BSGcast 4.16 – “Blood on the Scales”
The amazing conslusion of the 2-part Mutiny storyline answered a few questions, but none that Part 1 hadn’t come up with in the first place… which makes us both ask the question: why? Why spend 2 episodes starting and ending a storyline with SO MANY important questions still hanging? We trust in Ron, and we loved this Mutiny storyline and Gaeta’s enormous arc, but we still have to ask why?
February 6th, 2009 at 6:13 pm
Okay Matt & Nat, this is non-spoiler speculation. No research, no spoiler sites, no pics of the script here.
I think both Gaeta and Zarek are going to come to a very bad end in this episode but I also think that there are others who are going to the last round up. Oh, and I DO believe that we may see the final Cylon return. No inside info here, just a hunch. Ron and Dave like to throw shit like this into the mix when we least expect it and no one would expect it right now because everyone is so caught up in the “Viva La Decylonification” movement.
Fold up a piece of paper and stick it in your pocket Matt. We’ll see if I am 2 for 2.
February 6th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
Is it just me, or does Laura’s “I’m coming for you” make you think of Captain Kirk in ST shouting “KAAAHHHNN!!!!” She is like a mama bear pissed off at aggressors and she is not gonna take any prisoners.
February 6th, 2009 at 7:21 pm
Just saw a clip of this episode. Can’t frakkin’ wait!!
I think Zarek kills Gaeta. If not that, Gaeta kills Zarek. Maybe not in Blood on the Scales. But within the next 2-3 episodes.
We’ve already seen how ‘ballz-to-the-wall’ Zarek is, so he’ll take out Gaeta as a thank you for overthrowing Adama (but also for being weak).
Gaeta has crossed the line of no return and when Zarek comes knocking to take his crown, Gaeta is going to go fully cross the dark-side.
Keep The Statue
February 6th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
I just saw the clip on scifi.com. It looks like Adama is able to get out of the airlock – probably with Apollo and Starbuck coming in with guns blazing.
I suspect that Tigh dies, probably saving Adama from being shot.
Baltar is STILL playing the “I know what is best for the fleet” card.
And, yes, Laura’s “I’m comming for all of you!” DOES sound like Kirk’s “KAAAAAHN!”
I know that the episode is playing as i write. I don’t have cable at my apartment – outside my budget. So, I have to wait until I see it either on scifi.com or pick up the video I am recording in my classroom.
February 6th, 2009 at 11:09 pm
I’m not going to lie… I shrieked when Zarek ordered the Forum executed. And gods above I need to invest in a pen. Turns out those things are great for stabbing people in the neck (if you have good aim, eh Gaeta?)
February 6th, 2009 at 11:17 pm
What about Anders?! And was it just me, or in the preview for next week, when Ellen came out of the resurrecting pod the next was a Centurion that looked shocked. Anybody else see that, or was it just me?
February 6th, 2009 at 11:19 pm
WTF?
If you pay attention you see something in this episode:
Tyrol, Anders, and Tighe should all be dead. But they aren’t. Anders shot, Tighe admitting that for a moment he was, and Tyrol in a section of the ship that should have NO AIR. Does this mean that the final five cannot die?
February 6th, 2009 at 11:21 pm
Shauna not that I would recommend such a thing but you/friend could download the episode off Torrents. If you look tomorrow it will be up.
February 6th, 2009 at 11:23 pm
Ellen’s coming back! Now… time to show us why she’s so cool she gets to be the Final Cylon. How about we just skip on through to next Friday? Hm? Sounds good.
Oh yeah… bravo to Madame President Laura Roslin.
February 6th, 2009 at 11:25 pm
Blood on the Scales. I don’t know what to say. Frak that, I know exactly what to say: it was way too easy. Although I was glad to see Geata and Zarek get what they deserved, to me, it felt like a piece of US government propaganda. The good guys will win in the end and the bad guys will be punished. You just don’t put an end to a rebellion in the wink of an eye. I like the outcome (who wouldn’t), but not how it came to be. Not enough blood, not enough sweat, not enough tear, not enough anything. It was like cutting into butter with a hot knife. And Narcho! I was so cheering for Tigh to shoot him. Shame on you Admiral for stopping him.
February 6th, 2009 at 11:29 pm
Ellen was always trouble, she will be more trouble and cavil has been planning and watching
February 6th, 2009 at 11:32 pm
First off, THIS WAS AWESOME! Adama’s got his ship back and he’s done a little bit of clean house.
Second of all, Zarek and the Quorum of 12- After they pretty much told Zarek to stand down, I was like, “YES! Roslin’s getting her presidency back!” But then, after they told him to leave, he tells one of the Marines to “Shoot them.”, I was like, “WHAT?!” And when I heard the screams and shots in the background, I couldn’t help but say, “Frack me… He’s a psychopath!” And then I remembered how he ended up in the Fleet, being on board a prison ship because he blew up a government building, killing lots of innocent people. I had to tell my dad, “Gaeta knew who he was getting in bed with,” when Gaeta showed his reaction to the dead bodies of the Quorum.
Starbuck had her occasional classic moment. Most notable has to be knocking out the guy while he was takin’ a leak. And I also loved the “I didn’t pull the pin” bit between Apollo and Starbuck (both being typical badasses).
I told you guys that Hotdog wasn’t going to shoot down Roslin. As I was right about Gaeta being killed. No way he or Zarek’s coming back from it (TBH, I think it would have been better just to space both of them (would have been perfect symmetry if they did that, because Gaeta came close to being spaced for “collaborating with the Cylons” and the fact that he was getting onto Adama for doing the very thing he did on New Caprica).
Well, I can say, we got to see more of the insides of Galactica than any other episode before it (the last time we saw any of the inner workings outside of the typical hallways, rooms, CIC, etc was in Cally’s last episode). Did anyone else think about John McClane as Tyrol was crawling through the ducts? I couldn’t.
And what is it with Baltar and the Six model? It’s like no matter which Six it is, he keeps knockin’ them boots! I mean, he’s slept Caprica, then Gina, than Caprica again and now… Now this copy that looks like a lot like Natalie (which is impossible since she was killed by Athena). It’s like he and Helo are the only two humans that have a whole line of female Cylons willing to get it on with them (except that Helo’s a one Model Eight man).
Next week- Resurrection of Mrs. Tigh? Cool beans! Now we finally get an answer to the question: How do the Final Five resurrect? And more importantly: When did Ellen download and where the frak is she? And what truth does she know? Man… We’ve got to wait another week… Again. At least the wait won’t be as intense like last week.
BTW- For those who didn’t get any of the 3 original BSG novels, “Battlestar Galactica: Trilogy” has been released. I don’t know how long its been out, but it has all 3 original novels (”The Cylon Secret”, “Sagittarius is Bleeding” and “Unity”) in one collection. I give this heads up for those who didn’t get those novels before (and for those that may need something to kill some time between the end of the show and the release of “The Plan”).
February 6th, 2009 at 11:39 pm
baltar is not a human like the rest, he and starbuck are different, I don’t know what they are but they both survived the unsurviveable an came back intact
February 6th, 2009 at 11:44 pm
Wow. I was not expecting to see that wrapped up in one episode. Unexpected, but still a great episode. After a weak first half of the season, BSG is definitely picking up the pace and cranking the awesome level up.
The Chief getting his Die Hard on was awesome! If there is one person who knows Galactica more than Adama, it’s the Chief, and boy did he literally pull the plug on Gaeta’s plans. Forget Roslin, forget Adama, Tyrol saved the day. Nice! I’ve been commenting on how Tyrol’s sense of duty has been overcoming his attempt to cut all his ties to humanity, and here was the proof. Loved his conversation with that one guy (I never caught his name). I guess sometimes the situation is so frakked up, what can you do but laugh? That scene just struck me as a cathartic release for the Chief, and that guy. Face to face, you can really see the person. The guy realized Tyrol was just as screwed as everyone else. Perfectly done. And then the ending. And did anyone get his last scene? What, there’s a tear in the ship? Atmo’s leaking? Why would the FTL be so far from the center of the ship, so exposed? Did I miss something?
Oh, and Lampkin pulled a Gaeta! Nameless Marine guy, you went down, courtesy of a kleptomaniac’s stolen pen! Nice. Lampkin was my favorite new character, and I make no qualms saying his last episode was terrible, and nearly ruined Romo in my eyes. Excellent job on TPTB for fixing that. Sardonic, exasperated, smarter-than-everyone-else-and-knows-it; man, Mark Sheppard nailed it. I just love Lampkin’s whole attitude. He knows how pointless the civil war and the court martial are, and he points it out. Everyone is getting all caught up with ideology, passion, and blind faith, and here’s a guy who’s sitting back watching it all, shaking his head. That said, I was a bit surprised to see Romo stuck around to help Sam. I mean, if it was any other character, they’d stay, no hesitation. But Romo, you never know. Speaking of that….
….what happened with Sam? Where was the conclusion? Did he get to Cottle on time? Jeez, that’s a cliffhanger! I mean, I get that he’s a Final Five Cylon, so he’s probably safe, but they made such a big deal about his injury, and then they don’t show what happened to him. Give us something, a shred of dialogue or a quick image of the sickbay. I’ve got a bit more to say on the lack of wrapping things up, but first….
…Adama reclaiming the ship. Did anyone else find the shot of Adama marching down the hallway to the bridge simply epic? Flanked by his son and strongest supporters, then a full military guard, and then they just started picking up people along the way. Very, very cool bit of staging and cinematography.
And you know what, Baltar had the most interesting story. Adama may have had the face time, Tyrol may have saved the day, but if anyone had the biggest character development, it was Gaius. “Fanclub”! Hah, brilliant. But then again, he had an epiphany. And does every Number 6 have a “please Baltar” code programmed in them? This is the turning point for Baltar. No more running, no more dodging responsibility. For the past 3 and a half seasons, we’ve seen Baltar’s genius and skills put to self-preservation. Now it looks like we’ll see him apply it to helping others. I cannot wait to see how he goes about doing this. It looks like he will no longer be simply living his life as the messiah of his “fanclub,” he’s embracing his destiny as “the Chosen One.”
Zarek and Gaeta. I was not surprised by their fate, but seriously, did anyone else think “Man, Zarek is smart”? Sure, he led the coup, killed some people, etc, but that guy was smart. When Gaeta froze, he had a plan that actually seemed strategically logical. And we never even got a chance to see him in office. I would have liked to see how he handled things. And “Commander” Gaeta, oh am I glad he bit it. Overzealous, naive, and froze when people counted on him. I found the firing squad scene particularly insightful. Zarek wasn’t panicking, begging, or screaming. He simply smiled and took it like a man. I’m taking that as confirmation that he actually believed in what he was doing and it wasn’t simply a powerplay. The man definitely took responsibility for his actions.
So, I guess the big question is, what happens now? I mean, the coup is over, but there was extremely little resolution. What happened to Sam? Did he live? Will Gage ever get his comeuppance from Helo? Did Connor survive? Did everyone just give up and go back to the way things were? You can’t have half the fleet just rise up one episode, then in the next have everything go back to normal. Half the fleet was firmly with Zarek. Half of the crew of Galactica willingly revolted. The brig is not that big. How are they going to deal with the Cylon alliance? The next episode had better be aftermath/resolution heavy. Let’s not hit the reset button just yet.
Oh, and so the Quarum is dead, and the VP spot is open. Well, I guess Lee’s job (for now) will be VP. And with the Quarum gone, will Roslin be unchecked? I know I say she’s a dictator a lot, but well, look at how she’s acted. I’m not saying the Quarum was competent, but they did at least present a legal boundary for Roslin to stop her from doing whatever she pleased. Will we get a new Quarum? Is Roslin now the sole voice of the government? And Baltar was right. Lee’s most likely the new VP, and it looks like we’ll never see anyone who isn’t named Roslin or Adama in charge.
February 6th, 2009 at 11:57 pm
There won’t be much time for more than a quick clean up, maybe martial law, whatever, immediate damage control until cavil’s back and the intensity starts again, government won’t mean anything until it’s over and there is a new settlement somewhere.
February 6th, 2009 at 11:59 pm
@Nick, the new Quorum shall be comprises of the heads of the Cylon that are on team Adama/Roslin. I mean all of them at the same table with Centurians standing behind them with Roslin giving orders? Can you just imagine it?
I’m sad that there’s only 6 more weeks then it is all over. Hopefully Caprica will be as good as they can make it. If there’s no space battles in the first five episodes then I’m out. LOL
The preview for next week that showed Ellen resurrected obviously took place before the Central Hub was destroyed but since they’re machines maybe they made more than one Central Hub. That is unless where Ellen woke up isn’t the normal places that the current 7 models go to get resurrected unless that is the Final Five resurrection hub…huh? huh? We could see a whole new fleet of Cylons out there.
February 7th, 2009 at 12:58 am
I love nick’s comment about tyrol’s die hard moment, that was crazy cool. Also, I wanted to add, how does everyone think Ellen will react to the fact that her husband (Tigh), is having a kid with Caprica 6. I would think she would be pretty pissed, I see a potential for a cat fight. LOL
Also, dang it what is Gaeta’s secret?…that he is looney tunes;)…what did Gaius mean I know who you are? I thought they were finally going to wrap up that loose end. I still want the answer and I want it now!
February 7th, 2009 at 1:11 am
Great Episode – For me the last 2 are the best BSG episodes in a long while. I am a bit puzzled tho, what were Baltar and Gaeta talking about in the cell in the last scene? Who does Baltar think Gaeta is? If we stay on a religious theme, Judas maybe? And what does Gaeta mean on his very last line “It Stopped?” Was that Baltar healing his pain? Makes you wonder what powers Baltar has, can he resurrect the dead?
The end just left me with too many questions that Im not quite sure what the answers are.
Great Website -
February 7th, 2009 at 1:28 am
OMG! I had to write something tonight, that was out of control awesome! The previews for next week?! I think that I finally know the purpose of the FF, just from Ellen’s words in the preview: I think they are meant to guard humanity from itself, and when they are discovered, humanity is on its’ own. Thus they were actually the guardians of humanity, just in a different way. Just an idea–I still don’t get how cylons existed before humans built them—that gets me.
Also, I didn’t get that part of how Tyrol was in a part of the ship w/no air, is that why he was acting so strangely after he pulled the piece out? How did he know to do that? Was that why they showed that crack, and that’s how he knew there was no air? I thought maybe it meant the ship was actually falling apart, but maybe not, thoughts?
Oh, and before I leave, I have to say bravo to Richard Hatch for showing that Zarek a) did feel conflicted at times, b) sees no other way to resolve things unless he kills the opposition. The looks on his face were brilliant, brilliant showing how he knew they had lost even before Adama was to die. I have agreed w/Zarek so many times, but this time, he got too greedy. and acted irrationally. He lost it, but the weaker he became the more violent he became, and more dangerous. So much w/for the people, right? Sadly, I think Gaeta might have succeeded w/out Zarek; or had a greater chance of enforcing some kind of change. That last look between Zarek and Gaeta: Zarek’s was like “Oh well, i knew this is how it would end for me, but hey I tried”, and Gaeta–was like whatever, I’m finished.
Finally, I must say that I was right in that itchy, dirty, wretched looking stump of poor Gaeta, stopped itching right before he died. Why? He was finally free and at peace. We saw it in the amazement in his voice when he said–”It stopped”. It was a suicide train all along for him, and I think Baltar knew it, and I think in the end, so did Adama. Lee’s face was never pity of Gaeta, it was a mix of disappointment/pity and the inability to understand the complexity if Zarek in the end. Who truly was his mirror so many times–
okay be back for more detailed thoughts later! That was amazing!
A
February 7th, 2009 at 1:37 am
sorry to double post, but I forgot:
Gaeta’s secret is that he had many prominent figures and their families murdered on NC. He did not know it at the time, as he was manipulated by an 8 who he believed was helping him SAVE them. He found this out in the webisodes. Baltar said this to him during his trial and Gaeta was so horrified that he stabbed in the neck w/a pen. This realization was the final straw for him, and what led him to his desire to redeem himself w/mutiny. Gaeta felt betrayed by Baltar, and was in disbelief that he could have actually been helping the cylons, and helping the rebellion, but was being manipulated at the same time. It was a horrible moment, and he stabbed the 8 in the neck just for old times sake, as that’s what he did to Baltar when he first found out. Except this time he killed her.
Gaeta worshipped Baltar in the beginning, go back to “Unfinished Business” to see what I mean. Baltar did know Gaeta best, and was having a final drink w/him, to get to know him, so to speak. He knew, and was recognizing to and for Gaeta that Gaeta was a good man. A good man. who was another victim of the attacks. It took this long, but thats what it boiled down to in the end.
A
February 7th, 2009 at 2:29 am
Wow! What a roller coaster story arc this has been, and what a satisfying ending. Of course, we still have plenty of questions left to be answered (this is BSG after all, and I would expect nothing less
). But the Adama/Roslin team prevailed, and all because they stayed true to their principles. This story arc really allowed us to see what these characters are made of, and what kinds of choices they will make when the chips are down. I’ve said it before and will say it again… that’s why I love this show.
Some points of note:
Poor Anders, I hope he makes it. If he doesn’t, then hopefully he will be able to resurrect in the Secret Ellen Tigh Resurrection Room. If such a thing exists, of course…
Racetrack — that saucy little turncoat! Laughing it up with Tom Zarek in the hangar deck like she’s his groupie or something. I’ve lost all respect for her character, really. Of course, Kara and Lee saw the whole thing… it will be interesting to see what happens to the remaining conspirators now that the Old Man’s back in charge.
Baltar and “Angelic Six”. I couldn’t help but notice that Baltar seemed a little surpised to see her. Was she a new version of Head Six or just another six? Also, I liked the scene of Baltar’s self-examination and guilt.
Starbuck — head-bash at the urinal. Awesome.
Zarek showed his true colors. I cheered when he got smacked-down by his own quorum, but just as he reached the doorway I thought, “hmmm… I wonder if the marines are waiting out there?”. And shockingly, horrificly, they were. Because the quorum voting down Tom Zarek just seemed too easy. That was a truly chilling scene, and proof that what you don’t see on screen is scarier than what you do see. It’s quite ironic that the “Will-of-the-People Freedom Fighter” himself, who railed against the “dictatorship” of the Roslin administration, was the one who tried to destroy democracy. It just goes to show you that he was out for himself all along, and was not above lying and manipulating to get his way. Him lying to Roslin about the “execution” of Adama, and lying about the “death” of Tigh was proof of that.
Tyrol — for a moment, I thought he was going to “pull a Spock” (a la the ending of Wrath of Khan) when he sabotaged the FTL. Thankfully he didn’t, because I like Tyrol. His character has come a long way since the beginning of 4.0. Also, I couldn’t help but be reminded of The Shawshank Redemption when he was crawling through the duct. Hmmm…. I wonder if there’s a deleted scene of Gaeta looking at a crocheted sign in CIC that says “His judgement cometh, and that right soon”?
Galactica — when Tyrol looked up in the hangar deck, he saw the cracks in the hull. I’m guessing this is going to be the next story arc, Galactica’s ticking clock (let’s also not forget the “clue” from the BSG website of Adama seeing a crack in the washroom bulkhead). Will the ship be sacrificed in one last great, Pegasus-like blazing ball of glory when Cavil’s basestars arrive?
Lee — now that the other 11 quorum members are dead, and Zarek’s out of the picture, it looks as though he may very well become Vice President. And later, President, presumably.
Gaeta — what can I say? There was indeed a reckoning. That last scene was interesting though, when he was talking to Baltar. “I just want people to know… who I really am”. That scene was obviously used as a red herring on the BSG website before the 4.5 premiere, trying to get people to think Gaeta was the final cylon. But now I wonder… what does that line really mean? Was Gaeta simply making a confession to Baltar, trying to absolve himself of his sins? Was Gaeta really saying, “I just want people to know I’m really not such a bad guy, I just got caught up on the wrong side and lost myself”?
“I know who you are Felix”…
There was that strange, otherworldly feel when the scene transitioned to the execution, and then that knowing exchange of looks between Zarek and Gaeta. Were they simply just having a zen-like moment, at peace with their impending deaths? Or do they know something we don’t… are they Lords of Kobol? Was the mutiny part of some devine plan?
Perhaps a cigar is just a cigar here. Anyway, I can’t wait for next week’s episode! Ellen is back, and she’s (maybe) got some answers about the true nature of the FF. And if the preview is to be believed, the FF do (or at least did) download and resurrect in goo-baths. Assuming Ellen’s resurrection happened before the S7’s hub was blown up, then one can only speculate on whether or not the FF have their own hub…
Oh well, I guess it’s going to be another long week ahead!
February 7th, 2009 at 2:30 am
this episode was amazing. The thing about revolution is that you have a very short time to end it. After that it takes years, so this was the most believable way the writers could have gotten it done without spending the rest of the season in a state of human civil war.
I had a couple thoughts about the whole Ellen thing. I believe she is responsible for the resurrection of the 5. However, I believe it was only supposed to be her and Tigh, and the bombs caused something to go astray.
The other 3 just happened to get sucked in due to proximity since nothing in the episodes showed any other connection between all 5. I think the 5 really are human with memories of a past life. Seeing the resurrection of Ellen on the “normal” cylon ship kinda dispells this, but we’ll see what really happens.
Perhaps over the years, the humans that were part of the Cylon exodus (oh cmon there had to be some in there) worked with the cylons and found a way to merge their DNA so as to become one race on the planet instead of two.
The real question about Ellen’s resurrection is why didnt she come back right away, and where exactly is she popping up? Is she popping up on Cavil’s ship or the rebels’ ship?
In the end though, I believe the cylons and humans will discover that their origins are actually the same as is their ending. Two races who evolved side by side that eventually rejoin each other to become one race again.
February 7th, 2009 at 2:59 am
finally after 6 years i get to see what i have always wanted to see the most.
not adama being shot, not roslin dying, not starbuck and lee getting it on, i finally got to see the colonial ftl drive. and ooh boy, was it beautiful. ooh and the mutiny wasn’t too shavy either.
now i’m off to buy some pens, apparently the pen is mightier than the sword. lords of kobol, hear my prayer, please spare the pen factory ship, we need you! ill leave you with some links to the pics of the drives, in case you don’t have a available copy of the episode to re watch.
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z43/ndskadsen/battlestar/ftl1.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z43/ndskadsen/battlestar/ftl2.jpg
February 7th, 2009 at 3:36 am
The Final Four made a big deal of Gaeta’s singing, and the music, so it was interesting that the music stopped right before Gaeta died and he noticed. It’s like one of those weird moments where a character in a movie notices the narrator speaking. I don’t think that means he’s a cylon. I think it means he had a gift, and he squandered it. When he was speaking with Baltar especially it was a painful reminder that he had so much potential, and he allowed himself to be used by a scumbag by Zarek and by his own pettiness. I don’t feel in the slightest bit sad for him – but the last bit reminded me that once upon a time there was Felix Gaeta I actually liked. It made me feel a little like Baltar must have felt, sad that it came to this so unnecessarily. But knowing he got what he deserved.
And after last week I was a little worried they were hinting Baltar had been a complete fraud all season 4.0. So I was pleased as could be that wanting-to-do-the-right-thing Baltar was back this episode. I think he felt, in possibly a big way, responsible for the way Gaeta turned out. Felix used to hero-worship him, and it all ended so badly. I can see how he might have become disillusioned with Adama as well.
This is about ten episodes or so since the last appearance of Head Six. Baltar’s been his own man for quite a while now, doing the right thing because its what he wants to do without any guidance. And when he screwed up last episode and ran, he didn’t need anyone to tell him so. He realized it on his own and set about to fix it. He’s taken the opposite path Gaeta did – overcoming his demons instead of falling victim to them. I like Baltar when he’s selfish, but I like him even more when he’s noble. He’s one of the most interesting and uniquely conflicted characters I’ve ever seen on a tv show.
February 7th, 2009 at 4:17 am
I gotta say, I’m the biggest Xena fan EVER but Laura Roslyn’s war cry was probably one of the best I’ve ever heard. Wow!
I really liked that 6 baltar slept with. She’s was like some kind of fairey or elf you’d see in the woods bringing you some kind of magical gift. She looked really new and innocent as well like she had just been resurrected yesterday.
And how Zarek can still think he’s some kind of revolutionary is beyond me. He must know that he’s truley become a criminal, not a hero. Executing the quorum was just murder and nothing more. Something tells me Geata is really regretting what he’s doing now but knows he’s in too deep.
February 7th, 2009 at 4:29 am
I loved loved Lampkin’s line, “I don’t suppose anyone’s going to feed my dog”. Remember, this coming from a man who carried a dead cat around for weeks. I wonder if that we’re seeing that, maybe, he might feel that he has something to live for?
And regarding qualms about the revolution’s-resolution ending so quickly: I don’t think we’ve seen the last of it by a long shot.
To be fair, despite Adama’s return to command, I can’t help but feel strongly that this was the final straw that will break everything. The crew can never be whole again; Starbuck killed several Marines and shot skulls, Helo is still unconscious, possibly brain-dead, ditto for Anders, the deck chief was murdered in cold blood, and the list of offenses goes on. There’s no way in hell that these people are going to be able to sit down for a friendly triad game again, ever. There is an irreparable schism through not only the crew, but the entire fleet, and it seems to be symbolically manifesting itself via the massive crack that Tyrol saw in the engine room, and [spoiler, unless you've seen the clip at http://www.youwillknowthetruth.com the crack that Adama also sees in his quarters.[/spoiler]
Both the ship and her crew are fraktured beyond repair, and I think that the rest of the series will undoubtedly show us both the metaphorical and physical schisms separating completely. This seems to be the underlying theme to Season 4, if not the entire show itself.
And Baltar! As others have already mentioned, I think that this is the final transformation of his character. At last, he feels for something other than himself. He has yet another beautiful naked Six in front of him, practically begging to grant him sex and safety, and he turns it down to return to the people he left behind. Very noble for a man who once tried talking a girl into suicide to cover his own ass…
February 7th, 2009 at 4:40 am
Okay, after waiting until midnight because of a birthday party I finally watched and HOLY SHEEP SHIT BATMAN!!!
I loved how it ended though. The Hatch went out with a bang and took Gaeta with him (told you they would come to a bad end) and I LOVED watching Adama marching on CIC with more and more people gathering behind him as he went. I also loved how Cpt. Kelly chose the right side in the end. I always hoped he would find redemption and he did!
The deathj of the Quorum: Sucks that they grew balls right before Zarek had the drive by pulled on them.
Zarek: Man, I have to give it to the Hatch! From the time we saw him in “Bastille Day” until tonight, he has played Tom Zarek perfectly! Zarek went out like he should have. Ron Moore wrote it well and Richard played it wonderfully! I am sad to see such an icon of BSG leave the show but WOW! What a way to go!
I have to give it to Gaeta: He went out with his head held high. I give him MAD PROPS for that!
The Tyrol “Die Hard” moment: Frakking classic! (Especially that quip about Cally being ‘bad news’)
Sam taking one to the back: Maybe he’ll stop his whining now!
Kara showing some compassion for him: About frakking time she woke the hell up!
Roslin and her “I’m coming for all of you!”… .WAY over done. I have always feared the man who spoke his threats quietly rather than the one who yells. You always know that the quiet ones are serious. (For a perfect example of this, see “Gran Torino” with Clint Eastwood.)
Romo Lampkin: Hell yeah! I loved how he came down on Adamas’ side! One thing about Romo- he always knows what is right and true, even if he isn’t fond of it. He even helped Kara with Sam and you KNOW he didn’t want to. And the pen in the neck (again)…. wonderful. It truly IS mightier than the sword!
Finally: Admiral MUTHA FRAKKIN Adama!!!! He has proved once and for all that he is THE MAN!
Now, as for my prediction about Ellen…. Well I guess you can say I was right or wrong. The previews aren’t exactly part of the episode but I was right in that we did see her come back. I can’t wait to watch next week because I have a feeling she is going to answer a LOT of questions about the Final Five and even the Sig Seven.
Final note: PLEASE refer to my “Cylon War Explanation” in the previous comments section. I am hoping I am right on this one but we will see next week I think.
And to close (since Gaeta and Zarek are dead),
VIVA LA CYLONIFICATION!!!!!
February 7th, 2009 at 5:25 am
Well, once again Ron has proven to me I am right to Love (Hate?) this show so frakking much!
The Mutiny- was too nicely giftwrapped with bow for me, though it ended the way I wanted with Gaeta shot, I was sad to see the Hatch go too. We need a good human enemy left in the series, now it is just Human vs Cylon. This rebellion needed to last a few more episodes, it just ended too easy.
The Military Dictatorship- Now we have marshal law directed by the two figureheads of Rosilyn and Adama, no one will challenge them now. The people no longer have any representatives.
Cylon Skinjobs survive without air- Tyrol lives with a hull breach!
Starbuck- now the badass bit@h with the heart of gold. Still loves Sam, the guy only has to get shot for her to realize it.
Romo- So happy to see him again, and he has always had the Adama’s back even though he hates himself for it. And who is gonna feed his frakking dog!?
Admiral Adama once again shows us why it is he runs this fleet! he was true to his word, no mercy, there was a reckoning and the consequeces were final.
Next week- the return of Ellen, finally, For all of us who don’t understand why of all choices they picked her to be the fifth. To Ron we say “Lucy, you have some splaining to do!!!!!”
February 7th, 2009 at 5:28 am
BEST TV MOMENT EVER!!!!!!!!
February 7th, 2009 at 5:48 am
I guess Romo and Baltar have to get on the quorum.
Rosolin needs Baltar because he got religious control in the fleet.
February 7th, 2009 at 6:22 am
Ryan Keeton – “Zarek went out like he should have. Ron Moore wrote it well and Richard played it wonderfully! I am sad to see such an icon of BSG leave the show but WOW! What a way to go!”
“I have to give it to Gaeta: He went out with his head held high. I give him MAD PROPS for that!” Did I miss something?? Zarek and Gaeta are dead? Do I need to re watch the episode?
“The Tyrol “Die Hard” moment: Frakking classic! (Especially that quip about Cally being ‘bad news’)” What an awesome description! That is soo cool. But now that I think about it… why the hell was he crawling through the air ducts. Just to get to the weapons locker? It’s like he spent the whole episode there with no real reason.
“Sam taking one to the back: Maybe he’ll stop his whining now!” I never really noticed him whine.
“Kara showing some compassion for him: About frakking time she woke the hell up!” Haha I’m glad too but I don’t think she cares as much about him as she does Lee
“Roslin and her “I’m coming for all of you!”… .WAY over done.” No way! That was my favorite part. Roslin always does the quiet threats, its about time she got loud.
February 7th, 2009 at 6:37 am
Wow.
Rollercoaster episode.
First JOY: the Quorum guy called Zarek “Vice” President
Then PAIN: about 10 seconds later they got killed.
Big shock.
Apollo & Starbuck – best fighting team ever.
Adama taking back his ship- a little bit too easy?
Speculation for next week – Maybe only Zarek is dead. We saw them opening fire. We didn’t see them really die.
so maybe the spared Gaetas life.
Can’t wait for next week.
February 7th, 2009 at 6:52 am
So the cull of minor characters continues, this week we get rid of The Quorum, Gaeta and Zarek as well as numerous nameless marines.
It also seems like Baltar is starting to get a backbone, so he will probably die in the final episode due to staying in a situation where he would normally run
I am not sure of the cracks that Tyrol sees meaning there is no air in that section, as from the side on angle it looks like there is a thick bulkhead between that area and space, there is also steam rising straight up from the jump engines where if there was a hull breach you would expect it to be drawn towards there.
If they wanted to show that there was no air in that section then they should have made a bigger gap with stars clearly visible as it is I am unconvinced that there was no air in the section but am thinking instead Tyrol saw something from an engineering standpoint that made him worry about the future of Galactica.
Next week seems like an exposition episode with Ellens return AND Anders apparantly remembering everything according to the Space promo on Youtube.
February 7th, 2009 at 7:07 am
So that’s what an FTL drive looks like…
While I was despairing at the use of a jeffries tube it was more than made up for by Tyrol literally ripping an engine apart with his bare hands, excellent stuff. Although, what was with the huge gashes he found in the wall afterwards? Didn’t really see the point of showing them in such detail.
February 7th, 2009 at 7:49 am
Great episode. Preliminarily, all I have to say is “The Pen is Mightier Indeed!” Thank you Romo Lampkin!
February 7th, 2009 at 8:02 am
OMG Ryan sorry oops! For some reason I thought Roslyn’s war cry was the end of the episode and turned it off. LOL Good thing I recorded it and got to see the end where they were executed LOL WTF haha
February 7th, 2009 at 8:59 am
I loved the episode. Not as good as last week’s but it had a few moments that were better. The thing that made it not as good was that march to the CIC. That was really cheesy. Why wouldn’t they be running to it? Plus, the growing group of people joining them… just felt like a bad high school musical. Thankfully, that was the only terrible moment. Everything else seemed to work well.
I loved seeing Lee jump into a tough-guy role on the way to save his father. I especially liked seeing Starbuck react to her husband being shot and refusing to leave him. Roslin’s anger at hearing Adam was dead, was… perhaps a little melodramatic, but I think that is how Roslin would have reacted. The execution of the Quorum… Romo and his pen pal… Baltar beginning to realize how selfish he has been… Chief ending the rebellion with a crawl and his bare hands… Gaeta and Baltar talking… Gaeta’s final words… loved it.
February 7th, 2009 at 9:05 am
Jinx:
It wasn’t the music that Gaeta was referring to when he said, “It stopped.” It was the itching and/or pain in his leg. You’ll notice he looked right at his stump before he said it.
February 7th, 2009 at 9:08 am
Oh, and dealing with what Tyrol saw… I doubt very much that they are saying the Final 5 cannot die. We know one of them is dead. So, how could the other four be unkillable? I just don’t think that is what they are getting at. I have no clue what the cracks mean, though. Perhaps the Galactica is starting to come apart and they will need to find a planet soon.
Anders needed to get shot in the neck so they could explain away Trucco’s scar (since it is pretty huge and ugly). I think he will be fine in the next episode.
Tigh’s statement that he had been dead… I think that was meant as a metaphor… that without the Galactica and Adama he feels dead inside.
February 7th, 2009 at 9:26 am
My thoughts on Tyrol in this episode:
The jump drive is not likely to be close to the outside of the ship. It is likely in the very bowels of the ship. Thus, what he saw was not a hull breach, and I’m sure there was air where Tyrol was. If you watch the hints on youwillknowthetruth.com, one of the scenes that hasn’t happened yet is that Adama, while brushing his teeth in his quarters, notices a similar crack in the wall above his bathroom door. He has air. He looks very concerned. I think what is happening here is that old Galactica is finally falling/being ripped apart due to metal fatigue or whatever, not just hullbreaches, but the cracks showing up in the interior of the ship. I’m sure actual hull breaches are to follow. The ship will probably not survive the last battle it is in.
Did some people think that there shouldn’t be air there for another reason? Why wouldn’t there be air in the jump drive housing? I’m sure mechanics have to get in there from time to time. Why make it a vaccum?
I thought it was frackin’ awesome that he was crawling around “Jeffries Tubes” that were full of dust and rat shit and weren’t all nicely lit up with white light and that he could barely fit through. I thought he was going to have to grease himself up like Caretaker Willie in the Springfield Elementary air duct system. It fit nicely with the jump drives that were big old nasty scary grinding mechanical gears and not a glowy antimatter warp core. The crawl spaces were a nice nod to the differences between Battlestar and Startrek.
February 7th, 2009 at 10:00 am
great episode. felt bad for gaeta…seemed like nothing ever worked out for him and he finally went over the edge. zarek had it comin’, although I too am curious what will happen to the others who aided gaeta in taking over the ship (like narcho, racetrack, etc). and what was up with the premonition that baltar had while getting his shag on? can’t wait til next week’s ep
February 7th, 2009 at 10:28 am
At the end, did Baltar and Gaeta really talk together, or was it Head Baltar he was talking to? The place they were talking looked awfully comfy and unguarded for an environment of puinishment, which lead me to believe it was in his head. Not to mention the cryptic talk from the Baltar about knowing who exactly Gaeta is and Gaeta feeling at peace for a few milliseconds right after the discussion (”It Stopped”). It might not make sense as to why a Head would show up for Gaeta now and not at anywhere else in the story, but this was Gaeta’s final moments and if it was one of the Head Characters, then it sorta resonates as the grim reaper, coming for him at the hour of his death. I dunno, maybe its the lack of sleep getting to me. But overall, a brilliant episode
February 7th, 2009 at 10:38 am
TheOnes:
its comfy because people on death row get a last meal, a preast and so on, so why not Gaeta
February 7th, 2009 at 10:43 am
I took gaeta and baltar’s conversation as a sort of religious council (minus the religion), because gaeta always looked up to and wanted to be like baltar. I wasn’t too fussed about their comfortable surrounding, after all, where’s gaeta gonna go? the comment gaeta made to baltar about people knowing who he really is, I think it was meant as a statement of his character; I don’t think he wanted to be remembered as a traitor, but rather a loyal member of the fleet who tried his best to do his duty. a tragic ending for sure.
February 7th, 2009 at 10:50 am
Overall, I was very much impressed with this episode. Let’s start off with what I liked / what caught me off guard..
Zarek ordering the murder of the Quorum came out of nowhere and definitely had me silent for a while. Very brutal stuff.. Anders getting shot was interesting as well. I like how it wasn’t one of those ‘jumping in front of someone and get shot’ moments, but more like a ‘bad luck to have been standing there’ hit.. Seeing Aaron Kelly come back to join the ‘good guys’ was nice. His moment with Tyrol was awesome! Let’s hope he gets to stick around to act as Gaeta’s replacement for the final episodes.. Seeing Galactica’s crawlspaces and engines were also a few geek-hurray moments for me. It looked wonderfully mysterious and mechanical; very nasty places, as they should be..
As for the things I didn’t like; I hated the fact that Adama’s firing squad was disarmed off-screen by a much smaller group. That could’ve been a very tense moment, but instead it was skipped. I also didn’t like Mary McDonnell. Period. I don’t know what it is, but for some reason she just didn’t sit well with me this episode. Her frantic screaming into the microphone to get in touch with anyone and her subsequent rage filled shout to Zarek and Gaeta, just didn’t do it.. One thing I will grant her; the reunion between Roslin and Adama was touching. Other than that; awful.. Lastly, I agree with DarthRazorBack; the whole ‘march towards CIC’ felt a lot like a bad high school musical. I get that it was a dramatic moment, but it just felt fake and unnecessary to me..
I wonder where the show is going to go from here.. The mutiny was begun and now seems to be done with, the Quorum is no longer around to provide political tension and there’s nothing stopping Adama and Roslin from leading the humans into a human-Cylon alliance. I wonder how they’re going to fill up the last 8 episodes..
February 7th, 2009 at 11:06 am
jumping ahead here, i’m curious about Ellen’s resurrection in the next episode. the sneak peek shows her in a tub of goo, which i’ll assume is on board one of Cavil’s ships. so, this means Cavil already knew she was one of the final five and more importantly, this means there is a hub containing many copies we don’t know about. unless Cavil has some super secret facility where the final five copies are kept on one of the baseships. if that’s the case, why don’t the other cylons know about it and why the secrecy? guess we’ll find out soon enough
February 7th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
Hello all!
Wow great episode! I am very sad about Gaeta. Yes, he went up against the old man, but still was kinda sad to see him go. He’s been my favorite secondary character since season 1. Not too sad about Zarek. He’s had a bullet waiting for him since Bastille Day.
One question that has been haunting me since last night: What was that black box thing Leoben shows Roslin after she addresses Galactica. The way he shows it to her makes it seem we’ve seen it before and I just can’t put my finger on it.
I was talking to some friends after the showing and was saying wouldn’t it be funny if the Galactica just start to fully break down. What if the next jump would tear the ship apart, so Adama decides to move his flagship to the basestar. Cylons would be the primary defense for the colonials now. That would be hilarious.
February 7th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
Well we know Ellen probably doesn’t wake up anywhere using earth-based technology because of the modern centruion. That means that bodies for the final five are on a modern baseship or resurrection hub. So some of the seven or the centurians have to have seen the final five who are obviously different from the seven they know. Unless the final five bodies are in some secret area of the basestar or the cylons are programmed to not remember that they saw them. If Ellen has been on a basestar for the last 18 months, what has she been doing? Is she behind the scenes telling Cavil what to do? Or is she being held prisoner by Cavil?
Maybe she’s taken control of the cylon fleet and we’ll hear Cavil say “by your command” to her. We haven’t heard that line since the mini and it didn’t really make sense to me then since all the cylons were supposed to be equal. Maybe she’s been in control the whole time since she was missing during the attack. I hope they explain where she was during the attack and how she got back to the fleet. And if baltar knew if she was a cylon or not.
On this episode: Seeing Kelly was good continuity, I was just wondering where he’s been since they have not shown him since he tried to blow up the raptor. These last two episode brought back several players from past episodes which I love about the show. There is only so many people left so it makes sense that you would see the same people again and again. I would have like the rebellion to go on a little longer, it wrapped up a little too neat and there were more aspects of the rebellion that I would have like to see but there are only so many more episodes left.
February 7th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
it looks like Ellen take the hybrids tub to be ressurected, or she got ressurected before they nuked the hub and she and Boomer finds the fleet.
sorry for the spellng
February 7th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
To those complaining that the mutiny was quashed too easily, there were clues in the episode and in The Oath that the mutineers didn’t have complete control of Galactica. Lampkin said he and his guard were shot at twice, and there were people in the corridor when… Starbuck and Lee went by I think, I can’t remember just now, but whoever it was the people just watched and didn’t do anything. In The Oath we saw a lot of fighting going on, and this episode is only a few hours afterwards. Bear in mind that a Battlestar is a big place, and I think designed to repel boarders, so it wouldn’t be easy to take out the loyalists, especially when they know the ship as well as the mutineers. I also liked that Adama’s following grew as he went to the CIC, it showed that after 4+ years he still has plenty of support. After all, the leaders of mutiny are a convicted terrorist and a man who narrowly avoided execution for (unwitting) collaboration with the Cylons. I was also glad that Captain Kelly rejoined the loyalists, he may be a Cylon hater but he still remembers how things were back in the Miniseries. Unlike a certain Gaeta…
I was a little disappointed that we didn’t get to see any interaction between Hoshi and Gaeta, but I understand since they had a lot to get through. I was also hoping for some righteous asskicking of Connor, Gage and co. from Helo or Starbuck or someone, I hope they don’t just wash over that. There’s got to still be a lot of resentment burning on both sides. I’m not sure about Racetrack… She was talking and laughing with Zarek but she was always my favourite pilot after Kat…
Speaking of Zarek, it was nice to see the Quorum standing up to him for a change, but I knew as soon as they told him to get lost that they were dead. He is not a forgiving man, after all. I wonder if know a new Quorum is needed, and since they gave refuge to the President in a time of need and were key in returning control of Galactica to Adama, whether the Cylons will be given a seat. It would be only fair I think, but whether the Fleet would accept it is another thing. Also, did Gaeta say the Fleet was only 35 ships? I know some where lost when Gina blew up Cloud Nine, and then on New Caprica and during the Passage, but I don’t make that 40 ships lost.
Ellen’s resurrection next week: Her tub doesn’t seem to be on a Ressurection ship at least, since it’s in a small room by itself. I think it was a different looking room to the one we saw on the Resurrection Hub too, but I’m not sure.
February 7th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
When Baltar said “I know who you are.” He had a look of disappointment because:
Gaeta was just another little person who thought they had what it took to be someone of importance, but in the end he was just a little person unable to accomplish anything. Baltar knew he was a small person aspiring for something more which he could never have. Baltar is the opposite. He is a giant, in science and now religion, but his goals are often small because they revolve around him. Baltar has pity on the “little man” Gaerta.
Gaeta was not pivotal or important. He was just a tool of whoever caught his eye. Tool of the colonial fleet, tool of Baltar, tool of the eight and finally a tool of his own misjudgement of his importance. The best end for him would have been a grave with a tombstone reading “here lies a small man” and nothing more.
Again, this all must come to an end. Of the 40,000 who survived the attack, only a small few will be worth remembering. The names Adama, Starbuck and Baltar are all that will survive to the next cycle.
P.S. Gaeta’s webisodes were just BS to make the viewers think that this small man had some importance. Gaeta’s sin was that he didn’t know his place. Frak him.
February 7th, 2009 at 1:23 pm
what up everybody
even though it was predictable, this was a great episode. this was the only way it could go down. this was the truly ugly side of humanity confirming what the cylons think of humans. it is in our nature to destroy ourselves. i think that the cylons will have a new respect for humans now and Roslin put it to them bluntly, humans have climbed out of every hole the cylons have put them in. now what to do with all of the soldiers that participated in the revolt. the ones that slaughtered the quorum should be publicly air tubed. there comes a time when you must decide morality trumps duty. just following orders doesn’t excuse butchering. there is no honor in killing unarmed civilians just because you were told to. only one man saw that. he still hates cylons but he saw the real man he was following and that man had no honor. this says more about him rather than the men he served. there should be no pie in the sky forgiveness for these people. due to their importance to the fleet, they shouldn’t be killed. the galicitca is a very old and broken down lady and they should be put on scrub, repair, grunt work indefinitely. i mean the most horrid foul crap that can be thrown at them from chow grease cleaning to waste tube and tank scrubbing. right down to baby sitting fleet children. also no more civilians on the ship unless they join the military. it has been a disaster.
as for Ellen, as i have said before, she is with the Cavils. when she was busted by the rebels on new caprica and was supposedly poisoned by Saul she had no where to go but the Cavils. i think that she was placed in that tank to hide her from the others. we just saw with tyrol that evidently they may not need air. maybe she was in stasis. mere poison won’t do it. cylons are tough creatures and it takes serious trauma to kill them. she is going to be like a borg queen. i also think that she and Saul have not always been together since they have been with the humans and she has always been in a position of power through out her lives or the woman behind the power. i think we are going to find out that on Caprica she was a Greystone, and has always been with powerful men. that is how she has kept up with the five and a critical part of cylon creation. she is going to pop up with the Cavils. she is their little secret. when she shows up Saul is going to drop six like a chikin head baby mama leaving Baltar to step in and be the man he seems to want to be. but with him, this leopard can’t change his spots. i read one comment from one of you guys i forgot which one about how pissed Ellen is going to be to find out Saul is baby daddy but she has no room to bitch. after all she is a strait up ho. it’s going to be interesting. as for the other four i think that they all worked at the lab on earth that started developing hybrid technology
and that they used that untested technology on themselves just before they left earth. they never knew if it worked or not until now. if it did, All
Along The Watchtower was their switch. i just had the craziest idea, nobody gets why Anders is a cylon, what if he is Ellen’s son. when he said he wrote that song it seemed very college jock or very college intern and he is the right age. he is also not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Tori is managerial and administrative and knew the in’s and outs of the project. Tyrol is very mechanical and precise. he helped develop the mechanical cylons and the blending of mechanical side to the hybrids. remember the centurions had skeletons. Saul was part of the military r&d side on earth. he has always been a military man. think that is why Ellen chose them all to leave with her and Saul. she could have been cheating on her husband with Saul on earth. that is also why Sam seems to be ok with Kara cheating. he saw it all the time with his mother and it doesn’t phase now. when i saw that Saul and Ellen were their ages when they left earth, i think they have not always been together. they might have hooked up in their mid to late 30’s on the job and she set it up for them to be together. maybe we will find out more about their pasts.
February 7th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
I for one did not have a problem with the rebellion being put down fast. Rebellions are either put down fast or they stick. There is no in-between. As others have stated, Gaeta never had full control as evidenced by the continuous shooting around the ship (even Romo referred to it). Rebellions are typically staged by a few mutineers for control, never a lot of people. I also think the rebellion happened over the course of one day (remember they kept putting time on the bottom of the screen — I am pretty sure it was one day because they did not mention “day one” or “day two”)…so I am fine with a quick put down of the rebellion.
Badass Kara and Lee. Nothing more need be said. Glad to see them back.
Baltar continues to be the most interesting figure. When is he going to talk to Head 6 again? Why has 6 left him for Tigh? His epiphany concerning his “people” is stated in almost a confession like manner to the “Natalie” 6. A major part of confession is not only stating your sins but then doing something about it…and he is going to do something about it. His interaction with Gaeta is subtlely and professionally done. Hearing Gaeta reflect on his life saddened me. A life wasted after so much good.
John McClane Tyrol! I am fairly certain he is not in an area devoid of air. He is either seeing the beginning of a breach or he is seeing some sort of symbol sign that tells him what to do. I am thinking it is Galactica breaking down. I seem to remember someone saying in an interview there will be many who don’t make it. Perhaps there will be a number of people who go down with the ship. If Galactica goes down then Adama will go down with it.
Roslin’s interaction with Tory was interesting. Remember when Roslin said words to the effect of “Your lack of knowledge about the bigger picture”? And how was Roslin able to override a majority decision by the Cylons? Don’t they just act once they have made a decision? Why is Tory now listening to Roslin? Remember when she said “I am done taking orders from you” and walks off? Very confusing that scene.
Zarek: Great character / good riddance. I wished he would have been airlocked instead of shot. I miss airlocking.
Gaeta: The music and the itching stopped simultaneously. Is there something to that? Or is it that his soul was cleansed and therefore his mind was clear? I admit to being absolutely pissed off and angered by Gaeta. This episode made you realize he really was operating from a “Cylons are the enemy” point of view. Zarek played him well.
What will happen with Seelix and the other conspirators?
#3 is still on Earth. Sooner or later they have to go back to Earth and retrieve her. Of course — is that really Earth? Or just an Earth-like world? We never saw anything that truly identified that world as Earth. We did not see any overhead shots of the land masses. If it was Earth, then it is waaayyyyy in our future.
The end of “Razor” keeps coming back to me. Where did they get the “humanoids” that form the consciousness of the Hybrid? That is an unanswered question.
All of this will happen and I can’t wait for it to happen again over the next few weeks!
February 7th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
The Ship
I predicted it in last week’s bsg cast. The ship is literaly falling apart. The crack Tyrol saw the ship startin to split. Remember that this ship was supposed to be retired 4(about) years ago. I just hope that they don’t end up having to abandon the ship, but knowing Ron the ship will fall apart before the reach the final planet.
Tyrol- knows the ship really well. He Lee and Kara saved the ship
Lee and Kara- It’s so obvious from these past episodes that they belong 2gether. They work at their best when they are 2gether. Part of me hopes Sam dies so that Kara and Lee could get 2gether.
This epidode was so great: Roslyn’s war cry was so perfect and Adama’s march was a little bit cheesy but I thought the idea of it was good. I think it’s okay that the revolution was wrapped up so neatly by the end of this episode because the majority of the ship wasn’t on Gaeta’s side plus the people that were on Gaeta’s side weren’t Adama haters they were just Cylon haters.
Baltar-I find it amazing how Baltar always finds a way to get laid even with so much going on
February 7th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
I’ve gotta say it again: we did not see in any way whatsoever that Tyrol or the rest of the five can exist without air. That is absolutely ridiculous in the extreme. There was a crack in a wall because the ship is slowly falling apart. That does not mean the air has escaped. Please click on my name above to see the clue where Adama will see a similar crack. Tell me he doesn’t need air either? Let’s put this idea to rest, OK?
February 7th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
Sweet Episode!
Starting with the end, we see Robespierre and Pegleg Napolean getting their comeuppance! A satisfying end, including how the disquiet in Gaeta’s soul (and itch in his stump) abruptly subside in his final moments, and they were executed with the same means they used to try to conquer (incidentally similar to the way some French revolutionaries were seen to be too revolutionary and were subsequently beheaded in the guillotine). And how Zarek was all about killing all the colonial aristocracy that stood in his way (the Chief, the Adamas, Roslyn, the Quorem, etc.) also hearkens back to the French revolution. Considering that Zarek made his first appearance in “Bastille Day,” RDM seems to have deep drawn inspiration from that period.
It’s great to see Kelly in these episodes, and I hope we see more of him. It’d be great if he gets reinstated as LSO, at least as a Lt. if not back as Captain. I’m also wondering if Tyrol will resume his post as Chief now that they need him the most.
The Galactica starting to shear itself apart is almost like a metaphor for the fleet, or maybe it’s vice versa… the fleet undergoing a brief civil war presaging the impending demise of the ship. The Galactica is on its last legs, and Tyrol spotted it and knows it’s just a matter of time. BTW, seeing the Galactica’s jump drive reminded me of GalaxyQuest. I almost expected Tyrol to have to dogde and jump the pistons to get to the shutoff switch!
If Cavil and company give the fleet time to pull things together, I expect we’ll see a new Quorem with a cylon at the table… probably Tory, but maybe the Leoben with the magic talk-box since he and Roslyn played nice together and managed to accomplish something. Hopefully Roslyn is out of her funk for good and will resume the Presidency, with Lee as VP.
I’m curious to see what the final body-count is after the dust settles on the coup. It had to be in the hundreds, at least half of them civilians.
As for the next episode, it looks to be cylon-heavy. Anders gets transferred to the baseship to be treated (too crowded in sickbay to stay beyond being triaged, I’m assuming) and starts to remember everything about Earth. And Ellen gets resurrected on the Resurrection ship. I’m thinking that when she died on New Caprica, she downloaded to the hub then got rerouted to a resurrection ship. Because there were no spare Ellen-bodies on the rack, it took 18 months to grow her a new one. I don’t know if Cavil knows she’s coming or even knows she was one of the FF, though I wouldn’t be surprised if he did, but clearly we’ll get to see her attempting some sort of manipulation, maybe even a power play in the cylon fleet.
February 7th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
I think William Shakespere said it best “the conscince doth make cowards of us all”. In the end, I would not say that Gaeta froze, but that he realized that following Zarek was not the right thing to do.
Zarek is an example of “absolute pwer corupting absolutely.” He proved that he was scum when Adama confromted him with the laundry list. Zarek was just a Hitler in that he used hatred as his power base. If his revolution whould have succeded, it would have been a facist regiem just as bad as Nazi Germany.
I was looking at the clock wondering if this was a three parter. I would think Adama’s rescue would be part of a bonus package. It was a little quick but then so was getting to Earth. Something for the writers to think about.
My thought on the preview, it looked to me like one of the tubs on a basestar. Could there be an aux tub on the basestar and that is where Helen appears??
February 7th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
After watching “Blood on the Scales”, I now have a mighty extreme theory I would like to test out on you. Don’t judge me until you’ve really given it some consideration. Okay here it is: I believe that Ron Moore may very well be taking the series into “dark” teritory. This would of course be quite a daring route. I mean what a hard turn. To go from such inspiring and optimistic storylines to “darkness”? I don’t know about you but I miss the care free days of Nuclear holocausts, food and water shortages, rape, attempted suicides, successful suicides, assassination plots/attempts, torture, spousal murder, just plain murder, alcoholism, drug abuse, blowing up civillian ships, and of course life threatening illnesses. But who knows, right? Maybe I’m reading to much into “Blood on the Scales”. I’m sure that next weeks episode titles “No Exit” will have a very upbeat message. What do you guys think?
February 7th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
I think Gaeta was free in the end, that’s why his stump stopped itching–redemption was what he wanted all along, and for some reason taking control for those few hours, were all part of his way of doing that and an indirect way of committing suicide,
Of course Lee and Kara are meant to be together, they sort of already are! Anders is her ex, and they still have a bond–but then at that moment, She knew that he was going to die, but had to be w/him== he did the right thing, go girl!
Best words? Romo “…this field trip to justice” .. Plus that pen, what is it that man and placing the pen down in that special way–who’s was it by the way? Stabbing people in the jugular w/pens, seems to be pretty popular lately.
I loved the scene at the end, it proved how MANY people were not on Gaeta or Zarek’s side. I could see how crazy people thought the idea was when Zarek tried to convince the quorum of Gaeta’s ability to lead. They knew that was not true, and as we saw people dropping off the bandwagon. It was because the cost became too high, and as we saw at the end (I forgot that pilot;s name) the reason for the mutiny was said outloud, when Adama asked if he was w/him, he said he admired and respected him, but he hates the cylons. That was it in a nutshell, and Adama was right not to kill him–Adama is truly a great leader.
I loved how more and more people came out of the woodwork and joined him, that’s what loyalty and true leadership really is, it does pay off. We saw it here-now Ellen? I can’t wait to see her again! Maybe we’ll find out the secret of adorable Hera too.
A
February 7th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
I can’t work out where this idea that the FTL drives are in a vacuum. The constant implication was that they were in the centre of the ship and, if nothing else, they were fairly noisy. BSG may take some serious physics liberties at times but, as an example, when Garner was fixing Pegasus’ FTLs it got steadily quieter as the air ran out. Also it’s been months since Galactica last got shot at, presumably someone would have checked the FTLs since then…
Those cracks look like structural failure to me.
February 7th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
Yo!
One word to describe what I was thinking at the beginning of this episode: PANDAMONIUM. Here’s a few more:
Shock. The Quorum gets slaughtered.
)
Awe. Roslin is coming for all of you.
Respect. Baltar admits to the reason for him being a “pimp”.
Reverie. We get to see the Galactica’s “Jeffries Tubes”
The one thing I keep thinking since the Mutiny began: what the frack did Gaeta and Zarek think they were going to do if the evil Cylons showed up? Oh yeah – and I really thought that Gaeta was going to accidentally break that model ship during a fit to try and cope with himself betraying Adama like that. Oh well.
Some more thoughts:
Sam won’t die.
Why does Baltar know things?
Where’s D’Anna?
Can it all get any darker than this?
Who iinvented soft-soap, and why?
Cheerio,
Ripley
February 7th, 2009 at 5:58 pm
Galactica is dying, we saw cracks in the structure again-only a matter of time before it collapses and everyone moves to the rebel ship. If you listen closely, each episode has the creaks and moans of old Galatica on the soundtrack.
February 7th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
Payback time for Tigh and Ellen.
Cavil is in for a big frakin surprise! The man who he tortured and ripped out his eye and the women he forced into having sex with him are two of the final five.
I hope Ron Moore writes in the story how these two get a little vengence before the story ends.
February 7th, 2009 at 6:43 pm
oh, one more thing:
didn’t “Commander Gaeta” sound alot like “Commander Data”?
February 7th, 2009 at 7:26 pm
I have to say, this is one intense episode. I loved and hated it and I think thats what makes it so good. I think my favorite part of the episode, tho, had to be at the end. They made this big deal about Gaeta’s leg itching and then, right as he was about to be exicuted, he just looked down and said “it stopped”. That was so powerfully and beautifully done by Alessandro Juliani (who portays Gaeta). It was very interesting because it was like his subconsious knew what he was doing was wrong but he just hated the cylons that his didn’t care. When he said that he was content with the way it turned out it was like he realized what he was doing was wrong and Ron Moore gave him that one last relief before he died by taking away that pain. The absence gave him a moment of peace before he died. It was very interesting how they redemed him (and I really think they did because I spent the last two episodes hating him but at the end of this one I was actually sad to see him die) but not Zarek. It’s almost like they want us to hate him when he dies.
I also really enjoyed Rosilins “I’M COMING FOR ALL OF YOU!!!” She would have scared the crap out of me. Especially since, for all they know, she had control of the baseship and they “killed” the only reason she wasn’t desroying them at the moment.
I actually think this is one of my favorited episodes (definately of this season) because it was so intense and so “edge of your seat” jam packed full of action.
February 7th, 2009 at 7:32 pm
I thought this was a great episode. The fact that the coup d’etat was over so fast did not surprise me. A rebellion / mutiny has to be quick, as does the counter strike. Gaeta’s refusal to fire on the baseship showed that he knew the rebellion was over. Indeed, he knew it was over the moment the FTL went offline. Just before Adama marched into the CIC, he whispered, “There’s going to be a reckoning…”
I was not surprised that Adama marched into the CIC. It showed that the Galactica was his.
Baltar with Gaeta: This reminded me of a condemned man talking with the padre before his execution.
Gaeta faced the firing squad well. He faced the rifles believeing that what they were doing what was right, though for different reasons. I do agree that Garek realized his mistake about throwing his lot in with Zarek, but he was committed.
Tyrol and Arron in the weapons locker was outstanding. I agree that both realized just how far everything was fraked.
Apollo and Starbuck still make me smile. The banter around the grenade was classic. Apollo was right – It WAS funny!
I’m not sure Galactica has any more FTL jumps left in her. Or, if she does, it will be a one-way trip.
February 7th, 2009 at 7:33 pm
I should obviously be fan of the week for not calling anyone dirty, filthy, rotten names for their ridiculous theories about the final five not needing oxygen.
February 7th, 2009 at 8:42 pm
Darth: I agree that the Chief saw a bulkhead, not the outer skin of the ship ripping.
Let’s turn that idea around for a second.
We’ve been speculating that the Galactica will be lost in a Pegasus-like suicide run against Cavil’s basestar. What if the Rebels’ basestar does a suicide run against Cavil to protect Galactica & the Final Five?
Let’s assume that the Rebels are given citizenship. A fast turn around like this is not unreasonable. First, of all, They did support Roslin and Adama. Second, they need every ally they can get right now. (And is it all that different from what happened between the US & Russia after the fall of the USSR?)
It could be that Galactica will not be able to jump away from Cavil’s forces. Instead of Galactica coming the the Rebels’ assistance, it may work the otherway. Refugees from the basestar will take stay onboard the Grey Lady while someone (Baltar and a Six?) takes on Cavil. (I am wondering about Baltar because he is showing signs of growing up and taking responsibility for his actions.)
February 7th, 2009 at 9:33 pm
I have not read the comments above mine, due to lack of time. However, I did want to throw in my two cubits on this episode:
“The night is darkest just before the dawn, and the dawn is coming.” – Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight. I felt the need to use that quote here.
When Ronald D. Moore, David Eick, and Edward James Olmos said that the end was dark they were not lying here. First: the quorum. When I heard Zarek tell the marines to kill them my heart stopped; then I heard the gunfires and then later they showed the mangled, bloody bodies and again my heart stopped. Gaeta and Zarek got their just end.
Zarek took over the government like a dictator. Everything he said he stood for, he really did not. For instance, he said something along the lines of “History is written by whoever controls the government” (very 1984). He was willing to lie to the people and before he always took a stand against lying, but here he was willing to do it. I loved the scared Zarek. He freaked out before the end, as he rightly should have done. Him and Gaeta got the same trial that they gave Adama, none.
Gaeta. My poor Gaeta. All he was is a man that wanted to be known (what school-shooter hasn’t said that, and in a way he was). I did love the last line that he said, “I don’t feel it anymore.” It has many (it is so poetic…I swear this last season is playing out so beautifully, like a book) meanings. He does not feel his ghost-leg anymore. Yet, more importantly, he does not feel the need to be known anymore. He realized he will be infamous, not famous, and he accepted that fact. I did like how they let him talk to Baltar before the end. It came together so nicely.
Okay, now for the bad-ass, gather-the-gang scene at the end where people were coming from everywhere to march with Adama to take back the CIC: wow. Where were these people before, eh? Most likely they were too scared to do anything, and then they saw the Adama-squad and decided that it was time to do something.
What is going to happen to the betrayers? Trials? Death? Forgiven? Throw them into the cylon brig! (the one created for Athena, not on the cylon basestar, even though that would be a great punishment for them). What is going to happen to all those ship captains that were going to jump? So many questions to answer in six more episodes.
Baltar. Roslin. Starbuck. What are they? We’ve known since the beginning that Roslin is so important to the universe. Baltar since the Hand of God episode. Starbuck, Maelstrom. Are they gods? Lord of Kobol? (which would make them gods anyways). People of light? What the frak are they! Baltar is having visions. He finally came to the conclusion that he is not happy and sex does not help. That is a HUGE shift for his character. He realizes that maybe he has a duty to do in this universe and he has to take care of people now.
Seeing the sneak preview and preview for next week’s episode is this: Lee will slowly become president as he assigns quorum members (is that fair, no) and Roslin wants to step down. The most important thing is that Ellen comes back, and it looks like Matrix-style. Although I must say it was funny to see that the centurian had a what-the-frak moment.
Okay, best for last: the cylons. First, Tyrol. Aaron Kelly liked him before and he does not want to kill him because they were good friends and Kelly finally sees that they are not so different. I mean the final five had nothing to do with the genocide (that we know of). When they showed the FTL drive, my first thought was “Yes, that is what I thought it would look like.” I don’t know why. Now, the strange things is, that cut. Is the ship falling apart? If so, why didn’t he die from lack of air? I mean wasn’t he going to die when him and Cally were stuck without air in season three? Or was it part of his programming? Either way, it seems like when the show ends, so will the Galactica, a sad yet complete idea. Second, Tory. She is the leader of the rebel cylons and damn, they listen to her right away. Side-note, it seems like the cylons can trust the humans a little more now, shown by Leoben helping Roslin (which by the way her speech sounded like a speech that someone in sport movies give right before the big game). Third, Tigh and Anders: Not much to say there. I think the writers had Anders shot because he had a neck injury due to a car accident, so he should be fine. Will the crew listen to Tigh as XO anymore? Hard to say which will, and which will not. Fourth and final, Hera. She had her second line (less creepy than he bye-bye line she had in Guess Who’s Coming for Dinner). Ronald D. Moore said she will play a huge role, and it might just be leading both Humans and Cylons to be at peace, until eventually they can come back to Earth and live on it again and start the cycle over again. That is my theory with her. She is human, but she is also cylon. It is important for the colonist to realize that.
My thoughts on “Blood on the Scales” from a fan since the beginning of the re-imaged series. Here is to the end of all things, to come to the end of it all in such a darkness without a light, so say we all:
-Mario
February 7th, 2009 at 10:16 pm
I am so sad about Geata. Its seems not many people care about his tradegdy. He was a good man. He was trying to protect the integrity of the human race and he just couldn’t trust the leadership anymore because they appeared to have been corrupted to do personal bias. Doesn’t anyone sympathize with him. After Dee shot herself I think that was the last straw for Mr. Geata. He lost his leg, he lost the hope of earth, what did he have left. Geata just lost it. I don’t care that he tried to mutany, for his past service they should have let him live. I am really pissed off that Adama killed him in the firing squad. I know they said no more amnesty this time like on New Capirca but come on these are extrodinary circumstances and you know what, Geata had a point. Adama should not have Tigh and other the other final five in important positions, no matter how much he trusts them. Until more is known they shoudln’t really be trusted. OK Geata should’t have given the order to kill Adama, but removing him from duty- I get it. Also Geata is struggling with post tramatic stress disorder, I mean everyone is after alittle bit after finding earth destroyed but Geata big time cause of the loss of his leg and the death of Dee on top of it. Geata should have not been killed like that! He should have been deemed mentally unstable instead. His past history shows he was acting out of character. Doesn’t anyone else out there agree with me?
February 7th, 2009 at 10:44 pm
Oh, this was a great episode, and I agree with you, Maria, in mourning Gaeta. He went thru so much, and I don’t think anything was ENTIRELY out of character under those circumstances. But it took the massive shock of him seeing almost the entire Quourm of the Twelve massacred for him to realize that whatever idealistic notions he had, Zarek was in it for the power. And thank the Lords of Kobol he came to his senses when the FTL went out and surrendered. I think his last scenes with Baltar, and his death, were some of AJ’s best. He may not have died with honor, but he died with dignity.
And speaking of Baltar – I cannot say how pleasantly surprised I was when he turned down the Six’s offer of sex (what is it with that model and Baltar anyway?), and had his own epiphany, that he needed to take responsibility for his actions and his people. This day, he has become a Man.
Loved hard-ass Kara, but Lee’s right, the un-pulled pin was funny!
Loved that Kelley has earned his pardon, and that he of all people was finally able to see a cylon as a person. Tyrol as always was magnigicent. And when he saw that crack, he knew – the old girl’s days are numbered.
Most touching moment, though, has to be when Roslin saw Adama after it was all over. Didn’t she climb down that same ladder the first time she boarded Galactica, way back in the mini? Very appropriate for her return. Both MM ad EJO knocked this one out of the park.
Next week: finally, some answers about the Final Five!!
February 7th, 2009 at 10:48 pm
Maria: I would agree that Gaeta was suffering from PTSD and general depression. I also agree that much of the fleet was also suffering from depression.
Gaeta was acting under, what he considered, a higher moral principle. The fact that he wanted Adama tried and that he wanted Adama to admit that he was “giving comfort to the enemy” is supporting evidence. Further supporting evidence is his reaction to the Quorum being executed.
Nevertheless, I would not consider him mentally unstable. His actions as commander of Galactica were quite rational. I saw no evidence of a psychological incapacity. (Please keep in mind that i am not a psychiatrist, nor do i play one on television. However, I do teach teenagers – a wild and unstable lot in and of themselves.)
What Felix Gaeta did was commit mutiny. Worse, it was mutiny in a time of war. No, not war against the Cylon Rebels – rather War against the Cavils, et. al. The Rebels are defecting, if the fleet will have them. They have the potential to be great allies, if the fleet can get past their hatred.
Execution is the standard punishment on-board ship during a state of war for a mutineer.
I will say that Gaeta faced his executioners with a brave face and a clear conscience. To the end, he believed that he was working to save the fleet and humanity. As such, he considered himself a true patriot. That eased his mind so much that the pain in his leg left him. That is why he had a look of confusion on his face. The first time you are truly at peace with yourself can be a very confusing blessing. Given another instant to live, I believe that Felix Gaeta would even have smiled.
February 7th, 2009 at 10:53 pm
With so many comments already here, I know I’ll just wind up being buried, but here goes.
Zarek – so much has been said here already. I won’t detract from other posters, but does anyone else agree how good a job Hatch does acting here? When the Quorum tells him to leave, I detected a hint of hurt from him. I mean, they were with him earlier, and now that things are ugly, they backtrack. (They didn’t exactly agree to mutiny, after all. I think their decision is understandable.) His expression is that he understood their decision, but clearly it wasn’t what he wanted. He enters the hallway. I almost said, “It’s over right now.” He looked genuinely hurt, even if just slightly. Then he orders, “shoot them.” No more hurt, just cold resolve. And he keeps that cold resolve throughout his dealings with Gaeta and Adama. The Quorum’s execution made me jump off my sofa, but it really isn’t a surprise coming from Zarek. I would have hoped after all this time that he would have become more of a pragmatic politician, but his true colors were always lying just below that polished exterior. Seriously, how good is Richard Hatch here?
Gaeta – Matt and Nat called it right. He’s the Weakest Link. Good-bye. Seriously, though. What I picked up on most was the stump-scratching. I’m sorry. That’s probably insensitive to amputees. I mean no offense. But I get the feeling that he rubs/scratches because he’s not really at peace with himself. He resent something, or someone. At the very end, he says, “It stopped.” Right before he gets his brains scattered across the wall. Call it macabre if you will, but I believe he’s finally found peace. He’s accepted his face, both of his circumstance and his entire being. Thus, the pain in his leg stops. I don’t know just one way to look at it.
I’ll say this to, in response to Maria and others who are NOT demonizing Gaeta for his actions. I think we’re all something. It’s easy to criticize a mutineer, and even rightly so. But does Gaeta have a reason for his actions? I don’t like it, but I’d say so. I think many of us would do the same. Here’s the problem. Gaeta’s mutiny may be reasonable, or even understandable, but that alone doesn’t make it right. “Reasonable” and “right” are not always the same thing. “Reasonable” just makes something easier to swallow. But if something is not “right,”is it “wrong?” There’s a question for you.
I’m risking opening a big can of worms here, so I won’t speak of it any longer. Just food for thought.
February 7th, 2009 at 11:22 pm
This was definitely one of the best episodes so far, Roslin’s war cry when Zarek said Adama was executed was by far one of the best tv moments ever. I just want to throw my two cents in about some things:
Ellen- I think that she most likely she will be resurrected in Cavil’s fleet and from the previews she does look at little pissed off.
Starbuck- her character is definitely improving in this story arc. I also think that her role as the harbinger of death and the whole leading humanity to its end means that because of her the cycle stops thus “killing” the cyclic nature of the universe so to speak and that humanity ends because humanity and cylons join into a single species creating an end to humanity.
Random thing- No one ever mentions them in these posts but they are always mentioned by the cylons; the original programmers. The skin jobs always mention them in regards to the final five and programming them not to think about them. But this makes me think if they are referring to people like the graystones who created cylons or another unseen person or people or cylons or something else that created the skin jobs because its never been answered who made the skin jobs. This could also mean that the final five were actually the original programmers who made the other seven , which would help explain how ellen knew that they would resurrect
Zarek- I’m upset to see such a good character go, he was a very good evil character who wasn’t a cylon, too bad he won’t be around again, although we can probably look forward to see him blowing up a government building when Caprica comes out
Gaeta- I’m glad he died ever since he got his leg blown off he became very annoying and took precious screen time away from better characters. This episode was missing a Hoshi moment though, after the marines take him away in the last episode you don’t see him at all
I may be missing something but what has happened to all the head characters? The last time we saw one was a cat in sin qua non, and it never was explained why baltar saw the head baltar as opposed to head six and she needs to make an appearance again.
And I love the pen, its one of the more interesting returning characters in this episode.
February 7th, 2009 at 11:40 pm
Well, I’m double-posting. Go ahead. Throw me out the airlock. Sorry, I just forgot some things in my previous post.
Concerning Tyrol and the hull breach: he is probably able to survive because the tear is not large enough to suck out a significant amount of atmosphere. It’s not explosive decompression, especially since that tear has been there before Tyrol showed up. They’re losing atmosphere, sure. But they’re probably continuously pumping it into that room, too. So there may be some level of equilibrium. But then again, why don’t the alarms sound and the doors seal themselves, like in that room where Tyrol and Cally were? Still a strange situation, but maybe not as game-changing as a Cylon surviving without air sorta thing.
Ellen: Her resurrection leaves me with some questions. Okay. We know it can happen for the Five now. The question is is this the normal practice, or just one way they can come back? I have a hard time accepting that it’s standard downloading, because where are the other models of her line to download to? If the standard Cylon models (the Seven) are not programmed to think about the Five, certainly they don’t have a stockpile of their bodies lying around. That would make life difficult on the Resurrection Ships.
Do the Five resurrect without a body, a body miraculously appearing in the goo when they return? Or, since the Five are fundamentally different (which has yet to be detailed), maybe there are multiple ways they can resurrect. Maybe they can literally be reborn, too. Perhaps they just return in whatever method best fits the situation/time period. It raises some interesting questions.
February 8th, 2009 at 12:30 am
The crack is NOT a hull breach. The crack was in a supporting bulkhead. There was no venting of atmosphere into space. Both sides of the crack/bulkhead are within Galactica. Thus, no questions about living without air because they don’t. For the FF, indeed probably for all “skin jobs,” a constant breathable atmosphere is a necessity.
Think of this like a broken engine mount on your automobile. Chances are, the car will run fine … for a while.
February 8th, 2009 at 1:21 am
Shauna, we already know the cylons don’t actually need air (or at least, can do without it longer than most folks) from the episode where Kara was torturing Leobin by pseudo-drowning him in a bucket. After several scenes of him gasping for air and begging for mercy, we see the camera angle from the bucket, and he is completely calm and not actually drowning at all. Just toying with the humans.
Anyway, regarding the preview for next week – I’m not convinced it isn’t just more memories. The Canadian preview has Anders saying he remembers everything – and I’m assuming everything would mean their ORIGINAL ressurection, not any new ones.
I continue to believe that the Final Five and the Original Seven are “different” only in the fact that they somehow escaped being genetically altered by the Centurion-type cylons. By that I mean I believe they are all from earth, not just the Final Five. I think the rest have all been programmed, most likely by Cavil, not to remember. Could be untrue, of course, but I do believe that the primary difference between them is that the Centurions were able to, through their experiments seen in Razor, to integrate skinjob cylons into their technology – I go so far as to suspect that the hybrid they keep running into was a skinjob as well, just experimented on and hardwired into a baseship. The others might have faced a similar fate, if someone – and again I suspect Cavil – hadn’t come up with those inhibitors to control Centurion behavior.
February 8th, 2009 at 2:27 am
I am not sure that we have seen the end of Gaeta. Yes, I believe that he was shot and died but this is BSG and we already know that others have died and come back.
I am beginning to wonder if he is one of the set of ‘Lords of Kobol’ along with Starbuck and Baltar. It fits into Baltars ‘I know what you are’ comment…
I get the feeling that this time through the cycle, it will be the humans turn to go off and be the 13th tribe and that the Cylons/Humans that can co-exist will form the 12 colonies. The humans will need a leader to go off with and I think that it will be Gaeta not Baltar.
And thats my odd theory of the week — I’m sure that I will have a new one after the next episode blows this one from the water.
February 8th, 2009 at 2:57 am
I apologize for double-posting, but I had some more thoughts on the Galactica’s deteriorating state.
First, and please let this be for the last time, there was no outer hull breach and/or atmospheric decompression in the engineering section. If you look closer at the tears in the bulkhead, you see not one crack but three or four parallel cracks in the bulkhead, and the jagged metal edges are pointing into the compartment and not outward as one would expect to be associated with explosive atmospheric decompression. The cracks are clearly the result of metal fatigued to structural failure due to tensional and shear stresses in the INTERNAL bulkhead. There was not likely one single thing that caused it, but rather a list of contributing factors (constant vibration from heavy FTL components pistoning back and forth next door, dozens of nuke strikes on the ship’s outer hull shaking things loose, one too many free-falls into New Caprica’s atmosphere, etc.).
Second, skin jobs DO die without air to breathe. That’s how Helo stopped Adama from causing a massive cylon genocide at the Lion’s Head nebula… he rigged the compartment holding the diseased cylon captives to vent atmosphere before they jumped into range of the non-infected baseships. Not to mention that at least one Leoben and two Cavils got airlocked by the fleet.
Third, and the real reason I’m back to double-post, is that the ship’s deteriorating state made me realize something about Pithia’s scriptures. The scrolls said that the dying leader would guide them to the promised land but would not reach that promised land (or something to that effect), and we’ve all pretty well assumed that Roslin is that dying leader. But consider that of all the ships in the fleet, the Galactica leads and the rest (sooner or later) follow, even Colonial 1. And now the Galactica is showing it’s own versions of disease (mutinies and constant internal strife, and now the rending of its very bulkheads from hard usage and old age). Wherever they end up, it is not guaranteed the Galactica will survive to jump to the final destination. I’m thinking that the dying leader prophecy (as much as it still may apply) actually refers to not just Roslin (dying civilian leader), but also to the Galactica (lead ship of the fleet) and thus by extension Bill Adama (military leader dying with his command). And of the three, if only one doesn’t make it to the promised land then my money is on Galactica giving up the ghost and Bill and Laura surviving just long enough to get there.
February 8th, 2009 at 5:51 am
When i saw Chief looking at the stress fracture i realized that the end of the line was coming for the ship. That fracture was showing a symptom of the larger problem. The Ship is old and has been running it’s FTL’s non-stop without repairs. This show is called, “Battlestar Galactica” So when the ship ends, the show ends. This show has been about all the events happening all around this one “saving” ship. An ark, sort of speak, that has helped to save humanity. when the end comes for her, that will be the end of this series and someday, hopefully, onto the next continuing series.
February 8th, 2009 at 6:32 am
did anyone notice that when roslin was told by the cylons they wanted to leave that when she talked to tori, she seemed to put some empathisis ont he word “vision” in the line, i would have expected a member of the final 4 to have a better vision. Im wondering if maybe roslin knew adama had enough force to take back galactica cause she saw it in a vision.
February 8th, 2009 at 8:03 am
laura s: It’s possible that Roslin had a vision, but I would rather bet that she had (and has) complete and undying trust in Adama. She knew that Adama needed time and allies to retake Galactica. Roslin knew that she needed a safe haven to launch a counter strike with.
Roslin has always had the ability to rally people around a common idea – to join her dream for a future for all. Without that vision for the fleet, and now for the Cylons, humanity was lost and adrift.
Roslin responded like an avenging angel of death to Zarek’s demand for her surrender. I had absolutely no doubt that she was completely serious about using every weapon available to destroy Zarek. He was threatening, or had already killed, the love of her life – her soulmate. Laura Roslin would have ripped Tom Zarek’s heart out his body with her bare hands.
———————-
Mike: We’ve been talking about Laura Roslin being the dying leader everyone was following to Earth. Your comment gave me an idea. What if the dying leader of the fleet was not human. Perhaps the leader we are talking about is the Gray Lady herself: Galactica.
You are absolutely right. The ship is dying. She was ready to be retired before the Second War began. Pressed back into service, as battered and and as worn as she is, Galactica still keeps coming back for more.
Still, without repairs and maintanence in a graving dock, something has got to eventually give. We’re seeing the beginnings of it now. Once the bulkheads start to rip, it won’t be long before the Gray Lady will no longer be able to fight, let alone use her FTL drive.
Maybe Galactica will have the same fate as our own Gray Lady – the USS Lexington (CV-2) – at the Battle of the Coral Sea. I cannot think of a better way for her to end.
February 8th, 2009 at 10:53 am
I liked the episode.
I loved the Roselin battle cry.
I didn’t like how Tori just let herself be ordered around after become a bad a** at the beginning of the season.
I think that the equipment that Leoban used to boost Roselin’s broadcast might also be picked up the Cylon Fleet. The equipment looked like something that should be connected to a distress beacon or homing signal.
February 8th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
Well, I’m really going to miss Gaita’s Lament.
February 8th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
OBTW….was that Natalie with Baltar?
February 8th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
Damn…why am I discovering this site only NOW? So near the end.
Anyway, this mutiny storyline was the best so far in the series. Best two-parter in BSG history by FAR.
One thing I found out that was interesting that according to imdb.com, Gaeta is still listed as appearing in the rest of the episodes. So, either he somehow survives or is spared or something…..or we get (yawn) flashbacks.
Whatever the case may be, these recent two episodes played out like “24″ in space. Awesome job, RDM!!
February 8th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
Brian – new six Lida.
February 8th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
“I am so sad about Geata. Its seems not many people care about his tradegdy. He was a good man. He was trying to protect the integrity of the human race and he just couldn’t trust the leadership anymore because they appeared to have been corrupted to do personal bias. Doesn’t anyone sympathize with him. After Dee shot herself I think that was the last straw for Mr. Geata. He lost his leg, he lost the hope of earth, what did he have left. Geata just lost it. I don’t care that he tried to mutany, for his past service they should have let him live. I am really pissed off that Adama killed him in the firing squad. I know they said no more amnesty this time like on New Capirca but come on these are extrodinary circumstances and you know what, Geata had a point. Adama should not have Tigh and other the other final five in important positions, no matter how much he trusts them. Until more is known they shoudln’t really be trusted. OK Geata should’t have given the order to kill Adama, but removing him from duty- I get it. Also Geata is struggling with post tramatic stress disorder, I mean everyone is after alittle bit after finding earth destroyed but Geata big time cause of the loss of his leg and the death of Dee on top of it. Geata should have not been killed like that! He should have been deemed mentally unstable instead. His past history shows he was acting out of character. Doesn’t anyone else out there agree with me?” – Maria
Indeed, Maria. Gaeta was a very tragic character that seemed to have his heart in the right place. But he should have been stronger. Had he the strength he would have seen waaaaay beforehand what Zarek told him straight up – This is a *coup*!! When you overthrown governments, you shed blood. History has taught us that. Gaeta should have realized the chaos he was conceiving by choosing to abandon Adama.
So I agree that Gaeta simply couldnt take anymore, and that is a pity. But in the end, he caused his own downfall.
February 8th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
Geata’s execution did make me cry a bit.
But you know what? OK, this is only cause I have a bit of a thing for Trucco, but seeing Anders basically on his way to death upset me a lot. Maybe it’s just because it was done well… and, cause I like him. Actually, also it’s clear that for all that distance pushing between Kara and Sam… and the “I was going to marry Lee but on second thought” thing… and the frakking around behind his back thing… and the whole Cylon thing… and the whole she’s a duplicate thing… and stuff… she still cares for Sam so much, it seems.
It really made me remember – they really were so into each other. She pushed and pushed and pushed hard to rescue him. She did love him, I think – whatever the feelings she also had for Lee.
It all really fell apart from her kidnapping (New Caprica) onward – so they had like, what, a year together total. And then it all went to crap.
And yet, now, after that and so much more, she is still loyal to – if not actually in love with – Sam Anders.
It was hardly the focus of the episode, but it’s something I noted.
February 8th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
ortizmo: I suspect all of the regular actors are credited on the remaining episodes for a reason, because sly fans such us can’t trawl the database coming up with wild theories as to who is doing what. i’m pretty sure dualla is credited on the remaining episodes, even though she’s dead. imagine how easy it would’ve been to reference imdb to find out who the 5th cylon was before they aired the episode.
February 8th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
Good point, gaseous. Although I didnt check on the actress who played Dee, I did check on Richard Hatch. He is *not* listed in the remaining episodes. The conspiracy grows! ;o)
February 8th, 2009 at 4:50 pm
@ itwillhappen again: ah, thanks.
@ Ortizmo: Absolutely agreed about Gaita! As twisted as his actions became, his intensions remained ever laudable. One might even say the same for Zarek, though he really took action to the extreme (and therefore I shed no tears for him). I really thought the last five minutes or so were pretty poigniant. Poor Felix! I actually felt sorry for a secondary character!
February 8th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
Another great interview about this week’s episode:
http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/battlestar_galactica/
February 8th, 2009 at 5:32 pm
Having read other posts on the tear in the FTL hold, and after watching the episode again on SciFi Rewind, I’ll retract my previous statements concerning it. I had thought it a hull breach, because I saw what looked like stars in the cracks, demonstrating that beyond that tear lies the expanse of space. Having seen the episode again, I looked at it more closely. It looks more like more fragments poking through the tear, juts forming pinpricks of light in the room’s illumination.
So thanks guys for helping me learn this. I think it is indeed a stress fracture. I just didn’t look at it close enough. Sorry.
February 8th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
@itwillhappen again
Tori just standing there looking stunned bothered me too. But the more I thought about it, I think Roslin called all her bad assery into question. I mean what good is being strong and murderous, when you have no insight and no plan? All Tori was thinking about was basic survival. The final five are supposed to be special, leaders, quasi-religious figures. Basically Tori went all Denethor, “Run, run for your lives!” Not exactly inspiring. Shouldn’t she as one of the final five have more to offer?
I think that’s what left Tori standing there looking all dubious. She’s just as confused and frightened as everyone else.
I’m not sure what TPTB are trying to say with all this. None of the final 4 seem all that insightful. They are just as frakked up as everyone else. Tori seemed to be the one Cylon who seemed to buy into the myth of being superior more than the other 3. Anders, Tyrol and Tigh know they are starting from zero. Tori has the farthest to fall.
February 8th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
Hi Ya’ll
I just wanted to say that I love Gaeta. It was a very hard episode to watch because you knew he was going to die, but I (at least) didn’t want to see him go away. I want to add some things to the discussion of his ultimate role on the show. Several seasons ago there was a scene in the hanger, a ritual preformed before every battle between the flight crew and the pilots. A verse was read and salt was poured out and the two sides were split. After the verse from Pythia was read they then scattered the salt with their feet. It was symbolic of them sticking together because Pythia predicted that they would split and that a rift would occur between the two sides.
Just because Ron Moore hasn’t highlighted Pythia in these past episodes doesn’t mean she is not still important. The only reason we haven’t heard about her is because everyone is supposed to have lost their faith, but that doesn’t mean she is not still right. This leads me to three conclusions.
1) Gaeta was part of God’s plan and is simply filling a role created for him by God. I believe his actions were his own doing, but that his mutiny was foretold and actually desired by the powers that be for a variety of reasons. It purges the fleet again, which has to be a good thing. It gets rid of the Qurum (who lets be honest hindered progress), it allows Roslin to include the Cylons in the new Qurum (which is probably part of his ultimate plan), it gets rid of that self serving ass hole named Tom Zarek who took way to long to die.
2) The President has to die soon. Pythia mentions that the dying leader doesn’t make it to earth. Roslin should know this, everyone should know this. In order for the show to end she needs to go the way of the Dodo and why no one has pointed this out. I don’t know.
3) Gaeta’s suffering was not in vain (I Hope). He was in pain. There are moments during the show when he is practically crying in pain over his leg. And the music and the pain stop the moment before he is about to die and the moment after he has accomplished all that God has needed him to accomplish. What does he do and how does he get there? Okay – Without his leg he had to rely on Zarek because he was in pain and debilitated. He knew what Zarek was like but needed him. Don’t you think Gaeta could have accomplished more he had been alone without that impatient and extremely flawed Zarek. That situation with the President would not have happened at all. He also would have been better able to deal with the situations as they arose, had he been quicker and less focused on his pain. Gaeta was distracted half the time because of the pain in his leg. He couldn’t think as effectively as we know he can. The pain stopped at that moment because he wasn’t necessary for the plan for him to be in pain any more. If you take the music to be a sign from God, nothing could be clearer.
Gaeta and all of his suffering has had consequences that have not been fully realized. As a result of Gaeta’s leg being shot off by a Cylon in love with an angel what has happened? A mutiny aboard Galactica, further enlightenment and remorse on the part of Gaius, and Zarek’s death. What happened as a result of Gaeta’s loyalty to Gaius, he becomes president of the colonies, causes the human race to be thinned out even more, and gives fuel to the resistance (headed by cylons who thin the herd even more with their suicide attacks), and the rescue of Hera. Not to mention that he is the only one who can run the ship after Dualla’s death.
He has been so important but no one has paid any attention to him. He is the ultimate shadow there to suffer and do gods will (aka Ron Moore), but without any comfort. And here is another thing, Ron Moore has said that they didn’t know anything about the relationship when they were filming and that Hoshi was after thought. That means he was totally content with killing Gaeta off without anything. He was alone, friendless, a traitor and a cripple. That’s just mean.
Final note, I am really happy Zarek is dead and it cost me Gaeta for that to happen. And I think I am so upset because I’m not sure if in the end it was too high a price to pay.
February 8th, 2009 at 8:14 pm
Ye Gods! There was no lack of air!
February 8th, 2009 at 8:43 pm
This episode certainly brought out some possible changes in the future.
What is going to happen to the Quorum now? Roslin has to reinstate a new Quorum, she is a smart woman and I’m sure that she knows she will be screwed if representation is ignored. However, seeing as RDM loves to put everyone in that lovely greyscale, what if this new Quorum is corrupt? I don’t think they will necessarily be awful people, but what if the new Quorum was chosen because they will approve the Cylons installing the FTL drives in the ships?
And what about a new vice president? I’m assuming it has to be Lee. I read somewhere that two of the Quorum members weren’t at that meeting and there were just stand-ins, but then again they have never delved into the specifics of the Quorum members. They’ve changed the characters around the represent different colonies in the episode, so I wonder if that was intentional and we will see two of the old members back.
Also, an side note, I found it interesting how Natalie called out Leoben for being obsessed with “that woman,” and yet time and time again we have seen the Sixes with a profound fixation on Baltar. We’ve had Caprica, Gina, and now Lida. I liked how Lida clung to Baltar. Especially since she referred to his injuries as actually “injured” as opposed to “damaged.” And did anyone else think that she looked like an angel? It was kind of reminiscent to D’Anna, iwith the darker blonde curly hair and the white outfit. If Lida doesn’t return, I’m going to be annoyed. It will have made her purely a plot device. Now if Head Six had showed up instead, that would have been cool, but I’m wondering when H6 is going to come back? I know that she said that Baltar doesn’t need her anymore, but she has to return at some point…right?
February 8th, 2009 at 8:51 pm
Something I just realized while rewatching the episode on TiVo: I don’t see why Adama was so upset about the trial, it was essentially the kind of trial he was going to give Baltar in season 3! Once again Gaeta is involved in essentially rigged trials.
February 8th, 2009 at 9:42 pm
Needless to say, I have not read every post.
so I may have missed the discussion about this
who nuked the Cylon colony/planet?
February 8th, 2009 at 10:17 pm
I’ve been thinking about what will happen to the quorum. What I would LIKE to see is one member for every ship (could combine several small ships into one representative if necessary), since the twelve colonies are an outdated way of thinking of themselves, including one for the cylons. As much as the quorum members were trying to represent the people, they were clearly ignoring the fact that some of the cylons had asked to join them. By not having a cylon on the quorum, they were insisting that the cylons remained the unwanted outsiders. With the Galactica on the way out, they really need to reassess that assumption.
What will actually happen? A cylon might be added since the quorum has to be rebuilt, but I suspect that it will default back to one representative per colony.
February 8th, 2009 at 11:24 pm
As if Roslin’s “eyeteeth” speech wasn’t empowering enough, did anyone notice how emotional the Six was behind her? I always thought it was the Eight’s that were weak, but that Six was easily swayed and looked like she was going to be brought to tears by Laura’s fury.
February 8th, 2009 at 11:33 pm
Oh I enjoy these late night ramblings.
How about this?
Ellen Tigh is the prophet Pythia…let that sink in.
It explains the time discrepancies, how Pythia could know about the journey to Earth and yet it still be in the Kobol religion (Go to the Lion’s Head, Ionian!). Ellen knows the truth, thats for sure. She said so herself: “We’ll be reborn again, together.”
February 8th, 2009 at 11:59 pm
I’m suddenly having visions of Ellen leading a toaster-revolution against Cavil’s fleet. I’m sure she will try to manipulate Cavil into getting what she wants, but when Cavil gets tired of being led by his nethers and otherwise manipulated by Ellen he’ll decide to put her back down in her place. Then she’ll bring the heat with the toasters and purge the Cavils and any others that get in the way.
I just wish I could wake up from my Galactica visions next to a Tricia Helfer clone like that pimpbot, Baltar.
February 9th, 2009 at 12:25 am
I too enjoyed Roslin using the words “I thought that you would have more vision than that”–was actually an insult in 2 ways:
a)she has no vision or experience to be talking at all and b) if being an FF is so great, and she is leading, all that “vision”should exist. Tory is just annoying lately.
As for Baltar–is it me or does than man get laid more than any single man on BSG? He manages to get it on even when there’s a crisis! I love it! But I did not love, the angelic six, since when are they angelic? I miss Gina.
I still think that perhaps Ellen and the FF are meant to be protecting humanity from itself.
A
February 9th, 2009 at 12:47 am
@AsgardBlack no one knows what happened but it was 2000 years ago.
@ltya – I had hoped that the Cylons would have developed more independence/anatomy but alas at this point they are merely followers of Roselin/fleet.
If anyone needs proff that Cylons need air please watch the Face of the Enemy episodes in which an 8 systematically kills everyone on board a Rapter to conserve air.
February 9th, 2009 at 4:25 am
Well, the good news is that our heroes rock hard! An exhilarating episode from start to finish.
The bad news: The frakin’ ship is breaking apart! Someone above asked “why would they show those cracks in such detail?” . . . the answer is . . . it’s going to be important. There is a saying in the theatre: “Don’t show a gun in the first act if you aren’t going to use it by the last one.” And there you go.
All I know for sure at this point . . . the Galactica is NOT going to be intact at the end of this series! It will be space junk. But what lovely junk she is!
Oh, one last thing . . . I still need the Baltar visions answered. I mean, he had a psychic (although wrong) premonition/dream! What’s THAT all about?! Dude, if Ron lets this ball drop . . . I will be unfulfilled.
February 9th, 2009 at 4:35 am
And even though everyone has the hates on for Gaeta . . . I felt for the guy. He was being true to himself . . . and in the long run it is very possible that it could be he was right. The Cylons could turn on the fleet in the coming episodes! And then we’ll all look back and think “wow . . . Gaeta and Zarak were right!” I mean, what if they all get a hidden program switched on like Boomer did in Season 1?
I doubt it. But it’s possible!
February 9th, 2009 at 8:12 am
Certainly an interesting episode, even if it did leave me unfulfilled in certain parts. I was pretty sure they would wrap up this particular thread of story-line in this installment even though I wish they would have carried on for perhaps one more episode, but Moore manages to justify his actions by providing a “time line” by the use of the clock throughout the two episodes which means it really couldn’t have gone into a third episode, purely on logistics. He is clever ye ole Moore. The story itself was predictable but delivered in a very professional and typical Galactican fashion, and I was as pleased as all the other commentators on this thread, that Mr Lampkin had returned to make an appearance using his mixture of dry wit and observational sarcasm to brighten up a few scenes and add the extra gravitas needed to the Adama “trial”.
One particular high point of this episode was the redemption of Lieutenant Gaeta’s character. We had seen him become a bitter and twisted, a man embroiled in his own sense of self hating, lashing out at the crew of Galactica. What was really exceptionally conveyed was the sense of how Gaeta genuinely believed he was doing the right thing by initiating the coupe. He wanted to lead Galactica into his own perception of “safety” away from the danger (which he experienced in the webisodes) of what he saw as an inevitable Cylon betrayal, but he had own viewed the situation from his increasingly narrow perspective, and it took the murdering of the Quorum for him to fully realise how Zarek was only in the coupe for his own personal power craving reasons. I felt his scratching of his amputated knee was particularly poignant throughout, as that moment where he lost his leg earlier in season four in hindsight has proved to be the catalyst for the change in his personality, and as the episode progressed, we saw it became more of a burden, more of an irritation, and when in his final moments he said to Baltar (in what, let’s be honest, was a brutally brilliant interaction between the two former ‘friends’) that it had stopped itching, it was the key redemptive moment that he had recognised his mistakes, he once again was the old Gaeta, he died with dignity.
One thing though, I hope someone else does read (READ THIS PART IF ANYTHING) were the scenes involving everyone’s favourite Gaius Baltar. It was an interesting little side story to the mayhem that was the Roslin, Adama reclaiming of the fleet that provided some severe moments of interest. Firstly the “prophetic/non prophetic” vision of his is puzzling and will lead into my next point. Normally his prophetic visions and/or ability to see into the future and deal with the forthcoming issues has derived from his “Head Six” as she has normally guided him (like a guardian angel, as she says, however in this instance it was Baltar himself who had the vision, and it also proved to be wrong. Puzzling on many levels, and to be honest I have no real idea what to make of it, but leading into my second point, was I the only who thought when he was sitting on the Basestar and the six popped up to sit next to him that it was his “Head Six”? The issue of Baltar’s head six is one that has never been resolved, infact it’s become more puzzling than ever given that Baltar himself has appeared not only as a “living sixes” “guardian angel” but that he has also appeared as his own guardian angel. Another thing which provides grievance is that for the most part of season 4 (after he took the reins of his fanatical kingdom) Head Six hasn’t appeared…she guided him with what to do with the ill child of one of his followers and since hasn’t been seen. My initial reaction when I saw this six, given she looked completely different to all previous ones with her brown hair and long flowing dress, was I thought his Head Six had “evolved” so to speak. I thought it was his “Head Six” in a more angelic form, given that Baltar was getting closer to fufilling his predetermined god ordained destiny…we don’t know for sure seeing as he was the only one to see her, but it seems that she infact was simply another six. Which in turn leaves the question, Why the prophetic vision? Why was it wrong? Why have we not seen Head Six? Why was he his own “Head Six” in that one particular episode with Tori? and How many times can a person use the phrase “Head Six” in one paragraph?
February 9th, 2009 at 9:06 am
Mary McDonnell’s deliverance of the “No! Not ever, do you hear me!!?” lines were an epitome to Churchill’s “We shall never surrender” speech. I could not listen to it without a shiver running up my spine, it had such power that could only be delivered by someone with utter flames rising inside them. It instilled courage and sheer admiration for Roslin to all those around her who heard it.
Lines like these are the ones that will always remain unforgettable. They easily rank alongside Adama or Cain’s addresses made after the attack on the colonies. They can instill a fury so great in those that hear them. The enemy can be assured one way or another; they will reap the whirlwind.
So say we all!
February 9th, 2009 at 9:22 am
This may sound strange, but Zarek wasn’t a bad person. Not any worst than Adam or Roslin. (not any better mind you).
He sincerely believed in that what he was doing was right. And he was not power hungry. He saw that the Elitists (Baltar’s words not mine) were doing whatever they wanted since their world got frakked. So he wanted to do something about it. But the story is (for the most part) told from the Royalty (Baltar’s words not mine) point of view. So Adama and Roslin will always seem like the right (even when they fight against each other), whilst ANYONE else will seem like the wrong.
Go Adama!
Keep The Statue
February 9th, 2009 at 9:27 am
Great episode, and for those complaining about everything being nicely wrapped up, how do you know what’s supposed to happen in a coup?
I grew in a country that has had no less than 3 attempted-coups in my lifetime, and they all pretty much ended under 48hrs once they noticed things weren’t going as planned.
Oh, anyone notice the similarities between the execution of the Quorioum and the start of the revolt by the Cylcons on the ships?
February 9th, 2009 at 9:56 am
What was up with the computer pad in the FTL/Engine room needing Tyrol to login? I didn’t think that the computers on BSG were networked. Does this mean that everytime someone is added/deleted from the autorization list, people walk around delivering the update? How is it that Tyrol did not know any other passwords? The guy has been chief of the deck forever and I am sure that he must have picked up some other user ids and passwords in that time. I get the feeling that this scene could have been cut completely. Also, were there no simple control wires he could have cut? Did he really need to dis-assemble the ship with his bare hands?
February 9th, 2009 at 11:18 am
CB2001 says “Well, I can say, we got to see more of the insides of Galactica than any other episode before it.”
LOVED THAT TOO – WAY COOL!
Unitron says “It’s quite ironic that Zarek, the ‘Will-of-the-People Freedom Fighter’ himself, who railed against the ‘dictatorship’ of the Roslin administration, was the one who tried to destroy democracy” by killing the Quorum “It just goes to show you that he was out for himself all along.”
Good point. Zarek = Hypocrite! But you have to admit, he never wavered. One MUST give him that.
Damien says “Oh, anyone notice the similarities between the execution of the Quorioum and the start of the revolt by the Cylcons on the ships?”
No, I didn’t. Good point. When Natalie had the centurians kill the Cavil’s bunch, however, it was just a message and not murder, because they ressurected immediately. No harm done.
Other points:
I agree Ellen downloaded when she died of poison….she’s with Cavil. Maybe it DID take a while for a new body for her to grow? Not a bad theory. I like the idea that she’s in charge, because she certainly can’t have any love for Cavil (for what he did to Tighe and forcing her to have sex with him). I suspect we will go back in time with what’s been happening with Ellen.
Best Returning Character Award: The nominees are: Conner, Lt. Kelly, Romo, the pen. I vote…..THE PEN!
I have no problem with this coup being cleaned up in one episode. Things like that DO happen fast. We collectively can now get on with the big questions. And there are lots of them, so it’s good we now have the time.
The ‘Grand Old Lady’ …..makes me so sad she’s breaking apart. I have an enormous attachment to vehicles, houses, so I really feel this hard. I don’t want this. We knew from Day 1 it was coming, though.
I loved the way Tyrel’s hands bled when he took apart the FTL.
I hope Seelix and Racetrack and Conner etc. get airlocked. Heartless of me…I guess.
Kara just couldn’t leave Anders to die. There is nothing more to it than that in terms of her feelings for him…so far. (I hate to use the term, but I guess you could say I am a little bit of a Kara-Lee ’shipper’ as they say – closet until now haha.)
Tory still had feelings for the humans in the fleet. She is not used to leading. It was arrogance when she said “I’m done taking orders from you” to Roslin, and it was also getting back at Roslin for chewing her out about sleeping with Baltar. She knew Roslin should be listened to and she let her lead.
February 9th, 2009 at 11:19 am
If anyone has any more BSG T-shirt ideas, please add. Thank you.
Keep the statue
Frack you
Do your job, Chief
Sometimes you have to roll the hard six
What do you hear? (on front) Nothing but the rain (on back)
Grab your gun and bring the cat in
There are 13 models (on the front) I’m number 13 (on back)
So say we all
I’M NOT A CYLON!
Just swimming in the stream
Weapons free!
February 9th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
Gaeta’s constant fidgeting with Adama’s Admiral’s insignia was brilliant. To me, it said that Gaeta subconsciously knew that the mutiny would fail and Adama would come for him. It was interesting that, although he usurped Adama’s position, he never referred to himself as the Admiral or the Commander (only Zarek did) and in fact he continued to address Adama as “Admiral” even after Adama had been arrested. Gaeta knew there was really only one commander of Galactica and Admiral of the fleet, and it sure wasn’t him.
February 9th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
Some more t-shirt ideas:
-Frak! (front) Motherfrak! (back)
-I dream of bleach blondes in red dresses.
-Toasters get me hot.
-I’m projecting you are aren’t here.
-Leave me alone or I’ll stab you with a pen.
-I have a plan.
-I lived on New Caprica and all I got was this frakking t-shirt.
-When in doubt, follow Baltar. He’s good at surviving.
-Re-elect Baltar.
And just to reiterate my favorite personal design from last week: Rudy’s face with the words “razzle frazzle…grr..arrgh…do your job…” on the front.
February 9th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
what’s with the t-shirt ideas? is someone planning on making a batch? i’d actually like to see a vintage looking BSG text logo or the insignia logo on a tee.
February 9th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
So, I just saw the trailer for next weeks episode. It looks like Ellen is back. do the other cylons have a backup hub? or was Ellen downloaded after she was poisoned on New Caprica? and if the final five can still resurect, does that mean that Sam will be okay, even if his bullet wound kills him? and if Ellen resurrected back in season 3, where is she? does cavil know? and if he does, why wouldn’t he want D’anna or the others to know? also, if the other cylons have a back up hub, does that mean the rebel cylons are still resurecting too? is Natalie possibly still alive? maybe Ellen ressurected on the cylon homeworld? do they have backup final fives? and will she be pissed to find out that her husband knocked up another cylon while she was away?also, maybe Ellen is an older version of number six? the actresses look similar, they used that in “Escape Velocity”. maybe it was foreshadowing?
…..
yeah, I have lots of questions…. and I know that you guys don’t have any answers….. yet.
February 9th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
I’m wondering why Zarek chose to bring Gaeta into Colonial One to witness the dead members of the Quorom? I think Zarek knew from the start that Gaeta was far from the ideal partner in crime….but he had to take what he could when he could. Maybe he was hoping that witnessing all of the bodies would harden him enough for the rest of the revolution? It seemed to backfire, though, as Gaeta showed he didn’t have the ’stomach’ that Zarek did to kill innocent civilians and this instance appeared to truly sicken Gaeta.
Also, during Adama’s ‘trial’ it seemed like Adama was on the verge of breaking down again when he heard of Tigh’s (fake) death. It must have taken all he could muster to maintain his composure. First, he has a complete mental breakdown a few weeks ago when he learns of Tigh’s coming out as a Cylon –so his best friend is sort of dead to him in a human way…and now he has to deal with his still best friend Tigh dying as a Cylon–all while keeping up the stone face in front of Gaeta and Zarek!
Wow, wow, wow!
February 9th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
MORE T-SHIRT IDEAS-
1. A picture of Gaeta stabbing Baltar and a caption below that says
“THE PEN IS MIGHTIER THAN THE SWORD”
2. A Pic of a mushroom cloud and the caption
“HAVE A BLAST ON CAPRICA!! (Paid for by the Caprica Tourism Society)”
February 9th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
If you’re gonna do T-shirts with “I am not a Cylon!” on them, I’ld like to point out one thing:
Everyone who ever uttered that phrase is, in fact, a Cylon. Think about it: Doral, Cavil, and Tyrol are the ones I can think of off the top of my head, but I know I can’t think of anyone who ever said it who wasn’t.
February 9th, 2009 at 7:16 pm
This one is for Matt-
ALL YOUR BATTLESTARS AM BELONG TO US!!!
We need that to counter your Basestar Shirt.
February 9th, 2009 at 7:24 pm
“The ‘Grand Old Lady’ …..makes me so sad she’s breaking apart. I have an enormous attachment to vehicles, houses, so I really feel this hard. I don’t want this. We knew from Day 1 it was coming, though.”
Tootie: I have the same curse. I name everything – my guitars, my cars… (I’m currently driving the Defiant.) I even had a plane come alive in my hands when I was trying to stretch a glide with a sick engine.
I can imagine Galactica bringing the fleet to a habitable solar system (maybe ours? maybe off to creat their own Earthly paridise?) then jumping away to lead Cavil’s forces astray. Seeing the Promised Land but never entering…? I am still thinking that the “Gray Lady” is the dying leader, not necessarily Roslin or Adama.
February 9th, 2009 at 8:15 pm
i’m gonna try and whip up a nice BSG insignia logo in Illustrator. I wasn’t too keen on the BSG Pegasus logo I found through Brands of the World website…it looked kinda sloppy. is there anything you’d like to see added to the insignia, or should I stick with the original? I was thinking of adding something like the show’s time on the air…like 2004-2009. I don’t want it to seem cheesy though
February 9th, 2009 at 9:11 pm
The whole Baltar/Kara thing still perplexes me — it has from the very beginning of the series with Baltar. No one has every answered to my satisfaction how Baltar lives and Caprica dies. Here is a very (long)shot at the yin and the yang of Starbuck and Baltar.
Starbuck and Baltar are protectors of the Final Five. The FF plus Baltar and Starbuck together equal seven — coincidentally the other seven Cylons. Perhaps we will find out that Baltar and Starbuck are the original version of Hera. Starbuck the fighter warrior that protects them and Baltar the brain warrior that enlightens them. Cylons always must come to consensus on a decision. Perhaps these original NOW 14 beings could not come to consensus on a decision, hence they made a decision to split (or one of them made the decision to split away from the other seven).
This must make some sense. Baltar must have died in the nuclear blast from the first show. We have seen that cylon models can be killed by human hand (whether it be of the toaster variety or the first time Adama killed Leoben). Therefore 6 must have died, must not have been able to protect Baltar from the blast and Baltar MUST have died. Then Boomer’s Raptor just HAPPENS to show up where Baltar is on the whole Caprica and picks him up to transport him to BSG. Therefore we are looking at some sort of resurrected Baltar and he is somehow connected with the Cylons. This must be explained before the show is over.
We know for a fact we are looking at a resurrected Starbuck. We see her dog tags. That is irrefutable evidence. Therefore Starbuck is dead. Long live Starbuck because she can resurrect also. We are looking at a resurrected Starbuck.
The only beings with resurrection capability are the Cylons. Therefore Starbuck and Baltar must have some association with the Cylons. Starbuck was able to make the Cylon raider fly. No one else could get it to fly. Starbuck has some “special affinity” to Cylon technology — because she comes from Cylon technology of some sort. Perhaps it is an offshoot of the technology that fuses a human with the Basestars we see. We know Basestars use some sort of humanoid to help its decision making (human brains are significantly faster than computers in decision making — perhaps the computers tie into this innate capability of the human condition to speed up their decision making).
Speaking of the humanoids in the Basetars, I believe we get insight as to where they come from in Razor. I would not be surprised if we find out that Lucy (Helena Caine’s younger sister that mysteriously vanishes towards the end of Razor in the midst of a Cylon attack) is found out later to be one of the female humanoids housed inside of one of the Basestars.
Back to the affinity of Six for Baltar. The Cylons know of the Baltar connection. It is why the seek him out. Because he is of some sort of Cylon connection, he is able to connect with a “Head” character (of course this does not explain Roslin’s connection with a Head character — I am still working all of this out!). Still, the tight relationship between Caprica/Natalie/all of the 6s make some sense in this light.
Similarly the affinity of Leoben for Starbuck (I am using Starbuck instead of Kara Thrace because kickass Starbuck is back and I think she has a military / war connection to the end of the show). Leoben continually connects with Starbuck. He believes (knows) there is something special about her. What was curious was how he did an about face when confronted with Starbuck’s burned body. Still trying to figure that out.
Finally to a different topic — that of Gaeta. Gaeta is our first really significant character to die. By that I mean one that has been with us from the beginning that has had significant story arcs written for the character. I love Dualla (a hottie!) and tolerated (barely) Cally. However, neither of them had significant arcs written specifically for them…until they died. Even when they died, it was only for that show. Gaeta on the other hand has played a significant role for the entire series. Remember when Adama challenged him “CAN YOU PLOT THAT JUMP?” (meaning can he plot a jump over the red line in the mini-series — something that had never been done before in Colonial history). Gaeta pulls it off. Gaeta builds a network that prevents the Cylons from hacking inside of the BSG network so they could figure out the two-way jump (remember that one?). Time after time Gaeta does something technically, scientifically or politically that is significant to plot continuation. He is the provider of information on New Caprica. He implicates Baltar through a lie that is naked to the viewer. He “proves” Baltar was not a cylon sympathizer in season one (remember the picture that seemingly showed Baltar altering tapes that Gaeta “proved” was a fake?).
I think the death and passing of Gaeta along with the death of Zarek signals a break with the course of BSG to date and we are entering new unchartered territory — separate from the original BSG (of course, we have never been too close to that) and separate from the mostly feel good course or hope for a happy ending that may have been contemplated up to this time for this BSG. I think the death of Zarek (five letters) and Gaeta (five letters) was well thought of and is a deliberate break towards a very dark end time for the series.
This is a frakkin awesome series. Natt and Matt, rock on!
February 9th, 2009 at 9:33 pm
Yay… I got mentioned on the BSGCast… now I am famous!
February 9th, 2009 at 9:36 pm
You rock Darth Razor!
February 9th, 2009 at 9:52 pm
I know that this is not episode related, but it comes from what I noticed in one of the commercials….
I put in my DVD to rewatch “Six of One” from the Season 4.0 Boxset. And one of the commercials that come up is the Season 4.5 trailer for the show. As I was watching it, I noticed something about one of the captions. It talks about the fate of humanity and “Her Children”. Now, granted, I know of artistic license for using words… But I began thinking, “Shouldn’t it be “Humanity and their children?” And then I started to wonder, “What if it was on purpose?” If that’s the case… Who in the world is the woman in which “her children” is spoken of in the commercial?
Oddly enough, I had a post thought after I began writing this. The post thought I had was in relation to something the Hybrid in “Faith” said, twice. “The children of the one reborn will find a land of their own.” (or something close to that). So, maybe there’s a connection? Just a thought.
Anyways, has anyone else noticed this?
February 9th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
Good episode, not as great as the last one though.
Some ideas:
Tyrol: The tear he noticed did not lead to a whole in the metallic and layered structure of the ship. So NO, he cannot live without air.
Anders: He is going to live, not saying that it shouldn’t be possible for him to live, but who knows what near death experiences he could be having next episode.
Which Leads to Ellen: I am convinced that she will not be resurrected next episode, especially the traditional way. I think that clip is probably from someone’s dream or vision. BSG has a habit of making things imagined seem as if they are really gonna happen in the episode. ALSO: why would anyone think she would be with the Cavils, she can’t stand the Cavils! There will be answers next episode, but not the ones everyone is looking for.
The missing “7″ model cylon: I had an epiphany that it could be the Basestar’s Hybrid. Just a thought.
Gaeta and Zarek: there final moment was a little off to me: I understood Gaeta’s contentment, but not Zarek’s, I would be pissed as hell if I were him.
*I wonder what card the Cylons are going to play now that they followed through and helped Roslin. Will they request a seat on the quorum and become the 13th member of the quorum? Hmm, 13th tribe?
Is it just me, or is Hera lookin about age 4 right now, instead of two? Now that she can talk, I wonder if they will have her say anything eerily connected to the fate of humanity.
Kara and Anders: As much as Kara loves Lee, she cant let go of Anders. I am convinced that the girl Anders sang too in the past was Kara. I do not think that makes her a cylon, but the fact that she was able to come back in the way that she did, means that she was connected to that planet in some way.
February 9th, 2009 at 10:42 pm
I am sticking to the theory that the FF are meant to guard humanity from itself. They have been revealed to be the strongest fighters, and leaders of humanity; against the cylons from Day 1. They are now alienated as cylons, and humanity is on its’ own. That’s why Ellen says there’s hope for you yet–she means humanity. We’ll see if I’m right
Rekka:
As for Kara and Anders: They are not soulmates, Lee and Kara are bonded in a way that she and Anders are not. Anders & Kara have always been better as close friends, than soulmates. She has always loved Sam, and besides the other 4, Sam has no one to talk to, and he was loyal to her, when everyone thought she was a cylon. It would make sense he would tell her his secrets. But I agree w/you Rekka that Anders sang that song to Kara. However, I think that she was either unrequited love, or a goddess whom he created a love song for as many people have done over time. I think that is why they are not, or ever will be together as soulmates. He said in the first epi that he sang it for a woman he loved, and Tory says that they were all there. Starbuck was not mentioned, therefore what she is, is still unknown.
Cannot wait until Friday!
A
February 9th, 2009 at 10:59 pm
President Roslin was never elected. When Baltar was going to win the presidency, Roslin tried to steal the election. The vice president who was elected is dead. The quorum is dead. My idea for new graffiti for the walls of galactica: Frak Democracy.
February 9th, 2009 at 11:01 pm
With the Caprica DVD out before the series, the last shoe has fallen.
The Caprica series takes place after this series and not before. The hidden surname of Adama is because the family blends into the background in the hopes of being left alone. The use of cylon/human cylon technology is probably the issue. Likely the cylons do not survive the BSG series and the technology is “boxed” and lost. The Adamas have some stigma from something the very last episode will reveal. Bring back the technology is a problem but it explains why a fully human cylon “Zoe?” can be made right off the bat.
If it happenned before and will happen again then the Caprica series does follow after the BSG series just as it preceded it. This is the final mind-frak. It also allows the Caprica series to fade away before production without the fans going to nuts.
As I said before, this doesn’t end well (even if Starbuck is in a Cinderella dress at the end).
February 9th, 2009 at 11:52 pm
I thought I was the only one who thought that it was ironic that Zarek was a revolutionary who faught for justice and democracy but when given the chance he initiates a coup, kills the quorum and become the shortest serving dictator ever. What a douche. lol Anyway, as wierd as it may seem, here’s a prediction that made in December after watching every episode again, that shocked the hell out me when part of it came true. A big part of it relies on the cyle of time.
Past:
4000 BA: 13th Tribe leaves Kobol and builds temple of 5
3600 BA: Pythia Prophesizes attacks
3000 BA: 13th Tribe sends beacon to Kobol for info (Maintaining diplomatic relations)
2000 BA: 13th Tribes attacks Colonial forces. Colonials leader wins with serpents ten and two. Later the 13th Tribe attacks Kobol. Someone (terran-cylon) helps tribes. Colonials leave Kobol for Colonies and bomb Earth. They later settle on Colonies, with the final five among them being reincarnated somehow.
the cylce continues:
Cylon Priests create 7 cylon models and somehow wipe their memories of it.
War between Cylons and Humans
Cylons leave Colonies for their own world (supposed to maintain relations)
Cylons attack colonies, Colonials shoot back (in a limited ways) and the colonials leave for a new world
Eventually they’ll settle together somewhere.
Theory: The humans start off on Kobol, worshipping the Gods. However some humans begin to worship a single God. These humans go to war with the other humans, the Thirteenth tribe, leave Kobol for freedom of religion to worship God in peace, led by five priest, the final five. On the way they build the temple of the 5. Somewhere along the line they develope ressurection technology. Since their still in contact with each other, eventually a war erupts between tribes and Earth. They nuke each other with Earth destroyed and all but the Five Priest surviving. Colonials leave Kobol for Colonies and Zeus (who/whatever he is) tells them not to come back. Priest live on colonies. Priest are reborn and create the cylons who remember god and war breaks out and they leave.
In light of new things here’s my revised theory-
Past:
4000 BA: 13th Tribe leaves Kobol and builds temple of 5
3600 BA: Pythia Prophesizes attacks
3000 BA: 13th Tribe (Now Cylons) sends beacon to Kobol for info (Maintaining diplomatic relations)
2000 BA: 13th Tribes attacks Colonial forces. Colonials leader wins with serpents ten and two. Later the 13th Tribe attacks Kobol. Someone (terran-cylon) helps tribes. Colonials leave Kobol for Colonies and bomb Earth. They later settle on Colonies, with the final five among them being reborn aboard their ship somehow.
the cylce continues:
Humans create Cylon Centurions on their own, rebel, create the humanoid models
War between Cylons and Humans
Cylons leave Colonies for their own world
Cylons attack colonies, Colonials shoot back (in a limited ways) and the colonials leave for a new world
Eventually some of them will settle together somewhere.
Theory: The humans start off on Kobol, worshipping the Gods. However some humans begin to worship a single God. These humans go to war with the other humans, the Thirteenth tribe, leave Kobol for freedom of religion to worship God in peace, led by five priest, the final five. On the way they build the temple of the 5. Somewhere along the line they develope ressurection technology and build they’re own “Cylons” and become “Cylons” themselves. Since their still in contact with each other, eventually a war erupts between tribes and Earth. They nuke each other with Earth destroyed. The five priests must’ve held some importance because they alone were resurrected somehow, maybe as babies on a spaceship, and somehow end up on the Colonies. Anyway the Colonials leave Kobol for Colonies and Zeus (who/whatever he is) tells them not to come back. These “Final Five” are in fact “Cylons” only because they have the technological ability that the humans never developed. They’re fundamentally different because they weren’t created, they were born 2000 or so years ago. My ending offers no real info so to speak but we all know it’s going to happen, or at least we hope.
As far a Kara & Baltar goes: I think that they have to be some kind of mythological figures. Maybe a lords of kobol or something (Jesus-figure and Aurora). Not an angel though, that’s what those virtual beings are.
I’ve also got something with avatars that even if it’s not true still kind of makes sense to me :
Dualla avatar of Athena. Killed herself in despair over Earth being full of crap. Also her connection to Lee was hard to find until I remembered that Apollo’s Arrow opened Athena’s temple (LMAO)
Starbuck’s the avatar of Aurora or maybe even the goddess herself, which would explain how she could resurrect: In her temple on Earth. She’s meant to bring them the truth, to earth, to their new home, etc. To the end of their journey or whatever.
Lee Adama, avatar of Apollo. Do I really need to explain this?
Bill Adama might be the avatar of Zeus. We all know the references and his position of power.
Roslin might be the avatar of Hera. Most powerful woman in fleet and Adama’s soon to be baby-mama (j/k lol)
Love the idea about the Dying leader being Galactica. Didn’t even think about that. In which case Roslin lives and can give birth to Artemis.
February 10th, 2009 at 12:01 am
You guys really think it was Gaeta’s leg hurting that stopped? I thought it was the music stopping that he had noticed – because it ends immediately before he says that line. I guess it doesn’t make any more sense than his leg stopping hurting for some reason, but they went to great lengths to tie Gaeta into the whole Music-is-the-key plotline in mid 4.0.
February 10th, 2009 at 12:39 am
Yes it was! He looked down–he was finally free, it was so well done. I loved the song he sang that day in the infirmary, I can’t remember it exactly but I remember he seemed so out of it, and lost. Remember a part of him did die that day w/the taking of his leg-
A
February 10th, 2009 at 1:28 am
One dead person no one ever seems to mention is Zak, Adam’s other son, Lee’s younger brother once engaged to Starbuck.
If Ellen is really just and older Six and not one of the final five…hmmmm…..NO that’s just crazy talk! But, you gotta wonder why no one ever brings up Zak anymore.
February 10th, 2009 at 11:02 am
As i was gorging myself on pizza today i had a thought about Baltar’s dreams that, being the geek i am, i had to address the internet about
Im thinking that there is something to Baltar’s dreams. I think he is some sort of prophet or chosen one who gets messages from God in the form of cryptic visions. In season 2, he dreamt about Adama (or the representation of authority) taking away his child, who is born through Athena (atleast that’s what Six told him), by drowning her and later on Roslin literally drowned out her existence from the public.
Now in this episode he is dreaming that the leader of the fleet will die. Im thinking this will go along with the dying leader prophecy, which Baltar is witnessing a rather abstract representation of and had nothing to do with the Mutiny (except ofcourse being played out with the players of the current cycle and circumstance), and it doesnt necessarily have to be Adama doing the dying, just the leader of the fleet in some sense, which can mean Roslin too.
Any thoughts or shoot downs?
February 10th, 2009 at 11:17 am
You know, the moment I saw that Six talk to Baltar (with whom he ended up having sex with), I thought her hair was akwardly set like Ellen’s. At once I thought it COULD be Ellen, whose memories had been wiped once more, perhaps through resurrection when it was still possible.
But then the preview for next episode came up and I thought “Nope, that doesn’t work anymore”.
Now it makes me wonder… Which side will Ellen be on? Obviously she was reborn long before the resurrection hub was destroyed, as her death happened before the hub was destroyed. Why hasn’t she come back to Saul earlier? I have a feeling, strong feeling, that she’ll be holding a sort of gripe against him. Why? Well, I put myself in her shoes: my husband murdered me and went on to have a child with another cylon. I might want to give him a good kick in the groin following this.
As for Anders… I’m dying to know what he “remembers”. We may finally get some answers about Earth.
February 10th, 2009 at 11:40 am
Netdeco:
I think the reason that they do not mention Zak is because they have to move on. So much is happening. Ellen, however, is the final one. Although, they did mention Zak in 4×3…you know, at least once per season.
February 10th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
SPOILER, but not if you’ve seen the previews…
Ellen is clearly the guide/judge of humanity…and maybe the cylons. They have let that much out of the bag. Being ‘worthy’ of survival has been the theme from the start, and so it will be at the end.
Holy frak! A big parallel just came to me…I am quite sure RDM is about to pull a ST TNG on us! Remember, the first and last episodes of TNG had to do with Picard and the bunch proving that humanity was worthy of survival to Q? That totally looks like the same scenario that will be happening here with BSG.
I predict that if they are found worthy, the cycle breaks forever. If not, the cycle repeats.
What say you??? That is my theory.
I just can’t figure how Ellen is both participant (long ago and now) and also guide/judge???
Matt and Nat, this two episode mutiny arc is there because it’s the story. There’s no other reason. RDM is telling the story and that’s part of the story.
gaseousclay, your work on a a nice BSG insignia logo in Illustrator would be AWESOME. You could do one with and without the show’s time on the air…like 2004-2009. Too cool.
I know there are a few ways to make saying on T-shirts, but what would you guys recommend? Get them done in a T-shirt shop? Make iron-on decals on my printer? Ask Cafepress to do it? Other?
Thanks!
Tootie
February 10th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
I kinda like darthrazorback’s t-shirt idea….funny stuff. I could try my hand at designing one — any ideas what it should say or what the graphic should be? it could be something like “The Cylons (front print) maybe with a graphic of Earth or a baseship…or an obvious cylon graphic. anyone know what year BSG is supposed to take place? the back could have the date “XXXX ‘We Have A Plan’ Tour” with the nuked planets on the back (as darthrazorback mentioned).
February 10th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
tootie — regarding t-shirt printing, I would personally prefer a proper silkscreened print as they would last much longer. i’m not a fan of iron-on or DTG printing…..as far as I know companies like cafepress and zazzle do this. I would recommend going through a proper screenprinter; it’ll cost more but it would like much better and last longer imho. perhaps bsgcast.com could arrange somethign where we all vote on a design and if enough people like it they could paypal some money to mat + nat and they could print the tees. i’m open to other suggestions as well if anyone has any
February 10th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
Mario, Yeah, I know. There are just a billion theories out there and since he was once entangled with Starbuck and died, I was just surprised that hadn’t been woven into someone’s theory about her.
February 10th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
I’d personally like it if it was him that brought Starbuck back from death. People of light? Gods? Lords? I don’t know.
February 10th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
I am all hot to get some BSG t-shirts rolling!
gaseousclay says silkscreening is best, so that’s fine with me. I do want good quality, something to keep for a long time and were proudly (haha, as part of a REALLY GEEKY CLUB!)
I certainly will work with anyone on this.
I think a gauge of interest and vote on wording on this forum would be a logical step…what do Matt and Nat think?
I will ask the local silk screening place how much it costs and the minimum order etc. If there is enough agreement and interest on sayings, colours, price etc., I volunteer to get some done and mail them out. I would take a picture of a prototype first. We girls like the babydoll t-shirt style a lot. I don’t know how money would exchange hands.
If someone else has silk screening connections, let me know.
In terms of sayings, I really like:
Sometimes you have to roll the hard six (gaseousclay’s rockin logo on the back)
What do you hear? (on front) Nothing but the rain (on back) Grab your gun and bring the cat in (on back under that)
There are 13 models (on the front) I’m number 13 (on back)
So say we all (logo on back)
I’M NOT A CYLON! (logo on back)
Weapons free! (logo on back)
But I will do what the majority wants….I want one of each actually! A veritable BSG geek wardrobe!! Yes, I am getting excited!
February 10th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
I’ve thought for awhile that the You Will Know the Truth clip with the Raptor was Boomer, if only because Boomer clearly has a role left to play in the story and it won’t just involved her sleeping with Cavil (at least I certainly hope not).
The one thing that I think needs to be taken into consideration is that Ellen may have resurrected quite some time ago. After all, she died at the beginning of season three. So it would make sense that she resurrected around the same time, but obviously we weren’t show it then. They same thing happened in Downloaded, which was set quite a bit back in the overall timeline compared to the episodes around it.
How exactly resurrected Ellen would meet up with Boomer, I don’t know, but at least it does answer how she resurrected despite the Hub being destroyed. I do think the resurrection technology was the same for the Final Five and the Significant Seven. It has been confirmed that the Final Five played some role in creating the Significant Seven, which might also explain why the Hub can’t just be re-built: perhaps the Colonial Cylons themselves don’t fully understand the technology.
Also, I have to say I completely agree with Nat about Romo’s appearance. As much as I love Romo, he seems really tacked on in this storyline. Though it was worse in Sine Qua Non. I agree, he’s awesome, but he doesn’t really serve much of a purpose or seem to fit in his last two appearances.
I disagree though that the mutiny storyline took up too much time. I think they had to show the Fleet fall apart at least a bit. I guess it all makes me think a lot of the line from The Dark Knight: “the night is darkest just before the dawn.” Things had to really go to hell and then (hopefully) come back a bit to give us a satisfying (albeit brutal, in EJO’s words) ending.
February 10th, 2009 at 4:53 pm
Sorry, do not mean to hijack this thread with t-shirt jabbering!
But… I can’t click on the BSGcast Swag link on the homepage – I wanted to see what Matt and Nat have available in terms of shirts!?
Also, I checked with my local screener and they won’t do anything but big standard blocky letters and there’s an extra fee for having the back different than the front and they don’t do babydoll tshirts, yada yada yada. So, in short, I am no use with this aspect locally. Could get them done in Ottawa tho!
later, Tootie
February 11th, 2009 at 10:39 am
Six is pregnant by Col. Tigh. Ellen is supposed to come back. My bet is on Ellen being reborn as Caprica’s child, maybe growing up real fast because she’s the child of two cylons.
February 11th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
Dont buy it “the 5th still in hiding, will crawl towards the light, looking for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering”, how does that apply to Ellen?. Don’t be surprised with a show that tends to mislead and break it’s own rules, that there quite possibly could be 13 Cylons! one the others aren’t even aware of. That would also make sense for all the webisodes and valuable episode time that Gaeta has gotten, it doesnt quite fit that he would just end up dead like this.
February 11th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
I just wanted to apologize for BSGcast.com being a bit intermittent over the last 24 hours… it seems the site is getting more popular than ever and our webhost kinda freaked out when the load CRASHED the server! Hahaha…. ah, the power of BSG.
Anyway, I’m hoping the problem is fixed, and since there was a day there when no one could reliably comment on BSGcast.com the YouTube.com comments will also be considered for this week’s Fan of the Week!
Thanks for all the e-mails I got to alert me to the problem, it was about 4am when it went down, so I wouldn’t have known otherwise!
~Matt
February 11th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
James says “Dont buy it “the 5th still in hiding, will crawl towards the light, looking for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering”, how does that apply to Ellen?”
Spoilerish – re. preview with Ellen talking (five words)
It works for me. “In hiding and will crawl towards the light” means she was not known but will/has become known. If what Ellen says in the preview means what I think it does (see my post above about Star Trek’s ending and beginning episodes…and SPOILER: Ellen says in the preview “There’s hope for you yet” SPOILER OVER), she is looking for redemption for all of them (human and cylon)
…and ‘the howl of terrible suffering’ can certainly refer to all the terrible suffering of this mutiny, or the whole genocide-war.
Said another way, we have all been stuck on the 5th looking for PERSONAL redemption, but we have been given a clear hint through Ellen’s words that it’s about redemption for EVERYONE. Which ties into what the show has always been about, being worthy of survival.
My bet is on: if they are found worthy, the cycle ends. If not, it repeats. Again.
February 11th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
hello everybody
i love the t-shirt idea. i had some ideas too.
front- 6 “i’m with her. back- 8 “she’s with me”
2 centurions. old model says “Who the frack are you?” new model says” i’m the new guy. where all the white models at?”
Hellen 6 and Saul. Hellen says WHO DAT IS? Saul says THAT’s JUSY MY BABY MAMA.
FRACK YOU FRAKKING FRACK!!!!
pic. of Balter and head Six saying “I’m gonna stay in here until you take out the trash!!!”
a group of centurions standing around Cavil at a table with a bunch of tequila shots “DUDE! YOU’RE A FRAKKIN MACHINE!!!!”
4 skin jobs sitting in a resurrection tank 1 says O.K. WHO DID THAT?!!
6 waking up in a resurrection tank and Balter standing there saying “WHERE DID YOU PUT MY RAPTOR KEYS?”
Baltar in bed with a 6 and another 6 says “WHO’S THIS BITCH?!!”
Centurions on Galactica with marines’ guns pointed at them and they say “WHOA DUDES! WE JUST HEARD THERE WAS A WICKED PARTY GOIN ON!”
a raptor jump starting a raider ” BUY CAPRICAN.”
Centurions going through a car wash “A CLEAN CENTURION IS A HAPPY CENTURION.”
a Centurion standing in front of the frige. ” O.K. WHO DRANK MY LAST QUART OF MOTOR OIL??”
D” Anna standing mad with her arms folded in front of 2 Centurions. 1 centurion says ” DUDE, YOU TALK TOO MUCH!”
Hera holding a diaper says ” I HAVE SECRET.”
a skin job zombie coming out of a resurrection tank ” DAWN OF THE DEAD”
Cavil coming out of a resurrection tank ” I KNEW I SHOULDN’T HAVE HAD THAT BORRITTO!! ”
D’ Anna says to Tori Who are you? Tori says ” I’m the new girl. You must be the old girl.”
two centurions playing paint ball and Hellen says ” YOU BOYS QUIT THAT BEFORE ON YOU LOSES AN EYE!!!”
February 11th, 2009 at 3:37 pm
that last one , you get the gist.
February 11th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
sorry i’m on a roll
6 yelling as a centurion’s walking away ” WHY WON’T YOU TALK TO ME?!!”
Centurion tossing a frizzbie to a RAIDER ” CYLON’S BEST FRIEND”.
Centurion on stage at the Laugh Factory ” IS THIS THING ON?”
3 Centurions standing and a 6 walks by one says ” DANM SHE FINE!!” another says ” I’M GONNA HIT THAT!” the last one says ” GIRRRLL NICE SHOES!”
Tori and Tyrol in a raider looking at the destroyed resurrection ship and TORI says ” CAN YOU FIX THAT?”
Tyrol looking at the crack on Galactica and says ” ANYBODY GOT ANY DUCT TAPE? ”
Saul and 6 holding their baby and 6 says “WE SHOULD NAME HIM JEAN LUC.”
the crew standing on destroyed earth and Saul says ” A LITTLE PAINT AND SHE’LL BE GOOD AS NEW.”
Saul and Ellen standing on ruined earth and Hellen says ” WE CAN’T STAY HERE. YOU KNOW HOW RADIATION MAKE’S ME GASSY.”
Cylon Raider bumper sticker says ” MY OTHER RIDE IS A BASE SHIP.”
Saul Hellen Leoben and D’Anna in a raider and Leobin says ‘D’ANNA WON’T STOP TOUCHING ME!” and Saul says ” IF YOU TWO DON’T STOP I SWEAR I’M GONNA PULL THIS RAIDER OVER AND KICK BOTH YOUR ASSES!!!”
the fleet find the real earth and their first contact is SG-1.
February 11th, 2009 at 5:18 pm
I’m still in shock about winning fan of the week XD The funny thing is, that it’s me getting thrown out the airlock in those videos LOL. And as for asking to win, I just wanted to end on a funny note lol i’m actually amazed i won.
While the episodes were great, and Geata getting executed was heartbreaking. (I love Alessandro Juliani, he was awesome in Death Note). However, looking at it from a writers point of view. It seems a little bit weird that he didn’t carry on the Mutiny story arc a bit more. I personally think that would have been a better place to take the story, alluding back to all the idea that maybe the Cylons woulnd’t need to destroy whats left of humanity, they’d do that themselves. I think that they could have had all the main characters escape to the Basestar and have the rest of the plot take place there, while the minor characters on Galactica struggle to make something out with what’s left of the fleet.
Anyway if Ellen Tigh is back in the next episode, so much for my theory about there being no Final Cylon character development in BSG. Though i would still hold out on the idea that they make an appearance in Caprica.
However Matt & Nat, i think your concerns about the plot being rushed into the last six episodes can be put to rest, when you take into account that the final episode is supposedly roughly the same length as the mini-series. So you can fit alot of story into that time (and if i’m right and the Final Five development happens in Caprica then shouldn’t be too hard)
But again my theory is that the reason they CAN fit all of the remaining plot questions into the last 6 episodes is because they are all essentially tied together, possibly like this
Okay well let’s start with the ‘Angel’ characters like Head Baltar, Head Six and Head Leoboen. Now Head Six has always said that she was Angel sent by God to guide Baltar, the same goes for the other characters. But just what are they? Well I was watching an interview with James Callis a while back, and he pitched the idea that maybe the head characters are visions from a Parrallel Universe, which i thought was intresting.
However one of the things that you have to remember about BSG is that the original series was inspired by Mormonism. I think that has had a subtle influence on the re-imagined series as well. So in Mormonism, when you die (i don’t know the full details) you become resurected as a God like figure to rule over another planet. Well maybe, the Baltar/Caprica Six/Starbuck were seeing visions of these characters, in a parrallell world where the characters in BSG have already ascended to this level of God-likeness, hence the calling themselves of angels. And maybe they had a leader who was the most powerful of them all- Zeus/The Cylon God.
Maybe these Angels, came to our universe at some point in the past and visited Kobol. And for a time had some kind of influence over it. Possibly trying to spread the one-god religion (worshipping the leader of these angels) the cylons worship among the Kobol humans. However something obviously went wrong and we end up with Polythesistic religion that the Colonials worship. Now if you watch one of the deleted Scenes from Season 2, Roslin explains that the exodus of the tribes was triggered by some sort of dispute bettween the Gods. Perhaps the Leader Angel/Zeus/The Cylon God was enraged by the fact that his minions were being worshipped (because they were false idols as Head-Six suggessted). So maybe he influenced the humans to create the 13th Tribe Cylons, resulting in a war that caused the Exodus of the tribes. (All this has happened before)
So what about Starbuck, in terms of what she is or what she has become? Well assuming I’m right about the Parrallell Universe, I’m going to go with the idea that she is an Angel/Lord of Kobol (i know this isn’t my idea, but allow me to expand). Now if we stick to the roots of hard science for a moment, it’s a known fact that matter is never truly destroyed, it only gets reformatted into energy or other matter. So maybe the Starbuck from OUR universe had to die, in order for the alternative universe Starbuck to come over (possibly resulting in memory loss), and maybe the same for Baltar too if he died during the nuking of Caprica?
Earth? Well as I said before i think that it’s possible they were bombed by the other 12 tribes, and as a revenge attack the Final Five Resurrected into the Colonies and ifiltrated the corporations and manipulated them into creating more Cylons based on the desgins of the 13th tribe (and will happen again
) This would also explain the religious connection the Final Five have- being the ones who created the New Cylons as we shall call them, would put them on a same level as importance as the Angel/Lord of Kobol/Cylon god who created them right?
So what does this mean for Hera? Well Head-Six has always said that she was REALLY hers and Baltars child. And again if we go back to the Relgious aspects of BSG, does that mean Head-Six is an analogy for the Angel Gabriel sending the messaih to Helo and Sharon? Similarly to Jesus (who according to the Bible was both completly human and both completly God), that would make Hera Human, Cylon AND Angel/Lord of Kobol. So does that make Hera a Messaih? The one who will END the war bettween Cylons and Humans? (Hopefully without sacrficing herself because that would just be…well pretty evil on the part of Ron Moore.) This idea sort of ties with the Last Supper photo (which I have in large print hanging off my bedroom wall
), which features Head-Six in the spot where Jesus would have been in the original painting. I mean, I suppose they should have really had Hera there is she is the Messaih, but then again it would look really weird to have a two year old standing ontop of a table looking looking like an Angel child XD.
What I’m trying to say is that it might not nessicarrily have to be a mad dash to explain the rest of the plot:
Earth could easily be explained through some kind of vision (possibly like the one Anders is having in the next episode)
The Final Cylons could be explained in Caprica, or through Ellen
Starbuck/Baltar could be explained by the head characters (although has anyone else noticed how we’ve not seen them since Earth turned out to be nothing?)
Hera maybe the big important character for the final episode
*pant*pant*out of breath*
Long post is long lol
Well I guess it’s too much to ask to win two weeks in a row XD i’m kidding
February 11th, 2009 at 5:29 pm
From the desk of Roger the Alien
I have come to the conclusion with my years of non-medical knowledge that Gaius Baltar is what I’m calling a “SIXAHOLIC”. This would explain why Baltar once again had to have sex with yet another Six the poor man is just compelled to jump the bones of every number Six he lay eyes on. I’m afraid there is no cure but then again if u where a SIXAHOLIC would u like to be cured!
. Its not all that bad after all Baltar dose have his best epiphanies after having sex with a Six.
February 11th, 2009 at 7:44 pm
In all honesty, I am perfectly all right with this mutiny arc even with the amount of episodes we have left remaining. I feel like its been hinted since season one that all of these perplexing questions are related, so with the return of Ellen and the revelation of Anders, I think we have a lot to look forward to in the way that the answers are rolled out.
February 12th, 2009 at 11:52 am
Another T-Shirt idea….
“Show me your Telencephalic Inhibitor, and I’ll show you mine.”
February 12th, 2009 at 1:10 pm
Zarek had been hinting to everyone that he was a far better leader than anyone else in the fleet. Gaeta had anger issues about losing his leg and the Cylons made a great target for his pain. The mutiny was inevitable as was its downfall.
I am not terribly comfortable with the parallel universe idea suggested be Grandkaijudomaster to explain Starbuck’s reappearance. Being cloned on Earth is more palatable, though still not very satisfying. It’s too neat. Easier to accept in this universe would be if Starbuck’s memories were downloaded into a generic skinjob. The skinjob was then manipulated to look like Kara. She would then be a one of a kind with a Cylon body but human memories. A parallel universe is just a little too Star Trekish for this story arc.
February 12th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
Tee-shirt idea: I am the 13th model on the front. Then, along the back where the backbone would be, have the Cylon red eye appearing to glow from under the fabric.
February 12th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
dont know whether this has already been stated but i have a theory
chief saw a crack in the ship right so what if the dying leader isnt roslin but is in fact the galatica itself which will take them to a new homeland before finally conking out,
also did anyone notice the michael jackson joke they threw in when zarek is talking to racetrack the joke goes:
michael jackson is on a plane with a bunch of kids (yes i know ridiculous)
the engine fails and the pilot runs over to jackson and says “we have two parachutes one for you and one for me”
“what about the children”
“f**k the children”
“is there time”
and what i heard zarek say was
“frak the children”
“is there time” it just made me laugh and plus
racetrack was there yay! after kat and dees departure she is now my fav character which means they will probably kill her off but they better not… or i will be sad
February 12th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
Question for Matt & Nat – Has the BSG series been turned into movie-novels yet? I didn’t see any at Amazon.com. Do you think there is a market for such a book? Think Ron might be interested in an author?
February 12th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
Just a quick little note I wish to make…to those who are seemingly unsure (even though I realise it’s NOT the majority) in regards to what actually happened with Gaeta. Gaeta as well know has been on a downward spiral post New Caprica, undoubtedly because of the guilt (that we now know he obviously suffered from) he had in inadvertently getting his colleagues killed. This was notable to us as the viewing public when good-boy Gaeta sold out probably the closest thing he had to a friend pre-New Caprica in Gaius Baltar, when he took to the stand. Gaeta’s leg proves to be a physical manifestation of the condition that Gaeta is in mentally, he’s falling apart. Gaeta genuinely believes what he’s doing is the right thing, he hopes to launch this coup of his in as formal a manner as you can get and provide resolution for those he believes think like he does. Unfortunately he sides with a man who thinks his idea of a coup is more of a picnic in the park than an actual revolution. Gaeta finds himself becoming more and more conflicted as the episode transpires, and his leg begins to itch more and more throughout. The itching of his leg is synonymous with the disparate Gaeta, the Gaeta who has lost what himself in self loathing, it’s almost like a tick for the mentally unbalanced. Gaeta however redeems himself in the final moments of the episode with what the oxymoronically subtle yet blatant “WAKE UP GAETA” that Zarek yells at him when he wants him to launch the alert fighters after Tyrol takes the FTL offline. Ironically, Gaeta does wake up as his old self and sees that what’s he been doing, even though he still thinks he’s correct in his views, was done in completely the wrong manner resulting in telling his men to stand down. The scene with Baltar and Gaeta is incredibly touching, with Baltar acknowledging he knows who the real Gaeta is, the one who used to spend time with him on a regular basis in the early episodes practically worshipping the ground he walked on for his superior scientific knowledge. Gaeta’s leg ceasing to itch in the final scene, embodies how he has finally come back full circle to being the old Gaeta…how he accepts his fate with a mix of fear and pride. The itching of his leg has mirrored the fret and anger that has been taking place with the mind of the Lieutenant and with that internal conflict at peace he dies in peace.
I feel left out on the t-shirt ideas, and can’t really think of many at present…
- a picture of Katee Sackhoff and Dirk Benedict claiming underneath “NOT A DIFFICULT CHOICE IS IT”
- “NO MORE MR. NICE GAIUS”
- simple message “WANT TO SPOOL WITH MY FTL?”
February 12th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
Hey Matt and Natt, Just thought I’d let you know that for the past few days the site has been freezing out and I can’t access it. Then it suddenly re eappears again. I don’t know if it’s my computer just being a dick or if there’s a glitch in the site. I thought I’d let you guys know just encase it’s not on my end.
February 12th, 2009 at 7:44 pm
*head lightbulb* I just had an idea for a T-shirt. How about the final five with the Jokers (from the Dark Knight) make-up around their mouths and the Caption reads:
WHY SO CYLON?
Huh?
LOL just a thought
February 12th, 2009 at 8:45 pm
I just had a thought about Pvt. Chaffee…
Roger Chaffee was one of the crewmen killed during the Apollo 1 launchpad accident. (O2 atmosphere & spark. BAD fire.) Unlike the rest of the astronaut core, Roger Chaffee was not a test pilot. As such, the rest of the astronauts were a little wary of him. Virgil (Gus) Grissom (mission commander and 2nd American in space) was asked to find out a little bit more about him. Gus came back to the corp and said that he was okay.
It turns out that Roger Chaffee was did low level recon over Cuba during the Cuban Missle Crisis.
How does this apply?
PVT. Chaffee was doing recon on the fire, then stepped in the way to save the Admiral. An honorable death. Just like Astronaut Chaffee.
Even if it wasn’t intended, it was a nice tip of the hat.
February 12th, 2009 at 11:29 pm
vice-versed:rock on, I said the same thing! It’s good to see that great minds think alike
I thought it was brilliant how they writes used Gaeta’s constant, uncontrollable itching as a metaphor for his pain. It was so like a moquito bite–the more you itch itch it the worse it gets–just like Gaeta and Zarek did by aggravating or more like Zarek, to take advantage of the confusion, and despair on the ship.
Tomorrow night is going to be great!
A
February 12th, 2009 at 11:43 pm
Ok… so.. I really don’t feel like reading every single comment listed above.. but I heard an interview on CBC radio a little while ago with Jamie Bamber.. and he raised an interesting point about the Quarum (this interview was conducted pre-Quarum Slaughter House) where he voiced his own personal concerns about the Quarum.. his principle annoyance was with the Quarum members representing the colonies which no longer exist. He said he thought the Quarum should be made up of representatives from the different ships.. which makes sense considering the different needs of the individual vessels. I’m hoping that we see something like that emerge now instead of going back to the original way things were, because I agree with Bamber… even if we only have a few more episodes left, I think it’s important that we see the final humans throw off the shackles of their old lives and start a new beginning, where ever that new beginning turns out to be.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:10 am
I am an action and suspense fan but I can appreciate a good story and drama.
When I learned that this show was a reimagined version of BSG I took all that into consideration and tried not to compare this one to the old BSG.
I overlooked Boomer, Starbuck, Adama, and other characters were not the same old characters carrying out the same old roles.
So far I think the only episode that I can really recommend is the pilot episode because that is what got me hooked.
Remember the theme song from the old BSG playing when Adama made his speech on Galatica before it was decommissioned?
Remember the cool drum music and battle scenes in that miniseries pilot episode?
I remember the first time I saw that pilot episode I thought man this show is SO COOL!
I always thought the cylon who told Baltar she was an angel sent from God was really lying and Iblis all along.
When we finally got around to seeing Baltar having a one on one conversation with a cylon centurion,
I thought to myself now we may finally get to see him commanding centurions to carry out his commands.
Man was I wrong.
Imagine if someone came to you and said Star Wars has been reimagined.
Darth Vader is this wimpy pimp who likes to frak stormtroopers.
Imagine if someone came to you and said Terminator has be reimagined and the T-800’s are not killer machines – they’re mp3 players.
Instead of Battlestar Galactica they should of called this Dramastar Galactica …or fracktica. It’s nothing like Battlestar Galatica.
MATT and NAT you guys are right, this doesn’t seem right to cram so many unanswered questions into the last few remaining episodes.
I have been so faithful to this show buying the season and recommending it to friends.
I am just disappointed that this show has turned out to be not what I expected.
February 13th, 2009 at 3:26 am
Ok I’m confused where they draw the fan of the week from cause I looked and looked and never saw the post from judo master asking to win at the end. Also, I dont see any post from Atheena regarding Ellen inventing the technology to Resurrect Cylons.
Is there another area of posts on BSGCast.com that I am missing cause I really need to get my fix in if there is.
February 13th, 2009 at 3:29 am
Wow, what an episode. One so good it made me decide to make a post once more (after such a long time since I made my last one). Great work with this video, and for the replies that everyone has left (always fun to read). I hope it isn’t a problem to come in and hopefully add a few items to the discussion, more so since this might be a big post.
As I said before, this was a great episode. It was a fast-paced way of showing just how four odd years (or however long it has been since the attack in their timeframe) of fighting and running has left on people, more so after the discovery of the ruins of “Earth”. For some this has meet a time to rethink the meaning of their life, for others it means they have to hold onto what gives their lives some sense of meaning all the more. Shake things up too much, and the bee’s shall attack, or in this case, rebell…more so with a snake in their ranks (Zarek).
That was why these last two episodes have been so great. They have given characters who have been falling into self pity the chance they need to question themselves and their actions. Whatever the outcome was of them questioning themselves, they sure did allow some interesting reactions to happen. Be it the double turncoat (rank unknown) Kelly…if he was really behind the mutineers in the first place or just helping them because they got him out of the brig, or Blater for finding some meaning towards those he hates with such a passion (likely since it is the part of himself he hates), or even Starbuck and how it gave her what she needed to go in all guns blazing (and yes, it would have been funny if she had come up with that idea first). The saddest one to question themselves out of all of this would have to be Gaeta, the perfect example of a good-hearted person tested beyond their limits, a person who leads themselves to their own destruction via their own faint in their sense of justice, only to find that inner peace they had been lacking just at the end. Overall, a fitting end for both Geata and Zarek when they faced their linked fates together (more so Zarek since this means he has been in the same number of episodes in both series).
Out of this all, about the only person who didn’t question themselves would have to be Troy. Then again, she thinks her model is perfect so what is the point in question anything you do. For little miss Prissy, that might lead to lines or something.
As to the rebellion, let me make something clear. That rebellion did not enjoy popular support, or at least that is my interpretation of things (could be wrong, but from what has been shown this is what I think for now).
We know that that as soon as the mutineers moved on the Galactica, other ships started to have issues of their own. This would be because of the issues from the last few episodes have made it clear that unrest was building in some sections of the fleet over what was happening. The question of just how much support, and who or what was it directed behind.
From facts made in past episodes, it is known that Zarek has the benefit of a network in-place (made up of either followers/his cult of personality, those who owe him something, and those who are unhappy with the way of things). This network is large enough to be able to give Zarek enough to help legally place him in power, but it is not and has never been strong enough o dare challenge the power of those who run the fleet (single ships yes, the fleet no). The only times he has been known to act is when there is a power vacuum formed when when either Roslin takes on Adama, or Adama leaves enough room to allow someone to climb higher inside the fleets power structure. The one time he tried to push his luck, Adama made it clear he wasn’t going to enjoy his support, and as much as Zarek might have liked playing up the problems with and about that, he wasn’t able to do more then deal with it and wait until something made it clear he could get the chance to make his move when the legal means couldn’t carry him all the way. His knight in shining armour just so happened to be a Geata who was questions his own beliefs and a small group of like minded people who just couldn’t end the war. That is why this rebellion was largely a small, fast, but ultimately unpopular action.
They used speed to help take the key places on the Galactica while on (at least some) of the ships, Zarek’s people moved to either take them over, or make it look like they are no longer supporting Roslin/Adama. They did this in the hope that during the confusion created by the take-over their people could either take over the important positions, take out key personal (at least in the case of Zarek who knew with Adama alive there was a chance others might rally behind him), and generally force those who might be still loyal to lay down their arms. That was the hope, and that was why mutineers had been as aggressive as they had in the take over. Once it all started to fall apart, the plan became a case of going where it was safe for them, then hope to flee so as to cut of the support of those fighting them.
Well done to Moore and the rest of the people making the show for doing it the way they did. A mistake would have been to drag this action over for too long. Yes there is questions over what happens tot he supporters, and just what those who had followed Zarek might do now that he is gone, but that is for another time and would be more interesting to see happen against the backdrop of the failing Galactica and the return of Ellen then just having an episode to focus on this.
Now as to Ellen, it shall be good to see her return. I’ve been thinking she was the final Cylon for a while (partly how they killed her off, how she came into the show in the first place, her actions during the show and the fact that they had never been able to have a child after so many years of a intensest but loving relationship). But talking about her coming back is not what I wanted to say…in fact the reason why I am writing this reply (hopefully before the next episode airs in the US going from how long I have been working on this
) is a little theory that I have been thinking of since it became known that Ellen is the final Cylon. It is that her and Starbuck are one and the same.
The short version of this idea is that both Starbuck and Ellen Tigh are not just the same person, but different points in their linked life. It might be crazy (and very much wrong), but for some odd reason I can’t help but think it works that there is a deeper connection between those two. It might not be the case that Ellen Tigh is an older (re-birthed) version of Starbuck, but at least there is a few elements of their personality that both look to share…even if it is case that the two of them are at war with each other.
I could try to let my crazy thoughts out in a way that allows the idea to take shape…but I think it might be simpler to just give a few general points about it.
-Both women have a well known reputation for sleeping around with other men in the fleet. While Starbuck keeps it to those she likes, Ellen acts like she has worked out how to use sex to help whatever it is she wants (be it getting/keeping Saul out of Cylon hands or otherwise).
-Both have a habit of keeping their main relationships to only one man (mostly), but will play around with others.
-Both have an issue of self-doubt about themselves and their actions, but Ellen’s feels more like she has grown from a lifetime (or two) of dealing with that).
-Both have a history of pissing off Tigh before he settles into a happy (mostly) relationship with them.
-In many ways Starbuck can be seen as acting like a younger version of Ellen, while Ellen acts more as a more mature (and grounded) version of her.
-Both have a habit of coming back from the dead in ways that are not fully understood.
-Ellen is implied to be sometype of saviour of the human race. Starbuck is known as “the herald of the apocalypse and the harbinger of death”. Taken together the two of them look to work well together (see Ouroboros, etc).
As I said, this might be one of the most incorrect theories to be posted on this site for a while…but it does have this thing that makes me wonder just how wrong it might be. More so since this leaves an interesting question about Starbucks relationship with Anders and weather it might be like the relationship enjoyed between Ellen and Tigh.
One thing before I go. I don’t want to be a pain in saying this or anything, but with the impact of the Victorian bushfires starting to be felt and seen I figured it might not be a problem to ask that for those who wish to help out should look towards The Australian Red Cross. After events like this, it is always good to see people come together and try to help.
http://www.redcross.org.au/vic/services_emergencyservices_victorian-bushfires-appeal-2009.htm
February 13th, 2009 at 4:10 am
sorry for the double post. I get it now the comments on the oath are reviewed in the following bsg cast. I really shoulda read all the posts along the way I guess. I missed some really interesting ideas.
However, I think the upcoming episodes will leave us all sorely disappointed. I agree that all of our questions wont be answered, but at the same time this whole Ellen rezzing thing has me thinking.
Since she is rezzing in what we have come to think of as the “normal” cylon way, will she rez as the Ellen we know or the Ellen from Earth. My thoughts are that the Ellen we see coming out of the tub will the Ellen from Earth who also remembers her life in the colonies and the fleet. This allows the writers to make her into what qualifies her to be the “fifth.” We will see a strong willed woman with none of her vices that we saw during the series. She wont be a hanger on, she wont be weak, she wont be needy.
As far as Ellen’s comment in the preview…. “there’s hope for you yet” — I saw posts from people thinking this is meant as a protector of humanity type of thing. I have to disagree and go down the path not traveled yet. Ellen is saying this to one specific person or possibly even herself after she has manipulated someone into doing something for her or after she herself has figured something out.
The biggest question on my mind about cylon versus human. In the beginning of the series they were unable to tell the difference between them biologically with all the tests they could run. Baltar developed a method of determining it that actually worked or so we were led to believe. After all we never actually saw boomer’s test results did we? Along the way they developed some method of determining medically cylon and human. We all assume this is moot, but is it really?
I would now like to change an earlier theory that I had about the cylons on Earth and colonies. Perhaps the “cylons” on Earth were actually just Humans all along and the reason they are different than the humans from the 12 colonies is just the separation and evolution. Wouldnt the same race totally separated evolve diffently over the course of a few thousand years due to external factors.
If you believe in the prophecy of the BSG universe, Laura could still be the dying leader. Everyone just seems to have assumed that Earth was their destination all along. Perhaps the destination that the scrolls refer to just isnt Earth. Roslin could still die before they arrive and then the scrolls would still hold true. Also, about the FF cylons. The five “discover” they are “cylons” but did anyone ever run a single test on any of them to truely determine if they were anything else than human. After all, Tigh (and Ellen) has been in the colonies and friends with Bill Adama for many decades whereas Anders, Tyrol, and Psycho bytch certainly have not.
As far as Starbuck coming back…who knows. I’m still not really sure what to call Starbuck. That leads to an interesting thought about that rezzing technology that might be on Earth or within range of the fleet. What if it works on “normal” humans as well. When someone dies that place automatically makes a new body for the consciousness it detects and makes it the same as what the conciousness tells the hub it had already. If that’s the case then “humans” become “cylons” when they die there. — oh maybe that’s this amazing new truth Ellens knows. Woudn’t that be juicy.
Matt and Nat…love the bsgcast shows…and that music is awesome. Can I download it somewhere cause I wanna put it on my phone.
February 13th, 2009 at 11:26 am
taeryn122:
Yes, we did see Boomer’s test results. She was all red. Baltar changed it to green and told her she was human because Head Six scared him into thinking Boomer would probably kill him on the spot if she found out the truth then and there.
February 13th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
vice_versed says ” “WAKE UP GAETA” that Zarek yells at him when he wants him to launch the alert fighters after Tyrol takes the FTL offline. Ironically, Gaeta does wake up as his old self and sees that what’s he been doing…”
This is so cool. I didn’t notice this. What a show.
February 13th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
vice_versed: I agree with you on that. It did seem like old Gaeta was finally back in order. It’s just too bad he didn’t wake up earlier then this… Maybe his life would have been spared then.
February 13th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
try this on for size, what if the damage we are seeing to Galactica is not merely wear and tear? what if it is ORGANIC damage linked to Cmdr Adama? I am wondering the many shots of Adama with chest pain, with strain, his endless routine, are cut with shots of Galactica ‘aging’ and exhibiting wear and tear
what if Adama is the 13th, the father the 5 prayed to in the temple…what if as his spirit is torn down so is Galactica, the living embodiment of the father and the wings that bear them to the new home???
hey Romo Lampkin proved that the pen is still mightier than the sword (or sidearm) for attorneys, LOL!
February 13th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
I also had another thought about the FF. It is possible that when the final five came to the colonies the idea for the cylons was also planted there. Either on purpose or on accident perhaps the FF brought the cylon plans to the colonies and truely are responsible for the destruction of the colonies.
February 13th, 2009 at 8:16 pm
Gina Jordan Says: try this on for size, what if the damage we are seeing to Galactica is not merely wear and tear? what if it is ORGANIC damage linked to Cmdr Adama? I am wondering the many shots of Adama with chest pain, with strain, his endless routine, are cut with shots of Galactica ‘aging’ and exhibiting wear and tear
Isn’t the joke about the Galacitca (the ship) is that the longer the series is on, the more like Adama they make the ship become? Even to the point where it will one day cut itself shaving one morning?
All jokes aside, this is an interesting idea, and one that might be worth some thinking about to understand just what might be going on for that to be the case, or is creating this experience with and for them. My one hope with this idea is that it doesn’t kinda lead itself to a sort of Matrix like outcome (it was one of the first things that came to mind when I read your post, sorry) where Adama turns out to be an early 90’s surfer dude.
February 15th, 2009 at 2:56 pm
in one way the you can’t play god and wash your hands in the things that you hav done idea came true for Gaeta. He was a good guy but he was lost. He did try to make a mense at the end by not killing Roslin. I am very happy about that, i think all this has broken him. Especilly that scene with Baltar. I wonder what happended to Skulls and Racetrack. I liked her until these two episodes. I’m hoping Adamas you’ll die for nothing happened on them. Well bye Guys im going to go pray to the lords of Kobol i win :L lmao.
February 16th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
We’re glad you’re loving the ‘casts taeryn122! The music is actually the last few bars of Bear’s “All Along The Watchtower” so you can grab that track on the Season 3 Soundtrack!
~Matt
January 15th, 2010 at 6:48 pm
[...] skirts – embroidery – hang it on the wall – circle skirt – book giveaway – whip – wool skirt – BSGcast 4.16 Blood on the Scales | Battlestar GalacticaThe amazing conslusion of the 2-part Mutiny storyline answered a few questions, but none that Part 1 [...]
April 25th, 2010 at 2:24 am
Now THAT’S what I deem an insightful position on things. What I would suggest perhaps is speaking to other people involved in the scene and bring to day any conflicting points of view and then update your blog or create a new article for us to stew over. I hope you’ll take my advice, I’m looking forward to it! Try to cover off on some graffiti characters as well if possible, they’re everywhere at the moment.