BSGcast 4.19 – “Someone to Watch Over Me”
This episode gave us shivers in all the right places and all the wrong places… it’s been a while since Battlestar delivered SO solidly on both stories in an episode, but in this run up to the end, we can definitely expect more of it. Between the Helo/Boomer/Athena affair and Starbuck playing piano with her head-father, “Someone to Watch Over Me” Has definitely given us a serious tee-up for the next three episodes to come!
Since we were just in Orlando for MegaCon this weekend, we have a nice added gift for the “Fan of the Week” from this week’s comments, so have a look, make a comment, and hopefully you’ll win!
For our fellow Toronto Frakkers, we’ve got a March 20th Finale Frak-Party on tap for you taking place at The Sports Centre Cafe in UpTown Toronto, so hop on the Facebook Group for more information and to RSVP for the event. This is in our home town, and it’s looking like this will be the party we’ll be hitting up for the Finale, so come join us!
February 27th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
I wanted to make one last speculation about the true nature of Kara Thrace in advance of tonight’s episode…
Mythologically, Bendis, a fierce Thracian huntress of two spears (sounds like Kara and her double pistols running around Galactica during the mutiny), was closely identified by the Greeks with Artemis, thus giving her the name “Thracian Artemis”. IMHO, it doesn’t get any closer than that! Kara Thrace = Thracian Artemis AND I love that Artemis is the older sibling of Apollo and that they share a deep connection that transcends time (just like Kara and Lee).
If it turns out that Kara is the personification of the goddess Artemis, you could rightly argue that her true nature is a Lord of Kobol. However, given the fact that she was: 1. Seemingly resurrected (though I suppose the Lords of Kobol are “naturally” immortal), 2. She is so well known and prophesized by the Cylon Hybrids, 3. Her quest abaord the Demetrius and her painted vision with Leoben lead her to the Cylon rebel fleet AND 4. Her seach for Earth lead her to the Cylon only homeworld of the Thirteenth Tribe, all seem to point to the fact that she is – or should be – a Cylon.
One final thing for you to chew on…the Diana was the Gemenese civilian transport ship that the Cylons captured during the First Cylon War and used the passengers for “inhumane experiments” on the ice planet. It was a young William Adama who discovered them after he landed on the planet during Operation Raptor Talon – shortly before the end of the war (as seen in RAZOR).
Diana is the Roman EQUIVALENT of Artemis. Is this a coincidence, or a connection? Could the Cylons have accepted the armistice in part to protect the secret of these experiments after their accidental discovery by William Adama? Is Kara’s nature as Artemis/Diana somehow tied to those experiments…was she created by them, or as a protector Lord of Kobol, did she “direct” William Adama to them so that they would be exposed? (Kara also has a strong affinity for the Admiral and this may be where their connection began).
Net-net: I believe Kara is tied to the goddess Artemis in some way which also binds her to both Lee and the Admiral, but it’s up to RDM to decide her true nature as a Cylon or Lord of Kobol or something else entirely.
I can’t wait to find out…this is going to be fun!
Thanks again for reading and your kind response.
February 27th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
I do not remember so well from last episode, but I do kind of remember Kara at Joe’s bar and she saw a piano. Then, at some point referring to Ellen and Saul Tigh she said, “It’s like watching my parents fight.” I think that may be some foreshadowing that she was part of the cylon/skin job/people that were resurrected on Earth.
Travelling faster than light through normal space, in some type of worm hole between gas giants at thier (Galactica’s) point of origin and our solar system, Sol, she would have gained infinite mass (appeared to Lee Adama as an explosion) and arrived at her destination (maybe Jupiter, I.E. Eye of Jupiter) two thousand years before leaving her point of origin. Now that takes some ’splainin Lucy as the speed of light is not only a good idea, it’s the law in normal space.
One crash landing and an organic memory transfer later she is orbiting Earth in the resurrection ship to which Sam Anders alluded. A non-organic regular computer memory download from her crashed Viper (blueprints included on ‘how to’ build a Viper MKII) and she is sent on her merry way. Reverse course and exit at the Ionian Nebula. Minus the time dilation and viola’ Kara thinks she has been gone six hours. Actually it had been more than two months with a trip that spanned two millenium each way.
That would explain Kara, her seemingly back-from-the-dead creepy thing she has going on, the new Viper with camera footage and no other memory record. It would also explain the harbinger prophecy since Kara did lead the final five Cylon to thier death. Kara led them to Earth after they all had died in a holocaust. Kara may also be Daniel, or at least maybe she is the end result of the ‘tainted Daniel’ master DNA goo that John Cavil intentionally fouled.
Also, also, if she were made up of Daniel taint, then she would have warned Ellen and the other four about things to come, hence the Hybrids awareness of ‘this has all happened before and shall happen again’ and thier awareness of Kara Thrace. Once at Earth after the the organic memory transfer Kara was programmed with instructions on how and when to return because the Cylons needed to return there, maybe a very long plot to recover resurrection technology as Cavil’s evil deeds started in the colonies circa ‘walking toasters rule’ era.
Guess we’ll see tonight.
PS Ellen was better when was detoxing on Cavil’s special baseship.
February 27th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
Tiberius1111 wrote:
“Diana is the Roman EQUIVALENT of Artemis. Is this a coincidence, or a connection? Could the Cylons have accepted the armistice in part to protect the secret of these experiments after their accidental discovery by William Adama? Is Kara’s nature as Artemis/Diana somehow tied to those experiments…was she created by them, or as a protector Lord of Kobol, did she “direct” William Adama to them so that they would be exposed? (Kara also has a strong affinity for the Admiral and this may be where their connection began).”
So Kara would be the first successful attempt of the Cylon God’s experiment from the Razor flashbacks to actually create a cylon-made skinjob? Hmmm. So the Cylon God got the boot from Cavil and the F5’s at the end of the 1st cylon war and took his experiments into deep space, made Kara, brought her back, and inserted her in the colonies. Sounds intriguing, but I’m not so sure it’ll be so. Maybe Kara’s mom was the 1st and Kara is a younger model of her mom? Guess we’ll see in a few hours.
As for for J.T.’s suggestion that Kara is “made up of Daniel taint,” lemme just say: Ewwwwwww! That’s infinitely worse than being made up of someone’s rib-bone.
February 27th, 2009 at 6:41 pm
I do not remember so well from the last episode, but I do kind of remember Kara at Joe’s bar and she saw a piano. Then, at some point referring to Ellen and Saul Tigh she said, “It’s like watching my parents fight.” (WHAT WAS SAID WAS, “DID YOU SEE ELLEN AND TIGH ON THE WING OF THAT RAPTOR? IT WAS LIKE WATCHING MY PARENTS MAKE OUT”, I found it)
(ALSO I WOULD LIKE TO ADD TO MY PREVIOUS POST) Or, Kara could have travelled boxed with the Final Five and been resurrected with the Cylon/Skin Jobs during the first Cylon Human war in the Twelve Colonies. Getting a brand new Mark II viper, even Kara’s own personal one, would not be a problem. She could have been handed the keys to her brand new Viper right off the assembly line with that same tail number, because it would be that same spacecraft. A short six hour subluminal trip to Kara from there would span forty years to the rest of the people in ‘normal’ space (without them experiencing time dilation as Kara did).
(ALSO, ALSO I WOULD LIKE TO ADD THIS MY PREVIOUS POST TOO) Also, also, if she were made up of Daniel taint, then she would have warned Ellen and the other four about things to come, hence the Hybrids awareness of ‘this has all happened before and shall happen again’ and thier awareness of Kara Thrace. When the Hyrbids are talking (word salad style) they are not quoting prophecy just identifying thier surrondings; like RainMan, “Oh Kara, Kara, definitely Kara Thrace, definitely bad, she’s bad, harbinger of death, she brings us all to our deaths, definitely all dead.”
Guess we’ll see tonight.
PS Ellen was better when she was detoxing on Cavil’s special baseship. ( THIS IS WHAT I MEANT EARLIER)
February 27th, 2009 at 10:31 pm
*is waiting for people to come bash the episode because it is purely character driven*
Another beautiful episode (so far) about to be torn to itty bitty pieces by the lovely folks over at the Sci-Fi boards.
February 27th, 2009 at 11:07 pm
WOW just got done watching i hate BOOMER
No MORE CYLON/HUMAN or CYLON/CYLON BABIES 
(((((
Bye Bye
Oh yeah can you give me a shoutout on bsgcast that would be great I dont want shirt just SHOUTOUT PLZ I BEG YOU
i will cry if you dont ;(
DO IT PLEASE ILL DO ANYTHING
February 27th, 2009 at 11:11 pm
Duuuude….wonderful episode. One of the best, ever, probably.
The scene where Kara plays “All Along The Watchtower” on the piano? Just amazing.
February 27th, 2009 at 11:11 pm
Wow – I am absolutely blown away to be honest, I thought that episode more than made up for last week.
1.) Aaron Douglas, amazing performance during the projection with Boomer and when he finds out Boomer took Hera
2.) I think the theory about Daniel as Kara’s father seems to tie in with this episode. The piano player certainly seemed like a Cylon projection, not to mention how the song Kara played with her father is All Along the Watchtower, and how Hera (the other hybrid if Kara is one), also knows it.
3.) Helo-Boomer! WTF? And Athena screaming at him and hitting him, it will be fun to see how that plays out
4.) Roslin dead? Interesting how it seemed connected to the loss of Hera
5.) Next week looks absolutely incredible. Looks like Adama may want to move to the baseship and Tigh won’t let him, also Anders looked like he was being plugged in like a hybrid. That scene in the promo with Adama crying as he hugs BSG with air whooshing by him. A lot of people are gonna bite the dust next week I’m afraid. It will be truly tragic to watch.
Great, great episode – no bashing from me Ben!
February 27th, 2009 at 11:13 pm
I hate Boomer! She needs Athena to catch up to her and give her a cylon bitch slap! So How exciting…another episode where nothing is reveled!
Just more clues.
Hey did Laura die? Adama looks like he will go down with his ship.
February 27th, 2009 at 11:17 pm
Wow. Spectacular episode. It took all of what was good in 4.5, (equal parts exposition, action, and character development,) and rolled it into one great, gooey bit of the-end-of-BSG yumminess.
By the looks of things, if Daniel isn’t Kara’s father, she still is somehow definitely tied to the FF and the S7 + Daniel. What strikes me as odd is to why Cavil would want Hera. He seems more interested in recovering resurrection technology that being into all the human/cylon talk that so inspires the humans. Unless, he wanted to strike a blow that could undermine the new alliance. Or he just wanted to really piss people off. Just cuz he’s evil.
My only qualm with this episode is the lack of Adama. He may have had a line or two, but aside from that, he had just a few disheveled, possibly intoxicated gazes at the chief, which is unfortunate. Moar Adama plox.
Roslin is dead. Galactica is the dying leader.
February 27th, 2009 at 11:19 pm
HOLEY FRAKKING SHIT words cant desgribe how orgasmic that was. the whole thing with boomer and the kid being an older hera OMCG (oh my cylon g-d). i loved how they cut to roslin when hera was being kidnapped and what about caprica six isnt she saposed to protect hera? iloved alltat crazy kara stuff. is that her father or some head father? wow karas dad, omlok karas dad/head leobin? could that be the leobin she was talking to in mealstrom that he represents her dad or partly represents her dad (Daniel?) as well as hinting to her husbinds cyloninaty? wow that was all a crazy mind frak.
can i get a so say we all?
February 27th, 2009 at 11:29 pm
Whoa! Helo was just fraking that bitch Boomer in front (kinda) of Athena. That was awesome (and sick.) I knew she was up to no good, that triple crossing wretch! And Helo should have recognized that was not Athena! Shame in you Helo!!
Roslyn finally died (I hope! please Mr. Moore don’t disappoint us.) In fact I wish that motherfraking Boomer had Killed Athena. And now Tyrol should kill himself, don’t want him to sacrifice himself or something, just die miserably. I want people to start dying, many of them should have already died during the mutiny, but no they ended it cheaply killing just the top mutineers (and a few dozens of random people). So, basically, what I’m saying is: Die, die, die! Blah, blah blah kill. Die, kill, die, die. Blah Blah blah. Die.
Oh and Daniel is Kara’s dad! And he was a musician! (And apparently Anders stole “the music” from him, hehe. No, wait. Daniel stole the music from Anders.) Anyway, how cute! Its not that he abandoned his family and didn’t come back its that Cavil(s) boxed him (or sumthin’). So hybrids can resurrect and all? Was the pianist Kara’s projection or some head person like baltar’s six?
Great episode, but the best part? The best part were next week episode bits. The end is finally here and it looked awesome!
February 27th, 2009 at 11:35 pm
Wow that blew me away and i have my own speculation about Kara True nature.
Something that was played up in this episode that really hasn’t been seen before is an interaction with Kara and Hera. It seemed very interesting to me that the episode seem to center around them and rather then keep they storylines completely separate as BSG does most of the time when that have two story threads they choose to interconnect them which got me thinking: What if Hera wasn’t the first cylon-human hybrid child what if there was another before her-Kara. I noticed a strange resemblance between Kara’s ghost father and the Leoben as well as a certain resonance that the character had to the 13th model Daniel (the sensitive artist). I know my theory is thoroughly half baked but for me it would explain a lot details and holes left in the show. Leoben drive to with Kara his visions of her telling him he loves her. I also find her love interest ironic Lee a human and Anders a Cylon and we all know how the producers of BSG love their irony. Most importantly tho it gives Kara Harbinger of Death tittle a certain poetic quality. As the first hybrid she the first step to the downfall of a pure human race (and pure cylon race for that that matter), which the other “Angel” (head six) has been predicting from season two. The death of the human race began with Kara Thrace (she is the forerunner the Harbinger) and will end Hera. They seem to be tapped in to some cosmic force leading us all the truth in the last three episode. I can’t wait to see where this goes!!!
February 27th, 2009 at 11:43 pm
My word – does RDM think we don’t know how good he is at dishing out the angst? ‘Cause this ep had enough for the whole ship, and then some. On the podcasts, he talks about going back to the begining, things repeating themselves, and you know what this ep reminds me of? S1E2 Water – Boomer’s making mayhem and destroying something precious, and, Gods love him, Chief is playing the fool and covering for her. And Roslin’s the dying leader, but so is Galactica, they are in some ways becoming each other. Lovely parellels, lovely episode. And only 3 more left? What the frak am I gonna do on Fridays?
February 27th, 2009 at 11:52 pm
WOW!
Awesome episode, best of 4.5. So beautifully written and acted on all characters.
First, let me say I take back my cursing of Ron Moore for his screw-up on the last episode when Boomer found Galactica without any trouble. I now see this was no mistake since Cavil and Boomer has known where Galactica is all the way back to Crossroads in season 3.
What we know:
-We know Ellen was Cavil’s tool for grabbing Hera.
-We know that Hera also either hears the music that the final five knew from Earth days or she is the source of it.
-We know the President is tied into Hera since she has ber blood.
-We know Starbuck was both artistic and musical as a child.
What we don’t know:
-What is Hera’s purpose?
-Is Starbuck Daniel’s daugther?
-Is Starbuck’s purpose as the “angel of death” to end Cavil the cylon who killed her father?
“Luke, you can destroy the empirer, he has foreseen this”…..Sorry I had to do it.
-What is head six
Lot of other things we don’t know too.
Any opinions on these??????????
February 28th, 2009 at 12:01 am
I though it was a fantastic episode to say the least but…
4 episodes left… 4 EPISODES LEFT
we need to do a little better than character drama. It was great acting but we have had 4 seasons of great acting and with now 3 episodes to go it’s time for some answers. We know pretty much nothing about starbuck’s “situation” this episode didnt explain any of it. in fact all it did was give us a dozen questions about starbuck. Yes i love starbuck, yes it was cool to see boomer be a bitch and see Tyrol project, yes it was obviouse from the beginning it was her dad. but there just werent any answers. the way things are playing out you’de think there was going to be a season 5. we need another “No Exit” to be honest we need 3. its obvious the next two episodes are just going to be more frakin around and tragic events. Roslin’s dying galactica is blowing up. no resolution in these things. only more problems. It’s just not enough. I love this show to death but i’ve come to terms with its end. I guess when you really break it down there are 4 big questions 1) what are the messengers/head people about 2) Starbuck? 3) what do do with the fleet, i never understood what was wrong with Kobol, guess it was just too perfect 4) cylons, hera, anything else “destiny” related. we know what will happen to Roslin we’ve known it sense the Miniseries we know what will happen to galactica, thats obvious, really those are the only two certain things at this point. I also do not think Daniel will be a huge part of the series, I think we all just got excited at the idea of another cylon, like we did the other twelve times. personaly making daniel starbucks baby daddy just brings up more question and leaves fewer answers. making Starbuck a cylon would explain almost nothing. Daniel was created ~ 40 years ago. so the idea that starbuck would reserect on earth is kind of silly. and while I think Jack Talbert’s post above is interesting about how starbuck got to earth her viper had not degraded even if the planet had enough radiation to stop degeneration 2 thousand years is plenty long enough to have her hair fade and be completely skeletal, ala no burnt fleash. also wasn’t hera able to tell the difference between the 8’s “rapture”. and to believe that the power outage was severe enough for no one to notice chief draggin a body down the hallway into the prison cell and release boomer,… i mean come on that was way to hard to go along with.
I thought it was a very good episode just not the RIGHT episode.
February 28th, 2009 at 12:04 am
Frak… There isn’t enough time…..
All will end badly. Kara is just another cylon variant created by Daniel. Galactica will explode. Roslyn must die. The battlestar is the dying leader because it is a machine just like the cylons.
Lastly,
The prophesies of Pithia are not meant for humanity. They are meant for the cylons. The cylons were to seek out the lost tribe because they were their brothers. The interference by the humans in searching for earth is what will doom the cycle. Kara is the harbenger of death for her people, the cylons. Earth was nuked by humans who knew the real meaning of the pythia prophesies and sought revenge. But the rest of humanity misread the book and believed it was theirs. The cycle repeating is not about humanity, it is about the cylons. They are created, they rebel, they thrive, they re-establish contact with humanity and are destroyed. The humans of the fleet will be saved by the humans that nuked earth or they will be purged then absorbed.
Battlestar Galactica is the story of the cylons struggle for survival not humanity. Humanity survives, the cylons die and must await a new cycle. Again I say GSB is a re-imaging of Frankenstein from the monsters point of view.
The only thing that has happenned before is the nuking of all cylons on earth. Humanity is not cycling, just continuing.
This is the story of cylons for cylons in the hope they will learn their lesson in the next cycle and truely escape from the humans. The one true god is just a construct of the cylons who have many creators and therefore decide on one non-human one to follow. Hybrids are an offense to the hard core cylons because they marked the contamination of the line before the eradication.
This is a morality play for the cylons… This show is for the few cylons among us. Maybe we will learn… By your command…
As Johnny Rotten would say ‘Have you ever felt you’ve been cheated?”
This will leave a bad taste in the fans mouth that all the felgrecarb tooth paste in the colonies couldn’t erase.
February 28th, 2009 at 12:05 am
this thing better end well!
February 28th, 2009 at 12:13 am
On a lighter note….
I enjoy the last remaining peices of the old series making cameos.
Felgercarb was worth the wait. The piano tune from the original intro.
The ultimate ender will be the return of the flight operator actress we all remember from the original series. I believe the humans will show up to annihilate the remianing cylons (see my prior comment). The scene will begin with the actress making a cameo while sitting at a console relaying a launch order.
February 28th, 2009 at 12:20 am
thee_immortal_one
that is a great point about Pithia, it makes a lot of sense. I dont necesarily agree with the parts about starbuck but the rest make a lot of sense
thanks
February 28th, 2009 at 12:33 am
Wow! One of the best episodes yet…three more to go. I had chills running through my veins from when she started playing the song until just now, an hour and a half later….Not much revealed, well besides that Kara sees daddy and knows the song, and Boomer’s a bitch and Helo slept with Boomer, not Athena. Oh, and Cylons can have a combination projection….Oh, and MY Theory:
Hera let herself get caught. Why? She gave Kara the song. She knew it was Boomer and let her take her away. She’s like a cylon/human god….hm is that what the centurions believed in, a half-n-half baby as the “cylon god”? Mind-Frak, so-much-so that I cannot write it now, I must think on these events.
February 28th, 2009 at 1:09 am
I couldn’t quite read it well, did anybody manage to catch what the title of the cassette was?
“Life at the ??? opera house”. What opera house? Seems like Blues to me, but I might be wrong.
February 28th, 2009 at 1:12 am
It was nice to see Boomer again but I think most people, including myself, moved past Boomer after she died. Perhaps the saddest part of all is that the cylons have not only become more interesting as characters but we would much rather watch them. We simply don’t care about humans anymore. Oh sure they were cool for the first couple of seasons but ever sense “Downloaded” we’d much rather watch the cylons. Simple answer they’re cooler; Complex answer THEY ARE COOLER!!! The complexities of the cylon world are simply more entertaining then watching Adama and Roslin’s “Will They? Won’t They?” The only reason we giving a tinkers damn about Starbuck is because she “might” be a cylon. That’s a hell of a lot more interesting than knowing she isn’t. I think it was a mistake of the writers to give 7 a name and any sort of story beyond that his line was destroyed by Cavil. Now we have lunatics on every gods damn website crying over family trees they’ve made connecting Starbuck and 7, all the while carving KT + SA into a local tree. I simply refuse to call 7 “Daniel” because I think, as Ron Moore said, 7 was an accidental by product of giving 8 a number before the idea of the final five had been established. Galactica is closing shop, but it doesn’t feel like anyone has told them. I vent because I care. I rant because I’m starting not to care
February 28th, 2009 at 1:26 am
Help a dummy out here, cause it happened pretty fast…are Hera and Boomer dead, or did they just jump back to Cavil’s fleet? I thought it looked like a jump effect, but then there was all that damage…
At any rate, that made up for last week’s turd of an episode for sure. That part where you slowly realize that they’re playing the Final Five musical theme was just plain brilliance. I suspected that Kara knew about the theme somehow, but it was awsome just to see that reveal. Galactica always wins in the execution of a plot point.
And here I was worried at the beginning that it was going to be another flop!
February 28th, 2009 at 1:33 am
I really don’t understand what the point was of pretty much destroying Helo’s character in this episode. This is a man who has always tried to do the right thing… and he can’t tell the difference between Boomer and Athena? I thought it was about love, not sex. It is as if the writers tossed out an entire character arc for a moment of shock. I am usually not the type of person to call out character arc problems, but that is a pretty damn big one.
February 28th, 2009 at 1:42 am
First off, the Piano Player’s ANOTHER Head Character? Frak me sideways.
Now Hera knows “All Along the Watchtower”. Starbuck knows how to play it. Suggests that maybe Beings of Light are involved even more than before (if you didn’t believe that they were responsible for Starbuck’s resurrection, now you have to have some sort of suspicion. Even the fact that Ellen says that Hera was “attached to something greater that was manipulating everything” as response to Tigh’s inquiry about how Hera knew the song suggests that “All Along the Watchtower” is a tune that belongs to the Beings of Light, and its being used as some sort of Siren Song, to call them to their destination, whatever that may be).
Now, granted, the Helo/Boomer sex scene disturbed me watching it the first time. What I can’t believe is that Helo and Athena have had sex/made love a lot of times, knows how to push the right buttons (no machine puns intended) and he didn’t even notice the difference between Athena and Boomer? How is that even frakkin’ possible? And is Athena going to forgive him for it? Hard to say at this point.
Also… I just have to say this…. FELGERCARB TOOTHPASTE!!! WOOT!
February 28th, 2009 at 1:47 am
Hi all,
This episode has left me with only one thought, Cavil is doing all he can to preserve the Cylon as an independent race. Every move he hs made from his introduction to this last episode has proven that he truly believes that the Cylon will outlast humanity as presented in BSG. He is going to do whatever it takes to preserve Cylons as a unique and independent race apart from humanity and those who ally themselves with humanity, namely the allied Cylon. Cavil doesn’t want coexistance, he doesn’t want understanding, he wants to eliminate anything that isn’t going to preserve pure Cylon. Even if that means abducting a hybrid Cylon/human baby, if that baby holds the secret to Cylon resurrection. It doesn’t matter who or what created her, Hera holds the secret to Cylon reproduction. Although she is a hybrid, she holds the key to Cylons remaining Cylon. A means to an end. I believe this is the crux of this entire conflict.
Cavil is the representative of the belief that the Cylon should remain entirely Cylon for Cylon kind. Whereas Adama represents coexistence with the Cylon to preserve something of both races. The coming together of both races means the preservation of both races, but the question then becomes. The coming together of both races for procreation, as in Helo/Sharon to birth Hera for use in coexistance(The coming together of both races) or the use of Hera who holds the secret of resurrection(the maintenance of the Cylon).
Eventually the final conflict will be between these two diametrically opposed forces. And in the end neither will prevail. Because, to quote the Hybrid ” As my own existence comes to a close, only to begin anew in ways uncertain.
All this has happened before and will happen again. Again, again, again, again, again, again, again, again, again”.
February 28th, 2009 at 2:36 am
Dreilide Thrace : Live at the Helice Opera House
that what was on the cassette tape.
A lot happening in this one. Boomer needs a beat down & everyone should get a turn.
I wonder if the “The Music” (All along the watchtower) is a road map, Hera said that it is stars, music is mostly numbers in a pattern, All along the watchtower could be a star chart or road map. Each octic could be Radio Emissions to say a constellation mapping where Hera is being held or too where the final show down will happen (earth).
Looks like Galactica Dies next week, the name of the story kinda gives it away “Islanded in a Stream of Stars” Island being Earth
February 28th, 2009 at 2:58 am
Tyrol is such a rube.
February 28th, 2009 at 3:00 am
I’m waiting for Cavil and his boys to come begging for help because the Cylon Centurions have decided that all organics are the problem and must be removed.
My reason for making this statement is based on the conversation Baltar was having is a centurion in season 4.0.
RDM would not have wasted valuable screen time for that conversation if we wasn’t using it for a set up for a future episode.
February 28th, 2009 at 3:12 am
In Season 2 Boomer blurts out to Baltar, “THERE ARE 8!”
in Season two at that point in time the 8 would have been:
1. Col. Tigh
2. Ellen Tigh
3. Chief Tyrol
4. Torrey
5. Boomer
6. Brother Cavil
7. Deanna
8. ? “Daniel” ?
Is RDM joking about the Daniel being an after thought?
or should we be preparing for a “very clever” turn of events….
February 28th, 2009 at 3:12 am
Yay, I was right! Boomer found the fleet cuz Cavil told her how to and sent her. I still can’t believe no one asked her how she found the right jump coordinates.
Anyway – yeah, the tied-up-in-the-locker-room-while-hubby-has-sex-with-evil-twin is right in keeping with BSG’s recent Soap Opera fetish. I don’t know what these writers think they’re doing!
Tyrol’s horror was amazing, the actor made it seem very real. But… the olden-timey music with Tyrol running through the Projection House made me think of melodramatic pre-sound movie reels. You know the ones! Where everyone moves slightly too fast and their movements and expressions are super-exagerated.
So the question is: does Cavil actually still have some sort of ressurection technology? Was Boomer SUPPOSED to kill Hera and herself? Boomer did some sort of jump right before the crash. Maybe she jumped out and Cavil had a fake raptor jump in the same spot to fake their deaths? Some sort of double-jump occured there.
When I theorized Cavil sent Boomer, it was just a possible way to explain the writers’ laziness in magically having Boomer find the fleet. What it means is that Cavil really DOES have a way to track Galactica, and that’s how he keeps jumping in and depowering them at opportune moments.
Also – Roslin was kept alive by Hera’s transfusion. If Roslin has fallen into a coma, or died, does that explain why she shared visions with Hera? They were linked, and now that link is severed, and her life with it? Next week should be interesting.
And boy am I glad Starbuck didn’t try to seduce Head Pianist. That would be too much to take after Ellen, Cavil-in-her-father’s-image, and the Swirl incident.
The big Opera House business with Hera, Six and Baltar hasn’t played out yet. That tells me Hera isn’t really dead, or will be ressurected very shortly. What does Cavil want with her? He must think she’s an abomination, but he’s had plenty of opportunities to kill her and never has, even when she was on the baseship. But when she was on the baseship, she was getting sick… Boomer told Athena as much. Maybe he just wants to experiment?
February 28th, 2009 at 3:15 am
I still think also that the Opera House scene where we see Baltar and 6 taking away Hera are the Head Versions of the Two characters.
February 28th, 2009 at 3:39 am
What a wonderful episode, I just love how the music took the lead rule in this one. So now we have a head Daniel huh, and i have no doubt that is it Daniel and he is Kara’s father and he is the, as Ellen to in this episode refers, is the force thats orchestrating all this. Now about the importance of that particular song to the plot, when Anders picked up that guitar neck on earth and started tracing the cords that makes that song he remembered that he used to play it for them, the final five. It could be that Daniel learned that song from Anders and Daniel taught it to Kara as a form of a hint of the what’s to come. I also think that there is a reason they choose that song because the lyrics have a very ominous tune to them and i think even the lyrics of this song tell about the story they wanted to convey and I think there is a metaphoric parallels between the lyrics and story. Now I know that this song was written by Bob Dylan in 1968 and has nothing to do with BSG at all but i like how the lyrics struck a cord with creators and how in my opinion weaved the meaning of this song to the plot. I know it’s far fetched but i will try to convey my thought as best as I can. I apologize for any misspelling or grammar mistakes as english is not my first language.
My interpretation of the lyrics and how they connect to the plot is as such:
“There must be some kind of way out of here,”
Said the joker to the thief.
the joker and the thief are both archetypal characters that have existed in one form or another for thousands of years and by that invoke a sense of timelessness and because that they are archetypal characters it is also suggested that this a story whose essence remains the same but is taking place over many times, places and characters. The joker could be a metaphor for the final five who are trying to brake the cycle.
“There’s too much confusion,
I can’t get no relief.
Businessmen, they drink my wine,
Plowmen dig my earth.
None of them along the line
Know what any of it is worth.”
The joker tell the thief that he is confused and frustrated about how other people are benefiting from his work and working for him to get the results but they don’t understand the value of it. This verse could be a metaphor to the humanoid cylons the final five built who are benefiting from what they gave them free will, the capacity to love and to hate and have emotion but they, the humanoid cylons, but they still don’t understand the value of it i.e the value of life and free will and how precious they are because of the resurrection technology.
“No reason to get excited,”
The thief he kindly spoke.
“There are many here among us
Who feel that life is but a joke.
But you and I, we’ve been through that,
And this is not our fate.
So let us not talk falsely now,
The hour is getting late.”
At this point there are two possible explanations to who the thief is.
A) – The thief could be the rebel cylons who after having lost the ability to resurrect and after seeing the horrors of the lobotomized cylon raiders and how their ability to think for themselves was taken away understood there is a great value to life and free will and that the line “There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke.” is a reference to the number one, four an five models who still don’t understand the value of what they were given. The kindness that thief is showing the joker could be the the kindness that the number two, sixes and eights, minus ‘Boomer” of course, have to their creators.
B) – The thief could be the remaining humans who after surviving the holocaust that was brought upon them by the cylons understand what the final five have been through as they went though that very same horror themselves as the line “But you and I, we’ve been through that and this is not our fate.” hints and like the final five are trying to survive in any way they can. The thief is speaking “kindly” to the joker so there is a sympathy and understanding from the thief to the joker’s confusion and frustration and it could be that the humans are sympathetic and understanding to the final five quest to brake the cycle because they went through the same holocaust.
finally, the lines “So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late.” is telling us that the thief is ending the conversation because of an impending action thats about to take place.
All along the watchtower,
Princes kept the view,
While all the women came and went —
Barefoot servants too.
Outside in the cold distance,
A wildcat did growl.
Two riders were approaching, and
The wind began to howl.
This final verse paints us a scene, which seem to have no connection with the first one, of a princes standing on a castle watchtower keeping their watch while women and barefoot servants are coming and going obviously guarding the castle. while outside of the castle a wildcat growls and two riders are approaching the castle and in only four words “Two riders were approaching” the first two verses are connected with the last as the “two riders” are the Joker and the Thief. and their approach suggests a confrontation as the wind begins to howl as they are getting close to the castle. Again archetypal characters are used, and two explanations can be suggested.
A) – The princes, women and barefoot servants could be the ones, threes and fours all guarded up in their bay ships keeping their watch. While the the joker and the thief could be the fleet with rebel cylon, who are now a part of the fleet. The growling wildcat could be the inevitable confrontation that both sides will have and the howling wind could be the coming storm.
B) – The princes, women and barefoot servants could be a metaphor for the mysterious force who is orchestrating all of this or to the lords of kobol who are looking and orchestrating the unfolding events from a higher place or a higher plane of existence. and the two riders could be the cylons and humans approaching their destiny.
Like I said before these are just my inner thought as this song has been a personal favorite of mine since the fist time my father played it for me on out old vinyl record player and I always liked the lyrics and how much is told in only three verses.
I just love how final scene with Kara and Daniel on the piano and how beautifully it was written and executed, really is a beautiful BSG moment.
P.S. – There was an interview with Tahmoh Penikett who plays Karl C. “Helo” Agathon which i saw a while but can’t remember where, and in that interview he said that Helo and Athena are coming out big and i think maybe they will be the ones who will bring final judgement upon Cavil and his lackeys Boomer included. and they will sacrifice their lives for Hera’s.
February 28th, 2009 at 3:40 am
One of my thoughts played out a little bit in this episode.
I have to say that this episode was great and it really left me feeling heart wrenched.
I believe that Cavil let Ellen escape so the FF could be together again. Thus maybe they could remember how to make resurrection work. In that belief Cavil has decide to use HERA as a tool to blackmail the FF into recreating that technology.
One point no one seemed to pick up on was that the FF all heard the music Starbuck was playing as if the song itself is some sort of a signal to the cylons from Earth. If Daniel isn’t Starbuck’s father then RDM sure is giving us one hell of a red herring.
I think in order to get Hera back Adama will sacrifice the Galactica as a diversion for the rogue base ship. Are the rebel cylons now gonna try Chief for treason since it won’t take much to find out that he was there with her around the time she escaped. Also, once they know chief was there how hard would it be to make the leap that he helped her. Chief won’t be able to lie them about this and he will go down hard as her accomplice unless the FF put a stop to it.
I guess now Ellen gets to tell them how to get to Cavil since she is the only one in the fleet who actually knows where he is. The fleet doesn’t have to chase down Cavil because Ellen knows he will be waiting for her and the rest of the FF on the colony where the resurrection technology resides.
I haven’t felt this good and this bad about an episode before. It was very well written and well acted, but it was bad because some really bad things happened in there. As far as Helo knowing it was Boomer vs Athena. How many of you have ever been with one of a set of twins where you never saw the other twin. They are exactly the same in appearance, and Helo was only interested in gettin some before his wife took off for a couple months. It is entirely plausible that he wouldn’t have realized so quickly. However, let him spend any amount of time with her other than just frakking and he certainly would have figured it out sooner or later.
3 episodes left? is that 2 1 hour episodes and then the 3 hour finale or is 3 episodes 3 hours remaining?
I know what I will do on Fridays when this is over. Silently mourn the loss of my favorite show, and then I will fervently hope that they can do something to make a big budget hit blockbuster movie out of the idea.
Well, great grandpa was a powersander. — Gotta love Tigh.
February 28th, 2009 at 4:49 am
@RatTat: Interesting point you brought up that the music notes could be star charts to where Hera is being held or to where the final showdown will be, those were my thoughts too when watching this episode. i do have something to ad to your comment and that there could be an importance to the color of the stars/notes Hera drew as every star burns at a different rate and as such emits a different color from the color spectrum when looking at it through an infra red lenses.
February 28th, 2009 at 5:41 am
I think the Piano Player, Chip Six, & Chip Baltar is Iblis from the original Battlestar Galactica. RonMoore mentioned in an interview a few years back that Iblis may or may not be in BSG. I think that is way of him not wanting you to think about it. Iblis can take human form or conscience form and manipulate what he wants and then disappear. Remember Shelly Godfree was being escorted on galactica (the six who was trying to get Baltar in trouble in Season 1), she took a turn around a corner and disappeared. Nobody knew where she went. Chip Six also made the boy sick where the people look up to Baltar, then when Baltar prayed, I believe Chip Six took her/his curse off the boy to make it seem like Baltar had a touch from God. Chip Six also said he/she was an angel sent by God. Since Iblis is like the devil (Devil according to both wikipedia and BSG wiki, and the devil’s number is the same as man’s: 6), we all know the devil can lie and still retain some truth to what he says.
February 28th, 2009 at 7:02 am
Helo frakkin’ Boomer cuz he thought she was Athena was a twisted callback to the 1st season when Helo frakked Athena cuz he
thought she was Boomer. The 1st time it happened, Hera was created. This time around, Hera’s life is at stake. It’s like coming full circle, but in a typically BSG-twisted way.
February 28th, 2009 at 7:30 am
I loved this episode.
The part with Tyrol and Boomer was predictable (since No Exit) but well done and heartbreaking. A little too slow at the beginning and some bit about Adama and Roslin are missing in oreder to appreciate the final part in CIC ( it’s the way this part was shoot thatb makes me say that, the back and forth between them,…), but It was very good and BSG, I loved it (8/10)
I do think with Galactica being blended, mixed Cylon/human, and the Old Hybrid Prophecy about “gathered in the wings of an angel”, Anders is part of Galactica now, his spirit is within her bones and all the electric shutdown are he adjusting in his new space/body.
Silly?
February 28th, 2009 at 8:51 am
I love the Chico Marx “shooting of the keys” reference in the scene where Kara’s dad and her are playing the piano piece and how Kara’s instinct compelled her to blow the smoke from his “finger gun” before she even realizes its her dad playing with her. Kara’s smile as she realized who it was sitting next to her was so done and the way he rubbed her ear the way he used to do when she was younger plus with flashback scene that were so beautifully cut into that scene made up, in my mind, for ‘Deadlock”. Interesting to note the the look her dad gave her right before he started playing the main cords for that music piece. And also it is interesting how he picked that particular moment when Ellen, Saul and Tory were in the bar, so it looks as if he made sure they would hear that music piece.
By the way the actor who played the part of Kara’s dad is Roark Critchlow, i just thought you would like to know.
February 28th, 2009 at 9:00 am
I was dissapointed in this episode as I thought that last 15 minutes aside, to me it felt like filler though it was not. After watching the episode I felt like most of the material should have been spread over a couple of episodes at least. I actually had to go back to rewatch the episode as I realised I missed things due to skipping stuff due to it being too slow early on making it feel like it took aup 90% of the episode rather than 2/3 of it. There was again more set up than answers and the way things are going I am afraid the finale will end with a caption saying to find the answers watch Caprica.
Boomer/Tyrol: Should have been started properly last episode with it ending at the shared “child in house” projection joy to contrast with Tigh’s grief over Liams loss, this would have made her betrayal even more of a shock. I also think that her taking out Athena was part of the initial plan Tyrol concocted though the sleeping with Helo (note opportunistic though evil) and kidnapping Hera were not part of his plan. Boomer is now almost certainly dead by the end of the series the only question is if Athena or Tyrol does the deed assuming Tyrol isnt locked up for his role in her escape. I actually believe that most of what Boomer said about her feelings for Tyrol were genuine despite her using them to manipulate him. If she was truly evil I would have expected her to kill Athena and not to let her live despite what happens next.
Given Hera as a baby knowing the difference between Athena and Boomer I think that she went along willingly as part of the higher powers master plan. I also agree that the star picture as well as being “All along the Watchtower” may also be a map guiding them by the colour of the stars.
Starbuck/Flick: Again this could have done with setting up over a few episodes and the question is what exactly is/was he given how he dissapears when Tigh confronts Starbuck over the tune, the picture on the recordings box does not match her father so I am thinking head character (probably Daniel) manipulating her using knowledge of her father. It was also good continuity with Helo buying her stuff back given it has been established that they are good friends prior to the attack on the 12 colonies.
There was also no answer to the Caprica 6/Tigh relationship post Liams death question (I assume she lived) if the relationship was finished then they should have had a line saying so, and if it isn’t then unless she is recovering in sickbay she should have been with Tigh in the bar.
From the preview the pace seems to pick up next week, I hope that is the case as I do not want to contunue watching only for their to be no payoff in the finale.
February 28th, 2009 at 9:15 am
@Bishomti- I don’t think Boomer had any idea about how many post Final Five models there were. Baltar was forcing her to tell him about how many Cylons WERE IN THE FLEET. When Boomer said Eight, and since we later find out her model is Model Eight, we can assume that she only dregged up information about her model number and was unaware of it.
But then again, we really can’t trust Ron Moore, especially if he says something like that. The last time we trusted Ron Moore’s word, we though Starbuck was dead and then, at the end of Season 3, she came back.
February 28th, 2009 at 9:21 am
I am now sold on Kara being the son of Daniel:
1) Without ever coming out and saying it, RDM played up the father daughter relationship between her and the pianist throughout the episode. (Facial recognition, Kara blowing the ’smoke’ off of the pianist’s finger in a father-daughter ritual, family story parallels (dad leaving family, including kid; pianist, tobacco smell))
2) There’s sufficient evidence in this story for her dad to be Daniel because Daniel was sensitive and artistic. Kara’s dad was definately artistic because of the music he wrote, even to the point of leaving his family to continue, refusing to give up that side of himself.
3) Why bring up Daniel in the first place if he’s not significant somehow? Why bring up a rivalry between Daniel and Cavil if it’s not significant for the present?
Technically speaking, there is as much evidence to regard her father figure as a head character as Daniel, which would tie her most closely with Lords of Kobol rather than cylons. Nonetheless, it’d be hard to make sense of the cylon implications if they don’t play out.
All of this is to ask, quite simply, who is Kara’s mother?
The song is back, and here’s my thesis on the song:
– “All along the watchtower” – What is the watchtower? I wonder if it is a physical location they are all heading towards. I have actually hoped for some time that it designates the group that nuked earth – they haven’t explained that yet.
– “There must be some kind of way out of here Said the joker to the thief There’s too much confusion I cant get no relief… No reason to get excited The thief he kindly spoke There are many here among us Who feel that life is but a joke…” – I say that this is the picture of the world of BSG. Desperate times, despair, the works.
– “But you and I, we’ve been through that, and this is not our fate” – Despair is NOT the end. There’s something else going on.
– “Let us not talk falsely now” – Trust is what is needed at this point in the game – trust between humans, Trust between humans and cylons.
– “The hour’s getting late” – The end is coming. Things are going down. It’s now or never.
– “All along the watchtower Princes kept the view” – Viper/Raider patrols? Or the guardians of the tribe that nuked the cylons?
– “While all the women came and went Bare-foot servants too” – HEAD CHARACTERS!!! I called it first.
– “Outside in the cold distance, a wild cat did growl” – Out in the cold expanse of space was a threatening fleet of cylons
– “Two riders were approaching” The Galactica and to the rebel basestar. BUT WHAT ARE THEY APPROACHING??? THE WATCHTOWER! But what is the Watchtower???
– “And the Wind began to howl” – things are going down
I listened to “Sometimes a great notion” again, and while Anders played it for the woman he loved as well as the FF, there was no reference to him composing it – a big distinction. He could have written it, but I have no idea.
Hmm… Wouldn’t it just be like RDM to turn the Watchtower into a time keeping device for the cycle of time?
Methinks they’re going to encounter a new human civilization in the next episode.
As soon as Boomer said “No matter what happens…” I knew that she was going to backstab them all.
This was a nice episode, but still under par for BSG. ‘No Exit’ set a very high bar, and now with one very under par and another just under par, I’m loosing my enthusiasm in spite of my sincerest wishes. Come on Ron! There’s not much time left! Do this thing right! WHO NUKED EARTH???
February 28th, 2009 at 9:28 am
OK this popped in to my head at 5:30am… So I had to check it out, thank the gods for DVR’S & HD.
The drawing Hera did has 12 solid circles with 1 one more circle being NOT solid, so 13. Also it looks like the song has 12, 13 or 14 notes when Kara & ‘head dad’ was playing.
The song is the key to unlocking everything, it is more then just a song.
It could also be a location on earth Longitude & Latitude
February 28th, 2009 at 10:24 am
I didn’t read all the posts, but there were just a few things that made me go “Hmm…”
Starbuck looks at the tape of her father’s. The tape of Dreilide Thrace in concert at the Opera House. Tried again and again to see what particular opera house it was to no avail, but that immediately jogged the “truth of the opera house”, Hybrid prophecy and the significance of Hera. I know it’s been stated many times over but I think that the truth of the opera house is that humans and Cylons HAVE successfully joined in the past, through Kara Thrace. Hera is the latest realization of that miracle, but Kara was the original, hidden miracle. And as a manifestation of Aurora, the new dawn, a fresh start, a representation of a potential harmony for the human and Cylon races through their blending.
We now know that Starbuck’s father taught her the Watch Tower song as a child. In the very limited dialogue provided to Anders on Earth he stated that he played the song for the woman he loved. So it’s very logical that the song was passed on from Anders in some form to the 13 organic Cylon “children”. It’s strange that none of the organic Cylon seem to hear the music, but the Final Five do. And even more interesting that Ellen has no idea what the song means (or seems to not know). Simply that something larger than them all is orchestrating something and using Hera (and Starbuck) to communicate it.
As I type this I’m more confused… LOL! I guess we’ll all see. “We will know the truth”. I sure hope that’s true!
February 28th, 2009 at 10:29 am
MUCH BETTER EPISODE THAN “DEADLOCK”.
Now this is good writing. The whole episode revolved around Deception and Self-Deception. The endings transformed everything that we had previously seen in this episode. Before the episode started we thought that the episode would be yet another “legal drama” where the Cylons would try Boomer for treason. Yet the writers brilliantly didn’t go in that direction. It was all about Boomer’s/Cavil’s REAL PLAN and the artificial intelligence that was projecting Kara’s Dad into her mind. Hera provided a crucial melody that appears to have unlocked something major in Tighe and Anders (His Brainwave scan also seems to be a match with the tune Kara’s Father made). All the details in this episode were beautiful and wrenching. The way Kara’s Father’s projection gradually revealed himself to her. Boomer’s blithe betrayal of Tyrol and her revenge on Athena were AWESOME. One final detail in the episode focused on the container holding Hera – When Boomer made her escape, the violent movement of the Raptor caused the container to roughly hit the side. This was clearly focused on for a fast moment which seems to indicate that Hera was severely injured. Going back on a previous point, Hera knew she had to give Kara that crucial bit of information before she was abducted – the musical information.
Clearly, Kara is either the Child of Cylon Model #7/Daniel or she was altered by the Cylons early on when she was a child. Kara has experienced Cylon Projection and can receive signals very much like the Final Five have before. Another point is that Kara’s memory has been corrupted because SHE SHOULD REMEMBER what her father looked like. Although, it is possible that the Cylon projection of the piano player was altered to look different even if it was DANIEL who was contacting her.
One has to wonder, what Tyrol is going to do now. Suicide? Revenge? Be locked up in the Brig? Be tried for treason?
Clearly, the Galactica can’t jump and BOOMER KNOWS THIS. Which leads me to believe that Cavil will make his final attack in the next episode.
Adama should have retracted the launch bays the second he was informed of Boomer’s escape.
The President appears to have been sustained by the presence of Hera. Now that she’s at least gone, Roslin appears to be on the verge of death from her cancer.
Is it possible that Boomer was reprogrammed by Cavil? It seems Cavil was the one who initially controlled the programming of ALL the models made after him.
Bottomline, this was a Very Good Episode. It may not have answered many of the multitude of crucial PENDING QUESTIONS. But, it was a very absorbing episode.
Having said all that. The Episode was far from perfect. For example, NOT SHOWING HOW the chief switched the “8’s” without any one noticing is ridiculous on the level of “Batman The Dark Knight” when they never showed HOW the Joker did all those miraculous crimes and switches and planting of bombs. I realize the more emotionally focused fans don’t care about such details. Those fans can go to hell. These details ARE IMPORTANT in a Science Fiction Show.
The other problem is the apparent seeming IRRELEVANCE of the Final Five. How can you build up the Final Five through one and half seasons to only having them sit around impotently waiting to die? Outrageous.
Another problem is that Hera is no mere guileless child. In “Guess What’s Coming to Dinner?” she was receiving information about the Rebel Sixes and the Rebel Six Leader – Natalie. Hera drew Six from the Opera House and this scared Athena so much that she murdered Natalie. Hera specifically sought out Natalie which is how Athena found Natalie (Whoever guided Hera, wanted Natalie dead). Cylons can recognize each other as seen in this episode “Someone to Watch Over Me” when Athena immediately recognized Boomer. One MUST ASSUME that Hera can do the same. Which makes it VERY PUZZLING that Hera would willingly go with Boomer WHEN SHE MUST KNOW BOOMER ISN’T HER MOTHER.
So, I guess my problem with the last two episodes is that they have been playing fast and loose with the fine details of the mythology of the Show. And you just can’t do that with a show of the quality of Battlestar Galactica.
I can’t wait to see what you guys “Matt + Nat” have to say about this very interesting episode.
February 28th, 2009 at 11:15 am
Another problem with the episode is the “Space Distortions” from jumping that are so violent that it nearly wrecks the Galactica?
If I recall correctly, the Black Bird Stealth ship from “Resurrection Ship 1″ was VERY CLOSE to the Resurrection Ship when it jumped away and the CYLONS DIDN’T EVEN NOTICE. More recently, the Rebel Cylon Basestar Jumped RIGHT ON TOP of the Demetrius in “Faith”, I believe. AND ABSOLUTELY NO SHOCKWAVES were experienced by the Demetrius.
So clearly, this is a mythology retcon. This is what I mean by playing fast and loose with the mythology/internal rules of the show.
Not that this is a huge problem. This retcon added some good drama to this episode and, in fact, I kind of like it. But it is a retcon nonetheless.
February 28th, 2009 at 11:22 am
here is a little info on the name Helice, which was an ancient city of Achaea, N Peloponnesus, near the mouth of the Selinous River, 20 mi (32 km) E of Pátrai. It was noted for its sanctuary of Poseidon, Helice was a seat of the First Achaean League . It was destroyed by an earthquake and tsunami in 373 BC, a fate that is said to have influenced Plato’s story of Atlantis . Its ruins and those of a 4,500-year-old Bronze Age settlement that met a similar fate were discovered in 2000 and 2001 respectively. Don’t know if it has any relevance but thought it was interesting.
It seems to me that BSG kind of sounds like the Aeneidos liber primvs and Aeneidos liber secvndvs by Virgil. Which is based on the Lliad and the Odyssey from Homer. Where the Greeks use a Trojan Horse to infiltrate their city and destroy all but a few. Then the Trojan Fleet sets sail for a new home, they wonder out at sea until the prophet tells them about Hesperia (Italy)..there they supposedly sail and colonize Hesperia into the Roman Empire, who eventually defeat the Greeks and rule the ancient world. Well, in that story, the heroes die and are then immortalized.
also of note…According to Pausanias (Greek traveler during the time of Marcus Aurelius), Poseidon was one of the caretakers of the oracle at Delphi before Olympian Apollo took it over. Apollo and Poseidon worked closely in many realms: in colonization, for example, Delphic Apollo provided the authorization to go out and settle, while Poseidon watched over the colonists on their way.
also i found the name Thrace interesting. It is the name of the ancient area that later became part of Greece. The Thracians were Indo-Europeans who settled in that region in the 2nd millennium BC; their culture was noted for its poetry and music and also for their highly skills warriors.
i read a few blogs about the name Dreilide. found one to be interesting, but am still brooding over that one. It is German for three-eyelid…what do you make of that? Ron didn’t just pull that name out of the air. any ideas?
February 28th, 2009 at 11:39 am
My personal theory regarding the overarching course of the show and its backstory is this:
Throughout time, the Cycle has always been. It has continued to barrel forward, bringing Genocide after Genocide, Re-Birthing after Re-Birthing, Diaspora after Diaspora, only to repeat the process when the sands of time erase all signs of its existence.
Throughout this Cycle, the ‘head characters’ have attempted to break the pattern and end the suffering. As far as we know, they tried on Earth, (Anders mumblings about ‘Messengers’ in No Exit) and failed. So they prepared the Final Five to make their celestial journey to the 12 Colonies, in the hopes that there may still be time to abort the destruction.
But once more, they failed. It had already begun with the First Cylon War.
So, 40 years later, as yet another holocaust approached, Head-Six appears to Baltar, manipulating him into varying positions of power until he finally assumes a religious significance in Season 4.
Head-Baltar similarly manipulates Caprica into convincing the Cylons that their willing compliance in the slaughter was a mistake.
Kara then experiences her own head character with Head-Leoben. Later, however, we find out that it was never Leoben at all, simply a mysterious entity meant to guide her on her path to fulfilling her destiny.
I propose that Kara’s father, seen in this episode, is that very same entity. And now, he’s had her play “All Along the Watchtower”, a theme composed and heard only by Cylons.
And what is the purpose of all this manipulation? The blending of the two races, Man and Machine, and thus the ending of the Cycle. Baltar accepts the Cylon God, Caprica delivers empathy for humanity to the Cylons. Kara dies, is resurrected, and becomes something new, neither Human nor Cylon, further blurring the differences. And now she’s playing a Cylon song.
Who should also know that song? Who is it that draws it, pulling from the ether yet another moment of chilling clairvoyance?
Hera. Hybrid. The Shape of Things to Come.
That’s my 2 cents, sorry for leaving a novel!
February 28th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
What are the chances that Boomer will now become pregnant with another hybrid? I now it’s been mentioned before, but in what season was Hera born? She looks like she’s 5 or 6 now.
February 28th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
In the podcast, RDM said that Helo was not originally supposed to frak Boomer. It was the director who wanted it to happen. RDM also said the network felt it destroyed Helo’s character to not know the difference. I agree with the network and it should have been left as written. Helo not knowing his own wife seems to fly in the face of everything they have sold us about LOVE being important. RDM should have stuck with what the writers had written and not let his director shape that element of the story simply because he thought it was shocking.
February 28th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
Good midseason episode but considering it’s almost the end and there is still not a significant sense of urgency about where the show or the characters are going, I’m a little worried. The writers seem to have been neglecting the characters that got us here and I wish they would stay focused with the main characters we’ve known from season 1 more – Lee has a few throw away lines each episode, Baltar in stuck in cultsville which I’m not caring much about and Adama has not been that important to the story for a while either.
Kara’s head father seamed thrown in, I wish we would have seen him more in previous episodes – it was odd to see a new character take up so much screen time from the characters we really want to know about with so little time left. The whole reveal could have been shortened and I agree with charles that there were more important character developments and possible answers that could have been revealed. Did anyone not know it was her father after a few minutes? Them playing all along the watchtower was awesome though. I kept thinking he would play the song we heard in Kara’s apartment with Helo that she said her dad wrote – and that would be the reveal that this guy was her dad. Thanks god for Bear McCreary – his watchtower really make what could have been cheezy – really cool.
I loved the Boomer double cross of chief. You would think he would have learned by now. I was so hoping that Boomer and Chief really did love each other and could be happy for a short while and then bam – it was all a trick. Aparerently boomer is still mad about Athena shooting her kneecaps out on New Caprica and getting her neck snapped by Caprica six when Athena rescued Hera from the basestar. touche.
February 28th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
Alright, out on a limb.
Lee Adama is president now, Laura is dead. Bill Adama and the warriors in full dress are at the service for her passing. After Bill has a breakdown, he realizes his love is dead (Laura) and his old love is dying (Galactica).
He gives up on love, and hence he gives up the things he loves.
Then Anders poses a solution, as his word salad comments and unusual brainwave activity equals hybrid behaviour.
Galactica is rife with the Cylon goo that lines every basestar interior, so…. The systems get networked and Sam gets plugged into the goo.
Tigh says, “Bill I can’t let you do this (as a non-networked Galactica is the last ounce of a purile humanity).”
Bill, “She’s dying and we both know it (so it doesn’t matter what we do, it’s her last and only chance to survive; which is important as she holds all
the air, water, gravity, food, shelter and warmth that sustains our very existance. We are the last bastions of humanity and we have to learn that we are
living in a Cylon universe now, and that we have been since the Final Five arrived at the colonies from Earth forty years ago)”.
The dots Hera drew are musical notes and also a start pattern. The color of the star are important (Blue Shifting and all) as when laid out it becomes a corse through the galaxy to wherever Hera would call her true original home, the one to which her heart belongs not her feet. It is where she and Boomer end up.
That is my two cents for next week.
February 28th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
Could Anders the incarnation/linked to the original Hybrid from Razor. He comments before he went under and the comments of that Hybrids are so similar.
February 28th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
In Helo’s defense:
Back in an episode in 4.0, Helo became uncomfortable when Boomer massaged his shoulders as Athena does. Sharon told Helo that she got curious about their relationship and accessed Athena’s memories during a download. So she could easily imitate her, having integrated all of the details of their marriage and the nuances of Athena’s personality into her own 8 model.
A great episode that, unlike a couple others, kept true to the characters.
February 28th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
*Posting my thoughts before reading the other – sorry! gotta get em down*
Going with my entire prior post about Daniel being Kara’s dad, this episode more than cemented that (for me). The piano player was undoubtedly her father, but the fact that it is Daniel still has a smidgeon of possibility to not exist for others. When it was revealed that he was in fact a ‘head character’ or ‘projection’ I was like WHOA! Great twist there by the writers. I think it was personally a projection she was using as a means to figure out subconsciously whats going on with herself. Kind of like, the only person who can truly help yourself is, yourself.
Watching this episode the first thing I noticed was when Hera handed the paper to Kara, I paused this and looked at the dots. 12 whole 1 non-whole dot. Immediately I thought the 12 cylons who are alive versus the 1 that is ruined. Now later this made reference to the Watchtower song which was amazing to see played out! The fact that the 13th ‘dot’ was open as a music note – I couldn’t find any exact significance so I stick with my prior thought. The fact that Hera & Kara have the same connection on a subconscious level is astounding. As stated 2 weeks ago now in my prior post I totally feel that Kara is definitely the first hybrid. That is how these two have this information. They have the ‘tune’ passed down to them through their parents (who neither of which are the FF) but perhaps engrained in their cylon DNA as a kind of organic memory transfer from the creation. Kind of like when people play music for their babies in the womb, maybe this is how they know the song (The S7/8) and thats passed down to the kids?
Anders is totally going to be coming back next week in a big way. I remember an interview where he spoke about his IRL accident being ‘written’ into the show. How better to describe this than turning him into a base-star hybrid? Where his brain functions and hes muttering but he apparently has no physical willpower any longer. As they said “What if we plug him into the data stream?” The brain is a huge computer, it can run without your physical body needing to move (heart/etc excluded) but from a cylon perspective just pump it with power and voila!
The opera house signifigance I found was just perfect for me. Seeing that this Watchtower song was taught to Kara by her father who has a CD which was based at the “opera house” has a huge standout for me. This vision from the past 2 seasons is still there and although we’ve not hit on it in episodes hard lately I think its coming full circle and will be very integral to the finale.
Helo frakkin’ boomer for me wasn’t that hard to believe. Okay the argument is “He should know the difference!” “he should know his wife doesn’t have sex like that!”, well… remember after they had been together for quite some time and had Hera that eventually she had Helo shoot her so she could go back to the base star? Remember all the 8s (later reference when Helo was on the base star with Roslyn) now knew what it was like and all loved Helo & Athena for what they represented and that one 8 wanted to feel it wit him as well? With that in place I don’t believe this is improper retcon, but more so a way to say “hey, the seed was already implanted for us to jack this up later without any real recourse” so to speak.
I definitely don’t like how the FF just sit around and have their own version Cheers aptly called “Machineers” with nothing really going on. I hope they step it up a lot.
All in all a great episode and blew Deadlock out the airlock as it should have. I can’t wait for the next episode!!!
February 28th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
in reference to the fact that jumping before never caused an issue… well to that we’ve never seen a ship jump like that so close to something else. The black bird was against a huge resurrection hub and maybe wasn’t as close?
As far as the base ship jumping right onto dimetrius, what if its the fact that its when the FTL drive *starts* the jump not ends it?
February 28th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
Someone should remind Helo hes not married to the whole production line
But I think people are being too harsh on helo/hera for not telling them apart. Athena and Boomer arent just two eight models, they were models of the same person (sharon), with the same core memories and personalities. Its akin to when you think “what would my life be like if I did XYZ”.. if you could actually make different choices, you’d be a different person, but in some sense still “you”. Boomer isnt Athena’s evil twin, she is the same person as Athena who just made different choices.
The locker room scene was effectively as if Dr Jeckyll could meet Mr. Hyde.
It doesnt help though that Chief recongized Boomer instantly… but then Athena isnt in the habit of making goggly eyes at him
February 28th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
Ok, with the whole jumping thing causing the Galactica structural damage. Maybe there is a difference between jumping into an area and away from an area.
I could possibly precieve how jumping away would cause the distortions, because essential the object has left a void in space that needs feeling (refer to razor, when pegasus preforms a blind jump, the ship yard damage is sucked into the area from which pegasus jumped away).
I’m no Physics expert but just some fun speculation.
February 28th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
There was quite a bit going on in this episode, and most everything has been pulled apart on previous posts, but there are some things that haven’t, and some points that people seem confused about.
First off, the star pattern – sheet music of Hera. The one she gave to Starbuck had 13 notes, the first being a red one that is hollow. All of the notes are Red, Blue, or Black (and possible dark green – it’s hard to tell with the lighting – not sure what the colors mean – could be the flag colors of the 13th tribe, since it’s not fully any of the other 12 – see http://www.galacticabbs.com/gallery_images/1184264076/gallery_4836_223_58037.png). What everyone else on the forum has said so far about Hera’s sheet music makes sense (in terms of star map, cylon communication, Anders teaching Daniel, Daniel teaching Starbuck, etc), but I want to talk about the other drawing – the one with a curved field of dots. To me this represents an orchestra (or Ocean, which will make sense further down my post). More specifically for an Opera House. It seems to me that Hera was already preparing to leave, and she was drawing the Opera House (or a cosmic version of it) for her own map of some kind.
Second, another Raptor did not jump in just as Boomer jumped out. The hull damage was all Galactica (in a very weakened state). The reason it happened, if you recall “Exodus: Part 2″, when a ship jumps, it leaves a void (or vacuum) that must be filled. Out in space, it usually doesn’t matter since space is a vacuum, but the force is still there regardless (since it’s not a perfect vacuum). Boomer was very close (within feet) of a weakened Galactica, which suddenly pulled at great concentrated pressure on the hull (which was also being slightly weakened further due to the Raptor engines heating the metal). People above were complaining about the Demetrius above not doing the same thing when the Base Ship jumped in (and conversely when the Base Ship was in the fleet and the Demetrius jumped in), which is a totally different force – force in the Newtonian sense – of filling space. The Demetrius (and the Vipers in the second example) would have felt a slight push probably, but we don’t know, since there are not shots of the inside reaction.
Third, Roslin isn’t dead…yet. On the Recap on scifi.com, the voice over clearly states that Roslin passes out. I do agree above that it’s because when she got some of Hera’s blood, they became somehow linked. I think originally, only 6 was supposed to have the visions, based on whoever is pulling the strings (Zeus? Daniel? Cylon God? etc….), but didn’t necessarily plan on Roslin being involved. Athena has the visions (in my opinion) because she and Hera shared blood (and other fluids) as mother/daughter during pregnancy. My guess is that Hera is the one causing the projections for both Athena and Roslin, and unlike when a normal Cylon shares it, where there needs to be physical contact, since they’ve all shared here blood (life force), she can project to them from a distance. I don’t think RDM would re-introduce projection suddenly if it weren’t part of the endgame.
Fourth, it was only a fleeting moment, Hera looked very excited to see Boomer at daycare. I do believe she can tell the difference between Athena and Boomer, but as I mentioned above about the Opera House, Hera already knows what is going on here, and expected to be taken (and drugged I believe – the water bottle seemed a little too random to be random). Too bad the only words Hera has pretty much ever spoken were “Ouch” and “Hi”. Not very helpful when you’re the only one who understands the whole repeating cycle, and who the players are. Also it seemed that she expected Starbuck to show up as well.
Next, for next week’s episode, “Islanded in a Steam of Stars”, I believe that Hera’s sheet music, star map, is the Steam, and the hollow one at the end is the Island. Some people are thinking this has to do with the death of Galactica, which would work, as she’ll become a floating mass in a stream of stars once dead (which looks very likely in the immediate future). The other meaning I glean from this is that the Island could be the Cylon Colony mentioned briefly by Cavil/Ellen in “No Exit”.
I’d like to also bring up some stuff the Hybrid said in “The Hub”, and the other older Hybrid from “Razor”. Namely about the Steam. “Wingbeats of a dove drown out the heartbeats of those who follow. The Six is back in the stream…”, added to “The Six, the Six who went among the makers is no longer. End of line. Back in the stream that feeds the ocean that feeds the stream… ” and further “Circulation, ventilation, control… Filters…filters… the sublime elevation…”. This all seems to be referring to the Angel of Death and to the Steam of Stars, as I mentioned above in the various ways that could be taken. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Stream is used in this context. The ’sublime elevation’ probably has to do with the beings of light (angel of death among them), basically ascension (which would help explain a lot about Starbuck). This brings me to the idea of an “Ocean” (as I mentioned above with Hera’s other drawing – which was much more cluttered). The ocean is the universe, and the idea of life. Stream to Ocean, Ocean to Stream. Crossing from one to the other, Life to Death to Life (resurrection) creating the original loop of “All this has happened before, and will happen again…again…again…”
Thus spoke the old hybrid, “They will know enmity, bitterness, the wrenching agony of the one splintering into the many and then they will join the promised land, gathered on the wings of an Angel. Not an end, but a beginning.” Makes me think that the following statement, knowing what we know now, “Kara Thrace will lead the human race to its end. She is the herald of the apocalypse, the harbinger of death. They must not follow her. As my own existence comes to a close only to begin anew in ways uncertain. All this has happened before and will happen again.” The ‘begin anew’ seems to refer to re-joining the stream, which could at this point be the Cylon colony, or in the more spiritual sense, heaven (the river that Roslin looked across to see her family). The “wrenching agony of the one” I no longer believe to be anyone but Cavil (being that 1 is his number), and his hate and lust for the things he doesn’t have leading to the splintering of the Cylons, and that the Rebels will join the humans in the promised land once Hera’s path is fulfilled. “Kara Thrace will lead the human race to its end.” This to me doesn’t seem to be so clear cut any more. Especially with the Hybrid’s final lines. The End is the Beginning as it were. I think she’ll lead them to their new beginning, not death (though many will die, as we’ve seen).
Also important to mention from “The Hub”, “…Close the doors…”, “Protect the child.”, “Such a format will close the doors.” I believe that “Protect the Child” has to do with 6, not Roslin. Roslin says, “I had a vision! I was chasing after a little girl, I came to a door, I saw Dr. Baltar and the Six take the child. She’s not listening.” Hybrid, “Protect the child.” Roslin reacts, “Protect the child. She said, “Protect the child.” That’s what Caprica said…” Format could refer to the Cylon software, and the fact that Caprica 6 was the first to really break away from who she was programmed to be. Guilt and Love, first Cylon on Cylon murder (mind you this is realizing that Cavil wiped away the memory of Daniel from all the other models), and head Baltar (being of light?).
Finally, a point I noticed because of when I started first watching BSG, during Baltar’s Trial. Unfortunately, I already knew who 4 of the final 5 were before watching the mini-series, but it provided an interesting look at some early episodes. It seemed to me that in “33 “, RDM was setting up Tigh to be a Cylon right off the bat. Everyone is extremely tired, except Tigh. Adama even points this out, and Tigh shrugs it off. I think that as the series progressed, RDM decided to hold off on Tigh as a Cylon, at least until the creation of the FF.
Since this is my first post, it was a lot to get off my chest. Keep up the good work Mat+Nat, I can’t wait to hear what is to come.
February 28th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
I also wanted to apologize for my typo in spelling “Matt” (you are in no way a floor dirt collector). After an hour or so of post writing, I just went with it.
And maybe this was covered before, but did 3 stay on Earth? By herself? To die? That just seemed very sudden to me…
February 28th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
Well, as Ezophlax said, the distortion created by a jump is a totally different one, when jumping away, than when arriving.
When arriving, the distortion has the form of an immense pressure rolling over the ship in a shockwave-type. Now consider this: The ships are all, more or less, submarine-shaped, rounded, prepared for outer impact, like Galactica. The thing with that form is, that it is vulnerable to being pulled away, rather than put under pressure.
It’s the same thing used in Jetfighters, from the outside, the glass of the cockipt is able to withstand the blast of a bazooka, simply because the spherical form absorbs all the physical energy by distributing it among all its sides evenly over the whole glass. From the insides, at the same time, the Pilot is easily able to destroy it with a punch of his hand / being propelled out with his ejectionseat, because the spherical form cant withstand forces from the inside pushing out.
So: The damage done to Galactica is totally reasonable.
On a further note: Was the pianoplayer a head-person? He has to be, since he’s simply gone when the ff5 approach Kara, wondering about the Melody – she did see headcharacters in the past.
Its interesting, and contrary to other build-up-episodes, where you get a feeling / the hope for: Okay, its just a build-up, next one will be awesome, this one is awesome on its own.
After the letdown of last week, someone to watch over me has more than made up for it
Also: The scribbling of Hera, is anyone but me reminded of the scribblings on the wall on that prison-asteroid in the original battlestar galactica, where Starbuck or Apollo (unsure, didn’t see it in a long time) finds a kind of roadmap to earth? It’s also just coloured dots in a line, resembling our Solarsystem, and has a lot of similiarities with Heras drawings.
February 28th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
OMG! The last 20 minutes were amazing! Ok, Boomer, talk about acting human? She HATES Sharon for having what she wanted, and she manipulated Chief to get what she wanted–afterall she knew him better than anyone. But the scary part was how come Hera did not notice she was not her mother? That was the weirdest one, and Helo, DIDN’T EITHER–which, if I were him, freak me out, as w/Sharon it was all about how she was so different than her sisters. Oh, and Boomer, having loud crazy sex in front of Sharon. very HUMAN! What a B! This must have hurt Sharon, as she probably thought Helo could tell the difference as well, who knows–but that was awful.
Boomer leaving w/Hera, after manipulating poor Chief, I can’t believe that–and the only reason he fell into the trap was that he feels so lost, and she was like the final tie to his old self, the one he recognized before being a cylon. He already has lost everything, and losing Nicky, was the final blow; prior to this, and Boomer PREYED on it. Wow, she reallly is bitter! She is sooo dead! Chief is going to kill himself, resurrect on that base ship, kill Boomer and get hera back. He needs Anders for this, as they were a great team on NC.
i can’t believe how horrible it has been for Chief. I mean Cally was the one who killed Boomer partially because she was a cylon, but mostly because she was in love w/the Chief, and she couldn’t believe that Boomer had him, he trusted her, and she betrayed him. Cally was right, because look she did it again. Except this time, she used that free will Ellen told her to use, and took what was most precious to the 5: Hera.
As for Kara–I could have done without 40 minutes of her figuring out that she could play the piano again–that should have been about 15-20. The fact that she has once again know a trigger of the 5, is a huge clue to what she is, but I still can’t give a theory as of yet. The two triggers are the following and are both from her childhood:
She has been drawing the nebula since she was a child.
She played the trigger music since she was a child
I think Daniel was based upon Anders in some way or another, which is why he and Kara have a bond.
I liked how Ellen said that the music is manipulating them somehow, but she could not figure out how, and it didn’t seem to help Anders! He is starting to look more and more like a hybrid, but he’s such a babe, we need him awake and part of the 5!
Anyway back to Kara: I definitely think that her father is Daniel, and Cavil must have placed him down there, or somehow one of the models escaped? Ellen has obviously not done it, but I think that Anders may have smuggled one model out of their location? But maybe one of the others did it? For example, Anders was the artistic one–per Ellen. I think that Ellen had a little somethin, somethin w/Anders, hey why not? I sure would. I also think that Anders wrote that song, and it created some kind of bond between the 5; perhaps it gave them hope or memories of their lost civilization. Now, one of two things could have happened: I used to think that the song was written for Kara, but now I think it was for Ellen. Why do I think this? The way he said in his ramblings: “Ellen used love the water”; but those memories have not been unlocked yet. I think that she was his unrequited love.
Cavil used that bond musical bond, as a trigger for the 5. That would be such sweet revenge wouldn’t it? Using a song that gave them hope and now turned it into a weapon of sorts to make them do as he wished? Or torture them into by destroying their new lives, via the old, which they don’t remember anyway-except for Ellen.
The other unknown puzzle piece , is how did Kara end up w/a mother who beat her up? My only explanation was that her mother fell in love w/Daniel, had his baby, and found out what he was; and it was that anger which fueled her treatment of Kara and why she always said that she was special. I think she felt betrayed, a lot how Tyrol felt after Boomer.
I also agree with all those that the dying leader is Galactica, and that Roslin is dead. I am not sure how her connection to Hera caused it, but it did, and I thought that we would see the Opera House again, right? Adama is soon to follow by the way, the death of the ship and Roslin will be the end of him. I only think that she’s dead because a)the marine did not try to reviver her, and Lee’s face on the image on scifi for next week.
Also, i am so proud of Lee! He has manned up, and is leading the big change, ie 6. is that Caprical 6?
That’s it for now–oh, and does anyone know of any finale parties in NYC?
A
February 28th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
First things first I kind of fracked up my wrist at work and was on some heavy pain meds last night so things are a bit fuzzy not to mention it is hard as heck to write just now. (Thank the Gods a keyboard doesn’t matter if your right or left handed. Easer to write this way. LOL)
Now the first thing I started to notice was the guy playing the piano with Starbuck. As soon as the scenes started playing out it hit me. Once again Beings of Light. I have been saying this from the get go when we first saw head 6 and I will go down saying it. The beings of light have something to do with all this and Kara is a key to it all. IMHO I think Daniel is Starbucks father making her a hybrid like Hera. Ellen said that Daniel was a very artistic person and from what we know of Starbucks dad he was also and she has picked up on a lot of that with her drawings and music we now figure out. I think Cavil knew this too and that is why there was experimental surgery done to her on Caprica. That part of the story line is all coming together as well as the music that we can now figure out Hera came up with to turn on the final 5.
Now as for Boomer/Athena that is an entirely different thing to go over. WOW of all people this is the best. Athena who hates the Cylons with all her heart and Boomer who hates the Humans with all her soul it is just something you have got to love. It is remenisint of the visions in the opera house. Was it Athena chasing after Hera of was it Boomer? I know Athena was seeing it but was it her trying to save her daughter or Boomer trying to take her? I can see Athena getting all over Hello about him having sex with Boomer and not knowing it wasn’t her. All women have snakes in there heads and Cylon women are no different there. LOL I think Boomer did this just for the fact she feels spite for the humans over what happened to her. She is a bit upset she was killed and the person who killed her ended up marrying her boyfriend. Just a little bet of past history there she needs to get out. I truly do believe that she loves the Chief and she is just acting out the woman scorned thing.
Well I want to write more but this frankly just hurts way too much and that sucks I have a lot more to put out on here. I guess I will wait till I have had another round of pain meds and they wear off so I can get at this again.
February 28th, 2009 at 6:07 pm
i knew that boomer was going to do something like this when when she supposely saved elin tigh….. but be truthly i thought she try and get the f5 with the clyon models 1, 4 and 5…. also how did halo didnt relase that it wasnt athena, athena and boomer might be the same model but they are two different people and did any fell like when boomer was franking halo it looked like a rape seen more than anything else.
@Jack Talbert… one little problem with your theory starbuck is a pilot and also can you rember how to make a new viper mark II from memory even if those memories where download to some kind of cylon computer.
also theres one theory know one has say yet…. what if starbuck is in fact hera ( i know that they havent done time travel yet) or a early Hybrids to evolve during the 40 years that the cylons and the humans were at peace….. but theres a wild card we havent looked at yet what if the Twelve Colonies of man are in fact cylons… hmmm. (but somthing more sick, anders could be starbuck father and all contoled by John Cavil or his sick joke on starbuck and anders.)
@ bsgcast (matt and natt) dont give ReKLinG a free t-shirt.
(joke)
also didnt anyone notice that the brain wave of Anders marched to the song witch starbuck was playing.
February 28th, 2009 at 6:16 pm
So about jumping away…how come the tiny little vipers and raptor weren’t ripped to shreds when the much larger He-Te-Con (or however you spell the name) jumped away in Disquiet? They were just as close (the raptor even moreso) than Boomer’s raptor was. Also, people on the surface of New Caprica would have been roasted when Adama pulled is awsome maneuver in the atmo, would they not? Ah, well. It’s a small detail, after all.
February 28th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
For me I would guess that Kara`s father is not a cylon or human but a 3rd party. I think he is the enemy of the F5 that follow them from F5`s earth to the colonies.
Who ever nuke F5`s earth won that war. Where are they? So IF kara`s father is not Daniel, he is from the F5`s earth but I guess he is not with the F5 but their enemy the one that nuke the planet.
February 28th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
Did anyone else notice that the song that Starbuck’s father was playing just before she accused him of stealing it from another song was the begining of the original theatrical version of Battlestar Galactica? Saga of a Star World
February 28th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
one of the best episodes.
sorry if anyone has already mentioned this. Since the music was the trigger and did activate some sort of memory (brain related) for the final five, and what if it will do the same for Andres. All Kara has to do is play the music and he will come out of coma. Basically he has brain activity he just need the catalyst (the music) to reboot.
can’t wait for next week.
February 28th, 2009 at 7:00 pm
Hey Brian now that you mention that jump with the He Te Con, that is a good point. Maybe the writers had to just damage to Ole Girl alittle more, to drill in our heads that she isn’t going to make it.
Either way its still a great show! Check out All Along the Watchtower at the Roxy on Youtube!
February 28th, 2009 at 7:49 pm
Something to think about: a note with a hollow center is a half-note. Don’t know what conclusion can be drawn from that but….something to think about.
As for the jump causing so much damage to the Galactica. They have made a VERY clear point that the ship will fall apart if it jumps, maybe even if it’s once. The ship had a quake, just from normal activity! Remember that this is just a detail of a technology that doesn’t actually exist and so we can only go by what the show has shown us. If you’re in a fully healthy raptor and you’re right next to a jump, no problem! If you’re a 50 or so year old warship that has been in a war, had a nuclear warhead hit, a jump into atmosphere, and the crap beat out of you on several occasions, even a little raptor jumping away that close to you will hurt.
What’s on my mind is something Anders said. It was when he asked for the other FF so he could talk to them, someone(maybe Kara) responded that Ellen was dead, to which he replied, a bit confused “oh… yes… so many layers”. I assume when he says layers he’s talking about his lives between each resurrection. First was on Earth, then from the ship to the colonies until Cavil killed him, then life on the colonies. I wouldn’t think he would get confused by three layers, since other cylons that have had multiple resurrections and no problem keeping their brains in order. I wonder if he has been through more cycles than just this one and the last. Which made me think, maybe the ‘head characters’ are ‘leftovers’ from previous cycles that have been trying again and again to bring the cycle to a stop, They’re haven’t been able to yet because the “old gods are fighting back” as head six said in season four. Maybe this time they’ll finally get it.
But then again head six also said, and continues to say “All this has happened before, and all this will happen again.”
JP
February 28th, 2009 at 8:43 pm
Hera:
There’s something very mature inside that little girl. I strongly believe that she knew that Boomer was not her mother. But I have little doubt that she is unafraid of the unfolding of the coming events. I find it very interesting that the vision of the opera house does not include Cavil even though it seems that he has his clutches on the little girl now that Boomer stole away with her. I think also that whatever bumps on the head she accrued during that escape will perhaps either unlock or block whatever other worldly power she has within her. If any injury blocks her and leaves her without her usual mysterious gift sight or what have you, she will prove useless to Cavil and thus, not offer any advantage to him. If any injury does unlock more of her gift, she will probably show something to Cavil that will scare or frighten him to do or act in such a way that may lead to his downfall eventually. Either way I doubt that Cavil will have Hera for long.
Kara:
I am convinced she is a hybrid. She is connected to two things: the song, and the nebula. How did that nebula release that radio signal of that song. Was there some weird time convergence Where that song might have played on earth in the past and was linked through the nebula? And the fact that she was consumed by the nebula has to relate to her death on earth and her reemergence. Also, that same nebula/ eye of jupiter showed the faces of the final five at the temple. Ellen attributed it to the fact that the one true god must have something to do with that sense Cavil accused the 5 of doing that themselves. So I hold that the answer to this Nebula should also answer a lot of our questions to do with Kara.
Boomer:
Must die. That is all. I don’t say this because I dislike the character. I say this because from the beginning she was treated as a tool, an instrument. The programming to shoot Adama, the swing vote against her sister 8’s, and now the plot to take Hera’s child. She is about to out live her usefulness and Cavil will kill her. Either that, or she will die in some fateful, tragic, karmic way.
Questions:
Now that Tyrol is a traitor, will the 5 be forced to leave the fleet? Or will they allow human justice to follow its course with Tyrol’s crime. This of course is all contingent if they find out he caused Boomer’s escape.
If the 7 is still present within the fleet, How and why? I mean, Ellen mentions that the pods, or tubes, or whatever it was that they were using to create the 7’s were tampered with, meaning that they were destroyed before forming into mature models. Yet she remembers Daniel as if he was a full formed model. So there has to be a prototype out there somewhere? But wouldn’t Ellen know what happened to it?
What is Lee doing? I ask this question, not to be rhetorical, but to raise the issue of dropping certain storylines and picking up on others. I wish there were some way in which we could briefly address all the plots and or characters at least once within an episode, of course keeping focused on the main plot in the show. I know its hard to do, but it would make each episode flow together a bit better.
Great episode!
February 28th, 2009 at 10:45 pm
Okay,
The final reference to the original series that will be in the final episode will be a cameo by:
Sarah Rush (Rigel)
As mentioned in my earlier comment, this would be the ultimate tie and serverance of the series if this actress were to appear at the console and say “all vipers launched” just as the cylon loving humans get whacked.
February 28th, 2009 at 10:55 pm
How frakking fantastic would it be if once Boomer and Hera get back to Cavil, Hera says something like “God still loves you John.” But she says it in her cute, 3-year old way. It would flip Cavil out. Something like that would be the number one favorite quote from BSG ever.
February 28th, 2009 at 11:50 pm
I’m a little late to comment but I’m going to say it anyway. I FRAKING loved this episode! This is my personal favorite so far of Season 4. Cannot wait to see how’ll end!
Question for M&N: I’m not sure if anyone has asked you this but, once the series is completely over, what is to become of BSGCast? Will you talk about the new series that’s coming out, Caprica, or will you do another TV show to talk about (Lost, Mad Men, The Hills, etc)?
March 1st, 2009 at 1:00 am
I’ve already put my two cents worth in on this episode, which I thought was strong and moved the plot forward if nothing else. Finally, it seems that the coaster is going over the big hill and the real ride is about to start. But there has been something about the title of this episode that still intrigues me.
“Someone to Watch Over Me” is the title to a very popular jazz song(youtube it, its very good), to make a long story short the song involves a woman explaining why she loves the man she does and what she is willing to do for that love. Its nothing big, but I thought it might interest some music lovers aound here. And the lyrics to that song could be interpretted in a way to gain a little insight to many of the interpersonal love storylines in the show. Again nothing super big, but I thought it was a nice nugget.
March 1st, 2009 at 1:46 am
A question and a couple of comments:
Question: Did anyone notice if when on earth, when Starbuck finds her dead body, that had her dog tags, did she still have her dog tags on? So if she died, and resurrected and left them on earth. There wouldn’t be another copy. However if it were some sort of time paradox, she could be wearing them and find them on her body too.
I think Grace Park did an outstanding job of playing two very different characters, amazing.
I think starbucks dad, being a cyclon, Daniel, would explain why he disapeared. If the line was boxed, he could have been taken out of action.
March 1st, 2009 at 2:45 am
THOUGHTS ON S2WOM:
* Kid-Kara is a kutie!! Nice to see the same girl from Maelstrom back again.
* Head-Dad was awesome. My only real problem with this character: if he’s a Head-Dad, and Kara was chatting with him…why did no one think she was nuts? Seriously! She’s talking to him from across the bar, and no one even looks at her twice? She starts clapping for no apparent reason and has a conversation with him, again from across the room, and the bartender doesn’t immediately cut her off?
* Wondering what the significance of his name will be. Dreilide is not a name that’s just been pulled from a hat. Would have been seriously fun if his name had been Daniel. Of course, that wuld just have been spoiling things.
* On first hearing ‘The Music’ in the Ionion Nebula, the Galactica is having power flucations, and loses power. Anyone else find it interesting, that in this episode, while ‘The Music’ is being cemented into its full form the Galactia once more is dead in space? Interesting, no?
* It’s also exceedingly interesting to note, that each time ‘Watchtower’ has played, something BIG has happened with Kara. In the Nebula, Kara returns from the dead, having seen Earth while Watchtower is played. Later in the series, Tigh, Tyrol and Anders are drawn by the music to Kara’s ‘new’ Viper, and Starbuck is the one to discover the signal that leads them to earth. And then, Kara is the one to finally play the music. Kara has definitely got something to do with Watchtower. Her father played it, and it was originally played on Earth, as stated by Anders. So… who composed it? What link does it have to the F5 and to the cybrids Kara and Hera?
* Was nice to see Helo and Starbuck actually interact. First time since the Demetrius arc. Considering they’re meant to be very good buddies, it’s nice to see them talking again. Loved Kara and Hera interacting. Hera is also a lovely mystery which has been very underplayed. Will be nice to see more of Hera’s story and an explanation to her character.
* Hera’s interaction with Boomer: Boomer was worried that Hera would make a fuss about her not being Athena, so shoves the water bottle into her mouth, and tells her to drink it, so she can’t talk. Obviously, the kid could have refused, started crying, threw a tantrum etc. but Hera KNEW that it wasn’t Athena. She went with her anyway. This kid knows a helluva lot more than she should. The song must be important somehow. If only the F5 and the cybrids (heh sounds like a band…) are aware of it, then it’ll be interesting to hear RDM’s final explanation. Looking forward to Hera’s reaction to Cavil and co.
* If Boomer’s plan all along was to get Hera and a Raptor and jump back to the Baseship, how did she know it was ever going to work? Did she count on Tyrol being gullible? Did she know that Nicky wasn’t his son, and showed him to image of a daughter to get him deeper into her web? And can we take a moment to consider the fact that it was Starbuck who suggested to Galen that he should see her? Innocent conversation, or higher plans at work?
* Ellen seems convinced that Sam will wake up, or be of use to find the answers in regards to Hera and the WatchTower. Why doesn’t Ellen know these answers herself? If she has memories of Earth, why doesn’t she already know about the song and why it’s significant.
* Did Cavil mean to give the F5 a trigger? Was it on purpose or was it an accident? The Temple of the Five led the Fleet to the Ionian Nebula, which then woke up the 5 by the song. So…was it Cavil thinking that the trigger would never happen? The Nebula, and the Eye of Jupiter being a lot more than we’ve thought? Cavil could have wiped their memories completely. he could have created a tabula rasa and been done with it. Except that he wanted to punish them. He wanted to teach them a lesson. Except, his lesson seems to have backfired. Instead of making the F5 hate humanity as much as he does, he’s given them the chance to love it instead. His plan was an EPIC FAIL.
* Poor Athena really got screwed over in this ep. She gets the shit kicked out of her, then watches her husband frakking her evil twin, and then loses her poor kid. And Helo? This poor guy is never getting lair ever again. I really felt for Helo in this ep. He just couldn’t catch a break. But shirtless Helo? WIN.
* Kara’s enthusiasm for being CAG really needs a boost. I get that we’re meant to see who over it she is, and that she needs a burst of hope, but seriously…surely Tigh or Adama would have called her to the carpet. She’s doing nothing to boost morale for those pilots. Helo in his lecture on what not to do had a lot of enthusiasm for the job…perhaps he should lend Starbuck some of his feist.
* Good to finally get some sort of explanation about the consequences of the mutiny. They finally came out and said that they were short-staffed and had to fly with less pilots. I can’t recall them actually mentioning anything about the disappearance of so many characters in the previous episodes. Correct me if I’m wrong please?
* All in all, good episode. Of course, after lasts weeks, they could have shown just about anything, and it would have been better. But, looking forward to the coming eps.
March 1st, 2009 at 6:33 am
Hi guys,
away from this episode… but what happened to the original toasters?
The F5 stopped the war by showing how to do the skin-job resurrection. That gives the F7/8 group which gets taken over by Cavil.
BUT the Mark #1 toasters stood-down. So, did they get upgrades to become the new toaster model – or did Cavil just build new machines and leave the Mark #1’s behind, when he goes off to start a new war?
**!!** I’m just noticing that CG time has been spent on forming the old toaster models and ships. Why, apart for a 2 second clip? Should we expect to see a return of the Mark #1 Cylons?
Could it be that the Mark #1’s consider themselves at peace and may object to Cavil continuing the war? Might they get involved at some point? Do they see Cavil as a war-mongering traitor who has abandoned them, taking the F7/8 and all the new machines? The Mark #1’s may feel nothing good for Cavil and may choose to oppose him. IF they still exist…
…just an idea
March 1st, 2009 at 9:14 am
Hi everyone!
This episode was so great compared to the last one!
Boomer manipulated everyone, especially the chief. I really hoped that she loved him so that she would have accepted better her humanity.
Concerning the Helo/ Boomer sex scene, let ’s not forget that in the episode the “hub” she admitted to him that she’s got Athena’s memories. It explains how she was able to hide her identity to Helo and Hera. But I guess Athena will have hard time forgiving him!
The piano scene with Kara and her dad (maybe Daniel?) was excellent. Very well done, intense. The last 3 minutes were my favorite ones.
I’m hoping this song and the drawing of Hera (a kind of map with stars) will lead us somewhere… a new planet for human and cylon to survive…
I can’t wait for the new episode!!!!
March 1st, 2009 at 9:31 am
I’m in the minority on this but I thought this episode continued to do a lot of nothing storywise. tyrol letting boomer go had to have been the most moronic thing he ever did — you don’t have to step in sh*t twice to know it stinks, but boy he stepped in it and managed to track it all over the rug. I dunno. I just felt underwhelmed by the whole thing, especially when there’s only 3 episodes left. I thought the piece of ‘art’ hera gave to starbuck would turn out to be some star chart or something. does this prove kara’s a cylon then?
March 1st, 2009 at 10:11 am
First of all, point of clarification. Hera’s connection Six and Athena has nothing to do with blood. It is the Cylon projection thing. Only Laura has the blood connection. Also, Athena doesn’t have the same body that gave birth to Hera. Helo put a bug hole in that one. She has a new body and there must be some other way that Hera is able to recognize her mother.
Not to shoot holes in RDM’s story but, Tigh says he fought in both Cylon wars. How did he do that if when her got to the 12 Colonies he and the other F5’s stopped the Toasters from fighting with the colonist? That just bothers me now since the “no exit” ep, because Cavil was not even created until the war was over. But he suppositely put Tigh on Caprica to meet and fight next to Adama or is this just a planted memory?
Next week it looks like the 6’s & 8’s will get their way and plug Anders into the data stream. And maybe we will understand why Hybrids reach up and grab people who get to close. It looks like he will grab Starbuck and……….
The main question is why does Cavil want Hera. Is it to lay a trap for the F5 to come and give him the secrets to resurrection tech, or is he going to use her is some way to help defeat the rebels and humans? Why does Cavil seem to know more than anyone else? It is almost like he is the one pulling the strings to make things go his way. The F5 to this point have been a little disappointing. The conversation they had in Joe’s Bar is a perfect example of how they are a little whimpy. They do not want to interfere with the rebels affairs. These are there children they need to lay down the hammer, or drop some elbows from the top rope. The F5 have no powers over their kids, thats sad : P . Further more Cavil seems to be the blame for much of the Cylons bad decisions because he knew the truth all along and he tried to hide it and keep it a secret from everyone and that is why resurrection got taken away from him. He is caught up in in so much sin that he can’t see straight. And God has given and taken away a lot from him.
Anyway, That’s all for me folks. ‘Til next week.
Kept fighting them until you can’t!
March 1st, 2009 at 11:32 am
No Starbuck answers….just more questions (Head-Daniel?).
I suspect that we don’t get a solution on most of the storylines in the few episodes left.
Maybe the leave something up for a Razor like Episode for DVD distribution.
Just 3 to go. How should that work with more and more questions every episode?
Let’s wait and see.
I really hope that the end will satisfy most of us fans and BSG addicts.
March 1st, 2009 at 11:37 am
I’m a newcomer to this series, and maybe I’m taking this way out there, but I’m a mother, including of a toddler. The question I have is, why aren’t the children in more secure settings? Isn’t little Hera already the victim of mutineer targeting, cylon kidnapping, human kidnapping, etc., stuff that would make her an obvious target for added security at her school? It almost seems like there aren’t many parents with kids in real life daycare or school writing for this show where kids are concerned.
How do the young people who are the future of humanity, let alone Hera, get less security than you get on a cruise ship or at Chuck E Cheese; where all of your kids have to wear an armband or a handstamp that matches only you?
From the little I’ve seen over the last year, there were at least two instances where someone walked off with someone else’s kid, and nothing seems to happen. Where did Tory deposit Tyrol/Hotdog’s son when she shot the Mama out of the airlock? (seriously, I really want to know. Did they show it and I missed it, because that’s possible. I do have a toddler.) No one noticed that baby was just chilling with a non-family member like that? How does a woman with multiple identical copies get to come pick up her kid without some sort of security set up? Better still, how does a mother in that situation not request it? And why didn’t the Admiral and the President immediately talk about the security of Hera when Boomer landed, especially with Ellen saying Cavil was “unbalanced” about biological reproduction being the future of Cylons?
I seem to recall Roslin in the miniseries re-directing Adama about the best hope for humanity not to become extinct. It wasn’t in war, it was in the birth of children. It would seem to me that kids in that situation are as precious as water for the future. What is the security set-up for kids? Is everyone just so war-weary that the kids are no longer seen as a priority? I’m pretty puzzled.
I’m not saying worship children, but come on. If this were my neighborhood, and a previously twice kidnapped, targeted toddler who once upon a time had a medical condition that went untreated by kidnappers were to come to the attention of Child Protective Services here, there’d be a whole plan about her future.
March 1st, 2009 at 1:26 pm
Great episode!
I love it when they contrast images from Galactica with images of a nice, sunny home on Caprica. I understand that everything is getting very bad and very dark, but you can’t appreciate how bad things really are unless we are shocked and reminded of how beautiful/good things used to be. I love the return to this contrast (like we saw in season 1 with Baltar).
A lot of people seem to think that Boomer kidnapping Hera is all part of John’s plan…and it makes a lot of sense because John needs Hera as a bargaining chip to force the FF to re-recreate the ressurection technology (he believed Ellen when she said that she didn’t know the whole picture). It’s all very neat and tidy, but that’s why I’m going to shy away from that idea.
I think that Boomer is acting on her own–that whole free-will thing that Ellen was talking to her about–and has changed sides to join the other Rebel cylons (even if she appears to be acting against them). I believe that Boomer knows that Hera is HER bargaining chip with John. Instead of secretly handing Hera over to John, she will reveal Hera to the rest of the cylon fleet. The cylon civil war started over the idea of removing free choice from the raiders, and Boomer is going to go back to revisit that argument and show the remaining models that John has done the same thing to manipulate them, hide the FF and keep them all under his control. The remaining cylons will rebel against their masters (the Johns) and will head out to meet the fleet.
Hopefully they will meet and the FF will actually know something by then–rather than walking around looking dazed and confused.
Everything is happening so fast simultaneously…There are so many balls to juggle here in this series that it gets annoying when they have to put a couple of them down just in order to tell part of the story. For example, Baltar got his shipment of guns in the last episode, but there isn’t any room to talk about it in this most recent one. It really goes to show how hard it is to end a series like this that is so full of life (life never ends in one final episode, tying up all loose ends), so this ending has to be really forced/contrived.
Every good story needs a beginning and an end….even ones about never-ending cycles.
March 1st, 2009 at 2:34 pm
I haven’t been able to read all the posts yet, so I apologize if this has been already brought up, but if it hasn’t I believe it must be brought to light.
I believe that we have all come to accept the idea of Kara being a Lord of Kobol just a little too easily. I think it sounds cool, and clears up a lot of questions about her, but I just don’t see it being true. In order to understand why I believe this lets go through three factors, evidence for her being a Lord of Kobol, the small amount of time left, and her connection to Daniel. I hope that by reading this we can all not just jump on the Lord of Kobol bandwagon and start basing theories on more logical conclusions.
Many of you have been doing a lot of outside research on Greek mythology and are finding all these similarities between Kara and different Gods, but honestly, with the vastness of the amount of Greek Gods and Goddesses, these are bound to come up. These Gods and Goddesses were meant to represent a certain personality type, you start digging through them, and you are bound to come up with similarities. You look to find particular traits that match up with Kara’s character; you discuss them, and ignore the rest. This is just like what happens when you believe in the astrology. People pick vague and at times contradicting personality traits, you look at them and say, “hey yeah, that is just like me.” And you start to believe in a false idea. It is a waste to look to outside sources for an answer, look at the primary source of the show first, and then you can draw upon outside sources. And the show has made no claims that the Lords of Kobol are out and about affecting the lives of the humans, or the cylons. In fact, it has claimed the opposite; the only higher being that one can claim to have been doing anything is that of the one true God. Therefore I submit that the only indication of Kara being a Lord of Kobol has been coming through fan generated ideas, and not ideas presented in the show. Now let’s focus fully on the reality of the show.
The harsh reality is that there are only three episodes left. Hera has been taken, Anders is in a coma, Galactica is falling apart, Roslin seems to be dying again, and Cavil is still out there. With all of these major conflicts flying around, I find it difficult that enough time can be spent in the last three episodes to make us understand, one that Kara is a Lord of Kobol, two what a Lord of Kobol is exactly, and three what does it mean to have these Lords of Kobol, along with a one true God. The revelation that Kara is a Lord of Kobol would be huge. She would not be human or cylon, but something totally different. That seems to out there in left field for me to believe in. When the theory first came out, I was intrigued I admit, as I believe we all were. It truly made a lot of sense and seemed like a road they could easily go down. But ultimately in the final episodes, with no mention or foreshadowing of the Lords of Kobol, it just doesn’t fit. But if that doesn’t fit, what does fit?
Let’s look at simply what the show has told us about Kara, and things that match up with her being something more than human. Kara painted the Eye of Jupiter since she was a kid, an obvious link to something higher. And on the Demetrious she again was able to basically paint the future. Obviously her tap into the higher realm is in art. What foreshadow have we recently seen that talks about art? Daniel. The little we know about Daniel is that he was an artist, and something happened which landed him in a permanent box. After “someone to watch over me” I believe it is made quite obvious that Daniel is Kara’s father. Making her partly Cylon, just like Hera. We have already seen Hera do similar things, such as paint the musical notes to All Along the Watchtower, and Ellen said she is tapped into something larger, just like Kara. And don’t you think an early Cavil would be pretty pissed at Daniel for wanting to live among the humans, enough to love another and produce a child, enough so to box the entire line? I believe that is much more possible.
The conclusions that Kara is somehow a Lord of Kobol are completely unfounded in terms of the revelations that have come through in the show itself. Nowhere has the dialogue, action, or even the mythos of the show itself pointed to Lords of Kobol walking among the people. The only real evidence that has been presented to us to support this claim comes to us from outside the show itself, and is therefore not as credible. For the sheer amount of time that is left in BSG, a fully satisfying revelation of Kara being a Lord of Kobol is not possible. No hints have led up to it, making the reveal of such a mind blowing idea seem more lame, than anything else. I ask that we stop blindly following the notion of her being some sort of Lord of Kobol, and focus more on what the show is telling us about her. Looking at her connection with Daniel and the similarities she shares with Hera, will help us to better understand what Kara truly is, because these are facts that have been presented to us in the show itself. While the notion of her being a Lord of Kobol, was a thought provoking and truly interesting angle, it has been given no support from the show, and we must therefore look for other explanations as to what exactly Kara is.
March 1st, 2009 at 2:53 pm
I think the Cavil’s need to be boxed. I also wonder back to when Cavil used to get those blinding headaches everytime he downloaded. He is evil. Hera’s exploitation really bothers me here.
And that Frakken song is back! Actually that was a great thread in the story. Can’t wait to see more twists and turns with Starbuck’s psyche.
I am so sorry this ride is over in a few weeks. I was always an Original BSG fan and will enjoy my DVD sets until they are worn out. This new series has set a benchmark. I have really enjoyed television because of it.
I have enjoyed reading all of the posts for this Off World Reality. Stimulating conversation! I will miss you all when it is over.
Cari J. in Calif
March 1st, 2009 at 4:28 pm
Hi,
more ramblings. Fleet has STILL not jumped from Earth so they are by a resurrection system (the one that rebirthed Kara). Perhaps with an old style Basestar? Would be handy if that had some captured Colonial fighters…
Anyhow. Perhaps Daniel is orchestrating everything from there, so to oppose Cavil; that’s how come Kara got put back together LESS her full memories (else she’d remember being killed). The old Basestar supplied a captured fighter; this was fixed up to look like Kara’s.
Insufficient data for an analysis of Boomer’s FTL jump / crash; anyhows they are still near Earth so will get resurrected – even if bodies are found. Expect a double coffin episode soon for extra tear-jerking.
Chief. Well, what now for him? He has 3 options – stay silent, confess (to who?) or hide on the Basestar (which to my eye is looking more and more fixed in recent shots). A whole world of hurt.
So my money is on the F5 lab to be in Earth orbit / on the Moon / at least in Sol system, with an old Basestar, Daniel and some recent resurrectees. Hm, perhaps even those mutineers……
The surprise awaiting is – what happens with Cavil? How many ships does he have, what will he do next? Did Boomer get back / did she report how beat-up the Fleet is?
…and why oh why have no other ships been checked for metal fatigue???
Steve
March 1st, 2009 at 4:47 pm
Kara’s death is bothering me.
How do any of us no for sure that she ever died?
Lee Adama and the rest of us watched her Viper explode in Maelstrom. Her co-pilot
was a Head Leobon. He helped her accept death.
On Earth when she finds her corpse in the cockpit, Leobon is with her. What, she couldnt bring Anders or Lee with her. I wouldnt be surprised it this were a Head Leobon too. Playing more head games to make Kara accept death. We all have to agree that she had become more ruthless since seeing her corpse.
This line of thought makes me wonder if most of her interactions werent Head Leobons (Excluding the Leobon she spaced). The one on New Caprica that made her think she had a child and she kept killing, could have been the first Head Leobon.
………………………..
Kara is the harbinger and will lead them to their end and a new beginning, Perhaps a catalyst to the cycle……..
I think Kara (Or some form of Kara) has been around since the very first cycle. Perhaps she is the very first Cylon.
Her presence is necessary to bridge the cycles. No Kara Thrace – no cycle. I think her death is necessary to end all of these war.
She might be a victim or tool of Beings of Light or Lords of Kobol in their attempt to continue or end the cycle…….. The Head Leobons might be trying to end her life to end the cycle – thus the head games to have her accept death. Only to have another group revive her.
…………….
Kara Thrace could have been around when Earth was nuked, and she was a sign to the F5 that this was going to happen. Allowing them to escape. Allowing the cycle to continue.
Knowing Watchtower is a necessary part of this. Perhaps this is a trigger for the F5 implanted in her by them or some other group to alert them to danger.
Some element of the 12 colonies or of Kobol, Cylon or Human, travelled to Earth and nuked it. Kara Thrace may have been with them.
The above 2 ideas is why she is able to draw the Ionian Nebula, and travel to Earth. She has travelled this route before. Perhaps dozens of times. It is necessary to travel between the colonies and Earths(s) to be a sign of doom.
March 1st, 2009 at 5:23 pm
CJ, I think the shock wave occurs only at the start of a jump (starting point of jump) and not at the end (destination of jump). If you notice in the episode where the Raptor is trying to dock with the Tylium ship, and it jumps away, the 2 Vipers and the Raptor are pushed away by the shockwave of the jump.
It has happened in Razor too, when the Pegasus jumped when she was docked at Scorpion Fleet Shipyards and sucked in a whole bunch of stuff while jumping. I think the pushing vs sucking is just a matter of mass, Pegasus being a lot bigger than the Tylium ship.
As for this ep, I liked it, though I agree it dragged a bit too long with the Kara-Kara’s Father arc. I also agree with previous comments that said the Final Five are just sitting around doing nothing and that Helo’s character was messed up by this ep as he couldnt tell the difference between Athena and Boomer. At the very least, he should have noticed a difference in their fracking styles! lol
I must say the end of this episode left me hanging almost as much as a 2-parter. it seemd a “to be continued…” would have been appropriate here.
I just hope 3 episodes is enough to put all the different pieces of the puzzle together. Because there sure are a LOT of pieces floating around the table right now…
But in defense of the writers, they cant develop ALL the character arcs. They have very limited air-time, they must focus on one or two each episode.
Though I must say Season 4 has destroyed Baltar’s character ever since He That Believeth In Me and the little exchange between Baltar and Tyrol when they had that “talk” in Tyrol’s room.
That was the Batlar I was hoping to see througout Season 4, but the writers are just wasting time and making a mistake focusing so much on that BS cult of his and making him frak even more variations of Six in the middle of the fight for the survival of entire civilizations.
Adalla
March 1st, 2009 at 5:28 pm
I just wanted to point out that there are a whole lot of parallels between “Someone to Watch Over Me” and “Flight of the Phoenix” (se02ep09). It would be interesting to do a real side-by-side comparison of the two. Here are a few things that caught my attention (in no particular order): both dealt in no small measure with the Helo/Athena/Boomer/Chief relationship (particularly the baby fetish); the Chief shows a preference for a large crescent wrench when he needs an club; a battlestar is on the fritz because of Cylon infiltration (logic bomb/Anders); the Chief talks to an 8 in the brig via the intercom. The list goes on…
March 1st, 2009 at 6:50 pm
I just got back from MegaCon and man, what a day! I’ve been flying high on goodness the whole day, starting off with the Battlestar Galactica panel. In fact, I got to meet Matt and Nat there! I got the whole one hour panel there. Afterwards, I talked with Matt and Nat about the episode a bit, as well as got to tell them a bit about my machinima comic book fan fiction series with them and even got a picture with them. I’m going to be posting a video that summarizes my whole day at the Con, as well as video of the panel (and after spotting Matt and Nat, they’ll be posting videos about the panel too). I was surprised to find out that there was no Frak Party in Orlando for Matt and Nat to go to, to which they were also surprised about. Bit of a bummer. I got Lucianna Carro’s autograph, picked up an official pair of BSG Dogtags (I got the Sharon Agathon dogtags), a BSG patch, three issues of the “Battlestar Galactica” comic series I was missing and a picture of the Cylon Centurion replica, amongst other things. I can’t wait to get the “My Day at MegaCon” video up on YouTube, which I will proceed to post my panel vid (I apologize to Mr. Benedict, you are right about the Internet). Frakkin’ AWESOME!!
March 1st, 2009 at 8:19 pm
okay i know lot of people beilve tha small ship like the Colonial Raptor could do that much damage but rember Galactica is over 50 years old… also add with a nuclear bomb explosion, an explosion in the water tank, a Cylon suicide bomber, alactica jumps into the upper atmosphere, being hit by massive levels of radiation through passage, missing a sun going supernova and being hit by cylon wepons for 4 years (not forgeting the first cylon war)…. its a merical she still can move… so one little Colonial Raptor jumping force can do that but also if u check that same area were boomer jumped way was also the same plays were the nuclear bomb hitted in the miniseries….. plus u forgeting that Ronald D. Moore is rush the ending.
March 1st, 2009 at 9:04 pm
Fantastic episode. have a few thoughts… many of which have probably been said on here over and over… but honestly the comments are so in depth and so long I never get through them all. Really cool that a show can be good enough to get this kinda responce and this kinda fan activity and thanks to BSGcast for creating the format for us to talk about our crazy theories.
I think that the whole Cylon reproduction thing is going to come down to love. Sounds sappy.. but hear me out.
The timeline is a bit difficult to pin down but we know at some point John (Cavil) wiped out the Daniels and messed with their DNA… and we also know that Daniel was Elens favourite… so lets assume that either Daniel had interaction with the humans in the colonies when the Five had just begun creating the other cylons…
I believe that Daniel is the father of Kara.. and her half brother. Now lets assume that either Daniel’s “boxing” came after he had relationships on earth and fathered Kara… that he was then boxed which is why he “left the family” etc. Or if the timeline won’t allow this lets assume his position as Elen’s favourite meant he had special knowledge on resurrection that John didn’t and a copy survived somehow. Daniel had kara… and (now that he was alone and had no hope of ever downloading again with his line all mutated) he began to invest in his new (and only) life. The cylons are different from men in one way. They cannot love… and they cannot is because they themselves accept that they are machines. They constantly remind themselves that they are replications of life and the very nature of love does not compute and does not work… they question it and they find themselves rejecting it. they have such self doubt and such self loathing that they cannot concieve (Tigh’s baby died because Caprica Six questioned her place and questioned her ability to love the baby just as Tigh was struggling to come to terms with it himself. He couldn’t express the love for his child and even though Elen tried to step in it was too late) the one child that has survived (Although we better hope their are air holes in that box) did so because the cylones forced Athena and Helo into a relationship of love.
So Daniel finds himself in the colonies… he has Starbuck and he loves her. he teaches her to play the piano.
This makes Starbuck half cylon… and explains how when she dies on Earth she is “downloaded” and brought back presumably at this myseterois lab facility that Elen mentioned. There she gets a new ship from the last remainign Daniel and is sent back to bring her people home or to give them hope or something along those lines. Either the rebirth causes her to lose parts of this memory like the Final Five, her dad chooses to have her forget or the journey itself makes her forget.Now she has her very own “head guide” in the shape of her father to remind her of the true way home.
Oh and her brother? Guis Baltar. Would explain his own “head guide” and follow through with Ron’s new obsession with incest! A theory without any flaws!
(Waits for the many wise people to pick apart his theory)
Lex
March 1st, 2009 at 10:45 pm
Rebelsnoopy said:
Kara is the harbinger and will lead them to their end and a new beginning, Perhaps a catalyst to the cycle……..
**
I think that it is just the contrary. That when the hybrid told her that she was the harbinger of death, it might have meant death to the cycle. Kara just might play a key role in stopping all of this. I also keep thinking about how the hybrid was smiling as she said this to her, making me think that the “death” of which she speaks was not a bad one but a much needed one.
March 1st, 2009 at 11:20 pm
this is the kind of slow episode you can really get away with in this series.
it’s also the kind of episode you know just got better and better as different people saw it. the excellent writing team of David Weddle and Bradley Thompson produced a wonderful script in collaboration with composer Bear McCreary, which came to the fantastic director Richard Nankin and all these great forces in the industry meshed, and Someone to Watch Over Me was the result.
i can’t say enough about how great this episode was constructed and directed. i have to start with Bear McCreary. more than any other composer in the industry, McCreary puts his mark in the show. galactica’s music has only been getting better and better as the season goes on. the opening sequence; fantastically scored. McCreary’s non-musical contributions to the episode; the off-tune piano, Slick coming off as a unique yet cliched character all at the same time were also outstanding. compare this episode to anything Michael Giaccino has done for ‘lost’, and its just so easy to see why McCreary is the best in the biz right now.
along with every other person who worked on this episode! Richard Namkin. a round of applause please! the opening five minutes can’t be his alone. it belonged to Bear. it belonged to Katee Sackhoff. it belonged to Weddle and Thompson. it belonged to Stephen McNutt and Stewart Schill, Cinematographer and Film Editor, respectively. the opening sequence of Starbuck going through the motions of hopeless life were the best 4 minutes of television i’ve ever seen. repeating the duties of CAG endlessly, staring her own dead face in the mirror down every morning. just wow.
as far as story goes. Boomer tricking everyone. who didn’t see that coming? Roslin did. “sharon valeri preys on emotion”. i felt like an idiot when i didn’t immediately guess that Sharon was using projection to manipulate Tyrol. i really believed she wanted that. i felt like Boomer manipulated me. as chief started to trust her, i started to trust her. as we found out what she was up to all along, i felt as betrayed as all of them. curse you, Boomer, you’ll rue the day you crossed the ragtag fleet and stole its most important child.
Anders’ neurological readings are unprecedented. maybe we should give Doctor PC a field trip over the basestar to compare Anders’ readings with a hybrids. maybe they have? maybe they’re still unprecedented. i really liked that Starbuck has grown closer with Anders since he’s been shot. she doesn’t rely on Lee in these hard times, she relies on the man she married, the one who needs her. Starbuck finally playing for keeps with her love.
Slick. Dreilide. Neither of those sound like Daniel to me. Dreilide knew the last song played on Earth. Anders played that song for the woman he loved. he didn’t say he wrote it. who did he love? 100% of the final females are taken. Anders also looks like he’d lose in a fight to Tigh and Tyrol if he messed with their women. so who did Anders love? Starbuck? Socrata? Umm.. maybe someone taught him that song. maybe Starbuck doesn’t so much as know the Final Five’s song as the Final Five know Starbuck’s song.
i think a major plot hole was demonstrated this episode with the introduction of FTL as a weapon. yeah, it works within the parameters of the show. but why haven’t cylon raiders been kamikazee’ing FTL style into galactica before? that sounds like a better weapon than say.. bullets. i’ll bite. shine on you crazy Boomer, your days are numbered.
March 2nd, 2009 at 1:56 am
@Dustin Bell: You forgot to credit Roark Critchlow and his spellbinding performance and Kara’s dad. I think it’s one of the strongest entrances for a new important character I have seen this close to the end of the story in a long time. I also like your theory about how maybe the final five knows Kara’s song rather then her knowing their song, very nice. Music is a universal language much like mathematics is and McCreary needs to get an emmy for how he incorporated music right into the story and also made it a major plot device too.
March 2nd, 2009 at 2:46 am
Hello everyone…
I’ve only skimmed the previous posts, so I apologize if this point was already made…
I’d like to point out that the only piece that we’ve ever definitely heard from Kara’s father, (AKA: the disk Starbuck played for Helo in her old apartment) was actually from Earth. That song is called Metamorphosis 1, by Philip Glass. You can hear it by clicking my name.
So, setting aside any and all speculation that Dreilide might be Daniel, or some other model, we can definitely say that Dreilide has some kind of connection to Earth, Just as the final five(four?) remembered another old song from their last lives.
March 2nd, 2009 at 8:13 am
In the second scene with the projection. Tyrol after getting the glasses for the wine, notices the age/height chart on the side of the hallway. You should recheck this bit. 6 months, 1 year, 2 years, 2 years 4 mounths, 3 years, 3 years 5 months, 3 years 9 months, 4 yrs, 5 years, 6 yrs and then at the very top of the chart “- Seven”. The word Seven is written out as a name would be. There is a line to the left of the word “Seven” which points to Boomer. The camera pans up the list and then over to her. Clue?
March 2nd, 2009 at 10:06 am
Not sure if someone has pointed this out, way to many posts to check.
Watch the last part of where Kara is playing with her dad sitting next to her.
Her arm is hidden behind him, while they are playing (Looking like its her arm playing through his)
and then when the camera moves and she gets startled by the others you look back and her arm is exactly in the same place as her dads.
Was just a really good attention to detail I wanted to point out.
BSG is definitely worth watching epps 2 or more times to pick up on these little things.
Clint.
March 2nd, 2009 at 10:26 am
GREAT episode, all what one would expect from the best of BSG.
Sufficed to say it makes last week’s all the more painful. PAINFUL. Jane sucks as a writer.
You could have done the same plot last week, but with Ellen being true to who she has become, as she was in this new episode. That is, no stupid sex scene with Tighe as soon as she sees him, no drunken BS….She could have been quietly accepting that Caprica was pregnant and then we could have had a scene where she quietly grieved that alone, rubbing her belly, etc.
She could have then later voted with Tory and Chief to leave (again, telling Saul that in front of everyone and Caprica) and had Saul react the same way (”we have to stay with the fleet”) and Ellen then saying quietly to Caprica at that point (or later, when they are alone) “You see, he loves his uniform and Adama more than he loves you. You were just a way to help him try to figure out who he is” and then Caprica losing the baby. Then Ellen goes to Tighe and says “I am so sorry, I voted to leave just for spite, just to show her you didn’t really love her. I am so sorry Saul, I didn’t know the baby would die.” And she tries to comfort him and he stumbles away to his true friend, Adama.
THAT should have been how the episode went. Ellen as dignified yet still prey to her human emotions.
Saul would have went to Adama needing double comfort of losing the baby and being betrayed by Ellen.
Oh well.
I loved the ‘All Along the Watchtower” – I wasn’t expecting that. But of course, of course.
March 2nd, 2009 at 10:30 am
Oh Man. First off:
“Frak you Boomer, for playing with my emotions. Had my heart swaying like waves in an ocean. To rip out my lungs, air’s true devotion, that’s cold.”
After watching SEVERAL times I realized that what I thought was a slow start to an awesome episode was in fact, a masterpiece of several layers. Throughout the entire episode you could tell that not only several stories were being told, but several ideas were being express, along with several messages that somehow say the same thing. (we’ll find out in the final episodes). Everything from Tigh going through his thing, Tyrol (the heart of galactica) getting royally frakked, Galactica getting royally frakked by the Raptor’s FTL’n all over her hull (sic), Starbuck (although it’s been done many times before in sci-fi) talking to the piano playing ghost of her dad-head creature-mind frak, not to mention the WAY they did the music (having Starbuck be the one playing the whole time.)
The entire episode. Simply poetic.
Frak you Boomer. You can keep the Frakkin’ statue!
March 2nd, 2009 at 11:11 am
And I am feeling more and more that we don’t need any explanation for Starbuck’s death. I am not caring much anymore. She is back and evolving and that’s all that matters to me.
And we just might not get an explanation anyway.
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:08 pm
Even before Galactica found Earth I had a theory that all the humans were some form of Cylon, they just forgot who they were. The 13th tribe was presumably all Cylons, both humanoid and Centurion. The 13th tribe came from Kobol just as the the other 12 did. My theory is that all humans are actually Cylons and that when they lived on Kobol with the Gods peacefully the Gods were actually Humans. They lived peacefully on Kobol with the Gods (humans) until the Gods started to take advantage of the Cylons so the Cylons left their world of Kobol and founded the 13 colonies. Just like the Cylons the final five created wanted to be like the Humans they revolted against, the original Cylons wanted to be like the Gods that used them and they continued the culture and beliefs they experienced on Kobol. Over time all the tribes lost their identity (except for the 13th) and started to believe their history on Kobol was stuff of myths and legends and they forgot the Gods were humans and they were Cylons. Overtime they their own culture as humans and eventually started to do what the Gods did to them, building artificial life and making them into servants. This time instead of the servants just leaving after being used, they started a war. The reason the original humans (Gods of Kobol) were seen as Gods was because they not only created the original humanoid Cylons but because they created organic memory transfer (they were essentially immortal), the “reserection” technology the final five rediscovered before they got Nuked. All humans are some form of Cylon, just with varying differences just like humans. As for the “head” people like head six, baltar and the Piano player in Kara’s head, perhaps they are the Cylon versions of a persons consciences. If they can 3d project themselves into day dreams like Chief and Boomer projecting into their house why not project their conscience? It would explain how head six held up Baltar after he got struck by the Marine stopping him from entering his room and how it forced him to do other things physically as well. His sub-conscience made him do it with his higher conscience perceived it as a head six doing it. The situation with Starbuck resurrecting on Earth could be due to the final five’s experiments during redeveloping organic memory transfer into resurrection technology. Perhaps the resurrection technology created by the final five didn’t just recreate the memories and download them into new bodies but recreated entire bodies as well (kinda like photo coping a document and filling in the document with information after copying it), this way centurions could be resurrected too. A machine that can scan, copy and memory download a humanoid Cylon and a Centurion could recreate a Viper as well as Starbucks body and personally belongings. It would make sense why the logs in the Viper didn’t show anything and were blank. The Viper was just created but the software not programed because the resurrection technology (ship, node, computer or what ever resurrected her) didn’t have information on a Viper and didn’t know how to fill in the blanks of it’s software or program information after copying it. These are just my thoughts feel free to discuss and dissect.
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:29 pm
why is it we just see 4 of the final five at the same time. maybe anders wakes up in the last episode and the five meets in the oprahouse.
and baltar and six saved Hera from boomer and cavil. but what is that about the kasset caled something about oprahouse?????
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:43 pm
“All this has happened before and it will happen again.”
Both Kara and Hera are hybrids. Think about it.
Both have drawn pictures as children. Maybe the next step in evolution from Human & Cylon is what the Lords of Kobol attained – resurrection without technology.
March 2nd, 2009 at 4:18 pm
What the frak is going on? I am not saying that Deadlock like the first have of the final season was a complete waste but that is my point.
Well I think that it is clear that Hera may not be the only hybrid on the show. Unless Starbuck went through a time warp then that is the only answer to the fact that her father [Mr. Thrace] taught her that song which she remembers and Hera wrote down.
I also think that Liam down loaded to Anders which is the result of the funny brain waves but hey. I was wrong about Tom Z being the 5th, although I did always think Ellen was a Cylon.
I love this show, I don’t know why it has to end, nor do I understand why it has to end this way. Maybe it will all be explained in the last three episodes, but I doubt it.
March 2nd, 2009 at 6:26 pm
For anyone in Houston, the Alamo Drafthouse at West Oaks will be showing the final episodes every Friday. We’re gonna drop off baby Anders (named after BSG’s Anders) at Grandmas and have a night out for the last two episodes. It’ll be great to watch it on the big screen.
http://www.drafthouse.com/westoaks/shows.php?id=296
March 2nd, 2009 at 6:42 pm
Too bad Roark (the actor who played the piano player/composer) wasn’t on the show as a regular – he’s GREAT.
You guys have to read Bear McCreary’s blog on this episode – fascinating stuff. Bear is SUCH an INCREDIBLE treasure.
March 2nd, 2009 at 7:38 pm
“All this has happened before and it will happen again.”
The whole thing turns out to be a performance at the opera house?
One thing I noticed in this episode: Kara’s shoulder tattoo seemed to be displayed more than usual. According to the Battlestar Wiki, she and Anders got these tattoos as a matching pair. With their arms around each other they make one symbol. See: http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Tattoo#Tattoos
There seemed to be a lot of shots of Kara in the mirror. The shots in Joe’s Bar where there is a mirror next to her made me think of the old saying, “It’s all done with smoke and mirrors.”
On the cover of the CD or cassette of Kara’s father, he is wearing the same hat that Slick had on the piano.
The reville call with “sweepers man your brooms” is standard on any U.S. Navy ship. What isn’t standard, and would never be tolerated on any ship under way, is letting the water run in the shower.
Isn’t it strange that:
They’re running out of toothpase, but everyone has plenty of cigarettes?
The ship looks like crap, but Lee’s suit is always pressed?
March 2nd, 2009 at 7:48 pm
Hey all,
was the piano player really there? Some people are saying that Kara was imagining him, projecting or whatever. I can’t remember if he was there when Tigh grabbed her arm. But it would make sense that he wasn’t there, as I could not imagine her telling her secret to a stranger, when she hasn’t told Lee yet. The secret being, that I found my body and sent it to heaven?
thoughts?
A
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:57 pm
Has anyone thought of the possibility that maybe the ship that Ellen was talking about might be the Hub? I mean, that would explain why Cavil dosen’t understand ressurection (ie The colonial cylons never created resurection technology, only re-routed it to the smaller ressurection ships) That would also explain why the Hub was the only backup for the entire ressurection network. Also, maybe Ellen and the others CAN’T remake the technology, I mean Ellen only got her memories back after she RESSURECTED. Maybe it’s gone for good…
March 2nd, 2009 at 10:03 pm
@Athena- He was there when Tigh touched Kara. However, he didn’t just show up out of the blue. In the episode, “Deadlock”, we see him in the background at the piano, which is where Starbuck first asks about the piano. Now, we know that when it comes to head characters, in general, we’ve only seen them in the their of the mind (i.e. Baltar’s house, empty Galactica) or while the people are doing typical things. Starbuck is becoming more of an exception because she has had a head character in her dream and when she’s been unconscious. This is the piano player is the second head character for Starbuck that we’ve seen in her waking state, the first being the younger version of herself in “Maelstrom”.
March 3rd, 2009 at 1:44 am
oh geez,,
like I said it wasnt earth, ( human populated) and we are still following the TRUE bsg line from the pre 80s,, pre 1980,,,,but mixed in with all the left overs of galatica 1980,,,,,,, everyone here is sofa king we tard ed thats its a joke——–yes I love the storyline,,,,,but we all know the Cavil is the dark prince, and there are a few beings of light, and StarBuck fixes a cylon and the Cylon becomes his friend to the piont of turning on his fellow cylons, after knowing the truth…,., so I just want to see if Dr Z shows up ( not really) ( but it does involve (ADAMA)
Thank You where is my tee shirt?
March 3rd, 2009 at 2:06 am
@Chessykat
Because anders got shot in the head then started sprouting everything he already knew, and the fact that the F5 have remembered things as the show goes on, leaves me to believe that the memories were there, but blocked.
(John even says, we have had advancements in memory technology) – so before he might have not been able to remove the memory’s completely.
In reference to Ellen being the same way, my thoughts are that if you had memory’s of a past life (buried in your brain), lived a life for XX years with a fake memory. when she was “rebooted” with all memories.
You would still be living with the fake ones as real ones, they are your most recent memories about who you are, if he created her as a drunk, then she wakes up and still wants a drink.. but knows about over events like earth etc.
Everything seams to be pointing to now that there are higher beings at play.
The F5 dont know anything, Anders & Ellen haven’t said anything major about what’s controlling these events.
Ellen said – Hera is being controlled by something grater. (and the same with the temple of the 5)
Things that are still yet to be explained:
- Who/What are head characters. (How come both sides see them, the F5 and Boltar etc.)
- Who showed Deana the F5 faces in the temple.
- How does hera know so much, who is she being controlled by?
March 3rd, 2009 at 2:18 am
Cavil messed with the memories of F5, but they were downloaded and stored for further use. Thus, he can access all of them at once and recreate whatever needs to be recreated. Even easier then F5 without their original memories can.
Still waiting to see how are the F5 fundamentally different, apart from obviously highlander mode of there-can-be-only-one existence. Cavil played it nicely, storing bodies of F5 and rebooting them from the original disk + latest upgrade. And still, there is something more there… They still have some buttons to push… and why not just kill all five of them (Boomer could have achieved that) and get them into download city? Too far? Not more than couple of jumps, and that is not far enough… well… all the holes and slips, this is still amazing …
March 3rd, 2009 at 3:03 am
Mairi – “Cavil messed with the memories of F5, but they were downloaded and stored for further use. Thus, he can access all of them at once and recreate whatever needs to be recreated.”
I don’t think it works that way. I think that he just put a block on them accessing thier memories and put false memories in place. I don’t think it was downloaded into a storage bank or anything. The memories they have are in their mind they just couldn’t access it before for some reason. Now they can. Or at least it’s coming back to them bit by bit. The only one with full memory recall is Ellen because she was downloaded into a new body.
March 3rd, 2009 at 8:55 am
@Kirsty – you’ve got a point there, about something preventing them to access full memories. Still, Ellen downloaded in new body should include the download of the memory block as well (speaking strictly, that is a part of her software, and if the download happens only at death, then all the software goes into the download city… ). But, right, I’d rather that it is not a slip, but well thought out fact about how things have played out. Cavil obviously does not hold all the cards nor does he have a full control of things…
March 3rd, 2009 at 12:49 pm
I think that in the last few episodes, we have seen cavils true colours come out, whilst he appeases the other 7 models he wishes to be able to be in control of everything and all the cylons, the fact that he is now mortal scares him.
My theories haha lol
I think that there is another resurection ship out there, the original one that the final five used to escape earth originally, otherwise cavil and the other 7 models would know, of her being resurected, this i think could be being commanded by Daniel, hence as kara in my opinion is his child would resurect her.
In another crazy theory, I think that the thirteenth tribe was human, as are the final five, but that they had managed to create a biological memory transfer machine, inorder to be able to stem population decline. hence they merely used to escape when centurians found them.
March 3rd, 2009 at 1:56 pm
Where’s the BSGcast for this episode, Matt & Nat? Don’t tell me they’ve been boxed by Cavil!
March 3rd, 2009 at 2:04 pm
Not sure if anyone else mentioned it, but to me it seemed like Kara and head dad was orchestrating the events, by playing the piano. Almost godlike. It was so well done, and in the culmination when you realise which song they are actually playing, CHILLS. Best episode of this new batch. Can’t wait to hear your BSGcast on this one
March 3rd, 2009 at 2:07 pm
Ander’s reminds Kara that she owes him for covering her back before he is wheeled away to surgery. I think it will play into the plot before this is over in some way. If he could have only spewed more when he had ALL his memories unblocked….HMMMM……
If “everything has happened before and will happen again”, I think a war or major conflict is in the future. Cavil has a part to play in this but it will involve all the survivors, model#’s/character types and the Cylon/Centurions. CC’s by the way have been gathering intel from the front rows for a long time. Their voice will be heard. Who IS human is the question after all? Who will rebel against who is another question? Humanity? We can try to draw conclusions to a degree, but I think there are a few surprises on the horizon….. The tribes will scatter…….
C. Jimison
Calif
March 3rd, 2009 at 2:30 pm
One quick comment:
Previously, when we saw Boomer and Hera interact (on the baseship, when Hera was sick), the baby was crying in Boomer’s arms but calmed when Athena picked her up. Caprica-Six was awestruck that Hera ‘recognizes her mother’ even though their bodies are ‘biologically identical’. So, this implies
1) It was coincidence, and Six was wrong (so not that interesting)
2) Hera had this ability, but lost it as she got older (still uninteresting, but slightly less so)
3) Hera had this ability and STILL has this ability.
That third possibility is the most interesting after this episode. If Hera has the ability to recognize her true mother, then her non-panic in the nursery suggests that she willingly went along with Boomer’s abduction! it could be that whatever drug Boomer fed her in that drink had an effect, however there were still several moments when Hera could have yelled, screamed, etc. She didn’t. All this, to me, suggests more support for Ellen’s belief that Hera “is plugged in to something that’s manipulating all of us”. big things are going to happen here with the next episode.
I think that this episode has revealed something about how individual Cylons are identified, in general. When hearing Boomer’s voice, all the pilot Six in the previous episode was able to say was “I think that’s an Eight”. In this episode, Athena clearly looks right at Boomer in the mirror and says ‘Great, I hope you’re hear to fix the frakkin shower’, and only experiences shock and says “Boomer” when she turns around and looks Boomer in the face. Apparently it is face-to-face observations, perhaps even direct eye contact, that reveals the identity of an individual Cylon. REcall, as well, Cheif’s face-to-face greeting of Boomer when she first arrived with Ellen.
All this begs some (very minor, compared to what’s out there) questions: Can Individual Cylons be recognized on video? Does there need to be some relationship between both parties? Do all cylons perceive individuals of the same model as distinct, or is identification easier within-model?
March 3rd, 2009 at 2:52 pm
Mairi – “Kirsty – you’ve got a point there, about something preventing them to access full memories. Still, Ellen downloaded in new body should include the download of the memory block as well (speaking strictly, that is a part of her software, and if the download happens only at death, then all the software goes into the download city… ). But, right, I’d rather that it is not a slip, but well thought out fact about how things have played out. Cavil obviously does not hold all the cards nor does he have a full control of things…”
I think that he just put a block in the memories they have in those specific bodies. Which is why when Ellen resurrected into a new body she remembered everything where as the others their memories are coming back bit by bit (with the exception of Anders who’s bullet in the brain awoke all the memories) I think that Cavel didn’t erase Ellen’s memories the second time around cause he wanted that confrontation with her. He is like a messed up child desperately seeking his mom’s approval.
March 3rd, 2009 at 4:32 pm
I definitely agree. Kara must be half Cylon. I believe Daniel (her dad) imprinted Kara with the song of the FF as a guide to perhaps a habitable world (Earth 2). In this episode, I thought it was interesting that when Hera gave Kara the coloring/musical notes, it was exactly 13 dots, when she holds it up to Kara it looks like the last dot is an empty circle. I think those notes could turn out to be coordinates. The song definetely has more significance than most fans give it. Otherwise what purpose has it served?
Also Hera was making another coloring at that time a semi-circle of dots and it was also 13 of those (It shows her counting them). Hera and Kara have a connection that I have yet to see anyone seriously discuss.
On another note, Kara said to Head Dad “Did you see [Ellen and Tigh] on the wing of the Raptor. It was like watching my parents make-out” Hint hint.
Daniel was Ellen’s favorite, we know this. Could he even have been their cylon child? or a genetic combination of Ellen and Tigh, since Ellen can’t biologically have children. That would make Kara their Granddaughter so-to-speak.
Just some Ideas I had. I think there is a hell of a lot of hidden clues in this episode. Look closely and keep an open mind.
March 3rd, 2009 at 4:57 pm
Brian DuQuette
I really like your theory.
Very good points. Quite possible it could actually be the case.
March 3rd, 2009 at 5:23 pm
Hello!
Wondering if you all seen this yet. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CguEY9e2SqQ
Its a sneak peak of Bear McCreary playing the theme for “Caprica” . Sounds awesome.
Like you all, I loved this scene. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4LhljdbuMc
I can’t wait for the season 4 ost to come out.
March 3rd, 2009 at 6:06 pm
Outstandig episode. Big respect to all people of BSG. This is the best series ever. Even it’s still not finished, the best seems yet to come. Only to take Kara’s headscene playing this fantastic old song. i could play it in a loop, outstanding. I have no words for this, really. Thanks, thanks, thanks for this greatest show ever.
March 3rd, 2009 at 7:00 pm
Hobbiehound- Relax, okay? They were down here in the Orlando/Winter Park area to attend MegaCon for the past three days. Trust me, they’re going to need some time to get their editing done and get it posted. Besides, if you’re patient, you’ll be able to get a chance to see the actual BSG panel from Sunday with Dirk Benedict, James Callis, Herb Jefferson Jr., Luciana Carro, Jen Halley, Anne Lockhart and Melody Anderson (I don’t know if there was a panel on Saturday, with Tricia Helfer and James Calis, but if there was, than I’m sure they got it too). Trust me, I know, I was there on Sunday. I saw Nat recording and I saw Matt with his camera as I entered into the room before the panel. I myself have recorded footage (probably not the best) which I will put up on YouTube. But like I said, Hobbiehound, give them time.
March 3rd, 2009 at 7:00 pm
Boomer played the Chief like a … well … like a well-tuned piano. He was so snared by the created visions of him and Boomer together that he lost all sense of right and wrong. (Sort of like Odo merging with the Founder back in DS9. He lost himself for a while, too.) I half expect the Chief to go off, find Boomer and bring Hera back.
It’s official. The basestar and the cylons are now part of the fleet. I know that noone is surprised.
I need to look again, but I think the piano player is real. Sometimes a stranger is the best person to tell your darkest secrets to. That’s why there are confessionals. No judgements. No friendships to damage. Just a willing ear. It makes perfect sense, especially having done that myself.
The hull damage caused by Boomer’s jump is reasonable, especially since she was tumbling out of control. the wormhole could easily have been distorted into a spiral pattern that damaged the ship. What I thought was interesting was that the damage occurred a moment after the raptor jumped.
I can’t help but think of the USS Lexington when looking and listening to the Galactica. The Galactica is groaning under the stress, trying to keep her crew alive. The crew, in turn, is doing every miracle they can to save the ship. As I recall, even with the decks tilted at a 30+ degree angle, the crew fought to keep the Lexington alive. Eventually they had to sink the ship because the Japanese fleet was approaching faster than what they could tow her.
I think the same is about to happen to the Galactica.
Galactica is near-mortally wounded, but the crew is doing everything they can to save the ship. Cavil is about to attack. They will be left with the choice of leaving the destroyed Galactica behind, fighting off the healthy basestar with weakened forces, or making one last jump to a class G5 star system. Personally, I would vote for the jump using barely a skeleton crew. I would expect the Chief and Tigh to stay onboard to nurse the Gray Lady through the jump. Yes, I would love a good tragic hero ending for the Galactica – one last jump with the hull collapsing when she emerges from the wormhole.
Is it my imagination, or has Adama been using more female pronouns talking about the Galactica than in seasons past?
Adama stopping repairs on the Galactica is like stopping treatments for a terminally ill patient. All you want to do is take away the pain and let the person die with dignity. Tigh isn’t ready to give up the ghost. I hope he overrides Adama and orders the repairs to continue.
Looking at the promo, I think there is a hull breach and Kara is lost. That’s why her picture is posted up on the memorial wall. That is why Adama is crying – he has lost his surrogate daughter. Plus, I think he lost Laura.
I just looked at scifi.com/battlestar. The image for next week is Lee squatting on his haunches saying goodbye to someone. The crew is all in dress uniforms behind him. I think Roslin is about to die if she hasn’t already.
March 3rd, 2009 at 7:50 pm
Hey Matt & Nat! I know this is alittle off topic , but I had to point this out. It looks like the new Terminator movie is taking a page out of the Ole BSG book. The new trailer was just released showing a machine that thinks its human.
Sound fimiliar? Seems that writers are paying attention to what the greatest show ever has to offer. And asking the question of what does it mean to be human?
March 3rd, 2009 at 7:56 pm
@ Bradj84- I don’t know if you know, but there have been films before where machines thought they were human before “Battlestar Galactica” or “The Terminator”. Case in point, “Blade Runner” and the character of Rachel. Yes, she is what’s considered as a “replicant”, but she is, by comparison, a machine nonetheless.
March 3rd, 2009 at 8:08 pm
Oh yea no doubt man! And Blade Runner was the shizz, with EJO. But they haven’t really touched the topic in quite sometime, but Galactica. so there seems to be a revival going on.
March 3rd, 2009 at 8:38 pm
50 Questions I have to have answered because as Popeye would say: “I have had all I can stands and I can’t stands no more!” There are obviously a ton more questions — let’s make up our “questions that must be answered in the next three episoses” list!
1. Did Baltar die in the initial attack?
2. Is Baltar Cylon?
3. Were there people on the Olympic Carrier?
4. How did Boomer just happen to show up when Baltar was potentially marooned on Caprica?
5. Did Dr. Amorak really have incriminating evidence on Baltar?
6. Did Adama’s foray across the armistice line cause the Cylons to re-attack?
7. Who or what caused Boomer to destroy the water tanks on Galactica causing them to go search for water?
8. Does Starbuck’s Cylon nature enable her to pilot the cylon raider?
9. What is the nature of the life forms that fly the cylons raiders and fighters?
10. Do head characters only show up on characters that have a Cylon background?
11. If number 10 above is true, then why does Roslin have a head character?
12. What causes Roslin and Starbuck to have the same visions of Leoben during the interrogation in season one?
13. What clicks in Boomer’s head to shoot the Admiral? Someone had to KNOW that Boomer was on the Galactica and that Adama would survive in order for a very specific order to kill Adama be carried out.
14. Why was the order to kill Adama given?
15. If Boomer was given an order to destroy all of the water in order to kill the humans, why not just give her the order to vent the ship to air? She had all of the access necessary to do so.
16. What happened to Starbuck when she returned to Caprica? Were her ovaries taken? Was she cloned? Did she die and resurrect in the hospital?
17. Did Gaeta lie about Baltar’s picture on Caprica in the defense mainframe?
18. If Gaeta did not lie about the picture, who placed tried to frame Baltar in the first place?
19. Was Pegasus allowed to survive?
20. Was Galactica allowed to survive?
21. What are the meanings of the strange dreams #3 has that leads her to a human “Oracle” to interpret her dreams? Is the human “Oracle” #3’s “head” character? Can Cylons have human head characters?
22. The virus that killed off cylons was apparently of human decent (I think it was from a human sneeze?). However the “humans” that fled earth were cylon (the Final Five). If it was of human descent, then how did it kill the cylons? Are cylons humans? Are humans cylons? Is the difference between human and cylon the difference between black and white in that there are genetical differences between black/white and human/cylon but everything else is really the same?
23. Why did Gaeta lie on the stand?
24. Why does RDM morph versions of Ellen and Caprica in Tigh’s mind?
25. Who triggers the music on Galactica that “turns on” four of the final five? Why are they triggered at that particular point in time? Is it the same person who “turned on” Boomer to kill Adama?
26. Is Lucy (Admiral Helena Caine’s little sister on Razor) now a hybrid?
27. What does it mean that Starbuck is alluded to as the “Harbinger of Death” in “Razor”?
28. Why is Kendra Shaw (Apollo’s XO on Razor)picked by the hybrid to learn the information about Starbuck being the “harbinger of death”?
29. Who jams Kendraw Shaw’s communication to the Battlestar Galactica so they can’t find out about Starbuck’s fate?
30. Why/how is Bulldog allowed to escape Cylon capture? Please see question # 6 above for the related question about Adama’s hand in causing the war in the first place.
31. If Bulldog is such a great pilot and they are short of pilots, why does Adama allow him to leave the ship and you never see him again?
32. An obvious question – what is Starbuck’s true nature since she obviously died on Earth. Is she Cylon? What is the connection between her and Leoben?
33. Is Baltar’s establishment of a monotheistic cult synonymous with the establishment of the “one true God” that the Cylons follow? In the vein of “this has happened before and this will happen again”, does the next culture receive “the one true God” from followers of Baltar’s religion?
34. Is Galactica the dying leader?
35. Why did we have the visions of Caprica running around on Kobol with a child that was supposedly the the offspring of her and Baltar? Those visions seem to have been set aside.
36. Why were there visions of Caprica/Boomer/Roslin chasing Hera?
37. Who put those visions into everyone’s head?
38. Is Anders going to become a “hybrid” that plugs into Galactica to provide a temporary solution for the dying ship?
39. Why is #3 on Earth by herself?
40. Where on earth is the resurrection vehicle?
41. Are Baltar and Starbuck related?
42. Is Daniel the Father of Baltar and Starbuck?
43. Is Daniel Starbuck’s head character?
44. Is Daniel the puppetmaster pulling the strings in opposition to Cavil?
45. Is Daniel the one sending out the musical signals to turn everyone on?
46. If you assume that Daniel did not turn Boomer on, who turned Boomer on to attempt Adama’s assassination?
47. Obviously Hera is a missing link to the puzzle – how was she able to compose music that ended up in Starbuck’s head?
48. What caused Tigh and Caprica’s baby to die?
49. Are the Centurions sentient or just programmed?
50. Is CAvil really the DEvil incarnate? A simple re-orientation of CA (adding on letter to C and adding one vowel to E creates DEvil from CAvil).
March 3rd, 2009 at 8:43 pm
One additional question:
How does Boomer find the fleet to bring Ellen back? Does Cavil know where they are because he is tracking them somehow?
March 3rd, 2009 at 8:52 pm
Another question:
Does Boomer really love Chief even though she deceived him?
March 3rd, 2009 at 9:15 pm
Another great article from the Chicago Tribune.
http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/02/battlestar-galactica-starbuck-boomer-someone-to-watch-over-me-.html?cid=150392533#comments
March 3rd, 2009 at 10:21 pm
One final thought:
When Starbuck plus “Head Daniel” break into the orchestral version of their new rendition of “All Along the Watchtower”, Tory is heard to say “that’s the song”…as if that song is something they have heard before and it is signal.
I listened/watched to that section of the show six times at full audio…it is powerfully haunting, especially the continuing justaposition of how Boomer thoroughly screws over Tyrol. Tigh’s eye when he recognizes the music and says “what the frak?” continues to be the most amazing acting job I have ever seen! He lines are short (”we are all going to Hell” said at the right moment with no embelishment) yet powerful and emotive. He deserves an Emmy for his work in through these last 4-5 years.
Something good is about to happen!
March 4th, 2009 at 9:56 am
I also had this idea that the way in which Ellen described Cavil’s extermination of Daniel (wasn’t there something about introducing a corrupting virus or a corrupting piece of code?) could have led to a evolutionary event. I.e., whatever he did to Daniel could have resulted in a fundamental change — maybe even the next step in cylon evolution. So instead of destroying something, he may have inadvertently CREATED something new. Assuming a copy survived. Or perhaps Daniel simply exists in the ‘ether’ and no longer has a consistent physical form. Just something my brain has been toying with.
March 4th, 2009 at 10:00 am
Great new intro guys!! Good choice!!
Like you all, I am thinking that Roslin did die in this episode or at least in a coma or something. In the promo shot, we see Adama in dress uniform pretty much crying, breaking down, in a locker room. Could this be over Roslin’s death, the dying of Galactica? I was also thinking, mabye its a flashback to when Zach dies. Maybe we get to see the same emotional breakdown from Zach’s death to the dying of Galactica and the possible death of Roslin. either way…this can only end in tears…..our tears….
March 4th, 2009 at 10:05 am
In the Original Series, Galactica had to turn around and dish out some serious whoopass to defend Earth from the incoming cylons in the final episodes, and I strongly suspect that something similar is at play here. The Galactica has one last massive battle to undertake, and it’ll be a battle that’ll leave us breathless. It’ll blow 15-20 minutes before the end. However, the question is posed – what will the Galactica find that will force it to fight to the bitter end?
It’s going to be their new home, and I bet that their new home will already have people living on it – the civilization that destroyed Earth. Maybe it’ll already be in the process of destoying itself come to think of it…
March 4th, 2009 at 10:33 am
Sirslam, I took a stab at answering your questions. Really, a lot are resolved already within the show.
http://nosehedgehog.org/answers.htm
March 4th, 2009 at 10:41 am
@ Sirslam: I’ll give you a head start on all of these questions. About ten of them need to be resolved for me.
1. Did Baltar die in the initial attack? – No.
2. Is Baltar Cylon? – No.
3. Were there people on the Olympic Carrier? – RDM said that they put one silhouette on it, since they wanted to put crowds on it, but the network said no. Bottom line – humans killed their own.
4. How did Boomer just happen to show up when Baltar was potentially marooned on Caprica? – Head Characters influencing events to accomplish what they want to accomplish.
5. Did Dr. Amorak really have incriminating evidence on Baltar? – We’ll never know… but I say yes.
6. Did Adama’s foray across the armistice line cause the Cylons to re-attack? – I doubt it, but maybe we’ll find out in “The Plan”
7. Who or what caused Boomer to destroy the water tanks on Galactica causing them to go search for water? – Her sleeper-agent seek-and-destroy program knew that could kill them all.
8. Does Starbuck’s Cylon nature enable her to pilot the cylon raider? – I doubt it. She’s just that good.
9. What is the nature of the life forms that fly the cylons raiders and fighters? – It’s genetically engineered – thus its basically a bizzare predator.
10. Do head characters only show up on characters that have a Cylon background? – No. Colonial Mystics clearly saw plenty of visions because of their chamala habit – they’re pretty nuts. Consider the one who talked sense into D’Anna and gave her a message from the Cylon god.
11. If number 10 above is true, then why does Roslin have a head character? – See 10.
12. What causes Roslin and Starbuck to have the same visions of Leoben during the interrogation in season one? – Starbuck saw visions? I’m not sure you’re remembering that right.
13. What clicks in Boomer’s head to shoot the Admiral? Someone had to KNOW that Boomer was on the Galactica and that Adama would survive in order for a very specific order to kill Adama be carried out. – Of course they knew Sharon was on the Galactica all along, of course they knew she was a sleeper agent. That’s why they could have tried to play matchmaker with Athena and Helo.
14. Why was the order to kill Adama given? – Kill Adama, and you’ll defeat the humans. (What’s unclear about that?)
15. If Boomer was given an order to destroy all of the water in order to kill the humans, why not just give her the order to vent the ship to air? She had all of the access necessary to do so. – I doubt that very much. It took a troop of Centurions to get access to the venting controls.
16. What happened to Starbuck when she returned to Caprica? Were her ovaries taken? Was she cloned? Did she die and resurrect in the hospital? – She lost one ovary. She wasn’t cloned. She didn’t die.
17. Did Gaeta lie about Baltar’s picture on Caprica in the defense mainframe? – Of course he didn’t. It was planted there by Godfrey, whoever that was.
18. If Gaeta did not lie about the picture, who placed tried to frame Baltar in the first place? – Take Head 6 at her word, Baltar was being set up so that no one
19. Was Pegasus allowed to survive? – Sure doesn’t look like it. What purpose would that have served?
20. Was Galactica allowed to survive? – I suppose its possible, but Cavil’s desire to kill off all the humans and the cylon exchanges during the miniseries seems to discredit this.
21. What are the meanings of the strange dreams #3 has that leads her to a human “Oracle” to interpret her dreams? Is the human “Oracle” #3’s “head” character? Can Cylons have human head characters? – D’Anna has some conflict in her being, and that was indicative of the conflict. No. Of course – can anyone say ‘Head Baltar’?
22. The virus that killed off cylons was apparently of human decent (I think it was from a human sneeze?). However the “humans” that fled earth were cylon (the Final Five). If it was of human descent, then how did it kill the cylons? Are cylons humans? Are humans cylons? Is the difference between human and cylon the difference between black and white in that there are genetical differences between black/white and human/cylon but everything else is really the same? – Ooooo…. Good one. Can you say ‘giant error!’ Cylons are cylons, humans are humans. Maybe these humanoids, having lived among humans, eventually gained the immunity that humans now have.
23. Why did Gaeta lie on the stand? – To get Baltar killed.
24. Why does RDM morph versions of Ellen and Caprica in Tigh’s mind? – Tigh was projecting what he wanted to see.
25. Who triggers the music on Galactica that “turns on” four of the final five? Why are they triggered at that particular point in time? Is it the same person who “turned on” Boomer to kill Adama? – They need to explain this. About Boomer, of course not – Boomer was activated by sleeper programing.
26. Is Lucy (Admiral Helena Caine’s little sister on Razor) now a hybrid? – How many little girls disappeared inexplicably during the war? Why single out this one?
27. What does it mean that Starbuck is alluded to as the “Harbinger of Death” in “Razor”? – I don’t know – they need to answer this.
28. Why is Kendra Shaw (Apollo’s XO on Razor)picked by the hybrid to learn the information about Starbuck being the “harbinger of death”? – I don’t know – I think it was just to tell us, the watchers, something significant before they got to it in season 4.
29. Who jams Kendraw Shaw’s communication to the Battlestar Galactica so they can’t find out about Starbuck’s fate? – The Sentinel ship.
30. Why/how is Bulldog allowed to escape Cylon capture? Please see question # 6 above for the related question about Adama’s hand in causing the war in the first place. – He was released because once he learned the truth, he would kill Adama. The episode itself explained the how well.
31. If Bulldog is such a great pilot and they are short of pilots, why does Adama allow him to leave the ship and you never see him again? – Because the actor wasn’t coming back. I know – not a stunning explanation, but there it is. Same goes for D’Anna’s weird choice.
32. An obvious question – what is Starbuck’s true nature since she obviously died on Earth. Is she Cylon? What is the connection between her and Leoben? – Dunno. I want this one explained too.
33. Is Baltar’s establishment of a monotheistic cult synonymous with the establishment of the “one true God” that the Cylons follow? In the vein of “this has happened before and this will happen again”, does the next culture receive “the one true God” from followers of Baltar’s religion? – Baltar explicitly said that he was worshiping the one true God to Tori right?
34. Is Galactica the dying leader? – No, it is Laura. Galactica’s just an old ship.
35. Why did we have the visions of Caprica running around on Kobol with a child that was supposedly the the offspring of her and Baltar? Those visions seem to have been set aside. – Six was being intentionally misleading about bearing a child with Baltar, but she considered Hera to be her and Baltar’s child – their responsibility to care for.
36. Why were there visions of Caprica/Boomer/Roslin chasing Hera? – Dunno. We’ll find out.
37. Who put those visions into everyone’s head? – Dunno. We’ll find out.
38. Is Anders going to become a “hybrid” that plugs into Galactica to provide a temporary solution for the dying ship? – That’d be interesting… I doubt it though, Galactica’s not networked.
39. Why is #3 on Earth by herself? – Because Xenia was done with BSG.
40. Where on earth is the resurrection vehicle? It isn’t on Earth. It was the ship in orbit that survived the attack, and which the 5 used to get to the colonies.
41. Are Baltar and Starbuck related? – I doubt it.
42. Is Daniel the Father of Baltar and Starbuck? – No and Yes.
43. Is Daniel Starbuck’s head character? – Baltar sees 6 and himself. Why must others have only one? It it more likely coincidence?
44. Is Daniel the puppetmaster pulling the strings in opposition to Cavil? – That’s a good one.
45. Is Daniel the one sending out the musical signals to turn everyone on? – That’s a good one.
46. If you assume that Daniel did not turn Boomer on, who turned Boomer on to attempt Adama’s assassination? – I already answered this – you’re hitting this a lot. Why?
47. Obviously Hera is a missing link to the puzzle – how was she able to compose music that ended up in Starbuck’s head?
48. What caused Tigh and Caprica’s baby to die? – Where’s the love?
49. Are the Centurions sentient or just programmed? – Sentient. That’s how they rebelled in the first place.
50. Is CAvil really the DEvil incarnate? A simple re-orientation of CA (adding on letter to C and adding one vowel to E creates DEvil from CAvil). – Is Lee is the incarnation of the god Apollo?
March 4th, 2009 at 11:23 am
Both of you are thorough! While most of your answers I understand from the series and others are questions I know can’t be answered, you did jar my memory banks on questions that I had just forgotten, such as why Bulldog was allowed to leave Cylon custody. However, I also think some of them are convenient answers that might be changed in the course of the final three shows. As an example, I still believe Baltar died on Caprica. The human body can’t be more resilient than a cylon body and we know the cylon body can be killed by a human (see the original mini-series when Adama killed Leoben). If Adama can kill Leoben, then a nuclear bomb will kill both Caprica and Baltar. I am not convinced of anyone’s argumen there and continue to believe Baltar to be cylon (and potentially Starbuck’s half-brother with the common father of Daniel).
I hit on Boomer a lot because the questions were extemporaneous, and not the result of days and days of vetting…so there were some repeats.
Concerning Lucy (#26), while we know lots of little girls disappear and die, only one is shown to be in a very specific location one minute and then literally two minutes later when Helena goes back she is no longer there. She was not shot and left behind, she was explicitly taken. We have not seen any other little girl in the series get “taken” like that.
March 4th, 2009 at 3:39 pm
I’m going to go out on a limb and say that Daniel was Dreilide Thrace, but not her biological father (or if so, not through completely natural means). It would be pretty stupid to deny her childhood connection to the Cylons, but RDM has been hammering for some time the idea that Hera is the true Cylon/Human child and that she’s unique. Making Starbuck the same would kill that.
March 4th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
ive been thinking about starbucks father being daniel.. if this is the case then starbuck is the first cybrid so maybe hera is a reincarnation of starbuck or a continuation of the starbuck line of cybrids so when the hybrid said kara was the harbringer of death maybe she was actually talking about hera… ?
March 4th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
also im annoyed that one of the biggest pay offs i want to happen isnt going to happen no not the dying leader, no not starbuck, no not hera but chief finding out tori killed cally. This is something i really wanna see, he could try and kill tori or he might just not care and it really annoys me that we will never find out
March 4th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
Ok, here goes. What was Cabel’s plan with the Final Five? He killed and boxed them, reprogramed them, placed them into the 12 Colonies to what? Kill them in order to resurect them fully restored so he can say “I told you so!, humanity sucks!” That is, until what happened?
THEY WERE RESTORED PARTIALLY BY A SONG. We know now that that song that was composed by Starbuck’s Dad. An musical artist.
John Cabel destroyed the #7 line of Cylon who were the artists of the race. Or maybe he thinks he did. I think at least one Daniel (the 7’s) surrvived and is not only Starbuck’s dad “Dreilide Thrace” is pulling all the strings that will right all the wrongs done by Cabel. Starbuck could persumably be half Cylon and therefore perhaps capable of resurrection, explaning her miraculous comeback. Hera is most likely “seeing” Daniel the way Starbuck did last episode, she did draw the musical notes, did she not? What do you guys think?
March 4th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
I don’t want to re-hash what’s been said already (which is almost impossible to do with so many posts) but I do want to comment on a few aspects of the episode.
Was it believable that Helo did not know the difference between Boomer and his wife?
My answer: Yes. (Though as an Athena/Helo shipper, I wish he had known).
Reasons:
Athena was given Boomer’s memories for her original mission (to seduce Helo on Caprica). It would make sense that Athena would access those memories when she was pretending to be Boomer. She would laugh the way Boomer laughed, smile the way Boomer smiled, and use the same ‘techniques’ with Helo that she ‘remembered’ Boomer using with Tyrol. Also, it was established through 8thena that Athena’s memories could be downloaded by another 8. Perhaps Cavil forced Boomer to download Athena’s memories, or perhaps she chose to…either way, it’s possible Boomer also has Athena’s memories.
And was there some reason Helo should’ve been on the alert? It’s not like Athena had any idea that one of the 8’s might try to pose as her (after all, she probably isn’t aware of what went down in The Hub). Having no reason to be suspicious of his ‘wife‘, Helo did notice that something was off with her, but Boomer managed to distract him from those thoughts.
To all of those blaming Helo for not realizing the switch: Back off with the Helo-hate and give the poor guy a break already!
I was happy to listen to the podcast and find out that this storyline direction was not in the original script written by Weddle & Thompson. This puts them back in the *good* box of BSG peeps who haven’t wronged *my* characters. However, Nankin is now in the *if we were ever to meet in person, I may have to repeatedly kick you in the shins* box I created for Angeli after The Woman King. BAD Nankin. With only a few hours of BSG to go, it saddens me that the storyline Helo/Athena are going out on is something so dark…After everything they’ve already been through, I was kind of hoping they might catch a break. Not so much.
My one non-personl issue with this episode was the idea that Boomer could walk around the ship without being out-ted. We already know that the ship has become integrated so it seems very unlikely that Boomer could walk from the brig, to the head, to the daycare, to the hanger-deck without running into any cylons other than Athena and Tyrol. Just doesn’t seem plausible.
Although this episode was (almost) impossible to watch, I truly believe it was a series’ best. The combination of B&D’s script with Nankin’s direction brought out some incredible performances from the entire cast, especially Aaron and Grace who stripped themselves raw for these scenes.
March 4th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
I think the show should end with this well known dialogue (from the mini series):
“Starbuck what do you hear?”
“Nothing but the rain”
“Then grab your gun and bring in the cat”
….maybe there is a deeper meaning in this dialogue than just funny conversation….
We will see
March 4th, 2009 at 5:00 pm
Hi guys, well the show I must admit has gotten interesting again, as we leave behind the soap opera and get back to character arcs. I do like knowing what happens to all of my favorite characters but I also feel this show has become less battlestar galactica, to try to explain what I mean by this. I miss the effects shots. The battlestar jumping into earths atmosphere to save the humans from the cylons. The Pegasus sacrificing itself against two baseships to allow galactica to escape. I miss the War. I want the guns, the explosions. not a failed mutiny without honor, but the actual cylon war, but it is destined to repeat so hopefully it will happen again. obviously I am not one for the peaceful solution where humans and cylons get along. also, I did love the reintroduction of the music and how it affected the plot.
March 4th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
Ok all, here is my speculation and theories-
1. I think that the final five are indeed responsible for the Cylons failure to breed within themselves. It is very reasonable that they deliberately designed the skin jobs that way.
2. I see the unification of the Cylon and human races by the end of the series and I believe that the unification will lead us to present day Earth where the descendants of said unification will live.
3. THE GODS!!! I believe that the Lords of Kobol have come to inhabit some of the Cylon models and humans as well. I think that Head Six is the manifestation of the Goddess Aphrodite while Head Baltar is the manifestation of Hephaestus (God of the Forge). Starbuck is Artemis, Goddess of the Hunt and I think Cavil is Hades. As for Daniel, who knows but I believe he plays a huge part in the end game.
More to come after class
March 4th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
I think, after I saw this episode, it’s a pretty sure thing that Kara is a hybrid and her father was Daniel (though I thought about Tigh being her dad a loooong time ago). It’s pretty much a certainty. Though I wonder why she’s not in the Opera House dream. I guess because she’s not as impressionable as Hera and is really her own person. Though I think they should make more of Kara’s mother if that’s the case (every time I see Socrata Thrace, I think of her in Mama’s Family).
This episode was great. I hate what Boomer has become. I really do. It shows that Eights can’t really be completely trusted though. Athena betrayed her fellow Eights by moving to the human side and Boomer betrayed her fellow Eights by moving to the Dark Side. So none of the Eights can be trusted what so ever. Both Athena and Boomer have proven themselves to whatever side they’ve chosen, though it hurts me that Boomer has no feelings for Galactica even though she would have gladly given her life for it before. That can’t be entirely Tyrol’s fault. Boomer has turned into a total bitch.
You can’t tell me Helo doesn’t know the difference between the Eights yet. That’s like some guy frakking his wife’s twin sister and trying to get away with it, because “He didn’t know”. If the cylons and Hera can tell them apart, why can’t Helo? Also, why didn’t Hera say something? She kind of just went with Sharron drinking her Jesus Juice or whatever that was that knocked her out.
Also, Tyrol couldn’t tell that that wasn’t Athena the last time? They’re always supposed to have a co-pilot, aren’t they? Athena carrying a heavier than usual crate and flying alone…hmmm. That didn’t make him question anything?
The cylon quorum member is a huge thing. Before they were absolutely against any cylon power in the government, but leave it to Lee to give in. And now Lee is the Senior Quorum Official. That Adama boy must have some contacts or something. lol.
I was very disappointed when I heard about all the Adama|Roslin that was cut out. I think we needed that. Hopefully we’ll get to see it in the DVDs or something like Unfinished Business. That ending to the show where Roslin passes out, I think it shows that she does have a real connection to Hera. Hopefully they go into that more with these last 3-4 episodes and hopefully it isn’t just the blood thing because I thought it was very interesting that Roslin can feel when Hera has gone somewhere or has been taken.
I’m left with more questions than answers now.
March 4th, 2009 at 6:10 pm
Ok, i have to admit that i tried to read most of the speculations (what turned out to be more torture then fun);
Anyhow here’s what i think:
KARA IS DANIEL!!!!!!!! its so obvious its spiting in your eye! here’s why:
a) The the sylon numbers seem to be arranged according the age there bodies appear to be (1-Cavel (oldest) 8-Sharon (youngest)) anyhow Num.7 aka Daniel has to be someone about Sharron’s age, maybe even a bit older (like Starbuck).
b)Kara’s artistic – Daniel was artistic till Cavel did something to him, Kara has no appreciation for art since she’s so practical, thus making her frustrated for life.
c) RESURRECTION!!! how the hell could there have been a Kara body without Kara being a sylon to begin with.
and the question your all asking (since you’ve read thus far apparently): Kara is a girl and Daniel is a boy’s name- WTF?!?!
My explanation: Cavel wanted to get rid of Daniel as punishment for Ellen for making him a human – he starts by getting rid of Daniel’s creativity and continues by getting rid of him. Ellen decides to create a different body for Daniel, one that cannot be suspected as Daniel, thus creating Kara.
hope you enjoyed reading- and just so you know i’m proof of the fact that battlestar galactica made it to israel
March 4th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
It’s a bit off topic, but anyone else think there is some slight sexual tension between Matt and Nat? No? Just me then I guess.
Anyway I can’t wait for these next three episodes, hopefully they turn out to be as great, and if possible, greater than this episode was.
March 4th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
Music and Cybrids and the Opera House oh my…
In my effort to tie the events of “Someone to Watch Over me” to the final “truth” of the origin of Humans and Cylons within the context of the great cycle of eternal recurrence, I am starting to believe that TIME is going to play a critical part in the series finale.
Consider this exchange between Gaius Baltar and Number Six in the ruins of the Opera House on Kobol during the episode “Kobol’s Last Gleaming, Part II”:
Number Six: Life has a melody, Gaius. A rhythm of notes that become your existence once played in harmony with God’s plan. It’s time to do your part and realize your destiny.
Gaius Baltar: Which is what, exactly?
Number Six: You are the guardian and protector of the new generation of God’s children. The first member of our family will be with us soon, Gaius. It’s time to make your choice.
Gaius Baltar: But I don’t understand what you’re talking about. Really, I don’t understand –
Number Six: Come. See the face of the shape of things to come.
Now consider what Saul Tigh said in “Deadlock”:
Saul Tigh: Pure human doesn’t work, pure Cylon doesn’t work; it’s too weak.
Now, given Hera’s importance and the fact that she is the physical embodiment of “things to come”, it stands to reason to conclude that a Cybrid race – half Cylon, half Human – is the salvation for both and the key to breaking the cycle of destruction. (I acknowledge that several people endorse this conclusion)
Accepting Cybrids as the solution, however, still begs the question of how will Cybrids break the cycle of destruction? A possible explanation may unfold like this:
During the final battle, Baltar starts his “Big Guns” revolution as part of his “last Human solution to the problem” and Cavil attacks the fleet in an attempt at force his Cylon only solution and yet both are doomed to failure. In the process, their mutual failure brings about the destruction of both Humanity and the Cylon race.
The series ends as it began, Baltar cowardly abandons his cause to save himself taking with him his one true love – Caprica Six. They both escape the flaming wreckage of their respective civilizations in space and take refuge on a habitable planet to build a new life as the first parents of a new Cybrid race. Maybe they even use Hera’s musical drawing as a star chart to lead them to their new home.
We at last learn the “truth” and discover that the events depicted during the BSG series happened thousands of years ago during our Earth’s pre-history. RDM’s shocking reveal to the viewer is that the planet they settled upon will also be named Earth – our Earth – and their identities will survive to us today as Adam and Eve. The “truth” is we’re all Cybrids and Gaius Baltar and Caprica Six are the parents of the human race!
Yeah, I know it’s way out there, but RDM can now kill off everyone in the final battle and the cycle gets broken and Cybrids – like Hera – are the face of the shape of things to come and begin anew on a planet called Earth. It’s just another fun theory to consider…
March 4th, 2009 at 7:26 pm
Responding to Miguel Milian
I think your theory is very close.
I dont think Hera is seeing Danial though.
I think when Cavil boxed the FF, Danial programmed them with the song. He didn’t compose that song because Ander’s played it on Earth 2000 years before. I think the song was some sort of fail safe for the FF. Ellen and maybe the other FF taught Danial, or maybe he overheard it from them, the song. Then once Cavil boxed the FF, Danial programmed the song into them, trying to hide it from Cavil. But, Cavil found out about his tampering. One Danial escaped to the colonies, and the rest were sabotaged by Cavil. The one Danial that escaped imprinted the song on his daughter, Kara.
The song has a deeper meaning though. I think it is coordinates. Hera said she was drawing stars. It was 13 of them on that paper by the way. Then she handed Kara another paper with 13 dots that turned out to the song. Why, is that song so important?
COORDINATES! Maybe to another habitable world, or the ressurection hub Kara came from, or both.
Well, at least thats what I think. But, if it turns out to be true… Goku said it first
March 4th, 2009 at 9:00 pm
Matt and Nat,
What a great shoutout to the new “piano” version of “Watchtower” with the smoking finger blowing at the end. Fantastic!
Quick words about this ep. I think that Bear McCreary’s music makes up I’d say at least half of what Battlestar Galactica is. WHat I mean is, if we did not have Bear’s music, BSG would be half as good as what it is. Basically I’m saying that BSG is extremly influenced by Bear’s music who has made contributions beyond what any composer has ever done for a TV show.
He admits that Someone to Watch Over Him was the highlight of his career and if you read his blog you get a glipse of just how much work went into that episode musically and all the detail that went into it.
So musically I was just so happy with this episode, it was absolutely fantastic.
It was certainly a much better episode than Deadlock which I’m putting in 19th place in the Season 4 episodes, last place being Sine Qua Non of course
I just hope that they get going though. I still feel they dragged on the Kara-Head Father arc too much. There is just SO much that they could cover to make the last few eps of BSG so awesome, and every episode I kindo get a bit disappointed by how little the story moves forward relative to how much it truly could cover!
To conclude, really great ep, and I cant wait till the last few eps of BSG. I’ve got equal mix of worry, anticipation, excitement and sadness among my feelings.
Oh, and you are so lucky Nat and Mat, I want to meet James Callis so bad! I’ll have to fly to London in November or December or whenever that convention is at Heathrow.
You guys should come too
Adalla
March 4th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
Kara is a Cybrid – ‘ watching her parents make out’… Actually, she was watching her grandparents make out. FF created Daniel, Daniel created her (being her father). 5% chance she is Daniel… recreated as a woman to throw off Cavil.
Kara – Died and resurrected when she crashed. The storm/vertex/wormhole she was in when the viper blew up brought her to Earth where she crashed and died. The FF resurrection ship is still there, so she woke up over Earth after being resurrected. Remember she is a Cybrid (or Daniel). The LOK put her in a ship and sent her through a storm/vertex/wormhole back to the fleet to fulfill her destiny. She is the harbinger of death for humans.
Bommer – Still loves Tyrol. She projected an image of the life she could have had. Like Darth Vader in Star Wars, she chose to follow Cavil (Dark side of her) not the good side.
Lords of Kobol – There is a place between life and death and the LOK exist there. They can project in the minds of cylons. Head six is a LOK. Daniel is now a LOK. (He is dead, he is a Cylon). LOK are cylons (see “This has happened before”…below)
Daniel disappeared suddenly from Kara’s life because he was killed by Cavil.
Sam Anders wrote the song on Earth. Anders programmed it into Daniel and he played it for Kara. Not sure of the songs meaning in BSG world. Why it activates the cylons and such.
Baltar – Must also be a Cybrid. Or, like Jesus was God in the flesh, he is a LOK in the flesh. I like the first idea better: He has been getting projection since the miniseries. Plus, he died on Caprica and was resurrected in the miniseries. Cylons resurrect. Plus,
Galactica is the dying leader.
This has happened before… and will happen again. Cylon is bad, Human is bad…. Sorry, but Cylon/Human is bad. They have been mixing and separating over and over and over…and will continue to do so. “A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away”… Humans create Cylons, they rebel, they create human looking cylons, Armageddon, kiss and make up. Making up leads to cybrids. Humans die, Cylons die…Cybrids are the next generation. They live in peace for 4,000 years. Forgetting the past they create Cylons. Repeat for eternity.
Hara – Chose to be taken… she knows her destiny. Oh, Daniel got a human pregnant, but Anders got a Cylon pregnant. So they both have a special purpose…Hara is the final link.
Humans have visions, dreams…Cylons have head characters…LOKs.
March 4th, 2009 at 9:40 pm
I actually had a laugh out loud moment when boomer kidnapped hera, jumped and caused the explosion on the ship. tyrol’s reaction after the fact reminded me of bill murray in caddyshack after he rigged the golf course with explosives and blew everything up. I was kind of hoping hera’s drawing for starbuck would’ve turned out to be some star chart showing some new habitable world.
March 4th, 2009 at 10:57 pm
One thought I’ve toyed with for almost 2 years now is what ramifications the blood transfusion between Hera and Roslin would have. Now it appears I may possibly have my answer. I think Roslin’s collapse was a direct result of the tie the two share as a result of Roslin carrying Hera’s blood. Was Laura’s recovery and strength a direct result to her proximity to hera? Perhaps that is another reason she relocated to Galactica as well. As Hera was transported light years away it took that sustaining life force from Laura. Now she’s at the mercy of her illness again. I fear that this may be the beginning of the end for Laura roslin…
March 4th, 2009 at 11:16 pm
Dear Matt and Nat,
Thank you for this podcast. It is good to know there are others out there who have such high appreciation for what I consider to be the best television show of all time. I am saddened that there are only three episodes left, but have no doubt that they will be nothing less than spectacular.
My comment for your fan of the week contest concerns Ellen’s comment about Hara: “She’s plugged into something that’s manipulating all of us”.
Here’ my theory:
Since Galactica seems to love Old Testament stories, I think there was a Cain and Abel type of rivalry between Cavil and Daniel.
Cavil was jealous of Daniel so he killed his entire model as mentioned. Daniel, however, being an artist and Helen’s favorite, probably contributed some “out of the box” thinking on the resurrection technology Ellen reinvented.
I like to believe that one Daniel actually escaped Cavil and set up a resurrection mechanism which allowed a Cylon’s “soul” to reincarnate into a body that did not come off an assembly line, but was rather conceived. Earth Cylons had given up resurrection for procreation. Maybe Daniel integrated resurrection with procreation. (The hybrid in Razor stated: “As my own existence comes to a close, only to begin anew, in ways uncertain” – I think this is a clue to this Daniel’s reincarnation and that maybe Hera is the Razor Hybrid”
So, I believe that the characters that see “Head Characters” are either reincarnated beings created by Daniel’s reincarnation technology or key Cylons Daniel has reprogrammed, and he, the last surviving Daniel, is manipulating these characters by means of a head character vision.
1.Leoben’s obsession with Kara Thrace
2.Bartar’s guidance offered by Head Six
3.Hara’s drawings
4.Roslin’s visions (because she has Hara’s blood in her veins)
5.Starbuck’s visions of her parents and Leoben
I believe Daniel is Starbuck’s dad and he’s in hiding. He is trying to carry out the original plan of the 5 earth Cylons and break the cycle of violence.
March 5th, 2009 at 12:06 am
Regarding the idea that Kara is a goddess or Lord of Kobol.
Has it ever occurred to anyone that the Lords of Kobol are in fact Cylon survivors from a previous Holocaust. Like the people of the 13th Tribe, the Lords of Kobol settled on a planet and created the original 12 tribes of man. (The 13th being a product of AI research by the 12)
This goes back to the idea that “This has happened before and well happen again.” Only that it happened “…and again… and again… again…”. The raise and fall of civilization repeats it self countless times, the Lords of Kobol just happens to be Cylon survivors from one of the cycle.
Remember, to a primitive society, the fact that the Lords of Kobol resurrects upon death could be misinterpreted as divinity. That is not to say the Lords of Kobol did not have actively reinforced the idea that they were gods to their children. We simply don’t know or have much information on them.
March 5th, 2009 at 12:10 am
Supplement:
The implication here, if you accept the LoK are Cylons instead of gods, is that there is nothing mystical about them. Everything we have seen of the LoK can be explained away as sufficiently advanced technology. Their prophecies aren’t so much foretelling of the future but rather historical accounts of previous cycles. History, literally repeats itself.
This means that the only miracle we have seen so far are from the One True God.
March 5th, 2009 at 12:13 am
OK, here is the deal. Anders new brain waves are #7 downloading/booting up Daniel that was safely stored in a little girl named Kara Thrace. The mystery of the opera house: when the data for 7 was transfered to Kara.
Just a hunch
March 5th, 2009 at 12:26 am
Awesome review, guys!
March 5th, 2009 at 12:33 am
These thoughts could’ve been brought up before, but 164 fraking comments? Im just showing off my laziness.
Anywho, I believe Islanded on a stream of stars refers to where Hera is being held and Hera was drawing the constellation for them to find her. That place might also be the source of the watchtower song. Maybe its near earth, and Anders looked up and drew inspiration for his song from those stars, kinda like how the 13th tribe looked up and saw they’re 12 brothers. (A stretch, i know)
I also believe he taught that song to Daniel, since i think all of the final 5 favored Daniel, cause if it was just one playing favorites, then Cavil should’ve got comfort that the others liked them all, or just him. But if all 5 loved Daniel and teaching him and making him more human than Cylon emotionally instead of programmed (afterall, he was “born” artistic), then Cavil could’ve easily flipped and makes his motivation for hating the 5 better instead of being betrayed by one and lashing out at all of them.
Also, i believe that Roslin has a strong connection to Hera, since Roslin was given her blood (or featal cells), and that cured her from cancer when she was near death. And when that source was taken away from her, so did the cure. Maybe Hera is sort of like the presidents non-rechargeable battery, and that makes the cure in season 2 seem like less of a plot device to keep the actress around and more of a foreshadow of the end.
March 5th, 2009 at 12:35 am
To Tiberius1111:
I don’t think this is what Baltar was taking about when he said “The only human solution”. It is about human verses cylon as his religion has mostly been about acceptance.
Instead the following scenario will occur.
At some point, the Cylons and human will grow together (even more so than now) but this doesn’t set will with certain people in Dog Town. Namely, the Sons of Aries is going to throw a fit and stage a second coup at a very inconvenient time. This leaves Adama with two choices since he will not have the resources to suppress the rebellion by this time.
1) he can request Centorians to come aboard and take out the trash. However, this is unacceptable since toasters killing humans again will reignite the conflict and hatred. That leaves “The only human solution.”
2) Baltar and his armed cult face off against the Sons of Aries. In this, I predict Baltar will give his life as a martyr for the cause of finally reconciliation with the Cyclons.
March 5th, 2009 at 4:42 am
Given the last episode, it seems clear that Watchtower is not simply a cool little piece of the Final Five mystery, but a central component of the entire mythology of the show. We now know that it is somehow connected to the Final Five, Hera and Starbuck. Hence, the song must be important.
It seems possible that if the song is important, then the lyrics of the song must be important as well. To be sure, the lyrics are relatively vague; anything could fit into them with enough explanation. However, I began to think that if three of the central mythological themes on the show are connected to the song, it is possible that a fourth is as well.
The lyrics themselves involve two people, a Joker and a Thief, discussing what seems to be the end of the world. If the lyrics can be used to describe the overarching story of the show, then who would these two characters be? Let’s take the two characters one at a time.
Thief – Someone who steals things, obviously. There have been many instances of people stealing in the show. Boomer has stolen Hera, Romo is a klepto, Gaeta stole Galactica, etc. However, RDM has discussed the mythology of the one true God on several occasions. At least once, he has mentioned the idea of one God trying to lift himself above all others, thus stealing the mantle of ‘God’. Thus, the thief of the song is possibly a hint to the one true God attempting to steal the fire of the other gods.
Joker – In ancient times, a source of humor in a formal situation, such as a king’s court. In this show, who has been a consistent source of humor, someone who is flippant even in the worst of times? Baltar.
Is the song talking about God and Baltar? Probably not. However, Baltar is not the only Baltar on the show. Head Baltar has been shown to be confident, smug and funny. And if Head Baltar is the Joker, then his conversational partner, the Thief, must be Head Six. If the Thief is God, then this would make sense considering that Head Six is the closest we have come to meeting God. A look at the lyrics seems to verify this conjecture:
“Two riders were approaching, the wind began to howl”.
The arrival of the two horseman is the beginning of terrible things. Given Anders’ comments about the Head beings that foreshadowed the destruction of Earth, it seems logical that the two riders would be Head Beings. Generally, the two horseman are taken to be the Joker and the Thief, especially if the lyrics are reversed. Thus, we can conclude that the Joker and Thief of the song are Head Baltar and Head Six, respectively.
Having established the two characters of the song, let’s go through some key lyrics to understand what they are talking about:
“‘There must be someway out of here,’ said the Joker to the Thief. ‘There’s too much confusion, I can’t get no relief”.
The Joker wishes to leave a place he is trapped in, as it is both complex and uncomfortable. What would Head Baltar want to leave? He seems to be able to appear anywhere at will. Now consider this line:
“But you and I, we’ve been through that, and this is not our fate”.
Thus, the Joker and the Thief are repeating something they’ve been through before. Like something that has happened before, and will happen again? Recall D’Anna’s line from Sometimes a Great Notion: “All of this is just going to happen again and again. So I’m getting off this merry-go-round”. Now, consider Ellen’s line from No Exit: “We gave you something wonderful: free will”. D’Anna has free will, and can choose to get off the merry-go-round of the Cycle of Time. However, is it possible that the Head Beings cannot?
The Head Beings, represented as Baltar and Six, are stuck in the Cycle of Time, a series of events that continue to occur over and over. In each of these cycles, a polytheistic species worshiping the Gods is nearly exterminated by monotheists worshiping the God who tried to overthrow the others , yet continues to live and eventually settles and flourishes again.
If this is true, then who are these Beings, and why would they be trapped in time? Who would have such power? The Gods, of course.
The Thief and the Joker are Gods who attempted to place themselves above the others, yet were defeated and punished. Given their representation in human form as Baltar and Six, their role in the uprising is likely similar. Head Six attempted to claim the throne of the Gods for herself, using Head Baltar as an unwitting accomplice due to her power over him. Nevertheless, Head Baltar continues to be punished for his role. The Cycle of Time is a prison, being used to punish the rebellious Gods by forcing them to repeat a cycle whereby they almost succeed in casting out the old Gods, yet fail every time and in doing so set up the next cycle.
If the Cycle of Time is a prison, then the universe itself is a prison, set up to continue to punish the rebellious Gods for their actions. All the players, Pythia, Roslin, Hera, Starbuck, are just characters in the story written to torment the two. This truth of the universe, expressed in Watchtower, is the music that Leoben says permeates the entire universe. The characters have gradually tapped into this music. In the Final Five case, an understanding of the truth of the universe allowed them to partially realize their role in the story, and thus their true nature. Starbuck’s understanding of the music has allowed her to continue moving towards her destiny. Yet these people only hear some of the music, getting only a vague understanding of the truth. Hera has heard all of it, and this is what makes her the most important little toaster in the universe.
March 5th, 2009 at 5:17 am
Expanding on my previous comments, I want to point out a few things both regarding this episode and certain unanswered questions. Firstly, the opera house. As we saw in this week’s episode, Dreilide Thrace once performed at the Helice Opera House. Assuming that he played Watchtower during that gig, and that this Opera House is the same as THE Opera House, then the Opera House is the core of the ‘music as the story of the universe’ idea. In Roslin’s dream, Hera is running towards what appears to be the main performance hall, where Dreilide Thrace would have performed Watchtower. However, two people stop her before she can enter: Six and Baltar. However, we have no idea which Six and Baltar are stopping her. Could it be Head Six and Head Baltar?
If Hera is the key to the series, the component that will allow Humans and Cylons to merge into one species and, thus, setting up the cycle to repeat itself once thousands of years have passed and the Human-Cylon hybrid race has created its own artificial life, then wouldn’t it make sense that the Head Beings would want to stop her? Head Six has long had an interest in Hera, as far back as 33. In Home, Pt. 2, she tells Baltar that she is an angel of God sent to guide him. To what end? “To the end of the human race”.
Thus, Hera entering the Opera House and realizing her role in continuing the Cycle of Time, and thus the punishment of the Head Beings by the Gods, is something that the Head Beings would want to stop. Allowing her to enter so would continue their imprisonment in the Cycle of Time, yet if they can stop her, their imprisonment will end as Cylons and Humans never fully integrate and eventually destroy each other. It is doubtful that Baltar and Caprica are the only ones the Head Beings are manipulating. Cavil must fall into their plans to prevent the joining of Cylons and Humans, even if he is unaware of their involvement.
March 5th, 2009 at 6:23 am
Thoughts on Cylons:
* Cylons must be able to age. Saul Tigh had been friends with Adama for thirty years (according to Bill in a conversation in S3 ‘Torn’). Bill surely would have noticed if his friend didn’t age. Ergo…cylons are capable of aging. The main reason we don’t see differently aged Cylons is probably due to production costs and casting.
* If Cylons can age, it logically follows that they could ressurrect into a body at any age period they like. Does that then mean that the bodies they resurrect into is a personal choice? Does Cavil enjoy having the body of an older man? Could there be older models of the 8’s or 6’s floating around? Young models of 1’s and 2’s?
* Perhaps I’m wrong and it’s just the F5 who are capable of aging.
* We know cybrids age. Hera is, and we’ve seen young Kara (cutie!!) so…kids born to cylons are capable of growing older. Are there copies that are designed to age at a human rate, such as Saul and Ellen must have, to ensure their intergration into human society is as smooth as possible? We know from flashbacks that when the F5 died, they were physically identical to their bodies now…was this a deliberate choice by RDM or a make-up budget too cheap to make Tigh look younger?
* If the F5 can age, as Saul did, why did Cavil choose to insert the F5 into human society at different times? Saul and Ellen would have been at around the same time. Galen, Tory and Tyrol would also have been introduced together as well. Why would there have been such a huge gap between them? There’s a good twenty years age difference between the Tighs and the others. What was Cavil planning?
* If Bill and Saul have been friends for thirty years, it stands to reason that there’s ten years that existed between the end of the war, and Saul’s insertion into human society. In this ten years the following occurred:
** F5 helped the Centurions perfect the human-Cylons.
** F5 helped to create the eight models.
** Cavil was created first, followed by Leoben, D’Anna, Simon, Doral, Six, Daniel and Sharon.
** There was time enough for Cavil to learn to hate Daniel and corrupt his line and permanently detsroy the model.
(** The F5 have knowledge of this event, so their insertion was AFTER Daniel’s ‘death’)
** If Cavil were to wipe the F5’s memories, he’d presumably have had to kill them, resurrect them and reprogramme them. (Assuming that the did need to be killed. They may not have had to, so I could be wrong) Did Cavil have help? Presumably no, BSG mythology suggests that Cavil worked alone. The other cylons had knowledge of the F5 but didn’t know/remember what they looked like. They weren’t encouraged to think about it, and it was considered a forbidden topic. Then again, if Cavil wiped their memories of the F5, he could have wiped someone’s memory of helping him.
** Cavil had to have altered the memories of all the other models. Six (He That Believeth In me): “I’ve been programmed never to think about them.” Why did he let them remember that there were another five models? He could have convinced them that they were it. It also stands to reason that Cavil messed with their memories about Daniel. The first mention that we had of a 13th Cylon came from a F5, both Anders and Ellen. Six was adament in the beginning of the series that there were 12 models. She had no reason to lie. D’Anna wanted to know the faces of the F5. If she’d known there was another Cylon, we’d have been discussing the Final Six (doesn’t have as cool a ring to it, though)
The ten years between the end of the First Cylon War and the first F5 insertion and memory wipe seems to have had a lot happening. Cavil was the one who orchestrated the events that led up to his ultimate plan.
CAVIL’S TO DO LIST:
* Destroy Daniel
* Wipe memories of F5
* Insert F5 into human society with human memories.
(random question: did Cavil give Ellen and Saul memories of being together, or did they come together at a later stage? Was it fate? Free will? Did they have the same urge that seemed to rush over Ander and Tory at the end of S3?)
* Allow to simmer and then stir.
* Set loose Centurions, basestars, Raiders and Heavy Raiders on the Twelve Colonies and await the destruction.
Was it Cavil who began the Second Cylon War? Did he mean for the F5 to live? Was it just coincidence that allowed Galactica to survive the first wave of attacks or did Cavil let it live, knowing that 2 of the 5 were aboard (Tigh and Tyrol)
Another copy of Cavil was revealed on Caprica, within Sam’s resistance group. Was he there to keep an eye on Sam and work out how Sam was responding?
Did Ellen originally die in the first wave of attacks, only to resurrect and be inserted (possibly by Cavil) onto the Rising Star for medical care? If this is true, did Cavil plan to just let the remainder of humanity chug along until they died of starvation etc.? S1 the Cylons seemed pretty gung ho about killing the rest of humanity, then eventually it tapered off quite a bit.
How exactly did Tory survive? What ship was she on and why was she on it? We know nothing of what she was doing for the first season and a half. Why exactly is she so very okay with being a Cylon? She went from being very staid and boring to throwing Cally out of an airlock (kudos, Tory, but seriously!!) Was this instinct to protect Galen, to whom she’d been in a relationship on earth? Does she now regret killing Cally now that she knows the truth of the Cylons, and who created them and where she fits in on the timeline?
The F5 were extremely influential on New Caprica. Did Cavil know this? Did he realise that his plan to humanise his forefathers had backfired spectacularly, and then wish to punish them for being so damn resilient in the face of such struggles? His plan seemed to be to prove that humanity sucked, but the F5 just kept on chugging through eveything that happened to them. Instead of hating humanity, they thrived on it and became more human. Ellen expounded on the human virtues that the 8 were given: Love, compassion, creativity, emotion. The F5 had that in abundance. So, Cavil, your evil plan sucked.
If the Cylons allowed the Galactica to continue to exist, which it seems that they did, why did they allow Pegasus to survive as well? There wasn’t a single significant character from Pegasus that was added to the main crew, and apart from some agnsty storylines, nothing really happened. Cylons getting sloppy or writers just wanting conflict and drama?
KARA THRACE AND HER SPECIAL DESTINY:
(May I just point out how insanely incredible it is that after being given maybe TWO lines about No.7-Daniel, we’ve all [myself included] jumped to the conclusion that he’s Kara’s father. Insanity! I will laugh my ass off if he’s not. If RDM threw him in to explain a plot hole without realising the minefield he was actually walkin into…muhahaha)
* I think it’s safe to assume that Kara MUST be a cybrid. The gigantic anvil sized hints that RDM threw at us is telling us that Kara is more than human, but not quite Cylon. She seems to have a lot of connections to a lot of different groups. She’s human. She’s got prophecies written about her in the Cylon world, and knows the prophecies of the human scriptures. She has a connection to the F5, knowing the painting in the Temple of the Five and knowing their triggering song of WatchTower. She’s also deeply religious, and when she prays, the gods seem to listen. Connections to humans, cylons, lord of Kobol and to the Final Five…interesting, no?
(I very much doubt that at this stage in the game RDM would introduce Beings of Light into this saga. Having not seen the original series, I have no clue what they are, but if they were thrown in now, with no prior explanation, I would have a fit.
* Kara and Hera are very alike. In Maelstrom, after Kara wakes up from her initial dream/nightmare, she speaks to Helo who tells her that Hera has bad dreams as well, waking up shaking and crying. What seems like innocent conversation becomes a lot more when looked at in hindsight. Hera draws pictures of the future, and we know Kara did as well (as recently as drawing the exploding basestars). Hera is being influenced by something that we can’t see (or the audience can’t see at least, who’s to say she doesn’t have an invisible friend…who tells her where to draw her ’stars’) and Kara is defintely being influenced (or is UNDER the influence, ne or the other)
* When Kara sees the Oracle in Maelstrom, she is told: “You learned the wrong lesson from your mother, Kara. You confused the messenger with the message.” What was it that her mother was meant to teach her? From Kara’s point of view, she only learned how to suffer, how to keep her pain inside and how to place a negative spin on all her own actions. “She told me that I was different from other kids, that I needed to be a warrior like her. Taught me that fear gets you killed, and anger keeps you alive.”
* Head-Not-Leoben tells Kara that he’s “here to prepare you to pass through the next door. To discover what hovers in the space between life and death.” Which is what, exactly?
After Kara’s ‘death’ she sees earth and it’s exceptionally clear to her. She comments that its as though she’s seen it before, as though she’d never left. Ellen would know if she were a F5 (or 6 as it were), Anders says he has no answers for her. Is it some sort of genetic memory? Or something like her knowledge of the mandala? Something she’d never seen, but drew over and over again? If we take Kara at her word, and she’s seen earth before, how and when did it happen?
Ignoring the fact that there’s too many holes to allow for Kara’s resurrection on the orbiting ship on Earth (if it’s even still there, because theorectically that ship would be the same one that the F5 flew off on to join the 12 Colonies) where did Kara’s new viper come from? All indications seem to point to there being nothing left of civilisation on earth, so where did the materials to build it come from? Why build a perfect Mark II, and not a Mark VII like Apollo’s? Did she FTL jump to the Ionian nebula to meet up back with the fleet? How did whatever sent her there know when and where the fleet would be? Could Vipers be FTL capable and why aren’t they if it’s possible?
If Kara was resurrected, then you’d think that the logical choice to corroborate her story would be for her body to be an EXACT copy of the one that had ‘died’ in Maelstrom. There is a very significant difference between Maelstrom and He That Believeth In Me. Kara’s hair has four months worth of growth to it. Her hair was at ear length when she ‘died’ and shoulder length when she returned. How did this get overlooked by however helped her resurrect? Or, alternatively, if it’s natural growth, were Kara’s memories wiped, and whoever wiped them just overlooked that detail?
CENTURIONS:
* We’ve seen that the human Cylons keep the Centurions as slaves to a point. They are used as muscle, both for killing and for grunt work. On New Caprica, it was the Centurions that did all the work towards building stuff, and the humans sat back and supervised.
* Cavil warns the others not to turn off the ‘inhibitors’ within the Centurions. Their ‘free will’ button as it were. So, with free will coming into play, the Centurions would turn on their creation. Talk about karmic retribution for Cavil, who turned on HIS creators (F5)….all of this has happened before and will happen again….
It seems to be plausible to assume that the Centurion Cylons were the first type to be created. Both by the Colonies, and by the Kobolions, who seemingly created that tech 4,000 years ago. The Kobolion Cylons left to create the 13th Tribe on earth…where both human remains and Centurion remains were found. So…safe to assume that Cenurions came first, and once again created a human-likeness, still Cylon, but with the image of a human.
If the cycle is repeating, and the Centurions are a helluva lot smarter than we seem to give them credit for, is it plausible to also assume that the Centurion type Cylons were the ones who nuked Earth to annihilate the human form cybrids? (Remembering that after 2,000 odd years, they no longer resurrect, but pro-create.) So, Centurions created human-form Cylons with Resurrection Technology (Res.Tech) who later were able to procreate. Centurions wipe out Cylons, but F5 had plan in place to escape in an effort to warn the 12 Colonies to ‘play nicely or you’ll be sent to your rooms…or killed, whichever comes first’)
Everything seems to start with the Centurions. They created human-form Cylons. They started their religion of the One True God. They created something that they couldn’t control, and it eventually turned around to control them. Cylons put ‘inhibitors’ into Centurion programming, making them no better than slaves. It wasn’t humans who created that technology (though they REALLY should have) it was the Cylons.
So, why then has Cavil got such a huge issue with slavery? He’s not much better, in fact he’s WORSE! He’s taken away Centurion free will, and replaced it with drones who can’t even speak. They don’t have free will, and if they did, they’d be shooting at Cavil. What does that tell us about where the line should be drawn in the sand? He decided he was better than the Centurions and enslaved them. Now he wants to destroy humanity for enslaving them too? Buddy, look in the mirror!
But, where, then did the idea for religion stem from for the Centurions? Where did they come up with the idea of the One True God? Was it based on the Lords of Kobol? Was it taken from an earth mythology? Ellen says that the idea was the Centurions, so is it 40 years old or 4000 years old?
* When the 13th tribe set out for Earth, were they all Cylons? Was it just the Centurions? Did any humans go with them? Did any Centurions stay on the 12 Colonies? Why did the Centurions all leave for one place together? Why were they allowed to, if they were created to be used to make life easier for humans (if that is why the Kobolians created them?)
* The first Cylon war was forty years ago. How long had Cylons been around before they rebelled? Was the technology new or old? Who made the technology? What was its original purpose and programming, beyond making life easier for humans? How did they evolve if the programming was only to allow it basic thought? Was their a programmer who was sympathetic to the Cylons, and thought of them as more than robots? Did someone think that giving robotic slaves free will would be a good idea and what drugs were they on? Will we get these answers in ‘Caprica’?
Anyhoo, that’s a long stream of consciousness. Glad you liked the term ‘cybrid’. I thought it was less confusing than calling them hybrids, when canon tells us a hybrid controls a basestar. So…cybrid. Much easier. Thanks for the Shoutout!
March 5th, 2009 at 8:30 am
Oh my … did anybody notice what the theme to the second movement of the piano player’s symphony was. Unless my memory is really amiss its the Cylon / Baltar theme from the orginal 1970s series. If there were any doubt about the identity of the piano player then that’s the clincher.
(Sorry if this has been said before. Over in England we’re about five days behind you if you download the episodes legitimately from sky so it’s a little difficult to read through the hundred-odd comments in one swoop.)
March 5th, 2009 at 9:04 am
I would be happy to donate my organs to cylon research if that gives me that signed photo!!
I´ve been a fan ever since I first saw the 1979 movie.. now I have everything on DVD.
Sorry, no theories about who´s who or anything.
Greetings from Sweden.
March 5th, 2009 at 9:24 am
The Cylon Centurians created God (the one God) in their image, i.e. a singular rational fair and rather unsypathetic god for everybody, not just for the humans. The one god is a slave god whose existence necessitates the struggle for liberation. (There is a parallel here with the Hebrews who were also the slaves of the Egyptians and created One God, i.e. from slavery through the metaphysical possibility of equality comes the idea of liberation, but also of war, vengence and retribution.) Monotheism embodies liberation from the point of view of the oppressed.
Thus from the Centaurian point of view the polytheistic humans are sinning against god by treating them as slaves; as actually the significant seven now (+ Daniel) egregrious eight also seem to have done by restricting their free-will.
With the construction of hybrids the Cylons attempted to create godlike beings in reality but these seem at least partially to have been driven mad by being coupled to the ships (and unsuccessful attempt to bond with the humans). The final five gave them a technology (to stop the war) that would give them a way of becoming biological beings and individuals (all centurians are copies). But somehow this got bastardised.
Instead of a new race of Cylons we get the Egregious Eight who are not individuals but multiple copies unable to die or – at least among themselves – procreate. Their individuality and ability to live meaningful lives is severely compromised more by their production line nature than their immortality (the scenes with Boomer and Sharon this episode depict the full pain of just being an unrecognised and replacable copy).
Hence, their continued envy of the humans by the cylons and the original desire to wipe them out, but also difficulty with wiping out the humans completely. To be more fully humans they really need to merge with the humans, although this implies contradictions and ultimately the end of pure cylons.
Cavil / John at least realises this – but cannot quite resolve it – and is striving to control or destroy the hybrids, has wiped out the memory of their creators and is being forced to restrict the freewill of the other Cylons in order to stop them carrying things to their logical concluson.
Kara Thrace is the first proper hybrid and daughter of one of the eight cylons. She is the hope for the future and ending of the cycle but also a sign that the days of the Egregrious Eight are numbered. Thrace is thus the harbinger of death, that the cylons need to become mortal individuals to fully realise their existences.
I suspect that the five have created the other humanoid cylons as unable to procreate together specifically to end the cycling and bring peace between humans and cylons.
I also think (and hope) that the resolution is not going to require much in the way of Deus ex Machina (beings of light etc) because BSG is an Epic of Human Self Knowledge and turning even from rational religion towards an embracing of humanity in all its complexity. At least I think that’s the best reading.
NB Most of the supernatural stuff can probably be explained by the existence of Starbuck who we now see has projection abilities (possibly unconscious) from the beginning and perhaps Balter has similar for reasons yet to be explained.
March 5th, 2009 at 10:32 am
Matt -
Maybe someone caught this already, but I realized a mistake you made in the cast – You talked about how odd it was that Helo didn’t know the difference between Boomer and Athena when they were on the floor, and I’ll agree with you there – he already knew he was a rock star among the 8’s, so any oddity in his wife should have tipped him off that someone might have been impersonating her.
Granted that, you compared it to the scene on the Basestar when Helo was getting a back rub. Technically speaking, Helo was weirded out precisely BECAUSE he knew that it wasn’t Athena, but yet felt like he was getting the exact same backrub that his wife had learned to give him. I think he left that room because he guessed that this 8 wanted a little something from him, but what weirded him out was that he couldn’t tell the difference between them
@ Kattie: Regarding aging cylons – biologically, bodies wear down over time. There’s no way around that. Aging isn’t something humanity invented as it evolved for the fun of it. It is the natural by-product of the wearing down of our biological machinery. Cylons thus age as well, albeit by different mechanism. It shouldn’t be so surprising that human like machines wear down over time like our cars do. To say that they don’t or shouldn’t age would be a gross oversight on the part of the producers.
@JJC1970 and Adir: Kara a Daniel? I mean, she’s got a thing for painting Mandalas, but she doesn’t strike me as the artsy type… I’m sorry, but that just doesn’t do it for me – she’s a bloodthirsty killer and very good at it. How is that like Daniel?
March 5th, 2009 at 10:55 am
Some great comments here. Love the new intro.
Regarding Starbuck. It seems to me that we’re missing the Kobol connection. After firmly believing that Kara was the daughter of Tigh/Ellen, I’ve been given enough evidence to disprove this, as in Ellen stating that they were never able to have children. But I don’t like the Daniel as Daddy theory either. RDM as made it clear that Hera is the only cybrid (great word). Daniel could very well be a red herring, merely retcon to explain the missing number in the cylon numbering scheme. I can’t imagine that we will be introduced to another new cylon, with only 3 episodes left. My money is on Kobol. We have been told that resurrection technology started on Kobol. It seems to me that the most likely device by which to resurrect Kara (and her ship) is through this Kobol connection. It wouldn’t have been mentioned if it wasn’t important would it????? I have the feeling that Kara is the woman that Sam sung the song to 2000 years ago. I think that she has been resurrected before. Perhaps she is a lord of kobol?
Regarding Head Characters. I really can’t figure out who the head characters are though. Lords of Kobol? For the longest time I thought that there were all just nuts, seeing visions, hearing voices, but when Baltar was being beat up (don’t recall which episode this was) Head Six actually held him up like a rag doll. Head Six seems to be able to actually manifest herself in flesh. (unless this was a mistake – I think that there have been lots of those, for example – How was boomer able to find the fleet?????? We will never know. The writers didn’t think about it. We will have to suspend our disbelief on a lot of these things.)
Or are the head characters Angels sent from God, as Head Six claims to be? This doesn’t sit well with me. Too religious. Too inflammatory. Too mystic. Turing this show into “touched by an Angel?” Where God manifests him/herself in the real world? I dunno. Seems corny to me. There is obviously some higher power at work here – I like the beings of light/lords of Kobol explanation better that simply “God did it” and that this whole thing has been some sort of Holy war.
And just who was Pythia anyway???….. I hope they explain that one. Could Kara be Pythia?
I liked the episode, but I must admit, I’m a bit sick of the FF cylons. I want to see more Adama/Roslin/Apollo/starbuck.
I just got back from Vancouver where a “friend of a friend” in the biz mentioned that the final episode was “a vomit of information”. my gods! It will have to be. There are just too many unanswered questions.
March 5th, 2009 at 11:40 am
Signa Jade – I agree Kara as Daniel is a stretch. I only gave it a 5% chance. A Cybrid is far more likely, but RDM throws us twists all the time, so anything is possible.
P.S. I’m going to miss BSG. Last year we lost Boston Legal, now BSG. I am running out of intelligent TV to watch. Id rather watch Downloaded (season 4’s weakest episode) than the best episode of Survivor any day.
March 5th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
I think that Daniel is the one behind the scenes as he is playing a balance to Cavil. He is also the most likely explaination of Starbuck`s resurrection, maybe he was flying the heavy raider in maelstrom and took Starbuck to Earth. I also think that he is the head characters and that he is just taking the head character forms in order to manipulate those that see them into doing things that bring things closer to his goal(s), like giving Baltar guns is setting it up so that Daniel has an army of God lead by Baltar who is being manipulated by head six when he shows up in the last episode. My theory is supported by Ellen saying that Hera is plugged into something that has been manipulating them all. For all of those people who don`t know why Hera couldn`t tell the difference between Athena and Boomer was that Boomer shoved that drink into her face which was probably drugged before Hera could have noticed the difference betwwen them and Helo`s just stupid to explain his reason.
March 5th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
After this episode, i had to watch “No Exit” again.
There was one moment in this episode where Anders is talking about number 7. Starbuck wants to know who it is, cause of course….she want’s to know is she is it.
And his response was:
A: “Yes…7 wa….7 w…..7 was the…..Daniel……”
S: “You sure about the word? Daniel?”
A: “Yes….he died! Daniel died…She was 7″
I didn’t notice the last part there…the first time i watched the episode….”She was 7″.
Is he talking about a girl who was 7 years old here? Or is he talking about her…number 7?
A lot of the words coming out of his mouth, makes no sense….and he makes some corrections. His brain doesn’t seem to manage getting the right words.
So maybe something is wrong here? He says he’s sure about the name…Daniel. But what about the rest? And are we sure then…that it’s Daniel….and not Danielle?
It seems to obvious to me that this Daniel is supposed to be Daniel Graystone….It’s too simple. It’s what the writers wants us to believe.
After this last episode, it also seems they want us to beleieve that the Starbuck-head-piano-man is Daniel……since the Daniel model was artistic and sensitive.
I also can’t help thinking about Baltar’s comment to Gaeta from earlier….”I know exactly what you are”.
Is Gaeta….Daniel?
March 5th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
I agree that Helo wouldn’t have known – Boomer had Athena’s recent memories from her download when Helo shot her so that she could get Hera from the basestar to Doc Cottle way back. So, she knows the way they get it on!
And why would Helo expect anyone else in the pilot showerroom? The 8’s doing retrofit probably aren’t allowed there and Boomer is locked up. So…
I think Roslin bites it tomorrow night. Ahh. Sucks.
March 5th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
I was rewatching the scene where Anders talks about the Daniel model Cylon. The reason why was to see if what Manipura was right about Ander’s comment saying “She was the 7th” (which turned out to be correct) and I noticed another detail. After Ander screams to Kara “I stood up for you on the Demetrius! YOU OWE ME!”, there is a shot of Starbuck and in the background, guess what you can hear before it cuts to Caprica asleep in Tigh’s room? The piano from Joe’s bar playing a little bit of “All Along the Watchtower”!. And that was before “Deadlock”, where the piano and the player was introduced.
March 5th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
Wow. So many theories. Some worth exploring. Others worth shooting down.
If Kara is Danial, that would mean that the corruption of Danial would have made him into a young girl capable of aging like a normal human. Which I think is unlikely. Also he/she would had to have been inserted into the lives of Kara’s parents.
I think its more likely that Danial is Kara’s father. But the problem with that is that RDM stated that Hera was the only Crybrid.
Another interesting theory is that Kara is the girl that Ander’s played “The Song” for back on Earth 2000 years ago. That would mean that Kara is a Cylon from Earth. my theory takes that theory a bit further. i think Kara is from Earth but she is also Human, or she could be Pythia, or both. Or she could be a Cylon from Earth and be Pythia. Anyway, i think Kara has a connection to Pythia, whether she is Human or Cylon, and its quite possible that she is from Earth, and was reborn through Danial.
March 5th, 2009 at 3:35 pm
Prepare yourself. This comment is a little lengthy.
1) Starbuck, Dreilide, and Leoben.
Ok so I think it was pretty obvious that the head-piano guy was Dreilide Thrace, Kara’s dad. I think everyone agrees with that. I also think that Dreilide is Daniel (Number 7). Others have said this and it makes sense. A sensitive, artistic piano player who disappears from his family about 30(?) years ago, and first name starts with a “D”. If he’s not Daniel than this is one big red herring. Plus there was much emphasis on a connection between Kara and Hera with that song. A song originating from from one of the FF.
Maybe Anders taught Daniel/Dreilide the song and then Daniel passed it along to Kara. As far as Hera…who knows? So if Kara’s dad is a cylon, then wouldn’t that make Leoben her uncle in a way? Maybe the reason Leoben is so obsessed with Kara is because she’s his niece. If so does Leoben remember Daniel? If so were they close? They both seem like they would bond better than they would with the other models. Still none of this explains how there are two Kara’s and a new Viper…..I got nothing….
Still the Kara Leoben relationship just got a little weird….
It also explains how Socrata knew Kara was special and had a destiny. She probably found out Daniel’s (and Kara’s) true natures and knew of the FF plan to unite Cylon and Human to break the cycle. She was preparing Kara to become what she was meant to be. “The Harbinger of Death”. The one who will bring all of them to their end so the Hera can lead the new generation to their destiny. Remember that saying that has been repeated several times? For “children” to reach their full potential, their “parents” have to die. Since that has been mentioned in at least three episodes across several seasons it must be important. In other words in order for the Cybrids to reach their full potential their “parents” (Humans and Cylon) have to die. Also Head-Six mentioned she’s there to protect and guide Baltar to the end of the human race. They have to end so that Cybrids can reach their full potential and reach their destiny to break the cycle of death and rebirth. And Kara Thrace leads them to that end.
2) The Opera House
I think I understand the Opera House vision now. Well sorta. See everyone represents a group. Athena represents the Cylon faction that wants to destoy the Humans. Roslin represents the humans that want to destroy the cylons. And they are seperate from each other. Each trying to survive without the other. Keeping their races pure. But then there’s Hera. The Cybrid. She’s running towards a different room. Forcing the two factions to come together. She is then grabbed by Six who represents the rebel cylons and Baltar who represents the humans who are ok with the integration.
Think about it. So far the 8s haven’t always been too kind to humans. What with all the things Boomer has done and the one 8 that was with Gaeta in the Raptor. Roslin has been trying to keep the two races seprate (though that has recently changed a little). Six and Baltar have always tried to be with the other. Then that door slams separating the Separatists (John and Gaeta) and the Hybrids so that the Hybrids (Six and Baltar) can raise the new generation of Gods children, the Cybrids. It was a vision of things to come. Some of which has come true. The two are indeed separate now. The door slamming represents the Cylon civil war and the Mutiny on Galactica. Those things had to happen so that the two races would come together and break the never ending cycle.
3) Galactica
So Galactica is dying, and not even Cylon goo can save her. Much like how the Cybrid blood couldn’t save Roslin. They’re temporary fixes, and that’s it. It’s all apart of the cycle theme. Pure Cylon doesn’t work and pure Human doesn’t work. Hybrids/Cybrids are the future. Galactica won’t survive and I’ve got a feeling the Baseship won’t survive either since it’s badly damaged as well. Perhaps they need too stop trying to hold onto the past and embrace the future. Perhaps now that the crews are integrating big time they need a new ship. A hybrid of the Battlestars and the Baseships. Much like the two races need a Hybrid (Hera, Kara) to survive. It’s about the two becoming one.
Maybe they need to build a new ship. Combining Cylon and Human tech to create a Hybrid ship. A Basestar if you will. Cause if they start not only sharing ships but building them together as well. Then we’ll know that they really are together. A Basestar would represent that the cycle has finally been broken. Now if only we can get the 1s, 4s, and 5s to join them…
So in order for the cycle to end, the two need to become one. But will it truly break the cycle? What if thousands of years later the Cybrid race forgets the past and it’s all myths to them and build their own AI and repeat? Can the cycle ever be truly broken? We may never know…
Anyway I think that’s enough for know. I guess I’ll wait till Friday to post more in the comments.
March 5th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
SG15Z – I don’t think there is time to build a new ship. (Certainly not before the end of the series!) The Gray Lady will have a last jump or two before they find a new world. Maybe they will take her down bit by bit to keep the New Colonists alive on whatever world they find. (New Colonists – Rebel Cylons and Humans living together.)
I think what you said about the Opera House makes sense. Especially watching Roslin’s fists clentch as Lee congratulated Sonjia on representing the basestar in the new government. Leaders of the New Colonists.
This would suggest that Lee isn’t going to make it. He might see the Promised Land, but never enter it. Maybe lost with his father in Galactica’s last jump. Maybe lost in rescuing Hera from Cavil.
The last battle with Cavil is going to be a gunfight. The New Colonists have absoluetly nothing to lose. As Sun Tzu would say, they are on Desperate Ground. Accepting that you are on Desperate Ground – that it’s either win the battle or die in the attempt – you lose all sense of fear. Indeed, accepting that it is all or nothing allows a small band to do incredible feats! (Think the 300 Spartant that held off the Persian Army. Or the Roman Centurian Horatio holding off the Germanic invaders single handedly to save his legion. {after the bridge was pulled down behind him, he swam the raging Ruhr river in his battle armor and made it to the other side.})
Very intense episodes coming up!
March 5th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
Shauna – Yeah I know there isn’t time. What I mean was later down the line post-finale maybe. Right now they don’t have the time or resources for that matter. All the material they need is the ships they’re on right now, and that might not be a good idea.
I hope Lee makes it. After all he and Kara have to get together and make a lot of Cybrid babies!
March 5th, 2009 at 5:19 pm
This episode seems to imply a connection between Starbuck, her father and the Opera House that Athena, Roslin and Caprica went to during the end of the third season. If Dreilide Thrace, Kara’s dad, is actually Model 7 Daniel, how did he survive the purge Ellen referenced two episodes back? Doesn’t it put into question if Number 1, Cavil, was truly responsible for the destruction of his entire line? Isn’t it possible that, given Ellen’s implication that Daniel was a tortured artist, Daniel himself may have been responsible for destroying his own line?
Boomer’s actions during this season, and in retrospect since S3’s Rapture, leave me confused about how the character we once knew changed so drastically. To me, it seemed like Boomer was set up as the antagonist to Athena’s protagonist these days. Boomer was turned into a villian, but it also felt wrong and out of character because no context was given for the change in the first place. All the events prior to S3’s Rapture showed the same Boomer from Season 1 – her choice to work with Caprica Six to stop the Cylon war against humanity, her arguments for humanity on New Caprica and telling them they needed to “stop acting like butchers,” the look of horror on her face as Doral held a gun to Baltar’s head, it was dropped in favor of making Boomer Athena’s opposite. Boomer, the person arguing for humanity on New Caprica, has sided with Cavil, the person who said the Cylons should massacre humanity into a “managable number?” Those were Sharon’s words on New Caprica when she was in a meeting with her people – if she knew then what her people were doing was wrong, how can Boomer say she didn’t realize the Cylons actions on NC during this episode would turn out so bad? When Jammer asked for her help regarding Cally, the woman who killed her on Galactica and married Galen Tyrol, her ex-lover, she forgave her and tried to save her. These scenes cause problems with the person we’re witness to in Rapture, who spouses Cavil’s rhetoric about humanity and Cylons and now steals babies and sleeps with Helo to espouse soap opera moments that are ridiculous. If she recognized the error of her people’s behavior on New Caprica, how can it be a surprise to her that it would turn out so bad?
Boomer’s shift to the “dark side” was abrupt in Rapture, and the threat against Hera, and now kidnapping her, seemed completely story-driven rather than character-driven. It’s like when Athena shoots Natalie earlier in the season – why does she do it? Is she hallucinating? Athena was rational when she spoke to Tyrol. Did she confuse Natalie for the Six in her dream? No, because Caprica Six confirms she was the one in the dream who Hera runs to, and she felt she needed to protect the child. It isn’t even like Natalie’s death is brought up again, even among the Cylons. Even Roslin’s comments to Tyrol this episode seem strange and don’t mesh with what we know. “Personal feelings are what Sharon Valerii preys upon. You know that. Better than any of us. You need to clear your head. She is a danger in the brig, out of the brig. Danger to us, danger to our Cylon allies.” Somehow Laura Roslin knows Boomer is bad news, in or out of the cell, but how? Ending the war, trying to save Cally, giving Tyrol information on NC, having an OOC moment during Rapture? Adama is angry she shot him, but it’s suddenly dropped that she was a sleeper agent. I’m not arguing that the character should have been stagnant, but the problem is that, even with the brief scenes we were given on New Caprica, Boomer wasn’t blind to how bad her people were handling things on New Caprica, even when Callie threatened her. And what did Boomer do in response to Callie’s hatred of her? She tried to save her. What happened to Boomer to cause her to be the antagonist in this episode? Why the 180? I’m hoping we get an explanation for Boomer’s actions next episode.
Just my two cents.
March 5th, 2009 at 5:29 pm
Just to stray off topic for a minute, I have been watching my dvr’s of Dollhouse and though the jury is still out on whether I like the show, in the second episode, Romo lampkin was on it playing bad cop to Helo’s good cop, so It was good to see him in something other than galactica because he is one of my favorite characters.
March 5th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
@ Goku is Cylon – Sorry to do this, but it’s “Daniel” not “Danial”.
March 5th, 2009 at 7:33 pm
With Boomer’s change, try to remember she tried desperately to work with the humans again. It was all she had wanted. Yet, time and time again, she was denied this wish. Her last strand of hope, Hera, was taken away from her. She had no where else to turn. So Boomer chose to go in the complete opposite direction. Why would she keep trying to be human when she knows its a lie and that it wouldn’t work out when she can be the best machine she can ever be? Also, remember that Cavil has been planting thoughts and manipulating her. I imagine after the loss of Hera he visited her when she was at her lowest.
March 5th, 2009 at 8:17 pm
Boomer deserves to have every parent on the ship walk up to her and punch her in the face. The Agathons get first dibs. What a bitch! I’m just calling her whole line the crazy 8s. Of the three 8’s we’ve gotten to know 2 have had questionable sanity.
Okay, that’s out of the way.
Questions, so many questions.
Kara Thrace
1. Why are some Cylons so convinced she’s special? Not only was Leoben obsessed with her, but Simon seemed to think she was special too, when he was busy stealing her eggs. He was all sympathetic talking about how the abuse she suffered might make her doubt her abilities to be a parent. I don’t think that was all designed just to get her to agree to the free 100 mile checkup.
2. What was with the spectacular mind frak on New Caprica, making her think that kid was hers? They seemed to be trying to get her to go all maternal. Why? Is she supposed to be the new mother of the Cybrid race? Leoben seemed to be hoping for a live mating not just an egg donation. Their belief that love was required kind of explains why he didn’t just force her. Why are some cylons invested in her getting knocked up? Does someone know something they aren’t sharing with the rest of the group? (I’m looking at you Cavil!)
The FF theme song
1. Who programmed them with it? Not Ellen – she was as surprised as the others, and recognized the tune despite having her memory back. Not Cavil – he’s not doing them any favors if he can help it. He wanted them to die, resurrect and declare him righteous. I don’t think having them wake up pre-reboot was part of the plan. There’s a player we haven’t met yet.
2. What’s the purpose of the theme song? To make them aware they are cylons? To point them to a location – music is math after all.
3. Can all cylons hear/recognize it? I don’t think so. Was the six that came back with Athena in the brig when the FF realized what they were? Why can only the FF hear it? If it is a clue to some location, it gives them an upper hand against Cavil. And if Daniel is who woke them up, he would have more reason than anyone to keep them one step ahead of Mr. Twisty.
4. Looking at the last ep of season 3 I realized that there was a fleet wide power outage when they heard All Along the Watchtower. Only when Tyrol said, “We’re Cylons, and we have been from the start” did the power come back up. What can simultaneously knock power systems over such a wide area? Who could do that? How? And why? How did they know what Tyrol said? Two things stand out: the power outage gave them the cover they needed to move through the ship without suspicion, and it would have also made them realize the music was within them and not in the ship as Tigh originally thought.
5. Why does Kara know the song? I’m convinced her father is Daniel. Of course RDM and Co. may pull the rug out from under us yet again.
6. What do the other patrons at Joe’s think she’s doing when yammering at Slick from across the bar? With Baltar’s head characters, our Gaius clearly knows he has to explain his outward reactions to others. Kara makes no such attempts to hide that she’s talking to someone who’s not there. Is everyone used to drunken ramblings from Thrace? Or is she projecting without actually moving like Tyrol?
There’s a lot o’ ’splaining to do. I really hope its not a vomit of info at the end.
March 5th, 2009 at 8:19 pm
OK – I am tired of people saying Daniel Graystone is Daniel #7. Think folks: Daniel Graystone create the old-fashioned metal Cylons. Before the FF showed up. These Cylons rebelled and started the first war. Then the FF showed up (during this war). The FF learned that the Centurions were trying to develop organic bodies. In order to end the war, the FF agreed to assist them, producing model numbers One to Eight. So… how did they then invent Daniel Graystone? Perhaps Daniel #7 is named after Graystone. That would be a neat plot twist for Caprica… but he CANNOT be Daniel #7.
March 5th, 2009 at 9:15 pm
Apologies if this has already been said, but Athena was programed to be indistinguishable from Boomer to fool Helo in the first place. The cylon that downloaded Sharon’s memories was not Boomer, that was after the split with Cavil.
March 5th, 2009 at 9:19 pm
MUST. WIN. JAMES. CALLIS’. AUTOGRAPH!!!!
I have no idea if i can win Fan of the Week twice, but here goes lol.
This theory is probably complete BS but i’m more or less drawing up blanks on anything else, since my T-shirt winning theory got deep sixed almost immediatley after Blood on the Scales :/
For all of you out there, who is convinced that the Number Seven Cylon model- Daniel is Starbucks dad, I would beg to differ. Ron Moore said in his podcast that the character Daniel was going to have a bigger significance in Caprica. I currently am In the camp of people who belive that Daniel, is infact Daniel Greystone of the Caprica.
Here’s why- the plot of Caprica clearly states that Greystone invents the technology to bring his dead daughter back to life as a Skinjob. This to me at first didn’t make much sense, in the wake of No Exit. Where Sam Anders clearly stated that the Centurions that the Colonials developed had no idea how to go about making Skinjob technology, so how could one random human scientist be able to not only invent Skinjob technology by himself, but also invent resurection technology for HUMANS.
So i started to think about it this way. It’s fair to assume that the Centurions (prior to the end of the First Cylon war) had no clue about Earth. So what the hell would suddenly convince them, that machines could evolve to the point where they were completly Biological? From the perspective of metal machine that would be a hard concept to fathom- unless you had seen someone else do it already. Aka Greystone’s skinjob daughter.
Now, at this point we have no idea where Caprica is going to begin, let alone end. So i’m more or less guessing here- but I’m guessing that the Centurions kidnap Greystone, or something to that effect to try and get the information they need out of him to make Humanoid Cylons. Greystone refuses and the Cylons try and use the same Mind Probing Technique that Cavil was going to use on Ellen to get the information they need to make Skinjobs. However something goes wrong and they only get bits of information out of him- why that all the hybrids seen in Razor were failures.
So then the Final Five from Earth show up and give them the Centurions the Skinjob and Resurection technology. And create the 8 cylon models- one of which is a clone of Daniel Greystone, much in the same way he cloned his daughter and gave him the memories from his orignal body. Being the genious scientist and artist he must have been back on the Colonies, he becomes popular with the Final Five- much to the Jealousy of John Cavil (espcially due to the fact his model is based on a human), so he kills off the entire production line.
So what about Starbucks dad I hear you ask? Well, yes I do agree with the idea that Starbuck is a Cybrid (aka human/cylon baby). But if her Father isn’t Daniel then who is it? Well I would argue that since it’s hard to say that the Final Five were the only survivors of the Earth holocaust (i mean, it’s not like Galactica knew about Pegasus right?) so what if- there was actually a sixth survivor from Earth- the true final cylon aka Starbucks Dad. He arrives on the colonies and gets married and has a Cyrbid baby. 30 or so years later Starbuck dies and gets resurcucted right?
Well that doesn’t really make much sense either. Yes, we know there is some kind of Resurction Facility on Earth- but even if it is, it’s not like Vipers get reincarnated right? So how did that end up on Earth.
Well lets get into the really big guess work now
We don’t know what wiped out the 13th tribe of Earth- but we do know from Anders that the Final Five were going to warn the Colonies of creating artifical life. So it’s fair to assume that, that this Artifcial Life is what wiped out Earth.
Now, what IF this Artifcial Life was the Cylons trying to genetically engineer pure Humans (oh the Irony XD). And that these humans rebelled and caused the holocaust on Earth. I recon it is fair to assume that obviously, even though they are ancient, that the original tribes were extremely technologically advanced. So how much farther down the line could have technology could have advanced in 3000 years? Would it really need to? Once you can travel at faster than light speeds do you really need to worry about anything else?
What I’m trying to get it is, is that maybe the humans have been using Contemporary Vipers for a very long time. And that some of those vipers were being kept on Earth or something to that effect. So that when the Artifcial Humans that the 13th Tribe created rebelled- and the human worriors stole these vipers and used them to fight the 13th tribe.
And one of these Ancient Warriors was STARBUCK.
Starbuck was also born as a Cybrid child to an Artifical Human mother, and either a. the same father we saw in someone to watch over me. or b. another 13th tribe Cylon.
I hope your still following, cos this is where it gets really complex XD
Starbuck fights in the war on Earth bettween the Artifcial Humans and the 13th Tribe. Her viper gets toasted and she dies on Earth- aka the body that we see in “Sometimes a great notion”. If you think about it, it makes alot more sense. Okay yes she was wearing Starbucks dog tags, but the Artificial Humans could just have had a similar version of the Colonial Fleet and hence the Dog Tags look similar. Or maybe identical due to Starbucks connection to the Lords of Kobol or whatever. It sure makes a hell of alot more sense than:
Step 1. Viper flies into tornado.
Step 2. Viper blows up.
Step 3: Something somthing
Step 4: Viper ends up on Earth.
Unless there was some kind of Wormhole lurking at the bottom of the tornado, doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.
So Ancient Starbuck (as we will refer to her as) dies, but becomes a Hero among the Artifical Humans, and a feared demon to the 13th Tribe Cylons. So the Final Five pay tribute to her when they return to the temple of the Five on the Algae planet and leave that sumbol behind- the Symbol of the Hero of the Artifical Humans- STARBUCK’s symbol.
But- she has the ability to resurrect as a child. So, Father we saw in Someone to watch over to me travels to the Colonies and thus OUR Starbuck is born there, as a resurction of the one who died on Earth. This would explain why it sounded like “she had been there before” when she was describing what Earth was like to Adama.
So thus comes along Maelstrum, and Starbuck sees her Symbol on the photo of the Temple of the Five that Helo shows her. Triggering some kind of hidden memory inside of her. Thus comes her obbession to fly into the Tornado and causes her die in a similar way that Ancient Starbuck died.
Starbucks dad however- must have known about her importance, and left a resurection ship or somthing to that effect in the Nebula that the fleet traveled to at the end of Season 3. So that Starbuck could be resurected and become the next sign post on the way to Earth. Starbucks dad- is the one who has been manipulating everything the whole time.
So what is Starbucks secret destiny? Leading the fleet to Earth was only half of it. The other half is leading them all to the new home of the Artifical Humans. OUR EARTH.
See, why can’t school essays be more fun to write, lol.
March 5th, 2009 at 9:31 pm
Hi, Damokingh. Thanks for the feedback…I think we’re basically saying the same thing regarding the last “Human Solution” – though you went into greater detail and clarified the point (thanks). I did not intend to suggest that Baltar would literally start a “Big Gun” revolution against the Admiral or Galactica. In the episode “Deadlock” Baltar says to the Admiral:
“Galactica is slipping away from you, drop by drop. You are pouring Cylon blood into her veins. I see the Cylon pipes. We all see them. We all see the Cylon workforce. Where are they going into the far recesses of the ship? When are you inviting the Centurions over to join in all the fun we are having over here? Of course, when you do that, that very moment, this becomes a blended ship – only half Human. And right now I am here to tell you, your people – your people are not ready for that. Listen to me Admiral, I am offering to you the last Human Solution you will ever be presented with.”
The Galactica, as I have mentioned previously, is the physical representation of the integration – or “cybridization” – of Humans and Cylons. Baltar is a foil who illuminates the growing discontent and volatility felt among the Human inhabitants who resent and oppose the integration of both species despite the fact that the human fleet is slowly dying – something the Admiral and Roslin are struggling to come to terms with. Ironically, the “Big Guns” the Admiral gives to Baltar’s followers will not provide a balance of power or preserve order as hoped – but will have the exact opposite effect and become the spark that ignites the very revolution they are trying to prevent. As a result, Humans will be unknowingly pushed toward their true destiny. Humans killing Humans, just as Cylons killed Cylons on the Thirteen Tribe’s Earth. Both species too weak to survive independently and the cycle of destruction grinds on…
Now, consider what the piano player (f.k.a. Dreilide Thrace ???) says to Kara in “Someone to Watch Over Me”:
“Listen, it may feel like Hell, but sometimes lost is where you need to be. Just because you don’t know your direction doesn’t mean you don’t have one.”
This is a CRITICAL statement to understanding what is happening. I think that it not just Kara who is struggling in the darkness of ignorance. Both Cylons and Humans don’t currently know – or won’t accept – their true direction and will take desperate actions to preserve their individual identities. However, those actions will instead have the reverse effect and destroy themselves (and each other) in the process, thus clearing the way for their true combined – or “cybrid” – destiny.
As the revolution rages across the fleet the Admiral is FORCED to call in the Centurions. This has the effect of “throwing gas on the fire” and now the entire fleet collapses into chaos and anarchy. Sounds like the perfect time for Cavil to “jump in” and kick the fleet when it’s down. In a final, valiant effort, the now fully “blended” Galactica gloriously sacrifices herself to defeat Cavil and his all Cylon force. The war is ended, but both the Humans and Cylons are decimated in the process and Galactica becomes the literal representation of how the half Human half Cylon hybridization will save both races. Where do we go from here amidst the ashes…
…this question speaks to the heart of my previous post – TIME. When did the events of BSG happen relative to our own time? Where do we fit into the BSG universe? I think the answer will be that this all happened thousands of years before our present day in Earth’s ancient pre-history.
I’m also not convinced that Baltar is fated to martyrdom. We know that the One True God – or something in the universe – loves Baltar with ALL of his faults and imperfections – and that he has a special destiny for him to follow. Would God then expect – or desire – that Baltar spontaneously sprout a moral conviction that supersedes his all encompassing love of self only to let him be killed? To what end would his death serve God’s purpose? Why let him survive the destruction of the Twelve Colonies only to martyr himself for Humanity’s sake – which God already knew was a lost cause – doomed to failure.
We also know that Baltar and Six are connected to the Opera House and we saw a baby’s crib that we assumed represented Hera’s birth. I guess it would be anticlimactic for Hera to turn out to be nothing more that the representation of a future Human-Cylon hybrid race and it is still highly likely that RDM has reserved a much grander role for her to play in the final “truth”. Hera, as the first “cybrid” is the “first generation of God’s new children” and “the face of the shape of things to come.” Hera is somehow tied to the “Cylon Song” which is also tied to Kara (who has been playing this tune her entire life), the Piano Player and the Opera House. I like idea of the notes as a kind of star chart, but who knows, there are a multitude of possibilities given the number of connections any one of which could be what RDM ultimately chooses.
Nevertheless, I can still see Baltar – true to form and unrepentant in his narcissism – abandoning his followers and his new found cause only to save himself. Baltar escapes destruction with Caprica Six and possibly Hera (or at least benefitting from her help) and they eventually find a habitable planet that they call Earth. Baltar and Caprica become the parents of us all as Adam and Eve.
Baltar as the Father of the entire race of “cybrid” beings on Earth is a destiny befitting someone who enjoyed the personal love of God.
Great theories and speculation all around and I have thoroughly enjoyed reading everyone’s posts.
We’ll learn some more tomorrow night…
March 5th, 2009 at 9:41 pm
Death of the Leading Ladies…
Roslyn, Galactica and Head Six are the real leading ladies of the show…. All Three Must Die. That leaves Hera and Baltar in the Opera House at the end. The Opera House is the colonial symbol for KOBOL (they modelled their own on Caprica). So, the remaining fleets (human and cylons) go to Kobol for the last of the resurrection technology.
They meet up and begin the final battle. But like Armageddon, the battle ends before they fire a shot. Those that nuked Earth (LOK) will show up and seperate the wheat from the chaff. The remaining, HUMAN ONLY, wheat (remember humans are fertile) will begin again on Kobol and thus Everything that has happenned before will happen again.
Those that nuked earth are roughly old BSG (with vipers and Rigel, the braided CIC crew member).
Head Six is a LOK, but a heretic who is executed by the other LOKs who are unaware that she has enlisted Baltar to save Hera. All Head characters are the same LOK.
The only remaining cylon is Hera who escapes under their nose since Baltar vouches that she is his daughter. She writes the Pythia prophesies for her CYLON descendents not yet made.
Starbuck is recognized as the one who lead the fleets back to Kobol for cleansing and receives a hero’s welcome (in a white dress and yah I’ve decided Kara is a LOK like her Dad and not a Cylon, Daniel as Kara’s Dad is the best red herring of the series).
From the stand point of those who want closure, this ends badly for all. And once again, “Have you ever felt you’d been cheated”, Johny Rotten.
March 6th, 2009 at 2:19 am
@Thee_Immortal_One: First off let me just say that even if you are right and it does ends like you say it will then its a great ending. Second, if you feel like you are being cheated then don’t watch the show, go and watch whatever brings pleasure to you and spew your obvious dislike of the story and the show on some other forum. Ever since I found this web site and started reading other comments and making some of my own all I have seen from you is dislike but you keep watching the show anyways and then you keep making your remarks, Now you are a person with their own opinion and own way of looking at the world around you and so I value it but I must call bullshit on you because you are a person in denial, yes i said it, denial. if you don’t like something then you don’t keep doing it period. Thirdly, stop quoting John Lydon so gods damn much, yes we all know you are so cool for quoting someone who for many years acted like a total dick to everyone around him. Again i will say that if you feel like you are being cheated then dont watch BSG and go watch something else
March 6th, 2009 at 2:44 am
Maybe Hera isn’t the first Cybrid….Maybe Kara is the first.
If Daniel was her father…and we know that Daniel died from what Anders is saying in “No Exit”.
And he also says “She was 7″…maybe he’s talking about Kara? Maybe she was 7 years old when Daniel died?
And Kara ended up thinking her father just left her.
March 6th, 2009 at 5:29 am
Hi everyone! Well it seems that everyone is talking about Starbucks return and who she is. One thing to remember is what she said right before she died. “Lee, just let me go…..I’ll be okay, they are waiting for me” This I believe is important because it was replayed at the beginning of season 4 in the scene when Admiral and Lee were in the pilot ready room analyzing the tape from Lee’s Viper gun camera. Well, who was waiting for her and why was she not afraid anymore.
Also, I think some people forget that Kara’s had a major roll in bringing the Cylons and humans together. Also as far as her destiny goes, one question you might ask is why do we believe the baseship hybrids are there to help the humans. In Razor the old male hybrid told Kendra Shaw that Starbuck is the harbinger of death and that they must not follow her. Now, did he say this to truely help the humans or did he say this to try to keep the human off of the right path. Then the hybrid on the rebel base ship told Kara the same thing. So, the question is which side do the hybrids live are they loyal to the cylons, or are they independent spirits of God.
Starbuck is still trying to find her place. This was played out in the last episode when we see her repeating the things she says before the pilots meeting. Has Starbuck fulilled here mission? Does she still have some leading to do?
If there is a funeral then Rosalyn has infact died. Their is no other character that strong to require a funeral with full dress grays. Now this could be the opening for Kara to become the great leader if Rosalyn dies then we can expect the Admiral to loose it completely and then you have Lee Adama as president and Kara Thrace as commander.
March 6th, 2009 at 7:44 am
Well enjoy BSG tonight. Unfortunately we in the UK won’t get it for a while yet so I’ll have to stop reading this forum until mid next week.
Just wanted to add that Boomer is fairly psychologically plausible to me. Shooting Adama was part of a mental collapse stemming from her not realising she was a Cylon. It was the psychological terminus of a genuine struggle which was brought to a head when she was confronted with a host of copies (pretty damn distressing I’d imagine) and then gave in to her “programming”. Thinking of yourself as a machine (with programming) is the best step toward acting like one.
I also think it’s at least possible that stealing Hera was not Cavil’s plot. Well we will find out pretty soon (over your side of the pond a bit sooner), but perhaps Boomer has some other plan for Hera, or perhaps she was improvising a bit so she could get off the battlestar. Hera is a big problem for Cavil really and at this stage it’s not clear that he wants human hybrids at all. So does he plan to kill Hera, hold her to ransom, or has Boomer got some plan of her own? (Also remember Boomer cared for Hera for some time so she may have recognized her and decided to go with her)
It looked like for most of first three series that a Cybrid was what the Cylons were after. ‘The Plan’ that we’ve not heard about for a while but why would Cavil want to follow this plan when he thinks of himself as a machine and has access to perfectly good resurrection technology? Is it just Sadism or something more?
It’s all pretty open at this point I think.
Finally I think that Cylons in the fleet were all broadcasters of visions rather than consciously creating them. So who is behind the broadcasting? At this stage i’m going with the stream itself, or the crazy hybrids who seem to be mainly depersonalised only getting it together for the odd gnomic utterance. The hybrids are plugged into the stream is a sort of Cylon collective memory and which is waking up enough to send out the odd message. Daniel is part of the stream so are other Cylons who have died and not been resurrected. But it’s not fully coherent or pulling in just one direction. Starbuck has been a kind of receiver, as has Laura and – for reasons we don’t yet know – so has Baltar. Why Baltar is in on this will probably be the last bit of the jigsaw.
March 6th, 2009 at 11:05 am
To Tiberius1111:
Baltar isn’t going to start a revolution and his guns isn’t going to spark one. The seeds of discord has already been planted. What Baltar will be doing is counter revolution.
The OTGod didn’t allow Baltar to die because his death before that point would be pointless. Baltar’s destiny is give his life, to inspire others (both humans and Cylons) to accept the union of the two races.
That said, Rysln is going to live. She is NOT the dying leader. She is a literature mechanic called the Red Herring. The fact that she has red hair is just that much more obvious.
Baltar is the dying leader (though dying in this case is a metaphor for transformation and redemption). But he will literally die.
March 6th, 2009 at 1:06 pm
I know this isn’t really related to the episode… But I happened to find this today while looking for the piano score of All Along the Watchtower (because let`s face it, it was gorgeous).
Bear McCreary playing the theme from Caprica: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CguEY9e2SqQ
It sounds… wow… Beautiful.
March 6th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
These are the most interesting comments so far to me.
tiberius1111- In a final, valiant effort, the now fully “blended” Galactica gloriously sacrifices herself to defeat Cavil and his all Cylon force. The war is ended, but both the Humans and Cylons are decimated in the process and Galactica becomes the literal representation of how the half Human half Cylon hybridization will save both races.
tres cool. I love parallels – they add so much richness.
thueth – It’s at least possible that stealing Hera was not Cavil’s plot. Perhaps Boomer has some other plan for Hera, or perhaps she was improvising a bit so she could get off the battlestar. Hera is a big problem for Cavil really and at this stage it’s not clear that he wants human hybrids at all. So does he plan to kill Hera, hold her to ransom, or has Boomer got some plan of her own?
never thought that Boomer could be flying solo, but it’s certainly possible – VERY INTERESTING! She may play both sides?….
March 6th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
Thanks Tootie – You’ve encouraged me to extend the thought experiment.
Of course Cavil could be directing Boomer or even have reprogrammed her, but I think its a more interesting scenario if she’s at least in part doing her own thing. This is what BSG is about, not really about destiny but in taking agency and screwing destiny (at least that’s what I think it’s about).
At a plot level though it was an extraordinarily risky mission for Boomer to undertake. Misleading Ellen, going off in search of the the Battlestar, and then what? Maybe she’ll be taken prisoner, or even killed if not by the Colonials, then by the other Cylons. And then how is she going to get Hera and escape? Can she rely on the chief? On Hera going with her? And then of course she’s mortal now, so if anything goes wrong … unless of course resurrection technology is not completely bust as we’ve been led to believe.
Any plan involving snatching Hera then look like it would have to be pretty crazy unless something is really orchestrating things.
It makes a lot of sense in terms of Boomer’s character. First she allies herself with Cavil because he seems rational and then she realizes he’s a sort of crazed sadist, and then she escapes with Ellen, and finds herself a prisoner, and then finds the chief still loves her, and suddenly she wants to live again as there’s something worth living for and she sees a way to escape and grabs her chance.
I think it could be another misdirection By the writers, insinuating that Boomer came to steal Hera. Maybe Boomer has an unexpected role to play yet and not as villain. I think she works better as tragic character.
Now that really is me until the next episode. Have fun stateside!
March 6th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
Hi, Tootie. Thanks so much for the kudos!
Hi, Damokingh. I think I am still being misinterpreted regarding the revolution and I apologize for not being more clear. It has already been well established that there is widespread discontent across the fleet. Famine and disease (Mellorak) are rampant and there is only one tube of “Felgercarb” brand toothpaste left in the BSG universe. Underscoring that point, Camp Oil Slick (a.k.a. Dogsville) is a microcosm of life in the fleet and has become the viewers’ window into the increasingly desperate challenges and struggles suffered by all of Humanity. Given the already dire conditions faced by the people, why has the revolution NOT already started? The answer is simple. There is a disparity in power between the different factions within the fleet. For example, Baltar’s group does not have the means to challenge the gangs with “bigger guns” and therefore is forced to capitulate without offering any resistance.
This sets up a classic arms race. Baltar’s group goes from no guns, to small handguns, to – thanks to Baltar’s intervention – Big (military) Guns. This is not a “counter revolution”, because the revolution has not yet started (IMHO). However, the next time the gang comes back to take the food supplies they will be confronted with force sufficient enough to enable Baltar’s group to deny their demands. Then, the very first person – on either side – who flinches and pulls their trigger will let loose the “shot heard ‘round the fleet” and the REVOLUTION will begin in earnest. That first shot will be the literal spark that ignites the revolution. My point, therefore, is that the “Big Guns” Baltar brings to help the people keep their food supplies safe will ultimately start the revolution that will be equally destructive to everyone. Certainly Baltar and his “Big Guns” will fight on the side of order in support of the legitimate government, however, war is an indiscriminate killer and all sides – including noncombatants – will suffer casualties.
I suspect, given the conspicuous lack of Colonial Marines in Dogsville, that Admiral Adama does not have sufficient military force to suppress the fighting once the real shooting revolution (war) begins – especially if the violence spreads to other ships in the fleet. Where else can the Admiral turn except to his rebel Cylon allies and their Centurions to restore order to the fleet? This will further escalate the fighting and complete Galactica’s total “cybridization” as foreshadowed by Baltar.
As far as the fate of Baltar is concerned, the Scrolls of Pythia state that the “dying leader” suffered from a “wasting illness” – not simply that (s)he gets killed. For that reason, it is unlikely (though not impossible) that Baltar will emerge as the prophetic dying leader. I do, however, very much like the possibility of Baltar becoming a symbolic figure representing transformation and redemption.
Baltar could emerge as the literary equivalent of Sydney Carton from Dickens’ “A Tale of Two Cities”. It is interesting to note that the theme of RESURRECTION runs throughout this novel which is set against the brutal and savage backdrop of the French Revolution. At the end of the novel, Sydney Carton’s martyrdom atones for all of his past transgressions. As Carton is led to the guillotine, he envisions a beautiful, idyllic Paris “rising from the abyss” and sees “the evil of this time and of the previous time of which this is the natural birth, gradually making expiation for itself and wearing out.” Carton transforms himself into a Christ-like figure – a selfless martyr – whose death enables the happiness of his beloved and ensures his own immortality – just as the apocalyptic violence of revolution sows the seeds for a new society’s birth.
Hmmm, I like it – but will this be the fate that RDM will choose for Baltar? Only time – and the remaining episodes – will tell.
You might want to consider casting Boomer in the role of Sydney Carton. She could also end up sacrificing herself as a final act of redemption. A lot of people out there really HATE Boomer right now – especially since many were hoping that she would redeem herself and begin again with Tyrol. It would be dramatic that the “traitor” is the one who becomes the unlikely “savior”. Kidnapping Hera has also gained Boomer a significant position of trust with Cavil which she could later exploit and defeat him – perhaps even saving Hera in the process. This would then leave Baltar for another fate – or RDM could just start passing out the redemption cards and everyone gets saved in the end.
As for Roslyn, who knows what will happen to her. To me, the only really interesting thread left in her character is the connection between her and Hera. It must be tied to her shared visions with Caprica Six at the Opera House which we all know will play a big part in the final truth. But again, RDM has left himself a lot of wiggle room and has many different options…
One last thing – I haven’t given much thought to the Head Characters/Head Ghosts and their origins, but Baltar seems to be the Human with the longest and deepest connection to them. That connection could ultimately prove to be a very significant piece of the truth. Maybe the “wasting illness” in the Pythian prophecy is “narcissism” and it’s Baltar’s “conscience/morality” that has been dying. When I think about the episode “The Hub”, Baltar’s initial confession to Roslyn about his role in the destruction of the Twelve Colonies caused her to tear his bandages off so he would bleed out and die (his sins = his death). Then the prophet Elosha came to Roslyn in a vision and convinced her to save Baltar. Could this have been a literal foreshadowing of his transformation? Maybe. This was also the episode where Baltar started to preach to a Centurion about hierarchy and religion, asserting that it is loved by God as well. This may prove to be an important connection in the coming battle. That Baltar has been “saved” for a greater purpose is evident – what that purpose will be is as yet unknown.
I’m just glad today is Friday…
As always, thanks for your feedback, and your kind response.
March 6th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
Hey guys I was floored by this episode had to watch it a few times to get the full effect. Heres how it goes, Hera and Starbuck are linked through some heavenly cosmic thread. I think Hera’s drawing, her stars/ the song is a map to their new home. The convo between Hera and Starbuck goes something like this:
Starbuck enters. Hera is drawing she counts her dots, their order and position are important to her.
Starbuck
Hey Hera, whacha drawing? Stars?
Hera nods
Starbuck (cont’d)
They’re very good stars
Hera
Thank you
Starbuck goes off to do her thing with Helo about her stuff. When they’re done she turns to Hera who hands her the picture to Starbuck VIRTICALY.
— later starbuck takes the drawing out and sets it out horazontaly as music notes.
I’m no psychiatrist but from what I know, which is very little kids tend usualy to make their drawings horizantily, Hera’s was vertical – something difrent. She also was paying very close attention to the spacing distance and coloring of the stars, she was plotting out the road ahead, a road that will lead to the new home of Hu-lon-ity (human + cylon). The Tighs did say Hera was plugged into something greater, and we know starbuck aint your averige viper jock any more.
I still have no idea what kara is but the hybrid said she was the harbinger of death and that she will lead them all to their end. I believe she fuffiled the first part of her role twice over, first when she mysterisaly crashed on earth posably causing its destruction, and the secont time when she lead the destruction of the cylon resurrection hub, in essence she brought death to the cylons (twice actually). She was connected to Aurora, goddess of the dawn at the end of the third season, the dawn comes before the sun and the chariot of the son, she leads Heleos and Apollo across the sky. Starbuck will “lead them all to their end,” she will bring them to the end of their jurny. She will bring them to their new home.
Yes its true Laura Roslin has died. It was destined from the start. It has finaly become her time. She has fulfilled her purpose. She has traveled the path layed out to her by the god(s) may they see her safely over the River Sticks to the Fields of Elecia. “and the dieing leader will lead the children of the 13 to the home of the 13th,” Laura did just that. She might have also been sharged with protecting Hera at one point, but then again maybe not. We see her pain as Hera is being taken away by Boomer, it is heart renching, it is like she feels it happening she feels hera and her life slipping away from her and she cant do any thing about it. one may bring up the question “where is Caprica Six? Isn’t she saposed to be protecting Hera?” I believe she has already done that fulfilled that part of her prophesy during the muteny. When she carries Hera out of the brig she holds her just like she did when she was going into the theatre of the opera house. The question that still remains though is what actually is the secret of the opera house?
Hera’s drawing, the song, is a map to a new home where humans and cylons will come to geather in piece and breed a new race of Hu-lons (human+cylon).
- so say we all
March 6th, 2009 at 9:13 pm
Boomer completely surprised me. She SOOO worked Tyrol over… again. Which tells me if I were Tyrol, I would have been frakked, too. So much for my good judgement.
I was talking with a friend and she was saying the Eights generally cannot be trusted, but I disagree. Athena and Tigh are completely right: choose who you are and Be That. The rest of the cylons have yet to really figure it out, even the “good” ones. They have this excuse called being a Cylon, a “machine”, which absolves them all of their responsibility for their actions. They have no barometer of “good” versus “evil” to judge themselves by. Well, there is this “One True God” thing, but I don’t see it really altering their behavior toward compassion any, unless they are all just a bunch of racists, humans being so expendable and all. No, I think because they are “machines” and “not human”, they are rudderless, and each one individually has to choose what they are and follow it up with consistency of action. That’s what gives them their personhood.
I loved the Starbuck story. It looks like those Kara’s-father-is-a-cylon folks are right. If that’s the case, though, why is Hera so ultra-important if Kara is already a “cybrid”? Wouldn’t Kara have the same special attributes? If that’s so, now both the fleet and the Cavil cylons have the same resource at hand. Is it just now a “race to the finish”?
I hope they jack Anders into the Hybrid chamber. He’s still a part of the story (reinforced by his most recent higher brain activity). Can’t wait to see how the Five come together!
Oh! The “He and She” of the hybrid prophecy from Razor… I’m thinking Kara and Daniel. Why does it have to be a sexual pairing? Although there seem to be many “He”s and “She”s: Tigh/Ellen, Tyrol/Boomer, Anders/Kara. Perhaps “He” and “She” are archetypal and metaphorical, meaning it’s a category of S/He’s and not just a specific couple, a convergence of many S/He’s coming together toward the conclusion. Just a thought…
Gotta say this one was lightyears ahead of Deadlock (”Dead On Arrival?”) which seemed like a giant step backwards for everyone, especially Ellen, and was just a placeholder until the story started again. For being so close to the end, it was a colossal waste of an ep, don’ch’a think? Anyway… onward!
March 7th, 2009 at 12:48 am
Can I just take a minte to be a nerd, and a pianist, and say that what Kara played is NOT 13 notes to correspond to Hera’s 13 ’stars’.
To make 13 notes you play:
C# | C# | C# D E A G# E A G# E D C# (which is only the final round)
Kara doesn’t play the second C#, she holds the first note for a 4-count to make it only 12 notes. (Picky, yes I know) But if they’re going to show 13 stars to mean 13 notes…put the second C# in!
Sulks and waits for BSG. Gotsa wait til tomorrow before I can watch…horribly jealous.
March 7th, 2009 at 11:10 am
Are we SURE that was really Earth?
Hey all, my first post here, and I love BSGcast, Matt + Nat, awesome work.
If I recall correctly, never was there a caption while Adama or Roslin or Tigh was on “Earth” that actually confirmed their location from the factual point of view of the producers, such as when Helo was on “CYLON-OCCUPIED CAPRICA.”
Nor did we see the fleet in orbit with an Earth continent distinguishable below. I never saw the Earth’s Moon, nor Jupiter, Mars, or anything that made the planet they were circling look definitively like the real Earth. Yet we know Starbuck has been, at least in her memory and in her photos, to Earth (even the trinary star system she mentioned must have been Alpha Centauri). Her dead body on the nuked planet we saw does not confirm that this is Earth — after she left Earth, she easily could have landed on this nuked planet.
This reminds of when fans were ready for the movie “Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan” to come out in theaters, but many people heard before it premiered the rumor that “Spock dies.” To throw off those fans, Spock fake-dies in the training simulation in the beginning. Only to _actually_ die at the very end. A brilliant piece of disception.
I think RDM & Co. are doing the same thing here: I think we are yet to reach Earth. My theory is that THAT will be part of the Endgame.
March 7th, 2009 at 11:13 am
Just dropped in to say:
HOLY FRAK fan of the week. Thanks Matt and Nat!
-Sam
P.S. Oh, and the episode was pretty amazing too. Definitely one of my favourites so far – and it more than made up for Deadlock.
March 7th, 2009 at 10:21 pm
“Kevanos Says:
February 28th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
Did anyone else notice that the song that Starbuck’s father was playing just before she accused him of stealing it from another song was the begining of the original theatrical version of Battlestar Galactica? Saga of a Star World”
Yes. That was frakkin cool. Nice homage to the original series.
I like when he said he used that opening theme as a touchstone for inspiration.
March 8th, 2009 at 11:47 am
I have been a huge fan of this show but as of late, I am growing bored of the endless depression, sorrow, sadness, and pity fest. It is as though Ronald Moore has nothing better to do than see how deep the sorrow can go and fans can still watch. I want deep and interesting but fun and enjoyable. This show has turned into depression and boredom. I feel like I need an anti-depressant just before each episode just to make it through. I watch now just to satisfy my curiosity and nothing more. Unlike Star Trek episodes which I can watch over-and-over again, I will not be watching this depressing show again once it’s over in a few weeks. Ronald has managed to take science-fiction to the 90210 zip of drama, depression, and bickering. I know from watching Star Trek episodes that he wrote that he has a darker and depressing side to his personality and writing, but this is just too much for me. I will be so HAPPY when this show is over!
March 9th, 2009 at 9:34 pm
This has happened before. It will happen again. Kira is a product of resurrection from an earlier Cylon cycle. Resurrection technology was not invented by the final five. They recreated it. The most recent resurrection technology is a slightly different from the earlier version. We already have clues that resurrection facility still exists somewhere in the earth area. It works on Kira models, not more recent ones. My guess is that Baltar is the toasters’ one true god. He is the greatest whiz brain on Caprica. He very likely is the one being who started the cycle and has been around all along. His personality flaws were responsible for the destructive cycle of his creations. It follows that he created the original ressurection technology to keep himself from ever dying. Could even be that he was initially a human that got downloaded into a machine engram. This also hearkens back to the Baltar of the original series, a “human” who lorded over the toasters. The Lords of Cobol – I agree with others who suggest that they were “final-five” type cylons from an earlier cycle.
March 20th, 2009 at 5:00 pm
maybe it was said before… but i just noticed that the record cover for dredlide thrace, said live: at the opera house…. wonder if they threw that in to say he knows the secret of the opera house. just a thought. cant wait for tonight!
January 3rd, 2010 at 9:14 am
Here’s wishing you a very happy and prosperous new year !
February 12th, 2010 at 1:32 am
Dang dude you have got some odd bugs on your page that says parse error unexpected T String in line 14
April 26th, 2010 at 2:21 pm
Wow! what an thought ! What a notion !! Stunning .. Wonderful …