BSGcast: 4.10 “Sine Qua Non”
Without which not indeed, Ron…. after skipping a Friday for Memorial Day, we are treated to a VERY contravercial episode. We’ve heard someone say it came close to Woman King as his least favourite episode. Ouch. Matt loved it, Nat not so much, but what about you?
~Matt + Nat
May 30th, 2008 at 12:18 am
Hi BSGcast and other BSG addicts.
.
I just saw Sine Qua Non on the internet and I have to say: I’m a little bit disappointed.
“Faith” was good, “Guess what’s coming to dinner” was really good, so I had great expectations.
Romo is back and that’s good
But I didn’t believe the story. Don’t get me wrong. It was not that bad, but this episode couldn’t match my expectations.
:::SPOILER:::
Adama sr. gets punched in his face by Tigh, later he trasferes his command to Tigh just to sit and wait for Roslin in a raptor??!!
Sorry folks I don’t bye it.
Let’s hope for next week.
bye
May 30th, 2008 at 12:30 am
p.s. maybe this whole thing with Adama makes more sense when we see the later episodes.
May 30th, 2008 at 12:59 am
:::SPOILER:::
i think this is a tandem episode, running parallel with the next one, which would be The Hub, i think. we know what’s happened in the Fleet, and we have ideas of what happened to the Baseship, like Pike (Gonzo?) jumping back to the Fleet following some sort of engagement, and the empty Vipers being seen covered in blood (human? skinjob? raider? centurion?) alongside equally undamaged but seemingly quite dead Raiders.
makes a form of sense, having one episode to cover the Galactica focused story arcs, and one to follow the Baseship focused ones, presumably with Husker (anyone else find him saying that aweome?) in his Raptor being the tying together point
May 30th, 2008 at 1:56 am
First off just to note Sky One shows new episodes every Tuesday not Friday so we have to wait until next Tuesday (or Wednesday if you rely on torrents) for our next BSG Fix of the Hub.
First off the Caprica 6 pregnancy revelation, I know alot of people predicted it, but I was still shocked when Adama told Tigh that Caprica 6 was pregnant, especially as this would be the first Cylon:Cylon child. This also allows for Helo and Cally to be the final cylon. It has started me wondering, if the final five are actual cylons in the sense they were “built” but rather some form of cylon program or spirit that has “infected” otherwise normal humans. It also brings Caprica 6’s child in as a final cylon candidate.
Then we come onto the IMO pointless Romo Lampkin and Lee Adama who will be President subplot, while I liked the Romo and Lee interaction and “Head Lance the Cat” I think that this interaction could have been done just as well in a different subplot and perhaps spread over a few episodes. And since when has 2 people been a committee?, I am sure that Zarek was impressed when Lee told him that his committee comprised of him and his best bud Romo have decided that the acting president should be Lee Adama. Speaking of Zarek while someone as politically astute as him should have realised straight away that he should make Lee acting president, I am starting to feel sorry for Zarek since this is twice he has had to give up the presidency despite being the legitimate candidate due to Adama not wanting him there.
Moving on to Adama the true Core of this episode was on his relationships with Roslin and Tigh and I thought this was very well done, though I do wonder how long it will take for Tigh to declare martial law again given the new president is Lee Adama who has at one point held a gun to his head
The main problem with this episode is that we learn very little about what happened on the baseship aside from that they probably destroyed the resurrection hub, given that this was the story that I was most interested in. The decision to not have any scenes on the baseship at all was a grave dissapointment. I also feel that given the weakness of the Lee Adama B plot that initially the plan was to have this episode and the next one as one single episode or as an extended episode but at some point the decision was made to split it into two (having read spoilers for the Hub it sounds like there is a pointless Helo based sub plot in the episode supporting this theory).
If Sine Qua Non had been shown back to back with the Hub or with the normal wait I think this episode would be viewed more favourably but as it is I can understand the dissapointment with it even though the A plot is IMO a good one. I personally would give the episode 7/10 but I can see why people would rate it lower
May 30th, 2008 at 1:59 am
[...] http://www.bsgcast.com/?p=48 [...]
May 30th, 2008 at 4:12 am
Finally the flood gates are open!!!!!! I’ll just post my intital thoughts from another forum. Spoilers abound, so all you good boys and girls who have waited look away…..
Ok I’ve had a chance to see the episode again. I’ll just jump in and start with the problems of the episode. The first thing that rubbed me the wrong way was how they went about putting Lee in the presidency. Namely the problem is Romo Lampkin. It’s like they were trying to beat our heads over and over with Mark Sheppard’s last outing in BSG. The whole back and forth about looking for the best candidate was stupid. We all knew where this was heading. And then they are like “hey let’s throw Mark in a scene with Eddy for the hell of it.” I’m sorry but they just tried too hard to capture the essence of Sheppard’s performance from last season. And what was with the whole “I need you to die Lee ” bit about? Way to ruin one of the best characters in the show writers!!!! Ultimately the whole Romo mess is what brought the show down. I will admit the Head kitty thing was cool and I loved the Jake cameo, a great nod to the fans.
Meanwhile,poor Zarek’s role is shoved aside and the guy just caves without a fight. The Hatch was shafted. I think the more interesting story would have been a Zarek/Adama clash. Granted, we already have the Tigh/Adama clash. But think how Adama would of reacted to Zarek with his state of mind about Roselin…. I bet Zarek wishes he took Lee out way back when.
The other thing that fraks this episode is that there is no resolution to Jump…. You are really distracted the entire episode without knowing what happened to Roselin and Baltar. I was thinking about this and the show runners might be geniuses. It’s almost like the absence of this story is like the same phantom leg feeling that Gaeta is going through. Hence the name “Sine Qua Non” . It might explain the odd feeling of the episode if that was their intention. Or I just might be giving them too much credit. Still if true, the episode goes up a notch in my book. Not by much though.
Ok what worked was the Tigh/Adama story. OMG, I so called it, Tigh got Capirca preeggers!!!!! I’m guessing he was seeing Ellen when it happened. I wonder how Baltar will take the news. Man it raises so many question about the final five. It definitely gives the F5 being hybrids more evidence. Then you have the showdown between Adama and Tigh. Man that rocked. I loved the end with Adama talking about rebuilding the ship. It seems like kind of a metaphor about having to heal the fleet over and over again. Great stuff.
Then you have the whole Adama searching for Laura arc which is reminiscent of the 1st season episode “You Can’t Go Home Again” when Lee and Adama wouldn’t give up the search for Starbuck. This time you have Starbuck being the voice of reason. A really nice touch. Bill can’t let this one go though. Finaly you have the shocker of putting Tigh in command so Husker can go off to search for Laura. Didn’t see that coming. How frakking cool. It almost makes up for the oddness of the episode.
Two final notes.
Nat. bought the farm.
I really feel for the people that just loved this character. They gave a sliver of hope in the preview, then dash it all to bits. I’m a bit indifferent about the Rebel leader’s death.While I loved another variation of Six, the Sixes I know and love, Head and Caprica, are the first in my heart. God I hope Head six returns soon. Note that when Natale died it looked very much like Larura’s dream. My guess is that she crossed over to the next realm. Very interesting, when you consider she a cylon. They had me thinking Cottle was the final cylon the way he was holding her hand, think Anders and the eight. Hehe, You have to give RDM credit for trying to cast suspicion on everyone these days.
Then you have the fallout with Athena. The confrontation with Adama and the ending about letting Athena be with Hera was a great bit in the show. Sadly this story point is overshadowed by the awkward Romo arc. Notice Athena humming the lullaby Boomer hummed way back in the first season with the raider. There is something going on with the music. Between the Watchtower cover, Gaeta’s lament, and the lullaby I think we all need to be paying attention to the music.
So in essence the show is a mixed bag. If they would’ve chucked the Lampkin stuff they might have had another great episode.
May 30th, 2008 at 6:16 am
OK first off no I have not watched it yet, still waiting till tonight but unfortunately I can’t resist but read the spoilers. I’m just too sucked in to the whole puzzle that is Battlestar.
From hearing about the head cat that kind of makes me question my theory about the head characters being the beings of light. Thus far I have only told Matt and Nat this theory; I might put it on here eventually. (It is very deep and thoroughly investigated. There is a lot to be learned by watching the original Battlestar.)
I am looking forward to watching tonight and can’t wait to sit down and tear it apart looking for more clues.
Wonder what happened to the rebel Basestar?
May 30th, 2008 at 6:50 am
Random thought…
What if Natalie isn’t dead?
For all we know… a Cylon resurrection ship may have been in range of the Colonial Fleet. At the time of death, the Rebel Basestar probably would not have had a chance to destroy the Hub. There’s a chance she might come back…
Just a thought.
May 30th, 2008 at 7:00 am
Dear Lords of Kobol! Right when I started thinking that finally Battlestar Galactica was back on track as far as quality, back to it’s Miniseries/Season 1 and Season 2 standards, we get what I must say is the worst episode of Season 4! 1 out of 5 Stars from me! Yes folks, I’m not happy about this one.
I’ll keep it short (or try to). Warning, this is going to be my most negative review of BSG to date!
a) The whole Lee story arc continues to be a nightmare for me. I truly am coming close to hating this sub-plot in BSG. It is done so bad, Lee’s part is so horrible (not Bamber’s fault, he’s a great actor as he proved in the previous seasons) the writing is just horrible. And in this episode, this story arc was at it’s lowest quality to date. The whole Romo/Lee scenes were pointless, very poorly written, and a waste of two such amazing characters, and two such amazing actors! Such a waste. I really didnt even get the point of the arc, like I didnt even understand what Romo was trying to do. He was against Daddy Adama giving the keys to the Fleet to son Adama? What was his deal? Either way, it was a total waste of precious BSG screentime. There is not one thing I liked about the entire Lee-Romo arc, which was like 80% of the episode.
b)I feel sorry for Zerek, he got pushed out of the Presidency too fast, Lee was obviously the only reasonable candidate, and the fact that Lee was pretending not to know this, pretending to “find a stuitable candidate” made it all worse. The Quorum just talks, no action. If they were to choose a candidate, where is the committe? Shouldnt it be appointed by the whole Quorum? How to Lee self-appoint himself as the committe? How in the world is Romo invovled in any of this? He’s a lawyer, not a politician! Bah.
Anyways, the everything that had Zerek, Romo, Lee, and the Quorum in it was absolute garbage, and it has forced me to name this as the worst episode of Season 4.
c) The Romo – Admiral Adama exchange on the hangar deck. Another incredibly poorly written and directed scene, pointless, again a terrible waste of two incredible actors and chracters. It ruly came out of nowhere that scene, didnt belong there, was poorly done.
d) POOR POOR STARBUCK. What sacrilage to destroy her character wish such poor writing. Her hands cupped behind her back, her role no more than what they’d have given a “stand in” actor, one of those that they dont even mention the name of, who appear for only 1 episode. Such horrible writing of the the scenes with Starbuck in it. She seemed so life-less, neither the Viper-ace-cigar-smoking-superior-officer-punching-Kara, nor the crazy angel Kara that we got to know in Season 4 so far…wtf? Either develop Kara fully in a new direction or leave her be, dont toy with us like that!
Ok, so that’s all the bad stuff, which unfortunatley comprises like 80% of the episode.
There was some great stuff of course, but it’s so little of it, that it gets lost in the sea of horrible writing.
The few good, but absoutely excellent parts of this episode:
a) By far the best scene in the entire episode, and one of the best scenes in Season 4, is Natalie’s death scene. And within this scene, the most breath-taking moment was when we get a glipse of her Cylon Projection of the forest, that she shares with all the other Six models. What also shocked me, is what an amazing job the costume/makeup department has done in making Tricia look almost like a different person. Natalie looks so different than Caprica Six, it is so amazing. And she is my favorite looking version. Her beautiful green eyes were bloodshot, then from her beautiful face the shot transitions to the beautiful green forest, and the sound also goes to that “wooshing” sound…it was just a perfect breath-taking scene. Of course, I’m so terribly sad and disappointed Natalie dies. They tease us so much in this show, I truly thought the fact she didnt die right away meant they’d have her survive the shot…but I guess it wouldnt have been realistic. May the Lords of Kobol take care of you Natalie! So Say We All!
b)My second favorite scene, is between Adama and Tigh. And it’s not their fight that I liked most (thought it was very nicely done), but rather when Adama realizes at last he is no longer objective, and resigns. That was something I truly did not expect, and possibly one of the best plot twists in Season 4. And btw, when I say this is the worst episode of Season 4, it’s because of how poorly it was done and the stupid Romo-Lee-Zerek-Presidency story arc. the Tigh-Admiral Adama arc, and his resignation was very well done. Too bad it was only a small part of the ep. Anyways, what I liked was how “human” the scene was between Adama and Tigh, the embrace, their exchange of words, Tigh’s shock. Beautifully done. I also love how Adama went back to his Husker call sign.
And that’s really it, those are the only 2 things that were really good in this episode. The rest was garbage.
After seeing the results of Lampkin’s return, I sincerely hope Romo never ever comes back to BSG again. I also hope the writers come to their senses and dont make such horrible episodes again, we really have so few left, we cant afford such bad eps. I hope they figure out what they want Starbuck to be, cause right now as I said, she’s like a stand in, not even a supporting actress. Either give her the screentime her character deserves or dont!
And for the love of the Gods, please do something about Lee Adama/Politics/Quorum/Zerek story arc. It’s really horrible, it really has potential, and you are wasting it. Give the Quorum more power, give them more screentime, and please do something better with Lee….
Gimme the Base Star/Demetrius story-arc back quick! Or I’m gonna drown in the worst-than-mediocrity of the Colonial Fleet story arcs…
And I pray to the Gods I never have to write such a negative review of a BSG episode again…
~Adalla
May 30th, 2008 at 7:09 am
Oh and I forgot…how absolutely ironic is it that one of the Final Five Cylon has the supreme unchallenged military authority (real authority) among the remaining 40,000 or so humans in the universe?
May 30th, 2008 at 7:17 am
TighFighter,
That’s not the next realm Natalie is seeing. It’s the Cylon Projection the Sixes choose to see. Much like the Threes like to Project a Church.
May 30th, 2008 at 7:19 am
Hehe Jim you remind me of my SW prequel days. No matter how many times I promised myself I wouldn’t spoil myself…. I caved in the end. I almost feel bad posting the review. Over in the BSGPilots chat the last few nights it’s been driving me crazy not being able to dish about the show. There are a few people who haven’t seen the episode and I didn’t want to spoil the episode for them.
Spoiler Alert…..
All I will say is that don’t read too much into Head Kitty. The whole thing is a little ambiguous and could very well be just a delusion. You’ll see what I mean when you watch the episode.
Hey if you want to come on over to BSGPilots. We’d love to hear your theories. I joined about two weeks ago and have been having a blast getting my BSG fandom on. The link is in my name. In the last week or so a couple more Casters, CB2001 and Adam, joined up and we are having tons of fun in the chat room. That invitation goes out to anyone who’d like to dish about the show. On show night we have a chat that starts at 11:00 P.M and goes well into the night. Trust me, you’ll have a great time. You should’ve heard me and CB going at all night trying to figure out Begin of Light connects. Great stuff. Anyways enough gushing, I hope to some of you guys there tonight.
May 30th, 2008 at 7:58 am
You’re right about the projecting Adalla, but mark my words the Cylon projecting,dreams,visions,next realm and what have you are all somehow connected. Of course I will eat such words when I turn out to be wrong.
Damn dude you brought the hammer down pretty hard on this one. I agree with most of what you said, but I guess I’m a little more forgiving and I still have hope with the Lee as President arc. I just hated how we got there. Personally if I just cover my ears and go “I’m not listening” during the Lampkin arc the rest worked for me. You do make a valid point about Kara. Again another character shoved aside so they can parade Mark Sheppard around. What happened to Kara’s vision quest to earth? At the very least they could’ve played up the voice of reason parallel with “You Can’t Go Home Again.
May 30th, 2008 at 8:01 am
Ive already posted my thoughts in the other thread but I have two words to say about this episode : BAD EDITING.
May 30th, 2008 at 8:29 am
I ask for those who have already seen the episode before the airing of it in the U.S. to PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE(!) hold back on spoilers until the episode is shown in the U.S. (or at leas to please label your posts with spoiler warnings).
May 30th, 2008 at 10:41 am
CB…Matt and Nat warned about spoilers for each of the commenting threads here, and I think if you dont want to be spoiled to not read this thread.
It is after all a thread discussing Sine Qua Non, if you have not seen it, you should be reading it yet.
May 30th, 2008 at 11:18 am
I hated this episode! It was so far removed from what I know as ‘Battlestar’ I couldn’t believe it – I felt like I was watching a bad episode of Stargate Atlantis.
I agree with most of the posters above re: the Romo, Lee, Zarek arc. It was worse than poorly written it was downright stupid. Why make Lee the President? To have a President that Adama would accept? Well in the end Adama resigned so what was the point? Zarek would have been a far better foil to Adama or Tigh for that matter. Imo this was a story arc which needed much more development time to make it work – but they shouldn’t even have bothered.
If fact they shouldn’t have bothered with most of this episode as none of it felt right.
Why make Caprica 6 pregnant? How does this further our understanding of what Cylons are? And besides don’t we have enough babies already. The Adama – Tigh scenes when taken as a whole didn’t work either. Adama accuses Tigh of near treason in one scene and then hands him the keys in the next – wtf!
There is only one redeeming scene in the whole episode – and it’s when Adama confronts Athena – that was pretty awesome.
You know over the past couple of weeks I’ve been watching some of the best episodes from series 1 and 2 and it makes me wanna scream when I can count the number of ‘good’ eps this season so far on my thumbs. What the hell was Ron Moore and his writing team doing when they were on their retreat?
The next two episodes have a lot of making up to do.
So Frannin’ say we all!
May 30th, 2008 at 11:23 am
I’m pasting this from BSG Pilots just like some of my fellow comrades above!
I’m going to start off with the one major and obvious flaw this episode has: they didn’t deal with “JUMP!”. That’s enough to bump it down to ‘average’. We waited a week and a half to find out what happened, it was the foremost thing on everybody’s mind when the speculation for 410 started taking a pace and they flipping left it.
It was silly having a two week gap and sillier still to have the UK air it first as noone will be watching sci-fi when it shows. If you’re a channel that really only has one good show on it and you let it air first on another station then by all means sabotage your viewing figures.
Ok, enough bashing for now. I liked the fact that this episode slowed the pace a little and gave some room to breathe. The plot was simplistic despite not making sense in some places; it was really the stupid man’s episode (no offence to those of you who like it a lot). Lampkin is one of my favourite characters, I’m ashamed of how they tarnished him this time round. It just wasn’t the character I came to know when he pulled the gun on Lee. There was no need for it; we all know he’s unstable but he isn’t a madman. They played him like he was a third-rate character, inconsequential.
I quite enjoyed the power struggle plot right up until Zarek backed down, I mean seriously…Zarek backing down?! The only good that will bring is if he begins to go into his old habits again and we see some of his trickery in another episode. I seriously hope this comes about, it’s enough to break Lampkin almost irreperably, it’s quite another to do the same to Zarek.
I loved the reflection of season one with Adama’s irrationality. I needn’t say more I agree with TighFighter.
I enjoyed having Tigh search for Roslin while old Husker sits in his Raptor. Very romantic having him wait there…still not sure what he’s doing there though. I did think that Tigh assumed command a little hastily. I can still hear him echo the words, “I never wanted command.” He’s being given more than command now he’s been tossed a pair of Admiral’s pips!
Nice homage to Adama becoming Husker. That’s about as far as the good points go. To be fair this wasn’t the worst episode but it was out of place to say the least. I like the Tigh – Adama scene I think for the most part it was well done. The writing was good but there was one part that threw it off for me. When Adama mouths off to Tigh he thrusts his head forward. It was only a single move and only happened once but it just seemed a little unatural. It was a delicate scene and personally I found that one unatural movement easy to topple parts of it. I’m sure there are thousands of fans who don’t give a sh*t with this minor inconvienence.
I honestly believe the only point to this episode was to try to keep viewers for when they finally reveal what this episode failed to touch. Sci-Fi have probably hurt their viewing figures more since everyone knows how mediocre this showing was. I’ve only had the chance to watch the episode once so I’m sure there are reviews to come that’ll surpass mine. Adalla, I can’t see how 410 deserves a second lowest rating but I’ll be reading when you post.
May 30th, 2008 at 11:25 am
Please ignore the last sentence of my post!
May 30th, 2008 at 11:36 am
Adalla- I guess I’m glad to not really be reading them. And I didn’t notice the spoiler warning.
May 30th, 2008 at 11:38 am
While my initial reaction to this episode was confusion, dislike, and one of aversion… after watching it again, I liked it more. Having now watched it six times, I like this episode far more than I would have imagined when I first saw it. It is still the weakest episode so far this season, editing and framing wise, but the performances seem to pop on subsequent viewings. It is just not like the last few BSG episodes we have watched and we are spoiled by great emoting and camera work (as well as editing). This one has moments that are a bit too much on the campy side. Still, a good episode that does forward a few important story elements for the future. I give it 3.5 out of 5.
May 30th, 2008 at 11:40 am
I agree with all of Adalla’s points up above. Having just watched the last two episodes of Lost in the same day, the contrast between good storytelling and bad storytelling couldn’t have been more apparent. Important things happened but none of them seemed to have any weight behind it. I hope this was due to the writer’s strike – which now scares me for the remaining episodes that were shot before the break. When you have only a few episodes left each one becomes that more important.
And the Saul/Adama story. Geez. “So Saul you’re a drunk, you’ve been hanging out with the cylon that was instrumental to the destruction of the colonies, had unprotected sex with someone that’s been with Baltar (disease city), got the cylon pregnant, punched me, last time I left you in charge you fraked up big time and do you know how hard it is to find model ship parts in space. – well no problem, I’m sure you’ll have better judgment in the future- well here’s the fleet and what’s left of humanity – see you soon.”
Starbuck seams to be CAG. I would think everyone would still be suspicious of her. Not to mention she was the one that brought back the basestar that kidnaps the president. I think he’s on the basestar but did anything ever happened to Anders for shooting Gaeta?
All the Adama scenes were hard to watch, you just want to say “just pick yourself already and get it over with”. (He obviously went to the Dick Cheney School of Presidential Search Committees). Lee becoming president could be interesting but there are better, more dramatic ways to get him there. I saw a lot of missed opportunities of tension with Zarek or some other rival on the quorum.
Romo was pointless. The romo/adama scene make you want to pull your hair out. Two great actors and this is what they do with them?
May 30th, 2008 at 11:45 am
Adalla… 1 out of 5? I can’t take you seriously anymore if you stick by that. Maybe you need to watch it again because it was not even close to being “Black Market” bad.
May 30th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
Hmm.. I liked it. The biggest problem is not the acting or the writing.. its the time.. 42min is far to little for this show. I mean we would have seen more Zarek vs Lee if there hade been more time, same goes for Lee, Romo, the committee and how they got to became it. so i “stand beside the stream” and dont follow it and say, I liked it and it got me really waiting for the next episode. keep the good work up!
May 30th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
I think it was The Natale tease that pushed Adalla over the edge.
Pavlov- I had the same thought about the writers strike. If you think about it Sine Qua None means “without which there is nothing”. My god, don’t tell me RDM was trying to make some kind of political statement about the Strike. If that is true, I am sorely disappointed in Moore. I hope the last two episodes don’t suffer the same fate.
Don’t forget to stop by BSGpilots to chat in the LaunchTude after the show tonight.
http://www.majesticsites.net/bsgpilots/index.php
Hope to see you there.
May 30th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
TighFighter
I just signed up, look for me as dfiredawg
May 30th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
I disapprove of Head Kitty. The whole Romo’s gone crazy thing just didn’t work for me, I actually didn’t understand that the cat was in his imagination for a brief moment before I pieced it together. Also, why does he just randomly visit Papadama at that one part
The Quorum part was really good before the opening credits, but then it was revealed that they served no purpose but to simply whine. I didn’t realize that the Colonials would connect Natalie’s shooting to the moment the basestar jumped. Its obvious, it just never really hit me.
The fact that Lee had known he was the right candidate but pretended to search for someone else really pissed me off. He should have just suggested that to Zarek in the beginning and told the VP that he would still have a say. Why was the Search Committee solely Romo and Lee too?
Athena was a waste in this episode. Give me some Boomer minus the Cavil sexy time.
Didn’t Zarek step aside as President after New Caprica? If thats the case, why was he so b****y about rightfully getting the title now?
Natalie’s death was beautifully performed. Did anyone else think there was an allusion to Cottle holding Natalie’s hand like Anders holding the miscellaneous Eight’s hand right before death? It seems like every time they show that a Cylon is going to do and not come back they do it smashingly (sorry I couldn’t find another synonym
). When Gina died it was this awesome buildup, They have done some excellent work with really getting the viewer inside of the character’s head, like Cally all dazed and confused. This time it was when they should what Natalie is seeing through the face mask, and then blips of the forest scene coming through.
The Adama/Tigh brawl was so awesome. Perfect dialogue, I’m glad that they forgave each other.
I feel like the editing in this episode was great at some times and others horrible. Like I mentioned above, the Athena in the brig scenes that would sneak in for a few seconds annoyed me. Then there was one part when Athena was talking to Adama about the visions, and the visions blipped in to the viewer. It just looked stupid IMO. We’ve seen that frakking same Opera House vision plenty of times now.
I have no problem with Starbuck being CAG again, but I agree with Adalla on her role in this episode. Also, I’m a little confused about how everyone is just so accepting of her.
Jake showing up was kind of stupid. It was a blatant gift for the fans, but it just kind of annoyed me. Did Lee honestly search through the whole damn fleet to find this dog for Romo? Who has had the dog since New Caprica? When is Jake getting his spinoff series?!
Oh…and where the hell is the fleet going? Roslin is an idiot for not trusting Kara from the beginning, they’ve had all of these other mystical things on the show, and most of them have just pointed the fleet in the direction to Earth. The Ionian Nebula was a roadsign to Earth, and from there on Kara Thrace returns from the dead. I still can’t believe that Roslin honestly said “No…I’m gonna just wander aimlessly…kthanksbye…”
My least favorite episode of season 4, but I feel like this is just part 1 of the epic that is The Hub. Certainly not one of the worst episodes, but not one of the best. I think it just wasn’t that good because we had to wait 2 weeks from the Hybrid screaming “JUMP!” and we want more Basestar goodness.
May 30th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Well… remind me who is in command of the only warship in the fleet and has some previous form when it comes to military coups?
Yes, Foundry, he’s backed down for now. Whatever else you say about Tom Zarek he’s a pragmatist who isn’t going to get himself shot, or plunge the fleet into open civil war, because its his turn. Look at it this way, after the exodus from New Caprica he had every right to say to Laura Roslin “I was Baltar’s veep, so I’m next in the line of succession. All the best, now get your shit out of my office before I airlock your arse.” If my memory serves, he was quite blunt with Roslin: He might have had the Articles of Colonisation on his side, but there was no way he could govern effectively without military support. Support Adama wasn’t going to give him them, and sure isn’t going to provide now. (Before anyone brings up Baltar, I’ll remind folks that Gaius Baltar won an election. The Old Man could (just) swallow that.)
I sure wouldn’t be planning to redecorate Colonial One any time soon if I was President Adama. Zarek is dangerous enough as a fairweather friend. But as an enemy who feels as if he’s been betrayed by a protege…
If that’s the case, Moore should get out of the television game and become a psychic. Wasn’t the front half of the season pretty much nailed well before the strike?
Yeah, and the President’s a crazy bitch with terminal cancer and a messiah complex. She did a deal with convicted terrorist to regain power. Gods above, you really think the Cylons would have been a little more choosy about who they decided to wipe out.
The Galactica wasn’t exactly the starship Enterprise before the attack, I really think he’s not exactly spoiled for choice.
May 30th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
Well it didn’t suck.
I liked the fight; I think that was the best part. I think it is all just something leading up to next week. I love the previews for next week. We now know Diana is back, Laura is not dead and I think she is the final Cylon. Either that or Anders was standing next to her when Dianna said that. OHHH it is so gonna be a great show next week. I can’t wait.
OH and were gonna need another Tall ship model.
May 30th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
CB2001,
For the record, the spoiler warning is in the thread description which Matt and Nat wrote. The very last line reads “That being said, let’s open discussion on the episode, and beware spoilers!!”
But no biggie my friend. Just make sure you dont read any of it until you watched the episode, pretty simple
Pavlov’s God and RailGunner, I think you did a better job at expressing my feelings and thoughts about the episode than I did in my own post. I agree with all the points you made.
DarthRazorback,
Yes 1 out of 5 stars and worst episode of Season 4. I stick by it. In fact, every time I watch it again, I find more bad things than before. It was just a horrible episode overall. It had some good plot twists, but it was horribly executed.
And if someone had said, ok lets kill Natalie, have Adama get obssesed about Roslin, have Lee become president, and Tigh take command after Adama hands over his Admiral pins, I’d have said heck yeah, great stuff! But it’s the “HOW” of getting to those plot points that was very badly done. Well except the kill Natalie, I’d have never killed her…she was my favorite Six.
You know what’s really funny? My parents only got to wach the last 20 min of the episode (that includes commericals) and they asked me “who’s that guy?” (pointing to Lompkin) and I just laughed, and I said he’s the lawyer. They asked, why is he there, I said I dont know, I didnt really understand it.
Then they saw Kara , and they were like “didnt she go to Earth? What is she doing now” I laughed again, and I’m like yeah I know, I told them “she’s helping them get to Earth” lol.
The best thing about this week’s BSG, was the preview for next’s week’s episode…
May 30th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
YOU KNOW ABOUT THE FINAL FIVE, WHAT YOU DON’T KNOW IS THAT YOU ARE ONE OF THEM
I will seriously be so pissed off if thats true, not because Laura is a FF but because Scifi is full of a bunch of idiots that make the previews.
May 30th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
last weeks previews were so much better than the show, not worth the wait
May 30th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
No thoughts on helo being the final ceylon? If Tigh and 6 can make a baby why not helo and athena?
May 30th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
I liked it, despite its flaws. And it did have flaws – Lee asked Romo why he’d been locked up in his room for so long, and I know the answer. He’s been watching the Matrix over and over, and it’s infected his speechifyin’! Morpheus got away with it, because we knew going into it that Matrix characters liked to spend five minutes saying nothing at all, but I didn’t appreciate it coming from a character who, just last season, was the height of cool.
However, I think some people, if they rewatch the episode, might notice something they didn’t notice before. The complaint is that the search for the interim candidate was a foregone conclusion and thus a waste of time – but the truth is that Romo ALSO knew from the beginning that Lee would be the candidate. He even tried to bring the subject up with Lee a few times, in an attempt to dissuade him from that course of action. In the Quorum chamber Lee interrupts him just as he’s making the “Roslin never sought power either” speech. He had the catbag with him every time, and if you watch it knowing he will pick Lee, and that in picking Lee will come to believe that he has to assassinate him, it casts his speeches and his behavior in new light. When he writes Lee’s name down on that board, it’s not that’s it’s finally just now occured to him. It’s that he’s finally run out of options, been unable to change Lee’s mind, and now has to go do what he was hoping to avoid doing.
The question then becomes – why in the world did Romo want to kill Lee to begin with? Well, it’s not that he wanted to – what he wanted was a reason to NOT kill Lee. The cat was his last tie to his dead family, and even that was stolen from him by his fellow survivors. I imagine Romo was suffering from a massive “why did they die, when people like this survived?” complex, and it colored his vision of what the fleet deserved in a leader. He needed Lee to convince him that there was still a chance things could workout in a worthwhile way, but couldn’t really believe it.
All a bit contrived? Yes! But when Romo tells Lee that he had them cross 47 names off the list of possibilities, both pretending not to know who they’d ultimately settle on, it DOES say something about Lee’s character that has, perhaps, gone unremarked upon. The very same thing Romo earlier implied Roslin was guilty of: wanting power without appearing to want it, refusing to admit that desire even to herself. The ambitious politician in sheeps clothing. Romo didn’t pull the trigger because in the end Lee managed to convince him he really wasn’t after power for its own sake, though what he did say made it clear that, yes, he also knew they would ultimately pick him. Looking at the parameters he’d given Romo for their search, it was clear that the deck was stacked greatly in his favor. Echoes of Roslin’s attempt to steal the election? We’ll see. I think that’s what Romo was afraid of – another letdown. “Hope is the last thing we need,” he said.
This was ultimately an Adama episode, and the Admiral in particular was very strong. The Tigh/Adama scenes were very strong. The Adama/Sharon scene was very strong. The Tigh/Caprica scene… not so strong. It just didn’t work for me. I think it was the paired “There are too many lives at stake, lady” and “I don’t know what you’re up to, lady” remarks. They rang false.
Another thing that jarred me, and some might have just the opposite opinion, was Adama’s “I can’t live without her.” Well, we all know that. But I think it cheapens the moment by having him come right out and say it. The charm of the Adama/Roslin non-coupling is that they’re cast in the star-crossed lover mode where tragedy will inevitably seperate them and so they refuse to indulge in it. Yes, there’s also the conflict-of-interest and balance-of-power consideration at work, and they are both professionals. A deathbed scene with Roslin passing away, and a teary Adama leaning in close to admit, for the first time “I love you” or even a somewhat generic “I don’t know how to let go of you” just as she’s dying would have killed me. Just killed me. Maybe that’s a cliche all it’s own, though, and the writer’s have something with a bigger or less soap-opera punch planned.
Ah – and the last thing that springs to mind. After Hera’s creepy little “bye bye” in the last episode, I felt the camera lingered on the back of her head in Sharon’s cell just a little too long. About thirty seconds into I was getting creeped out again, and half-expected her to pull some movie-monster trick like spinning her head around or making her eyes glow. “Bye bye, mommy!” as she Cylon-pimp-slapped Sharon’s head off.
May 30th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
Oh, and the preview, which I just now saw… Looks awesome. But Roslin jerks her head to the right. I suspect that someone, probably the person D’ana is addressing, is standing next to her. Who? It would certainly be ironic if none of the hybrid children produced so far were actually hybrids.
These spoiler-intensive promos have got to stop! It was exciting enough just seeing D’ana back, but showing her with Cavil and then later talking about the Final Five was excessive. After the Cally thing, I don’t trust scifi to know where to draw the line. But still, I believe the big spoiler in next week’s preview is a red herring.
May 30th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
There was only one problem with this episode and that was the trailer from last week. It gave away too much and spoiled the episode. Most of the major plot points were shown in the teaser for this episode. I think they might have spoiled next weeks episode, but I hope not,
This episode was a transition episode and the producers decided to keep it simple. I’ll have to look closer to figure out if I missed any obvious clues as to whats next, but this episode was really for the fans and not for newbies. I shudder to think how good this one could have been if they didn’t have to slow the story to explain what happening over and over.
Romo with Adama on that catwalk was a great moment. You could see Adama mentally stepping off his pedestal and coming back down. That was cool.
Quick question… When Sharon got pregnant she knew automatically. Does Six know? and if so was that the reason behind the love question? Does she love Saul, What about Baltar, and where are we going with this? Will Tigh release his favorite Cylon now? When Baltar returns what happens to Hera?
Zarek once asked the question “Will there ever be a time when the fleet will be commanded by someone not named Adama?”. We’ve seen the answer.
May 30th, 2008 at 6:35 pm
Anyone who watched this week’s episode by downloading the UK version online, should really re-review the episode by watching the US airing. There is a clear speed-difference. The UK versions seems kind of… hyper. The pacing felt off. Yet the US version seems much more in tune with what we are used to. I suspect this has something to do with the format difference (NTSC vs PAL). I watched the US version tonight and saw none of the problems I noticed in the UK versions. Seriously, not one.
May 30th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
Well, then you stick by it, Adalla. I will stick by my statement that I cannot take you seriously if you rate it that low. That is beyond ridiculous. It is a complete overreaction. This was the weakest episode of this season but it was still good. 1 out of 5 is not something you give to an episode that is good. You give that to a worthless episode like “Black Market” or “Hero” where the main story has nothing to do with anything in the future. Every story element in this episode will impact future episodes.
May 30th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
I can admit that this episode was not one of the best of this season. After watching it for the second time, I could absorb more and I found that yeah, this wasn’t up to par with the two previous episodes. True, I don’t expect pounding action week, after week, after week, but I do expect intelligent storylines and I didn’t get that. I’m trying to figure out what the writer of “Sine Qua Non” is trying to put out there.
Natalie? Why did she have to die? She was one of the more interesting characters that I’ve seen on the show. I think it would have been great to see her scenes with Three because from what I could tell, Natalie was completely different than Caprica Six. Natalie and Three would have made a striking team when it came to finding the Final Five. It’s a shame that the writer of this episode disposed of such a great character.
Honestly, Lee (Leland? LOL) as president? In what twisted universe is that possible? Laura Roslin may not have aspired to be president, but at least she had some taste of politics, compared to Lee’s two seconds on the Quorum. Baltar was part of the Quorum too, and later became president and we all know what happened there. One part of the episode I liked was how Tom Zarek revealed that the only reason Lee was selected as the Caprica representative was because Zarek pulled strings. What does that say about Lee’s ability or how other’s think they can manipulate him? For example, the crazy Romo Lampkin and his gun. Lee is easily manipulated, and that spells trouble for the fleet. It just may be part of Zarek’s plan to take over as president. If he can try and have Roslin assassinated, he can definitely manipulate Lee until Lee is no longer running things.
And Romo, honestly I do not like that character. I haven’t liked him since Season 3, and now the man has head!cat? Is that some sort of clue as to him being a cylon? If it is, I don’t like it. I would take Jake the Dog as a cylon over him.
And Tigh? Tigh, what the frak is going on with you? Chill out with the projection…but now as I type this I have an odd theory. If Tigh can be a cylon and age (because Adama has known him for many years) can it be possible that Ellen is an older version of Six? And now that I’ve put it out there, I shall take it back. That sounds ridiculous. I just can’t believe that Tigh has gotten Caprica Six pregnant. What in the world is going on? What happened to the theory on love or is it that the final five have it in them to knock up cylons without the love? I’ll take Accidental Pregnancies for 200 Alex. Bleh, at least his preggo cylon led to the fight that threatened to kill the bromance between Adama and Tigh, that scene was one of the best of the episode. And the two later resolved it with a hug when Adama gave up his position as Admiral (Again…WTF?) Yes boys, hug it out, just hug it out.
Don’t even get me started on Adama putting Tigh in charge of the fleet. I just can’t stomach President Leland and Admiral Tigh in charge, it makes absolutely no sense at all. None. It was a bad move writers, a bad move. They could have come up with something else to get Adama to look for his woman. And now we know that Adama has a thing for Roslin, as if we couldn’t see that in previous episodes. That has to hurt Lee though, Adama is willing to put his life on the line to wait for Roslin, when Adama wouldn’t do the same for Lee’s mom. Ouch.
One thing that has continually bothered me is the Athena/Hera storyline. In this episode, Athena hums the tune that Boomer hummed to the cylon raider in the first season. Now, a cylon raider and a child are two completely different things. In the scene where Boomer hums to the raider, she was caressing the raider in the most…odd way and perhaps that has left an impression on me, but I’m beginning to feel that Athena is a lot more sinister when it comes to Hera than what we are being led to believe. I would call it an obsession really. But, I really enjoyed her scene with Adama. That was good stuff, but I do think the opera house vision is making her a tad bit crazy. I’m still trying to figure out what Roslin has to do with it, it will hit me just not today.
May 30th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
Wow,
So much passion. It’s clear, we all love this show and just want to see almost flawless episodes weak in and weak out. The strange thing about BSG is how much credit we give the writers and directors. Ron Moore has said that while there is a large story arc, a begging and and an end, the space in between is made up as the show moves along a larger path.
In the end, I try to relax my standards and accept episodes like this because there’s no point in really getting upset and I know no one here is really that angry.
I loved the first Matrix because it was so unexpected. I also liked the next two because the big idea was great and that allowed me to excuse the flaws in the execution. Interestingly, last week I bought Blade Runner the Final Cut and when you compare it to the original or the directors cut, it stands head and shoulders above them.
Folks there will be no directors cut and final cut for every episode, we just have to accept what we get even if it doesn’t live up to our lofty meticulous expectations. Just remember the Big Picture is what is important.
May 30th, 2008 at 7:10 pm
Boy, everyone’s ripping on this episode! Sure everyone liked Adama/Tigh, but I don’t think it was as bad as, say, OMG LEE YOU’RE CHEATING ON ME!!111!
For starters, learning that Six was pregnant in the first place was awsome. In one bold move, RDM demolishes everything everyone had been theorizing. Of course I was open to the possibility that the final five weren’t pure cylons, but you know what? I’m done with theorizing! ….for now
Next we have what everyone considered the stupid plot of Lee Adama becoming president. Was it just me, or did everyone see this coming since Lee said “I know what you mean by having a destiny now. I have to do this, and the fact that I don’t have a reason why really doesn’t matter anymore.”? I should have said something earlier. Frak. And anyways, I think it was yet another case of the writers going “ok, this needs to happen in this amount of time. We gotta set it up fast.” So they did it. Not the best way, obviously, but what the hell: he’s president now, and that’s going to be mighty interesting later on.
So nobody thought the scene where Lampkin threatened Lee was awsome? I sure as hell did. I have to admit that at first, this action didn’t fit with his character, but as the scene went on I understood. He was just manipulating Lee for his own good. The dialogue there (especially Lee’s end) was pretty good. Admittedly, the “looking for a candidate” was way too obvious and poorly done, but this scene redeemed my opinion of bringing Lampkin into the mix for the episode. It could have been better, but it wasn’t horrible. Also giving him Jake was a nod to the fans if ever I’ve seen one. Surely it sets up some plot to come
.
People have been complaining about how we don’t see the base ship. It would have been stupid to show what happened. What the hell would be the point of Adama staying behind to wait for them if we know they’re ok?! It would ruin the entire atmosphere of the ep; particularly the last few seconds, with Adama alone in a raptor, with Searider Falcon, waiting. What an awsome ending! I admit, it was a bummer not to see the battle, and I am sure they survived, but again, considering the whole point of this episode “Sine Qua Non”, it made sense to leave the basestar out of the equasion.
Anyway, I agree there were some elements in there that were sub-par, but it wasn’t as bad as all that. Hell, it was worth it just for the confrontations between Adama and Athena/Saul. And what, the five or six plot twists in a single fraking episode? I know everyone has their hopes up for a flawless season….but there is no such thing. Hell, the series itself is far from perfect. We love it because it is imperfect – because it decides to take risks that may not agree with us at first, and may not even work out well. That’s what makes this show special IMO. This isn’t the first mediocre ep, and it probably won’t be the last. Just appriciate the fact that it had good stuff, that it shook the foundation of our preconceptions and delivered some fundamental plot twists, and that there is still another half-season plus to go. Rock on people!
May 30th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
Yah notice how the show keeps slipping from the great show it used to be. This was a mediocre episode and actually some of the reasons were thought to be cool by others.
First of all, was the Caprica 6 pregnancy. Wow, to me that ruined the whole first season on caprica, Heilo and Sharen. If could could have babies all along, why not just program to cylons to fall in love, easy as cake. Second big beef with the episode was the Lee becoming president and Zarek just taking his toys and going home? Uh…we do remember this dude was a terrorist/freedom fighter right? Isn’t still trying to fix a corrupt regime? Oh, but Apollo has a “good morale compass” he’ll do what’s right. Zarek is a man who fought his whole life, or a good portion of it, against a corrupt regime and now can finally do something. He isn’t gunna leave quietly which I hope that BSG fixes soon. Finally, Starbuck acting as if she was just another member of the crew. Didn’t everyone on the ship expect her to be a cylon since the beginning of the new season?
They did get a couple things right though. First of all, putting Starbuck in a orderly role that granted wasn’t needed except to show a little military bearing. If I was her commander, I would have sent her out an airlock along time ago. Secondly, is Adama stepping down and handing the reigns over to the XO. Granted Saul is a drunk, poor leader, incompetent, slightly crazy still, and a cylon; but once again got to be in their shoes. One of the things you want for you best friends who serve with you is for them to succeed, which of course makes you sometimes gives bad calls. On the other hand Saul has grown as a leader, being the leader of the resistance which Adama may have taken into account when deciding this. But two Adamas would have caused an uproar in the fleet as the family seems to be making itself into a “morally correct” Borgia Family as they do just about anything for more control over the fleet. Course sending him off in space to wait for Laura was a little implausible. Especially since for all he knows, Laura’s dead.
So BSG has some work to do to make this episode even really worth watching at all. There is loads of potential to make Lee’s character grow from the two dimensional shell that he is now by making his ambitions take over a bit…finally. Also we can see what happens with Saul now that he is in command again. Oh and don’t forget the plot they barely touch at all in this episode, the bay ship that just jumped away.
PS: And what about earth, since roslin is gone, where is the fleet going? Is Starbuck now telling everyone where to go?
May 30th, 2008 at 7:25 pm
Just have to say one thing… Tigh better have Gaeta as the XO. For then there’ll be a one eyed admiral and a one legged second in command. Sounds a bit pirate-like to me. What say ye lads?
May 30th, 2008 at 7:33 pm
@Atreus
Why not just have the cylons impregnate themselves, as you say? Because pure cylons can’t have babies with each other. The final five are obviously hybrids (or….something else). Hell, we don’t really know what Cylon means nowadays (I forgot, I wasn’t supposed to be theorizing yet
). I’m suspending judgement on any and all twists till we get the final one, because it’ll either explain everything or it will be cause to riot.
May 30th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
George,
I think that the passion of BSG fans really puts us up there with Star Wars fans and Trekkies. Passion is also about caring for the success of BSG, and it’s well being.
And those of us who are harsh on the crew (cause I have yet to see anyone talk about bad acting) well we are equally quick to praise it like we never praised anything else in our lives.
Just because some Seasons were good, doesnt mean the whole show has to be good. And I think an audience that is critical of what they watch, is akin to a custumer who is critical about a product they are about to buy. You dont see people being “nice” and “positive” and “appreciative” when buying a used car do you? They test drive the crap out of it, study the engine like they are inspecting a rocket for an mission to the Mars, etc etc.
Well, in a way, all BSG viewers are “custumers” of a product. We pay for cable. We pay by having to endure commericals, which in turn make money for the networks, which pay for the shows.
It’s not like BSG crew are doing us a favor. We do not have to be “nice” and “look at the big picture” all the time.
Now, I absolutely do not wish to sound like I dont think the Crew of BSG is comptent. As I said, like 95% of the show we praise and praise a lot. We applaud and admire and praise the crew and thank them for their amazing work. But there is that 5%, and we have all the right in the world to be critical.
Being critical keeps the crew and producers and networks competitive. They realize that just because they did one season well, that they are guranteed to have the viewers for the next seasons and get away with bad work.
Plus, we all have different opinions. It is totally possible for some to absolutely love this episode, and others to hate it. We are all different and enjoy things differently.
However, most will agree there are som “universal” standards of quality, that even people who are not professional film or television show makers can know about. I mean, in the end it’s all a bit subjective, and what can be “poor writing” to one person might be “good writing” to another.
Anyways, it is important to know that we love for BSG, and we care for it’s success and well being, that we get disappointed when things are not done well.
So the key word is disappointment. I dont think any of us ever get angry, and even if we say it we dont really mean it. It’s mostly just great disappointment for a show we care deeply about, and we know they can do better, especially since we’ve seen them do better! We are only measuring the crew by their own standards.
So when I hear people say “chill” and just “look at the big picture”, I say “care” and “enjoy the process”
May 30th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
The preview just blew me away. I have high hopes.
Ryan the correct quote is this….
“You know about the final five, BUT what you don’t know is IF you are one of one of them”
To people saying that they don’t understand the Adama going crazy over Laura arc. It’s in this episode that he finaly realizes his true feelings for Roslin. The show has been dancing around the fact that they love each other since last season. Even more this season. The tragic thing is that only when it is too late that Bill finally accept his love for Laura. Personaly I find it beatiful and it says a lot about the character.
May 30th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
Was anyone else disturbed by Lampkin’s references to Freudian psychoanalysis? He talks about id and ego, and Lee acts as though he knows exactly what he’s talking about. The writers usually do a good job referencing philosophy, current events, etc without blatantly saying them out loud…but this really killed the scene for me because they shouldn’t know about Freud!! However, now that I’m on the subject…it’s interesting that Lampkin used id and ego to describe Lee’s situation. Lee has always been the “moral compass” the one with the overactive superego and Kara was the opposite with her pleasure seeking principles (id). But as we see Kara acting normal (for a change) and the voice of reason, could this be a very small allusion to a presidential Lee acting on his own whims? MAYBE he’ll finally make some decisive actions!! Perhaps I’m reaching too far, but I’d really like to see Jamie Bamber being put to good use…the story arc as President is looking good, but the set up could be improved.
I found this episode a bit disappointing since we had to wait 2 weeks for it, and the promos from the previous week gave most of the main story lines away. However, I think it was a “good” episode in the way it is building up what is to come in the next 2 weeks: 1) Cylon Tigh with the firepower of the entire human race as they search for the final five…this has such potential that I get excited thinking about it 2) Adama resigned!! (Last thing I expected…especially for a woman) 3) Six is pregnant (Is tigh going to let her keep the baby?! and the first CYLON-CYLON baby) 4) Mr. President Lee Adama 4) Romo Lampkin, delusional or cylon? (I love and hate the deliberate ambiguity of bsg writers!) it’s like the little pause in a storm…before the sh*t hits the fan! One more week and Xena is back aka D’Anna!!!
As for wild theories…I’m currently entertaining the idea of a Lost-style death/future guides where characters are starting to talk to dead people eg. Claire, Charlie, Chrisitan, Eko, etc. The head characters: six, leoban, baltar, kitty(?) are all actually dead versions of themselves sent back to guide them to Earth. I’m thinking that the only way to actually reach Earth is by dying (I think this is an old theory) and the final five are special because they are the first cylons to truly experience death. This needs major tweeking, but it more sense as it gets later at night
May 30th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
@yvho
You’re making more sense than you think perhaps.
This is something I’ve been tossing around in my head for a while. Given that Starbuck is both a)supposed to be guiding the people to Earth and b) is the harbenger of death (seemingly contradictory), it’s fair to say that this does indeed look like a promising scenario. They will all die, and therefore find Earth.
I knew it, they’re all in the Matrix!
May 30th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
First thing I think that Sine Qua Non will be viewed more favourably when it is able to be assessed in the context of the season (or half season) as a whole
Jinx I kind of agree with you about the spoiler heavy promos, while sci-fi want to make the episode look as exciting as possible surely they can do it in such a way that doesnt give away key plot points. It reminds me of a bit from the stargate episode 200 where Carter says that the big twist will be in the commercial
May 30th, 2008 at 8:06 pm
Hmmmm the Starbuck thing I think is very subtle.
I think Ron and co are lining her up to ‘lead humanity to its end’. Tigh’s reign won’t last very long once once his true identity is discovered and Adama feels he has lost his objectivity. Lee would have been the obvious candidate but he’s now president.
I also think all the hybrid’s utterings are about the cylons and only refer to humanity where they (we) are mentioned. For example ‘they must not follow her’ I think refers to the cylons. If all this has happened before and will happen again Earth will be ready for the cylons.
May 30th, 2008 at 8:06 pm
I so much loved this episode. I think it was possibly my favorite all season. Just so much happend. I love all the politics.
I’ve actually come to truly believe that Romo is a Cylon now. I mean he may have gone wacko after his cat died and that was why he was seeing it everywhere but I mean it could be projecting. And also there was that line where Lee asked him why he’d not left his room in so long. Again it could be cos he was heartbroken over his cat but then again, what if he knows he’s a cylon? And also his rant over how mankind didn’t deserve to exsist, could that be him embraceing his cylon side in some way? And then it was Lee who convinces him that Mankind was in fact worth saving…….I dunno. I’m actually really hoping that he’s a Cylon now.
The whole thing between 6 and Tigh was interesting. I saw it coming of course but it raises questions. I mean the fact that a cylon can get another cylon pregnant, does that mean the final 5 are different? Or is it because Saul is actually in love with 6? Remember is season 1 when the cylons beleived the missing link in cylons having a child was love? I think this would make sense given that 6 even asked saul if he loved her.
The fight between Saul and Bill was great too. It ended just as it should have done. They’d had their punch up. They’d got their anger out. Then they move on and they’re just as good friends as they were before. I just love how how they both just sort of shrug it of and chalk it down to being about women.
Now we have a lot of change. Saul has the Admiral seat which I hope he’ll do well with. I think he will. He won’t let Bill down. And neither will Lee. I was kinda hoping for a little chat between the two of them about him being President now but hey time constraints really. Fact is we know already that Bill is proud of his son and he knows he’ll do what’s right.
Right at the end we see Husker (loved hearing that callsign again) all alone in the void in a raptor………I can’t wait til the next one.
May 30th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
After two weeks of waiting Natalie Six shot ,Basestar Jumps we finally get our next chapter
Caprica is with child ! The look on Tigh’s face was so worth it. Therefore her child will be seen as God’s true miracle and the future of the cylon’s as a race which has become truly sentient now that not even the colonists can deny. Also that’s what the meaning of the opera house is . Both Roslin and Athena assumed the child was Hera but it was the child of Caprica and Tigh. And vision belonged to all cylons that’s why all 3 dreamed of the opera house.
Natalie 6 died as as she died she saw someone ;reached out for them however Cottle took her hand to comfort her who did she see
perhaps the same beings which took Kara in Maelstroum higher beings, god perhaps and that’s why she was so happy in her end in peace . Or maybe she was projecting ( yes I know this is a tv show).
Sharon was arrested and put in the brig that’s probably what Hera’s bye bye was all about and her drawings about Caprica 6 and her baby girl not Hera.
Romo has returned I loved this character because you have no idea what agenda he has and that’s scary.( Sorry about his cat)
Which come to my mind what did we see in his room him remembering what the cat looked like and why didn’t anyone smell tha cat
if it was dead for a week .
we have only heard a few stories out in the fleet over the last 4 years, of what happened that day of the attacks on the colonies and just as heart breaking as Romo’s . At least he got Jake in the end.
Romo was right that Lee was the logical choice however did they have to waste an entire episode dancing around this cause yes we know the colonists keep on the same cycle of self distructivness because they think of the way of the old and Lee is a clean slate for the colonists,Zarek would have been too militant too much still part of the old regime but lee becoming President of the colonies it was destiny cause no one is ending in the series the way the originally were if you can’t tell you haven’t been watching. But he also keeps a good grip on the old gods even with his support to Baltar’s religion movement. (democrat probably).
The scene with Lee and Zarek:when Zarek thought lee would back him up with the quorum of 12 reminds me of Truman (U.S. President)in the same simularities that he had no political aspirations but big money and influence got him elected as a judge but never gave favor to these people, he stuck to doing what was right, he like Lee never bowed to pressure (minus the A bomb) it’s the quiet ones to be careful around. Only time or at least the remainder of the season will tell if he is the one good man aboe them all.
Adama finally admitted his feelings for Laura which I thought would never happen and very grateful however I do not know how he
will he feel if what Diana says in the previews is true that Roslin is the one of the final 5 which I have been saying for weeks ( go ahead look up my past blogs on BSG Cast under Soniajeans(Helo Fan).) As the Pythia Prophecy states dying leader not dead leader.
And Roslin might have been projecting the river in ” The Road Not Taken” and that’s why Billy wasn’t seen on the river banks.
We didn’t see anything on the four id’ed cylons except the scenes with Tigh and Adama fighting over Caprica and Roslin (guys always breaking the bro code for the girls.)and later when Adama handed in his admiral insignias to him.I do think Tigh will do a better job in command this time around because he does have more confidence in himself and he’s sober this time. We also saw Tory hovering over Zarek being a fly on the wall. ( annoyance).
I so hate that we will have to wait till next week to see what happened to them and the renegade baseship. However I wait with anticipation to see deanna again from what I know Lucy Lawless is showing up for 2-3 episodes so goodtimes ahead.
I guess there going to have for those of you tuning in episodes were they show the devastation and make you grow impatient before you see the other story same time code .
it just better be good si’
My BSG fact
Lucy Lawless was offered the role of Ellen Tigh but turned it down so the BSG writers came to her with the evil #3 which she of course took and we just love her that way.
May 30th, 2008 at 8:17 pm
Oh. the other thing I really liked. How Starbuck was back in her CAG role. Too often we see her as some kind of crazy person and it’s easy to forget that she’s got a job and she’s good at it. In this ep we don’t see her much but we see her long enough for her to show her doing her job and looking out for her people. And in the end that kind of shows that no matter what happens she is in the end a soldier and more than that, an Officer. She does her duty. She leads but she also follows. I just think it’s great that they show that.
May 30th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
I enjoyed the episode–as I do all of them, some more than others. Life is full of joy, disappointments, and a lot of neutral in between–it makes the rest stand out.
What I found interesting was that Sol and Cap6 could reproduce–maybe that’s how hybrids are born? Or maybe Hera is a hybrid? Isn’t it funny that Helo/Athena’s baby is a girl and Cally/Tyrol’s baby is a boy? Adam and Eve?
The least interesting character in the series is Lee Apollo Adama–When he’s on the screen I get snacks. Salty snacks, salty and delicious like every other character! Oh well, neutrality makes the rest stand out.
Enjoy!
May 30th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
I had a good time watching the episode as well.
So who says that it is surprising and unbelievable to see Adama giving up command for a woman and that it’s crazy that he waits alone in a raptor for her to come back? Well, you do crazy things when you’re in love. It’s as simple as that. I thought Sin Qua Non was a great character episode for Adama. His storyline and interacting with Tigh was awesome as well.
But I agree the Lee-subplot had its weaknesses. Could have accepted him as Vice President, but President all of a sudden … don’t know. Has a strange feeling about it. All in all I can’t wait until next epsiode.
May 30th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
Okay, I have watched it… NOW I’m happy and am even more eager to check out next week’s episode!
First off, I don’t believe that Tigh got Caprica pregnant. Think about this: We never get any indication that they had been sleeping together. We get only one side of it, which is this: Tigh talks to Caprica, orders everyone out of the room and turns the camera off. The only thing that suggests is that Tigh doesn’t want the camera on should he end up accidentally letting the cat out of the bag about his true nature. Besides, we still have no indication as to if the Final Five can get other Cylons pregnant (so far, what it shows is exactly what we’ve seen before, that Cylon females can become pregnant through human males and Cylon males can impregnate Cylon females. So, who’s Caprica’s baby’s daddy if I don’t think it’s Tigh? Simple: BALTAR. Why do I say that? Simple: We’ve seen Baltar sleeping with Caprica throughout the first half of Season 3 (prehaps even longer). And think of this: It’s been only months between the events of New Caprica and now. And its only been weeks since Tigh started to talk to Caprica (one month at least). Of course, that’s just my opinion and how I see it right now.
For next week’s trailer, the scene where D’anna is apparently talking to Roslin, I think that she doesn’t out Roslin as a Cylon. Think about it: It could be possible that Anders was one of the Viper pilots on board the Basestar and that she outs him right in front of Roslin (or maybe even Tyrol, seeing that we haven’t seen any sign of him in a while). It’s apparent that the only two Cylons that are still within the fleet are Tory and Tigh, so Anders and the Chief are both still left open as to being on the Basestar that jumped away. I don’t think they would show D’anna outing Roslin as a Cylon if the scene was really like that. Trust me, so far, they’ve teased us but haven’t spoiled something important to us yet (and I’ve got a feeling that clip in the trailer is still going to do what so many before it has done). It makes even more sense since D’anna DID try to kill Anders in “Downloaded” and would explain why she apologized to one of the Final Five in “Rapture” (she was apologizing for trying to kill him).
But then again, the Sci-Fi weekly e-mail did spoil a bit of this episode a few weeks back. In one of the sections where it talked about the week’s episode (I can’t remember exactly when or what episode it was), it showed a picture of Adama seated in a craft with a Viper flightsuit and helmet on. And this was weeks ago. I thought it was going to be in the episode that week and when it didn’t show up, I thought that maybe it was a deleted scene, much like how one of the publicity stills from “Torn” showed D’anna’s projection of the church while that scene was cut). So, my above statement maybe incorrect.
Now, I must say, with the Raptor that jumped in damaged, I thought it may have been the same one that Starbuck, Athena and Co. hooked up to the Basestar to jump it (primarily because of the damage that the window screen took), and that the reason why the ship became even more damage was that they tried to jump the Basestar again, but the Raptor went without it. Of course, within moments, it turned out to be wrong, as was my theory that the Viper seen in the teaser two weeks back may have been from a “previous run” of the whole “everything has happened before, all will happen again” theme. I guess that’s two things I was wrong about.
May 30th, 2008 at 9:52 pm
CB2001:
Tigh clearly slept with Caprica Six. Adama asked him to deny it and he did not. Also, you should check out the video in my link… you seem to forget that Caprica Six decided Tigh did not need a beating, he needed loving.
Also, the Final Five are different from the Significant Seven, as per RDM. We don’t know how they are different but this could be one way.
As for what some people are questioning, Lee being put in the power of selecting the president. The Quorum trusts Lee and looks to him as someone who can get things done. Don’t forget that Lee was the only fleet officer to stand with the civilian government when the rest of the fleet wanted to eliminate it. He is pretty much the only person who could come up with a candidate his father would accept while having the trust of the Quorum to do so with integrity. This is not too different from how the US Congress put the power of selecting the president in the hands of very few people… interestingly enough, most of them were lawyers.
Finally, some people have complained about Adama’s decision to give up command and wait for Roslin. I am not sure if they have been paying attention this season but while they were likely complaining about small dramatic moments just being “filler moments” in the season, they may have missed that there has been a built-up to Adama giving up everything so he can just spend one more moment with those he loves. He cannot handle losing any more. So he will wait for the woman he loves because without her, his soul is empty. Adama is willing to die just for the chance to see her one more time.
May 30th, 2008 at 11:20 pm
OK firft with the death of 6. 3 need to watch again bot it looked to me she was projecting bot when she looked at the doc he had a glow with the bacground light and being in his surgical clothes. He reminded me of the beings of light. I’m not ready to say he is one yet but hey it gave the aperance.
Head cat? I don’t think so. Looked more to me like memories.
More on Laura and the last Cylon. The only ones of the H shown in the fleet were Tiegh and the Presidents aid. (I NEVER REMEMBER HER NAME.) It may have been set that way to make us think Laura is the last Cylon. It would however be interesting if she was.
Once again I can’t wait to get home from work to watch it again. I think there is a lot there for us.
OH one last thing. With Lee. He may have known he was the only man for the jub but was too hunble to admit it. This is common in a good leader.
May 31st, 2008 at 1:27 am
Someone else asked this but why didn’t lee go to someone with actual political experience instead of going to Romo who is a lawyer and has been locked in a room with his dead cat in a bag for Gods knows how long. I think using Tory would have made more sense and continued the pattern of the final five being leaders or being close to those in power. (Saul/Adama, Tory/Roslin, Anders on Caprica, Saul, Anders and Cheif on New Caprica). She’s worked for the president and would obviously know her way around the system to make up for his inexperience. Plus Tory could use Lee’s inexperience to manipulate him.
Spoiler Alert: In the next episode Jake the dog turns out to be a daget who is the final cylon model (they never said the final five was a human mode.). He can talk – and fly with his special cylon jet pack. In the last scene of the midseason finale his spine lights up when he humps Romo’s Leg. Although Sci-Fi didn’t like the idea it was the last script idea written before the writters strike so it was too late to change. Also, in a surprise move Lee appoints Boxey vice-president.
May 31st, 2008 at 2:40 am
OMG and as Nat would say “HOLY CRAP!”
This episode was good, i guess with the introduction of Lee as the president that will lesson tension a tiny bit when the next episode comes and we hear from D’anna that Laura is the final cylon. Whether this is true or not we do not know but we also see the return of One and Boomer presumably on the hub which looks as if its gonna go bye bye from the Baseships..
Theory: Earth is the after life, Natalie starts to see it when she dies? Also It appears that Final Five and the mass produced copies can breed, bringing forth the possibility of a new sub race? And also bring Helo back into speculation as Athena is one of the mass produced copies… Dun Dun DUN!
May 31st, 2008 at 2:41 am
lol
Yes, Jake is actually Muffet!!! I can see it now…. Boxy and Muffet shall have their revenge and destroy humanity and the cylons. The series shall come full circle with Galactica 1980 when Boxy lands on the ashes of the humans on earth with his flyingcycle. All of this has happened before and all of this will happen again…… again… again…. :p
May 31st, 2008 at 2:42 am
I sit here and read most of your comments every week but I’ve never commented before. This episode though I just had to say something.
The first thing I wanted to say was about Lee being sworn in. Did anyone else find the fact that his name is Leland absolutely hysterical. I was drinking hot chocolate and ended up spitting it out all over the floor. I think some even came out of my nose.
Secondly. I think you’re all being a little harsh with your reviews (You know who you are). I totally get that it wasn’t the best episode ever. But if your just gonna sit there and trash the show. Why are you even watching it? If it’s really that bad, stop watching the fraking show, and leave your mean comments to yourself.
May 31st, 2008 at 3:06 am
Not one of my favorite epi’s. I don’t know if it was the actors, the writing, or directing, but it seemed out of “whack” with the style of the series. Example,…Starbuck was just concerned about “being the harbinger of death” and “leading them to their end” and,..well,..she just led her husband, Anders, and best friend, Helo, to their assumed death by telling the Prez the Opera House line, and leading them to the Hybrid, but she is more concerned with the Cag and busted Admiral for staying around?
May 31st, 2008 at 3:24 am
Did anyone catch Starbuck telling Adama about already missing two pilots? It was when Adama was discussing the search for Laura. She mentioned that and not wanting her pilots to think they are on a one-way mission. Starbuck now the CAG?
When Lamkin was talking with Adama I thought that was funny. He had Adama signing for the civilian ships for liability purposes. It almost seemed like an excuse to talk with him. I also got curious about the meaning of the shows title? It seems like it means “Without which not is what” It seems to have a deep meaning don’t you think?
When Lamkin was deciding on Lee to be President he was talking to himself and his “Head” cat was there but he said “Lads” whom else was he talking to? Was it his “head” cat and the dead one? Lamkin is deeply disturbed. I think this story line is going somewhere. Is he another candidate for the last Cylon? While Lee was staring down the barrel of Lamkins gun he reminded me of Dirty Harry. “Do you feel lucky punk?” LOL
Preview
Helo was the one in the jock smock leading the Dianna out of the Hub. Guess he is OK and a possible Cylon. Shows Helo and a woman warrior in a Cylon ship pistols drawn like they’re looking for something. Could be Dianna and the woman looked like Athena. I know it can’t be but she had the same outline. Her Face was too dark to make out for sure.
When they show Dianna with Laura they are on a Basestar so it did survive and it also showed Adama in sick bay looking over I presume Laura so they all make it back.
Looks like it’s going to have a kick ass battle sequence too. I can’t wait for it.
May 31st, 2008 at 3:27 am
BSGinvictus:
One of the best things with these comments is it allows you to rant. So the reviews are gunna be harsh, because we know what this show is capable of and it is not giving us the same work that it was doing in the 1st/2nd seasons. Don’t get me wrong this is still my favorite show and I’m gunna hate to see it go when it does, but they’re obviously running out of good filler. Or the writer’s strike hurt the show big time. Either way we should be allowed to vent our anger about where the show is going.
May 31st, 2008 at 3:51 am
CB2001
Tyrol is still on Galactica since at the end of the previous episode he took Hera when Athena asked him too before she shot Natalie, Anders whereabouts are unknown however, I would guess that he is on the baseship since it would be surprising IMO for none of the final five to be on the baseship when D’anna arrives.
As for the father of Caprica 6’s child while I would not be surprised if it was Baltar I think it will be Tigh simply because Cottle should be able to estimate for how long she has been pregnant and Adamas certainty that Tigh was the father supports this
I wouldnt put it past D’anna to lie about the identities of the final five and to claim that Roslin is the final cylon especially as sci-fi need to learn how not to put major spoilers in their promos
May 31st, 2008 at 3:56 am
Hey Matt and Natt. First off, I just want to say that I love your recaps. They always come from a place of respect for the show and the genre and your energy and enthusiasm is infectious.
With that said, I think this episode was solid. So many people are calling “Sin” weak and dialogue heavy but I beg to differ. I never expected to make the jump with Rosalyn to Gods know where. I was happy to hang out with the boys of BSG for an hour. Here are my thoughts on some stand out moments.
Natalie – R.I.P.
This one hurt. This one hurt real bad. I liked Natalie and I really thought Cottle could save her so she could hang out on the ship for a while and duke it out with Admiral Adama. It was really interesting to see that she was projecting her nature environment at the end. It was very true to her model. I’m glad she wasn’t waiting for the ferry…
Saul and Six – Oh baby!
I knew it! I just didn’t think the writers had the stomach to do it. Caprica is pregnant with possibly the first 100% Cylon baby. “The children of the one reborn will find their own country.” The hybrid said this in one of her babbles but now I’m thinking she’s talking about Saul and Six. (I always thought it referred to either Starbuck, who was reborn or Cavil who’s skinjob #1 and can be reborn.) Time will tell. My only concern with this revelation was that no one told Six. Where is the shot of Cottle breaking the news? We all know Head Six was envious of Athena for being able to have children. What will she say about one of her “sisters”? I can’t wait to see where this goes…. And I’m thankful I didn’t get to see the conception.
Saul and Admiral Adama – They can still take a punch.
I always love EJO and Hogan’s performances. They can do no wrong in my book. I love their fight scene. When they were lying on the ground panting and bleeding you could totally tell both of them where thinking, “We’re getting too old for this shiz.” Love it!
Admiral Adama – A life not worth living…
You have to give this ep to EJO for his heart wrenching devotion to Rosalyn. We all know those kids love each other but he proved just how much by handing over the keys to the Battlestar to Saul and saying goodbye to his kids. (Lee and Kara) We all know he won’t be floating in space for very long but I love how he just laid it out on the line. He doesn’t want to live without her. That’s true love. Are you paying attention Lee?
Leland and Romo – Ghost Kitty
I never liked the idea of Lee in politics and every week they prove me right. Within the first five minutes of the ep I knew Lee would get the nod for presidency so when Romo finally reveals this at the end it was about as dramatic as Cally’s airlocking. We saw it coming about six eps ago. And for the love of the Gods, no more scenes of people talking their way out of getting shot. (Kara did it with Rosalyn and Athena did it with Cally albeit in a deleted scene but still…. This one with Lee and Romo was just awkward and preachy.) Anywho, I really liked Romo last season but his philosophical diarrhea was just grating and his mental breakdown came out of nowhere. There was such coolness about this character, a mystique that was simply lost. Now he’s just a guilt-ridden basket case, like the rest of em. I don’t think Jake looked too happy about being Romo’s new kitty. That little bark of his was a plea for help.
Kara, Lee and Dee
Hey, did everybody see Dee? She was there and then I blinked. And Starbuck. I know she’s all low-key now but her cold, expressionless demeanor worries me. And what’s up with the lack of interaction between her and Lee? They don’t have to be making out but at least they could of shared more than a glance over papa Adama’s leaving. For two people with a past like theirs, you’d think they’d lean on each other for support.
Well, looks like next week we’ll get to see Deanna and probably not learn who the final cylon is. I don’t care though. This journey is well worth the ride and I’m savoring every ep because we all know this half of the season is coming to an end very soon.
May 31st, 2008 at 5:01 am
Atreus1987:
I don’t have a huge problem if people want to rant a little. But when they do these uber-long extremely harsh rants that just go on and on about how terrible the episode was, it gets on my nerves. I’ve always been a supporter of constructive criticism. It just seems like this week people are being much harsher than usual. I didn’t think the episode was that bad. It would be nice though if 90% of the feedback for the episode wasn’t negative.
I personally enjoyed some of the Lee-Lampkin stuff. Especially the head kitty. although I would kill to see Lee put on a flight suit again at least once before the end of the series.
I also liked the decision to leave out all the basestar bits. It was a good idea to put it into it’s own episode. Even if we have to wait another week for the episode. Half the fun is waiting for the next episode and predicting what’s gonna happen.
I will admit, some of the writing could have used a little more polishing. But it was not the worst writing ever. I’ve watched a lot of bad writing on other shows and this episode was miles ahead of some other shows, no matter how bad everyone thought it was.
May 31st, 2008 at 5:05 am
Folks, I have one thing to say:
Don’t EVER watch the previews for the next ep. Just don’t do it. It’s not worth it. Don’t even watch the action montage just after the opening credits. It makes the episodes that much sweeter.
May 31st, 2008 at 5:18 am
Brian:
I totally agree. I mean. I usually end up seeing the preview for next week because they show it quite a lot through the week during other shows. but I don’t think it’s the same preview everyone else is seeing. There are things people talk about seeing in the previews that I’m just not seeing.
At first I thought I just wasn’t paying attention. but I’m pretty sure its a different preview. I wish I could avoid the previews though. Like you said. It makes the episode better if you don’t know what’s coming.
May 31st, 2008 at 5:32 am
Charles- Thanks, had a brainfart and forgot about that. So, that leaves only Anders unaccounted for, so it maybe him who D’anna outs in front of Roslin next week.
May 31st, 2008 at 5:46 am
I doubt very much that Three meant Roslin… it is just creative editing. She was probably talking to Anders.
May 31st, 2008 at 5:54 am
Adalla,
I love Battlestar Galactica.
I didn’t direct my post at anyone specifically so for you to write what you did is bush league. You seem like a nice person, but honestly, this your analogy about BSG and buying a used car or some other product is STUPID. Honestly, BSG is art we may not agree with the artist, but you know what the artist can do what they FRAKING want to do. It’s their piece of art and yes we are privileged to watch it.
Ron Moore doesn’t read your posts and say “oh Gods I’ve pissed Adalla off” get off your self righteous soap box! The BSG writers don’t give a toss about what you think!
If you pay $100 a month for cable and you get over 100 channels then you are essentially paying less than a dollar per channel. Furthermore, if you divide the $100 by the number shows available on those 100 channels then BSG is costing less than 2 cents.
Your analogy is STUPID.
When I read what you posted about my comment, which was completely positive, it pisses me off. FRAK you! Go watch something else and go FRAK yourself.
I’m a nice person, leave me alone.
Stay Positive !
May 31st, 2008 at 5:57 am
Atreus said it all.
90% of the feedback was not negative. I believe only 3 or 4 of us had negative reviews of the episode so far. I’m sorry if we do not all just accept everything that is thrown at us just because it is BSG and worship it. Some of us are a bit more critical and since we care about the show so much, and we know it can do better because it has done better in the past, well we get disappointed is the best word to describe us.
Plus, if you dont like negative reviews, skip them. No one forces you to read them. I for one warned people mine was going to be the most negative review of any episode to date. That was plenty warning.
Freedom of speech folks. And what gets to me is when people question our love for BSG just because we are critical of a FEW episodes, out of like nearly 80+. I wouldnt have created not one, but two BSG websites, if I wasnt absoultely in love with BSG.
Some folks need to learn that being critical, even to the point of being angry and frustrated with the disappointement of an episode, doesnt automatically make us BSG haters or Crew haters.
We LOVE Battlestar Galactica, and we care so much for it’s success, and THAT is why we are so frustrated when the writers and other crew do a poor job and waste the immense talent of the actors are their disposal. Because we know they can do better, and have.
I think I made my point. Freedom of speech, freedom of opinion, and remember, we all Love BSG or we wouldnt be spending this much time on it…even if we sound harsh sometimes, again, it’s cause we CARE so much and want the show to fullfill it’s potential.
~Adalla
May 31st, 2008 at 5:59 am
Oh and George…lets stay civil please. No need to be calling anyone stupid.
May 31st, 2008 at 6:09 am
GODSPEED HUSKER
First, let me say of all the layers in BSG; I love the character development more than anything. Much like the final act of a great play where the central characters evolve; Bill Adama and Saul Tigh are making huge strides here.
Colonel Tigh has become a very sober and focused leader not only for the final four, but the entire fleet. Wow, a skin job leading the humans into battle. This begs the question, will Tigh be the unifier of all man and cylonkind? He certainly is developing traits of a great leader. who in the world saw that coming from this booze soaked salty dog?
On the flip side, Admiral Adama’s slow change from a hard-as-nails military leader to a faith based follower is one I did not see coming either. I know many of you are complaining that Adama has been Roslin’s patsy for too long and should grow a pair, but I respectfully disagree. Adama has been the shepard for his sheep far too long. Starbuck’s return and Laura’s cancer being revived have rocked Adama to his core and made him examine what he really wants or believes in.
For the past 3 seasons Abama’s military code has served as his bedside companion. With his wife gone and last surving son on semi-good terms with him; Adama has been completely alone in the universe. No man is an island that’s for sure and his relationship with Roslin has slowly progressed from resentment to respect and now finally love.
Yes, Bill is in love with Laura and doesn’t care who knows it. Love with her, her faith for a better time and place where everyone can live in peace has fueled his change. His willingness to step down from his command was a shocker but understandable. The final scene where Adama (or Husker) flies his Raptor into the unknown while the new Admiral skin job orders the jump is a memorable one.
It was over 40 years ago that a young, naive LT. Husker lost his love interest to Cylon fire. This time Husker might be able to save the girl and in doing so continue his other great new love, faith.
May 31st, 2008 at 6:12 am
Not sure what to make of this episode, but I have been working on a theory I thought I’d share:
The Hera Theory:
The hybrid’s prophecies:
“The children of the one reborn will find their own country.” The ONE reborn is actually the “One True God” reborn. Who is this person? Read on.
“The missing three will give you the five who come from the home of the 13th.” The 13th is not the 13th colony, but the 13th cylon. Hera is that cylon. This would explain Hera’s significance to the Final Five: They do not know the location of Earth, but they recognize Hera as the 13th and she will lead the way to Earth.
I believe that Hera, the 13th cylon, is also the One True God reborn. After all, she is “the shape of things to come” and so far this season, it seems like everything is building to the acceptance of the One True God.
But how do 6 and Baltar fit in? What if the One True God selected them to bring him/her forth? Perhaps Caprica was pregnant before the attacks on the colonies and that child was meant to be the One True God’s vessel. Unfortunately, Caprica died in the attacks and therefore, the One True God had to think up a new plan. Enter Helo and Sharon.
But if the One True God did chose 6 and Baltar, why them? Maybe because they are “perfect”. 6 could be seen as the perfect cylon. After all, 6 is a perfect number and from what we know, the 6’s are the only cylons not given human names (Doral, Cavil, Simon, etc.) And Baltar? Baltar is the “perfect” human because he is so deeply flawed. And what are humans if not deeply, fundamentally flawed?
I believe this is the reason Baltar and Caprica have “head” versions of each other. These “angels” are not representations of each other: They, like Hera, are vessels for the One True God. How did Caprica end up on Galactica? You could say it all started with New Caprica. And how did that come to pass? In Downloaded, “Head“ Baltar made Caprica re-think her feelings toward humans, setting the whole scenario into motion. Caprica, because she was meant to be Hera’s mother, is now her protector. And Baltar, who was meant to be Hera’s father, is now the person chosen to spread the message of the One True God. How did he learn this message? Through his “Head” 6.
Ergo: Hera is the key to everything!
Maybe it’s a crazy theory and not a single bit of it is true, but I thought it was cool, so I thought I’d share.
May 31st, 2008 at 6:34 am
1) I’m still wondering if Tigh really is a Cylon. And for all we know, Caprica Six really isn’t having his baby but Baltar’s.
2) Really inpressed with “old man” adama, such a hero, sitting there in that raptor all by himself; maybe he is the “5th” and is just waiting for Deanna to confirm this and have the centurians bring him in.
3) What the frakking BS was all that with ROMO and his cat? Just too, too wierd. Well, we can rule him out as a “5th” candidate.
May 31st, 2008 at 7:09 am
I thought this was a solidly well done episode. I agree that compared to the last episode where there was sooo much plot and everything seemed to be happening all at once, this one did feel a little slow plot wise.
Obviously I really really wanted to know what happened to the rouge basestar, though I can understand why they didn’t show it, because if they did then the suspence of what the frak is going on by the galacticans would not be as impactfull as it was this way, where the audience knows only what they know.
I LOVED the Adama Tigh fight scene, and right before that when they’re chewing each other out. I was a little skeptical at first, but I liked how they showed that Romo Lamkin was crazy in the head, imagining the cat. I hope they bring him back once more at least before the series ends.
The whole thing about Adama giving up his command to Tigh and staying behind in a Raptor did at first feel a bit out of character for Adama, but the genius of Edward James Olmos’s acting carried it through and had me believing that it was a justifiable action. I really liked it when he used his old callsign of Husker.
In the past everyone (myself included) for good reason said that it was impossible for Helo to be the final cylon because he got Sharon pregnant, and Cylons can’t get Cylons pregnant…or so we thought. So now with Tigh getting Caprica Six pregnant Helo can potentially be the final cylon, and I think I remember seeing him on the rouge basestar before it jumped so he could be there as Deana is revealing all five, if he turns out to be the fifth.
If Roslin turns out to be the final Cylon, as it predicted in the teaser for the next episode, I will NEVER watch another preview for BSG again. However if she turns out to be the final Cylon, then in a way I’ll feel extremely happy because I predicted she was the final one all the way back halfway through Season 3.
May 31st, 2008 at 7:59 am
I’ve been reading this forum for a few weeks now and I absolutely love the level of analysis I find here. Thank you all for feeding my BSG addiction. I just wanted to share that I started crying when Lee handed Jake over to Romo. Crying, not for Jake that he had to be Romo’s new dawg, but for Lee’s loving and understanding that he cared so much about Romo that he would find him a real live pet even after witnessing the smelly, decomposing cat-body-in-a-bag that lonely, torn, eccentric Romo was desecrating daily. I truly hope Jake will finally heal Romo. Love Lee for that..the lad has heart.
May 31st, 2008 at 8:09 am
I realy don’t think Laura is a Cylon. Looked more to me like she was doing the whole supprised look at whoever it is.
May 31st, 2008 at 8:27 am
I actually think that it is her, thought so since season one and maybe even the mini series. They didn’t say that they were reveling the final cylon though in the preview did they? So if that is the case, then they are probably just talking about Anders. But if they are it could still be just about anyone, because it did seem that they cut to a scene of her being surprised. I still think the three best candidates for the last cylon is Roslin, Adama, and Zarek. This makes it so that the last cylons is in grasp of control of the fleet while the other four are able to support him/her in the role where ever it may lead.
May 31st, 2008 at 8:32 am
What really got me in this episode was the scene where Athena’s humming the lullaby to Hera. Of course, we all remember it’s the same lullaby Boomer hums to the Raider in S1 but this new scene, at least to me, was more tragic and haunting than it was creepy.
Sine Qua Non. Episode 8 explores the question, “What do we do when we lose the very thing that gives meaning to our lives?”
Bill realizes he cannot live without Laura so he relinquishes his command and jumps into the Raptor. Romo is still deeply tortured by the loss of his family and when his cat–his wife’s cat, the one tie he has left to his family–dies, he starts to have delusions. The answer is pretty straightforward. When the most important thing in our lives is lost, we lose ourselves too.
The reason the Athena/Hera scene haunts me so much is at the surface, it seems like a happy ending. Unlike Bill and Romo, Athena is reunited with her “Sine Qua Non”. She hums Hera a lullaby, a song meant to soothe, a song that promises things will be okay. But this is Battlestar Galactica. Things are NEVER okay. If you watch closely, you’ll realize Hera is not responding to her mother’s lullaby. She has this blank look in her eyes. Meanwhile, Athena doesn’t seem to notice—all that really matters to her is that she has her daughter back. And maybe this is a good thing, her not noticing. Because it’s only too clear for the rest of us. We’ve seen it coming all the way from S1: Hera was never really hers to begin with. Hera was never gonna be just Athena’s daughter. That’s not her destiny. She’s something much bigger.
After seeing her shoot Natalie, I have no doubts about Athena’s resolve when it comes to protecting Hera. But guns can only do so much. I have this sinking feeling Athena’s on the losing side this time. It seems to be a pattern on the show: When you’re fighting destiny, it’s ALWAYS a lost cause.
May 31st, 2008 at 8:49 am
Thanks TighFighter. I guess I was overwhelmed with so much Lucy Lawless that I could only pay so much attention
May 31st, 2008 at 8:57 am
kind of off topic but did anyone notice in the episode “scattered” from season 2 that Tigh’s flashbacks show him in a room with the number 3 on it? it’s the part where he’s remembering being reinstated in the colonial service and is made Capt by Adama. i’m sure it’s purely coincidental but kinda interesting considering Tigh is one of the final five and D’anna is the one who can reveal who he is.
May 31st, 2008 at 9:09 am
I don’t have a huge analysis at the moment. I just wanted to say first off how utterly beautiful Adama’s love for Laura is. The way he is just sitting there all alone in a rapto in the vastness of space waiting for his love to return is so beautiful. I had a tear. Seriously.
Also I think it’s so cool that caprica is pregnant. It’s just one step closer to Tigh being outted as a cylon. They may try to use the fetal blood to cure the president only to find out it’s a full cylon child. Either that or one of the guards is secretly a Baltar fan and let Baltar in to have some “alone time” with Caprica and it’s actually Baltar and Capricas kid. As it stands we think it is Tighs, so I think this will lead to tigh being outted. Then Adama will be put back in charge.
May 31st, 2008 at 9:38 am
In response to your opening statement – Why would Sky care about American Holidays? We are not in America, it means nothing to us we are in a different country. Only the typical arrogance of a yank would assume that the rest of the world would stop viewing BSG just because you were not.
Up yours!
May 31st, 2008 at 9:39 am
oh and this means that now we will be ahead of you each week – unlucky for you.
Maybe I could write a review for you all in advance of you actually watching it.
Or maybe not.
Ha Ha
May 31st, 2008 at 10:10 am
@ Liam : Great to know you are ahead of us in something
May 31st, 2008 at 10:18 am
Liam
I’m not sure who said what to put you in such a rude way but rest assured people here don’t think the world revolves around us. Here just like there and every other nation it has been my honor to go had ignorant people. Don’t be part of the proublum but rather the solution. Think of how great of an ambassador you be?
Now here is to the citizens of Earth.
May 31st, 2008 at 10:20 am
Just a brief comment on the possibility that D’anna outs Roslin as the final cylon. This does not necesarily mean that she is the final cylon it is possible that D’anna is messing with Roslins head for some reason, and for all we know the next line by D’anna could be “Only Joking!!”
May 31st, 2008 at 10:29 am
Could the final Cylon be the Galactica itself – just throwin’ it out there, maybe…
Remember those cylon transponders that were found on galactica in season 1? Wasn’t one of them used to get a Raptor aboard a Basestar?
Then the 4 of the 5 came together onboard the Galactica – they heard the music there – remember what Tigh said, “It’s in the Frakkin’ ship”. Galactica’s power was acting funny in the lead up to the cylon switch being flipped ( the 4 waking up) and then of course the main power outage itself – which wasn’t explained. Roslin reacted to this I think not because she is a Cylon but because of her being on the Galactica. Make any sense to anyone…?
May 31st, 2008 at 10:35 am
No, the Galactica cannot be the final cylon. Three saw the Final Five standing before her and they were all humanoids. This is an old theory that has had holes shot into it many times over.
May 31st, 2008 at 10:39 am
Sorry, Liam, but Sky One has decided to show the next episodes AFTER the US. So, looks like you Brits can go back to bowing to your masters.
May 31st, 2008 at 10:48 am
One word to describe this episode – filler.
May 31st, 2008 at 11:18 am
Hello all,
I’ve been reading this forum for a while, but this is my first real post. So, I’ll jump in with my thoughts on this episode.
Like others I’m a bit disappointed that we were left hanging after “Jump!” There’s an old adage in writing, “Show, don’t tell.” I’d rather see the destruction of the Resurrection Hub than be told that it’s done.
I have a problem with the whole “Lee is President” story arc. Here is where it conflicts with my willing suspension of disbelief. If Tom Zarek is the Vice President, then there should be no need to find an acting President. After all, that’s what the Vice President is there for. If the President is no longer able to continue in office, the VP (who is an elected official) takes over. I admit that this is a very USA-centric view, but I don’t remember the Colonial government being described as a parliamentary system.
So, making Lee acting President makes no sense. Especially since Roslin is still alive, and will presumably come back in a future episode. The only reason for President Adama that I can think of is a future civil war in the human fleet.
The Romo Lampkin head-cat thing confused me because I thought that the cat was around when Lee was visiting. Then Lee says that the cat has been dead for weeks. Did their committee of two take weeks to go through the list of possible acting Presidents? And who killed the cat? Other humans? The Cylons when Lampkin was leaving the colonies? Then it would be dead for a few years? If it was humans, why did they kill it?
Just a few thoughts.
Tom
May 31st, 2008 at 11:41 am
“Liam – In response to your opening statement – Why would Sky care about American Holidays? We are not in America, it means nothing to us we are in a different country. Only the typical arrogance of a yank would assume that the rest of the world would stop viewing BSG just because you were not. Up yours”
The reason why people say that is because it is an american tv show and is subjected to american holidays. Ironically BSG is filmed in Vancouver Canada, the same city I live in, but we don’t get to see American shows during thier holidays. It’s not meant in a disrespectful way. It’s simply because it’s an american show. Thats usually the way it works. I’m canadian and even I was surprised that other people got it. It usually doesn’t work that way. So be happy that you got to see it when the rest of the world didn’t. I wish we were that lucky. I love americans even if my favorite show gets put on hold for their holidays. We’re all one.
As for next weeks episode. I think the promo is a teaser…. the cruelest of all teasers. It makes it look like D’anna is telling Roslyn she’s a cylon, but RDM said that the final cylon is not in the last supper pictures… so it can’t be roslyn… Can it?
May 31st, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Also, I read on the BSG forums that SkyOne won’t be airing The Hub on Tuesday. So it looks like things might get back to normal
May 31st, 2008 at 12:43 pm
All I know is that Dr. Cottle is going to kill himself once the fleet reaches earth, and he finds out there are anti-tobacco laws all over the planet.
Anyways, I don’t know why people keep on telling that they didn’t like this episode. It is my second favorite episode this season. I loved the fact that we don’t get to see what happened to the basestar.
May 31st, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Ok. So the FInal cylon is not the Galactica then – maybe not…but with the show starting to go further down the esoteric route I think anything is possible. The final 5 are different after all – maybe they have existed for thousands of years as some form of trancended beings which have the ability to take physical form when necessary. D’Anna looked at them all and I think she only recognised one of them – was the one she recognised the final one or one of the others?
Just one more point on who the fifth Cylon turns out to be. Whoever it is, it will have to be a shock/big revelation right? But if we are to believe RDM and the final model is not in the ‘Last Supper’ picture – then that means that it will not be a major character, and if that is the case then whats the hook? What will make it the big OMG moment it needs to be?
I have to say I am more interested in the discovery of Earth and what it will mean to the ‘Humans’ and the Cylons.
So how will it all end. Well there have been a lot of Star Trek references this season and it is my opinion that if you watch the final season finale of Deep Space Nine and compare some of the similarities (War, Religion, the Prophets, Pah Wraiths and the Emissary ) then I think thats where we might be going – except darker of course.
May 31st, 2008 at 1:14 pm
“Ok. So the FInal cylon is not the Galactica then – maybe not…but with the show starting to go further down the esoteric route I think anything is possible. The final 5 are different after all – maybe they have existed for thousands of years as some form of trancended beings which have the ability to take physical form when necessary. D’Anna looked at them all and I think she only recognised one of them – was the one she recognised the final one or one of the others?
Just one more point on who the fifth Cylon turns out to be. Whoever it is, it will have to be a shock/big revelation right? But if we are to believe RDM and the final model is not in the ‘Last Supper’ picture – then that means that it will not be a major character, and if that is the case then whats the hook? What will make it the big OMG moment it needs to be? ”
it’s possible D’anna only recognized 1 of the 5 but it had to be somebody the cylons had either killed/maimed/hurt in some way. i’m basing this on D’anna’s response when she addressed one of the five at the temple of the five – she said something like, “you…..i’m sorry, I had no idea.” she could’ve been talking to Tigh for all we know (since he lost his eye in the prison camp). so, it has to be someone from S1 or S2 and a character we know. I’m still curious if it’s Adm Cain or not. if it is, it would make sense because Gina had killed Cain. but, I think someone may have pointed out that Gina didn’t download into a new body because there were no resurrection ships nearby when she detonated the nuclear bomb. but it would also be a complete mindfuck if it was because Cain hated the cylons as much as Tigh did. we know that Cain’s body was ejected into space after receiving a ceremonial funeral. maybe somebody intercepted it and she “resurrected” somehow. I really don’t know. there’s so much we don’t know about the F5 it’s hard to tell who’s who.
May 31st, 2008 at 2:32 pm
So…every week I get in here and generally speaking I love what I read. This week I come in here and everyone is “stupid” or a “yank” or whatever. I’m quite frankly embarrassed for many of you that result to name calling and meanness. Frankly, if I was Matt or Nat I’d shut the place down when people start becoming so immature that it comes down to name calling. Passion does not give anyone the right to be uncivl or antagonistic. Stating your opinion is fine, we all do it here every week. Stating that someone is anything other than a human being because they don’t feel as you do is medieval and immature. Folks, I’m proud to be here with anyone that has a passion and desire to talk good or bad about this show…but I don’t care to see us acting like troglodytes in 10,000B.C. RESPECT is the mantra to keep here…when you talk crap to people here you’re ultimately talking crap and taking a crap on the two gracious people that provide this site to us…MATT & NAT!
*Climbing down from the pulpit* Now then…
This episode for me wasn’t THAT bad. I can definitely see where it went wrong, for a one episode arc…but remember, we have a full season and 2 episodes to go so we have NO idea what repercussions this episode will have on the series as a whole.
I have decided that for myself I am going to take each episode in stride and start enjoying it again for what it is. I’m fried over analyzing who is or isn’t a Cylon or who is or isn’t in love, etc. I want to watch each episode unfurl and get everything I can from it.
I really liked the Tigh/Adama battle. I took particular pride when Adama asked Saul “do you have any idea how many times I’ve had to fix that model?” LOL! If you know the true story about what Ediie did to that model and what that model is in real life you can have a great laugh about that. The fact that Adama is so unfocused anymore that the pregnancy was absorbed and tolerated is just powerful. At this point I think Adama would accept anything or anybody that wants to put an end to the pain and uncertainty of his people.
I like Romo Lampkin. I always have and most likely always will. He is a deep individual with eccentric attributes. He is well spoken and he is flat out deliberate in everything he does. Yes, the whole Lee for President arc was a bit contrived and now that I watched it again (Adalla) I have a flat feeling coming off of it. That being said however, I think Romo will play a very pivotal role somewhere down the line.
I’m super pissed that Natalie is dead! Or is she? She seems awfully important…important enough o put on the last supper pic…would she really be killed off that easily? That would make her appearance this season pretty much pointless. She was my favorite 6 too, damn!
Folks, let the story unfold…for the most part (95% of the time) we aren’t disappointed, give the BSG team time to tell their story and for Frak’s sake HAVE FUN…enjoy the show, don’t ruin it for yourself by over analyzing it. Can’t we all just get along?
May 31st, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Way to be, Adam.
May 31st, 2008 at 2:55 pm
Well, being a pesky American, I just saw the episode and I’m not sure how I feel about it yet.
Does anyone remember the conversation between Sharon/Athena and the Six back on Caprica? They were trying to get Helo to fall in love with Sharon, because they needed him to love her to impregnate her. At least, I think I remember that being the gist of that plot point. So that brings to light the question, does Tigh love Caprica 6? Does Caprica 6 love Tigh? Or is his projection of Ellen onto 6 enough of a love match to allow him to impregnate her? What does that make her child? What is Baltar going to do about this one?
Kudos for the look on Tigh’s face when Adama told him that he’s ‘learned a lot’ about himself since New Caprica! That was priceless, and I both love and hate the irony of the whole human fleet now being under that command of a Cylon!
May 31st, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Also, kudos to Bear for a) making a theme for Romo and b) bringing back the millitary theme! The millitary theme has been one of my favorites, and has been used so sparingly. It was used beautifully in this episode! Hope it makes it onto the ssn 4 soundtrack. An episode may be mediocre, but the music will nearly always be superb. Bear all the way!
May 31st, 2008 at 3:12 pm
Oops, forgot a comment there. I got ahead of myself on the submit button.
I’m also wondering about Romo being a Cylon. Or at least, the writer’s are tossing that new bone out there for us. There’s the music bit, hints of projection and such, but to be honest, how many people have they hinted at so far!?! I’m strting to go crazy trying to keep track of it all! I don’t think it’s going to be anyone they point to. I think they are using all this pointing to draw us away from the real Final Cylon. Just IMHO.
May 31st, 2008 at 3:18 pm
That’s true, does that mean that Caprica 6 loves Tigh? She does ask him though, so maybe. Thinking about this though, I’m gunna still have to go with it’s Baltar’s kid because she spent a lot of time talking about how she loves Baltar. Also makes it so that the plot doesn’t have to change to allow cylons to have babies with other cylons. And yes I heard the “they’re hybrids” theory, but I still think that that would weaken the story. However since the F5 were supposedly created on Earth, I will agree that they could be physiologically different from the other cylons and could function through different rules than the other cylons.
May 31st, 2008 at 3:39 pm
I can’t remember if I’ve said this before, or on this site but it’s very possible that Ellen was a sleeper agent cylon and an older version of Six. Technically Tigh is only 20 years old. He didn’t meet Ellen untill she was a bit older than the way Six appears now. What if he comes across a Six that is Ellen re-awakened??? Just a thought.
May 31st, 2008 at 3:57 pm
Good point Kristy! We never did find out if Ellen was a cylon during the episode when she was “found” in the fleet. That was the last episode when Baltar could still “detect” cylons through a blood test. Whatever happened with that anyway?
May 31st, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Patrick – Good point Kristy! We never did find out if Ellen was a cylon during the episode when she was “found” in the fleet. That was the last episode when Baltar could still “detect” cylons through a blood test. Whatever happened with that anyway?
I believe that since Boomer got tested and Baltar said she was not a cylon even though he knew she was one they thought the tests didn’t work as once thought and decided not to waist their time.
May 31st, 2008 at 5:02 pm
The way I heard D’Anna in the preview was, “You know about the final five, but you don’t know that you’re one of them.(?)” Given the way the preview was cut, it isn’t clear that she is speaking directly to Roslin there. She isn’t necessarily speaking to the final Cylon either. She could be expressing incredulity towards one (i.e. Anders) of the known final five who pretend to be human and unaware of the identities of (four of) the final five. She could also be lying in an attempt to sow discord and/or protect the final five. I’m not saying that she isn’t speaking to the final Cylon, but there are other possibilities.
I’m still waiting for the Gayatri mantra (from the music of the main title) to have some major relevance to the show. If the words bear no CLEAR pertinence to the show, that will be a waste. If that is the case, they might as well have had someone read a grocery list in Tamasheq and put it to music. You could make a case that it does bear some pertinence (hence why I put ‘clear’ in capital letters), but it could be more closely tied in, either through it relating to the nature of the Cylon god and/or because Savitr is a solar deity, and solar deity recognition exists in Colonial religion as evidenced by the call signs ‘Helo’ (Helios) and ‘Apollo’.
May 31st, 2008 at 5:15 pm
Not really — because then I’d have to get twitchy about the fact that everyone speaks and writes perfectly idiomatic modern English, measure distances in miles and so forth… and I just don’t have that much nervous energy to spare.
And on the meta level that really disturbs me about where this show is ultimately going. I know “all this has happened before, and all this will happen again” is a mantra in the BSG ‘verse, but if everyone is nothing more than puppets on some cosmic strings, just going through the same old script one more time, what the hell point is there is being alive? That’s what I found so affecting about Natalie — she understood the definition of an addict someone told me in rehab: A person who keeps doing the same old shit, and expecting a different outcome.
May 31st, 2008 at 7:02 pm
I highly doubt that D’Anna was speaking to Roslin. Roslin has the type of personality and given that she is a politician she would look directly at the person speaking to her if being spoken to. No, the cut shows her looking at someone to her left, then immediately shifting her gaze to D’Anna once she states that whoever she was previously looking at is a Cylon. The most logical person would be that D’Anna outs Anders. His presence aboard the rebel basestar is highly probable because at least fifty percent of Galactica’s air wing was transferred to the basestar. Moreover, Anders would be an asset in assaulting the HUB because he has ground combat experience, possibly CQB experience.
I think the most important thing about the episode “Sine Qua Non” was the pregnancy of Six but not in and of itself. Rather, I think the fact that a Final Five can impregnate one of the seven totally shatters our (or at least your) preconceptions of what a cylon is. Guess RDM was truthful when he said the five were fundamentally different than the seven. Rather, I think Six’s pregnancy by Tigh is to prepare the viewer for something to come. I do not think that Baltar could possibly be the father of Six’s child because the last time he would have been with her would have been while he was in “captivity.” Further, Baltar’s captivity would have been more than two months (Starbuck’s disappearance) and fifty days ago (Demetrius Mission); thus, it his highly likely that had six been impregnated before that time with her small physical frame she would be showing. Consequently, logic states that Tigh is more likely the father than anyone else. If anyone else had been with her during her imprisonment on Galactica it would have been scuttlebut and the Admiral would have known.
I think that the final Cylon will turn out to be female for several reasons: (1) the picture that D’Anna drew of the five arguably contained three males and two females; (2) the standins for the five in the temple of the five contained the same ratio of men to women (although these are not the people who are the five, it is possible that they do represent the fives’ genders); (3) The chalice in the “Last Supper” belongs or has some significance to the last Cylon and the last Cylon is supposed to sit/stand there (assuming RDM is to be believed); the chalice is an ancient symbol of femininity (the divine feminine ( I take this position because the picture is based on Davinci’s Last Supper which allegedly contains symbolic references as per some scholars and fictituous works, including the symbol of the chalice: the V). Therefore, it may indicate that the person to whom it belongs is a woman. One other thing that is then important to take note then is that Tyrol is holding a dagger, which is the opposite symbol of the chalice and represents masculinity. Further RDM said in the EW interview that one should view the knife in context of Tyrol’s son. This comment would seem to suggest some validity to my chalice and dagger analysis. Further, the chalice and dagger are both in the fourth position from their respective ends. I, therefore, believe that whoever is the fifth Cylon is or will be inextricably linked to Galen Tyrol, and it will be a woman.
While I may be wrong, I don’t think anyone has suggested this analysis.
May 31st, 2008 at 11:17 pm
Man 113 comments in two days!!!!!!! Yes dear friends, I went though read every last comment like I was reading a novel.
I will just say this at the top and then drop the subject. I absolutely agree with everything Adam had to say about the immature nature of some of the comments. Did someone put something in the water this week or did the extra wait for the episode drive people mad. I was personaly offended to see the f-bomb used, and not even of the frak variety. I think that is the first I’ve seen cursing on here. Another thing to the posters complaining about the bad reviews… Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. If I like or hate something I’m going to tell you. Rather than attacking the people that didn’t like the show, why just say you disagree and make your counter argument. For example, some one complained about Adama’s reaction to Laura, so I then explained how I felt about plot point and what was happening in my view. Anyways enough pontificating, let’s get back to why we love this site
[blockquote]megan
Not sure what to make of this episode, but I have been working on a theory I thought I’d share:
The Hera Theory:
The hybrid’s prophecies:
“The children of the one reborn will find their own country.” The ONE reborn is actually the “One True God” reborn. Who is this person? Read on.
“The missing three will give you the five who come from the home of the 13th.” The 13th is not the 13th colony, but the 13th cylon. Hera is that cylon. This would explain Hera’s significance to the Final Five: They do not know the location of Earth, but they recognize Hera as the 13th and she will lead the way to Earth.
I believe that Hera, the 13th cylon, is also the One True God reborn. After all, she is “the shape of things to come” and so far this season, it seems like everything is building to the acceptance of the One True God.
But how do 6 and Baltar fit in? What if the One True God selected them to bring him/her forth? Perhaps Caprica was pregnant before the attacks on the colonies and that child was meant to be the One True God’s vessel. Unfortunately, Caprica died in the attacks and therefore, the One True God had to think up a new plan. Enter Helo and Sharon.
But if the One True God did chose 6 and Baltar, why them? Maybe because they are “perfect”. 6 could be seen as the perfect cylon. After all, 6 is a perfect number and from what we know, the 6’s are the only cylons not given human names (Doral, Cavil, Simon, etc.) And Baltar? Baltar is the “perfect” human because he is so deeply flawed. And what are humans if not deeply, fundamentally flawed?
I believe this is the reason Baltar and Caprica have “head” versions of each other. These “angels” are not representations of each other: They, like Hera, are vessels for the One True God. How did Caprica end up on Galactica? You could say it all started with New Caprica. And how did that come to pass? In Downloaded, “Head“ Baltar made Caprica re-think her feelings toward humans, setting the whole scenario into motion. Caprica, because she was meant to be Hera’s mother, is now her protector. And Baltar, who was meant to be Hera’s father, is now the person chosen to spread the message of the One True God. How did he learn this message? Through his “Head” 6.
Ergo: Hera is the key to everything!
Maybe it’s a crazy theory and not a single bit of it is true, but I thought it was cool, so I thought I’d share. [blokequote]
I hope I did that right.
Awesome theory megan. I totally agree that Hera is the key to where this show is heading in conjunction with the visions of the next realm. My theory is that Baltar and Six are supposed to deliver Hera to Earth to begin the next cycle. I believe that is the interruption of the Opera House. But Frak, maybe it could be Caprica’s baby. Hehe Caprica preggers is throwing me into such a head loop.
Krirsty you mentioned the theory about Ellen being an older Six model in the BSGPilots chat Friday. Another awesome theory!!! I guess the whole Caprica Tigh relationship is messing with my head. Like I said before, I think Tigh was thinking of Ellen’s love when he got Caprica pregnant. Does that mean Caprica loves Tigh? Holy frak, I just thought of something. Maybe Caprica was projecting Baltar onto to Tigh the same he has been projecting Ellen onto Caprica. I’d love to hear more of what people think is going on with Caprica and Tigh.
May 31st, 2008 at 11:20 pm
[blockquote] Damn I forgot the /!!! Meh I wish we had editing options. [/blockquote]
May 31st, 2008 at 11:22 pm
lol What am I doing wrong? Any help?
June 1st, 2008 at 2:15 am
The code requires greater-than and lesser-than symbols, not brackets. This:
blah blah blah, not thisyada yada yada[/code]. Of course, substitute blockquote for code.June 1st, 2008 at 2:17 am
I also wish we could edit our posts. My example did not work, so I’ll try this:
June 1st, 2008 at 2:19 am
Okay, I give up. When you type the word blockquote use these: , not these: [].
June 1st, 2008 at 2:42 am
Hmm.. I think D’anna is talking to Baltar, he and roslin is the only main caracters that we know is on the rebelship.
“You know about the final five, What you don´t know is that you are one of them.” Baltar knows about the final five but dont think he is one himself. so maybey he is. I mean, he has been projecting all the time from the beggining. and in the the miniseries when we first meet him he is talking about why he thinks A.I has to come back into the human lives. and the strongest argument, he has been tortured by D’anna and the cylons have puched him around and has put a gun to his head and has right infront of him talked about exectuing him. So that would point out why se is being so sorry in the temple before she died.
June 1st, 2008 at 2:53 am
June 1st, 2008 at 2:54 am
Eureka!!!!
Thanks Irish
June 1st, 2008 at 5:29 am
June 1st, 2008 at 5:30 am
The above post didn’t work…LOL…I give up..LOL!
June 1st, 2008 at 6:15 am
Hi,
This was not the best episode but some stories have to be told en set in place for the shows final episodes.
I just hope that we don’t have to wait to 2009 for the shows final episodes.
loking forward to the new podcast Matt & Nat
greetings
June 1st, 2008 at 6:50 am
June 1st, 2008 at 10:18 am
LOL are you poking fun at me or testing the quote out?
I’m such an idiot. I just realized George said Frak and not the F-bomb. I guess it was the context and that I’m so obsessed with BSG that Frak is becoming offensive. lol
June 1st, 2008 at 11:51 am
Just saw the episode. I didn’t think it was as bad as some of you were saying. It was totally an Adama episode, which was great. I really like how he finally admitted to Lee and himself that he can’t live without Roslin. Hopefully he’ll tell Roslin too. I love the idea of him reading the book and waiting for Roslin.
When Crossroads came out and “All along the Watchtower” first played, I thought that it was the same song Boomer and now Athena sang. Guess I was wrong, but its cool to hear it again. Wonder if it has any special meaning for the upcoming episodes.
I couldn’t stop laughing when Adama fell on the model ship in the fight. Hopefully they used a prop this time. I read that back when Adama broke the model ship after Starbuck died, it was not in the script and the model he broke was a museum piece worth thousands.
So I was checking up some posts on gizmodo and came across this: http://gizmodo.com/393426/cylon-baseships-run-windows-xp
It seems that the cylons and I suffer from the same problem. lol. Windows keeps crashing! I wonder if this is a clue to the start of the whole cylon conflict. The Colonials wanted to convert the cylons to run on a Mac OS. And as we all know, most cylons are not and do not want to be user friendly.
Side note: I finished reading the posts for “Guess whats coming for Dinner” and noticed that somewhere in middle was Matt’s birthday. Hope you had a good one buddy. Most of us probably weren’t there to sing to you, so in our place….. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa-L4uvATbE
June 1st, 2008 at 1:10 pm
testing the quote….and making a reference to that annoying verizon wireless commercial
June 1st, 2008 at 2:07 pm
Hi All,
First up; I was a bit mixed on this episode, and confused. I was totally confused with the whole Romo thing, w/the dead cat, wasn’t there another cat? Then the whole thing w/his wife and kids, and not going back, and getting on a ship, and then how the cat was his wife’s pet? I thought Romo had broken up w/his wife, isn’t that what he said to Lee when he said that beautiful quote about love in The Sun Also Rises? (it was that ep right?) I am a huge Romo fan, and I did not like the whole Lee scene. It would have been better if it had been more focused upon how Lee did not think he was ready, and could not do it–then we could have seen him saying how he really felt to Starbuck (like they used to do), and Romo pointing a gun at him to make him take the job. What I also don’t like is how they give Lee’s character such weak episodes to define his character; remember Blackmarket? I think he is one of the most real, and amazing characters on this show, and even though the eps where we see the real him are weak, they make sense to me, but should be given their due and woven into the fabric of the show in a better way.
So as for Lee: well, I love how he really has found his calling, just like he told Starbuck when she got back. He has finally found something to believe in, saving the human race, and giving hope to people by helping to restructure their society. When he looks at Romo and says fine, shoot me, we still saw shades of old Lee, remember in Blackmarket? Except Lee really wanted to die at that point. But this time it was a risk, it was I dare you, and I know you won’t do it; because deep down you want to live just as much as I do.
As for Adama, Tigh and Lee–well they all understand eachother on one point: they know how it feels to be unable to live without another person. Notice how Lee looked at his Dad when he told him, it was like Lee was hearing his own thoughts about Kara–which I found interesting considering that Adama never seemed to notice that about Lee and Kara. Lee already knew, interesting how his Dad could never show the same clarity towards his son. This is when age has finally made the difference and Adama felt that he could do what he does and know that Lee and Kara had their paths set for them, and they no longer needed him. You could see it in the eyes of Kara when she looks at Lee, and he looks back at her, it’s just the two of them now. They knew that they will never see Adama again if Laura does not come back.
Tigh and Adama: they needed a fight, and it made sense they did it w/eachother, when it wouldn’t matter in the end. Adama really could not admonish Tigh in the end, as Tigh couldn’t either. Plus, Tigh understands the love Adama has for Laura, but Adama also knows that his feelings about the cylons are no longer black & white either, because of his relationship w/Athena. I think this is why the pregnancy takes a back seat in their interactions. Plus, he did notice that Tigh had changed since he last took command.
Also, was Athena singing the Gaeta song? She seems like she’s lost now and deathly afraid of losing Hera again. As for Tigh taking over as Commander? Well I guess the Final Five will be taking us to Earth; just not as we thought they would. I loved it in the last epi when they were sitting there, and you could see Tigh and Tory thinking, we are supposed to lead them to earth? Frack! Got me, we have no idea how to do that.
Zarek, oh Zarek! I hope we see more of him, I have missed him, and I hope we see a lot of his dynamic w/Lee. As for D’Anna telling Roslin she’s one of the 5; no way. Sadly I think it may be Baltar, I hope not.
I’ll have more later
A
June 1st, 2008 at 3:56 pm
I have a question that I haven’t seen discussed. We saw that when Tory smacked Cally she clearly seemed to have superior strength. I think it was generally assumed and commented that this change came about as a result of her realization that she was a Cylon.
What I don’t understand is that during the fight between Tigh and Adama, there was no indication that Tigh was any stronger than a regular person. Why this difference from Tory ?
June 1st, 2008 at 5:25 pm
umm.. well, tory maybey embraises the cylon part while tigh reject it in that he tries to be as mutch non- cylon as he can be…. or it is just something they did nog remember and forget..
June 1st, 2008 at 5:43 pm
I’m making fun of you AND testing the quote out!
June 1st, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Tigh’s Reaction to the you have grown a lot in the last few years!
My Zod It comic Gold!
Loved this ep!, they are really Picking up!
And How Can The Six News be True?
Also What will it be?
Though It Does Fit in to my 9-12 being the most Human Idea.
June 1st, 2008 at 6:03 pm
Even more reason why Caprica may be pregnant with Baltar’s child: A lot of people are deadset that Hera is Caprica and Baltar’s child because his Head Six told him that their child would be born in the cell that Sharon was in. Granted, I never took anything that Head Six said as valid 100% fact, but a majority of the fans believe that Head Six is telling the truth. So, if Head Six’s statement of “Our child will be born in this cage”, than the statement is true because Caprica Six and Baltar have had sex and Caprica is in the same cell on Galactica.
Now, many people would dispute this due to the fact that Athena had Hera and so far, Hera was with Six and Baltar in the visions. But if you take Head Six’s statement as literal as possible, than that means Hera isn’t Baltar and Six’s child. Why? A: Hera wasn’t “born” in the same conventional sense, a Cesarean section was performed, and as a result, she was a “premie”. B: Hera wasn’t “born” in the cell like Head Six said their child would, she was “born” in the Sick Bay. C: Hera in no way looks like Baltar or Six, but looks more like Athena than Helo.
Now, to put it in the way Roslin tells things… Fact: Caprica was sleeping with Baltar. Fact: She’s done it more than once. Fact: She is pregnant. Fact: Cottle did not say how far along she was, leaving the possiblity that it’s Baltar’s kid open. Fact: She is in the same cell that Athena once occupied. Coincidence or not, it seems way too much out there to be one. If anything, right now, it’s a 50/50.
June 1st, 2008 at 7:10 pm
CB2001
Wow, hell yeah CB2001. I was just saying it was Baltar’s kid mostly cuz it weakens the story. That is some well thought out arguments. To me that all just put it in stone unless the writers frack the story up still.
Athena
As for the strength of the cylons, maybe they can control it to a degree. After the last thing Saul would want to do is to hurt is oldest and best friend. Maybe he also thought about holding back his strength? I don’t know but it was nice to see the guys let off some steam.
June 1st, 2008 at 8:15 pm
I think you are right Atreus1987. Tori knew full on that she was going to kill Calley, plus she has fully embraced the idea that she’s a cylon. Tigh on the other hand is not as comfortable with the idea. Especially after 2 wars. And Tigh never had any intentions of killing Bill he was just angry that his loyalty was in question. Espeicially after all he’s done for the fleet. It was a really big insult that really pissed him off, but no enough to kill his best friend.
Has anyone else noticed that Tigh hasn’t been drinking since he found out he’s a cylon. It’s like the turmoil is gone now. He knows and doesn’t need to drink it away anymore.
To continue with my earlier point about the possiblity that Ellen is an older 6 cylon sleeper agent. I remember that when Ellen was alive she was always trying to get Tigh to go for power and to be utterly ruthless even when he didn’t want to be. Seems very similar to the way head six is with Baltar, the way head baltar is with Caprica, Gina and Helena etc….
June 1st, 2008 at 8:52 pm
“You know about the final five, What you don´t know is that you are one of them.” I’m gonna take a guess and say D’Anna was referring to Anders and Laura was reacting to that statement. They’re not going to reveal the final Cylon so soon. D’Anna at this point is not aware that the final four know they are Cylons. Anders is also the only final four Cylon who does not seem to have confronted his new identity like the others have. This would force such an event.
I like how there is almost nill interaction b/w Lee and Kara. Last they spoke, it was quite intimate. Now they barely spare e/o a glance (but when they do, it’s pretty heavily-laden). It makes me think they are going to get together in the end, in some fashion.
It’s interesting that Adama told Tigh to take the fleet to Earth as best he can. Haven’t the final five been to Earth?
Romo has always been a very calculated individual. I think his out-of-character ranting and gun-point action was to force Lee to articulate to himself his merits for the presidency. The fact that Lee gave Romo a dog later I think is his way of acknowledging that. We all know Romo has used his bag of tricks in the past to make a point in his favor.
June 2nd, 2008 at 2:01 am
you kind of see evidence of Tigh’s strength, but in an indirect way. the first few episodes of season 2 you see the flashback scenes of Saul as a younger viper pilot. you also get to see him beating the crap out of a few people – this isn’t really indicative of his cylon strength but it shows you he’s no pushover either.
June 2nd, 2008 at 2:22 am
Jaye
Yeah, That bugged me too. Though Tigh did throw Adama across the room. Maybe Tigh knew his strength and was holding back because he didn’t want to hurt his friend. I love how Tigh has stayed loyal even though he is a Cylon.
Adam
Glad I could help… Now shut up before I airlock your ass.
wekerr1
“The one eyed bulge” hehe Hogan has made an art of bulging his eye. Heck even before Tigh lost his eye he was the master of eye bulging. I was laughing at that scene too. What were the exact lines? Something like… “You’ve changed Saul. You are not the same man you used to be.”?
CB2001
Great rectcon analysis of Head Six’s meaning when she said to Baltar that their child would be born in Sharon’s cell. The only problem I have with that theroy is that it doesn’t look like Caprica has been pregnant that long. I don’t see how Baltar could’ve gotten her preggers. Remember Cap and Baltar haven’t seen eachother since last mid-season. There only two ways I can see how they could’ve been together. One Caprica is projecting Baltar onto Tigh the same way Tigh is projecting Ellen. The other is that maybe like Torie and Tyrol, Tigh has come under Baltar’s influence and he sneaking Baltar into the cell. The only problem I have with those two theroies is that they are major plot points we haven’t seen on camera. I don’t think they’d pull a hack move of not showing that part of the story to be reveled later. At least not with this storyline.
One final thing. Like Rangeelah, I’ve seen many people thinking Anders is on the baseship. There is no evidence that he went with the President. The last time we saw Anders was when the “Four” were having a meeting and Sam was going on about Gaeeta’s singing. The only other two significant charters shown on the baseship were Baltar and Helo.
June 2nd, 2008 at 2:54 am
After rewatching the preview very closely, Roslin is not only in the shot but D’anna is looking right at her or possibly slightly to her right. So unless they accidentally or intentionally stood practically holding hands, she is talking to Roslin at least. Now possibly she is looking at Roslin to drive the point home while she talks to Anders for dramatic effect, or she is talking to Roslin. Personally I think it is that she is talking to Anders while looking at Roslin because, well simply because I think they’ll make a big deal of the revealing of the final cylon.
June 2nd, 2008 at 2:55 am
ayo, mat + nat. kind of off topic here but I was wondering if you guys might be able to provide more insight into the production of bsgcast.com – perhaps a FAQ section. where do you film? where did you get those cool BSG insignia plaques? just a thought
June 2nd, 2008 at 2:58 am
Here’s what I’m thinking: Only the Final Five can produce offspring. Chief did it, now Tigh’s done it, so I’m thinking that Helo is the final cylon. It’s not “love” as they theorized, but something that those 5 could do and it was thought of as a mistake somehow for them to reproduce, so the other 7 cylons weren’t given that gift. Athena and Caprica Six only managed it with final fives.
And in the promo for next week with Three saying “You know about the final five, but you don’t know that you’re one of them,” she could very well be talking to Helo. I think it would be pretty awesome for him to be the fifth.
June 2nd, 2008 at 5:12 am
gaseous
ayo, mat + nat. kind of off topic here but I was wondering if you guys might be able to provide more insight into the production of bsgcast.com – perhaps a FAQ section. where do you film? where did you get those cool BSG insignia plaques? just a thought
That’s a nice idea gaseous. Maybe you guys could do a making of/ behing the scenes cast. That would certainly give you a filler episode during the hiatus.
June 2nd, 2008 at 6:04 am
interesting theory. I can see Helo being a cylon, but I’m still clinging to the idea that the 5th is female (just to balance things out). D’anna could also be talking to another fringe character like Seelix. that preview with D’anna will probably end up as one of those cliffhanger endings too
June 2nd, 2008 at 6:09 am
” ignore the fact that the British SkyOne Network doesn’t care about American Holidays”
Erh saying the Bristish sky one channel dosnt have respect for the American holiday is a load of bs. The fact is, BSG airs on tuesdays in Britain, not Fridays. So I think it would be nice of you to correct your statement.
Anyway not a bad episode, but wasnt what I expected, was to eager to see what happened with Roslin and Baltar tbh.
June 2nd, 2008 at 6:40 am
Adalla and Atreus1987
I see where you guys are coming from now. I apologize, I was a bit out of line. I was a in a weird head space the other day. (My brothers were trashing the show and I was feeling a little defensive)
I see now that it wasn’t 90% negative. I was just skimming before and it seemed like there was more negative. I see now that I was wrong. I also see that I was being a bit of a hypocrite. I was ranting about you guys ranting. (At least I tried to be civil about it.)
Adalla, I re-read your response to some comments from george. I agree a little bit. The whole used car thing made sense to me.
Anyway. I’d like to say sorry. And I will try my best from now on to avoid the negative comments. Thank you Adalla for putting a warning on to say that you would be negative about the episode.
June 2nd, 2008 at 6:49 am
i agree with a fringe character being the final cylon, they made Tory one of the four.
Gaseous Clay says it might be Seelix which would make some sense (namely she didn’t die on Kobol or New Caprica, and spent lots of time with at least one of the Four)
also, at the beginning of ‘Guess What’s Coming To Dinner?’ during the pre-jump countdown the camera flashes from face to face in time to the countdown. number 7 is Seelix, number 6 is Natalie, who is a Six. just seems like an odd coincidence. i don’t think any of the other numbers match up, 8 isn’t Athena and 2 isn’t Leoben for instance
but still, little things add up…
June 2nd, 2008 at 7:08 am
BSGinvictus,
Hey dude, it’s straight. It’s easy to read something in the writers thoughts that the writer didn’t mean to say, and in that way you weren’t out of line. If I thought someone was ragging on this show I’d defend it.
Shiver,
Seelix? That seems to be a stretch. Doesn’t weaken the plot in my view though, so could be, but I’m still betting on someone who is in power or able to take power. Plus Seelix wouldn’t serve an immediate purpose for the cylons/ humans mission for earth. So they’d have to build on her character in my opinion.
June 2nd, 2008 at 7:36 am
Hmmm…. I didn’t hate this episode but I wasn’t leaping about and singing it’s praises after it ended either. Everyone seemed kind of strange…as in “stranger” strange. As “in who the frak are you folks?” strange. I keep wondering if everyone seemed out of character to me because I am becoming senile and can’t remember what they used to be like or…that they have been through so much that they are even more batshit crazy than I am and it is just now catching up with them. I also wonder why in my very long years of life no guy has risked the fate of humanity by handing it over to a Cylon and going and reading a book in a Raptor for *me*. Am I not worthy? And what is up with my dear Starbuck and her “We’re Going The Wrong Way ” mantra? She certainly does seem to be a calmer …uh…..whatever she is now. So she is ok with wherever it is they are going now? And where is that exactly? Where did they jump ( minus the lovely Admiral and his book) to exactly? Are they back to following Roslin’s old plan? And Romo…I adore Mark Shepherd … but that whole bit with him just felt gratuitous. I am glad he got a proper pet though. I am not fond of cats ( even though I have three) and do approve of dogs ( even though I only have two) but I digress…
The episode got us somewhere , I just wasn’t crazy about the trip there. Next week should be more fun.
June 2nd, 2008 at 7:43 am
Athena Asked:
>Also, was Athena singing the Gaeta song? She seems like she’s lost now and deathly afraid of losing Hera again.
June 2nd, 2008 at 7:45 am
No Athena, She was however, singing the song that she Boomer sang to the Raider that Starbuck brought to Galactica way back whenever that was ( season one?) Nice touch, I thought.
Ruth, who doesn’t quite know how to attribute quotes on this site…
June 2nd, 2008 at 8:23 am
perhaps it’s a stretch, but as shiver pointed out, they made Tory one of the final five so you never know in the world of BSG. I only pulled Seelix’s name out of hat because she’s female and she’s been with the show on and off since season 1 (I think). plus, we’ve seen her move up in the ranks from medic/knuckle dragger to viper pilot. she does seem like too small of a character to make her the 5th cylon, but it would definitely surprise people if she was. i’m sticking to my “admiral cain is the 5th cylon” theory.
June 2nd, 2008 at 8:45 am
Michael, I soo agree with you and to quote Lee Adama at Baltar’s trial:
“We make our own laws now; our own justice… because we’re not a civilization anymore. We are a gang, and we are on the run, and we have to fight to survive. We have to break rules. We have to bend laws. We have to improvise. But not this time, no. Not this time. Not for Gaius Baltar. (looking at Baltar) No, you…you have to die, because, well, because we don’t like you very much. Because you’re arrogant. Because you’re weak. Because you’re a coward, and we, the mob, want to throw you out of the airlock, because you didn’t stand up to the Cylons and get yourself killed in the process. That’s justice now.”
I think that Baltar is an inadvertent traitor. Initially he did not know that his completely enthralling lover was a cylon… who could have guessed that at the time? However, I do believe he is a coward and a survivor. One thing I can say for him: whatever role he is playing at any given point he throws himself into it and truly believes in it. Baltar reminds me of those Roman emperors truly self-serving, self-destructive and decadent.
His story is not just simply black and white and this makes him one of the most interesting characters on the show. I think it is unfair when everyone calls him a traitor…his character is much more complicated than that. He was given a hard hand of cards to play… in his situation I do not think anyone else would have acted any more nobly. I mean Laura orders people thrown out the airlock without hesitation, Tyrol and Anders and that group murdered several cylon conspirators…
In a way people despise Baltar because he gets away with things, he is selfish…and he enjoys himself, he gets to have a hell of a lot of sex, he is brilliant as a scientist and very seductive. How does he get all those women? He got game! I mean he is this little skinny runty man…maybe he is well endowed! He can be charming and witty I guess… I mean he even got Starbuck into his bed!
So yes I do love Baltar and I do not believe that the show would be the same if he were thrown out the airlock. And who else will play the role of devil when they get to Earth
Also I have to add he lives outside the box too…
Francine
June 2nd, 2008 at 8:52 am
Right after I saw the trailer for next week’s episode I had an idea suddenly hit. Remember: Three wasn’t supposed to have the vision, Baltar was. Could it be possible that she has false information? Maybe she doesn’t just out Roslin (I think its safe to assume that there has to be a wrinkle in this SOMEWHERE, I can’t believe they’d give away information that important in a trailer without there being a twist), maybe she reveals that the Final Five are Roslin. . .and four other people who we know are not Cylons. From a storytelling point of view there are a lot of benefits to this. It would drag the story out further and create more tension amongst the characters. Suddenly Saul, Anders, Chief, and Tory are seeing four people they know to be innocent having their lives shattered. For the audience, it would bring everything into doubt. Would it mean that the ones we know to be the Four aren’t really Cylons after all? Even if THEY are Cylons, does that necessarily exclude Roslin along with the others who have been falsely accused or could Three have been right about her and still wrong about the other Four? The whole thing would make for a really powerful twist and it would undermine everything the viewers believed was certain about this season. I really think this could be the way it will go and I’m on the edge of my seat waiting to hear D’anna call out Roslin along with four others who aren’t actually the Four.
Another theory I just had while skimming the comments on this page deals with Caprica’s pregnancy and is pretty much unrelated to the first theory. Could it be possible that the reason she was able to be impregnated by a Cylon is she is now mortal and can no longer resurrect? It could very well be that when she was impregnated there was no resurrection ship in range. On top of that, resurrection seems to have been denied to all the Sixes anyway. Maybe this is the key the Cylons were looking for. We’ve already gotten the suggestion that mortality is the next step to making them human. Maybe now that they’re mortal there really is nothing to differentiate them (ah, aside from the glowy spines) from humans: they are human. Of course I can’t come up with a scientific basis for this theory, but I’d say its just as valid as the Cylon’s belief that love was required. Just more food for thought.
June 2nd, 2008 at 8:54 am
Clay,
I’m not saying it can’t happen or that it’ll weaken the show, but look at who they chose as the other four. Saul, who is Adama’s right hand man; Chief Tyrol who was in charge of the hanger deck and the union leader; Tory who was Roslin’s trusted advisor; and Ander who was Starbuck’s (who is the harpanger of death) husband. I think it has to be someone just as important to the colonies as the rest of them.
June 2nd, 2008 at 9:14 am
A couple thoughts to throw in here, some about the preview for next week and something that has been bugging me for a while now.
When Adama is looking at the person in the bed for next week’s episode, it looks to me like it Duwalla… I could be wrong, but that’s what it looks like in that little bit of time.
I have been thinking for a while now: who are the programmers for the 7?
It was stated that there were programmers (by a 1) and that they had a reason to program the 7 not to think about the 5. If that is the case then the programmers both know the 5 and the 7. What are they? What they are seems like it may be significant.
That brings me to something that happened in the old show that could be repeated with the information about the programmers. The relation between Count Iblis (the evil supernatural man) and the Imperius Leader. Its scary to think, but could the “Cylon god” be this mysterious programmer(s) that is an evil supernatural being?
June 2nd, 2008 at 9:29 am
Obviously the best part of this episode was the trailer for next week. My advise: DON’T GET ALL WORKED UP! This episode next friday will be very good but there is no way the fifth cylon will be outed. My theory is that Dianna was talking to Anders. Possibly in front of Roslin. That’s exciting because the four will have to come out. The fifth in my opinion…Helo. His terrible suffering is yet to come. Could be the loss of his wife, baby, or both.
June 2nd, 2008 at 9:30 am
BSGinvictus
Hehe you made me laugh with your story about defending BSG to your brothers. Sounds like me trying to win an uphill battle convincing friends and family to watch the show. “IT’S NOT A SCIENCE FICTION SHOW!!!!” sigh
Seelix is the final cylon? Frak, maybe it could be her. I don’t know if any of you read my comment last week about the editing and how the characters had a meaningful relationship with the numbers when Athena is counting down the jump. Just look under my name with a bunch of numbers next to it. Anyways, Seelix was number 7. I think we’ve all come to the conclusion that the final Cylon is 7 in the numbering order. Plus I read an article where Douglas said that so far people are way off about the final Cylon. Seelix would definitely fit the bill of least expected. Certainly the mention above is the first time I’ve considered her as the FC. Another thing is that she is not in the Last Supper picture. It’s hard for me to swallow, but the evidence is there.
BTW if you want to read the article I mentioned, click the link in my name and look under the news heading.
June 2nd, 2008 at 9:52 am
Well, I liked the episode. I don’t need to be fed a steady diet of plot twists, and it’s clear the next episode will begin in time from the jump and bring us to, probably, William Adama in space meeting up with that lot (whoever is left of them). And although it was somewhat silly that Romo Lambkin actually had to think longer than 3 seconds about who the obvious next President should be–Lee I can believe could self-delude himself, he’s good at that–I don’t dislike the Lee-I’m-changing subplot, as others do. I thought it was a daring move, myself, from the start. It would have been so easy to leave Lee as CAG.
Athena really bit it off, that’s for sure. Cylon or not, Adama had her breach of military discipline pegged exactly. Although I do have to wonder why Helo wasn’t in the cell next door for his shenanigans.
If Tigh is the father of the captured 6’s child, that makes me wonder if that isn’t the purpose/design of the 3 of the final 5 we know–to be fathers to “naturally” bred cylons, ie, not all male cylons can impregnate, only the 3 of the 5. That leaves Tory’s role unclear, since it seems any female skinjob can bear a child, but Tory is so flawed now, a murderess who is surely going to get her comeuppance (although many BSG fans, including myself, would call spacing Cally justifiable homicide), that I can’t see her having any role in the future of the combined races (if combined, and if they were ever truly separate races).
Interesting how Tigh didn’t accidentally kill Adama in that fight. Tory has demonstrated cylon-level strength. I guess for the last 5 a conscious choice to “test” one’s cylon strength is required.
Since I’m pretty sure there’s some connection between the LoK and the final 5–I suspect at least the 4 we know may be avatars of the LoK–then Tory could be the bad one, described, I think, in this quote from the hybrid two episodes ago:
“All these things it wants and many more, not because it wishes harm, but because it likes violent vibrations to change constantly.”
June 2nd, 2008 at 9:53 am
Just wanted to chime in, in hopes that somebody knowing all things BSG can help me out with this one. First off, I sincerely hope that RDM and the rest of his writing team don’t “jump the shark” with this awesome series. Last week’s ep, (”Sine Quon Non”) seemed to be heading towards that direction. I DID NOT AT ALL like those utterly USELESS scenes with Lampkin and Adama. Are ya frakkin kiddin’ me with that?! Lampkin was SO over the top nutso, that it made absolutely no sense whatsoever. And how in the world could Lee become Prez without being voted in by the Quorom? There were just far too many gaping holes in that episode. And what about Adama NOT dealing with those mutineers and with Anders for shooting Gaeta? Are all these scenes going to be neatly explained in the “Deleted Scenes” section when Season 4 comes out on DVD? Hmmmm…..
But let’s forget all that. What I’d like explained is this: HOW and WHY would Leoben (in the 1st season, I believe) whisper to Roslin that “Adama is a Cylon”, if supposedly the other Cylons DO NOT KNOW who the Final Five are? It makes no sense. Whether he meant the Admiral or Lee, it makes no sense. I just seriously hope RDM doesn’t suddenly come down with creative amnesia and shamefully become George Lucas and forget all about what was written in previous episodes. Continuity, people!!!! Please!!!!!!!!!
So, can somebody help me out? What’s the deal? Was Leoben possibly misled somehow? And if so, by whom? And WHY??
I hope this show doesn’t disappoint us in the end. I SO hope it keeps its steam and ties up loose ends! And yeah, what’s the deal with Starbuck? Did somebody let the air out of her? What happened to her zealous quest for Earth? Why is she BENIGNLY walking around the ship like some first year cadet?! (Insert enormous SIGH here)
June 2nd, 2008 at 9:58 am
I wouldn’t put it past D’Anna to be playing a Leoben-style mind-frak — after all, I wouldn’t blame her for being very, very pissed and not inclined to be helpful. Also another nitpick: If all the Threes were ‘boxed’, are there thousands (millions?) of Threes on the Resurrection Hub? Or was Prophet-D’Anna the only one allowed to download before having her consciousness ripped to the ultimate data stick, just so Cavil could rub her nose in the fact she doomed her entire line to a living death? ‘Cause he’s a jerk, and rolls like that.
Who the frak knows — at this point I’m willing to believe absolutely anything.
My theory is that the Final Five are fundamentally different from the Significant Seven in ways we don’t know yet. I don’t actually think the SS really understand themselves or the truth about their nature and purpose. But think about the Cylon theory that the real barrier to them reproducing isn’t biological/mechanical but almost metaphysical — “love”. For me, if you want to reduce Caprica-Six’s journey through the whole series to a tag-line it’s this:
GOD REALLY IS LOVE — AND LOVE HURTS. REALLY FRAKING HURTS 24/7
She truly came to love Baltar — and for that love, in Downloaded, she came to believe the near-total genocide of the human race was a profound sin. (And I don’t think Cap-Six is someone who uses the S-word lightly, or with sarcastic air-quotes like Cavil.) With 20/20 hindsight, this was the first crack in the unity of the Cylon.
She truly loves Hera, really believes that the fate of both races rests with that child. And she was willing to risk Gods only know what to return Hera and her mother to Galactica, the last place in the universe you’d want to be a Cylon.
Nor do I think whatever the hell is going down between Six and Caprica is just some sick mindgame. IMO, she really feels guilt and shame for what they did to Tigh on New Caprica; can empathise with his guilt and shame, his desperate need to be punished, for what he did to Ellen. And while she doesn’t know he’s one of the Final Five, his confusion clings to him like the stench of week-old booze.
Some people say the real measure of love is how willing you are to truly change, become something else. And what you are willing to risk. For me, Caprica-Six has changed utterly and risked everything.
June 2nd, 2008 at 10:04 am
@ TRON82: Didn’t like Romo in this ep? Well, nether did I. But I’d think twice before judging the rest of the show when one plot of a single episode was not up to par. You seriously didn’t like the Tigh/Adama scenes?
How would Lee be elected prez without a vote? Answer: how do you know he wasn’t voted in? It’s a TV show. It skips the boring stuff and goes straight to the interesting stuff. Lee said this: “Adama will never recognize you as presedent, and we need someone who he will recognize. Now, the quarum has legal authority to appoint an interrim president in a time of chrisis…” That’s apparently what happened; we just didn’t see it.
Are you seriously going to trust what a cylon model said to a human back when every last cylon was out to commit genecide?! The entire point of him saying that was to induce instability within the fleet.
The whole Starbuck thing wasn’t exaplined well enough, admittedly. I assumed that her quest for earth merely meant finding the rebels, who in turn help them learn who the final five are, who in turn lead the fleet to earth. This may have been her “destiny”, and it may have already been fulfilled in this manner (and therefore she is free of insane visions).
June 2nd, 2008 at 10:19 am
TRON82: Sorry, got to respectfully disagree with you there. What the hell did Romo do in Crossroads that wasn’t a head-game inside a hidden agenda wrapped up in sheer delight at his own naughtiness? But even he has limits — I know it was impractical in RW terms, but I would have liked to see a little more of what life is like out in the fleet. Remember, we’re taking about a show whose whole premise that that these people woke up one morning, and by the end of the day they’re the last fifty thousand human beings left alive. Their homes, families, everything they know has been destroyed. They’re running for their lives, and unlike us they don’t know what the frak is going on most of the time. They have no confidence that they’re going to survive the next Cylon attack, and what do they have to look forward to other than the next ration of processed algae, a back-breaking shift on the Dozu Maru and rack time in some pokey compartment in an over-crowded garbage scowl? That’s right: The chamalla-addled terminally-ill President is having visions of a fraking Opera House that is going to lead them to a paradise out of the sacred scrolls.
Somehow, I suspect there are a lot of people who aren’t dealing, and Cottle really sucks at PTSD counselling.
June 2nd, 2008 at 10:27 am
Uh, thanks “Brian” for your response to my rant. No worries, I’m not really all that negative about this series. I just needed to vent about some stuff. IMO, this is truly THE BEST Sci-Fi series, EVER. Hands down. Like everybody else, I’m just anxious about how things are going to wrap up. Rumor has it, the series finale may leave us all in tears. I’m already squirtin’ some over the news that we have to wait til 2009 to find out what happens. In any case, I’m hooked.
Keep up the great comments, everyone! Very informative.
June 2nd, 2008 at 10:38 am
Because Leoben is a fraking liar who knows how to get under people’s skins?
To be quite frank, I don’t think the Qourum is competent to organise the proverbial orgy in a brothel. The simple reality is this: The President has vanished. The military commander of the fleet has made it perfectly clear that he’s not even going to take Zarek’s calls. (BTW, did anyone else notice the parallel with Cain’s treatment of Roslin?) And what’s going to happen: Are the quorum going to get on the wireless to Picon Fleet Command and the Colonial equivalent of the Supreme Court? No, they’ve got to work with what they’ve got.
June 2nd, 2008 at 10:55 am
Conspiracy theories aside;
I think Natalie’s last moments affirmed Cottle’s healer nature. However much he tries to hide it behind his nicotine-stained crusty exterior; he empathises with his patients. It matters not who or what they are; he will try to do everything he can to treat them. Certainly the mark of a true healer is there is such a thing.
June 2nd, 2008 at 10:58 am
I have a question. Did Ronald D Moore say that one of the final 5 is not in the last supper picture of that the final cylon is not in the picture? Because Tory isn’t in the picture, which could be what he was referring to which means that anyone in the last supper picture could be a cylon (if they aren’t already) Could be Roslyn, Baltar, Starbuck, Helo, or Adama. I was writing them all off as cylons because they were in the pic… but maybe I shouldn’t have been so quick to do that. RDM is a sneaky frakker hehe
June 2nd, 2008 at 10:58 am
Hey there,
hmmmm… and just when you thought they had picked up the pace… Sorry, this was a somewhat “dull” episode for me. I liked it being a genuine stepping stone to further episodes, disliked the slow pace. Let’s hope for a better one next time around…
Cheerio,
Ripley
June 2nd, 2008 at 12:05 pm
guess that settles the “good ending or bad ending” debate
*gives self high-five*
June 2nd, 2008 at 1:04 pm
BSGinvictus, thanx for the apology. Honestly, I think people did severely mis-interpret by “very negative” review of this ep. But again, no one has the right to to start insulting any other person, or drawing conclusions on their relationship with Battlestar Galactica, based on their opinion on a single episode (or heck, even a number of episodes). Again, there is nothing that says we have to worship RDM and the Crew for everything they do, just because it’s BSG. And we criticize, even with very negative reviews, we have every right to do so, and if we do, it does not give anyone the right to judge us or draw conclusions on our opinion on the rest of the series. Again, as I said, there are like close to 70 episodes done. Even being negative on say 10 or 15 of them is totally fine, we still love the show.
I can understand about being defensive about BSG. Many judge it without seeing it. But I’ve watched the entire series twice now, and I have foudned two BSG websites, and I post comments on BSGcast every few days. I wouldnt be here or spending hundreds of hours on my own websites if I did not have an incredible passion and love for BSG. It is because of that passion, and because I know what BSG can do, that I get very critical of episodes that …and here is the 3 key words “In my opinion”…are disappointing.
And guess, what, if next episode blows, I will post a similar review. Heck, if every single episode from now until the Finale sux, I will post 12 more reviews just like this one.
However, if you look at my review for the two episodes, Faith and Guess What’s Coming to Dinner, they got “best episode of Season 4″ type of reviews from me. And I’m pretty sure I’m going to be giving a lot more 5 out 5 stars.
But again, I will give a 1 out of 5 stars just as easily as 5 out of 5 stars to an ep. And once again, this is my own opinion. Reading my reviews is optional, notbody forces you to read anybody else’ thoughts. And furthermore, I even warned people.
So if you were so bothered by my 1 out of 5 star review, next time you see me give 1 or 2 stars, just skip my review and comments, so we dont end up with another “that is just STUPID” type comments thrown at me, most especially if what I’m saying is reasonable. We ARE custumers of these shows. If we did not enjoy them, we would nto watch them, if we did not watch them, ratings would go down, DVD sales would go down, partecipation in conventions would go down, website hits would go down, gues what all this translates into? Less money being made by advertisers who depend on huge amounts of website visits, on advertisment in conventions. If they advertisers dont make money, they wont pay the TV networks. If the TV networks dont get money from Advertise companies, they wont be able to buy shows from the Production Companies like NBC Universal. If production companies cant sell their shows, then they wont have money to pay to Ronald D. Moore and the rest of the cast and crew, and in turn, this will mean BSG will have to settle for lower quality crew and cast, which will result in lower a lower quality show, or they will quit the show since nobody likes working for free.
So when somebody says that my argument is “STUPID”, and that Ronald D. Moore doesnt care at all what “Adalla” or any other fan thinks about the show…they couldnt be more wrong. But everyone is entlited to their opinion right? So let them have their opinion. It’s just disappointing when people resort to insults and stop respecting each other.
I’m pretty sure next episode will make up for this one. I mean D’anna is waking up, and she knows the identities of the Final Five…honestly, you’d have to be a pretty poor writer to mess up an episode with such a huge plot development. But you never know…
As I said, I hope I never have to write another bad review, I hate seeing bad BSG episodes. Let us pray the the Gods that they dont mess up from now on
So Say We All
~Adalla
June 2nd, 2008 at 2:12 pm
So Say We All
June 2nd, 2008 at 3:11 pm
Here’s a purely technical question, since I know there’s at least one other person who posts here who watches BSG on Comcast On-Demand; do you know why “Sine Qua Non” hasn’t been posted yet? Comcast have posted all the other episodes quite quickly after they’ve aired, but “Sine Qua Non” still isn’t on there yet. I really want to see it, despite the mixed reviews… otherwise I fear this week’s “Hub” won’t make sense.
June 2nd, 2008 at 3:43 pm
@ Beldarien (and any concerned)
I don’t wait for on demand if I miss a showing – I use Scifi Database. You pay a donation, and the large your donation, the better quality your videos are (I have the best quality, and it is very good). It’s only like twenty bucks or so, if I remember correctly, and you can get all kinds of shows that aren’t even scifi, too (House, Rome, etc). The head guru is a big BSG fan, so the new eps are up before the second airing at ten every friday xD.
June 2nd, 2008 at 3:43 pm
Oh, almost forgot the link:
http://www.scifidatabase.com/v4/
June 2nd, 2008 at 8:09 pm
Belarian
I have comcast on-demand. I’ve no idea why they haven’t put that episode up. It’s weird Sometimes they put the latest up at midnight after the show airs then sometimes they take days. I wasn’t too worried this week because I couldn’t wait and watched the leaked UK episode.
June 3rd, 2008 at 1:25 am
So far I’m enjoying this season. I’m just dissapointed about on major thing. They seemed to have cut down a lot on the space battles and firefights. I know the’re trying to wrap things up and have some drama. But come on, it’s a sci-fi show. There should be space ships flying around blowing each other up. Actualy I miss the ground firefights with humans shooting cylons even more. We almost had something with the cylons fighting each other. But it was over too quick.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:49 am
Adalla
I have got to agree with you. Not liking a show or two does not say you hate the TV show in general. I have seen many shows I didn’t like but as a rule I love Battlestar and have since I was a kid watching TOS. I have more fun tearing apart the shows trying to figure out the little secrets. If you look at it from that point of view last Friday’s show was very good. There is a lot there for us to dig into.
I also want to give Matt and Nat a big thumbs up for what they are doing here. I do look forward to this webcast to see how Matts hand is looking. Hope your feeling better Matt.
Jim (AKA dfiredawg)
June 3rd, 2008 at 5:14 am
I saw this on another site and thought I’d share it. It’s the Canadian teaser for next Friday. It is VERY good.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KDegpnw3fRw
June 3rd, 2008 at 5:18 am
finaly, they readress the issue of cylon on cylon mateing and reproduction. eversince crossroads 2, when the chier, now specialest, tyrol was a cylon i’ve been speculateing what would have happend if he and boomer had stayed togeather. would they have been able to have a baby, now it seems they could. if this is the case why couldnt the cylons reproduse on thier own? does it have something to do with the ability to reserect? do you have to be mortal to reproduse with another cylon? or is someting related to the uniqueness of the final five? in this case, what’s love got to do with it? is it realy a facter any more? and where did the problem come up in the first place any way i mean it is obvious there is nothing wrong with iether the males or femail humanoid models. now that caprica six is pregnent what does this mean for the future of the cylon race? anothe point, WHY DID THEY KILL NATTELY??? she wasn’t the one in the visions and anyway six is meant to protect hera. with all this focus on hera where does nick tyrol fit in with all of this?
June 3rd, 2008 at 7:36 am
BSGinvictus, thanx for the apology. Honestly, I think people did severely mis-interpret by “very negative” review of this ep. But again, no one has the right to to start insulting any other person, or drawing conclusions on their relationship with Battlestar Galactica, based on their opinion on a single episode (or heck, even a number of episodes). Again, there is nothing that says we have to worship RDM and the Crew for everything they do, just because it’s BSG. And we criticize, even with very negative reviews, we have every right to do so, and if we do, it does not give anyone the right to judge us or draw conclusions on our opinion on the rest of the series. Again, as I said, there are like close to 70 episodes done. Even being negative on say 10 or 15 of them is totally fine, we still love the show.
And guess, what, if next episode blows, I will post a similar review. Heck, if every single episode from now until the Finale sux, I will post 12 more reviews just like this one.
Adalla:
Just wanted to thank you for posting this! NO ONE should be VILLIFIED for expressing their comments or opinions. Period.
It’s okay for all of us to have an opinion for goodness sakes. Whether it be positive or negative. Again, no one is tearing down this show. It’s awesome. That’s been established over and over again. I enjoy everyone’s comments on this site. I learn a lot more about the show and appreciate other people’s perspectives. So PLEASE. Let’s keep these discussions unprejudicial and try to be respectful of everyone’s opinions.
So say we all.
June 3rd, 2008 at 7:37 am
It’s just a shame the podcast isn’t ready for tonight’s episode on SKY One. Oh well!
June 3rd, 2008 at 7:42 am
TightFighter
Does that mean Caprica loves Tigh? Holy frak, I just thought of something. Maybe Caprica was projecting Baltar onto to Tigh the same he has been projecting Ellen onto Caprica. I’d love to hear more of what people think is going on with Caprica and Tigh.
My husband and I were talking about this too, but that would mean that Cylons can project with sound as well as sight. Caprica Six always used Tigh’s name when addressing him and never once slipped by calling him Baltar. I’m pretty sure that they can only project sight. If they could project sound also, that would open up a whole can of worms.
I really wish we could have seen Head Baltar and I would pay good frakking money to know what he was saying to Caprica while she was with Saul!
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:00 am
Natalie – died shortly after “JUMP!” command. Let’s say 3 – 4mins.
Can the attack on the Hub complete in that time?
Now I’ve lost track of this – is the Resurrection ship in range – could the Hub be still operational at that point – perhaps, perhaps Natalie is the last successful resurrection before the whole system gets trashed?
…just a thought; it would be nice…
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:04 am
starbuck buck buck buck if cylons could not project sound, then how can tigh hear ellen? and notice that tigh never called six ellen but he was talking to six as if he were talking to her
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:20 am
I really don’t think Caprica-Six is ‘projecting’ Baltar, or that Tigh is doing so as a Cylon rather that a serious fraked up man who murdered his wife and just isn’t dealing. If this is plain old psychosis, doesn’t it make a lot of sense. He’s looking for redemption and if he can ‘love’ this skin-job (as far as he’s capable of loving anyone wrapped inside his doubt, self-loathing and fear) it will all make sense.
Caprica-Six is coming from a whole different place, IMO. She doesn’t need to “project” anyone onto Tigh, because she’s responding to his guilt and shame; he stinks of a hunger to be punished for his crimes. As I said upthread, Caprica-Six is on a search for redemption of her own, and she’s living out the concept that God really is Love. Not just fraking (as we’ve seen with Kara sex and love can exist without being in the same galaxy), but seeing through the lies and self-deceptions most of us need just to get through the day. Anyone else around here read Philip K. Dick — in book after book, he posits that “humanity” isn’t a matter of biology or DNA but empathy — the ability to recognise or understand the emotions of others. There’s always going to be a part of her that truly loves Baltar, but she saw him without illusions all the way back on New Caprica. Her love — her empathy, her conviction that she would die the true and final death for the future beyond the Opera House that’s just out of reach, her utter belief that despite all her sins and those of her people, is is capable of loving and being loved — is far too big for any one man. Even Gaius Baltar or Saul Tigh.
That’s what I found so heart-breaking about the death of Natalie. She stood before the Quorum, saw their fear and mistrust, and had a deep empathetic response: The Rebels were stuck in the same old vicious cycle of hate breeding hate, fear and mistrust creating nothing but itself. And in running a secret agenda against the fleet, they were just turning that wheel of b.s. one more turn. EMPATHY.
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:31 am
Wow, So not a great episode, but an episode that shakes up the status quo as Ronald Moore’s usual business. First off, I strongly dislike the whole Adama loses his objectivity and gives up the fleet command so he can run off after Rosalynn His great love. As Captain Gloval said in the Robotech cartoon “You can’t throw your whole career away for some stupid romance!” Next, Lee is now the president of the colonies while Tom Zerek again gets the shaft. Baltars lawyer comes back and has cat issues that get solved with a dog at some point stopping long enough to point a gun a Lee for no specific reason. They killed off nat who was a great cylon and was a six who was really different from the other sixes, I’ll miss her. Athena gets to have her baby in the brig with her, Hooray! Just cause you see the six have her in a vision does not mean its going to happen in reality. And finally, We have the “cylon-hating” cylon, impregnating another cylon and getting the command of the whole frakking fleet, so he can go destroy the cylons he hates so much with full military authority. Boy what a frakked up show, anyway, please let next week be better. I am so happy to have Lucy back. and maybe finally Boomer can go be with Tyrol because they always belonged together anyway, their relationship ended because She was a Cylon and of course He was one too!
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:43 am
Mr. Lovejoy – Nice Robotch/Macross reference. Last time I watched Macross I saw a lot of similarities with BSG and it almost seamed like a progression from the original BSG to Macross to the new BSG. Similar plots, in an aircraft carrier, on the run from a chasing enemy, homeworld gets destroyed. I wonder how much each influence the other. I heard there is a live action Robotech movie being developed – Just make the vipers and galactica transform, make the cylons 40 feet tall, change the Colonies to earth, add a girl that only sings the same three song over and over and you would basically have what a live action Macross would be. It’s a great sci-fi storyline and seeing how great BSG turned out, it has possibilities. But when is comes to remakes, BSG is the exception and not the rule. (Yes, I’m pointing at you Bionic Woman)
My prediction is that in the final episode, the Galactica will transform into an SDF-1 type ship, Colonial One will transform into a giant vacuum cleaner and then they’ll all jump to the sharkshead nebula and suck all the air out of plane Druidia.
June 3rd, 2008 at 1:27 pm
Forgive me if this has been discussed before, but I watched Rapture again (pumping myself up for D’Anna’s reappearance in The Hub) and I noticed something curious about her time with the Fantastic Four plus One. If you watch carefully she sees the first three before stopping on the fourth to apologize. She never sees the identity of the final Cylon. I find this to be a bit ironic because the Cylon Civil War started partly because of D’Anna’s (incomplete) knowledge of the Final Five. From a dramatic standpoint, D’Anna’s inability to identify the Five makes sense. If the Five are identified by mid-season, then what? Where does the show go from there?
This leaves us with two key questions – Who did D’Anna apologize to? Who is the final Cylon? To the first question I’m going to say that she’s apologizing to Tigh, but not for the loss of his eye. I think she’s apologizing because she made him look like a jackass back in Final Cut. In this context she wronged him personally and her reaction to seeing the Fourth makes perfect sense.
On the final Cylon question I won’t go into too much detail because this Cylon’s identity is anybody’s guess at this point (unless you’re Ron Moore), but I have this to say… Cylon society appears to revolve around the concept of the One True God, who’s commandments include the need to procreate and procreation requires an equal number of males and females. If this is true, then the final Cylon should exhibit feminine qualities to even out the gender disparity. That being said, I’m going to go out on a limb to say that Galactica herself is the final Cylon and that Hera is the ship’s human avatar, which is what makes Hera so special. Seriously, the ship survived two wars, nuclear strikes, a fall from orbit, Cylon boarding parties, she resisted a Cylon logic bomb for weeks, and the Music appeared to originate from within the ship. We also have Athena chasing Hera through the projected halls of the Opera House, which has a strong connection to the Final Five.
Just some food for thought.
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Great cast as always Matt and Nat
You have a way of bringing a smile to your viewers and making us all laugh. I think we needed it after this particular episode’s comments
Though I must say, I expected a bit more criticism, but then, I’m biased from my own, now infamous, “BSG hating” review LOL
After seeing the things you pointed out, and true there were some great things in the episode, which I stated in my review, but IMO they got overshadowed by the Romo-Lee arc, which I’m surprised you guys didnt get into…was this done intentionally?
Anyways, for me anyways, it’s time to move on from Sine Qua Non, and I’m looking forward SO much to the next two episodes. The Hub, because I hope it makes up for this last ep which I didnt like, and Revelations…mostly because it is the mid-season cliff hanger, and the very name iteself implies we will be Revealed a great many things, and hopefully enough that we can chew on for 8 months until the second half of S4 airs again.
Oh, and also because Bear McCreary sounded so excited about the score he did for Revelations, and the revolutionary way the music is as part of the show and writing, as everything else.
Indeed I’m as excited to HEAR Revelations, as I’m to see the episode
~Adalla
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:42 pm
I too loved the Cast. Matt and Nat rock.
It’s funny that you guys mentioned the fact that Geata could possibly be Tigh’s XO. It just reminded me of something Baltar said back in season one. I’ll have to go back and watch it. I think he was drunk. Anyways. he asked someone if it was a pirate ship they were running. Your pirate comments reminded me of this.
Now if Geata does become XO, It could really be a pirate ship. Then again, maybe Starbuck will be XO. wouldn’t that be interesting? I hope she’s not so normal anymore. you guys were right. She was a little out of character there. I loved Matt’s comment about her deleted scene dancing naked with bacon on her face or something like that.
Great job guys, keep up the good work.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Matt and Nat great one as usual. I realy can’t wait till Friday night. I’ll be on my vacation so I have no excuse either. I’ll get to watch it, DVR it, copy it to DVD and watch it a few more times. OH and the most important part is to tear it apart to try to find more clues and post to you what I may find out. LOL
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Thanks for getting this one up so quickly guys!
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:34 pm
Thanks for the help, Brian and TightFighter! Since comcast *still* haven’t posted the ep on on-demand, and scifi doesn’t seem to be re-running it anytime in the near future, I will head to scifidatabase as Brian suggests!
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:08 pm
I swear that the Six and Tigh love each other. She is pregnant and he is the baby daddy! Although it is sick and twisted Cylon love, this proves one thing. The Cylons are capable of loving each other and having children amongst themselves. Which up until “Sine” is not revealed. Although Cylons loved each other(Tyrol and Boomer) and Cylons can have kids (Tyrol, Athena) it wasn’t until Tigh and Captive Six were introduced that two Cylons appeared to Love and actually procreated with each other! Which is significant because the entire show is based on the premise that the Cylons need humans for reproduction, outside of ressurection. This is potentially ground breaking for both Cylons and Humanity!
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:19 pm
kinda makes The Farm episode useless doesn’t it? if cylons can procreate why did they need human females?
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:28 pm
Did anyone consider that the baby isn’t Tigh’s? Baltar was having threesomes with D’Anna and Caprica until the algae planet, how long has it been since then?
June 3rd, 2008 at 5:17 pm
Ryan L.- I highly recommend you scroll up and look at my posts. I’ve talked about it and even brought up a retcon analysis that suggests that it may be Baltar’s.
Pavlov’s God- Congrats on making FotW this week.
Adam- Looks like Matt and Nat liked the image like you predicted they would.
June 3rd, 2008 at 5:29 pm
Exactly, Adalla. We figued it wasn’t worth mentioning the yank/brit squabble in the episode, since the conversations on the board go so much deeper, any comment from us in the ‘cast would lose relevance pretty fast. I must say, it came as no surprise to me that the quality of people we have in this forum dealt with Liam’s comment so fairly, in good humour (note my proper British spelling there, Liam) and with the utmost diplomacy. You guys really are some of the best.
BSGinvictus: You’re totally right; there was a pirate ship comment in season one! What a prediction
Hoop: I’m pretty sure the Final Five Cylons are just humans with some extra programming, and we’ve learned that the other Seven Cylons can have children with humans they love… so I think it proves the continuing humanity of Tigh, Tyrol, Tory and Anders, and the love between Six and Tigh… who still thinks Six is Ellen on some level.
~Matt
June 3rd, 2008 at 5:58 pm
Oh I was referring to the Romo-Lee arc Matt. You guys barely mentioned it, and it was made people such as myself dislike this ep so much. I thought we’d hear more about that story arc.
Eitherway, great cast keep it up
June 3rd, 2008 at 6:08 pm
Ah, yes, that too… Well, Nat pretty much summed it up for me when she said it was kind of uninteresting. It felt to me like an unnatural extension of their relationship from Crossroads. I would have preferred to see the Quorum actually decide something for once, and pick Lee as their President. No need at all for Romo. And better yet, have Zarek pull the gun on Lee to galvanize his resolve.
~Matt
June 3rd, 2008 at 6:39 pm
I would have preferred that scenario, Matt. Either way, I like the fact that Lee didn’t even consider for one second that he was a good candidate until Romo practically slapped him in the face with it. That kind of naievety will surely play hell with the tough situations he’ll have to face later on.
I described a possible explaination for Starbuck’s normalness somewhere above. If we don’t see anything to the contrary, that’s what I’m going with.
Good cast, as always.
June 3rd, 2008 at 6:40 pm
WOW. Fan of the week on my first post. Thanks Matt and Nat. You guys do an incredible job and everyone that posts here has some great ideas and observations. Passions were a little high on this episode but it stayed civil for the most part.
Now I’ll cross my fingers for the Headphones.
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:32 pm
Gah there is too much to respond to. Ok, I’ll make a post about this week’s BSGcast and then a response comment later.
Congrats Pavlov. I really liked that post too. That comment and a theory Jim posted over at BSGPilots about Beings of Light got me to go back and watch War of the Gods. I’m now almost convinced that Head Six is the New series incarnation of Count Iblis. I’ll have to expand on that sometime here.
Mat+Nat
Another fine Cast. Mat, I agree that everything else, minus the Lee-Romo arc, was awesome. It just bugs me that those elements were cramped to the side in favor of the awkward Presidential story. Imagine how great the story would’ve been if they cut back on the A plot and let the rest breath a little bit. I guess there’s hope for an extended episode that does just that. I did like your guys take on Romo pulling out the gun being an act to get Lee to see the obvious choice. That’s how I want to think about the whole situation. That way Romo remains one of my fav. characters. I agree with the Quorum becoming “yes men”, but more importantly it’s Zarek who got shorted in this episode. Also, head Kitty aside, why didn’t you mention the return of Jake!!!!! :p
Finally it’s funny that you mentioned peg legged Gaeta, hilarious screen for the Cast this week BTW. I’ve been posting over at galacticawatercooler.com and there is a really funny thread about making BSG lyrics for songs. Me and and another poster came up with lyrics for “Piano Man”. I thought everyone would get a kick out of it here. I wrote everything up to and including the chorus and a poster by the name of Topgun wrote the rest. Oh yeah, The song makes the assumption that Anders is Cylon number nine.
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:48 pm
I get where you and Nat were coming from, but I don’t know if I’d have brought the Quorum suddenly having a side order of assertiveness training with their algaeburgers either — if that’s going to be realistic in any way, then I think you’d have to spend some time establishing the individual Qorum members a la Sarah Porter, the Geminese delegate in season two. Hell, as I sad up-thread I’d really have liked to see more of what life is like outside the confines of Galactica/Colonial One. Or, at least, have those episodes being a damn sight better than ‘Black Market’ or ‘Sacrifices’. (I do get that time, money and space is always at a premium here, and you really have to justify every new set, or hiring new second-stringers but a boy can dream.)
And please feel free to demand a drug test, but I actually liked Head-Fluffy. You think sane Starbuck is freaky, I’d actually like to see more civilians freaking out after the bottomless cup of bullshit, craziness, death and despair they’ve been drinking for the three years since the attempted genocide of the human race. Romo abandoned his fraking family to die, and all he had left was that bleeding stupid cat. And then he defends ex-President Messiah Doctor Douchebag (almost being murdered twice in the process), and the cat gets whacked. Don’t know about y’all, but I wouldn’t be the picture of mental health either.
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:58 pm
And sorry for the third thought, but I’ve never really seen much evidence that Tom Zarek ever rolled like that — and is it just me projecting, or did New Caprica really change Zarek? The really creepy thing about his scene with Laura in ‘Collaborators’ was that he meant it — the death squad, the summary executions, near murder of an innocent man were all his gift to her. So she could take power with ‘clean hands’. In his own twisted — and utterly logical — way, everything he does is in the best interests of humanity.
June 4th, 2008 at 12:04 am
sorry if this has been asked already but is The Hub airing in the UK again before the US/Canada?
June 4th, 2008 at 12:51 am
[...] the latest BSGCAST for Sine Qua Non is up which I recommend checking [...]
June 4th, 2008 at 1:05 am
Unfortunately Sky One in their “wisdom” decided to show both parts of the Lost season ending instead of Battlestar Galactica this week, checking the listings they initially were going to show both but changed their minds. Sadly they are NOT going to show the last two parts of BSG next week just the Hub. The UK did get the entire first season first though (IIRC it had finished before Sci-fi showed it).
I loved the pirate part of the cast this week are you planning to do a “Talk like a Pirate BSGCAST” on September 19th? Its lucky Romo got Jake and not a Parrot
I was also amused that quite a few points that I had made were mentioned especially the when has 2 people been a commitee (see my post at top 4th one in thread) and Lee holding a gun to Tighs head. The commentary on Caprica 6’s pregnancy seemed to be missing though
June 4th, 2008 at 4:18 am
I’m wondering what they’re trying to set us up for by swapping both civilian and military command just before the final five are revealed to everyone. I still like the idea that Lee is the final cylon (way back in season 1 Leoban told Roslin that “Adama is a cylon”) – then we have both civilian and military power controlled by cylons. The baseship comes back, tries to tell everyone, then what happens … Do the fleet think that D’Anna is lying – it could certainly be spun that way by cylons trying to cover their own asses?
If that is the case then maybe some of Romo’s ranting might be reconsidered as dropping hints to the effect that Lee is a cylon. Maybe not – I haven’t spotted anything particular in there.
This episode did seem rather rushed, I have to say. Adama resigning as admiral could have been a show of its own. And getting Lee into the presidency could have been done better. Leave out Romo, and have one or two of the quorum actually become characters, as the head judge did during the trial of Baltar. Have some more time with showdowns with Zarek. Involve Tory in the discussions. Could have been plenty of potential there (though it still would have been squashed to fit it into this episode …) Ultimately, as Adalla says
> And if someone had said, ok lets kill Natalie, have Adama get obssesed about Roslin, have Lee become president, and Tigh take
> command after Adama hands over his Admiral pins, I’d have said heck yeah, great stuff! But it’s the “HOW” of getting to those plot
> points that was very badly done.
June 4th, 2008 at 4:24 am
Matt and Nat as with everyone else I did like the peg leg thing. That was funny. Now as for Romo I still think this episode is giving us another potential for the final Cylon. He is showing signs of being a real nut job with all that happened with his wife and feeling the guilt of her death to taking her cat and basically that was a part of his wife to him and he let it get killed just like his wife. Now he is feeling used by Lee with the whole presidential thing. He is really a shrinks dream come true. I think this shows the darkness he is in as a person and he is now clawing his was just to keep his head above water or towards the light.
Six being Ellen? Yes I think that more now than ever. They just look too similar. I also really think tigh is in love with her as Ellen.
One last thing, Thank you very much Matt and Nat for your comments on how we handled the whole international relations issue. (Like how I put that?) I am very glad there was a lot of tact used there rather than a lot of childish name-calling. I am very proud of everyone here myself.
Well here is to Friday night and I’m starting my vacation that day so I don’t need to worry about getting called out to a fire or medical call for the last 2 shows. YEAAAAAA!!!!!
OH and one last thing to say. Beings of light! I’ll put up a post on that later. I have already shared it with Matt.
June 4th, 2008 at 4:28 am
Listen I know two guys isn’t a committee, but either is 12 (13 counting the VP) a Republic. Plus they got someone who wasn’t a Quorum member to participate in the committee which the American Congress never does preferring their own views and opinions over their own peoples. Plus committees are always small, consisting of a few people who will decide the future of millions. So two people deciding the future of thousands is better than real life.
Also I actually agree with Romo, that Apollo knew and possibly planned that he would be president. I do think that Husker’s choice to leave was more influenced by his son becoming President, as it would cause some serious unrest if the Adama Family was in complete control of the government. The Adamas are too much like a “Good” Borgia Family, good thing Athena is not apart of the family in this series, neh.
June 4th, 2008 at 4:30 am
Excellent song Tighfighter. It really made me laugh a few times.
I agree with Charles. Matt and Nat should do a “Talk like a Pirate BSGCAST” on September 19th.
Everyone can use a little more pirate in their life.
June 4th, 2008 at 5:55 am
If RDM is following a religous framework for the show. The final Cylon is supposed to be in the place of Peter who was the head of the 12. Now if this is the case, suppose maybe this cylon became aware that he/her was a cylon and awakened the other 4 on the ship? This would explain why the 5th is still in hiding but how the other 4 became simutanously aware?
Another shot in the dark. If the final 5 know of earth and it’s location. Why were they sent there or did they originate from earth first and then traveled backwards to the other 12 colonies to free them from captivity? Once the war started they went into hiding in case their mission to free the other cylons failed? This would explain why they (other cylon models) were forbidden to discuss and that they were modled after people on earth and not the twelve colonies?
Last one, if Lee Adama is in the position of traitor/betrayer. Who, how and when will he betray his fellow human?
June 4th, 2008 at 5:58 am
Sorry, meant to say that the 7 were modled after persons from the 13th colony and not persons from the 12 colonies. Also that the final 5 are in hiding in case their mission failed to free the other cylons. Something along the line, all this has happened befor and it will happen again. The cylons on earth freed themselves. Traveled to the 12 colonies to free those cylons? Just a shot in the dark.
June 4th, 2008 at 7:25 am
HI! So I’m moving in about a week, so we have no cable, but we do have internet, and I can’t find this episode anywhere and its driving me insane! Scifi hasn’t posted it yet, but I’m wondering if anyone knows where I can watch it?
June 4th, 2008 at 8:16 am
sidereel.com is your friend
June 4th, 2008 at 9:18 am
thank you very much
June 4th, 2008 at 9:37 am
I thought it was interesting that Adama referred to Six as a “woman” instead of a “thing”, or “skin job”. I believe he said “What are you going to do with that woman?” when speaking to Tigh. I think this shows that the humans who make the decisions are changing their attitudes towards the Cylons (at least towards some of them).
June 4th, 2008 at 9:44 am
TighFighter I’m sitting here in my truck while the wife is shopping and catching up on the new posts, man your peg leg man song is funny. Almost makes me forget how hot it is. LOL
Thanks for the distraction.
June 4th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Very good point nano. Good catch!
June 4th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
He did that with Athena too. Am I the only one who STILL gets a lump in my throat when Adama apologises to Athena for the rape — and I think it’s the point where he stops calling her “that thing”. It’s so easy to take Eddie Olmos for granted. That scene was brilliant because he under-plays but is so emotionally open — she’s a Cylon, but what happened to her just fraks with his ideals in so many ways. Beautiful.
June 4th, 2008 at 8:30 pm
Sorry I would have posted something over the weekend, but the Cure Came to town and that took priority over everything in the universe…
One Eyed Tigh and peg-leg Gaeta….
Rosalin as the final cylon…how funny…but I doubt it even though she would be the stoner cylon…sorry gang I can’t let it go.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:21 am
Hi everyone!
Sorry it’s taken so long to comment on this one but I have this to say: While many of you HATED this episode, I absolutely loved it! I loved seeing Lampkin back in action and I felt like we really got down to the heart of his psychosis in this episode. For those of you who are going “OMG! He’s a psycho! Where did this come from???” One look in his eyes during the Crossroads two parter would have told you that the demons were clawing their way out of his soul and it was only a matter of time until they did. I guess the cat getting killed was the straw that broke the camel’s back.
As for Lee becoming President: Who didn’t see THAT coming??? They have been grooming Lee to become the big leader since the beginning of the show. It’s about time they finally got around to doing it.
As for the fight between Tigh and Adama: AWESOME!!! Best friends who are just stressed to the nines about life finally let go! Both of these guys have needed to do this for a long time. It was a clearing of the air and I am glad it finally happened. The line about how many times Adama has had to fix that ship was great! It showed that even though they had been beating the shit out of each other moments before there were no hard feelings. They handled it like real men.
I have to give a nod to my friend Richard Hatch as well. Up until this point he has played Tom Zarek as a subtle conniving bastard who played his emotional cards to his chest. It was nice to see him blow up about Adama not recognizing him as president and I think that Zarek had every right to be pissed. He has played by the rules and done what was right and Adama is STILL too stubborn to recognize him for the man he has become. If anything, Adama proved Zarek RIGHT by showing him that he didn’t give a rats ass about the law.
Ok, now for some shameless self promotion!!!!
The newest Episode of Battlestar Prometheus is up on the BSP Main site!
I had to edit this one myself because poor Theresa is up to her gills in work and family stuff right now so don’t hold it against her if it isn’t up to the usual standard of excellence that she brings out in me. Any screw ups are completely MY fault! LOL
Anyhoo, hope everyone is enjoying the story so far! I plan on having a new episode out very soon so stay tuned!
http://battlestar. prometheus. googlepages. com
June 5th, 2008 at 4:40 am
I have the day off so I have time to make that response comment I promised.
\\Fires up BSG sound track and digs
Kage Musha
June 5th, 2008 at 4:43 am
LOL It seems I messed some of those block quotes up. Oh well, at least you can still read the whole thing.
June 5th, 2008 at 5:02 am
I know, I know I am very late to the posting. Sorry, I have been either living at work, which is most of my time, or the hubbie and I have been at the movies. But anywho, nto what I thought was the weakest of the Season 4 so far. This episode while yes, it moved some of the characters’ plots forward did so I thought in kind of a poor way.
Adama vs Tigh I thought was a great scene. The fight was brilliant, but someone tell me why would Adama turn the fleet over to a man he knows is now sleeping with the enemy??? And it isn’t like having Helo as his second. Athena is someone who he trusted, someone who helped the fleet. What has Caprica Six been doing for them? Other then sleeping with Tigh?? And here’s a question, how the heck if Tigh is a Cylon is Caprica pregnant?????? Someone explain that to me?? I thought cylons needed humans to have children. Hmmm huh???
Adama and Athena I thought was done very well. I love the line of do you hate your people that much?? And when Athena speaks of her visions, it’s interesting to me that he will put some faith in Roslin’s visions, but not in Athena’s. And now she’s back in the brig. It brought to mind that line of Helo’s from season three of “It seems like they are always coming for one of us” right after he killed the infected cyclons in a _A Measure of Salvation_. Once again an Agathon was insightful.
Adama leaving he fleet is bothered me. It felt forced, rushed, artifical in some ways. Yes we know there’s a relationship there that goes far deeper then their ranks and roles in the fleet. But to leave when the Galacatica is short handed, short bird, just shorter then normal on everything, when the President is missing just seems so wrong to me. Hell, my mom was complaining about it, how he loves Roslin more then his people, his job, and his son. It bugged her, and honestly bugged me too.
Lee for president just irked me. I’m sorry, I love the character, and I love the fact that he is doing something outside of the military. Making him relevant, but you have an elected vp named Zarek. And now the entire reasoning to make Lee preisdent, of how Adama would never with with Zarek is gone out an airlock because Adama is now floating in a rapture reading a book! Why bother going through this entire subplot just to make it pointless?? I would have rather have seen the tension, the fights of Adama, o now Tigh and Zarek with Lee as VP then this. This means all that the fight Lee had about how “we have to have elections, bla blah blah” way back then is pointless. Why have bothered at all if you could just this? Zarek was the only one there that was elected, hell Lee wasn’t even elected to the Quorum, he was appointed. The only thing about this that was a little bit worthwhile to me was that it brought back the idea of the Ruling family that we saw at the end of last season.
Natalie RIP unless there was a resurrection ship near by. Wouldn’t that be ironic that the leader of the Cylons that want to end downloading gets downloaded?? And was she reaching out to Sam to be bought across?? Has she reached Earth now? And oh, here is something that I was thinking about when talking with a friend about BSG. Isn’t it funny that on BSG we have seen the near death experieinces for both races? And for the humans, they are on a boat, crossing over to a field like park, like in the ancient Greeks beliefs, of crossing the river Styx and being ferried over to the Elysian fields seeing their loved ones again. And for the Cyclons, they see the mythic Final Five, and perhaps the face of their god. There is a clear tie in t both of their belief structures, so if a Final Five has a near death experience, what to they see? What they are, or what they believe? Or does it end up, not mattering? Too bad we didn’t get to see Nat’s death completely through her eyes. I think there is more then that what we were shown, some clue.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:22 am
This isn’t meant to be enitrely snarky, but what the hell does Saul Tigh have to do to exhaust the Old Man’s patience? All the way back in the mini-series, our first sight of Tigh is him reporting for duty drunk — which I’m fairly sure is a disciplinary offence in the Colonial Fleet. And don’t tell me Adama’s so clueless he thinks that coffee cup Tigh carried around was one of Dorral’s special cappuchinos.
For better and for worse, Tigh is Adama’s best friend, and even before the attack I suspect he got a lot of slack he wouldn’t have gotten from anyone else. (Cain sure treated him with undisguised contempt.)
Caprica-Six did help Athena and Hera to escape from the Cylon — and as far as Adama knows, she could have betrayed Athena and ripped everything she knew about the Galactica and fleet defences out of her mind. Cap-Six also gave up intel about the Daru Mozu’s distinctive radiation signature the Cylons were using to track the fleet.
Since she was taken into custody, the counter-question is what exactly has Caprica-Six done against them?
Well, who say it’s pointless? Remember in ‘Bastille Day’ now-Admiral Tigh wouldn’t even shake the hand of fraking terrorism scum like Tom Zarek. He was an accessory to a military coup at the end of that season, and colluded in flat out electoral fraud at the end of season two because he hated Gaius Baltar even more. I think Admiral Tigh and President Adama is going to be bad enough; Admiral Tigh and President Zarek would have made the Gideon Massacre look like nothing. Though I’m pretty sure neither man would be wise to turn their backs on Tom Zarek…
June 5th, 2008 at 10:20 am
Matt & Nat,
If you notice at the end when Tigh picks up the phone and says “this is galactia actual” he is wearing his colonel insignia not the admiral one. I don’t know what he did with them but he is definitely not wearing them.
June 5th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
I’m tired of the theory that the Cylon god is Satan.
An oracle once told Roslin that one of the gods had become “jealous” of the others, and declared himself to be the “one true god”. This is obviously the Cylon god, since Six has always drilled it into Baltar’s head that there is “one true god”, and all the other gods are false.
Exodus 20:5 says
“You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God”.
Obviously, the Cylon god is Yahweh, the Judeo-Christian god of the Old Testament.
Yahweh was a vengeful god who didn’t hesitate to wipe out anyone who opposed him. The attack on the 12 Colonies was a lot like Yahweh’s destruction of Sodom and Gomorra, or his destruction of Samaria.
Hosea 13:16
“The people of Samaria must bear the consequences of their guilt because they rebelled against their God. They will be killed by an invading army, their little ones dashed to death against the ground, their pregnant women ripped open by swords.”
And don’t forget all the parallels between Gaius and Jesus.
The colonials who oppress Baltar worship the pantheon. The Romans who oppressed Christ worshipped the pantheon.
We’ve seen Baltar in a crucifix position several times. He’s also grown his hair and beard in the style that Jesus did.
A member of the Quorum compared Baltar’s religion to “followers of Mithras”. The “followers of Mithras” were a group in Jesus’ time that had a lot in common with what Jesus taught.
The writers are smart, they do these things for a reason. Don’t forget the parallels between the occupation of New Caprica and the occupation of Iraq. Yahweh is the Cylon god. Baltar is a pantheistic messiah.
June 5th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
Great episode. Hilarious bsgcast. Peg-legged Gaeta and One-Eyed Tigh. Nice!! I really liked the episode. Every conversation Adama had was awesome; nice good old Adama episode. You all talk about the committee and how could it be made up of only two people and 50% of it becomes president. Well, it looks like it wasn’t an “Official” committee. Lee was doing it on his own. Zarek even said , “well, good luck with that”. Probably used the same arguments on the rest of the Qorum that he used on Zarek earlier.
Like you all, I loved the Tigh/Adama fight. I actually couldn’t stop laughing when Adama fell on the model ship. Read somewhere that the model ship he destroyed back when Starbuck died was not a prop, but a rental museum piece worth thousands. Hopefully they used a prop this time. lol
So I was checking up on some old posts on and came across this : http://gizmodo.com/393426/cylon-baseships-run-windows-xp.
Looks like the cylons and I have the same problem; windows keeps crashing on us. You know, this could be a clue to the original start of the cylon war. The Colonials wanted to convert the cylons to run Mac OS. And as we all know, the cylons are not and do not want to be user friendly. Hopefully they have the latest windows updates or else some of their “downloads” will end up corrupted.
June 5th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
Dang. Sorry for the double post. I was having trouble submitted the other day and thought it wasn’t added.
June 5th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
Matt & Nat…thank you for putting up my pic! LOL! That was all for you Nat!
After we all discussed it I just had to put my mental image on screen somehow…hope everyone got a kick out of it.
June 5th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
I definitely think that D’Anna’s reveal of one of the final five is suspicious. If she outs Anders, the repercussions would be a bit much, I think, this early in the season. She could be addressing Roslin, but even if she is, I don’t consider D’Anna to be a very predictable character. It’s possible she could be trying to deceive everyone (within that room, at least) for some ulterior motive, or just lying for some reason or another….what does anyone else think?
June 5th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
This is very off topic. I know everyone is currently talking about the final 5, but I was watching season one episode 8 today “Flesh and bone.” There is a point where Leoben is talking about streams.
“I see the universe. I see the patterns. I see the foreshadowing that precedes every moment of every day………. What is the most basic article of faith? This is not all that we are. The difference between you and me is, I know what that means and you don’t. I know that I’m more than this body more than this consciousness. A part of me swims in the stream but in truth I’m standing on the shore. The current never takes me down stream…. I see the truths that float past you in the stream. ”
At the time everyone thinks that he is speaking metaphorically because we haven’t been introduced to the hybrid in season 1. However as the seasons go on we learn that Leoben has an intimate understanding of the language the hybrid speaks. She consciously experiences everything at once. The verbalizations that come out of her mouth are poetic translations of what she’s experiencing. Like in a dream. I think that when Leoben puts his hand into the data STREAM! He’s learned how to see what the hybrid see’s and has learned how to interpret it. He channels her so to speak, to the point where he is becoming more consciously aware of his own subconscious experiences if that makes sense. I don’t’ want to get too philosophical here. Basically what I’m saying is I think the stream he’s speaking of may actually be the data stream on the base stars. He stands on the shore IE stands by the consoles. He puts his hand in the stream. When he does this he can see what the hybrid sees, but he does not get taken into the experiences like the hybrid. He watches them from a detached point of view instead of experiencing them directly like the hybrid does. He can also see the truths about others in the stream. If the hybrid is experiencing something that has to do with Starbuck he can also see what will happen for her and why like the hybrid does. Or He has learned how to do that himself and see’s the truth about Starbuck and how he is connected to it. However, given that he is a love challenged cylon at least in season 1, he doesn’t fully understand everything he’s seeing or know how to express it properly.
Am I making any sense at all?
June 5th, 2008 at 9:38 pm
I know I’m late…but just a thought….
remember where lee, rather off the cuff, says “Well, would you rather talk about what you been doing in this room?”
was it just romo’s grief over the cat or….
Is he the final Cylon?
June 5th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
Okay, this is none episode related, but I have to ask. About getting FOTW a few weeks back and the shirt I won, do I e-mail Matt and Nat about it, am I suppose to wait for them to e-mail me about it (seeing that an e-mail address is required to submit a post) or are they going to wait until after the drawing to send out the shirt? I mean, I don’t know what to do and there isn’t much of anything about instructions as to what to do if you win a shirt. I’ve been wondering about it and am so confused right now.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:56 pm
I reckon it’d be a writer’s cop out to have the final cylon be anyone not Starbuck, Adama, Roslyn or Apollo. Baltar, we’ve been through that, and I’d say he’d be too obvious, but I thought Chief was too obvious but then realized it was only too obvious if you had been obsessing like I had. Starbuck’s in weird way, like it’s be a cop out for her to be a cylon and a cop out for her to be a human. My bet’s like there’s 12 colonies and a 13th special colony, earth. maybe there’s a 13th cylon that the other 12 know nothing about, and that’s Starbuck.
Going over razor hybrid speak (the only access i can get to season 4 is wiki plot summaries, youtube and you guys, my computer ain’t in good shape) I took Starbuck’ll lead the human race to it’s end-the end of the journey to earth. Speaking of razor, the girl in the background on the icy moon looks exactly like an adult Starbuck. I never mentioned before because no one seemed to know what it was worth. I Thought if it was her then it’s all be over the web.
Something the rebel basestar hybrid says: ” the five that come from the home of the 13th”. This has led me to the conclusion that we are all cylons. Us on earth. Something happened when the people left Kobol, and the 13th tribe was made up of cylons. The final five are earth-stlye cylons.
There’s a weird thing I noticed in one season 3 episode (i don’t know any names) when Gaeta stabs Baltar with a pen, preceded by Baltar saying; “if only they knew your secret”. My theory: Baltar tested Gaeta of his cylonivity (my spell check says that’s a real word!) in the first series, and Baltar told Gaeta he was a cylon for whatever reason, but he’s not. No reason to get exited, but it’s a possible forthcoming plot and at least that’s gonna cheer up Gaeta after his leg troubles.
The final four are all protecting someone who the cylons are a bit interested in. Anders is protecting Starbuck, Tigh Adama, Tori Roslin and Chief Nicki. this leads to the possibility that Helo is a cylon to protect Hera, why put some random eight in charge of the shape of things to come? But I don’t think Helo’s a cylon, many among us do, because he’s not major enough to the show, (though the final 4 can reproduce with the significant 7, I love the way the cylons are either “final” or “significant”) in fact I’m worried for Helo, he’s the only killable real character on the basestar.
The only unprotected part of the big four humans is appolo, thus leading me to the conclusion that the final cylon is either Apollo or protecting Apollo. the only one I think who is protecting Apollo is Lampkin, though he’s minor and we have no emotional investment in him, this raises the possibility that he’s known what he was all along.
One little way of eliminating people from being the cylon is by looking at the others. they are the twelve archetypes of humanity, the final one should fill in the gap. Though no matter who the last cylon is, still more than half of the cylons are male, a female cylon would even it up a bit but still it wouldn’t. I reckon Lampkin’s a cylon and he knows. There’s too much confusion is this show.
I emailed this to you, and think Matt deserves a round of applususe the promtness of his reply. Seriously, with sifting through thousands of emails and posts and time zone differences, I was not expecting a response for weeks, and then I thought it’s be some robot statement reply. Well Done!
June 5th, 2008 at 11:25 pm
Great theory Kirsty. I was actually just watching that episode recently. I never thought about it that way. It does make sense to me.
June 6th, 2008 at 12:33 am
Correction, the Committee was 2 People and (some sort of) a Cat.
June 6th, 2008 at 5:20 am
Kirsty, I like the theory. Roslin’s dream could’ve been purely her imagination. But that doesn’t explain where Baltar got the stream image.
I’m hoping the hybrid was talking to Baltar, and we’re just seeing the look of shock on Roslin’s face.
June 6th, 2008 at 5:29 am
Ok, it’s been a few weeks since I last posted, mainly b/c I’ve been busy and the thought of wading thru a couple hundred posts to find out who has already said what I’m thinking has been off-putting. Having only skimmed this thread, I’ll take a stab at posting a point or two that may or may not be original.
Anyway, I’m not convinced that Anders is on the Basestar, nor am I convinced that either Roslin or Baltar is the final Final 5. I’m thinking that we’ll find out tonight that Helo is the final cylon. It’s been noted that he could be because apparently the Final 5 can breed with the Sig-7 (unless the Caprica pregnancy is just a red herring). What I didn’t see noted above (maybe it was and I missed it) is that this would answer the “Why Hera and not Nicky” question. Hera would be significant enough to be in the Opera House visions because she represents the first of the fully-cylon children to have been bred and born (and not grown in a giant petri dish). Some have previously speculated that Hera and Nicky might be like Adam and Eve when what remains of the fleet finds Earth, but what if Nicky is not significant at all? Perhaps Caprica’s child will be Adam to Hera’s Eve (or maybe he’ll be a male version of Eve to Hera’s Adam, given the birth order)?
I agree that “Sine Qua Non” was not the greatest of episodes, and was certainly poorly edited, but I enjoyed it non-the-less. Hearing Adama use the “Husker” call-sign was cool, but hearing Tigh say “This is Galactica Actual” made me giggle a bit gleefully
) It was a bit of a shock just seeing Eddy walk onto the flight deck in that flight suit (they had a suit that just happened to accomodate his middle-age spread?).
I can sort of understand the way things played out with the Lee/Zarek/Quorum storyline. Lee invited Zarek to join the search committee, Zarek told him to sit and spin, and Lee didn’t want to ask any other Quorum members to join b/c they’re a contentious lot who seem too busy quarrelling amongst themselves unless they’re being taken by the scruff of the neck and told “this is how it’s going to be”… i.e., if you invite just a few, the rest will feel they and their constituents are being slighted, but if you invite them all then nothing gets done because any suggestions die in committee. Lee probably never mentioned the search committee to anyone else on the Quorum until they had a candidate. Lee wanted a small committee to do a big job, and the only one left he thought he could trust (aside from Zarek, if he wasn’t too busy sulking to join) was Romo.
Whether Romo was purely nuts or just drawing down on Lee to get him to commit (and also being at least partially nuts), he worked for me either way. Romo was astute enough to go to Papadama with bureaucratic busywork to gauge whether there was any love lost between father and son after the trial, to make sure Lee would be accepted (or rather, if Adama might not accept Zarek if no other acceptable candidate was put forward), and also to indulge in needling Adama about how he’s lost Roslin and implying that he’s lost objectivity (while slyly venting his own frustrations at having lost everything and having no power to get it back while the Adama’s seem to get their way no matter who has to sacrifice for it).
When Lee went to the Quorum with his suggestion, Zarek could either silently fume or make his case for staying in power, but the Quorum would choose Lee over Zarek for obvious reasons (military command experience, family ties that can survive a mutiny, the candidate for change, etc.). They just didn’t film it, or else let it hit the cutting room floor. Anyhow, that’s how I see it having gone down.
June 6th, 2008 at 5:42 am
The hybrid said the dying leader would learn the truth of the opera house. If I remember correctly, Roslin never saw the shiny Final 5 in the opera house, but she did see Baltar and Six with Hera. She’ll end up learning about the Final 5, but I think she’ll also likely learn why Hera is there (again, Helo as the final Final, and Hera is the 1st true-born pure-bred cylon). Whether she’ll accept Six and Baltar as being the protectors of Hera (if that is what they will end up being) will be interesting to watch.
I could be wrong.
June 6th, 2008 at 8:59 am
I kinda agree with you — I’m not saying D’Anna wouldn’t ‘out’ Anders (who, if my memory serves, is the only one of the Penultimate Four on the baseship) but I wouldn’t put it past her to be really, really pissed about being boxed and/or be operating in some whole other headspace since her vision.
Having said that, I don’t entirely buy that it’s ‘too early’ for the Penultimate Four’s identities to start coming out. This is what the Rebels are obsessed with, after all, and without the moderating influence of Natalie to chill things out I don’t think there’s anything they won’t do to force them out of hiding. You’ve also got to wonder where the Hybrid and the newly-sentient Centurions fit into this chess game.
June 6th, 2008 at 10:04 am
Abaddon – “Kirsty, I like the theory. Roslin’s dream could’ve been purely her imagination. But that doesn’t explain where Baltar got the stream image. ”
I don’t think roslyns deram was in her imagination at all. She was on a barge on a river, not a stream. I think her dream is defanitly real. However…. that leads to another possiblity. Maybe Leoben was speaking of the river between worlds, the one Laura was sailing on. Ahhh Considering it may have something to do with the final 5 its defanitley a possibility.
And I don’t actually remember Baltars talking about streams…. I may have to sift through some episodes to find it.
June 7th, 2008 at 7:34 am
Wow! I loved this eposide! It sucked no BSG till Tuesday. I though It was so worth the 3 hour download (by the way I only got audio. lol) My favorite part was the Adama Tigh part, it was sooo cool, but a bit wired that they beat each other up them it’s like oh yeah I love Roslin and so now I’m making your cylon ass the new Admiral that’s in charge of the fleet. Good ep. though.
-Sam Kellie
June 8th, 2008 at 12:52 am
Overall I thoroughly enjoyed this episode, but that might have to do with the fact that I’m an Adama/Roslin shipper.
What I thought let it down was the whole Lee/Lampkin plot line. For one, the whole HeadCat idea really confused me. Untill I listened to Matt and Nat’s BSG podcast for the episode, I had no idea that the cat was in his imagination…I was really puzzled when Lee said the cat had been dead for weeks…maybe I’m just slow.
And why are they suddenly installing Lee as President. He’s only been in politics for a couple of months and Laura Roslin is MIA not KIA. Poor Zarek never gets a chance.
I also realised that Kara was acting very…normal, in this episode. Which is actually not normal. Kara has never acted normal throughout the whole series of BSG, be it punching officers, drinking and flying madly to screaming that they were going the wrong way to find Earth.
If I’m being unbiased, I’d give this episode a 5/10 but since I loved all the Adama/Tigh interaction and Bill’s “I can’t live without her” comment to Lee about Laura I give it a 9/10.
-SGC
June 9th, 2008 at 5:12 am
I thought it was cool they left the ‘JUMP!’ cliffhanger for an episode. Drew out the suspense.
I agree that Tighe and Adama after their brawl were all ‘We’re too old for this’ hahahaha
I wonder what Baltar will say about Caprica pregnant by Tighe. Does she have any feelings for him anymore and vice versa?
All this talk about interbreeding is silly. Anyone knows (and the BSG science advisor Kevin knows) that you can’t really make an impact with 12 people. That is, 12 cylons interbreeding with humans isn’t going to make a difference in population genetics even if they have a WHOLE LOT of babies, which is of course impossible anyway.
Funny how some people assume this board is US-based. It’s not…it’s Canuck-based…a constitutional monarchy of Britain, hahaha
Tootie