BSGcast: 4.15 “The Oath”
Gaeta’s Mutiny is on, and we’ve got murder on the Galactica… it’s like the start of Season two, Cylons not included. And that’s where all the terrifying goodies are. It goes without saying that we loved the episode, and watching one of our most beloved characters get on the wrong side of Adama made use both very uncomfortable. Now THAT’s good TV.
January 30th, 2009 at 9:03 pm
AHHH! I can’t wait!!! This has been a long week, waiting for this episode. From the previews, this eppy seems EPIC.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:09 pm
Not a cliffhanger! Haha that was awesome! Gonna be a long week.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:09 pm
Ok great episode! What I want to say actually is about Six and Ellen. Is it possible that Ellen is ,somehow an older version of Six? The reason I say this is her ,that is Six, affinity towards Tigh. He saw her as Ellen when she was in the brig. There are some similarities between the looks of both women and we know Ellen is a cylon of some sort. I just think that the 5th cylon is someone else and the Ellen angle is just to throw us off. I am not as elegant as others in my thoughts and explanations, but that is as about as close as I can get to explain my thoughts.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:11 pm
When/If the time comes, I would love the be the one who flips the switch to airlock Gaeta!
As for that other rapist SOB from Pegasus who was buddies with Thorn, I would hand him over to the Cylons so they could put him in their torture chair. I would ask the Cylons to keep him alive for as long as possible before granting him death.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:16 pm
What a frakking amazing episode. Totally loved it.
But NOOOOO! at next weeks preview. Yes, we get Tory, Leoben, Sixes, more Cylons next week (yea-AH!!!), but it says someone is dead….but that character can’t die. It looks like Tigh and Adama both die
January 30th, 2009 at 11:50 pm
Wow! I mean…wow! They wanted episodes to kill off people on the Galactica and I think that would take care of a few numbers….Where to start? Wow! No, said that, twice. We knew it was coming. Revolution. Amazingly I find myself liking Zarek better than I like Gaeta, not saying that I like Zarek, I just agree with him on certain things (as does Lee, which is a confusing character that is hateful of cylons, as he always does, e just lives to put up with them). Throughout the entire episode I kept saying, “No, Gaeta. Please do not do that…I felt sorry for you with one leg. Now I hope that Adama strangles you to death.” My one questions with the episode, where were the cylons in this? Not the ones they captured or the final ones, but did they know what was going-on on the Galactica? Now, I see something very strange in the episode: Nowart. I only say that because in interviews they (cast) say that he will play a prominent role in the final episodes (and I believe he’s in The Plan…hmmm). I don’t see his importance, yet, but I guess he could do something important, since he is still alive.
I loved how Starbuck just killed the guy and shot the other guy. It reminded me of Fifth Element, “Anyone else want to negotiate?” Gaeta’s slyness in the episode pissed me off. “Oh, that ship its nothing.” “Oh, fire. We should have it checked out… with marines to get in there.” Adama’s right, Gaeta won’t die with the honor that the one man did. Damn, they really killed people. Laird? did he die? I mean Zarek did hit him with a wrench. Racetrack. Another character I liked before this. They all hated Zarek, but what, some thought he was the lesser of two evils?
Why is everyone hating on Starbuck? Hot Dog was just pissed because of her comment so he had to hit an equally low-blow. She’s like Ellen, everyone accuses them of have sex with half the fleet. Speaking of Ellen. She should show up soon.
I felt the pain in Adama’s eyes before the door closed between him and Roslin. Heart breaking. However, good news. Adama and Tigh have guns! Where did Lee and Starkbuck go? They looked like they went through some ladder tunnel. Plan maybe? What did the other ships do when they heard the Roslin transmission? So many questions… to be answered next week. I felt like the episode went by too fast and I want more. Well, there is always next week: Blood on the Scales (hmmm, the blood on lady justice?). As we see, the end comes with a cost of blood, here’s another to the end. So say we all!
-Mario
January 30th, 2009 at 11:51 pm
What an amazing episode. I just really, really hope they don’t kill Adama in the next episode. That would just kill the show in my opinon. However it would bring Roslyn to the forefront to taking control of the fleet. Maybe this is a repeat of how the original humans split up to become the 13 colonies in the first place. If they say it’s going to happen again, what if the Cylons stay on earth (because they’d be the only ones who could handle the radiation) and the rest go off to other planets in the galaxy.
January 30th, 2009 at 11:52 pm
This episode was absolutely nuts.I am so pissed at Gaeta. Maybe if Adama was really corrupt or something I would have some sympathy for him. But We all know that Gaeta is just sick of being a comm/computer tech and wants some glory for himself. He said so in season two when Diana was posing as that news reporter. He said that he dedicated his whole life to being an officer and that he wasn’t satisfied where he was. geeze just totally selfish. Interesting thing about the fact that there is a secret between Gaeta and Baltar. Maybe that is why Gaeta was so interested in Baltar being guilty at his trial in season two. Not good to have black mail hanging around. I don’t think they are really going to throw Adama out an air lock. I think he will be saved at the las moment. I think that because thinking otherwise really annoys me. I just remembered something from season 2 that was never cleared up. When Kara was at that Cylon baby farm. What the heck was that second operation she got? Maybe that could have something to do with why she is so special now. how much would it suck if the other Cylon fleet suddenly jumped into weapons range. With the Galactica crippled with mutiny. Like Gaeta would really be able to command that thing. Besides he really doesn’t have any pilots or anything anymore except maybe a small group. I think that they could all be in a very tough position. Can’t wait for next week!!!!!!!!!
January 30th, 2009 at 11:56 pm
P.S. from mine right above ^
Scanner,
RDM said the six is not an older version of Six, and now I tend to believe. Six just wants love and to show love. It’s her model’s (human) flaw.
Oh, I almost forgot about the guy from Pegasus. Seriously, do these people think they can get away with this? Cavil’s cylons are looking for them and there is a basestar in their fleet and Galactica’s crew is in a mess. Oh, this looks promising for them….
-Mario
January 31st, 2009 at 12:04 am
“Where there is no vision, the people perish…” Proverbs 29:18 (KJV)
In the vacuum Laura created, Zarek speaks to people’s fears and anger… and it unleashes something beyond all their reckoning. All the petty angers & past grievances explode. The reporter who sets up Anders claims she can barely remember life on Caprica – yet she remembers every detail. In this utterly new post-Earth reality, the pain of the past has become even more acutely present (the friend of Thorn who taunts Helo, Baltar’s interactions with the President & Gaeta).
Fascinating how Gaeta chose to keep his love in the dark – deep down knowing things will spiral out of control. In the vacuum of leadership, everyone is so desperately lost. Zarek’s mongering of fear & anger has opened a Pandora’s box of dark emotions in everyone. Interesting thing about the story of Pandora’s box: it says that after all the terrible things escaped, one final thing emerged… hope.
January 31st, 2009 at 12:21 am
Please. Someone airlock Gaeta. I have went from pity of him to outright disgust and hatred. I want someone to shoot off his second leg, I want Baltar to “out” him (again) on what he was responsible for on New Caprica (Baltar alludes to it). I want Adama to personally airlock his sorry A$$ out the door right after Seelix. I want an episode called “Day of Reckoning” — where Zeus, err I mean Jesus, err, I mean Adama passes judgment on all who have done wrong and airlocks their sorry butts out the door one by one.
I have anger! I have never had so much anger after any episode of any show or movie I have seen! Frak Gaeta, shoot Gaeta and airlock his sorry behind.
Now, I feel much much better.
It was a frakking great show. Very un-RDM like in that it was an “in your face” episode with very little left to the imagination…just the breakdown of civilization, the loss of trust and the pursuit of absolute power through surrogates by Zarek the puppetmaster.
January 31st, 2009 at 1:20 am
Never has a show made me feel sadness, hatred, fear, anxiety and utter satisfaction all at once after each and every episode. That is what makes a great drama. This is why I love Battlestar Galactica. Nothing can frakking compare.
I never thought I would feel pure hatred for a fictional character, then I met Felix Gatea. He was a character I felt pity for. Now, nothing would give me more joy than to see his left leg blown off too. To bow down to a massive prick like Tom Zarek is a dick move.
Reckoning will be swift Gatea. Reckoning will be swift.
PS: F*ck You Felix Gatea, F*ck You Tom Zarek And F*ck All The Mindless Followers Of Zarek. I Hope You Burn Slowly In The Depths Of Hades.
PSS: Wow, I cussing out fictional characters. Only BSG, Only BSG.
January 31st, 2009 at 2:13 am
Awesome episode. So many ways things could go. So much anger at traitors. So many ways I’d love to off Gaeta. What happened to Hoshi, btw?’
Like Kristy said, about the cylons being able to withstand the radiation, what has happened on (old) Caprica, where they were already recolonizing it after the nukes?
And I bet Ellen comes back soon too. Her few lines in Saul’s flashback were quite the cryptic ones. “Everything’s in place” Sounds like she’s the mastermind behind some really long plot.
January 31st, 2009 at 2:54 am
You know, after tonight’s episode, I’m really starting to understand what (if I recall correctly) Edward James Olmos meant when he said these last ten episodes would be “hard to watch”. It’s not just the fact that characters we’ve all grown to love will probably get killed off (though that’s hard enough). What’s hard is seeing characters we’ve all grown to love betray us, disappoint us.
I cheered out loud at that, and I loved her line about how she’s died before and “death’s a bitch”, or something to that effect. I thought Racetrack would get it for sure…
*Spoilers Ahead*
I’m not just talking about Gaeta here (who has betrayed his oath, his Admiral, his lover and endangered the future survival of his species), I’m talking about other formerly “dependable” characters such as Racetrack and Seelix. I suppose their POV makes sense when you consider all they’ve been through, but it’s as if they’ve gone to the dark side, and you kind of lose all respect for them because of that. Just the fact that they’re on the same side as that rapist guard from Pegasis is enough to lose them respect. Seelix hooding Anders like that… I kind of hate her character right now.
But in a good way, and I suppose that’s why I love this show. The writing is so good that you do feel empathy for certain characters, while other characters piss you off. You actually get emotional about it. I’ve never felt that way watching Star Trek, and the fact that Galactica can do this kind of makes me feel sorry for Stargate SG-1 (which is sandwiched between two Galacticas).
Of course my favorite scene in the whole episode is when Lee is being manhandled, and he looks about done for, and then Starbuck breaks out the punishment!
And of course, who can forget the image of Saul MF Tigh carrying not one but two BFGs (Big Frakkin’ Guns).
I also remembered something Ron Moore said in a recent interview (or maybe it was a special) about how Adama and Tigh are like older versions of Butch and Sundance. I definitely got that impression during the final “last stand” scene.
I also thought it was funny that Baltar was the first one inside the Raptor. That was classic Baltar.
Oh, gods, it’s going to be a looong next week. I can’t wait! I wish I could just have an all-night marathon of the last seven eps right now…
“I’M COMING FOR ALL OF YOU!”
January 31st, 2009 at 3:00 am
Here is how I hope this BS ends. Gatea’s lover puts a gun to Gatea’s head and pulls the trigger.
January 31st, 2009 at 3:16 am
And another afterthought, Though I hope it’s not true what the guy said in the teaser about Tigh, in the last BSG Cast Matt and Nat did say Tigh’s storyline was looking nice with His Baby and the Best of Both Worlds, Well what happens to characters whose storylines resolve themselves.
January 31st, 2009 at 3:16 am
Some of these rebellious characters should know better. Some of them have been the good guys. Adama remembers that, and let the guy go. But Starbucks right – these rebels are even more dangerous to the fleet than the cylons were, in a way. The cylons acted to destroy creators they believed had enslaved them. These humans, on the other hand, are betraying friends, turning against their fellow travelers, and murdering the last remaining shreds of humanity when they know, first hand, that less than 40,000 is all that’s left of the human race. Every person who dies is 1 out of 40,000… 1 out of 39,999… And just outside of the fact that their actions are suicidal, I can’t get past the betrayal of it all. Some of these people should know better. I understand they couldn’t make a rebellion of just unknown, faceless thugs. But some of the traitors really surprised me.
Lee’s flash of irrational racism was surprising as well. Trying to blame Saul Tigh for the crimes of Cavil’s cylons shows the same lack of thought driving Zarek’s forces.
And Gaeta – I lost any compassion for him when he knowingly lied on the stand about Baltar. Why would he do that? Well, to cover up his dirty little secret from the webisodes. The one he stabbed Baltar in the neck to keep quiet. HE was the one responsible for the lists of prisoners to be killed, not Baltar. I hope Baltar exposes him, and Gaeta gets the justice he deserves from both sides.
I don’t see any nice way out of this…. Such a huge chunk of the Galactica crew was part of this rebellion – they can’t just execute all of them… can they? But do they dare keep murderers and traitors alive and in the fleet? What will the solution be? Exile? And if so – is this yet another thing that has happened before and will happen again?
I’m starting to worry they’re going to squeeze a resolution with Boomer, Cavil, and all the other evil cylons into just one or two episodes. I just don’t see how that will be a satisfying conclusion to the series. Maybe they will show up in the middle of the rebellion – with the fleet reeling and unprepared to defend itself, and with heavy losses sustained before they realize they need Adama back in power. I dunno – I just don’t want them to rush the end. They have to deal with an aspect of the crew, yes, but to just end the series without adequately dealing with the cylon threat, after the mini and the first 2 seasons, would be a cop out of massive proportions.
And next weeks preview had better be a big setup – like a trap or a surprise to keep the bad guys from knowing what’s really going on. I’m fine with dying heroicly – but it shouldn’t be revealed in a line of dialog in a promo. That’s no way to honor an actor or a character.
January 31st, 2009 at 3:30 am
Oo, Mr. Lovejoy I like that. Hoshi puts the gun to Gaeta’s ear, whispers “I loved you” and fires. That would be even better than Tigh, Starbuck, Tyrol, etc. getting to redo their season 3 airlock scene with him.
January 31st, 2009 at 3:42 am
Next week the Survivors number will probably be much reduced. And I had a horrible thought – what if at the end of the season the number of survivors is 12? Or 13? The significant numbers from the entire series – cylon models, number of tribes, or the number of unified tribes including cylon. That’s a horrible thought – but what if it comes to the point that the only survivors are the ones who made it onto the basestar? There are only 12 cylon models, because at the end of every cycle only 12 individuals get to survive? That would be depressing as hell – but clearly this series is not going to have any sort of a happy ending.
January 31st, 2009 at 4:29 am
This episode was insane. There has never been a moment in the history of the show where ive had so many mixed emotions and physical reactions to characters actions and the plot of the story in just one episode. I’m not someone who likes action, but this action was brutally emotional and had deeper levels of resonance that i just couldn’t help but enjoy and love it
Also, Is anyone else noticing that the events of the cycle are now repeating themselves closer together. The Humans and Cylons both swapped roles throughout several millenia (Cylons (most likely the lords) creating Humans, Humans creating cylons, etc). And now in the colonial era of the cycle, the humans get robotic slaves, robotic slaves realise they are oppressed and then kill they’re masters. Then on the Basestar, not 40 years later, the Cylons get robotic slaves and they turn on they’re masters (essentially). And soon after there is civil war (a bit like what happened on earth).
Now only a few months later, civil war is occurring in the colonial fleet. The events of the cycle are now repeating themselves closer together within the participants lifetimes and i assume this is the higher powers way of trying to break it. Am i going nuts or is there something to this?
January 31st, 2009 at 5:02 am
Man I just realised this show will piss me off no matter what now.
I don’t want anyone to die in the main cast but People are gonna have to now, FG may end up in a brig or running but death is likely , I mean if the web-series had happined in this episode as flash backs he’d be going to see Kat right now.
And So many others are likely to die…I’m just gonna be bummed.
And I have to agree with Kara, They(The little judas.JR’s) gota die, it’s the only way to survive.
I also think, and I know the preview for next week is clearly misleading cause that’s what previews are suppose to do but Maybe Tigh will die, and then he’ll show back up with both eyes and an Ellen.
Cause the 12 have to reunite, He returns with cavil and others?, maybe theres a special Resurrection hub for the final 5 hidden in the ships!?!They arn’t suppose to think of the final five, maybe that’s so they don’t find the hidden little Tigh’s room.
@TheOnes I agree With your hole idea.
And That’s also a Very Christian Thing, Signs repete More and more wich is a sign of the end!
January 31st, 2009 at 5:22 am
I think the best part of the episode (for me) was the return of a bad ass Starbuck–one who didn’t feel sorry for herself and lived for the moment. Was anyone else reminded of Season 2’s Resurrection Ship two parter with the reteaming of Lee and Kara? The whole “we can only count on each other” and working together to take down the enemy? I loved it.
And a theory for the preview from next week: Tigh is dead with the admiral standing “trial”–A lot of people are saying that it’s just misleading editing and neither are actually dead. BUT maybe Tigh is ACTUALLY dead and he needs to be dead in order for the 5th cylon (Ellen TIgh) to be resurrected. From Sometimes a Great Notion, Ellen says that everything is in place, and they will be resurrected together…is it possible that they can only resurrect when they are together and not alone? I also say this because I can totally see Tigh jumping in front of Adama to save him from the exploding grenade.
*Random Question* This is something that’s bothered me for a long time and I never really got an answer to…it’s probably totally irrelevant but why do they eat noodles (looks like udon noodles) with chopsticks? In the miniseries and early in season 1 and 2, there are scenes with Adama slurping up noodles with chopsticks while talking to Tigh…and Lee with a bowl of noodles when he approves of Kara’s proposal to return to Caprica. They don’t show this anymore most likely because of the food shortage…but why noodles? why not something else, like a sandwich? Are chopsticks more “exotic” and more appropriate to people who aren’t really human?
(This is probably just Lost Syndrome, where you find meaning in everything)
January 31st, 2009 at 6:39 am
It is said that the final 5 will will lead them all to earth.
In “Somtimes a Great Notion”, before Ellen dies, she tells Tighe that they’ll all be reborn.
I’m still sort of clueless as to how they’re all suppose to be reborn but it happened once, I think?
In the recent video, Matt and Nat talked about babies and I just remember back to the Opera House. When Baltar and Caprica were standing next to Hera’s cradle she says something along the lines of “it’s our baby” or “our future” (cant remember too well) but i think she means to say that Hera is the future of mankind, both Cylon and Humans alike.
What about when D’anna had the vision of the 5? She looked one of them in the face and said she was sorry and that she didn’t know. Who was she speaking to? Was it Ellen? Tighe? And Speaking of D’anna. She’s still on Earth! WHAT THE FRAK?! I don’t get that at all. Is her character dead to us now? There has to be something on Earth left for them to discover.
Ill post more if I think of anything!
January 31st, 2009 at 7:14 am
If you turn the sound up, I think you will hear Tigh’s jaw hit the ground when he sees Laura Roslin come out from Adama’s bedroom wearing a housecoat. The pregnant pause that followed, and Laura being nonchalant about it, just fed fuel to the humor. The perfect ending to the scene was Adama saying he would be home for supper and Laura’s sweet housewife reply.
There were a lot of triggers pulled in this episode – and not just by the mutineers.
• The coup d’état is underway.
• President Roslin is back.
• Starbuck and Apollo are back, as opposed to Kara and Lee.
• Adama and Tigh have made peace with each other and are fighting side by side to retake Galactica. I wonder if Tigh threw himself on the explosive to protect Adama. It would protect his friend and commanding officer.
The interaction between Roslin and Baltar was perfect. It was just enough to keep Baltar from being too cocky. And it was good to see the Chief helping with the evac.
From the previews, it seems clear that Roslin makes it to the baseship. Is she planning to launch a counterattack from there? If it was my call, I would arm a nuke and target it at Colonial One. Someone goes out the airlock, Colonial One is vaporized.
January 31st, 2009 at 7:46 am
That granade looked more like Flash Granade. So I think, no Tigh jumping to save Adama.
January 31st, 2009 at 8:46 am
@ Scanner: Ellen as an old six has been bounced around for a long time. I’ve come to reject that, because then we’d be back to wondering who the 12th model is.
@ Yvonne: Explain your reasoning that Tigh would have to die for Ellen to resurrected. We’ve never seen that before in this show – why now?
@ TheOnes: How and why would cylons create humans? Humans can make machines, and that’s pretty comprehensible. However making humans is infinitely more complex and difficult. I consider it more probable that we have a few humans and cylons surviving each cycle and repopulating.
@ weker1: While I agree that people have to die as a result of this mutiny, the challenge in any of these situations is to find a way that is as not brutal as possible to win out. It’s easier to kill all your enemies, but it is in the showing of mercy that we earn the right to survive – something that harkens all the way back to Adama’s speech, and featured prominently in the assasination attempts being canceled.
@ Jinx: I think Lee’s anger at cylons is 90% justified here, even though it is bordering on racism. Cylons killed 15 billion humans and shattered human civilization. If any of the main characters ever lose their righteous anger at cylons for that crime, then this show has lost sight it’s founding premise simply because they’ve made cylons more sympathetic to us than they have become to the humans of the story. The FF have taken ownership of their culpability in that as cylons themselves, and that is the responsible thing to do. If new information presents itself that aquits them, then great, but until then, It would be irresponsible to not confess corporate culpability in that crime – kind of like the communal guilt Germany feels about it’s WWII responsibility. While in a court of law you are innocent until proven guilty, the world of everyday moral judgments and interactions is far more messy, and demands things to preserve relationships that a legal system musn’t give to preserve its integrity.
In the end, the only way they can all survive is through forgiveness – humans forgiving cylons for wiping out their civilization, cylons forgiving humans for enslaving them, humans forgiving humans for revolt, and cylons forgiving cylons for revolt, and on and on. In lieu of forgiveness, the cycle of violence will continue to turn, though it cannot continue indefinately, for that would wipe out one or both peoples, and anhiliation isn’t a part of the cycles. Only forgiveness can precipitate the peacetime repopulation of peoples in this phase of this cycle – all this has happened before, and all this will happen again, again, again, again…..
Funny, that sounds a lot like the situation with Israel and Palestine come to think of it…
January 31st, 2009 at 9:25 am
It was a flash bang thrown into the room with Adama and Tigh, they are used to dissorientate etc.
BTW is that Captain Kelly (the guy trying to assinate baltar in the son also rises) leading the marines to capture tigh and adama?
January 31st, 2009 at 10:53 am
Tom, I couldn’t tell, but it might be. I think it’s safe to assume that most if not all of the mutineers hate Baltar, and therefore they would be more likely to release Captain Kelly. I had assumed that Kelly had been written out after the assassination attempt, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see him back in the cast because of the mutiny.
January 31st, 2009 at 11:19 am
That…was the most emotionally intense thing I have ever seen on TV. I suppose that’s a sign of how special Battlestar is, that we get so emotionally involved with it and the characters. I like that it started with a moment of humour, with poor Tigh’s bulging-eyed shock. It added a touch of lightness to an overwhelmingly dark episode.
Firstly, Gaeta: While I never liked him really from the beginning, and started hating him around season two when he rumbled Roslin’s election fixing, he has now moved to an unprecedented level of hatred. I think the reason nearly everyone is full of rage towards him is that, for me at least, it feels like a personal betrayal. His self-righteousness also really gets to me, and the way he lied to Hoshi and let him be led away to the brig. I would agree with the poster above who said Hoshi should be the one to shoot him, if only I didn’t already have a long list of people I’d like to do it. Maybe some kind of lottery?
Roslin and Adama: Their scene at the beginning had me giggling happily, it was nice to see them together finally. The thing I don’t get is why did Adama and Tigh stay behind? I know Adama said it was to make sure her raptor got away, but by the time the Marines arrived she was gone anyway. I hope Tigh and Adama don’t die, especially not at the hands of whiny Gaeta. I’m hoping Starbuck will pull off another rescue, it looks like she and Lee are still on Galactica.
Starbuck and Lee: Starbuck’s back! Finally some old school Starbuck action. I love the way she just shot that Marine and Skulls, she doesn’t mess around with warnings. I just wish she’d shot Connor too, in payback for the rebellion and trying to kill Baltar. “Follow me. Please.” I loved that line! And the one in the previous episode “In case you were wondering, I will definitely hit a cripple. Or anyone else.” We’re really seeing the return of the old, no-nonsense Starbuck from the early seasons. Lee, too, is finally doing something. He’s never really seemed to fit in with the Quorum, now he’s back where he belongs I can begin to forgive him for giving up his wings.
Helo and Sharon. If I could get my hands on that Specialist…. After all Sharon’s done for the Fleet, you’d think they’d leave her be. She’s made her loyalties clear time and again. And Helo! My absolute favourite, hitting him Once is enough to earn my undying enmity. I hope he teaches that Specialist a lesson he won’t soon forget. Well, actually, I hope it’s a lesson he’ll forget extremely quickly, if you take my meaning.
Sam and Seelix: I’ve been rewatching seasons one and two and I can’t believe I actually felt bad when Seelix got shot by the Cylons on Kobol, she’s turned out as bad as any Cavill. First wanting so airlock Starbuck (a cardinal sin) and now turning on Sam. So he doesn’t like you that way, it’s a slight overreaction to help get him beaten up and thrown in a cell. I know it’s established that she hates Cylons, but he was her friend, you’d think that might give her a moment’s pause.
Zarek: I keep thinking, if only Lee had shot him back on the Astral Queen, we wouldn’t be in this mess. After all, then he wouldn’t have helped Baltar win the election to that fiasco would have been avoided. The only problem is, then Roslin might never have made it back to Kobol without his help… I thought when Zarek helped Roslin on New Caprica that he’d maybe turned over a new leaf, but obviously not. Even though he’s the mastermind behind the rebellion, I still don’t Gaeta-hate him. After all, he’d never have managed this without Gaeta.
Another thing that just came to me: I was hoping throughout the episode that someone, anyone would rumble Gaeta’s plans, but I’ve realised, no one had any reason to suspect that the fire etc were all faked as part of a plot, because as Adama said way back in season 2, the ship is a family, and you don’t betray family (unless you’re Lee). Adama and co just assumed that everyone on Galactica was loyal, which they should have been. I liked that fact that we saw that not all of the crew are with the rebellion, that they’re fighting back. At least some still respect the Old Man.
Wow, that turned out a lot longer than I intended…
January 31st, 2009 at 11:59 am
I’ve got some more ample evidence for my theory, but first, some random thoughts. I don’t think there was a single frakin thing wrong with this episode, and I do believe we’re going out on the highest notes BSG has ever sung.
Anyone else find Starbuck’s ass-kickery COMPLETELY satisfying?! Gods, we’ve been waiting for a good season and a half for her to turn back into her ball-busting self, and she made her entrance with a bang….several bangs, in fact.
I have never had more respect for Adama in the entire life of this show. My GODS, he is a badass. He cold-stared Gaita down, not giving a frak whether or not he pissed him off enough to be shot, and told him that he would die with nothing. And I’d have to agree – despite the fact that you can STILL see Gaita’s point of view. And wow, Adama completely overpowering his own marine just after he refuses to continue and dares him to “grow a pair”. And he stays behind to die fighting for his ship, and to let humanity’s last hope escape. He couldn’t have done it any other way. I don’t think you could possibly get any more badass.
The verbal sparring between Roslin and Baltar was almost equally OSNAPish. Whoever wrote this episode (was distracted by the incredible events to catch the credit) deserves a frakin medal. All of the little things that you’ve always wanted, for example, Baltar to say to Roslin instead of being a spineless little frak.
Now, onto the clues. I’d say my theory is getting even MOAR support. Did anyone else check this out? We have Gaita from the last episode saying: “one day soon, there’s going to be a reckoning. And once again people are going to have to answer for what they’ve done.” And in this episode, we get several clues that point toward some kind of judgment after death. For example, what does Adama say? “When this is all over, there’s gonna be a reckoning. And live or die, it’s how you act today that’s gonna matter.” And of course there was Adama saying Gaita would die without honor. There seems to be a lot of mentioning of death and judgment. Maybe it’s just my bias talking (hoping my labors in constructing this theory weren’t wasted), but I’m 99.9% sure that death is coming for almost everyone, and that there is something more to death than simply an end.
On a final note: come on guys, there’s no frakin way Adama is dead. It was obviously a flashbang or something they tossed into the room. Yes, it would have been perfect if he and Saul were to die there, together. But it is too early to kill them off.
Oh, and might I add that this was the first episode of BSG evar to have my adrenaline going SO HARD that I started to shake. Congratulations to everyone who was involved with the production of this breathtaking episode, and I am more stoked than ever about the ending of this show. Already, season 4.5 is the best season ever produced.
January 31st, 2009 at 12:35 pm
I know Exactly what you mean Brian, my heart was pounding for pretty much all of that episode, I was thinking ‘Oh god, please don’t let them kill [name] most of the way through.
Another thing, Racetrack! What is she doing, siding with Gaeta? She and Kat were always my favourite pilots, now Kat’s gone she’s all I have left. I’m hoping, from her expression towards the end, that maybe she’s realised she’s on the wrong side.
January 31st, 2009 at 12:42 pm
The last episode was just set up for this episode to knock it out of the park. It had everything that makes BSG great. The whole time I’m thinking “which main character is going to die” knowing full well that RDM has no problem killing off important characters. No other show I know is like that and it gives it a real sense of danger and uncertaintly. You could say that only a red shirt (guy next to Adama in CIC) got killed in this episode (and some unnamed people off camera) but we’ll see about the next one. We know Adama doesn’t die and if Tigh dies I’ll be disappointed with whoever put it in the teaser for the next episode.
Poor Laird. His family is killed by Cain and then he gets killed in the mutiny on the Galactica. This guy can’t get a break.
Hot Dog has a part to play in this. We keep seeing him over and over and he is out there with the pilot who is supposed to blow up Roslyn’s ship. Maybe he will turn on the other pilot to save her ship.
Starbuck was awesome “I could do this all day” is one of the best lines in the show. She is back to the character I like to see.
January 31st, 2009 at 12:47 pm
I know! Poor Laird! I actually went NO!!! when Zarek wrenched him. And wtf, Skulls?! That was a pretty goddamn cold thing to say about someone after they’ve been murdered in front of you. You certainly deserved that frakin bullet.
January 31st, 2009 at 1:16 pm
I know some of you have thrown out the theory that come the end of the season we’ll find out that everyone is a cylon. I had an afterthought about this so don’t look too deeply into it – what if the final five were the progenitors of the entire 12 colonies? this would substantiate the idea that everyone is cylon and bring forth the mantra we keep seeing, “all this has happened before and will happen again.” i’m guessing that the entire fleet will be decimated and the final five and a few others will remain. they’ll find a star system with habitable planets, break from each other and repeat the cycle. sounds far-fetched, I know, but in the BSG universe anything’s possible, right?
January 31st, 2009 at 1:26 pm
I have just one thig to say. 5 years or so of BSG have all been worth it just to see Tigh hold a rifle next to Adama
January 31st, 2009 at 1:35 pm
What a fantastic episode!!! BSG hasn’t been this good since the first four episodes of season 3. This the best show on tv ever. The acting was superb on all parts
Gaeta- i feel sorry for him. He is like Dee in that he is so curropted by his experiences that he just cracked. But now he has gone too far and is willing to kill. – I love RDM for curropting such a great character, thats what makes this show so great
Zarek- I thought that he was done manipulating the fleet when it came to Baltar’s trial but apparently he is back to his old ways
Lee- I am so glad the he admitied that he still hates the cylons and doesn’t forgive them but is willing to work with them. I f he had told the coorum that , then he might have got them to side with him. I admire Lee so much. Everyone should just hand the fleet over to him, because he would know what to do.
Adama/Tigh- i think both of them will survive the next episode especialy Adama. If he goes he isn’t going until the very end
Ros- i’m glad to see her finaly getting back to the prresidency. she really does care and it shows. Remember that she cared about the fleet before she found out about the scrolls of pithia– also thoose scrools tell the journey to earth it doen’t mean that the fleet has to follow the exact same path, the scrools never speak of cylons following them and attacking them as they mande their way to earth
The Ship- we have been seeing more and more close ups of the battlestar and seems to be falling apart. I think that galactica is going to break down/ fall apart at the end of the show permantly
Kara- my fav character, it’s nice to see that she’s back in action, i missed the real her
January 31st, 2009 at 2:18 pm
Edward: you are so wrong. It was worth it to see him *dual-wielding proectile weapons* next to Adama after they completely pwned their own marines.
Dear gods, I’m still geekin out about this episode!
January 31st, 2009 at 2:40 pm
Here are my crazy theory’s: Gaeta is going to die next episode, Adama will take the ship back, and things will go back to normal.
January 31st, 2009 at 2:43 pm
Oh, and was anybody else suprised that that dude that attacked Baltar in “He that Believeth” is still alive? That Baltar follower pounded his head like five times with the handle of a mop bucket!
January 31st, 2009 at 2:50 pm
Execute Operation Valky… Galactica
I thought the episode was great, the reason why is because of the drama and links between all the various characters, I mean wow.
So Glad Starbuck decided to shoot Skulls, cocky little frakker got what he deserved, especially complaining about Larids loyalty. Oh and poor Larid, could his life of got any more frakked up.
BTW I’m just wondering whats gonna happen to everybodys fav Dr, I mean, whose side will he be on ? Will he get a free pass because of his Medical knowledge?
BTW Did this episode remind anyone of the season 2 episode Scattered? as this seems to be a direct mirror image of that episode, except its humans vs humans.
January 31st, 2009 at 2:55 pm
It is not the purpose of man to know the mind of god….
The producers have an interesting question before them. Do they resolve the series so that it WILL happen again, do they leave the story with a choice (the selection of the choice never to be known by the audience) or does it come to a final end.
The remaining humans and cylons divide into 12 breeding populations and settle on other planets while the “true blooded” humans leave for another planet a “true” earth with the the remaining basestar hybrid ranting what will be a new prophesies of pithia.
The final end must not leave a survivable lineage. They must be doomed to extinction.
The cylons (1 thru 12) and the humans just fight it out. The galactica and basestar destroyed. The archetype charaters dead. Just a series of communications messages from 13 ships asking if anyone is still out there.
Of course, you could have a scene where meetminor cast members meet in the galactica before the fleets are destroyed. As one tries to remove the debris from the other, the other says “It’s all right. Everything is in place. We’ll be together again”. Big flash as nukes go off everywhere…
P.S. unless Hera is a red herring, we need to make her life meainingful. I am working on it.
January 31st, 2009 at 3:18 pm
Okay,
The Lord’s of Kobol are selfish beings. Each cycle of human-cylon history creates a single “new” Lord of Kobol. This cycle created Hera just as the other cycles created the final five. One can argue that the original series created “Dr. Z” who is probably the cheif.
The Lords are re-constituting themselves until they reach 12. At that point they will build a new Kobol. And then the sequence of events in pythia will begin again. This series, as the original, is just minor sub-cycle necessary to build up to the major cycle.
That’s right. The series we have enjoyed so much is just the “birth pangs” of another LOK.
January 31st, 2009 at 3:26 pm
And then one more idea….
For Hera to be a LOK, she must possess great knowledge. She will consume all of man and cylon knowledge, emotion, hopes and dreams as the final act of ascending to LOK status.
I thought we needed a little “terrible infant”/vampire element to cover the gauntlet of genre.
January 31st, 2009 at 3:35 pm
I used to love Gaeta, but we all know what bitterness can do to a person. And I don’t hate him like most people do, but I can understand the reasons for why people hate him moreso than they would hate Zarek. In my opinion, Zarek is a terrorist by character, he doesnt change his spots and no one expects him too. But Gaeta betrays himself by committing this betrayal. I am most angry at him for that. You can tell that this mutiny is going to fail because he Gaeta is weak, a good leader he does not make. He struggles with decisions that Adama can make with pure certainty when the time calls for it.
I have this strange feeling that the final five are hybrids. I think that with this cycle going on between the two races, there eventually will be a unity between the two for a time, hence the mixed baby making. There is a feeling that both races need each other to survive: Cylons need that human seed, and humans need machines/technology, whatever else have you. What I wonder about is why this connection between the two. Why are humans and cylons tied together? Also, this mutiny will push an alliance with the cylons than stop it, Gaeta and Zarek have forced Team Pro-Alliance to physically ally with the Cylons as seen in previews of the next episode. Had there been no mutiny, I don’t think a strict alliance would happen, but now it seems inevitable.
*Not looking forward to seeing Tori, can she please just fade away?
*I want more Hybrid in this episode, will we get more ambiguous, ominous clues to this whole thing, or watch it play out in agony?
*I don’t think Six’s baby is going to survive to full term, and I have the Opera House vision to thank for that notion.
*Love Baltar’s Haircut.
January 31st, 2009 at 3:37 pm
I say have the rest of the fleet rally around Roslyn and jump away from Galactica. Of course get Adama, Baltar, the Cylons and company off first—not to mention putting Richard Hatch on Galactica. Then, for the final moment of the show, we see Hatch and Gaeta on Galactica as the non-renegade Cylons find them, launch nukes and (without the proper drives installed) they can’t jump away.
Or take Gaeta’s other leg, have him outed as a traitor and fraud and left to perish, alone and miserable. Bah—is it Friday yet?
Can’t believe I ever liked Gaeta…
January 31st, 2009 at 3:50 pm
Baltar was back in true form again this ep. I got a chuckle seeing the expression on his face when his followers continued to pander to him – his eyes screamed, “oh for frak’s sake, enough with the ‘you’re our savior’ crap.
January 31st, 2009 at 4:08 pm
@ gaseous clay: If everyone’s a cylon, then why all the talk about human vs cylon throughout? How could there have ever been a means of distinguishing cylon from human throughout? Cylons as the children of humanity?
@ thee_immortal_one: “The final end must not leave a survivable lineage.” So this’ll end with no one surviving at all? Thirteen surviving ships and Hera becoming a Lord of Kobol seems to fly in the face of that. I’m not understanding your thoughts really – can you rearticulate?
Now, did anyone notice that the wingman of the pilot ordered to shoot down the raptor is none other than Hot Dog? Anyone care to bet against my wager that Hot Dog’s going to ‘grow a pair’ and blow that fracker to bits? I mean, Chief’s on board that raptor too, so we’ve got that odd connection. Hot Dog’s connection with Starbuck as pilot, trainer, leader, and for probably saving him multiple times will put him on the side of the old guard.
Now, I think the fulfillment of the vision that Caprica, Athena, and Roslin have been having will come about. Caprica had that moment with Hera in the cell, Athena and Roslin are going to be powerless to save Hera, but Caprica might, and she’ll bring her into the opera house – whatever that last bit might mean.
Can I say a ‘here here’ to the return of Starbuck? She’s a purposeless wanderer without a gun in her hand. She seems to be driven stir crazy when she needs to trace the meanings of visions and higher plans – stir crazy to the point of demonstratively insanity. As soon as there are some people who need to die, then suddenly the blinders go on, the calm comes, and then people start dying… It is about time I say. She supplied the three best lines of the show in one scene:
1. “Take it from someone who’s already died once – it’s no fun.”
2. “I could do this all day – who’s next?”
3. “Follow me. Please.”
She should have just killed them all right there – three quick shots. She probably didn’t because she’s been working on those lines for four seasons, just in case of a mutiny.
I’ve always liked Helo – Even compared to Apollo, he’s the clear “White Knight in shining amour” of the series, a force to be reckoned with, but not needing to live in the spotlight. He’s in jail for being as much – again! Counting occupied Caprica and Pegasus, this is the third time he’s been in jail, and with the Sagiteron story, pulling a gun on Apollo at their first meeting, fighting the chief over Sharon, and killing the infected cylon prisoners, this is the seventh time he’s been willing to turn against the majority human side for what he thinks is right. To top it all off, don’t forget that he took out Apollo during the boxing episode. Come to think of it, Helo and Apollo are both names related to the sun – and they are more alike than dissimilar come to think of it. Neat…
I was surprised to see Adama and Tigh not make a run for it, but then it made sense – a captain shouldn’t leave his ship. They’re going to threaten to airlock the old man in the next episode methinks.
RDM talked in the podcast about how the Galactica has always been undermanned, even from the beginning. I’ve never really been under that impression except during the beginning of the 3rd season, when they were all on New Caprica. I assumed that with the Pegasus crew coming aboard, that they were more than fully manned, especially in the arena of pilots. Interesting bit of info that’ll help make sense of how Starbuck and Apollo will evade capture in 4.16 and kick ass in 4.17.
January 31st, 2009 at 4:27 pm
I think my favorite awkward silence bit in the episode is where Adama and Roslin are kissing in front of everyone else. Lee and Starbuck can’t look at each other.
January 31st, 2009 at 6:12 pm
I have to say that seeing Gaeta grow a set has been a long time coming. It’s another one of those times where you wanna hate the son of a bitch but, you just can’t because there’s some truth in his thoughts there as well. Either way I do believe Gaeta will be reckoned with post haste. He’s air lock bait!
I think using Seelix and Racetrack in the mutineer roles was cool. To give the audience the sense of desperation in the fleet they had to use some minor yet respected characters to drive that home.
I can’t stand what they’ve done to Baltar! Of all the characters that have developed and matured, his was the best. They spent so much time and effort in his redemptive struggles and in his attempts to forgive himself and become a beacon to the weary. He’s now been relegated back to being a cowardly, sniveling and self-preserving idiot! Why? In my opinion they’ve destroyed Gaius’ character.
Starbuck totally rocked this ep! It was so good to see that fire in her eyes again! Her and Lee are a two person wrecking crew and Starbuck in particular is destined to play a huge role within the next 2 eps…HUGE!
Seeing Tigh with two assault rifles was frakking awesome! Adama and him looked like they could take on the entire fleet and win! When this is done and Apollo asks “Where’s my father?” I want Tigh to say “down by the river, walking on water!” All of these mutineers are so frakked… “NO FORGIVENESS!” EJO totally delivered a powerful performance there! This mutiny will continue til the end of next weeks ep when I believe all of them will reconcile due to the arrival of Cavil’s forces.
January 31st, 2009 at 6:31 pm
Something else I noticed, was when Geata was taking over the CIC he ordered all senior staff to be taken to the brig. Including Hoshi, his boyfriend. WTF? So now he’s turning on people he cares about? I think that what the 8 did to him in the webisodes and on New caprica really Frakked him up. She used his trust and good intentions against him to kill the people he cared about. I think that is part of why he is it the one leading the mutiny. He probably sees himself in Adama, sees him as a niave trusting fool that will get them all killed by trusting any of the cylons. When in fact its all about how he sees himself. Like he’s trying to make up for the mistake of trusting that 8. On one hand I feel compassion for him but on the other, he has now become very dangerous. The only up side to the mutiny seems to be that it’s given Kara a reason to fight again. It’s like she’s been stewing for a long time and finally has the battle she needs to get out all her frustrations. Especially towards those who treated her badley when she first got back from Earth.
January 31st, 2009 at 6:34 pm
@signa,
Paragraphs 3, 4 and 5 are the three possible outcomes, mutually exclusive.
paragraph 3 is they divide up and start the cycle again.
paragraph 4 is they all eventually die and end the cycle.
paragraph 5 is where they may or may not have a survivable lineage but we will never know.
But my best prediction is that everything is done to create Hera. Humanity is expendable again and the cycle starts to create another LOK with the new cylons talking about the final six.
P.S.
Accept it. There are no happy endings in space (even when Starbuck appears in the Cinderella dress in the last scene of the series).
January 31st, 2009 at 6:59 pm
“# Pro Says:
January 31st, 2009 at 2:40 pm
Here are my crazy theory’s: Gaeta is going to die next episode, Adama will take the ship back, and things will go back to normal.”
That is not only a crazy idea but it should be like that because ain’t no way the SCIFI network is going to paid the actor full salary like Edward James Almos. In the preview for next week’s Zarek said that Tight was killed? come on does anyone believes that they would air a major spoiler like that in the commercial? Laura Roslin is going to be kicking some ass with the Cylons on her side. Can’t wait to see Centurians taking down the traitors in the halls of Galactica because that will make a great visual storytelling.
January 31st, 2009 at 7:18 pm
Just noticed smth… Rebel basestar – still looks like hell… next week preview – a basestar in perfect condition… Cavil’s back and with perfect timing…?
January 31st, 2009 at 7:36 pm
First and foremost: I am extremely glad the story arc is back. Self-contained episodes simply don’t work on a series so dedicated to story continuity, and I feel it have the series a cheaper feel.
Secondly, I feel that this episode recaptured the tense, I-have-no-idea-what’s-going-to-OH SHIT- happen feel that makes BSG great, and was lacking in much of season 3.
RIP Laird, you poor, sad motherfrakker. I knew that when he was poking around Gaeta and Zarek and not buying their bull he was dead. But it still hurt. Lots.
As much as it has been said already, the opportunity of seeing Starbuck, Lee, Tigh and Adama kick ass was enough to make any true fan giddy. After Adama spat out the word “Marine,” while being led away, I knew those two mutinous bastards were dead. To see Tigh just push the marine over, and Adama blow his brains out was satisfying in the extreme.
I would like to see Hoshi blow Gaeta’s brains all over the place. Either in the sensitive, “I love you,” method already mentioned, or in the “You’re not my type,” love-betrayed Cain style.
I know Adama isn’t dead. He was seen in the trailer for next week. Besides, its far too early for the Old Man to die.
The ending of this series won’t be anything supernatural, time travel related, or out of the blue. It’s going to be hard, painful, and make perfect sense. Either way, expect the writers to pull a hard six on us all.
Godly episode.
January 31st, 2009 at 7:37 pm
First off, this episode was frakkin’ amazing! I can’t wait to check out next week.
Now, onto my rant:
Gaeta- He’s pretty much sign his own death warrant. Once Adama gets his ship back, Gaeta is either gonna get placed against a bulkhead and get a bullet to the back of the head or he’s going to get vented out into space. I don’t care if what he thinks he’s doing is the right thing, he’s really doing the wrong thing. Not only that, he’s risking the whole fleet.
Zarek- I hope that after Adama, after he’s through with Gaeta, he and Roslin throw Zarek’s self-righteous ass out an airlock. That SOB has caused more problems than any other reoccurring character in the show. After the whole situation with the private trials and spacing those that collaborated, that Roslin would have kicked his ass out the vice president seat and assigned someone else. Adama’s not gonna take Zarek’s crap anymore.
Adama- All I can say I am not going to be referring to Adama as Admiral or Adama any more after this episode. I am officially going to be referring to him, from here on out, as “Billy Badass”. Seriously, Adama was on his A-game in this episode after headbutting that marine and taking the guns. Plus, the way he was holding the machine gun in one hand and a pistol in the other, invoked visions of the classic cowboy The Man with No Name and any John Woo character. And when he fired the machine gun, he didn’t blink, unlike most of the young characters. Adama, you are now “Billy Badass!”
Roslin- All I can say in relation to Roslin is this: She finally took Adama’s advice. She “got off her fat ass” and is apparently climbing back into the president seat. And it’s about frakkin’ time, too!
Starbuck- Granted, we may not know what she is right now, but I can say one thing, she is back to her old self! I just loved how she was busting Hotdog’s chops at the beginning of the episode. Plus, when she save Apollo’s ass, it was classic Starbuck (”Frack you!” POW! “I can do this all day.”). I will admit, she may looked a little bit insane when trying to shoot the marine that was Adama’s prisoner, but you have to think about it like this: because that marine mutinied against the old man, he is an enemy. And by releasing him, not only is is tactically stupid (because that Marine probably squealed to Gaeta that Adama and Tigh overtook him and escaped) but that’s another enemy that Starbuck, Apollo, Adama and co. will now have to face again later. Easier to either kill him or to put a bullet in his kneecap to keep him from re-joining the fight.
Hot Dog- Now, people are questioning if Hotdog will shoot down the Raptor. First off, if you pay attention to next week’s episode, Roslin’s on the Basestar, which means that the Raptor wasn’t shot down. Second of all, if anything, I think that Hot Dog is going to shoot down Narcho (whom Gaeta had given the instructions for shooting down the Raptor to. Hotdog is not crazy, or stupid enough, to betray the uniform. He’s going to shoot down Narcho to keep him from killing the President).
Apollo- All I can say is that, much like Starbuck, it’s frakkin’ good to see the old Apollo kickin’ ass. It invokes visions of Season 2’s “Valley of Darkness” for me.
Anders, Athena, Helo, Hera and Caprica- This is so not looking good for them, especially with that SOB from the Pegasus. I’ve got a feeling we’re going to get something worst than Athena’s rape/attempted rape by Thorn (depending on the cut of “Pegasus” from Season 2) for all of them. Who knew there were a lot of Toaster haters on board Galactica? And were the Fleet informed that the planet they found was full of Cylons and not humans? You would think that would show how alike they were. Just a thought, of course, no need to proceed further.
Next week’s episode- Now, I don’t think Zarek is bluffing this time around when it came to saying that Tigh is dead. But I will say this: I will not be surprised if Adama gets the Galactica back, and I will not be surprised if he gets killed. Why? Because Adama’s cool enough to get his house back in order. And when it comes to Moore and Eick, killing off Adama would be an announcement to all the fans, “Hey, guys! Guess what? Adama’s dead! ALL BETS ARE NOW OFF!” What do I mean by that? By killing off not just a major character, but one of the most important characters in the show, it’d be saying that it doesn’t matter how important the character is in the scheme of things, all characters big and small are officially on the chopping block and may get killed. Now we finally get the context a bit of Roslin’s comment “I am coming for all of you!” I bet that if Adama dies, she’s going to have a reckoning that will make Zarek’s private trials and executions of collaborators look like a cakewalk in comparison.
MAN, I can’t wait for next week’s episode!
January 31st, 2009 at 7:47 pm
@ John Q. Frak: “The ending of this series won’t be anything supernatural, time travel related, or out of the blue. It’s going to be hard, painful, and make perfect sense.” I agree. I’ve been arguing for that, but you put it far more concisely than I have ever been able to.
Also: “this episode recaptured the tense, I-have-no-idea-what’s-going-to-OH SHIT- happen” Again – right on, here here!
@ Adam: “This mutiny will continue til the end of next weeks ep when I believe all of them will reconcile due to the arrival of Cavil’s forces.” Can’t help but agree with you – or at least that would be the best/worst possible time for Cavil to come back, and boy it’d be compelling. Good thought.
@ thee_immortal_one: Okay, thanks for the clarification. I disagree with them, but I see the ideas now.
January 31st, 2009 at 7:56 pm
@ CB2001: My hunch is that Adama won’t die next episode, and I hope that Saul will survive long enough to get slapped by Ellen for sleeping with Caprica. However, the (premature) public announcement of their deaths will be what pushes Laura to bloodthirst. Do you think that jives with the preview?
January 31st, 2009 at 8:03 pm
WAITAMINUITE!
Okay, I’m going to triple post – sorry all.
We have a few youwillknowthetruth scenes unaccounted for, and, everyone, lets remember that Gaeta and Baltar were in a room together, and that there was a scene in which someone was coming out of a Raptor, and their identity shocked Laura.
Ellen’s reapearance could approach this, of course. I’ve assumed that was it for a while.
However, what could shock her more than Gaeta defecting from the mutiny he started? It’s get him in the same room as Baltar, and in a show that deals with as much strange stuff as this, what could be stranger than that?
Run with it……
January 31st, 2009 at 8:04 pm
MichalM & Tom: Thanks for the pickup that this was a flash grenade.
Tigh may or may not die. It could be that Zarek has bad information. If he does die, I hope that it is a good tragic hero ending for him. This would be proof to the fleet that he was loyal to Adama. Either way, Roslin is going to make sure that Zarek has a very bad day.
It really is good to see Starbuck and Apollo back in action. Kara & Lee were not as strong. I think they finally realized that they are, at heart, warriors. I think we will see Starbuck and Apollo rescue the Admiral in a violent gunfight. That may be where Tigh dies, if he does.
CB2001: I am not as sure that I agree with you about the Cylons in the Brig. There are 2 hybrids present, if you include Caprica’s baby. There may be enough ability between them to access Galactica’s systems and help end the mutiny.
I agree that Hot Dog is going to shoot down Narcho. He is loyal to the uniform and the constitution, not Zarek.
del: I agree that the Grand Old Lady is reaching the end of her days. There is a scene teaser posted at youwillknowthetruth.com of Adama washing his face in his quarters, then turns and sees the bulkhead ripping apart. The ship may be a warrior, but her time is comming. Perhaps she will be used in a Pegasus-like suicide run against Cavil’s basestar. That would be an honorable way for the ship to die. Far better than being a seldom-visited museum.
January 31st, 2009 at 8:08 pm
1. Has Gaeta been airlocked yet? Sorry, just have not gotten over that anger!
2. Adama as the badass. Heck Ya! Remember how amped he was during Razor when he saw Columbia destroyed and then went after the two cylons on his own? I think in his time he was a badder a$$ than Kara Thrace.
3. I just read a great interview of the writer for this show on the Chicago Tribune site followed by a very good breakdown of the show by the writer who it turns out is a BSG maniac. Here it is:
http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/01/battlestar-galactica-oath-adama-roslin-tigh-gaeta.html?cid=146850396#comments
4. Please airlock Gaeta’s sorry A$$ right now (wait, shoot his good leg first, then airlock the traitor).
January 31st, 2009 at 8:17 pm
Gaeta defecting back to Adama/Roslin… That might buy him life in the brig instead of the unnourishing meal of vacuum he deserves.
Baltar & Gaeta together. I could see Baltar trying to convert Gaeta – listening to Gaeta as he unveils the emptyness & anger of his life.
Signa jade: Based on the teasers, I am expecting another Kara Thrace or to come off the Raptor. Not as a Cylon but as a clone. That would go to the scene in the pilot’s quarters of them someone saying, “You can’t explain this away…”
January 31st, 2009 at 8:51 pm
Mr. Lovejoy said: Here is how I hope this BS ends. Gatea’s lover puts a gun to Gatea’s head and pulls the trigger.
Right on Lovejoy! I wholeheartedly agree withyou!
January 31st, 2009 at 8:54 pm
Love has blinded Adama: his recent tryst with Laura (combined of course with the deception of finding Earth) dulled his wits enough for Gaeta’s plan to work. It was only when it was too late and all the mutineers were in position that he realized that the fire was not real. He sees clearly for a moment when he sends a enlisted man to investigate, but his clarity again subsides when he is eventually reunited with Laura in the auxiliary air lock. He could have gotten away if he hadn’t been so focused on his personal feelings for the president. Don’t be surprised if next week we find out that he has been truly blinded by a flash grenade and that the white blindfold over his eyes during the execution are actually bandages. He may recover his physical sight, but the old man, like his ship, is reaching the end of his useful days. They may both have one more fight left in them, but after that their light will go out forever.
January 31st, 2009 at 8:57 pm
Signa Jade- I agree, I don’t think Adama will die, but like I said, I won’t be surprised if he doesn’t and I won’t be surprised if he does. That’s one of the things that I’ve come accustomed to when it comes to watching the show. In fact, I wasn’t surprised that the Final Cylon was Ellen Tigh (TBH, I really didn’t care about the whole Final Cylon hype to really care who it was and wasn’t anyway, but I was not surprised to find out it was Ellen).
Shauna- About the Cylons, granted I didn’t count Caprica’s baby, but that’s the least of the issue on the topic. But there is one flaw in your theory: They have to be out of the cell and near a computer in order to get access to Galactica’s systems. I doubt that the mutineers would be stupid enough to allow that, especially with the fact that they remember when Athena patched herself into the computer systems in Season 2’s “Flight of the Phoenix”. Besides, we don’t even know if Anders has that ability or not. But I’m telling you, I’ve got a bad feeling when it comes to those in that cell.
And of course Hot Dog is going to shoot down Narcho (or at least get in Narcho’s way to keep him from shooting down the Raptor). That boy ain’t stupid enough to go against the uniform. He’s stupid enough to enter a fight that everyone knows he can’t win (remember when he called up Starbuck in “Unfinished Business”? He got his ass whooped) if it means to doing the right thing.
January 31st, 2009 at 9:28 pm
A. Saul is dead. Saul will be resurrected. He will return with Ellen, and he’ll know what’s going on. Zarek said that he’s dead, and there’s an easy way for him to get back, so.. he’s dead. -ish.
B. Too early for Adama to die, but stranger things have happened. It would reorient power dynamics for the whole show in fantastic ways. But he’s not dead. Yet.
C. Is D’Anna really on earth. Seriously? That’s lame.
January 31st, 2009 at 9:41 pm
Cavil’s fleet will show up sometime soon. Imagine this scenario: Half of the Colonial fleet sides with Roslin
as she returns with the rebel Basestar. Cavil’s fleet jumps in right in the middle of the Colonial civil war,
not knowing what’s going on.
Roslin’s Basestar and her Colonial allies immediately jump away to some pre-agreed
position. The Galactica under Gaeta’s command can’t even raise a token defense.
Sensing that something is amiss,
Cavil doesn’t immediately destroy Galactica, but boards it with Centurions, Fours and Fives. Finding out what happened through
interrogation, Cavil devises “A Plan”.
He coopts the mutineers, convincing them that the Ones, Fours and Fives were
always against the Holocaust, and the Holocaust was the idea of the “Bad Cylons”, namely the Twos, Threes, Sixes and Eights.
Of course, the memories of the New Caprica experience (where the Cavils, Simons and Dorals didn’t play so nice)
aren’t completely forgotten, so it only takes a few episodes for
Cavil’s plan to fall apart. In the meantime, the two fleets, composed of opposing groups of allied Humans and Cylons have
running battles while everyone reconsiders their where their respective loyalties lie.
For extra fun, Cavil’s Centurions will get their telencephalic inhibitors remotely disabled, giving them the chance to participate.
Cavil’s refusal to even discuss the Final Five with anyone will bring about his eventual downfall.
With Cavil gone, Humanity and Cylonity can live finally live in peace. Until the next cycle begins yet again.
Oh, and one more thing. (Two actually). Roslin finds out she’s pregnant and that her cancer is in spontaneous remission.
January 31st, 2009 at 10:03 pm
Okay, doublechecked that video from youwillknowthetruth. It’s on the Galactica, so my idea about it being Gaeta falls through. My bad – should have checked.
@ Shauna: That scene was from aboard the Demitrius. It was Selix. It’s already happened.
@ Jennifer: I get the impression that the D’Anna thing might have been something to do with the actress rather than the overall plan. I agree – she shouldn’t have given up so easily.
@ CB2001: I was with you on Ellen as the FC – she was on my short list. Never my enthusiastic pick, but always near the top. And you’re right, it being Saul and Ellen resurrected would make a lot of sense.
@ Nate: Adama stayed behind because the Galactica’s his ship and it wouldn’t be right for the commander to flee his own ship.
January 31st, 2009 at 10:29 pm
I thought this episode was great lots of action, emotion, intrigue, and lot of intense character moments a very good episode in my opinion. However I find the hate directed towards Gatea and Zarek revolution is a wrong. I mean all they are doing is standing up for the people of the fleet who do not want to be forced at gun point yet again to do something they do not want to. Come on I expect anyone out there to be loyal or civil towards a cruel and savage enemy like the Cylons who have destroyed everything that the people of the fleet have ever loved and cherished such as homes. families, friends, lives, and so much more and a hypercritical and authoritarian government the Roslin regime which ignores the true needs and wishes of the people in order to follow some pointless religious legend at the expense of the people.
I think Gatea and Zarek have taken the only logical option left to them to remove this corrupt government and restore good government and democracy to the fleet. Although the betrayal of Adama was a little sad as I really like the character and the fact that he has spent the last 4 years fighting for the fleet. However in the defence of Gatea and all the other revolutionaries he betrayed them first twice: (1) by conceding to give full citizenship to the Cylons who have taken everything away from the fleet and now they want to take the last thing they have humans identity and he was going to let it happen. (2) by using force against the people of the fleet against their will to first accept technology from a genocidal enemy who has spent the last 4 years hunting and killing them and second let these people on board their ships. In my opinion he broke the oath to his people first they just responded in-kind.
I just hope that in the next few episodes Gatea and Zarek are not killed off by the loyalist forces of Roslin and that the revolution succeed in bring down the corrupt government and a new government can be established. However one that isn’t led by Zarek or Gatea because I don’t think they are what the fleet needs in terms of leadership material. I think maybe a civilian government headed by Apollo as president and Zarek as vice-president and the command of the Galactica falling to Halo with Gatea as his XO I think this would be a good mix of personalities and abilities to first provide good stories in future episodes and second provide good leadership which will look out for the interests of the fleet and its people. Any way these thoughts are just my opinon on the matter look forward to the next 7 episodes.
Long live the Gatea and Zarek revolution!
January 31st, 2009 at 11:14 pm
Signa Jade- I think you misinterpreted my statement. I was saying that I not only wasn’t surprised by the fact that Ellen was the Final Cylon, but the fact that I didn’t really care about the whole “Who is the Final Cylon?” hype in general (in other words, I didn’t care to know who the Final Cylon was and I honestly wasn’t surprised that it was Ellen). In fact, I think it would have been better to never reveal who the Final Cylon was, even after the show was completed (the reason behind this rational: For a show that prides itself in being on some sort of level of realism, in real life, not all questions are answered or can be answered, not all wrapped up in a neat little package with a bright red bow). Of course, that’s just my opinion.
February 1st, 2009 at 12:54 am
Like others have thought, I do think in the end we will find out that everyone is a cylon, but from different cycles. In the spirit of, ““all this has happened before and will happen again,” I think the seven most recent models are obviously the most recent, then the “final 5″ are from one cycle earlier, and then…get this…I think Kara and Baltar are from an even earlier cycle (because I think Balter actually died during the attack on Caprica). I think each cycle of cylons resurrects in a different way/place.
February 1st, 2009 at 12:56 am
In the post above, I should have typed, “I think the EIGHT most recent models…”
February 1st, 2009 at 1:02 am
CB, they couldn’t have gotten away with not revealing who the final cylon is. A lot of people were worked up about it, and a lot of people were disappointed and for some reason surprised it was Ellen. Not that there weren’t other suspects, but there was compelling evidence against her all through Season One. If they’d failed to answer the Final Cylon question, fans would have been furious, and said that they failed to reveal it as a cop-out in case they wanted to ressurect the series at a later date. They effectively ended the debate here and now – the final cylon’s revealed and its someone who is dead, so the case is closed. The only problem is that people have gone from postulating that Sharon and Helo’s baby is somehow inexplicably the final cylon to Tigh and Caprica’s baby somehow inexplicably being the final cylon, somehow not noticing its essentially the same theory with different characters. Some people just *need* it to be convoluted, so I’m glad they addressed the issue right in the first episode back. Not that it’s stifled the debate any.
February 1st, 2009 at 1:11 am
Jinx- Like I said, it’s just my opinion and I know a lot of people disagree with it. Won’t discuss it any further.
February 1st, 2009 at 1:12 am
@Pavalov’s God: How dare you! That wasn’t some nameless redshirt that died, it was Jaffe! Jaffe brings Adama coffee! You dishonor his name!
February 1st, 2009 at 2:41 am
Okay guys, since I know collectively together we are the encyclopedia Galactica so could some please explain some things for me, now that I have thought about them.
1. The reveal that Ellen was the fifth and that next week Tigh (hopefully not) could die. Some of these posts state that they could be reborn somehow, how can this happen without massive retcon? I thought once the ressurection ship was destroyed that the cylons were now like humans and once they died, they died for good, that there was no more possible ressurections?
2. Is Gaeta crazy? I know he hates the cylons and any thought of an alliance with them but He has now seized the Galatica with a few functional vipers and severely depleted weapons stores and a conn officer who can’t even triangulate a signal coming from inside their own ship versus a fully loaded with several nuclear warheads basestar with a full complement of raiders. and His only bargaining chip is 5 cylons.( I think the first thing Rosylin will do is nuke colonial one and that frakker Zarek, it is a civilian crusier with no armor, very blow-upable.)
Thanks
February 1st, 2009 at 5:14 am
Now before I do some serious writing on here I need to watch it again on my DVR when I get home from work. I do however want to address a comment I saw about Adama and Tigh getting killed. The grenade that was tossed in to them was what is called a flash bang. Granted they can make it past that without getting stunned like they are designed to do but I think they will just be stunned and taken prisoner again. I don’t think it is time for them to die just yet.
My favorite scene was with Starbuck. Gods she turned from a basket case to a true warrior. I love how she came in shooting and then told Adama that this is no longer his crew, they are his enemy. Classic lines there that will go down in SCI-FI history.
Well that is all for this round. I have had little sleep the last couple days and need a nap when I get off work this morning then I’ll watch it again. OH BTW this was my first time watching Battlestar in HD, it was great!
February 1st, 2009 at 6:58 am
I am not prepared to write a lot about this episode, but I just wanted to say that I thought it was pretty intense and reminded me of the stuff from season 1. This might end up as one of my favorite episodes… at least in the top 20.
My favorite scene of the season has to be when Starbuck started blasting people in the hangar. Though, I think it could have been even more epic had she shot Racetrack. 
Oh, and if Tigh dies next week, then my prediction that all five have to die before they can all be reborn might just take the cake.
February 1st, 2009 at 7:00 am
Strange… seems like my comments are not posting.
February 1st, 2009 at 7:00 am
Let me try this again:
I am not prepared to write a lot about this episode, but I just wanted to say that I thought it was pretty intense and reminded me of the stuff from season 1. This might end up as one of my favorite episodes… at least in the top 20.
My favorite scene of the season has to be when Starbuck started blasting people in the hangar. Though, I think it could have been even more epic had she shot Racetrack. 
Oh, and if Tigh dies next week, then my prediction that all five have to die before they can all be reborn might just take the cake.
February 1st, 2009 at 7:00 am
Signa Jade – Thanks for the correction. Oh, the joy of watching BSG when you don’t have cable at home! You miss a lot.
Is it better to destroy Colonial One or retake the ship? If you retake, you would HAVE to use Colonial troopers. The use of Cylons would only add fuel to Zarek’s rebellion.
What to do with the mutineers? Maroon them on Earth? Cram them all onto a rebellious civilian transport and leave them behind?
Starbuck and Apollo always seem to be at peace with themselves whenever they are in battle. The universe suddenly makes sense to them. They don’t second-guess themselves. In terms of great lines…
“Take a breath Lee. It feels good to be alive, doesn’t it?”
“What the hell was that?”
“Feeling right for the first time in weeks!”
February 1st, 2009 at 11:16 am
In response to Jinx:
You are absolutely right that some people need it to be convoluted. And, when you stop and think about it, its not hard to rationalize that need; with any story as dense as BSG, some things make sense only if you have seen and remembered the most obscure of events. If you don’t you might try to rationalize, and those usually end up way out there.
Continuing on the convoluted tangent, I must further insist on my previous statement. The ending of BSG will not be anything supernatural, time-travel related, or out of the blue. RDM and the other writers have never, ever pulled anything on us ever. Ever! Every hairpin turn this saga has made is usually foreshadowed somehow earlier.
Battlestar is a human drama. It shows how normal people may act heroically, cowardly, or any other plethora of reactions when the world collapses around them. The religion of this show is more religion as a function of man than man as a function of religion.
And yes, Mr. Lovejoy. Gaeta is mad. He’s mad though, not because of malice, but because he feels that he was the one who was betrayed. And his bargaining chips (the hybrid, a few of the five,) are quite hefty because the rebel Cylons rebelled precisely because of the Final Five. Not only that, but you cannot forget that for an old gal, Galactica has kicked her fair share of Cylon ass in the face of greater Cylon forces than a damaged basestar.
February 1st, 2009 at 12:59 pm
All the main characters die soon.
And this does not matter to the story… All this comes from thinking about Kara. There is a problem here… for she and Ellen make up the 5th and 6th (???) “final” cylons. Oops. How can this be?
Let’s start over. Here is my speculation:
Earth was the home of humanity. A technology advanced society…
A way to be immortal was developed. This worked by resurrection; a feature of this (to limit population growth?) was that resurrectees would be subtly infertile. These resurrectees were known as, perhaps, “the cyclic population” or cylons. Really, these are just ordinary citizens of an advanced culture who have been resurrected at least once.
But infertility did not go down well with various groups. They wanted to keep having kids – this was all too much meddling with the intentions of the gods. These groups moved out, becoming the colonials. Amongst these were extremists – people who thought the cylons were a perversion against the gods.
Their parting gift was the destruction of Earth. Extremists amongst the colonials nuked the cylons from orbit.
Some cylon population (thanks to at least one remaining & operational resurrection hub on Earth) survived. These were the “final” cylons. Over thousands of years they chased the colonials, fired by a mission – to bring punishment.
Now existing as copies of copies of copies (and perhaps becoming confused over the years) Earth’s survivors built a war-fleet, which fought the war of “50 years ago”. Manned by machines this fleet failed.
Clearly a personal directing hand was needed – so copies of cylon people were sent out to direct a second wave, an improved fleet.
Key to plot development is that ** there is an operational resurrection system at Earth **. This resurrects everyone nearby who dies (hence Kara’s situation); Earth’s system works for all.
Note that the fleet is still by Earth. Everyone can be killed of – only to pop back via resurrection in a few episodes.
Prediction – soon all the main characters die, just for the drama.
Just an idea.
Oh – Gaeta. He’s just bitter and twisted… will he be killed only to find he’s alive in a tank? Now that would be a good scene…
February 1st, 2009 at 3:16 pm
@ Steve
I like the idea of “cylon” as derived from two words. I suggest “Cyclic Longevity” as the root for “cylon”
February 1st, 2009 at 3:52 pm
I completely agree with steve!
I was toying with the idea of there being a resurrection hub on earth, but I couldn’t come up with a good explanation for there being one. If the technology on earth was as advanced as that, then who’s to say there was not a unused viper stored in the hub for kara to hop on? Also the idea that those who resurrected were infertile explains why the colonists could reproduce and the ” cyclic population” as steve put it could not. In my opinion this would definately make killing cylons just as bad as killing humans seeing as how they are basically the same.
If that is true then the earlier suicide of Dee, and the potintial of Tigh and Adamas deaths would be a brilliant way to shock the viewer without completely taking Dee, Tigh, Adama out of the picture.
February 1st, 2009 at 4:55 pm
Cylon-
CYbernetic LifeforOm Node
CYLON http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cylon_(Battlestar_Galactica)
February 1st, 2009 at 4:56 pm
FYI, here is a great site to visit:
http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/battlestar_galactica/
Interviews every week post-episode with writers of the episode or Ron Moore. Sadly, I just stumbled upon it a few episodes back. Thanks, Matt and Nat, for your great site and the thoughtful theories of your fans.
February 1st, 2009 at 5:01 pm
Brian – Sorry I called jaffe a redshirt. I forgot he has been on previous episodes and has had many memorable lines such as “here’s your coffee sir” and many memorable scenes such as randomly walking to a desk in the background of CIC. Though we did not know him well, Mr. Jaffe died a hero and died honoring his uniform. I did not mean any disrespect. RIP my friend. So Say We All.
February 1st, 2009 at 5:13 pm
maybe someone has mentioned this but this episode brought me back to the hybrid’s prophecy where he said that the fifth will arrive searching for redemption thru horrible suffering and howling pain (something to that extent). this is it. it’s gonna get lower and more foul before it gets better. this is some serious stuff going on right now and i think some of the heavy hitters must die in order for this to all play out. i think that Tigh might have to die in order to resurrect in the form of his own child with six. it sounds like a paradox but maybe the five have a form of dna memory and that is how they have been with the colonies for all this time. where as the seven use cloning and their memory is downloaded. the five’s first child will be a carbon copy of themselves and if they are able to have more children they would be autonomous. when they die, their first born’s( male for the men or female for women) programming comes online only if their children(the seven) rebelled against them. as far as helen, unless Tigh burned her body, i don’t think poison would have killed her. as far as i have seen only serious trauma or a certain type of radiation can kill them, a little poison just won’t do it and that is why i don’t think she died. i think that her system detected the poison and she faked her death because she got busted. she didn’t know that she was a cylon until this all went down and she woke up and rebooted. i know what you’re going to say.” but deanna said the the fifth cylon was not in the fleet.” but as far as deanna knew helen died on new caprica. she saw their faces but she can’t detect them. better still, she may be with the cavils. after she got busted, cavil was the only one she could turn to and she may be with them only to show up when they catch up to the fleet, you may also ask : then why didn’t tigh and helen have any kids? that is the million dollar question. maybe they wanted kids but not with each other. they weren’t liking each other very much for a while and to be frank, HELEN WAS A STRAIGHT UP HO. their programming had not forced them to have children yet. i think that tigh’s bioclock started ticking and that he could die at any time and that is why he projected helen onto six to procreate. the cavils may have helen stowed away as a trump card because they knew who the five were. that is why he only tortured tigh and didn’t kill him. think of the power he must have felt by having the life of one of their” special five” in one hand and sleeping with the other and having control over both. i also think that in the up coming series Caprica that we will find out that one of the five are the original creators of the cylons. maybe a version of Dr.Helen. which is creepy and twisted to find out that cavil was sleeping with his mother.( CAN ANYONE SAY SIGMUND FROID?).
just a thought
February 1st, 2009 at 5:22 pm
Methinks we’re going to have this all talked out before the next BSGCast.
How much new material will Matt and Nat give us to chew on?
Hear that Matt? Take this as a challenge! Amaze us with your insight!
February 1st, 2009 at 5:24 pm
i forgot one more thing. cavil was also frakking with tirrol’s mind when he was coming online. the cavils are atheists and it gives them great pleasure to toy with as many of the five as he can. we haven’t seen the last of him or the cylons.
February 1st, 2009 at 6:00 pm
Predictable episode but thrilling until the end. Gaeta does have the look of a villain so that worked out alright. Hopefully next week Tigh doesn’t actually die but I love how BSG has been unsentimental in it’s recent plot twists.
On a side note, I thought Roslin’s encounter with Lee and Starbuck had some weak acting but who really cares at this point – Galactica is tearing itself to pieces, woo!!
February 1st, 2009 at 6:18 pm
steve
i also agree with you on most of your points. i had been think the same thing for a log time except for a couple of things. i think that there are still cylons on earth. remember, when the fleet found the cylon bodies buried on earth, they had skeletons.i think that after the holocaust that the remaining people had to combine toaster and bio in order to survive. i think that there is a resurrection hub on earth and that someone found kara ad resurrected her. as far as the viper, it was reversed engineered. there were no vipers on earth. that radiation was over 2000 years old. that is a colonial fighter. there is still plant life on earth. where there are plants, there are incects. if there are incects, there is a food chain. the cylons built another one for the new kara in order to draw the fleet back to them. whomever is still on earth is looking to restock the gene pool. i think that the fleet is still at earth and that with all this other stuff gong on, the are not paying any attention to it. the people on earth are hiding. possibly underground. humanity has always found a way to survive so why not on earth. that is where helen comes in. when the cavils and their brood pop up again, helen is going to remember everything including the hub on earth. if tigh and adama die, and dee is still in the morgue, this will be a perfect way to unify humans and cylon. resurrection for everybody!! YEAAAA! but only with cylon help and this will be the only way that the fleet and the cylons will be able to live on earth, by becoming their creation and starting this whole thing over again. “ALL THIS HAS HAPPED BEFORE AND WILL HAPPEN AGAIN.” i also think that in order for both cylon a humans to survive, the cavils have to go. not warehoused, not banished, but completely eliminated. even the centurions could get human bodies.
February 1st, 2009 at 6:27 pm
OK all I had a horrid shift yesterday so I cam home and went to bed and just now getting up. I just started watching Oath and something hit me in the beginning when they show what happened previously on Battlestar. It showed the Raptor and vipers going in to get the tilliem ship back to the fleet. Well ALL the ships to include the Vipers jumped in on top of the tilliem ship. Was this a mistake or do we have something new here? I couldn’t get past that and haven’t watched the rest so on to the DVR again. Will post more later on. OH and there was one thing that hit me reminiscent of TOS Battlestar. In the last show of that they went to an old observation dome that nobody knew was still there. Well last Friday they went to a loading dock everyone forgot was there. Just a funny thing I don’t think there is anything to it but there are parts of the ship that the crew doesn’t even know about.
February 1st, 2009 at 8:35 pm
Unless I’m mistaken, or the writers are planning on introducing a different race, Cylon means:
CYbernetic LifefOrm Node
CY-L-O-N
Developed by the Greystones on Caprica.
February 1st, 2009 at 8:46 pm
Shauna- To answer your question, it’s easier to destroy Colonial One, however, there’s less collateral damage by boarding it. Think about it, Zarek’s not the only person on board Colonial One. There’s the pilots of the ship as well as the Quorum of 12.
February 1st, 2009 at 10:10 pm
CB- I agree that storming Colonial One would be best – as long as the Quorum of 12 is alive and well.
As Roslin spoke to the fleet, the faces of the Quorum suggested that they were having second thoughts. They could be ready to revoke Zarek’s authority. Zarek would not allow that to happen. As such, he could conceivably take the Quorum into “protective custody” as he consolidates his power. With Roslin alive and well onboard the basestar, Zarek would order Gaeta to surround the basestar with Vipers & Raptors crewed by mutineers.
Thus Roslin’s statement that she was not going to surrender – not now. Not ever.
Raptors and Vipers crewed by loyalists, for lack of a better word, might surround Colonial One and/or the mutineers surrounding the basestar. If I recall correctly, I believe that this basestar has expended all of its Raiders, so the Cylons have to stand aside, save for arming their nukes.
This would be the perfect time for Cavil’s basestar to appear.
February 1st, 2009 at 10:49 pm
Regarding the origin of the Cylons and what their name means: Well I think that the cylons created by the colonials weren’t really created by them, sure they were built/redesigned by them but, somehow, they got heir hands on a design by the dead cylons we saw on scorched Earth in Revelations.
To be honest its impossible for the humans/cylons on earth to have created centurions 2000 years ago which were so close looking to the ones created by the colonials (or for the colonials to have independently created some robots that looked essentially the same to those other robots back on Earth), so the only explanation is that the colonials somehow got their hands on those old designs. How could this be? Well we have at least 5 people from that Earth living in the colonies as “humans”. So either 1) There was other(s) Cylon(s) from Earth who remembered about their previous life(s) and so built some Cylons or manipulated the colonials to create some Cylons or 2) A colonial found some piece of information/technology brought from Earth (remember at least five people come from Earth) and used that to reverse-engineer or build his colonial Cylons. Hopefully this will be addressed in the upcoming Caprica series! And from what I gather this means these Graystone people could be cylons (point 1) or the ones who rediscover the Cylon (point 2). In scenario 1 the Earth-cylons could have also programmed their new colonial Centurions to eventually try and recreate more humanoid cylons, leading the the 8models we all know and love.
Dunno if what I said makes sense!
February 1st, 2009 at 10:50 pm
Shauna- I don’t recall the spending of their normal Raiders. I know that in “The Hub”, they had to use Heavy Raiders in order to get the Vipers close enough to the Hub without being detected.
To be honest, I think right now would be the best time for the Basestar to attack Galactica. Everyone is so hellbent and concerned about taking over Galactica and cleaning house, the Basestar may be able to disable the Battlestar before Gaeta and the mutineers can be able to get Vipers and Raptors scrambled for defending the ship.
February 1st, 2009 at 10:52 pm
Hi All, amazing epi, it looks like most of us are on the same page regarding the following:
wahoo! Starbuck’s back, Kara and Lee are back! She’s out there saving his you know what, just like past epis: Sacrifice? Home I? The trust–we saw that in RII? yes, yes! I think, like Tigh, Kara’s found her purpose again, saving Lee, Adama, that’s where her loyalty always lay anyway–when you come down to it. It’s like Tigh and Adama–you see who Adama loves the most, Tigh, and vice versa. Their bond is mirrored by Kara and Lee.
As for The whole cylon thing: well here’s how I see some of the tough issues w/the Final 5:
Do you really think that Lee hates Tigh so much because he’s one of the 5? NO. It’s because he feels validated in his dislike, and jealousy of him because of his rship w/his Dad. No one knows Adama better than Tigh, and vice versa. He also hates the sloppiness, of Tigh, the drinking, etc..–much like that part of Kara which he always hated and loved. Same w/Tigh–hitting Tigh, AGAIN–last time being in (was that Kobol’s last Gleaming II? ) I can’t remember right now, actually he pulled a gun on him.
I believe this thinking also applies to Seelix, honestly I don’t really care about her too much, but hey, she likes sending Anders to the dogs, because he rejected her, right? I mean seriously, let’s get real–it has nothing to do w/being a 5. Plus, Anders is totally hot.
I just think that it’s an interesting twist on being human, and how Caprica 6 told Baltar that we are master’s of self-destruction.
Moving on–Baltar’, back!! I missed him; oh and I loved him trying to manipulate Gaeta w/”the secret”; like Gaeta gives a frak anymore, he’s been on the suicide train since seeing earth, and finalized by the last epi of the webisode. I find it interesting however, that Baltar knows Gaeta so well, as to play on the fact that he’s doing the whole revolution to redeem himself; which we already knew. But nothing said Gaeta is so dead, than seeing him drunk w/the power of telling that idiot from the Pegasus, who raped Sharon, to blow up the raptor. Farewell Gaeta–I don’t know what to say on whether his method of suicide is better or worse than putting a bullet in his head; like Dee. I guess it’s his way of going out w/Apollo one last time, and seeing that family she always wanted one last time as Dee did before dying. On another note: I think that Gaeta’s injury, and dependence on morphine, mirrors his insides. I loved how when he starts the revolution, he’s itching the injury, like’s it’s a mosquito bite–you the more you itch it, the worse it gets?
As for Zarek, I still like his character. Richard Hatch deserves great praise for creating a name for himself on this show as an entirely new character, when he was Apollo in the original series. Zarek, is a weasel, but sometimes he’s right; this time, he’s not. If they do not use cylon technology they’ll be sitting there for a long long time. But in his quest for martyrdom, and actually power, he has made a huge mess. Remember he was the one who got Baltar to run for office? so that mess on NC, sadly we could trace it back to Zarek if we wanted. I also think he’s a great foil for Lee, because he helps Lee grow in so many ways, by pointing out, although harshly, his naivete. He’s oh so right when he tells him that he can’t have it both ways, as he was when he put Lee on the quorum “because he will do the right thing even if no one likes it”. It is Zarek, who points out to us, and Lee, the former although his strength, cannot succeed if he doesn’t pick a “side”.
Finally–I’ve said this so many times: the greatest love of all? Sorry Madame President, Adama and Tigh, only to be mirrored by Kara and Lee. I really, really love how the remainder of the old regime go to the cylon baseship. Oh, and Tory needs to chill out; I hope Tyrol finds out she killed Cally. I hope Tyrol is on his way back, he is such a good man, I hope something goes right for him, he has had it really bad. Again–his loyalty remains where it has always been, just like Tigh. Lee has not gotten there yet–I hope he will. Someone somewhere had said that Tyrol was communicating w/Hot Dog on the wireless.
Finally, Caprica 6 needs to get real, all the cylon and cylon giving birth thing, it has to stop. We all know that Tigh is really human in his physicality, not machine, The 2 machines cannot make a baby–that needs to be made clear.
That’s it, can’t wait for the recap Matt & Nat!
A
February 1st, 2009 at 11:49 pm
Oh My God! I have it figured out! The painting of the Last Supper! Think about it! Twelve people in the painting….12 Cylon models…what if humanity is dwindled down to the last 12 people and its the ones in the painting! I think that’s it! The ones in the painting will survive and continue what happened before and will happen again!
Well having suggested that theory, now let me tell you what I thought of this episode….One Big ClusterFrak!
An airlock would be too quick for those traitors! Especially Gaeta! I lost all respect for him when he lied on the stand about Baltar signing the order. Hell I even thought it was justice when he lost his leg after that. Now this betrayal of Adama to Tom Fraking Zarek of all people! At least Baltar didn’t know he was betraying humanity when he did what he did, from the web episodes neither did Gaeta when he helped that 8 make the list…but to willingly start a mutiny, joining in the killing of more humans in a time of a war for humanity’s very survival is unforgivable! Its willing betrayal of people who put their trust into him.
I loved when Baltar called to try and plead with Gaeta. He knew all too well the anguish that was eating away at his soul, how he was used by a Cylon and betrayed his fellow humans unwillingly. Gaeta’s rejection may very well have been his last chance to save himself from the punishment he deserves.
Zarek won’t just end up in a cell this time around either! He committed a coup-de-tat and started a civil war that could very well tear the rest of the fleet apart just like it did Galactica. He’s gambling it all on everyone’s hatred and bigotry and their fear. Are those aspects more powerful that the good in human nature? We’ll soon see.
It also looks as if, in addition to the hatred for the Cylons, that lots of old debts and scores are being settled. Stuff that was held down in check is now bubbling to the surface with a vengeance…the rapist frakker from Pegasus who wants to harm Athena, the mother of a young child being the best example, as was the guy who lost his son on New Caprica and who tried to kill Baltar at the beginning of the season (That girl from Baltar’s flock should have “smited” him to death back in that bathroom).
Many of the characters we loved to watch are now on the opposite side, although Racetrack and Seelix aren’t much of a shock given their hatred of “The Toasters” but to willingly betray their fellow humans and help to kill them is unforgivable also.
My favorite two scenes (other than Baltar trying to tell Gaeta to end this madness) was when Starbuck saves Lee and then begs them to follow her (nothing like fighting against a mutiny and blowing away traitors to the uniform to bring you out of self-pity huh?) And the scene at the end with Adama and Tigh holding off as if in a last stand! Totally amazing to see Husker back in the saddle, so to speak! LOL!
As for the preview for next week, don’t worry people, we all know that the previews are very misleading. We know this much, at least Adama is going to get captured and “tried for treason”…that Laura and Baltar get to the Rebel ship…that Apollo, Starbuck and Tyrol are still free and will probably be doing their own little John McClaine stuff throughout the ship (LOL I could see Starbuck calling Gaeta in CIC and saying “Yippie Kai Yay, Mother Fraker!”).
Now comes the good stuff, can’t wait to see what happens next! So say we all!
February 1st, 2009 at 11:53 pm
If I understand what we’ve seen in the Galactiverse, then what’s going on is this:
Cylons initially were created on Kobol, and evolved humanoid cylons there. For whatever reason, the humanoid versions of those cylons became considered the 13th Tribe, left and settled on Earth. Humanity subsequently left Kobol and went to the Colonies, forgetting that they had created Cylons, almost forgetting the 13th Tribe altogether. Somehow, there was a nuclear holocaust on Earth. Meanwhile, life went on in the Colonies. 1900+ years later, humanity rediscovered how to create artificial life – Cylons. There’s plenty of precedent for this: there’s archeological evidence for several technologies, starting with the bow and arrow, being discovered, lost, and rediscovered before they stuck. The Colonial Cylons are so similar to the original, Kobol-derived Cylons that both recognize each other are being essentially the same. Colonial-derived Cylons are the significant 7; Kobol-derived are the Final Five. At some point, early in the evolution of the Significant 7, there was some contact, and they learned that the 5 were out there. They may have even borrowed technological/biological information from them, including DNA sequences which were unique to Cylons (which would make it very easy for the Cylons to identify other cylons, even when humans can’t: without knowing that those particular genes are in fact unique to Cylons, DNA testing would be useless because they wouldn’t know what they were seeing. The only way they would know would be to test the DNA of all the Cylons they could get and then look for what all of them have that NO ONE in the fleet has… a difficult proposition at best). At some point, the Significant 7 make a collective decision that forces the 5 to cut all ties. The 7 block all memory of the 5, except the memory that they do in fact exist. Fast forward, oh, probably 30+ years, and the 7 attack and destroy the Colonies. The 5, having blocked out ALL their memories of Cylons and their own existence, scatted into the human population, manage to survive and escape with the RTF. We all know the story from there.
Now, all of that is what I THINK happened. The implications are simple; holding the 5 accountable for the Fall of the Colonies, or anything that happened up until they remembered who they were, is equivalent to holding 2nd and 3rd generation Japanese living in America at the time of Pearl Harbor responsible for WWII. They may well be related to those who are responsible, but not only did they not participate, they had NO INFLUENCE in the decision making. Tigh in particular has made it PAINFULLY clear which side he stands on, and was quite willing to be tossed out an airlock if it was what Adama believed was in the best interests of the Fleet. To hold any of the 5 responsible for the Fall of the Colonies is bigoted at best.
As for the 7 – whatever factions they have broken into, they ARE responsible, both for the Fall of the Colonies and the Occupation on New Caprica, and to expect people to just accept them without a fuss is unreasonable. Before there can be any reasonable expectation that the Fleet should act much differently than they are, there really needs to be an apology from the 7 (or at least the 2, 6, and 8s), with a gesture of good will/penance on their part. “We were wrong. We realize this now. We were misguided, and we have done a huge evil that we cannot repair, and we apologize.” Offer the technology, no strings attached, as a sign of their repentance. Personnel to install it? “Geeze, we’re sorry, but we like living as much as you do. We’re not going to go on your ships and help you with the equipment without some good guarantees of our safety. You know, the Cylons on Earth were known as the 13th Tribe. We want to reclaim that status. Of course, to be a tribe, we have to be citizens… and all the tribes have a member on the Quorum, don’t they?”
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:29 am
Wow factor !!!!
February 2nd, 2009 at 9:53 am
kittklaiss
good theory but there are a couple we have to take into account. remember in razor, young adama found the lab that the cylons were using to experiment on humans to develop the 6. before then they were all metal robots. even the basestars were not organic yet. all of their tech advances were developed in that 50 or so years before the last attack. again we don’t know how advanced scorched earth was. we do know they were advanced enough to travel deep space and that they could adapt human tissue to metal as seen on earth with the centurions. the cavils(the1’s) seem to be the only one of the 7 to know the whole story. he knows what really went down in their creation. as we have seen, he is a bitter sadistic s.o.b. that hate comes from something that happened that he deemed pretty foul. the new centurions and the 6 were created by the cavils of this time. as i said in my earlier post the cylons on scorched earth had skeletons. they were organic at their core. centurions today are not. only heavy raiders, the baseships, hybrids, and 12 are organics. i think that helen was the one that created the cylon robots on caprica. the greystones were probably the money behind the tech. i don’t think that cylons were created on kobol. they were created after the exodus. there has never been any mention of centurions on kobol. as advanced as the colonials were when they left kobol, for them to come so far as they have would take at least 1000 years to build their civilization. in the original series, adama said that after the colonies found the binary solar system, they settled on the 12 planets and used their ships as their homes and destroyed most of their technology to prevent them from destroying their new home like they did kobol. even today the 12 colonies are unequal tech wise. some planets were more advanced than others. they had their own civil war and all of these advancements take time. just imagine where we could be if it wasn’t for the 500 years of the dark ages we had. the centurions were most likely created in the past 100-200 years or so as foot soldiers for humans during their civil war and were used as the work force in the rebuilding afterward. i think that cavil was created by helen on caprica and that he saw how he was going to be used (a.k.a. ceasar planet of the apes) so he and the cylons rebelled. the 5 were the first of the truly organics and left with their human creators on earth just after the holocaust and were part of the original settlers of cobol. they “passed” as humans and their base programming was buried under so much code that over time they forgot what they were. i only say this because i am black and my grandmother on my dad’s side told me of how some of her uncles and aunts decided to pass for white just after the jim crowe laws were passed in the 1890’s. both of my grandmothers could have passed for white but chose not to. they married the darkest men they could find so that their their children wouldn’t have to go through the stuff they went through. it was literally unsafe for her and her sisters to travel alone because a lot of the white men in their county were constantly after them and all of her brothers left the state and moved up north because being a black man in the south who looked white was a death sentence. i have 2nd and 3rd cousins who are black and they don’t even know it because they were never told. even today if you have one drop of black blood in you, you are considered black. (sorry for the biography and history lesson but this is how i came to some my conclusions). the five only came online when their lives were threatened by their own kind. their base programming switched on and they realized what they were. i think that helen created the1st cavil. the cavils developed the other 6, centurions and all of their other stuff in the years between the first cylon- human war and they modeled their society after who they thought were their human creators. that is why he is the leader as it were and has this anti-god complex. the cavils knew of the five because helen used some of her base programming to create him and the greystones pushed the envelope too far and it came back and bit them in the ass. that is why the hybrid in razor said that “the 5th, struggling to the light, searching for redemption”. she created the cavil that started this whole mess. this reckoning is bigger than just the fleet. it also involves the Whole cylon race, not just the organics and the humans. “IF” this is earth (the jury is still out no that) they will need each other in order to survive. one thing is certain, both tom zerek and all of the cavils must go. no boxed but destroyed. they are the human/cylon yoko ono of the band- i mean fleet.
February 2nd, 2009 at 10:55 am
I generally agree with the epi reviews here in the comments. What a great running wave of emotional moments. I only had one side question. What is it that happened to make Tyrol feel non-human- or at least not the man he always was, the way Tigh does? Was it Cally’s loss or is it something else? I mean, Tory had some (unknown?) internal reasons for breaking off first. Anders probably feels utterly adrift (ie, Kara, being a Cylon, etc), though he seems to still want to be part of the “crew” I think. And Tigh, again, is exactly who he was before – just because he found the cell structure of his body might be somewhat different than he first thought, he knows he’s still Tigh with all the faults and strengths therein.
So what about Tyrol. What’s drifting him away into this limbo-world where he doesn’t feel like the old Tyrol, but he’s also hangin with the Baltar groupies?
Just curious, because I might have missed an important moment to explain it.
February 2nd, 2009 at 11:39 am
Guys, Gaeta is the fifth, (I know I cant explain Ellen away easily but hear me out) listen carefully to his and baltars conversation over the phone, “If you are hungry for redemption this is not the way” Sound familiar? How about the hybrids prophecy: “And the fifth still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering” I don’t know how, or why, but Gaeta, now, more then ever would make the perfect fifth.
February 2nd, 2009 at 11:49 am
Sam-Vagner – This stuff has been mulled over a billion times in the endless “Who is the 5th” conversations. With the hybrid profecies anyone could be the 5th even Baltar, if you referr back to episode 3.13 where he’s floating in water and adama is holding a flashlight above him telling him to reach for the light. So if we were to look at Ellen in these prophecies she could be clawing towards the light as she is being reborn, she could also be seeking redemption for betraying the resistance on New Caprica. I don’t think there is much point in any more 5th theorizing. We’re just not happy with who the 5th actually is. LOL
February 2nd, 2009 at 12:52 pm
Hi again,
..some loose ends re the earlier post:
a) any religious extremists who did nuke Earth would tend to slant the histories their way (we know that the written prophesies are coming out not-quite-right) and
b) if all humans and “skin-jobs” are basically the same, then all humans can project / see themselves in other environments. This supports the idea that they all come from 1 advanced human gene-stock – for example, who had the ability gene-therapied in to experience a virtual environment (a “holodeck” in your head). One difference – the colonials, coming from religious refuse-niks – have *given up the conscious use* of this. Not so the cylons.
The more I think about it the more I see humans and skin-jobs to be more or less identical, except the colonial humans have lost (=forgotten) some old “secrets” – which remain latent but unused.
SO when humans “project” – it’s just that their latent abilities have been… turned on, at last…
(this is getting rather “Quatermass and the Pit” http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/news/cult/2005/03/31/18177.shtml)
February 2nd, 2009 at 1:03 pm
Repost (are there 2?) as can’t see my comment…
Hi again,
..some loose ends re the earlier post:
a) any religious extremists who did nuke Earth would tend to slant the histories their way (we know that the written prophesies are coming out not-quite-right) and
b) if all humans and “skin-jobs” are basically the same, then all humans can project / see themselves in other environments. This supports the idea that they all come from 1 advanced human gene-stock – for example, who had the ability gene-therapied in to experience a virtual environment (a “holodeck” in your head). One difference – the colonials, coming from religious refuse-niks – have *given up the conscious use* of this. Not so the cylons.
The more I think about it the more I see humans and skin-jobs to be more or less identical, except the colonial humans have lost (=forgotten) some old “secrets” – which remain latent but unused.
SO when humans “project” – it’s just that their latent abilities have been… turned on, at last…
(this is getting rather “Quatermass and the Pit” – see website link)
February 2nd, 2009 at 1:31 pm
Bill Says: “I say have the rest of the fleet rally around Roslyn and jump away from Galactica. Of course get Adama, Baltar, the Cylons and company off first—not to mention putting Zarek on Galactica. Then…the non-renegade Cylons find them, launch nukes.”
Yes, yes, yes, lovely….poetic justice, beautiful, except I don’t want Galactica destroyed!!!
Adam Says: “Gaeta…He’s air lock bait!”
hahaha
Kirsty Says: “Gaeta was taking over the CIC he ordered all senior staff to be taken to the brig. Including Hoshi, his boyfriend. WTF?”
He sent him there to keep him safe, I thought that right away, makes sense.
HLB Says: “Laura Roslin is going to be kicking some ass with the Cylons on her side. Can’t wait to see Centurians taking down the traitors in the halls of Galactica because that will make a great visual storytelling.”
HELL YA!!!!!!!!! That would be SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET.
Nate Says “Don’t be surprised…that the white blindfold over Adama’s eyes during the execution are actually bandages.”
I agree, except the scene where Adama is examining his cracked Galactica is still to come, so his blinding is just temporary!!
Steve says “Key to plot development is that ** there is an operational resurrection system at Earth **. This resurrects everyone nearby who dies (hence Kara’s situation); Earth’s system works for all.”
Potentially…brilliant! I like the idea of Saul dying and coming back….I think there will be more than Ellen getting off that raptor onto Galactica when Roslin will say ‘Oh my Gods.’ It will be her and Tighe, at least.
Great to see Roslin, Adama, Starbuck and Apollo back in historic action – truly lovely. Except Starbuck should have killed Racetrack and the other guy right away, because she’s later ragging on Adama to kill his marine that he let go, and takes a shot at the guy.
Never felt such loathing for a character as I have for Gaeta and for the Pegasus guy…what a show this is.
THE BIG QUESTION I have:
I am rewatching the series, and on Kobol etc. there is so much about Baltar being the guardian and the father of the new baby: ’shape of things’ to come….he refered to it as ‘our baby’ to Head Six etc. (and had that dream about Adama drowning it)… so I ask you, for I am at a loss, how this is going to fit in to the last episodes? Was that just BS on the writer’s part, a bit that is going to go nowhere? Caprica and Baltar have parted ways. Head 6 seems gone for good…so is Baltar going to save ‘their baby’ (Hera? Caprica’s baby? both?) somehow? Dunno. Would be a shame if that stuff turns out to be useless.
HELP!
February 2nd, 2009 at 1:51 pm
New interview with Jambie Bamber Feb. 2nd – http://www.cbc.ca/q/
February 2nd, 2009 at 2:22 pm
I think it’s interesting that Sharon murdered a random Six for just running into Hera in the hallway, but then had no problem letting the actual Six from the dreams cozy up with and comfort Hera in this last episode. Sure, the situation was chaotic. But still, odd.
February 2nd, 2009 at 3:07 pm
Gaeta is should be seen as a hero and not a villain. He has done his role to the best of his abilities.
Just a list of things off the top of my head :
1) He got the computers going after the initial attack by the Cylons.
2) He believe in the will of the people by backing the Baltar administration. (I think exposed the ballot stuffing by Roselin)
3) He feed information to the Rebels on New Caprica.
4) He volunteered to go on Star Buck’s quest for the way to earth.
4) He is trying to save his people from an alliance with the devil.
On the last point the Cylons, prior to their quest for Earth, decided it was okay to eliminate the human race. There could easily be Cylons on the Rebel basestar that think dead humans are a good thing (as seen in episode where they first encounters the Rebel Basestar). Is the leadership on the Rebel basestar stable? (The Rebel Cylons have thrown away their lives in Cylon society and come up with a dead planet.). Seeing how life ended on Earth where Cylons and humans lived together does it make any sense to repeat history?
I would say that Gaeta is thinking clearly when it come to his opposition to the alliance with the Cylons.
Great espisode by the way.
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:43 pm
I agree completely with the above post. Adama is blinded because he has personal relationships with cylons and trusts these ones because he sees them as different and worthy of aligning and cooperating with – but the rest of the fleet only has their hatred and fear. He didn’t communicate the sense of the alliance to his crew and Roslin didn’t do it for the fleet’s people…and failure to communicate ALWAYS leads to major problems.
And Gaeta did try to tell him, in the meeting with Tyrel and in the CIC, that it was no good, that unacceptable risks were being crammed down their throats. Yes, it’s the military and you must do what your CO says…but in this case, with the perceived devil in bed with them, the rationale is needed along with the orders.
Gaeta deserves his due for sure. He’s been as dedicated as anyone to his uniform and to humanity’s survival. He’s doing what Adama would be doing, if Adama hadn’t formed personal relationships with these ‘good’ cylons.
Tootie
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:06 pm
‘The Oath’ as a title for this episode reminds me of ‘The First Duty’ , a TNG episode where Crusher and his flight team at StarFleet Academy hide the death of a team member that happened during the practice of an extremely dangerous flight stunt. It’s some of the best of Star Trek. Patrick Stewart delivers a brilliant Picard moment, where he stabs Wesley through the heart with venomous lecturing about the first duty of a StarFleet officer…being a commitment to the truth, scientific truth, historical truth, personal truth. And then he says that if W doesn’t tell the truth to the investigative tribunal, he will.
The truth here in ‘The Oath’ is also the central issue. Gaeta is seeing the truth as the vast majority of humanity perceives it. The truth is that the cylons committed GENOCIDE and almost wiped out humanity, that there is NO guarantee these renegades are trustworthy, that this course of action (putting cylon technology on fleet ships) is MADNESS, to have a cylon first officer is MADNESS, and so on. It rightly seems to someone with no connection to these cylons (especially someone who almost got airlocked by a few of them, got his leg shot off by one, etc.) that the CO of the fleet has gone INSANE, and therefore cannot be allowed to continue to command.
And it’s the objective truth.
Much as I hate Gaeta’s actions, I must agree with them. Marxist1844 is right, even though I didn’t want to admit it: by planning to use “force against the people of the fleet against their will to accept technology from a genocidal enemy who has spent the last 4 years hunting and killing them,” Adama is acting CRAZY and Gaeta is rightly taking action that will not allow it to happen.
What a frakkin piece of artwork is this amazing gift of a show. I am now half cheering for Gaeta, half for our bad-ass gang, exactly 50-50. Wow.
The previews show that Gaeta stands up to Zarek over a ‘murder’ of some kind, but methinks it’s not that of Adama as Gaeta already ordered him shot and killed in the CIC…
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:35 pm
Does anyone else get the feeling that Tyrol knows a little more than he is letting on. His whole remembering everything line that they play over and over in the previews, has never really been talked about. And since he was sort of this guiding force that helped put everyone into their places at the end of the episode. Could his memories of all that has happened before be driving his actions in the now?
February 2nd, 2009 at 7:25 pm
Hey All,
So many great ideas, and I can’t remember who said everything but I’ll just make comments en masse:
Whomever suggested that Ellen created the resurrection technology on Earth, is a very interesting idea as I felt like they were in some kind of lab or office near or underwater; ie. like they were scientists. Which, wow, Ellen was always such a character, as we all know, she gave the appearance w/her drinking and sleeping around (or so we thought she was, but she always insisted she was loyal to Tigh; unflinchingly); that she was not too high in intelligence. However, she was always scheming ways for Tigh to succeed and move ahead, and her little game w/Cavil was brave and stupid (and a little Balteresque), but she was very sharp. But, I felt like in that seen when she spoke to Tigh, when she said they would be together, together again, that they would not be coming back for a very long time, and it would be far away. I don’t know, but I like the choice of her as the Final 5, I was a big fan of Ellen, and missed her when she died. She also does match the prophesy she definitely was clawing towards the light to save Tigh, but not seeing the big picture, or the importance of personal sacrifice, betrayed her own (at the time anyway). But as Anders said, it had to be done.She was always shortsighted in the big picture, as she and Saul were her focus. She was a survivor, again, a lot like Baltar.
I disagree with Gaeta’s actions because the old rules no longer apply. Sadly, as distasteful as an alliance would be, they were stuck there for the time being. But, his actions and that of many others, were to be expected and I’m glad they didn’t gloss over it. It would have been better if Roslin had sucked it up, and been a leader, like Adama has been, remember Home I when he admitted he was wrong and put the fleet back together? It was at that moment, I truly thought he was a great leader. Admitting fault & taking responsibility for it is hard enough, but in this case dealing w/those who destroyed your civilization, is a bit heavier.
I think Roslin let the people down. But, in her defense, I think if she had used the prophecy more as a tool w/a means to the end, rather than placing herself so square in the middle of it, would have been wiser. But she was dying, and I think becoming the dying leader (which was never official), kept her alive. We all know having something to live for was pretty rough at this point, right? She should have turned power over to Lee, who, although they didn’t show it, showed true leadership to the Quorum by telling them they were now free to find a home w/out the shackles of prophecy hanging over their heads. I wish they had showed that speech, it seemed pretty important, to put it lightly.
As for Gaeta and Zarek: Well he understands revolution a lot better than Gaeta does, and he makes it clear there will be bloodshed in that cell. But again, Gaeta is on the suicide train, and yes saying okay to revolution and seeing it in action are 2 different things. I just keep seeing him in those final moments seeming almost giddy w/insanity and power giving the kill order to that creep who raped Sharon-I hope Helo gives it to him good. Maybe throw Tyrol in for good measure–they were a good team. Yes, my friends I give Gaeta 2 more epis, 3, if he’s lucky. But, I want to feel sorry for Gaeta again, as he was never a combat guy,right? He was the computer guy, coordinator of whatever in the CIC, and I think that he would have been a great Politician if the world had been different. I just remember how giddy he was about meeting and being part of a new gov’t on NC. Still so innocent–NC killed so many people physically and in spirt.
Yes, putting the cylon FTL’s were a hard pill to swallow, but hey if the choice was really death, or a lesser possibility of it by taking their technology at this point, what would you do? Am I understanding this correctly? They could not leave w/out the technology correct? I was disappointed in Roslin, she really failed as a great leader, and Adama stood fast and strong.
Finally, having the FF, ie. Tigh back in position, could be seen as wrong and a hard pill to swallow. But as many, myself included have said, the blame for the death of the 12 colonies is on models 1-8, correct? Tigh, Anders and Tyrol have fought harder than most for humanity w/great personal sacrifice, that should not be forgotten. None of the models were that “great”, and they have never altered, unlike Boomer.
But, just to go back to LDBY 1, remember when Tyrol was afraid he was a cylon as a result of those dreams that he was having of falling off the deck? How Cavil made the connection, I still don’t see it–but it seems Cavil seems to always part of the 5 in some way. Ellen, Tyrol, breaking the cylons up over the 5, and boxing D’Anna because of it? I would LOVE to hear some answers to that; I just could never see how those dreams and Tyrol’s fears connected him to being a cylon. I thought it was because he was so afraid of trusting himself and his feelings because of Boomer, that the only explanation for him loving a machine was that he was a cylon.
Oh, and one more point, we know the FF can’t stick wires in their arms and hook up to the other computers? Another important fact that should have been pointed out to the fleet. Ignorance, and fear has brought about some of the most dangerous rulers in human history. It was how Hitler came to power? It was why there was so much blame on the European leaders to not have caught it it the beginning, because they and us obliterated Germany’s economy and country, and their financial system was in ruin, only to be increased by the Great Depression. I think it bears mentioning–
Then in reference to Starbuck–we all remember Gladiator: “What we do in life echoes in eternity” I think this quote from that movie (which I have seen in other places too) is so applicable to this series. Especially in reference to the FF, Kara and Baltar.
Whew!
A
February 2nd, 2009 at 10:29 pm
Of the final five you seem to forget Tori who flushed a human out of an airlock to protect the Cylons. The balance of power with the Cylon (if it were a vote) seem to with what the 6’s, 8’s, 2’s. At this point the 2’s and 6’s must be pretty disillusioned and the 8’s seem to fence sitters. The remaining D’Anna said she was going to stay on Earth. (There was no confirmation if she did.)
Tyrol seems to slipping between us/them and could easily change his allegiances. Tigh seems to be loyal to command structure but that doesn’t mean the 6’s,8’s ,2’s or the other final four/five would follow his lead.
There could be a basis for a temporary alliance help to find food and fuel. There isn’t a good case for the Cylons to be part of the fleet. There isn’t a case of humans and Cylons to live together in peace. (Earth, New Caprica, 12 colonies were all failures.)
February 2nd, 2009 at 11:26 pm
In fairness to Tory, Calli was already IN an airlock planning to push the button. All Tori really did was keep her from launching the baby, too.
February 3rd, 2009 at 12:21 am
I don’t if someone asked this before or if somebody already touched on the subject, but here it goes: the numbers of the significant seven run fom 1 to 6, then skip 7, and end with 8. Let’s assume that the Cavils were created first and the Sharons last, did something go horribly wrong with the 7th model and they had to scrap it, or does the number 7 hold a special significance to the Cylons and they would not assign it to any model?
February 3rd, 2009 at 1:28 am
Well, it’s a little off topic but since some have mentioned it here I will add my two cents worth about the correlation of the Cylons of Earth and the Colonies…
I do believe that Daniel Graystone is another undiscovered (as of yet) Hybrid Cylon of Earth in the same manner as the final five. Residing in his psyche however, were not memories of Earth and how to find it, rather the technology of building Centurions, Raiders and the like. It wouldn’t be obvious to him as in “hey I remember that I lived on this planet far away and built toasters.” It would just be a natural scientific invention to him as a scientific genius, etc.
At it’s face value it may sound weak, but it would feasibly explain and bridge the gap between how Centurions were created in the colonies yet found to exist on Earth 2000 years ago.
February 3rd, 2009 at 2:54 am
Oh please, I cannot believe some of the comments on this board damning Gaeta.
Do you care at all that the Roslin government is totally unelected, that Adama rules by a virtual military dictatorship, that power in the fleet is contained to two people in a romantic relationship, as well as Adama’s son Lee and quasi-daughter Starbuck? Or is it just because the show is centered on the point of view of these primary characters that you choose to blindly support them?
The revolution is entirely justified as there is no representative government in the fleet, no dissent allowed and no consultation permitted beyond Roslin, Adama and their dynasty. The concerns of the only democratically elected body in the fleet, the quorum, are summarily dismissed by the military ruler.
No one can justify the acts of certain individual mutineers who have taken advantage of the situation to threaten, rape and kill. However did it escape your notice what a sadistic, willful killer Starbuck has shown herself to be? Can any of you seriously say that she is a better person than Felix, who is trying to restore democracy?
I’m with Gaeta but Zareck can suck it.
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:12 am
Matt- The reason why Gaeta is being damned by all of us is because he’s getting people killed in his coup. And the people involved are doing it for the wrong reasons as well (one clear example is the guy from the Pegasus, who apparently still harbored his hatred for what happened to Thorne). No one else is performing the mutiny for the same reason as Gaeta. Gaeta restoring democracy? What’s democratic about holding a bloody mutiny that is based on hatred AND have gotten innocent bystanders killed? (If you remember there were three people in Gaeta’s group that talked about civilians trying to secure an entryway to keep them out and one of them ordered to have a group of Marines sent down, which indicates that they don’t really care who is and isn’t innocent, they just care about killing people).
And, just so you know, Adama’s so called “military dictatorship” and Roslin’s “unelected government” have kept humanity alive for four years after the destruction of the Colonies. They must have been doing something right if it meant keeping people alive. You can’t say the same about Gaeta’s actions.
February 3rd, 2009 at 5:13 am
Sooooo 122 posts and no clip from Natt and Matt ??? Hmmm Where are you guys?
February 3rd, 2009 at 9:10 am
To Matt-
No, I don’t care at all that Adama rules like a dictator. Why? Because someone has to. Right now he is the most competent and experienced officer/leader in the fleet. It seems that it escaped your notion that they are still at war (well, running for they lives). And in war, specially if the very survival of the human race is at stake, military needs HAVE to come first whether you like it or not. That’s the very reason they’re still alive. And for the military to function properly it needs a chain of command, which includes one man on the top.
And secondly, were Gaeta’s actions justified? I’d say,considering the timing, absolutely not! I doubt he really thought things through before acting. What if he succeeds? They would have a Lieutentant commanding military, a power-seeking terrorist for president and a big part of Galactica’s crew either in the brick or dead. Yeah, that’s an improvement. Should Cavil’s Cylon fleet found them now during the mutiny, they’d be frakked. Not that I’d think they would have any chance afterwards either…
It seems some of you think that democracy is somekind of a miracle cure for every possible situation, ” If only they had free elected government to rule, then…”. I think that the concerns about the democracy and other issues are valid ONCE they’ve found a somewhat safe planet to settle down.
P.S I’m with number six and the rest can suck it
February 3rd, 2009 at 9:39 am
Amada/Roselyn have keep the fleet together but they haven’t really accomplished much. There is a dead planet, little fuel and little food.
In revolution there is a loss of life and people with alternative motives. When your in a coup situation you don’t get to pick and chose who follows and you don’t have time to discuss with each person what their motives are. While there are people with multiple agendas the one thing they seems to be united on is that they do not want the Cylons.
Yes some of the mutineers aren’t good people but there crime aren’t any worse then the Cylons (genocide, breeding farms, executions, …)
February 3rd, 2009 at 9:52 am
To FF it was establish by Roslyn during Season 1 that the Cylon had won the war. If Cylon fleet find the human fleet one extra basestar isn’t go to make that much difference. The rebel basestar has been beaten before and BSG was almost destroyed if not for the sacrifice of Pegasus.
February 3rd, 2009 at 10:06 am
I would switch for Adama’s dictatorship in a heartbeat. Let’s face it, democracy is nothing more than the tyranny of the majority, and it costs a whole lot more in taxes than a one-man dictatorship. The only difference in a democracy is that you get to choose who’s going to screw you over for the next 4 years. At least, Adama is FAIR, and that’s one thing you don’t get to enjoy in a democracy.
February 3rd, 2009 at 11:16 am
Ok… i just did a search on all of the postings to this point… No one has mentioned Starbuck’s KISS. Or should that be considered Apollo’s kiss? Not sure really. Anyway… call me an old romantic… but just seeing Apollo’s face afterwards was enough to make me smile – not to mention Starbuck’s comment about how great it is to be alive. Despite all of the chaos on Galactica, how could you not have a little “Love…. Love will keep us togethahhh” – Carpenters.
February 3rd, 2009 at 11:47 am
I know this isn’t related to the episode, but a 411 to those who don’t know of it. I recently went to Barnes and Nobles and picked up a copy of “Battlestar Galactica: Trilogy”. Basically, what it is is the three original “Battlestar Galactica” novels that were written (”The Cylons’ Secret” by Craig Shaw Gardner, “Sagittarius Is Bleeding” by Peter David and “Unity” by Steven Harper) together in one book. I don’t know how long its been out (the copyright on it lists the printing of the collection as January 2009), but for those that are wanting to get all three stories, getting them all together in one book would definitely be the way to go.
February 3rd, 2009 at 12:44 pm
alright, i’m gonna put this out there…pls forgive me if someone has already done so…it’s regarding starbuck being the harbinger of doom/death. it’s possible that she was directly responsible for the destruction of this earth, and possibly an infinite number of them if the whole “this has happened before…..” prophesy is true.
clearly she does not remember what happened on earth this time around; maybe the effects of traveling through a wormhole or dying and being born again, if you will…i hope this makes sense to some of you. other than that, the oath was wicked…moore can really sustain a tale.. great job…pps great site guys!
February 3rd, 2009 at 12:47 pm
Matt, I’m not angry with Gaeta… but I am very sad about what he and others are doing. They’ve been thru so much, and now they are letting despair lead them into darkness. It’s very understandable, and as far as the civillians go, they have a right to do what they are doing. But Gaeta, Selix, Racetrack, Skulls, and the other members of the Military? They volentarily put on the uniform, they swore an oath to follow orders and defend the ship. The Military isn’t a democracy, and never has been. Mutiny was wrong when Apollo did it, it was wrong when Helo did it, and it’s wrong now. The difference? Neither Apollo nor Helo planned theirs, they were spur of the moment, and nobody died… which was lucky on their part. Gaeta has organized and planned a major mutiny where he knew there would be numerous deaths, and went ahead and did it anyway. He chose to act against his oath – a choice he knew came with a price. I just hope he’s prepared to pay it. It’s sad to see him go this way.
February 3rd, 2009 at 1:34 pm
Political theory aside, I wouldn’t choose to be a part of Gaeta’s rebellion simply due to the personalities involved. As it now stands, Tom Zarek, an opportunistic demagogue – is their patron saint and Felix Gaeta, a man clearly motivated by resentment and rage, is his right-hand man. Beneath them, we have a myriad of even more unpleasant personalities. Charlie Connor, who relished in the airlocking of collaborators and blames anyone and everyone for the death of his son. Then we have Seelix, who appears to simply be embarrassed and humiliated at having not won over the affections of Anders. Add in the Cylon rape-gang from Pegasus and the exasperating figure of Racetrack and it does not mix well for a band of moral exemplars for the Fleet.
I always view the show from the perspective of my being an average citizen in the Fleet, say on one of the passenger liners. I grew up in a town of 40,000 people and believe me – you know the personalities of those who are in power or in the circle of influence in a place like that. Hell, we didn’t even have internet growing up, let alone cell phones. The people of the Fleet have wireless and other capabilities that probably make their community feel even more interconnected than mine. You can be assured that the average citizen knows of the silly love trios, the personality conflicts and the shifts in loyalty in the various echelons of the Galactica community. Looking at the show that way, I cannot imagine making the conscious choice to rally behind a crew of the most acrimonious individuals in the Fleet. Whether some of them have suffered justifiable loss is subjective – if I were in that Fleet it meant I lost something once too, even if only my terrestrial freedom. Choosing to follow a band of rebels who engage in rancorous violence – while serving the interests of a vainglorious man – would be the stupidest decision anyone in the Galactica Fleet could possibly make. Given all the evidence of how much success Adama has had in protecting them, he deserves the respect and support of his people, even in this most trying hour.
February 3rd, 2009 at 1:48 pm
When looking into the hybrid prophecy I was thinking that “it has all happened before and has happened again” theme is simply the hybrid stating fact as he knows it. Anthing he says could be simply stating how history seems to repeat itself in a loop …but it may not play out that way as we see the series end – like the whole Kara thing and bringinghumanity to its end. She obviously did that in previous cycles but that does not mean it will happen this cycle. A neat way for RDM to cover his tracks or possible plot holes or errors.(I hope not as we all deserve some good answers). Maybe each cycle there are different cyclons – maybe Tigh is recalling when Ellen was the 5th (2000 years ago) – maybe Kara was a cylon in a differnt cycle and they seem (as humans in future cycles) to keep some cylon traits – one could go mad trying to figure this all out.
February 3rd, 2009 at 2:54 pm
I just want to say what a great BSG forum this is – such intelligent detailed analysis…to be found nowhere else on the web.
I’m with BSGCast – and the rest can suck it!
Tootie
February 3rd, 2009 at 2:55 pm
Was that episode ever a mind frak, or what? I have some things I’m thinking about right now. I’d welcome all of your thoughts and such.
Here’s what we know: there’s a mutiny, Roslin was spirited away to the baseship, Adama and Tigh fight side-by-side. As the preview suggests, Colonel Tigh is killed. Admiral Adama is in an airlock, presumably awaiting execution. So here’s where it starts.
We know one of the Five is already dead (Ellen). But she mentions in Sometimes a Great Notion that they can be reborn. We don’t know how that happens yet, but we know that it did occur for the Five. Now, it looks like another of the Five is dead, and that person just happens to be Ellen’s husband.
So here’s the thing. Almost assuredly we’ll see Ellen and Saul again. Do you reckon they will return fully grown, or will they have to grow up from babies again?
Or is Saul even dead? Could it be that he pretends to be dead, maybe as a Cylon he can stop his vital functions so that they look at him and pronounce him dead, but he comes to after they leave?
There’s a lot of speculation about Caprica’s baby, and that Caprica’s baby is Ellen returning. It’s very likely. I do think it’s also likely that the images we see of the fetus with the glowing red spine are a bit ambiguous. A Cylon baby, even in this case, is just a Cylon baby. A special one perhaps, but just because we see that glowing spine doesn’t really make it anything out of the ordinary. I do think it’s too coincidental to pass up. It probably is Ellen, but I’m going to be safe and not jump to that conclusion just yet.
And here’s food for thought on the Earth controversy. We’ve been back and forth on whether that planet was or was not the real Earth. Here’s what I’ve thought about recently. I believe it was Earth, but put that aside for the moment. What if Earth is not just a place, but an idea? In other words, there is a real Earth, but the Earth the Scriptures speak of is a “Promised Land.” It’s not just one place, but the idea of a place to settle down and survive.
If that’s true, the planet may have been the real Earth (which I think it was/is), but it may not be “Earth” as the Scriptures speak of. It’s the right place, but the wrong concept. So the Fleet leaves the real Earth and finds another planet to settle on. That planet BECOMES Earth, because it’s fruitful enough to sustain them all.
So was that planet Earth or not? If this is true, it’s both. And neither. I don’t know. Just some thoughts.
February 3rd, 2009 at 5:11 pm
Um, where’s the podcast?
February 3rd, 2009 at 5:26 pm
trueedge
you might be right. i have thought that too only because in the 1st series, the fleet came across a few habitable planets finally coming to Terra which is another name for earth. in the scifi universe we are often called terrans. so this could be terra. as for Caprica’s baby, for some reason i still think that is Baltar’s baby. i know it has been a while since they were together but maybe cylon females can delay conception. sheron got pregnant as a test. i know that was head six but what if that is baltar’s kid. as of now, no cylon male has fathered a child. when Doc. examined sheron he said cylon physiology was different from human. sheron might have been in the brigg when when she went into labor hera was born in sick bay. with everything going on six may give birth in the brigg. also i not convinced helen is dead. as resilient as as cylons are, mere poison won’t cut it. helen is with the cavils.
February 3rd, 2009 at 6:28 pm
bandxdwayne, Caprica and Baltar have never been in close proximity since Caprican holocaust, except in the scene on Earth that ended Season 4.5, but Caprica is reaching for Saul. The most contact they’ve been allowed is her smelling a pen that Lampkin smuggled in when he saw her.
So it can’t be Baltar’s baby.
trueedge2097, there have been no cylon babies, so there can’t be a special one vs. an ordinary one. Hera was the first. I don’t think the baby can be Ellen, because Saul is the father…I think that youwillknowthetruth clue is just reminding us Caprica is going to have a baby…
And Caprica is nowhere near delivery time – that’s not for months.
We know that at least Ellen will appear as herself as she has ever been, in her 40’s (because the actress is in every one of the remaining episodes!)
I agree that the promised land is different than Earth. Earth is in the star charts, but the promised land is what the hybrids were talking about…so there just may be a difference! I hope so.
February 3rd, 2009 at 7:43 pm
hello tootie
this is the same Caprica from the baseship. remember she, Baltar and D’Anna were kickkin it after they left New Caprica. also
we really don’t know the time line. we do know that starbuck was M.I.A. for 2 months. as for the time between the Algea planet and kara’s viper blowing up, we don’t know. think Lost. they have gotten 4 years out of 3 months on the island. sure everybody looks a little haggared but the time line could fit after the algea planet. as i stated earlier maybe cylon females can delay conception. also Caprica had a head Baltar, she got her fantasy when he showed jumped to new caprica. it was a win win situation on that baseship. Baltar realized he loved Caprica when he was being tortured by D’Anna. also i gotta break it down to you concerning Saul and Caprica. this is a guy thing.
Saul’s sleeping with Caprica was just a booty call. he projected helen because they loved rough sex. him fighting Caprica was just a turn on for him. he doesn’t love her. he loved Helen. Caprica was there, willing and smokin hot. if he was into her he would not have projected Helen. of course they look happy right now because there is no Helen and he’s got a baby mama. when Helen shows up it’s going to be Cparica Who?
he won’t be torn, he won’t flinch. Caprica will be kicked to the curb. leaving Baltar. if cylons need love to procreate, they’re not it. Baltar and Caprica, Sharon and Helo, and if they fessed up Kara and Leoben.
just a thought
February 3rd, 2009 at 8:57 pm
Frak me. Best episode of the season so far.
February 3rd, 2009 at 10:11 pm
I accidentally posted this comment in the prior episode’s comment section. Please use it for this one.
Okay, I haven’t read all of the comments here but I would like to throw my two cents in.
In the last two episodes we have had a HUGE contrast in reactions to the final breaking point that Earth gave the fleet.
On one hand you have people like Roslin and Dee who turned to grief and sorrow and basically gave up on everything.
Then you have people like Gaeta and Zarek who turned to anger and hatred and decided that revenge was the best course of action.
This story has finally reached it’s turning point now and I truly believe it is at the low ebb of the story. In a movie with three acts, you always close the second act with the characters in the worst possible circumstances because you want to have the rousing finale. Now many of you whom I have spoken to know my feelings on this when it comes to BSG: “THERE ARE NO HAPPY ENDINGS IN BATTLESTAR GALACTICA!!!”
However, there has to be someplace for this to go and I think from this point out we are going to see the struggle back to salvation for the humans AND Cylons of the rag tag fleet.
Character predictions: (No Matt, I have NOT looked into the Crystal Ball for this. It’s all just a hunch!)
GAETA- He will rejoin his lost leg in the afterlife sooner rather than later. He will also do it by turning on Zarek because he will refuse to kill the old man.
ZAREK- I think he is finally going to get what’s been coming to him for a long time and I have a sneaky suspicion that Gaeta might be the one to do it.
GAGE AND VEREEN- Oh yeah, I cannot wait for these two frak heads to get tossed out an airlock.
LEE- I think that in the next 2-3 Episodes he is going to finally step up and take his rightful place as leader.
ROMO (MUTHA FRAKKIN) LAMPKIN- I have no idea what he will be doing in the next episode, but it will be all the better just for his presence in it.
That’s my story and I’m stickin to it mates!
February 3rd, 2009 at 10:19 pm
A CYLON WAR EXPLANATION:
I think I finally figured out the Cylon War and why it ended so abruptly!
The Cylons discovered the Final Five in the population of the Colonies! They have always said they know more about the religion and history of Kobol than the humans did! What if they knew that the 13th Tribe were Cylons?? That would explain why they wanted to find them!!!
It would also explain why, when the Cylons were doing a good job of kicking the Colonial’s asses during the first Cylon War, they suddenly declared an armistice and departed!
Saul Tigh was a pilot during the war. What if he was captured and they discovered his true nature? With the reverence that the Cylons have for the Final Five, it would explain why they decided to leave humanity alone. It comes right out of the first season Babylon 5 playbook!
More than likely it was one (or more) of the Final Five that set the Cylons on the road to discovering how to evolve into human forms. Maybe the realization that human form Cylons were on the Colonies was the impetus to stop the war and concentrate on evolving.
Also, one last thing to think on: The Final Five doesn’t mean the Final Five of the 12 models of Cylons, it means the Final Five of the 13th Tribe!
February 4th, 2009 at 12:21 am
I haven’t considered what it would mean for the fleet to be jumping w/Cylon tech. Have they covered whether the Hybrid would have any control
over the Fleets FTL drives ala “J U M P !”
And when (I think) Roslyn mentioned the Cylon Base ship jumping like a god taking Olympian steps across the galaxy (or whatever) it made me think the integrating of the human/Cylon ships and technology might be more than symbolic. One irony would be of course that in the end it was this ‘networking’ that saved the human race.
On that note, if the series ends with only Hera and her ilk surviving, it could be interpreted as not the end of the human race, but the adding of a new one – along the lines of parents feeling they are losing their daughter when she marries, when in actuality…they are gaining a son.
February 4th, 2009 at 2:17 am
Okay first: talking about funny moments in this epi w/Roslin and Bill making out? Both times Tigh’s reaction is the best: in the cabin he looks both surprised and seems to be thinking good for you my friend, you finally got some guts and got your woman; rock on! He does it again in that place they go to before everyone else leaves–there he just looks even more surprised that they’re “out” so to speak.
I have also done some thinking:
i have found in my writings on this epi that there are parallels between Baltar and Ellen, rather than Kara and Baltar. I know Baltar and Kara have a connection, and we still need to know why Laura has these visions; especially between jumps on the base ship, and the Opera House w/Caprica 6, Sharon, Hera, and even Baltar. I think that the one connection between Baltar and Starbuck is that they have both clearly died and come back to life. They have also had specific purposes, and done many things that have helped turn the tide of humanity. However, Baltar has done more to altar humanity’s fate than anyone.
The reasons why I find Baltar and Ellen more alike are the following:
They are both very self-centered and are survivors. Why? Baltar has done everything he can to remain alive, including leading his harem. Ellen has always been a survivor, as she too survived the holocaust w/questionable reasons, as did Baltar. If Caprica resurrected, something must have happened that we are yet to find out.
Helen ends up doing herself in with her desire to not only survive but get Saul out of jail. She trades secrets of a resistance mission to Cavil to get Tigh back, and did not think about the people it would affect. Tigh than has to kill her or someone else would because she was a traitor to her people, but not to him. She never saw the big picture.
Baltar is the exact same: He has an affair w/Caprica, who ends up rigging the system he created, and blew up the colonies. Naturally it was his narcissism, vanity, that was used by Caprica to manipulate him, and he knew it. It was like he was the kid who was beaten up in school, and then became rich and powerful, but still was a scared little boy inside. Which we find out he was from a planet that was considered low on the social scale? Particularly the accent, remember that during the trial? He always wants to be liked, and I think that is why he gives the bomb to Gina (right?), but then couldn’t believe that she blew herself up, which she did so that the cylons would find them. He betrayed humanity, and I think, did not consider the bigger picture; AGAIN. i also say this because when he realizes in LDBYII that he is the reason the cylons show up AGAIN, the look on his face is priceless. Especially when he sees Head 6 say “Judgement Day”.
The need to be liked is seen by Ellen’s sleeping around, and in Baltar’s sleeping around, as well as hte gestures described above. But the lack of vision to see the affect of their actions beyond themselves, is the same as well.
Don’t get me wrong, I love both these characters, and Baltar? From Day 1 he was so great, especially how 6 always had some hot red dress on when she was telling the future etc..
Also two questions:
Who is Laird? I can’t remember who he was and everyone talks about him. Is he the civilian Chief?
What was the real reason the cylons nuked the colonies? Do we ever actually know?
We also never found out why the first cylon was stopped so suddenly and if it had anything to do w/what Husker saw on that planet after her crashed?
food for thought—night all!
A
February 4th, 2009 at 2:18 am
sorry to double post, I mean Ellen, not Helen–sorry all, I guess it’s too late
A
February 4th, 2009 at 2:59 am
I can’t believe all these comments hating Gaeta for taking charge. Lee nails the issue right on the head when he turns to Tigh and scoffs at the idea of a grand and glorious peace with the race that wiped out 99.9% of humanity, literally billions of lives nuked away. There has never been an atonement for those crimes, which every active Significant Seven made a long and calculated decision to be a part of. In fact, there has never been any direct remorse; Lee Oben (until he sees Starbuck with Starbucks corpse) is obsessed with God via Kara. Six is getting harder and harder to watch since all she does is make dramatic claims about the situation she finds herself in before changing her mind, and wanting to get pregnant/loving being pregnant. She is also a complete racist, just of a wealthier cut so she doesn’t have to actively hate, she can instead passively ignore, dwelling on the glorious Cylon future sans any mention of humans. Dianna, she would do it again right now, just like pointing her nukes at the fleet, if she felt there would be any advantage in the action. The other baseship Cylons are no better.
Gaeta is finally attempting to bring justice back into this galactic conflict, where harsh decisions about life have slowly stripped away every truly human concern until we have found ourselves empty, with only the animal concern: survival. Living every day is part Adama brushing his teeth, putting on the uniform, ‘do your job’, but there needs to be an attempt toward justice, however flawed in human conceptions and execution. That’s emulating God. The Cylons look over this detail when they imagine their favored place in the universe and before the Higher Power, since no God we would conceive and desire would bless the actions they have taken.
I do agree with some earlier posts that watching Gaeta meekly lie all over the place in the CIC is not becoming compared to a valiant stride into the command center declaring his decision, but it makes perfect sense why he took this course of action (less violence, greater probability of success), and people, admit that he did it really, really well. Fake fire near the arms lockers, dredis ghost, send the marines with the fire team, losing comms, screening out Kara and Lee, and finally seizing the bridge. Awesome.
Zarak killing the deck chief was a shock (and for a minor character I liked him too) and it made me pay attention to what he said to Gaeta, the gist being, ‘no hesitation, commit, all the way’. Still, it was a horrible and not entirely necessary act and when I also think of the Pegasus guy drooling venom against Helo and over Athena, I am disturbed that the writers are including a broad stroke of filth on the revolution and thereby foreshadowing its demise. It would be all the more interesting if both sides are right, coming from their point of view, instead of the standard good guys vs. ugly villains. On the contrary, I think the revolutioneers are far more right, and I wish it were played out more as tragic combat between good people clashing under two different, understandable banners of ideals.
How great is Colonel Tigh? I’ll serve with him any time. Drink with him now and then. Fistfight on occasion.
More Baltar.
February 4th, 2009 at 3:25 am
Hello all!!
great episode. I’ve been watching “The Oath” on hulu all day. I was thinking about a few things the other day. If these have already been covered, sorry…I haven’t had time lately to check the boards.
Gaeta: sooo….Baltar calls him on his “hunger for redemption”…” great suffering” – his leg…. “Clawing toward the light” – his idealism?….”howl of great suffering” – his singing!?!?…maybe Tigh was projecting Ellen again, like he did with Caprica six.
Adama: I may be grasping at straws, but…in “Disquiet follows my soul”…it seems as though Bill was a bit sick. He was coughing more, taking pills, looked tired, even Tigh noticed. I was wondering, maybe its he who is the dying leader and not Roslin. He did make that big promise to lead the people to a new home. Of course he could have just been getting over a hangover from “Sometimes a great notion”.
Tigh/Capirca: Not really theorizing, just noticing how very nice they were towards each other in the baby monitor scene. I mean just a few episodes back, he had her by the neck and yelling at her. Now it sounded like they were dating for like 4 years or something. kinda made me laugh a bit.
The Mutiny: I don’t know about you all, but I was like, “no..not racetrack, not Narcho, not Seelix, etc.” and when Laird was killed, I was thinking ok…looks like character shields are starting to get eroded.
Seelix/Anders: Nothing new, I was just thinking how easy it was for Anders to get into the Viper training program and there had to be a near revolution for Seelix to get in. Maybe there was something to that Capricans get favored over other colonies thing Baltar and Cally were poking at a season ago.
February 4th, 2009 at 3:37 am
The plot: the mutiny Right and wrong is never black and white.
As others have pointed out, Gaeta and Zarek aren’t wrong. There are legitimate concerns with the risk Adama and Roslin (she gave her full support) are taking in upgrading the ships FTLs.
Gaeta absolutely believes that he’s doing what is necessary to protect the fleet. He’s taking a chance and sacrificing lives, he’s an individual, making a choice, acting on his convictions and his experiences.
At the same time, Adama is doing what he thinks best to protect the fleet. To Adama, it’s all they have left. Adama is pragmatic. He’s not wrong, either. If supplies are limited, if options are limited, if they have nothing left, then maybe trusting the Cylons and seeking alliance is the last, best hope for humanity. And they have to look for the future.
Our heroes can certainly be faulted for not explaining to the fleet the advantages of installing Cylon technology. Adama has never been a particularly good politician and has often underestimated or misunderstood the popular realities. But our heroes had proven themselves again and again and again. Humanity owes its survival to these people. Ultimately, you have to take that into consideration when those whose good judgment and ability has brought the human race through so many crises.
Although the mutineers and rebels are talking the talk of liberty, justice and the Colonial way and may have a legitimate issue, they seem to be acting out of personal ambition or because of fear, hate and their own personal grievances.
In a democracy one of the things that is not done is killing ones rivals for power. Gaeta took step after step down a path he can’t turn back from now. The people that are dying in this mutiny, killed by their fellows, are killing because of a fierce indifference. They were simply in the way. These people stood up to a coup, and were killed, by people claiming to do the right thing.
This coup can’t possibly make Zarek look good, regardless of their cylon fears, not when he is basically doing the same thing he accused Roslin of doing: Roslin’s transmission was cut in half (good democratic means). They are going to try to kill the President.
I recall Adama’s speech in the mini-series. He asked “why, as a race, Humans deserve to survive”. This episode answered his question. When given the opportunity, humans will always turn on each other — even in the direst of circumstances.
Now, they charge Adama with treason! I’m very curious about the cause of action…
Why? Because he oversteps his boundaries sometimes? Because his best friend revealed as cylon, the same cylon who saved their lives ? Because his saved human race again and again?
The characters
Adama and Roslin
Adama the dictator… It’s really tiring to read that.
One would believe people keeping saying that don’t understand the character.
He’s an ADMIRAL. The military is pretty serious about following the chain of command and not questioning orders. RDM has at heart to make one point that – that the military mindset doesn’t grasp the whole idea of persuasion, the need to sell civilians the why of their decision.
“Should” Adama have considered the feelings of the fleet? Yes, but that’s neither his priority concern nor job.
That’s Roslin’s role. SHE is the civilian politician. She’s been the partner who makes the Fleet understand Adama’s military command decisions. Without her mediating for Adama, convincing people to accept Cylon FTL technology passed by the military command culture.
Roslin and Adama have become much more autocratic since New Caprica. And yet, in situation “like this” our own Constitutions provide a great deal of powers to the executive. There’s a good argument that Baltar’s election shook their faith in democracy. They allowed the people’s will to win out, and something like 8,000 people died. Try to imagine!
They both are so weary, so shaken by Earth; they needed to take a break and find their reasons for continuing to shoulder the insane level of responsibility they both have. Roslin couldn’t stop caring about the fate of that fleet. These are HER people, not the means to the end that Zarek sees them as being. Roslin was finding her footing, and getting ready to go.
Lee
Good to see Lee explains the fears of some that Zarek and Gaeta’s position was somehow ‘wrong’ just because their actions are extreme and unhelpful. On the contrary he told them, more so than last week that the mutineers had some very valid arguments.
Yet, very true Adama’s point about how it is ‘all we got’ is.
Zarek
This episode made it very clear to me why Adama has always said he will not hand the Presidency over to Tom Zarek.
Tom Zarek does not care about the individuals of the fleet, or what their lives represent. They are just serfs to him, regardless of his speeches about the rights of people; he killed Laird because men don’t matter to him.
By killing him, he made everything Adama said about him last week true. It was the act of a brutal man with no regard for human life or justice. At that moment, his true colors were displayed.
He is a political opportunist. Has everyone forgotten that he persuaded Baltar to support the colonization of New Caprica NOT because he was convinced that it was good for humanity but because he recognized it as an issue that would swing the election to Baltar?
The issue for him right now is not whether it is right or wrong to install cylon technology; it’s rather this moment is his best opportunity to grab power and take down Adama and Roslin.
Gaeta
I understand Gaeta’s motivations. It’s all biased on emotion and about easing his own guilt and pain (and yet, he started all of this before Quorum’s vote, so his true motivations aren’t the purest ones). If he had said, “Admiral, there are people in the fleet who will have a problem with this, including myself, and here’s why,” perhaps Adama & Co. wouldn’t have ignored him. We didn’t see him trying.
And while he has a valid point, he has once again, gone the wrong way about getting his voice heard. When civilians start dying, even innocent people, who refused to join the mutiny, start dying, I fail to see how that justifies his actions. He’s become a dictator within just a few hours.
The primary goal of what’s left of the fleet is finding a hospitable planet that they can call home, and all he’s doing is causing more death and destruction, splintering the fleet, when really all the fleet has is each other and the protection of Galactica. And Gaeta has destroyed the Galactica family, fragile. His action now has had large scale ramifications and splintered the unity of the one thing that had kept the fleet together. I understand everything he is doing and why, he did have such a detailed plan or things would be even worse, judging by the level of resistance (which seems considerable) but the man has fractured something vital and turned beloved side characters against one another.
If Adama and Tigh hadn’t trusted him so completely, he would never have been able to get as far as he did before being discovered. Seeing such deep betrayal is shocking.
And now he has the gall to accuse Adama of treason!
The mutineers
Zarek and Gaeta had to be very careful in picking up their men. So they approached the ones who have a lot of anger, hate, bitterness… Pegasus old crew members: in the midst of a coup one’s already planning his next cylon rape!
The only thing that keeps Connor standing is his anger, and his wish to have some vengeance upon the people who are responsible for the death of his son. His sole reason for living seems to be to make those responsible pay, and he’ll take his opportunities where he finds them. Killing Lee was about the role he played in having Baltar acquitted.
Racetrack believes in democracy, and really, part of the most disturbing things is that Zarek was able to push people’s buttons with what appeared to be a negation of democracy. But she didn’t blink when he killed Laird!
The loyalists
Even though the mutiny was meticulously planned and a complete shock, we still saw and heard a lot of resistance against it and yet the loyalists managed to get their hands on weapons and are still fighting hours after the arrest of Adama and even the specialist who took over Felix’s station seemed very hesitant about sending in marines against the engine room loyalists and it will be hard and bloody work to root out people if they have barricaded themselves.
Others points
The look on Thigh’s face when Laura walked in her robe was priceless.
Chief Laird, probably the most innocent soul in the fleet.
Mom and Dad kiss while the twins awkwardly look away.
February 4th, 2009 at 9:27 am
Athena: Laird is the Pegasus’ Chief, he got recruited from one of the civilian ships, his family left behind.
February 4th, 2009 at 11:58 am
I Know what will happen.
Remember. It has all happened before, it will happen again.
Facts?
Humans worship many gods, mainly 12. Cylons worship one god. Perhaps one of the gods that the humans use to.
Cylons hate humans, for the most part. Why? Cylons were the inhabitants of Earth 2000 yrs before humans created the Cylons. How? Cylons are the 13th tribe. Pythia wrote the prophecies that lead humans to earth. Cylons can’t reproduce without humans.
So lets look at this from the beginning
13 tribes on kobal
One leaves. why? 12 left, perhaps because the 12 other tribes or their leaders/gods didn’t like the 13th (Cylons)
Perhaps the cylon god was once a part of the leadership group, like a delegate for his tribe or president (or Hera).
My ideology is based on the thought that there is a direct correlation between what happened in the distant past between humans and Cylons and the characters involved then and what is happening now and the characters that we all love and hate. So in order to find out what will happen we need to find out what has happened.
I think the Cylons that attacked the colonies and the Cylons that were on Earth are decedents from two different groups of Cylons.
The Cylons that left kobal (the 13th tribe) and settled Earth correlate directly to the rebel Cylons of today. They will get citizenship become the 13th tribe and get a delegate (13th member) but sometime in the future for whatever reason they will leave humanity’s new world (new Kobol). The Cylons that attacked the colonies correlate to the main body of the remaining Cylons (Cavil’s group that are now on the hunt for humans and rebel Cylons)
Starbuck or Roslin correlate to Pythia, writer of the scrolls
Lee or Geata is the dying leader
The tribe delegates/quorum correlate to the lords of Kobol
Hera is the Cylon god or leader that will lead the rebel group away to settle the new earth, along with Baltar/his followers (believers in One god).
OR Hera correlates to Starbuck who is part Cylon (they both do strange drawings)
So humans move from the world they will settle with the rebel Cylons (new kobol) after they’re population grows too large and move to twelve planets, one for each tribe. They then create a new group of Cylons for slaves. They then fight and the Cylons leave. Those Cylons then find and lead the remnants/descendants of the now main body of Cylons(Cavil’s Cylon’s remnants) back to the new twelve colonies. And the cycle continues
All this has happened before, it will happen again.
February 4th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
So the Final Five came from earth, they are the rebel cylons of past, who along with humans (Hera) learned to reproduce.
The 7 human model Cylons, who could not reproduce like they’re earthen brotheren, are descendants/remnants of evil Cylons of past, along with human made Cylons, who lead them back to twelve colonies, which explains why human made Cylons returned forty years later seemingly so much more advanced.
February 4th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
No offense or anything, but SRSLY! Where is this BSGcast? The new episode is almost upon us and we have gotten an award show in the meantime. Can we please get some episode BSGcasts, the thing we’re (most likely) here for?
February 4th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
They’re still too devastated because of what their precious golden-boy Gaeta has done and what’s coming for him. “Why, Oh Why??? Please don’t let him die, PLEASE!”
February 4th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
bandxdwayne, I am so sorry, forgot Baltar was on the basestar for a while. My apologies – DOH!
Battlestar-Tighe-Alchohol Says: “I am disturbed that the writers are including a broad stroke of filth on the revolution and thereby foreshadowing its demise. It would be all the more interesting if both sides are right, coming from their point of view, instead of the standard good guys vs. ugly villains.”
Agreed – very good point indeed. Would be nice if it could work, but I think the writers are correct that people like that Pegasus guy are going to take advantage of power and abuse people, it’s not about ideals and morality to them. Remember also that Starbuck shot at the marine whom Adama let go – I know for a fact that not everyone watching liked seeing her do that. However, she is protecting her side, not abusing her power….but still.
Ben, BSGCast will come. Remember that Matt and Nat just organized a huge AMAZING event in California and that they have busy successful careers to tend to, in order to pay their bills like you and I. They do this on their own time and also set up and paid for this great forum out of their own pockets and on their own time. In short, they are GODS. They are no doubt wading through all the great comments here before they do their ‘Cast – so hold on!
Cheers,
Tootie
February 4th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
Hey guys,
Just something I thought about…we know the actress playing Ellen is supposed to be in the final episodes…but does that really mean Ellen will appear alive and well? If she is really dead, what if they put her in as a Head Ellen?
February 4th, 2009 at 5:32 pm
Yes, Tootie, I understand all of this, and I’m sorry that my comment sounds so rude
Sorry, I’m just extremely, and I mean extremely, anxious for the next episode. I need every bit of BSG stuff as I can get lol 
February 4th, 2009 at 5:34 pm
Yes, I understand all that, and I’m sorry, I’m just SUPER anxious for the new BSG episode. Sorry for my comment sounding so rude
February 4th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
wow what an incredible episode, i loved the adrenilin pumping scenes and i loved the way that they used it as an excuse to bring back minor characters in a while, this was essentially an ep where the minor and secondary characters (geata, zarek, seelix) were the major players and the main characters were for the most part minor players.
now for my character breakdown
Racetrack nooooooooo why did she have to be evil i was rely hoping she would step in before they shot apollo, i find it hard to believe that after so long of being the mediator (remeber how she stopped skulls when chief almost blow up their raptor) that she would just stand idily by as they shot apollo but still in terms of showing how widespread the revolt was she was definetly the best choice as apart from obviously the main characters, she was the one that i was really expecting to side with adama so when she was in on it my first thought was, holy frak this is deep.
Seelix is someone ive always liked and when she walked in on anders i was really hoping here she could befriend him and help them, so she could get away from the cylon hating stereotype she has become but it was not to be, she did the same thing she does every week, swear about cylons.
and im annoyed they only revealed about geata and hoshi in the webisodes cause that could have led to some very interesting dynamics and choices for geata considering they are opposite sides
Charlie connor and pegasus rapist guy, now that was random these were bit characters that have come back out of nowhere which seems to me they’ve only been brought back to be killed in the next couple eps which tells me they are a bit short of people to kill which doesn’t bode well for well… anyone
What the hell has happened to tory though she;s been in the last 3 eps for maybe 5 minutes and the three other final cylons in the fleet were all there so what the hell
Best moments have to be: tigh’s face when roslin walks out of adama’s bedroom just priceless i laughed so hard and when adama swings the gun around to shoot the marine on the floor that was quite simply… cool
February 4th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
thanks Archont, that’s what I had thought. I have to say that Lee is definitely not the dying leader, maybe there isn’t one? The scrolls were proved wrong afterall, isn’t that one of the reasons why people are feeling so hopeless, and some of the pilots are attending Baltar’s services? I am so glad he’s back.
As for Tory: she has been conspicuously absent lately! I think because the story had not yet gotten to the base ship, where it now is we didn’t see her. She bugs me , but I have to say that she literally made the move to be a full scale cylon because she had no real connection to humanity w/out Roslin. I never knew that taking orders from Roslin bothered her so much, but hey, I think she’s on borrowed time. Why? Wait until Tyrol finds out she killed Cally, and I hope Helo jumps in to back him up—just for good measure
.
A
February 4th, 2009 at 7:18 pm
Athena- You’re right about Tory. I was looking around YouTube the other day and came across a clip from the upcoming episode. The clip is of Roslin and Baltar coming into the command room of the Basestar, where the Cylons begin asking what’s going on (Tori is there). There’s mention that “one pilot didn’t shoot us down, but the other wasn’t as hesitant” (or something along those lines), which suggests that Hotdog didn’t go through with the shooting and Narcho did (or the reverse). But you are right, Athena, Tori wasn’t in last week’s episode because she was on the Basestar with her peeps.
February 4th, 2009 at 7:40 pm
Best moment – Tigh putting his blind eye to the gun sight
February 4th, 2009 at 10:15 pm
Just a fun bit of hypothetical theorizing… but in the Canadian preview we hear Zarek saying the penalty for Adama’s crimes is “death by firesquad” and then see Adama standing blindfolded in an airlock tube. But we also saw a preview with Gaeta saying “I didn’t agree to this, it’s murder!” and Zarek saying “Yes, you did.” In addition, in the Canadian preview we see it’s actually Gaeta himself somewhat casually giving the order to fire. My wild hypothesis: Adama isn’t the one on the receiving end. As for who it might actually be, who knows? Perhaps Gaeta’s decided Zarek is a liability to the effort to peacefully control the fleet?
February 4th, 2009 at 10:38 pm
a- Tigh didn’t put his blind eye to the gunsight. If you look closely, he actually lowers his head past his blind eye to the only eye he has left.
BTW- I was watching “Damages” on FX and they had a commercial for the next episode of Nip/Tuck and Katee “Starbuck” Sackhoff will be guest starring.
February 4th, 2009 at 11:31 pm
I am still going with my old prediction that the 5th would be dead… and that all five of the F5 would have to die before they can all be resurrected. If they all start dying off, you can bet your donuts that they will come back together.
February 5th, 2009 at 2:52 am
Comments on “The Oath”:
Starbuck seems to have realized at least subconsciously that she only feels right when she’s fighting and killing. It’s only a step or two until she accepts her role as Harbinger. She also snuck in a bit of Latin with her Marine motto after she rescues Lee (what up with that?).
The sweet romantic refrain when Adama and Roslin kiss is inspired/recycled from the Serenity soundtrack.
In the preview, when Roslin shouts “I’m coming for all of you!” I can’t help but think of Wyatt Earp from Tombstone when he spares Ike Clanton to send a message to the baddies: “You tell ‘em I’m coming for them, and Hell’s coming with me, ya hear? HELL’S COMING WITH ME!”
Predictions:
Tigh really dies. Recall the season 4.5 teaser trailer where Adama is crying over a body bag. When I first saw it I thought it was Roslin he was mourning, but it makes as much sense for it to be Tigh in the bag (especially considering how Tigh would probably be scraping Adama off the floor to share a bottle of rotgut if it were Roslin in the bag).
Gaeta spends time in the brig after the Galactica is retaken. From the youwillknowthetruth site, we see a sort of role reversal with Baltar coming to see Gaeta in hack, with Gaeta regaling Baltar with his talk of studying architecture and designing fast-food restaurants or some such. I have a feeling Baltar will get bored of listening to him pontificate about something that is not Baltar-related and decide to shiv him in the throat with a pen (or maybe that’s wishful thinking on my part).
I’ve read on here that several think Hera will become a new Lord of Kobol-type character, but I disagree. I think Hera will be more along the lines of a new Pithia, recording her fuzzy memories from her childhood alongside what little she can glean from the few survivors when they settle on whatever planet they end up on. Whoever is left to raise her will have a slanted take on all that happened, most will be trying to forget the gory details and revise their accounts into generalizations and metaphor, and she will end up recording a history that is both detailed in certain aspects (drawings taken from schematics and photos) and cryptic in others. In a couple hundred generations, the descendants will be just as confused about her writings as the colonials were about Pithia’s scrolls.
February 5th, 2009 at 3:30 am
Regarding Kobol, Earth, and the tribes, I’m thinking that the 13th tribe was originally comprised of humans (in whole or in large part). There was a religious-based civil war that drove them from Kobol to find a new world to call home. Those that survived fled first to the algae planet (analogous to New Caprica in it’s inability to support a large society), then onward to Earth. Those that survived the journey interbred with their cylon-like synthetic companions, ensuring that their descendants have cylon gene-markers while possessing individuality and fertility (and perhaps some sort of genetic memory).
Eventually the 12 tribes find where they went, maybe b/c representatives from the 13th returned, or else they just stumbled upon Earth. The war resumes, with Kobol’s fleet nuking Earth in a sneak attack. The remnants of Earth’s forces manage to destroy the Kobol fleet, then return to Kobol to settle the score with an army of toasters. The 12 tribes realize what’s coming for them and thus begins the Exodus to find new worlds to call home. The onslaught of the 13th tribe leads the 12 tribes to be “banished from Kobol, never to return without a sacrifice in blood.” Perhaps it was New Caprica-ish in that the toasters of the 13th tribe occupied Kobol, but the 12 tribes escaped (or were allowed to depart forever). After the 12 tribes left, what remained of the 13th wasn’t genetically viable (less than 50,000 survivors, maybe only 12 or 13). A few (lets say 5) of the Earthers may have stowed away with the retreating 12 tribes to try and blend in and regain some semblance of societal support and interaction. One of them may even have been Pithia, though that need not be so. As the FF probably were resurrected as skin-jobs (thanks to Doc Ellen) after being nuked, they probably couldn’t breed with each other, but found that they could breed with humans of the 12 tribes, with their children retaining certain genetic memories which were diluted and partially lost over succeeding generations.
Well, that’s one theory anyway ;o)
February 5th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
Hola fellow BSGeeks,
I’m loving all the chatter on here. Fear not, the episode shall be posted later today. Matt’s editing it beside me, right now.
Booyah.
~Nat
February 5th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
Thank the Gods, I was starting to worry something had happened. Hope all is well.
I loved this weeks ep. and got my wish to see Kara and Lee working together again kicking ass.
Favorite moments: Tigh’s reaction to Roslyn’s casual ‘Good Morning’ as she came out of Adama’s Room.
Starbuck saving Apollo from Conner and Racetrack. (Racetrack? What a heartbreak?)
Starbuck, Apollo, Tigh and Baltar’s reaction to THE KISS. Priceless! Baltar almost seemed happy about it.
I’ve read most of the posts you all have some really great intelligent theories.
Did anyone else notice that after Gaeta gave the order to destroy Laura’s and Baltar’s Raptor the “WatchTower Music” started and it seemed as if the guy required to relay Gaeta’s order reacted to it I could not be sure, several beats after the music began you could hear a commotion outside the CIC?
I’m looking forward to hearing what you guys thought.
February 5th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
I was just popping in here to see if the BSGCast was ever going up.
February 5th, 2009 at 4:53 pm
Was any1 else loving Starbuck in this episode? She really did go a little bit mental, just wanted 2 kill every1 on wrong side of her & also jump Lee’s bone, loving the who mutiny thing!
Its good 2 see crazy Starbuck back again!! :L
February 5th, 2009 at 10:33 pm
I think it is interesting that Starbuck felt more alive now that she was killing people, I guess she really is the harbinger of death after all…
February 5th, 2009 at 11:11 pm
Hey! Where’s a video review of the episode!? You guys have a loyal fan base to appease!
February 5th, 2009 at 11:41 pm
Starbuck feels more alive than ever because she has purpose again: saving Lee and Adama. She hasn’t had anything really to live for these days, and suicide is not really an option, (she has to find out what she is afterall). I think that’s part of the motivation behind the revolution, as people have nothing to live for, ie. they have no one purpose, no goal w/out earth or fighting the cylons. Ironically the cylons have given them purpose all these years, and perhaps given their difficult lives some purpose: survival! earth!
A good leader, aka Roslin, should’ve have spoken sooner, it was irresponsible. I know it was devastating beyond compare, but instead of saying they sent all those people to die for no reason, they should have been seeing and satying the truth: they were never dying for nothing; they were saving their race. It didn’t matter whether there was earth or not, earth was a brilliant design, that they thought was truth, that helped human beings have hope, and keep up the will to live. Great leaders must stand strong in these times, and I was surprised and still am, that no one has said, even once that no one has died for nothing all these years. Although I’m sure clarity is difficult at this time, but leadership was more essential than ever.
I know Roslin is dying, but she boldly took the role of dying leader, and lead humanity towards survival, she should have been strong, like Adama, and said something, anything.
It’s hard to condemn their lack of leadership; but hey they just needed a good PR person, to bad Tory likes pretending being an FF is really great, and our Billy died so long ago.
Can’t wait for tomorrow’s epi!
A
February 6th, 2009 at 6:14 am
What’s so special about Sam Anders?
Whilst in the brig Athena turns to Anders and Six, saying “Right now they need us alive to use, as bargaining chips against the rebel cyclones.”. Then specifically to Anders she says “Especially you!” to which Anders replies “Look if you’re expecting some grand wisdom you can forget it, I don’t have anymore answers than you do”.
So is there something special about Anders that has not been revealed yet? Or is it that the 7 think the 5 are special in some way? Or do the 7 think that the humans believe the 5 are special in someway?
A thought has just struck me. I am sure I read/heard somewhere that the music that the 4 kept hearing in their heads and that brought them together was written by Anders, with this being revealed when Anders, Tyrol and Tigh were remembering their past during “A Disquiet Follows My Soul”. Does this mean that Anders has some sort of power or sway of influence over the other Cylons?
February 6th, 2009 at 6:33 am
Bits of this were a little heavy-handed, like Gage’s rant to Helo, but overall this was a great episode. It was really tense the entire time and well-paced, and I can’t wait to see how it turns out. I feel horrible for both sides, because pretty much everyone has completely frakked the situation up – and yes, I include both Team One-Leg and the Adama/Roslin Co-Dictatorship. Gaeta and Zarek have perfectly reasonable grievances, even if they’re slightly more in the wrong here. It’s funny how as soon as it’s someone else overthrowing the government that Adama suddenly gets all angry and yells about no amnesty or redemption. Meanwhile, Kara is in full-on super-bitch mode, even when just talking to Hotdog and then when trying to murder that unarmed marine.
Maybe it would be best if, say, the Fighting Agathons, Tyrol (plus Nicky and his other daddy), Hoshi, Anders, and maybe Lee all got onto their own ship and jumped off into the great beyond, because at this point I’m pretty sure they’re the only ones really worth saving at this point. Well, okay, the Centurions can come along, too. The most they’ve done is shoot Cavil, which on this show makes them saints.
February 6th, 2009 at 7:38 am
Ian, I don’t think there is anything significant to what Athena said to Anders. The S7 think the F5 have answers and right now they don’t.
I loved Starbuck in this episode more than… probably ever (and yes, I realize I once made a Starbuck video but that was by request.. I have never been a huge fan of her). She was pretty much an amalgamation of all the Starbuck’s we have known. She was confused, angry, daring, heroic, vicious, passionate, and romantic all in the span of a few minutes… and it worked. I don’t think there was a missed beat in the entire episode.
February 6th, 2009 at 8:51 am
Fraktacular episode of Battlestar Galactica last Friday which leaves me gasping for resolution. A query in regards to Nat’s comment about being “annoyed” about the lack of screen time the “planning” of the mutiny received. Basically, you not only want to see the mutiny, but you want the details, surprises and shock value of the mutiny spoilt by Gaeta and Zarek sitting down with a pen and paper jotting down notes, possible outcomes, list of personnel who’s on their side, who isn’t…come on that’s anticlimactic, it wouldn’t grab your attention as much and more importantly it would be dull to the extreme. The ONLY way it could have possibly worked would have been to have mirrored a conversation Gaeta and Zarek could have had, placing that dialogue over the montage of scenes which all pan out, but I think Mr Moore has it right in this particular instance, and i’m afraid you’ll have to be annoyed Nat.
Also I like you picking up on the point Matt that I made last week about Hera. I truly believed the retcon “decylonification” (can’t think where I stole that word from) of Nikki was to place more emphasis on Hera, because Baltar’s “Head Six” has always maintained that she is the first of the new race and that she is possibly more important than any of the twelve cylons that we now know of. To have two cylon hybrid children nullifies the importance of Hera’s birth so whilst it may have been a little on the clumsy side, it does make sense and I appreciate the fact you do to.
Thirdly, and again while appreciating your point that the twelfth cylon thread has seemingly gone missing, I don’t think it’s of upmost importance when there’s a full scale mutiny is taking place, it’d be like someone having to run back to their bunk because they realised they left the light on. This sequence will play out for the next and possibly subesquent episode, which leaves them with a healthy five episodes with which to reveal and shed some light on some issues which needs some serious questions answered (not forgetting that the last three will undoubtedly constitute more than 40 minutes worth of screen time individually).
Lastly, while I hope Tigh hasn’t been executed and that he’s merely been placed in the holding cell with the rest of the onboard cylon brigade (and Helo, who decided, since he wasn’t XO or CAG or in the gym that particular day, that he’d join them), there’s every opportunity that there is a Ellen and Tigh reunion on the cards. We’re uncertain as to what happens to these final five cylons, they resurrect in a completely different way to their contemporaries and this could be a means for this particular revelation to take place, perhaps Ellen’s words of “we’ll be with each other again” resonate beyond her last incarnation.
February 6th, 2009 at 9:14 am
Well, rewatching ‘The Oath,’ with Gaeta eviling orchestrating CIC, I couldn’t help but think how CONVENIENT it was that Dee offed herself. RDM said they offed her because she was such a ’sweet’ character and that suicide would be shocking for such as her….but methinks it was also her to clear the way in CIC…for Gaeta would have had to remove her some other way, the mutiny wouldn’t have happened on Dee’s watch.
Funny I am also rewatching the series (near start of season 2 now) and I notice how Gaeta covers for Dee’s unlogged scrambled calls to get Lee and Roslin off the ship…interesting.
Tootie
February 6th, 2009 at 10:21 am
I need to apologize to the BSG gods because I got a little complacent with the show. As I was watching I had a “ho hum attitude about the show” and then it happen. Starbuck came in just in time to save Apollo. But no just in typical fashion but she came in like Dirty Harry, Guns blazing, and she made me jump out of my seat and cheer. From that point on I was on the edge of my seat and BSG had my full attention again. Bravo RDM! Keep it coming.
February 6th, 2009 at 10:36 am
I had to pause this review for a few moments because I BOLed. (Burst Out Laughing-ed).
When I came to, I realized that yes, Nat, it was indeed awesome seeing Adama “poppin’ a cap into that Marine’s mutineering ass”.
Too funny.
Keep the Statue
February 6th, 2009 at 10:57 am
Speaking to next weeks teaser. The idea of Tigh dying would be great. We are unsure if or where the final 5 resurrect. With Tigh dead, we could see an episode where he resurrects in a place that will push the story to its end game. This will also make Ellens choice as the final Cylon more impactful as Tigh would now need to confront what he did to her. Not to mention Adama going ape shit for the death of his closest friend. It’s gonna be awesome!
February 6th, 2009 at 11:14 am
i dont think i phrased my earlier post too well so im guna retype it here
the thing i rely loved about this episode is that usually the major characters make decisions and the minor characters have to react to it and just go along with the plan but here it was basically an uprising of the minor characters against the major characters with roslin and adama etc all having to react to the plans of the minor characters
that make more sense?
February 6th, 2009 at 11:50 am
Hello!
I dont know about you all, but I when the marines shot Pvt. Jaffee, I was like, ” NOOOoo. Who is going to serve Adama his algea-coffee now!?!” Adama is going to have to do his memory exercises again (especially now that alot of the crew are probably going to die) and we are going to have to hear his wife scream at him again.
February 6th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
Sorry for this, but I just noticed…Java+Coffee = Jaffee. lol. He was forever destined to serve coffee.
February 6th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
Saul dying might be good. It would let the show get out of the ship similar to when Helo was on Carpica. You would have concurrent storylines with Saul, Ellen (and maybe one or more of the final five) walking around earth (or the “real” earth) finding out what they are. Then they all meet up on one of the last two episodes.
February 6th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
with the return of so many minor characters i for one would like to see bulldog make a heroic return to save adama. just thinking out loud. DAMN i love this show!
February 6th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
Ah there it is XD
Okay, well first off the episode was epic win. Gaeta is gonna get it so bad. But damn let’s do some theory waxing.
On the subject of Ellen Tigh (who I guessed correctly
). I’m getting the feeling that we might not actually see any kind of major character development throughout the course of few remaining episodes. Here’s why.
First of all let’s look at Saul Tighs flashback. Saul didn’t seem to know about the plan to Resurect the Final Five among the colonials, however Ellen DID seem to know. So MAYBE she was the one in charge of resurecting the final five.
I mean, if you look back at Season 1 and 2 at all the things she did to stir up trouble aboard Galactica. It’s possible there was a little bit more to her than just being a bad influence on Saul and being the “Lady McCbaeth” figure. Maybe she KNEW she was a Cylon from day 1. Maybe Baltar did too?
Now lets look at Earth. We know now for a fact it was a Cylon planet (wether or not it’s our Earth is still debatable. Though i quite like the idea that we’re all Cylons XD). However, we know that the Cylons who started the First Cylon War with the Colonials, were manufactured by several Coporations. However, I think it’s fair to assume that these Coporations haven’t been around for four-thousand years since the exodus of the 13 tribes, right? So it strikes me as a bit odd that these Coporations just HAPPEN to make race called Cylons that are very identical to the ones on Earth.
Now we know that the Caprica, the upcoming BSG spin-off is supposedly going to Chronicle the creations of the Cylons that started the first clyon war. So maybe the final cylons used to be able to resurect (or something to that effect). So maybe Ellen (and Saul/Tyrol/Torrey/Anders) resurected some time before or during the time peroid that Caprica takes place in, and then INFLITRATED the Coporations and manipulated them into creating MORE Cylons in the image of the 13th tribe (possibly as a revenge attack for the destruction of Earth by the humans?) And then somehow lost their memories, and/or died, and were ressurected later on
What I’m trying to say is MAYBE, the reason we haven’t seen any Ellen Tigh character devlopment yet is because we won’t see any in BSG. MAYBE we’re going to see all that stuff in Caprica instead. I personally think that would be rather lame of Ron Moore to end the show like that, however it would be nice to see some fimilar faces from BSG in the spinoff.
I’ve got a feeling i’m wrong about this, cause in Matts interview with Micheal Hogan he mentioned that Kate Vernon was back on set. (So i’m assuming she was back on set for a bit more than just that one flashback). Btw I met Micheal Hogan too at the London Expo a while back
MY facebook photo is me with him lol.
Please give me an alienware? Lol
February 6th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
Rewatching this ep, I predict we will see some opera house action. With Baltar and Roslin together on the baseship (with hybrid!) – with Hera and Sharon and Caprica together in the brig…..I call opera house storyline development!
Off-topic, I want some more T-shirt slogan ideas for BSG.. here are some that I am thinking of making on shirts:
Keep the statue
Frack you
Do your job, Chief
Sometimesyou have to roll the hard six
What do you hear? (on front) Nothing but the rain (on back)
Grab your gun and bring the cat in
There are 13 models (the point being that the T-shirt wearer is the 13th!)
So say we all
I’m not a cylon!
Just swimming in the stream
Weapons free!
MORE PLEASE! THANKS
February 6th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
Tootie: Maybe the shirt should say on the back, “I am the 13th model.” ;D
A shirt showing Pegasus coming in with her guns blazing would be way cool.
In a soon to be released book of mine (”You can’t shave in a minimart bathroom”), I quote the Admiral.
Rule 63: Sometimes you have to roll the hard six.
February 6th, 2009 at 5:13 pm
f-shirt slogans:
somedays I hate this job
…you can spend all night on your knees praying or all night on yor kness.
February 6th, 2009 at 5:45 pm
How about:
Impeach Roslin!
Don’t Blame me, I voted Baltar
I went to Earth and all I get was radiation sickness.
A picture of Athena with a quirky smile holding a burned piece of toast and with inscription: Damn Toaster! Everytime!
February 6th, 2009 at 5:52 pm
Matt & Nat love BSG all the time
I will say though Matt you stole my line!!!
“He and Tigh pwning those two noobs” is a direct quote from a sentence I uttered to my friend on the phone after that episode!
Alright alright isn’t stealing, I’m sure a lot of people said that
But love the BSG cast, love BSG its definitely getting juicy!
February 6th, 2009 at 5:54 pm
Great T-Shirt ideas, Tootie! I personally love the “What Do You Hear/Nothin’ But The Rain”… the front and back is a great idea!
And of course, Keep the Statue is a definitely a winner.
~Matt
February 6th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
Hah! I love the t-shirt ideas!
How about:
1.
Front – Racetrack…
Back – Right Place, Every Time
2.
Front – Mother
Back – Fraker
3. Retcon Means Never Saying You Are Sorry
4. Picture of Starbuck with two guns in hand and bodies on the ground with the words “I can do this all day.”
5. A band/concert like t-shirt that says THE CYLONS on the front and planets with dates and method of destruction on the back.
6.
Front: Love Is a Battlefield
Back: BSG Is Love
7.
Front: Numbers Are Sexy
Back: Picture of the hot cylon chicks
8.
Front: Don’t Save the Planet! (picture of Earth)
Back: It Just Becomes Cylonic (picture of a waste land with bones an old school cylon helmet in the ground)
I am sure others can do better.
February 6th, 2009 at 7:34 pm
Lol.. heres my lame ass idea.
Picture of Tigh with the words – Keep an eye out. cruel I know…
Still believe “You have an amazing abilty for self deception, how do you do it?” should go on one.
February 6th, 2009 at 8:17 pm
killer BSGCAST episode- it is fun to, dare I type, to “Geek Out” WITH you two during your show.
I wish only that during these last episodes- that you could post YOUR episodes (video) much quicker, I
was not a fan of coming to your site and not having a video for the last episode (the oath) but comments only….
though the great BSGCAST ‘oath’ episode is now online…
I have been watching for a year or so and LOVE BSGCAST!!!
February 6th, 2009 at 9:55 pm
“Seeing [Adama] and Tigh rock those noobs…yes!” That is my new favorite quote, hands down. Matt is hilariously brilliant when giddy.
Ok, late on the comment, probably not the most insightful or t-shirt worthy, but here’s some thoughts.
Tigh’s shock at seeing Roslin and Adama together: funniest moment on the show, no doubt.
First off, it’s about time for a coup. Don’t get me wrong, with less than 40,000 humans left, civil war is unbelievably stupid, but definitely justified. Four years of aimless wandering, including over a year of Cylon occupation can make someone pretty angry. Oh, and lets not forget the fact that three of the leaders of the New Caprica Resistance turned out to be Cylons. If I was one of the ex-Resistance members (like Connor), I’d feel betrayed, duped, and angry. And maybe it’s just because I’m a big Ryan Robbins fan, but it’s very, very cool to see Charlie Connor back and a sub-leader of the coup. He’s been one of those characters floating around in the background with strong motivation, and he fits into the plot perfectly. Glad Starbuck didn’t shoot him!
And Nat, I disagree, Gaeta’s not the weak link in the coup, he’s the dangerous wild card. I know I’ll probably be disagreed with, but I think Zarek needs to take power, or at least get listened to. The Roslin-Adama dictatorship (lets face it, that’s what it is), ignored the lower class, focused solely on prophecies, refused to take any other views, and when the legally appointed VP was legally allowed to take power, they stopped it, yet still claim to represent the law. I’m not saying Zarek would be a perfect leader, but he certainly seems more capable to follow the law than the current regime (ooh, always wanted to use “regime” in a post). See, I think Zarek has a plan to fix things. It may not work, but he has a plan. Gaeta is a different story. He’s a believer, an extremist. He follows things almost blindly, with the utmost passion. Right now he’s all about revolution, lofty ideas, and a new vision. But here’s the catch, once the revolution is finished, then comes the tedium of trying to bring about that change. Zarek knows that, Gaeta doesn’t. I suspect that Felix is going to move against Zarek for “going against” the revolution. He’s going to take it too far. And Baltar help us all when he does.
Which actually brings me to my big question for the next episode: Who gets to kill Gaeta? He’s got to go down, but now it’s just a contest of who can get to him first. Will is be Adama, reclaiming the ship? Roslin putting down a coup? Starbuck for revenge on that verbal spar? Hoshi, in a slightly cliche lover killing? Zarek, should my above prophecy turn out true? Baltar, having to put down a wild dog? I actually want to see that one, partially because I don’t like Gaeta, and partially because I love Baltar.
Oh, and here’s something I’m wondering? When’s Helo going to kick butt? I get the feeling that everyone’s going to settle some scores next episode with their respective adversary, but I’m really hoping Helo does a lot of the buttkicking. So, Adama and Roslin are bad, Gaeta’s an extremist, put Helo in charge! He’s already shown to have the wisdom, and non-genocidal tendencies needed to be a leader. Neither Adama or Gaeta possess both of those virtues. He basically knows every position in Galactica by heart, and he’s already been XO.
And on a different note, yay for the Chief! I commented in the last episode how TPTB have been doing all they can to cut the Chief’s ties to humanity (including the ever stupid decylonification (see my last post for my view on why that makes no sense)), yet here he was, still drawn by a duty to help people. Very, very interesting. He finds out he’s a Cylon, so he tries to assimilate and cut his ties to people, but in the end, his need to help people wins out. See, I think that is what BSG tries to hammer home. It is your actions, not your race that defines you. So far the Chief’s actions win out over his race. In the end, I think it’s people’s actions that are going to determine their fate when the show finishes.
And onto my favorite messiah and antichrist….
Kara Thrace is the Harbinger of Death! Was anyone not scared by her reckless slaughter? Ok, I get it, she’s re energized, but that pure excitement from killing is only hammering home my theory that she is a bringer of death. She led them to earth, the civil war started, and now she’s on a killing spree, only adding to the growing death. Aurora the goddess of the dawn, Charon the boatman, Satan the Morning Star(buck), Kara is definitely emulating all of those characteristics. So, while I look forward to the epic shootout on Galactica in the next episode, I’m scared that Kara’s violent nature is going to doom everyone.
And once again Baltar rocks. He has definitely entered a kind of Jesus’s “Father, why have you forsaken me?” phase in his ministry, and his change in appearance definitely echoes that. Gone is the long hair and beard. He has his faith, but he doesn’t know what to do now. Oh, and his skill for self-preservation? Classic! He did a wonderful job matching Roslin’s comments tit-for-tat. And I found his call to Gaeta to definitely be the emotional crux of the episode, as opposed to the Adama-Roslin goodbye. They are the two smartest people in the universe, Gaeta looked up to Baltar, and Baltar did have a bit of a fondness for the guy. Baltar seemed truly sincere in his attempt to get Gaeta to stop the madness (and very “turn the other cheek”ish, more from TPTB to continue the Jesus/Baltar parallels). Remember the end of the New Caprica arc when Gaeta held Baltar at gunpoint? I think we’ll see a reversal of that, somehow. Baltar has the strongest connection to Gaeta out of the main players, and he does owe him for the neck-stabbing.
February 6th, 2009 at 9:56 pm
T-shirt ideas? Only one:
“Razzlefrazzle…..grrr….do your job…..”
With Rudy-as-Adama’s face on the front.
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