BSGcast: 4.09 “Guess What’s Coming to Dinner”
We have to wait TWO WEEKS to find out what happens after “JUMP!”? Whose idea was Memorial Day anyway? What the hell Ron… that was amazing. Gaeta, Baltar, Roslin, Natalie, Athena… a lot of plots are all happening at once in one place in this cliffhanger. What did YOU think of “Guess What’s Coming to Dinner”?? Let us know, for a chance to win some Alienware goodies… like those $200 Ozma7 Headphones in just 2 more BSGcasts!
May 16th, 2008 at 8:52 am
Heya folks,
first post! woot!
This is a reminder to all that tonight after the episode airs, at 11pm Eastern BSG Pilots hosts our weekly LIVE discussion of that week’s BSG episode in our “Launch Tube”, which is the name we give to our dedicated chat room.
We encourage all the people here who seem so enthusiastic about discussing and sharing BSG, to join us. You must register to login to the chat room. It shouldnt take more than a few minutes though.
I hope to see you all at 11pm Eastern in the Launch Tube for some great discussions, and looking forward as always, to the discussion right here on BSGcast.com
BSG Pilots is at http://www.majesticsites.net/bsgpilots
See you all tonight, and enjoy the episode!
Also remember, there is a sneak peak exclusive at SciFi.com com from 9am to 4pm Easter time for that week’s episode every week! Check them out and support the SciFi Channel. If SciFI gets more site hits, they are happier, more money, and more likely they will order new BSG shows in the future. So buy those DVDs, visit the SciFI channel as often as you can, and try to watch the show live to get their ratings high!
Support BSG
So Say We All
~Adalla
May 16th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
Well, I have to say that the whole “Hera drawing Six” storyline doesn’t really attract me all that much.. But hey, if that’s what I have to get through to see Adama and Roslin’s reactions to seeing Starbuck come back with a bloody Cylon basestar, then so be it!
Besides, who knows, they might surprise me with Hera’s storyline.. I guess we’ll see!
May 16th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
Interesting news on the Battlestar Galactica TV-Movie front…. it looks like we might be seeing as many as 3 MORE MOVIES being shot this fall for us in addition to some webisodes during the mid-season break:
http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2008/05/more-battlestar.html
I’m excited! Maybe Ron Moore and SciFi aren’t torturing us on purpose after all…
~Matt
May 16th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
A few more hours. WooHoo! I agree with Jarno. Its going to be fun to see Roslin and Adama’s reaction to the Basestar. What I really want to see is the word “STARBUCK” written on the damaged “wings” of the Basestar. Hopefully they have A LOT of yellow paint on board.
May 16th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Thanx so much for sharing that Matt, that is fantastic news! More BSG material!
If you dont mind, I’ll post a new article so that BSGP visitors will know about the news too
May 16th, 2008 at 5:30 pm
WOW Gata has a pair, to stay awake while having your leg cut off? No way man, and no Dr. would ever do that. I’d at least give him a good med we carry that makes you not remember a thing.
All I can say is wow.
May 16th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
Gaeta is the MAN! Not only does he stay awake for the procedure but he SINGS!!!! And wow, he sings so well!!!
As a singer myself I am pretty hard on others who try and I can tell you: He has some pipes and skills!!!!
And how about Lee and Roslin facing each other down???
May 16th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
oh my god. simple three words to describe this episode.
May 16th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
oh my god. simple three words to describe this episode.
May 16th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
…..What a frakkin tease…. and not another episode for 2 weeks?! *breath*
At least it’s only two weeks. And excellent news from Matt that we are going to have several more bsg movies!!!! Yay!! Can’t wait! That makes me really freakin happy.
May 16th, 2008 at 7:08 pm
Hey,
Did anyone catch the one and only Romo Lampkin in the preview for the next show? I have a TIVO so I could slow it down and there was a shot of Romo spliced into the trailer/promo for the next show. Why would Romo come back? I take it from the promo that Lee gets sworn in as President; maybe he brings Romo back as a special adviser?
In regards to the episode, I thought that Gaeta got a lot of screen time for what amounted to a hospital/ER visit. I don’t want to go out on a limb and say that it was a lot of foreshadowing, but why give him such a presence? Especially at the end, the tight frame shot of his sweating sad face was pretty intense. I don’t have a single clue about when the final cylon will be revealed, before the mid-season break or after the mid-season break? But if they reveal the final cylon before the mid-season break it would give the last half a lot of momentum and tension.
I can’t put my finger on what was REVEALED during this episode. A few things caught me be surprise: (1) Athena shooting Natalie. Is Athena doing the “Right” thing by “protecting” Hera, or was Athena’s role simply to give birth to Hera in order to facilitate something more important? (2) Dee was in the hall way when Athena was trying to find Hera, it seemed interesting as Tyrol was also there, which would make sense because he is one of the final five and the hallway was being spliced with scenes from the Opera House, which is where Tyrol also is present, so is Dee also present in the Opera House? Maybe.
May 16th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
Fist me whine. dammit two weeks until the next episode.
I don’t know what I’m going to do if the final ten episodes don’t air until 2009.
Now for some good news… Not only did I read about the rumored 3 BSG movies, but I heard that Caprica may get a series green light before the pilot even airs. Also there will be more webisodes on the way while we wait for the final 10 episodes. Check out the amazing Galatica SITREP blog for more details.
As for tonights episode…. I need a little time to digest it. I think I was on such a rush from last episode that I kind of glazed over this one. It was a great build up episode. The cliffhanger was awesome though. Athena killing Nat/Six, Roslin and Baltar being whisked away by the Hybrid….. Very exiciting to watch. The sad part of course is we are left hanging for two weeks. Curse you sci-fi!!!!!!!
Quick question, Was Starbuck with Roslin and Baltar? I was kind confused about that while everything was going down.
May 16th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
LOL Seriously, you guys need to get some editing options for these comments. Oh well, I guess I will have to make everyone suffer through my typos and terrible grammar.
May 16th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
The promo’s for the next episode show that Caprica six is pregnant… by Tigh!!!! And Lee is sworn in as president?? Wow!
May 16th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
Well, I’m going to go for a new approach on this episode’s comment/reviews from me. I’ll keep it simple and short, but have multi-ple comments. How about that, you wont have to scroll through 2500 words of my crap
As I always do, I’m giving this episode a 5 out of 5 stars, I’m happy to see BSG to where I like to see it. This is the BSG I fell in love with, plenty of breath-taking moments. This has now surpassed Faith as my favorite Season 4 episode, and I’ve got a feeling that each successive episode will be better than the last, so I’m thining 5 and 4.5 out of 5 stars for the rest of the season. I mean, how can it not? Only 13 episodes left to wrap it up.
That is my strongest impression from this episode. Why does Gaeta get all this screen time as a “minor” character who just gets injured. The only possible explanation is I had said in the last episode’s comments, the ONLY argument for any of the minor characters to be the Final Cylon, would be to give them instant importance, importance than other characters such as Baltar, Roslin and Starbuck dont need, because they are very important whether they are the Final Cylon or not.
So…it seems Gaeta fetches a few points in the race for who gets to be the Final Cylon. Starbuck got a few points last couple episodes, because she hears the music all the time. Gaeta gets some for his extensive screen time and singing. And of course, the other major contender is Baltar, who has a million points by now
As I said in the last episode
———Spoiler regarding reveal of Final Cylon general timing (i.e 1st half of season, beginning of 2nd half, end of series etc)————–
From the source I saw, it seem the Final Cylon will not be revealed in the first half of Season 4, but towards the last few episodes of the Series, so not until 2009. But then, it’s a rumor, not a confirmed spoiler
————————-end potential spoiler/rumor ————————
Possibly. But the Opera House vision occurs both on the Galactica and on the Base Star. Roslin and Baltar are on the Base Star, and they are in the Vision…so I doubt Dee is in the Opera House.
Ok, now onto my own points:
I CANNOT BELIEVE NATALIE GOT KILLED! DARN IT WRITERS! SHe was my favorite Six!!!!!! WHY WHY WHY! SIGH! I’M AN ANGRY BIACH LIKE TIGH, sorry to have to say to Six Good BYE.
Ok, that’s a bad rhyme 
I’m so happy Baltar is finally getting some action out of his harem. Honestly he was getting to be a bit of wasted potential in that harem type setting. So glad to see him in the action again with the big players!
I loved Tigh in this episode, loved the whole “lets talk about the Final Five right in front of them and keep their identity a secret”. Gives me chills each time anyone mentions the Final Five and the camera pans on one or more of them.
Umm..what else. Oh yes…ATHENA SHOT NATALIE! Did I mention how pissed I am? lol Though honestly I have one good thing to say about that. SO many times in so many shows and movies we see people always holding guns to people’s faces threatening to blow their heads off if they dont do as the gunman says….and 90% of the time the gunman doesnt actually shoot, or he gets stopped. I am so glad to see Galactica writers have some cogliones and actually have people shoot AND KILL…and in doing so…absolutely shock the audience. I totally did not expect Athena to shoot, yet again BSG does something I totally dont expect, it happens every episode. Still, not happy to see Natalie go darn it! If you gonna kill someone kill Seelix or Simon or Lee man. Lee has been pissing me off too. He was one of my absolute favorite characters in S1 to 3, and now he’s not even worthy of a supporting character, I really dislike his character right now.
Oh, and another absoutely cool thing about this ep, THE HYBRID is getting some serious screen time! She jumped the ship without the consent of any other skin job, and the Centurion did not obey the Six’ command to not shoot in the lasts ep!
And now they threaten to blow up the ressurection hub…it’s really going to be every cylon for itself.
Oh..and I guess we now know what the episode entitled “Hub” will be about…
that’s really awesome, I bet they really will destroy it, and Cylons and Humans will be even more indistinguishable than before…
this is truly leading to the end of the Cycle dont you think? Humans and Cylons getting closer to each other, and human-cylon hybrids being the next generation of God’s children…this is really all leading to something big…
~Adalla
May 16th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
Fantastic episode. Gaeta was making me cry between his song and the angst in his body language. I hope nobody puts a weapon close to him though, he might be all suicidal now. Seriously, is Anders not going to be punished for this because Adama seemed quite prepared to do something if the shooter had been a cylon. Also, I find it funny that last season Hera looked more like Sharon and now she’s more Helo-esque with a black curly wig. If sharon wanted to alter fate, she should have cut that girl’s hair.
May 16th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
Is this working?
May 16th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
Posted by George
wordpress problems.
——————
“Humans” die and do not resurrect.
“Cylons” die and resurrect.
The final five live in the space between life and death.
Natalie’s speech to the quorum of twelve pretty much placed huge significance on death. I truly believe that the other realm, the undiscovered country, Earth, or whatever the frak you want to call it lies beyond life as the colonials have known it. Ron Moore does have an interest in Buddhism and in some forms of Buddhism there is a strong belief in other realms: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_realms.
Interestingly, in the promo/trailer for next week there was a shot of Natalie lying as she died. I would bet that we will get to see what a cylon experiences when they die. Think about it we have seen what a human experiences when they die, the ship and the nice peaceful island, but we have yet to see what a dead cylon experiences. If Ron Moore gives us a taste of what the cylons experience when they die we could get a huge clue into what it means to be cylon. Interestingly, if a cylon’s death is different from a human’s death, we could get a big clue about the hybrid’s line: “the children of one reborn will find their own country.” Maybe cylons die differently and live in a different realm/afterlife?
So while Philip K Dick addressed the question of : Do androids dream of electric sheep?
Ron Moore seems to be after the question of: Do androids go to an electric Heaven?The show is definitely trying to answer that question. Do Androids die? Do they have a God, is there a heaven or hell?
May 16th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
I gasped audibly at least three times. What a fantastic episode.
May 16th, 2008 at 9:33 pm
I need only two words to sum up this episode:
HOLY FRAK!
May 16th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
First of all, from the teaser for the episode in 2 weeks, Natalie is not dead. The overhead shot of her looks like she’s in Sick Bay (or at least strapped to a gurney that is used for medical transportation.
Zakayo- Cylons aren’t androids. Cylons are cyborgs (Cybernetic Organisms). Data is an andriod, he has an outer appearance of a human but underneath, he is a machine. The Human Cylons don’t have mechanical inners. So, your questions should really be “Do cyborgs go to an electronic heaven?”
Also, I noticed something from the teaser: It looks like the group come across a graveyard of ships in the next episode (or maybe the remains of another Battlestar, judging by the Viper that was seen. I’ve got a feeling we’re about to find out the true meaning of “All of this has happened before, all of it will happen again.”
May 16th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
I have a few comments. Mainly am I the only one who saw that Hera had some odd similarities to Jesus. Being raised in an unfortunate totalitarian catholic upbringing I saw some similarities between Hera and Jesus. Hera at an early age seems to see her destiny or future. She seems to know what is going on in the world around her and she seems to have some recognition of the visions that her mother is seeing. This to me seems a little too similar too the story of Jesus leaving his parents and seeking his destiny and going to the priests and teaching scripture. This is similar to Hera leaving Athena and going to six, saying goodbye to her mother (similar to Jesus apologizing to his parents in leaving them), and going to the Six because she knows its her destiny to do something besides being with her mother.
Also if Sanders feels so bad about shooting Gaeta why doesn’t he talk to him or try to comfort him. Also I feel like Gaeta being featured in this episode means something, but I’m not sure if it means he’s the final Cylon or as the writers seem to enjoy, maybe Gaeta is going to die or have some important role in future episodes (whether he is or isn’t the final cylon (I feel he isn’t)).
Last is there going to be any repercussions for Sanders and Athena. I feel like somehow Sanders got let off. If the issue of him shooting a fellow officer doesn’t get addressed I’d feel like the writers are taking the easy way out. Also Athena just shoots a supposed ally of the humans. If the humans don’t punish her this is sure to tick off the other cylons due to one of their own killing a human and practically being forced to kill the cylon who did it. However, it seems somewhat likely that they won’t punish her or they will give her a slap on the wrist, but again if the writers go this route it feels like they are taking the easy way out. I feel like Sanders could get a way with a slap on the wrist, but their has to be some repercussions of Athena shooting six. However we saw Adama get shot and live so I guess it’s a possibility that Six could somehow live through the shooting, especially because all we seemed to see were chest or body shots (if they are body/gut shots it seems possibly she could recover like Adama did). Also if the humans gave Athena to the cylons for justice would be an interesting turn of events.
I actually liked Lee in this episode. He seemed to be appealing to Roslin to meet the quorum half way. I feel like this is a good turn of events for Lee, because instead of being Lee appealing to his morale values he is being the reasonable voice of reason. He also is getting along with Roslin much better than previous episodes and this could lead to them having a strong working relationship for the future, like we have seen before in previous episodes.
I also feel like Six was becoming more human than the other cylons (similarly we have seen this before). She was like a human in distrusting the humans. This is a very human emotion, in that humans can rarely feel true trust with each other. Also she felt bad about planning to betray the humans and felt like this was the wrong method, she felt remorse. If the writers kill off this Six I feel like it would be a horrible blow to the show, because she was just getting very interesting and getting human like characteristics.
I felt like this has been of the best episodes lately and felt very disappointed it ended so early and abruptly. What is going to happen with the basestar jumping from the fleet, and more importantly how did the hybrid accomplish this? It seemed that she couldn’t do this before and I feel like this is another thing that should be explained. Also the basestar jumping so randomly is only going to make the humans distrust this uneasy alliance with the cylons and make them feel like they got screwed over once again.
May 16th, 2008 at 10:53 pm
I just want thank Adalla for providing the Chat room. There weren’t many of us, but it was a lot of fun discussing the episode and theorizing in the chat. I highly recommend people give it a try. Makes me wish BSGcast had a proper forum and a chat room. Thanks again Adalla.
May 16th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
I noticed that there was a subliminial image of the hybrid in tonights episode (I’m trying to recall where it was, I think it may have been when Athena was trying to chase down Hera, but it may have been sooner than that). It was a single frame. Not sure if it was a hiccup in the actual broadcast or if it was intentional. Did anyone else notice it?
May 16th, 2008 at 11:40 pm
“I CANNOT BELIEVE NATALIE GOT KILLED! DARN IT WRITERS! SHe was my favorite Six!!!!!! WHY WHY WHY! SIGH! I’M AN ANGRY BIACH LIKE TIGH, sorry to have to say to Six Good BYE.
Ok, that’s a bad rhyme :P”
In the preview for the next episode it looked like a shot of “Natalie” still alive with the doctor looking over her. I am not completely sure that she is dead. The eights are not very good at killing,.. Adama is still alive. :p
May 17th, 2008 at 1:05 am
@CB: An Android is a 100% machine humanoid. A cyborg is an organic humanoid that has been augmented or added to in some fashion by mechanical parts. Cylons are neither. They’re just… humans?
May 17th, 2008 at 1:32 am
OK such a fast paced show last night I really need to watch it a time or two more. As an example I didn’t notice either Romo in the preview or Lee getting sworn in as president.
OK now as for what I have to say about this week. I’ll sum it up with one thing. “I Was Right!!!!!” After the Razor movie came out I had re-watched it with the subtitles on and saw all of what the Hybrid had said. When it came to his saying that Starbuck would lead the Human race to it’s end, and she was the harbinger of death I said I thought it meant the end of there search for Earth and she would be the harbinger of death for the Cylons. Now it would seen that is true. I also Said recently I thought that Hera is the 13th Cylon or the 1 reborn, it is looking like she is. Can’t say 100% I’m right on that part but it does look that way to me.
Well I’m trying to get ready to go home and still nursing my injuries here so I’m going to keep this short and I’ll add more after I watch it a couple more times at home on the DVR. I look forward to reading about what everyone else caught I missed.
May 17th, 2008 at 2:56 am
First, everything I’ve ever read or seen as a sci-fi junkie has interpreted a cyborg as a creature with equal amounts of human and machine with each side being dependent of the other (such as the Borg). If you destroy the human parts then the machine can’t operate and vice versa…now, on to this episode…
As the Yankee great Phil Rizzuto would say…”HOLY FRAKKING COW!!”
I’m letting this episode sink in a day or two but damn there will be plenty to discuss. A few things though…
I agree that Gaeta is being set up to be more than a minor character, however I still don’t see him as the final cylon, there’d be no real pay off there asthetically. Those were some seriously intense and tragic scenes. Alesandro sings very well. I want to rewatch and digest the words to his song to see how they fit in. There is probably some importance there. He does have a higher purpose…of that I’m certain.
Lee is back on the map and seems very manipulative to me. I’m not ruling him out as a choice for final cylon, especially if they’re going to install him as President. But why wouldn’t it be Zarek? Does something happen to Zarek? Interesting. Man are Lee and Daddy gonna but heads or what?!
The Hybrid making a jump was just the continuance of her purpose. When they pulled the plug she was probably already planning the jump as a matter of protection protocol…the fact that she did that first thing was just her picking up where she left off. That was a true Holy Frak moment for sure! next stop the hub and a whole lot of answers..including ones they won’t like to hear!
I don’t think Natalie is dead. She could have a near death experience though and that could be cool to see. Will it be a ferry? A forest? A white lighted ship perhaps? Hmmmm….
I loved it when Roslin called Tori out about Baltar. I was wondering when it would happen. Tori was in unfamiliar and uncomfortable territory for the first time since her revelation. That was a great uncomfortable sequence. Now, will it make Tori do something protective of her identity?
Interesting that Tyrol was torn on helping Athena or not….and that hera wasn’t geeked about it either. I agree with some here that Hera is aware of her purpose and is aware of the final five.
Next episode looks like a knock down dragout free for all. Tigh decking Adama, Lee as prez and an impending showdown at the Hub…why do we have to wait 2 weeks? Is Sci-Fi pulling a USA netwok and showing the intergalactic dog show? Oy.
May 17th, 2008 at 3:50 am
Gaeta is getting a peg leg! \o/ Damn good episode. Question is, can the humans pass of Athena shooting Natalie as cylon on cylon action?
May 17th, 2008 at 3:57 am
..WOW…is all i can say after seeing that episode!
I thought that it was astounding,the Cylon storyline i thought was great, yay more interiors, the hanger deck looked very cool!
I liked the progression with the Natalie storyline, and how the other models feel towards her (the eight and two seem to be less “cool” with her now).
One thing that came into my mind while watching it was how “The dying leader will know the truth of the opera house” now after some thinking and watching the end part with Hera i thought ” Hmmm Natalie was clearly shown as the “Leader of the Cylon Rebels” and well..shooting her twice point-blank range does always pose some health risks..
We can see from the Promo for Sine Qua Non that Natalie is lying in a hospital bed in bad shape, i presume “Dying”. Now i do have to say that with Roslin meeting the hybrid and her actually having the visions that it does point more towards her but…as we all know from watching the show, things are not always what they seem..
May 17th, 2008 at 4:10 am
good episode. I agree with the idea that Gaeta is being set up for an important role in future episodes. whether he’s the final cylon remains to be seen but you have to wonder if there’s a pattern with the final five that RDM is trying to set us up with. Tigh-loses his eye (and Ellen), Tyrol-loses his wife, Tory-loses respect from Roslin, Anders-loses his marriage with Starbuck………..Gaeta-loses his leg. i’m probably reaching with this one since most BSG crew have probably lost someone or something but food for thought.
i’m still not sold on the idea that Baltar is the final cylon either. yes, it would have great dramatic effect if he was indeed the 5th but it doesn’t make sense when you throw the opera house into the mix. the final five are purposely veiled so you don’t see their faces, but Baltar has made several appearances in the opera house with Caprica 6. Why hide the faces of the 5 and then show Baltar in a slightly different setting? Dualla seems to have been reduced to a stand-in who almost no screentime so making her the 5th would be kind of strange, unless she’s featured more in future episodes.
May 17th, 2008 at 5:18 am
OK I watched the show again on my DVR and wrote the following as I watched it. I did a lot of pause and rewind and it took about 2 ½ hours to watch this way. LOL I’m such a geek, my daughter even teased me.
Opening scenes were great when the Basestar jumped in. Galactica coming about as vipers launched. Ships trying to avoid a collision with the Basestar and Demerits, and for the first time I have noticed seeing a gunner in the main batteries of Galactica.
The 6 said to Adama that the Basestar could heal itself. New and interesting idea. This could be why the Cavils didn’t notice it was still a viable ship. It only has one spar with a piece missing now. (Not withstanding the holes in her hull.) She also said “Most” of the raiders were destroyed. This means they still have some. I wonder how that will come to play?
Did anyone notice that after Strabuck told Tie “There with me” the camera panned the people standing behind her and there were nothing but Cylons and Anders the final 5 Cylon? Also Tie had a strange look on his face as he looked at them all as if wondering if Starbuck was a Cylon and wondering if the others knew he was a Cylon?
When the 6 being questioned by I’ll call them the leadership staff mentioned the final 5 being in the fleet Tie looked scared as well as What’s her name. I also wonder if they will ever add up that Anders was the missing factor in the Cylon attacks. I wonder if they will figure out he is one of the final 5?
Will Adama figure that Tie is a final 5 with his weapons hold? He has got to be questioning everything now. I think he knows. As tie walked away Adama paused and said “Tie, thank you”. Seemed like he was thanking him for staying loyal to the human race.
As for Anders not saying anything to Gata I can fully understand that. Having been in the service I have seen friendly fire incidents, as well as accidents where the person responsible is afraid to talk to the injured person. It is very difficult to go up and say, “I’m sorry”. He is honestly dealing with posttraumatic stress syndrome. I think it will be an interesting personal character development thing and that’s all.
Interesting fact. When they show the fleet jumping back in the Basestar now has 2 spars missing, and they are almost completely gone. Just found an oops by the staff.
As the Admiral, Helo, Tie and the President are meeting in the Admirals quarters to discuss the attack of the Hub they show a close up of the painting on the wall. It is an old toaster in a battlefield. To my knowledge this is the first time it has been shown. Wonder if there is some story behind it?
Again Adama knows about Tie. He asked, “what if they are different” involving the final 5.
When Zarak asked the counsel or more directed to Lee “Why weren’t we consulted” My answer would have been it’s a military operation. Military decisions rest sole in the hands of the Admiral. That was agreed upon a long time ago.
I find it interesting that in the original Cylon war the toaster type Cylons rebelled against the Humans from being used as servants and now here we are in the Basestar, skin jobs are now the taskmasters and the centurions are the servants just like before. It has happened before it will happen again. Keeps ringing through my head now. LOL
“One clawing in the dark towards the light” I think that is the line used. Think of all Gata has been through in the past. He has been tormented and is now at rock bottom as many have said. If he had a gun he would kill himself. I do also believe he is the last of the final 5.
Lee is showing how he feels to the President and showing he is not a sniveling little crybaby but is trying to help her. Something none of us have seen nor has she and the Admiral.
I think as the 6 was addressing the quorum Starbuck had her flash back that is when she realized for sure what the Hybrid meant when she said to her “you are the harbinger of death”.
OK during the opera house dream once it was over Athena woke up to see Hera standing by her bed and said “bye bye” I truly think hera is controlling these dreams.
Back to the Basestar. They keep changing how it is put together. Sometimes all the spires are there others it only has ½ of them.
Interesting how Starbuck showed up after the vision?
When the president tells Baltar he is in her visions he seems shocked. I don’t think he is having them too so that rules him out on the theory everyone is having about him having the visions and being the last of the final 5.
One of Heras drawings has her with the 6. Mean something?
Centurions and heavy raiders were taking position in the Basestar prior to the President arriving. Are they preparing for there attack?
Now if the Basestar was preparing to jump to the ordinance of the hub is that where it jumped to when the hybrid woke up? Did the hybrid jump out of fear waking up to see all the colonial ships around her?
The two shots the 6 took were not in vital places. The biggest danger to a human body where the shots landed would be the liver but I don’t think it was quite there. I think it may have missed it thus making her saveable.
Preview of next episode.
Did cottel find that the 6 in the brig is pregnant? Tie punched Adama in the preview also. I caught it in slow motion.
When we see the viper floating it doesn’t seem to be damaged from being shot down but more from being on the Basestar as it blew up. There is a huge debris field that a raptor is flying through and someone in a colonial EVA suit floating in space. I’m not sure how Limpkin fits in but Lee is being sworn in as president. Next show will be something else.
It also shows Starbuck talking to Adama with no words, No words just the face of Lambkin so who knows whets going on.
May 17th, 2008 at 5:43 am
While I enjoyed this episode it did feel like a set up episode and we have more questions to be answered, the ones I can think of so far are:
1) Which Baltar is in the Opera House with Roslin and Athena: My initial assumption in Crossroads was head Baltar due to the Baltar being clean shaven and wearing a dark suit however after reviewing the scene in Crossroads and in GWCTD the suit that Baltar wearing while Dark is not the Head Baltar pinstripe suit and Head Baltar has to date always worn the pinstripe suit (which was the outfit we first saw Baltar wear in the pilot). This means that it is probably “real” Baltar in that scene and so that is how he knows about Athena and Roslin and Caprica 6 sharing visions
2) Why wasnt Anders disciplined for shooting Gaeta?
3) Do the rebel cylons know about Caprica 6 being on Galactica and given the nascent alliance why wasnt an offer made to return Caprica 6 to their custody
4) Any significance to Gaeta’s singing: I personally suspect it is a red herring in the final cylon hunt, also will there be a reconcilliation between Gaeta and Baltar with Baltar seemingly checking on Gaeta in medbay
5) Will Leoben be able to deal with the Centurians successfully or will they take action after the jump
6) What will the fallout be from Athena shooting Natalie and the base ship jumping away
Misc Comments on Episode
Did anyone else think at the end that Athena shot the wrong six, if she is really worried about Hera running off with a six then Caprica 6 is the one she needs to be worried about given that Caprica 6 is the one in the vision not Natalie and was it really wise to have the cylon base ship located in the middle of the civilian fleet, truce or not I would want it to be located out of weapons range with the galactica between it and the fleet since as things stood if it had started shooting it could have devastated the fleet before they could escape or the galactica took it out.
Given that the Opera House is where the final five initially resided, do Tory, Tigh, Anders and Tyrol have any memory of it, given that to date they only seem to be able to recall their “human” lives it is doubtful given this that they will be able to lead anyone to Earth unless they get their cylon memories back.
Hybrid Prophecys and Final Cylon Speculation
We got added support to the Kara Thrace as Harbinger of Death being a good thing for the cylons theory with the Natalie speech about How the cylons need death if their lives are to have meaning, if this part turns out to be good will the herald of the apocalypse also be good. Checking the Hybrid Utterances page on the BSG Wiki it should be noted that apocalypse is also mentioned in reference to the final five (five lights of the apocalypse rising struggling towards the light) indicating that the final five will also have a role in the fulfilment of this part of the prophecy.
The emphasis on Gaeta in this episode and his suffering increased the likelyhood that he is the final cylon, yet I am inclined to think that this is an attempt to mislead us. Aside from that there was little if anything to help us in the search for the identity of the final cylon
May 17th, 2008 at 6:05 am
Sorry i totally forgot to mention my other theory i had. I did my whole Natalie Theory a few posts back if anyone wants to hear it (alhough there are soo many good ones, i’m sure you’ll be bogged down as it is).
In Faith Where Laura is on the boat and she sees the people on the shore line, that to me is undoubtedly the after life. The Hybrid said that Kara was A harbinger of death. On wiki it says “A harbinger is a sign of things to come.” Meaning that she may not be the one responsible but just a signal of its arrival.
But also i had a thought that maybe that vision was on Earth and Earth is a paradise where the Cylons and Humans will live together in peace, and technically dead.
May 17th, 2008 at 6:15 am
It’s a rare episode where half the fun is the previews of the NEXT episode! Ok, so lets recap here:
1. Gaeta provided the thread that kept the entire storyline together. His song was the sad tone of the entire thing as it all was shot to hell. I think Alessandro Julliani (Hope I spelled his name right) out did himself. Not only is he a talented actor but he can sing and sing WELL! As I said in my earlier post, I am pretty harsh on singers. This guy is the real deal. He has MAD skills and shold look into music as a second career option.
2. I like that Roslin and Lee are starting to connect and we see Lee coming into his own. We can also see from the nasty look that Zarek gave him that he is not happy about Lee not being a puppet.
3. Anders has guilt and he should. He shot a guy in the leg for doing nothing but following his orders. It’s not often that we find a truly innocent victim in this show but Gaeta was one. I look forward to seeing how both men cope with this.
4. A quick shout to Baltar. The expression he had while looking in on Gaeta was pained and I am finally beginning to belive in the power of the G-Man! He has finally become a decent human being.
5. In short, this was a GREAT episode. No filler here this week! Oh, and as for why Natalie die: D’Anna is coming back. Can;t have TWO women in power suits roaming the hallways now, can we?
NOW, for the preview:
ROMO IS BACK!!!!! How frakin awesome is that!? Whatch for this line: “You’re a beacon of hope. Unfortunately, hope is the LAST thing we need right now.”
Lee is sworn in!!! Holy crap! Is Lee about to become President Adama??? How will that affect the relationship between dad and son and Zarek and Lee? Might be interesting to watch…
And the one thing that made me stand up and say WHOA!!! Tigh DECKS Adama????? HOLY FRAK!!!!!
Next week is definately going to be one for the record books.
May 17th, 2008 at 6:55 am
Great episode. Truly great. Some observations I’ll post:
1. Saul ordering weapons hold and saving Colonial lives on the Cylon basestar. I think this is very important. It seems that the Final Five have some connection to each other (once they’ve awakened, that is). Since Anders is on the basestar, it’s very likely Saul is sensing that presence.
2. But Adama on the other hand. That look he gave Saul after the “weapons hold” was uncanny. And now that he knows the Final Five are in the Fleet, I believe the Admiral is suspicious of his old friend.
3. Gaeta. So much to say here. His amputation had me wincing. Poor Gaeta, such a brave soul. But the leg might be a possible plot point later on. Follow me here. If Gaeta is suspected as a Cylon, the Colonials have his leg. They can examine the tissue and blood for Cylon traces. The problem is that the Colonials believe Baltar’s Cylon detector was a hoax. If you remember correctly, it wasn’t. It actually DID identify Boomer, but Baltar tampered with the data.
But Gaeta. What about Gaeta? Well, this episode might give clues to his being a Cylon. Notice how the Four react when Anders says, “He sings.” And listen to Gaeta’s song in the very last scene. The word “awake” is very prominent. It may be nothing, but then again, it may be everything.
4. The Central Resurrection Hub. I’m beginning to think Matt is right about the “harbinger of death” line. This might be it. Starbuck bringing real death to the Cylons. I think there’s probably more to it, but it’s certainly feasible.
5. This episode had me asking myself, “what would I do in that position?” The Fleet nearly shoots down the basestar, Lee confronting the President, Natalie planning to take hostages, Natalie later rearranging the plan, the Quorum planning a no-confidence vote. It’s a lot of conflict, and some of it hurts to accept. But seriously, I think all of these factions, if you will, have very rational reasons for making these decisions. It’s so human it’s mind-boggling.
6. “Your respect and your friendship means–”
“–Frak.”
Great moment there. Truly well-written.
7. Hera. The big question. What in frak is Hera? How does she fit in to the great plan of the cosmos? And I have no answer at this point. I’m dying to see how this plays out. It does seem to me that she is wanting fellowship with the Cylons.
8. Natalie. She is shot twice by Sharon. I see this as a possible parallel of earlier shootings. Boomer shot Adama twice. Cally shot Boomer twice. Now Athena shoots Natalie twice. The clincher here is that Natalie is not seen dead. She just slumps to the floor injured. Maybe she did die, but it’s not seen or said. Next episode will tell us all.
9. So what’s the Hybrid going to say to President Roslin? I wonder myself.
I hate to leave it at 9, but that’s it for now. Good episode. Good comments, all!
May 17th, 2008 at 7:19 am
I’m thinking that the fact that the Hybrids are doing whatever they please now is further proof of the Cylon becoming individuals and starting to gain freedom of will. And I think the Hybrid jumping is simply an act of self-preservation, I mean she was basically nearly killed by being unplugged, her first instinct is to get away from danger, I mean the Colonials did come close to attacking the Base Ship.
Oh, and I’ll bet 20 green ones that the Hub does get destroyed and the Cylon lose ressurection ability. I feel this is an inevitable event that needs to happen, to blur the lines between Human and Cylon even more, preparing them for their merging and integration at the start of the new cycle of life on Earth.
May 17th, 2008 at 7:22 am
“The 6 said to Adama that the Basestar could heal itself. New and interesting idea. This could be why the Cavils didn’t notice it was still a viable ship. It only has one spar with a piece missing now. (Not withstanding the holes in her hull.)”
I guess you didn’t notice my post to Matt in the page about why Cavil may have missed the Basestar. I rewatched the episode and posted about it: “If you pay attention to when the Raptor goes through the field of the remains of Basestars, Anders says that due to the debris, the Dradis readings were all over the place (it’s right after the jump into the field occurs, where instantly, Anders notices “multiple contacts”, and then after that he says the line I’ve mentioned). And we can assume that the Cylon’s Dradis is the same. And, unlike “Star Trek”, there isn’t an exterior view for the larger ships, so the debris from two of the Basestars may have covered the third one. And, for all intents and purposes, Cavil may have believed the third one was completely destroyed and it was after he and his ships left did the Basestar in the episode moved into the orbit of the gas giant (which is where Starbuck and Co. find it).”
May 17th, 2008 at 7:28 am
Also, I noticed something from the teaser: It looks like the group come across a graveyard of ships in the next episode (or maybe the remains of another Battlestar, judging by the Viper that was seen. I’ve got a feeling we’re about to find out the true meaning of “All of this has happened before, all of it will happen again.” - CB2001
@CB2001,
I also noticed that, but I couldn’t put my figure on it. I think you might be on to something. If it is a graveyard of ships, maybe its from another tribe, or the thirteenth tribe? I don’t think the thirteenth tribe was chased by cylons, but with that said, I’m pretty sure from what I’ve read at the BSG Wiki that after the twelve colonies arrived on their new homes, they entered a dark age and lost a lot of their technology. Therefore, it is entirely within the realm of possibilities that cylons both Humanoid and Centurion existed on Kobol and knowledge of their existence was lost during the exodus. Just a theory :-). Honestly, no one can without doubt, what or who the Gods were. What did the lords of Kobol look like, or where they not present in a physical form?
May 17th, 2008 at 8:22 am
In ‘Faith’ the hybrids tells Kara that ‘the dying leader will know the truth of the opera house’. Natalie is a leader, who may be dying and not dead. To that point, when Natalie is telling the quorum that it was no accident that Kara found them, Natalie also says “She(Kara) asked me to lead my people and I accepted, no matter what the sacrifice”. And in that speech she was talking about how death is what makes us whole. And that death, that is to say the ability to die, is the starting point of their destiny, their future. That’s what I got from the end of Natalie’s speech.
The hybrid from razor calls cylon activation “awakening”
“To one day please just have her wake” is what Gaeta sings twice right at the end. So last cylon a woman? I mean come on, Gaeta’s beautiful singing has to mean something.
Love this show, so much fun
May 17th, 2008 at 8:46 am
I missed the episode so I planned, to watch it at Scfi.com, but it wasn’t there…….I hope they just havn’t had time to update their website and nothing else.
May 17th, 2008 at 9:05 am
For anyone interested in picking them apart, here are the lyrics to Gaeta’s song (thank you, close captioning, which really enhances the BSG experience):
Alone she sleeps in the shirt of man
With my three wishes clutched in her hand
The first that she be spared the pain
That comes from a dark and laughing reign
When she finds love may it always stay true
This I beg for the second wish I made too
But wish no more my life you can take
To have her please just one day wake
To have her please just one day wake
Not sure of the meaning, but the camera lingered on the book in Laura’s lap as she began talking to Baltar. It was Searider Falcon, the book Adama brought in to read to her during her treatment.
I’m not much of a poster, but love reading all of your observations and theories and, of course, look forward every week to watching Matt and Nat (and her operatic way of saying things). Thanks to all.
May 17th, 2008 at 9:17 am
I wish Dee had more of a part. I thought that was pretty lame “Have you seen my child?” “No…I haven’t…” “Ok bye!”
I feel like Dee and Tyrol should have both followed Athena.
Also, did anyone notice right before they plugged in the Hybrid, that scene when Baltar said something like “God’s will be done” and Roslin told him to shut up, the music they were playing was the song Gaeta has been singing. At first I thought his singing was a red herring, but I thought it was interesting to hear those undertones in the normal music as well.
Also, I can understand why Athena shot Natalie (Have they even referred to her as Natalie yet? If not, then I have a good feeling that she will survive the shots, because thats just a waste if we only know she is called Natalie from RDM).
Lee was getting less annoying this episode, I’ve been getting sick of him and his role to solely oppose the President on every decision made. I hope that he doesn’t really become President, but I think its inevitable.
Also, the Hybrid yelling “JUMP!” at the end was beautiful. I would have never seen that coming, and I was so blown away. I’m glad Natalie was shot, not that I don’t like Natalie, but the way that they were building that up I was wary as to which way it was going. I expected something shocking to happen on the Basestar, and I was hoping that Athena’s story wasn’t going to just have her put the gun down.
For a second there I thought Tyrol wasn’t going to help Athena, and I got really pissed off at what kind of a person he had become. Tory, on the other hand, I’m glad the President called her out.
Does anyone else think that Gaeta was singing about D’Anna? When he said “three wishes” that was just a simple little reference to her number. But at the end “to have her please just one day wake.” I don’t think that RDM would have that end the episode with no purpose at all.
May 17th, 2008 at 9:27 am
What really got my attention was the “666″ on the pictures that Hera was drawing. Was this a reference the “number of the beast” and that the devil/demons have some part in the story. Sometimes they were random and sometimes they seamed to be in sets of threes but it seamed pretty clear to me what they were trying to show.
The Devil was hinted at in the original BSG series episode “War or the Gods” when they find Count Iblis’s crashed ship at the end of the episode. In the aired episode the colonials just look in the ship and gasp so it was left up to the viewers to make up what they think they saw. But from the Wikipedia entry on Count Iblis “In a deleted scene from the episode, some of the dead crewmen in Iblis’ crashed ship are shown. They exhibit devil-like features, including cloven hoofs and pointed ears” Also the beings of light say that he was one of them, but that he rebelled which was an obvious parallel to the story of Lucifer. And when he is shot by Starbuck, Iblis turns into a demon like being. Many of us are convinced that RDM will use the being of lights in some fashion so why not include this part of the story line.
Some other demon indicators I’ve noticed:
Head six always wears red ie. “the color of the devil”
In Precipice Chief asks Teigh what side they are on. Teigh says to Anders and Tyrol (two other members of the final five) that “We’re on the side of the demons. We’re evil men in the gardens of paradise. Sent by the forces of death to spread devestation and destruction wherever we go. I’m surprised you didn’t know that.”
Couple of theories/ideas
1. The devil/count Iblis is all the head characters. It is obvious the head characters can take any form as we just saw with Balter seeing head Balter instead of Head Six.
2. Maybe the devil is the Cylon God as some other people has speculated.
3. There are seven regular models that represent different facets of humans per RDM (seven sins?)
4. The final cylon is a model that rebelled and was cast out similar to the Lucifer story.
May 17th, 2008 at 10:02 am
This is one of the greatest episodes this season! There are now so many plot twists coming in to get you thinking and keep you on your toes. So Gaeta is singing, does that mean he’s a cylon or is it just to add to the tension of the episode? Starbuck once again seems to have a little of her old “shut the frak up and pay attention” attitude back. Tigh is wondering where the hell his life is going to go from here if he gets found out, while the other cylons seem to preoccupied with their own lives to give a rats ass.
Not even going to contemplate tying things together, I know by now that I’ll never be right and that the writers will pull something out that was so strikingly obvious and yet we all missed it!
Loving the BSGCast, keep it up guys. Got the link from Adalla and BSGPilots. Oh, and I’ve known Adalla for a couple years now, yes he always has that much to say and more
May 17th, 2008 at 11:00 am
I noticed a lot of people asking why Gaeta got so much screen time. He was the linchpin that held this episode together. He was the common fear and pain that everyone was feeling. No, I don’t think he is the final Cylon, although I find it absolutely hilarious how everyone starts attaching monumental signifigance to a character if they have as much or more screen time than one of the A-listers and don’t die.
This episode was very good and I am gflad to see things picking up speed. I will tell you all this though (And I don’t mean to sound like the robot from “Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy): I have seen where this show is going and it will all end in tears. There won’t be any wonderful or bittersweet endings like “All Good Things” or “What You Leave Behind”. No folks I think Ron and Dave are going to leave us very sad and depressed when this all ends because if there is one thing I have learned watching this show all these years it’s this:
THERE ARE NO HAPPY ENDINGS IN BSG.
May 17th, 2008 at 11:01 am
I put together everyone’s thoughts together. Looks like this
1. Caprica six is pregnant by Tigh.
2. Lee is sworn in as VICE president.
3. In “Faith” where Laura is on the boat and she sees the people on the shore line, that’s “Heaven”. I bet its Earth and Earth is where everyone is going! So everybody is going to die!
4. Here are the lyrics to Gaeta’s song:
Alone she sleeps in the shirt of man
With my three wishes clutched in her hand
The first that she be spared the pain
That comes from a dark and laughing reign
When she finds love may it always stay true
This I beg for the second wish I made too
But wish no more my life you can take
To have her please just one day wake
To have her please just one day wake
Gaeta is singing about D’Anna or the Final Cylon meaning the final is a women. At the end of the song it says “to have her please just one day wake.” The words “Script” was written for the EP and put to music before the EP was even shot.
5. The camera lingered on the book in Laura’s lap. It was Searider Falcon, the book Adama brought in to read to her during her treatment.
Searider Falcon
The raft was not as seaworthy as I’d hoped. The waves repeatedly threatened to swamp it. I wasn’t afraid to die. I was afraid of the emptiness that I felt inside. I couldn’t feel anything. And that’s what scared me. You came into my thoughts. I felt them. It felt good.
6. In the story line they haven’t referred to her as Natalie yet. She will live long enough “to learn the truth of the Opera House”, they never said she was in the visions, she can still learn about them and what they mean. It’s just a waste if we only know she is called Natalie from RDM.
END OF LINE,
JP - TX
May 17th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
Hi first time poster here.
Charles i like your question 6.
“6) What will the fallout be from Athena shooting Natalie and the base ship jumping away?”
The jump happened after Natalie was shot. Adama may think that the other cylons found out and ran away. So Adama may not jump to the conclusion that the cylons betrayed them. Looking at the preview it looks like they are trying to save Natalies life. Most likely so they can use her to get the president back.
Is anyone else find it strange that Athena wants to kill six? You’d think she appreciate Caprica SIx for helping her get Hera off the basestar. Also she knows Caprica Six wants nothing but to protect Hera.
-Tyler
May 17th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
JP, I think you are right about Six being pregnant by Tigh. Personally, I find it awesome! The old bastard still has some spunk in him!
It just might be Lee being sworn in a VP instead of President. That could make it complicated for Adama (The Admiral type) to say screw you to Zarek because then it would just look like he was trying to get his son placed in charge (and therefore make himself a dictator through him).
As for who the final Cylon is….. I have some theories but I won’t say anything yet. I will discount the following characters though:
Adm. Adama, Roslin, Starbuck, Lee, Gaeta, Cally, Dee, Baltar (sorry Matt) and any other ’supporting character’ (aka Redshirt) who gets more than five minutes of screentime and doesn’t die.
JUMP!
May 17th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
I very much doubt the Cottle discovered that Caprica 6 was pregnant by Tigh, simply because it would be a child of two cylons and if Tyrol and Boomer did not have a child after a relationship spanning a couple of years then I doubt Tigh and Six will after a few weeks.
I suspect that Cottle discovered recent bruising due to being Hit or evidence of recent sex, both of which would lead back to Tigh and lead to Adama being angry at him
May 17th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
wow laura has really changed asking tory to like bendover like she was her whore i used to see her as like the most compationatet humen being obsesed whit the number of survivors now shes just cynical and self centerd and all that whit starbuck excluding the possebillety that sehs been to earth like it was imposseble i just dont like her anymore
May 17th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Whoah,
it just keeps getting better and better… This episode had me literally and physically onthe edge of my seat and it had my heart going to boot. The story is getting some real weight at the moment and I feel like they have intentionally led us even further away from what will draw all the strands together in the end.
-> The Opera House:
there was more than one… in Season 2 there was the Opera House where there were some Visions going on…
-> The Obsession Six/Hera
what is Six’s fascination with Hera. But even stranger - the other way around. Where did that suddenly come from? Six has been obsessed with the Human/Cylon baby since she showed it to Baltar in the Opera House on Cobol… You folks didn’t forget that, did you?
-> The second Human/Cylon Baby
why is there no story line here, or why is the child of Tyrol(Caly of no consequence as of yet?
-> Style
Baltar sporting the Muskateer look, eh?
Did anyone notice, that the Cylons have w a y better furniture than the Fleet?
-> Dreams
Roslin is the final model? The dream-thingy this episode gave that impression. Why was she simultaneously having the same dream as Six? Did it feel to you folks like they could actually sense each others “real” presence in these dreams?
-> Music…
Why does Gaeta sing? Why does Gaeta sing something which is apparantly “revealing”? What’s the connection between Cylons and Music?
Did anyone else catch that the mixed in “All Along The Watchtower” again?
There was definitely something brewing up in this episode that was pieced together from things we have seen in past episodes or in past seasons. The whole opera hous thing has gotten me very anxious and the human/cylon baby thing as well. After this episode I am almost convinced that the final Cylon will be Roslin or Gaeta…
I shall close with these earnest words: what the —- do they expect us to do until next week?
Cheerio,
Ripley
May 17th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
Hey guys, I’m reading Bear McCreary’s blog and he had some pretty cool stuff to say, this in particular.
“I’m here for two weeks helping out with Weddle and Thompson’s new, unusually musical episode. I am observing on-set instrumental performances and even composing original music each night, churning out sheet music pages for the next day’s shoot. And they are allowing the show’s score to evolve in an unprecedented manner. Frak, this upcoming episode may perhaps redefine the role that music can play in narrative.
But, I’m getting ahead of myself. You guys won’t see that one for a long time. I’ll tell you all about it when the time is right.”
Also, apparently his wife had composed the melody to Gaeta’s Lament as a birthday present, and he thought it fit perfectly
May 17th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
Small thought here.
The hybrid in Razor said that he would live again in ways uncertain. The hybrid of the baystar in the current plot said that the children of the one reborn will find their own country. RDM said that the hybrids are cylon 0, aka predating the 12. So maybe the baystar hybrid was telling us that the cylons will find their own country.
Small thought there.
May 17th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
Another tremendous show — maybe one of the top five, certainly one of the top ten. My friend Sigmund Fleud (a true Geek like me in every sense of the word — come on Sigmund, I know you are just waiting to post something), thinks it is better than 33 and Exodus.
Question. What do we think would happen to Cylon nation if 6/Natalie had a true “Near Death Experience”, went to Heaven and returned? How would that make YOU feel about their humanity? How would that make Natalie feel if she went to Heaven and saw human and cylon alike? Would she start to give up a lot of other secrets of the Cylon world?
I think RDM has a whole lot of big brain thinking going on right now. He must crack up reading our theories of the BSG universe!
Kirk out.
May 17th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
Hey “Connor Trinity”, you are not alone, I noticed that as well.
In the video section of SciFi.com there is a listing/button to watch the episode on Rewind just like the last 5 weeks as usual, but this time when you click to be taken to the Battlestar section of Rewind, this episode is missing.
So, from another fan and customer of the SciFi sponsors, I’m EXTREMELY upset at SciFi for screwing the fans out of this episode:(
Such a shame for the loyal customers/fans whom CANNOT watch it due to work, etc.
May 17th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
Adalla,
I posted yesterday:
“The Hybrid making a jump was just the continuance of her purpose. When they pulled the plug she was probably already planning the jump as a matter of protection protocol…the fact that she did that first thing was just her picking up where she left off. That was a true Holy Frak moment for sure!”
I agree with you that the Hybrid’s jump was automatic…she was unplugged just as she was going to jump away anyhow to protect herself and her ship. When they plugged her back in she just picked up where she left off. I would have suspected an alterior motive had the Hybrid interacted with Roslin or Baltar first. As such this will probably be viewed as a kidnapping by the Colonials. The Colonials will save Natalie so they can use her to negotiate getting Roslin and company back.
May 17th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
What is happenning has happenned before and will happen again.
The first cylons were built to fight the wars between the colonies. They rebelled. The new centurions were built to fight the wars between the new cylons and the humans. They will rebel. That has happened before and will happen again.
Gaeta is not the fifth cylon, he is the count Ibus (original series bad guy). He is trying to prevent the humans from aligning with the cylons. Why, I haven’t a clue. Gaeta may think that he can kill the remaining lords of kobol (the final five, ironic since they were the original five).
Gaeta is the 13th lord of kobol who escape with his cult to earth. The final five are from earth since they went insearch of ibus long ago. They cast ibus from earth (Oddly, the grecko-roman cults were replaced by the belief in a single God.). Ibus went to the colonies and started the cycle which is unfolding. Ibus has killed the other seven, which he memorializes with his seven cylon models (he revels in their destruction by making copies as pawns (side theory has the human-cylons as prisons for the souls of the original lords of kobol, resurrection is the continuing prison and destroying the resurection ships is destroying the prison)).
The final five are not like the rest. The cylons never made them. They are the returning lords from earth. If ibus can kill them, then they too can be cast into human-cylon shells that are empty at present. Count Ibus may just yet be the catalyst for all that has happened and will happen again.
On another trip….
Ty has one eye, Gaeta has one leg and the one armed man killed …. wait wronge show.
As an aside, the scene where six saves baltar from the blast when caprica gets nuked, the six there is not caprica six or any other six. That is the head six, only a supernatural being could shield baltar from the fire ball and radiation. So, the first head six scene is that one.
May 17th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
Hi All,
What an amazing episode! A few comments first having read through the comments here:
Anders thinks Gaeta is one of them, because he tells the others that Gaeta is SINGING
I think seeing the lyrics to Gaeta’s song would help–and what an absolutely amazing and beautiful voice he has! it is so difficult to sing w/such beauty acappella (sp?)–it was very moving. I love how Roslin says how tragic it was that something so beautiful came out from something so bad. I have to say for a cancer patient, she looks more beautiful than ever when she’s wearing those scarves on her head.
Also, Roslin gives it to Tory for sleeping w/Baltar–bad, bad Tory–I guess all that cylon no feelings thing isn’t working now that Roslin has given her the cold shoulder, and doesn’t trust her as much.
Question: Lee is asking Roslin if it’s true about Baltar telling the truth about death? or the one god? I was confused by that–but she does seem to be having more respect for Lee; how does he become VP ahead of other quorum members? Maybe because the others are tired, as he tells Roslin, they’ve given up hope; the one thing Lee seems to be getting back w/his new job. He really is fulfilling his destiny–
Kara seems more at peace than ever, even with what the Hybrid said to her. I guess we won’t be seeing her with Lee anytime soon since they just jumped away.
I’m also finding it hard to believe that Baltar is preaching the truth now? I don’t get it…I miss crazy Baltar seeing 6, I hope that is still going to be happening. I think that he is going to be the one who finds out that Tory is one of the 5; I bet the mid season cliff hangar is going to be Dianna identifying the 5, and Anders in front of Starbuck and Roslin. I also agree with whomever noticed the pattern in the Boomer and Sharon shootings. i feel like there is something about Athena shooting Natalie that has brought something, I don’t know what, full circle.
So, let’s see:
Boomer shot Adama. because of her programming.
She was shot by Callie, who later married and had a child w/one of the FF. Callie killed her because she was in love w/Chief, and could not believe what Boomer had done to the Chief. Some think she killed her out of jealousy–no! She wanted to kill her for what she did to the Chief. This is one of the reasons she goes nuts when she finds out about that Tyrol is a cylon. Hey anyone would go nuts, she killed the enemy for deceiving someone she loved so much, and seeing him hurting so much, was painful for her as well. Then realizing she killed a cylon for a cylon, and marrying and him and having his baby!
Athena, an 8, and “sister” of Boomer, marries a human and has a child w/him. Then we have Athena walking by Tyrol, barely seems to notice or look at him, and just seems to assume when she asks him to get Hera that he’ll do it. She instinctively still trusts him. Which leads me to believe that the FF are meant to protect humanity and cylons who are near-human so to speak, that’s why they have been leaders in the fight for humanity–whomever said that, is correct.
She shoots Natalie to save her child, a hybrid.
I know there has to be something there, but I have no idea what yet..
I was crushed about Natalie; she’s awesome and my favorite 6 as well. Tricia H looks her most beautiful as Natalie. I think she can resurrect still, as they haven’t blown up the ship yet? Or maybe they save her…
Also, I did not even think of Tigh having impregnated Caprica 6?! I guess how else would Adama be yelling at Tigh.
I can’t wait 2 weeks! I am just so excited to Romo may be coming back!
Oh and btw, the Baltar cylon detector does work because he lied about Boomer as Head 6 told him too. So we know Starbuck is not a cylon.
Athena
May 17th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
you’d think someone would question Tigh’s regular visits to Caprica 6’s cell, and also the fact that she beat him to a bloody pulp. I wonder how he explained that one?
May 17th, 2008 at 6:35 pm
fao TickedATSciFi, I was pretty miffed that scifi.com didn’t have the new episode up as well. if you’re looking to get your fix check out http://www.sidereel.com, they have the new episode up. I only use this site as a last resort as some of the video streams are pretty dodgy.
May 17th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
I sure hope Tigh didn’t impregnate Caprica. Like… seriously? Those two are frackin’? I thought she just punched him and kissed him while he was dazed out.
May 17th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
Ciel - I sure hope Tigh didn’t impregnate Caprica. Like… seriously? Those two are frackin’? I thought she just punched him and kissed him while he was dazed out.
I’m pretty sure they’re fraking! Caprica is a VERY sexual person. I doubt she ends things with a simple kiss.
What I think is reallly intriguing is if Caprica is pregnant, then she is pregnant with the first FULL cylon child.
May 17th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
I’m still reeling from the hybrid jumping off with Rosiln, Baltar, Helo and the nameless pilots. I mean, the baseship did a blind jump there, right? It’s not like the hybrid had calculations made up in the instant she was plugged back in. and with next week’s teaser showing them going through a baseship wreckage that has a viper floating in it. I hope I’m wrong, it be so anti-climatic and frakked up if they did it this way, but I’m going to say it:
The baseship jumped wrong and got smashed into chunks, killing everyone on board. Helo, Rosiln and Baltar are dead.
There, it’s said. I want to be wrong. But someone has to point out the worst case scenario.
May 17th, 2008 at 7:30 pm
Athena- In a scene that was scripted for “Crossroads”, but was not filmed. It would have shown that Tyrol and Athena became friends. The scene would have had Tyrol with Nicky, finding Athena with Hera at the spot where Tyrol is seen in Part 2 when its revealed when he is also hearing the music. Basically, that section where Tyrol is seen at actually vibrates, and the reason why both Athena and Tyrol take their kids there because the vibrations apparently help the little ones fall asleep.
What does that mean? It means that Athena trusts Tyrol just as much as he trusts her. So, when Athena asked Tyrol to get Hera out of the way, she may have been asking him because he is her friend. So, it’s not just instinctively.
May 17th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
How come the Final Five appear in the Opera House on Kobol, if they are supposed to be from the home of the 13th? i.e Earth?
May 17th, 2008 at 8:14 pm
Adalla, maybe the Opera house on Kobol was made in homage to an Opera House on Earth, and since they would look identical we’d never have known… ?
~Matt
May 17th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
Adalla - How come the Final Five appear in the Opera House on Kobol, if they are supposed to be from the home of the 13th? i.e Earth?
I still think there is a possibility that the home of the 13th may mean the home of the 13th cylon. Perhaps the 13th cylon comes from Kobol.
May 17th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
thee_immortal_one, when Six saves Baltar in the blast on Caprica, I feel like she essentially schisms into two version of herself that are not both aware of each other:
1) “Head Six that Baltar perceived to be the same woman in a non-corporeal form that claims to be an angel of God
2) Caprica Six that downloads into a new body with no knowledge of Baltar’s Head Six
During the New Caprica arc, I had hoped we would see some interplay between the two Sixes that Baltar percieved as the same one, but alas, none…
~Matt
May 17th, 2008 at 8:26 pm
Hey Matt:
Can I get honorable mention for the headphones for politely redirecting the poor lad that dissed our co hostess with the mostest? LOL!?
The big question is…why an Opera House? What is the significance of that building….? and, aren’t the Hybrids the way they are because they saw the final five and lived? What keeps them from telling everyone who they are?
May 17th, 2008 at 8:33 pm
I think the hybrids are the way they are because thier consiouness has spanned the space between life and death. She experiences so much at once that the words that come out of her mouth appear as ramblings but are more like dream imagery.
As for the Opera house. I just had a theory, that popped into my head. There has been a theme in bsg that everyone and everything has a sound. Head six says that life has a melody that becomes your existance once played in harmony with gods plan. What if the opera house is the origins of the music of the human race. What if each race has a sound. OOOORRR what if gods plan has a sound and the 5 play that sound through the opera house that now exists in the space between life and death which are seen the the president’s visions. Just an initial theory but to me it makes sense.
May 17th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
Ok, I haven’t yet taken the time to read all the posts (this week’s or last’s) to find if this is an original thought, but I had a thought about part of the hybrid’s prophecy:
“The dying leader will come to know the truth of the opera house…” might actually be “The dying leader will come, to know the truth of the opera house…” which would simply imply that Roslin would be coming to the basestar, but not necessarily that she would ever truly understand said truth of said opera house. That would be a kick in the ovaries for Roslin if she found herself on the far shore of the river, screaming “What the frak was the deal with that frakking opera house?!?”
May 17th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
Interesting theories everyone.
As to the significance of the Opera House Adam, I believe it’s the whole metaphor of music. Life and existance is like a bunch of notes that when played in harmony produce a beautiful symphony. Remember Baltar talking about the tuning up of an orchestra? The music of the Final FIve? The singing of Gaeta? It is all connected to the deepest message of the show.
An Opera House is where music and art are done, and where a message is conveyed through beautiful music.
Mark my words, the very last scene of Battlestar Galactica will take place in the Opera House, with a majestic music piece made by McCreary that is going to blow the rest of what we’ve heard to date out of the water. And the scene is going to be so beautiful and spectacular to behold, taht we’ll end up tearing up and holding our breaths in awe.
No, this is not a spoiler, it’s simply my speculation, but my mark my words…and what a beautiful way to end the series that would be…glorious music, glorious life forms, a glorious revelation of truth, all while taking in glorious sights and sounds…
~Adalla
May 17th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
I’m still digesting, but who wants to bet that the Samuel T. and Kara Anders won’t be coming to dinner at Felix Gaeta’s crib. Even if Allesandro didn’t have such a beautiful voice, that scene in sickbay would still have had me crying like a baby. Ron Moore you are an evil evil motherfraker.
May 17th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
Adalla - Very interesting. Your analysis was the same as mine.. only more articulately said. haha I think your right about the ending. It will most likely be in the opera house or opera house related.
May 17th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
Adam- Why an Opera House? Simple: The origins of Opera came out of an attempt to resurrect a Greek drama. The play “Dafne”, composed by Jacopo Peri, is the story of the god Apollo falling in love with the eponymous nymph, Daphne. And seeing the show ties into classical greek history and literature (i.e. Starbuck’s last name, Thrace, is Southeast Europe at the time of the Greeks, the 12 Colonies belief in multiple gods, Oracles, etc), it makes sense in that context because the first “opera” was an attempt at reworking a classic story. Surprisingly enough, is what the new BSG is, a reworking of a classical tale. So, the use of the Opera House may be a metafictional reflection of what the show really is: an opera unto itself.
May 17th, 2008 at 10:16 pm
“I agree with you that the Hybrid’s jump was automatic…she was unplugged just as she was going to jump away anyhow to protect herself and her ship. When they plugged her back in she just picked up where she left off.”
The Hybrid kept saying before she was unplugged “FTL drive failure remains uncorrected” so it seems somewhat unlikely the first thing she would be would be a jump based on what you described.
May 17th, 2008 at 10:47 pm
Who are the candidates for this woman Gaeta sings about?
D’anna is at the top of my list. She is “sleeping” while boxed, to be awakened. Alone she sleeps, well she must be pretty lonely, only line to be boxed. In the shirt of man, I think this means in the body of a human being, referring to the higher essence of this being, beyond the mortal flesh.
It might be Starbuck, as she said herself it feels like she is watching herself from a distance, not really experiencing life as before. This could refer to “shirt of man” and sleeping could be a metaphor for not truly being in her true state of existance (as a being of light?).
If we are to take sleep more literally, then D’anna best fits this song. If it’s more metaphorical, then any higher being constrained by mortal life in the physical realm of lower conciousness levels could be considered sleeping.
The only real guess I have is that Gaeta is singing about D’anna somehow.
May 17th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
Hunter- It’s possible that her unplugging and replugging served as sort of a reboot to all the systems, which may have corrected what was “uncorrected”. It’s like rebooting a computer system that’s locked up. When you press the reset button, the computer boots up and acts normal again (unless its a very serious problem). The same could be said about satellite receivers. A majority of small problems (including a receiver that is locked up) can be solved just by pressing the reset button or unplugging the receiver from the electrical outlet for 15 seconds and then plugging it back in. From what I can tell, the unplugging and replugging of the Hybrid is no different.
May 18th, 2008 at 12:49 am
Hi Everyone,
Can I just say that having stumbled on this website recently I almost look forward to reading your posts as much as I do watching the show. Almost.
It is good to hear other peoples views on what is happening and where we are heading.
I would just like to throw something out there: Is Natalie 6 now classified as a dying leader?
Cheers
May 18th, 2008 at 1:56 am
OK, perhaps its a glitch in my software but I still like the idea that there’s no deeper metaphysical meaning to Head Six (or either Head Baltar come to that). Baltar — and Caprica Six — is so fraked up with guilt and fear that the only way he can function is to come up with a very dangerous imaginary friend. That doesn’t mean he’s not still extremely smart, highly observant and capable of odd intuitive leaps.
A stretch? Well, he is someone who was so obsessed from an early age with ‘passing’ as Caprican, that he totally obliterated his native accent, left home as soon as he was able. Don’t you think Baltar was the kind of man whose re-invention came with the constant fear that someone would find out that he was just a dirty little prole from an Aerelon dung-heap with ideas above his station? His whole life was an endless performance, and how much would it take to tip a man like that over the edge to psychosis. Perhaps (unwittingly) being instrumental in the near-total genocide of the human race would do it. And what better form than that of the woman who played the player like a cheap fiddle. That’s got to sting.
I wouldn’t be quite so literal-minded about it, Adalla. Felix is singing the blues while trying not to look at the space where his right leg used to be — so who could blame him. He’s never been spared the pain of having his trust and faith thrown in his face over and over again. What has he loved that ever remained true? He was a conscientious officer, and got taken for granted. He hero-worshipped Baltar (and spare me the adolescent gay jokes, folks, I’m not in the mood) — and the Cylon detector was a scam, and he certain didn’t make much of a career move leaving for New Caprica to become the President’s CoS. (That was hell before the Cylons showed.)
He risked his life to help the Resistance — while he was being cursed as a traitor and targeted for assassination.
After the Exodus, he was shunned and reviled. On the authority of the President, he was almost murdered by an extra-judicial death squad made up of three Cylons, a crazy woman and a guy who got smacked down in a bathroom by one of Baltar’s Babes, a knuckle-dragger and a jock.
He tried to kill Baltar, twice, and failed.
He committed perjury, and Baltar got off anyway.
And now he’s lost his leg because he was obeying an order, and Starbuck’s man-ho finally figured out how to take the safety off of his weapon.
Because nobody can keep a secret on this show, how do you think Gaeta is going to react when he finds out the Final Four have been dogging him ever since New Caprica?
May 18th, 2008 at 2:08 am
Natalie 6 is at the hospital bed. If u pause the promo when they show her she has a white tube on her. I thinks she will not die from that gun wound.
cya
May 18th, 2008 at 2:33 am
True Mclogan,
But she is dying at the end of the episode and a dying leader will find out the truth about the opera house. She could be the first Cylon to have a near death experience and return to her own body, not just resurrect. Will she too see a boat or something else?
Cheers
May 18th, 2008 at 2:48 am
This was a great episode!!!
BUT most importantly it made me think more about the harvenger of death Kara. I think i now get it Kara will lead humanity to earth, but like the scripture says the dieing leader will die before they get their- Kara brings Roslins death!!! It just snapped when you see the confrence with the Qurom and Natalie and Kara starts seeing things as she looks at roslin. THen going to see her in hospital, its obvious shes made connection also
May 18th, 2008 at 3:49 am
Hunter,
That was what she said yes, however, she then suffered a traumatic shutdown…when she was reawakened I feel she jumped from the “attackers.” Hell, that’s what i would do… :p
May 18th, 2008 at 4:49 am
“Mark my words, the very last scene of Battlestar Galactica will take place in the Opera House, with a majestic music piece made by McCreary that is going to blow the rest of what we’ve heard to date out of the water. And the scene is going to be so beautiful and spectacular to behold, taht we’ll end up tearing up and holding our breaths in awe.”
but will it end on a good note or a bad note? i’m gonna say bad.
May 18th, 2008 at 5:43 am
I love reading all of this speculation. It really gets the brain working.
I want to say this.
A lot of us are making comments concerning the role of Count Iblis and the Beings of Light in the new series. There is one problem here.
Ron Moore has stated in an interview (and a serious one, at that) that he didn’t have any plans for those. He just didn’t see any way to bring them in and make them work. I doubt we’ll ever see them.
RDM said he had created an intricate mythology without them anyway. Bringing them in would complicate the mix. Of course, he’s looking at the entire picture. We’re filling in the gaps as the weeks progress. It’s easy for one of us to see where they could go. But RDM said otherwise.
Sorry, folks. For the time being, we need to consider this a real possibility.
May 18th, 2008 at 7:15 am
Well, this is on a light note, but pretty cool. Last night, I went to the Police concert with my son. Part of the stage lights consist of a long band -just below the rafters and stretching the width of the stage- made of many, many rods which monochromatically change color throughout the show. At one point, the band turned red with odd symbols jumping about, like moving, encrypted information. We simultaneously turned to each other and yelled “Basestar!” It was very funny - you just can’t escape BSG.
I have also noticed that every time I see a movie produced by Universal and that music starts up, I get a little BSG flutter.
May 18th, 2008 at 7:23 am
trueedge2097- Like all authors, Ron Moore is capable of changing his mind on certain details and what direction the story goes while its being worked on. At the start, he may have not intended to use them, but may have changed his mind later on in the series (which is true to many details within the story that Moore has confirmed, including the ending of the show). Also, you can’t really trust anything that the producers or actors say about the show when it comes to upcoming events. Why? Simple: They’re not going to reveal something that may be a surprise. But the mythology of the show, though intricate, may have included the Beings of Light and the Count Iblis character. Why? Because we do not know the origins of humanity with the tale. We have yet to hear an etion on how humans came to be. The only thing we know where humans came from is, “Life here began out there.” It could be possible that the Beings of Light and “Count Iblis” may have had a hand in it.
May 18th, 2008 at 9:12 am
CB2001 -
I’m certainly willing to concede that. If my memory serves me right (forgive me if it doesn’t - I’m having some trouble locating the interview), that interview took place on the outset of filming the first few season 4 episodes. So that would mean that RDM’s statement is probably accurate.
The only point I’m really making is that we need to look at everything BEFORE we speculate. We have the episodes and such, but we need to look at official statements, too. That’s what education really is.
I have to disagree with you on that “not revealing something that would be a surprise” bit. They’ve revealed a lot about upcoming events, as Battlestar Wiki tells us. Yet we continue to be surprised. There’s always something that will intrigue us. Heck, they could probably tell us everything and we’d still be surprised.
So, yeah. We should consider his statements at least circumstantially true. If proven wrong later, I’ll still be pleased.
May 18th, 2008 at 9:37 am
What an episode! Gaeta’s singing, the hybrid jumping after being plugged in, Boomer projecting in the Galatica, and the whole opera house thing! What was Baltar doing in the opera house vision?
So, this episode was another brilliant display of cinematography. Faith was great, and this one was just as good if not better. The team working on BSG are definitely pulling out all the stops. Every scene with Gaeta singing gave me chills; it was an excellent plot device! He has a great voice, but you could hear it shaking with emotion. I might as well mention here that the covers under his leg-stub (and the stub itself) looked like they were CGI. They just didn’t look real, and That was a stupid move for the special effects crew. The could have done what Forest Gump did with lieutenant Dan and cut a hole through the bed, but ah well, that’s just the filmmaker in me getting critical on a lazy mistake.
Another interesting thing is Boomer (isn’t she always?) and Hera. Now there’s two things that could have happened. She could have been projecting like the other Cylons do, or it could have been another plot device (flash backs). I’m going to go with projecting because it’s more interesting. Perhaps that moment of fear for her baby caused her to revert back to some Cylon thing. The wall she built up between what she is and what she wants to be (Cylon and Human) came crashing down. The bricks: her friends, memories, and experiences all broken and in a moment of panic, she protects her child from what she believes to be harm. Which brings me to Boomer shooting the Rebel 6. What could this mean for the rebel Cylons? There can’t be any trust between them anymore, their leader was shot on the Galactica. Although it was Boomer that shot the 6: it was another Cylon. It will be very cool to see if the writers have anything interesting to make about that.
So, the opera house visions. We know that Roslin, Boomer, and the Caprica Six all share the visions. These visions are also interconnected, so anyone in the vision is having it. Now, WHY THE FRAK is Baltar in the opera house? I guess it explains why he knew that Roslin was having the visions, but that doesn’t explain why he was there. Heres another thought. Just before Baltar stepped out of the dark and we could see who he was, didn’t he look like one of the shadowy cloaked figures that the D’ana saw when she had the vision of the final 5 in the opera house? something to think about, but if Baltar turns out to be the fifth, I am going to be pissed. it would be such a cop-out, and the amount of irony in the idea of the most human character of all of them being a Cylon just makes me sick. So say we all? Good.
So, where does the Basestar jump to? Earth? The resurrection hub? We won’t find out till the next episode. I am eagerly waiting on the edge of my seat for this!
May 18th, 2008 at 9:42 am
DAmn It!
I allways forget that it’s on, so I only saw the end of the episode “Jump”.
And sci-fi hasnt uploaded it yet!:(
I’m so sad, I think I gonna get the BSGCast recap before I see the ep.:(
Why was Gaeta Singing?
May 18th, 2008 at 10:23 am
I dont think so. ROslin has always been and will always be the dying leader spoken of in the scriptures. SHe’s the only one who’s been dying over a long period of time. All other characters have died pretty quickly or recovered quickly. Roslin is the only person who has been continually getting worse and worse.
gaseous, I think it’ll on a good note, but having followed im