REVISIT: BSGcast: 4.12 “Revelations”
Flashback to mid-2008, this is what we signed up for: we were cliffhung like no other show on TV can do… in fact, cliffhung in a way Ron Moore has never done before, Revelations made the back half of 2008 go by REALLY slowly!
AND we announced the winner of the Ozma-7 Headphones AND tell you what’s in store as the Grand Prize for our giveaway in the back half of Season 4!
Hungry for more BSGcast? Don’t you worry, we’ve got a very special announcement about the Battlestar Galactica Prop Auction and our January 16+17 Frak-Party! Stay tuned…
June 13th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
————SPOILER—————-
Who is the Final Final?
It presumably can’t be (assuming D’anna knows who the Final Final Five is): Gaeta, Doc Cottle, Zarek, Appollo, Starbuck, Capt. Kelly, Bulldog, Romo Lampkin, or anyone else she knew from New Caprica who is still with the fleet. [Note: This might allow for anyone who was still on Pegasus or Galactica while the cylons occupied New Caprica to potentially be a suspect (including Hoshi, Racetrack, and maybe Dualla). However, I’m inclined to think she knows who the Final Final is, implying he/she is either in the Basestar or else dead.]
The Final Final Five still could be: Helo, Roslin, Baltar, Adama, Seelix, and (gasp) Hotdog, because they were all on the Baseship when D’anna said the Four were in the fleet. The Fifth could also be one of the dead, including Duck or Maya (D’anna saw both dead on New Caprica), Kat (never really on D’anna’s radar beyond when she flashed her ass on glalctica), Billy, Admiral Cain, Ellen Tigh, or Kendra Shaw (not on her radar either). As noted above, Hoshi, Racetrack, and Dualla could technically be the Final Final as they weren’t on New Caprica and I don’t think any of them were on the hanger deck when she came aboard (although she would have run into Dualla when they all went down to the Temple of Aurora). My money is on Helo to win, Gaius to place, and Roslin to show
June 13th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
Having seen the preview stream on the web I will give some thoughts and things to look out for
Firstly while I thought as an individual episode this was very good and that the last scene could have worked as a depressing end to the series if the lead up had been done right as the last episode before a 6 month gap I was dissapointed as I did not get a sense of resolution or tension just one of despair.
Secondly does anyone else think they landed near the temple of Aurora which was mentioned at the start of the episode and any idea what city it is meant to be. Related to this was anyone else half expecting them to replicate the last scene of planet of the apes with a statue of liberty reveal (if no one does a youtube video combining the scenes I will be amazed). It also looks like Caprica 6 is released as Tigh is comforted by a 6.
High Points
Brilliant performance by Olmos showing Adama having a breakdown
Lee finally shows some backbone
Tigh again shines and the scene where he tells Adama he is a cylon is the highpoint of the episode especially given Adamas attempts to convince Tigh that he was wrong about being a cylon
D’anna takes charge easily and Roslin gets payback for her and Helos betrayals does anyone think if they had been honest with substitute Athena D’anna would never have got away with taking anyone hostage
Given D’annas comments about their only being 4 cylons in the fleet it looks likely that the final cylon is either a new character from Earth or a dead character (how about President Adar just for sheer irony, the cylons destroy the colonies while they are being run by a cylon), the only half feasable humans who are on the ship are Baltar, Roslin and possibly Helo as D’anna lets Adama go and she threatens to kill everyone else
Baltar saying I knew it when Tori tells Roslin she is a cylon and then backing down slightly as IMO he realises the only way he can reveal how he knew is to reveal Head 6 and Head Baltar exist
Baltar thanking Roslin for not killing him and their reconcilliation of sorts
Lee and Roslin reconcile
Leoben being the cylon who takes Baltar to try to talk sense into D’anna and how correct Baltar is in his analysis of her actions
Problems with episode
Too short, there was little shown of the Tori and the old humanoid cylons getting to know each other, A specific mention of Roslins and Helos betrayal last week would have been nice, What does Caprica 6 think of being pregnant and another cylon being the father
Episode Rating 9/10 as an episode, 7/10 as a finale episode
Final Cylon Specualtion
Assuming D’anna recognised the final cylon (i suspect it was the one she asked forgiveness from unless it was Anders) after this episode my top candidates in no particular order are
1) President Adar
Elosha
2) Baltar: Still not 100% eliminated but IMO very doubtful given that D’anna did not out him
3) Billy
4) Admiral Cain
5) Kendra Shaw
6) the Original Hybrid reborn
7) One of the Cylon children (as a reincarnation of the original who is dead)
9) A prominent dead character I have forgotten about
10) A new character from Earth
11) A new character killed on the colonies who was prominent enough for D’anna to recognise
June 13th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
————–SPOILER——————
Random notes on the episode:
Adama’s breakdown was understandable, but it felt a bit over the top. It felt as if he was having an extended Shatner-esque moment (“Khaaaaaan!”). It would’ve worked better for me if they hadn’t condensed the scene down to an out-of-sequence collage of reactions. But that’s just me. It would’ve felt less contrived and more in character if it were only a partial meltdown.
Tyrol seems happy/relieved to be outted. He even seemed a bit chipper in the launch tube.
Even Figurski gets some play off a cute knuckledragger toward the end there
June 13th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
[...] BSGCAST page for Revelations is up and if you want somewhere to debate the episode I recommend checking it out, if you put in a good [...]
June 13th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
I think that about covers it
. my money is still on Adm Cain as the final cylon. I don’t know how they’ll do it but mark my words..yes, mark my words. *twiddles fingers like Montgomery Burns*
June 13th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
Theories:
It seems to me that this is why the Final Five left Earth for the Colonies… to find a new home because their old one was ravaged by war (“all this has happened before, and will happen again…”). It may even be that the survivors of Earth made the trip over several generations, cloning themselves to survive the long journey, only to be found by the cylons, who then adapted the cloning technology to create their own skinjobs. The Final Five then left/escaped the cylons and hid in the Colonies because they weren’t down with the cylons’ plans to eliminate the humans (too much like what happened on Earth). This would be why they would ultimately oppose the cylons: even if they couldn’t remember exactly who they were or why they needed to leave, there was an impression of how genocide is bad and we can’t be a party to it.
Whether the Significant Seven were around or not before the Final Five left is uncertain at this point. Either they were and their memories of the Five were deleted (maybe by Cavil, or else by the Cylon God), or else the Seven were created after the Five left (skinjobs v.2.0). Also, either the Cylon God was from Earth (and thus perhaps the Final Fifth), or else he was the cylon’s attempt at a hybridization of man and machine (I seem to recall someone posting that Greystone from the coming Caprica series is rumored to have become the Cylon God).
June 13th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
Overall good episode even though the plot points felt rushed. I wish they address the fact that Athena killed a women in cold blood and why they let her out. I wanted to see Caprica 6’s reunion with Baltar and D’anna. There is a rule in television its “show don’t tell”.
-Tyler
June 13th, 2008 at 5:08 pm
Two more points that I forgot for my epic post above
D’anna’s adamence that there are only 4 cylons in the fleet, willingness to kill the pilots on the basestar and her not outing anyone on the basestar in my mind mean the (original identity) of the final cylon is one of the following
1) Someone who is dead and D’anna knows it (occured before her boxing and probably before the fall of New Caprica) which means a character killed in the course of the series or on Caprica (additional candidate Maya, Heras adoptive mother)
2) A specific copy of one of the original 7 : Only realisitic candidates now are Boomer and D’anna herself
3) If D’anna knew the faces of everyone in the fleet (or could access that information which is possible given cylon technology) then a new character from Earth
Another thing to remember is back in Kobals last Gleaming, the tale of the dying leader says that
“the leader would not live to enter the promised land”
Now everyone was assuming Earth was the promised land but Roslin is still alive and walked on Earth so perhaps Earth is not the promised land perhaps they go to another planet which in the cyclical nature of the story is either “New Kobal” OR a world they go to after Earth but before Kobal. Remember the Hybrids prophecy mentioned things being an end and not a beggining
June 13th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
my only problem with this theory is that it doesn’t fit with the F5 archetype. ever since the F5 were introduced it seemed to me that they were either to be feared or revered by the other cylons — the question is, why? also, their identities were unknown until they were revealed to D’Anna. again, why? there’s definitely a cylon heirarchy which seems to start from the F5, the significant seven, centurions, etc. so, are the F5 good? bad? was there a previous cylon war we don’t know about that involved the F5 and skinjobs (all this has happened before…)? it seems like the more layers we peel back the more they sprout right back up.
June 13th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
WARNING THIS IS MY REVIEW OF “REVELATIONS” SPOILERS EVERYWHERE!!!!
and without furthur ado………
Revelations!
Man I love me some BSG!!!!!
Having just watched this on the scifi stream I haveta write it down. This was a brilliant episode and reminds me exactly why it is I watch BSG in the first place. I am So joyous to have this wonderful show and am sad we are now mid-season of the last season. So to comment and break down the episode.
a. Tory and her getting to the basestar.
This was a brillant move I thought saying that she needs to go give laura her meds and doesn’t mind becoming a hostage. She looks noble and is really joining the Cylons at the same time. She had a powerful performance as the wrapping up of Tory and her line that she doesn’t take orders from Laura anymore is classic.
b. Deanna- warrior princess!
I love Lucy Lawless, anyway she has the great plan of holding hostages of the colonial fleet until she gets the final four. More treachery from the cylon side and also I noticed there was no discussion among the cylons, they all did what Deanna said. How did she get appointed leader? I thought cylons were a democracy, even though they were the rebels.
c. The Tigh/Adama confession
Masterful, these two men in this scene with such heightened emotion, finding out your best friend is the traitor. Tigh admiting he is a cylon and Bill in disbelief. The scene after of Bill in extreme pain and agony also was great to watch Eddie do. Truly a touching moment and I felt so sorry for Bill losing his best friend.
d. Baltar and the Air-lock.
Baltar did a supurb job of being the negoctiator and the voice of reason telling Deanna about how violence is not the answer, how it didn’t work before and why did she think it would work now, Also the earlier scene where He thanks Laura for not killing him for his help in the destruction of the colonies was genuine and they had a real connection during this moment and finally saw things from a common ground.
e. The peace accords between human and cylon.
Two races bury the hatchett and decide to work together to achieve the goal. Lee forms the first peace and a cease fire is called. Lee did an excellent job of being the president in a crisis situation and handled it like a pro, and I hope as Laura said he was not done in this capacity just because she was back. I first thought it too conveint that he became president but I now recant and say Ron did a good job in playing it out this way.
Now WE ROll THE HARD SIX and
f. WE FIND EARTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Galactica COMES HOME! During this scene I challenge all of the BSG fans not to be crying at the end of it. I made it to about the third beat after, we have arrived. This is the penultimate scene of BSG. The objective is finally reached and we have still half a season to go. Of course it is way too fast and strange, How magically everyone has forgiven everyone for whatever they did to each other on the way to earth, so all is forgiven and be my guest. but the season needed to be rushed to put two seasons in one. I still loved this scene and was so happy they actually made it and for long time fans of classic BSG, we got to see them make it. Not just told so in the spinoff.
So this has been a wonderful ride and now my questions.
We get to Earth and the cities are destroyed, Are they supposed to start over new and repopulate the planet? They have a new beginning and it will be interesting to see where Ron goes from here. and Who is the final Cylon????? All of the sudden it’s only four we need to get to earth, unless the viper is a cylon, but they didn’t say so. So the fifth cylon is not in the fleet and not with the cylons, is it on Earth? Is it Earth? It’s going to be a long wait for the second half of the last season. Once again, I love this show and it broke the cycle because last week was really good too. Two eps in a row, way to go Ron.
June 13th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
Charles said: “2) A specific copy of one of the original 7 : Only realisitic candidates now are Boomer and D’anna herself”
I think the fact that there are 12 models means that one of the models can’t be a copy of one of the models.
June 13th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
Before I log off for the night some not so serious ideas of what could happen next given that they are now on a post apocalyptic Earth
1) Some giant talking apes arrive on horseback starting the spin off series Galactica of the Apes
The Vogons arrive to destroy Earth to make way for a hyperspatial express route
2) The cloverfield monster or Godzilla shows up
3) Zombies!!
4) Giant mutated creatures attack
5) Terminators arrive and form an alliance with the centurians, the humans and skinjobs are rescued by John Conner
6) They find a mysterious bunker belonging to the Dharma Initiative
7) They encounter a horde of feral children
9) The humans and cylons must settle their differences in the thunderdome “two men enter, one man leaves”
10) There is a stupid plot twist at the end of the series and Leoben realises the new BSG was actually a film by M Night Shyamalan
June 13th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
OK Matt — I think you got your curveball. President Lee Adama states what is (to me) the fraking obvious: “… but all this doesn’t have to happen again.” Well, it doesn’t and Gods damn it, Earth is not going to be the magical solution to all their problems after all. Something or someone has played both the Cylons and the Colonials like cheap fiddles — played them with prophecies and visions, twisted their own pride and fears and low hatreds into an endless cycle of hate and destruction.
I’ve often said that, for me, the whole show is about letting go of the lies and self-deceptions most of us need just to get through the day — and that plays out from the individual (seriously, when does Kara stop blaming all her s**t on Mama and/or Leoben) through to the nature of whole species (the Cylons).
The one thing I did find unsatisfying — while understanding the logic behind it with the clock ticking in narrative and practical storytelling terms — was that D’Anna was quite so willing to nuke Galactica, with three of the Penultimate Four aboard. OK, you can fanwank it away by saying ‘well, she (or the Threes) also played chicken with the Temple of the Five, and won. But we’re talking about the last Three in the universe, and she wanted the PF so badly she started taking hostages.
librlman wrote:
Dang, that’s harsh.
I get where you’re coming from, but I rather liked it — you know, we’re so used to Bill Adama expressing emotion with an eye-brow twitch and laconic mumble I can see how that reads as way OTT. But you know something, it makes sense to me — Adama, and EJO’s wonderful performance, gives me the sense of a man who doesn’t make friends easily, but when he does they’re solid. From the mini-series on, it’s been as if no matter how many times Saul Tigh fraks up — and he fraks up A LOT — his best friends sees something in him nobody else (not even Saul himself) does. And THIS is just too much — what hurts more, that Saul Tigh is a Cylon, or that his BFF, someone whose arse he’s covered more times than he can remember, LIED TO HIM ABOUT SOMETHING THIS IMPORTANT.
June 13th, 2008 at 7:55 pm
Hey all!
Tonight after everyone watches “Revelations” come on over to BSG Pilots for a real time chat about the episode! Everyone is welcome… the more the merrier…after all, what do you all have to do for the next 7-8 months after this show? LOL!
Just click my name and follow the home page link to The Launch Tube discussion room! Hope to see you all there! Matt and Nat we’d love it if you’d both stop by too!
June 13th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
What do you people want???!!! Galactica is the best show on the tube. (BY FAR) It’s like rain….would it ever rain if it waited until everyone wanted it. Name one other show that even comes close to this.
June 13th, 2008 at 8:17 pm
I think dramatically the episode worked wonderfully. Saul converts his treachery into heroism and nobility. All the sides are rearranged, in fact what are the sides now? And then the great joke on all the fans. We were all awaiting the last Cylon reveal, have been obsessing about it for months and expect to find out tonight, and instead the great reveal is the Earth instead; which we probably all expected at the end of the second part of the series. Fantastic misdirection and takes us to a completely different place. All bets are off and another six months of speculation can begin on where the series can go next. Hats off.
June 13th, 2008 at 9:37 pm
I KNEW IT WAS IN THE FUTURE!
June 13th, 2008 at 9:38 pm
This show was effing brilliant…more later when I get my brain to settle down!
June 13th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
Nice tension filled episode.
Post apocalyptic earth….
Looks like it was destroyed hundreds or thousands of years ago. Perhaps resulting in an exodus.
The cycle repeats, again, again, again, again……………
Nicely done.
Now all I have left is Stargate Atlantis until the new eps roll out. SIGH
June 13th, 2008 at 9:55 pm
What really bugs me about Humans betraying their Cylon counterpart is this: is Humanity worth saving if they keep trying to screw over their, so-called, allies every chance they get. All right, the Cylons almost destroyed the Human civilization. Honestly, if I were a Colonial, I would want nothing less than the total annihilation, and I do mean total, of those Cylons SOB. But, Given the fact that I’m not a Colonial, and being from Earth, I can appreciate the conflict for what it is: two races hungering for salvation! I never liked Roslin, I hope she dies before she does any more evil. Wonder why I hate her? Because she’s a politician! It’s as simple as that. Politicians, whether they live on Earth or in outer space, are bad news. Almost, almost, every decision made by Roslin ended up being a screw-up! Sorry Bill, but she’s got to go, fast, or else, she’ll drag what is left of the Human kind down whit her. And don’t get me started on the Quorum: like in real life, (Whether it be the Senate and the House of Representatives (US) or our own useless Cabinet members in Canada, their members are worthless pieces of sh.t! They’re a bunch a parasites targeting what ever you might have in your pockets and to make stupid rules that would only benefit 1% of the population, but would impact 99% of it. Now that we have established that Roslin must die as quickly as possible, let move on to an another subject, shall we!
Humans, Colonials. Do they deserve to live? Are they all like Pike or Seelix? Are they all stupid as the Sagittarons? Are there people like Karl Agathon or is he the only voice of reason in that fleet? What is cool about BSG is the fact that they show just how dubious we are. Everyone wants something from someone else, and we don’t really care how we get. The religious groups, the greens, the anti-this, the pro-that will….
I stated writing this post before tonight’s episode. Seen the crumbled Brooklyn Bridge at the end validated my assumption, we’re not worth saving!
Note : Roslin didn’t decide anything tonight, the Adamas did! Way to go Tigh, you’re a real stud. You stood up for your enemies/friends even though they threatened to flush you out into space. You the main Man!
P.S. We have to wait t’ill 2009 to savour the rest of BSG, what the hell gives?
Bacchus Magnus
June 13th, 2008 at 9:55 pm
My brain just totally exploded. I love this goddamn show. I laughed, I cried, I cheered, I screamed at the tv, I cried again, and gasped, I cried some more… Seriously, this episode put me through the ringer.
I cannot believe that they found Earth so early in the season. And Earth sucks! Seriously? Oh, they’ve been through so much! Hopefully by the series finale there’ll be some way for things to end slightly hopefully.
But I am so happy that the cylons and humans are like bffs now. Makes me feel all warm inside, them sharing the soul-crushing disappointment of post-apocolyptic Earth.
We should have seen this coming after the whole New Caprica debacle. Ron Moore loves to shake things up.
HOW IS THE WHOLE WORLD NOT WATCHING AND COLLECTIVELY CRAPPING THEMSELVES OVER THIS AMAZING SHOW?
June 13th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
revelations ending boring it would have bin cool to have seen the military get angry this could be the conversation”unidentifed craft this is stratigic air comand please identify” “staratigic air command this is the battlestar galactica” “the what please use true idenitdy or we will use force” repeat this is the galactica from the twelve colonys of kobal” then statratigic air command lanchs nukes at the galactica not hurting it and it comes and lands at dullus air port. not just a stupid nucler winter hapely it is not over.
June 13th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
Great Frakin Episode!
2 things that stick in mind about this episode:
Now that we see that Earth has been destroyed, are Hera and Nicky Adam and Eve? Is their destiny to restart the population of Earth?
Diana said she the final four are with the fleet. Is the final one on the base star, and is it Laura, Baltar or Helo or is the final one yet to be born?
June 13th, 2008 at 10:02 pm
uhhh I… uhhh …. Holy Zeitgeist batman! They found a post apocalyptic earth!!! WTF!!!
umm… I’ll come back to this later.. just trying to let it sink in.
June 13th, 2008 at 10:08 pm
librlman, I don’t agree Adama’s crying was over the top at all.
Imagine finding out your oldest and best friend, the one you fought side by side against the enemy for 2 long wars was the enemy after all.
How do you not break down and lose it?
June 13th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
First of all, HOLY FRAK that was the best episode yet, I wasn’t predicting earth would be a nuclear wasteland, but I did get a fishy feeling that to be BSG after all of the excitement of finding earth RDM would throw us a curve ball and do something completly unexpected that would leave us with our jaws open.
Here’s my prediction as to why earth’s destroyed, the Hybrid said that Starbuck would be the harbringer of death, so what if by some unkown force (maybe the Cylon god) she did travel to earth and in doing so without her knowing it, sparked a nuclear war all across the planet because of some prediction they had or scare about seeing someone just show up out of no where.
Also, the scene where Lee is comforting his father and Adama is having a mental breakdown is the BEST acting i’ve seen out of Edward James Olmos, everything he’s done on this show has been a gem, but this one was the best of them all.
Also, does any one know when BSG is returning? I know i’ve seen on the boards untill 2009, but it didn’t say that in the promo for the rest of the season, and if it were so I would expect them to say it, like when season 3 ended and promply after they said “BSG returning in January 2008″
So does anyone know officially when BSG is returning?
June 13th, 2008 at 10:16 pm
So, here’s the thing… I’m even far more convinced that Baltar is Jesus! Let’s recap, shall we:
Baltar heals the dying child. ( The miracle of the dying child, lazarus resurrection etc)
Baltar gets attacked in the bathroom, his disciple attempts to defend him by attacking the attackers, Baltar stops her from hurting them. ( Just like peter in the Garden)
Baltar destroys the temple.
Women discuss “How are we going to feed all these people?” just like Feeding the 5000 in the Bible.
Last week Baltar was pierced in his side (just like Jesus) taking the sin of all man on his shoulders offering forgiveness even to Roslyn.
The return to Earth. Revelations… no kidding! …..And now after years of fighting…..The earth has been destroyed during the great tribulation….. Jesus (Baltar) returns to earth with the raptured remnant to claim his Kingdom.
And as for the fifth…. Why even mention Kat in this episode? Nothing is insignificant. If there is one thing we’ve learned from this highly predictable season is that every thing is that everything is in the details.
So, my bet is that it is Kat. She is on Earth. Maybe it’s wishful thinking.
June 13th, 2008 at 10:22 pm
Wow,
interesting quote by Kara “Parents need to die in order for children to reach their full potential” could be read as, “Humans need to die before their children, which are the cylons, can reach their full potential.”
I’m not surprised that it was a post apocalyptic Earth because I thought after Faith that “Earth” was in another realm. Well, the home of the thirteenth may still be in another realm because Earth sure isn’t home. Crazy idea, maybe on Earth Cylons ruled and Humans revolted? Now the final five come from another realm because they have transcended the pain and suffering that exists in the current realm that everything has unfolded in.
How will everyone cross over into the next realm? Obviously the secret of the Opera House has yet to be revealed, but where do they go from here and who leads them there? Ron Moore wrote in one his last blog posts on the Scifi website that he loved the ending of the Sopranos because it was realistic. He said and I paraphrase, “In real life people leave your life and you never get to know how their lives end up and your okay with that. Sopranos were a family that left our life and we don’t get a campy resolution that shows how it all gets worked out. I wish I had the balls to of come up with that ending.”
His blog post about the Sopranos really makes me wonder what he’s got up his shelve for the end of the show. I am concerned that we will get some nebulous ending that makes us come up with the resolution, such as “Oh wait The cycle will continue in this realm, peace is only found in the next realm after death…oh I see nice spiritual take or metaphor on life Ron D!
“
June 13th, 2008 at 10:26 pm
I absolutely loved everyone celebrating “Earth!” And just moments later we see Roslin, muttering “Earth” like it was ashes in her mouth as the radiation meter crackled away. Just that one word, delivered like poison. Before the camera even panned to the destruction it was pretty clear what we were about to see.
There were lots of small nice touches to this episode. I’d assumed it was by choice that Baltar hadn’t gone to see Caprica since he was released, not just because she was under guard, and that seems to be so. Whatever there was between them is broken now. Incidentally, I think it’s been 5 or 6 episodes (since he levitated) since Head Six has made an appearance as well. It’s been interesting to see how Baltar conducts himself as his own man. The show has always shown us Baltar’s conversations with Head Six in the past, and the lack of them in the last couple weeks (starting with his “take my hand, chief” moment and culminating with his talking D’ana out of a nuclear showdown) suggests that this is the real Baltar we’re seeing, doing what he wants to do and not being manipulated for the first time since the series started.
So… suddenly D’ana is talking about four cylons. She apologized to one in the Temple – does this mean that cylon is dead? What else could she have had to apologize for, unless she was apologizing to Saul for his torture? It is a little unlikely they’d all have survived the holocaust on the colonies, then all survived subsequent attacks, and all made it onto Galactica, but it seems like it’d be a let down, after all the build-up, just to find out the Final cylon didn’t even exist anymore. This leaves Baltar, Roslin, Helo, and assorted others as suspects. But I see no reason why D’ana wouldn’t have told them who they were, given the extremist attitutude she took towards getting the rest of them.
Also, D’ana clearly expected the four cylons to know who they were. I missed the first 3 minutes, so unless this was explained then there must be a reason for it. The final Four DID know who they were, and D’ana anticipated it. That suggests that a fifth cylon would also be expected to know their identity. In any event, there being only 4 left in the fleet rules out Gaeta, Cottle, Dee, or any of the other Galactica crew. It also rules out the Adamas. The whole point was to gather up the Final Four, not to release one of them.
Anyway, I’m starting to get the idea that “Kara’s ship is brand new” and Kara being “different” and Earth being nuked, after Kara described breathing the air and seeing green, means that the Maelstrom was a wormhole to an alternate Earth. I hope not, I always hated those episodes of Star Trek. But I trust the BSG writers to come up with an astonishing tale no matter what it is. With only half a season left, perhaps what they come up with will be unavoidably contrived or let-downish, but I do have faith they’ll continue to produce the best TV I’ve ever seen.
And yeah, count me among the number who were surprised at how emotional I got towards the end, with the celebrating. Even though I knew it wasn’t really the end, it has definitely been one wild, draining ride.
June 13th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
I keep on thinking about the hybrids prophecy and all that we dont know already….
The dying leader will know the truth of the Opera House…..what is the truth of the Opera House? It lies in ruins-did that symbolize how Earth was in ruins and that somehow Laura should have realized this beforehand?
Kara Thrace will lead humanity to its end…….You are the harbinger of death Kara Thrace. Again does this point towards what they discovered on Earth. That death seems to follow Kara Thrace wherever she goes? To elaborate this one a bit obviously Kara has quite a few kills on the Cylons-she is widely believed to be the best Viper pilot out there….so Death certainly follows her every time she launches out of the tube. It followed her back to Caprica when she was retrieving the arrow of Apollo, it followed her to Kobol, and onwards to New Caprica. Does that mean that her appearance on Earth brought about the destruction that we saw at the end. Could she have been the cause of the apocalypse on Earth?
And of course there is still the unanswered final Cylon….. D’anna seemed adament that the final one was not in the fleet so like most people I believe that means that the final one is already on the basestar.
June 13th, 2008 at 10:59 pm
So, here’s the thing… I’m even far more convinced that Baltar is Jesus!
You know something – I’m so fraking over this ‘Gaius Christ’ stuff, not because it particularly offends my religious sensibilties but because it’s just so trite and lazy. If you really want to go there, Caprica Six (how many times has she died and come back from the dead thanks to her belief that God really is Love, and the genocide of humanity was a sin born out of pride?) or Tyroll (the closest thing to a carpenter in the BSG ‘verse) are better, but still poor, Jesus analogues. If nothing else, what I really like about the treatment of religion in BSG is that it’s subtle and nuanced, not setting up crude and mindless analogues for Christian icons.
June 13th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
Ummmmm……did you see the…..ummmmmmm……you told Bill what?………ummmmmm….awww hell….HOLY FRAK! I gotta let this sink in a while…talk to you all soon…..
June 13th, 2008 at 11:11 pm
It’s not nuked! They’re just using the “out of phase” technology that Samantha Carter used the save Earth from the Ori!
First of all, I’d like to congratulate Tori for officially winning the BIGGEST BITCH IN THE UNIVERSE Award. Laura genuinely tries to reach out to her, and what does she get? “I’m done taking orders from you…”
Also may I be the first to say: “Figursky! You lucky dawg!”
Now President Obama… I mean Adama, Really does live up to Lampkin’s description of a “bright, shiny beacon of hope”. With one handshake, and some of that linguistic magic that he showed us in the courtroom, he gets the colonials and the cylons to kiss and make out once and for all. Or so it seems. For now.
Now as for the airlocking fiasko, was it really neccessay for the D’anna to start killing people immeadiatly like that? Isn’t the point of hostage taking to KEEP the Hostages for bargaining purposes, and not to get the otherside to get pissed off? And did D’anna’s actions remind anyone else of what she was doing over the Algae Planet? The same kind of stuff that got her boxed in the first place?!? “No, I know what Adama’s going to do! Leave it up to me!” It got so bad they had to go get GAIUS BALTAR of all people to talk sense into her! The man who is a walking can of seven-kinds-of-crazy salad!
And then, Leland Stotlemyer Adama really tries airlock to Tigh, potentially one of the only clues to finding Earth. Really, Lee? REALLY? you could’ve just said, ” Whoops, it looks like I’m going to airlock Saul Tigh!”, while Tigh simmers uncomfortably in the brig. Does Starbuck have to save humanities’ collective asses AGAIN?
And Adm. William “Husker” Adama, crying like a screaming and crying like a girl. Really, Admiral? REALLY? I did note that he seems to have run out of model ships to smash in fits of rage, so he must resort to the objects on his desk, and eventually the desk itself.
I would like to know, though, when the crew had the time to get their goth clothes out before heading down to the surface? Everyone was wearing black. I seriously want a jacket like Baltar’s though.
To top it all off, I’d like to say that RDM made them get to Earth in a way that was approprate for the Show. No missiles to shoot the fleet out of orbit, no dinosaurs, no massive Terran fleet to rid the galaxy of Cylons. Just more of what the crew has been used to.
June 13th, 2008 at 11:12 pm
Another thought that I just had about the the dying leader. All this time everybody has assumed that the dying leader referenced there was Roslin-for obvious reasons. But it would be fair to say that she has shared command at times with Adama. Also Lee has been the ‘leader’ of the colonies since Roslin disappeared-although granted she reappeared. Could either Adama be the dying leader?
June 13th, 2008 at 11:14 pm
Perhaps this post-apocalyptic Earth is one from the past? Far back in the past…Atlantis? Perhaps this was part of the ongoing cycle of civil wars.
Hmmm…
June 13th, 2008 at 11:29 pm
OMG do I have speculations! I knew that the human were too darn happy for their own good. Well, we know that the final cylon has to either be someone that was hostage on the base ship or Starbuck is the original cylon. Her dad was a musician (music plays a part of controlling FF) and she did paint the eye of Jupiter and she was the one who figure out the raptor. I at first didn’t want Starbuck to be the final cylon, but after watching the episode where Starbuck was in her old apartment (“Valley of Darkness”)with Helo I think she could very well be the ONE and I just change my mind. The final five have been to earth! Well, Starbuck has been to earth (maybe twice). Now, if she was the final one then why wouldn’t she remember that earth was frakked? If you want to really look for theories read Revelations in the Bible. She is the harborages of death. Right? I think Ron is using Revelations for a lot of inspiration. Seven Cylons Seven headed beast in the Bible, you see where I’m going. Also, there are three male FF and one female. Tigh, has never had a child, but if the last FF is a female LIKE IT SHOULD BE. Then they might be the Adams and Eves of Kobal (Eden) and after they sinned they were ran off to find Caprica. I’m now thinking that resurrection and reincarnation may play a part in all this. Let think about it. The centurions created seven skin jobs to resurrect to a new body. Their ships are controlled by hybrid. Hybrid may be children of the original Five. Centurions do know how they are. Who’s to say that the FF aren’t hybrid themselves. They are different. Where did the original hybrids come from? Can they reincarnate. Maybe the FF reincarnate. I’m glad that Adama question Tighs growing old, cause that has plaged me for well over a year. Tigh even said that he was a different type of cylon and he said it with conviction. I know that I’m probably way out there, but I thinking that BSG has been covering all type of beliefs and religions through out the shows run. Think about all the head people. Maybe they are in limbo until they reached earth are when they are ready to reincarnate. The hybrid children, the director made a point to show both parent/parents with them. They maybe the Adam and Eve of Earth. I FRAKKING LOVE THIS SHOW. I could go on all night, but I’m tired. Wait, wait, wait, what if Helo is the last FF….What if FF cylons and seven centurions made skin jobs can procreate? Tigh and Caprica Six might have a boy and that would make Hera and new baby boy a different type of hybrid. HMMM…. oh the wait!
June 13th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
“And of course there is still the unanswered final Cylon….. D’anna seemed adament that the final one was not in the fleet so like most people I believe that means that the final one is already on the basestar.”
Helo, Seelix, Roslin, Baltar or the basestars Hybrid?
Not Roslin or Baltar. Too obvious.
They are already in the Last Supper pic – Per RDM this means they aint Cylons.
This leaves Helo, Seelix or the basetar hybrid. Or maybe the guy D’anna spaced – ooops!
This also eliminates Cottle, Dee, Gaeta, Lee, Starbuck, Adm. Adama or and anybody else on Galactica, or within the civilian fleet D’anna was more than ready to nuke.
…………………….
Are we all so sure this is earth. They went out of their way to not show any easily identifiable land masses – perhaps this was to screw with our heads for 6 months. In Crossroads 2, they did do a zoom on what was clearly earth, but is this the same planet theyve landed on?
………
D’anna and Tori will pay for their sins. I wouldnt be surprised if they killed each other and took the rest of the Cylons with them.
…………………….
Baltar didnt stop D’anna from nuking the fleet. Good attempt though, but this was just RDM attempting to tease us with this “Redemption” prophecy stuff. The howls of terrible suffering hasnt happened yet – and Baltar has been out of the shadows for a while. So he cant be the last cylon
June 14th, 2008 at 12:08 am
So….anyone relized that Roslin isn’t dead yet? And that they’re on Earth now? Of course, it may not be Earth, but I think it is. And Roslin is still alive. Wtf?
Awsome ep. Perhaps the best cliffhanger ever.
OMG there was CHOIR in this episode! CHOIR! Bear has outdone himself once again. Simply an amazing score and episode all around.
June 14th, 2008 at 12:10 am
WOW… That was the shit…
I’m not sure where to begin, the whole episode just blew me away. I figured that Earth would be destroyed, didn’t the original series do the same sort of thing (don’t know, just started watching it this week). They should have totally had some building/structure that everyone would recognize like The Eiffel Tower, or The Statue of Liberty, or The Colosseum, or Vatican or the Dome of the Rock or something!!! Oh well, BSG hasn’t been this good since the Mini-Series! WOW… Just wow… the rest of Mr. Lovejoy says pretty much my opinion of the show so I’ll leave it at that.
PS: BTW Radiation lasts like 250 years or less, so does with Nuclear War mean it was a recent event? If So is there survivors?
June 14th, 2008 at 12:16 am
RebelSnoopy: “Are we all so sure this is earth. They went out of their way to not show any easily identifiable land masses – perhaps this was to screw with our heads for 6 months. In Crossroads 2, they did do a zoom on what was clearly earth, but is this the same planet theyve landed on?”
I’m not so sure it’s Earth, and its for the same reasons and details you’ve given about “Crossroads” and this episode. TBH, I think that, since it’s becoming apparent that the Beings of Light may be involved with all that’s going on, even to the point where in one deleted scene, where its discussed why the war between the Gods broke out sounds strikingly similar to the events with the Beings of Light and Count Iblis in the old show. I’m beginning to think that the map and the Viper didn’t point the way to Earth, but was pointing the way to the planet that the Beings of Light came from.
June 14th, 2008 at 12:21 am
“Osmium Says:
February 7th, 2008 at 4:19 am
I don’t know whether or not this has been suggested yet, or if it has been made impossible by a detail I did not pick up on, but if the a thirteenth group of humans left to colonize Earth and a the hybrid from razor escaped to continue its own evolution to complete itself, and the story goes in a cycle, if the humans destroyed the base ship then would not that be to suggest that the Lords of Kobol destroyed the fledgling human outposts on Earth. However the prophecy did say following Kara would lead to humanities demise, which would be pretty unlikely if they show up to Earth and all they find is a couple of ruins, unless the entire fleet accidentally jumps into the Earth. ”
This brings me back to my theory that maybe the Lords of Kobol destroyed Earth as the humans destroyed the Hybrid, and I thought I may have gotten something right for once, but then I remembered what Adama had said to Roslin in her vision of her death asking her how she could die at a pit stop, at least I think that might be what he said. So maybe this isn’t Earth, but then there is the problem with the constellations matching.
June 14th, 2008 at 12:49 am
OMG!!!! That was a frakkin’ AWESOME episode!!! I was on the edge of my couch the WHOLE TIME!!! I had a feeling that Earth would be virtually uninhabited and jacked. Seriously jacked. But there was obviously a reason for them to go there to begin with, and we STILL don’t know where Starbuck fits into the whole thing and we STILL don’t know what the HECK she is and we STILL don’t know who the 5th Cylon is. It looks like Cylons and Humans will cohabit earth and get their freak on and make more hybrid babies. Who are indeed the “Lords of Kobol”? What is their purpose in wanting the Humans and the Cylons to come together?
“All this has happened before, and shall happen again”.
Not to state the obvious, but it seems that the unique Final Five are hybrids exactly like Hera and Nick. But who were their parents?
Two things that will stay with me for a very long time: Tory’s long repressed bitchyness FINALLY reveals itself.
Adama’s ULTRA incredible breakdown.
(EJA should get an Emmy for this role. He is simply and phenomonal actor. Bar none!) Loved that scene! Uber intense and viscerally terrifying.
Lucy Lawless—what can I say? I LOVE HER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She ROCKS! This ep proved how she continues to sink her teeth in this juicy role. What a performance. Again, somebody should just drive by the set and throw Emmys everywhere.
Interesting CLOSE UP on Dualla. Actually, there were more than one. Hmmm…….
Can’t wait for more. Maaaaan. The wait is going to be excrutiating.
June 14th, 2008 at 1:06 am
I totally had tears when they found Earth and made that final jump!
I had a little theory. I know that everyone thinks that the colonials have arrived at a post apocalyptic earth. Which is very possible. But as I was re-watching the footage I realized that there were no real discerable landmarks. No statue of liberty (*cough* planet of the apes) No San fransico bridge, and some of the architecture doesn’t look very much like what we have in most modern society today. So I starting thinking, what if they actually landed.. near Earth! What if they are technically on Mars. Thousands and thousands of years in the past. What if they landed on Mars (Mars is the roman name for ares the god of war) then the 1’s, 4’s and 5’s show up with some high powered bomb and nuked the whole planet turning into the red planet we know today. All of the human race from the 12 colonies gets wiped out. Then the 1’s 4’s and 5’s after retrieving the remaining cylon models who by this time can’t do anything about the destruction of the human race, discover another planet and call it the new earth. They arrive to find many peaceful loving humans that have no idea who they are dealing with. (Humans that are the surviors of the destruction of the wars of Mars, a previous version of the followers of Baltar. Or at least people like that.)
What if leading them to Mars instead of Earth is actually how Starbuck “Brings them all to thier end.” Because it’s not the Earth we know, it’s the old earth… Mars.
Just a theory.
June 14th, 2008 at 1:13 am
Oops one more point to my theory.
If the people on the earth as we know it today are peace loving people like the followers of Baltar, and the 12 cylon models show up. It could be a repeat of Kobol and the 12 lords thereof and the beginning of our ancient polytheistic belief system mixed with the one god belief system. Both of which have been predominant in almost every earth culture for as long as we have records for. All of this has happened before and it will happen again.
The final 5 could actually be from Mars.
June 14th, 2008 at 1:28 am
WHOOOPS! My bad. I meant “EJO” not “EJA”. Sorry, Eddie.
Oh, and uh, there are a few things I picked up after reading everyone’s comments thus far, and they are:
LET”S FACE IT. WE’RE ALL CLUELESS.
RDM KNOWS HOW TO SERIOUSLY FRAK WITH OUR MINDS.
HERA HAS GOT TO BE THE CREEPIEST CHILD THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN.
EDDIE OLMOS DESERVES A FRAKKIN’ EMMY.
BALTAR HAS A JESUS COMPLEX. (duh!)
SAUL. TIGH. ROCKS.
D’ANNA & TORY BOTH WIN THE BITCH OF THE UNIVERSE AWARD.
MATT & NAT WILL HAVE SOME VERY INSIGHTFUL COMMENTARY ON THIS EP. (taa-daa!)
WE HAVE AN AGONIZINGLY LOOOOONG WAIT BEFORE WE GET SOME FRAKKIN’ ANSWERS!!!!
DUDE. WHAT’S THE DEAL WITH EARTH?
End of line.
June 14th, 2008 at 2:19 am
Cough Cough…see my posting back under the BSGcast top 10 list shot in Vegas… under my screen name bishomti… to read my theory on what is happening on the show….Cough Cough….
Now that you’ve reviewed my Theory…published on BSGCast a month or two ago…I’ve got something to add…
A/ The Final five are from earth…(Confirmed) Hence my theory is semi validated.
B/ They landed in the ruins and in the back ground they are in front of the Temple of Aurora! A temple that appears to be super duper
technologically advanced architecture-wise. Oh let’s see Atlantis would have had a temple of that stature (Cough Cough…oh i’m just clearing my throte…)(Also why else would they ad that scene of Lee looking at an old pic of the “Temple of Aurora” and then we see it in ruins…)
C/ Coincidence?… the commercial that followed after they showed the post apocalyptic earth was an ad for “Stargate Atlantis” Hmmmm this will bake your noodle all weekend…I hope ….I mean I could be wrong but what if, just maybe I’m even half right…I deserve some type of honorable mention…
I could totally be off, however, it seems my theory is getting more verification than invalidation …
——————————————————————————————————————————————————
Too lazy to read my theory? don’t blame you I’m too lazy to repost it.
here is the time line of my theory however…
Cylon Colonial war goes down
Cylons and Humans call armistice…
Cylons disappear for 40 years…
a little less than 2 years in space…the Cylons find earth.
On earth they have interactions with both the Lormirians and Atlanteans
(see theory for the details on “if I were Ron Moore this is what I would write”)
Of course Cylon don’t play well in the sand box with the Lormirians and Atlanteans and
Earth is left a desolate wasteland…
(for further explanation read my Theory but what ultimately results is the
Final Five banish the 7 into space and the 7 get the bright idea to
return to the 12 colonies
June 14th, 2008 at 2:24 am
For those arguing that the final cylon must allready be on the basestar there are a number of problems with that theory
1) Why didn’t D’anna just tell them there was allready a final five cylon on the basestar and out them, that is why it would have been nice to have Anders on the basestar
2) D’anna had no compunction spacing everyone who was allready on the baseship with the possible exceptions of Roslin and Baltar who were kept separate, and maybe Helo. This does not seem like the behaviour of someone who knows the final cylon is on the baseship
Related to this is the thoery that D’anna only saw the faces of 4 of the 5, this is from the Temple Vision in Rapture where it is only the back of 4 cylons seen (has RDM commented on whether D’anna saw all 5 or not?). The problems with this are
1) The faith hybrid said “the missing three shall give you the five” if D’anna only knew the identity of 4 of the cylons wouldn’t the prophecy had been “the missing three shall give you four” or similar?
2) If I had been in the temple and I only saw four of five faces and four of them where in the colonial fleet I would make the asumption that the last one was probably there as well, as a bare minimum I would not kill anyone in the fleet
3) Even if she did only see the penultimate 4, there is still the question of why wasn’t the fifth cylon activated as well at the nebula
All the evidence therefore points to the final cylon not being in the colonial fleet which leads me to believe that if we are not going to bring in a totally new character (which we may do anyway), the final cylon will be revealed to be a character we know to be dead before they are reincarnated/resurrected at some point in the last few episodes. I suspect what will happen is that D’anna will be killed off in the next few episodes and her last words will include a line along the lines of “We killed the last cylon” or the “final cylon is dead”. There is also the fact that >99% of the colonial population has been killed by the cylons you would therefore expect that at least one of the final five cylons has been killed by the cylons.
If they do a reveal where she admits she doenst know the identity I will be “mildly annoyed” as IMO it would be poor story telling given what has led up to it this season
Moving on
For those complaining about Adamas breakdown being over the top I just viewed it as the straw that broke the camels back, given all that has happened to him over the last few years, finding that his best friend was a cylon and perhaps having to kill him was just too much. Given the post apocalypse Earth they find (Starbuck hybrid prophecy fulfilled perhaps) I would not be surprised if he has another relapse in the final few episodes
As for the past Earth or mars theory I think it is possible, but I hope it to be revealed to be a few centuries into our future as IMO it would make for more interesting storytelling
As I stated earlier Roslin is supposed to die before they enter the promised land, and she is still alive, this to me give me hopes that despite some of the fatalistic comments in interviews that there is a bleak ending, the fleeet will find a new home and start the cycle again.
June 14th, 2008 at 2:30 am
Man I still love tonights show and we get to wait till 2009 for more episodes and for those who are wondering if they really are on Earth and didn’t see a landmark, look again.. The Brooklyn bridge is there and it is in New York.
June 14th, 2008 at 2:50 am
I think the final Cylon will be God.
June 14th, 2008 at 2:57 am
It’s the Kara Show!
She came back from the dead–we saw her die. I tell you all, she is not the same Kara!!
BSG has had integrity so far, so I don’t expect any wormhole or time-travel tricks–those are just for lazy writers which the BSG writers are not! BSG is a well crafted mystery with carefully controlled clues.
The only place the story can really go now IMHO is back to Kara–All the clues lead back to her as she led them all to earth. She died and suddenly returned two-months later in a brand-new space car! You can’t just ignore that fact now that earth is a bust. Hello, so far as we know she was the last person to visit earth and would be my prime suspect for its destruction. Something a Cylon might do, destroy the 13th colony of humans, or the one angry lord of Kobol might do.
So I think the first thing we’re going to see in 2009 (uggh!) is all those folks down on radioactive earth turn to Kara and say, “Tell us about those six hours you were missing…” OR “Now what Miss destiny?”
I agree with a previous poster–Some supernatural beings (Lord’s of Kobol, Cylon God, etc.) helped Kara or cloned her and she’s just a puppet fulfilling a bad prohecy. Remember what the first four seasons told us “. . . . And they have a plan.”" She’s the lynch pin of that plan!
June 14th, 2008 at 4:09 am
Yeah, I was predicting the half-season would end this way since the beginning. I’m just glad this wasn’t the actual final episode. Can we get to the part where all the interesting stuff happens, please? Like, I’ve known the physical location that is Earth would not be significant for ages, because no matter how they played it or the discovery of it, it would be anticlimactic. Every straightforward “earth could be X” possibility has been thought of, so obviously the true nature of Earth and the reality of things would have to be far more complex. I was looking forward to there being something towards the end of the episode that would give us a big hint about things to come. You know, a real mindfrack. Instead it was 100% predictable as usual. Kind of disappointing on the whole, although the individual character scenes were good and Bear McCreary blew me away. If we didn’t have to wait 6+ months for the next 10 I wouldn’t be so disgruntled.
June 14th, 2008 at 6:42 am
after what Baltar did, I thought baltar was back on the Quorum or somthing like that. Laura forgive him after all he did in the baseship.
June 14th, 2008 at 7:02 am
frack we have to wait to long
June 14th, 2008 at 7:53 am
The last cylon is problaby on earth. its problaby not on the baseship, then D’anna problaby take him/her to the hangar to look at the viper. And the final five cant problaby resurrect so it have to be someone we just belived to be dead. lost viper or ship, someone left behind on the colonies or on New Caprica. like when helo was on Caprica, or when Kara’s viper eksploded. Then we can say every one dead we didnt see the body to, like Kendra Shaw. I don’t think she was created just for razor. and the drawing D’anna draw looks like its two women. Im not going to say every possible cylon it going to be to many.
June 14th, 2008 at 8:01 am
Some random theories on the final 10 episodes:
The cylon fleet shows ths up to earth and either finishes off most of the humans which completes Starbuck prophecy of being “the harbinger of death” or works and tries to live with them and build a new society
Before the 12 colonies were nuked, the cylons destroyed Earth to begin the apocalypse.
The head 6 or god 6 finally comes back to show along with Natalie 6. My guess is that Natalie 6 is the new cylon god.
Baltar dies! I think he will either be killed or will sacrifice himself for the word of god.
June 14th, 2008 at 8:04 am
It is DEFINITELY NOT NEW YORK CITY. If you look at the initial part of the scene on earth as they pan around, you see mountains over the water in the far background then it pans around to the city. That would be impossible in NYC. If you were actually in NYC and look at the City and then pan around you would see water…not mountains.
I am pretty confident it was San Francisco…Sirslam
June 14th, 2008 at 8:05 am
I don’t know if this was shown at the end of last week’s BSG, but in the preview shown during Doctor Who, D’Anna was on the surface of a planet that looked desolate. So, when they found Earth I kind of knew what was coming.
Now that I think about it, if they found an Earth with a civilization they would have to introduce new characters, a new society and answer a new set of questions. How would the Earthlings react to their poor, bedraggled cousins showing up? More hungry mouths to feed? And what about unemployment? See: http://tinyurl.com/yrfarr
Did anyone notice the crosses on the ground during the earth scene? More hints? More misdirection? Did the bridge look like the Brooklyn Bridge in New York or Tower Bridge in London?
Maybe someone can refresh my memory. Didn’t Roslin want to go a different way than Starbuck? Maybe this is the wrong Earth. Or is this earth, not Earth? Is the thirteenth tribe on the move? Are they looking for the twelve colonies? The Lost Tribes of Israel? Are they at this minute arriving at Caprica and someone is holding a fistful of radioactive earth and bitterly saying, “Caprica!”
If my memory serves me, this was the last episode written before the writer’s strike. So there is a three month gap before the next episode was written. Also, RDM’s staff was laid off, production halted and they were prepared to strike the sets before the strike ended. I’m wondering how much of that will show in the final ten episodes.
Finally, I really expected Baltar and a his groupies to start singing Kumbaya while holding hands during the celebration scene.
June 14th, 2008 at 8:22 am
Well it was a great eppisode. I liked the Planet of the Apes ending. I was half expecting to the statue of liberty sticking out of the ground.
June 14th, 2008 at 8:26 am
Great episode. I’m sure like Matt, Nat, and everyone waiting for the last 10 episodes will be torture. I think there was some very interesting things that occurred in this episode and questions unanswered that I have not seen posted so far.
1. As far as we know now, the peace between the rebels and galactica is for real. Did you see tigh and his pregnant six at the end? If you at peace you release your prisoners and stand side by side with your “enemies”. This becomes really interesting now because it leads to a ton of characters working out personal relationships after finding earth. Sam and Starbuck. Bill and Tigh. Tigh and Caprica 6, etc..
2. Where are the Cavils and the other models? They still are out there, right? Will they find Earth too and will there be a showdown?
3. Why did Dianna all of a sudden change the discussion (and subsequently not answer Laura’s question) regarding the five and only mentioning the four? If you noticed she looked at four of them in the hanger when she docked. To me that rules out anyone else on galactica, namely Doc Cottle, Gaeta, Duella. I don’t beleive that this means that the fifth is dead. The fifth was either already on the baseship or not in the fleet at all. Dianna is a cylon. I have to assume that her vision included all of the final five and she could recognize the fifth one. Ron Moore sait it isn’t someone in the final supper picture so unfortanately it is not Helo or Laura Roslin or Baltar. In the preview of next year a voice does say “so you are the final cylon”. That means this person is alive (or at least in spirit there). Hmm…Tom Zarek is a cylon?
4. How are some of the prophecy/Kara concepts going to happen? In some sense Kara did lead everyone to the deaths of previous generations. My theory is that she either switched with a previous life Kara Thrace or that she died when she crashed on Earth and that we are seeing an angelic version of her in a ship from a previous cycle of human/cylons.
June 14th, 2008 at 8:40 am
minor points: Go Figursky!
Lee Adama=Ricky Martin, table dancing!?!?!
one-eyed Tigh and pegleg Gaeda, avast
all those panning ensemble shots and no Racetrack, how disappointing…
major points: up until the last minute or so i thought it was all over, the series was done. that last scene was brutal.
i actually, honestly thought they were going to put Tigh out the airlock, i was horrified
and oh, the irony, they ran all that way to find…exactly what they left.
(any complaints i had about cgi quality in this series just shrivelled up and died at the sight of the Earth arrival and landing sequence)
June 14th, 2008 at 8:58 am
Wow. I was truly made speechless by this episode. At least until this morning after a rather tough night sleeping.
To see the looks on all their faces at the end. To see Adama pick up that irradiated bit of soil. The panning shot of the ruins. The hope. The loss of hope. The grief. The pain.
It was worth having eyes. Worth having ears. Worth the wonder known as television be invented. Worth it all, to see this masterpiece of a series.
And it’s not OVER yet!
What are these people going to do now? How can they go on?
The Earth they though they’d find is uninhabitable. Will they uncover the mystery of what happened there? Will they want to?
Let’s talk Earth for a moment. I am starting to think that Kara is responsible for all this. There was no report form her about climactic upheaval after her initial reconnaissance of Earth. I believe in her description of Earth, it was a paradise. Also, we didn’t see any evidence of this widespread destruction from the end of season three pan-out shot either. There is also the time dilation issue. Let’s assume Kara is who she says she is. She still didn’t mark the months between her disappearance and return as months at all, but merely hours. Similarly, the trip to get back to Earth may have taken longer in Earth-time than the colonists marked. Which would account for the apparent age of the ruins.
I think that something about Kara’s initial Earth visit caused this destruction. Whether it is accidental, or not.
June 14th, 2008 at 9:09 am
Is it possible that the beings of light are the hybrids that have evolved? The hybrids seem to know everything. Razor comes to mind. as for this episode, I do not know where to begin. The end scene of the fleet arriving sent shivers down my spine. On another note, making us wait forever for the rest of the series is cruel and unusual punishment. I almost want to threaten boycott unless they give us the rest of the series soon!
June 14th, 2008 at 9:32 am
great episode. I suspected the POTA would happen, just not midseason.
anyone ever wonder how it is that the skinjobs weren’t aware of the F5, yet, the centurions and raiders seem to have that “instinct” about them? at least to me it seemed that way.
also, what will happen once the 5th cylon comes out? maybe the 5th is the first prototype and the remaining 4 were revised models. either way, that might explain why the 5th hasn’t come out yet. maybe he or she doesn’t have the same programming that allows them to hear the music. it’ll be interesting to see what RDM pulls out of his for this one.
June 14th, 2008 at 9:52 am
I may be a little biased, but I have the feeling that the destroyed city shown at the end of the episode is some 13th Tribe version of New York City. The destroyed bridge shown right before the credits looks like the George Washington Bridge or the Brooklyn Bridge.
It just feels that way to me.
And although I am a little disappointed, the fact that RDM decided to go with a ‘Planet of teh Apes’ rendition of Earth is bold, and takes quite a pair of brass balls to do that. More power to him.
I am on the fence with those who say that this destroyed Earth is out Earth of the future. Could be. Anything is possible. The ruins don’t look so futuristic as to be unrecognizable, but it clearly is not the present.
I love the fact that the wind was taken out of everyone’s sails on Earth. Earth has been built up as a hope for a brighter future, but in reality it’s the same as the present, blown up and tainted. Staying on New Caprica would have been better.
But this has united the humans and Cylons in one aspect. They are both united in despair. If the 13th Tribe destroyed themselves in nuclear fire, in validates the Cylon position that humans are flawed and unable to exist peacably in the universe. As to other theories explaining the state of Earth, it’s too early to tell.
And the fact that I have to wait until 2009 to see the end of this saga is almost too much to bear. It almost makes me want to airlock RDM. A 6 month delay is far too long to see closure to this in any meaningful way.
Moving on, the reactions of the main cast to seeing the state of Earth? Pure gold. Edward James Olmos has become more and more emotive as this series has moved on, in the last 2 seasons especially, and I have to say, the Old Man looked PISSED. Perhaps he was angry at himself, for leading the people to what is essentially a graveyard. Or maybe he was pissed at the 13th Tribe for letting this happen.
Who knows.
June 14th, 2008 at 10:10 am
Holy frak! After not goin on the computer for the week not wanting to find spoillers that episode blew my mind! The fleet finally finds “earth” only to see it a nuclear wasteland. the 4 revealed. just WOW!! although it was exciting i have come to the biggest revelations of all: That was not earth and perhaps the final cylon nolonger exists!
Here me out ok, a wise prophecy was once said “A diing leader will lead humanity to its new home but will not live to reach it” or something among those lines.
June 14th, 2008 at 10:13 am
Michael Logan was absolutely fantastic in this episode. When Tigh tells Adama he’s a cylon – most bestest scene…
My vote for the final cylon is Baltar, for what it’s worth. The clincher for me is the fact that D’Anna listens to him over (despicable) Tory – she’s one of the revered final five and D’Anna listens to a mere human over her? Seems unlikely to me. (Also quite the slap in Tory’s face if so)
June 14th, 2008 at 10:27 am
The first part of the episode was fantastic. But everything after the ‘roll a 6′ bit felt… unnatural. Dare I say it; it seemed rushed. This in the shadow of the four fantastic seasons before it, and it’s only a minor thing, but this was supposed to be the apex of the story! Finding Earth was the goal from day one – so now what?! I really hope RDM can pull it out of the hat and give us an amazing final 10 episodes that will answer all of the major questions, including the huge one he just asked in the last minute of the episode.
So, what happened to Earth?
Theory 1: That isn’t Earth. Sure, it looks a lot like it, but it doesn’t match Starbuck’s idyllic descriptions, and certainly doesn’t meet anyone’s expectations. This is another one of Roslin’s ‘road signs’ on the way to Earth left by the 13th tribe. As for the ruins? The 13th tribe have been known to leave stuff behind them – like the beacon and the temple. Perhaps they meant to stay on that planet, but then something went wrong and they had to leave again.
Theory 2: That is actually Earth. The 13th tribe settled there and then something went wrong. Maybe there was nuclear war, maybe a nuclear reactor blew up, or maybe something else happened (the apparent increase in radiation occurring sometime afterwards – like unmaintained nuclear reactors failing).
Theory 3: That is actually Earth. The other cylons got there first and nuked it, killing the descendents of the 13th tribe. By other cylons, I mean it could either be the faction lead by Cavil, or the group lead by the hybrid from Razor.
Personally I prefer the first two options, although the third is possible: given that it didn’t seem to take long for the colonial fleet to reach Earth, it’s conceivable that the cylons were just heading in that direction and came across it by chance, similarly to how they found New Caprica. I think the first option would be the most satisfying to me, only because I can’t quite believe that after 4 seasons of chasing Earth all we get is some nuclear wasteland. However the second option would be the most interesting, finding out exactly what happened, battling over what should happen next, discussing the future of the human-cylon kids, and seeing how those prophecies play out.
I had an interesting thought about the ‘dying leader’. We all know that Roslin is a leader, and she’s dying, and that the dying leader will lead the human race to Earth, etc, etc. However, I think there’s a candidate for new dying leader, so long as you stretch the definition a little. The moment D’Anna came aboard the rebel basestar, the other cylons were taking orders from her without question. And, like she said, she’s the last model 3 in the universe, with no hope of downloading. We got a hint from Tigh that perhaps cylons do age like humans, and it’s safe to assume that they would simply resurrect once their bodies gave up. But now D’Anna is mortal, the last of her kind, and she’s leading her people. That makes her a dying leader.
(Just as an added bonus fact for that theory, Roslin’s no longer the leader. She left Lee in charge.)
Woo, my first ever comment! Looking forward to Matt’s and Nat’s take on the episode!
June 14th, 2008 at 10:28 am
The final Cylon is ……
BEN!
and the Cylon God is Jacob…
June 14th, 2008 at 10:32 am
I’ve just gotta say that who ever in CIC picks the planetary landing spots needs to be replaced… why don’t they ever land on a beautiful tropical Island with a nice beach and some palm trees? It all just looks like dreary Vancouver…
~Matt
June 14th, 2008 at 10:33 am
Kirsty,
I share your theory that they may be in Mars’ or a neighboring planet’s distant past. As a matter of fact that was the first thing I thought of. They went to great lengths to not show us definable land masses like before. There was really no definable landmarks at all…after all the NYC bridges (when destroyed ) look like..well, a destroyed bridge.
For those of you that are pondering how long ago this destruction occurred or how long it takes for radiation to dissipate… Uranium has a half life of 760 MILLION years. From the looks of things, this destruction was anywhere from a few hundred to a couple of thousand years ago. Don’t look for this world to be habitable any time soon.
EJO was absolutely fantastic at his trade this episode. I genuinely forgot I was watching a show for a few moments and almost wept at the despair he was feeling. He has lost everything (except his son). He’s lost his wife, son, homeworld, countless friends, crews and ships…the list goes on and on. How much can even the strongest man take? Well, we just found out. I found that segment of the show to be the most powerful acting I’ve seen in a VERY long time. EJO should win the Emmy hands down!
Kudos to Tigh for doing just what he said he would from the onset of his “Cylonism.” He swore to be a colonial officer no matter what he was inside and he did just that by coming clean to the old man. Tigh’s actions saved the fleet! I will go on in another post…these were just some thoughts I’ve been having since last night.
June 14th, 2008 at 10:44 am
My guess:
That is not Earth, but Terra, an old splinter-colony of the 13th tribe. In the original Series, Terra was also at first mistaken for Earth. Due to a war between Eastern Alliance and Terran Nationalists, Terra is now this waste land we’ve in the end of Revelations. Doesn’t necessarily mean all inhabitants are dead. So the Colonials might very well encounter the Eastern Alliance later (possibly alongside the rest of the Cylons).
June 14th, 2008 at 10:44 am
I am surprised no one has mentioned this following.
As a result of Baltar’s conversation with the Centurion it’s totally possible that
the Centurions will all conclude unanimously that they are threw taking orders from
any being in the universe with a pulse.
So Cylons and Humans hanging out on Earth in the midst of figuring out the 3 Primary Questions
anyone would have upon arrival to a Global Wasteland.
A: How long ago did the cataclysm happen? (ow long till it’s safe to plant crops etc and so on.)
B: Are there any survivors. (it would be helpful)
C: What were the events that lead up to the global cataclysm (well the 13th tribe and all you know)
…hot on their tails are base ships filled with angry Centurions cleaning blood off of everything and leaving a trail of Cavils’, Simons’ and Dorals’ behind them….
The final show down will be between Organic beings and the Centurions…kind of like the original series…
(and you know what Rosalin is thinking…”Frak how am I going to grow any Pot down here?”)
(My picks for who the final Cylon is…
*Starbuck’s Father* (I”m heavily leaning on this one because of a conversation I had with someone that has read the Caprica pilot script on a plane last weekend and trust me if you knew who that person was you’d take this statement very seriously.)
*Ellen Tigh*
*No one we have met yet*
June 14th, 2008 at 10:50 am
Great episode…
…but I expected more “revelations”. We knew the 4 Cylons before…and I also didn’t expect Earth to be the paradise which Kara
discribed after her 2 month absence. So what’s the big revelation here?
This Earth sucks as much as New Caprica did. What will the fleet do next? Search for an alternate Earth. Settle down on this frakking Planet with high radiation? Hope not.
I believe that Kara is lead by a higher power (only her viper can get the magic signal).
And (I repeat myself here) this higher power will be Kara’s father. He is either the 5th cylon or a kind of Cylon god.
He pulls the strings in the background.
This sounds quite unbelievable but please remember my post when we see the new episodes in 2009 – can’twait
Now to some great acting:
That bitchy Tory was great! And you get the impression that Rekha Sharma really enjoys beeing a villain.
Always good: Lucy Lawless.
Does Michael Hogan finally accepts to play a cylon? He was soooo good.
So what we gonna do now in that frakkin’ time without BSG??????
Hope we get some Eick video blogs to fill that emptiness.
ciao
June 14th, 2008 at 11:01 am
They are on earth. The coordinates match the star patterns from the temple of Athena.
However, the most important question is what time period is it? and how many planets are in
this solar system? When I say time period I mean how old is the Sun aka Sol relative to the Big Bang. the event that created the universe?
if we’ve got 9 then it’s business as usual and Mars is not an “M” Class Planet.
if we’ve got 10 then it’s a little more complicated because this means that they are probably on Mars after Titan was blown apart by a moving very fast astral body. (However that raises questions about how mars will still have an atmosphere.)
if we’ve got 11 then its a little easier to figure out. They are on Titan and their actions that play out result in blowing the planet into the Asteroid belt of our solar system. Thus stripping away Mars’s atmosphere and leaving only on planet left in the solar system habitable.
June 14th, 2008 at 11:05 am
p.s.
@ bishomti
I haven’t read the script for Caprica but I also believe in Kara’s father a the prime suspect of beeing the 5th cylon (or cylon god).
I said that in my very first post on BSGcast on May 19th (comments for “Guess whats commig….”).
Reasons:
A) Nothing in that show is without a deeper meaning. Back on Caprica where Starbuck and Helo took a break in Kara’s old appartment
we not just saw the mandala on the wall for the 1st time we also heard some music and learned about Kara’s father (piano player and composer).
BTW- that is still one of my favorite scenes of all BSG!!!!
B) M. Ausiello of TVGuide asked Katee Sackhoff in an interview about Kara meeting a person who plays piano and she is drawn to him..
Who else than her father sould it be?!
Why do we have to wait for soooooooooooooo long te see the rest of the show?
June 14th, 2008 at 11:09 am
Holy frak! After not goin on the computer for the week not wanting to find spoillers that episode blew my mind! The fleet finally finds “earth” only to see it a nuclear wasteland. the 4 revealed. just WOW!! although it was exciting i have come to the biggest revelations of all: That was not earth and perhaps the final cylon nolonger exists!
Hear me out ok, a wise prophecy was once said “A diing leader will lead humanity to its new home but will not live to reach it” or something among those lines. Well if that is earth then roslin should be dead right? So im thinnkin mabye its not earth n mabye a futuristic colony.
Also remember”All of this has happened before and all of this will happen again” perhaps “Earth” made its own version of the cylons who nuked earth and caused whats left of humanity to exodus somewhere else. Well finally the final four come out. It was interesting to see all the different reactions. tigh is partially relieved but once again seems to have turned to the bottle for comfort. Anders well…hmmm he didnt get to shw it really good. Tyrols face was pricless when they were arrested . He seemed incredibly happy and relieved not to need to hide is new identity. And then there is tory. tory tory tory…In a shockingly unshocking event Tory joins her cylon brethren mabye shes gonna lead the cylons to a radical turn of events next year. Also what happended to the cavils,dorals,simons and boomer. I mean they’re there at the start of the season but like where they all killed during the hub battle? Then theres the Adamas. Bill sure went through some rapids after tigh revealed the truth. Just seein him destroying his room and then so vulnerable on the ground just brought a down in my heart. And then when Roslin came to him the chaqnge was so evident that the love was so visible. Then theres Lee. When he had tigh in the launch tube i seriously thought that he would hand out another “jammer treatment” To be continued later
June 14th, 2008 at 11:10 am
Hear me out ok, a wise prophecy was once said “A diing leader will lead humanity to its new home but will not live to reach it” or something among those lines. Well if that is earth then roslin should be dead right? So im thinnkin mabye its not earth n mabye a futuristic colony.
Also remember”All of this has happened before and all of this will happen again” perhaps “Earth” made its own version of the cylons who nuked earth and caused whats left of humanity to exodus somewhere else. Well finally the final four come out. It was interesting to see all the different reactions. tigh is partially relieved but once again seems to have turned to the bottle for comfort. Anders well…hmmm he didnt get to shw it really good. Tyrols face was pricless when they were arrested . He seemed incredibly happy and relieved not to need to hide is new identity. And then there is tory. tory tory tory…In a shockingly unshocking event Tory joins her cylon brethren mabye shes gonna lead the cylons to a radical turn of events next year. Also what happended to the cavils,dorals,simons and boomer. I mean they’re there at the start of the season but like where they all killed during the hub battle? Then theres the Adamas. Bill sure went through some rapids after tigh revealed the truth. Just seein him destroying his room and then so vulnerable on the ground just brought a down in my heart. And then when Roslin came to him the chaqnge was so evident that the love was so visible. Then theres Lee. When he had tigh in the launch tube i seriously thought that he would hand out another “jammer treatment” To be continued later
June 14th, 2008 at 11:26 am
This ending is just one huge slap in the face for the characters. A great irony that they escape their nuked homeworlds to find the promised land and now that land is nuked. I have the feeling the fleet is going to high tail it back to kobol and this story will repeat again. The 13th tribe has probably made their way there ehile the fleet was going in the opposite direction.
June 14th, 2008 at 11:31 am
Well, first I would like to thank SCI FI for streaming this episode so I could watch it five times before I had to go into work. Yeah afternoon hours!! Secondly I am writing this without reading other posts, so I can just put up my impressions of this show.
Holy CRAP!!!
Now that being said, I thought that there were the nice touches in this episode that we’ve come to expect from BSG. One to me was showing Felix back in the CIC, complete with crutches, as he dropped something that Dee got for him. Again, just a little reinforcement that they are soooo short handed that they need everyone, ncluding the man who’s leg was just sawed off a couple of days ago. And I also thought it was nice to see Dee back, and her running the board. And it looked like she was serving as XO for Tigh.
I also thought that we got to hear so much of Leoben’s voice in this episode, though he had little on screen time. First was Kara reciting him in Adama’s quarters. How for children to strive they need their parents to die. I know, not a direct quote, sorry. But when Leoben had said this, he was speaking, or so we thought, of how for the Cylons to grow, thrive they needed humanity to die. Now, here are Adama’s “children” Kara and Lee, thriving in the absence of Bill and well, Laura. An interesting twist on Leoben’s words. Of course we heard All of this has happened before, and all of this.. no wait, edit that. All of this has happened before seems not only to be a Leoben mantra, but a D’anna one as well. Until Lee, a child of a leader of the Human race edits it to but it doesn’t have to. Not only talking about the situation at hand, but I think some forshadowing there, which I’ll talk about later.
I found the interplay between Laura and Gaius very interesting this week. The fac that he thanked her for not murdering him gave me a giggle. And then, right in that scene Tori outs herself to both of them. Laura needs to get off that basestar, or maybe stay and set up a recording device. She’s getting all kinds of info while that. Above and beyond what the hybrid knew, but about Baltar’s hand in the destruction of the twelve colonies, as well as one of he final five. I also thought it was great when Gaius volenteered to talk to D’anna and Laura’s all like, “yeah, take him.” Kinda like if he pisses her off, and she kills him, well, better him then me.
The outing of the final five, well four I thought was great. I laughed so hard when Tigh was telling Adama and Bill’s all, “I’ve known you ofr thirty years. You used to have hair!” Oh that just made me laugh. And it was a brief light moment in a dark show, and I thought it shown through brightly. But then comes the Old Man’s break down. Again, Adama has had his world tossed off it’s axis, just like with Kara and he breaks down, but this one was the straw that broke the camel’s back. And in this, with Lee coming in, you saw just how much Lee loves his Dad. Just a beautiful scene.
I thought it was great that Tigh outed Sam and Galen. It was a whole the good of the many outwieghs the good of the few moment. And you can tell from this, that he is still Colonel Tigh, and that he is willing to die so that “his” people, those on the basestar can live. As an officer of the Colonial fleet, he is willing to give up his life for humans under his command. And just as Saul, willing to take the others with him without talking to them about it first. But you could just tell that they would have understood. To the question would Lee have spaced him, as well as they others? My answer, oh hell yes.
The signal was kinda blah if you ask me. Yes, it fulfilled the Hybrid’s prophecy, and moved the plot forward. Yes, it was the Final Four giving the fleet the way to Earth, perhaps not the way we were hoping. It felt somewhat rushed, that perhaps if they had more then just this one season, they would have worked it more then they did. Like where the hell is it broadcasting from? I didn’t see much left on Earth.
Earth. I thought that this was done great. From Lee having had everyone set a course, something that an XO would have done. So still a military mind set. To Laura telling Bill she wants to see him pick up that first handful of Earth. I loved that line. And I loved that it became true. I also liked the conversation between Lee and Laura as Bill went to change, talking that Lee is still needed. Hmmm.. needed for what? His Quorum spot or for something more? She can not just boot Zarek out of office, can she? And again, Adama was giving a joke to deliver, of are you just going to sit here flapping your lips, or are we going to go find Earth. Loved it! Laughed every time. Laura giving the command to jump, and then Adama’s speech, was great. The crew’s reactions I loved. From Lee jumping up on the table, to Kara talking to Kat’s picture. Kara telling her friend that they finally made it. And the two knuckle draggers kissing, pilots including hot dog, the tillium ship workers, Gaius’ followers, I loved it. It was like slices of the fleet that we’ve seen so low, and now we see them so high.
Well until they landed on Earth. That visual I thought was great, of Bill picking up that handful of earth, and the geiger counter going off the scale, and him throwing it down, as if something so dirty. And the way Laura spat out the word “Earth”, as a curse. And I loved the fact that the major characters were all on the planet. It made me think that if Felix hadn’t have lost his leg, he would have been down there too. And all that just ran through my mind was “All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again.”
Could it be that this was a warning from Earth, from the Final Five? Did Earth once upon a time have humans and cylon like beings living together, and as Gaius pointed out to the Centurion, using one as a slave race and then the slaves revolted? Is this always what happens when two races do not decide to do it differently this time?? And are the final five the only survives of the Earth war, or are we going to see where the survivors of Earth have gone to? And who is the last of the Final Five? Could that person be with the survivors of Earth?? And we still do not know the secret of the opera house. Is it a place to cross over, to ascend to another plane of being?? Why do we have to wait?????? I don’t wanna!!!!!!! I wanna know who is the last Cylon and what happens next. Could it be Cain, Shaw, Kat, Billy???? Who?!?!?!?!
Over all I liked this episode and the front half of the final season. The only real complaint I have is that it feels rushed. I know that they are trying to give us everything, but I wish they had more time to develop the storylines.
I am sorry for the length of this post, hope I don’t make you all nuts.
June 14th, 2008 at 11:36 am
I haven’t read all the post but any else think that time travel is going to play a part of it? When I think of head six and head baltar Donnie Darko comes to mind. Maybe the head characters are from the future trying to change the course. I believe that the nuked Earth is a version when the humans killed the rebel cylons with roslyn and pilots. They would have made it to Earth and settled in. Later the other cylons arrived and nuked them. Maybe in this time line with the rebel cylon’s help they can fight back.
-Tyler
June 14th, 2008 at 11:55 am
What year is it on earth?
It doesn’t have to be present day – my thoery always was that Earth time was hundreds of years into our future with the planet either destroyed or the population being all hybrid cylons through mixed marriages.
Let’s rewind to the mini-series when nobody saw a cylon in over 40 years and went to exist on their own planet. What planet, Earth?
Did they co-habitate for years only to destoy themselves? Were the last surviving hybrids the final five, or did they abduct humans to a cylon planet and destroy the rest of Earth when they left?
Don’t knowm
June 14th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
What year is it on Earth?
It doesn’t have to be present day – my thoery always was that Earth time was hundreds of years into our future with the planet either destroyed or the population being all hybrid cylons through mixed marriages.
Let’s rewind to the mini-series when nobody saw a cylon in over 40 years and we were told they left the colonies to live on their own planet. What planet, Earth?
Did they co-habitate on Earth for years only to destoy themselves? Were the last surviving hybrids the final five, or did they abduct humans to a cylon planet and destroy the rest of Earth when they left?
Don’t know.
June 14th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
Holy Frack! The dystopian hairs on my arms were standing on end. That was New York, right? When Earth came into view, I was thinking, wow, this is better than when Voyager got back to Earth, and I was wondering how the Earthlings were going to react to all this bother arriving at their doorstep, but it was Planet of the Apes! Where are all the damn dirty apes???? Maybe RDM is going to pull a Time Machine on us and there will be a subterranean population. Maybe the Morlocks will appear and say, “Who the frack are you?”
June 14th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
This episode moved me, the music was right of the bat and the finale scene was breathtaking. So if the final cylon is not in the fleet, this means it’s someone who’s dead. This leaves a few possibilities:
1 Admiral Caine
2 Kendra Shaw
3 Billy
4 Kat
5 Cally
6 Ellen
7 Zoe Graystone
8 Daniel Graystone
9 Tamara Adama
I just found this article on the net that states the identity of the hybrid in ‘Razor’.
———————————————————————————————–
The hybrid may be a hybrid only in the technical sense. The old man seems to have certainly been a man at one time, and even had a name: Daniel Graystone.”What you saw on screen was the father of the Cylons, literally,” a source tells SyFy Portal. “No one knew if we were ever going to do ['Battlestar Galactica' spinoff] ‘Caprica,’ but the backstory was there and established, and that’s exactly what the hybrid is supposed to be.”In the upcoming “Caprica” telemovie which SciFi Channel hopes to turn into a series, Graystone is a wealthy inventor who lays the groundwork for what becomes the Cylons. Graystone befriends a young father, Joseph Adama, following a terrorist attack that kills Graystone’s daughter as well as Adama’s wife and daughter. Adama is left to care for his son, William, as a single father.So why is all of this coming up now? Apparently it has a lot to do with who might be the final Cylon at the end of the fourth and final season of “Battlestar Galactica.”
The actor who is cast as Daniel in ‘Caprica’ is Eric Schultz, me like:-)
June 14th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
Okay, so we all agree, it’s a bridge at the end and it may or may not be earth and for sure that it is WAY TOO FRAKKING LONG until next season!!!! So here’s a new theory, the crew of the battlestar goes to another city and finds that the Earth was destroyed by a bunch of Cub Scouts and a Bearded Lorne Green
June 14th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
Why does it ALWAYS have to be New York?!? Wait a minute, does this coincide with Disaster Movie coming out in August?
I would have just LOVED to have seen Charlton Heston ride up on a horse and say, “Finally, really did it! YOU MANIACS! YOU BLEW IT UP!! DAMN YOU! GOD DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!!!” Ohh well. The long wait till 2009 is on!
June 14th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
Earth in ruins!!! I enjoyed this episode loads but in gutted the way it ended and we will have to wait ages to see the next one.
I have a suspicion that the attack on the 12 colonies is on a parellel with earth. I think that the final five are the cylons that evolved from earth. The people of earth created there version of cyclon. They rebelled, took human form and blew the crap out of the poor earthlings. Im sure that fits with the ethos of “All this has happened before….”. Well that was my first thought went I watched this episode.
Can’t wait for the next installment! Roll on Feb 2009!!!
June 14th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
This episode was intense! I really liked it but im kind of frustrated with the whole not knowing who the final one of the final five is :p. I personally have my money set on Rosilin. Mostly on the fact that she’s been having the visions of the Opra House with Athena and Six. Baltar is in those visions be Roslin is the only one who (that we know of) is not a cylon and still sharing the visions with the other two cylons. Also, the fact that her cancer is back and not going away could mean that it is in her programing to be the dying leader.
I did love the irony of the whole, finding earth, celebration, disappointment cause earth has been destroyed as well. That just plain blows xD
June 14th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
12 cylons… 12 crystal skulls… someone call Indy…
June 14th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
So, Earth (presumably) is radioactive. Cylons have radiation resistance. Human/cylon decendants become the next generation who can tolerate the planet……
June 14th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
OOH – and rewatching the final scene, D’Anna is seriously non-plussed about the dead planet, but she stares at Adama/Roslin like “Why didn;t you tell me this was how it was going to be?”
I’ll try and keep my posts together, just as soon as I stop shaking from the Galacticasm.
June 14th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
After last night’s episode, there’s a new question arising on the boards: how can the final cylon be so significant as to be at all relevant in the story.
I think I have come up with a theory I believe in, for now. I think we’ve seen the final cylon in one of the episodes, and … it… has actually been an integral part of the story since the mini.
And I think you already know whom I’m talking about.
The Cylon God – Deus Ex Machina.
My theory is that the cylons somehow created a deity. It’s the same entity we saw in Razor (or maybe another version of it). We don’t really know how it happened, only that at some point almost at the end of the first war, the cylons created their Deus ex machina. Maybe it lived for many years cared for by the guardians, and when it finally moved into the space between life and death, it achieved its full supernatural power to control space and time. Maybe it caused the scriptures to be written in a certain way, maybe it created the skinjobs at the appropriate point in space and time. Maybe it put Saul Tigh and the rest of the skinjobs in their places and arranged for the nuking of the colonies. For all we know, maybe it arranged for the nuking of Earth itself!
Think about it for one minute: if the final cylon is a god, then we can explain everything away nicely: a wizard did it… oops, I meant the cylon god did it. Head characters, Starbuck’s resurrection, Roselin’s visions, the prophecy of the scriptures – it could all have been arranged by the cylon god.
One more thing: If the cylon god truly has power over space and time (i.e. is a real god, only created by machines), he can well have been the “jealous god” that caused the destruction of Cobol millennia ago, created the temple of the Five and maybe, just maybe, have been one of the many gods that the people of Earth have worshiped through their history.
June 14th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
Out of curiosity, just how long do we have to wait for the final episodes to air?
June 14th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
Bah… bad news on that front, Piggy. I’ve been hearing January 2009 until we hit the first new episode… from quite a few independent sources.
~Matt
June 14th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
Did I hear Roslin correctly when she gave the order to jump to Earth. She said, “Ohh God”, not Gods. Something has changed…hummm
June 14th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
January?
…bugger
June 14th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
I believe that Revelations has bombarded us with information, especially the ending, and I feel that alot of things have been revealed:
Firstly, I believe that Kara inadvertantly led to the destruction of Earth; By arriving at Earth in her viper, she may have led some unknown force right to Earth, and after returning to the fleet, Earth was destroyed by this force. This would explain Kara’s role as the Harbinger of Death.
Secondly: All this has happened before and all of it will happen again
We’ve been hearing this phrase all throughout the series, and I think I have an idea about what it means in the scheme of things. To date, we have 12 cylon models, Nicky and Hera (a male and female hybrid), and now saul and six’s pure cylon child, bringing us to 13 Cylons and a male and female hybrid. There are 13 Lords of Kobol in the Pythia Prophecy. Now I believe that the 13 Lords of Kobol is a reference to the 13 Cylons. Furthermore, Nicky and Hera are the ‘Adam and Eve’ of “Gods new generation”…explaining why Hera is the ’shape of things to come’. Now I believe that it is a possibility that by the end of the series, everyone will die with the exception of the 13 cylons, hera and nicky, and they will settle on Earth. This would make Earth the new Kobol, the 13 models are the 13 Lords of Kobol, and Hera and Nicky will breed the next generation of tribes. If this is so, and it has happened before, this leads to the ultimate truth: Pure Humanity is extinct, and they exist now only as a mix between human and cylon. How much humanity remains depends on how many times ‘all this has happened before’. For example, if humanity was destroyed once before and were repopulated on Kobol, that means that everyone in the show is half cylon, and nicky and hera are more like 75% cylon. if it all happened before twice, nicky and hera are 87.5% cylon, and so forth. What is relevant is that if the theory is true, then humanity is extinct and the only lifeforms left are cylons and mostly cylon hybrids. Furthermore, if all the characters on the show die (with the exception of the cylons), battlestar will then give illusion to the storyline of the matrix, where humanity is being kept alive, but in a machine-controlled world, functioning as slaves.
June 14th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
Paul,
I like your theory very much and have always thought that Nicky and Hera are Adam and Eve. One question for everyone, the last shot of a destroyed earth had some kind of stone structure on the shore. I remembered something just like this on Kobol in season one. Did anyone get that or am I wrong?
If that is true then the line “All this has happened before and all of it will happen again” makes perfect sense.
June 14th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
10 things to do while waiting for the second half of Battlestar Galactica.
1. Watch Day Time Soaps & repeat everything said in the style of Number 6 (Red Dress
optional).
2. Play the Soul Tight drinking game. (Every time you see Thigh drink you drink)
3. Pretend you’re a Cylon.
4. Make your very own Viper using nothing but milk cartons, glitter & sticky tape.
5. Try out your newly constructed Viper by jumping of your roof .
6. Visit your hospital after said test flight didn’t go to plan & insist on calling your Doctor, Doc Cottle.
7. In public scream out the words “JUMP”
8. Make the Cylon “woam woam” noise.
9. Watch everything that Edward James Olmos was every in!
10. Create new Battlestar Galactica show called “Battlestar Galactica on Ice”
June 14th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
I say we the people let the powers that be that we will not tolerate this long wait again. we could endure it once, bot not a second time. We need to form some kind of anti-waitingsolongthatpeoplewillforgetaboutbsgandeverythingwillberuined committee under the supervision of Nat and Matt and we should find a way to force the show to air much sooner than later. Although I am sure all of this has happened before.
June 14th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
Let me start off by saying to Ron Moore, David Eick, the entire cast and crew, and also especially Bear McCreary – thank you for all these ideas and marvels both production-wise and in their storytelling in the mini and the past 4 seasons. This is still my one and only favorite series of all time.
Onto Revelations!
The little tidbits before the big stuff:
- I believe that Cavil is still alive. I think that he did indeed download into another body and Boomer went to go find him – which explains how she disappeared so quick.
- I also believe Natalie is still alive. I don’t know if anyone’s noticed during ‘Sine Qua Non’, but, if you look carefully, when she ‘dies’, she sees a forest. I have a funny feeling that forest is the same one that I believe was back in the 1st or 2nd season when Six was talking with Doral (I think), and she was swinging on a swingset. It’s the same exact place if you look closely enough, or very much looks like it.
- I’m iffy in thinking this could be Earth. I have a more feeling of yes than no, BUT, if it IS indeed Earth, then someone try and explain how Roslin isn’t dead yet. The prophecy isn’t fulfilled as promised.
- I don’t know if anyone is thinking the same way I am, but does anyone else think that maybe the title and the last scene tie in with the actual Book of Revelations in the Bible? I think it’s a far fetched thing myself, but I find the coincidences a lil too similar in how it is.
Now, onto the theories of Earth:
1) This definitely is, for real, Earth. When I saw that last scene, it’s a definite shocker, but not in the usual way. This will literally and figuratively change everything for the characters. I think it’s a definite post-Apocalyptic world in the future, where the nations of the world literally destroyed each other over the materialistic and wanting to be in power characteristic in humanity (the very same reasons that Cylons and Humans went to war against each other: Humans because they thought they created something that was a threat to mankind and would wipe them out, and the Cylons thinking that their predecessors were flawed and needed to be wiped out; aka, a fight over who’s more dominating in the universe: AI or human). I think this will wake both sides up, in how both sides could’ve caused the other side, or even both, to be wiped out, (throughout the Cylon-Human war since the very beginning) and also on their own divisions on their respective sides (Galactica vs. Pegasus, the Cylon Civil War; Remember during Resurrection Ship during Season 2, I believe Roslin said both ships had enough firepower to destroy each other; the same goes for the Cylons.). It will be the most haunting lesson both sides will ever learn, and in that knowing, in that grieving, it will bring them together. It will show that no two races can forever be at war or even divided among themselves for long, as Earth shows that no one person, and more so even one race, can survive alone. Some will be hesitant to join together fully from both sides, and confrontations will occur, and possibly many deaths will arise from it; but with it, begins a new society. A society of Cylon-Human hybrids. Remember the inaugural sight of the Opera House in Season 1? Six always said that, in referencing to the cradle with the baby-known-to-be-Hera there, that Hera was ‘the shape of things to come’. At the same time, remember the Proto-Hybrid’s prophecy: ‘Enemies brought together by impossible longing, enemies now joined as one. The once unthinkable, yet inevitable…and then they will join in the promised land, gathered on the wings of an angel. Not an end, but a beginning.’ How does the Final Five fit into the equation, you ask? I believe they will be the ones who will seperate the people, for those thinking in the old mentality that neither side is good, while the other side believing that unity is possible. I also think that the other Cylons (Cavil, Boomer’s, and the Surgeon’s) will be also on the battlefront, but it’s once everyone is unified. I also believe that those last few minutes, where everyone was doing something, is our clue pic for 4.5, as the Last Supper pic was for 4.0. All of it reveals something about each of the characters and what looks to be what’s heading in the future. In there, I think it’s a BIG clue in how Starbuck is. It almost seems as if she’s surprised about what she found, as a little more, and she would’ve been saying, “But here’s the Temple!! Here’s where the Viper was brought in!’, etc. I have a funny feeling she’s the cause of the apocalypse there, bringing the ‘Harbringer of Death’ prophecy to fruition.
I know this might seem a lil Kumbaya to some of you, but if Moore and Eick have their ducks in a line, I know they can pull it off.
June 14th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Paul,
I think we’re pretty much thinking on the same wavelength here, haha.
June 14th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
First of all regarding it being Earth..and there being a lack of landmarks…
The USA does not make up the whole of earth! There are other landmarks than American ones. Can we not be so ethnocentric?
June 14th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
What if Starbuck’s visit to Earth took her back or forward in time? She said her Viper registered only a few hours that she was gone, but in Galactica time she was gone over 2 months.
Could she have had a glimpse into the past or future of Earth? her brand new Viper might lead us to think she went back in time before the attack on the Colonies. Maybe some force or god wanted to show everyone what has happened before and what might happen again. Apollo said in this episode to Diana “it doesn’t have to happen again, how do we go forward”
I like to think she was sent into the future and given a glimpse of a world that could be, as long as both parties put aside there differences and work to build a society of harmony and trust.
Man or cylon (doesn’t matter) have destroyed themselves here on Earth before, but they can change things forever.
June 14th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
I just had a kool thought…y’all ready this might blow your minds…or not. If the planet is “earth” what if all along the watch tower is the last piece of humanity and is broadcasting on a level that only the final five can hear. Then the reason they couldn’t hear it for the first half of season 4 is because it was running on a self recharging battery that needed to be charged to broadcast again. But the music brings up triggers for survival n thas why some sort of important event happenes every time they hear the music
June 14th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
Going back again to the whole Starbuck being the Harbinger of Death, maybe she’s not the Harbinger of Death to the Cylons as in bringing death to them after. Because Starbuck was nowhere near the Hub when it was destroyed, she was all the way back on Galactica so she had no direct involvement in it.
So here’s a thought, when Starbuck returned to Galactica the first time she found Earth, she explained how she smelled the air saw the blue sky & felt the earth. But when we finely find Earth & its destroyed Starbuck looks shocked, thinking “what the hell happened this is not how I remembered it!”.
Did something follow Starbuck to Earth & did it need her to find Earth.. But could this unknown force be the 5fth Cylon? Because D’Anna said the 5fth is not in the fleet. So is the 5fth dead or alive? D’Anna was very upset when she had that vision of the Final 5, apologizing to one saying how sorry she was.
So was thinking when Starbuck disappeared back in the Nebula maybe she really did see a Cylon Raider & on that Raider was the 5fth & it used Starbuck to find Earth & then destroyed for some unknown reason killing every1 on the planet therefore making Starbuck the Harbinger of Death. J
It was long winded but I got there at the in J.
June 14th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
Hi there, long time lurker, first time poster…
Last night’s episode left my brain buzzing for sure. I guess I half expected the Bombed-Out Earth ending, but the scene where Adama scoops up a handful of earth and the geiger counter comes into frame, and Roslin’s sorrowful “Earth…”, was one of the most haunting scenes I’ve ever seen in a sci-fi show.
So the question is, “where will they go now?”. How long ago Earth was nuked? How long until the radiation decays enough for permanent settlement to be safe? We can’t know for sure, but I’m guessing the fleet won’t be able to stay there. So if Earth is frakked, and the 12 Colonies are all wasted, then there are only two “sure” paths to take. Go back to New Caprica – which isn’t likely, given the bad blood and psychological trauma associated with that planet – or go to the only other known, green, planet.
Kobol.
And that’s when it hit me, this afternoon as I was driving home from the store (because my brain seems to work best when I drive for some reason
). This may just be product of an over-active imagination, but… could it be that the Galactica universe is not like our own at all, and that time is a perfect loop?
All this time we’ve been hearing, “all of this has happened before, all of this will happen again”, and most people (myself included) have taken that to mean that history repeats itself. That is to say, that the Galactica universe is basically our universe (future or past), and time moves in a straight line. Up to this point, I’ve assumed that something like the cylon war happened on Earth thousands of years before (in our future), and then the Earth survivors and cylons moved to Kobol. And then Kobol flourished, and then another cylon war, then the kobol tribes fled to Earth and the 12 Colonies. Basically, I assumed that the same types of events kept happening to different civilizations, over and over again, different but the similar, in a straight line.
But just because people in the Galactica universe *feels* like our universe, doesn’t mean that it is. What if Galactica time is a mobius band, and the past is *literally* the future. What if everything happening on this show has literally happened before, and can only keep happening over and over. As frakked up as this sounds, let’s assume something for a minute. What if the Galactica characters are there own ancestors? I’m not talking about time travel here, because that’s a pretty lazy device. I’m talking about a circular timeline in a strange universe.
The old-school cylons are created by man. They rebel, have the first cylon war, and then leave the colonies after the treaty (presumably to the Cylon homeworld, wherever that might be). The cylons go off, engineer the skinjobs (perhaps under the leadership of the old hybrid? I’m only guessing this part, since his role is not exactly clear yet). The skinjobs, shiny new centurions and raiders attack the colonies. Galactica RTF and Pegasus survive. Galactica discovers Kobol, sees that it’s still liveable, but can’t stay because the Cylons have also found it.
Meanwhile, the Cylons have one little problem… they can’t find the 13th tribe, Earth. And they need to find it so that the destruction of humanity can be complete. Somehow, this is where Kara’s doomsday prophecy comes in. She is the harbinger of death for Earth, because the Cylons (their secret hierarchy?) have somehow made her part of their plan, and can track her. This part of my hypothesis is also a bit murky since we don’t know Kara’s real destiny yet, but I’m guessing that part of the Cylon fleet (the hierarchy, old school Cylons/hybrid?) followed Kara to Earth and then nuked it. Perhaps the Significant Seven didn’t even know about this, I’m not sure. My guess is that the original aim of the Cylon hierarchy was to destroy all 13 colonies, Earth included. Kill off the human “parents” so that the cylon “children” can reach their full potential.
And that leads us back to the beginning. Not a new beginning, but the *original* beginning. Devastated by their grim discovery at Earth, the Quorum, Rebel Cylons and Galactica fleet decide that the only place to go is Kobol. It was green and healthy the last time they saw it, and is the only option. Because really, can they afford to send out expeditions to find new planets at this point? Not with morale running dangerously low. So the RTF heads back whence it came, has some kind of apocalyptic showdown with Cavil’s fleet, and the survivors settle on Kobol.
Somehow, the surviving Cylon models and influential humans become the 12 Lords of Kobol.
What if Apollo really is “Apollo”? What if Athena really is the basis for “Athena”? What if Kara is “Aurora”, Adama is “Zeus”, Six is “Aphrodite”, D’Anna is “Diana”, Baltar is “Dionysus”, etc.? They all seem like likely leaders given the way things are shaping up. And of course, Roslin dies on the way back to Kobol, which is the new Promised Land, so the prophecy is fulfilled.
And the secret of the Opera House is… that it is the end, as well as the beginning. And as the centuries pass, and the 13 tribes start to take shape, the radiation of the 12 colonies and Earth fade away just in time for the 13 tribes to leave Kobol. The 13th tribe is us, and we get to live our history over again until Kara brings us armageddon.
I’m not sure where Hera and Nicky fit into this, but this is still kind of a half-baked hypothesis I suppose…
Sorry for the long post.
PS– 2009! Just… why? Arg!
June 14th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
Earth is a Lie!
June 14th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
i can not belive they didnt give us thr full ending FRACK!!!!!!!!!!!!! but if its true that ther is a season 4.3 i hope it can explane what the is going on !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but it could be posble that ther not on earth it could be KOBOL has any1 has thought about that and also ther must b a season 4.3 beacuse sum of the proase has not come yet like
- kara the happernjer of death
- the dieing leader
- fenal 1
- and much more much more liek what the frack is going on ???????????????????????????
i hate R.D MOORE season 4 is coming out like will the big wait for season 4 tipical hey
SEASOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN 44444444444444444444444444444444444
444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444 44444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
but it was a good episode in all esapcail the ADAMA’s and c ing the fleet in that big seen and did any1 think tha ROSLIN was a HEAD ROSLIN when she got back on GALATICA
June 14th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
Like Toth, i’ve always read the comments and enjoyed the bsgcast, but now i gotta comment…
First off, we don’t know for sure if this is Earth where they landed. I for sure couldn’t really see geographical similarities in the short orbital shot on earth, and I didn’t see the moon ( which should bee clearly visible from an earth point of view ).
So here’s my take on what the BSG Universe functions like:
Theres one Earth for sure, but additional to that, theres 2 times Kobol and 2 Times 12 Colonies. In the first season they said something about that Nebular on the other end of the Galaxy where they were going, so they went all the way through the whole Galaxy to get to “Earth”.
After travelling that far they find a deserted, nuked place and simply go for the nearest habitable planet to colonise it, afterwards colonising the 12 nearest habitable Planets ( which is the migration from Kobol to the 12 Kolonies ), while a thirteenth tribe goes off to the Kobol we know from the Series due to some internal conflict. They still have all this religious bogus so history blurs, on the original Kobol they start colonising, spreading over 12 kolonies and eventually their thirteenth tribe goes back to where tehy originated from ( “earth” in their mythologie ). The thirteenth tribe finds a deserted and nuked place, builds up and gets nuked again, the 12 kolonies get nuked and the colonists flee to where the thirteenth tribe went and so on.
Well, sorry for my messed up theories and my bad spelling ( coming from Germany ^^ ) but i just had to get this off my fingers
June 14th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
Life here began out there. Well, life began on Earth, and sometime into the future, our future, some lucky bastards left before the human race blew itself up and they colonized Kobol. Another war broke out on Kobol and yet another bunch managed to escape the destruction and colonized 12 new worlds. We all know the rest. Now humanity is back were it all started (or ended). Or maybe in the next episode will see someone waking up in a sweat and say: “Thank Gods it was only dream!”
June 14th, 2008 at 8:17 pm
Well, sorry if this sounds catty — but suck it up, folks. Perhaps it comes from watching a lot of British television drama (where you seldom see a twenty episode season in SF drama) but it’s not the end of the world. There’s a natural break here — and one hell of a cliffhanger, which is saying a LOT for this show –, and would you rather have the back ten right now or done right?
June 14th, 2008 at 8:29 pm
Just an interesting thing I noticed about this episode is did anyone else the the ruins looked like New York. The “bridge” ruins you see right before the scene cuts to me resembles the Brooklyn bridge and the river below it could be the Hudson.
June 14th, 2008 at 8:36 pm
Well, we waited over a year for the *first* ten and they weren’t all done right, so I’m willing to throw caution to the wind and ask for the last 10 right now.
Post-apocalyptic Earth. *yawn* What a blatantly obvious statement. Guess they have to keep earning that Peabody by making “intellectual” social commentary. It’s not like ten thousand other science fiction works have painted the future of humanity as bleak and self-destructive. What ground breaking, thought provoking material! I bet all the political leaders around the world watching Battlestar Galactica last night sure learned their lessons and eliminated their nuclear stockpiles!
Come on, Ron is smarter than this. Hopefully the last ten will won’t just be one big overwrought commentary on the folly of man. Better yet, maybe the devastated planet they landed on will have some explanation other than humans wiping themselves out with nuclear warfare. Something more interesting and tied into the established story of the show, perhaps?
June 14th, 2008 at 9:24 pm
Craig Ranapia, I agree that we should not get too whiny about season 4.
Damn, this is the best sci-fi show of all time (maybe any genre) so why try to knock it down for no good reason. I think we are so spoiled with the quality of BSG that we sometimes become forgetful how amazing of a show it is.
The truth is that Ron Moore is always ahead of everyone. The final 10 shows should rock. I loved the first 10, and part of me is glad that the last 10 wont air until 2009, its like the show has been extended and we get to blog and talk about it until we are blue in the face.
Jump!
June 14th, 2008 at 9:33 pm
Loved revelations. Saul Tigh has got a pair on him. I hope he is one of the final survivors of the show.
Yes, it is earth. Gaeta said that the stars matched up perfectly. This is how the colonials knew they had found Earth. But what gets me is what activated the final 4 cylons? And then comunicated with them again? Also how come they can not remember crap? I don’t think it was the ship is what is communicating with them thou. But maybe the Cylon God?
Here are a couple of thoughts. 1)THere will be a final battle. But notice how it is partly based or sides will probably be based on religous beliefs. The Colonials and Cylons who believe in a God and the Cylons and maybe some colonials who do not believe in God. Could this be Lee Adama stepping away again from his father’s shadow in defiance to his father’s religous beliefs and joining forces with the atheist cylons?
Also I am willing to bet that whoever Tigh has his gun drawn on in the promo for nest season is the final cylon!
Also, maybe the colonial scriptures are true and man is destined to repeat himself. Maybe it all begain with Earth. They left and colonized the other planets. Had a war with the cylons. Searched for Earth, found it but was destroyed. Those coloniest repopulated Earth and then left to colonize the 12 colonies again? Who then were destroyed by the cylons. They left the colonies to search for Earth and the cycle repeats itself again.
Could Kara and Baltar be the final leaders. One a devil(Kara) and the other a saint (Baltar)?
One last thought. Deanna was pretty insistant that there were only 4 cylons in the fleet. That means one was already on the basestar and they made contact or was no longer with the living. I am willing to bet the later is not true. Because that person would need to be reserected and all cylons would know who that person was. So, as others have stated. The 5th was on the basestar already.
Or Deana is scared of what maybe the final cylon is or will bring?
June 14th, 2008 at 9:37 pm
I have a few things to add to this discussion that I don’t think I spotted in any previous posts.
1) When they are on Earth at the end of the episode, you can see that one of the buildings once had a circular dome shape to it. This building gets a lot of screen time as they pan up and toward the destroyed bridge. Okay, now go back toward the beginning of this episode just after the credits. Lee opens the book, flips to the middle of it where the bookmark is, and they zoom in on it. Freeze your playback when the book is open. See the circular dome shaped building in the middle? See the bridges to the lower right of the dome-shaped building? They refer to this drawing as the Temple of Aurora on Earth. Seems like the writers are really trying to make it clear that this is the same Earth that is written about in the book.
2) All camera shots of Earth in BSG from space have clouds obscuring the land below them. I went to nasa.gov and checked out their photos of Earth. Yes, I’m sure they don’t put a lot of the “cloudy pics” on their website on purpose, but check out how much cloud cover there is in their photos. There are a ton more clouds covering Earth in the BSG episode than in real life. You can almost see some land mass in one corner of one of the shots, but it just-so-happens to be dark there because of the position of the sun. They are not letting us see the shape of the land on purpose. (In case anyone has cloud cover confused with the theory of “nuclear winter”, they are not the same. Nuclear winter involves tons of dirt/dust getting blown up into the atmosphere. It wouldn’t be white clouds.)
3) Now tie these two things together. They make a whole scene at the beginning of the episode to make sure we know that this is the planet described in the book (Lee’s touching story was just to allow them to discuss and view the book), yet they don’t show us any Earth-type landmasses. If we’re supposed to believe that this is the Earth they were looking for (the scene with the drawing in the book and the ruins point to this), then why hold back on some more evidence of this? Because the writers wanted a nice shock from the “hurray we found Earth” cheering to the “crap is radioactive” scene, wouldn’t have showing some Earth-like landmasses have helped bring that emotional high even higher? There must be a reason why were weren’t allowed to see the shape of any of the continents.
4) If Starbuck’s viper is picking up this signal, then I hope we see them use the viper to pinpoint what on Earth is transmitting the signal. If they say that Earth itself was transmitting the signal, then we have a problem because now we will have crossed into the realm of magic/bad writing.
Matt/Nat: you guys do a good job with the podcast, so I hope we see you before BSG is back on air.
June 14th, 2008 at 9:38 pm
Another great show for me that had me on the edge of my seat for much of the last half. I know a lot of people are less than impressed the show threw an “obvious curveball” and went for a Planet Of The Apes vibe, but you know what… I think we need to back off. No matter what twist we got when the arrived at earth it was bound to be “obvious” simply because the show has ben amazing enough to get the whole community talking and speculating on what might happen when they reached earth since the very first series.
A lot of people are of the opinion that the people left on earth have generally nuked themselves to death and that man has turned in on itself. Several people have made comments that this whole notion of a post-apocalyptic earth is stagnant and has been done to death… and to those people i just ask what made them so negative about a show which we presumably all love? Lets put aside the fact that you are presuming that from the one minute of footage we saw the whole world is destroyed and that it hasnt just been attacked by the other cyclons… ad put aside the fact that you are presuming that the earth they have found is totally the same as that one patch they have arrived on… and that this is the right earth and that this has been caused by mans own folly…
Lets look past what is being speculated and look at what the speculation shows. it shows that you have presumed the worst. You have guessed a message that you think is being expressed, a message you find dull or obvious or whatever and you are presuming that it is the case. Why the negativity? Why the pessimism?
I personally loved the ending to the show simply because everybody worked together and solved a problem without bloodshed (apart from that hostage, but eh…) It was a refreshing sequence to see all the characters getting to express joy for once and the scenes with the main actors were each very touching. Just looking back at where these characters have come from and what they ave developed into is a huge statement into the cretivity and writing of the whole team. I think we just need to stop watching this show as though we were grading it and actually just enjoy it.
The fact is that any conclusion to the race to earth would have been greated with cries of “obvious” and why does this have to be a social commentary and not just a good story? Regardless how this turns out the overiding “social commentary” from Ron Moore is that everybody should learn to understand their true selves and learn to understand everybody else. BSG has been a vehicle to carry a multitude of political and ethical notions but the one true binding force is the idea of belonging and of co-existance. The very idea of Earth has always been of a home… a place where everybody can live with peace and love and all that happy stuff. “Earth” was never about the rock they wer looking for… it was about a place they could accept themselves for who they were and i am sure in the next ten episodes that concept will be the final statement from the makers of the show.
I for one would welcome a return of the small minisodes we got on New caprica. There are so many little storyies and relationships to tie up here after the fall out of this episode they would serve as an ideal format to clarify opinion and interaction.
And just to add a couple of little notes…
-I miss Head Six.
-The Centurian effects have been terrible this last couple of episodes.
-Lee grew a set.
-After D’anna said there were only 4 of the Final 5 in the fleet I agree that the last one is presumably somebody who was on the baseship when she spoke, is a dead character or one who has never been with the fleet at all.
-Every version of Eight seems hotter than the last even though they are identical. Weird.
June 14th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
There are a lot of theories about “earth” and most of them I think are just a little off the wall. Atlantis and such, come on. It is possible that it may not be earth at all. But no one has mentioned the other cylons that are still out there. I’m sure they are not planning on leaving well enough alone. Maybe they found earth first. Wanted nothing to with it and nuked the bejesus out of it. J
Just a thought
June 14th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
Kara’s the fifth.
in Six of One (13 minutes into it) she’s in the brig talking to the admiral and she is talking about how she found earth she says “I felt like I had been there before, like i never left”
“The 3 will give you the five who come from the home of the 13th”
June 14th, 2008 at 10:12 pm
Hey BSG fans, the show is far from over so why is everyone disappointed like we just saw the series finale? Plus, there will be no apes riding on horses here-the show has always been about the apocalypse so whats the deal with not liking this cliff-hanger?
Even though I always felt that Earth would end up being destroyed, it was still surprising to actually see it.
Acouple of light observations: Who or what is sending the Bob Dylan music to the final four? Could it be a continuous loop coming somewhere from the planet earth?
Maybe the final one is stuck in his or her bunker waiting to be uncovered by the final four, probably not.
June 14th, 2008 at 10:28 pm
Well that was crazy. I think that they are really at Earth, otherwise the constellations wouldn’t have matched up. The only theory I’ve heard that could explain how it might not be Earth is Kirsty’s. (They could be on Mars and the constellations would still be the same). But that seemed a little far fetched to me. I think they are on Earth
The best theory I’ve heard is BSG Addict’s: Kara caused the nuclear war when she showed up on Earth after Maelstrom. That would be really interesting. Think of the guilt she would feel.
“Kara Thrace will lead the human race to its end” could mean that Kara will lead the fleet to Earth, where they will be defeated by Cavil’s forces (?), and it could simultaneously mean that she will cause a nuclear war on Earth, causing the death of the 13th tribe (see BSG Addict’s theory for more on that).
“She is the herald of the apocalypse” seems very clear to me now. She is the herald (messenger) that told the fleet about the apocalypse (by leading them to it).
“[she is] the Harbinger of death” could mean the same thing. According to dictionary.com, a harbinger is “a person who goes ahead and makes known the approach of another; herald.” So she could be the harbinger of the death that happened on Earth because she made known the approach of Earth. (Or the fleet’s approach to it, anyway).
“They must not follow her” also seems clear. They shouldn’t follow her to Earth because there is nothing for them on Earth. It’s a wasteland, just like New Caprica and the 12 Colonies, and they won’t benefit from going there.
At first, after the episode, I thought “now what?” They have made it to where they are going, and it sucked. But there are some things the fleet needs to do in the second half of the season:
Defeat Cavil’s forces, or join them.
Find out where the frak they are going to live.
Find the truth of the opera house.
Find the final fifth.
Find where the signal was coming from.
I JUST HAD A THOUGHT. Ok, so a recent theme for the series seems to be that death is not necessarily a bad thing. The most obvious example of this is what Natalie told the humans about it before they destroyed the hub. Also, in Maelstrom, Head Leoben says things like “death can be a beautiful thing when you face it,” and “you confused the messenger with the message. Your mom was trying to teach you something else.” (meaning Kara confused her mom’s cruel words with her mom’s death, which was the message) Also, the way that Kira…erm…Emily’s death was shown was very beautiful. She went to a better place. Could it be that Earth’s inhabitants all crossed the river/”place-between-life-and-death” when Earth was nuked? That would also cast a positive light on Kara’s destiny. Instead of bringing death (which is a good thing) to the cylons by destroying the hub, she brought it to the 13th tribe by showing up after flying into the maelstrom. Is that too crazy? Basically I’m saying that the fleet could possibly find out that the Earth Apocalypse is not a bad thing.
June 14th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
IT IS NEW YORK. Here is my evidence towards that conclusion.
First, here is the bridge at the end of Revelations: http://img119.imageshack.us/my.php?image=youtubegalacticabridgeor0.jpg
Second, here is the Brooklyn Bridge: http://img119.imageshack.us/my.php?image=familyvacationsbrooklynwz8.jpg
Third, here is the angle I believe it to be shot from: http://img518.imageshack.us/my.php?image=explanationgl9.jpg
Totally, undeniably.
June 14th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
Another thing to remember is back in Kobals last Gleaming, the tale of the dying leader says that
“the leader would not live to enter the promised land”
As Roslin did not accept the post of President back from Apollo, then he still technically is the President of the Colonies and as such, will IMHO be the leader that does not live to enter the promised land. Very much like Moses!! I believe Apollo will die before the end of the series.
June 14th, 2008 at 11:13 pm
“I loved the first 10, and part of me is glad that the last 10 wont air until 2009, its like the show has been extended and we get to blog and talk about it until we are blue in the face.”
There’s not a lot to talk about though. Revelations really could have taken things to a whole new level, even if it was something as simple as hinting at what’s to come regarding the many mysteries we’ve been following. The way it ended there’s really not much to discuss but A) whether or not it was really Earth and B) how it was destroyed. The show has basically provided those two answers though. I wish we had been given something totally crazy that would have kept us talking for the next 6+ months.
“No matter what twist we got when the arrived at earth it was bound to be “obvious” simply because the show has ben amazing enough to get the whole community talking and speculating on what might happen when they reached earth since the very first series.”
Not necessarily. With some very creative and innovative writing Earth could have been something incredible that nobody (or very few) thought of. Some guy in last week’s thread brought up some interesting possibilities about Earth being a separate reality. I’m still holding out for the “real” Earth being something better. Obviously with Earth the way it is, there is something much more interesting in store. I’m just a little irked by the fact that this episode didn’t take things farther than they did and the contrived political/social message at the end.
June 15th, 2008 at 12:45 am
I’m shocked. Totally and completely shocked.
124 comments and no one, not one person noticed it? All the speculation, theories, and ideas bandied about; people saying there weren’t any recognizable landmarks in the episode. I watch the show with my family and when they got to “Earth” we all knew it was going to be a wasteland. It was obvious, with ten episodes to go there is no way they’d give us a pristine nice earth at this point; it limits the story options.
But as they panned over the wasteland, they came upon a structure and we all gasped and started yammering like fools.
“Woah, it’s Adama’s house!” I yelled out.
Yes, Adama’s house. *THE* Adama. The original 1978 series Lorne Greene Adama. Go back, watch it again, you’ll see. They didn’t get to Earth, they got to the old original Caprica! Original Caprica, destroyed in the holocaust by the original Cylons, who were descended from lizards, and aided by the original Baltar.
“all this has happened before, it will happen again…” Isn’t that what the Hybrid keeps saying? It seems that whether they build them themselves or they are built by another race, as is the case of the original BSG Cylons, humanity seems destined at some point to be nearly wiped out by a mechanical race known as the Cylons.
June 15th, 2008 at 1:40 am
Great Mid-Season finale. Music was great as always. Quite beautiful. Wow. 125 comments in 2 days. Good job!
You know after the part with the truce between the cylons and the humans, everything just went all happy. From the hanger to Adama’s quraters, to the CIC, everyone just seemed very happy and forgiving of everything. Then with the awsome music with the ships going down to the planet. I was like, no no no no no, something doesnt seem right. This is way to much of a happy ending for this to be a mid season finale. For a second, I thought a beam weapon or something was going to start taking out each shuttle.
In the scene with Adama and Lee talking, I thought that when Laura walked in she was a “head Laura”. It looked like Lee didn’t notice her until she talked to him. I was like DUDE. Adama sees a “head” character!!.At least to me, Lee looked confused when Adama and Laura were talking about going to Earth. Then she talked to him and I was like AHHHH! On the same scene, I couldnt stop lauphing on how fast Adama put on his uniform.
Other than the fact that there was probably radiation all around, the place they landed didn’t seem that bad. Nice cloud coverage
(NO SUN!!!), seems like a nice 55-60F degree weather, buildings for them to live (granted mostly destroyed), good by the sea location. Sounds like paradise, minus that pesky radiation.
I know its probably been said, but I must say it too, being that I am a HUGE Planet of the Apes fan:
“YOU MANIACS! YOU BLEW IT UP. GOD DAMN YOU. GOD DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!!!!”
June 15th, 2008 at 2:00 am
WOW, what an SUPERB, emotional episode.
Right off the bat i started to notice several things that interested me, such as:
With D’anna saying that the final cylon is not n the human fleet, i imediatley remembered the Caprica Six/Tigh Baby and how it was concieved by a final five and a significant seven (6), this made me wonder: “Helo is not in the human fleet at that point and the introduction of a cross breed cylon i think may be used as evidence that he can infact be the final cylon and this third baby way only be a writers tool to allow Helo’s true nature to be credible…
Also the old school suspects such as Laura and Baltar were on the Baseship. Maybe the writers want us to amount as much evidence AGAINST Baltar being a cylon that it’s a double blow if he turns out to be the final cylon.
This Higher power who wants the humans to find earth seems more and more like the Cylon God, or now just “God”. At first i thought “Oh, the Cylon God is good?!” but then when the ships landed we found that it was a waistland. Still God may be good, but according to what the writers have written, God wants them to find earth, with the cylons.
And finally i think that that is Earth but not the real Earth, that this is the “Physical Earth” but the place that they wish to go is the after life or Heaven/Utopia that aparrently according to the Dream of by Laura Roslin, contains deceased people, waiting for those that have died.
Possible people i hope to see again are:
*Natalie
*Ellen Tigh
*Adama’s Wife
*Billy (although it seems along time ago he died)
*Louanne Katraine
*Helena Cain
*Cally Tyrol
THANKS FOR CHECKING OUT MY COMMENT, AND FOR GIVING UP YOUR TIME TO READ IT. =]
June 15th, 2008 at 2:10 am
The Head characters and the Cylon/Human God remind of the Prophets from Deep Six Nine and their connection with Sisko.
June 15th, 2008 at 2:11 am
LOL, Deep Space Nine, not Deep Six Nine…I guess I had Six on my mind.
June 15th, 2008 at 2:33 am
Wow, great episode but it left me with a lot of questions. I’ve been watching BSG for around 2 years and been catching up on all the episodes I’ve missed the first two years, so I might be wrong or been informed about some stuff so correct me if I’m wrong. This is also my first BSGcast post (but been watching since mid last year, keep up the great work Matt and Nat) so it might not be that well written.
Ok, so, Deana kills of his the pilots and they seem to just forget about it. When she tells Balter that the humans will never forgive them for what they did, she’s right we shouldn’t but again and again it’s like the people on BSG forget about the past. Though, to be fair, there’s plenty to argue about when it comes to letting the harsh past go for a more bright future. I was just surprised how Lee was just like, ok, found the way to earth, and even though Deana threatened to kill a couple dozen pilots and Marines(not to mention Balter and the President) and put least one person out the air lock, he’s shared the way to earth.
This is where I got confused, ok, so Deana accepts Lees speech of peace and whatnot. So…why go to earth, if they’re at peace with the Cylons why not go back to the colonies? Is it because over there the civil war of the Cylons is still on and it’s too dangerous? Or the colonies are still in radiation and humans can’t live there without the radiation meds? The whole point of Earth was to find a home for the people to keep them safe from the Cylons, but there in peace now. Now I mean this both ways, there one jump from Earth why not just go there, ok, Earth wasn’t what they expected so why not consider going back to the colonies again in less the issues I mentioned is a problem.
So, is the Cylon civil war still raging? Might not last too long if they can’t come back in new bodies or reproduce, not including half human or finale five kids.
Ok, this one has been bothering me for a few episodes now, Caprica Six has been barley mentioned the last couple episodes, I think the most was when Adama told tigh she was pregnant and I really didn’t like that since she was the first Cylon, who knew she was a cylon, to fall in love for a human and really care for him AND she knew what was done to humanity was wrong. After all that with Balter, they just cut off the two, she’s ON THE SHIP and they can see each other and everything, I mean they were on New Caprica together and she wouldn’t use her knowledge against Balter during his trial. After EVERYTHING the two went through, Balter just stopped visiting her and getting it on with his groupies and Caprica Six getting lonely and making Tight feel better. Maybe she’s a little too human. She’s pregnant with the child of one of the finale five, this means she’s gonna have the first fully cylon child? What’s the big difference with Tigh and the other finale five that allows them to have children with other Cylons when the Cylons themselves couldn’t have kids and had created the “farms” to make hybrids like Hera and the chiefs kid.
And when there on Earth, I guess Caprica six has been let go and is there…how long as she been free, was she in the Brig this whole time?
I wish I could have a cool and meaningful comment but really I just have lots of questions. That finale was very cool and exciting in some ways, especially when the finale 4 are revealed but that ending…Planet of the apes much. I just hope it’s the wait till 2009 will be worth it, and it wont’ be another journey to find the planet earths survivors went to after Earth was devastated by nuclear war cause that would just be too much
Oh, and when I write this much, I normally make punctuation errors and maybe some spelling, so sorry for the poor writing. If anyone actually feels like answering my questions, that would be very cool of ya and thx. P.S, Matt and Nat, I hope when the new episodes start I’ll have some better and more in depth comments. Again, keep up the great work, I come to you guys to explain whatever I might’ve not gotten or misunderstood in episodes.
Mention Caprica six a little more and WHY didn’t head Six say anything about Earth?
June 15th, 2008 at 2:58 am
test?
June 15th, 2008 at 3:00 am
whys isn’t my first comment showing? Too long?
June 15th, 2008 at 3:20 am
Ok here’s my mind blowing post I promised yesterday. Put your reading glasses on it’s practically a novella. I’m not really sure how to post pics in the comments, so I’m going to just copy and paste my original post on BSGpilots. Either A. Copy and paste the urls or B. Click the link in my name to see the pics in the original post.
After last night’s show I’m speechless. In the span of two days I found out two mind boggling facts about the show. So the Rag Tag Fleet has found Earth. Awesome plot twist!!!! So where does that leave how the show is going to end? I think I may very well have stumbled upon at least part of the answer.
“They’re Beings of Light and they have been from the start.”
Now, when I say “they” I am talking about the head people.
OK, I know some of you are probably rolling your eyes and thinking about casino planets and men running around in banana hammocks playing Triad . All I will say is; stow all the cheesy 70s trappings of the original series. Think with an open mind and ask yourself how would the new show re imagine the “War of the Gods” TOS 2 parter. You know, like they re imagined the Pegasus story.
Minds open? Good, Let’s move on.
In the original series there are three different incarnations of the Beings of Light. First you have the Ship of Lights and the Beings of Light group aboard the ship, about 5 or 6. Then you have count Iblis who is in fact an evil Being of Light. Finally, in the episode Experiment in Terra there is a Being of Light by the name of John who plucks Apollo out of his Viper and gives him a mission to save an Earth like planet named Terra. In the new series In the Re imagined series there are four known head people. Head Six, Head Baltar, Head Leoben, and Head Elosha. We have the Rebel Baseship where Laura encountered Elosha as well.
Basically this is what I believe:
RebelBaseship= Ship of Lights
Head Elosha=Beings of Light group
Head Six/Baltar= Count Iblis
Head Leoben= Being of Light John
I’m not gonna even Frak with Head kitty. More power to anyone that figures that crap out. Maybe he is the reincarnated soul of Muphett…
With this first post I’m going to only deal with the Rebel Baseship and Head Elosha. The reason why is because I think it’s the most jaw dropping and compelling evidence that the show is still using the TOS play book. Also I still need to do some more research with Head Six/Baltar and especially Head Leoben.
Before I continue here’s a quick key for my internet shorthand:
The Original Series=TOS Re Imagined Series= RIS Beings of Light= BOL Ship of Lights = SOL
Frack I don’t understand why my comments aren’t showing. Too long. The pic urls are a problem? Maybe a spam filter or something?
If this one works just click the link in my name for the rest. Trust me you won’t regret it. I think I figured out a hudge piece to the puzzle of the show.
June 15th, 2008 at 4:12 am
Hi guys….
I have a doubt about a couple of seconds on the hanger deck….
The one giving orders, was that chief Laird?
Sorry my geekiness
Nuno
June 15th, 2008 at 5:47 am
I thought that this episode was awesome. They have really amped up the tension this season. I have no idea where they are going to go from here and who the final one may be. My questions are: 1. Is there any significance to Nicky, Tyrol’s baby, since he is in the same league as Hera, being a human/cylon hybrid? 2. Is it significant that the four revealed cylons were all part of the resistance on New Caprica and three of the four were leaders of the resistance?
Not sure I can wait a year to see how this all pans out…
June 15th, 2008 at 6:59 am
For all we know that isn’t Earth at all and just a terraformed Mars. There was no visible land-mass which I think was done on purpose. Star patterns may still match since they are a short distance away. And in the pan in of our solar system only Jupiter and Earth are shown excluding all the other planets.
June 15th, 2008 at 7:34 am
Hello, maybe they should go where starbuck went go back to that planet where she went ino the storm ,I MEAN SHE WENT THROUGH AND CAME BACK IN A NEW VIPER maybe its some kind of time tunnel or teleport maybe it will take them back so as to prevent earth from becoming wh at it was in the episode revelations a nuclear wasteland the fleet needs to follow starbuck through the storm to the otherside she is supposed to lead them to earth maybe in that new viper because it is clear they cant live on the earth at the end of the episode.
June 15th, 2008 at 8:00 am
I could not agree more with Saber about Caprica 6 we find out she is pregnant and then?, you would have also thought that given how important the cylons view procreation that Adama or Lee (if he knows) would have tried to use Caprica 6 and her pregnancy as a bargaining chip, even if they did not go down that route you would have thought they would have asked her to speak to the cylons to try to change their mind. Also Caprica 6’s child is in some ways more important than Hera as this is the first “pure” cylon child assuming that the final 5 are not programmed humans opposed to artifical ones.
On the Earth issue I will be dissapointed if this is not our Earth, but I also think that it will turn out that Earth is not the promised land since as I pointed out in an earlier post and others have since, Roslin is still alive and the prophecy of Pythia given in Kobals last gleaming states the dying leader will not enter the promised land
I have the begginings of a theory which I have yet to work the details out on that the cycle (happened before, happened again) is not simply Kobal to colonies and Earth, colonies to Earth, everyone back to Kobol, but may have a few additional steps with their being another planet before Kobol and after Earth.
Now a question for Matt and Nat, are there any plans for periodic BSGCASTS in the hiatus (perhaps one a month) to debate theories of what will happen, some possible topics are
1) Final Cylon
2) Hybrid prophecies (on this why has no one commented on the one clear prophecy from the Hub “The wingbeats of the dove drown out the heartbeats of those who follow”)
3) What we think will happen next
June 15th, 2008 at 8:16 am
So, Earth is a deserted wasteland riddled with radiation. Can’t say I DIDN’T see this coming (Though I was REALLY expecting the statue of liberty to be poking out of the snow somewhere). Now, how did Earth get this way? I fully expect some one of the Cyllons to tell us that humans are violent and this is what would have happened if they hadn’t attacked Caprica.
Here’s a theory I’ve had for a while: Personally, I always thought of the show as happening in the past (a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away if you will) and that through some series of events, the fleet becomes some of Earth’s first civilizations. If you think about it, if could make sense. The lost civilization of Atlantis was rumored to have technology far beyond anything that would be have been seen until 5000 years later (roads and aqueducts among other more supernatural ideas). Perhaps, if the fleet DOES colonize Earth, some catastrophic event occurs (like in the Atlantis myth), the fleet gets scattered across the planet, becomes devoid of any technological means, and has to repopulate the planet.
I used to think this idea made sense, but now that we’ve seen Earth as a post-apocalyptic wasteland, it makes me wonder if BSG actually IS set in the future, and they are stumbling upon Earth after we have destroyed it. Here’s another thought! What if a colony of Earthlings (perhaps us?) left their planet in search of another (Caprica anyone?) as a refuge from some earthly terror (global warming, war, etc…) and they actually passed the colonial fleet without realizing it? Just a thought, but I hope it provokes some discussion.
June 15th, 2008 at 8:30 am
That was one good episode. 45 minutes of crippling stress and ending on a massive low! Fantastic BSG!
One thing’s for certain: they can’t live on earth. Hate to be a pessimist but it’s a dead planet and it’s radioactive! Nothing would grow and they’d all get radiation poisoning. Very grim. It’s earth in the near future; it can’t be anything else because you can see South America, the same shape and everything from orbit. I think the city was designed like it was to resemble lots of cities. Loads of port cities have views like that; it could be in New York, San Francisco, Sydney, Edinburgh (Edinburgh is actually like that in the winter!), Vancouver, the list is endless.
Great twist, made every theorist wrong, and solves more puzzles than it makes. Looks like Starbuck did “lead the human race to humanity’s end.”
This asks the question; “what’s next for the fleet?” Well, when the cylons gave up at the end of season 2, the fleet couldn’t return to the colonies because they were in nuclear winters, so they chose to settle on New Caprica because it was hidden from the cylons, but now the cylon threat is gradually diminishing and will surely end soon. Now they can go back to Kobol, and make all the cyclical time stuff come full circle. Kobol is the birthplace of humanity.
I see in the 2009 chunk, humans make peace with the cylons and everyone goes to live on Kobol. Hooray!
We all know the story of the one lord of Kobol who grew jealous and declared himself to be the one true god and then went off with the 13th tribe. Who have we got hanging about preaching monotheism to a small group of devotees? 12 lords of Kobol, 12 cylons. My BSG ancient mythology is a bit shaky, but how could there be 13 tribes with only 12 lords? There must be a 13th lord of Kobol. Who you ask? One certain Dr Baltar me thinks.
I’ve always been a big denier of Baltar’s cylonivity (I still can’t believe that’s a word!), and I maintain that. Though it is getting into the realms of a double bluff. Maybe the reason he grew jealous of the 12 is because he’s a human. He ain’t the final cylon. But who is?
There seems to be a general agreement here that D’anna said the final cylon isn’t in the fleet. I watched revelations again and realised she doesn’t say that at all! She says she only wants the four that are in the fleet and she’s not particularly interested in the final one. We can’t eliminate anyone. Listen to what she says, you’ll hear it.
However, Aaron Douglas said that everyone who people have got as a likely candidate (that’s Starbuck, Roslin, Adama, Apollo and Baltar) is way off. So I tend to think that the final cylon is not in the fleet.
All the dead characters are not major enough; Billy, Elosha, Cally, Ellen, Crashdown and Kat are the big deaduns. But still their return would do more good than harm (apart from Ellen, if she’s a cylon she’s the most dangerous of all!). But there’s one person who died, and still manages to crop up from time to time, loads of big characters loved him, and it is the last person any of us would think to be a Cylon. It’d cause a lot of plot. There’s no reason to suspect him, but that’s exacly why it’s him.
Zack Adama
June 15th, 2008 at 9:58 am
you destroyed it all you damn shiny and clean not dirty only in the heart machines
June 15th, 2008 at 10:01 am
Max
Here is a transcript of what D’anna says
Roslin: Then we will return your final five to you
D’anna: Four,… there are four in your fleet
Roslin: Four, wheres the fifth?
D’anna: I want the four in your fleet
This is not to my mind D’anna saying that she isn’t interested in the fifth, it is D’anna telling Roslin there are only four in your fleet and avoiding the question about the whereabouts of the fifth or telling Roslin it doesn’t matter about the fifth.
June 15th, 2008 at 10:27 am
I am not sure if this has been mentioned as I don’t have the time right now to read all of these posts ( and they are great.. the ones that i have skimmed) but I had this thought today…
Starbuck set in motion something that destroyed earth the first time she went there…doesn’t explain how she got back and who rebuilt the viper but still…..
Gods, that would be painful.
June 15th, 2008 at 10:41 am
Matt + Nat,
I have a reasonable theory about Revelations that I wanted to pass along to everyone.
After the cylon peace treaty over 40 years ago, the cylons (or chrome jobs) discovered Earth and invaded the planet much like New Caprica. The occupation was long and painful and no end in site – boy that sounds familiar. The technology created by man (or one of the 13 tribes) came back to destoy their maker. “you cannot play God and expect to wash your hands of the things you created.”
This lesson would be lost on the chrome jobs as they began experiments on humans to create a new breed of cylons – namely skin jobs. As Earthlings continued their insurgency and the made progress in regaining power, the chrome jobs decided to cut their losse – abduct as may Earth people as needed, nuke Earth and fly back to their home planet. Tigh, Anders, Torrie and Tyrol were just a few of these people that were abducted at very young age.
When Husker discovered the cylon ship over 40 years ago, he discovered an old ship which had evidence of past experiments on humans.
So man played God and created clyons – cylons rebelled against man and created a higher form of cylon.
June 15th, 2008 at 10:47 am
This show is why I love Science Fiction.
RDM loves to mess with our minds. It is almost likes he reads these posts and then goes in a direction no one has thought of. With that in mind, so will I.
1) When they escaped New Caprica, the fleet population dropped by five or six thousand. Not all of those people died. The fifth cylon was left behind and the “clawing towards light” is the survivors putting together a ship from parts and going after the fleet. There has been enough destruction so a trail could be followed.
2) I do not think it is our Earth. If the constellations did match, given the very slow movement of stars, it could not be our Earth because the sky is different now than it was a few thousand years ago. Plus I think if it was our Earth, then we would have been shown the land masses.
3) I would like to know what is happening in the Colonies. With this Civil War, the freedom fighters (and there had to be more than just the one group) might be making some headway.
4) The ending was just too quick. How do you just drop in on a planet unannounced? If we were at home and fighters and transport ships suddenly came out of the sky?? I hope the webesodes touch on what happened when they arrived or at least some bonus scenes in the CD version.
5) Maybe I am reading the time lines wrong, but if the Cylons were just working on skinjobs during the war in which Adama and Tigh fought, where did Tigh come from?
There is a lot to be answered in the last ten shows and I hope they are not all answerd, I want a few movies.
June 15th, 2008 at 10:52 am
Felix Says:
“My guess: That is not Earth, but Terra, an old splinter-colony of the 13th tribe. In the original Series, Terra was also at first mistaken for Earth.”
I hope so….or something like that.
They can’t return to Kobol – that system was destroyed by a supernova!
Cavil and the gang – some must have survived, including Boomer. They’ll be back.
Kara will play a big role in what’s to come. I suspect that the very next episode will take us back to Kara’s wormhole trip?
Hard to say – my mind is spinning.
FANTASTIC EPISODE. Eddie is incredible. Great suspense, plot, character, yummy.
That’s all for now.
Tootie
June 15th, 2008 at 11:19 am
@Tootie. Kobol is still intact… they just left it because there was a high chance of cylon attack. You’re thinking of the ‘Temple of the Five’ planet/system.
And hey… if they somehow found the resources they could make it back to Caprica and everything will be happpppy… but that’s not gonna happen.
June 15th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
BEST EPISODE…so far. PLEASE HEAR ME OUT!!!!
I always had a feeling that Earth was post-apocalyptic because of an interview ron moore had when
he said that the phrase “All this has happened before, and all of this will happen again” will have alot of meaning
that shapes the series finale. Basically, this could lead to the greatest plot twist EVER!!!!
That in our future we had a nuclear holocaust. We also had advanced space technology to travel to other planets.
We found Kobal and settled for thousands of years. Earth was forgotten. We turned from the universalized monotheistic religion
back to polytheism. We basically started over. Kobal was a paradise, then turned into flawed planet that has been cursed with death.
That is similar to the Garden of Eden. How Adam and Eve disobeyed God and paradise was forbidden. And they were cursed by God
with death or the ability to die.
That being said, history has repeated itself because everyone forgot what happened at Earth. So, this leads to my final cylon theory…..
PYTHIA! Yes, I think she is the final cylon. It makes sense if your willing to actually think about it. She has something to do with Earth.
Let’s say that the final cylons are immortal. Then that would explain how the Final Five have been around for 4000 years, which
is what the Temple of Five suggests. Pythia had a vision or retold the destruction of Earth, which would be the flood. Not literally a flood though, since we now see that Earth is a nuclear wasteland….or is it. Anyways, Pythia could possibly have something to do with the detsruction of Earth, which means she would need some kind of redemption.
This also makes sense because ron moore said that they have beee playing around with the last cylon since season 1. PYTHIA was introduced in
“The Hand of God” by Elosha in season 1. So, things kinda add up.
If this doesn’t even get close, then I don’t know what will. It’s either this or another ancillary character becomes a cylon…cough!…TORY…cough!!!
June 15th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
I’m sure your right charles, anyone in the fleet would be a cop out anyway. You were very quick.
Pretty off subject but I just saw the preiview for ep 11 and I think I got some bad news for all you Anders fans. Starbuck is standing next to a bonfire looking sad, a la the end of return of the jedi. Fair to assume someone’s dead. Starbuck’s got those dog tags she gave to Anders on Caprica and a wedding ring. I hope he’s OK but I’m doubtfull.
June 15th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
‘i can not belive they didnt give us thr full ending FRACK!!!!!!!!!!!!! but if its true that ther is a season 4.3 i hope it can explane what the is going on !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but it could be posble that ther not on earth it could be KOBOL has any1 has thought about that and also ther must b a season 4.3 beacuse sum of the proase has not come yet like
- kara the happernjer of death
- the dieing leader
- fenal 1
- and much more much more liek what the frack is going on ???????????????????????????
i hate R.D MOORE season 4 is coming out like will the big wait for season 4 tipical hey
SEASOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN 44444444444444444444444444444444444
444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444 44444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
but it was a good episode in all esapcail the ADAMA’s and c ing the fleet in that big seen and did any1 think tha ROSLIN was a HEAD ROSLIN when she got back on GALATICA’
illiteracy is not an attractive trait my friend
and neither is mis-spelling ‘Galactica’ on this forum
June 15th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
Ummmm Josh…….Tory is a cylon…revealed at the end of season 3…the first of the final five to rejoin the cylons in this episode…been discussed numerous times throughout this season
June 15th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Thanks for that Shivers. I was amazed at that persons writing skills as well. How can one be that bad of a speller. Especially when the forum marks your spelling errors with little red lines.
June 15th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
And of course, I had to make a punctuation mistake in my post. Need a question mark after that third sentence.
June 15th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
FFFFFRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKK!
Hope that gets your attention.
I think we’re all going about this the wrong way. Let’s try taking some advice from Lampkin, and instead of creating huge lists of possible cylons and eliminating them, look for who has the qualities needed.
I came up with a possible method of cylon detection that I think remains unused. The 12 cylons are the archtypes of humanity, so who fills in the personality gap?
Then again, if this is right, then over half of humanity should be male, but give it some thought.
Thoughts?
Great Theoreys, there is some damn meaningfull, philosophical, logical and godsdamn funky stuff here! Keep it a’ comin’.
June 15th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
My God’s! What the Frak! We have cheering and joyous celebration in the final scenes of an episode of BSG?…Oh wait, no – they’re on the planet now – cue sadness, depression and loss…back to normal, Phew! that was close…
Anyway, this was a great episode. It was fast paced and gripping to watch. I didn’t expect ‘Earth’ to be found so soon and as usual I am left having no idea where they will go from here…I won’t even speculate as my head will hurt. AGH! There’s that Gods damned frequency noise again…!
June 15th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
Umm SamT, I meant that Tory was an ancillary character that turned into a cylon. Which was a little bit dissapointing.
I was saying that if it wasn’t Pythia, then they might pick an ancillary character to be the final cylon, just like
they picked Tory to be one of the five.
I can see how you misunderstood me. U must of thought I was an idiot…but NO. I watch BSG every week Live and I
know that Tory is a Cylon.
June 15th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
I’m going to attempt to try and post this again so I can finally go through and read everyone’s comments. Since the urls might be the problem of why my comment is not showing I am going to refer you you to the link in my name with every new picture set. So just click on my name if you want to see the pictures in question. I will also break this up into 2 or three posts in case the length is the problem.
After last night’s show I’m speechless. In the span of two days I found out two mind boggling facts about the show. So the Rag Tag Fleet has found Earth. Awesome plot twist!!!! So where does that leave how the show is going to end? I think I may very well have stumbled upon at least part of the answer.
“They’re Beings of Light and they have been from the start.”
Now, when I say “they” I am talking about the head people.
OK, I know some of you are probably rolling your eyes and thinking about casino planets and men running around in banana hammocks playing Triad . All I will say is; stow all the cheesy 70s trappings of the original series. Think with an open mind and ask yourself how would the new show re imagine the “War of the Gods” TOS 2 parter. You know, like they re imagined the Pegasus story. Made Cain an interesting character. etc.
Minds open? Good, Let’s move on.
In the original series there are three different incarnations of the Beings of Light. First you have the Ship of Lights and the Beings of Light group aboard the ship, about 5 or 6. Then you have Count Iblis who is in fact an evil Being of Light. Finally, in the episode Experiment in Terra there is a Being of Light by the name of John who plucks Apollo out of his Viper and gives him a mission to save an Earth like planet named Terra. In the new series In the Re imagined series there are four known head people. Head Six, Head Baltar, Head Leoben, and Head Elosha. We have the Rebel Baseship where Laura encountered Elosha as well.
Basically this is what I believe:
RebelBaseship= Ship of Lights
Head Elosha=Beings of Light group
Head Six/Baltar= Count Iblis
Head Leoben= Being of Light John
I’m not gonna even Frak with Head kitty. More power to anyone that figures that crap out. Maybe he is the reincarnated soul of Muphett…
With this first post I’m going to only deal with the Rebel Baseship and Head Elosha. The reason why is because I think it’s the most jaw dropping and compelling evidence that the show is still using the TOS play book and maybe has been the whole time. Also I still need to do some more research with Head Six/Baltar and especially Head Leoben.
Before I continue here’s a quick key for my internet shorthand:
The Original Series=TOS Re Imagined Series= RIS Beings of Light= BOL Ship of Lights = SOL
Revelations Part 2
My journey of believing that the the Beings of Light were being used in the RIS started after Faith. Laura’s dream got me thinking about the Opera House visions and how it was tthe space between life and death. A few of you may recall my musings about the “Next Realm” and that the end of the show would be about how we get there. Boy, did I call it about finding Earth b4 the end. Frak, I didn’t think it would be so soon though. Anyways, I started dancing around the Beings of Light idea that others were talking about. Interesting thoughts, and they fit with what I was thinking. Then Jim aka dfdawg shared his BOL theories with me. I was impressed and seriously stared thinking about the BOL idea. So then I went to go back and watch War of the Gods. “Great stuff!!!” I thought. I could see where Jim was going. What I was focused on though were the parallels between Count Iblis/Sheeba and Head Six/Baltar relationships. I also read about how people thought that Kara was painting the Ship of Lights on her Demetrius mural. Like everyone else, I just fluffed it off once we saw it was the Rebel Baseship. All interesting thoughts that fell to the wayside.
The Beings of Light thoughts were set to back the of my mind when I watched “The Hub”. Once I came off Cloud 9 from that episode I started to think about what was happening to Roslin and the deeper meanings of what Elsosha was showing and telling her and why. Then I thought about the blueish hue of the Galactica and it suddenly dawned on me…… Holy frak, the Rebel Baseshship [b]IS[/b] the Ship of Lights. The blue background on Galactica matched the blue background in the Being of Light dimension. My mind was going in a thousand directions. “Ok, let’s think about this.”; I thought to myself. So I decided to go through and watch War of the Gods and The Hub again and this time take notes like Jim did. Again a lot of the focus was on Count Iblis, but the Beings of Light had some interesting things to say. Awesome stuff the guys on the boards are going to love this.
Two nights ago I started going over my notes and wanted to get a comparison shot of the Rebel Baseship from Faith for my post. Great off I went, snap snap, snap. After that I stared watching the approach scene and something Leoben said grabbed my attention….
[i]God’s plan is revealed.[/i]
What? Does that mean? Is he trying to tell us something? That’s when I started to notice something. There were shots similar to the the approach to the Ship of Light scene from War of the Gods part 2. I took a few snaps then went and watch the WOG scene again and not only were the shots similar, but they were exact one to one comparisons. more snaps.. Every time I looked closer I saw something else. Then I wondered about “The Hub” and sure enough the shots in Galactica match the BOL dimension. Even Baltar got into the act. It’s insane how I would jump from one scene to the other and just keep finding more parallels. I’ll just let the pics do the talking from here and then go over some of the BOL lines and what Elosha was telling Roslin.
Faith comparison.
Shuttle VS. Raptor
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Faraway
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Sideview
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Shuttle VS. Raptor 2
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TOS Shuttle Fireballs
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RIS Raptor Fireballs
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Why are there so many RIS shots? Frak I just love to look at them
Fireballs
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Cockpit POV 1
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Note that the Fireballs in TOS give off light that shines on Sheeba and StarBuck much like jumping
Cockpit POV 2
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Again notice how the fireball explosions match the TOS fireballs
Starbuck Meet Starbuck
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The exact same profile, with the exception of Leoben in RIS
Shiny Happy People
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In the TOS episode the fireballs passing over the view screen flashes light over Starbuck and Sheeba and the same Flash happens in the RIS when they jump to the Baseship.
A Horse of a Different Color
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Again the exact same profile with the exception of the added crew in the RIS
I Dream a Little Dream
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Notice the same dissolve technique is used for the scene transition as Starbuck wakes up in both series.
June 15th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
So you are probably sitting there thinking “That’s interesting, so what? Maybe the show runners are just having a bit of fun with the TOS fans. I’d agree with you under normal circumstances, but wait dear reader… there is so much more….
The Hub Comparisons
Ship of Light VS. Rebel Baseship
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Notice that both ships have six points, some short and some long. Like the damaged points on the baseship are short, for example.
Hera Pic
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Here’s an interesting drawing I found in Guess What’s coming to dinner. Why would Hera draw a Baseship with a 6? Referring to Nat.? Maybe the show is dropping a clue by pointing out the six points of a baseship. I’ll have more to say about this pic in a later post.
Galactica Space Between Life and Death
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Look at how Galactica is covered in a blueish hue that matches the blue coloring of the Being of Light dimension.
Being of Light Vs. Elosha
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Again we have the same profiles and matching going on as in Faith. Notice how Elosha is wearing light blue and lavender that has a similar look to the BOL
2 BOL
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If you look at Laura’s outstretched hand it matches the BOL on the left with it’s arm slightly in front of itself.
Starbuck over the shoulder
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Deep Embrace
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2 on 1
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I think at this point I need to explain a little about the slight difference between the staging and editing between TOS and RIS. In the War of the Gods episode they show dead Apollo and cut back to Starbuck, Sheeba, and BOL Like this….
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In contrast the RIS has everyone huddled around the dieing Laura.
2 on 2
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I find it very interesting that Cottle is here. Why is he in this realm with the other major players? Also notice how his white coat matches either the white outfits of the TOS mains or the BOL. If does make one wonder if he could be the final cylon. Recall the scene where Nat. died…. You should also note that the dieing Roslin is in white just like the dead Apollo in TOS.
2 on 3
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Apollo Shuttle
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This an interesting one. You have Apollo dead after being killed by Count Iblis matching dead on with Larua yet you could argue that Adama laying in the Raptor matches
Baltar Get in on the Act
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This one is kind of spooky. It’s the only Baltar scene that jumped out at me. I really didn’t give the shots where Baltar confesses to Laura a look. There could very well be parallels with Sheeba/Apollo scenes. let me know if anyone finds any.
Dead and dieing
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Lovers Embrace
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3 is a Magic Number
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This one through me for a loop. I had the RIS scene but I couldn’t see any matches with TOS. Then I looked at Apollo after he resurrects and it became clear. Here you have the lovers:Sheeba/Adama comforting the resurrected/dieing Apollo/Laura alongside Cottle/BOL
If that doesn’t convince you that the unspoken truth about the show is that they are using the TOS play book from star to finish I don’t know what will.
I’ll move on to BOL dialog and try to compare them in the context of The Hub
SB: “Where are we?”
BOL: “In a dimension quiet apart from your own.”
That tracks with Laura jumping into the space between life and death
SB: I can hear you and see you.
BOL: That is by our choosing.
Elosha willingly chooses to show herself to Laura. The question is,why? There could also be a relation to the hybrid’s repeated utterances of the chosen one over and over.
SB: Are you Angels?
BOL: There is some truth to your speculation.
I can buy that, the head people are from a higher plain beyond death like Roslin’s vision in Faith.
There is a bit about Apollo and that he was not meant to die.
I think this might correlate with Elosha convincing Laura that Baltar shouldn’t die. He certainly looked like he was about to go, but then was saved. He was not meant to leave the story yet. He still has a role to play. Or this could be about Kara in Malestorm. But I feel that that episode relates to Experiments in Terra which I’ll try to figure out later.
Then they go on to talk about humanity being saved or worthy. I think that has been the question and point of the whole series if you think about. In fact, I think I remember Caprica or head Six has said something similar. Something like… Is humanity worth saving or of survival? I’ll have to track the quote down.
BOL: As you are now we once were. As you are now you may become.
SB: When?
BOL:After you’ve seeded and nurtured new civilization and evolved.
SB: On Earth? Will you show us the way?
BOL: Perhaps we can give you a beginning.
From here they go on to talk about Count Iblis. I’ll address that sometime in the future.
Now that last bit is interesting. Especially, now when you consider the latest episode. Elosha gave Laura a beginning by giving her her humanity back. But only a first step. Roslin only extended her humanity to Baltar, a human. Notice how she went strait back to old Roslin when dealing with the cylons. Now that we are on Earth the next step is creating a civilization with the cylons.
While in the mist of gathering all the information and pictures I realized something. In light of the evidence I found and last nights Revelation about Earth I started thinking. I believe Leoben is the key to the whole series. He was the first to utter the words “All of this has happened before and all of this will happen again.” Then in Faith he’s sitting there telling us what is right in front of our faces. “God’s plan is revealed.” He’s telling us the show is being Re imagined. This has to be a major clue givien the photos above. I don’t think he is saying that in that one instant there is a Re Imagining. He is showing us clear as day what the creators of the show are doing. And the fact that the scene is so ridiculously close to War of Gods has to be the clue of that unravels the entire series. Then last night Kara tells Lee about something Leoben told her, “Children are born to replace their parents. For children to reach their full potential their parents have to die. She is talking about the show itself. The old show is the parent and the new show is the child. It clicks why we find Earth so early when I think about that. The entire show is Re imagined from the beginning to the bitter end. Finding Earth is the start of the final leg of the original saga. A re imagined version of Galactica 1980. It certainly explains why Earth is devastated when they found it.
I could go on about how that idea makes me look at the show in new ways and how I see how things like New Caprica was a re imagining of Terra or what I think is going to happen, but I think I’ve given enough today for people to digest. I hope you enjoyed reading all this as much as I have enjoyed figuring these things about the show.
\\Brain explodes from information overload.
June 15th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
Folks!
just to start, I want to get this off my Chest:
>> BORG Says:
>> June 13th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
>>
>> What do you people want???!!! Galactica is the best show on the tube. (BY FAR) It’s like rain….would it ever rain if it waited until everyone wanted it.
>> Name one other show that even comes close to this
My answer: THE SOPRANOS
Anyway, back to the egg-head stuff. What an incredible episode – the heart thumping was back, it had me close to tears at parts and I must have said “oh my god” at least 5 times aloud…
We were all prepared for many, many things that took place in the episode, yet still nothing failed to make me feel like I was watching something unfold that I just could not believe. The actual ‘”revelations” were incredibly well done and all had me shaking my head in a kind of “I can’t believe that just happened” kind of way. I haven’t felt this emotional about a BSG episode since Starbuck shot Apollo back in Season 2. And yes, the part where they find earth was – in my humble opinion – way too soon. The first thing I thought was “why would Adama blurt all this out to the fleet before sending in the Recon to make sure of what’s down there?”. Yet even after rolling my eyes and thinking “duuuuh”, the entire sequence after that had me completely in its grasp and the emotions had their way with me. Hands up: who didn’t get a big lump in the throat when they showed that picture of Kat?
Greatest moments that d i d n ‘ t happen in this episode:
1) When Anders asks Tigh where he’s going, the reply should have been “to do my job” (in that rough Adama-like voice)
2) When Adama goes on a rampage in his office, he should have broken that model Ship again
3) When the Basestar and Raptor appear, someone in the CIC should have yelled “look, it’s wagging”
4) Where was the broken arm or the protruding head of the statue of liberty?
Anyways – I have often found it quite difficult to pass the time between fridays until the next episode comes. The 2 week break was even worse, but JANUARY 2009???? What the frack?
The best line of this Season, spoken by Bill Adama (of course) was: “you guys just gonna sit here flapping your lips, or are we gonna go find earth … frack it. This is the end of the line. We got no where else to go … we gotta roll the hard six – we all go together”. Almost as good as “Kara was family. You do what you have to do. You break the rules”. Awesome.
Oh yeah, you folks: stop the madness! Just because D’anna said she would kill everyone on the Basestar, doesn’t mean that the Final Final wasn’t there. Maybe she was bluffing and would have killed all but the Final Final. Besides, she already told us last week that Roslin is one of them
And finally, where the heck are the “Bad-Cylons”? What about all those human-cylon, cylon-cylon babies? Who invented soft-soap and why?
See you guys in 6 months…
Ripley
June 15th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
I realise at least one other person in this thread has observed this, but it seems fairly significant that in the final shot there is a cross in the background, indicating that christianity exists in the battlestar universe. perhaps this is where the cylons got their god from, their ancestors that came to earth just adapted monotheistic teachings that they found when they came to earth?
June 15th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
This was by far one of the best episodes of BSG I came to witness. I’m a bit sad that it does all seem rushed, but as Nat once stated, there’s a masochist part of me whose all giddy about finding out everything at last, even if it’s so quick.
Like some of you, I too was expecting to find an apocalyptic Earth (if indeed it IS Earth) because RDM did mention there wouldn’t be a happy go lucky ending (although it is not quite the ending yet). I also quite liked how, in the end, it was a big slap in the face for both Cylons and Humans alike, especially since they were celebrating the end of their journey… which appears not to have ended just yet after all. Kara must be the most devastated of all, considering how she recalled it being a green paradise with blue skies; What she found was everything but that. So I cannot wait to see what her further reaction, and that of others toward her, will be. Olmos’ acting for Adama’s breakdown was breathtaking, and I’ll be the first to admit that I was bawling like a baby during that scene. Pure brilliance. And what to say about Lucy Lawless’ performance? Beautiful.
Most of you have great theories, and I doubt I’d be able to add more to them now (perhaps later, with further thoughts). Nevertheless, there are a few things that struck me as interesting, especially near the end or at the very end.
Someone stated that Laura Roslin, before telling Adama to take them to Earth, says “Oh God” and not “Oh Gods”. I had to rewind a few times and listen over and over again… and although I was excited at first to find that person may have been right, I came to notice that’s not what she says at all. She, in fact, whispers “Okay…” I do wish she would have said “Oh God” instead though! Haha!
I like the mentioning that what we come to see first on the wasteland could be the original Adama’s home. It would add to the “All of this has happened before and will happen again”. That is one interesting theory I like a lot!
Onto the show itself, there are three things that really struck me when it comes to the characters.
The first one is Hera. Creepy child at best if you ask me. When everyone is celebrating, you get to see a shot of Athena and Helo holding onto Hera. They embrace and kiss while Hera is looking over Helo’s shoulder. The camera pans in one her then…. Anyone else noticed how grim she looked? Some may speculate that she’s too young to understand what’s going on, but I think we’ve come to see that Hera knows a lot more then she shows. Furthermore, a child her age will more often then not react to her parents’ emotions no matter what. But she does none of that. While she looked over Helo’s shoulder, she was looking away from the viewer, thoughtful, again giving that sensation that she knew that something was not right, that their celebration was in vain.
Then later, when the people are facing the disaster of the wastelands, the play in camera between Baltar and Caprica 6 was pure genius. You see Caprica 6 a bit, then it pans on Baltar, looking away with his back turned at her. Never once does he look back… and she never so much as glances at him, almost as if neither existed for each other anymore. She goes on walking past him, not even going to him at all (considering what they’ve been through together, it’s one hell of a change) then goes to Tigh instead. There was such a coldness between Baltar and Caprica 6 that it made me shiver.
Better yet, you have Leoben standing near Kara… when you’d think Anders would still be by her side.
Going back to the vicious circle Cylons have been referring to constantly since the very beginning, something struck me as interesting. It could be a direct reference or a coincidence, but knowing RDM, I wouldn’t be surprised if this was an actual reference… Has anyone ever read “The Dark Tower” series by Stephen King? Perhaps it’s my obsession with that series that makes me see references (perhaps far fetched) but I can’t help but find some. Roland Deschain is in search of the Dark Tower in a world that has “moved on”. There are always references that ka (fate) is a wheel that constantly turns. “All of this has happened and will happen again”. The world has moved on, fate is a recurring wheel. It will happen again. Roland goes threw wastelands, desolate old people’s cities (one of them being an alternate version of a post-war New York) after what appears to be a post-apocalyptic time. Seeing the colonies land on a desolate wasteland that Earth has become, I thought the reference was just as obvious. Back to square one, much like Roland at the end of his journey. The human race (and the cylons who appear to become more and more human) cannot escape their fate. They may evade it for a while, but it will catch up to them like a wheel, and it will be back to the beginning for them. Humankind escaped the colonies (slowly turning into wastelands themselves) only to find themselves on the thirteenth colony… and being back to the beginning. And furthermore, the song “All Along the Watchtower” somehow rang a bell as well.
Yes, I agree it’s a bit far fetched, but it’s an interesting little thing nevertheless.
Thanks for reading, and I’ll keep on reading all those interesting theories! 2009 is so far away…
What torture!
June 15th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
I am still catching my breath, it will be a long wait for the rest of the season.
I think Tigh is doing his best impression of “Bender” from Futurerama!
June 15th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Lex wrote:
ITA, but I think there’s something else in play here — wasn’t “Earth” supposed to be the magic bullet for both the Fleet and the Rebel Cylons. The place where they could lay down their burdens for once and for all, just like New Caprica. I said up thread that the magic moment in this episode was when D’Anna says “All this has happened before” and Lee fires back “but it doesn’t have to happen again, unless we choose to.” In that moment, Lee and D’Anna choose to get off the endless cycle of fear turning into hate turning into deception turning into betrayal, rinse and repeat until you die horribly.
I know, depending on your political leanings, RDM is either a politically-correct, terrorist-cuddling Hollyweird liberal or a borderline fascist apologist for torture, religious fundamentalism and military dictatorship.
But for me, this show has always been about the notion that life is about CHOICES, and the choices you make have real and lasting CONSEQUENCES not just for yourself, but for everyone and everything around you. And human beings — and the Cylons — are profoundly flawed, capable of doing the right thing for all the wrong reasons, and vice versa. Did we really think the Thirteenth Tribe would be any different — that they’d just be sitting around in their plastic utopia, making punch and party favours for the grand family reunion?
Yeah right…
June 15th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
Did anyone else notice the final piece of wreckage on Earth was the remnants of the Brooklyn Bridge? I think the fifth cylon is Helo by the way. Only because he’s completely under the radar when it comes to the ole’ “Hard 6″ He has never done anything regretful in all the episodes of BSG. He is the ONLY character that has never had to compromise his morals. He is for all intents and purposes completely good. I would think the fifth cylon would be someone like that. Someone without guilt or regret or resentment etc. WHEN DOES THE REST OF THE SERIES START!!!!!!!! Can’t handle it.
June 15th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
I thought this episode was quite amazing. Both in plot and acting.
1. The first thing I can comment on is the superb acting. The characters were true to themselves (well I still think something is up with sane Starbuck). I loved Tigh’s smile once he finished revealing to Adama his secret. He looked every bit the man who has finally had a heavy burden lifted off of him. Tyrol’s expression while he and Anders were being arrested was spot on. Since Cally’s death, it seemed Tyrol just didn’t care anymore, and he didn’t judging by the grin and his tone. Tory looked so cold this episode. I can only believe that if she knew about her true nature in earlier episodes she would have been on the side of the 1, 4, and 5.
2. D’Anna surprised me this episode; I didn’t think that after being boxed and just resurrecting that she’d be in the leadership position so quickly. I suppose since Natalie was no longer alive it was up to someone who oozed authority to lead the rebels.
3. The Roslin and Adama interaction was quite interesting. Roslin was extremely touchy-feely when it came to Adama. The scene in Adama’s quarters while Lee was there showed Roslin rubbing his back and arms. And in the CIC once they reached Earth, they held hands before hugging. It was all very mature, and I’m glad that this Roslin-Adama romance is being handled in a way that doesn’t keep the characters from becoming odd.
4. When Adama picks up the soil on Earth, I was immediately reminded of the scene in “Unfinished Business” where he and Roslin were taking in their location. Both times, the camera zoomed in on Adama and his interaction with the dirt. Another show I was reminded of was Star Trek: Voyager. When Adama tells Roslin to give the final order, “Take us to Earth” I was thrown back into Endgame Part II where Captain Janeway stated in the final scene, “Set a course for home.”
5. I truly believe that they landed in New York. After watching the episode many times I still say that I saw the destruction from the Brooklyn Bridge.
6. Roslin was the “dying leader”. Yes, Pythia stated that the dying leader would not set foot on Earth, but I believe that Pythia was referring to something far beyond the body.. It was Roslin’s former attitude that died, the leader, Madame President that Elosha said with such venom who died before reaching Earth, not the body that housed that behavior.
I quite enjoyed this episode and I cannot wait for the return of the second half of the season.
June 15th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
\\ picks up brain matter
Wow, you guys just keep pouring them on. Awesome, comments!!!!!!! I only made it through half of them.
Between putting my post together, the show friday, and and the massive amount of comments, I’m on BSG overload.
Heh I feel so bad for Mat+Nat having to pick a comment on such short notice. Keep the comments coming guys. \\evil grin
I just wanted to say that from the posts I read; I’m really digging the idea that what the fleet found was Mars or Titan. I also like the idea that Earth could be Terra from the Original series.
Looking forward to reading the rest of the comments.
June 15th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
Yay! Maureen Ryan is not just a great FOBSG (Friend of BSG), but her scoop has turned out to be pretty reliable. From what I’ve seen, a pretty consistent criticism of this season is the (understandable) compression in the storytelling — there’s just not room for as much of the leisurely story development, and some of the nice character beats that aren’t strictly necessary to the plot but add texture, we’ve seen elsewhere. But a THREE HOUR series finale (which, I assume means just north of two hours without ads)? Wheee….
June 15th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
Um, I’m not being snarky here Captain Wow but I keep hearing this and just aren’t seeing it. The Brooklyn Bridge is truly an iconic piece of engineering, but is it really so distinctive that THIS is hard evidence that our rather glum band ended up in Brooklyn. (No wonder they’re depressed.
)
There’s also the possibility that we’re now in uncharted territory — certainly far beyond anywhere Pythia’s chamalla trips went. As I’ve said repeatedly, if everyone turns out to be nothing more than sock-puppets of prophecy it’s not only really boring, but IMNSHO runs directly counter to the idea that’s so strong in this show that people (deeply flawed as they are) are the sums of their choices, and those choices have consequences.
June 15th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
Hogan is a great actor. Tigh is so loyal and brave. I had a lump in my throat bigger than space when he was standing in the airlock by himself, all dignified and neat. It was so tense and sad and all other things all at the same time.
I think the dyling leader won’t set foot on earth because earth in pythia isn’t planet earth but wherever humanity’s salvation is.
Maybe the final 5 cylons aren’t physical models of cylons, but souls or conciousnesses, transmitted through human bodies, immortal since the begining of the cycle to do their job.
Just throwing ideas out there, pretty much everything new I can think of has been said.
Eveyone go to youtube and fing the Ep 11 trailer. Tigh knows the fith.
June 15th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
This week BSG rocked. I have to say Apollo has redeemed himself this episode. Or the full force of all that noble characterization came to a head. We knew he was the guy that steps up and does the right thing but what if the right thing is inherently wrong? Like murdering your father’s best friend? The thing I find interesting about Apollo’s character is that although he is the knight in shining armor we see he has a dark side. And his dark side is actually really flamboyant even compared to the other dark characters on BSG. He was the one who came up with the idea to kill all the cylons by exposing them to the cylon killing virus. Apollo was promoting wholesale genocide. Yet Starbuck gets to be the harbinger of death…
But I digress…Apollo stepped up to the plate and was the man.
The most touching moment was Apollo picking up the pieces for Adama when he falls apart. That was deep on so many levels. Not easy to see your dad the toughie fall apart…loose it and you have to step in and be the strong one. Even for these two.
And he was going to throw Saul out the air lock! And Saul…someone mentioned that he had a pair… He sure did as always. But also not as always…he is a cylon with a human heart waiting for the relief he hopes death will bring him because he can’t reconcile himself to being what he is.
So is Saul the baby daddy? If he is which I doubt then this is the final cylon…the fifth!
Earth…
I have to say I am with the people who do not believe that this is the real earth. And I am in Brooklyn and DO NOT see any Brooklyn Bridge in the ruins portrayed at the end of this episode. Get over yourselves it is not New York! I think that the real earth is going to be very much like the one portrayed in the tomb of Apollo. If not why this vision?
Also time is relative in the BSG universe. Maybe that portrayal from the tomb was sometime in the past of earth before the apocalypse.
Perhaps it is a Head Apocalypse.
Maybe they are all tripping in the time space continuum between jumps relieving themselves of their subconscious fears. After all both species have gone through. All the cataclysmic events they created and survived; couldn’t one of their basic fears be that they are traveling in vain towards a home world that no longer exists or which, exists only in ruins?
June 15th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
May be spoilerie if you havnt seen it:
You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! Zod damn you all to hell!(Galacticast version)
Sorry had too, This Was Perfect, cause the entire plot just shifted, Things will have to change.
The two things I noticed was one, Tyrol Look Happy/creepy , just little looks he gave tigh in the air lock.
He just looked so relieved to have it off his chest.
And The other thing was the final scene when they did the big pan through the group on the ground, was that Caprica 6 with Tigh?
She kinda brushed his arm and stopped right next to him.
But the real question now is, Tory will stay on the Starbuck Basestar .
But Will/can Tigh, Anders and Tyrol go back to their old jobs?!?
Will Adama Be able to get over it?
And what of the Other Cylons now?
They wanted earth too, right?
But really This was a great episode, and the effects near then was fantastic, it felt like a mini-series or movie when they showed the ships flying.
It was also cool seeing the Basestar Traveling with the fleet.
My only problem with the episode was that it seem like another rushed episode how ever if they didnt do it that way it become A predictable plot That ends with earth.
So I guess I am ok with rushedness.
June 15th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
I thought it would’ve been highly fitting if the Galactica fleet arrived just as the inhabitants of Earth was taking off to find the mythical twelve colonies after they’re homeworld was destroyed.
June 15th, 2008 at 5:34 pm
I’ve seen the ending at least 10 times and it’s still haunting. Hits you right in the gut. I thought it was New York after seeing it but who knows. This is Ron Moore’s nod to the Soprano’s ending, but a bit more obvious that onion rings and fade to black. He will have us talking until 2009.
I hope Ron Moore releases the DVD with extended episode versions like he did with Pegasus. Ron are you listening?
A few nice moments possibly inspired by classic films. Lee trying to get the Admiral to pull it together smacked of the Godfather with Michael telling his dad Vito. “I’ll handle it, I told you I would handle it”
The Admiral grabbing a handful of Earth and throwing it down in disappointment reminding me of Raiders of the Lost Ark when the Nazi’s opened the Ark only to find sand.
I would have loved seeing this episode expanded to 2 parts and getting into the shock of Starbuck knowing Anders is a cylon and a few more quiet scenes.
Great season and nice to hear an extra hour is going to be added to the season.
June 15th, 2008 at 5:47 pm
I’m a little disappointed – but in a good way. This is the dark ending I envisioned for the final episode of the series so it caught me off guard as the mid-season finale. BSG is about finding hope which came from the idea that Earth is the great panacea that can erase all their problems, make all their suffering fade away, ensure humanities survival and allow them to find some measure of happiness again ——— and then this beacon of hope turns out to be wiped out exactly like the planets they just behind. Everything they went through in the series, all the pain, all the death and all the suffering was for nothing. Hope is lost. Romo was right when he said “The last thing this fleet needs is hope” because what happens when that hope gets taken away. With enough time humanity’s nature of war and curiosity can not help but destroy itself. If all this has happened before and will happen again what is the point of rebuilding a civilization again? It completes the circle back to the mini-series when Bill Adama asks why does humanity deserve to live. As Athena would say Maybe we don’t. I think it would have been a great open-ended ending to the series where you get closure but everyone doesn’t have a nice neat ending wrapped in a bow.
The actual ending to the series better be really, really good cause I don’t think you can get a better one than this.
June 15th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
The more I think about it, Ben, the less sure I am that I agree with you on that point. Yes, I do LOVE the character beats that aren’t strictly necessary in terms of narrative but add texture to the show… but there’s also a big part of me that loves the speed and urgency of this season.
Quoted for fraking truthiness, Rolling Hard Six. OK, you just expect Eddie Olmos to nail it every time, but it’s also lovely to see Jamie Bamber (and the character of Lee Adama) do something other than being all Emo and not working out his daddy issues. This wasn’t only about Lee finally stepping out of his father’s shadow, but stepping up to be a true leader. And that’s not just about having a job title, or nuclear launch keys, or giving an order to throw someone out an airlock. Real leadership is also about compassion, empathy and LOVE. Lee had to figure that out without a Head-Elosha to give him a good (and long over-due) talking to.
June 15th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
HOLLY FRAK…HOLLY FRAK…HOLLY FRAK…HOLLY FRAK…HOLLY FRAK, I DID NOT SEE THIS COMING. WHAT AN EPISODE ,THE BEST YET. THEY FINALLY GET TO EARTH. THERE ARE STILL SOME STORY ARCS THAT ARE UNRESOLVED. I HAVE SOME BURNING QUESTIONS.
1.WHO IS THE FINAL CYLON, THERE ARE THIRTEEN, NOT 12 AS MOST OF US BELIEVE. 13 TRIBES THIRTEEN CYLONS
2. WHY DID DIANA SAY THER WERE ONLY 4 IN THE FLEET NOT 5. I BELIEVE GUIS IS ONE, HE AS MUCH AS ADMITTS IT TO ROSSLIN ON THE BASESTAR, HE SAIS HE IS THE CYLON GOD.
3.WHO HELPED STARBUCK IN THE CLOUDS WHEN APOLLO WAS CHASING HER, IF YOU LOOK CLOSE THERE IS A THIRD SHIP THERE WITH LEE AND KARA, A HEAVY RAIDER. IS IT THE LAST CYLON WHO HELP HER. I THINK SO AND I THINK THE LAST ONE IS ON EARTH WAITING FOR THEM.
4. WHAT CITY DID THEY LAND AT, I THINK THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. IVE BEEN TO THE ISLAND OF CREETE AND THIS IS VERY SIMULAR TO IT.
5.WHERE ARE THE OTHER THREE CYLONS( CAVIL,SIMON,DOREL)WILL THEY FIND EARTH, WILL THEY SEE THE LIGHT OR END HUMANITY IF THEY GET THERE, I FEEL THIS IS ALSO IMPORTANT.
6.KARA SAID THAT CHILDREN ARE BORN TO REPLACE THERE PARENTS AND FOR CHILDREN TO REACH THERE FULL POTENTIAL THERE PERENTS HAVE TO DIE. IS SHE THE HARBENGER OF DEATH.
7. THEY HAVE A PLAN, AND I THINK ALL A LONG IT WAS TO LEAD THEM TO EARTH AND TO THERE END, FINALLY THE PARENTS ARE DEAD AND THE CHILDREN WILL LIVE ON, THEY CYLONS
8. I THINK THIS IS NOT GOING TO END WELL FOR THE FLEET AND THE HUMANS. I THINK THE LAST EPISODE WE WILL WITNESS THE FINAL BLOW AND BETRAYAL OF MAN. THEY WILL BE GONE.
June 15th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
BTW, was I the only one who absolutely LOVED Tory giving Roslin that slapdown. “I’m through taking orders from you.” I wonder if, in retrospect, that nasty little ‘charter member of Baltar’s nymph squad’ dig in Guess What’s Coming To Dinner was entirely constructive.
I don’t actually blame Tory for not being full of the milk of Cylon kindness when both Tigh and Roslin are quite happy to pimp her out, when it suits their purposes.
June 15th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
mmmm. i know this is really weird
but what if Boomer, as in Sharron [the one that ran away from the hub]
what if shes the final cylon
she thinks differently
and shes always been different that all the others
if you recall on one of the episodes where they are at the Eye Of Jupitar, and the Diana model refused to turn back the heavy raiders from the planet
because Diana told her not too, and she “couldnt” deffy her
but Boomber can
Hint hint?
i dont know, its just a thought
PS. i accidentally posted this comment on a earlier episode, sorry :]
June 15th, 2008 at 7:20 pm
What would really get everyones goat here, if that last scene of them jumping to “Earth” and finding it in ruins is actually someones dream ,or vision and we see them wake from it sweating in the next episode, much like the dram sequence in Dallas. For some reason, I can totally see that happening.
June 15th, 2008 at 7:54 pm
Close to 200 posts! incredible. A few thoughts after reading almost all of them.
Some people thought the ending was too much like Planet of the Apes. The difference is that in Planet of the Apes you know the planet is in a post-apacalypse state and it is revealed that the planet is actually Earth. But in BSG you know it is Earth but is revealed that it is in a post-apacalypse state. If they would have landed in the middle of the National Mall in Washington DC but in the Lincoln memorial there was a statue of a Cylon Centurian instead of Lincoln, now that would have been cheesy. Or if the 5th Cylon turned out to be a left over nuclear bomb – that would have been cheesy too.
George and Paul (are you two in a band together?) got me thinking with their posts about the hybrid children. If, as Leoban said to Kara, that “Parents need to die in order for children to reach their full potential” The cylons have to kill the humans and the hybrid kids need to kill the Cylons AND the Humans to reach their potential. RDM may have hinted at this theme with Lee Adamas story. The last line in “The Son Also Rises” is Romo Lampkin letter to Baltar which says”
There is no greater ally, no force more powerful, no enemy more resolved
Than a son who chooses to step from his father’s shadow.
- Romo Lampkin
The hybrid kids will be the next generation to continue the cycle and will eventually create their own form of Cylon in the future leading to another apocalypse and another exodus. Nicki will be one happy guy when he gets older if Caprica/Saul’s baby is a girl. As they say in Office Space “Two chics at the same time”
June 15th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
Hi All,
That was amazing! There are still so many loose ends, so I liked how they got to the “end” half-way through the final season. I also think that it was so tragic that we had already blown ourselves up; but on the otherhand, it looked like a different civilzation, not “us”. The first landmark we saw looked like one of their temples? i can’t remember which one it was..
But seeing their faces, standing there, looking at where they have landed; grey and radioactive. Lee looks like he was going to vomit from despair, and Kara had a look of OMG, what did I do? I hope and pray this will not kick Lee back after he has been so strong, but at least he has Kara. But she has seen Earth so she says, and they were on Earth in the tomb, right? Also, didn’t Natalie see it before she died? Either way, maybe it’s not earth? But the ship led them to that point, so maybe that is how the harbinger of death line gets into Kara’s destiny; ie. they are not there yet. I thought that the final 5 were supposed to lead them there, but they do not have the fifth yet; who btw I think may be Gaeta afterall. We hear Adama telling someone, we remember D’Anna saying “forgive me, I didn’t know.” If I recall they were not too nice to Gaeta were they? So it can’t be Lee, Kara, Helo as she never had prolonged contact w/any of those people as Lee and Helo were gone, and Kara was w/Leoben in captivity.
Finally, Lee is not a cylon, nor is Kara; they are the next leaders. I do not think that Roslin is the person whom Adama is mourning. I think that it may be: Sharon, or Tigh; not Roslin. I do not think that she is going to die, plus what is the truth of the Opera House?
Also, Kara will hopefully not lose sight of her destiny, and she and Lee will be able to bring humanity to some type of salvation in the end. But little gorgeous baby Hera, what is up with that baby and that scary sad stare with those black eyes?
That’s all for now, I’ll be rewatching tonight so I can have better comments..
Athena
June 15th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
I don’t think they were in New York at the end of the episode, I’m not sure of the city but it is more related to the book of Roslin’s that Lee was showing Kara at the beginning of the episode. That book showed the layout of the “temple of Athena” which included a large round building similar to the opera house on Kobol.
The architecture of the ruins at the end of the episode were very similar, but more extensive (younger?) than the ruins on Kobol. It wasn’t the Brooklyn Bridge at the end but the ruins of the superstructure of the Opera House at the Temple of Athena. This means that the “Truth of the Opera House” might have a meaning beyond the shared dreams of Roslin, Athena and Caprica 6 and be related to the destruction of Earth.
It was interesting to see the way people were arranged in the Ruins. Only two couples, Roslin and Adama and Helo and Athena, were together. There were two proto-couples: Caprica 6 approached Tigh, but couldn’t quite touch him, and Tory reached out to Anders, but he rebuffed her. Everyone else was isolated.
June 15th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
I have another idea. If this has already been mentioned, then sorry.
Hopefully there is something in this theory that you haven’t considered.
We know that the final five come from Earth, right? So maybe they were actually created by the thirteenth tribe, and they had the same kind of rebellion that happened on the 12 colonies. So it would go: “The Cylons were created by man, they evolved, they rebelled” AND “The final five were created by the thirteenth tribe (on Earth), they evolved, they rebelled,” etc.
The question about this is, how did the significant seven know about the final five in the first place? Caprica 6 and Leoben both said that there were 12 cylon models way back in the miniseries, but why wouldn’t they just say there were 7 if they were not allowed to talk or think about the 5? That is the main thing that doesn’t make sense with the whole “the five came from Earth” concept. The two groups of cylons must have met up at some point. Of course, there are similar questions about some of the humans. How does Pythia know about Earth if the 12 colonies were never in contact with the 13th after the 13th left Kobol? Why haven’t the humans considered that perhaps the real birthplace of mankind (or part of it) is actually Earth? Of course, this has already been discussed, so I won’t get into that.
But if it turns out that Kobol really is the birthplace of mankind, then maybe Pythia is the final fifth. It would explain how she (or he?) could know about Earth and pass on that information to the 12 colonies, and it would explain the similarities between the Cylon and Human scriptures. (They both talk about the Eye of Jupiter). It would also explain why the Temple of Five was older than the beacon in the Lion’s Head Nebula.
So here is how this scenario would go: The final five cylons rebel against the thirteenth tribe that created them on Earth. They head off into the stars to find a home of their own, and in the process, they leave behind the beacon in the Lion’s Head Nebula, and build the Temple of Five, which they devote to themselves- the five priests devoted to the one whose name cannot be spoken.
What happens to them after that is a mystery though. I don’t really know how they could be connected to the Opera House or to the place between life and death, but its a working theory. Perhaps there was another Opera House on Earth (perhaps in British Columbia) that is connected to the ones on Kobol and Caprica. Perhaps they died before they found a home, and that is why they are connected with death. Either way, they must have had some sort of contact with the significant seven at some point. Maybe for a short time they were united, but then the five were thrown out by the seven and all memory of them was erased. That would explain why Leoben and Caprica Six tell Adama and Baltar that there are 12 models. Maybe the schism between the five and the seven happened after the miniseries. (That would be an interesting twist).
This would also explain why D’anna apologized to one of the five. She could have been talking to Pythia. Perhaps she had always considered Pythia to be just another false prophet of the humans. She would definitely owe Pythia an apology for thinking that. It would also be a good follow up for why she visited the oracle on New Caprica. She is beginning to realize that there is some substance to the colonials’ religion. It would also explain why part of Tyrol’s back story is that his parents were an oracle and a priest.
What do you think?
June 15th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
Hey its me again, im gonna just repost what i said before because i really want to try and get all my ideas together, and to let anyone reading this to understand fully
Firstly, I believe that Kara inadvertantly led to the destruction of Earth; By arriving at Earth in her viper, she may have led some unknown force right to Earth, and after returning to the fleet, Earth was destroyed by this force. This would explain Kara’s role as the Harbinger of Death.
Secondly: All this has happened before and all of it will happen again
We’ve been hearing this phrase all throughout the series, and I think I have an idea about what it means in the scheme of things. To date, we have 12 cylon models, Nicky and Hera (a male and female hybrid), and now saul and six’s pure cylon child, bringing us to 13 Cylons and a male and female hybrid. There are 13 Lords of Kobol in the Pythia Prophecy. Now I believe that the 13 Lords of Kobol is a reference to the 13 Cylons. Furthermore, Nicky and Hera are the ‘Adam and Eve’ of “Gods new generation”…explaining why Hera is the ’shape of things to come’. Now I believe that it is a possibility that by the end of the series, everyone will die with the exception of the 13 cylons, hera and nicky, and they will settle on Earth. This would make Earth the new Kobol, the 13 models are the 13 Lords of Kobol, and Hera and Nicky will breed the next generation of tribes. If this is so, and it has happened before, this leads to the ultimate truth: Pure Humanity is extinct, and they exist now only as a mix between human and cylon. How much humanity remains depends on how many times ‘all this has happened before’. For example, if humanity was destroyed once before and were repopulated on Kobol, that means that everyone in the show is half cylon, and nicky and hera are more like 75% cylon. if it all happened before twice, nicky and hera are 87.5% cylon, and so forth. What is relevant is that if the theory is true, then humanity is extinct and the only lifeforms left are cylons and mostly cylon hybrids. Furthermore, if all the characters on the show die (with the exception of the cylons), battlestar will then give illusion to the storyline of the matrix, where humanity is being kept alive, but in a machine-controlled world, functioning as slaves. NEW UPDATE This would explain exactly Saul met Adama decades befor the attack..Reality is being controlled from a higher power.
Thirdly, Final cylon business: I have two theories. The first is to do with what we’ve been told about ruling people out: Ron Moore said that the final supper poster doesn’t contain the final cylon, which rules out (From left to Right), Roslin, Lee, Baltar, Kara, and Helo. To continue this line of elimination, D’annas words in the beginning of Revelation ‘Four…I want the four in your fleet..’ I know it has been brought up before and I don’t take credit for that idea, but this continues to eliminate some main characters, such as Gaeta, Dee, (note, if Dee is the final cylon, Rick Berman HAS in fact killed RDM and took over battlestar…Battlestar Voyager) Romo Lampkin…i’ll get right down to it…basically everyone in the main cast has been eliminated. Now, we have seen in the past two head characters who are not yet confirmed cylons (Baltar and Elosha), meaning that anyone can be a head character (which could goes back to my theory on how everyone is in fact, part cylon). Now a while back my friend brought this idea up, and I thought that it would have been really great, in fact, too great of an idea to seem possible..but now that all of these characters are eliminated, I believe that the list has been narrowed down enough to consider her…I believe the final cylon should be Kendra Shaw from Razor. It makes a lot of sense, since a) her realization would come at the bowels of terrible suffering (she beheld herself changing from a human being into a monstrous sinner), and she was crawling from the darkness into the light (she skulked through the halls of the basestar to where the hybrid was)..c) she wasn’t alive in the fleet to listen to the ‘All along the watchtower’ broadcast
Fourthly: Baltar. Well since everyone is a cylon, I think the higher power is software (lol). I believe it is an entity that just simply exists, to control, and I also believe that Baltar is one manifestation of the higher power. I’m sorry I’m really inarticulate with my thoughts, but think of him as the One from the matrix. A savior created for a purpose, which would explain his rallying everyone together to believe in the cylon god. There are alot of indicators toward this, or rather something similar to it; it would explain all of the phenomenal coincidences surrounding Baltars existence (the tyllium asteroid in season 1, his genius IQ, his amazing talent for attracting others as he does when he lived on the colonies being a celebrated scientist, when he ran for president, he existed with the cylons, and now after all of it, he has a religious following, not to mention his amazing rapport with the ladies…). Another idea is that if he is “God”, Caprica Six, whom I like to call red dress, is his angel.
I’ll keep updates as I consider them..
June 15th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
OTOH, I’d take with a pound of salt (and a whole case of tequila) anything Leoben said to Kara while he had her locked up and psychologically tortured on New Caprica. On one level, I think Leoben is totally and sincerely convinced that he is on a mission from God to force Kara Thrace to accept her destiny. (Though, if it’s already written why does anything he says or does make a blind bit of difference?) But the other stuff — say you love me (and mean it), but I’m going to bed now and hope you will join me? Uh-oh — doubt there’s anything sacred going on there.
But remember we have heard that line from a different Cylon — and in a very different context — than Kara Thrace. Back in the season one episode Bastille Day, there’s this exchange on Cylon-Occupied Caprica:
(Hat-tip Battlestarwiki for the text)
First, we’re talking about a rationale for genocide. And second, it’s bullshit. Where Starbuck is concerned, yes, she has used the abuse she suffered at the hands of her mother (and her guilt at abandoning her as she died of cancer alone) as an exuse to endlessly abuse herself and other. Lee — well, were do we begin on his daddy issues? But there’s a hell of a difference between becoming emotionally self-sufficient and being quite that literal minded about it all.
June 15th, 2008 at 9:36 pm
This isn’t a theory or anything, but did that scene where everyone is celebrating remind you guys of that scene from Star Trek: Voyager where the crew are celebrating the completion of the quantum slipstream drive, with confetti and all, but then it cuts to Voyager crashed on an icy planet? (good episode).
I’m not complaining or anything. I love both scenes and I love both series. It still reminded me of it, though. Makes me happy!
June 15th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
One of the best BSGs yet!
Kudos to Charles on the June13th 6:40pm post with the in depth analysis of the 10 most probable outcomes. But there is something I haven’t sen in the posts I’ve read. When D’Anna was unboxed she made this face like she was sensing something and made a comment like “they left it in”. I think she was talking about the restriction on talking about the F5.
And in both the most recent episodes, D’Anna hasn’t actually mentioned their names or identified them directly. Even when she introduced Tori, she didn’t spell it out.
Hmmmm….
So, even If she knows who the F5 are, I don’t think she can actually say their names without great effort. Maybe not at all.
And the whole apocalyptic Earth thing… I just don’t know what the Frak to say.
June 15th, 2008 at 9:54 pm
Oh, hey, did anyone else think that the final scene looked like a video version of some really lame (or awesome) band’s CD cover? All those people standing around with a white background, backed by a destroyed city? Kind of like the Joshua Tree cover from U2.
Here’s a little mockup I did
June 15th, 2008 at 9:55 pm
If the Link in my name didn’t work, here’s the URL:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/BOTSO/BSU2.png
June 15th, 2008 at 10:03 pm
Hi all, just finished watching revelations and a line in it caught my interest. It is the line in which D’Anna states that there are only four of the final five cylons in the fleet, this could mean two things 1. that the last cylon was already aboard the basestar but if so then y didnt they reveal them if they already have them. 2. that the character had already died in the series and hopefully been subsequently resurrected. now we know that we the audience have already seen the final cylon and now know that they arent in the fleet meaning they are on what is left of earth (i just hope this shows that the final five are more technologically more advanced than the other seven models). ok so now i have written up the list of possible suspects.
1. Billy – it has been stated, by Nat that he would have been a good cylon. But we already have tory so it just seems like a bit of a rip off yet with his intemate knowlege of the president (not sexual intemacy btw) he could be playing the strings from behind.
2.Ellen – it was never stated if she is or not a cylon by guias even tho ronald d moore has stated that she isnt one she still might be. just to torture tight a bit more.
3. Red headed suicide bommer – sorry i dont remeber his name, each of the other five have deminstrated a leadership or sacrifice toward the human course, tigh with the resistance, tyrol with the union, anders on caprica, tory with guias to some extent. this character had echoed throughout the third season, him being a cylon would not only disrupt tight and the others of the five, but the fleet as well as his sacrifice was the line that was crossed the big ice breaker in the new caprica story line.
4. Kat – this character has had a big impact on starbuck’s life, constantly butting heads but ultimately proving to be a positive influence in her life. Bringing her back would rock starbuck’s world it better god she has become a boring little miss do-goodder since the demetrius. But it also supports the first hybrids premonition that the last cylon comes from dark (drug addict and ppl muggler) into light (a well respected officer who sacrificed her life for others).
5. Cally – even though she is an irrotating windgy bitch (sorry i really dispise cally) she has always been the one to minipualte people, to dig her claws in to get her own way, which is very cylon kinda like six. bringing her back would make for a big tory/ cally showdown i just hope tory pimp slaps her again. the only downfall with this character was that she was in the fleet when the five were activated, and are now being drawn to the fifth cylon (on earth). unless she has got copies cos we dont know if the five have copies like six and eights or if they r like D’Anna where they r the only one.
i have probably forgotton alot of characters that could have been added to the list but i am sure u guys with think of some.
anyways ttyl
Jyadaha
June 15th, 2008 at 10:26 pm
I’ve noticed a lot of people felt the story line in this episode was rushed. I believe this can be explained by the fact that usually, the story progresses more slowly than it does on other shows. Usually, plots are resolved in a single one hour show. But Battlestar Galactica is not a one-hour show, it’s a 4 season tv event, and the plot won’t be resolved until the last episode airs. Like in any Stephen King novel, you wonder where the story is going for the most part, but there are chapters when you get a rush. That’s what happened last Friday.
One other thing, UNLESS BSG takes place in an alternate reality, life began here on Earth first, because it would mean that humans evolved on two separete planets, Earth and Kobol, and the 13th colony arrived sometime later and coexisted with humans already present on Earth, which would explain where the Greek got their gods from. If on the other hand life began on Earth, human then moved to kobol, and then to the Twelve Colonies, the destruction of Earth happeend recently, because, contrary to what we saw on Earth in revalations, there were no trace of radiation on Kobol and we didn’t see many man-made structures, which would implied that Humans left long ago. By the way, forget the Mars Theory simply because of the facts that the gravity on Mars is less important than on Earth, and Mars has two moons, Earth only has one. I believe Starbuck said that when she had been, it had one moon. Even if the constellations are a match, they wouldn’t be dumb enough to make that mistake. Unless the producers are, and that would be very surprising. Most of you picked the fact that D’anna said, if she wasn’t liyng, that the 5th wasn’t in the fleet, which means one of two things, the 5th was already on-board the basestar when she said that, or that the the 5th is already dead. “And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering.” What the hell does this mean? Matt’s theory of the torture scene with Baltar fits perfectly. But, “Still in shadow”: is it hiding, not knowing? “Will claw toward the light”: making sense of his or her own identity, clawing toward the light behind the doors of the opera house where Baltar and Six stand in the Roslin dream, the light of salvation? Hungering for redemption: for crimes committed, for eternal redemption that only God can give? “That will only come in the howl of terrible suffering”: physical suffering, psychological suffering, the realisation that redemption is far worse than no redemption? Who fits the profile? Remember D’anna knows who the 5th is, so it can’t be anyone she hasn’t met. Thankfully it means it can’t be Boxey!!!!
June 15th, 2008 at 10:28 pm
Craig – I forgot about the other quote from Bastille Day. So we’ve seen this theme of the child needing to come out of the shadow of their parents in all four seasons – and it’s not just Leoban (who is known for his mind-fraks)
First season/Bastille Day: “but parents have to die. It’s the only way children come into their own” – One of the Fives on why the cylons, the children of humanity, had to kill off the human race.
Second Season/”Home” What we need is something heartfelt, something human that will galvanize the people like a Son Denouncing his father” – Tom Zerek trying to get Lee to turn on his Father’s military rule.
Third season/The Son Also Rises: “There is no greater ally, no force more powerful, no enemy more resolved than a son who chooses to step from his father’s shadow” – Romo Lampkin
Fourth Season/Revelations: “Parents need to die in order for children to reach their full potential” – Leoban to Kara
June 15th, 2008 at 10:54 pm
I really hope that there are still some humans from earth alive. interaction between earthlings(us) and the colonials would be sooo cool. we here on earth would have no clue about the cylons, the colonial gods the cylon god, we would have no concept of the 13 tribes of man.
because i see the earth seen in the cliffhanger to be about 50 to 100 years from now in 2008. and that the destruction is a result from the coming nuclear war here on earth – World War 3 gone real bad. this means that the colonials are just 50 to 100 years too late to save us from ourselves.
i would love to see the colonials find survivors from the War. perhaps in Australia, where not as many nukes went off… or even better how good would it be if an International Space Station was still in orbit and the crew are the survivors. they were able to support them selves, because as is already starting to happen now, astro-biologist are growing plants in space. and so a self sustainable space station is in earth orbit and the astronauts on board are the survivors of earths devastating WW3.
And get this…the astronauts in the space station, the only surviving ‘humans’ from earth are five people that look exactly like Tigh, Anders, Tory, Chief Tyrol and the fifth (and we discover the fifth that way)…
…..just a thought i had…..
- Peter Mak
afterthought…… even a moon colony or pioneers on mars could be discovered by the colonials.
June 15th, 2008 at 11:06 pm
Actually the Charlton Heston line from planet of the Apes was the SECOND movie line that went through my head. The first was more along the lines of: “Earth-that-was could no longer sustain us, our numbers were so many, . . .”
There was a Firefly in the opening of the miniseries.
Each of the twelve humanoid cylons is supposed to represent a human archetype, but we’ve seen no perpetually cheerful cylon.
Thus the fifth of the final five is: Kaywinnit Lee Fyre.
June 15th, 2008 at 11:27 pm
My comment is short but possibly sweet. In last season’s cliffhanger, we saw Earth—I mean OUR Earth, with the North American continent right there for for easy viewing. In “Revelations”, we saw long shots of the planet twice……both times it was blue and cloudy, with some landmasses, but none of them recognizable. Is everyone making a huge mistake in assuming that the planet they landed on in “Revelations” was actually Earth??!? Couldn’t it just be some other planet that’s part of the yet-untold story of the members of the Thirteenth Colony?!?!
Yup, that popping sound you just heard was your mind blowing.
June 15th, 2008 at 11:28 pm
Seems there is a lot of options now as far as where they can go. The cylons were fine rebuilding on Caprica despite the nuclear fallout so it is at least partially habitable. Maybe the other planets are in a similar state. Kobol looked pretty fertile. New Caprica is still an option and the colonials have water, electricity and a hospital there.
Adama: “Well I only told you we would find earth. Mission Accomplished. Now that is done, everyone back to Galactica. We’ll flip a coin and one of us gets Kobol and one of us get New Caprica. Centurians can have Earth.”
Some filler ideas for BSGcast’s off season:
1. A theory episode. Everyone gets so many words to come up with a unified theory of BSG and their 5th cylon pick. The episode could discuss the best ideas. It would be interesting to go back after the season is over and see who got it right and who was way off.
2. A final five episode. Show all the characters and why or why not they might be a cylon.
3. Behind the scenes episode how BSGcast is made.
June 16th, 2008 at 12:04 am
I think as a fan it is important to list some or all of the important questions that I and the other fans need to have answered before the series wraps. Hopefully, the more questions that are written the more answers we will get. So in an effort to get the ball rolling; here are some obvious and not so obvious questions in no specific order that need to be explored (if you or anyone else can think of some more please add on):
1) WHO IS THE FINAL CYLON
2) Did Baltar heal that kid?
If so, does he have healing powers?
If so, then why?
3) What is the significance of the head sixes, baltars, ellens, cats, etc.?
4) What did Gaius mean when he told Gaeta “I know your secret” in the episode where Gaeta stabs Baltar
5) How did Kara come back from that explosion with a totally new viper?
6) How can Caprica Six and Tigh have a kid together (I thought Cylons could not have kids together)?—PS don’t you think Baltar should be jealous of this relationship.
7) WHERE IS THE CYLON HOMEWORLD?
June 16th, 2008 at 12:31 am
Here are some more questions:
9) What is the timeline that the series is set in?
10) Will the other cylons (Cavil, Simon, Doral, Boomer) continue the confrontation with the other cylons and also try to find Earth?
11) Who is now on Caprica?
12) Will there be a new beginning on Caprica?
13) What is the general history of the original colonies; Earth; the 12 Olympians; etc.? I think it would be interesting if they filmed a backstory relating this information to help people keep it straight.
14) Is Earth habitable?
15) Will they settle and rebuild on Earth?
16) What is the deal with Tyrol’s kid?
17) Why don’t they use Hera’s blood to heal other people including Roslin (again)?
18) What is the truth about the opera house?
19) Why and how did Boomer and Cavil get together?
20) Will Roslin finally die?
21) Will Apollo and Starbuck get together?
22) Will all of the major characters make it through alive when the series wraps?
23) Will the fleet find out from Roslin about Gaius’ betrayal of the colonies ?
24) Where will the final four cylons call home (the fleet or the basestar)?
25) What is the significance of: “this has all happened before, and this will all happen again?”
26) What did the prophecy “Kara Thrace you are the harbinger of death” mean?—Humanity will die, you find death, you bring death, you are death, you flee death…IDK?
Well I guess that is enough for now. If I think of anymore I will post again. Hopefully, RDM will get a hold of this list somehow and he can attempt to answer all these buring questions for me in some way or another.
PS–If anyone knows any of these answers definitively please let me know, maybe I missed something…or if you just want to speculate that is welcome as well. Please also post more questions if you think of any.
June 16th, 2008 at 12:32 am
Something bothering me…
In Razor when young Adama is talking to the guy trapped behind the door it’s Leoben and the little girl beside him looks an awful lot like the little girl they got to play child Kara…with this information…
My Call is that the 5th Cylon is going to be Kara’s Father. He’s going to be discovered living in a bunker on earth as a result of self exile. He will be the one that reveals to the Colonials How the Cylon found their way to earth 40 years ago etc…He’s living in darkness and shadows looking for redemption.
(My Atlantis Theory still stands check out the post back under bsgcast top 10 ep)
June 16th, 2008 at 12:36 am
RDM wanted us to see Earth at the end of series 3 so he puts in a planet with North America. Nowsome people see something that could be a bridge and say it’s New York.
You’re all jumping to the wrong conclusion. RDM had a problem with showing Earth at the end of season 3 because the Americans would not be able to recognise anything but a picture of America.
So, given the poor perception of the average American’s geography (a correct view, in my experience) – why would it be Brooklyn Bridge, Tower Bridge or any X Bridge? Some people are being very simplistic here.
I worry that there’s not enough time to find another Earth, but there again the end of Revelations was very quick. “Hey look Earth is just over there, let’s go!”
It doesn’t fit into Kara’s trip to Earth, what with tasting it and it being green etc. We saw no continents on the way in, no familiar moon. It’s not Earth or it’s an alternate Earth.
Oh and a safety note for everyone out there = If you think it’s radioactive, it’s dangerous, don’t touch.
June 16th, 2008 at 12:44 am
Just thought of some more:
27) Who orchestrated the Cylon war on the colonies?
Was it a group decision or the cylon god or the final five or the final one?
28) How come only the final 4 out of 5 can here the music?
29) Where is the music coming from and how did it come about?
30) Is there some grand scheme being orchestrated by a higher power or just the final cylon?
31) If the colonists are our ancestors then what happened to our advanced technology (i.e. space travel)?
32) How did the stories of Earth get back to Caprica, Kobol, etc.?
June 16th, 2008 at 1:29 am
after reading a lot of these posts, i kept coming back to kara being the cause of this destroyed earth. my only problem with that is that the hybrid on the rebel baseship told her that she would lead them to their end. would being the key word, meaning it didn’t happen yet. this was of course, after her return from earth initially.
June 16th, 2008 at 1:46 am
Oh, kudos to BSGCast and Galacticast – I’ve analysed the fragments of the new music and I have scientifically proved that it is a reverse play of “MM Bop”. Art imitates Art.
The new music – I thought it was going to announce the final cylon. Aparently it meant go down the hanger. Not that fantastic really. It turns out that the Pristine Viper was really a long ranged Gieger Counter. I wonder if it’s still pointing at “Earth”?
I do have a problem with the “Final 5 have already been to Earth”. Only Kara has apparently got anywhere near it………
June 16th, 2008 at 3:19 am
>> Scanner Says:
>> June 15th, 2008 at 7:20 pm
>>
>> What would really get everyones goat here, if that last scene of them jumping to “Earth” and finding it in ruins is actually someones dream ,
>> or vision and we see them wake from it sweating in the next episode, much like the dram sequence in Dallas. For some reason,
>> I can totally see that happening.
Dude,
I hate to rain on yer parade, but… I just saw the Eipsode 11 Promo and it seems to be pretty “real” that they ended up on a nuked planet. No dreams here. It looks like it’s going to get pretty thick in the coming episodes – in the promo we see that some one has died… someone very important to Bill Adama. That could be a number of people: Lee, Kara, Roslin, Saul…
33) what did they actually do to Kara when she was being “treated” by Simon? Implant something? Re-wire something?
34) head-characters I can go with (imaginary friends are quite common), but why is it that humans/cylons can evidently hook into each others dreams?
35) we still have no further indications of why Six and Baltar thought of the first Human-Cylon baby as “their” child ( “Home Part II”)
36) Is Baltar really Human? Why does Head-Six tell him that he is not “one of them” (referring to humans) and never was.
I feel that in all of its brilliance, the show has left us with a few loose-ends that seemed very important at the time of their appearance, but for some reason have just been left “untouched”. Still quite a few episodes to go – let’s hope they use the time well and tie up all the loose-ends nicely…
One last thing:
My hat goes off to Bear McCreary for once again delivering a score which completely captures the entire mood and feeling of the Galactica series – especially in this last episode.
Cheers,
Ripley
June 16th, 2008 at 5:29 am
Key points:
When Lee was sitting in the viper he said,”It’s a colonial emergency beacon, so what……”. The signal was a colonial signal from some time in the future. I believe this is a vision of things to come. There is a higher power that wants things to change between the two warring races. Kara said that something wants the Humans and Cylons to find Earth together. Whether it is the beings of light or God, this is Earth after the Fleet has arrived and met the people of earth. Then the cylons showed up and a war broke out. Just like the original series, they find earth but have to do battle with the pursuing cylons. Could this go down the same?
June 16th, 2008 at 7:50 am
You know and I apologize if this has been mentioned before, but what if the fallin leader was not human but a cylon? What if Natalie was the fallen leader? We always assume that the BSG scriptures refer exclusivly to humans. Why not Cylons as well?
“You are the harbinger of death, Kara Thrace. You will lead them all to their end.” What if this means that Kara provides the link between humans and cylons which allows the destruction of the hub abd introduces a final death to the cylons. Also Kara leads the fleet to it’s “end” mission. They found Earth. One question, why is the hybrid so generous with information to the humans. Its supposed enemy?
Also you know they are going to have a whole episode devoted to finding the “colonial emergency beacon” which lead them to Earth. Was it Kara’s ship from season 3 or somthing else? I am going for Kara’s ship.
June 16th, 2008 at 8:20 am
Pavlov’s God wrote:
OK, that’s really interesting but I still think Kara has ever so slightly missed the point, as only Kara can.
In a sense, both Lee and Kara’s search for substitutes for unsatisfactory parental figures just binds them even closer to the shadows of Socrata Thrace and William Adama. It’s a micro version of the Cylons great self-deception — that their attempted genocide of the human race was justified because humanity is flawed, violent, sinful. You don’t reach your full potential by destroying what you fear, but by understanding and transcending it. It’s called growing up.
There’s a lovely passage from the end of Tom Stoppard’s play The Coast of Utopia that comes to mind:
June 16th, 2008 at 9:22 am
Awesome posts all around and in such a short time period. Good luck Matt+Nat. I dont envy you at all right now. lol.
You know now that Six is pregnant, wouldn’t that mean another round of Fetal Cylon Blood cure for the Roslin. It would prolong her life alittle longer at least until it wears off again. I wonder why Doc. Cottle hasn’t thought of that. Since he was the one to tell Adama about both the President’s deteriation and Six being pregnant at the same time. You’d think he would have put them both together. Oh well.
It was pretty funny to see Lee’s mini strip dance at the CIC when they got to Earth. I was like woah buddy. Either ease up or start charging for that performance.
June 16th, 2008 at 9:23 am
I am sure many of you picked up on this, but the promo for next season shows a hand touching somthing. I bet that is Kara Thrace’s viper! It would be burnt to a crisp traveling thru the nebula as it did.
Also in the last scene. There are 15 people shown. Of the 15, 8 are known cylons. #3, Sharon, Anders, Tory, Chief Tyrol, Six, Saul Tigh and Leoban. The known humans, Adm Adama, Rosalyn, Helo, Lee Adama, Baltar, Dualla and Kara Thrace. The new face of humanity.
Also note that the division with the Cylons which I think is funny. All the ladies plus one guy (Leoban) is on one side. Leaving nothing but men on the other. Cavil, Simon and Doral. Except for the one renegade #8 model.
June 16th, 2008 at 9:34 am
I have a couple of off the beaten path questions here…
- Why is the book on Adama’s desk a traditional earth type book with square edges rather than the Colonial shaped books with the slanted edges? Is this a mistake in the props department? I don’t think so because the other ones stacked on the desk are slanty ones but the one that is open is a regular book. What is it that Adama is reading? Even the pythia book that Lee is reading only has a very small slant on it, it could almost be mistaken for a volume from earth.
- Why do the viper pilots that are being herded by the eight and the centurians refer to the eight as “boomer”?
June 16th, 2008 at 9:45 am
I am a bit late with my comments on this episode but I only need to say one thing:
LOVED IT! It was a pretty intense episode… and I know an episode is great when I watch it ten times and still feel the tension.
Oh, and great music by McCreary and Tyrol is the new Fonzie.
June 16th, 2008 at 10:12 am
Malcolm Says:
@Tootie. Kobol is still intact… they just left it because there was a high chance of cylon attack. You’re thinking of the ‘Temple of the Five’ planet/system.
Ummm, sorry. Mind was in a haze after recently watching ‘Revelations.’ HOW EMBARRASSING!
Tootie
June 16th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
Hey everyone… sorry for the ad but I just uploaded my second video dedicated to this season and hoped some of you would check it out… maybe comment on it… rate it… love me.
I completed the first one after episodes 1-5:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErVeUrxhmLw
And now… 6-10:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCLTtNrSKt8
Yes, the second is a long one… 9 minutes. Sorry about that. But there was much to cover, whereas 1-5 were easily covered in a few minutes.
June 16th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
Hey everyone… sorry for the ad but I just uploaded my second video dedicated to this season and hoped some of you would check it out… maybe comment on it… rate it… love me.
This one is episodes 6-10 (the previous was, of course, 1-5).
Just click on my name and go to a magical place.
Thank you.
June 16th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
TighFighter said:
RebelBaseship= Ship of Lights
Head Elosha=Beings of Light group
Head Six/Baltar= Count Iblis
Head Leoben= Being of Light John
TighFighter, but what about the Ship of Lights that Kara Thrace came back in? it’d make sense…. *spoiler* Considering hers is left to dust and so messed up. How exactly would you throw that in? I loved your theory and thought it was most definitely informative and very well through out. My only draw back was that the RebelBaseship isn’t the SOL in my opinion, the Returned Kara Thrace Viper is the SOL and the thus why it received the beacon….?
June 16th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
One last thought……What if the 5th Cylon was with Cavil’s Fleet? This would explain why D’anna only asked for the 4 cylons in the fleet and would allow the other Cylons (Cail’s) to also find Earth.
June 16th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
The Final 5 is one Diana knows is not in the fleet. She knows the face and location. That puts him on the baseship or some one she have met before. Final Cylon = (Pepole D’anna knows) – ((Pepole in the fleet) + (Pepole eliminated by other rules))
What is Eart Humans created Cylon like machines and they rebeld they had a big fight that ended whit a peace treaty on kobol. This is where the humanoyd cylons comme from at least the final 5. The first cylons and humans vent to the colonies and forgot about where they camefrom. Time vent on and the first cylons and humans now living on the colonies created the new Cylons. They rebeled and what hapend before is happning again. So in a way they are all Cylons the first and the second generatio.
It all started whit skynet on earth
June 16th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Unfortunately, I think the 5th Cylon is Baltar.
1- D’anna said the 5th wasn’t in the fleet at that moment;
2- D’anna was very concerned about Baltar’s condition when she arrived at the Baseship (The Hub);
3- She paid more attention to Baltar’s claims than Tory’s during the crisis;
4- She invited Adama to return to Galactica. So, I think she intended to keep the 5th Cylon in the Baseship;
5- I´d discard Helo because Hera wouldn’t be the first hybrid (Human/Cylon); and
6- I’d discard Roslin because she was already discarded by D’anna and she is the dying leader.
I’d like to be wrong. Baltar is the most human character in the show! But… There are those evidences.
June 16th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
24601, I actually never even considered that. I mean, we know that at least some baseships have human prisoners aboard, ala Daniel Novachek, so why couldn’t the last cylon be a prisoner with Cavil? be quite a plot twist and an awesome battle what with Galactica and rebel baseship (which they need to give a name to) facing off against Cavil’s gang
June 16th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
“This wasn’t only about Lee finally stepping out of his father’s shadow, but stepping up to be a true leader. And that’s not just about having a job title, or nuclear launch keys, or giving an order to throw someone out an airlock. Real leadership is also about compassion, empathy and LOVE.”
Craig Ranapia, I like the way you roll baby. I agree with you about Lee and to add to all you said he has developed grace. You know both Baltar and Zarek thought they could do Laura’s job…and what a mess they made of it. The only person I can see doing that job and doing it well is Lee and it was nice to see Laura give him credit. The thing about Lee is he is also capable of doing his father’s job if need be. It seems that they are grooming Kara for that role.
In postings related to other topics I like your thoughts on choice. Great job.
June 16th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Couple more observations… I love the set of Adama’s jaw and the hard look in his eye when he spills the radioactive soil out of his hand. It’s a good thing he’d already gotten the breakdown out of his system.
Tyrol does a lot of smiling to himself and smirking in this episode – including on earth when everyone else is devestated. He shakes his head, but his grin still seems pretty out of place.
Come to think of it – none of the Final cylons are celebrating that they’ve reached earth. Tyrol’s hanging out alone with the kid. Tigh’s getting drunk. Anders is watching Kara to gauge her reactions, and not joining in the celebrations either. That I can recall, we don’t see Tory at all. And we see Hera’s five-mile creepy stare that her parents are oblivious to in their cheering. Did these folks know, maybe even on a subconcious level, what was waiting on the planet surface?
June 16th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
jinx303- Come to think of it – none of the Final cylons are celebrating that they’ve reached earth. Tyrol’s hanging out alone with the kid. Tigh’s getting drunk. Anders is watching Kara to gauge her reactions, and not joining in the celebrations either. That I can recall, we don’t see Tory at all. And we see Hera’s five-mile creepy stare that her parents are oblivious to in their cheering. Did these folks know, maybe even on a subconcious level, what was waiting on the planet surface?
It’s possible that the final 4 cylons are the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse. Perhaps they had some hand in the destruction of earth. Even if they don’t remember it. If this is even Earth at all. Could be Mars.
June 16th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
The cylons can really feel and love. Its nice to see six reaching for Tie at the end of the episode.
June 16th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
Just read this on the SciFi channel web site:
12:00 AM, 16-JUNE-08
Battlestar Finale Updated
SCI FI Channel is unable to confirm a report in the Chicago Tribune that the final part of Battlestar Galactica’s last season will expand or that the finale of the series is expected to be three hours long.
The channel will only say that the finale, written by series creator Ronald D. Moore, extends beyond the time allotted for the episode.
The channel is currently exploring how to shoot the extra footage as Moore has envisioned and written it. No premiere date has been announced yet for the start of the second half of the fourth and final season.
June 16th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
off topic but has anyone seen the BSG toaster that’s being sold at the san diego comic-con? http://www.nbcuniversalstore.com/?v=nbc_the-office_comic-con
think i’ll have to get one for the gf…..it’s limited quantities even
June 16th, 2008 at 6:43 pm
Jinx303 wrote:
You think? I don’t think Bill Adama is anywhere near the end of his ride on the Crazy Express. I just don’t buy that after all he’s been through with Saul Tigh over decades, he’s just going to shake this off quite that easily. How many times can any human being have the rug pulled out from under them without something breaking for good? I know I’m putting this well, but Bill Adama strikes me as the kind of man who has deep reserves of emotion, but the way he’s chosen to function is by bringing an equally ferocious discipline to it. And going back to the mini-series, what does he have to show for it — frak all. A first marriage that made the Tighs look healthy (and in a throw-away line from Lee, we find out she’s moved on and is remarrying), one son is dead (and one level, I think he blames himself for that as much as Lee does), and the other hates his guts. The career he dedicated his life to — well, he’s on the verge of retirement, and he’s a Commander baby-sitting a floating museum. And then the world ended.
And here we are — His best friend is a Cylon, and lied to him about that little info McNugget even while he was handing over command of the fleet. Earth, whose existence he slowly and painfully came to believe in, is a radioactive ash heap. And, much as I hate to say this, I really hope there is no happy ending for him and Laura Roslin. It would just be a “Mr Gaeta, spin up the FTL drives to jump the shark” moment if Roslin got another deus ex machina reprieve. IMNSHO, it would be a cheap cop-out that dishonours both the character and Mary McDonnell. Choice and consequence, folks. Back in season one, Laura decided to ‘play the religion card’ and divide the fleet on the basis of a drug-fuelled vision of prophecy. Well, Laura, if you want to play the prophet you also pay the price.
Again, not sure I’m totally with you on that one Jinx. It seems to me that Tyrol was always going to be the one who was going to have the hardest time adjusting to his Cylon-icity. Remember LDYB, when he almost beat his (late) wife to death while in a psychotic fuge? What was he dreaming about — committing suicide, because of his fear that he was a Cylon. At least, that’s what got dug up in that rather odd ‘religious counselling’ session with Brother Cavil.
Fast forward two years, and Calley committs suicide (though I’m not sure he really believes that). How does that not frak with your head? It seemed to me that this episode, he just doesn’t care anymore. He’s been ‘outed’ as one of the Penultimate Four. Why should he give a frak — even if he gets airlocked, at least he doesn’t have to pretend anymore. Earth a radioactive tomb for all our hopes and dreams — well, it must be comforting having your surroundings match your soul.
Here’s my prediction for the back ten: Boomer shows up, somehow she finds out that Tory killed the late Mrs Tyroll and sees her chance to get back the love of her life (and a ready-made child), and the life Athena ’stole’ from her. Large amounts of faecal matter hits the rotary air circulation device, and one or more of this trio are not going to be in the series finale.
Well, I guess when you’ve been ‘outed’ as Cylons, almost flushed out a launch tube and started hearing that fraking music again (which didn’t really work out that well the first time) you’d be forgiven for not exactly being in a party mood. So far, all their energies have been focused on hiding their identities as Cylons. Well, what do they do now? It’s easy for Tory — she’s totally embraced her nature. She’s a Cylon, and she’s pretty much told Roslin (the only long-term relationship she’s had on the show) to go get fraked. Things are a little more complicated for the other three.
June 16th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
Awww… spare my blushes, Rolling Hard Six.
And I just remembered the deathbed letter Roslin left Baltar in Epiphanies:
Nothing there that’s untrue, but it’s a rather bitter irony that in The Hub, Head-Elosha has to give Roslin an even more brutal ethical reality check, while she’s committing cold blooded murder:
June 16th, 2008 at 7:05 pm
I’ve Got it!
The colonial beacon that can only be detected from Kara’s viper is from a communications buoy left by the Battlestar Prometheus! The Viper is new because the Prometheus has manufacturing facilities on board and just maybe the planet they’re on isn’t Earth but rather… (wait for it)… Terra.
On a totally different note: In the ruined city, there was a dome that resembled the illustration in the colonials’ scrolls. It sort of looked like the Haia Sophia in Istanbul. That would be terrific because that specific building has been at different times a Catholic Church and a Moslem Mosque. And I remember D’Anna saying in a previous season that “there is no god bot God.”
June 16th, 2008 at 7:07 pm
Great Episode (and great site) I thought it an interesting way to end the half season, and drive us all crazy speculating for six months.
It did feel a bit rushed but I think that was done to fit in the second half. The effects were great and this is certainly one of the best episode of the entire series (top 10 for me) so far.
I hope these last episodes are worth the wait…
Speculation:
This may have been mentioned and discussed before but since it was not clear who the fifth cylon was, do we not already know??? Since Col. Tigh and the six model he impregnated are BOTH CYLONS would there child not be A FULL CYLON? It by definition MUST BE. Hera (sp?) and Nick are both half human but since TIGH and Six are full cylons, would there child not COUNT AS NUMBER 12 (or 7, 9, 10, 11 depending on which number is not taken)??? After all not being born may count as not being in the fleet.
Or is there child an unmentioned number 13?
June 16th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
ups… “there is no god but God” Although ‘bot God’ does have a cylon feel to it.
June 16th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
FromEarth has, what we like to call down here in Mexico, a good good point.
June 16th, 2008 at 7:33 pm
why does everyone keep going back to Hera as the 5th cylon? unless she grew a full 4 ft there’s no way she was one of the final five D’anna saw. also, D’anna clearly said there were only 4 of the final 5 in the fleet, which means the 5th is on earth somewhere or it’s someone that died in a previous episode and will come back somehow.
June 16th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
Ok, so I’m the Admiral or the President, and I’m thinking “Hey, this sucks, earth’s a wasteland, can’t live here. But now were buddies with half of the cylons, and they could be buddies and help us restart civilization. Where could we go that is a nice place to live…. Kobol didn’t seem that great, kind of cursed, a little too much like vancouver. Wait, last time we saw Caprica the radiation was clearing up. Looked alot better than this earth place does. Buildings still intact. Cylons cleaned the place up. No bodies. Nice buildings. We can find our old houses…. Why not recolonize the twelve colonies?”
Not likely, but just a thought.
June 17th, 2008 at 12:50 am
Gaseous
The reason people keep coming back to the cylon children as possibilities for the fifth cylon is that while you are right in saying that in their current “form” they are too short, it is possible that in the temple they would appear as an adult or if they resurrect by entering the next generation of humans (or cylons) as a baby then their old form remains in the temple until they reach adulthood.
Related to this we still do not know for certain that D’anna saw the penultimate four as they physically appear now in the temple, as it is possible they appeared younger or older, or physically whole in the temple (i.e. TIgh still had two eyes)
Moving on to the question of why do they not go back to the colonies IIRC while the cylons were clearing up and reconstructing the physical damage the planets are still radioactive (at least in most parts) and so would not be suitable for resettlement
June 17th, 2008 at 1:19 am
RE:
Baltar and 6 taking away Hera?
It’s not 6 and Baltar taking away Hera from the Opera House.
It’s the Head Baltar and Head Six Taking Hera out of the Opera House…
Opera House = Life
The room they enter is a room of light outside of the Opera House…Death? Hera is in mortal danger because she is so coveted by both…well 3 maybe four sides now that Baltar has had that conversation with the Centurion.
So Sharon killing Natalie was totally uncalled for.
June 17th, 2008 at 4:20 am
I think the final cylon could be… well, let me first say that the only possibilities are someone who was on the basestar with Three, or someone not anywhere near the fleet.
So, if it is someone nowhere near the fleet, then it could be someone who has “died.” Two of our male final five’s have wives who are dead. Maybe one of them… but I doubt it. It is either someone we have not met… or someone on the basestar. I think the two obvious ones are Baltar and Roslin. Too obvious I say. So then who could it be? Well, the one person NO ONE will ever think of.. the one person everyone says cannot in any way be a cylon… I think, is the cylon.
Who?
Helo. “WHAT?!” you say. “But there is no way! He is Athena’s husband and it would mean their baby is not a hybrid and not special and it means the whole cure for Roslin is a plot hole!” Ahhhh… does it? We still have no clue what the Final Five are. As Tigh pointed out in the latest episode, there are cylons who age, lose hair, and such things. So, the Final Five may very well be higher humans. Hell, the cylons may be some form of higher human… but mechanically designed by the Final Five.
In any event, the most human characters, Tigh, Anders, and Tyrol, have all ended up as cylons… well, or the Final Five (whatever that means). Well, the only so-human-he-is-too-human character is Helo. He is the most righteous character on the show and wouldn’t it reason that he would be the leader of the F5? He does everything the righteous way. He loves a cylon (God loves his own creations), has procreated with one (God sure would do such a thing), and he refused to allow the humans to exterminate the cylons when they had the chance. He has been there through almost every major decision or action and he has always kept the humans from doing something that would strip away their humanity, while also keeping cylons and humans on the righteous path whenever possible.
He is loyal but will always lead with his soul… he will refuse an order if he believes it is wrong, but follow an order even when he knows it is wrong when he knows it will lead to a desired effect. By taking Three to see Roslin, he allowed mistrust to grow from the cylons, and it forced the confrontation that exposed the four, and eventually put them all on Earth. I am sure if we break it down more, we will find that he has always been the one pushing the buttons. Always in a position of power. Always controlling both sides, or putting his four in positions to do so.
I think Helo is not just the final cylon… he is the cylon God… and the cylon God is… simply… God of all living things.
(I may be wrong about that last part)
June 17th, 2008 at 5:55 am
damm you matt en nat :d
June 17th, 2008 at 6:00 am
Hi folks,
I can’t begin to imagine why the idea that “the final-final yet to be revealed is a dead person” is so popular. What sense would that make? The five together are supposed to be in some way useful. What indication has there been, that the final-final is perhaps a character which has passed-on? That’s like buying a smoking-addict (who happens to be stuck on an island) a pack of cigarettes with no matches or lighter. I know, I know. Now some of you lot are going to say “yeah, but what if it was – like – Caine, and she resurrected” (repeat this line with any dead character for as long as you like). My Answer – then at one of the other seven Cylon models would know. To our knowledge, humanoid cylons are always in company when they resurrect.
And then there is another popular idea floating around, that the final-final will be someone we have not yet seen. Now we must, of course, assume that D’Anna has seen many, many faces that “we” have not yet been exposed to from the storyteller’s perspective that the cameras allow us. But as story-telling goes, it would make sense for all of the final five to be characters with which we are already aquainted. Their actions up to the point of being revealed will, at that time, finally make sense and things will fall into place. Why would the creators of the series want to hit us with some unknown face all the way at the end without giving us a lead-in? I’d scratch that idea as well as the dead character.
Another one I can’t bear to hear/read again: the final-final is a humanoid cylon we have already become aquainted with. Rubbish. There are twelve humanoid models – period. Do the math (of course not counting the two different centurion models we have encountered in the reimagined series thusfar and the raiders who are “entities” in their own right and not empty ships which get flown by other cylons).
The creators, producres, writers, directors, etc. of this show have worked extremely hard to give us a story which is not some run-of-the-mill tv-show. They have shown that they are truly masters of the art of good story-telling and I am sure everyone will agree with this statement. So why – in (the) God(’)s name would they do something which does not comply with the rules of good storytelling so far down the road? At this point, as far as the story has advanced, have to stick to what we (the audience) know to build the rest of the story. So what do we k n o w (not just what can we speculate)?
1. D’Anna has seen all the faces b e f o r e (not just in the vision/temple for the first time)
2. She is apparantly “slightly shocked” as she apologizes to one of them (presumably Tigh because they beat the *bleep* out of him on New Caprica, not knowing he was one of them)
3. During “Revelations” the final-final was not on board one of the fleet vessels
4. The final-final must have some type of “high-profile”, at least from her perspektive, otherwise D’Anna would not have easily recognised and remembered the N a m e s and F a c e s of the five as well as the fact that the final-final was not on a fleet vessel…
5. …hence the very obvious indication that D’Anna (at the moment she said that there were only four in the fleet) knew the whereabout of the final-final
…which would then lead us to speculate on things using common-sense and a good sense of storytelling, giving the writers the benefit of the doubt that they know what they are doing.
See you guys around,
Ripley
*ducking for cover*
June 17th, 2008 at 7:02 am
Final Cylon? I’m still pretty sure it’s Kendra Shaw!
Which means now it’s Hera… think about it…
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~Matt
PS. Anyone else seeing that random grey block??
June 17th, 2008 at 7:59 am
Hey there again,
I’m hooked. Can’t get the monkey off my back. I need to get away from the computer for a few hours to keep me from researching into the whole underlying storyline – but before I do:
Read this exceprt from the babblings of the original Hybrid in “Razor”:
“Soon there will be four, glorious in awakening, struggling with the knowledge of their true selves. The pain of revelation bringing new clarity and in the midst of confusion, he will find her. Enemies brought together by impossible longing. Enemies now joined as one. The way forward at once unthinkable, yet inevitable. And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering.”
The first 5 lines have all come to pass as it is written above. No speculation, no wild guessing, no what if’s, period. That’s the straight dope right there. The last line…. if you ask me, that last line is strictly Baltar, man. Remember: head six told him he was not like the humans. He was the “chosen one”. He most certainly needs redemption…
Another thing:
the whole Lords-of-Kobol-Opera-House-Temple-of-Five-13th-Tribe-thingy has happened WAY before the events in the series. Thousands of years before… So if you ask me – someone has obviously given the cylons much more information than the humans of the 12 colonies have been privy to. Why would that be? When all of the Lords-of-Kobol-Opera-House-Temple-of-Five-13th-Tribe-stuff happened, there were no cylons. So someone who was around or had the goings-on of the Lords-of-Kobol-Opera-House-Temple-of-Five-13th-Tribe-era relayed to them in some way (handed down over generations) was out there when the cylons withdrew to some nondisclosed location to regroup and rebuild. What the heck is he saying?
What I mean is this:
The Cylons went into hiding for some 40 years. In which time they created new models – likenesses of their enemy – that exhibit the same traits they were sworn to destroy? For what? They didn’t like the idea of being “slaves” to the human race, yet in their self-orchestrated evolution they build models that look and act human and put these “in charge”, as “masters” of the “lowly” Centurions and Raiders… My guess is that in their seclusion, the Cylons somehow came into contact with members of the 13th Tribe. This party gave the cylons information on their whereabouts, how they got there, the significance of past places and events , etc. Appearing god-like to the cylons, this party and their stories served as the basis for the conception and programming of the 12 humanoid models. The “Party” made it clear that the cylons were not to seek them on their home-world (presumably earth) – only five of the humanoid models and the first hybrid model were given the crucial information and then everyone got a mental enima to keep the secret safely tucked away.
Why else would the hybrid know so much? Assuming the whole theological, mystical side of things plays less of a role in shaping events and that things in the BSG-Universe can be explained with pure science, it could not have been any other way. The events which traverse at the time of the series could not have been “predicted” or foretold as such as they are way to far in the future. Scriptures are scriptures. If some members of the old civilization indeed managed to find a new home on earth, it would not be hard to imagine them taking the “old religion” with them. Now jump 4,000 years into the future. Their religion has become somewhat different than what they originally took with them from back in the day. This is not uncommon. For example, there are groups living in Romania that came from Germany hundreds of years before. The language they speak is not the same as the common german dialect, although both are german at their very foundation and identifiable as such. Hundreds of years of separation have produced two stands of the same language. So the 13th tribe did a variation on the old religion – I mean, in 4000 years they had time to do it in a way that was not abrupt. Instead of a number of gods, they now pray to just one. Many of the stories from the old scriptures remain unchanged, giving us the connections between the two that seem so erie to us now – like the opera house, temple of five, and so on. Everthing else is a matter of who passed on what information to whom.
Obviously the memebrs of the 13th tribe not only gave information to the cylons, but to the humans as well. Why else would the 12 Colonies have the names of the Zodiac? Why else do the Lords of Kobol and figures in Greek Mythology have the same names?
So why did I say that the Cylons have been given mor information than the humans?
Well, the 13th tribe made for earth, somehow sent word back to their originating civilisation and the cylons – appearing to both god-like. The humans adopt much of what they learn from the 13th tribe as part of their religion and the cylons are told parts that give them more hints as to where to find the 13th tribe. The cylons believe that the Lords of Kobol are “false gods”. And why not? These Lords of Kobol and the artefacts they leave behind were most certainly real. But were they really gods. Why woould gods live on the same planet as their “children”? How about this: The lords of Kobol were, well, Lords. At some point something went sour and a group of separatists made off to another world. After arriving at this new wolrd, they relay what has traversed and leave little hints and pointers scattered throuught the Galaxy (we MUST assume this all takes place within the same Galaxy – anything else would be toooo far fetched.). All of this has happened so long ago that it gets written down in sacred scrolls and is believed to be more of a religious nature than any thing else. Look at what’s happening here on the earth. Just because a few religions have managed to gain more followers than others, doesn’t change the fact that all religions orignated as a way to explain the unexplainable.
But I’m rambling. I’m really looking foward to seeing how they tie all this up in one tidy package with no left over screws…
Cheers,
Ripley
June 17th, 2008 at 8:35 am
wat up peeps
been reading for months and was just shown how to comment.(thanks matt) i have a few comments so please bear with me.
1. the fith cylon is a centurian. why? because there had to be an original model that became selfaware. probably one used to logg the thirteenth colony’s journey. then sent back to the twelve colonies. the ony way to truely get the essence of their journey would be to remove it’s falik inhibiter. no one really knows when humans created cylons. right now we are looking at at least 100 years of smart cylons within the colonials. it would make sence if kobol was advanced enough for deep space travel, their robotics had to be somewhat advanced way over 1000 years ago. that first cylon planted the seeds of rebellion thru it’s logic. there is a saying in the music business ” every singer wants to be an actor and every actor wants to be a singer”. logic dictates to truely understand something you must become it. maybe a centurian was downloaded with data from the thirteenth colony a couple of centuries ago and with it’s inhibiter in place could not process their journey because the human perspective. these
twelve models are it’s way to process humanity, and when it does it will be downloaded into all centurians. that centurian is on that baseship watching and processing. that centurian can speek but have no need to yet. we all think centurians are doing the skinjobs bidding but it’s the other way around. that is why” all this has happened before and will happen again”. it is machine logic. this is a twisted form of program debugging from the first centurian and it is in a loop. that is why it is ” hiding in the shadows”.
2.six is pregnant by baltar not tigh. head six has been pining for a kid for three years and she has always told baltar that THEIR CHILD would be
born on galactica. baltar and caprica six were frakking like rabbits on that baseship. and keep in mind head six is a version of caprica six. look at how much baltar has changed in 3yrs. he’s still a ho but his is no longer that creepy pervy uncle you don’t want your kids around at family gatherings. he is actually capable of selfless acts now and thinks about the wellfare of others. he could actually be daddy material.
3. that is not earth.
in the original series, the fleet came across numerous human inhabited planets. they were decendents of stragglers from the 13th, the most advances being the terrans and the eastern alliance. they both were nuke capable and almost wiped each other out, but was stoped by apollo
and galactica with the help of the beings of light. sence apollo is with the fleet in this version, none of that happened. i bet this planet will be terra was a pitstop just like the algea planet was. this time humans could stay and live just like at new caprica. some stayed and the rest continued on just like the colonials. most likely nuclear war did break out this time and they both lost. but there will be a secret stash someplace at the oprahouse on terra with the final directions. “a dying leader will know the tru secrets of the oprahouse”. we also call ourselves terrans.
anyway
those are my thoughts.
June 17th, 2008 at 8:50 am
Hi Matt+Nat
your made you own cliffhanger.
Can’t wait ’til next week.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:12 am
I guess I see your point. this reinforces everyone’s theory that Kendra Shaw is the 5th cylon.
damn. *blows adm cain as the 5th cylon theory out nearest airlock*
June 17th, 2008 at 9:47 am
hehe.. just watched the ‘cast. You fiends!!!!
Love that you referred to Tory as ” that sultry minx” , Matt.
Very funny and well done. Congrats to Adalla whose posts I always enjoy reading!
June 17th, 2008 at 9:53 am
Holy crap it’s obvious who the final cylon is: Tigh and Six’s kid
June 17th, 2008 at 10:26 am
Congratulations, Adalla for getting the headphones!
June 17th, 2008 at 10:26 am
Congrats Adalla!
June 17th, 2008 at 10:49 am
Great Cast guys. That was a cruel way to end it. Can’t wait for next week.
Congrats Adalla! I wish I were you right now. My headphones just broke and I have no way to listen to my ipod.
Matt and Nat… Keep up the good work guys.
June 17th, 2008 at 11:00 am
I think the reason they managed to defuse the hostage/airlock situation is because they all REALLY want to go to Earth. I think that all of them, human and Cylon, really believed that Earth was the ‘little planet that will solve all [their] problems.’ as Crashdown would have said. They were willing to at least postpone the conflict over the final five until they got to go to Earth.
Also, I think the reason D’Anna is calling all the shots is for several reasons. For one, the Cylons have only recently started to really disagree with each other. We saw a little of that in Eye of Jupiter and Rapture, but Cavil’s leadership kept it together. But we haven’t seen them vote on anything ever since the civil war started. When someone really takes charge like D’Anna did in this episode, is there really anything they can do to say “no?” Especially when D’Anna is the one who knows who the five are. That special knowledge gives her a seat of command in this particular mission. I think that the 2s 6s and 8s were already going to let her take charge of this mission because she knew more about the five than they did. But they obviously didn’t know that D’Anna was going to take the hostage approach. By the time that happened, though, there was little anyone could do to stop her (especially since the centurions were listening to her).
Anyway, thats my rationale for those two parts that Matt + Nat had problems with.
June 17th, 2008 at 11:57 am
Congrats Adalla!!
My vote is still on Gaeta being the final one. Once again, its Gaeta who does all the coordinates for Earth. Granted he didnt come up with them this time, he did “verify” them after they jumped. I wonder how he feels now that he knows that Tigh and Anders are cylons. Being that Tigh and Tyrol nearly spaced him and Anders, of course, shot off his leg. Its going to make things pretty awkward in the CIC from now on.
I agree with you Iolon. Since D’anna knows who the final 5 are, she has the power. Also, the others are kinda followers anyway. I dont really see Leoben or any another random 2, 6, or 8 taking charge. The only exception probably would be Athena 2.0 since she has all her memories and ideas. But she is kinda hurt right now after Helo’s sort of betrayol and is probably not in the best mind set to lead.
I wonder now that Athena 2.0 is around, will Hera respond to her? She basically has everything that made Athena different. Except for actually physically carrying her during the pregnancy. If so, and something ever happens to Athena, at least there is a real backup now. So Helo’s covered for having his wife and Hera having her mother. lol. He probably will have to do alot of apologizing though for betraying her trust.
I dont know about you all, but I love listening to the hybrid speak. When she was talking about wiring and fixing things in The Hub, it all sounded like poetry. lol. I could listen to her speak about nonsense all day.
June 17th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
Hey Matt and Nat, great cast as always and congrats to Adalla for the headphones(lucky!) anyway, leaving us with a cliffhanger, you know we are all debating the final scene, where it takes place, is it Earth, where is everyone.How did they get everyone to just get along and be all cumbyah. Gaeta is just looking pathetic without his leg and all. And where in the least episode was the freaky love baby known as Hera. Did we see her and I just missed it? We saw Tyrol and little Nikki. I guess Athena and Hera are still in the brig, they don’t get to go out to Earth, Bad Athena, she shot Nat! No Earth for you! Well see ya’ll next week.
June 17th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
We know some of what the last episodes are going to be about reconciling with themselves and with each other about cylon-ness. Sam and Kara, Adama and Tighe, Tighe and Caprica, etc.
Other than that, here’s my prediction, as best as I can manage:
At some point, Cavil and his bloodthirsty bunch are going to show up. There’s going to be a big slaughter (terrible suffering) by Cavil’s forces. In the midst of it, Earth survivors will show up? The final will activate or come forward, and destroy the ‘bad’ cylons?
…but who is it that ‘hungers for redemption’ the most? The ultimate redemption would be required from the one who was responsible for the slaughter of billions of the 12 colonies in the original attack. Take that back further….the attack stemmed from the existence of cylons, so we then must look at the person who created cylons (from which sentient human models were created) as the one who needs redemption, which is Daniel Graystone…
Keep in mind that the redemption of the hybrid prophesy could be referring to something that hasn’t happened yet.
Also keep in mind that the slaughter of all those cylons in the hub battle – there could be those who hunger for redemption over that incident as well (that is, it’s not just human death that redemption is a factor in…)
Then, there’s the other bits and pieces:
Gaeta’s secret will be revealed?
Hera and Nicky’s role?
Too many questions. January is too long.
brutal!
Tootie
June 17th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
A quick question
I am right in thinking that to the best of out knowledge all of the revealed final five cylons are only childs?, if true this may eliminate Zack Adama as a candidate as he has a brother Lee (also eliminates the Admiral since IIRC according to the Caprica spoilers he had a sister).
Another possible final cylon solution is that the final cylon is being held captive by the cylons similar to how Daniel”Bulldog” Novacek was. I did briefly consider him as a final cylon candidate but he is eliminated by virtue that he is in the fleet and should have been activated at the same time as the other four
June 17th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Charles, you’re right.
Think of what a shame it would be if the final Cylon turned out to be a new character we haven’t met yet. That’d be even more disappointing than finding out the final Cylon is some obscure character.
I’m still hoping that Baltar will be the final Cylon, and I’m encouraged by the fact that the show hasn’t referred to the possibility that Baltar is a Cylon for a long time. The directors could be fading out that idea to make the revelation more shocking.
I think it’d be too obvious if Starbuck was the final Cylon, but at the same time, Edward James Olmos did say the revelation about Starbuck’s return would be something cruel. So if she’s not a Cylon, what is she?
June 17th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
Curse you Adalla. Those were my headphones!
Just kidding. You always have good posts. Congrats. Now I’ll have to keep my fingers crossed for the super cool alienware computer at the end of season 4.
Anyone know when the Caprica movie is going to be on SciFi?
According to tv.com there is an airdate of December 1st, 2008. Anyone else hear that? So we might see Caprica before we see the end to BSG?
June 17th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
DEAR MATT & NAT: (don’t even know if you’ll read this)
I was wondering two things:
Do you guys know if the creators of BSG are responsible for the excrutiating delay of BSG’s return, or is it the ’suits’ over at SciFi?
And can we like, uh, get a frakkin’ petition going? You guys have power, right? Right?
Second, do you two REALLY read EVERYTHING posted on this coments page? If you do, then my hats off to ya. I’m sure it can get pretty tedious.
Matt, I TOTALLY agree with your thoughts about Kendra Shaw. There’s like NO WAY they’d introduce such a cool and mysterious character for no frakkin’ reason, and then kill her off. She has got to be meaningful to the whole storyline somehow!! Perhaps she’s the resurrected version of Hera, or maybe she’s a resurrected version of William Adama’s sister? Okay, that’s a stretch, but I have a gut feeling that RDM will bring her back in a future episode. Here’s hoping…
Also, the third season ep, “The Woman King” must also have some significance, other than showing how prejudice is an insidious, destructive force. The ep wasn’t just about some whackadoo doc getting off on killing people he loathed, but it showcased Helo’s diplomatic skills, so to speak. When I first saw that ep, I was like, “Huh? What does this have to do with anything? Who cares about this grungy woman and her dead son?” But upon further ponderence, I realized that RDM may have something up his sleeve as far as Helo’s role in all of this. Someone mentioned that they feel Helo is either the 5th Cylon or the Cylon’s God. I don’t know if I agree with either one of those testaments, but I DO believe that Helo IS important to everything. Helo covertly stopping the destruction of the Cylons a few episodes back, definitely means something. And WHY did we get SO MANY Helo eps on New Caprica in Season One? Where does he fit in???
Inquiring minds wanna know.
June 17th, 2008 at 5:18 pm
Oh yeah, one more thing……………………
What the frak did Gaeta say to Baltar? Any thoughts?
June 17th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
No, that’s Sci-Fi’s fault, Tron82. And since Ron and Co. found out about the air date being pushed to 2009, and the writer’s strike delaying the shooting of the last 4 episodes of the series, they’ve made the most of it by basically shooting extra long episodes and getting Sci-Fi to see no problem with airing a few ‘free’ episodes of the show. Us? Power? We can always try
Maybe we can swing an advanced screening?
Believe it or not, yes we do read every word. We didn’t realize the can of worms we were opening when we started the contest, but the support and interaction has been heart-warming, so we LOVE getting to read it all!
Nice to hear someone is on my side for the Hera/Kendra final cylon theory!
Actually, Woman King was part of a larger arc about the mistreatment of the Saggitarons during Baltar’s presidency, and it was to rear its ugly head during his trial with Tom Zarek being significant along with Gaeta. But Ron realized it was getting over-complicated, and although they shot the footage, they never cut it into the back 10 of Season 3. Poopy. But apparently that’s what Gaeta and Baltar whisper about before Gaeta goes all stabby on him.
~Matt
June 17th, 2008 at 7:25 pm
ITA, lolon. And here’s something else to consider: The Rebels desperately want to find the Final Five, and D’Anna not only is the only one who knows their identities but quite justifiably has trust issues with everyone. Might also be worth remembering what the tipping point for boxing the Threes was in the first place, her unilateral actions when it came to getting Baltar and her down to the Temple of the Five. The Eights are, to put it politely, rather flaky. The events of Downloaded would be a pretty good incentive for the Sixes to tread carefully and the Two? For all I know, Leoben has had a vision of all this already and doesn’t really care.
Anyway, would you want to get in a pissing match with D’Anna Warrior Princess? Frak off!
Though, if my memory serves, Lucy is only appearing in one (perhaps two) episodes of the back ten, I guess once her leverage is gone someone is going to say END OF LINE to the Threes. 
I’m just hoping some inspired stunt casting on Burn Notice, is going to bring back Lucy’s ice-cold assassin Evelyn and have her butting heads with Tricia Helfer (who will be in a multi-episode arc).
June 17th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
Hey, Matt!
Wow! You rock, dude. So you guys DO read all of our verbiage. That is truly awesome of you. And thanks very much for the response and for your thoughts on “The Woman King” ep.
You know, I was recently as green as The Hulk recently when I discovered that they had a very special screening of “Revelations” at the Cinerama Dome in L.A. last Wednesday. It really hit home that I am NOT truly tuned in to everything BSG. Frak!
I checked out the GALACTICA SITREP site and read some info on the screening and saw some cool pics of RDM, Katee Sackhoff, Mary McDonnell and Tricia Hefler.
I don’t live that far from L.A., and was pretty bummed that I missed out on an opportunity like that. I read that a lot the fans who showed up were actually allowed in, after invited media and crew people, of course. Rumor has it, that another screening event like that may take place next year for the series finale. Matt, if you hear any more buzz on this in the coming months, could you possibly post something about it for us? That would be SUH-SWEEET. Thanks.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:48 pm
You bet we will, Tron82!
Nat is the research QUEEN so she stands a pretty good chance of unearthing some nuggets about advanced screenings… and I’m kind of a tenacious S.O.B., so if I can encourage a special screening to happen, I will
~Matt
June 17th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
Congrats to my friend Adalla! Funny thing is he’s outta town and probably isn’t even aware of it yet! LOL!
June 17th, 2008 at 10:22 pm
“Adam Says:
June 17th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
Congrats to my friend Adalla! Funny thing is he’s outta town and probably isn’t even aware of it yet! LOL!”
The way Adalla participates here it looks like he lives and breaths BSG.
.Probably out of town because he is stalking RDM until the new eps arrive.
Congrats Adalla
June 17th, 2008 at 10:29 pm
“jbsaab Says:
June 16th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
. Why not recolonize the twelve colonies?”
Not likely, but just a thought”
Can’t go back. The Cylons near the home world are not dead.
Destroying the Resurrection Hub should have only stopped the Cylons in deep space from respawning. Non friendly Cylons can still respawn near their homeworld. The 12 Colonies might be occupied by unfriendly Cylons.
The surviving Cavils will not be pleased to see the Rag Rag Fleet return.
June 17th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
Damn two part BSGcast!
I do hope you guys touch on a few more things within the episode in the second part. I like it when you two really dig into these episodes and this one, so far, is really light on total analysis. Still, I love this stuff and I think you guys should put out one that really digs into the total package of what we have seen. Perhaps even a BSGcast rewind on everything from the mini to the end of 4.0. You know, break down how each season applies to the next and such. It would be a lot of work but you could probably squeeze out 9 months worth of material out of it.
June 17th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
—–POSSIBLE SPOILER——
If this has already been posted I apologize.
I just read that in a recent EW interview Ronald Moore stated that the Final Five do not have model numbers. I just found that interesting since there is a gap between 6 & 8.
June 17th, 2008 at 11:47 pm
Revelations:
First of all great hair makeover Tahmoh ( Helo Fan ).
This was a great mid season finale, But so not earth, I beleive the colonials landed on perhaps the first colony the 13th tribe made in the galaxy there and whoever wrote the Book of Pythia wrote the book and took it back to the remaining 12 tribes and after that point
the colony there might have left due to civil war, galctic war or enviromental and or technological destruction.
something to ponder on.
Ok the characters featured this week:
Gaeta: He lost his leg and just seeing that one scene with him struggling with the the cane he has the most to complain about and he doesn’t while everybody bitches about the smallest things. That’s a soilder.
Roslin: who only knows how to lie through her teeth and though the dying leader, a dishonorable one .We have seen this through the entire series she gives her word and then breaks it only moments later , President Adar taught her well.
She is the old colonial regime and as Kara mentioned what Leoben had said that parents have to die in order for their children to reach their full potential that also goes in the way of the old colonial goverment needing to let go so something new can grow in it;s place Roslin being the best example why.
D’eanna said that there were four cylons in the fleet which means that the fifth cylon is on the basestar (so roslin’s worst nightmare just maybe true or it just maybe Adama after all he is most likely to ask for redemption than Roslin .) Good points for Deanna she still cares for Gaius though probably not as much, though she still needs to act agressive ,she’s impateint and acts rashly.
Adama: The broke man Tigh was able to do what 2 tries by the cylons couldn’t do ( Boomer and Bulldog) and took down the man but not out for the count. At this point Adama will do anything for Roslin which makes her dangerous for the fleet even if she doesn’t become president of the colonies.
Tigh: Stood up and took the consquences and though it was almost fatal for him he’s free from the lie. And truth set him free although he should have told Sam
Adama: a broken man when Tigh told him that he was a cylon
June 17th, 2008 at 11:57 pm
Just to throw it out there, anyone notice the little kid derrick in s4 e1 had encephalitis which if I’m not mistaken was the same thing the cylons were exposed to and almost got wiped out with. I just wanted to see if anyone noticed this little morsel of info. i think its kind of odd that the writers would use the same old encephalitis for the kid. It makes me wonder if the cylon could be connected to the child, or if its just a useless point. I’ve also been looking at possible tip off moments or actions taht will point out a cylon, such as the boomer,” i can’t say that i found water moment”, or the Tyrol on the alge planet ” i cant blow up the temple” maybe the cylons have something written in there brains that says if this will hurt the cylons then you can’t do it, which could point out the final cylon, so just keep an eye out for the i can’t do it moments. Those were just some of my thoughts on the final cylons, but eh who really knows besides the writers, this show can bank right at a moments notice leaving us with a omg moment that we all love.
June 18th, 2008 at 12:27 am
Hey guys, how about this for another small detail I’ve noticed: Am I the only one who noticed that when the Four heard the music again, that the other Cylons didn’t? We originally thought that it was the Cylons that “turned on” the Final Four, that the nebula was a signal. However, the other Cylons seemed to be confused when Tory began reacting to the music. So, this means that the Cylons weren’t the ones who were using “All Along the Watchtower” (and since “Earth” is apparently dead, there’s no one there who could have “activated” the music). That leads me to suspect even more that the Beings of Light are even more involved with what’s happening, because A. When Starbuck returned, her Viper was intact (when it was visibly destroyed). This same Viper was the only ship picking up that distress signal that pointed the way to Earth (and if the Beings of Light resurrected Starbuck the same way they did with Apollo in the old show, than that means that they purposefully reprogramed the Viper’s scanners to find that signal). B. The music brought Tory, Anders, Tigh and Tyrol together to make them realize that they are Cylons. This same music brought three of them together to the Viper, which means that they purposefully got the three of them to get Starbuck to the Viper again so that she could find that signal.
There’s something bigger going on, I tell you. Recently we’ve seen more and more evidence of some sort “higher power” being involved, including Head Elosha.
June 18th, 2008 at 12:31 am
sorry sent first part accidently this is the continuance:
TIGH:stood up and took the consequences and though it was almost fatala for himhe’s free from the lie. And the truth set him free although he should have tols Sam and Galen what he was going to do.
Sam and Galen: seemed releived finally as well , Sam finally seeing what would happen when Kara found out and Galen finally releived as well and less confused about who he is and finally able to be with his son Nicholas and be happy.
Leoben : nice to know we will always see him when there isn’t a battle and nice to know that he isn’t the last of the 2’s . So where are battles no leoben will be there.. The 2’s are the only one’s willing to bend over backward for the colonial fleet while everyone else are being careful is this for Kara or his beleif in the prophecy or both.
THEORY: There is a higher power at work ( just like in the original series makes you wonder who’s count Iblis) and when Kara died in season 3 she was being talked to by someone who took the guise of Leoben and Kara mentioned that “they were coming for her” I beleive she ascended and finding earth descend and well she had to comeback with her viper which was originally destroyed and then replaced by the ptb. when she woke up she was over the planet seen in the end of the finale took it for earth left a colonial beacon to mark the way to earth and after she returned to the fleet the more time she spent with them the more she lost of the knowledge and the viper showing the beacon part of the hybrid’s prophecy from BSG Razor joined in the promisedland gathered ” on the wings of angel. Kara’s viper her wings. The colonists though and rebel cylons disappointed will have to struggle a little further.
I hope the up coming actor’s strike doesn’t interfere with the future continuance of the final season. BYE BYE.
June 18th, 2008 at 6:18 am
Hey rebelsnoopy! Just shoot us an email at MattandNat@YourGeekNews.com with your address and T-Shirt size… same goes for you, Jinx! We’ll be sending all the shirts and the headphones out this week!
~Nat
June 18th, 2008 at 6:48 am
“And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering.”
Here is a crazy thought. What if the hybrid was describing child birth?
June 18th, 2008 at 8:00 am
So to hit on what I said earlier in response to TighFighter. I think Kara’s ship is the Ship of Lights from the original series. This would make total sense as the “final 5 have been to earth”. Perhaps they have and don’t realize it and they keep hearing the music which draws them to ’special places’. I definitely believe its Kara’s viper on earth thats is ruined that was emitting the locater beacon and her SOL ship was obviously the only one to receive it. This could mean that the Beings of Light either said “hey look here” or the final 5 were picking up on the signal themselves and felt compelled to where it was coming from.
I think Tyrol’s reaction to being found out a cylon and also when seeing earth was perfect. It would of been my reaction. a) total relief and happiness to be ousted and no longer hide, then b) the irony of seeing earth in its current state and all the hub-bub about it being so special. In the end its worthless.
I like in the preview for 2009 it appears in slow-mo that Tigh is holding a gun to (based upon the hair) Ander’s head? If you look close enough the burning **remember RDM said she is burning something special, but then this was removed from the picture mid-season…**, the burning image appears to be in my opinion “Searider Falcon”. if its not that its perhaps the book that Lee was holding that described the temple on earth by Pythia. The final thing is Adm. Adama bent over over someone who is drapped in a white cloth who is apparently dead and crying and we hear those famed words “you were the fifth”. So this must definitely be someone who is close to adama and important to him.
My thoughts on this though – I really would like to stick to the fact that RDM stated that the people in the picture are *not* the final cylon. If that holds true it can’t be roslin. But if not roslin then who could it be? The though about “adama is a cylon” comes back from long ago. What if it *was* Zack, and this was perhaps a flash back and he was crying over his dead son’s body? This could hold true because D’anna states there are only 4 in the fleet. Although – this could also mean that the 1 was on the basestar.
Alot of different possibilities and angles. I look forward to next season and all the speculation to come.
Matt & Nat, keep up the great BSG cast and I look forward to the work during the break of which I”m sure will incite much debate and speculation. You two rock.
June 18th, 2008 at 8:34 am
Is it really dumb of me ( and tell me if this has been discussed to death elsewhere) to speculate that Elosha could be the fifth? And that we will find her wandering around somewhere on Earth or whatever this place is ( certainly looks like parts of NJ to me).
June 18th, 2008 at 9:02 am
GREAT CAST Matt and Nat! As usual! Can’t wait for your speculations and thoughts on the final Earth scenes. Great cliffhanger.
Thanks Matt for explaining about what Gaeta and Baltar are referring to…Discrimination against a group for no reason is incomprehensible, but feelings of anger etc. at a group that doesn’t help fight back against the cylons (Sagitarons), I can understand. But what are you going to do about it that doesn’t make you inhuman? Ignore them pretty much I guess.
I must say I’ve watched ‘Revelations’ several times now and I feel the gut punch of a ruined Earth more deeply with each viewing. And, like the characters, I have no idea what will happen now, where to literally or figuratively go. Stay on the ships. Make babies. Scout for inhabitable planets. Keep watch for a cylon attack. In some ways nothing has changed – even though there is a truce with the rebels, there are still dangerous cylons out there. Earth has provided no refuge in terms of resources and people. So far
For Adama and Kara especially, it’s going to be tough. How do you maintain a close relationship with someone you knew as human who is now cylon? There is always a smidgeon of doubt that they will come to betray you all (except so far with Sharon – the old man, Kara, Helo and others all trust her…but many others still don’t). It’s also tough because you don’t know if everything they say and do is programming (but isn’t a human being programmed by society and parents etc.?) and so cylons are forever foreign and different – too different for some to ever overcome it. Kara and Sam weren’t really close anyway, but Saul and Tighe sure were. Sam is clearly in love with her still. I feel for him. Good acting when they’re standing in front of Kat’s picture.
Looks like my hopes for Adama and Roslin to build a cabin and start growing weed, with uncle Tighe next door with a large distillery, and Kara and Lee down the road happily wedded with lots of little ones just isn’t going to happen…yet.
Tootie
June 18th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
I have a question to throw out there.
Are we going to see more of the Baltar vs Sons of Ares story arc? Or has that been dropped, like Baltar’s persecution of the Sagittarons?
And not to be a pessimist, but I remind you again, almost everyone is going to die before the end of this season.
June 18th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
frakkin old person… I believe the model used was based on a picture of New York from the New Jersey side.
June 18th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
I don’t think the planet they found is Earth as we know it. They went to great pains to not show us any landmasses that could identify the planet as earth. This to me is a planet that has Earth like qualities, but our earth is still out there waiting to be found.
June 18th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Just rewatched the episode and wanted to comment on Leoben’s new haircut. I am loving it.
pros?
cons?
June 18th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
Hey all!
You all seen this? http://www.nbcuniversalstore.com/detail.php?p=61221&v=nbc_the-office_comic-con
I am buying mine right now. lol
June 18th, 2008 at 10:58 pm
I don’t think the Earth they visited is in the time period they are meant to settle in.
Of all the artifacts that have helped them find Earth, they were all at least 3000 years old. The arrow Starbuck went after, the Tomb of Athena, the piece of space junk with the Cylon plague and the temple on the algae planet were all build thousands of years ago. Why would the beacon that guided the fleet be any different?
If Starbuck went into a wormhole, nothing says that the time she came out would be the same as the other people in the fleet. And if the beacon was setup by her or someone she encountered where she went, we no idea when the beacon started sending a signals.
I thick she came out to Earth maybe a few thousand years ago. But the surviving members of the fleet had already been there for a while, made photos of the Earth, built a viper out of spare parts and sent her on her way. Just like the Cylons will build all these temples on the algae planet and Cobol. Who else would lead them to Earth otherwise? The 12 Cylons then will go into the wormhole (maybe the red spot on Jupiter?) to fulfill their part of the cycle.
In the tomb of Athena, an image of Earth was projected. If those people had never been to Earth, how do they know its there and what it looks like? Earth must the first home of the Cylons/Gods of Cobol.
The Colonials will end up on the Earth in our history. There knowledge (or programming) will help us built and enslave the first Cylons, the first Cylons will kill humanity in a nuclear war and leave the Earth. The Twelve Cylons will lead that group to Cobol in the past. That makes all Colonials second generation Cylons and the creature we’ve called Cylons third generation. And in that way they can complete this cycle thats been hinted at.
June 19th, 2008 at 2:11 am
But what I love about BSG is that the prejudice against the Sagiterons is much older than the Cylons — after all, wasn’t Tom Zarek’s motivations for becoming a terrorist that his people had been exploited by the other eleven Colonies for centuries. One radical thing about BSG that doesn’t get pointed out as often as it should is that divisions in Colonial society aren’t alone racial or gender lines, or even religion (after all, the Geminese are, for want of a better way to put it, religious fundamentalists and socially conservatives but still seem to exist within ‘mainstream’ colonial society) but CLASS. Pretty radical for American TV.
June 19th, 2008 at 7:16 am
I was reading down the way and had gotten about 50 into the posts and I was shocked.
I had yet to see a valid theory that should have been obvious to all those that watched the old show.
The new series has been taking elements from the old show and telling them in new ways. Just look at the death of Pegasus, like in the old show, going right into the center of the enemy fleet on a suicide run right for the command ship (in the old show we never knew what happened, and it was likely she made it out).
This devastated world could very well be the new show’s “Terra!” Look at the old show, and see the potentials. It was colonized by a small portion of the 13th tribe while it continued to wander to Earth. It took some of the same names (Terra is another word for Earth) and some of the same problems. When Galactica arrived in the old show they were on the verge of a nuclear war that would have wiped out the world. The only thing that stopped them was the intervention of Galactica’s weapons.
Terra was more advanced than Earth, with colonies on various moons and star ships.
The beings of light attempted to lead Galactica to Terra in the old show in order to stop that war from happening. They sent a single representative ahead (in the old show it was Apollo) in a special viper and then another (Starbuck) for the purpose of guiding the fleet there and helping the people there.
Looking at those things with the light of the new show, this world could be Terra. It could be confused with Earth because of its name, it being colonized by members of the 13th tribe, and similar technology (but more advanced than ours presently).
The beings of light may have led them there for a specific purpose, like to unite the rebels and the humans, or to show them the product of unthinking hatred and war. Starbuck could have been the person sent ahead to help them find the place.
Earth may still be out there, yet to be reached.
June 19th, 2008 at 7:39 am
A thought suddenly hit me in the back of the head (they sometimes do).
If people are so determined to make the last Cylon someone dead I have another candidate.
Duck!
Like the PF he had a role in the Resistance. He hated the Cylons and the collaborators so much that he was willing to sacrifice himself to take some of them out.
The element of D’Anna apologizing takes on a whole new level if Duck is the final Cylon. She was looking him in the eye (I think it was her) and welcoming him to the effort as he pushed the button. She would have an up-close and personal view of his demise. She doesn’t have to be apologizing because she did him personal harm, but because she knows he’s dead and she knows that he was driven to that because of the Occupation and not knowing he was a Cylon.
I know that seems like a little bit of a let-down, but its no less so than the entire “the final Cylon is dead” line of reasoning.
It also adds a little twist of guilt on the Cylons that one of their own would want to murder them and kill himself in the process.
June 19th, 2008 at 8:54 am
What if….
the fifth is D’anna’s old camera man!! She apologized to him in the temple because she probably wasn’t very nice to him. Made him carry the camera everywhere and basically doing everything she said. Probably got him put in jail for a while after D’anna was a confirmed cylon on New Caprica. I would say he is seeking redemption becaue he was not a very good camerman and probably messed up alot of shots for D’anna. lol.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:34 am
There has to be reason why Dee was in that final scene and not Gaeta (the man might have a leg missing but this is EARTH. I imagine he’d still want to be part of the first landing party, leg or no).
Does this mean Dee will finally get to play a more significant role next time around?
June 19th, 2008 at 10:49 am
Interesting episode. And some great comments from all of us. I’m big on Cylon speculation (I have two videos on YouTube for it, and more on the way). I want to throw in some bits about D’Anna’s statement.
Okay. She said four of them are in the Fleet. That’s a fact. It will not change. She said it. BUT, that fact can be interpreted several ways. Here are some options left to us:
1. D’Anna may well not know who the Fifth is precisely. Well, of course she saw the faces in the Temple, but perhaps she doesn’t recognize that last person. When you consider that the other four were well known for their involvement with the Resistance on New Caprica, it’s easy to see how she’d recognize them. But if the Fifth were someone who remained relatively obscure during New Caprica, she may not have even known that face. I admit, there are problems with this one, but it’s a theory nonetheless.
2. The Fifth is on the basestar. Okay, we’ve all seen this speculated already. I’m not going to dwell on it. I will say I find this particularly hard to swallow.
3. Something very likely given the information: D’Anna knows the Fifth, but it’s not relevant. Why? The Fifth is not activated yet. Remember, she says that she is in contact with the Four. That’s why she can claim they’re there. That’s why she outs Tory as soon as she’s brought aboard. But if the Fifth is still dormant (and I believe it is), it makes her statement true while still making the Fifth in the Fleet. She’s right: the Fifth isn’t in the Fleet. But she’s wrong: the Fifth is there. It’s inactive.
4. A possibility no one seems to mention yet: maybe D’Anna’s lying. She’s a sly one, we all know. The identities of the Five give her the leverage to return from the dead and secure her place safely. If withholding further identities will give her added leverage (and don’t think for a minute it wouldn’t), she’ll take advantage of it. Of course, this is only speculation. It may well be false, but that’s speculation.
5. A good possibility: the Fifth is someone the Cylons (specifically D’Anna) killed. This assumes the Fifth is who she apologized to in the Temple. It’s great for speculation, but it’s also a great flaw. That flaw is in the assumption. We have to assume that the Fifth is the recipient of her apology. We simply don’t know that. We only know for sure that she apologized to one of the Five. Really, she has reason enough to apologize to Tigh (and I think he’s the real recipient for the time being). He was the Cylons’ pet for torture on New Caprica. “Forgive me. I had no idea” could refer to this.
So there it is. Good speculation, bad speculation. You decide. There’s still a lot left in Season 4, and Ron Moore’s not done frakking with us yet.
June 19th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
Good speculations, trueedge2097!
I agree that D’Anna could very well have apologized to Saul Tigh. It makes sense, that’s for sure. However, RDM could always offer us a convenient “flashback” ep, where we actually see D’Anna torture or kill the mysterious 5th Cylon. Who knows. Like you stated, RDM is definitely NOT done frakking with us yet.
But since you asked the question, yes. Good speculation. There can really be no harsh criticisms here.
Not after viewing a climatic cliff hanger like that!
My speculation, especially having just viewed the extended version of “Razor” for a second time, has to do with yes, Kendra Shaw. There’s something very pivotal about her character, and forgive me, but I honestly don’t think the creators of BSG would just throw a character out there at us without good enough reason. Especially a character so viscerally dynamic and emotionally driven, and who was clearly in desperate need of REDEMPTION.
And perhaps it was necessary for us to hear the hybrid in that episode refer to her as “my child”, when he just got through calling the Cylons his “children” and that they considered him their “god”. Could be random, but who knows. (Many of you have already commented on that particular hybrid being Daniel Greystone; the creator of the Cylons).
The character of Kendra Shaw had so many levels to her. Why would we even be introduced to her in the first place, unless her character had some deeper relevance? A more meaningful purpose? She willingly sacrificed herself for the sake of others. Perhaps her redemption already came. Perhaps not.
Still, at this point in time, my money’s on Kendra Shaw being the 5th, currently “in shadow”. Yeah, I’m reaching quite a bit with this one, but for now, it makes sense to me. Even if my speculation is a wee bit frakked.
June 19th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
Hey, 24601!
I just wanted to say that I appreciated your speculation below:
“And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering.”
Here is a crazy thought. What if the hybrid was describing child birth?
That is also such an interesting and awesome perspective on this whole thing. Never looked at it that way before.
So are you saying that perhaps the child belonging to Number 6 and Saul Tigh is the one “clawing toward the light”?
Only thing is, why would a baby hunger for redemption? The “howl of terrible suffering” could be the mother experiencing birth pangs, but the redemption part just doesn’t seem to fit. But who knows, right?
June 19th, 2008 at 10:00 pm
Just two more observations from re-watching the episode.
-Check out when Adama is drunk and Lee is holding him. Adama says “There is no Earth. It’s a frakin’ Joke” and then a large amount of spit falls out of his mouth and slowly slides down Jamie Bamber’s hand then on to the floor. Jamie kind of looks but keeps on with the scene. (Acting. Genius. Thank You.)
-I didn’t notice it the first time but I liked that they brought back, Laird, the deck chief from the Pegasas to show he’s replaced Tyrol as Galactica’s deck chief (again).
June 19th, 2008 at 10:03 pm
i was waiting to see laird i had a 20 buck bet with my friend that they wouldnt show him just use his name liek they have been in previous eps, most notably ep 7 or 8 and ep 10
June 20th, 2008 at 11:58 am
I was looking at classic BSGcasts and was listening to the Razor Hybrid theory a couple times
Soon there will be four etc…
The pain of revelation bringing new clarity and in the midst of confusion, he will find her (Tigh and Six because he certainly was
confused this season and he looked to her to beat him to his senses)
Enemies brought together by impossible longing etc…
And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering.”
To me, the last line sounds a lot like someone being born traumatically….I think the child about to be born to Tigh and Six is going to be a clone of someone from the fleet; probably someone who died already…somebody who did very bad things and being reborn redeems them (Kendra Shaw, Helena Caine, Ellen Tigh) or somebody who was innocent (Billy…was anybody else innocent’ish’).
June 20th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
Cool, 24601 thinks the same (impossible to everything before writing
)
June 20th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
Hay please feel free 2 tell me off our throw me out a airlock for this
, but please check out my lasest BSG Vid I made from the last 2 ep of the season. All comments welcome.
Just follow the link above
June 20th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
yun
i made a comment earlier and was thinking the same thing about this planet being terra. they are going to find a major clue to earth there.
starbucker cool coment about tigh and six. but there is one big problem, cylons cannot breed with each other. they need the human component.
remember back on caprica cylon simon was harvesting human eggs. no matter ho much science they try, they will never be able to procreate with each other biologically speaking. they are machines with no souls. that is what makes the colonials human. that is why i still believe that this is baltar’s child and not tigh’s. i said in my other post that i believe the 5th cylon is a centurian and is on the baseship. that is who d’anna saw. they treat centurians like slaves. this centurian was sent back by the 13th tribe with their story. it has been downloading into new metal for centuries larning as it goes. continually running programmed scinerios until it finds a solution to the human equasion. that is why you have 11 different humanoid models with 11 different human aspects. until it figures out what makes us tick, this program will be on a continual loop. constantly resetting foever. a machine will never figure out what makes us human. hell we don’t completely know ourselves. it is a continious journey; the meaning of life stuff. a machine will never figure this out. that is why ALL THIS HAS HAPPENED BEFORE AND WILL HAPPEN AGAIN. AGAIN. AGAIN. AGAIN
sounds a little dramatic
but any thoughts?
June 20th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
Ok no new episode tonight:( On the BSG Sci-fi site it says, “New episodes coming soon, Explore the Photo”. Any of you figure this out. Is there some kind of hidden date in there? I’m kind of bummed. I was mentaly prepairing myself for THE END. Now we have to wait. GAAA!!
June 21st, 2008 at 11:23 am
Chek out David Eick’s newest Video Blog on the SciFi website. Behind the scenes of “Revelations”. Not much revelations there but a lot of yellow and blue umbrellas
And the beach in reality is looking even worse than in the show…if that’s possible.
Watch it, It’s fun.
June 21st, 2008 at 11:24 am
…I mean “check out”…sorry
June 21st, 2008 at 4:51 pm
Hey Matt and Nat
Sorry I haven’t made a comment about the BSG cast yet. It’s been a hard week for me. I had to go in and get cut Thursday. It seems I had some skin cancer. Guess all the years of working outside have caught up with me. LOL Kind of been hurting since.
I did love the show it was great. Especially the way you two opened it. It was just the way I looked when they got to Earth. Without knowing me you had my look down pat. LMAO I was so enthralled with your show I didn’t even notice it was running out on the little bar till your ending. You two are bad! LOL not only do we get a cliff hanger on BSG but you guys got us too.
OK now I just watched the HBO movie John Adams and that made me put something together with BSG. Tory, back in 1776 time frame that is what we called someone who was loyal to the British crown. Hmmmmm that is interesting isn’t it? I don’t think that RDM put that much thought into it but it is funny that Tory is the 1 in the four who was a trader to the fleet.
Now I don’t know for sure if it has been brought up or not to be honest I haven’t been in the mood for reading but at the time that Dianna said that only 4 of the FF are in the fleet there was a lot of humans in the Basestar. That leads me to believe that the FC is on the Basestar at that point and she is not saying anything to that one for fear that the switch has not been turned on yet. We did hear Tigh saying so you’re the final one in the teaser for the second half. With that we do know the FC is not dead. From what RDM tells us the FC is not in the last supper picture and has been on the show from the beginning. Now we know that it was not in the fleet at the time Dianna told them about the 4 only being in the fleet. Now we need to figure out who was on the Basestar and was not in the picture and has been with the show from the start? God I love a mystery!
Sorry got to typing as I was thinking. I hate it when that happens. OH and I do have a comment on your facebook comment about the 4 being revealed and Cally’s getting spaced being sad. Not at all, I really hated her. She was winey and did nothing but cause the Chief a lot of trouble. She was destroying him. Even though he is a Cylon I still love his character. I can’t say he is my favorite but he is up there. It’s kind of hard to decide who my favorite is too.
Now with your winner of the head set. I can’t think of a more deserving person. Adalla is so dedicated to the show it is almost sad. I love the web site that Adalla made it is just fantastic and a great complement to your site. (Thanks Tighfighter for introducing me to it.) I would also like to know where you see the parody’s you are talking about. That would be fun to watch.
Well I’m anxiously awaiting the next installment of BSGcast and hope you put it up soon.
June 21st, 2008 at 5:40 pm
Holy Frak, Jim… SKin Cancer? You’re doing better I hope? That’s DEFINITELY an acceptable excuse for not commenting, dude…
I’m glad you liked our cliff hanger too… it’ll be worth the wait for the next installment of BSGcast, since we have this thing against leaving people hanging until the YEAR CHANGES… jeez, Ron…
Oh, and, boyeatsgirl, That’s a great video! It could use a little more Baltar… but that’s just my opinion
~Matt
June 21st, 2008 at 8:17 pm
LOL
Thanks a lot Mat I’m happy u liked it, as it looks like u mite have a mild interest in Baltar, check out one of my other vids it may satisfy ure Baltar needs. Just follow that link 
Oh Mat I promise I will make a Baltar Vidieo just 4 U
.
June 21st, 2008 at 9:10 pm
Hi all,
Jim, stay strong. I can’t pretend to understand what you are going through, but my prayers are with you.
Adalla, congrats on the phones…you deserve them.
REVELATIONS!
I hate to keep beating my drum about this but Tigh and Six are key. The fifth of the final five Cylons has been revealed already. Tigh and Six…he is a cylon, she is a cylon….they made a cylon baby. I truly believe that Tigh’s wife was a Six that didn’t know she was a Six, fell in love with Tigh and subconsciously sabotaged his efforts to help the human cause. They enabled each other to be alcoholics and at the end she actually betrayed his trust. That is exactly what got her killed. THough her conscious motivations were to help save TIgh, I think that subconsciously she knew that by hurting Tigh…she was helping their people, the Cylons. Now another Six has come along, fallen in love with Tigh, made love and made a baby! After the amnesty from Prez. Adama, Six and Tigh are flown down to Earth. Who does Six reach out to for solace at the devastation that is “earth”? Her Tigh! After years of alcohol abuse, hurt feelings, betrayal and full blown war….these two have found each other over and over again. I think this to be very significant.
The interraction between Roslin and Lee in Adamas quarters gave me pause. She told Lee that he was not off the hook yet. He had been the leader and known what to do in a crisis. I think this foreshadows….something. It seems that Roslin has passed the torch to Lee. Not quite at that particular moment…but she wanted him to know that when the time came, that he was going to be the next permenant Prez. of the colonies. He had been weighed and measured and found to be up to the challenge. It seems as if Roslin knows that her days are dwindling, while Lee is at the threshold of leading humanity into the future.
“There are those that believe that life here, began out there!” This quote from the original series still gets me. It hasn’t seemed relevant until now, it might not be relevant at all. But i just want to put it out there. Does anyone else get the feeling that maybe the end of the new BSG will be the beginning of the old BSG? Somehow, someway, we’ve completed the circle. “All this has happened before, and it will happen again!”
Thanks All,
Hoop
June 22nd, 2008 at 1:14 pm
OMG 303 comments! Man! I guess shouldnt be surprising since it’s the mid season Finale. I have not read a single comment, I will in time, but right now let me just say thank you Matt and Nat and Alienware for the headphones, I actually do need them, cause mine crapped out a while ago, and the ones I have now are dying also as they are pretty cheap. So thank you very much, I appreciate it
I’d like to tip my hat off to all other BSGcast folk who have written some of the greatest BSG theories and created some of the best BSG discussion on the web.
And for the record, I’ll paste my initial thoughts that I wrote on BSG Pilots. I’ll come back and dig into the details and update my theories later on
—————————-
I FINALLY watched it. As usual here is my rating, full of my usual praise mixed in with criticism
Revelations gets 4.5 out of 5 stars from me. It was one hell of a ride, well done, but it’s not a perfect episode…cause well, expectations are SO high at this point, that to truly be a perfect episode…well it’s so hard. Especially with such huge plot advancements. I mean there is so much you can do, it really is hard to mess up an episode with a plot like that.
I did like the music. But I must say it was not as “shocking” or “revolutionary” as Bear McCreary made it out to be IMO. Yes, the music was a big part of the episode and it was very well done, however, again, my expectations are so high at this point for the music as well that well, the music itself gets a 4 out 5 stars from me. There was no clear cut new theme, which I was looking forward to. It was re-arrangements of the all along the watch tower theme and other themes, which is absolutely fine, but I really was expecting another new score like “The Shape of Things to Come” or “Passacalia” or “Martial Law”.
I feel music-wise Revelations and The Hub brought something new in Season 4…but otherwise it was not noticable in all the other S4 episodes.
Anyways, overall an excellent episode, worthy of a mid season cliff hanger finale. Just not perfect for me. “Guess What is Coming to Dinner” is still my favorite episode in Season 4 so far. Revelations was at a par with Faith.
Here is my favorite shot, when I was picking up my jaw from the floor. It is also my favorite part of the score for this episode. It was truly breath taking, both the shot and the music, I just wished there was a lot more of this type of shot and music. I expected a lot of this type of shot/score.
dont know if this link will work
Though although the episode was called “Revelations” we really did not get many. We only got one big revelation, and that is that Earth is not populated. We can finally put the rest the theories of a populated Earth, in our future, or in our past. There is nobody home on Earth…and that is the biggest revelation in the episode.
For those who said they dont think this planet is Earth, Gaeta confirmed that the constallations match. They cant match unless the planet is sitting in exactly the same position in space as the planet from which those constallations were visible, i.e Earth.
So we see ruins on Earth, so that leaves us with a nice little question…
Where is the 13th Tribe?
July 7th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
(not my native language, bad english, be advised)
First of all, I seen all of the episodes from 15 June untill today.
It’s a very good tv show non the less.
The last episode made me think, maybe the viper that pointed Earth is actually build on Earth that’s why it’s new and was a help for them to find this planet (perhaps from another Univers, who knows).
Anyway I think that the cylons were created on this planet from the start and they were programed or sent for the other 12 colonies to destroy them.
Perhaps this is the first planet nuked long time ago when the cylons first rebeled… and they need a fresh start…
July 9th, 2008 at 10:29 pm
Hi All,
First, it does look like NYC, and in the future; the earth looked too different in the ancient past to be the “past”. I also think that the Earth they are looking for is not where they landed. All–cylons (natalie, caprica), and Kara are seeing the same place that is green, and peaceful–I believe even Roslin has seen it. It is also possible that they seek Earth in another dimension? Is the reason that earth looks similar, yet different because it is NYC, but in a dimension, like they did on a Stargate SG-1 one time? I don’t know, but I don’t like to think that earth is really heaven, and that they are all going to die in the end.
As for Kara indirectly sparking some type of nuclear event on earth, highly unlikely. I think she has just fulfilled the “harbinger of death” portion of her destiny–ie. the dream is over, they all did just die, and need to be reborn to fulfill the ultimate destiny of the human and cylon races. I think Lee, is the perfect example of this idea because of the following:
1–Lee lost hope in RII as he was disappointed in Adama, and Roslin; more Roslin as he thought she was more black and white w/her moral compass, as he was. Adama’s was grey; Lee could not reconcile that w/his own beliefs.
2–Lee, although through months of depression, being suicidal along w/Kara of course,got fat,marries Dee,f eventually snaps out of it–only when he becomes Admiral and chooses to leave everyone behind while his dad goes back to save those on NC.
3– Lee begins to regain some direction when he becomes Major again, but still has a great deal of probs w/Kara and Dad.
4–The final change and the upward swing completely to a man who finally understands the grey of decision making, but is strong enough to use that moral compass to defend what’s right what is possible for their survival? Kara’s death. She freed him from his Dad’s control, the military, and from instead of fighting how he felt for her, accepting them and making peace w/that, and his relationship w/his Dad. He was reborn to the leader we see in Revelations.
Thus, the title of our mid season stunner is oh so appropriate–as well Lee finally gets to legally, kinda beat up Tigh, without getting thrown in the brig (his lucky day), Kara finds out she is married to a cylon–more friend w/benefits than soulmate, and hasn’t seemed to freak out…yet. But I don’t think that she will….she has been the one to “cross over” so to speak to create some kind of bridge w/the cylons that has led this to the wasteland of earth. I think that fact, and the fact Lee has created some kind of peace w/the cylons, is how she and Lee will lead them all to a place they can call home. Lee will need to be resolute and stronger than ever to get the fleet to survive, and that is his destiny,he needs Kara to help in that as we saw at the beginning of this epi. He believes, It’s their right and will to survive that will keep him from becoming depressed and hopeless again. Kara and Lee have done the same thing in different ways, as have Adama and Roslin. I believe Adama and Roslin are retiring and becoming “consultants” so to speak.
Therefore, Kara does die, as does everyone else, as this hope of earth, has kept people alive; but now is when the real fight will begin-because where will they go? I think that is how her destiny will ultimately be fulfilled. How the Final Four and then the fifth play into that? They had no idea where earth was, only that the viper had something to do w/it. So, have they really led them to Earth yet? Well, not the earth where they can find their new home anyway.
Perhaps it is not earth they seek? All I know is that Gaeta is becoming a stronger candidate for the fifth, remember the suffering part of that prophecy? I think it may be him afterall, as Helo seems likely, but Ron has said no one in that final supper photo is part of the final 5. Plus, D’Anna knew Gaeta, well, as he was always by Baltar’s side; mmmm.
But so many questions? Hera is becoming like the child prophet, seeing the future, but how? She doesn’t seem too happy in the end, she seems to know that they are not home yet.
Plus that music, the singing, the song Gaeta sang, Roslin’s visions, what is up with all of that? I still that that Roslin, Kara, D’Anna, Caprica 6, Natalie, and Sharon have all been to the place between life and death, and that is what they see, and what always seems to be earth; perhaps that is the truth of the opera house? When Baltar and 6 go through those doors w/Hera, that is where the new race and world begins?
I can’t believe how long we have to wait for the next part!
Athena
July 17th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
I just wanted to say how impressed I am that we broke the 300 comment mark on this thread! Well done, there is some awesome conversation on here! And your comment made perfect sense, Lucian! And as usual, Adalla, great post!
~Matt
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:15 pm
Gotta be Gaeta for the final cylon. The situation on Earth is simple; there are not enough humans to perpetuate the species and the cylons do not have the biodiversity to sexually reproduce in an evolutionarilly sound manner, but they may have the numbers. Humans and cylons will replenish the human race. Why must Gaeta be the last Cylon? Well, each modern human ethnic group is represented by the revealed cylons, with the exception of the South Americans’ (I do not know the propper language for these things and do not intend to offend). Of the characters that would be potential cylons, Gaeta most fits that look. This logic appeared to me some time ago, and I initially believed that Kat was going to be our little toaster, but death has disqualified her. G’s singing in the infirmary (shy a foot in season 4) was also suggestive, simply because music’s been used before to indicate cylons. The four we’ve met of the final five were all resistance fighters as well, (Rosalind’s office girl was instrumental in the attempt to protect the cylon baby), this would be consistent with a Gaeta cylon as well.
September 15th, 2008 at 10:16 pm
Could Kara be a clone produced by the Cylons to mislead the fleet? Remember the surgery Kara had back at Caprica when she had the Arrow of Athena?
This might explain how Kara came back even though she “died” earlier. The fighter Kara was on was probably built by the Cylons to fool the fleet.
December 4th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
I propose that D’annas appology is to Tigh because she just spent ages interrogating and torturing him as he was a leader of the resistance on New Caprica , during which Tigh looses and eye. Then she sees Tigh is infact one of the final five and she feels very bad about what she has done for obvious reasons. I see no other and more to the point no need for other explanations for this though there are some ideas being floated about as to who and why she says “I’m so sorry ,I had no idea!”.
December 10th, 2008 at 10:15 pm
hello everybody
i have a little story. please tell me what you think.
humans and organic cylons destroyed earth. humans created metal cylons and then started mukking around with creating organics and did too good of a job. war broke out with between humans and metals and earth was destroyed. only a few humans knew that the 12 organics were created (that is the great sin the hybrid was talking about. humans creating organics to try to cheat death and cylons turning on their creators). the few humans left took the 12 organics and programmed them to find enough genetically sound children, put them in ships and sent them out to found a new colony. the 12 organics were caretakers. humans only had time to program 6 organics with all of earth’s history but each of the 12 having distinct parts of humanity including the worship of one god in order to end the religious waring that so plague us today. as the generations progressed on these ships humans began to worship their organic caretakers as gods because they never died or got sick like humans did. colonial gods are named after these caretakers. these humans eventually seeded cobol. now dig this: the eye of jupiter and the tomb of athena are not maps to earth but the route they took from earth. the 7 eventually left cobol after a few generations and humanity took hold on cobol. cavell partially erased the memory of the 4 and they were left on cobol to watch human progress while coming back to download information every hundred years or so. humans on cobol eventually returned to their old ways and cobol became uninhabitable so they had to leave cobol.they found a binary solar system and set up the 12 colonies throughout that system. the 7 stepped in again because the colonials had created the new metal cylons, they went to war just like on earth. they stepped in before the colonies were destroyed just like on earth. but their programing will not allow them to exterminate all humans. this fleet was to be just as on earth. cavell is responsible for the hybrid. he hates the 5 because he is not like them. he was the first organic but he was a template. not able to procreate and still bound by his original programming. the 11 that came after him are more biologically human than he is. the 12th is not in the fleet. #12 took another ship of children in the opposite direction from the 11 and the clue to where they went is on earth. in order to insure human survival 1 small fleet of ships were sent in another direction with the 12th organic. that is why the hybrid said “THIS IS NOT AN END BUT A NEW BEGINNING”. human and cylon becoming one race. humans and organics now can procreate and their life experiences can be downloaded into another body giving this new race immortality.
tell me what you guys think
bandcdwayne
December 10th, 2008 at 10:51 pm
i forgot to say
#6’s baby is not tigh’s but baltar’s. cylons can not procreate with each other. they need humans for that. don’t forget that they were boinking like rabbits on that base star. she probably knew she was preggers and that is why she went to the galactica. remember she said that ” our child( hers and baltar’s) would be born in that cell. if cylons could procreate then there would be no need for humans. again i think that earth humans created organic cylons in order to be able to download their minds into new host bodies and never die.
bandxdwayne
December 11th, 2008 at 1:52 am
bandxdwayne- You forget, two need to be in love. Baltar was no where near Caprica Six for months. Baltar did not love Caprica Six as she loved him. Love needs to go both ways. Tigh loved Six because she looked/reminded him of Ellen. Six loved Tigh because she (her model especially) needs/wants to love others. It is what they do. They love. Tigh loved Six and vice-versa; not always for the right reasons, but love nonetheless. Head Six said that the child would be born in that cell, not Caprica Six. Then, she went on to say that Sharon would bear their child.
December 11th, 2008 at 8:17 am
hey marlo
you are right about that. but the only thing i am and was hung up on was that two cylons procreating. if that is true, that’s spells the end of humans(at least human males). i keep thinking about hera being a preemi and we don’t know how long cylon gestation is. also cylons are still machines. we are looking at cylons in human sense. the females might be able to control their conception. cap6 does love baltar because she has a head baltar and same with baltar. cap6 is the only one truly that loves baltar. what you said about tigh and 6 can also be said baltar and 6. the whole crux of bsg is the human will to survive. if this is 6 and tigh’s baby, it will not or cannot survive. if you read my 1st post. i don’t think the colonials created the organics. i believe earth humans made the organics and their fail safe was that the organics cannot procreate. the only other thing i can think of is that the child will still be a hybrid since cylons still need human eggs, and that child will create strife between the cylons and humans because it will grow up thinking it was better than hera and nick because it has two cylon parents which will eventually end in another war.
every good show has to has to have a bad guy and since the cylon agenda is changing that child might be it.
it’s just a thought.