Natalie as cylon on cylon action?
May 17th, 2008 at 3:57 am
..WOW…is all i can say after seeing that episode!
I thought that it was astounding,the Cylon storyline i thought was great, yay more interiors, the hanger deck looked very cool!
I liked the progression with the Natalie storyline, and how the other models feel towards her (the eight and two seem to be less “cool” with her now).
One thing that came into my mind while watching it was how “The dying leader will know the truth of the opera house” now after some thinking and watching the end part with Hera i thought ” Hmmm Natalie was clearly shown as the “Leader of the Cylon Rebels” and well..shooting her twice point-blank range does always pose some health risks..
We can see from the Promo for Sine Qua Non that Natalie is lying in a hospital bed in bad shape, i presume “Dying”. Now i do have to say that with Roslin meeting the hybrid and her actually having the visions that it does point more towards her but…as we all know from watching the show, things are not always what they seem..
May 17th, 2008 at 4:10 am
good episode. I agree with the idea that Gaeta is being set up for an important role in future episodes. whether he’s the final cylon remains to be seen but you have to wonder if there’s a pattern with the final five that RDM is trying to set us up with. Tigh-loses his eye (and Ellen), Tyrol-loses his wife, Tory-loses respect from Roslin, Anders-loses his marriage with Starbuck………..Gaeta-loses his leg. i’m probably reaching with this one since most BSG crew have probably lost someone or something but food for thought.
i’m still not sold on the idea that Baltar is the final cylon either. yes, it would have great dramatic effect if he was indeed the 5th but it doesn’t make sense when you throw the opera house into the mix. the final five are purposely veiled so you don’t see their faces, but Baltar has made several appearances in the opera house with Caprica 6. Why hide the faces of the 5 and then show Baltar in a slightly different setting? Dualla seems to have been reduced to a stand-in who almost no screentime so making her the 5th would be kind of strange, unless she’s featured more in future episodes.
May 17th, 2008 at 5:18 am
OK I watched the show again on my DVR and wrote the following as I watched it. I did a lot of pause and rewind and it took about 2 ½ hours to watch this way. LOL I’m such a geek, my daughter even teased me.
Opening scenes were great when the Basestar jumped in. Galactica coming about as vipers launched. Ships trying to avoid a collision with the Basestar and Demerits, and for the first time I have noticed seeing a gunner in the main batteries of Galactica.
The 6 said to Adama that the Basestar could heal itself. New and interesting idea. This could be why the Cavils didn’t notice it was still a viable ship. It only has one spar with a piece missing now. (Not withstanding the holes in her hull.) She also said “Most” of the raiders were destroyed. This means they still have some. I wonder how that will come to play?
Did anyone notice that after Strabuck told Tie “There with me” the camera panned the people standing behind her and there were nothing but Cylons and Anders the final 5 Cylon? Also Tie had a strange look on his face as he looked at them all as if wondering if Starbuck was a Cylon and wondering if the others knew he was a Cylon?
When the 6 being questioned by I’ll call them the leadership staff mentioned the final 5 being in the fleet Tie looked scared as well as What’s her name. I also wonder if they will ever add up that Anders was the missing factor in the Cylon attacks. I wonder if they will figure out he is one of the final 5?
Will Adama figure that Tie is a final 5 with his weapons hold? He has got to be questioning everything now. I think he knows. As tie walked away Adama paused and said “Tie, thank you”. Seemed like he was thanking him for staying loyal to the human race.
As for Anders not saying anything to Gata I can fully understand that. Having been in the service I have seen friendly fire incidents, as well as accidents where the person responsible is afraid to talk to the injured person. It is very difficult to go up and say, “I’m sorry”. He is honestly dealing with posttraumatic stress syndrome. I think it will be an interesting personal character development thing and that’s all.
Interesting fact. When they show the fleet jumping back in the Basestar now has 2 spars missing, and they are almost completely gone. Just found an oops by the staff.
As the Admiral, Helo, Tie and the President are meeting in the Admirals quarters to discuss the attack of the Hub they show a close up of the painting on the wall. It is an old toaster in a battlefield. To my knowledge this is the first time it has been shown. Wonder if there is some story behind it?
Again Adama knows about Tie. He asked, “what if they are different” involving the final 5.
When Zarak asked the counsel or more directed to Lee “Why weren’t we consulted” My answer would have been it’s a military operation. Military decisions rest sole in the hands of the Admiral. That was agreed upon a long time ago.
I find it interesting that in the original Cylon war the toaster type Cylons rebelled against the Humans from being used as servants and now here we are in the Basestar, skin jobs are now the taskmasters and the centurions are the servants just like before. It has happened before it will happen again. Keeps ringing through my head now. LOL
“One clawing in the dark towards the light” I think that is the line used. Think of all Gata has been through in the past. He has been tormented and is now at rock bottom as many have said. If he had a gun he would kill himself. I do also believe he is the last of the final 5.
Lee is showing how he feels to the President and showing he is not a sniveling little crybaby but is trying to help her. Something none of us have seen nor has she and the Admiral.
I think as the 6 was addressing the quorum Starbuck had her flash back that is when she realized for sure what the Hybrid meant when she said to her “you are the harbinger of death”.
OK during the opera house dream once it was over Athena woke up to see Hera standing by her bed and said “bye bye” I truly think hera is controlling these dreams.
Back to the Basestar. They keep changing how it is put together. Sometimes all the spires are there others it only has ½ of them.
Interesting how Starbuck showed up after the vision?
When the president tells Baltar he is in her visions he seems shocked. I don’t think he is having them too so that rules him out on the theory everyone is having about him having the visions and being the last of the final 5.
One of Heras drawings has her with the 6. Mean something?
Centurions and heavy raiders were taking position in the Basestar prior to the President arriving. Are they preparing for there attack?
Now if the Basestar was preparing to jump to the ordinance of the hub is that where it jumped to when the hybrid woke up? Did the hybrid jump out of fear waking up to see all the colonial ships around her?
The two shots the 6 took were not in vital places. The biggest danger to a human body where the shots landed would be the liver but I don’t think it was quite there. I think it may have missed it thus making her saveable.
Preview of next episode.
Did cottel find that the 6 in the brig is pregnant? Tie punched Adama in the preview also. I caught it in slow motion.
When we see the viper floating it doesn’t seem to be damaged from being shot down but more from being on the Basestar as it blew up. There is a huge debris field that a raptor is flying through and someone in a colonial EVA suit floating in space. I’m not sure how Limpkin fits in but Lee is being sworn in as president. Next show will be something else.
It also shows Starbuck talking to Adama with no words, No words just the face of Lambkin so who knows whets going on.
May 17th, 2008 at 5:43 am
While I enjoyed this episode it did feel like a set up episode and we have more questions to be answered, the ones I can think of so far are:
1) Which Baltar is in the Opera House with Roslin and Athena: My initial assumption in Crossroads was head Baltar due to the Baltar being clean shaven and wearing a dark suit however after reviewing the scene in Crossroads and in GWCTD the suit that Baltar wearing while Dark is not the Head Baltar pinstripe suit and Head Baltar has to date always worn the pinstripe suit (which was the outfit we first saw Baltar wear in the pilot). This means that it is probably “real” Baltar in that scene and so that is how he knows about Athena and Roslin and Caprica 6 sharing visions
2) Why wasnt Anders disciplined for shooting Gaeta?
3) Do the rebel cylons know about Caprica 6 being on Galactica and given the nascent alliance why wasnt an offer made to return Caprica 6 to their custody
4) Any significance to Gaeta’s singing: I personally suspect it is a red herring in the final cylon hunt, also will there be a reconcilliation between Gaeta and Baltar with Baltar seemingly checking on Gaeta in medbay
5) Will Leoben be able to deal with the Centurians successfully or will they take action after the jump
6) What will the fallout be from Athena shooting Natalie and the base ship jumping away
Misc Comments on Episode
Did anyone else think at the end that Athena shot the wrong six, if she is really worried about Hera running off with a six then Caprica 6 is the one she needs to be worried about given that Caprica 6 is the one in the vision not Natalie and was it really wise to have the cylon base ship located in the middle of the civilian fleet, truce or not I would want it to be located out of weapons range with the galactica between it and the fleet since as things stood if it had started shooting it could have devastated the fleet before they could escape or the galactica took it out.
Given that the Opera House is where the final five initially resided, do Tory, Tigh, Anders and Tyrol have any memory of it, given that to date they only seem to be able to recall their “human” lives it is doubtful given this that they will be able to lead anyone to Earth unless they get their cylon memories back.
Hybrid Prophecys and Final Cylon Speculation
We got added support to the Kara Thrace as Harbinger of Death being a good thing for the cylons theory with the Natalie speech about How the cylons need death if their lives are to have meaning, if this part turns out to be good will the herald of the apocalypse also be good. Checking the Hybrid Utterances page on the BSG Wiki it should be noted that apocalypse is also mentioned in reference to the final five (five lights of the apocalypse rising struggling towards the light) indicating that the final five will also have a role in the fulfilment of this part of the prophecy.
The emphasis on Gaeta in this episode and his suffering increased the likelyhood that he is the final cylon, yet I am inclined to think that this is an attempt to mislead us. Aside from that there was little if anything to help us in the search for the identity of the final cylon
May 17th, 2008 at 6:05 am
Sorry i totally forgot to mention my other theory i had. I did my whole Natalie Theory a few posts back if anyone wants to hear it (alhough there are soo many good ones, i’m sure you’ll be bogged down as it is).
In Faith Where Laura is on the boat and she sees the people on the shore line, that to me is undoubtedly the after life. The Hybrid said that Kara was A harbinger of death. On wiki it says “A harbinger is a sign of things to come.” Meaning that she may not be the one responsible but just a signal of its arrival.
But also i had a thought that maybe that vision was on Earth and Earth is a paradise where the Cylons and Humans will live together in peace, and technically dead.
May 17th, 2008 at 6:15 am
It’s a rare episode where half the fun is the previews of the NEXT episode! Ok, so lets recap here:
1. Gaeta provided the thread that kept the entire storyline together. His song was the sad tone of the entire thing as it all was shot to hell. I think Alessandro Julliani (Hope I spelled his name right) out did himself. Not only is he a talented actor but he can sing and sing WELL! As I said in my earlier post, I am pretty harsh on singers. This guy is the real deal. He has MAD skills and shold look into music as a second career option.
2. I like that Roslin and Lee are starting to connect and we see Lee coming into his own. We can also see from the nasty look that Zarek gave him that he is not happy about Lee not being a puppet.
3. Anders has guilt and he should. He shot a guy in the leg for doing nothing but following his orders. It’s not often that we find a truly innocent victim in this show but Gaeta was one. I look forward to seeing how both men cope with this.
4. A quick shout to Baltar. The expression he had while looking in on Gaeta was pained and I am finally beginning to belive in the power of the G-Man! He has finally become a decent human being.
5. In short, this was a GREAT episode. No filler here this week! Oh, and as for why Natalie die: D’Anna is coming back. Can;t have TWO women in power suits roaming the hallways now, can we?
NOW, for the preview:
ROMO IS BACK!!!!! How frakin awesome is that!? Whatch for this line: “You’re a beacon of hope. Unfortunately, hope is the LAST thing we need right now.”
Lee is sworn in!!! Holy crap! Is Lee about to become President Adama??? How will that affect the relationship between dad and son and Zarek and Lee? Might be interesting to watch…
And the one thing that made me stand up and say WHOA!!! Tigh DECKS Adama????? HOLY FRAK!!!!!
Next week is definately going to be one for the record books.
May 17th, 2008 at 6:55 am
Great episode. Truly great. Some observations I’ll post:
1. Saul ordering weapons hold and saving Colonial lives on the Cylon basestar. I think this is very important. It seems that the Final Five have some connection to each other (once they’ve awakened, that is). Since Anders is on the basestar, it’s very likely Saul is sensing that presence.
2. But Adama on the other hand. That look he gave Saul after the “weapons hold” was uncanny. And now that he knows the Final Five are in the Fleet, I believe the Admiral is suspicious of his old friend.
3. Gaeta. So much to say here. His amputation had me wincing. Poor Gaeta, such a brave soul. But the leg might be a possible plot point later on. Follow me here. If Gaeta is suspected as a Cylon, the Colonials have his leg. They can examine the tissue and blood for Cylon traces. The problem is that the Colonials believe Baltar’s Cylon detector was a hoax. If you remember correctly, it wasn’t. It actually DID identify Boomer, but Baltar tampered with the data.
But Gaeta. What about Gaeta? Well, this episode might give clues to his being a Cylon. Notice how the Four react when Anders says, “He sings.” And listen to Gaeta’s song in the very last scene. The word “awake” is very prominent. It may be nothing, but then again, it may be everything.
4. The Central Resurrection Hub. I’m beginning to think Matt is right about the “harbinger of death” line. This might be it. Starbuck bringing real death to the Cylons. I think there’s probably more to it, but it’s certainly feasible.
5. This episode had me asking myself, “what would I do in that position?” The Fleet nearly shoots down the basestar, Lee confronting the President, Natalie planning to take hostages, Natalie later rearranging the plan, the Quorum planning a no-confidence vote. It’s a lot of conflict, and some of it hurts to accept. But seriously, I think all of these factions, if you will, have very rational reasons for making these decisions. It’s so human it’s mind-boggling.
6. “Your respect and your friendship means–”
“–Frak.”
Great moment there. Truly well-written.
7. Hera. The big question. What in frak is Hera? How does she fit in to the great plan of the cosmos? And I have no answer at this point. I’m dying to see how this plays out. It does seem to me that she is wanting fellowship with the Cylons.
8. Natalie. She is shot twice by Sharon. I see this as a possible parallel of earlier shootings. Boomer shot Adama twice. Cally shot Boomer twice. Now Athena shoots Natalie twice. The clincher here is that Natalie is not seen dead. She just slumps to the floor injured. Maybe she did die, but it’s not seen or said. Next episode will tell us all.
9. So what’s the Hybrid going to say to President Roslin? I wonder myself.
I hate to leave it at 9, but that’s it for now. Good episode. Good comments, all!
May 17th, 2008 at 7:19 am
I’m thinking that the fact that the Hybrids are doing whatever they please now is further proof of the Cylon becoming individuals and starting to gain freedom of will. And I think the Hybrid jumping is simply an act of self-preservation, I mean she was basically nearly killed by being unplugged, her first instinct is to get away from danger, I mean the Colonials did come close to attacking the Base Ship.
Oh, and I’ll bet 20 green ones that the Hub does get destroyed and the Cylon lose ressurection ability. I feel this is an inevitable event that needs to happen, to blur the lines between Human and Cylon even more, preparing them for their merging and integration at the start of the new cycle of life on Earth.
May 17th, 2008 at 7:22 am
“The 6 said to Adama that the Basestar could heal itself. New and interesting idea. This could be why the Cavils didn’t notice it was still a viable ship. It only has one spar with a piece missing now. (Not withstanding the holes in her hull.)”
I guess you didn’t notice my post to Matt in the page about why Cavil may have missed the Basestar. I rewatched the episode and posted about it: “If you pay attention to when the Raptor goes through the field of the remains of Basestars, Anders says that due to the debris, the Dradis readings were all over the place (it’s right after the jump into the field occurs, where instantly, Anders notices “multiple contacts”, and then after that he says the line I’ve mentioned). And we can assume that the Cylon’s Dradis is the same. And, unlike “Star Trek”, there isn’t an exterior view for the larger ships, so the debris from two of the Basestars may have covered the third one. And, for all intents and purposes, Cavil may have believed the third one was completely destroyed and it was after he and his ships left did the Basestar in the episode moved into the orbit of the gas giant (which is where Starbuck and Co. find it).”
May 17th, 2008 at 7:28 am
Also, I noticed something from the teaser: It looks like the group come across a graveyard of ships in the next episode (or maybe the remains of another Battlestar, judging by the Viper that was seen. I’ve got a feeling we’re about to find out the true meaning of “All of this has happened before, all of it will happen again.” – CB2001
@CB2001,
. Honestly, no one can without doubt, what or who the Gods were. What did the lords of Kobol look like, or where they not present in a physical form?
I also noticed that, but I couldn’t put my figure on it. I think you might be on to something. If it is a graveyard of ships, maybe its from another tribe, or the thirteenth tribe? I don’t think the thirteenth tribe was chased by cylons, but with that said, I’m pretty sure from what I’ve read at the BSG Wiki that after the twelve colonies arrived on their new homes, they entered a dark age and lost a lot of their technology. Therefore, it is entirely within the realm of possibilities that cylons both Humanoid and Centurion existed on Kobol and knowledge of their existence was lost during the exodus. Just a theory
May 17th, 2008 at 8:22 am
In ‘Faith’ the hybrids tells Kara that ‘the dying leader will know the truth of the opera house’. Natalie is a leader, who may be dying and not dead. To that point, when Natalie is telling the quorum that it was no accident that Kara found them, Natalie also says “She(Kara) asked me to lead my people and I accepted, no matter what the sacrifice”. And in that speech she was talking about how death is what makes us whole. And that death, that is to say the ability to die, is the starting point of their destiny, their future. That’s what I got from the end of Natalie’s speech.
The hybrid from razor calls cylon activation “awakening”
“To one day please just have her wake” is what Gaeta sings twice right at the end. So last cylon a woman? I mean come on, Gaeta’s beautiful singing has to mean something.
Love this show, so much fun
May 17th, 2008 at 8:46 am
I missed the episode so I planned, to watch it at Scfi.com, but it wasn’t there…….I hope they just havn’t had time to update their website and nothing else.
May 17th, 2008 at 9:05 am
For anyone interested in picking them apart, here are the lyrics to Gaeta’s song (thank you, close captioning, which really enhances the BSG experience):
Alone she sleeps in the shirt of man
With my three wishes clutched in her hand
The first that she be spared the pain
That comes from a dark and laughing reign
When she finds love may it always stay true
This I beg for the second wish I made too
But wish no more my life you can take
To have her please just one day wake
To have her please just one day wake
Not sure of the meaning, but the camera lingered on the book in Laura’s lap as she began talking to Baltar. It was Searider Falcon, the book Adama brought in to read to her during her treatment.
I’m not much of a poster, but love reading all of your observations and theories and, of course, look forward every week to watching Matt and Nat (and her operatic way of saying things). Thanks to all.
May 17th, 2008 at 9:17 am
I wish Dee had more of a part. I thought that was pretty lame “Have you seen my child?” “No…I haven’t…” “Ok bye!”
I feel like Dee and Tyrol should have both followed Athena.
Also, did anyone notice right before they plugged in the Hybrid, that scene when Baltar said something like “God’s will be done” and Roslin told him to shut up, the music they were playing was the song Gaeta has been singing. At first I thought his singing was a red herring, but I thought it was interesting to hear those undertones in the normal music as well.
Also, I can understand why Athena shot Natalie (Have they even referred to her as Natalie yet? If not, then I have a good feeling that she will survive the shots, because thats just a waste if we only know she is called Natalie from RDM).
Lee was getting less annoying this episode, I’ve been getting sick of him and his role to solely oppose the President on every decision made. I hope that he doesn’t really become President, but I think its inevitable.
Also, the Hybrid yelling “JUMP!” at the end was beautiful. I would have never seen that coming, and I was so blown away. I’m glad Natalie was shot, not that I don’t like Natalie, but the way that they were building that up I was wary as to which way it was going. I expected something shocking to happen on the Basestar, and I was hoping that Athena’s story wasn’t going to just have her put the gun down.
For a second there I thought Tyrol wasn’t going to help Athena, and I got really pissed off at what kind of a person he had become. Tory, on the other hand, I’m glad the President called her out.
Does anyone else think that Gaeta was singing about D’Anna? When he said “three wishes” that was just a simple little reference to her number. But at the end “to have her please just one day wake.” I don’t think that RDM would have that end the episode with no purpose at all.
May 17th, 2008 at 9:27 am
What really got my attention was the “666″ on the pictures that Hera was drawing. Was this a reference the “number of the beast” and that the devil/demons have some part in the story. Sometimes they were random and sometimes they seamed to be in sets of threes but it seamed pretty clear to me what they were trying to show.
The Devil was hinted at in the original BSG series episode “War or the Gods” when they find Count Iblis’s crashed ship at the end of the episode. In the aired episode the colonials just look in the ship and gasp so it was left up to the viewers to make up what they think they saw. But from the Wikipedia entry on Count Iblis “In a deleted scene from the episode, some of the dead crewmen in Iblis’ crashed ship are shown. They exhibit devil-like features, including cloven hoofs and pointed ears” Also the beings of light say that he was one of them, but that he rebelled which was an obvious parallel to the story of Lucifer. And when he is shot by Starbuck, Iblis turns into a demon like being. Many of us are convinced that RDM will use the being of lights in some fashion so why not include this part of the story line.
Some other demon indicators I’ve noticed:
Head six always wears red ie. “the color of the devil”
In Precipice Chief asks Teigh what side they are on. Teigh says to Anders and Tyrol (two other members of the final five) that “We’re on the side of the demons. We’re evil men in the gardens of paradise. Sent by the forces of death to spread devestation and destruction wherever we go. I’m surprised you didn’t know that.”
Couple of theories/ideas
1. The devil/count Iblis is all the head characters. It is obvious the head characters can take any form as we just saw with Balter seeing head Balter instead of Head Six.
2. Maybe the devil is the Cylon God as some other people has speculated.
3. There are seven regular models that represent different facets of humans per RDM (seven sins?)
4. The final cylon is a model that rebelled and was cast out similar to the Lucifer story.
May 17th, 2008 at 10:02 am
This is one of the greatest episodes this season! There are now so many plot twists coming in to get you thinking and keep you on your toes. So Gaeta is singing, does that mean he’s a cylon or is it just to add to the tension of the episode? Starbuck once again seems to have a little of her old “shut the frak up and pay attention” attitude back. Tigh is wondering where the hell his life is going to go from here if he gets found out, while the other cylons seem to preoccupied with their own lives to give a rats ass.
Not even going to contemplate tying things together, I know by now that I’ll never be right and that the writers will pull something out that was so strikingly obvious and yet we all missed it!
Loving the BSGCast, keep it up guys. Got the link from Adalla and BSGPilots. Oh, and I’ve known Adalla for a couple years now, yes he always has that much to say and more
May 17th, 2008 at 11:00 am
I noticed a lot of people asking why Gaeta got so much screen time. He was the linchpin that held this episode together. He was the common fear and pain that everyone was feeling. No, I don’t think he is the final Cylon, although I find it absolutely hilarious how everyone starts attaching monumental signifigance to a character if they have as much or more screen time than one of the A-listers and don’t die.
This episode was very good and I am gflad to see things picking up speed. I will tell you all this though (And I don’t mean to sound like the robot from “Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy): I have seen where this show is going and it will all end in tears. There won’t be any wonderful or bittersweet endings like “All Good Things” or “What You Leave Behind”. No folks I think Ron and Dave are going to leave us very sad and depressed when this all ends because if there is one thing I have learned watching this show all these years it’s this:
THERE ARE NO HAPPY ENDINGS IN BSG.
May 17th, 2008 at 11:01 am
I put together everyone’s thoughts together. Looks like this
1. Caprica six is pregnant by Tigh.
2. Lee is sworn in as VICE president.
3. In “Faith” where Laura is on the boat and she sees the people on the shore line, that’s “Heaven”. I bet its Earth and Earth is where everyone is going! So everybody is going to die!
4. Here are the lyrics to Gaeta’s song:
Alone she sleeps in the shirt of man
With my three wishes clutched in her hand
The first that she be spared the pain
That comes from a dark and laughing reign
When she finds love may it always stay true
This I beg for the second wish I made too
But wish no more my life you can take
To have her please just one day wake
To have her please just one day wake
Gaeta is singing about D’Anna or the Final Cylon meaning the final is a women. At the end of the song it says “to have her please just one day wake.” The words “Script” was written for the EP and put to music before the EP was even shot.
5. The camera lingered on the book in Laura’s lap. It was Searider Falcon, the book Adama brought in to read to her during her treatment.
Searider Falcon
The raft was not as seaworthy as I’d hoped. The waves repeatedly threatened to swamp it. I wasn’t afraid to die. I was afraid of the emptiness that I felt inside. I couldn’t feel anything. And that’s what scared me. You came into my thoughts. I felt them. It felt good.
6. In the story line they haven’t referred to her as Natalie yet. She will live long enough “to learn the truth of the Opera House”, they never said she was in the visions, she can still learn about them and what they mean. It’s just a waste if we only know she is called Natalie from RDM.
END OF LINE,
JP – TX
May 17th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
Hi first time poster here.
Charles i like your question 6.
“6) What will the fallout be from Athena shooting Natalie and the base ship jumping away?”
The jump happened after Natalie was shot. Adama may think that the other cylons found out and ran away. So Adama may not jump to the conclusion that the cylons betrayed them. Looking at the preview it looks like they are trying to save Natalies life. Most likely so they can use her to get the president back.
Is anyone else find it strange that Athena wants to kill six? You’d think she appreciate Caprica SIx for helping her get Hera off the basestar. Also she knows Caprica Six wants nothing but to protect Hera.
-Tyler
May 17th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
JP, I think you are right about Six being pregnant by Tigh. Personally, I find it awesome! The old bastard still has some spunk in him!
It just might be Lee being sworn in a VP instead of President. That could make it complicated for Adama (The Admiral type) to say screw you to Zarek because then it would just look like he was trying to get his son placed in charge (and therefore make himself a dictator through him).
As for who the final Cylon is….. I have some theories but I won’t say anything yet. I will discount the following characters though:
Adm. Adama, Roslin, Starbuck, Lee, Gaeta, Cally, Dee, Baltar (sorry Matt) and any other ’supporting character’ (aka Redshirt) who gets more than five minutes of screentime and doesn’t die.
JUMP!
May 17th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
I very much doubt the Cottle discovered that Caprica 6 was pregnant by Tigh, simply because it would be a child of two cylons and if Tyrol and Boomer did not have a child after a relationship spanning a couple of years then I doubt Tigh and Six will after a few weeks.
I suspect that Cottle discovered recent bruising due to being Hit or evidence of recent sex, both of which would lead back to Tigh and lead to Adama being angry at him
May 17th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
wow laura has really changed asking tory to like bendover like she was her whore i used to see her as like the most compationatet humen being obsesed whit the number of survivors now shes just cynical and self centerd and all that whit starbuck excluding the possebillety that sehs been to earth like it was imposseble i just dont like her anymore
May 17th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Whoah,
it just keeps getting better and better… This episode had me literally and physically onthe edge of my seat and it had my heart going to boot. The story is getting some real weight at the moment and I feel like they have intentionally led us even further away from what will draw all the strands together in the end.
-> The Opera House:
there was more than one… in Season 2 there was the Opera House where there were some Visions going on…
-> The Obsession Six/Hera
what is Six’s fascination with Hera. But even stranger – the other way around. Where did that suddenly come from? Six has been obsessed with the Human/Cylon baby since she showed it to Baltar in the Opera House on Cobol… You folks didn’t forget that, did you?
-> The second Human/Cylon Baby
why is there no story line here, or why is the child of Tyrol(Caly of no consequence as of yet?
-> Style
Baltar sporting the Muskateer look, eh?
Did anyone notice, that the Cylons have w a y better furniture than the Fleet?
-> Dreams
Roslin is the final model? The dream-thingy this episode gave that impression. Why was she simultaneously having the same dream as Six? Did it feel to you folks like they could actually sense each others “real” presence in these dreams?
-> Music…
Why does Gaeta sing? Why does Gaeta sing something which is apparantly “revealing”? What’s the connection between Cylons and Music?
Did anyone else catch that the mixed in “All Along The Watchtower” again?
There was definitely something brewing up in this episode that was pieced together from things we have seen in past episodes or in past seasons. The whole opera hous thing has gotten me very anxious and the human/cylon baby thing as well. After this episode I am almost convinced that the final Cylon will be Roslin or Gaeta…
I shall close with these earnest words: what the —- do they expect us to do until next week?
Cheerio,
Ripley
May 17th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
Hey guys, I’m reading Bear McCreary’s blog and he had some pretty cool stuff to say, this in particular.
“I’m here for two weeks helping out with Weddle and Thompson’s new, unusually musical episode. I am observing on-set instrumental performances and even composing original music each night, churning out sheet music pages for the next day’s shoot. And they are allowing the show’s score to evolve in an unprecedented manner. Frak, this upcoming episode may perhaps redefine the role that music can play in narrative.
But, I’m getting ahead of myself. You guys won’t see that one for a long time. I’ll tell you all about it when the time is right.”
Also, apparently his wife had composed the melody to Gaeta’s Lament as a birthday present, and he thought it fit perfectly
May 17th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
Small thought here.
The hybrid in Razor said that he would live again in ways uncertain. The hybrid of the baystar in the current plot said that the children of the one reborn will find their own country. RDM said that the hybrids are cylon 0, aka predating the 12. So maybe the baystar hybrid was telling us that the cylons will find their own country.
Small thought there.
May 17th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
Another tremendous show — maybe one of the top five, certainly one of the top ten. My friend Sigmund Fleud (a true Geek like me in every sense of the word — come on Sigmund, I know you are just waiting to post something), thinks it is better than 33 and Exodus.
Question. What do we think would happen to Cylon nation if 6/Natalie had a true “Near Death Experience”, went to Heaven and returned? How would that make YOU feel about their humanity? How would that make Natalie feel if she went to Heaven and saw human and cylon alike? Would she start to give up a lot of other secrets of the Cylon world?
I think RDM has a whole lot of big brain thinking going on right now. He must crack up reading our theories of the BSG universe!
Kirk out.
May 17th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
Hey “Connor Trinity”, you are not alone, I noticed that as well.
In the video section of SciFi.com there is a listing/button to watch the episode on Rewind just like the last 5 weeks as usual, but this time when you click to be taken to the Battlestar section of Rewind, this episode is missing.
So, from another fan and customer of the SciFi sponsors, I’m EXTREMELY upset at SciFi for screwing the fans out of this episode:(
Such a shame for the loyal customers/fans whom CANNOT watch it due to work, etc.
May 17th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
Adalla,
I posted yesterday:
“The Hybrid making a jump was just the continuance of her purpose. When they pulled the plug she was probably already planning the jump as a matter of protection protocol…the fact that she did that first thing was just her picking up where she left off. That was a true Holy Frak moment for sure!”
I agree with you that the Hybrid’s jump was automatic…she was unplugged just as she was going to jump away anyhow to protect herself and her ship. When they plugged her back in she just picked up where she left off. I would have suspected an alterior motive had the Hybrid interacted with Roslin or Baltar first. As such this will probably be viewed as a kidnapping by the Colonials. The Colonials will save Natalie so they can use her to negotiate getting Roslin and company back.
May 17th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
What is happenning has happenned before and will happen again.
The first cylons were built to fight the wars between the colonies. They rebelled. The new centurions were built to fight the wars between the new cylons and the humans. They will rebel. That has happened before and will happen again.
Gaeta is not the fifth cylon, he is the count Ibus (original series bad guy). He is trying to prevent the humans from aligning with the cylons. Why, I haven’t a clue. Gaeta may think that he can kill the remaining lords of kobol (the final five, ironic since they were the original five).
Gaeta is the 13th lord of kobol who escape with his cult to earth. The final five are from earth since they went insearch of ibus long ago. They cast ibus from earth (Oddly, the grecko-roman cults were replaced by the belief in a single God.). Ibus went to the colonies and started the cycle which is unfolding. Ibus has killed the other seven, which he memorializes with his seven cylon models (he revels in their destruction by making copies as pawns (side theory has the human-cylons as prisons for the souls of the original lords of kobol, resurrection is the continuing prison and destroying the resurection ships is destroying the prison)).
The final five are not like the rest. The cylons never made them. They are the returning lords from earth. If ibus can kill them, then they too can be cast into human-cylon shells that are empty at present. Count Ibus may just yet be the catalyst for all that has happened and will happen again.
On another trip….
Ty has one eye, Gaeta has one leg and the one armed man killed …. wait wronge show.
As an aside, the scene where six saves baltar from the blast when caprica gets nuked, the six there is not caprica six or any other six. That is the head six, only a supernatural being could shield baltar from the fire ball and radiation. So, the first head six scene is that one.
May 17th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
Hi All,
What an amazing episode! A few comments first having read through the comments here:
Anders thinks Gaeta is one of them, because he tells the others that Gaeta is SINGING
I think seeing the lyrics to Gaeta’s song would help–and what an absolutely amazing and beautiful voice he has! it is so difficult to sing w/such beauty acappella (sp?)–it was very moving. I love how Roslin says how tragic it was that something so beautiful came out from something so bad. I have to say for a cancer patient, she looks more beautiful than ever when she’s wearing those scarves on her head.
Also, Roslin gives it to Tory for sleeping w/Baltar–bad, bad Tory–I guess all that cylon no feelings thing isn’t working now that Roslin has given her the cold shoulder, and doesn’t trust her as much.
Question: Lee is asking Roslin if it’s true about Baltar telling the truth about death? or the one god? I was confused by that–but she does seem to be having more respect for Lee; how does he become VP ahead of other quorum members? Maybe because the others are tired, as he tells Roslin, they’ve given up hope; the one thing Lee seems to be getting back w/his new job. He really is fulfilling his destiny–
Kara seems more at peace than ever, even with what the Hybrid said to her. I guess we won’t be seeing her with Lee anytime soon since they just jumped away.
I’m also finding it hard to believe that Baltar is preaching the truth now? I don’t get it…I miss crazy Baltar seeing 6, I hope that is still going to be happening. I think that he is going to be the one who finds out that Tory is one of the 5; I bet the mid season cliff hangar is going to be Dianna identifying the 5, and Anders in front of Starbuck and Roslin. I also agree with whomever noticed the pattern in the Boomer and Sharon shootings. i feel like there is something about Athena shooting Natalie that has brought something, I don’t know what, full circle.
So, let’s see:
Boomer shot Adama. because of her programming.
She was shot by Callie, who later married and had a child w/one of the FF. Callie killed her because she was in love w/Chief, and could not believe what Boomer had done to the Chief. Some think she killed her out of jealousy–no! She wanted to kill her for what she did to the Chief. This is one of the reasons she goes nuts when she finds out about that Tyrol is a cylon. Hey anyone would go nuts, she killed the enemy for deceiving someone she loved so much, and seeing him hurting so much, was painful for her as well. Then realizing she killed a cylon for a cylon, and marrying and him and having his baby!
Athena, an 8, and “sister” of Boomer, marries a human and has a child w/him. Then we have Athena walking by Tyrol, barely seems to notice or look at him, and just seems to assume when she asks him to get Hera that he’ll do it. She instinctively still trusts him. Which leads me to believe that the FF are meant to protect humanity and cylons who are near-human so to speak, that’s why they have been leaders in the fight for humanity–whomever said that, is correct.
She shoots Natalie to save her child, a hybrid.
I know there has to be something there, but I have no idea what yet..
I was crushed about Natalie; she’s awesome and my favorite 6 as well. Tricia H looks her most beautiful as Natalie. I think she can resurrect still, as they haven’t blown up the ship yet? Or maybe they save her…
Also, I did not even think of Tigh having impregnated Caprica 6?! I guess how else would Adama be yelling at Tigh.
I can’t wait 2 weeks! I am just so excited to Romo may be coming back!
Oh and btw, the Baltar cylon detector does work because he lied about Boomer as Head 6 told him too. So we know Starbuck is not a cylon.
Athena
May 17th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
you’d think someone would question Tigh’s regular visits to Caprica 6’s cell, and also the fact that she beat him to a bloody pulp. I wonder how he explained that one?
May 17th, 2008 at 6:35 pm
fao TickedATSciFi, I was pretty miffed that scifi.com didn’t have the new episode up as well. if you’re looking to get your fix check out http://www.sidereel.com, they have the new episode up. I only use this site as a last resort as some of the video streams are pretty dodgy.
May 17th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
I sure hope Tigh didn’t impregnate Caprica. Like… seriously? Those two are frackin’? I thought she just punched him and kissed him while he was dazed out.
May 17th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
Ciel – I sure hope Tigh didn’t impregnate Caprica. Like… seriously? Those two are frackin’? I thought she just punched him and kissed him while he was dazed out.
I’m pretty sure they’re fraking! Caprica is a VERY sexual person. I doubt she ends things with a simple kiss.
What I think is reallly intriguing is if Caprica is pregnant, then she is pregnant with the first FULL cylon child.
May 17th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
I’m still reeling from the hybrid jumping off with Rosiln, Baltar, Helo and the nameless pilots. I mean, the baseship did a blind jump there, right? It’s not like the hybrid had calculations made up in the instant she was plugged back in. and with next week’s teaser showing them going through a baseship wreckage that has a viper floating in it. I hope I’m wrong, it be so anti-climatic and frakked up if they did it this way, but I’m going to say it:
The baseship jumped wrong and got smashed into chunks, killing everyone on board. Helo, Rosiln and Baltar are dead.
There, it’s said. I want to be wrong. But someone has to point out the worst case scenario.
May 17th, 2008 at 7:30 pm
Athena- In a scene that was scripted for “Crossroads”, but was not filmed. It would have shown that Tyrol and Athena became friends. The scene would have had Tyrol with Nicky, finding Athena with Hera at the spot where Tyrol is seen in Part 2 when its revealed when he is also hearing the music. Basically, that section where Tyrol is seen at actually vibrates, and the reason why both Athena and Tyrol take their kids there because the vibrations apparently help the little ones fall asleep.
What does that mean? It means that Athena trusts Tyrol just as much as he trusts her. So, when Athena asked Tyrol to get Hera out of the way, she may have been asking him because he is her friend. So, it’s not just instinctively.
May 17th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
How come the Final Five appear in the Opera House on Kobol, if they are supposed to be from the home of the 13th? i.e Earth?
May 17th, 2008 at 8:14 pm
Adalla, maybe the Opera house on Kobol was made in homage to an Opera House on Earth, and since they would look identical we’d never have known… ?
~Matt
May 17th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
Adalla – How come the Final Five appear in the Opera House on Kobol, if they are supposed to be from the home of the 13th? i.e Earth?
I still think there is a possibility that the home of the 13th may mean the home of the 13th cylon. Perhaps the 13th cylon comes from Kobol.
May 17th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
thee_immortal_one, when Six saves Baltar in the blast on Caprica, I feel like she essentially schisms into two version of herself that are not both aware of each other:
1) “Head Six that Baltar perceived to be the same woman in a non-corporeal form that claims to be an angel of God
2) Caprica Six that downloads into a new body with no knowledge of Baltar’s Head Six
During the New Caprica arc, I had hoped we would see some interplay between the two Sixes that Baltar percieved as the same one, but alas, none…
~Matt
May 17th, 2008 at 8:26 pm
Hey Matt:
Can I get honorable mention for the headphones for politely redirecting the poor lad that dissed our co hostess with the mostest? LOL!?
The big question is…why an Opera House? What is the significance of that building….? and, aren’t the Hybrids the way they are because they saw the final five and lived? What keeps them from telling everyone who they are?
May 17th, 2008 at 8:33 pm
I think the hybrids are the way they are because thier consiouness has spanned the space between life and death. She experiences so much at once that the words that come out of her mouth appear as ramblings but are more like dream imagery.
As for the Opera house. I just had a theory, that popped into my head. There has been a theme in bsg that everyone and everything has a sound. Head six says that life has a melody that becomes your existance once played in harmony with gods plan. What if the opera house is the origins of the music of the human race. What if each race has a sound. OOOORRR what if gods plan has a sound and the 5 play that sound through the opera house that now exists in the space between life and death which are seen the the president’s visions. Just an initial theory but to me it makes sense.
May 17th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
Ok, I haven’t yet taken the time to read all the posts (this week’s or last’s) to find if this is an original thought, but I had a thought about part of the hybrid’s prophecy:
“The dying leader will come to know the truth of the opera house…” might actually be “The dying leader will come, to know the truth of the opera house…” which would simply imply that Roslin would be coming to the basestar, but not necessarily that she would ever truly understand said truth of said opera house. That would be a kick in the ovaries for Roslin if she found herself on the far shore of the river, screaming “What the frak was the deal with that frakking opera house?!?”
May 17th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
Interesting theories everyone.
As to the significance of the Opera House Adam, I believe it’s the whole metaphor of music. Life and existance is like a bunch of notes that when played in harmony produce a beautiful symphony. Remember Baltar talking about the tuning up of an orchestra? The music of the Final FIve? The singing of Gaeta? It is all connected to the deepest message of the show.
An Opera House is where music and art are done, and where a message is conveyed through beautiful music.
Mark my words, the very last scene of Battlestar Galactica will take place in the Opera House, with a majestic music piece made by McCreary that is going to blow the rest of what we’ve heard to date out of the water. And the scene is going to be so beautiful and spectacular to behold, taht we’ll end up tearing up and holding our breaths in awe.
No, this is not a spoiler, it’s simply my speculation, but my mark my words…and what a beautiful way to end the series that would be…glorious music, glorious life forms, a glorious revelation of truth, all while taking in glorious sights and sounds…
~Adalla
May 17th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
I’m still digesting, but who wants to bet that the Samuel T. and Kara Anders won’t be coming to dinner at Felix Gaeta’s crib. Even if Allesandro didn’t have such a beautiful voice, that scene in sickbay would still have had me crying like a baby. Ron Moore you are an evil evil motherfraker.
May 17th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
Adalla – Very interesting. Your analysis was the same as mine.. only more articulately said. haha I think your right about the ending. It will most likely be in the opera house or opera house related.
May 17th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
Adam- Why an Opera House? Simple: The origins of Opera came out of an attempt to resurrect a Greek drama. The play “Dafne”, composed by Jacopo Peri, is the story of the god Apollo falling in love with the eponymous nymph, Daphne. And seeing the show ties into classical greek history and literature (i.e. Starbuck’s last name, Thrace, is Southeast Europe at the time of the Greeks, the 12 Colonies belief in multiple gods, Oracles, etc), it makes sense in that context because the first “opera” was an attempt at reworking a classic story. Surprisingly enough, is what the new BSG is, a reworking of a classical tale. So, the use of the Opera House may be a metafictional reflection of what the show really is: an opera unto itself.
May 17th, 2008 at 10:16 pm
“I agree with you that the Hybrid’s jump was automatic…she was unplugged just as she was going to jump away anyhow to protect herself and her ship. When they plugged her back in she just picked up where she left off.”
The Hybrid kept saying before she was unplugged “FTL drive failure remains uncorrected” so it seems somewhat unlikely the first thing she would be would be a jump based on what you described.
May 17th, 2008 at 10:47 pm
Who are the candidates for this woman Gaeta sings about?
D’anna is at the top of my list. She is “sleeping” while boxed, to be awakened. Alone she sleeps, well she must be pretty lonely, only line to be boxed. In the shirt of man, I think this means in the body of a human being, referring to the higher essence of this being, beyond the mortal flesh.
It might be Starbuck, as she said herself it feels like she is watching herself from a distance, not really experiencing life as before. This could refer to “shirt of man” and sleeping could be a metaphor for not truly being in her true state of existance (as a being of light?).
If we are to take sleep more literally, then D’anna best fits this song. If it’s more metaphorical, then any higher being constrained by mortal life in the physical realm of lower conciousness levels could be considered sleeping.
The only real guess I have is that Gaeta is singing about D’anna somehow.
May 17th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
Hunter- It’s possible that her unplugging and replugging served as sort of a reboot to all the systems, which may have corrected what was “uncorrected”. It’s like rebooting a computer system that’s locked up. When you press the reset button, the computer boots up and acts normal again (unless its a very serious problem). The same could be said about satellite receivers. A majority of small problems (including a receiver that is locked up) can be solved just by pressing the reset button or unplugging the receiver from the electrical outlet for 15 seconds and then plugging it back in. From what I can tell, the unplugging and replugging of the Hybrid is no different.
May 18th, 2008 at 12:49 am
Hi Everyone,
Can I just say that having stumbled on this website recently I almost look forward to reading your posts as much as I do watching the show. Almost.
It is good to hear other peoples views on what is happening and where we are heading.
I would just like to throw something out there: Is Natalie 6 now classified as a dying leader?
Cheers
May 18th, 2008 at 1:56 am
OK, perhaps its a glitch in my software but I still like the idea that there’s no deeper metaphysical meaning to Head Six (or either Head Baltar come to that). Baltar — and Caprica Six — is so fraked up with guilt and fear that the only way he can function is to come up with a very dangerous imaginary friend. That doesn’t mean he’s not still extremely smart, highly observant and capable of odd intuitive leaps.
A stretch? Well, he is someone who was so obsessed from an early age with ‘passing’ as Caprican, that he totally obliterated his native accent, left home as soon as he was able. Don’t you think Baltar was the kind of man whose re-invention came with the constant fear that someone would find out that he was just a dirty little prole from an Aerelon dung-heap with ideas above his station? His whole life was an endless performance, and how much would it take to tip a man like that over the edge to psychosis. Perhaps (unwittingly) being instrumental in the near-total genocide of the human race would do it. And what better form than that of the woman who played the player like a cheap fiddle. That’s got to sting.
I wouldn’t be quite so literal-minded about it, Adalla. Felix is singing the blues while trying not to look at the space where his right leg used to be — so who could blame him. He’s never been spared the pain of having his trust and faith thrown in his face over and over again. What has he loved that ever remained true? He was a conscientious officer, and got taken for granted. He hero-worshipped Baltar (and spare me the adolescent gay jokes, folks, I’m not in the mood) — and the Cylon detector was a scam, and he certain didn’t make much of a career move leaving for New Caprica to become the President’s CoS. (That was hell before the Cylons showed.)
He risked his life to help the Resistance — while he was being cursed as a traitor and targeted for assassination.
After the Exodus, he was shunned and reviled. On the authority of the President, he was almost murdered by an extra-judicial death squad made up of three Cylons, a crazy woman and a guy who got smacked down in a bathroom by one of Baltar’s Babes, a knuckle-dragger and a jock.
He tried to kill Baltar, twice, and failed.
He committed perjury, and Baltar got off anyway.
And now he’s lost his leg because he was obeying an order, and Starbuck’s man-ho finally figured out how to take the safety off of his weapon.
Because nobody can keep a secret on this show, how do you think Gaeta is going to react when he finds out the Final Four have been dogging him ever since New Caprica?
May 18th, 2008 at 2:08 am
Natalie 6 is at the hospital bed. If u pause the promo when they show her she has a white tube on her. I thinks she will not die from that gun wound.
cya
May 18th, 2008 at 2:33 am
True Mclogan,
But she is dying at the end of the episode and a dying leader will find out the truth about the opera house. She could be the first Cylon to have a near death experience and return to her own body, not just resurrect. Will she too see a boat or something else?
Cheers
May 18th, 2008 at 2:48 am
This was a great episode!!!
BUT most importantly it made me think more about the harvenger of death Kara. I think i now get it Kara will lead humanity to earth, but like the scripture says the dieing leader will die before they get their- Kara brings Roslins death!!! It just snapped when you see the confrence with the Qurom and Natalie and Kara starts seeing things as she looks at roslin. THen going to see her in hospital, its obvious shes made connection also
May 18th, 2008 at 3:49 am
Hunter,
That was what she said yes, however, she then suffered a traumatic shutdown…when she was reawakened I feel she jumped from the “attackers.” Hell, that’s what i would do… :p
May 18th, 2008 at 4:49 am
“Mark my words, the very last scene of Battlestar Galactica will take place in the Opera House, with a majestic music piece made by McCreary that is going to blow the rest of what we’ve heard to date out of the water. And the scene is going to be so beautiful and spectacular to behold, taht we’ll end up tearing up and holding our breaths in awe.”
but will it end on a good note or a bad note? i’m gonna say bad.
May 18th, 2008 at 5:43 am
I love reading all of this speculation. It really gets the brain working.
I want to say this.
A lot of us are making comments concerning the role of Count Iblis and the Beings of Light in the new series. There is one problem here.
Ron Moore has stated in an interview (and a serious one, at that) that he didn’t have any plans for those. He just didn’t see any way to bring them in and make them work. I doubt we’ll ever see them.
RDM said he had created an intricate mythology without them anyway. Bringing them in would complicate the mix. Of course, he’s looking at the entire picture. We’re filling in the gaps as the weeks progress. It’s easy for one of us to see where they could go. But RDM said otherwise.
Sorry, folks. For the time being, we need to consider this a real possibility.
May 18th, 2008 at 7:15 am
Well, this is on a light note, but pretty cool. Last night, I went to the Police concert with my son. Part of the stage lights consist of a long band -just below the rafters and stretching the width of the stage- made of many, many rods which monochromatically change color throughout the show. At one point, the band turned red with odd symbols jumping about, like moving, encrypted information. We simultaneously turned to each other and yelled “Basestar!” It was very funny – you just can’t escape BSG.
I have also noticed that every time I see a movie produced by Universal and that music starts up, I get a little BSG flutter.
May 18th, 2008 at 7:23 am
trueedge2097- Like all authors, Ron Moore is capable of changing his mind on certain details and what direction the story goes while its being worked on. At the start, he may have not intended to use them, but may have changed his mind later on in the series (which is true to many details within the story that Moore has confirmed, including the ending of the show). Also, you can’t really trust anything that the producers or actors say about the show when it comes to upcoming events. Why? Simple: They’re not going to reveal something that may be a surprise. But the mythology of the show, though intricate, may have included the Beings of Light and the Count Iblis character. Why? Because we do not know the origins of humanity with the tale. We have yet to hear an etion on how humans came to be. The only thing we know where humans came from is, “Life here began out there.” It could be possible that the Beings of Light and “Count Iblis” may have had a hand in it.
May 18th, 2008 at 9:12 am
CB2001 –
I’m certainly willing to concede that. If my memory serves me right (forgive me if it doesn’t – I’m having some trouble locating the interview), that interview took place on the outset of filming the first few season 4 episodes. So that would mean that RDM’s statement is probably accurate.
The only point I’m really making is that we need to look at everything BEFORE we speculate. We have the episodes and such, but we need to look at official statements, too. That’s what education really is.
I have to disagree with you on that “not revealing something that would be a surprise” bit. They’ve revealed a lot about upcoming events, as Battlestar Wiki tells us. Yet we continue to be surprised. There’s always something that will intrigue us. Heck, they could probably tell us everything and we’d still be surprised.
So, yeah. We should consider his statements at least circumstantially true. If proven wrong later, I’ll still be pleased.
May 18th, 2008 at 9:37 am
What an episode! Gaeta’s singing, the hybrid jumping after being plugged in, Boomer projecting in the Galatica, and the whole opera house thing! What was Baltar doing in the opera house vision?
So, this episode was another brilliant display of cinematography. Faith was great, and this one was just as good if not better. The team working on BSG are definitely pulling out all the stops. Every scene with Gaeta singing gave me chills; it was an excellent plot device! He has a great voice, but you could hear it shaking with emotion. I might as well mention here that the covers under his leg-stub (and the stub itself) looked like they were CGI. They just didn’t look real, and That was a stupid move for the special effects crew. The could have done what Forest Gump did with lieutenant Dan and cut a hole through the bed, but ah well, that’s just the filmmaker in me getting critical on a lazy mistake.
Another interesting thing is Boomer (isn’t she always?) and Hera. Now there’s two things that could have happened. She could have been projecting like the other Cylons do, or it could have been another plot device (flash backs). I’m going to go with projecting because it’s more interesting. Perhaps that moment of fear for her baby caused her to revert back to some Cylon thing. The wall she built up between what she is and what she wants to be (Cylon and Human) came crashing down. The bricks: her friends, memories, and experiences all broken and in a moment of panic, she protects her child from what she believes to be harm. Which brings me to Boomer shooting the Rebel 6. What could this mean for the rebel Cylons? There can’t be any trust between them anymore, their leader was shot on the Galactica. Although it was Boomer that shot the 6: it was another Cylon. It will be very cool to see if the writers have anything interesting to make about that.
So, the opera house visions. We know that Roslin, Boomer, and the Caprica Six all share the visions. These visions are also interconnected, so anyone in the vision is having it. Now, WHY THE FRAK is Baltar in the opera house? I guess it explains why he knew that Roslin was having the visions, but that doesn’t explain why he was there. Heres another thought. Just before Baltar stepped out of the dark and we could see who he was, didn’t he look like one of the shadowy cloaked figures that the D’ana saw when she had the vision of the final 5 in the opera house? something to think about, but if Baltar turns out to be the fifth, I am going to be pissed. it would be such a cop-out, and the amount of irony in the idea of the most human character of all of them being a Cylon just makes me sick. So say we all? Good.
So, where does the Basestar jump to? Earth? The resurrection hub? We won’t find out till the next episode. I am eagerly waiting on the edge of my seat for this!
May 18th, 2008 at 9:42 am
DAmn It!
I allways forget that it’s on, so I only saw the end of the episode “Jump”.
And sci-fi hasnt uploaded it yet!:(
I’m so sad, I think I gonna get the BSGCast recap before I see the ep.:(
Why was Gaeta Singing?
May 18th, 2008 at 10:23 am
I dont think so. ROslin has always been and will always be the dying leader spoken of in the scriptures. SHe’s the only one who’s been dying over a long period of time. All other characters have died pretty quickly or recovered quickly. Roslin is the only person who has been continually getting worse and worse.
gaseous, I think it’ll on a good note, but having followed immense tragedy and tons of death. I’m pretty sure that nearly all major characters will die before the series is over.
Whoever remains left alive, whther in the physical plane or the “other” heavenly planes, they will be in the Opera House, and it’ll be glorious, not sadness there. There cant be sadness when there is glory.
However, there will be an Apocalypse before the glorious revelation of truth…and it will bring a lot of death and sadness…
~Adalla
May 18th, 2008 at 10:36 am
Adalla – gaseous, I think it’ll on a good note, but having followed immense tragedy and tons of death. I’m pretty sure that nearly all major characters will die before the series is over.
What do you want to bet that the last main character survior will be Baltar. In the end he will care for the remaining fleet on the new world. Just a feeling.
May 18th, 2008 at 11:09 am
“Why was Gaeta Singing?”
it helped him cope with the loss of his leg
May 18th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
WHY THE FRAK is Baltar in the opera house? – Brearer
@ Bearer,
Baltar has always been in the oprea house with Six. Remember God has chosen Baltar as the guardian and protector of the new generation of God’s children, which is Hera. Baltar and Six will take Hera somewhere by means of the Opera House. I don’t think the Opera House is an end in itself, it is a bridge/portal/gateway to another realm/Earth/the undiscovered country. Interestingly, in order for Six and Baltar to take Hera, Athena and Roslin must not be present to prevent them from taking Hera, so do Athena and Roslin die? Roslin yes one day and Athena probably? It would be interesting if the last scene of the show is Six, Baltar, and Hera entering the white light of the Opera House to begin a new existence in another realm/Earth/country and all we see is them walking into the white light. Cut, end of line. It would imply that everyone else dies.
So go back and watch Kobol’s Last Gleaming, Part II:
From Battlestar Wiki:
“On Kobol, Baltar recognises Six “saved” him, and she takes him to see exactly why he has been chosen by God, and she walks him towards the ruined Opera House.
Entering it, he is shown the “face of things to come”, apparently a baby in a crib, the “first of the new generation of God’s children” – and he is to be their protector. “
May 18th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
Hi folks,
MaaaaaaAAAN that was a fracking GREAT episode. Adalla, I would have to concur that each episode seems to become my favourite one this season! However, Unfinished Business will always have a place in my heart
@Pavlov’s God: Holy crap, I got chills reading your ideas surrounding the devil/Lucifer playing some role with all of this. Heh heh LOVE the idea of the 7 cylons embodying the 7 sins. What does that make the final four? The 4 horsemen of the apocalypse? Or the 4 great archangels? And the final one? Lucifer/The Devil perhaps? Hmmm. You’re really getting my mind going here.
@JJ: I just about spit out my tea with the idea of STARBUCK being written in big yellow letters on the side of the Basestar. Wouldn’t THAT have made things a little easier for the Galactica to identify as possibly one of their own? haha
I also have to agree with Charles about what’s happened with Caprica Six and Tigh. I honestly don’t think it has anything to do with her being preggers ’cause you’re right, it doesn’t seem like two cylons can actually have children together. However, I suppose we haven’t seen a “Final Five” try with one of the Original 7. But I still don’t think she’s preggers. I think Cottle perhaps found some of Tigh’s DNA (whether sexual or simply dried Tigh blood on her from her wild beatings). I’m REALLY curious to see what happens there though!
Matt and I have shot the review and although we’re going to be in Washington DC for a few days for business, we’ll try really, really hard to get the review up ASAP. But we’ll definitely be checking out the BSGcast boards constantly, so keep the comments and theories flowing!
Thanks guys, you are awesome! And talk to you soon.
~Nat
P.S. I also wanted to say thank you for all your incredibly warm comments in the last post and for defending me. I can’t express enough how much appreciate your support and am honestly, rather humbled by it. Thank you. Oh and Steve, no hard feelings. You’re entitled to your own opinion and if you find me intolerable, that’s fine. Being a trained journalist and finding myself in the public eye quite often, I know criticism comes with the territory of this job. But the others are right, this forum is not a popularity contest. And if you can’t stand hearing me, you absolutely don’t need to watch the reviews. There is certainly enough going on in our comments section that you can interact with. Thanks!
May 18th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Heh, Steve is a douche. Matt and Nat are both rad.
May 18th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
Nat- YOU ROCK! Don’t ever leave us… :p
May 18th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
I almost forgot…y’all gotta check out Adalla’s site…it rocks! I popped in there last night and chatted for some time. The other stuff on the site is awesome too. You can download totally cool BSG gaming, etc.
Now of course I will always treat BSGCast as my first love but on Fridays after the show and we all post our immediate posts here y’all should rock on over to Adalla’s site and register/live chat! Give it a try it could be a great time while we digest our thoughts, etc.
May 18th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
I searched the board so forgive me if this is a repeat…
Has anyone noticed that during the opera house dream sequence (where we see Athena, Roslin, and Six sharing the dream) there were two flashes of the Hybrid ? I was fooling around pausing it to see what the pictures were and landed smack on top of a shot of hybrid !
Was the hybrid also sharing the vision? Maybe this is the source of the shared dream ?
We know that the three share the vision but what about Baltar…no confirmation yes or no that he also shares the same dream. Maybe if the hybrid is projecting the dream to the participants (since she says that the dying leader will know the truth of the opera house and that Kara is the harbinger of death) maybe she knows who the is final. Baltar is the protector of the new generation…why wouldn’t he be the final cylon ?
May 18th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
Hey Craig R.–
I like what you say about Gaeta, although I believe there is meaning to his song–meaning brought about by the pain of his injury and loss of his leg. It brings to mind the way there were parallels between Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader, when when he loses his hand battling his Dad, signaling the possiblilty that he is starting to become a machine like his Dad. A battle we know he wins for good, but his Dad lost to the Dark Side, interesting huh? Gaeta has something to do w/the FF and the future of humanity. As I was reading your post and your analysis for Gaeta, his pattern of fighting for right and losing, is almost identical to Lee Adama’s. Gaeta loses his leg, it’s obviously bringing about some kind of clarity to who Gaeta really is–the FF we’ve been waiting for? I don’t know, for some reason that would be so anticlimactic, I’d love for it to be 6 or Helo, although that is apparently not possible since no one in the Last Supper pic is supposedly in it. This is the exact same thing that happened to Lee when Starbuck “died”. She is like a part of his body and soul much like Gaeta’s leg, you know he still feels it, although it’s not there? This happens when someone wishes someone they lose to be back, more than anything, ie. Lee for Starbuck. So, Lee finally is on the path to his destiny, so it seems will Gaeta!
As for the speculation about the song? I think it’s someone who has not seen the clarity of his/her destiny as of yet–who will that be? I think it is one of the 6’s….she has been searching desperately for her and the cylon destiny since Day 1, and she is in pain, all the time, right? Just a thought…
Again, that song to me was as hauntingly beautiful, as the words Romo says to Lee right before they meet w/6, and he talks about the loss of the love of his life.
OMG! what a great epi!
Athena
May 18th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
Hi Natt,
It’s so interesting you brought up Lucifer, cause I was just thinking about that the other day in relation to the music we all make and the opera house. In the bible isn’t Lucifer the head of the heavenly choir? In more recent history it has been discovered that Lucifer was actually not evil at all. His/her definition was changed when the church went out of thier way to destroy the connotations of the sacred feminine and demonize anything that had to do with anything female. Another interesting point to note is that the origional definition of the word demon is acutally guardian.
It’s no suprise that in this lifetime Baltar was a scientist, because music in and of itself is a form of math. Perhaps Baltar is the programmer of the music that guides the 12 colonies to the light home to find god. Or to guide them to earth. It was music that awoke the final 4, and music that guided Starbuck to the basestars. What if Baltar is the creator of that music, and since he is the chosen protector of the next generation of gods children maybe Baltar is Lucifer. So if Lucifer is actually good, (only the reputation turned evil by men trying to destroy anything feminine) Lucifer is the male side, Satan is the female side of the exact same person. Baltar and Head Six. Am I makeing any sense. I know what I’m trying to say but I don’t know if I’m explaining it properly.
May 18th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
Oh I just thought of another thing! haha I have to get it out while it’s still fresh in my brain. (Just read my previous post to see my first point)
If demons are actually good, and are technically guardians and Baltar is Lucifer (the ultimate demon) then Baltar is Lucifer the protector of the next generation of gods children. In earth history the church went out of its way to destroy the reputation of the sacred feminine and the reputation of lucifer. The cylons went out of thier way to make Baltar look like the devil, the destroyer of the 12 colonies. They made him look like a monster in the eyes of the colonists. And the 7 models acted very much like the church did, especially during the crusades. But the feminine side of Lucifer…. or Head six guided and protected Baltar back to who he really is so he would protect and guide the next generation.
May 18th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
ROFL, I was just thinking about this. But instead of starbuck they should have written “Guess what I brought home THIS time!”
LOL
Adama, thanx for saying good things about BSG Pilots, I hope to see more people use the live chat room for some of these dicussions, including BSGcast
I’d LOVE a live BSGcast dicussion in our chatrooms, having Matt and Nat and everyone else just having a good time and discussing all this stuff in real time, feeding off of each other’s comments 
Only 3 episodes left for this half season, so only 3 more chances to use the BSG Pilots chat room before the next airing, in 2009.
May 18th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
I totally meant to say “Adam” and not Adama lol
where is my EDIT button grrr
May 18th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
Best episode so far this series for me. Really had a lot happening and a lot going on here. All of the characters in one show seemed like a rare treat these days and although Dee and Galen and people had very little to do any inclusion now at this stage in the game seems to have huge ramifications. I am not going to speculate on who the final Cylon is anymore *cough*Tom*cough* because this show isn’t just about figuring out who the last of the five are… its quality television week in and week out and I am just gonna sit back and let in unfold from here on out.
By the way… I knew that Tigh would snap soon!
May 18th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
Bearer,
Boomer was not in this episode. The Sharon who is the mother of Hera is Athena, who came with Helo and Kara from post-apocalyptic Caprica. Boomer has been living with the Cylons and was the Sharon who voted against the 8s and was seen kissing Cavil, so she is with him, wherever he is.
Baltar has been in the opera house before. He had a vision of it on Kobol, I believe, in which Six picks up Hera out of a cradle and tells him it will be his job to protect her. I’ve seen him in the opera house other times too, I think.
May 18th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
Ha Ha…Adalla called me Adama! Where’s my Admiral’s Wings dammit!
May 18th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
@ Atlantia
I also noticed the spliced in shot of the hybrid. Strangely, my TIVO would only pick up the image when I moved the recording forward, but not backwards. Anyway, I noticed it also.
In regards to Baltar, he has had the vision of the Opera House quite a few times, but I don’t think he was sleeping. On Kobol I think the images started right after he escaped the crashed raptor, so he could have been in shock. The strange thing is that Baltar knows Roslin has shared a dream with Six and Athena, however, he has failed to inquire what the dream is about. I think if Baltar knew the dream was about the Opera House he would connect the dots rather easily because he’s a smart guy.
May 18th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
I find it interesting, now as I am reading through the posts, that Athena, is the daughter of Zeus, correct? Hera is her daughter, Hera is wife of Zeus, not mother of Athena, but Queen of the gods, nonetheless.
I am not sure why they call her Athena? Athena is the goddess of loyalty, love, wisdom and beauty. She is also known as the warrior goddess, and a powerful one who sat amongst the gods on Mt. Olympus. It makes sense since Athena had no mother, but I have no idea why they called her Athena. It is fascinating how she has given birth to the Queen of of the gods,but it makes sense since Hera is part of the heralding of a new race. I love it!
As for the Opera House, I remembered that when Roslin was first having the visions w/that Priestess (the one who died on Kobol), she would see the map of Kobol, and the center of the city was the Opera House. Somehow that is the significance of them being in the Opera House–it was the center of the place where –now I’m confused–is Kobol where all the tribes lived before separating and the 13th went to Earth?
A
May 18th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
Don’t count out the Beings of light/Count Iblis ideas. I remember in an interview just before Season 4 that RDM said that in some respects he was following the intended story arc of the original BSG even more closely that the original did. I’ve been trying to find the exact words but no luck. It was the week Season 4 was starting if anyone can find it. The pristine viper that Kara came back from the dead in (and which was supposed to have strange hieroglyphics on according to a RDM podcast) leads me to believe there will be some sort of being of light connection at some point.
Nat, Glad you liked my idea. You completed my though process with the final five being the four horsemen of the apocalypse and the devil.
You and Matt do a great job every week. Just found you at the end of season 3 and you keep my BSG addiction going.
May 18th, 2008 at 7:05 pm
Well, it’s time for me to stop merely enjoying this excellent forum and start contributing. So here’s my first post motivated firstly what I believe is the best BSG episode to date – I literally caught myself saying “Unbelievable!” out loud when it ended and secondly Sirslam for recommending this site and convincing me to take our conversations to the broader BSG community.
So … I think this episode beats “33″ for tension and despair, with more anxiety than “Scattered” and deeper raw human emotion than “Exodus” … in my opinion of course
What I really enjoy about BSG is the core fight for survival and the associated emotional rollercoaster. Take for instance the look on Tigh’s face when he is informed that D’Anna can identify him. He is conflicted between wanting the confirmation that he really is a Cylon (part of why I believe he visits Caprica 6 on the sly) and not wanting to be exposed perhaps less for the obvious alienation and threat it poses but more likely that he dreads losing his relationship with Adama which has been the cornerstone of his reason to live since he poisoned Ellen.
Something else I noticed was how different the battle readiness sequence played out on Galactica. Yes they were surprised by the Base Star jumping in, as they almost always are, but this time the scene was orchestrated differently to show not how defensive the Galactica is, but how lethal it can be. We literally feel the despair because without confirmation that the Base Star is friendly, they know (and we know) that Vipers will damage it, but the Galactica will obliterate it. A great scene overall matched throughout to form a fantastic episode.
Finally I absolutely love that the Cylons have discovered humanity and embrace it. I love this part of the story. It follows the same theme in Asimov/Silverberg’s Positronic Man {yes once upon a time sci-fi was something you read in a book printed on paper
} that in order to be human, you must be mortal and live with its sense of urgency and frailty.
Well I must get back to real life for a bit. I can’t wait 2 weeks. I might have to watch Razor next Friday night to get a decent fix.
By the way, it’s a pleasure to make everyone’s acquaintance.
May 18th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
I’d like to share a few epiphnies that I’ve had about the show, not all relating to this episode. Forgive me if similar thoughts have been shared elsewhere before.
1. Apollo:
Lee Adama is a character who has had to change roles alot over the course of the show. Simply put, he’s been a
Fighter Pilot,
Military investigator(Black Market, The Captain’s Hand),
Lawyer(Crossroads I & II),
and an apologist for a controvertial new religion (Escape Velocity)
Sadly, it has come to my attention that his character is nothing more than Tom Cruise’s career. Don’t believe me? Remember that on night stand on New Caprica? (”I… LOVE… KARA… THRACE!!!”)
2. Galactica
Back in the Mini-series, Galactica was a pristine relic. As the war began, she began to show more and more battle damage all over her hull. In her present state, as of Season 4, the big G is covered in all manner of dings, dents, craters and pockmarks.
Epiphany: The CGI team is actually trying to model the ship after Edward Olmos’ face. (I hear that in the Series finale, Galactica will actually cut itself while shaving.)
3. The Cylons
The Cylon fleet is divided in half, with the 2s, 6s, and 8s on one side looking for Earth, and the 1s, 4s, 5s and Boomer trying to wipe out the human race.
Did the “Bad Cylons”(Cavil’s fleet) really think that through? So lets see here. Entire fleets of nothing but Cavils, Simons and Dorals. Blueballssayswhat! Considering how openly amorous the Cylons typically are, this might pose a problem. So either Boomer, – the only female within lightyears – is going to be very busy (and sore), or the dudes are going to have to find some other outlet to work on their frustrations. Then again, there are those lobotomized Raiders. (As Starbuck said, “Just think of it as a goat.” :p )
——————————————————————————————————————————————————–
Seriously though, I think it needs to be said that Hera is a remarkably developed two year old.
Also, I’m wondering what Tyrol was thinking when Athena came up to him looking for Hera. At first he seamed to want to say, “as if I cared,” but after some reflection, he seemed to be genuinly concerned for her. Maybe that was the inner parent in him, or maybe it was because the Cylon in him saw the Signifigance of Hera, and went after her.
Hey, wasn’t the Basestar’s FTL down? How was it even able to make the jump?
Also, what did Roslin expect? I mean, who goes on to a ship, without consulting anybody, and plugs in machinery of which you don’t know the full capabilities? Sure, I’ve got nothing better to do other than die of cancer, so I’m going to connect a fully sentient machine back to the ship that it was until recently in control of, and hope that it will happily do nothing except spoon-feed me the information I’d like to know. It will also be interesting to know how the Cylons are going to handle the fact that they’ve got dozens of Pilots and Marines on board. “Oops, our bad, sorry guys, I guess we’ll just jump back then.” I don’t know, but there also appeared to be an empty looking Viper MkVII just floating in space. Airlock, anyone?
Also, now that Gaeta’s lost his leg, he and Tigh can become Pirates! Tigh can command, and Felix will just sing sea(space?) shanties. Tory can be the Wench. Anders can join too, since he’s already a buckineer. Do you think he’s ever considered it? He’d make a wonderful dread pirate Roberts.
May 18th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
Hi all,
Again, we have another great episode. Just a few thoughts on the episode and 4.10. As far as Gaeta’s singing, and his song
Alone she sleeps in the shirt of man
With my three wishes clutched in her hand
The first that she be spared the pain
That comes from a dark and laughing reign
When she finds love may it always stay true
This I beg for the second wish I made too
But wish no more my life you can take
To have her please just one day wake
To have her please just one day wake
I have observed that men want only two things when in that kind of pain. Their wives and/or mothers. I mean we human males are brought up to be stoic creatures in most all circumstances….and the two women we love in our lives, wife and mom, are the only two creatures that are generally acceptable to be emotional around. I think Gaeta is longing for his true love. Mothers always love their sons, and wives(devoted women) always love their men. Theres no better way to remember the love of a woman than through song. That may be more general and existential for BSG, but I think it still holds true.
Baseship leaves but it comes back in short order. People are sworn in, commands change, general uproar, not unique in this series. We see Adama berating Tigh for something”What were you thinking” in regard to the 6. He probably knocked her up. Apparently she realized what Tight “needed” This leaves me with my final point.
I still think that Ellen was a 6 model that had fallen in love, married, and was murdered by Tigh. I still think she looked just like a younger 6 when she met Tigh, grew old with him, but it was no coincidence that she survived the attack, and although protected him as an individual still undermined all of his efforts to destroy cylons. Be it enabling him as a drunk on the Galactica, betraying him on New Caprica, or being with him as a younger version of the same model in captivity on the Galactica and getting knocked up by him. She always takes care of him as an individual, but always hinders his efforts to fight the toasters. They both happen to love each other, that love is manifest by a child, but they might not realize that they are both cylons, the 6 and the final 5 model Tigh. Imagine that. Two cylons not realizing that they are both cylons, but still developing a love that gives them children. A gift that both humans and cylons want!
If that aint a mind frak, tell me what is?
Hoop
May 18th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
Man, shows how much I pay attention, huh? haha. Thanks for correcting me everyone.
May 18th, 2008 at 8:00 pm
Hey guys, could you do a ~Super Special Edition~ of BSGCast this Friday to fill the gaping void in our collective souls?
May 18th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
trueedge2097- But it was set up before Season 3. Now I will admit, some authors, they do preplot out their story series while others don’t plan (Stephen King is a good example of an author who doesn’t pre-plan, himself stated that he didn’t have any idea about what direction his “Dark Tower” story series would lead throughout its course). Now, Ron Moore and David Eick knew from the beginning of the show that there was going to be an ending. So, it’s possible that they may have been able to plot out a lot more behind their mythology than what we’re seeing. So far, we’ve seen evidence that has suggested that maybe the Beings of Light and the “Count Iblis” character may be involved with a lot more than just the “current events”. But then again, do you really believe Moore would come out and say, “Hey, guess what? The Beings of Light and Count Iblis is involved in the whole thing.” I mean, did Orson Welles come out and say what Rosebud really was at the beginning of “Citizen Kane”? Was it obvious at the start of “The Sixth Sense” about the true nature of Bruce Willis’ character that was revealed at the very end? Was it obvious from the start that Neo was “the one” in “The Matrix”? No. We had to find out these things within time. We’ve gotten small clues, some of them more obvious than others.
What clues? Well, for starters, the first appearance of the Opera House was in Season 1. Baltar saw it. Then D’anna saw it, and then Roslin, Athena, Six and Hera in Season 3. Now, we know there is only 1 unknown Cylon. Which means the either Baltar or Roslin is the last one, because both saw the opera house. And if one of them are the last one, than the other one would have to be human. That would mean that both human and Cylon alike shared the same vision. Another clue is more obvious: Starbuck. She died and came back, no memory of dying, ship in pristine condition. And I am surprised that no one else acknowledges the fact that she saw the Basestar in “Faith” BEFORE the Cylon Civil War began. Now, other than the Cylons, which is becoming more obvious that Starbuck isn’t, who has the ability to resurrect the dead? Simple: The Beings of Light. In the old series, in the episode “War of the Gods”, they brought Apollo back to life after he was killed. They gave him, Sheba and Starbuck the knowledge to find Earth and then wiped out their memory of meeting the Beings of Light. Now, Kara “Starbuck” Thrace applies to what had happened in that episode. She died, and was brought back. She had knowledge about Earth and she doesn’t remember how she got there or back. And the vision of the Basestar she had before the CCW began? It could be possible that the Beings of Light had the ability to show things that were going to happen, and Starbuck saw it when they showed her the way to Earth. And I suspect that maybe the Lords of Kobol weren’t Cylons from a “previous run” of “all of this has happened before and all of it will happen again”, but that they may have been the Beings of Light themselves (in a deleted scene from “Kobol’s Last Gleaming, Part 1″, when Tigh asked what it was that started the war on Kobol, Eloshia said that “one of the gods wanted to be above the others”, and it sparked a war amongst them. Does that description NOT fit Count Iblis? And Head Six, in that same deleted scene, says that it was nothing but lies and that there was “only the one”. This is suggesting that the Cylon God is actually the “Count Iblis” for this show).
Now, do you honestly believe that the show would be as interesting if we knew of the ending up front? Especially if it comes to this? And do you honestly feel that Moore, Eick and the cast and crew would honestly let the cat out of the bag about the whole thing? My answer is no. Because it’s about the journey. And if you reveal the biggest, if not the most important thing, before we reach the conclusion, then what was the point of watching the whole show?
Athena- To answer your question, you’ve actually answered it yourself. The Goddess Athena was, as you’ve said, “a goddess of loyalty, love, wisdom and beauty”. Now, look at that description and compare it to Sharon “Athena” Agathon. She’s been loyal to Helo and she has proven and continues to prove her loyalty “every day” (her words from “A Measure of Salvation”) to the crew of Galactica. “Love” is definately a no-brainer. She loves Helo, she loves the crew, she loves Hera… Need I go on? She DEFINATELY has wisdom. She had to have it when it came to Season 2’s “Home” 2-parter, seeing that she knew more about the scriptures and a lot more about Cylons and their technology than anyone else in the crew (other examples include “Flight of the Phoenix”, where she was able to read the code for the logic bomb to find out what it was doing). Beauty is definately a no-brainer. Some say Six and D’anna are beautiful. But I feel that Athena is more beautiful than Six and D’anna combined. Maybe the reason why I think that is because Grace Park appears to be more down to Earth than Tricia Helfer or Lucy Lawless. Grace looks like the kind of girl you’d be more likely to run into at a library or a shopping mall, or even a video store than Tricia and Lucy. But of course, that’s just me.
May 18th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
Adalla:
Went to the site, I loved the Jukebox, won’t let me get the music for my iPhone, can I get a CD? Will pay! penneytax@msn.com
May 18th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
For those interested, this is what Michael Angeli, the writer for Guess What’s Coming to Dinner, had to say about Gaeta’s Lament. This is an excerpt from Bear McCreary’s blog, full blog post can be read here: http://www.bearmccreary.com/blog/?p=349#more-349
It seems the Gaeta’s Lament singing is not about D’anna after all.
Just a taste of what it’s going to feel like when 90% of our theories that we created and discussed are going to be proven wrong as things get unveiled to us
Still, it’s all about the fun and enhancement of the BSG experience 
~Adalla
May 18th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
YAy!, It aired again to night, God’s bless Tivo!, well DVR
May 18th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
Man the comments are flying over a hundred already in three days. I don’t think I can add anything. I’m loving the theories about the muisc. Seriously, check out Bear’s Battlestar blog. There is a lot of insight into the show. The article about Gaeta’s song is really fasinating.
“Perhaps Baltar is the programmer of the music that guides the 12 colonies to the light home to find god. Or to guide them to earth. It was music that awoke the final 4, and music that guided Starbuck to the basestars. What if Baltar is the creator of that music, and since he is the chosen protector of the next generation of gods children maybe Baltar is Lucifer. So if Lucifer is actually good, (only the reputation turned evil by men trying to destroy anything feminine) Lucifer is the male side, Satan is the female side of the exact same person. Baltar and Head Six. Am I makeing any sense. I know what I’m trying to say but I don’t know if I’m explaining it properly.”
I get exactly what you are saying. In the BSG Pilots chat on friday, I pointed out that we haven’t seen Head Six since Baltar made his speech in Escape Velocity, I think that’s the episode. The point I made is that when Baltar makes this speech is the moment that he finally embraces Head Six’s words about god without doubt and becomes the messiah. Because Baltar embraces the message he no longer needs Head Six, hence the reason we haven’t seen her. Something interesting that Adalla pointed out is that it’s almost like Baltar has become HeadSix. I thought those were some interesting points in relation to your comment. I had a simlar notion when I noticed the cross at Baltar’s back in the BSG code article I posted a while back. What if Baltar is both Christ/Anti-Christ, in other words Baltar/HeadSix.
Adam I absolutely agree about BSG Pilots. I had a lot of fun in the chat room friday night after watching the show. Some very interesting thoughts. Adalla had a really cool theory that concerned the cycle theory and the final five being Human Cylon hybrids in the same way that Heara is a hybrid.
I’m so glad I found BSGCast. I’ve been looking a place to express my love of the show. Before this I only had two options sci-fi forums and a forum called FrackHeads. The bad part about those two places is that they total opposites of the same coin. One kisses RDM’s ass while the other does nothing but flame the guy and the show. Here I feel like there is an intelligent discussion about the show. Don’t get me started on all the appreciation and shipper threads at sci-fi. I just wish BSG cast had a proper board. The comments are great, but if the number of posts tracks like last week, we could be looking at 300 or 400 comments. A lot to wade through. I say we make Adalla’s Bsg Pilots the unofficle BSGCast forum and chat room. Just my two cents.
May 18th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
I couldn’t be the only one waiting for both Natalie and her number 8 Sharon
to simultaneously turn to Leoben and say, “Not Kara!”
When they were discussing taking a hostage on the base star…
and then just see Leoben look at both of them like , “What?”
May 18th, 2008 at 10:29 pm
Hey Matt and Nat, I just had an odd thought come into my head: After the show is completed, what’s going to happen to BSGCast? I mean, are you going to continue it after the series is completed? Are you going to continue the BSGCast if/when the “Caprica” prequel starts? Or are you going to cover more fan made stuff (like fan fiction, fan films, etc), or the comic book series from Dynamite Comics? I’m just a little curious to know.
May 18th, 2008 at 10:56 pm
Hi,
Matt and Nat thank you for a great show. BSG set a new standard for scifi you guys set a new standard for podcasting!!
I found this site durring the airing of season 3. I am wondering if your older podcast are somewhere still avalible on the net?
This episode : oh my god. simple three words to describe this episode
The comments: I think some people are overthinking the show, we should look at things in the whole storylane of the 4 seasons.
Just anjoy the episodes. Don’t overthink every move ore sentence. Just sit back and relaxe.
But it is fun to read al your theories: it is like adalla says
” Just a taste of what it’s going to feel like when 90% of our theories that we created and discussed are going to be proven wrong as things get unveiled to us Still, it’s all about the fun and enhancement of the BSG experience”
keep up the excellent podcasts!!!!!!!
May 18th, 2008 at 11:32 pm
OMG I’m re watching Faith before I go to bed and I just caught something that I didn’t notice before. When Emily first describes her vision to Roslin she uses the same line Anders used when the eight died. “Don’t be scared I’m with you”. WTF does that mean? She describes the voice as a presence. Between that and the numbers on the ferry I’m convinced the final five are delivers into the next realm. What that means I don’t know. The final five are the Lords of Kobol or Beings of Light? Adalla you might be right about the final five being the last in the cycle. Sorry had to get that out of my system before bed. :p
May 19th, 2008 at 2:28 am
It is possible that the F5 are guides to the afterlife. It has been my theory since around the halfway point of season 3 that the F5 are the Lords of Kobol. I don’t think they are the Beings of Light, though. I am not sure we will ever see them.
May 19th, 2008 at 5:04 am
Sparky,
Again, I respect your opinion and freedom to post here but something is bugging me just a little bit. I was extremely lucky to meet EJO several years ago. He is a great actor and judging from the 10 minutes myself and some friends spent talking to him he is a wonderful human being. I’m a little offended at the remark you made about the Galactica and his face. Humor should never come at the expense of someone’s uncontollable physical attributes. You made some good observations in your post then frakked it up with tasteless Boomer “blue balls” and the EJO stuff…
May 19th, 2008 at 6:29 am
If the are supposed to be some sort of “family” under God then where is the mother figure? It’s kinda a way for me to reason that Laura Roslin is the Final Cylon.
May 19th, 2008 at 7:52 am
Perhaps someone has touched on this before, but the female hybrid is very much like the pilot in Norman Spinrad’s “The Void Captain’s Tale”. In both stories, the navigator guides the ship through…folds in space? wormholes? whatever…and in doing so, experiences moments of orgasmic elation. Also, as with the hybrid, Spinrad’s pilots aren’t completely human and cannot interact with others in traditionals ways. Anyway, the aforementioned title is worth checking out if you enjoy speculative/science fiction. Spinrad is like Philip Dick, but he hasn’t been “rediscovered” just yet.
Matt and Nat, thanks so much for this site. It’s alway fun and thought-provoking.
May 19th, 2008 at 8:59 am
Irregardless of whether Gaeta is the final Cylon or a red herring, he’s being set up for a larger role in the show. Here’s how the writers seem to operate on the show:
1. Writers determine that a character is going to become Very Important.
2. Writers start writing episodes focusing on that character, or at least giving more screen time to that character than usual.
3. Writers don’t explain why That Character is getting so much screen time. Some of those episodes or arcs may suck.
4. Character is revealed to have some Very Important role, thus justifying earlier screen time.
This is the case for minor characters who are about to get killed off (Billy, Kat, Cally). There’s one episode centered around them where they get a moment of glory and then disappear.
This is also the case for second-tier characters that are about to be revealed as Cylons (Anders, Tyrol, Tigh, Tory). They get more of a build up, sometimes through weird character development episodes that don’t appear to further the real plot (Tyrol had two last season). The writers do this so the characters aren’t completely cardboard when their importance is revealed.
In my opinion, the best indication for Gaeta being a Cylon is not his role in the story (which, incidentally, does make him a fit for the Five), but that he’s being set up for a much larger role than before.
May 19th, 2008 at 9:02 am
I can see Gaeta as the final cylon.
Each of the final five just happened to develop and gain the trust of some of the most important individuals(human) on Galactica. The only major Human character in the show which seems without is Baltar. Gaeta like Tigh did on this last epiosde, helps the Human race to stay on track for what’s to come; their destiny. Without Gaeta giving out the information on New Caprica, the human’s destiny would have been ruined because they would not have left that planet.
Prediction: At some point after Galactica jumps after the cylons, Gaeta will kill himself and be reborn on the resurrections ship… maybe he kills himself ending an episode with a group of humans running into him again inside the resurrection ship; he justs seems to unhappy/unwilling to live w/o his leg. I hope they get his reaction after he resurrects…
May 19th, 2008 at 9:23 am
I’m really surprised that nobody has mentioned this yet.
Don’t you remember Head!Six telling Baltar in Season 1 or 2 (or both) that Athena was having thier baby? Head!Six, whoever/whatever she really is, claimed Hera as her and Baltar’s child. I thought that this was going to fall by the wayside, but the continued visions of a Caprica/Head! syle 6 accompanied by Baltar taking Hera away tells me that I was wrong! I was always really interested in what her justification could possibly be for saying that. Repeatedly. It has to be SOMETHING. Was Hera concieved during some crazy Head!Sex between life and death and magically implanted into Athena? Ok, I only said that part just to have a theory. I don’t have one at all, I just know it’s signifigant in some way.
Also: I don’t really see the 6 as the devil thing. Not at all. Just because she wears red? Red is also the color of sexuality, which Caprica 6 has in spades! And I don’t think the mark of the beast was in Hera’s drawings. Unless the mark of the beast is 6666666666666666666666666666666666 for several pages. I think that’s a little too much of a stretch.
I’ve also heard a lot of BSG watching Christians are getting offended by the Baltar as Jesus thing. First of all, the bible doesn’t include much of Jesus’ life. For all we know he was actually a deeply flawed individual who had a transforming experience that helped him become the man we still read about 2,000 years later. But that’s really beside the point. To me it seems obvious that Baltar is not acting as Jesus but as more of a Billy Graham character- a televangelist. Those guys get taught in embarassing affairs all the time. They are human, not the son of god, but are worshiped as if they are closer to him than the rest of us. Just because he’s being portrayed as a religious figure and has long brown hair (his natural color, I think) doesn’t mean they’re saying he’s Jesus.
From what I read on Bear’s blog, Gaeta’s song was supposed to be connected with the hybrid being unplugged. I think it goes along with D’Anna/3 quite nicely though. Always with the double meanings!
@Adam- I agree with you. Back in season 3 someone on the livejournal Battlestar_Blog made fun of fat Chief’s fat baby. I found that extremely offensive as well. Is it just me or are babies supposed to be fat? Isn’t that why we have the term BABY FAT? Not to mention that the post was just a blatant example of the fat hatred in our society. Anyone who isn’t perfect is made fun of. Even size 6 celebrities in their bikinis and perfectly normal babies get made fun of for their terrrible, horrible, sinful fat!
May 19th, 2008 at 9:48 am
I had offered to host a dedicated forum (and sub-forums, as many as they wish) under the complete control of Matt and Nat at BSG Pilots. I also offered a permanent dedicated room in our Launch Tube (chat room) dedicated specifically to BSGcast.com
I feel BSGcast and BSGpilots can complement each other and enhance the overall experience for both of our visitors.
I do understand though that BSGcast would want to keep discussions from their visitors on their board, and honestly this “one thread per episode” has been pretty darn awesome. I love the simplicity of BSGcast.com. I mean I tried such places like SciFi forums and Ragnar Anchorage, and SciFi has like threads that are 10,000 posts long, and Ragnar Anchorage has like 50 forums to navigate and it’s a bit of a mess. That’s why I love this site, cause you just come here, watch the awesome BSGcasts, and have one place to see everybody’s thoughts, and it’s just easy on the eyes, simplicity really rules.
Having said this, it does have it’s limitations. At 220+ comments per episode and rising, we are truly getting so many theories that it’s a bit hard to track at times. Someone might have great theories, and they get lost in past episodes among a hundred other posts and theories.
I think that’s where BSG Pilots can come in to help, by providing a dedicated forum for BSGcast where BSGcast.com visitors can participate in multi-threaded discussions, and create their own threads. We could also use our own main discussion forum for the show, either way.
The important thing would be to not take away from the interaction that goes on here. It’d be best if BSG Pilots supplemented and complemented BSGcast.com’s discussions, but we dont want to replace them.
Also, BSG Pilots is the only BSG website that offers live chat services that I’m aware of, and belive me, getting on the chat room after a show and having even one person to discuss it with in real time honestly a great experience. Plus we could have some Q&A sessions with Matt and Nat, really the sky is not the limit with the chat room. A lot can be done.
It is ultimately up to Matt and Nat if they want to take up the offers from BSG Pilots
And we understand if they dont want a forum to be hosted, but I think using the chat room would be beneficial 
Either way, I’m sure the rest of this discussion can go on in private between the admins of the two sites.
For now, lets break that 220 comment record! We are well on our way to do just that if we keep this up
~Adalla
May 19th, 2008 at 10:44 am
I think you could class Natalie as yet another character who has come up hard against the Commandments of BSG:
1) Be Careful What You Wish For, for it Will Come Back to Bite You in The Ass.
2) If It Seemed Like A Good Idea At The Time, It Wasn’t.
3) The Law of Unintended Consequences (with a side-order of Karmic Payback) is alive and well, and it doesn’t like you. Not one little bit.
May 19th, 2008 at 11:03 am
Great eposide!!
The immaculate conception of Hera is now confimed! Yes, head 6 appears to be the soccer mom for little Hera. The blood line between head 6, baltar and the surrogate 8 are all within Roslin and explain clearly of her visions in the opera house.
Hera’s destiny could be either be the new Jesus, or she will be the Eve figure who lives with Adam portrayed by Nicky when reaching Earth.
Concerning the final cylon or the number 7; more than ever it looks as though Gaeta is the one! His absence from The Last Supper photo, his increased screen time, and the secret he holds to himself from the days of New Caprica give suspicion that he is the 7. Only Baltar knows of his acts of treason as mentioned in “Taking a break from all your worries.”
The final shot of the hybrid being activating and shouting “jump” was incredible. The hybrid jumped the basestar to the resurrection ship to unbox the 3 line which will inform the dying leader of the final 5.
Lots of fireworks ahead. The Colonel getting physical with Adama; Diana and Romo Lamkin returning; Athena explaining her murder of the 6, The President using Bush like political tactics to keep the people in the dark and the number 7 to be revealed are just a few.
It will be a long….long break until next week and even longer if BSG doesn’t air the final 10 episodes until 2009.
May 19th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
I didn’t even consider Roslin having some of Heara’s blood as the cause for Roslin sharing the Opera House vision. Good call!!! This might explain why Athena is having the visions too. Being Heara’s mother she also has this blood.
After watching Faith and this week’s episode last this is what I think is going on. A lot of this comes from a disscusion I had with Adalla. I believe the final five are Hybrids from the last cycle. They are both the last and first in each cycle. They are the ones who figure out how to ascend into the next realm. At the start of each cycle they seed the galaxy with humans and take on the role of the Lords of Kobol and start to influence the course of history, lead the humans to make cylons and the cylons wars. They might even play a hand in evolving the cylons into the sigfigant seven. I think the end of humanity is their way of preparing the humans and cylons for the next realm. They use the journey of earth as the final step. I think both the visions Laura has and the head people are visions from the ones who already crossed over who are showing Humans/Cylons the way into this relam. I think the final cylon is Heara. The last of this cycle and first of the next cycle. I think what is going to happen is Roslin and Baltar will discover this fact from the 3s. The truth of the Opera House is that the final five are the gatekeepers between life and death. The Opera house being the home of the final five. Roslin will accept this and die. Baltar will return to the fleet to deliver the message to the four and take Hera, Nikki and those that do not wish to go into the realm to earth.
May 19th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
I was wondering if the basestar hybrid could be Helena Cain’s abducted sister. While not a part of all the the mysteries it would add an answer to what happened to her and where the ship hybrids come from.
On another front, I notice that the next episode will be shown in the UK several days early (Tuesday) before being broadcast in the US/Canada. I wonder if it will be leaked early on the internet before the broadcast date here?
May 19th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
“I was wondering if the basestar hybrid could be Helena Cain’s abducted sister. While not a part of all the the mysteries it would add an answer to what happened to her and where the ship hybrids come from.”
interesting idea. it would be even more dramatic if Cain were the 5th cylon *cue Twilight Zone music*
btw, does each base ship have a hybrid? if so, i’m assuming they’re all the same?
May 19th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Hi, it’s my first post here.
Thanx to a link in this forum I found the BSGPilots site with links to other sites where I finally can watch the season 4 episodes.
SciFi.com doesn’t let me watch the episodes, something like “not able from you location”
I’m in Europe and I had no chance to see the season 4 episodes so far.
I watched BSG cast to keep informed and because I like to see the recaps of Matt and Nat, but it’s not so ggreat to be spoiled.
NOW thanx to this forum I watched the episodes up to Guess whats coming to dinner.
wow what an episode
..roslin caught on a basestar
my theory about the final cylon:
It’s Kara’s Father
May 19th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
PART TWO (where the hell ist the rest of my first post?) I think I did something wrong
—————————————————————————————————–
FINAL CYLON: Kara’s father I’m sure. We will meet him later on the show.
And Kara is a hybrid that’s why all cylons know about her special destiny.
If my prophecy ist right can I pleas have one of these alienware T shirts.
AGAIN: final cylon = Papa Thrace
Bye folks
May 19th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
Did anyone else get annoyed with Helo in the beginning of the episode when Demetrius didn’t jump? He was told the FTL wasn’t wokring and he just went “Gods damnit…”
I felt like that would have been yell-worthy, with him slamming something on the table or something
May 19th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
kara’s father as the final cylon? they never talked about her father nor have we ever seen him – if he was the 5th that would be the dullest revelation to ever come out of the series. it’s definitely not him.
May 19th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
Going back to Faith for a quicky, has anyone noticed the distribution of the people waiting for Roslin on “the other side” (on their last shot). There are Seven to the left, Five to the center, and three to the left. To me these represent the significant seven, the final five, and the three “head” beings that have appeared on the show. So that got me further thinking of prime numbers. 3, 7, and 5 are numbers that are only divisable by one and themself. So prime numbers that we are missing in the immediate sequence are (ONE) Which may represent the (1) harbinger of death or A dying leader. (ELEVEN) which represents the known models, and (THIRTEEN) which may represent an array of things, 13th God, 13th tribe, or 13th being of cylon lineage (which would be Hera). If you think of it in a certain way Hera was born a cylon not made into one.
May 19th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
Has anyone thought that there have only been 5 people that have gone back and forth from the Opera house? The sixth person died as a result from visiting the Opera House (D’anna Biers glowy eyes moment)
May 19th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
D’anna biers died because she saw thier faces. All of the other people who have been in the opera house have seen beings made of light but not had a clear view of thier faces. They don’t know for sure who they are. Except for D’anna.
May 19th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
People have been asking if Baltar also shares the visions with Roslin and Athena and I believe the answer is no. Why? Because he didnt “turn on the switch” meaning he didnt step into the light of the Eye of Jupiter. The previous time he was in the Opera house he was pretty much invited by head six so he has no way of going there on his own. Mr. Baltar has missed his boat, so either he catches another one or the Gaius seen in the collective vision is just a place value for someone else.
May 19th, 2008 at 8:36 pm
NEED WEB CAST – dragging myself to computer – need Matt & Nat – need my fix – addicted to Matt & Nat – OOHHH the agony! whoa is me, need answers, need laughter,
NEED Matt & Nat
OK pychio post done! But really we need you guys! Have fun on your trip! Oh yes someone asked if during the break maybe you guys can do a special edition Web Cast. Like go over all the Hybrid stuff, or maybe your theoies you had that have come true or not come true.
END OF LINE
May 19th, 2008 at 10:02 pm
Hey there, first time poster here. I just found this podcast at the beginning of season four and was so excited to see so many of the possible theories and conclusions that I came up with were shared by so many others on the show and this site. I was always convinced that there is a third party involved in this story (too many frakking imaginary friends!) and vaguely recalled some angelic beings in the original series. I was so happy to see that I wasn’t the only one!
The past couple of episodes have opened up so many more possibilities and got me so excited that I just had to leave some comments, the first one being about Felix Gaeta. I’ve heard people guessing that he was the fifth final cylon for so long and still never saw him as a possibility. But in this episode, he seems to have been put in the spotlight as a conscience possibility, seemingly pointed out by Anders. With Gaeta as someone to watch out for, one of the things that the hybrid in Razor comes to mind:
“And the fifth, though still in the shadow yet clawing for the light, hungry for redemption, that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering.”
This statement has had me theorizing for months now, but Gaeta seems to fit the “suffering” part like a glove. But this could also be intentional misdirection. In fact, I think Moore is setting us up for a didn’t-see-that-coming revelation with slight misdirection. The “hungry for redemption” segment has been what I have been focusing on up until now and came up with a couple of possibilities with the mindset of storytelling misdirection. One character that might fit that aspect is Kendra Shaw. She very plainly fit the “hungry for redemption” portion with her acknowledgment to the hybrid of a desire for absolution. But for storytelling purposes, revealing a briefly explored character as the fifth cylon would not have a very big impact. So who else has a shady past and might be “hungry for redemption” ? What other character would we maybe not foresee the writers revealing as the fifth? How about Tom Zarek? How cool would that be? The original Apollo turns out to be the top cylon in the new series? But I don’t know. This is just me jumping ahead of the game, trying to anticipate Moore’s moves.
One last thing that struck me: is it just me or did I hear Baltar quoting Shakespeare in his radio broadcast in the episode “Faith”? I think I was hearing Hamlet. I know I heard something about “the undiscovered country”. If this is the case, was this an oversight on the writers’ part or intentional? I mean, how could Baltar know anything about popular earth literature? The same way 4 of the final 5 were hearing Bob Dylan? Or does the “third party” have something to do with it? Hmm…
May 19th, 2008 at 10:22 pm
Okay, I’m putting something here about the whole 13th thing that Xanthosis placed here. In a set of deleted scenes from Season 2’s “Downloaded”, there was a whole subplot where Baltar, with the help of Gina and D’anna, was going to kidnap Hera. Now, in one of the deleted scenes, Gina despises the fact that Hera was named after a “false god” and that she and D’anna should refer to her as “13″ from that moment on (thereby labeling her as the 13th Cylon model).
May 20th, 2008 at 12:29 am
By the way, Matt, has anyone ever told you that you look like the ranger Marcus Cole in Babylon 5?
May 20th, 2008 at 1:52 am
Kara’s Destiny. I think during the next few episodes we will get more insight into this through flashbacks. I believe that the Leoben model has been watching Kara since she was a kid. Following the battle 40 years ago the skin-job models planted themselves into the societies on the different planets. I think Loeben has been watching Kara her whole life. Ron Moore is not going to identify the hidden 5th model until the season continues in 2009 and even then not until the very end of the series. For the next few episodes I would rather discuss Earth and Kara since I believe we will find out more about them during the episodes we will see in 2008. I think Kara died in that crash. I guess she is an angel or a cylon. I have a feeling we might get to see her original ship/body in some crash. Especially if they do find Earth soon we will know what happened and what her destiny really is…Enough F5 speculation! Know one will know that until it’s revealed.
So say we all
May 20th, 2008 at 4:06 am
I’m not sure why this came to me originally but since everyone is speculating on the final Cylon…here is an observation I made several months ago…
“Husker” stumbled onto the original lab ship that made the skin jobs and housed the first Hybrid. In Razor when he tries to free the prisoners you can see that it’s Leoben and Cap 6 through the slightly opened door! I believe the original humans that the 7 were modeled afterwere in that room. I just wonder if Adama was patterned also? At one point in that sequence he blacks out and goes into a vision…who knows what happened there. Maybe i’m reaching with that but I’ve always felt that there was more significance to that scene than meets the eye. It’s just another fun theory to add to the mass of awesome theories here. RDM must visit this site and laughs his ass off. LOL!
May 20th, 2008 at 5:22 am
“Husker” stumbled onto the original lab ship that made the skin jobs and housed the first Hybrid. In Razor when he tries to free the prisoners you can see that it’s Leoben and Cap 6 through the slightly opened door! I believe the original humans that the 7 were modeled afterwere in that room.”
are you sure it was Leoben? the actor who plays Leoben isn’t even credited for Razor, but Doral is. maybe it was Doral you were thinking of?
May 20th, 2008 at 6:18 am
Just a quick note, and sorry if this has been mentioned already.
What if Lee is the ‘dying leader’ that has the truth of the opera house revealed to him? If Roslin is missing and Lee gets sworn in as president, he then becomes the leader. Maybe he is assassinated but before he dies he has the truth revealed to him? Probably not but I thought it might be cool to throw us for a loop and get rid of a whinny character.
May 20th, 2008 at 6:46 am
I don’t think it is. I’ve watched “Razor” multiple times, even watched that scene in slow-mo. It isn’t Callum Keith Rennie. And the “6″ that the previous poster claims to have saw isn’t Tricia Helfer. The woman is actually a little girl. The credits list a character called “Scared Girl in Cage”. Now, during the scene, we see a woman in a cage but no girl. And when Adama goes to leave, you hear a little girl screaming for Adama not to go/leave them.
So, no, it’s not the human variety Cylons that Adama encountered.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:54 am
Well, how come Gaius Baltar speaks idiomatic 21st century English with a British accent, except when he’s speaking ‘Aerelon’, and sounds like a chain-smoking Yorkshire lad with a head cold?
I’d like to think everyone (let alone a room of professional storytellers) has some familiarity with Shakespeare’s masterpiece, especially the famous ‘To be, or not to be’ soliloquy, or at least saw Star Trek VI…
BTW, back in The Captain’s Hand, anyone remember Roslin telling Sarah Porter something along the lines of “You’ve got your pound of flesh, now take it and get the hell out of my office”? Some deep subtext at play here. Well, here’s RDM’s comment from the podcast (hat-tip to Battlestar Wiki for the transcript):
In the end, Baltar ‘quoting’ from Hamlet over the wireless just worked, and doesn’t necessarily take on the status of another ‘All Along The Watchtower’ moment because 1) James isn’t reciting the whole fraking solliloquy, 2) it is just so appropriate for the themes running through the episode, and 3) let’s be blunt, if you’re going to steal, steal from the best (and someone who was one hell of a literary magpie himself.)
OK (and I despise myself for using the C-word here) since the scenes and the whole subplot was dumped it’s not cannon. Anyway, I just don’t see any other evidence that any of the Cylon think of Hera that way — she’s a hybrid, the first of the “new generation of God’s children” (or, if you’re Cavil, I guess, another expression of broken machines pretending they’re human rather than embracing their nature). Hera — and presumably Nicky — is no more another model, than the Hybrids, Raiders and Centurions are.
I don’t mean this as a personal slam, Matt, but am I the only person who’s really sick of seeing Lee described as a “whinny” character? I know some people really hate his character arc in TSAR/Crossroads and over this season, but I don’t think someone who can stand up to both the Old Man and Laura Roslin in full ‘go frak yourself, you pissant little worm’ glare mode can be easily dismissed as a whiny little Emo-boy.
May 20th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
I just watched the episode, I know, I know, bad Sorsha. Pesky RL.
I think this episode shows what an amazing voice Gaeta has. And just as Laura said, what it took to hear it. Though, it was a bit odd to keep coming back to him. And what doctor in their right mind would perform that surgery without knocking him out? What do they have super morphine?
But for me, what this episode really showed was a connection to the Opera House, and crossing over. The fact that the rebels are know willing to give up resurrection, that they will live, and then just die, making that choice for all the Cylons has shown Kara’s Destiny. She is the Harbringer of Death, for the Cylons. They will all now just have a final Death. Now what does this have to do with the Opera House? Clearly the stepping into the Light, to me, is a gateway, event horizon whatever you want to call it to the world of Earth. I know, I said that last week, but to me, it just seems to be going more and more that way. Hera will lead the way, with her even saying goodbye to her mom.
I did like the fact that Lee seemed to have a backbone this week. Instead of just going with the Quorum, he instead went to Laura, like he has in the past, and given her advice. Perhaps he is getting back on her good side. Though I really wish that he would just pick and side and stay there. She either likes him or not.
And who in their right mind would allow the leader of the last of Humanity to go on a raptor with Baltar to a BASESTAR?!?!?! I don’t care if you’ve signed a treaty in blood, but if you are talking about double crossing the cylons, you have to think that the cylons are considering double crossing you. Hello.. Logic anyone?
Even with some odd twists that do not make 100 percent sense, I thought it was a great episode.
May 20th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
I just heard something interesting. My friend is a big Bear McCreary fan and checks his blog regularly. Apparently Bear let some things slip in pointing out that the music in this season is hugely important in this show and that there are hints of things to come in the music itself. He also stated that Gaeta’s singing would definitely be on the season four soundtrack. He almost seemed to emphisize the importance of Gaeta’s song. Even more points towards Gaeta’s likelihood of being the fifth? I’m going to have to look more into the lyrics…
May 20th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
@ CB2001
I rewatched the scene frame at a time ad I still concur that is Leoben. Now that I rewatch it I am still convinvced that it is Tricia Helfer’s eyes we see also. It’s not a little girl rather a woman on her knees looking out…can anyone else look at this and give me some positive i.d. or am I seeing things?
May 20th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
Heh. Did anyone else feel like they were watching The Omen when Athena was going through Hera’s drawings? I’m waiting for the 666 birthmark on Hera’s scalp.
May 20th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
Craig Ranapia- Just because the subplot was cut doesn’t mean it wasn’t included. What else do you think that Baltar meant when he said, “I did all that I could?” when all he did nothing within the episode? What I consider cannon is what is filmed, not just what’s shown. The word “cannon” should even apply to this. Why? Because if it’s about what’s shown, then we’ve got more conflicting details. For example, “Unfinished Business”. Do you consider the shown on Sci-Fi version cannon or do you consider the Ron Moore released on DVD version cannon? Both have been shown, and by your statement “if it’s shown, it’s cannon”, then both are considered that, and as a result, both versions conflict with each other. The same with the episode of “Pegasus”. Is the Sci-Fi Channel shown episode cannon or is the Extended 2.5 Boxset version considered cannon? For “Razor”, is the version shown on TV cannon or is Extended Unrated DVD version cannon? Because if you’re going with what was shown on Sci-Fi, then that means that the Unrated DVD version shouldn’t even be considered cannon, which means we shouldn’t even talk about Helena Caine’s little sister or even count the Hybrid’s statements as true prophecy because neither scene were shown in the Broadcast version, and therefore are NOT cannon because they weren’t shown on the Sci-Fi.
So, the statement of “cannon is what is shown” can be airlocked. If it was filmed, it counts as cannon. It doesn’t matter if it cut because of run time or didn’t fit within context of the story or in order to meet a rating. If it was filmed, it counts. Besides, “cannon” is what each person makes of it. If an author has a 100 page novel, and his publisher will only allow 80 pages to be published, if he cuts out scenes to short the story up, and still consideres the 100 page novel as the “cannon” and the readers read the 80 page version, then the readers would consider that “cannon”. So, “cannon” shouldn’t be a word within the BSG dictionary when it comes to the show and what is cut.
Of course, that’s just my opinion.
May 20th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
“Besides, “cannon” is what each person makes of it.”
there’s this guy I work with who i’d like to shoot out of a cannon into a hornet’s nest. does that count?
May 20th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
gaseous- I used the very version of the word “cannon” that Craig did so that he knew what I was talking about. If people say “much a-do ’bout nothin’”, when it’s “Much Ado About Nothing”, then I quote them exactly (which is why I use “cannon” in quotations). Yes, I knew it was canon, but if I pointed out it was spelt with only one N in the middle, I was afraid he would think I was insulting him and then cause a verbal attack. And the last thing I want to do is to insult someone, and if I come off at all insulting in my previous post, Craig, I assure you it was not my intention.
Adam- Did it frame by frame again. The nose, the eyes and teeth of the male actor in the scene from “Razor” doesn’t match the actor who plays Leoban. And the face of the girl/woman who is seen through the door does not match Tricia Helfer’s (Helfer facial structure is thin and noticable cheekbones while the actress seen in the scene from “Razor” has more of a round face and no noticable cheekbones). Plus the girl/woman looks like she may be in her mid-teens.
May 20th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
Happy Birthday Tahmoh Penikett!
May 20th, 2008 at 11:52 pm
Here is a Theory for you…(my background is my original theory still to be disproved until 2009 …ie Cylon home world earth and created into flesh by the Lormirians and Atlanteans…)(Only because I think a series based on the missing 40 of Cylon History taking place during the times of Lormia and Atlantis would be off the hook cool.)
the Final Five Cylon and the Lords of Kobol are one in the same, going by the litany of BSG, “All of this has happened before and all of this will happen again.” it’s really hard not to accept this white elephant doing Advance Yoga in the middle of a room….
The Final Five want the significant seven to have cylon-human offspring in order to create a new kind of being that can live beyond the limitations of the 7 Cylon….ie…one that can travel between the spaces of life and death.
I also believe ultimately Baltar, and Head Six and Hera will be leaving the “Opera House” for dimensions unknown. The Opera House is a metaphor for the story being played out. (Ref. William Shakespeare’s comment, The world is a stage.)
(Digression…in the Razorette…The Actor that Plays Leoben is credited…the little girl with him is the same little girl that plays Kara in flash backs…)
———————————————————————————————————————————————————-
Plus+++ In “Resistance” back in season 2 we got to see the scene where Boomer under major emotional stress blurt out to Baltar that there are 8 Cylons in the fleet… So who were they ?
Boomer
Deanna
Tyrol
Tori
Tigh
Cavil
Final Five?
Another Cylon of the significant seven in hidding possibly another Deanna…
ahem this rules out Kara as a Cylon if Boomer was actually blurting out a subconscious knowing truth…ahem…
May 21st, 2008 at 12:22 am
Title… Gaeta better not be the final Cylon….
(because he’s a sniveling annoying character)
RE the Last Supper photo.
What if the Final Cylon is someone that has been killed and the missing person at the last supper table ahem where the holy grail is resting is Ellen Tigh?
Think about it.
A/ The Final Cylon is in darkness hungering for redemption. (Perhaps she downloaded to Earth…(because the Cylons of a final 5 variety are on a T absolute Value of 1 super duper fiber optic FTL wireless 10000000 cubed/10000000000000000 cubed mbps line that’s also the cel phone company that takes care of Mulder and Scully’s cel phones…ahhhhh my original theory even more confirmed….
B/ Who else would Tigh be looking at so attentively with his single eye ?
C/ Why else would Tigh be seeing her when he looks into the face of Number 6? Perhaps she’s trying to contact him and well when she pings for the nearest Cylon she can access through it happens to be 6….because everybody knows 6’s IP address lol lol lol…
D/ Plus Kate Vernon on IMDB has nothing going on in 2009? usually a sign that she’s got something going so will not be accepting any other new projects until her under wraps project has come to light…
similar to Sackoff’s IMDB profile after her apparent departure from the show…
May 21st, 2008 at 12:25 am
CB2001
I thought I would give my view on the what should be considered “canon” debate.
1) Extended versions and DVD versions vs original TV version:
I would say that while both versions are canon and IIRC there tend not to be any major contradictions between these versions leading to repurcusions in later episodes, rather that the extended and DVD versions give extra information. I would say that if there are any contradictions the extended and DVD versions, these should be taken as canon over the TV version as these are put together later unless a later aired episode indicates otherwise
2) Should deleted scenes be considered canon
This is a more difficult question as sometimes the producers/writers may want to include information given in a deleted scene in a later episode and othertimes they may want to contradict something in the scenes. This reminds me of an episode of Farscape in which the previously on Farscape part of the episode was made up almost entirely from clips of scenes that had to be cut from an earlier episode for time!!!.
Anyway back to the point at hand should all deleted scenes be considered canon, I would say not to the same degree as what is shown in an episode, and your “whatever is filmed in canon” also raises the question what about alternate versions of scenes that contradict what happened in the episode, or deleted scenes from different episodes contradicting one another. I would therefore class deleted scenes as secondary canon in that these events may have happened but this may be proven otherwise in a later episode
3) Contradictions between episodes
For this I would say that unless an earlier episode showed the actual event and the later episode is a person going over the events that the later episode information should be considered canon
May 21st, 2008 at 4:32 am
another nugget of info about Alessandro Juliani lifted from imdb: “Graduated from McGill University with a B.M. in vocal/opera performance”. That would explain his singing skills.
May 21st, 2008 at 5:09 am
@ gaseous clay:
indeed they did already talk about Kara’s father. Starbuck and Helo in Kara’s old appartment on Caprica. He’s a piano player and (I think) a composer.
AND M. Ausiello of TV Guide recently asked Katee about a Man who plays piano and Kara is drawn to him…
That (in my eyes) can only be Kara’s Father. I’m sure we will meet her father in season 4.
And yes, I think he ist the final cylon. Let’s wait and see.
@ bishomti: K. Sackoff signed a contract for a recurring role of NIP/TUCK season 6 ( 4 Episodes ).
bye
May 21st, 2008 at 5:21 am
I am not sure if this is the Theory Chat site, and after trying to figure it out and going around in circles here I am, this is either the right place or it is not.
Tom Z is the 5th Cylon.
Roslin is the leader
Hybrid: At last, they’ve come for me. I feel their lives, their destinies spilling out before me. The denial of the one true path, played out on a world not their own, will end soon enough. Soon there will be four, glorious in awakening, struggling with the knowledge of their true selves, the pain of revelation bringing new clarity, and in the midst of confusion, he will find her. Enemies brought together by impossible longing, enemies now joined as one. The way forward at once unthinkable, yet inevitable. And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering. I can see them all. The seven, now six, self-described machines who believe themselves without sin, but in time, it is sin that will consume them. They will know enmity, bitterness, the wrenching agony of the one splintering into the many, and then they will join the promised land, gathered on the wings of an angel. Not an end, but a beginning.
I’m only going to deal with what we don’t know
Hybrid: At last, they’ve come for me.
I feel their lives, their destinies spilling out before me. The denial of the one true path, played out on a world not their own, will end soon enough. [true path is human & cylon working together, demonstrated when the reasch earth which is not their own world. ]
Soon there will be four, glorious in awakening, struggling with the knowledge of their true selves, the pain of revelation bringing new clarity, [this we get]
and in the midst of confusion, he will find her. Enemies brought together by impossible longing, enemies now joined as one. The way forward at once unthinkable, yet inevitable.[already played out with Tigh & Caprica 6]
And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering. Tom, and this is why it works, think back to Colonial Day, and what Seku Hamilton said to him. Tom, was in Cylon lock up on New Caprica. Tom suffered on the Astrial Queen, where he sought redemption and when his boy died on Kobol before they got to the temple of Athena, remember Tom did not go in because he was not worthy at that time. Tom always works behind the scene, The Circle, trying to get Baltar in office, killing Valance. And Richard Hatch was the original Apollo always doing the right thing, and Tom Zarek always doing the thing that get him the furthest, making Richard’s character a cylon fits perfectly in to the cycle of time. Remember Tom was the only major character except Starbuck who was not on Galactica at the time of the awakening.
I can see them all. The seven, now six, self-described machines who believe themselves without sin, but in time, it is sin that will consume them. They will know enmity, bitterness, the wrenching agony of the one splintering into the many,
and then they will join the promised land, gathered on the wings of an angel. The Battlestar Galactica is the angel
Not an end, but a beginning.
I am troubled the way that Starbuck came back. her ship being brand new is odd. Still working on that.
May 21st, 2008 at 6:07 am
Nikcara. I like your interpretation. I don’t believe Battlestar Galactica is the angel. Starbuck is…
May 21st, 2008 at 6:59 am
Charles- For alternate scenes, I get that point. But for deleted scenes, which means that they are not alternate versions of scenes already present within the film but bits taken out of a film or TV show, only extend a filmed work. Why do you think that for “Pegasus” and “Razor” have “extended cuts”? Simple: Because they had material that was filmed and then cut and then put back in. When it comes to an alternate version of an episode, they actually include the word “version” in there, which means, it’s alternate than the original cut.
May 21st, 2008 at 9:02 am
CB2001
I understand your point though I disagree to the extent which you take it simply because if we are looking at “stand alone” deleted scenes in addition to being taken out of an episode for time they can also be taken out for other editorial reasons and in the worse case for your argument because the producers of the show decide that the events depicted do not occur because they contradict what they subsequently wrote and filmed and the scene can be cut with no loss to the integrity of the episode in question.
This is why I consider deleted scenes unless subsequently referred to or shown in an episode to be secondary canon (may have happened) opposed to primary canon which are released complete episodes and for episodes with multiple versions e.g. Razor, unfinished business, Pegasus etc I go with the view that the extended version is the official version unless otherwise indicated which in the case of Unfinished business according to the Wiki RDM has indicated that the extended version is a rough cut and so the original version is the canon. Anyway I think we should just agree to disagree on this one and leave it at that
May 21st, 2008 at 10:47 am
I really do agree with harbinger of dath for the cylons bit now.
I liked that even in the future you can still loose a leg to infection.
I really loved the entire ep!
I also wonder if Tigh was getting some kinda signal that told him not to fire.
Best “Jump” Ever!
May 21st, 2008 at 12:04 pm
To help with wait And it’s also kinda cool, http://www.g4tv.com/thepile/videos/21769/BSG_Live_Roslin__Adama_Music_Video.html
There is two vids on the G4 site that are the people who score BSG doing live music from the show.
Other vid http://www.g4tv.com/thepile/videos/21766/BSG_Live_Fight_Night_Music_Video.html?videoCategory_key=8
May 21st, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Just so u know ppl if u do want 2 see the next ep early u can alway fly over here Ireland or the UK, as we get 2 see the new ep b4 u nice ppl in the States 4 a change. Be on Tue the 27th on Sky
Hugs & Kisses!!
May 21st, 2008 at 1:31 pm
Was any1 else creped out when you see Hera standing over Athena after her vision & Hera just goes “Bye bye” chills down my spine!!! :O
May 21st, 2008 at 1:51 pm
So the UK gets the next episode this week? If so, it will be no trouble acquiring it.
May 21st, 2008 at 3:04 pm
I need my cast fix.
The UK episodes were airing the Tuesdays after the US airings. So we’ll see the rest of the episodes leaking a few days before the US airing starting next Tuesday.
May 21st, 2008 at 3:30 pm
Top Ten Reasons to Watch Battlestar Galactica — I missed this from the David Letterman Show. I especially liked Colonel Tigh’s answer…Sirslam
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YatjlSJNRHM
May 21st, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Does anyone frakkin know why this episode is not on BSG’s rewind website?
Would love to see this one again but didn’t TIVO it.
May 21st, 2008 at 4:46 pm
*cough*sidereel.com*cough*
May 21st, 2008 at 5:07 pm
Ok….I have figured it out. The final five are from Cobol. The original humans from Kobol also developed “Cylons” in their past. I believe that Adama is the final Cylon. Look at the painting “God creates Adam”. The hands in the painting are exactly like the hands of the six on the left hand side of the Cylon, “Last Supper” painting and Athena on the right. Oh yeah, doesn’t Adam mean Earth??? hmmmmmmm
May 21st, 2008 at 6:49 pm
Where’s BSGCaaast I’m getting anxious. Matt, Natt where are you?
May 21st, 2008 at 8:44 pm
Does anyone know SkyOne’s schedule? (Ie: when is the next episode airing in the UK.)
May 21st, 2008 at 11:56 pm
“I feel their lives, their destinies spilling out before me. The denial of the one true path, played out on a world not their own, will end soon enough. [true path is human & cylon working together, demonstrated when the reasch earth which is not their own world. ]”
I agree the one true path is human and cylon working together, but I thought the “denial” of that is what was played out on a world not their own. The world not their own was New Caprica, because while they were there, they were off the “one true path” which is the path to earth.
May 22nd, 2008 at 5:19 am
Hi Matt and Nat. Love you.
Where’s this week’s broadcast. It’s usually up by the following Thursday aleast.
We miss you.
May 22nd, 2008 at 6:24 am
I AGREE. WHERE IS MY BROADCAST. NAT AND MATT, GET TO IT!
May 22nd, 2008 at 6:41 am
For the people complaining about the lack of a BSGCAST so far. There was a post by Nat (as BSGCAST) stating that the cast had been filmed but that they were both going to washington for a few days on business. I assume this is why it hasnt been posted yet
May 22nd, 2008 at 7:26 am
The broadcast can be found at blip.tv.
May 22nd, 2008 at 9:11 am
Thanks for the link Strider
May 22nd, 2008 at 9:13 am
Thanks for the Heads Up Strider.
Charles I missed the post by Nat about Washington. I’ll try not to be so impatient next time.
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:14 am
Thanx strider. Finally I get my BSG cast
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:20 am
direct linky: http://bsgcast.blip.tv/#933408
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:45 am
One point about Athena that I have not seen discussed anywhere:. We forget that in very important ways Athena is a child both at the emotional and moral levels. She lacks the socialization and moral education that most humans undergo over years and years of living in families and societies; she therefore lacks the emotional maturity that we take for granted in adults and therefore lacks the ability to make sophisticated moral decisions. All she knows really are the three fundamental choices that she made: (1) to be the mother of Hera; (2) to be the wife of Helo; and (3) to support the cause of the humans.
In her vision she sees that Six represents a serious threat to her most important value, namely, Hera. And so she acts to protect Hera. She acts instinctively, immediately, uncritically, thoughtlessly, as any mother would.
I wonder if Adama will be able to understand.
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:17 am
Not at all, CB2001 — AFAIC, your post was a strongly expressed, but civil and on-topic response to a point I raised in a previous post. (And yes, pepl, my spulling n poof-riding rilly sux.
I meant ‘canon’ not ‘cannon. Rilly!) No comment I make here is the word of the Gods.
You’ve also asked a totally fair question here:
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:18 am
Not at all, CB2001 — AFAIC, your post was a strongly expressed, but civil and on-topic response to a point I raised in a previous post. (And yes, pepl, my spulling n poof-riding rilly sux.
I meant ‘canon’ not ‘cannon. Rilly!) No comment I make here is the word of the Gods.
You’ve also asked a totally fair question here:
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:46 am
BSGCast- I can’t believe I got Fan of the Week for noticing Billy not being on the shore. I’m just blown away by that. Thanks for the nomination. Wow…
Craig- That’s good. I’m glad I didn’t offend you. It’s just that I’ve had quite a lot of discussions about canon what is canon (mainly due to the machinima comic book fan fiction series I’ve been working on. One of the details at the time of one discussion, I had considered on having one of the characters being the nephew of Laura Roslin, Laura also had been his surrogate because her sister had complications during the birth of her first child. A lot of people I’ve talked with didn’t like the idea of it because they believed it was “out of character” for Roslin to do that, especially for her sister. I counter pointed that discussion by saying if back during Season 1 I had told people Roslin was sleeping with President Adar, they would have also said the same thing, that it would be “out of character” of Roslin to do so). So, my opinion about canon greatly differs from most, because it is something that differs by each people (like the concept of what “weird” is, to which I say that there’s no such thing as “normal” because the concept of it differs from one person to the next).
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Something I noticed when re-watching Eye of Jupiter, when D’Anna and Baltar are listening to the Hybrid, and she talks about the final five. She says the “The five lights of the apocalypse rising struggling towards the light”
Later on, a hybrid says that “Kara Thrace will lead the human race to its end. She is the herald of the apocalypse”
Then in Faith, the hybrid says “The missing Three will give you the Five who come from the home of the Thirteenth.”
I just realized that they have been hinting Earth’s state. It makes so much sense if Earth ends up being some sort of wastelands (which I fear but believe it will be).
We understand harbinger of death, but herald of the apocalypse could be something completely different. The final five of the thirteenth tribe. The final five of Earth. The final five of the apocalypse.
APOCALYPSE = EARTH
May 22nd, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Sparky said:
1. Apollo:
Lee Adama is a character who has had to change roles alot over the course of the show. Simply put, he’s been a
Fighter Pilot,
Military investigator(Black Market, The Captain’s Hand),
Lawyer(Crossroads I & II),
and an apologist for a controvertial new religion (Escape Velocity)
Sadly, it has come to my attention that his character is nothing more than Tom Cruise’s career. Don’t believe me? Remember that on night stand on New Caprica? (”I… LOVE… KARA… THRACE!!!”)
HAHAHAHAHAHA (Top Gun, that movie with Jack Nicholson, Scientology) HAHAHAHHAHA
Tootie
May 22nd, 2008 at 4:29 pm
Yay bsgcast to help ease the wait for the next episode. Thanks for answering my question about Starbuck being on the basestar. I already came to the same conclusion. At least Helo is there. It will be interesting to see what kind of role he plays on this trip to the hub. I’m thinking he’ll play the role of body guard to the President and maybe learn something about Hera and the opera house.
Mat I agree the Basestar looked amazing this episode. The funky lighting when Tigh entered the bridge was so trippy. The hanger scenes were the best. This is probably the Star Wars nerd in me, but the hanger on the Basestar reminded me of the hanger from ANH before the rebels go off to blow up the Deathstar.
May 22nd, 2008 at 4:36 pm
Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Check out the Canadian promo for the next episode……
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-RNkt2JOyQ&eurl=http://galacticasitrep.blogspot.com/
Tigh is still seeing Caprica as Ellen. This might fuel the theory of Six becoming preggers. I hope this isn’t the case.
May 22nd, 2008 at 5:35 pm
all this talk of starbuck bringing back a baseship and the earlier references to her bringing a cylon raider aboard Galactica had me thinking, where did she get the paint to write “starbuck” on the cylon raider? or, did she somehow find cylon raider goo inside the cockpit to use as paint?
May 22nd, 2008 at 5:58 pm
That’s good. I’m glad I didn’t offend you.
At the risk of patting myself on the back (or stroking another part of my anatomy I won’t mention on a family blog
— perhaps I need one of those phallic inhibitors Matt keeps talking about ), the really cool thing about BSG fandom is that it’s full of very smart, very opinionated people who’ve always got another perspective on things. And often really great insights that just deepen my appreciation of a great show — especially when I totally disagree and have to be clear about my own thinking.
Sure, there’s always the flamers, trolls and drama queens you get in any fandom but why focus on the negative?
In the end, I’m just amazed that there aren’t more continuity flubs. I really love heavily serialised shows, but it must be a real horrorshow trying to keep everything consistent when you’re making (in effect) a fifteen hour movie cut into 45 minute chunks on a relentless conveyor belt, and where pulling something here potentially means you’ve got to make changes to episodes on either side. And that’s before you even start on the billion and one practicalities you’ve got to deal with on the production side. I’m working on a novel, and that’s tough enough — and I’ve only got to deal with one professional frak-up.
I also get the impression that RDM isn’t running the writer’s room like Babylon Five where he comes to the table with very detailed plans for the season ahead, but is more fluid in his approach. Which, again, is thrilling but must be hell on the nerves.
Mat I agree the Basestar looked amazing this episode. The funky lighting when Tigh entered the bridge was so trippy.
True enough, but Michael Hogan was the trippiest thing in that scene. Hell, I never thought I’d ever use ‘Saul Tigh’ and ‘fun’ in the same sentence without industrial strength sarcasm tags, but it’s really delightful watching him freak out. (It’s like he’s channelling season one Baltar.) And Eddie Olmos gets the Gold Star (again) for the ‘you better be drunk’ glare of doom when Tigh called the weapons hold.
I had told people Roslin was sleeping with President Adar, they would have also said the same thing, that it would be “out of character” of Roslin to do so).
Fair point, and with the scene I mentioned, someone did point out to me that his interview in Final Cut revealed a very different Felix from the one we’d seen so far — smoking, hung-over and showing off his tatoo. An interest in porn would be that much of a stretch? Which is pretty hard to disagree with. To come over all Tim Gunn/Project Runway for a moment, all you’ve got to do is make it work.
May 22nd, 2008 at 7:54 pm
Craig- That’s cool. And I agree, Gaeta asking about porn is definately in character, it would have just added to what we knew about his personality.
But when it comes to going with continuity, especially in a fan work, it’s a challenge to stay with the source material and yet be able to work in something of your own (though my machinima comic book fan fiction series will stick to some of the conventions of the show, I have considered on incorporating my theory about the Beings of Light being involved with the human race and the events of the show, but actually expand it further than just with the events of the show. Of course, it also depends if the show finally reveals the Beings of Light’s involvement or if they don’t). I won’t continue to bore you guys with my pet project, but I can say that working on it and looking at the source material (both the old and new series) have sort of made me question the term of what is “canon”, what is “in” and “out of character” and has allowed me to seek inspiration for the smallest details not many noticed within the show (some which I’ve posted here at BSGCast before).
May 22nd, 2008 at 9:56 pm
Note: Minor Spoilers for Sine Qua Non from Canadian preview mentioned in last paragraph of post
There are more previews of the next episode available on you tube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-RNkt2JOyQ (Canadian preview) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dXWrPUWfzI (Sci Fi scene Adama and Athena talk)
The first preview (canadian) is especially intriguing as it shows more of the Tigh Adama confrontation scene and it is possible given what is shown that rather than the confrontation being about Tigh and Caprica 6, Adama somehow finds out that Tigh is a cylon as he is questioning Tighs loyalty, though it is still probably about Tigh and Six IMO (I wish there was an option to hide possible spoilers) the context though does make me even surer that Caprica 6 is NOT pregnant by Tigh
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:44 pm
Might have been said, might be obvious but here it goes any ways.
I’m wondering about the title, cause it clearly was based on the “Guess Who’s Coming to dinner” movie with Sidney Poitier, And that movie was about a white girl taking her boyfriend home to her parent’s and her parents being shocked by the fact he was black.
Now the movie dealt with everyone getting use to the thought of having a member of the family that was not white and getting over their bigit natures..
Cylons Joining the fleet, everyone does not trust them, they will have to learn to except each other Or die.
I feel so dumb that it took me that long to get that…I’m a moron!
Great Ep Nat & MAtt!
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:21 pm
There are a couple of previews for the next episode available on youtube, one is the sci-fi 1:30 preview showing part of a conversation between Athena and Adama and the other is the Canadian 30 second episode preview which gives more of the Tigh/Adama confrontation. Search for BSG Sine Qua Non on Youtube and they should be the first two vids (at the time I posted this)
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:36 am
You guys mentioned how it is odd that there is no sign of the Final Five in the opera house dreams, but I don’t think that that’s exactly true. Look at this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbb7Usnh_QM
May 23rd, 2008 at 1:41 am
Chealsea, I am pretty sure what they were saying was that they were not involved in the vision of the dream. The Final Five appear in the dream but only as cloaked entities standing seemingly detached from the events. It is interesting since all we have seen is what appears to be Six (what many have suggested is Caprica Six, but could actually be Head Six) saving Hera from something. It could be the Final Five or it could be Athena and Roslin.
What is interesting, and we could conclude that this was done on purpose, is that Baltar looks different in the dream than he does now. That makes me think that the dream Six and Baltar are the head characters and not the physical versions. So, could that mean that the head entities are not going to physically take Hera but are appearing to her as guides for whatever is her purpose?
Now, here is my little theory, if these are the head characters:
Caprica Six, Athena, and Roslin are all sharing this vision because all of them have protected Hera from harm through either direct action or through their wielded power (as with Roslin). So, they are all protectors of Hera. The head characters seem to be guides, or protectors of some kind for Baltar and Caprica Six. They may also be protectors of Hera and so they appear in the dream. I have no clue how this works out, or if my theory is only partially right, but I do think the idea of Caprica Six, Athena, and Roslin sharing the vision due to being protectors of Hera could hold some water.
Of course, this theory has a problem… in the introduction of the hybrid into the dream in last week’s episode. That could mean that Hera is to become the next hybrid or it could mean that the hybrid has protected Hera from harm as well; perhaps preventing the cylons from destroying Galactica and/or preventing the cylons from ever completely destroying humanity.
May 23rd, 2008 at 2:04 am
@ gaseous clay:
Re: yellow paint on raider. I think she used that yellow tape to put “starbuck” underneath the raider’s wings.
The same tape which she put around her injured knee.
When I saw it I had my doubts how big that tape roll must have been to make such big letters out of it.
Yes I thin it was the yellow tape.
May 23rd, 2008 at 4:07 am
Sorry to bother you again
but I just re-watched this episode and I wonder if Athena can “feel” Tyrol as a cylon.
In the end of the episode where Athena is looking for Hera she asks Tyrol if he knows whaere she is.
He says nothing but follows her.
When Athena approaches Natalie and Hera she can’t actually see or hear Tyrol wo quietly followed her.
But she asks him to take Hera away.
Does this mean that she realizes that Tyrol is near without seeing him.
Can she “feel” that he’s near. Can she finally “feel” the other cylons now?
Or am I just paranoid?
There’s too much confusion…..
bye
May 23rd, 2008 at 4:20 am
regarding the final five, there was the episode from season 2 I believe where Boomer shot Adama and was thrown in the brig. I think at the same time Tyrol was accused of being a cylon collaborator and put in the brig with her. anyway, Baltar goes to Boomer’s cell and then injects Tyrol with a syringe to coerce a confession from Boomer. Baltar forces Boomer to tell him how many cylons were in the fleet – she responded by saying there were 8 rather than 7. why is that? did she purposely give him a misleading number or was she simply saying there were 8 cylon models left that haven’t been discovered?
also, season 1 of BSG starts with Caprica 6 telling Baltar that there are 12 cylon models. If the 7 known cylon models are forbidden to talk about the F5 then why were they even programmed with their knowledge? wouldn’t it make sense to program them not to know about the F5 rather than potentially reveal who they are?
May 23rd, 2008 at 4:52 am
OK….. AS FAR AS THE WHOLE DISCUSSION OF WHO IS AND ISN’T INVOLVED IN THE OPERA HOUSE VISION/DREAM THING GOES, HERE’S WHAT WE KNOW……
REMEMBER IN SEASON 2 THAT’S WHEN “HEAD 6″ NOT “CAPRICA 6″ WAS SHOWING BALTAR THE OPERA HOUSE, AND TALKING ABOUT “THEIR” CHILD, WHICH WAS OF COURSE HELO, AND SHARON’S CHILD, AND HER BEING THE “SHAPE OF THINGS TO COME”.
OK…. SO …… THE VISIONS ROSLYN, SHARON, AND CAPRICA 6 (AND MAYBE HERA?) ARE HAVING SHOW BALTAR, AND “HEAD SIX” AS THEY WERE AT THAT POINT IN TIME. SO BALTAR ISN’T IN THEIR VISION, OR SHARING THEIR VISIONS, NEITHER IS “HEAD 6 ” (WHICH EXPLAINS WHY WHEN SHE SHARES THE VISION SHE SEEMS SUPRISED) THEY ARE ALL SIMPLY SHARING IN A VISION OF WHAT “HEAD 6″ SHOWED BALTAR.
WHICH EXPLAINS WHY BALTAR KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT THE VISIONS (IE HE’S TELLING THE TRUTH) EVEN THOUGH HE’S IN THEM, ALL “HEAD 6″ EVER TOLD HIM WAS THAT ROSLYN, SHARON, AND CAPRICA 6 WERE SHARING VISIONS/DREAMS. SHE NEVER TOLD THEM WHAT THOSE VISIONS WERE. IS SHE HAD HE PROBABLY WOULDN’T HAVE ADVERTISED TO EVERYONE THAT PEOPLE WERE HAVING VISIONS THAT CLEARLY SHOW HIM TAKING A CHILD WITH THE HELP OF A CYLON.
SO BASICALLY WE HAVE 3 PEOPLE HAVING VISIONS OF OF SOMEONE ELSES VISION. OR AT LEAST WHAT THAT ORIGINAL VISION WAS SUPPOSED TO MEAN.
SO NO…… BALTAR DID NOT SHARE THE VISION (THAT’S WHY HE LOOKS LIKE HE DID IN SEASON 2, JUST LIKE DarthRazorback SAID) AND IT’S NOT “CAPRICA 6″, IT’S “HEAD 6″ WHO WAS IN THE OPERA HOUSE WITH BALTAR (AND WE STILL DON’T EVEN KNOW FOR SURE WHO, OR WHAT SHE IS) BUT THE M,ORE IMPORTANT QUESTION IS ……………
SINCE WE KNOW THAT WHEN THE OPERA HOUSE IS FIRST SHOWN IT’S TO BALTAR IN RELATION TO BALTAR, AND “HEAD 6′S” CHILD, WHICH IS OF COURSE HERA. SO WHAT DOES THE OPERA HOUSE HAVE TO DO WITH HERA? THAT’S THE QUESTION. THAT WHAT’S IT ALL ABOUT. THAT’S THE “TRUTH ABOUT THAT OPERA HOUSE” NO MATTER WHO THE DYING LEADER IS. IT’S ALL ABOUT HERA AS FAR AS THE OPERA HOUSE IS CONCERNED. ALTHOUGH THERE MAY BE SOME CONNECTION TO THE FINAL 5, IN THAT THEY ARE SEEN THERE TOO, BUT THAT COULD MEAN THAT WHATEVER HAPPENS WITH HERA, THEY HAVE AN INTREST IN.
SO TO SUM UP…..
“HEAD 6″ IN VISION NOT “CAPRICA 6″
BALTAR DID NOT SHARE IN VISION (AT LEAST NOT THE ONE WITH ROSLYN, SHARON, AND CAP 6)
AND “TRUTH ABOUT OPERA HOUSE” HAS TO DO WITH HERA.
AND EVEN THOUGH THE FINAL FIVE
AND THE TRUTH ABOUT THE OPERA HOUSE
May 23rd, 2008 at 7:30 am
I didn’t know how I could post it here so I just sent a frakkin’ funny pic I conjured up to Matt and Nat…hopefully they’ll post it to give everyone a good laugh!
May 23rd, 2008 at 8:00 am
Speculation
When I watched the episode for the second time it was mainly to see if Starbuck was with Laura R. and Baltar. However, I’d forgotten about Helo. Now this is just me thinking out loud, but Athena could remember Boomer’s relationship with Chief, correct? So, wouldn’t the Sharons on the Basestar remember the relationship with Helo? I mean, Helo would be like a Rock star with them. Would the Sharons (and we know there are quite an few on the ship that greeted Athena) be willing to do just about anything Helo asks, his own little army (or harem) so to speak?
Then I started to think about what the Hybrid had said ‘The One splintered into many’. What if, Gods forbid, something were to happen to Athena during the attack on the hub, her consciousness downloaded into the system but had no body to go to but, everytime a Sharon went into the system (put her hands in the goo to perform a task) it downloaded proportions of her consciousness into the first Sharon that accessed it, and continued where it left off with the second and so on.
I’m probally way way off base and missed something along the way that would cancel my theory. But wouldn’t it be cool??
May 23rd, 2008 at 8:56 am
It should be said that the character that played Billy FRAKKING HATES science fiction. I don’t think he’d come back for an episode even if they begged him. He hated being a sci fi actor, so he made them kill him off. Ron Moore actually says that’s one of this least favorite BSG episodes. He said it just doesn’t work.
May 23rd, 2008 at 9:23 am
I’m still reeling back from getting fan of the week. I forgot, what am I suppose to do since I won the shirt? Do I e-mail Matt and Nat with my home address or something? Or am I suppose to post my e-mail address here and wait for them to contact me? I’m that scatterbrained about the whole thing.
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:53 pm
Care to source that — because you may be right and I’m wrong, but as far as I can tell Paul Campbell has never dissed the show, and his departure was entirely amicable and mutual. Don’t believe me? Well, here’s what RDM himself said in the podcast to ‘Sacrifice’ (hat-tip Battlestar Wiki):
BTW, if Paul Campbell hates SF so much why the frak did he sign up for a show called “Battlestar Galactica” — he’s deaf, dumb, blind and not very intelligent?
May 23rd, 2008 at 1:02 pm
Great cast again Matt and Nat
Though I really dont think that Natalie can be the dying leader for just being shot. Remember, Roslin has been dying and leading since the Miniseries.
You cant just throw that away for someone that gets shot and is dying in ONE episode. AT least, in my opinion
We’ll find out soon enough I guess.
May 23rd, 2008 at 4:36 pm
Adalla: The only difference might be that Natalie might have the near death experience that Laura has not had. We will find out in the next episode whether that comes to fruition. If she experiences “near death” would that change your opinion (understanding that Laura has been sort of near death for a long time now)? Also, would Natalie’s potential near death experience make her even more “human” and connect her even more intimately with her “one God”?
I am still convinced that Starbuck is an angel and Tom Z is the fifth Cylon. Weren’t all the decisions about most of the character arcs made during year one? I could see RDM giving a nod to the previous BSG show by giving us that little nugget (jeez, where is Boxey when you need him!)…Sirslam
May 23rd, 2008 at 4:47 pm
I for one am glad they decided to get rid of boxey — talk about a completely and utterly useless character that added nothing to the series.
May 23rd, 2008 at 5:36 pm
could somebody clarify something for me regarding the colonial vipers? in the miniseries we saw colonial viper mark VII’s (and battlestars) being disabled from a device on the cylon raiders that wiped out networked electronic systems. the fleet then switched to the viper mark II’s because of their outdated hardware. but once the galactica came into contact with the pegasus we saw a revival of the mark VII’s, yet the cylon’s stopped using their disrupter device in future episodes. anyone know why?
May 23rd, 2008 at 6:03 pm
Hi Adalla,
Just read your post. I thiink there are TWO “Dying Leader” Prophecies – one about finding Earth, and now one about the Opera House. Natalie could be the “Dying Leader” mentioned in the Opera House.
May 23rd, 2008 at 8:02 pm
gaseous-
I recently started rewatching the series. In the mini they do say that the markIIs are not networked. My assumption is that that they simply removed the networking on the MarkVIIs. Lee is seen flying a MarkVII many times in the. I assume the Pegasus figured out the same trick. Remember that the Pegusas got away because their computer network was down because the ship was being re-fitted.
MAJIK-
Thanks for pointing out the Baltar/HeadSix vision from season 1. I was about to mention that point. I agree the shared vision is Roslin/Athena/Cap6 viewing the earlier vision. As for the final 5, you also need to consider the vision Dianna had of them in the Opera House. My personal view is that the Opera House is the gateway between life and death. The final five are the gatekeepers/Lords of Kobol. I also believe that the final five are related to the head angels. I think they are the head angels in physical form given the task to deliver the humans and cylons into the next realm,remember Laura’s dream in faith. I also believe that Hera is the final cylon reincarnated for the next cycle. So to me what the vision means is that Head six, the representative of the next realm, and Baltar, the messanger and representative of the physical realm, are tasked with delivering Hera to the home of the five to begin the next cycle. So what I think is that Baltar is suppose to help the final four cross everyone over into the next realm and then take care of Hera and maybe even Nikki and those that remain on Earth. The only thing I can’t figure out though is how Kara ties into all this.
May 23rd, 2008 at 9:08 pm
For those wondering about the Vipers in the pilot it was explained the cylons were able to disable so many ships using Baltars command Navigation Program (CNP) (?) which Caprica Six had rewritten. Once Galactica and Pegasus realised this they purged the file from their systems. The reason they do not use networks was demonstrated early in Season 2 (cant remember the episode names) when the Cylons were able to infiltrate Galactica’s adhoc network with relative ease. How the cylons managed to wirelessly infiltrate a wired network is beyond my comprehension though, unless one of the networked computers was attached to a system that allowed wireless access of some form.
As for the Shared Vision, as the vision is probably some form of projection IMO we should not read too much into what people are wearing except to say that the Baltar in the Vision is probably Not Head Baltar since as I mentioned near the start of the thread Head Baltar always wears a dark pinstripe suit which matches the first outfit we see Baltar wear in the pilot and the Baltar in the Vision while wearing a dark suit it is not the same suit. The main question has to be while Baltar is more honest this season was he telling Tory the truth about how he found out about the vision or did he find out from another source (Head Six, Head Baltar, or from seeing them in the vision himself)
May 24th, 2008 at 12:17 am
Honestly I haven’t read all the posts because… seriously there’s over 200. Which is totally awesome but does make it harder to wade through. Anyways. I’ve noticed a lot of theories as to why the hybrid jumped immediatley upon being reconnected. I was watching the end of “Faith” and I noticed that just before Athena unplugged her she made the orgasm face she makes when she jumps, or just before jumping in this case. Initially it looks like the hybrid was about to freak out that she was being unplugged, but it might actually have been that she was about to jump anyways when Athena unplugged her.
May 24th, 2008 at 1:45 am
It looks Sine Que Non will be worth the wait. I just read about what episodes are being submitted for consideration for an Emmy and the next episode has three submissions.
Best Actor:
Edward James Olmos – Sine Qua Non
Best Actress:
Mary McDonnell – Faith
Best Supporting Actor:
Jamie Bamber – Sine Qua Non
Michael Hogan – Sine Qua Non
James Callis – He That Believeth in Me
Best Supporting Actress:
Tricia Helfer – Guess What’s Coming to Dinner
Grace Park – Guess What’s Coming to Dinner
Katee Sackhoff – Six of One
Also if you look at the master list in the link below, you will see that there are a few submissions for guest actress.
Best Guest Actress:
Michelle Forbes – Razor
Stephanie Jacobsen – Razor
Lucy Lawless – Razor
http://tinyurl.com/5uguqd
I’m guessing the last one is not correct. Lawless wasn’t in Razor. I imagine we’ll see her in “The Hub” I have to say from the episodes we’ve seen so far they are spot on. My only question is where the FRAK is Aaron Douglas’ name. IMO next to Mary and Eddy he has given the most compelling performance to date this season. A hell a lot better than Bamber. Hopefully Bamber will shine next week.
It looks like some pretty tough competition. Besides Galactica, I’m pulling for Dexter, Mad Men, and The Wire. At the very least I think Mary will get a nomination.
May 24th, 2008 at 3:37 am
Whoa, TighFighter, it looks like you might be right! Sine Qua Non looks like it’ll be an acting tour de force… at least in the eyes of Ron and David
Well, we JUST beat last week’s 221 comments inside of a week… but we’ve got a whole week left until our next episode, so I hope everyone is enjoying the weekend and coming up with some great theories before Friday!
Happy Memorial Day Weekend to all our American friends, and Happy Indiana Jones Weekend to everyone else
~Matt
May 24th, 2008 at 4:01 am
the Canadian preview for Sine Qua Non looks insane – Tigh putting the smackdown on Adama? Frak yes!
btw, as far as I know BSG will be showing in the UK this Tuesday which means it’ll wind up on the internets Wednesday, so some of you may not have to wait til Friday to watch the new episode.
May 24th, 2008 at 4:10 am
baltar is the dying leader he has to be imagine the look on roslins face it just has to be
May 24th, 2008 at 7:46 am
I’m not sure if this will work but try this link for a cool pic I made…
http://a20.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/96/m_d7441016faed868d2bfbcad1ae85b28b.png
May 24th, 2008 at 10:41 am
This really is the season where they are showcasing the actors. I think every episode has had at least a handful of great performance scenes. Sure, the last couple have been great on every level, but it is all a build-up season anyway. We know we are coming to the end and the actors are clearly going out with their best talent out like a blazing cannon of world destroying death!
As for that list, I doubt I am going out on a limb in saying that Mary will be nominated for “Faith.” Unless the Academy is truly out of its collectively fracked mind, she is a shoe-in for a nomination.
May 24th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Hey, remember when all the Eights approached Athena when she landed on the basestar and said, “Hey, Athena, we think you’re super cool. Will you be our leader?” Well, I know that Athena shooting Natalie was obviously about the opera house visions, don’t need to go over that again, but anyone think it could also be connected to the Eights wanting out of the Sixes’ plan, like they said to Athena? Could the rest of them be influencing Athena to subvert the mission? Just something I thought of when watching next week’s trailer, when Adama accuses her of subverting the mission.
Anyway, I was super bummed last night…
May 24th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
Can someone tellme if the link I put up is working? Is the pic big enough? If not I’ll have tpost it another way…
May 24th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
Matt this is off topic.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY MATT!!!!!!!!!!!!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY MATT!!!!!!!!!!!!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY MATT!!!!!!!!!!!!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY MATT!!!!!!!!!!!!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY MATT!!!!!!!!!!!!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY MATT!!!!!!!!!!!!
May 24th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
Hello everyone. Just a thought here: the phrase “this has occurred and will occur again” keeps echoing through my mind. And I’m beginning to think we maybe over analyzing things. What if Hera is the gateway for both Human and Cylon, that the need to find the final 5 is not significant in the overall scheme of things but a function of “this has occurred and will occur again”. Remember the Centurions and Raiders are no longer inhibited, what if the cycle is Human and Cylons searching for salvation against the “real” machines? That the cycle has always been this way, Humans eventually create AI that eventually leads to Centurion/Raider class Cylons which eventually leads to Human class Cylons which eventually leads to a war…etc. Cavill is key to me and I believe he will eventually be the Overlord from the original series and that the whole story arch will eventually leads us back to the original plot of the original series – Human(Humanoid Cylons) vs Machine Cylons…..just a thought
May 24th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
Hey DarthRazorBack. I just realized you are the same guy, like me, who keeps demanding the podcasts on the sci-fi forum. I hope they fix the faith podcast.
Adam The link is working, but the imade is too small for my 22″ monitor.
I was watching the episode again on Hulu and I noticed something very interesting with the way the opening with Athena counting down was cut. As she is counting down each number cuts to a character in a way that has some sort of relation to the number. Here’s the way the cut goes and my interpretation of the relation to the number.
10- Kare with the Rebels out of focus (?)
9- Gaeta (?)
8- Helo (Helo is married to a model eight)
7- Cylix(sp?) (?)
6- Natalie (The most obvious one, is a model six)
5- Kara who’s eyes move to look at Anders (? Can’t mean she is the final cylon. Can it?)
4- Anders (Representative of the four glorious in awakening)
3- Leoben pans left to the unnamed eight. (I think the space between the two models is where the model 3 would be if she were unboxed. The threes would definitely be part of the Cylon rebels.)
2- Athena (? Maybe that she is the second Galactica Model
Jump- Kara again. (Maybe there is something to the fact that Starbuck is at the beginning, the middle, and the end)
Is this a stylized way of editing or is the director giving us some very subtle clues about the show? I’d like to see if anyone else can come up with anything interesting relating the characters to the numbers.
May 24th, 2008 at 6:23 pm
Guess What’s Coming to Dinner was a kicking great episode. Grace Park was great in the last few minutes when she went for Natalie 6.
However Adama knows that Athena cant be trusted to be on her own. The character had been showing an onward journey over the edge as of late brought on because of dreams of `losing Hera to Caprica 6 in her dreams of the opera house and the Hera knowing what she is as much as Athena tries to forget herself and not accepting it also the cylon model through the series seem to have a symbiosis with eachother (the constant compassion they show eachother) (episode Faith Natalie six and the six that was killed) and without that Athena’s mind is unable to deal with certain situations and level off equally or even a better example Boomer.
Athena shouldn’t feel paranoid with Hera because how many people in the fleet that weren’t Tyrol or Karl think of Hera as a Miracle and or blessing. And because of her action s she just may lose Helo forever. (cause and efffect).
Gaeta was great he had nothing but my sympathy hoping the best for him only imagining he pain and not trusing Cottle for one moment not to cut off his leg while he was sleeping goes to show you that the one;s that look like weaklings are always the strongest.
This was an episode where people got busted Lees busts roslin on talk that she’s sharing visions with cylons while trying to show Baltar’s leading the pepole towards the cylon God . Tory finally got busted for being one of Baltar’s disciples which should have happened week ago so apperantly Lee never reported her . And Baltar acting like his old self when he got into the raptor with Roslin then gets all holy when they go to see the hybrid (and I still want to know is the 6 Baltar sees an angel or devil cause sometimes evil wears a freindly face).
And in all I hate having to wait 2 weeks to see what happens after the baseship jumped in all as I said earlier this was a kicking great episode.
BSG Theories
I think the only reason Sharon and Roslin are having dreams of the opera house is because Hera is is seeing her future and Sharon and Roslin are only seeing it because they both carry Hera’s blood cells . And through tragedy Caprica 6 will become Hera’s mother or guardian and Baltar’ s . as told by the six s2 ep Home part 2.
Still think Roslin is the fifth cylon because the prophecy states:dying leader not will be dead. And cylon can mimic all human emotions and sicknesses etc.
The rebel cylons know who the five or just four in the fleet perhaps breakig down some sort of distortion programming that Athena hasn’t gotten past herself.
And see how fate is as work and the bsg writers where the final 5 are losing all ties with their lives with the fleet making it easier for them to leave everything behind.
BSG Razor:A part of the hybrid’s prophecy where it describes the awkeing of four of the five he also states in their confusion he will find her . Enemies brought together by impossible longing, enemies now joined as one. I thought it was leoben and Kara I now think it’s Tigh and Caprica 6.
Readers only continue if you want to see the hybrid’s prophecy my interpretation:
Soon there will be four in glourious in awakeing struggling with the knowledge of their trueselves
( Tyrol, Tigh,Tory and Sam finding out there cylons)
The pain of revelation bringing new clarity ,
(the four taking differant paths other than that in which they were already on : look at Tigh this is the longest he’s ever been sober, and actually giving the right orders,Tory being more confident also killing without remorse. Sam always knowing he had a destiny to become greater than sone pyramid player just as leoben told him in the road not taken. And Tyrol finally admiting he still loves Boomer and he was wrong abandoning her when she needed him most.)
And in the midst of this confusion, he will find her brought together by impossible longing, enemies now joined as one, the way forward once unthinkable yet inevitable.
( six and Tigh in eachother’s company alot lately).
And the fifth still in shadow will claw toward the light hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering.
(Roslin: she is constantly shown in shadows or dim light and she has done horrible things to the cylons and others when acting like a dictator at times she is not pure of heart people).
I can see them all seven now six machines
(the boxing of the 3’s )
who beleive themsselves without sin but in time it is sin that will consume them they will know emnimity
( cavil above all hating humans, Athena hating her own people boomer hating herself)
and wretching agony of the one splintering into many.( great pain of tragedy will be felt on both sides)
and they will join the promise land gathered on the wings of an angel not an end but a begining.
The promise land a coherant society of cylon and human may be earth may not be earth living with a standing truce for good led there by Kara Thrace . Destiny fulfilled. So sat we all.
May 24th, 2008 at 6:24 pm
Thanks Tigh…I’ll find a different way to post it larger….frakkkkkkk!
May 25th, 2008 at 4:45 am
This is my first time finding the BSGcast. Wow this show rocks this is probably the best produced internet show I have ever seen good job.
So Is there any reason why for the cast of this show you picked Mat (who kind of looks like Baltar) and Nat (who kind of looks like Boomer) ok end of the conspiracy theories.
The Meaning of the Opera house: So I think that I have found the meaning of the Opera house. These visions are seem to be really just an allegory. you have 6 as the leader of the Cylons and Roslin The leader of the humans chasing after Hera (the link between the humans and the Cylons). Hera is the Child of the future she is the vision of things to come so both sides are fighting for control of the things to come. But Hera ends up with Baltar.
Hera represents renewed hope and prosperity for the future generation (see the Sun Card in Tarot). Hera the Goddess is the queen of the Gods the divine Matriarch. So does that mean that this child named Hear is percived in a similar way? probably. So the fight is who will have control over the future.
The Answer: obviously not Roslin she wants power for herself she wants control to be in the hands of mankind and is generally Anti-cylon. Not 6 because 6 although she has come to like the humans in one way or another does not trust them and would not have the capacity for a future that mutually respects both.
Baltar: Baltar has transformed into pure spirit he has gone through what Joseph Campbell calls the Heros Journey. He has had a past that has allowed him to develop a love of both human kind and Cylon Kind. in the Opera house Hera runs to Baltar. in side the room Blatar takes her you can see has pews like a Church. So Hera is baptized into Baltar’s new Religion and vision. He ultimately holds the key to true peace between both Cylons and Humans.
I think that the plot to find Earth is going to become a side plot in the end. Once all the models are united finding earth will be quite easy. In the end it will be this whole long struggle to mold the people in a way where they can accept the future of peace between cylons and humans and the melding of both. As annoying as it is this whole series is all about getting Baltar to give up his selfishness and usher in the new era for Cylons and Humans. and Hera is the key.
Just a theory: but I have training in Mythology and Symbolism and to me this story follows a very similar pattern to other myths and stories. I can’t wait to see if I am right!! thanks for the BSG cast
May 25th, 2008 at 5:11 am
Thanks for the Birthday wishes Jim! I wasn’t sure if it would find its way onto BSGcast.com, but we’re quite a resourceful bunch, Battlestar Fans are
Despite all the birthday hootenanny, I’ve been keeping up with the comments on here and WOW it’s amazing what happens when we’ve got a longer than average break between episodes, because there is some GREAT stuff up here!
Drascus, thanks for coming by and leaving a comment, that’s a great breakdown of the Opera House allegory!
~Matt
May 25th, 2008 at 10:36 am
kaybrid wrote:
I really don’t think so. It seems to me that Athena was deadly serious when she bitch-slapped the other Eights about having the guts to make a choice and stick it, no matter how scary the consequences are. Look at it from her POV: Roslin ’stole’ her baby, and left her locked in the brig going out of her mind with grief and rage for over a year. Then, the Cylons found Hera and she would have died, if Athena hadn’t convinced her husband to kill her so she could download into the proverbial lion’s den. She just wanted to see and hold her child that much.
IMNSHO, Athena does love the Old Man, knows what a leap of faith it was for him to let her out of the cage. She made her choice and she’s going to stick it; but psychologically I don’t think she can handle even the possibility of her daughter being taken away from her again, or her family being reduced to a pawn in another great design.
You’d think Adama, of all people, would get that because, for better and for worse, he does view his crew as a family. His family. Not saying he’s a wimp who won’t send people out to die, if that’s what it takes to get the job done — he’s the commander of a military warship. But he’s not careless with their lives.
May 25th, 2008 at 11:50 am
ok so this episode rocked, first one of this season I can honestly say I liked. Some of you probably disaggree with me, and ok I’ll admit there were some interesting plot-starters but really nothing has wowed me about this season, until now. I don’t really have much more to say except, did anyone else notice Lee is still wearing a wedding ring? I thought he and Dee split up, so why the ring? Just wondered if anyone else noticed.
May 25th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
If we all agreed on everything, Lizzy, what a fraking boring ‘verse it would be.
And I do get it — while I love heavily ’serialised’ storytelling, a lot of people don’t. RDM has said repeatedly the front ten of this season was conceived as one giant arc, and there’s always going to be the question in the back of a lot of people’s mind whether it’s all going to pay off in a satisfying manner or turn into Lost at its worse (which, to be a little crude, I checked out of last season because there’s only so much teasing I can take without getting a little action). The funny thing is that the most criticised episodes of BSG are… the ones conceived as stand-alones at a remove from the central mythos. Fraked if you do, fraked if you don’t I guess. 
May 25th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
“It seems to me that Athena was deadly serious when she bitch-slapped the other Eights about having the guts to make a choice and stick it, no matter how scary the consequences are.”
Absolutely, but what I meant was, could the other 8s be controlling her somehow, messing with her programming? I don’t think she’d try to subvert the mission consciously. I just think all those 8s wanting to go against the 6s is something that we’re going to see again.
May 25th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
Laura (Mary McDonnell) listed as the #1 Hottie over 50 (ahead of Denzel Washington) by Entertainment Weekly!
You go girl…
http://www.ew.com/ew/gallery/0,,20202055,00.html?iid=top25-20080525-33+hotties+over+age+50
Now if we can just get Nat on that list all will be right with the world…
May 25th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
According to the novel adaptation of the mini-series, Roslin is 48 years old when we first see her. So, with the timeframe now, she’s roughly around 49/50 (seeing that some considerable time has passed between when the Final Four realized what they were). Of course, I know some people wouldn’t count that as part of the show’s canon, so I’m just bringing it up as an interesting detail ub relation to Sirslam’s comment.
May 25th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
This is slightly off topic from the episode, but it’s slightly on topic for the entire show, and I can’t help but wonder: We’ve gotten a “Galactica-ized” version of the classic “All Along The Watchtower”. Now, I’ve been listening to a few songs and can’t help but wonder what they would be like if they were “Galactica-ized” as well. So, my question to you all is this: What other Earth songs would you like to hear “Galactica-ized”?
My choices:
1. “Silent Running” by Mike and The Mechanics
2. “High Hopes” by Pink Floyd”
3. “Shadow of the Day” by Linkin Park
4. “Won’t Get Fooled Again” by The Who
5. “The Ace of Spades” by Motorhead
6. “Fall in the Light” by Lori Carson (from the “Strange Days” movie soundtrack, played during the last scene before the end credits)
7. “If You Tolerate This, Then Your Children Will Be Next” by Manic Street Preacher
8. “The Show Must Go On” by Queen
9. “Gimme Shelter” by The Rolling Stones
10. “White Rabbit” by Jefferson Airplane
May 26th, 2008 at 1:25 am
I absolutely agree with your last sentence, after all there’s something all too human (or Cylon) about making a hell of a mess and operating under the delusion you can just take it all back, and everything will be OK. But it just seems to me much more interesting if there’s NO outside influence — that Athena didn’t do what she did because she’s a Six, but because she’s a mother who’s scared, doesn’t know what the frak is going on, but is going to be damned if anyone, or anything, is going to take her daughter away from her again. (Call me a sentimental old whoopsie, but I don’t think you frak with a mother and her child the way Athena has, without there being some serious blowback. Of course, this being BSG, you blow at the worse possible moment.)
Yeah, now if they’d stop giving Mary digital botox every time her picture appears in that rag… BTW, how fraking condescending is that list? IMNSHO, Mary and Denzel were – and are – hot at any age. And please don’t get me started on Mr. Olmos, or this board is going to get triple X-rated very fast.
May 26th, 2008 at 2:00 am
How about “Don’t Fear the Reaper” with Tigh demanding “More frakking cowbell!!!” from Tyrol.
Seriously, I think Pink Floyd’s “Shine on You Crazy Diamond” would be awesome. The lyrics about a person going crazy fits the evolution of the show. Even more so with the spiritual journey this final season has taken. Plus I’d love to see what Bear would do with the piece.
Here are the lyrics for reference…
Remember when you were young, you shone like the sun.
Shine on you crazy diamond.
Now there’s a look in your eyes, like black holes in the sky.
Shine on you crazy diamond.
You were caught on the crossfire of childhood and stardom,
blown on the steel breeze.
Come on you target for faraway laughter,
come on you stranger, you legend, you martyr, and shine!
You reached for the secret too soon, you cried for the moon.
Shine on you crazy diamond.
Threatened by shadows at night, and exposed in the light.
Shine on you crazy diamond.
Well you wore out your welcome with random precision,
rode on the steel breeze.
Come on you raver, you seer of visions,
come on you painter, you piper, you prisoner, and shine!
May 26th, 2008 at 2:36 am
Sorry to break topic but I have been watching old episodes during the 2 week break and I noticed 2 things. The first is that I have to get out more. The second is a theory about the final cylon. And I apologize if someone else has brought it up before.
It struck me the similarities between Lee Adama’s relationship with his father and that of the cylons and humans over the course of Battlestar. We first see Lee and he is really angry at his father for what he believes his father has done in the past. He is very much a product of his military training and clashes with his father often. Through exposure to his father and others in the crew he begins to be less the military ‘machine’ and more human. A more mature relationship between father and son evolves. Love has played a huge part in this transformation. In the latest series he has stopped fighting his enemy and turned to pursue a greater purpose, not through warfare but through politics.
When we first meet the Cylons they are very angry at their ‘father’ for what they believe he has done in the past. The first 2 series sees a very militaristic Cylon and lots of clashes with their ‘father’. Through exposure to the Colonials we begin to see a more human side to the Cylon and a more mature relationship between ‘father’ and ‘child’ develops (at least for some of them). Love has played a huge part in this transformation. In the latest series they have stopped fighting their enemy and turned to pursue a greater purpose, not through warfare but through politics.
Now I know that this is very simplistic and may not fit in with the hybrids and everything else. But it struck me that seen this light then Lee would be a natural choice as the final Cylon. Imagine if the camera pans on him when the final Cylon is revealed. How will those close to him react, especially his father! That could lead to the final act of forgiveness for ‘the sins of the father’.
Also in reference to my first posts it is good to see that I am not alone in believing that Natalie 6 is the dying leader who will discover the secret of the opera house. Can’t wait.
Cheers
May 26th, 2008 at 3:15 am
Hey guys,
I just had this random theory coming to mind watching the preview for sine qua non. if tigh did frak with caprica six that would conclude that all of the known four models of the final five have been intimate with the other cylon models. For example Tory and Anders. Tyrol and Boomer and Tigh and Caprica. So by looking at it from this perspective, the unknown urge to seek out the other cylons, perhaps, or perhaps i am looking for straws. So possible matches are:
Athena and Helo
Ellen and One
Starbuck and Head Two
Tory and Guias
Ellen and Tigh
Guias and Caprica Six
Guias and Three
Cally and Tyrol
Idk maybe it is an insane idea, but it is just what poped into my head
cya ya all soon
May 26th, 2008 at 4:10 am
On the topic of the identity of the dying leader I still think it will be Roslin. While some parts of hybrid prophecies will be misleading e.g. the harbinger of death part, I believe that a large part of the prophecy will be fairly straight forward and mean what is says and I count the Dying leader shall come to know the truth about the Opera House as one of them.
If there is a twist then the most likely twist IMO is the proposed that the come to know the truth part is referring to coming to the basestar and not learning the truth. Given that so far the only people we know of in the Opera House are: Baltar, Caprica 6, Head 6, Athena, Roslin and Hera that the the prophecy has to refer to Roslin since as far as we know Natalie has not visited the Opera House or know about it.
May 26th, 2008 at 4:46 am
[...] http://www.bsgcast.com/?p=47 [...]
May 26th, 2008 at 5:07 am
Alert Viper said:
It struck me the similarities between Lee Adama’s relationship with his father and that of the cylons and humans over the course of Battlestar. We first see Lee and he is really angry at his father for what he believes his father has done in the past. He is very much a product of his military training and clashes with his father often. Through exposure to his father and others in the crew he begins to be less the military ‘machine’ and more human. A more mature relationship between father and son evolves. Love has played a huge part in this transformation. In the latest series he has stopped fighting his enemy and turned to pursue a greater purpose, not through warfare but through politics.
When we first meet the Cylons they are very angry at their ‘father’ for what they believe he has done in the past. The first 2 series sees a very militaristic Cylon and lots of clashes with their ‘father’. Through exposure to the Colonials we begin to see a more human side to the Cylon and a more mature relationship between ‘father’ and ‘child’ develops (at least for some of them). Love has played a huge part in this transformation. In the latest series they have stopped fighting their enemy and turned to pursue a greater purpose, not through warfare but through politics.
VERY INTERESTING. Just another set of parallels in this show which enrich each other. The cylon-human relationship is very much a child-adult relationship, or creation-creator relationship (Dr. Frankenstein and his monster)….but it highlights the way that humans are NOT so much more mature and evolved the way parents/adults are supposed to be in comparison to children. It just highlights the newness and inexperience of cylons at naviagating relationships with humans and with each other.
So much happened in that episode, it’s incredible.
Tootie
May 26th, 2008 at 9:36 am
And I’d love to be a fly on the wall of the budget meeting, if Ron was pitching the licensing fee for anything from the Pink Floyd back catalogue — Pink Floyd seldom licence covers of their songs, and charge a LOT of cubits when they do. But if we’re going there, I’d have to say ‘Comfortably Numb’ is about as “BSG-y” as you can get:
May 26th, 2008 at 10:40 am
If Baltars cylon detector did work, scholdnt he know who the final five is. He might not have tested all but atleast Tigh.
May 26th, 2008 at 11:46 am
Chicago Tribune Battlestar Galactica lover — and a lover of Gaeta’s singing! She writes her impressions every week. She is not as strong as Matt and Nat, but worth a read!
http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2008/05/battlestar-ga-1.html
May 26th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Adalla/Matt/Nat: The Last Supper picture has changed I think! Wasn’t there something on the picture before that Laura was setting on fire? Now it is only the match?
May 26th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
# Sirslam Says:
May 26th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Adalla/Matt/Nat: The Last Supper picture has changed I think! Wasn’t there something on the picture before that Laura was setting on fire? Now it is only the match?
Your right, I just looked at the one that is on sci-fi now vs. the one I downloaded, the only change is Laura is lighting what looks like some kind of pot. Now the burning pot is gone. Hmmmm wonder what this means?
May 26th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
For some reason I have been unable to post something — trying again. Does the missing “burning pot” or “chalice” mean that Laura’s fire too is burning out? Does it mean her time as the light of the fleet is coming to an end?
May 26th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
Alert Viper:
That’s a really interesting reading, but I’d like to come at it from a slightly different angle. Remember in the mini-series, when Lee blows up at the old man over Zac’s death and says “One of us wasn’t supposed to wear the uniform”? Well, as the series as played out, was I the only person who thought the truth Lee didn’t have the guts to speak was “neither of us was supposed to wear the uniform”? Lee is such a seething cauldron of self-deception, evasions, doing all the wrong things with the very best of intentions, and just not BEING HONEST WITH HIMSELF OR ANYONE ELSE about who he is, or what he wants to be. (Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t implied at one point that, after his father’s retirement, Lee was going to quit the Colonial Fleet and open a bar?)
If you want to draw a thematic link between Lee and the Cylons, I think that’s a more interesting path. After all, the whole arc of the Cylons is the exposure of the lies they tell themselves about their nature and place in the universe — after all, what was their justification for the near-total genocide of the human race? We’re the chosen of God, and this is His plan. We are united in a common purpose; unlike humanity, we don’t kill our own, out of lust for power, hatred, fear, jealousy. Even beginning to face the truth has lead to a brutal civil war that will have far-reaching consequences for Cylon and Colonial alike. Myth becomes reality, the most basic assumptions are exposed as lies. And it’s only just started.
If I had to come up with a tag-line for this season it would be: EVERYTHING YOU THINK YOU KNOW IS WRONG.
May 26th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
If Lee is being sworn in as Vice President, what the hell happened to Zarek?
May 26th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
I was discussing with a friend about a couple theories of mine and the last supper picture came up with one of my theories and I thought I’d tell it here. It’s short. As mentioned the burning pot or even candle burning in front of Laura is now gone. Her candle went out. It’s a metaphor for dead. I think I’m right that the Basestar is going to blow up and she will die on it along with Baltar.
May 26th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
There’s no way Baltar is going is going to die on the basestar. It’d make no sense at all. He’s obviously part of the prophecy and they wouldn’t have built up this huge role for him just to throw him out meaninglessly.
May 26th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
Flieslord…if Roslin is AWOL due to the Cylon basestar jumping away then Zarek would become interim President of the colonies and they would have to elect or succeed a VP.
May 26th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
In the trailer, Zarek is right next to Lee (I triple checked that). My bet is that Zarek is the interim President and Lee is the interim VP.
Jim, I agree with you — I think it is a metaphor for her dying.
May 26th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
I’ve had a feeling even sine the last episode that Laura is going to die on the Hub when she learns the truth of the opera house. The question is will this be the last we see of her or will she pop up in visions from the next realm or maybe return as the final cyclon.
About Zarek and Lee, in the preview Adama says “Frack Zarek” So maybe Adama might be trying to push Zarek out of the presidency.
May 26th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
Maybe?
I don’t think Zarek has some nefarious agenda to take over the Fleet but he’s not going to take any s**t from the Old Man, and vice versa — and they’ll take the Fleet to a state of a civil war out of sheer bloody mindedness. Could this be the episode where we find out Lee has got his mojo back after all — and, with the ethically icky but acute advice of Romo Lampkin, takes on one President, one Admiral and one horrendously unstable fleet.
May 26th, 2008 at 6:55 pm
Craig- I also love that song. Definately a good Pink Floyd song, would most likely be Starbuck’s theme song though.
May 26th, 2008 at 11:32 pm
The last few episodes have been great. One thing has struck me as odd though. The non-rebel cylons haven’t been around much.
My theory (sorry if it’s already been said) is the non-rebel cylons left the rebel cylons alive on purpose. My guess is the non-rebels could easily track the rebel basestar and follow them to the humans. I think it would be logical for the non-rebels to expect a attack form the rebels/humans given the much-ado about unboxing the 3’s.
With that in mind, why extend yourself to attack an enemy where they expect it? Make them come to you and attack your enemy in your own stronghold (cylon hub). Remember the heavily damaged viper in the preview?
I think this is all leading to some kind of ambush from the non-rebel cylons. The details in/after the ambush I think, will set the stage for finding earth.
As for the final cylon, I’m still not completly sure, but it seems Gaeta is suffering and singing (howl of terrible suffering?) and will likely struggle to continue to be usefull after losing his leg (clawing towards the light?).
May 27th, 2008 at 2:31 am
On that last supper picture Kara’s tattoo is gone too. Just following on with a bit of a difference to the posts about Roslin may be going to die with Baltar on the Baseship. I think poor Roslin is gona kick it and Baltar is gona show her the truth of the opera house. Love reading all the posts and watching Matt + Natt on the cast! Roll on the next episode!
May 27th, 2008 at 3:36 am
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20169703,00.html
HERE’S A LINK TO THE LAST SUPPER PHOTO, AND SOME COMMENTS BY RON MOORE. THIS IS THE ORIGINAL PICTURE, SO EVERYONE CAN COMPARE THE DIFFERENCES. LAURA HAS SOMETHING LIKE A SMALL CHALICE IN WHICH SHE IS BURNING SOMETHING. WHICH ACCORDING TO RON MOORE “She’s burning something of importance that has to do with a plot turn mid season” WHICH ALSO TELLS ME THAT SHE IS STILL ALIVE MID SEASON, AND IN A POSITION TO “COVER SOMETHING UP” MAYBE. SO I DON’T THINK SHE DIES JUST YET.
AND AS FAR AS KARA’S TATTS, SHE HAS NEVER HAD THEM IN THAT PICTURE, NEITHER HAS ANDERS HAD HIS IN THE SAME PIC. NOT THAT I’M SURE THAT IT MATTERS MUCH, COULD JUST BE THAT WHEN THE PHOTO WAS TAKEN THAT THE TATTS THE STUDIO USED WHERE NOT PUT ON THE ACTORS, BUT THEN AGAIN WHO KNOWS.
THERE’S ACTUALLY ALOT OF INFO IN THAT PIC, SO CHECK IT OUT, ESPECIALLY WITH THE COMMENTS FROM RON MOORE FOR EACH PART OF THE PIC, IT EXPLAINS SOME THINGS WE HAVEN’T SEEN YET, AND NOW THAT WE’RE SEVERAL EPISODES IN, WE CAN SEE WHAT SOME OF THE THINGS THAT RDM WAS TALKING ABOUT WHEN HE EXPLAINED THIS PIC.
ANYWAY CHECK IT OUT, IT’S COOL.
May 27th, 2008 at 5:55 am
Another noticeable small detail, this time from “Razor”. I rewatched BSGCast’s vid and their comment about the mechanical arm covered in flesh just being “turned around”. After watching “Razor” again, I’ve come realize its not the “same arm turned around”, it’s actually the same arm and same room period. By the way it’s looks, Adama was inside the Hybrid’s Basestar after his crash landing into that factory building, so Adama was inside the same room that Kendra, Starbuck and the rescue team find the surviving humans. The hallway is also the same one. So, the two survivors from the Diana that Adama tried to help was still onboard.
May 27th, 2008 at 7:05 am
Just a quicknote to Matt and/or Nat that it would be useful to have a link up for the next episode as it will be shown on Sky One in a few hours, and presumably be up for download shortly after. So there will be many new points for discussion
May 27th, 2008 at 7:29 am
I’m hoping someone will be kind enough to upload the new episode somewhere after it airs in the UK. I don’t think I can wait til Friday.
May 27th, 2008 at 8:07 am
Mazimitsu Says:
My theory (sorry if it’s already been said) is the non-rebel cylons left the rebel cylons alive on purpose. My guess is the non-rebels could easily track the rebel basestar and follow them to the humans.”
WHY didn’t I see that??? I think you’re absolutely right. Brilliant.
Craig Ranapia Says:
Lee blows up at the old man over Zac’s death and says “One of us wasn’t supposed to wear the uniform”? Well, as the series as played out, was I the only person who thought the truth Lee didn’t have the guts to speak was “neither of us was supposed to wear the uniform”? Lee is such a seething cauldron of self-deception, evasions, doing all the wrong things with the very best of intentions, and just not BEING HONEST WITH HIMSELF OR ANYONE ELSE about who he is, or what he wants to be.”
Hmmmm. He was an excellent officer, dedicated, compassionate, good communicator, motivator, military decision-maker, lots of guts. So I can’t agree with you at all that he wasn’t supposed to wear the uniform.
I agree with “seething cauldron of self-deception, evasions” and dishonesty as applied to Lee’s personal life IN THE PAST. He was truly pathetic about Kara and Dualla. He married her because Kara spurned him and needed to be honest with himself and everyone else.
He’s also incredibly moral in other ways.
But I love his character because he’s fallibly human and is just trying to make his way in the universe like the rest of us, and trying to grow up and be a better person. I don’t think you can say he’s any “seething cauldron of self deception etc.” any more.
Kudos to Maureen Ryan at the Chicago Tribune (blog link above) for noticing AGAIN a plot loophole: “The Demetrius couldn’t have turned up first and said, “Hey everybody, look what followed us home!” and then had the base star jump to the fleet?…I think that opening sequence was there to give us one more crazy fleet crisis and to give Adama a chance to look at Tigh and say, “Why can my XO draw on some kind of psychic juju when it comes to Cylon base stars?”
I couldn’t agree more. It was STUPID, like the conflict over whether to return the Demetrius to the fleet or go searching for Earth was STUPID because there was a raptor there all the time that was avoided in the conflict situation until Gaeta was shot.
I just LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE BSG and it hurts when they stick in a loophole just to create (fake) drama. Gimme a break Ron! NO MORE OF THIS CRAP PLEASE! Find a way to make conflict and tension and suspense plausible….PLEASE.
Tootie
Why
May 27th, 2008 at 10:34 am
Tootie
Couldn’t agree with you more about not having the Demetrius jump in first, given that it could still be a cylon trap a more prudent course of action would have been to have the Basestar stay where it was and have the Galactica or some boarding raptors jump to it, secure the ship then had it jump near the fleet.
As for a reason Tigh realised they didn’t need to attack how about the fact the basestar had not launched raiders or opened fire
Also keep an eye out for torrents of the next episode as it has just finished in the UK (I couldnt watch it as the TV had been claimed for the evening).
May 27th, 2008 at 10:44 am
The question here is what Lee wanted to do with his life — his father is, for better or worse, career military. After the Cylon War ended, he was obsessed with getting back into the Fleet, and once he did it sure seems like his marriage, his family all came second. When the world endled, Lee wasn’t the only person who had to just step the frak up and get the job done no matter what he felt about it. Laura Roslin never wanted to be President — according to Epiphanies, she would have been facing a hell of fight to stay Education Secretary. The Old Man was ready to retire. And so on…
In the end, I totally agree with you that Lee is changing and it’s a great thing to see — perhaps Romo Lampkin wasn’t playing a headgame when he wrote that there’s nothing more dangerous than a son who finally decides to step out of his father’s shadow.
I’ve nothing but kudos for Mo’, who’s been a big BSG-booster since the mini-series but I think she’s half-wrong about this. Yes, you don’t sit in the writer’s room and think “how boring can we possibly make this scene?”
But it does have a dramatic logic to it — in case Ms. Ryan didn’t notice trust isn’t exactly lying around the Demetrius like mounds of raw tyllium ore on the Dozu Maru. Take your eyeballs off Starbuck (whatever the frak is going on with her) and a Basestar full of Cylons (whatever the frak is going on with them)? And on the plausibility scale, where would you place the Old Man just saying “OK, call ‘em in” on being told that a basestar just wants to jump into the middle of the fleet, and they’re really OK ’cause Starbuck says so?
Has anyone else noticed that Starbuck has something of a ‘my way or… wait a moment, there’s only my way’ command style? You know, the kind of ‘tude that tends to get people’s hackles up, even when they haven’t been stuck chasing the visions of a dead woman in a garbage scowl for two months.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:51 am
Just finished watching Sine Qua Non on Sky, another gr8 episode!! Won’t give anything away as I know u poor ppl in the States have 2 till Friday before u get 2 see it for a change (HA HA)
. Just watch out for one intense scene with Saul & Adama & a class ending. Just fantastic!!
May 27th, 2008 at 11:00 am
I just watched the episode as well but I personally thought it was very weak and poorly written. In my opinion the ending of this episode was terrible and very cheesy for this great show. I see this episode as one of the worst episodes of BSG ever (yes it almost competes with The Woman King for that title) and definitely the weakest of season 4.
May 27th, 2008 at 11:02 am
I am talking here about “Sine Qua Non” if I wasnt so clear on my previous post.
May 27th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
yea, i assumed it was fake when i saw it leak, didn’t realize UK’s SKYONE did not have the 1 week break from airing that the rest of us got stuck with tsk tsk…sorry to say, i’m grabbing the leak! but no worries, i’ll still watch it when it airs here in toronto cuz BSG is the best! & cuz i usually don’t leave my house on friday until post-11pm anyways…yep, i’m a night person…
May 27th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Come on, Fayez… to say that “Sine Qua Non” is one of the worst episode ever is beyond ridiculous. To say it is the weakest episode of this season might be more accurate. Though, a lot of important things happen in this episode, but they are strangely executed. Something felt really off about much of this episode. I just didn’t connect to most of the events like I normally do. However, it is nowhere near “Black Market” or another episode I hated, “Hero.” I think some of my lack of interest throughout the episode has to do with the strength of the last few. This one really lacked passion, or maybe the performances were just not on par with the rest of this season. The writing wasn’t the big problem (though it was a problem), I think the actors were a bit too disconnected at times.
I think we have been spoiled so far with great performances… and maybe Romo brought it all down this week. Oh well, it still had very important stuff going on but we need to wait another week to see what happens.
May 27th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
does anyone know of any sites that have a working stream of Sine Qua Non? i’m looking for something similar to sidereel.com….and no torrent sites please.
May 27th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
Here’s a funny pic of a basestar I whipped together last week…had trouble posting it here for some reason…try this page…
freewebs.com/admanbsg/
May 27th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
Yes, Sine Qua Non is a very Romo heavy episode. I thought one of the charms of this character was that he never said much, but here he goes on and on and on, blathering his little quips and blathers. Also Zarek didn’t seem too “Zarek” to me in the Quorum. “Quiet, please, quiet” Is this Tom Zarek or a school marm?
I have to agree that the ending is pretty weak. One is amazed but not out of any positive development, but at how odd and flat it feels. I was excited to see the episode since I did not think it would be available online, but as the episode went on and nothing happened that made much sense to me, I was left kind of empty.
At this point, I feel as if the writers are doing things just to do them. I think it is bad that we have no sense of where things are heading, at least I do not, so there is nothing to pull me along in anticipation except the continuation of last week’s events.
May 27th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
It might be a good idea to start a new header. I’ve seen Sine Qua Non. While not as heart pounding as the last two episodes it still has a lot of very interesting story points. By no means is it the new Woman King. It does feel a little odd though. I won’t say anything until a new header is made.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
Sine Qua Non was excellent. You guys be trippin’.
May 28th, 2008 at 2:27 am
As with Tigh Fighter I will leave most of my commenting till a new header will come up, but in brief
The Non Lee Adama Plot: Very Good, one moment that made me go What! outloud since even though it has been predicted I did not think it would happen
The Lee Adama/Romo subplot: Aside from the Cat Question pointless and should have been dealt with in the first act as it was obvious even without the trailer what was going to happen
A New thoughts on Final Cylon
I have a few bout some I wont mention due to spoilers, another is that we may be taking the terrible suffering part of the razor hybrid prophecy the wrong way (And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering). What if instead of the suffering belonging to the cylon it is instead a collective howl of the fleet as this season does seem to be a season of suffering for lots of people
Anyway I am about to write a spoiler filled review and analysis for my blog and it should be up in the next hour or two
http://randomremarks.wordpress.com/
May 28th, 2008 at 2:37 am
Ciel, we are really not trippin’. There was something off about this episode. It could be the editing but it just felt kind of… I am still trying to put my finger on it. I know that when I talk about the episode, it actually has some really good stuff going on, but when I watch it… there is something unnatural about it.
I rarely say anything negative about this show, so for me to feel this way… there is something wrong.
May 28th, 2008 at 3:50 am
Razorback
I suspect the thing you are finding kind of off is that it feels like half an episode, I suspect that initially Sine Qua Non and the next episode where one episode but at some point a decision was made to split it into two episodes and the pointless “Who will be President” subplot added, I therefore suspect we will have a similarly useless subplot next week.
Anyway my spoiler filled summary, review and analysis is up on my blog (linked in my username and above) in case anyone wants to comment on the episode in a spoiler friendly environment while we wait for the Sine Qua Non link to become available at BSGCAST
May 28th, 2008 at 5:03 am
Ok, I have now watched the episode again and have had time to reflect better on it. I still think it is the weakest episode this year in the area of editing. However, once I got settled into the story (which is a bit confusing due to the quick cutting). The whole who-will-be-president subplot is the weakest element but on repeated viewings, my dislike for Romo has dissipated. Now that I have had the chance to pay more attention to his dialogue, it is actually interesting and funny. The whole cat element, that initially rubbed me wrong, now makes a lot more sense to me. I can see where they were going with it.
So, I think this episode requires more than one viewing before judging it. The pacing is a bit too fast and you can see the cuts in scenes (and you should not really see the cuts so clearly). The episode still feels rushed but I liked it a lot more around my third viewing.
May 28th, 2008 at 5:05 am
Sorry, in the third sentence, after the parentheses, I had written “I liked it more” but then deleted it and forgot to write a replacement.
May 28th, 2008 at 5:06 am
Hi Craig Ranapia,
Thanks for your response!
Re. the start of “Guess What’s Coming to Dinner” you said
“I’ve nothing but kudos for Mo’, who’s been a big BSG-booster since the mini-series but I think she’s half-wrong about this. Yes, you don’t sit in the writer’s room and think “how boring can we possibly make this scene?” But it does have a dramatic logic to it — in case Ms. Ryan didn’t notice trust isn’t exactly lying around the Demetrius like mounds of raw tyllium ore on the Dozu Maru. Take your eyeballs off Starbuck (whatever the frak is going on with her) and a Basestar full of Cylons (whatever the frak is going on with them)? And on the plausibility scale, where would you place the Old Man just saying “OK, call ‘em in” on being told that a basestar just wants to jump into the middle of the fleet, and they’re really OK ’cause Starbuck says so?”
I agree the Old Man would never have trusted Starbuck on this, but hey, Helo golden boy was the one on the Demetrius and if he would have said the basestar is secure, Adama would have said ok, it’s secure. So….I must say again….
NO MORE STUPID PLOT TO CREATE LAME FAKE DRAMA PLEASE! YEESH! OUCH! and all the rest…
That jumping back to the fleet together is something SO DUMB that I would never have thought it could have appeared in BSG.
For those of you like me who aren’t Latin speakers,
Wikipedia: “Sine qua non or condicio sine qua non (plural sine quibus non) was originally a Latin legal term for “(a condition) without which it could not be” or “but for…” or “without which (there is) nothing”. It refers to an indispensable and essential action, condition, or ingredient.”
COOL
Tootie
May 28th, 2008 at 5:20 am
Anyone bothered by the whole Dimitrius/basestar jump thing… seriously, get over it. You are now just making an effort to hate something. It is petty.
May 28th, 2008 at 5:42 am
!SPOILERS FOR SINE QUA NON!
Stuff I found weird about it:
~The pregnancy thing is just odd. But I’ll assume it happened either when Tigh was in a daze from getting beaten or in some particularly foggy state of mind in which he was totally convinced it was Ellen.
~Adama giving control of the fleet over to a man whose judgment he just questioned. I guess there really is nobody else qualified around because Helo is elsewhere, Kelly is presumably in the brig, Gaeta is singing his ails away, Starbuck is Starbuck, and Lee is no longer military.
~Adama resigning is really weird too, given that we’re all so accustomed to Bill as the Admiral. But I like this. It shows that he is still just a man named William Adama, not a wind-up toy soldier.
~Romo freaking out was a little weird. But it totally makes sense for the character. How could such a person *not* go a little nihilistic sometimes? It also ties in with the show’s “worthy of survival” theme.
~The “WHO WILL BE PRESIDENT” plot was a little shaky, but it was so focused on the characters and not some dumb procedural aspect that I found it very enjoyable. My favorite thing to watch is two characters I love sitting in a room talking, and this episode had a lot of that.
I think the reason people may feel the episode was a little weird is because the previous one had such a build-up at the end that it felt like this would be a real blockbuster. I sort of expected it to show both what was going on over on the baseship and the fallout on Galactica. But I suppose there’s something they can’t show us yet happening with the baseship so they organized the story this way. I don’t really mind, I don’t view this season as episodic anyway. I approach it with the expectation of getting another piece of a very long movie every week. So to me it’s not like “good/bad episode”, it’s just… the next segment.
May 28th, 2008 at 5:49 am
Having seen the episode a second time now I think I was mistaken about it being one of the worst BSG episodes of all time (that honor still goes to The Woman King), but I still think it is the weakest written episode in season 4 and definitely the worst edited episode in BSG.
Like Darthrazorback says, there is something off with this episode and I dont think its the actual story (which probably sounds good on paper) it has more to do with the editing. One thing I dont understand is how long in BSG time did this episode last? Was it a couple of days or more than a week since that baseship jumped? I just wish the writers would have given us a time frame. Another issue I had with this episode is that they had so much material to cover (enough for two episodes) that they tried to squeeze into a single episode.
I personally dont have a problem with filler episodes if they are well written (I thought “The Road Less Travelled” was a fairly good episode), but this episode felt wrong and rushed. It just didnt feel like it had the high BSG standards we are so used to seeing. Let’s just hope the next two episodes take a different direction.
May 28th, 2008 at 6:17 am
Ceil,
You shouldn’t be posting any spoilers here! Couldn’t you wait until next week…some of us didn’t see it and putting Spoilers at the head of your post doesn’t work for many of us that cruise through these posts looking at key phrases and words…thanks a lot.
May 28th, 2008 at 6:28 am
hey guyss the episode sin qua non has just been aired in the UK
how come u had to wait two weeks? anyway i’ll tell u this much it is good you shall like the ending!:D
May 28th, 2008 at 9:49 am
Nat, that’s to bad you think Six isn’t pregnant because I think a Cylon/Cylon pregnancy would just twist our preconceptions of what a Cylon is, or at least in what sense the Final Five are. Further, I don’t think it was ever explicitly stated that Cylons could not interbreed only that the experiments had failed because there was no love, or at least that is what they believed. Trying to get love in the Significant Seven family so as to procreate would be like love your brother or sister to procreate. That type of love, I hope, is usually non-existant. Further, it is a huge logical jump when there is only circumstantial evidence for the inference. The inference is permissible but it is not absolute. It would be like concluding that human beings cannot procreate if there were only one male and one female whoe could not have children. There just isn’t enough evidence about what the Final Five can do to make an absolute judgment. If Six is pregnant think about what this could mean for Helo, or even Cally.
May 28th, 2008 at 11:38 am
Matt + Nat: Would it be possible to open up a new thread a day early for Sine Qua Non so that those who have already seen it and are inclined to post about it can do so…and those of us who don’t want to inadvertently read spoilers can avoid that as well?
May 28th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
prediction: dualla will eventually be killed off. she’s had so little screen time i’m beginning to wonder what purpose she even serves on the show anymore. 2 lines of dialogue since the season started? I wonder if she pissed somebody off at the studio?
May 28th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
Hey all, the new episode has been posted on surfthechannel.com a few days earlier than the scheduled airing in the U.S. This is because the British got the episode first and it was captured on tudou.
Am I just repeating theory when I say that this series seems to be going a lot towards biblical story? At first I thought it was just a Christ-ian resemblence and then I realized how wrong I was… its a Mosaic and Jewish resemblance.
12 colonies= 12 tribes of Israel
13 colony= the families that eventually led to Muhammad by Abraham’s concubine.
The prophecy from the beginning that the leader would lead them to earth, but would die before they actually got there is extremely similar to the message from God to Moses that He would not see the promised land due to His disobedience.
But enough of that.
I thought Sine Qua Non was a bad episode. It was very… bleah.
And here’s a question. If the 4 cylons that were revealed had died, would they have re spawned at a Resurrection ship? I ask because it has clearly been implied that the cylons did not always have human shaped models, and that the Centurions, or toasters, were the more familiar model. If, as it seems apparent, the cylons always resurrect in the same looking body as before, and, as it seems apparent, if the cylons are human enough to age regularly, doesn’t that mean that at some point or another that Teirel and the other final 5 would have had to respawn?
May 28th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
Also, Athena:
You say that Starbuck is not a cylon because Baltar’s detector worked, but didn’t the 6 in Baltar’s head note how surprising it was that everybody was turning up green nowadays, and Baltar says he would never tell who was or wasn’t a cylon?
So does that mean that Starbuck could be one of the final five? Somehow I doubt it, since I totally did not see the 4 being who they were, but still, maybe she is…
May 28th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
Loved the episode though I’m kinda wondering whether not Tigh’s order for Weapons Hold was because of his experience and instincts, or because he was a Cylon receiving some new information.
On a complete side note in a mad bid to try and win a T-Shirt I did this little diddy:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v51/DevilsNewAdvocate/MattandNat.jpg
May 28th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
LOL
Classic pic. Pulling all the way back to the mini. Great pic. Pariah, it gave me a laugh.
May 28th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
Well… there seems to be mixed feelings on the new ep. hmm. Friday is going to be an interesting night. I loved “Guess whats coming to dinner”. I, like many of you, teared up when hearing Gaeta’s lament. Ive been humming it since the episode ended. Thank the gods for Youtube. Back when Scifi didn’t upload the episode, someone put up the scenes with the song. Good news, otherwise I’d be humming the wrong words.
So I was checking out gizmodo the other day. catching up on past articles and they had this post which cracked me up. http://gizmodo.com/393426/cylon-baseships-run-windows-xp . Its not fake. I watched the episode again and there it was in plain sight.
It seems both the cylons and I are having the same problem. Windows XP keeps crashing our systems. lol. I wonder if this was the start of the whole conflict. Colonials wanted to convert all centurions to run Mac OS X.
Side note: So from the mid section of all these comments, it seems it was Matt’s Bday. Since some of us are not able to sing to you in person, here is Simon Pegg in our place… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa-L4uvATbE ….
May 28th, 2008 at 11:36 pm
hey Matt and Nat love your show (Matt looks like gaius and Nats hot LOL hehe) never posted here before i didnt realize i just read this and thought what are they talking about waiting another week? just another 2 days for me ? in the uk it shows on monday so its up at surfthechannel.com at We have to wait TWO WEEKS to find out what happens after “JUMP!”? Whose idea was Memorial Day anyway? is it taboo for me to leak that ? my apologies >_
May 29th, 2008 at 8:40 am
Hi Matt & Nat
I am realy loving season 4. The fact that each episode links into the whole arc is great. Living in the uk means that i have seen the next episode – but i wont reveal any details here. We know that the final 5 are different to the other 7, im wondering if they r more human or closer to humans, because the 8s seem more human than the 6 or the other model. But perhaps whatever mind the cylon used to design the human models was getting closer which each atempt.
The 1 thing aabout the final five which keeps playing on my mind is that we know Adam met Tigh a long time before the pilot because of the flashback from the beginning of season 2, if that is the case the human models have been around for a long time (longer than we have thought prior to the end of season 3).
The opera house seems to have been a constant for all of the seasons yet i am wondering if it is on earth not kolbol or caprica and it will be the place where they finaly make contact with the humans of earth.
1 last point having watched a lot of Ronald D Moore’s programmes it would not suprise me if he did destroy the galactica at the end, or he might just thows us a complete curve ball and have somthing realy stange like earth is in the stone age and they r ancestors.
May 29th, 2008 at 11:00 am
gaseous clay wrote:
Well, if you want to be a little less bitchy about it, perhaps BSG is the kind of show that isn’t full of prima donna actors who are more interested in counting their lines and close ups than doing good work? I’d like to see more of Dualla — and her character being a little more than the unhappy Mrs. Lee Adama — but in the end it’s about deploying a large (and IMNSHO vastly under-rated) ensemble cast to tell the story as well as you possibly can.
May 29th, 2008 at 11:07 am
Seth wrote:
Well, RDM has said himself that the Final Five are “fundamentally different” from the Significant Seven, but I’ve got this question. I don’t think the ages of Tyroll, Tory and Anders have been firmly established but surely they’re all much younger than Tigh. Or at least appear so. Hum…
It seems to me that over the run of the series, we’ve gradually found that both the Cylon and the Colonials have been having their assumptions about their natures, their history and even their purpose kicked out from under them. And finding out the truth is seldom a comfortable or easy process.
May 29th, 2008 at 11:17 am
mistersqueegee wrote:
Since the Rebels and Colonials are trying to destroy the Cylon’s ability to download (assuming that’s what you mean by “respawn”) it might be a moot question. But, no, I wouldn’t assume anything about the Final Five at this point — least of all that they can download. Look at it this way: If they were just like the other seven models, why were the SS programmed never to think about them, and D’Anna’s attempt to find out their identity trigger such an extreme reaction as boxing her entire model? Let alone ultimately triggering a Cylon Civil War.
You’d think one of the Final Five downloading into a Resurrection Ship would pretty much make that elaborate attempt at concealing their identities from the Seven pointless.