BSGcast 4.21 – “Daybreak Part 1″
We were in Austin for South by Southwest and got to watch Part 1 of Daybreak at the Alamo Drafthouse! We managed to shoot in the lobby of the Hilton across from SXSW and got some great theories from fans like us after this doozy of an episode! It was simultaneously esoteric and tense and after this one, Daybreak Part 2 is shaping up to be one hell of knock-down drag-out battle from front to back!
March 13th, 2009 at 2:16 am
i really hope they at least come out with what starbuck is in this episode… i’ve been confused about her for the last 2 and a half seasons… frack it, the whole show i’ve wondered about her and that destiny of hers… maybe the land on a planet and she starts a cover band? heres hoping
March 13th, 2009 at 3:27 am
It all depends what the endgame is, as to whether Starbuck gets revealed in this episode or the finale. At this point, I’m somewhere north of 99.999999% sure that Daniel was her father and she’s a Cybrid. Going through all the previous episodes (again) and currently in mid to late season 3, I’m thinking that Baltar may get the final reveal. I’m guessing that Kara’s drifter/musician father is Baltar’s as well and we get a Luke and Leia moment towards the end.
I’m expecting/hoping for Boomer’s redemption in this episode. From how sad she was at turning Hera over to Cavil, I’d like to see her re-kidnap her and bring her back to Athena with the location of Cavil’s base/colony to redeem herself to the fleet. The other thing I’d like to see, and this is a bit random, is the Cylon models we haven’t seen in awhile. Seems like quite awhile since we’ve seen a 4 or a 5…
What I don’t know, or really have a coherent guess on, is what the endgame is. Where do they all end up? A giant battle is coming, but what then?
March 13th, 2009 at 3:51 am
@ Bill:
I thought about Kara & Gaius being related too but, eww that would be gross given they had sex. But then again that didn’t stop Cavil from doing it with his mother. Incest dosen’t seem to be a problem for the cylons lol.
But yeah I think there’s a connection between them, they may not be blood relatives, but they seems to have gone through some of the same stuff, like they both died!. Okay we don’t know for sure about Baltar, but I’m convinced he died on Caprica. Both times, we (the viewers) have seen their apparent death (While watching the mini series, I was sure Baltar had been blown off and was done for) only to see them come later well alive & ready to frak anything that moves lol
March 13th, 2009 at 8:42 am
I bet we’ll see at least one main characters die off today. RDM likes to up the stakes to give the sense of real danger. I bet several secondary characters are gonners too.
In one of the promos for daybreak head six tells Gaius that this is the end of humanity and you will be its author. I wonder if she means that he will be/or already is the cause of the end of humanity because of his actions or more literally he will be an author and go on to record this what happened. He will be the new Pithia that the next cycle will read to get their information about this Exodus. The Book of Gaius if you will. I’ve always thought at the end of the series someone will end up being the the new Pythia and will lie about what really happened this cycle for the same reason that the original writer of Pithea lied about what happened on Kobal. I suspect it may be for the reason Deana talked about on New Caprica, so that future generations will not seek revenge for what had happened and everyone can go their separate ways (or be together in relative peace). Or maybe his role is to keep the cycle going. I still would like to know what the real story of Kobal was that head six eluded to in Fragged – maybe we’ll get some backstory since we will be in the same part of the cycle as the beginning of Pythia.
After the blast?
March 13th, 2009 at 9:26 am
I sure hope this episode is good, because I have this very generic vibe about the direction this show is going in the finale. Not to be the raging pessimist here, but there is something very “Razor” like about it all. Hopefully, the final three hours are not predictable like that.
March 13th, 2009 at 9:47 am
I wouldn’t put it past the BSG writers to do something as crazy as Baltar and Kara as brother and sister, but there’s some childhood stories they’re going to need to work out – it’d be odd, but they’ve done it before.
A Tribute to Galactica!
[To be sung to the tune of Viva l'Amour]
A friend on the left and a gun on your hip Viva Galactica!
Adama will soon say “Go down with the ship” Viva Galactica!
Viva la Viva la Viva L’Amour!
Viva la Viva la Viva L’Amour!
So say we all! So say we all! Viva Galactica!
Now Tigh needs a drink as the sh*t hits the fan. Viva Galactica!
Baltar’s got religion, the women are grand Viva Galactica!
Now grab your gun as you bring in the cat Viva Galactica!
Starbuck and Apollo in vipers at last. Viva Galactica!
Athena is mad Karl did her sister Viva Galactica!
Why does this always end in disaster? Viva Galactica!
Viva la Viva la Viva L’Amour!
Viva la Viva la Viva L’Amour!
So say we all! So say we all! Viva Galactica!
Now All along the watchtower we stand; Viva Galactica!
Confusion and riders – Let’s get out of here! Viva Galactica!
There’s a hole in the bucket oh dear Elisa Viva Galactica!
Let’s use Cylon duct-tape as we kick it o’re Viva Galactica!
Now find us a home so this cycle can end! Viva Galactica!
Shout so say we all as the fat lady stands: Viva Galactica!
Viva la Viva la Viva L’Amour!
Viva la Viva la Viva L’Amour!
So say we all! So say we all! Viva Galactica!
Viva la Viva la Viva L’Amour!
Viva la Viva la Viva L’Amour!
So say we all! So say we all! Viva Galactica!
VIVA GALACTICA!!!
March 13th, 2009 at 9:51 am
@DarthMoronBack: RAZOR was probably the BEST Episode of the ENTIRE SERIES.
Daybreak part 1 is probably just set-up for the Daybreak part 2, so don’t expect any “explody-things” or any important explanations of anything” (which we would NEVER want anyway).
And Daybreak part 2 hour 1 will probably only be “set-up” for hour 2, so don’t expect anything of importance to be answered or shown (which of course would be completely gauche if they actually did reveal anything).
Daybreak part 2 hour 2 will feel EXACTLY like the Sopranos Series finale. In fact, you’ll probably want to play “Don’t Stop Believing” in the background to get in the mood for the NON-ENDING.
It’s perfectly OK for an Executive Producer to raise a bunch of tantalizing IMPORTANT PLOT QUESTIONS during the course of a Sci-Fi series AND THEN NOT ANSWER THE MAJORITY OF THE IMPORTANT ONES. I mean with him being and “artist” and all.
March 13th, 2009 at 9:59 am
PS: I challenge others to add to the song – bring on all the verses you can, and maybe we can put together a ‘best of’ tribute to Galactica!
March 13th, 2009 at 10:02 am
@ CJ: You’ve made your point. Now kindly check out of this forum so those of us who still like the show don’t need to read your ripping on it. Its just common courtesy – you’re not bitter with us, you’re bitter with RDM. So throw hate mail at him, not at us – he’s who you’re mad with anyways.
March 13th, 2009 at 11:03 am
CJ i agree to a point… just like in season 3 the 2nd to the last episode had a lot of set up for the next. however RDM is smart enough to think the ending through and will probably have something up his sleeve that will blow our minds.
as for baltar and starbuck being related? i hope not. not because they have had sex (although that is a big reason) but it would just be bad retcon. baltar grew up on a farm (well so he says) and i dont see a artsy kinda guy like starbuck dad starting a farm and saying “frack this i’m going to play the piano”
it just does not quite make sense.
although i have been wrong in the past
March 13th, 2009 at 11:45 am
Oh, I’m so in denial. I can’t be almost over. It can’t! *Waaaahhhhh*
I’ll be the one whimpering in the corner.
March 13th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
@saucywench
We still have “the plan” to look forward to. It’ll be like your significant other breaking up with you but you know you will still get break up sex later on. It’s over but it’s a gradual over. Scifi knows they need to gradually ween us addicts off BSG and give us time to find other things to do to fill the empty void left by BSG – like spend time with the family or do work while at work instead of looking a BSGcast.
Cj – don’t worry I believe there will be explosions in part 1. A commercial for Daybreak mentions “a blast”
March 13th, 2009 at 1:39 pm
CJ: I can’t take anything you say seriously when you think “Razor” was the best anything. I think even The Woman King was less cheesy. Please… except for maybe 20 minutes of “Razor,” it was a really campy effort.
March 13th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
I’m not watching tonight. I’m waiting for next week, and watch the final three hours in one sitting
Not that you care, of course.
March 13th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
I like “Don’t Stop Believing”
March 13th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
I don’t expect much to be answered in this episode, nor do I want much to be. I just want the characters to begin to move in their final directions. I like set-up. I like the subtle changes in feel, texture, and composition that have occurred the past few episodes. This is the end. Humanities final chapter is about to be written. I’m just thankful I’m along for the ride.
And guys, even though I don’t like all the theories posted here, (especially anything that tries waaaay too hard,) please don’t rag on each other. I have found this to be one of the few polite forums on the web, so don’t ruin it.
March 13th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
Is that really you Steve Perry?
CJimison
March 13th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
Nah just a psyche out….or is it?
March 13th, 2009 at 7:20 pm
I’m sorry…did CJ say something? Oh I didn’t think so…
March 13th, 2009 at 7:57 pm
I have not seen a question to this or an answer. Why did the colonies need a military? It seems that they are the only beings in the universe, so who or what were they protecting themselves from? Before the war with the cylons started?
March 13th, 2009 at 8:16 pm
Oh Sherrie, I mean Steve Perry, I hope it is you. Happy belated Birthday BTW.
CJimison
March 13th, 2009 at 8:39 pm
@AsgardBlack
They were fighting themselves. True we never really got told much as far as colonial history, but we have been given enough hints to give a general overview. Basically the colonies didn’t get along very well before the cylons were built. Much like the 300+ nations here on our lovely planet don’t get along. And they probably went to war a couple times. Then the cylons were created and the colonials thought it a good idea to stop fighting the wars with other people, and use robots instead. Then circa 50 years before the events in the miniseries the cylons rose against their masters and went to war. Or at least we assume it was 50 because the battlestars are 50 years old and were built specifically to fight the cylons.
Remember how in the mini Doral talked about how they were “so frightened by our enemies we literally looked backward for protection. Then 10 years later the armistice was declared and the colonies went back t fighting each other. Except now they were doing it under one banner. Because they joined forces to fight a common enemy. We know they went back to fighting each other because of little mentions of certain instances like the teacher strike in “Epiphanies’ and the “incident” that Roslin spoke of in “Water” that Adar thinks was a mistake. Oh and the mention in “Hero” about the Torons being a… well bad colony. So much so that a cover story for the black ops mission the Valkrie did was that the Torons were mining too close to the armistice line and refused to back off and te military had to step in. So yeah the military was kinda needed. The colonials just could never get along….even now with less than 30,000 left they still fight each other. Sad….
March 13th, 2009 at 8:52 pm
ok thanks, I did not pick that up, but it make sense.
March 13th, 2009 at 9:24 pm
HOLY FRAK!!! I know the ep has just started, nut man it’s nuts so far! I’m so confused! What is Roslin doing in that fountain?!?!?! Gah!!! Oh look we’re back in present time….
Uh I think this is a good sign the ep is only going to get more nuts!
March 13th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
Did anyone else hear anders sasy “slipped the surly bonds of earth” thats taken from Reagans speech after the challenger disaster.
The crew of the space shuttle Challenger honored us by the manner in which they lived their lives. We will never forget them, nor the last time we saw them, this morning, as they prepared for their journey and waved good-bye and “slipped the surly bonds of earth” to “touch the face of God.”
Also loved the beginning with gauis and six in the limo.
March 13th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
Wow this episode flew by! It seemed like an hour was 15 minutes! Baltar is the biggest fraking pussy, this man had better redeem himself after all the things I just witbessed about him in this episode.
Next week is gonna be intense, too bad its the final show ever.
March 13th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
Is the speech perhaps a clue as to the fate of evreyone?
March 13th, 2009 at 10:07 pm
I don’t know what to think of the episode. But the flashbacks kind of showed how the series Caprica will be.
March 13th, 2009 at 10:09 pm
I thought the episode was moving way too slow. Anyway here’s the promo for the series finale.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxfwgJN9O7Q
March 13th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
The black hole is may also prove my time travel theroy. Earth is indeed our earth in the future but somehow later they will travel back in time and be the forefathers of the egyptians, greeks, mayans, toltects, etc. Somehow the black hole messes with there jumps and they go back thousands of years into the past and are the forefathers of all those civilizations. Or its a portal to hell.
March 13th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
yeah “Brian D.” plus those cgi buildings for Caprica aren’t going to go to waste. They are radically different than the once we used to seeing.
March 13th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
Holy backstory Batman! I felt there was more commercial than BSG!
Damn. That episode was great. I will be so immensely sad when this is all over.
March 13th, 2009 at 10:12 pm
M+N you dont have to sign me up to win anything. But you could mention my reagan speech finding.
March 13th, 2009 at 10:14 pm
In the speech, Reagan was actually referencing a poem, written by John Magee, a fighter pilot during WWII. He was KIA, but his poem lived on.:
High Flight
Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
Sunward I’ve climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
Of sun-split clouds, — and done a hundred things
You have not dreamed of — wheeled and soared and swung
High in the sunlit silence. Hov’ring there,
I’ve chased the shouting wind along, and flung
My eager craft through footless halls of air. . . .
Up, up the long, delirious burning blue
I’ve topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace
Where never lark, or ever eagle flew —
And, while with silent, lifting mind I’ve trod
The high untrespassed sanctity of space,
Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.
So that’s where it’s from. Signigicance in touching the face of god? Maybe.
March 13th, 2009 at 10:14 pm
centurion005, you could be right because RDM did came from the world of Star Trek so time travel is a required element like the new Trek movie coming out soon in May. I came upon some massive spoilers accidently and hopefully they’re fakes but after seeing tonight’s episode it could be true especially the ending. I hope the series finale makes up for the three or four slow episodes of nothing that we’ve been seeing since the mutiny episodes.
March 13th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
The crew of the space shuttle Challenger honored us by the manner in which they lived their lives. We will never forget them, nor the last time we saw them, this morning, as they prepared for their journey and waved good-bye and “slipped the surly bonds of Earth” to “touch the face of God.”
Sorry for posting this twice. But that actualy summarizes the volunteer recruitment scene.
“honored us by the manner in which they lived their lives”
“We will never forget them, nor the last time we saw them, as they prepared for their journey and waved good-bye”
“slipped the surly bonds of Earth”(-ANDERS) to “touch the face of God.” which means theyll all die.
March 13th, 2009 at 10:28 pm
Did you guys just see what was happening?
That was the split between Humanity and Cylons
Like the Cylons left the colonies of Kobol.
The ones that are leaving the Fleet will be stuck without reproduction. And they have a lot of Cylons with them. Now they are the Cylons.
The rest of the fleet will become Humanity.
Its happening again.
Oh and I think Roselin is Hera from the last cycle. Which is why Hera’s blood cured her for a while.
That is why Hera is the future of the Cylon race.
After the battle. The remaining forces will colonize the New Earth. And rely on Cylons to breed into or resurrect.
Some of Cavil’s forces will survive, perhaps thousands of years from now to destroy the new Earth, along with themselves.
New FF. Among Adama’s Earthlings they get a warning about the return of the Cylons they battled thousands of years before, so they prepare. Five of them though, decide to prepare the poeple to the “New Colonies” about what was going to happen… you know the rest.
[Royal Stamp of Malik]
March 13th, 2009 at 10:31 pm
Nothing ends here; our hopes and our journeys continue. Another line from the challenger speech.
Read the whole thing here.
http://www.reaganlibrary.com/reagan/speeches/challenger.asp
March 13th, 2009 at 10:31 pm
In this episode, it was established that the first name of Gaius Baltar’s father is Julius. The full name of everybody’s favorite consul of the Senate and the People of Rome was Gaius Julius Caesar. Now lets compare the name Baltar to the name Caesar. Both names have 6 letters, both have two A’s and one R. The letter “B” in Baltar is one letter removed from the letter “C” in Caesar. The letter “T” in Baltar is one letter removed from the letter “S” in Caesar. That makes two. In Latin, the number 2 is expressed as II (or ii). Now take the letter “B” in Baltar and replace it with “C” and take the letter “T” and replace it with an “S”. Finally, take “II” (or ii), turn it on its side and add it to the “L”: that changes the letter “L” to an “E”. Once it is done, the name Baltar becomes Caesar. It probably doesn’t mean anything. It just proves that RDM loves that frak with our minds!
March 13th, 2009 at 10:32 pm
@Goku is Cylon, well thank you very much Nostradamus but I like to see it for myself on how the series finale comes together. I’ve been reading alot of crazy stuff lately from people who know people that worked on the show.
March 13th, 2009 at 10:33 pm
Once again another point for my time travel theroy!
March 13th, 2009 at 10:34 pm
the point goes to Bacchus just fyi.
March 13th, 2009 at 10:36 pm
Is it a coincidence that the first part of the last episode is today which is Friday The 13th? A reference to the 13th tribe?
March 13th, 2009 at 10:38 pm
Excellent episode.
March 13th, 2009 at 10:39 pm
GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
Did anyone else do that when “to be continued” popped on the screen? Man that episode flew by. Was that really an hour? Didn’t feel like it….
Man that opening shot on Caprica was beautiful!!! At first I was all “What planet is that? Earth? One of the colonies? What the frak look at those buildings! Where are we? Oh that’s Caprica City?! Wow looks different from what I recall….”
Seriously the building architecture was pretty different from what I remember the last time we saw it. I guess it was a different part of the city we’ve never seen before? Though Caprica looked a lot more Earth-like than it use too. It was very similar to our modern western civilization here on our fair planet.
Still I did get a kick out of all the brief scenes on Caprica. The druken Lee chasing a bird was my favorite!
Everyone seemed so happy back then. Though I’m wondering what that brief scene with Adama was all about. It was obviously pre-Valkrie incident, though he didn’t seem happy about it…
The very domestic Kara scene with Zak and Lee was a big time shipper moment! That look when Lee saw her the first time and the whole “girlfriend stealer” thing. haha I was laughing through the whole scene. If they only knew…
The Baltar/Six scenes were awesome. Especially the ones with his dad. Such a character moment. He’s so like his dad…more than he knows. And Six putting his dad in that home and making him happy…so sweet!
Roslin losing her family. Man talk about major suckage. Any chance we know the drunk driver? Just curious. Was it someone we know? Someone in the fleet now? That would be interesting. It probably wasn’t the case but I like speculation. And that fountain scene! OMG such a moving moment! Though funny as well cause everyone’s watching this crazy lady. lol
Oh and the Anders scene! Man, wow! All that talk about math and physics! Clues to his true cylon personality maybe? Was he the mathematician/physicist in the group (FF)?
Now that whiney specialist is starting to get on my nerves. Is there anything that doesn’t bother him?
That cylon colony, looks very weird on the outside. Oh and Simon has that look, like he doesn’t want to do what he’s about to do. Will that model change his mind about the whole “do-what-One-says”. And what of the 5s? Will they regret everything that’s happened? Will they join the lets-save-the-cybrid side of the war?
Now anyone else think that Baltar was gonna go to the other side of that line and join the mission. Doing a truly selfless act. It really looked like he was gonna do it for a second there. Oh well…
Lookin forward to next week!!! I really can’t wait!!!!!!! No really I can’t! Is it next week now? No? How bout now?
March 13th, 2009 at 11:32 pm
Intro was amazing and threw me off. But what is the significance of the flashbacks – it did not shed any light on current events. Isn’t this backstory what “The Plan” is supposed to be about? It may be that part II is supposed to be seen together and will make more sense after seeing the entire “episode” When I saw Lee at Kara’s door my first thought was that this was an alternate universe where everyone was still alive and Lee was going on a date with Kara. The alternate universes would have explained why there is more than one kara but would have been a lame idea to the overall story.
I totally wanted Baltar to cross the line and say to Lee that this shows he can do a selfless act. Come on, he was thinking about it, Caprica looked all doe eyed at him – what was he waiting for?
Seeing an episode on the big screen in HD at the Alamo Drafthouse here in Houston was awesome. I wish I could have watched the entire series this way.
March 13th, 2009 at 11:54 pm
I LOVED THE FLASHBACKS! It makes me wonder why we hadn’t seen more of these. I’m not saying I want BSG to go all “LOST” on us, but some flashbacks throughout the seasons would have really helped to develop the characters deeper, and allow the plot to be stretched enough to where standalones like ‘The Woman King’ and ‘Black Market’ could be eliminated, thus resulting in a stronger show.
I know they’ve done a few flashbacks, and I know its a little late to talk about what I ‘wish they had done’… but nevertheless.. I’m a big fan of the flashbacks and the insight they provide.
March 14th, 2009 at 12:02 am
Man I wish I had gone to the Alamo Drafthouse. I was off too…
I would go for the finale but I have plans that night. A friends 21st bday is a little more important than the BSG series finale. But only a little. 
March 14th, 2009 at 12:40 am
On Caprica, Adama was being asked to board Battlestar Galactica for Galactica’s retirement.
CJimison
March 14th, 2009 at 12:59 am
Jonathan – I agree with you about flashbacks, it’s a good “wish they would have” Having some flashbacks would have been a great addition to season 4 and opened up the series so we’re not always stuck in the confines of a ship in space. Plus you get a great B-story out of it. Having Helo stuck on Caprica did wonders for Season 1 and 2 but season 4, except for a quick tour of earth, has been pretty much ship based on either galactica or the baseship. And I would have been perfectly fine with them stealing the Flashback structure from Lost. It works and you get great character insights.
Another “wish they would have” is I wish the writers would have left some of the final five on earth so, like Helo on Caprica in Season 1, we would have a character that slowly make discoveries about the nature of cylons, the final five and what life was like on Earth. I though this was going to happen when it looked like Saul was going to be killed. Wouldn’t have been great for him and another of the final five to be resurrected on Earth where Ellen is waiting and every week they learn a little bit more about where they came from – complete with flashbacks of their life on earth, how they met, how they created the skinjobs and how they rediscovered resurrection technology. The earth storyline was a little to quick for me and Ellen explaining where they came from is not as exciting as actually seeing it. Why did the planet get destoyed? Where did the Earth cylon’s go? Plus seeing the Earth cylon’s in a flashback would have been frakkin’ cool.
March 14th, 2009 at 1:00 am
So, the singularity as a time travel avenue is too easy. It could be a passage way to another reality. Those who chose to save Hera will be rewarded with higher beingness.
By the way, Baltar stays with the cylons. But just as galactica and its crew are about to be elliminated, the basestar under Baltars command, jumps in to shifts the balance. Humanity transcends onto higher beingness, except for Baltar. His fate to write the LAST chapter means he stays behind. He choses to be the one who throws the switch that brings about the transcendance knowing he will not be able to follow. The first selfless deed.
Where they go will not be told. It will have to be a matter of faith that they somehow transcended. Kara is special because she chose to leave her higher existence to help mankind make the leap. Remember the last of BSG 1980 when Starbuck is judged as good by the being of light in disguise. Well, Starbuck is that woman this time around.
Worse case, all is lost. The remaining humans and cylons who chose not to participate carry on the cycle. Those that chose the rescue are all lost.
Strangest scenario…
Those that nuked earth are pulling the strings. It was a cylon strain that acheived higher beingness and regret the nuking. And so they have been pulling the strings in the hopes of washing away the sins and bringing some of the fleet with them on the other side.
Frak it….
Lots of fighting. Lots of death. The last act of galactica is a jump and we never learn the result.
March 14th, 2009 at 1:00 am
OMG OMG OMG That was an awesome episode. I wanted to scream when I saw “To be continued” at the bottom of the screen.
This episode had a very “Lost -esque” type of style too it. Flashing back and forth from the present to the past and vice versa. Not fully knowing how it all pertains too the episode but you can’t wait to find out how. At least with BSG we will actually find out, as opposed to lost where they never actually tell you haha. Really looking forward to next weeks finally bonaza!!!
March 14th, 2009 at 1:18 am
Wow… this episode was like one of those really awesome Lost episodes. This was crazy good.
You know you are completely into an episode when the hours flies by so fast, you were not expecting to see the “To be continued” yet. I seriously thought I wasn’t even halfway through the episode. Man, I cannot believe we only have 90 minutes of BSG left. It is kind of hitting me right now. Wow… 90 minutes left.
If the final 90 minutes are this good, then it is going to be a mighty finale… a finale that all other shows will hope to match.
March 14th, 2009 at 2:02 am
Another excellent episode. It did however bear marks of rush on itself, but nothing that really matters, I guess. I’d like to actually analyze this first part of the series finale, seeing as this will be my last chance.
Did you notice how Baltar was completely dressed in white, while Six was completely in black? Loved the contrast. May be there was something more to it? Did you notice how when the quarrel between Gaius and his father began she moved to the side and watched quietly? This last season has revealed the Sixes, Head Six especially, as more of observers by nature, to me. When you think about Six during this season, she’s always been about what she has noticed/observed.
Did anyone think it was an intentional parallel that on Caprica Baltar was portrayed as one who only cares about status, money, power and etc; and in this episode that is what he asked for from Lee? “You haven’t changed, Gaius?” Head Six told him that he would be writing humanity’s final chapter – “The truth is being told by those who are left standing -T.Zarek?”
Did anyone interpret Lee’s visit from the pigeon in any way? The second I saw the bird I though of this “Rock Dove/Rock Pigeon, often called a messenger from God.” Was he being visited by the messenger of God?
I did not see Kara’s mandala painting in her apartment. Did she paint it after Zack’s death or was it just cleverly out of shot? Notice how the red cluster pattern lights were off during Starbuck/Adama’s father daughter moment at Sam’s? Excellent touch. Before they would be on regardless of Sam’s connectivity, but this time it was a good choice to leave them out and not distract from the beautiful moment.
Anyone had a Miniseries flashback when Laura went to the place she saw Baltar and Six at? In miniseries, did she go there after she was told she had cancer or … ? In Daybreak, the scene, to me, had a very “Faith” feeling and metaphor. To me, the close ups of the splashing water were a metaphor of the close up of the boat foam from “Faith.” The whole fountain place to me was a reference to the river and the moving water. Does anyone remember a scene with Lee where he was in space and he was ?imagining? he was in a river.
Does anyone ever think of a lawyer they know/or one they’ve seen when they look at his gestures? I enjoyed Bamber’s acting this season, and this episode shined with it too. To me it’s a big deal, because I can not help, but notice his movements which are very characteristic of lawyers. Not politicians (may be, I wouldn’t know), but lawyers.
Who thought “Typical Laura” when she did what needs to be done first after she was told her family has died?
Anyone feels Ellen’s character has suffered due to time constrains? Seems like all the secondary characters have been brought down to their most basic. I am happy, though, to see Ellen once again as a motivator/an initiator(/a muse
). Do you remember when she was making Tigh do things, like take command of the fleet? ELLEN!
Are they prepping Hoshi to take Admiral’s job for the remainder of the fleet? His interaction with Tigh seemed like it, to me. I didn’t look for him after the division. Where was he?
Anyone question the color of the duct tape? In general yellow is being used to outline space, but this one was red. I loved it. To me it was a metaphor for blood. It wasn’t white or black, life and death sort of thing, but red – blood. Were they crossing a line of blood? I thought about the preps before the New Caprica rescue, where they “colonially” had used white line, not even a solid one. But this one was solid red!
Did anyone feel that very few people volunteer? I felt this was due to the fact that most people were specifically to the left of Adama before the division and to the right – after. May be it was just my mind weighting the difference.
Anyway. Good luck next week everyone.
P.S: Geometry of space and time, spacetime continuum, is directly related to a four-vector momentum, in relativistic calculations, especially concerning gravitational redshift of light. End of line.
March 14th, 2009 at 2:07 am
This was a awesome episode! But its obvious that this episode is better watched back to back with the 2 hour finale. O.k i am going to mention a few things about this episode that i picked up on and from what i have read so far no one has picked up on yet. there is Alot of symbolism in the episode. and since they all fit together its safe to say that theyre not just a coincidence and will be awnsered along with all our awnsers in the finale. ok roslin under the fountain with her hands out stretched and crying. this is a direct symbol to the statue of the virgin mary. it was unmistakable. picked that one out straight away. the next is the doves that lee was trying to get out of the house. this is another symbolism. [interesting these are catholic symbolisms.] in catholicism they represent ‘love. devotion. purity’ and i just read on funeral monuments the dove signifies ‘the hope of the resurrection’ Ill get back to that in a moment.
the first images of the episode were scenes of the galaxy and the planet. and then the doves. if this episode has such Christian symboilogy then this means something too. the first scene looks like it represents [creation] and in Christian symbology god created creation out of love. [no im not a Christian.] and then you see the dove. that could represent love. and it also represents resurrection. as in the resurrection of kara Thrace? [and i dont think this is a stretch since there is that BSG pic of the last supper. foreshadowing maybe?] We are not going to get any awnsers untill the finale but thats something to think about.
March 14th, 2009 at 4:33 am
CJ- With all due respect, please, for the love of god, stop complaining. You’ve been complaining for at least four different episode chats and its bringing me down that you are doing it without giving the show a chance to complete. Will there or will there not be any explanation? Who cares? Will it be a Sopranos-type of ending, where you’re stuck making your own judgement? I don’t know. What you should be concerned, and especially happy about, is the fact that we’re GETTING an ending. The original “Star Trek” didn’t get an ending for that series. “Knight Rider”, “Battlestar Galactica” (TOS) and a lot of other great shows got the axe before they could even remotely get any kind of ending. Be happy that this series is getting a conclusion, ending by the producer’s choice not by SciFi. Whether or not that the ending has to make sense doesn’t matter. So, please…. Please…. Please…. No more complaining and let’s just wait and see what happens.
March 14th, 2009 at 5:17 am
First reactions:
Holy frak where’s the mini preview after the credits??
Oh my Gods they are tearing up the Galactica down to the Memoriam Wall: it was sad to see the wall with a few scattered pictures left…
Laura is one unlucky lady: she didn’t just lose a family member, she lost her entire family, a few years later she gets cancer, has a remission, gets cancer again, loses what was the closest thing to a son (Billy) & now she’s about to die leaving behind her one true love: good Gods I’m glad I’m not her!
Gaius telling Caprica he doesn’t remenber her name, Lee being a brother’s girlfriend stealer, the way he looks when he first sees Kara & the way he timidly tries to defend himself “I’m not a girlfriend stealer”. Those moments were priceless….
I was sure Gaius would cross that line, especially when he saw Caprica do it. but then again almost everyone that ever opposed him is going on a one way trip & he wants a position in the new government: well staying behind with your enemies gone is a good way to do that. Is it selfless act? It’s his destiny to survive to write humanity’s final chapter and not going as he clearly wants to join Caprica is indeed selfless. But it’s selfish because now he can weasel his way back in the government, and also he doesn’t get to go on a suicide mission & die. I guess I’ll have to see the end to figure out whether this was a selfless act indeed
Is it just me or having the President of the Colonies go on a one way trip a bad idea? I mean most of the ruling class we know of is going: the Admiral, his exo, the FF, the President, the former President, the CAG, Helo (stand in exo for Tigh) I mean if they all die this really is gonna be a new era!!
Cottle doesn’t get to go coz the fleet needs a doctor, but the President can? Surely cottle isn’t the only Doc on the fleet, right?
I also found the “you’re my daughter” moment touching but odd: it didn’t seem to be the best time for it like the writers really wanted Adama to finally verbalize it but didn’t know where to put it.
The Flashbacks were great: it was nice to see them more or less happy & in their original environment. Kudos to Mary McDonnel & the make up department: seeing her on Caprica was like seing her at the begining of the show. what a contrast between what she looked like back then, full of life and hair, and now, walking amongst the crowd, looking so fragile & well old. Kara too seemed like a different person: boyfriend happy on Caprica & bleak & burdened now. It was a lovely sight to see the Adamas girls sticking together, Kara supporting Laura. Especially after all they’ve been through in season 4.0
And yeah the “to be continued” was followed by aa AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRGHHH moment!
Friday seems so far away & yet so close….
March 14th, 2009 at 5:23 am
Also that pretty huge serynge Simon has & the noise it makes gave me the creeps. he’s just gonna impale the poor girl, not inject or take anything. by the look on her face I’m guessing she’s thinking the same.
March 14th, 2009 at 6:24 am
Its quietly amazing when story tellers embrace a tale and allow it to weave a tapestry. And instead of unravelling when you pull one thread they knit a fabric with luster and grace.
Here is a toast to a tale well woven and story well told!
March 14th, 2009 at 6:30 am
How does Anders not get ‘raisin skin’ like when you’ve been in the bath tub too long?
You KNOW you were wondering the same thing!
March 14th, 2009 at 7:36 am
Doc Cottles name is Sherman. It’s something that hasn’t really been important throughout the series, but nice to finally know the Docs first name.
March 14th, 2009 at 8:02 am
The bird was surely a symbol for something, but not a Christian symbol. It was, it seems to me, a pigeon, not a dove. I was reminded of an old saying, “A bird in the house means a death in the house.” The death of Zack, perhaps?
Also, I did see the mandala on the wall.
I think the flashbacks were a sort of backdoor pilot for The Plan, or even meant to get us used to seeing Caprica.
March 14th, 2009 at 9:40 am
This has all happened before but will it really happen again? Ive been a huge fan of BSG from the begining. Manley because I was a Star Trek fan before BSG and liked RDMs work in DS9.Battlestar Galactica has made me really think of the whole history repeats itself concept. We are seeing it played out right know in real life. America was in a war (WWI) which lead to the stock market crashing.That caused the world to be plunged into WWII. 2003 America goes to war again which leads to the stock market crashing again.And you can guess what comes next.WWIII. WWIV will be fought with a real life centurion army. Unless we wipe ourselves out first.
March 14th, 2009 at 9:43 am
WWV will be fought with spears and shields.
March 14th, 2009 at 10:13 am
This episode is just a case of too little too late. I think what happened was that with the increased episode order for season 4 from the Sci Fi Channel is that the Sci Fi Channel simply didn’t budget enough money for these extra episodes. Thus, you have three consecutive episodes of NOTHING. And then all of the money was poured into the Finale because Ron Moore had this idea of what he wanted to do. If the last three episodes hadn’t aired and all we got were from “Sometimes a Great Notion” to “No Exit” and then the finale, then it would have worked. I wouldn’t have completely liked it – but I also wouldn’t have been bored to death for three weeks waiting for the finale.
However, as I said earlier, this hour WAS JUST MORE SET-UP. There are now only 90 show-minutes to answer ALL OF THE IMPORTANT UNANSWERED QUESTIONS – including WHAT EXACTLY THE HEAD CHARACTERS ARE.
The Naked Singularity physical phenomena REEKS of Deus Ex Machina – because in reality it really is the Physics Equivalent of a Deus Ex Machina, in spirit, because the physical laws within and around a Naked Singularity are completely bizarre and 99.9% UNKNOWN – in other words, literally ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN.
Now the new question is, WHO BUILT THE COLONY and WHEN DID THEY BUILD IT? Will Ron Moore answer this? NO, OF COURSE NOT.
March 14th, 2009 at 10:32 am
It happened once and will happen again!
we see Caprica once again with all the happy people. Yea of course its flashbacks but maybe it should prepare us to the idea of “It happened once and will happen again!”?
Another thing – all the politicians are leaving – Adama, Roslin. I was sure that Baltar would leave too but he stayed and now he can be in a very high political status. yea I know nobody had elected him but hey, its a new era isn’t it? “It happened once and will happen again!” – Roslin was the president even before she’s been elected because a new era came – the post colonies ( colonies were the home for all those people – the one place where people feel secure ) era. Now, post Galcatica (that became home for thousands of people in the fleet – as Baltar said they were looking out of the windows and feeling safer seeing Galactica ) era is once again time for a non elected president.
“It happened once and will happen again!” – FF – worst case scenario both parts – Adama rescue mission part or defenseless without Galactica civilian part – would die except of couple of chosen ones. FF survived thanks to some prior information – Baltar can receive this info from head six. Kara from her head dad.
My “next round” FF:
1. Kara
2. Lee
3. Chief for a second round – or any other FF.
4. Boomer.
5. Hera.
Kara and Lee are madly in love. 2 man and 3 women. Chief is the oldest -> Original FF are chief and Tory were madly in love. 2 man and 3 women. One old guy.
OR:
1. Baltar ( scientist that can recreate resurrection technology ).
2. Cottle.
3. Some Six.
4. Some 8 – like athena.
5. ?
same idea as the 7 lines ago -> Baltar and Six – madly in love. Cottle is the old guy. 2 men 2 women -> one man short – just can’t think of someone – maybe the new admiral after Adama leaves.
It happened once and will happen again!!!!!
)))
March 14th, 2009 at 10:37 am
just one mistake – wanted to say:
“Adama rescue mission part and defenseless ( without Galactica ) civilian part” and not “Adama rescue mission part or defenseless without Galactica civilian part”
March 14th, 2009 at 10:39 am
I am new to posting here but not new to reading the many wonderful comments about this show…however, for frak sakes CJ will you cease and desist your negative comments!
Fine, you don’t like the last 3 episodes but some of us did enjoy them and we really don’t come here to have someone tear down the last few episodes of such a great show but instead to share ideas and theories about what everything could mean, etc.
So to all of those including Matt & Nat who have done us all a great service by having this wonderful site where fans can meet and discuss I send out a huge thank you from a late fan to the series!
March 14th, 2009 at 10:44 am
Origin of real life cylons? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v28M46fvLig Origin of resurrection tech?
Also ellen said that the centurions and the F5 went to the colony after the war. She never said that they were the ones who built it. Was it built by the Lords of Kobol , The Beings of Light? Little Grey men? Something else to. What if the angels/BOL and the LOK are to separate races in a war? The LOK could be demons and the BOL could be the angels? Perhaps there are also to “gods”.There is one main real God who is good and and is the leader of the Angels and one false god who we call the devil, who is the cylon god, and who also takes the role of Count IBIS from TOS.
March 14th, 2009 at 10:46 am
@ kaybrid, Very nice points. I second your statement that this was a set up for Caprica. All those shots in the beginning had me thinking about the upcoming show. Very nice.
I love how differently the pigeon was interpreted by everyone. BTW I called it Rock Dove, but is also called Rock Pigeon or simply Pigeon (also, I believe the same species that is the Domestic Pigeon and City Pigeon). I got my interpretation from an old Japanese religion in which they are the messengers (all of them are one called Hachiman) of God (Kami).
Like your too. Zack’s death – hmmm.
Anyone got any other interpretations?
@ llewella, did you notice how Katee (Kara) did not know that Mary (Roslin) would want to grab her hand? Cause Mary tried to reach for it, but Katee seemed like she ?didn’t know/forgot? and when Mary decided to back out from that, Katee gave her a hand. Did it look a bit funny to anyone? I mean, was that just great acting or just something that happened accidentally? Nice to have it in the final edit
March 14th, 2009 at 10:48 am
The pigeons created cylons, the cylons, created man, man created the cylons.lol.
March 14th, 2009 at 11:39 am
By itself I think this is an average episode but I suspect my view of it will be improved after I have watched the finale due to the unanswered questions regarding the point of the flashbacks being answered.
In some ways the flashbacks are reminscent of the view of death given in faith, as alot of them were to do with the peoples families which would mean that all the people who had a flashback are due to die in the finale.
What I want to know about the volunteers is was the call limited to people on galactica and ex military as I would have thought a few more of the cylons would want to volunteer given Hera’s importance to them. I also want to know what the Centurions think of all this as they seem to be forgotten, there was this big fuss about removal of inhibitors early on and then practically nothing, though I would not be surprised if they play an unforseen role in the finale (it would have been funny to have a Adama call for volunteers then a bunch of cylon centurions all volunteer leaving everyone else uneasy what to do). For that matter whats happened to Leoben? as I cant recall seeing him since the mutiny.
As for Baltar, it is fairly obvious he will be a late volunteer or will somehow stay on Galactica, I am only surprised that he did not do so in this episode as it looked like he wanted to. It was also good to have in episode confirmation of his family origins and that he was telling the truth, this should also put pay to some of the ridiculous speculation about his parentage that had been floating around. Does anyone else now think the person Caprica 6 was meeting in the pilot was Baltars father.
Anyway after this episode I have renewed belief that the conclusion will be satisfying I only wish there had been another season to allow for better fleshing out of the events of this series some of which have felt rushed or seemed to be abandoned
March 14th, 2009 at 11:54 am
Did anyone else think the flashbacks felt like webisodes? They really stand alone and add to the characters back stories like a webisode
Also Sam’s flashback was brilliant the joy he derived from the pure physics of sport, so simple, such a breathtaking machine, really perfect for him,so sweet and joyful yet strong and powerful
The bird (dove or pigeon it doesn’t really matter), is as mentioned above an omen of death. Maybe Zack existed to introduce Kara Thrace to Lee and the Admiral, she is all the Adama mens’ true love. Maybe she was resurrected and is the Adama daughter from Caprica.
Roselin, how very tragic, I don’t know if she was the Virgin Mary in the fountain, maybe a Hindu Goddess? Any thoughts?
Good work with these flashbacks. It got me in the mood for Caprica and thinking about the BSG characters, they have more meaning to me today then they did yesterday, Kudos for inspiring thought and feeling.
March 14th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
The Layers of the new cycle have already taken place New Capprica will take the place of earth in the Myth as the lost tribe and the humans and cybrids will take the place of the new twelve tribes and the Colony will take the place of the Kobol as the birht place of humanity or cylonity for that matter. Same story different names so the final 3 hours of the series I hope will be Awsome but wont change much Cylons are the new humans, Humans will become the New Lords Of Kobol\Colony. Did not the humans Create the cylons in to begin with. The Mythe stays the same just new charactors. The die has been cast and “What was will be again” has already begun
March 14th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
Something i found over at the Patriot Resource. seems interesting for series finale.
Most of the crew volunteers for the suicide mission.
The plan is to use Galactica as bait while a small team (including Athena and Helo) infiltrate the Colony using a Heavy Raider (Galactica doesn’t just jump in and start shooting – there’s a good chance that Hera will be killed if Galactica and co. jump right in and just start shooting).
A massive fight ensues. Galactica gets the hell knocked out of it. The Cylons take the ship, and they’re about to take out Adama and Tigh in CIC until they meet some unexpected resistance from Gaius Baltar. Baltar is critically wounded.
At the Colony, Boomer betrays Cavil and hands Hera over to Athena, though Helo is wounded (and possibly killed).
Boomer and the Guardians (who turn on Cavil because he’s going to dissect Hera) turn off Cavil’s control over the Centurians and Raiders – but Boomer dies by Cavil’s hand.
The freed Raiders and Centurions recognize what Cavil has done to them, and, more importantly, that Anders is piloting Galactica, and so they stop attacking the humans and turn on Cavil.
Another massive fight ensues. Cavil and co. are destroyed, but Galactica is crippled.
The fleet jumps to the sight of the battle to evacuate Galactica.
The Raiders and Centurions feed Anders the location of a habitable world that Cavil knew of, then leave forever. Anders feeds the fleet the coordinates and everyone jumps there, though the strain of jumping the shattered Galactica kills Anders.
Roslin dies aboard the ruins of Galactica. Adama stays with her, alone on a dead ship. Baltar dies on the new planet…which he dubs Earth.
Hera reveals that Daniel survived, after a fashion, and that he’s been guiding his loved ones as best he can through projection. Starbuck and Baltar are his children (and yes, eat your heart out, smooching Luke and Leia from ESB, the original Starbuck DID have sex with her brother); and Daniel plugged into Roslin after she took on Cylon blood.
After Apollo runs around in a lush field shooting his gun into the air like a maniac, he and Starbuck embrace.
Flash forward to thousands of years later. The setting: the planet the humans and Cylons settled, specifically, NYC. “All of this has happened before….”
March 14th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
JCX you forgot to mention the Cylons attack us again by ruining wall street. Wallstreet lobyists=cylons.:)
March 14th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
I really loved the new views of Caprica City. the CGI was AMAZING. For a second, I thought it was a view of modern day earth, but then I saw the colonial passenger liners. I thought it looked the way manhattan may look in 30 or so years. In the miniseries, all we got to see was a park, and the main skyline. I’m really glad that we actually got to see an urban landscape. When the camera zoomed in on baltar’s limmo, I couldn’t tell if it was real or animated! FANTASTIC!
Yeah… I enjoy architecture a little too much..
March 14th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
great ending jcx, I also liked Brad’s ending on his site, I would take either one, except one thing, Lee and Kara will not be happy or together, that is not happening because of the bird.
March 14th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
JCX the orginal starbuck was a guy. So unless he was gay I dont see how that would work.Though I dont get why baltar would be karas brother. He is from arelon and has a british accent. Looks nothing like kara either.
March 14th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
My guess is that the young man Roslin was set up to go on a date with in the flashback was the man who killed her family and she will realize that in the middle of the date.
March 14th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
A car accident, a pigeon and an old-folks home! Of course, now it makes perfect sense… Definitely a sub-par episode. Here’s hoping the final episode will not be squandered the way this one was.
March 14th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
Sean Ellison or something like that. I guess we’ll find out who he was next week.
March 14th, 2009 at 4:01 pm
An old old british sounding guy and his son living in an apartment?Sorta reminded me of that old Fraser show.I hope they make caprica be a clever funny sitcom like how Fraser,Friends,Seinfeld,3RDrock,and that 70s show were. Instead of being a serious drama.Im just kidding btway.
March 14th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
when it meant original Starbuck it meant the body that she found on earth. not the current body she is in. And accents are not genetic. theyre more of based around your surrounding and the poeple u grew up tlaking to n listenin to the most as a child.
March 14th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
Baltar is totally Jesus. ‘He needs to make a selfless act’, ‘putting others first and not thinking of himself’… what a set up.
I’m not saying its going to be an exact duplicate, the Romans aren’t going to crucify him.. but he will lose his life doing something selfless for the good/advancement of mankind. (er.. man/cylonkind).
Perhaps Mel Gibson will make a movie about it? =D
March 14th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
CJ thanks for putting in all the caps. That way I can skip your rants without actually having to read them.
March 14th, 2009 at 5:07 pm
Baltar can really never make a selfless act. Even if he sacrifices himself it would still be just to make him look heroic.So Lee was wright. Any thing baltar does always somehow benefits himself.
March 14th, 2009 at 5:09 pm
I think that the flashbacks all have the same theme: the changes that set each character on their current path. Baltar probably wouldn’t have remained with Caprica had she not helped his father in the way she did. In addition seeing Baltar’s relationship with his father likely made him that much more human and, hence, that much more attractive to Caprica. Both of their paths were thus altered. In a similar manner, Kara probably wouldn’t have been assigned to Galactica had it not been for her engagement with Zak Adama. (One imagines that either she chose her billet knowing that it would be Bill Adama’s ship or that Adama pulled strings to get her there.) Lee, on the other hand, probably wouldn’t have acted towards Kara the way that he has if it were not for this meeting. The death of Laura’s father and sisters probably set her on the political path which ultimately lead to her her becoming the President of the Colonies. Anders’ past obsession with the perfection of math and physics, as manifested in the Pyramid game, may be guiding him in his current incarnation as a hybrid. The only flashback that seems somewhat puzzling is Adama’s. In this case, I’m going to speculate that he is about to appear before a secret government intelligence committee concerning the Valkyrie incident and that he is somewhat indignant that he is going to take the fall. (See the episode “Hero”.) But, whatever Adama’s flashback may be referencing, I’m guessing that the incident put him on course to become the last commander of Galactica.
March 14th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
Hi folks,
Yeah, yeah – I really liked the flashbacks and the “fly-overs” from Caprica. There were some good moments – I only started to feel the emotions at the “great divide”, but otherwise this episode was, in my humble opinion, a dudd. There are still too many loose-ends and getting them tied up will have to be a rush job – even if the last episode has a running time of 2 hours. I’ve got three words for the BSG-Team: dazzle me – please.
Regards,
Ripley
March 14th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
Plus baltar isnt the first allegory for Jesus.That lion from Narnia an the Master Chief from Halo were also both Jesus allegoryS.I dont think having someone having a similar role to Jesus will happen considering its been done before and wouldnt be original.Unless you have Jesus himself come down from heaven for his “Second Coming” alongside with his angels.
March 14th, 2009 at 5:16 pm
RDM kinda looks like Jesus.A possible cameo?:)
March 14th, 2009 at 5:29 pm
I wonder if this is also a bsg Connection. There were 12 apostles of Jesus,12 tribes of Israel with a lost 13th.12 Greek Gods,There was also in the bible a Greek god who was called “AN UNKNOWN GOD” as mentioned in Acts 17 when Paul was preaching in Athens.
March 14th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
Forgot this in my last post. Paul was preaching that the the unkown God was the one true God.Sounds similar to the colonials “God whos name must not be spoken”.
March 14th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
I do think that Hera’s stars are pointing to the real Earth that is about 30 light years away as estimated by astronomical star mapping software (Hall, 2009; Starry Night, 2009). I do think that the coordinates that the mining ship did FTL to are of the real Earth that has the North American continent we saw at the conclusion of the Season 3. The real Earth will arrive either tonight or, more likely, in the 2 hour finale. The FTL jump effects do indicate a mandala effect of 3 layers that suggest the 3 levels of consciousness found in Mormon theology (Liss & Gomez, 2009; Liss, 2009). The mandala effect after the jump back of the mining ship was extraordinary suggesting that the ship had been somewhere of special significance such as the real Earth we are familiar with.
The 3 levels are the humans, the Cylons that are part mechanical and part organic and the ascended beings that were called “Beings of Lights” in the Original Series and are represented by the Head Six, Head Balter in Caprica Six and Head Leoben for the resurrected Starbuck and are called “Lords of Kobol” in the Re-imaged Series. These “Lords of Kobol” are the angelic like guides that appear as familiar people and navigate important characters through crises.
References:
Hall, M. (2008, August 27). Will the Constellations Match in the Future? Retrieved March 13, 2009, from http://www.galactica-science.com/battlestar/blog/astronomy/will-the-constellations-match-in-the-future.
Liss, Jeff & Gomez, Tina. (2009). Secrets of Battlestar Galactica. Retrieved March 13, 2009, from http://sqpn.com/category/books-movies-and-music/secrets-of-battlestar-galactica.
Liss, Jeff. (2009). Secrets of Battlestar Galactica [Web album]. Retrieved March 13, 2009, from http://picasaweb.google.com/monupics/SecretsOfBattlestarGalactica
Starry Night Store. (2009). Retrieved March 13, 2009, from http://www.starrynightstore.com.
March 14th, 2009 at 6:27 pm
Hi everybody,
I’m a longtime lurker, first-time poster… So please be gentle with any responses
.
I loved this episode… Can’t wait to see the final, except that I don’t want BSG to end, but I’m guessing most of us are sharing this sentiment.
About the episode I wanted to give my two cents and mention that I found Lee had a couple of very interesting moments in this episode:
- His scene with Baltar… Did anyone else think back to the scene Lee had with Laura Roslin, where she told him he always did the right thing, but that that wasn’t always the smart thing to do? Baltar kept saying that letting one of his people into the governement was the RIGHT thing… I kept thinking ‘but it isn’t the smart thing’. Luckily (finally) Lee seemed to realize that as well.
- His scene with Kara and Zak… I’m not too sure about that one, as I kinda always imagined Kara and Lee going further back in time, but I liked to see Kara’s apartment in a cleaned up version… It showed clearly what a downward spiral she had gotten herself into when zak died.
- I found it a bit perculiar that Lee would choose to go on the ’suicide mission’ with the Galactica… but after viewing the preview for next week final, I think I spotted him with a viper collar on. Which makes me believe we could see some final viper action of Apollo/Starbuck. Anybody else thrilled about that?
March 14th, 2009 at 7:17 pm
Hello everyone. I’m a little late for the game here, but I’ve been a lurker for a long time and thought I’d throw in my two cents just for the hell of it.
I think there have been many interesting points stated here, and I’m sure many more to come. I agree that I believe that the flashbacks while very reminiscent to the LOST style flashbacks, they did add some fascinating spice to the story. However, to quote a friend of mine on this episode, “Its a little late in the game to do back story isn’t it?” True, it is very late in the game, however it is also the very last chance to show back story of any kind. I think it was a nice touch to show not only the first steps of these characters we have become so close to over the years on this long journey, but also to briefly highlight contrasts in their beginnings to this, the end. The one thing they have in common, is the overwhelming reluctance they have to be what they must become later.
Bill Adama doesn’t want to be on the Galactica for the decommission, we see him trying to actually get out of doing his duty because he finds it unsavory. How many times will that come back to bite him in the ass? Roslin does not want to have anything to do with politics, and I also thought it was a nice touch to show her as someone who had lost her entire family, but who would soon become the matriarch for the entire remaining members of the human race. Kara Thrace is shown in a happy domestic light, in sharp contrast to her bitter and driven self later. Baltar has little interest in continuing a relationship with Carprica Six, and is perhaps persuaded by an act of kindness that he himself is unable or unwilling to do for his own father. (Is Caprica Baltar’s Jimney Cricket? In the original version of Pinocchio, Pinocchio killed the cricket out of frustration, but the cricket’s ghost continued to advise him afterwards). And Lee, poor Lee Adama is shown to be nothing more than a drunk guy trying to chase a bird out of his apartment; a world away from the de facto civilian leader of all of humanity It was strange machinations of fate that caused these people to become the most important people in the world (and soon off the world). And of course we saw Anders in what I thought was a very interesting moment speaking of the joys of creation and physics. Very telling for essentially an architect of new life and indirectly of the destruction of life as everyone knew it.
As for the quantum singularity, it does loom like a great “God from the Machine” on the edge of the plot waiting to possibly devour it or send it speeding off into some unlikely future, past or parallel world inhabited by some robot entombed Maximillian Schell. I will trust Mr. Moore and his wonderful crew to bring us to a delightful end (or beginning?) but I hope it is not too corny, and yet at the same time hope it does end with some form of catharsis for years of Post 911 cynicism and darkness.
Other thoughts; I like the symmetry between the storm cloud of Ragnar Anchorage and the Black Hole of the Cylon Colony, with one way in and one way out. The only difference here is that now Galactica will be making a surprise appearance instead of the Cylon fleet, and of course will be playing offense in this last play in the game.
Also, if Baltar ends up going on the one way trip, will he and Caprica be the ones who save Hera? That would explain a lot about those visions wouldn’t it? It looks like Caprica is going and he is not right now, but if he makes a very Gaius-last-minute-change-of-mind then he would really and truly have a chance to redeem himself.
And lastly, just to throw out yet another wacky theory on Hera’s minimalistic pointillism. I like the idea of the dots representing a star map as well as musical notes, but they are awfully linear for that. Looking at Hera holding the drawing vertically made me notice it sort of reminded me of the oscillating pattern of the double helix of DNA. Crazy thought here, what if Hera just happens to magically know the secret of her genome sequence that Caville’s band of merry cylons are attempting to get? Okay, that’s a little crazy for even me, but who knows what RM has in store for us?
Hell, maybe Q will pop up.
March 14th, 2009 at 7:25 pm
Or its just a message from Bob Dylan or Jimi Hendrix from beyond the grave saying just to keep on rockin!
March 14th, 2009 at 7:33 pm
What version of the song is your alls favorite? I thought bears was ok but didnt think it was great.I didnt think it was alful either though. My second favorite is hendrixs version. But my all time fav is the dave mathews band one.
There must be some kind of way out of here
Said the joker to the thief
Too much confusion
I can’t get no relief
Business men they
Drink my wine
Oh, and the plowmen dig my EARTH
None of them along the line
Know what any of it’s worth
No reason to get excited
The thief he kindly spoke
There aren’t many here among us
That feel that life is but a joke ha, ha, ha…
But you and I we’ve been through that, oh
And this is not our fate
So let us not talk falsely now
The hour is getting late
And All Along the Watchtower
Princes kept their view
While all the women, all the women, all the women, came and they went
Barefoot servants, too
Outside in the cold distance
A wild cat did growl, la la la
Two riders were approaching
The wind began to howl
Yeah…
All Along the Watchtower
The princes kept their view, oh
While all the women came and they went
Barefoot servants, too
Outside in the cold distance
A wild cat did growl, la la la
Two riders were approaching
The wind begins to… howl.
The money safe
The thief he take
The money safe
The thief he take
No reason to get excited
(lyrics of the dave mathews band version)
March 14th, 2009 at 8:03 pm
I find it highly amusing that at this time we have the almost Biblical lyrics of Dylan trying to communicate to us not only through BSG but also Watchmen. (still waiting for that review guys)
The Watchtower=The Cylon Colony
Two Riders=The Human/Cylon alliance
Plenty of reason to get excited though!
March 14th, 2009 at 9:03 pm
Hey All,
I loved this episode! It was amazing, and the flashbacks reminded me of Laura’s visions when she was dying in Epiphanies (right?). The bright light was like it was when she saw Baltar w/the 6 on Caprica before the attacks. I liken them to that moment, as it is what the are remembering as they die– very well done. As for the pigeon–I think, and I said this in other sites, that it was the first time Lee got trashed w/Kara, and I think that Zak’s accident may have occurred while they were out having TOO much fun together. The pigeon is the death of Zak and it would add to the way we saw Lee and Kara in the first 1/2 of the series; as did the first meeting.
It was great to see Kara and Laura so happy, it was fleeting, but I really loved it. I loved seeing how much Lee loved his brother, it was a side we never saw because we saw it, as he did, –he probably blocked out a lot of it because of the pain. Who knew Lee was a boozer and a womanizer, right? As for Adama, are we sure that was the decommissioning? Zak died 2 years before that day; and I think they were all supposed to be that time frame, so it was something else.
As for Baltar, what a bastard! How he hit his own father! I saw how much he hated what he came from; l think that his father looked down upon his success, and never gave him a break; a lot like Kara’s mother. His father also reminded me of that old creepy hybrid we saw in Razor–the one who called Kara the harbinger of death? i never knew how much Baltar hated himself and what he was, until this episode; it explained a great deal. Plus Caprica 6? Holy manipulation, whoa.
Laura’s past–that was horrendous, horrendous. Little did she know it was that moment that defined her and aided her in helping humanity survive. It was horrible, and amazing how they showed in that moment that she got the news, and dismissed them, and stood there, as she has so many times on Colonial One, that, that was when she became President Laura Roslin.
I loved seeing Anders in the tub–showing some of his real self–using the word perfection, so many times as that was probably his thinking when building the 8. I liked how it paralleled the Chief telling Helo, that the 8’s were all the same and he was stupid to believe otherwise; and that they made them that way. When Helo, his devotion is so amazing- says that his wife is different, and it was because Chief loved Boomer he did what he did, that’s why he can’t blame him for doing what he did. The Chief, is done–he hates the cylons, but he seems to almost be resolved now; like he has a purpose.
Wow! As for the present, the whole family is going on the mission: Adama (Dad), Mom, Daughter (Kara) and son ( Lee), and I hope Baltar would cross that line, but who knows. I also loved the Chief dragging Tory over the line saying, “You have something better to do?”–loved it.
Where to begin: I noticed that more people are calling Helo, Karl–they never did that before. I think it shows how their lives are changing and moving farther and farther from the colonial fleet. The destruction of the Galactica will be the end, and I think that Laura and Adama are going w/the ship, I’m not sure about Tigh–I still question his ability to live w/out Adama; even w/Ellen. I also thought that one of the 5 would try to resurrect and get on the Colony to get inside; but I guess that wouldn’t work at this point.
The Black Hole: it has enormous meaning for several reasons. Didn’t Kara die in one? But for some reason it represents some kind of time travel or a transition to a new world, and that they will end up in that place that Laura saw and what Natalie saw when she died. I still don’t get the music and how Hera is writing more and more of it as she waits in the Colony. I cannot even hazard a guess at this point–but I think they’re going down in that black hole w/that music playing, or at least the galactica will as she takes it down. It will be like when the Pegasus blew up the base star in Exodus II.
Finally Adama–talking to Anders, of course accepting Kara, amazing. We saw again his greatness as a leader, as that moment was akin to how in Home I, he realized that he made a mistake, and he had to put the fleet back together. He realized as he did in Home II, that he made a mistake and fixing it meant the survival of the fleet. He has done it again–this time seeking guidance from Anders, not Dee, and making the tough choice again.
I loved how the end game is so near and so dark, and when Hot Dog says there were pix of people that no one could remember anymore, it became apparent just how low, and bad, things had become since Earth.
wow, sorry for the book, but I can’t believe it’s almost over!
A
March 14th, 2009 at 9:05 pm
Twelvecolonies at March 14th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
A car accident, a pigeon and an old-folks home! Of course, now it makes perfect sense… Definitely a sub-par episode. Here’s hoping the final episode will not be squandered the way this one was.
BEST COMMENT YET.
March 14th, 2009 at 10:22 pm
With the colony on the event horizon, time travel/wormhole could be possible. It looks like the entry portal is at a LaGrange point near the colony. Maybe our Earth is a dimentional jump away – only possible through a black hole.
It does look like the Grey Lady is going to be nuked. MAybe a self-destruct mechanism that will let them take out Cavil’s hideaway? Talk about a Star Trek reference!
Is Kara REALLY Adama’s daughter or more like an “adopted” daughter? She certainly didn’t look surprised when the Admiral made that comment.
Helo is a great dad. Never giving up hope on finding and bringing his daughter home.
The line down the landing bay sort of reminded me of Peter Pan & Neverland – drawing a line in the sand for the Lost Boys to take sides. And if anyone could be the Lost Boys, it would be the crew of Galactica. Adama is Peter. Then, I guess that makes Cavil none other than Captain Hook!
Second star to the right. Straight on ’till morning!
Anyone want to recommend an Ambrosia to toast the ship & crew next week?
March 14th, 2009 at 10:26 pm
Well “lets make sure that history never forgets the name….Galactica”
March 14th, 2009 at 10:31 pm
hey Shauna–
Kara has been like a daughter to Adama since Zak and more so since he was killed. It was a bone of contention in his relationship w/Lee at the beginning of the series. Lee had always felt like Adama loved his brother more than him, although Lee loved and protected his brother. Butg when he died, and Adama became closer to Kara as a result of Zak, he felt slighted.
Does that make sense?
A
March 14th, 2009 at 10:34 pm
Mabey the other side of the black hole is a also a wormhole which is responsible for the great red spot or as its also called “the eye of jupiter”.BSG could still take place so far in our past that we have forgotten and any evidence of the colonials/cylons has long since been destroyed do to decay.It could be hundreds of thousands or even millions of years ago.
March 14th, 2009 at 10:37 pm
Sorry for to posts in a row. But the black hole also being a wormhole could be another trek reference. Considering that Ronald D. Moore worked on Deep space 9 which was about a space station guarding a wormhole. Cylon colony=DS9?
March 14th, 2009 at 10:56 pm
This was the greatest episode ever. SO many things explained.
The part of the car accident, omg I almost fell out of my chair.
Baltar’s dad’s acting was amazing it brought tears to my eyes.
Adama didn’t want to PLUG anders in or ask him questions. HOW COOL IS THAT!?
When Roslin was acting silly and went to sit under that waterfall, didn’t that give you goosebumps?
Helo and Athena’s conversation was deep.
When Simon turned on his tool I was like UH OH!!!!!
The conversation between Baltar and Lee, that was like the best reasoning ever.
The writing and dialogue in this episode was just phenomenal. I had to rewatch it again.
Lets not forget Lee trying to catch that bird in his apartment. THAT WAS EPIC.
I HOPE THE NEXT EPISODE is just as good. I hope they rush it and it answers no questions.
That way everyone will be like WHAT THE FRAK WAS THAT!!!
March 14th, 2009 at 11:04 pm
My two cent prediction…. Galactica and its band of “rag-tag” warriors jumps to the heavily monitored and guarded landing spot created by the hive. The battle ensues as an intentional distraction to support a rescue mission for Hera. WIth an assist by Boomer, the rescue is successful. However on the flight back to the Galactica, the old girl is clearly on her final last leg – she is ripping apart. Losing structural integrity isn’t her biggest problem… her ability to hold position is lost and she begins to drift. With a thousand nuclear warheads in flight from the hive, she drifts into the point of singularity… and ummm… well…. this is where my idea gets really goofy – so I will stop there for now.
Of course there is scenario #2 – Hera is able to destroy the entire colony on her own when they put the first tube in her. Independence Day Virus. Boomer returns with the intent to save Hera and realizes the work is done. She escapes with Hera back to the newly arriving Galactica… hmmmm….. structural integrity lost due to the jump, drifting into the singularity… !@#$ — I am back to my other scenario. oh well. will keep thinking.
March 14th, 2009 at 11:27 pm
Athena@ It does make sense and I agree. I also think Kara looks at the Admiral as a father-figure. I was just speculating if Adama was saying something new.
Centurian005@ “Destruct sequence 1. Code 1, 1A.”
I just rewatched this episode for the 3rd time while working in my classroom. (Yes, I know it is 12:20 AM) Laura’s entrance reminded me of the climax sdcene from the movie/book “Death Be Not Proud.” A terminally ill teen slowly, painfully walked down the aisle to receive his deploma. It’s a lot like her walk.
Gaius just could NOT bring himself to step over the line. Not surprised.
The music when Laura appeared to take a stand at Adama’s side is similar to the music from the morgue scene from “Blackhawk Down.” Did you notice Kara supporting Laura, both physically and emotionally? (note the handholding.)
Did anyone notice that Lee is NOT wearing his wings or even rank insignia, but it appears to be his commander’s uniform from Pegasus.
March 14th, 2009 at 11:46 pm
I quite liked this episode actually. It may not have been a sit on the edge of your seat kind of one, but it was still quite good. Still no answers as to what exactly it all means, but I wasn’t really expecting any for this episode. They have to leave us with a hook for the finale right? One more week to go!! Huzzah!!
* I really missed the mini-recap after the credits. I was very disappointed that it wasn’t there.
The flashbacks were great! Some of them made very little sense to me at all, but I have hope that they will be explained.
* The apartment that Kara and Zak are in is NOT her apartment that we see on Caprica in Valley of Darkness. Not only is her S2 place a rathole, but it is structurally different. The stairs are in the same position, but the railing is different, wooden (VOD) versus metal (D1). The walls are a different colour (which could be explained by age, time, wear and tear or nuclear radiation…. The kitchen is VERY different. In VOD its about half the size, and has metal gratings to keep it enclosed.
* From this, I think it’s safe to assume that either Kara was visiting Zak’s apartment in the flashback, or they lived there together. It’s interesting that the apartments have the same set up. Then again, it may just be that the set designers had a perfectly good setup already, and jst redressed it. We know that the apartment Leoben kept Kara in on New Caprica was set out in the same way as her apartment on Caprica.
* Can we then assume that Kara chose her own rathole beacuse it looked like Zak’s swanky place? Was it a shared place and she couldn’t afford the upkeep on one salary? Did she just want to get away from the memories?
* Interesting to see the mandala on the wall of the apartment, and in a different place than the one in Kara’s Caprican place. In this ep, we see it over Kara’s shoulder as she opens the doors (so the painting is at the TOP of the stairway) as compared to the bottom of the stairway in Valley of Dakrness.
* Also interesting to see that the poem was not featured on the D1 painting, as it is in VOD.
(Methodically
Smoking my cigarette
With every breath
I breathe
out the day
With every delicious sip
I drink away the night
stroking my hair to the beat of his heart.
watching a boy turn into a Man.)
* I don’t know what it was about seeing Kara cooking that was just so damn interesting. Just seeing her in such a different light than how we’ve seen her since Zak’s death. (and huzzah for getting the same actor to come back to play Zak, despite having only seen him once before)
It brings the question, though, why are we seeing Zak now, when it’s been a eighty episodes since the last time he appeared? Like I mentioned in my post last week, should we still be thinking about Leoben’s “Adama is a cylon”, or should we let it die. Leoben lies, we know this. He lied about Kacey, so we know we can’t trust him. Just thought I’d throw that out there once more.
* Man it sucks to be Laura. That’s the first mention at all of her family. What prompted the writers to throw in a backstory about her family? Am I remembering correctly that her mother also died of breast cancer? Is this why Roslin didn’t seem so very upset after the first attacks, because her family was already dead? What prompted her to join Adar when she was so against politics? I recall something about she and Adar sleeping together before the attacks, so what changed?
* What the hell was with Lee and the pigeon? Seriously! Although, when I heard him say ’stupid frakking bird’ I immediately thought of the only type of ‘bird’ we’ve seen in BSG. The vipers. So, if as a few of you have said earlier, that the pigeon is an omen of death, about Zak, who died because of a ’stupid frakking bird’, it is very interesting.
* Seeing Baltar with his dad was very interesting. Seeing Six watching Baltar hitting his father was…uncomfortable. I wonder what rompted Six to organise for him to be put into a home? Why hadn’t Baltar done that himself? With all his money, why hadn’t Baltar done the same thing, especially given his tendencies towards selfishness? Or, are we meant to wonder if, despite the relationship they had, that Baltar couldn’t bear to see his father in a home? That he wanted to provide for his father, presumably the way that his father couldn’t provide for him? Was that his one act of true unselfishness?
* Nice of them to fially explain the Chief’s whereabouts. His conversation with Helo really reminded me of their original interaction when they first re-met, and they discussed Athena and her loyalties. Interesting to see that Galen’s opinions about the Cylons have changed so radically in the last few episodes. Going from really empathising with Boomer (”If I’d known what I was, what we both were…”) to where he is now (”They’re not human…”) is quite a revelation. Especially when you consider the fact that when he talks about Boomer, you can hear him talking about himself as well. That he doesn’t trust himself, that he’s a machine, and that he is not human. It’s kind of heart-breaking.
* Adama’s scene with Kara was very touching. I didn’t believe any of it for a second, but it was very touching. It’s just like their throw-in scene in Maelstrom, where they haven’t spoken to each otherin episodes, and all of a sudden, he’s all ‘what d’you hear’. I find that Adama saying that she’s his daughter kind of came out of no-where for me. I mean, had he said it in season one, or two, great. But they’ve barely interacted really. The emotional resonance in that scene just fell flat for me. Nice sentiment and I LOVE Kara’s relationship with the Adama men, but I found that scene was just a little haphazard. As though they’re trying to tie up the loose threads, but not giving a whole lot of thread to go with it.
* I felt the same at the end scene, where Kara goes to Roslin’s side and holds her up, and they clasp hands. Lovely imagery, but not exactly believable, given the path their relationship went down. They haven’t spoken since the Hub was destroyed, (that I can recall). Kara spent oodles of time in the hospital with Sam, but we never saw her talk to Laura. If they’re going to have a scene with Laura and Kara bonding, then I really feel it needed something more to establish it.
Nice set up for the next episode. I thought they’d have more vounteers to go with Adama.
*I love that HotDog has really stepped up in the last few episodes. He took responsibility for Nicky, he didn’t shoot down the president in the mutiny, and he was fourth over the line to volunteer for the mission.
* Ishay. What the hell?! She has been antagonistic the last few episodes. She does NOT like the cylons, does not like that they get preferential treatment. She did NOT like Six being pregnant, and she had no sympathy whatsoever for Kara when she told her that Anders was brain-dead. What the hell was with her being about sixth over the line? I can’t believe that she would care about Hera! Made no sense whatsoever to me.
* Love the big group of marines that wander in to volunteer. After the mutiny, it’s surprisng just how many would choose to follow Adama, now that Zarek and Gaeta aren’t trying to cause chaos.
* Yay for Hoshi. It’s interesting that they set up Hoshi and Gaeata as lovers in the webisodes, but never once mentioned it during the mutiny, or even afterwards. It’s so interesting to see him stand with Adama. He’s about the only Pegasus officer that we’ve seen with any regularity. Too bad they didn’t expand on his character a little more. They threw it that he and Gaeata were together, but besides that betrayed look he threw Felix in the CIC during the mutiny, it was never even seen again. Why or why did they not give him some more emotional response?
* The co-ordinates they got from Sam? Did he say something coherent? Why did we miss this if he did? What question did Kara ask Sam to get him to give her these mythical co-ordinates? Did Kara’s calculations and turning the notes into mathematical equivalents have anything to do with the location? We saw more dots from Hera, and if the notes can be transformed into equations, and then into co-ordinates, where is Hera leading them? (Can we also take a moment to remember that last episode, Boomer said they were 13 jumps away from the colony…doesn’t Galactica have maybe four or five more…?)
* Yay for seeing Lee back in uniform, though without any pips. What the hell would his rank be nowadays anyway? He jumped from Captain to Commander, and then got demoted to Major. Poor kid. No one knows what to call him anymore. Also, double Yay for seeing Lee and Kara completing each others sentences. It’s been a loooong time since we’ve seen them working together like this, and it’s nice to see. (Does Lee being back in uniform mean that he has to cut his hair? Please??)
* Is it just me, or, at the very end, when they’re looking at the photographs, within the giant red cirlce, there’s the big black blob (colony?), and underneath it to the left, there’s a musical note. Am I just seeing things, or is it something else entirely?
Anyhoo, those are my thoughts for the week. Toodles!
March 14th, 2009 at 11:59 pm
I am frustrated because I feel there are too many questions and too much information which needs to be conveyed to us (as viewers) and to the characters (ex. Kara not Katee) to for closure. I believe there is need for some forced exposition.
That being said I think Baltar has had an epiphany (or will shortly), that the only way he can do a truly selfless act is if no one ever knows it was him. I don’t anticipate Baltar going on the volunteer mission. Everyone who has strong suspicions and prejudices is going, and I don’t think many if any will return. Baltar will instead stay behind and become an old man. He will write of the journey, as Pavlov’s God pointed out,
“He will be the new Pithia that the next cycle will read to get their information about this Exodus.”
He will tell the story of the Cylons, of a people who were misunderstood and imperfect (and most likely near extinct, perhaps a few survive, but not enough with out interbreeding into humanity). It will be full of love, and honesty, and simple truth stripped bare with out the excess of glory, honor or pride. I picture a montage of reveals, and questions answered with Gaius in his deep Aerelon accent narrating. He could sign it “Speaker for the dead”, as a pair of hands enter the screen they help him close the book, and place the pen at the top of the desk. He turns to face Caprica six, and says, “It’s finished.” Fade to black.
March 15th, 2009 at 12:12 am
Twenty minutes of flashbacks in the last three episodes seems weird.
Did anyone else notice that Baltar, after his dad said he changed his accent, said “I need this like a f***king hole in the head” and the f***king wasn’t the frak word? How did that get past the scifi censors?
March 15th, 2009 at 12:22 am
Ok, this is it. Its not at song, it’s not a road map. Its a string of genetic code is what Hera is writing. She is giving them what will unit the two cultures, cylon & human. It just so happen that when you put it on a music stanza it’s the notes to All Along the Watchtower. Cool Ain’t it. Tune in, Turn on, and Psyche Out. Mike Psyche
March 15th, 2009 at 1:45 am
When they showed Baltar’s white outfit in the limo did anyone else think of Apollo’s outfit in TOS when he was with the beings of light. He had a viper pilot outfit but his uniform turned white. It had similar buttons that stuck out like the outfit baltar had.
And where has Leoben been?
March 15th, 2009 at 2:50 am
I predict Boomer vs. Cavil action reminscent of Darth Vader vs. Emperor Palpatine
March 15th, 2009 at 3:43 am
Since Battlestar Galactica (the ship) is going to die, the series with its name should also. This does not mean that a series with another name can not start and continue where this one ends, right?
March 15th, 2009 at 3:54 am
Just watched the episode and . . . i don’t know what to say! (Other than I’m drunk. No, really . . . I watched the episode after a night at the bar, and two Guinness’ while watching the show twice in a row.)
First, I read the post 3 above from here and . . .
Jinx: You are 100% right! Baltar totally doesn’t say “fraking” there . . . big slip up! But I can understand why people on the censor board wouldn’t catch it. It’s so quick.
and to to continue . . .
Holy flashback! Little snippets of people’s lives before the attacks on the colonies. It only took THE ENTIRE RUN OF THE SHOW!! You think they could have used these earlier in the series to bring elements of characterization to light! Anyway, it all basically works.
One thing I noted . . . Laura is on the phone talking about her upcoming “blind date” . . . Shawn (or Sean) Ellison. Do you think this is the same person who killed her parents? And that leads her into the whole political arena? I mean, she says that Shawn (or Sean) Ellison sounds familiar . . . but I’ve never heard the name, and why else would they incorporate these baby shower/ bad news scenes then go on to mention him unless this Shawn (or Sean) Ellison has something to do with the car accident.
. . . was that the first scene between Adama and Hot Dog in the show? I’m not sure! Dad and son get a scene in the end! . . . Eddie is way better.
I’m a little disappointed that Baltar didn’t cross the line on the ground. I thought he may FINALLY do that one selfless act. But alas, ’twas not meant to be!
I have to go now . . . but I’ll comment again tomorrow when I can think clearer! Hope something I’ve written here now will be even slightly discussed!
(In the Opera House sequences, Baltar always ends up with Hera. Is that to be? THAT is why I wanted Gaius to cross the line! To fulfill HIS role in all of this chaos!)
March 15th, 2009 at 4:14 am
wow wat an awesome episode! well not awesome in terms of movign the plot forward very much, nor answering lots of questions but it really emphasizes what bsg is all about – its characters.
I really did enjoy all the flashbacks. i think atm theyre used to just show you how far all these characters have come from those days on Caprica. it mite play an important part in Daybreak pt2, but who knows.
Was it just me or was the bit when roslin stumbles around goin ‘excuse me, excuse me” trying to join adama really sweet? just the music and the entire scene….it was truly a moving sequence that really highlights Roslin’s character.
Goddammit baltar why dont you join them??!!
Anyways some theories:
- i think a lot of the main chars will die (such as adama and roslin) simply coz they have reached the end of their road and their time is up.
- i think they will end up rescuing Hera as if they fail, that would kinda make the last few eps’ buildup quite pointless. i think this is the end of the cycle and Hera will be basically the source of a new beginning. thats what makes THIS cycle so compelling that its worth being told – it is the last cycle.
- i do still believe that baltar will join them somehow, possibly as a sneak attack when all seems to be lost. i mean all this setup about him finally redeeming himself and nothing happens?? that will be boring
- i really dnt think the black hole is a time portal guys…srry but i remeber RDM mentioned at one point that he will NOT do time travel. He said that even tho bsg is a sci-fi show, most of the stuff is pretty reasonable. e.g. the battlestar doesnt have mad photon-lazer weapons and invisible shields and portals n such. its just a big, dirty but stable ship. RDM will not take the easy way out and use time-travel in there.
- really dont kno what will happen to everyone else though…
March 15th, 2009 at 6:38 am
Okay here’s a very simple theorie…
We all know that the gravitational effects of a black hole are slowing down the time in a zone near the black hole relative to the time flow outside of its proximity.
We know, that there is a nuked earth that probably needs a few thousand years of regeneration before it is prepared for recolonisation.
So where is the problem of the fleet jumping in proximity to the hole and then jumping out again from a distance so close, that outside a few thousand years have passed and earth is a habitable planet again?
March 15th, 2009 at 8:17 am
It just came to me. When they plug in Anders he said something about finding the write planet for kara thraces end. Maybe the fleet is Kobol this time. After rescuing Hera anders will jump them one last time. A new Planet. A new earth. Who lives there? Human Cylon Hybrids. The rest of the fleet with there new leader Baltar is human. They will travel until they found another habitabal planet. Equivalent to the twelve Colonies.
After a few thousand years the cycle begins again. Then the may be in search for caprica. Founding the Earth we’ve seen in the end.
Maybe this Idea is totally Insane.
It was just an Idea that came in too my mind a few minutes ago
March 15th, 2009 at 8:37 am
I am still standing by my notion that Baltar and kara are brother and sister… which I wrote on here about 3 episodes back.
The “Colony” certainly seems large… I wonder if galactica could fly into it? The space distortion of a jump would then rip the place apart. They could establish that the Galactica won’t survive another jump… but with the president dead and with a skeleton crew the last line on the series has Adama looking teary eyed and saying his final word. “Jump.”
The show could then close with a misty view of a river… where Adama looks up from a ship to see Rosalin waiting for him by her cabin.
March 15th, 2009 at 9:19 am
Why was Tyrol in the brig? I didnt quite get that. Was it because he let boomer walk by him with hera in the hanger?
March 15th, 2009 at 9:43 am
@centurion005:
Tyrol was in the brig because he turned out the lights, hit an 8 over the head with a wrench and knocked her out, broke into the brig, replaced Boomer with the knocked-out 8, and put Boomer on a raptor. Hera was in the footlocker he was helping Boomer drag onto the raptor, but he didn’t know it. In short, he helped a prisoner escape and facilitated the abduction of Hera.
March 15th, 2009 at 10:11 am
“Go back where you came from! GO!”
First line in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LGw45qD6a8
We have now heard every one of those teaser lines used in the beginning of the season and I always thought that this was the most profound and had the most possibilities. I had been hoping that this was the line of someone remaining on Earth, but as of Daybreak 1, we have yet to hear this line or figure out who’s voice it is.
I’m almost 100% sure now that it’s Helo’s which, if used in Daybreak 2, could have some profound meanings too. He has been a very underused character these last 9 episodes and it would be nice to see this trigger something extraordinary for him to be in the middle of.
My gut feeling is that this line may come in when Boomer decides to redeem herself and brings Hera to the attacking Colonials. And for this, Helo decides to let her go.
I’m hoping it’s something more than that though. Maybe something to do with Kara. The 2 have them have an admitted though unestablished history. And it’s never been made 100% clear about Helo’s past or even his religious tendencies (although a well-toned sense of fairness and morality) since there seems to be no conflict between his (assumed) polytheism and Athena’s monotheism. I’m hoping that we will finally see this come out when Kara’s true nature, or even God’s, comes to light and he is terrified of it, threatening it with “”Go back where you came from! GO!”
March 15th, 2009 at 10:31 am
Random thought… What if Kara is a Lord of Kobol? Or direct descendant of one?
March 15th, 2009 at 11:27 am
My guess is that the lok are demons(extra dimensional aliens) who are at war with the beings of light(angels) and there using the human/cylon war to somehow benefit there own.They could have pretend to be gods to the humans and shown them there almost magical technology.That would fallow clarks third law that “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic”. Mabey the LOK live inside that black hole sort of how the prophets from ST:DS9 lived inside the wormhole.I rewatched the the last couple of episodes and I must have just missed that part were the chief knocked out 8.
March 15th, 2009 at 11:54 am
only thing to say about the episode isOMFG…
good to see the 4 and 5.
earlyer I sayed we needed to learn the name of the tatooed pilot. but if he’s dead(hot-dogs photos) we probably never know. anyone know when he died?
March 15th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
Forget what i just said.
i was watching the episode again and he was there when hot-dog talks to the pilots about the rescuemission. so he’s alive and on the photo?
March 15th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
I think that the flashbacks had two important purposes:
1)Because the end is near, I just think that the bright light, was almost heavenly in the flashbacks, makes it seem like visions one sees as one is dying. We are seeing our characters who are dying, maybe not physically, but emotionally, because who they are at this moment will be over at the end. As Head 6 says: the last chapter of humanity is now. I loved it–oh, and I believe the bird is the death of Zak, they just had not gotten the news yet. It would explain all the guilt, and feelings between Lee and Kara when we meet them.
It broke my heart to see how much Lee loved his brother, and Roslin, I was shocked by the death of her family–made worse by the baby shower they had the night before for her sister. To see kara so happy–I loved see her happy for once, just once.
2)I think the moments we saw for Laura–showed the tipping point –ie. we saw her last brief moments w/her beloved sisters, before they died, and she went to the other side–the one we know so well. I had no idea she was so alone. I believe the moments we saw of the other characters were like that as well they were all on the tipping point or precipice of the moments that changed their lives forever.
Laura: the death of her family
Kara/Lee/Zak: the death of Zak
Baltar: in prime position to be manipulated by Caprica 6–brilliant on her part, and so cylon.
Adama: I don’t think that was the decommissioning of the Battlestar, I think it was something else–I really think it was 2 years prior to the attacks, I don’t know what it was but , who knows.
Thoughts?
A
March 15th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
There is no way that the Lords of Kobal are alien/demons in any way. Not that it’s a bad idea (the LOK vs. BOL). But Edward James Olmos once said that he’d walk from the show the minute they introduced aliens. So I don’t think Ron would go back on that promise to him.
Besides, the show has always been more interested in human relations and our own personal weaknesses, and how they effect the world around us. For example, Baltar’s weaknesses lead to the destruction of the colonies, endangered the fleet, allowed for the New Caprica debauchal and much more. Tyral’s weaknesses (whether human or cylon) allowed Kallie to be killed, Hera to be abducted. And the list could continue. No one is safe from this scrutiny.
One thing I’ve really noted about this season (especially these last 10 episodes) is that the writers have quite openly moved away from all “heroic” or “epic” plot lines. The episodes are all attached to the main plot line, but all of them have been about people and people’s choices. Even the action-packed mutiny wasn’t an action flick (though it was the most action we’ve seen in a long time). I mean, do you remember when Battlestar was about the battles? The cat and mouse games in the first season (oh, and Starbuck flying the frakin’ raider?! The fist fight on Caprica between Six and Starbuck?) Remember the confrontation with the Pegasus in the second season? The shear amazement you felt when Galactica plunged into orbit on New Caprica, launching vipers and jumping out in the third? That hasn’t been the storytelling style at all this season. So the ending will certainly be (though filled with crazy space battles, which I fraking MISS) driven by dialogue and character.
The denouement of this story will undoubtably involve personal choices, not god-like/alien intervention. I mean . . . the Lords of Kobal are all Greek gods, right? Zeus, Athena, Hera, Apollo, Poseidon. And we all know that the Greeks invented those gods as moral and ethical examples. The ancestors of our friends in the fleet probably did the same thing. If they aren’t real in our world, why would they be real in theirs?
I’m nervous now about the ending of this series. I really feel that somewhere along the way Ron and co. became too interested in the “reality” and lost the “heroic/epic” feel of the series. It’s still the best written series on TV (especially since Lost became a mess too) but the original heart of the show beats much quieter. I remember watching episodes in season one and two and three and literally jumping out of my seat and cheering, and sometimes crying (yes, I’m a dude and I cry, it’s called empathy). That hasn’t happened this season. I’ve enjoyed the season intellectually, but it just isn’t as visceral as it was in the previous seasons.
But I still love the show and will be VERY sad when it’s over. (Though they really should have made this episode two 2 hour shows).
March 15th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
mind blowing episode right enough but OMG i cant beleive there will be no more Battlestar Galactica after next Friday !! .. I cant even remember a time when there wasnt an episode to look forward too !! ..
oh well .. i suppose all good things come to an end .. just gotta deal with it an move on .. i just hope to the motherfrackin gods that that the ending doesnt dissapoint me .. i swear that would be unbearable
anyway does can anyone tell me how long the final episode is ? ive tried looking everywhere but all i got was 3 hrs for both Daybreak 1 and 2 .. how long is 2 since 1 was a standard unsatisfying 40 mins ?
March 15th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
I just have one thing to say…
fraking EPIC.
March 15th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
oscar, 2 hours with commercials starting one hour before usual next friday. 9 here in pacific time.
March 15th, 2009 at 3:37 pm
Thats why there gonna reveal it at the very last episode! Plus if the angels arnt human or cylon then there actual supernatural beings that exist out in another dimension/plain of existence. The scientific term for these beings would be extra dimensional aliens. And theve been around since the beginning of the show.And on Kobol there was evidence of advance tech in the tomb of athena wich was some type of holodeck.So jay howl what you said is sorta an oxymoron.
March 15th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
One other thing. A reason why it cant possibly be the future is that ellen said that the concept of a single God was a centurion concept.If bsg is in the future than shouldnt she have said that the centurions took the peoples of Earth concept of a single God and made it there own?
March 15th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
Was this the first time we got to see the Admiral and HotDog (father and son in real life) share a scene? Its about time.
Also, Ive got a feeling the ending of BSG will heavily parallel the ending of DS9 in structure. In case you didn’t watch that show, the whole arc for its final seasons was the war with the dominion, and in the series finale the huge epic battle was done by the first hour, which left a lot of time to tie up loose ends and have some sentimental ‘everyone in the same room’ scenes.
I’m hoping that’s whats going to happen here.. but I cant help but think I’m going to be disappointed.
March 15th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
@Centurion005: I really enjoy reading your posts. You’ve articulated many thoughts on this thread that I have shared: Reagan’s Challenger speech reference, your nod to Einstein’s quote on WW IV [sic], the parallel with Aslan and Baltar as a – possible – allegorical Jesus.
This is our final week to theorize and speculate on the “truth” behind the BSG universe…
I am sticking by my theory that I made in my FIRST BSGCast post in REVISIT: BSGCast’s “Earth Explored” on 07/07/2008. I made the following predictions and am reasonably confident they will play out in the finale:
1. No time travel. RDM will steer clear of any direct parallels with any Trek storyline – especially time travel – as it is counter to a “naturalistic” science fiction perspective.
2. Time will play a role in the finale (and the “truth”). It will be revealed to the viewer that the events in BSG took place thousands of years ago in “our” Earth’s pre-history. In my first post I explained in some detail why “our” Earth’s future was not a likely possibility.
3. The “Earth” founded by the Thirteenth Tribe is NOT “our” Earth. Despite the intentional ambiguity of the gas giant (which may or may not have been Jupiter) seen in “Islanded in a Stream of Stars”, I still believe “our” Earth will be part of the cycle of eternal recurrence within the BSG universe. I speculated on the possibility that the Thirteenth Tribe may have FAILED in their quest to locate “our” Earth and were subsequently forced to settle on another planet. In the end, the survivors of the climactic battle between “good and evil” will be lead to our Earth by Hera’s “stream of stars” drawing – either literally or through some new revelation made by Kara and the Anders Hybrid (a.k.a. “Anderstar Galactisam”) – and we will get a clear shot of “our” continents from space to confirm the planet as our own when they enter orbit.
I loved the flashbacks in “Daybreak, Part I” and am excited to see how RDM will weave all of the pieces together into the grand finale.
I thought that Baltar’s flashbacks greatly heightened his selfishness and became a complete indictment of his personal motivations when Lee attacked his character. However, I think the intent of that scene was to further set up Baltar’s transformation and redemption, but I doubt he will die as a martyr. I think the role of self-sacrificing martyr will be saved for Boomer who will die during Hera’s rescue from Cavil’s Colony of Doom.
I believe the One True God loves Baltar just the way he is and he will be spared from death (though maybe not some pain and suffering). Somehow, I think Baltar’s innumerable faults will be preserved – and passed on – to his progeny. That’s why we – as a species – are so horribly flawed – Baltar is the Father of the Human Race (and Caprica Six is our Mother). That will be the ultimate “truth”.
March 15th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
THIS
EPISODE
SUCKED
BIG TIME
You know, I feel like the LAST Season should have been awesome, made up for season 3.
But I have been super disappointed. Even if the last episode is good, it won’t make up for season 4 being a total let-down.
The Pilot got me hooked. Season 1 and 2 were great.
But overall FRAK this show, I’ll be selling all 4 seasons on ebay. Not worth keeping or sharing.
Waste of time.
I hope they re-imagine BSG again, make a theater movie of BSG, and re-create it with action and suspense. And more chrome toasters. And NO skin jobs.
March 15th, 2009 at 5:18 pm
So Baltar is Adam and Six is Eve? Im still wondering and hoping that the one God is the judeo/christian God. I still believe that the cylons god, at least the newer cylons god, is the devil (aka ibis) who tricked the cylons into believing that they needed to finish off humanity.I bet that the original centurions were against this so cavil locked them all up in the colony.Then at the end the old centurions will be fighting against cavils on the side of the humans.
Thanks for the comment tiberius. As you can tell by reading my posts I started out as a trekkie before BSG. So all the technobable is something that im into.
March 15th, 2009 at 5:18 pm
Where_are_the_centurions?! Frak you.
March 15th, 2009 at 5:23 pm
OK just a quick one since I have only watched it once so far.
I think Adamas flash back reminded him what he lost in his son. That is allowing him to look at it as a father rather than an admiral. The old man is loosing everything that is dear to him, his woman, his ship, his people, Earth so he has nothing to loose. He is doing one selfless act to help one little girl and her parents to let him, Roslyn, and the Galactica go out with a bane and in a blaze of glory.
As for Baltar, Yes if he had crossed the line it would have been a real shocker and against his nature but I do think the writers have a Gods plan for him. He is in a way of thinking a profit of God and leading the people to there salvation. I think he will be a big player on Friday.
I really want to know the answer to all the head people and Starbuck. If these are not answered next week I will be really upset with things. I know we only have 2 hours to finish up the story line and very few answers have been given to us yet. That is not a lot of time to hit everything. I can’t help but feel we will be disappointed by the ending. I know we are going to see a huge fight and some serious CG but other than that I am lost unless this is going to lead up to TOS Battlestar. Let me try to remember the words said in TOS. “The Cylons were made by another race and they rebelled against them killing them all off, now they want to kill all sentient life.” (Apollo explaining to Boxy about the Cylons.)
At any rate this will be interesting.
March 15th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
Where_are_the_centurions?! Is probably either really realy stupid and doesnt appreciate good television and how its not always about stuff blowing up or hes just some 11 year old with ADD who gets bored way too easily.
March 15th, 2009 at 5:53 pm
Athena, check out my earlier post. I agree that Adama’s flashback is somewhat ambiguous. I’m guessing that it might have something to do with the Valkyrie incident, which set Adama on course to becoming the commander of Galactica. That said, there’s very little to work with. I hope we find out next week.
March 15th, 2009 at 7:15 pm
I knew a change-of-heart for Adama was coming, and wondered what….Hera’s picture on the memorial wall was perfect.
Of course Baltar is either going to go with Galactica or come in at the last moment on another ship to join the attack…most likely the latter.
I think Sam’s hybrid tie-in with Galactica will do more than stop attacks against Galactica in the coming battle…I think he may be able to infiltrate control of Cavil’s entire ‘fleet’ with his abilities…
I am curious about what Tahmoh Pennikett said in a recent interview…that they had Helo go one way and he convinced the writers to make the character go the other way….mightly curious.
I liked the way Caprica looked at Gaius after she crossed the red line, still hoping he’d be a better man.
Loved the flashbacks. Loved them.
I have always thought almost all of the reason Kara couldn’t commit to Lee was because of Zak. That and she just couldn’t dump Sam, but mostly it was a matter of how she had killed Zak, tried to replace him in terms of being a child-substitute for Adama and just couldn’t dishonour Zak by marrying Lee. The flashback clearly reminded us of how much she loved Zak.
Part of Lee’s drunken bird scene could have been over the blonde young woman (Black Market) that he dumped before the attack, seeing Zak so happy, Zak’s impending death too….bird in the house symbolizes death for sure.
RDM saying the ending won’t be what we expect….I can’t imagine what he means by that…
March 15th, 2009 at 8:08 pm
@Centurion005: Yep, I’m an old school Trekker as well, though 4 seasons of BSG “rehab” has altered my perspective on SciFi in general and Star Trek in particular. I guess the good news is that BSG has helped me to become more open minded toward JJ Abrams’ upcoming re-imagined Star Trek “prequel” movie. I thought we were done rewriting Star Trek’s past after “Enterprise” was cancelled, but moving away from “Root Beer” Trek may be a welcome change after all.
March 15th, 2009 at 8:11 pm
I seem to remember Baltar performing a selfless act and the writers made a point of it.
In the episode where Baltar is ambushed in the latrine, he and Head 6 have a poignant discussion when the razor blade is at his neck and he offers his life to save the boy’s. And the boy is saved because Head 6 is so impressed w/Baltar’s willingness to be sacrificed.
It’s like Gaeta’s lie in the courtroom about what really went on with Baltar when the execution list was drawn up in Season 3. Baltar literally had a gun pointed at his head.
And for that matter the betrayal of the defence main frame in the Mini Series was conned out of Baltar by Caprica 6. He certainly had no idea of any Cylon attack plan – at least not consciously.
He was admittedly corrupt knowing she would use some of the classified info for her defense contractor ‘employers’. Not the same thing as selling out the human race though.
I think Baltar NOT crossing the red line was arguably a selfless act: There it was – redemption – literally right in front of his nose and he resisted, I believe, for the good of his followers and the population of people he has come to represent.
All he had to do was move 2 feet in front of him and all of those whom he continually sought approval, namely Roslyn, and now Lee, would be witness to it.
And in a certain kind of ritualistic style no less in a hangar filled with survivors making a life and death choice and a ‘blood’ (as noted earlier) red line!
Yet, Baltar remains with his people and forfeits the approval of his peers and redemption.
However, it seems he is now seeking approval and redemption from a higher power hence his decision to remain ‘port’ side.
On the subject of Baltar, I loved the conversations between him and Lee. That is a tension I forgot that really needed to be dealt with or at least revisited in some way. And it was!
I also liked and appreciated the tone of the soundtrack having changed to something more fitting of an actual film/movie. This was apparent from the beginning together with the new lean opening – very cinematic.
I hope the remaining 90 minute ‘film’ continues even more so in this direction.
Speaking of which, the Direction (Michael Aymer?) is top rate in my book. I especially loved the homage to Stanley Kubrick & 2001: A Space Odyssey at the beginning.
ok, I’m done.
March 15th, 2009 at 8:39 pm
Jay Howl –
Guess I shouldn’t be surprised. After 4 seasons of “Frak this!” and “Frak that!” it was inevitable someone would eventually drop the actual F-bomb. Most people probably didn’t notice because it was very appropriate to the scene, and they auto-translated it into “fraking” in their heads.
Baltar’s dad was funny… But I do think Baltar would have been well within his rights to kill that obnoxious old bastard out into the street!
March 15th, 2009 at 9:00 pm
I wonder how much of a delay exists in these postings. I have 8:59 PM Central Time right now.
My longer posts seem to take far longer to appear on this site than a much shorter post like this one.
March 15th, 2009 at 9:29 pm
Did anyone else find boomer’s waivering to be typical flip-flopping 8 model? I mean she already stole the kid, and now I’m afraid we’re getting a set up where she’s gonna turn around and help out. Way too easy, please don’t do it RDM.
Also, as noble as it is Caprica Six volunteered to go on the suicide mission what, exactly, will she contribute besides a smokin bod’ and the ability to always be steadfast in her convictions until somebody changes her mind?
When I turned on this ep, all ready with my snacks, I was looking forward to some on-screen dynamite. The flashbacks, while touching (Anders physical perfection admission and Baltar’s dad bit were very good, I have to say) I was yelling to myself, “I paid $1.99 for no commercials! no commercials!” I’ll watch Caprica in its due time, right now give me frakking BSG. The cops at the door? Sitting Roslyn down? I liked it better on NYPD Blue and about a million other cop shows I could be watching but choose not to because I’d rather be watching the best space opera of all time.
Is there any significance to the scene with Helo and Athena, with Athena too destroyed to hope? That was very dark, there is a permanent change in her. I hope they get back together.
Why do we specifically see Doc Coddle turned back? the only immediate explanation is they want to give doc’s character a good scene to show he’s one of the very best good guys. It is fun to think about the what-ifs if this is not the reason we saw that scene.
On a similar note, I loved the scene with Hotdog and the Admiral at the beginning. Not because it was a great scene, but because I am sure Edward James Olmos walked into RDM’s office and said, “The show is ending, give my son some face time.” Same deal when Hotdog gets clear focus crossing the red line to the Heroes side. Not that I don’t love Hotdog; after his, “How many dead chicks are out there?” line he can do no wrong.
Chief is freed and joins the Heroes. Is he going to strangle Boomer? Also, Tory still owes us a good violent death for murdering Cally, that better not get swepted under the rug. Please Chief, we already know you are handy with a wrench, or, Lords of Kobol hear my prayer, a good ol’ fashioned airlocking.
Man do we need an origin story for the Colony, crazy crab looking thing. Also there was a post much earlier musing if the Centurians clanked out and crossed over to the Heroes side how great that would be. Agreed. The Centurians need to come back in here in a big way; they led the uprising, they came to know a single true loving God, they made the deal with the FF, and to present they are still pawns. I don’t think that can stand. I don’t want to see them go genocidal, but show up and take part and get some respect.
Not that this isn’t going to get resolved in the finale, but now that Galactica’s gutted, where are the Raptors and Vipers going to be? Sprinkled around the fleet I guess. Beyond that, where is the military equipment nut-and-bolts going to be, like the ammunitions machines and missile assembly, jazz like that? Very dangerous the power a ships captain would immediately have if they control that. Likewise with the fighter spacecraft: they dock and live with you, so they gotta be loyal too. As far as the fleet is concerned, there really isn’t a plan, there’s just reality: Galactica is dead, nothing we can do, strip it and keep clinging to life.
Gods I hope this ends well. I’ve got my gray sleeveless shirt and my black undershirt (to be worn over) ready for this Friday to watch it all in style.
Save their souls Baltar. Save your own.
March 15th, 2009 at 10:37 pm
JUPITER
JUPITER
JUPITer
its only fitting as the high gravity gateway/ jumpgate to some otherplace,,, but thats not what you people need/ or want/ so Carry On
I am not going to read this post because I am one week behind, since I watch bsg
JUPITER
JUPITER
JUPITER….
NO One ever sees the fact that Jupiter, jupitar , or what ever it is, is right in the middle!!!
boomer and herra stop near Jupiter,,,,,,,,,EARTH`s Jupiter , real earth
JUPITER is the half way point between the cylonians ( humans and the other cylons) and the other cylons
Cavil is still the devil (Patrick McAnee) and Adama the leader ( not savior),,,,,,
And now we have Herra as Dr. Z
You Nerds, ( i am one of them) sould get out and look, LOOK at the skies above
JSFff of the net etc,,
but here is my paste from last weeks episode,,,
March 15th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
cylonians= cy-lone-E-Ans
March 15th, 2009 at 11:33 pm
centurion005 Says: “Frak you.” …. “Where_are_the_centurions?! Is probably either really realy stupid and doesnt appreciate good television and how its not always about stuff blowing up or hes just some 11 year old with ADD who gets bored way too easily.”
REAL mature, attack someone who doesn’t watch the show as religiously as you do and does not share the same opinions.
Like I said, the pilot got me hooked (good story), the story of season 1 and 2 were also very good (not always action).
Some parts of season 3 were good, like with Baltar’s trial.
I appreciate a good story outside of action. BUT YOU just appreciate drama and soap operas.
You like disfunctional people with over-dramatic lives not capable of reason because you have the same problems.
Even the guy who plays SaulTigh said he didn’t like what they were doing to his character.
The last season doesn’t even have a good story. I used to love this show but now I hate how it is turning out.
Everyone I know who watches this show agrees with me. EXCEPT those who take the show too seriously (centurion005).
I like learning more about the characters, but they crammed season 4 with half-baked ideas.
Sure I like action and suspence more but so what? If you don’t like “stuff blowing up” You will probably hate the season finale.
I really like what someone wrote at Sci-Fi:
sisterchef wrote:
“Never, in all four years, have I had anything negative to say about BSG…but I thought tonight was, for the most part, just killed time. Nothing happened that we did not know was going to happen or that was in any way enlightening. I will take it back of next week’s ending ties back to tonight in some way that makes it worth while and connected.”
Think about it. Each episode was like a good story. But these last episodes are missing what made this show great. A good story. Also where are the centurions? I have to set a frakking toaster machine next to my TV just so I can remember what this show is about.
March 16th, 2009 at 12:42 am
Does anyone else think something is WAY weird with the whole run of this show. Since episode one it’s been push push push with these great television defining episodes, and then the season 4.5 started and it was decent episodes, finally bringing light to SO many unanswered questions and so many issues.
THEN!
All of a sudden, since No Exit, it’s been these very flat episodes. I mean they are all good episodes, and the actors are just PHENOMENAL this season, above all, but I really feel like it has plateau-ed. These do not feel like the final episodes. It’s almost like next week they are gonna pop out and be like HAHA Just kidding, we actually have a whole season 5 for you! (Which, I mean would be half great and half dick of the show lol).
I mean HOW much information do they plan on shoving down our throats next week. With two hours to not only tie up a pretty big plot line of getting Hera and defeating the Cavil Cylons, but I mean SO many questions left, completely unrelated to the final battle.
Are they going to be leaving the answers to the The Plan or Caprica: The TV Show?
I’m very confused as to what is happening. Which is also kind of the excitement. i wouldn’t be surprised if these past episodes where intentionally dead ones, in order to better throw people off the curve as to what will happen. Or maybe I’m just wishfully thinking.
-Anthony
March 16th, 2009 at 12:53 am
I wanted to connect two scenes together that I believe will have great significance in the finale.
The first is the scene in “Deadlock” when Roslin admits to Caprica Six that she doesn’t know her name.
Roslin: Caprica! Oh, that’s funny, I don’t…I don’t think I’ve never called you by a name before.
Caprica: I think you’ve probably called me some names.
The second, is the scene in “Daybreak, Part I”, when Baltar makes the same admission during the flashback in the limo on Caprica City – before the fall.
Caprica: I’ll drink to that, Doctor.
Baltar: You can um…you can call me Gaius, actually, if you want. This is crazy, but I’ve actually forgotten your name.
The point has now been made twice in these final episodes that Caprica’s real name is unknown to us. I think the finale will reveal her name and with it, her true identity and connection to Baltar. What started as just some fun, wild speculation for me, is now seeming to gain just a pinch of validity.
Toward the end of “Daybreak, Part I”, Baltar is again reminded of his pivotal role in Humanity’s eminent fate:
Caprica: She’s right, Gaius. The end times are approaching. Humanity’s final chapter is about to be written and you – you – will be its author. (hmmm, could author = father?)
While we know that RDM “inherited” the name Baltar from Glen A. Larson’s original adaptation, the name Gaius was added for the re-imagined series and I suspect is the key to understanding his true destiny.
The name Gaius is the masculine version of the name Gaia which means Earth.
This meaning is derived from the ancient Greek word “Gaia” (a primal Greek goddess personifying the Earth), and is further supported by the ancient Roman vow of marriage:
“Ubi tu Gaius at ego Gaia.”
This is translated directly as: “Where you [will be] Gaius, likewise I [will be] Gaia.” By the inclusion of BOTH Gaius and Gaia in the vow, the two names could simply be identified as “man” and “woman”. However, it is very interesting to note that this was an archaic, rural wedding vow traditionally used by Roman FARMERS (sound familiar?) who, in their vernacular, would have translated these names as “Man of the Earth” and “Woman of the Earth”.
All of a sudden, Baltar’s agrarian roots make perfect sense. I believe this point was emphasized by the scene with Baltar’s father who specifically makes reference to Baltar’s true farming upbringing. Caprica also helps Baltar’s father get back to his farming roots which further connects her to Baltar and his agrarian past. It also potentially ties Baltar and Caprica together as man and woman – of the Earth.
BTW, the Roman equivalent of Gaia is Terra. It would be funny if we learn that Caprica’s name is Terri or Teresa or some other variant of Terra. Anyway…
It’s starting to sound more and more like Baltar and Caprica = Adam and Eve.
Maybe we are really Cybrids after all…we’ll know the truth – or at least some of it – on Friday!
March 16th, 2009 at 3:18 am
Perhaps Adama was talking to his lawyer before the divorce..
“Its only an hour”… meaning 1 hour in court?
I’m sure all will be told in the finale.
Oh wait, no I’m not.
March 16th, 2009 at 3:48 am
Hey, if anyone wants to kill a little time while waiting for the BSGast for “Daybreak, Part 1″, check out my MegaCon video that I posted: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7EAWBj8SCo
March 16th, 2009 at 3:59 am
I have another question: if the flashbacks were meant to be two years before the fall of Caprica (which we assume, because Zak is still alive, and “Two years after Zak’s death…Galactica was …destined to be converted into a museum ship.” (wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Adama
Why did Baltar, having known Six for TWO years, NEVER know her name. He was working with her on top secret high-level clearance stuff, not to mention all the frakking, and he never found out her name? We see her dodge the question in the flashbacks, but if it has been two years…how do you have a relationship with someone on a personal and professional basis and NEVER find out their name? Seriously!
Or, should we cut him some slack and assume that the flashbacks weren’t happening concurrently? Thoughts?
March 16th, 2009 at 5:09 am
i dont know if anyone has said it but….
Galactica is the dieing leader
not roselyn
it has lead the fleet since the start no matter who was in charge
March 16th, 2009 at 6:58 am
Skin Jobs + Humans = Cybrids …So….., How about this:
Cybrids can regenerate without the aid of “Resurrection Technology”.
Huh?? Huh??
March 16th, 2009 at 7:29 am
@ Tiberius 1111
Great post and good research/wk. I think you’re defo on to something.
That Baltar is destined to go from super tech sci-boffin to farmer.
I for one would appreciate that message politically speaking. I believe these Earth times we live in now are doomed by tech. and that the American Indians native peoples of the earth were best adapted for harmony and longevity.
Nevertheless, great post!
March 16th, 2009 at 8:18 am
Wow, its some great theories in this weeks postings.
I disagree with a few things many posted though.
The way I interpreted the things Anders was talking about sounded like military tactics. I think Anders was a military tactician when he was on Earth. Thus foreshadowing his handling of Galactica in the Final Fight to come.
I think Roselin is Hera from the last cycle. Either reincarnated, a direct descendant, or whatever.
Last but not least, I think Baltar’s dad was a Cylon, perhaps Daniel, or a FF from the previous cycle. That would explain Baltar and why Six was so interested in the old man. And of coarse she didn’t really find him a new retirement home, she got him a warm Cylon tub on the Colony.
March 16th, 2009 at 8:22 am
Kaine241984, in precisely which episode did the Galactica having a vision of serpents numbering two and ten?
You know, the vision required to be the prophesied leader of humanity. Like the one that Roslin had. Also I don’t think falling apart due to sustained heavy use without chance of repair qualifies as a ‘wasting disease’ quite to the extant that inoperable breast and lymphatic cancer does.
I’m really curious about what Adama was doing in the flashback. He wasn’t wearing his uniform and it seemed like he was being strongarmed into doing something that was beneath him. Maybe we’ll never know and it was just there to show that if not for the Cylon attack, his proud military career would have ended with some crappy civilian desk job.
March 16th, 2009 at 8:44 am
GIVE ME ANOTHER SHOUT-OUT OR IM SERIOUSLY GONNA HURT MYSELF MmmK you DO THAT . AND**** I HAVE ADAMA TAT ON MY BACK IT COVERS MY ENTIRE BACK I justDONT have a picture of it but i do!! AND BTW I AM GARENTEE YOUR BIGGEST FAN ,,, PLZ do what i say And i assure you i wont hurt myself MAUAHAHAHA
March 16th, 2009 at 9:16 am
I MUST start off by commending the work of the poster some ten posters above myself, and that is Tiberius, that is an epic amount of factual research which on closer inspection does tie into the shows progression, and where it’s been in the past, perfectly. Gaius Baltar is the pivotal figure in this garbled mess in some form and I’m sure his agricultural heritage, and all the subtle word play, pointed out in Tiberius’ clinically informative post will pan out.
I just want to discuss the episode briefly…I’ve never been one for posting theories on here, I think the theorising on the whole takes away attention from absorbing the information that is, not that may be, involved in the episode at hand. Tiberius is but one of the few exceptions to the rule, but on the whole the theories posted are so far fetched that on occasion you can be forgiven for thinking that the posters to these incorrect theories were watching an entirely different program.
On to the episode…I completely understand the purpose of these flash backs. The flash backs pertained to the major players within our endgame: Lee, Starbuck, Roslin, Adama, Anders, Six and Baltar. These seven characters will have the most influence in the feature length climax., and all of our flashbacks somehow pertained to destinies that await all of our protagonists. In Lee’s case we see him in the President adopting the role of full-on President, orchestrating the disembouling of Galactica, while in the episodes final moments we see him in his full military attire that he hasn’t worn since the end of Season 3. In his flashback it shows two key things in his apartment, the Viper on the table and the pigeon (bird) fluttering around within. Birds. Lee’s always combatted with birds…he was and is a more than capable Viper pilot, but has always felt that his military career (undoubtedly pressured upon him) has distracted and stopped him from being that which it is he wanted to be all along. With Baltar we see the conflict between his past and his future, and that he is somewhere stuck in the present thinking about one, waiting for the other. We see the conflict within him that is his heritage, and how he has always viewed it as a burden (see “Dirty Hands”) as something that has held him back, and we see the very powerful scenes with him and his father back on Caprica, as his fathers degrading mental state leads to heated arguments that are mirrored in the Galactican present.
I understand the points and purposes of these juxtaposed flashbacks (or “Frakbacks” depending on your view of the episode) but I fail to see why now. They want to set up characters for the final push, to provide resolution to their story arcs and give us all a justified sense of fulfillment and completion…but again why now? Moore has had the best part of four series to cement these characters and their traits within the minds of his audience…even with all the shifting and changes in plots etc, nothing much has changed in our protagonists that we desperately need a flashback episode (and while this wasn’t a fully fledged flashback episode in the “looking back on the series sense – this was the next worse thing). We’ll be getting the resolutions to these flashback sequences in the second installment of the episode, of this i’m sure, we’ll see what Adama was being asked/told to do/organise, we’ll see the inevitable outcome between Starbuck and Zak, Roslin going on the campaign trail and Baltar interacting more with Caprica-Six, but why? If their mere presence is to simply be juxtapositioning the then and the now, then it is completely pointless. Even IF there is some justification for this, that there is some revelation at the end of Daybreak which shows Baltar as a cybrid or explaining what on earth it is Starbuck is…the fact that people are using the phrase “Lost-esque” to describe this episode shows that Galactica has become something that none of us expected, or wanted.
I’m a fan of the show, avid in the sense that I will watch it religiously every week, but not avidly in the sense that I won’t criticise it when it needs to be. I don’t quite know what’s happened to Battlestar Galactica, this half of season 4 started with more questions being put to the viewing public, but a solid revelation in Ellen Tigh being the last of the Final Five…we then have the mutiny which provided some intense action packed sequences and resolved our Zarek/Gaeta problems but since then we’ve had confused writing, and at times incredibly cheesily written storylines.
The entire episode of “Deadlock” was less SPACE OPERA and more SPACE SOAP OPERA, with writing that would have upset even the most ardent fan of Dallas. Michael Hogan has openly decried what the writers have done to his character, and the mythos and aura that surrounding those Final Five characters is all but non-existent. In “Daybreak Part One”, Ellen Tigh and Tory Foster are walking through the corridors of Galactica, as Tigh describes Adama’s offer to her. Foster claims that the idea is pretty much nonsensical, that she doesn’t wish to participate and is angered that Ellen Tigh is now talking “on behalf” of the Final Five. Ellen then states that Tory will join the other Final Five members in Adama’s plan because she has “always hated being alone”…Well frak me, how in THE frak are we supposed to know that? It’s character development and it’s most tedious and most ridiculous…not only is the dialogue so woefully done it could have originated from one of the Star Wars prequel trilogy, but why say something like that. Not long before this, Tory has kiled, marched proudly over to the Cylon basestar to take her place among “her people” and then we get this sniveling wreck of an individual who has no resemblance NOR any link to the character from not put five episodes previous. I don’t mind them changing a character but HOW has this change taken place? They haven’t bothered, they haven’t cared because they don’t know. I’ve never liked Tory as a character but if you’re going to change her, then let’s see some explanation for it, especially if you’re going to waste an entire episode all but exemplefying what we already know about our major characters anyway.
I think what sums this half of season 4 up more than any other moment is when Roslin is aboard the basestar during “Blood On The Scales” saying she wishes to go back for William Adama and save Galactica…Tory claims that the Cylons have voted and they’ve decided they’re going to run away…Roslin retorts by saying “as one of the members of the final five I was expecting a more enlightened approach”, and that’s been this series all over. Moore builds up the mystique around the Final Five, yes we’ve learnt about their influence in creating Cylons and such in subsequent episodes, he’s creating this unknown quality about the Final Five that they’re going to be more than the current crop of Cylons we already have in our midst, and that’s the enlightened view on life they have? Run away? I understand by showing us this side of them, it emphasises the, they’re as human as we are philosophy…but it’s just disappointing. It’s the Battlestar equivalent of despelling the myth of “the force” and placing it all on bacteria.
I await next weeks episode and conclusion to the series as a whole, and I’m sure there’ll be one more revolution…that things will be tied up one way or the other and that Baltar will certainly have one more ace to play in this game yet…it’s sad the series is coming to a climax, but it’s even more depressing that even if they wanted to continue into a fifth series, because of how they’ve treated the characters and story, it wouldn’t work. This is what the show’s become…a comparison to “Lost”.
March 16th, 2009 at 9:20 am
Additional: Sorry about the spelling, grammatical and continuity errors above, but I didn’t proof-read and was angrily confused while typing it up. I hope it’s vaguely understandable and that we can get some reasoned debate from it, even if you don’t agree with my opinion.
March 16th, 2009 at 9:43 am
Re: Roslin’s bath in the fountain…
It seemed like the news of her family’s death was finally sinking in. As awkward and odd as wading into a public fountain was, it did hide her tears. Have we ever seen Roslin cry in any episode?
March 16th, 2009 at 9:58 am
Was the woman that was stabbed by Julius Baltar the mother of Kara Thrace? Whether it is or not, we should now put to rest the Kara/Baltar are siblings thread.
I liked Nate’s comments about the characters. The flashbacks aren’t filler, they are setting up the destinies that lead the characters to the final chapter. The show isn’t about finding Earth, “the colony”, etc. It’s about the characters.
March 16th, 2009 at 11:43 am
@ Kattie:
FIrst off, it’s actually not “two years after Zak’s death”. It’s really one year after Zak’s death that the Galactica is decommissioned. Starbuck, in the mini-series says its been a year since Zak’s funeral to Apollo when he visits her in the brig. Plus, we know the events in the flashbacks we’ve seen were two years before the mini-series, primarily because of what James Callis has said in interviews about his character’s relationship with Caprica and how he felt when he discovered that “the woman he’s known for two years turns out to be a Cylon”.
That being said, to answer your second question, the flashback indicates that we are seeing Baltar and Caprica together for the first time (or possibly second time if you count the Baltar issues of the Dynamite Entertainment comic book “Battlestar Galactica: Origins”). He may not have remembered Caprica’s name (or the name assigned to her for her mission) at that moment, but may have learned it and remember after starting both a personal and professional relationship with her. Just because Baltar doesn’t speak her name in the mini-series doesn’t mean that after two years, he still doesn’t know it (her name is mentioned in the novel adaptation of the mini-series, but has been retconned completely out due to the assigning of the name Caprica in the actual show. Don’t blame the author, he wrote the adaptation and it was published before the events of Season 2’s “Downloaded”).
March 16th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
I wonder if the hour out of Adama’s life ishim pleading in court to a drunk driving offence
also Lee was drunk
Baltar mentioned he drinks while his driver drives
In caprica doesn’t Daniel graystone lose a daughter which makes him build a cylon why does he lose her?
All this has happened before.
March 16th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
Hmmm . . . I don’t see how the existence of an imaging chamber on Kobol makes extra-dimensional aliens required. These people have SPACESHIPS! Whoever moved the colonies TO where they ended up must have had space travel tech as well, and if they had that, why couldn’t they have had imagers. To tell you the truth . . . the imaging chamber on Kobol is more like external Cylon projection. Or a really awesome planetarium.
So it’s more likely that humans ARE old Cylons, and we keep upgrading over the millennia. Humans created Cylons who created skinned Cylons who destroyed the bulk of humans, who made an alliance, breed with skin Cylons, creating Hulons, which are more Human than Cylon. Then they travel (with amazing tech), re-populate and colonize other planets, and over the centuries forget that they were part machine. Then the new Humans create Cylons, who create skinned Cylons . . . and on and on.
But again, I HIGHLY doubt that Ron will bring in supernatural beings. It’s too deus-ex machinae. And every writer knows that that is just a cop out.
March 16th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
Hera: When the frak hits the fan (and it will) Hera will reveal her superpowers. She will project a vision to every skin job that causes them to stand down/chill/just altogether stop fighting just long enough for the Phallic Toasters to put the smack down on ‘Cavils and the gang’.
Blackhole: All the fighting will forfeit them from being tidally locked and everyone that is not dead at the time will be sucked into the Blackhole. The Blackhole will reveal a portal to the ‘life after death’ world. This won’t be an alternate reality. Just a different place in space.
Gaius: He will join Galactica, if not Galactica the ship, Caprica herself. He’ll realize he truely loves her and wants to be with her no matter what. He will die. But will be resurrected before everyone’s eyes. (at least enough important people so they can tell everyone else the legendary story of one Gaius Baltar: The Galactic Playa).
Caprica: She will raise Hera cause Helo/Athena won’t be able to take care of her (cause of their death). The loss of Caprica’s baby will be filled with the gain of Hera and fulfill Gaius’ visions.
Helo: he will die a very noble death. A real tear jerker I’m sure.
Adama: Will have his mind frakked when he comes through that Blackhole and finds out what all his years of service was for. (I don’t know yet either, watch the frakkin’ show)
Laura: She one of those that die before going into the portal/Blackhole.
Starbuck: Realizes that she’s that little wooden statue that was on the Model Ship Adama destroyed waaay back. Yeah, I know, weird huh.
Lee: Decides that after this whole Blackhole/Cylon/Woman Stealing mess he’ll go into modeling. (He realizes how much money he can make off the Towel of Apollo)
Final Five Don’t reboot: Tyrol sacrifes himself in a really cool way that gives Galactica a little more time. Saul & Wifey die and never to reboot. Anders makes the ‘perfect throw’ by smashing Galactica into the Colony. Tori, not having special powers, realizes she’s better off looking hot in the end.
Hot Dog: He’ll actually make it out alive. His final words on the show will be “Woah, look at all those dead chicks.”
Ok these are getting ridiculous. I’ll definitely miss this show. One love BSG.
Keep The Statue.
March 16th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
BOL, LOK, Humans, Colonials, Cylons, Cylonians, Hulons………. Did I miss one?
I’m ah?
End of line,
CJimison
March 16th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
Anyone else in here think Baltar is the Cylon God?
His people, not having representation in the Government (thanks to Lee), will leave, whatever planet that humans settle (New Kobol) for a planet of they’re own, but will need Cylons resurrection to survive, so will become Earthen Cylons.
Make Sense to anyone? This is a developing theory I have. Why else would they take time in Daybreak 1 to show the incident between Baltar and President L Adama.
March 16th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
So my thoughts on Baltar, unlike all those of you who are wishing that he joins the Galactica and has a change of heart he has not had for the whole series. I believe he is indeed a selfish little weasel out for himself and always will be. I think the change his character will go through is he now accepts the responsibility of his actions. He will not go on the suicide mission, nor will he see Caprica except for the one in his head again. I believe he is going to take his people and run. He will be the remains of humanity. He will take the fleet with him and he will be the new leader. This way he looks good saying it is for the good of the people and he is still selfishly saving his own butt which is in his character. I think the cylon basestar (run by the final five without Anders who is on galactica) and Galactrica will both die fighting the colony thus continuing the cycle of destruction of the human\cylon war. So to sum up, the only remaining humans will be the left over fleet led by Gaius Baltar. End of Line
March 16th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
Theve done homage to tos bsg before so I wouldnt be surprised if that failed colony is also called terra. Or mabey our Earth will be called Terra which is what the romans called it.The Greeks called it Gai. Back to what I was saying before about the angels/demon thing. Day break could very well turn out to be a war of the gods scenario.They could very well get caught up in the war between “good and evil” as in demons and angels. It reminds me of what the lorne green adama said in tos “that weve always been in a war between good and evil”.I also noticed the hera is basically the new Dr.Z.Both were “a gift from the angels”.Caprica six is probably the new muffit! We all know the old tigh banged that thing!:)lol.
March 16th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
RDM has said before that he may take the supernatural explanation route before. So the idea of a third party isnt that far fetched.Unless the Cylon God is nothing more than a supercoumputer or the Imperious Leader from Tos.
March 16th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
Something else tell me if this is a good begining for a possible show I like to call Earth.
Humans were created by God.
They Rebelled.
They Evolved
There are many.
And God has a plane for them.
The human Race
Fighting for Survival
On a home Called Earth
March 16th, 2009 at 4:06 pm
viced_versed says:
I understand the points and purposes of these juxtaposed flashbacks but I fail to see why now. They want to set up characters for the final push, to provide resolution to their story arcs and give us all a justified sense of fulfillment and completion…but again why now? Moore has had the best part of four series to cement these characters and their traits within the minds of his audience…even with all the shifting and changes in plots etc, nothing much has changed in our protagonists that we desperately need a flashback episode…
The answer is simple…
The big themes of BSG (what does it mean to be human, to be worthy of survival, to coexist and trust in peace, to retain your humanity when faced with extraordinary circumstances, the meaning of life, to love and strive to be a better person) – these have already been addressed fully in BSG. That is, we don’t need any further material, any further episodes, to develop these themes. We don’t need anything particular to happen in ‘Daybreak’ for these themes will be fully explored.
We’ve already seen the themes play out to perfection: characters choose allegiances (Boomer, Sharon), find themselves and the meaning of life (Lee, the final five, many others), take action or not take action in an effort of being worthy of survival (e.g. Adama and Cain deciding not to execute each other, Kendra Shaw), sacrifice their lives for the good of others, not even necessarily of their species (Six in the latest episode, Cat, others), to love and strive to be a better person (Kara, Baltar, others).
If ‘Daybreak’ is not needed to develop BSG’s themes however, it is necessary to develop and complete plot and characters, the other two pillars of a story.
Plot – I’ve already said what I hope to see. Rescue Hera, kill the bad guys, some of the good guys find a nice home.
Characters – We will see ‘final’ choices being made in ‘Daybreak’ – final in the sense that these are the last choices we will see these characters make, and in some cases, final in the sense of final because some characters will die.
These choices will indeed give final definition to each character. These choices will in some cases be consistent with the character’s actions so far, and so won’t develop the character further. They will in this case, just be a completion of the character. (A good example would be Adama going down with his ship, giving his life to look after the fleet. Also Helo, being the ultimate good guy.)
In some cases, these final choices will define the character in new ways. They won’t be particularly consistent with actions taken in the past, or will go far beyond what we’ve seen before. (A good example here is probably Baltar – we will likely see him set aside his self-serving ways as he has been wont to do of late, but this will go far beyond past actions and define him in a new way. He has wavered as a true leader, afraid to set aside his safety and comfort if it meant making choices that would protect everyone, even if it meant his life would have meaning. I think he will truly become the leader he has the potential to be (and give himself the gift of a meaningful life), as Roslin indicated in her parting presidential letter to him on her deathbed the first time, long ago. He’s thought of himself as unworthy of a meaningful life, but that will change, I think.)
I am greatly looking forward to seeing the choices these characters make. That’s all I care about. (Don’t care if I find out what Kara is, what Hera is, what the head characters really are, etc.)
That’s what RDM is getting us to focus on. He’s said as much in Mo Ryan’s new column. Enjoy!
March 16th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
I am not yet convinced that either Baltar or Caprica are supernatural figures. However, there may be a supernatural force – or God – who is influencing (even manipulating) events. My best guess is that the “One True God” is using Caprica as a vessel to communicate with Baltar. At least that’s the impression I get from watching the episodes. But we are talking about a fictitious story, so anything is possible…
In the larger context, the one “whose name cannot be spoken” is the Thirteenth Lord of Kobol (LOK). The priestess Elosha explains that “one jealous god began to desire that he be elevated above all the other gods, and rebelled, and this triggered the cataclysm that drove humans off of Kobol”. It can be reasonably surmised that this jealous god was this Thirteenth LOK.
Based on the events in “Sometimes a Great Notion”, the Thirteenth LOK may also be Cylon’s “One True God” and the cataclysm that drove the Thirteen Tribes off of Kobol was a rebellion of cylons against humans (the recurring theme of children killing their parents).
I have speculated about this very thing in earlier posts and believe that the Thirteenth LOK was known as Ophiuchus, meaning Serpent Bearer. Ophiuchus is the only ecleptic constellation missing from the true solar zodiac, and it was this constellation’s ancient designation for whom the Thirteenth Tribe is named – Serpentarius . This also happens to be the only zodiological constellation NOT already taken by one of the other Twelve Tribes.
BTW, it is interesting to note that the Little Ghost Nebula (NGC 6369) is part of the constellation Serpens, which is part of the larger constellation of Ophiuchus and bears a strong – though not exact – resemblance to Kara Thrace’s Mandala (there could be a connection here). This missing Thirteenth constellation may prove to be the key to finding “our” Earth in the Cosmos.
I think it would be a be a very cool chain of connections if Hera’s drawing turned out to be a “stream of stars” that leads to the constellation Ophiuchus, which represents the Thirteenth Tribe of Cylons, which contains the Little Ghost Nebula and the answer to Kara’s Mandala vision, which in turn, provides the final celestial piece needed to properly locate “our” Earth in the cosmos.
It could happen…
March 16th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
My longer post failed to make it here so I have linked to it here:
http://williamweb7.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!12B00422028A0296!179.entry
March 16th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
@Jay Howl- The projection in the Tomb of Athena suggests its BOL technology is because we do not see any such similar technology in the Colonies. Think about it: Other than that project, have we EVER seen any similar technology in the Colonies? No. Unless “Caprica” establishes that technology, than it’s possible that the Beings of Light may have created that technology.
And it’s not just the Technology that suggests the Beings of Light. As I’ve stated multiple times before, there is a deleted scene from Season 1’s “Kobol’s Last Gleaming” that even suggests it more. The deleted scene involved Tigh, Elosha and Baltar walking down one of Galactica’s hallways. Tigh asks Elosha what was the reason why humans left Kobol because he forgot it. Elosha said, “There was one god who wanted to be above all others.” and that there was “a war amongst the gods” that drove humanity from Kobol. Head Six appears, saying “It’s all lies, there’s only been one.” The description of what happened on Kobol matches the description of what happened with the Beings of Light and Count Iblis (Count Iblis was looking for someone to rule over, and he had sway over Sheba in the original series). Plus, the episode in which the Beings of Light and Count Iblis first appears happens to be titled “War of the Gods”.
Plus, I believe that certain head characters and the Opera House visions are also controlled by both the Beings of Light and the Count Iblis being in this run, because both human AND Cylon have seen it. In fact, I think that D’anna didn’t really see the Final Five, I think she saw the Beings of Light and they took on the appearance of the Final Five in order to influence events (think about it, Caprica sees them as well while they stand from the balcony, far away for her to get a clear look of their face). And Starbuck’s resurrection, since all 12 Cylon Models have been revealed, suggests that the Beings of Light brought her back (they brought Apollo back to life in the original series, as well as planted the way to Earth in Sheba, Apollo and Starbuck’s brains and wiped out their meeting with the Beings of Light. All those details matches what happens to Starbuck in the new series: brought back to life, knows how to get to Earth, but has no memory on how she got to and from there. Also saw the damaged Rebel Basestar BEFORE it even got damaged).
March 16th, 2009 at 4:55 pm
The rough shape of Ophiuchus is a pentagon like the cylon symbol. It also represents some “unkown god” . There are also 5 sides to a pentagon which could also represent the final five. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiuchus
March 16th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe. Baseships on fire slipping into a black hole. I watched C-beams glitter in the middle of a stellar explosion.All those moments will be lost in time like tears in rain. Time to die. -Cavil
Couldn’t resist. Just saw bladerunner again on tv today.
March 16th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
If RDM ends the series with Manilow’s “Daybreak,” I’m out. ;P
March 16th, 2009 at 6:50 pm
-Tiberius-
Your sentence here:
The priestess Elosha explains that “one jealous god began to desire that he be elevated above all the other gods, and rebelled, and this triggered the cataclysm that drove humans off of Kobol”.
All I can think of in reading this is Cavil.
March 16th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
Mo Ryan – pretty recent interview with Tahmoh Pennikett – (what the hell is he talking about!??)
Mo: The way things ended for Helo — did you walk away feeling like it was right for him?
I did. There are two directions we could have gone with my character. There was the predictable direction, which I disagreed with, and I voiced it. And I was asked [what I thought], which is great, to get to a point in a series where my opinion was valued. I was asked what I thought. We talked about it at length, and after some discussion, we decided to go in the other direction.
Mo: Usually the show is defying what’s predictable and doing what I don’t expect. I thought you were going to say, “There were two directions for the character and they took the less predictable one.”
That’s my point, if you think about it. It depends on whose perspective you’re talking about. For some people, the direction it goes might be predictable, for others it might not.
Mo: But your sense was, it would feel more resonant, feel more right, if it went in a different direction?
Exactly.
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
March 16th, 2009 at 7:08 pm
In Mo’s recent blog (Chicago Tribune) about Daybreak part 1, she quotes an interview she did with RDM last year about the finale:
Mo: And speaking of the series finale, you’re happy with how that came out?
RDM: Very pleased with it. It came together all at once and it was a strange experience. In the writers’ room, we spent the first day [of breaking that episode] in a lot of difficulty, a lot of frustration. We sort of knew what the plot was, we knew the action story, we knew the plot of the finale. We spent that whole first day just struggling with the mechanics of the plot, how you got from A to B. We were spinning our wheels. I went home and I was in the shower and I had this “Duh” moment – the show was never about that. That’s not why I love the show. It’s not about the plot.
I went into the writers’ room the next day and wrote on the big dry-erase board, “It’s the characters, stupid,” and the writers laughed and we all sat back and said, “Who gives a [expletive] about the plot? Let’s just talk about these characters.”
Mo: And what happens to these people.
RDM: Who are these people, how do we want their stories to end, what is it really about? Once we did that, it all broke free. And then it was, “OK, this is what the finale is about.” And the plot was simple, the finale has a fairly simple through-line to it. But it’s really not about that. It’s really about these people you’ve taken this journey with and what the end of their stories are going to be.
Enjoy…I know I will.
If you add this post and my one above up, it sounds like Helo will be going against orders…that’s my guess anyway…but he’ll do it for the right reasons. Oh my Gods, 97 hours to go….
March 16th, 2009 at 8:11 pm
@Trongate: Excellent deduction on Cavil as the possible Thirteenth LOK. It would explain his detailed knowledge of past events – including the location of the Thirteenth Tribe’s “Earth” – and his apparent control over the F5 to wipe their memories and exile them to the Twelve Colonies. It also sets him up as the archtype demon lord in the coming “War of the Gods” as part of the cycle of eternal recurrence. I like it…thanks.
March 16th, 2009 at 8:26 pm
-Tiberius-
wow cool! I thought that was probably what you were thinking already.
on a similar note –
What I’d like to see happen is a plausible way to work in the supernatural element (Head characters, Lords of Kobol, Greek god allusions etc) and I think the way to do that is for Baltar to outright reject the role Head 6 is forcing on him.
If he does that (maybe by joining the Galactica mission), even after Head 6 beats him up a bit, that would really piss her off. I wanna see this kind of confrontation. Otherwise it makes me question how much freewill Baltar really ever had. And that includes Caprica’s manipulation and deceit leading up to the invasion.
Come to think of it – the whole show for me is about this conflict between these supernatural powers and everyone else human and cylon alike. And the cycle is another name for this conflict.
idk…
March 16th, 2009 at 8:27 pm
I looked up the script for the Galactica 1980 episode return of starbuck and there are some lines in it which are really new bsgish sounding.
Angela the being of light in human form who is the mother DrZ says “This is Judment Day Starbuck.” then she explains “Judgment Day is a day of Judgments,Judgements that you make, we all judge ourselves.” I wonder if Angela was an inspiration for Six.
March 16th, 2009 at 8:31 pm
For JD
Singing to the world
Its time we let the spirt come in
Let it come on in
I’m singing to the world
Everybody’s caught in the spin
Look at where we’ve been
We’ve been running around
Year after year
Blinded it with pride
Blinded it with fear
But its daybreak
If you wanna’ to beleave
It can be daybreak
Ain’t no time to grieve
Say its daybreak
If you ‘ll only beleave
And let it shine,shine,shine all around the world
Singing to the world
What’s the point of puttin’ it down
There’s so much love to share
I’m singing to the world
Don’t you see it all comes around
The feeling’s every where
Where we’ve been closing our eyes
Day after day
Cover in clouds losin’ our way
Hey but its daybreak
If you wanna’ to beleave
It can be daybreak
Ain’t know time to grieve
And its daybreak
And if you only beleave
And then let it shine,shine,shine all around the world
And its daybreak
If you wanna’ to believe
It can be daybreak
Ain’t no time to grieve
And its daybreak
And if you only believe
Then let it shine,shine,shine all around the world
Come on and let it
Shine,shine,shine all around the world
Hey and its daybreak
Can you feel it
And its daybreak
Can’t you sing it
That its daybreak
Sunshine
l
March 16th, 2009 at 8:45 pm
@centurion005: Thanks for adding the Wikipedia link for Ophiuchus…it has some good info.
I wanted to bring forth another quotation from the Sacred Scrolls that I believe references this specific constellation and why it is potentially important for the finale:
“The Lords anointed a leader to guide the caravan of the heavens to their new homeland. And unto the leader, they gave a vision of serpents, numbering two and ten, as a sign of things to come.”
In fulfillment of Pythia’s prophecy, the constellation Serpens – the Snake – happens to be the only constellation “cut” into two separate pieces (the “Serpents two” from the Sacred Scrolls prophecy).
The central constellation of Ophiuchus is made up of ten primary/main stars (the “and ten” reference from that same prophecy).
Now, having all thirteen constellations of the solar ecliptic, the Human survivors and their Cylon allies can now CORRECTLY plot the location of “our” Earth (the “sign of things to come” conclusion of that prophecy).
The pieces seem to be aligning toward this possibility, but as I have said before, RDM has left himself a lot of “wiggle room” and this is only one of many different options.
We’ll find out on Friday what it’s going to be…
March 16th, 2009 at 8:57 pm
It may end something like this. We see the fleet jump to our earth this time with the north American continent visible like in crossroads and then it fades to credits.So we may never have the what year is it question answered.
March 16th, 2009 at 9:06 pm
@centurion005: I don’t know how I missed it the first time around, but I was scrolling back through the older posts in this thread to make sure I didn’t miss anything and I came across this:
“Well lets make sure that history never forgets the name…Galactica.”
Fantastic!!! From one old school Trekker to another – that was a great reference – and one of the all time best Trek episodes (ST:TNG, “Yesterday’s Enterprise”)! Nicely done!
March 16th, 2009 at 9:33 pm
I just rewatched the part of daybreak were anders says “slipped the surly bonds of earth” what I didnt catch before is that he also says and touch the face of perfection” instead of the face of god.Then he says “find the perfect world with the end of kara thrace”Does that mean karas going to die again? Tiberius thanks for the comment. Yesterdays enterprise is one of my all time favorite episodes of TNG.
March 16th, 2009 at 9:37 pm
Was this the first time we’ve seen Adama out of uniform?
March 16th, 2009 at 10:09 pm
Thinking more about the episode and Roslyn’s flashbacks: Her scene in the fountain may be a baptism by the LOK. It could be the moment when she becomes annoited.
In other words, chosen by the gods to lead the remnants of the human race to salvation.
March 16th, 2009 at 10:17 pm
So Baltar The Dying Leader?
He lead’s thousands , and When all you have is 39,000 People and change He counts as a leader.
And who he is, everything he was is gone now, He’s not Dying from it and though it’s Thin, It’s still Possible!
And Maybe Baltar Either Saves The day and gives his life to do so or maybe He some how gains control of the fleet and leads Them to a home, and likely dies at the hand’s of a lovers husband or Dies of an STD.lol
March 16th, 2009 at 11:12 pm
i gotta tell you, in watching the special tonight, i realize how much I have missed crazy Baltar and Head 6! I also did not like the idea of her being an angel. However, now I love it, because she brutalized him w/words, physical violence and sex to get him to follow his path. I love how it was not the typical messenger of God. She looked more like the Devil than an Angel.
I definitely don’t think Adama and Roslin will make it until Daybreak so to speak, and perhaps Baltar will finally make that personal sacrifice. I am dying to know the secret of the Opera House, and those visions. However, I am maybe thinking that we will see Boomer kill Cavil, and Tyrol kill Boomer. I don’t think that Helo is going to make it either, I am thinking that his personal sacrifice will be what saves Hera, who will grow up w/Sharon.
As Helo’s character goes, he will die and I am not sure it would end any other way at this point. I don’t think that he can recover from the Boomer incident and losing Hera to her as a result of his inability to tell the difference between the two. It’s important to remember that Helo’s love for Sharon and that baby, are what have given him a reason to live for the past 4 years. It is how he has survived through everything thrown at him, EVERYTHING. He is the only character who has had a tangible, future ie Hera, to live for after the holocaust. Honestly, without those 2 things, specifically hating himself for not seeing the difference between Sharon and Boomer, is something that I think he cannot forgive himself for, and he will commit suicide in a heroic act. He will not be able to live w/himself and look at Sharon, looking at him knowing, that she is interchangeable w/another model.
I also think we will see more of the flashbacks, which make me so sad, but I love them so much. It’s like they are giving viewers memories of characters before they die, or die before the are changed forever. I also think the flashbacks will provide answers to the characters final moments, ie. the will explain their choices in the end.
I am not sure what to think about Anders, but I do know that in watching Epiphanies again, the lighting on Caprica in Roslin’s dying memories is the same as it is in the flashbacks in this epi. I stand by they are like memories of the dying–for a physical or emotional death? We’ll find out on Friday. I can’t wait, but I can’t believe it’s over–I know I’ll need a box of tissues
A
March 16th, 2009 at 11:18 pm
Ok, my big theory! #1 – they’re showing flashbacks to these particular characters because they’re all going to die in the second part. Or #2 – the thing that will only take an hour of Adama’s time is a trip to a company called Recall, where he can have memories of a vacation implanted directly into his brain! He can be a secret agent on Mars, or even the leader in a hypothetical simulation of what a cylon attack on the colonies might look like. I’m joking, of course, but these flashbacks out of nowhere combined with the previews of the show Caprica, where everyone hangs out in a virtual reality world, make me worry about a huge cop-out.
March 16th, 2009 at 11:29 pm
I really liked the flashbacks.
A huge undercurring theme throughout these back 10 episodes has been “What could have been?” Just look at the Chief and Boomer. Adama and Roslyn reminiscing about her cabin. Even during the mutiny all I could think about was that Gaeta would have had his own Battlestar had the attack not happened. He showed substantial leadership qualities.
Anyway that’s my two cents..
March 17th, 2009 at 12:10 am
Okay, so the dying leader candidates are:
1. Anderstar Galactisam – Is he still dying or suffering from a wasting illness in the hybrid pool? He very well may die in the final battle against Cavil, and now that he is the literal personification of Galactica, the odds of this possibility rise, especially in light of Baltar’s poignant statement to Lee in “Islanded in a Stream of Stars”:
“Galactica has been more than our guardian. She’s literally a vessel into which we’ve poured all of our hopes and dreams. And when she’s gone – when we can no longer derive the security from looking out a window and seeing her massive bulk gliding by – then this life will be over, and a new life will have begun” (it also has a very “foreshadowey” tone to it).
2. Laura Roslin – She fits the wasting illness criterion and her death now seems eminent and she has been the obvious choice from the beginning. However, exactly because she has been the first, obvious choice makes her suspect – unless RDM employed “reverse psychology” and has kept her hidden in plain sight all along.
3. Admiral Adama – I didn’t know he was sick, unless you consider the slow emotional and psychological death he has been suffering from having to bear so much tragedy and responsibility for his actions. He may also die in the rescue attempt to save Hera from Cavil, so he is an outside possibility.
Actually, I kind of like the idea of Adama sacrificing himself to rescue Hera on the hope that she will be able to save Laura in an ironic “Gift of the Magi” kind of a twist. This option also seems to tie in with the flashback of Roslin’s family being killed in the car accident – she is the survivor and the loved ones around her are the ones who die. This also goes back to her conversation with Emily Kowalski (Nana Visitor from DS9) in “Faith” as they discuss the irony of surviving the Fall of the Twelve Colonies and the death of their families only to be stricken with a terminal disease. It would be doubly tragic if despite Adama’s sacrifice in saving Hera, that Hera cannot save Laura and she dies as well – just like Emily Kowalski died at the end of the episode (Hmmm, more foreshadowing perhaps).
4. Gaius Baltar – While a very strong case can be made for his transformation and redemption as a Christ-like figure, I think in the end, he will succumb to his true nature and choose self over martyrdom – and God will love him just the same for it.
5. Lee Adama – It is possible only in as much as he is the leader of the surviving Humans – but I think he is the least plausible and least interesting option.
BTW, during tonight’s “Last Frakkin’ Special” when RDM was talking about Ellen Tigh as the Fifth and he was going over the other possible choices and why they were excluded, he discussed all of the major characters EXCEPT for Lee. We may yet discover that Ellen is not one of the real F5 – and it is Lee who is the Fifth. Ellen then becomes the Cylon “angel” archtype and counterweight to Cavil as the Cylon “demon” archtype. Where is D’Anna Biers when you need her?
It would also make the tragedy of Admiral Adama absolute and complete – his beloved ship AND the people closest to him who were the source of his strength and determination to forge ahead and save “Humanity” are now Cylons. Maybe that’s too bitter – even for RDM.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:23 am
I am sooo very sorry that I have not been around to post. RL sucks sometimes.
Yet again we see the fleet split. But instead of settling on New Caprica, we see them splitting up on whether to go save Hera. And just like seasons past we see a literal line drawn on the deck. But this one not of salt that is ground in and made to disappear to show a unity in the fleet, but rather one of red tape, seperating the fleet in two, this time permnantly. And it’s red, like the blood about to be split.
One problem I do have so far with the season ending is what the frak is Kara, or Head Six or Head Baltar, etc. We soooo need more answers. What is Cavil hoping to find out from Hera, that I am sure we will find out in the last two episodes, but I am worried we are going to be left with questions.
The Opera House is coming back into play. Is it a projection of the Colony for Caprica Six? Is that why we are seeing it? Is the blood transfusion from Hera why Laura can see it? We know that Sharon obviously can project, and we now know that Hera can as well. Is this how they see the Colony, and if it is, why is Six and Baltar shutting the door on Athena and Laura? Or is that Boomer????
Gods, I hope we get answers.
March 17th, 2009 at 3:37 am
For any BSG fans who play “The Sims 2″, a call out for help. Check the video for more info: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9766MjJW-iU
March 17th, 2009 at 3:43 am
@ Sorshadeanin
Cavil want 2 no how to make more sexy Heras to dominate the next cycle
March 17th, 2009 at 4:00 am
@ CB2001
First off, having just watched the scene where Lee and Kara greet each other in the mini-series, I can say with confidence that it was two years between Zak’s death and the Colonies destruction, and not one.
K: “So how long’s it been?”
A: “Two years”
K:” Two years. We must be getting old.”
Anyway, I just think it’s awfully strange that RDM made it a point to NEVER have Baltar say Six’s name through the mini-series. He’s always called his invisible friend ‘Six’, and he calls the downlaoded counterpart of his lover ‘Caprica’. I just find it a little odd that he wouldn’t address her by the name he knew her as, if in fact he ever knew her name. I will concede that perhaps he calls her Caprica out of respect for her wishes, but…
Having never read the novelisation I’m unsure whether he ever called her by name there, but, seing as how the name was later ret-conned and presumably can not be counted as canon, it still remains a question that I’m hoping for a definitive answer to. Why bother showing aflashback where he specifically does NOT know her name, unless it was going to be a point of interest. Just a thought…
March 17th, 2009 at 4:17 am
@Kattie- I was sure it was one year. I guess it’s been too long since I last saw the mini-series (note to self: rewatch mini-series).
The reason behind showing the flashback with Baltar and Six is to show how Six got into Baltar’s life, to become more than just a fling (which by the way he acted in the flashback, that’s what he only saw her as). Plus, do you happen to remember the name of someone you’ve met for the first time without really repeating it to make sure you remembered it? It actually goes to show how little he didn’t really care about Caprica and her opinion until she helped him with his father. After that, he began a quasi-relationship with her, allowing her access to the Colonial Defense Mainframe, thus leading to the mass genocide of the human race. If anything, if what I said isn’t the answer, than we’ll more than likely get it in Part 2.
Or it could be just a “when you reach an end, you begin to think about the beginning” kind of thing and Ron Moore was showing us, “These were the characters before the beginning,” as a friendly reminder before the end.
March 17th, 2009 at 5:52 am
*sighs* Just listened to RDM’s pod-cast for Stream of Stars. Daniel is NOT Kara’s father, and has no connection to her at all. So much for all those theories. I just can’t believe that he’d throw in this 8th Cylon so arbitrarily and expect us to just think it was meant as a nice anecdote about Cavil, and an allegory to Cain and Abel. Uh…RDM? Have you actually noticed that your fans will jump on the TINIEST piece of information and spin it? Sheesh!!
March 17th, 2009 at 7:32 am
Matt + Nat,
I REALLY feel for you guys. This is a huge amount of text to sift through – I hope you find time to put together a new Podcast before the last episode airs…
Speaking of text:
where has all this unrelenting babbling on our part gotten us? For now, I’ve decided to hang all the theories and speculation out to dry. We will eventually know the truth. Give it up folks. No matter what we dream up in our heads, it’ll end how it ends. Just somebody turn out the lights before we go…
I’m sorry, do I sound somewhat dissapointed? Let me put it another way: an exceptionally brilliant piece of work which not only stands out, but also re-defines it’s genre. Not too many “productions” can say the same. I’m putting this series on the same pedestal with Blade Runner and Alien in that respect. But yes, the run up to the finale has, in my opinion, take WAY too many side-streets that just don’t seem to be getting us anywhere. The home-stretch will have to be way too short and traversed at break-neck speed. It couldn’t be any other way…
Hoping I’m dead wrong,
Ripley
March 17th, 2009 at 7:47 am
Sorry Lt Ripley, and as much as I love Battlestar for as great a series it has been (despite my misgivings about some of the more recent material), it is not on the same pedestal as Blade Runner. Yes there is a great deal of philosophy, sociology, religion, metaphysics etc embedded within the text of Galactica, and yes they both deal with the concept of what it means to be human and the dividing line that runs between the machines and humans as it becomes blurred and broken, but to compare it to BR is completely nonsensical.
Galactica hasn’t redefined anything…maybe reimagined many things but not redefined anything. I appreciate it’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it, but I would also appreciate some perspective objectivism.
I look forward to friday with abated breath, but I made the same point as you did last week, there’s no more time to be creating theories and posting manuscripts…it’s just time to sit back and see whether we will be made to feel wowwed, underwhelmed or indifferent.
March 17th, 2009 at 8:44 am
NZrules sexy hera? You a pedo man or girl?
March 17th, 2009 at 8:55 am
Tiberious you mentioned the Ophiuchus and the snakes and also the serpents numbering 2 and 10.(2+10=12,12=12 cylon models) We all know that in tos the cylons were created by an advanced serpent race.Could the Ophiuchus be a homage to that? Im definitely not suggesting that they’l show the reptile cylons but its a neat reference none the less.
March 17th, 2009 at 10:43 am
@centurion005: Yes, absolutely…in fact, I have thought exactly the same thing about the TOS reptilian Cylons – or at least it explains why Glen A. Larson imagined them as being reptiles. It’s also a matter of there only being one ecliptic constellation left to serve as the representation of the Thirteenth Tribe, but as a point of nostalgia, I really like the TOS connection. However, I am absolutely certain reptilian Cylons won’t be popping up in “Daybreak, Part II”.
Interestingly, as part of the TOS timeline of events prior to the episode “Saga of a Star World”, we learn that the Cylons were a militaristic, expansionist race of biological reptiles. The Cylons launched a war of aggression against a humanioid race called the Hasari whose territory bordered the Twelve Colonies. The mechanical centurions were created by the reptilian Cylons as a race of servant warriors to help them prosecute their imperialist agenda.
The Twelve Colonies of Kobol entered the conflict on the side of the Hasari and were plunged into the Thousand Yahren War. The episode opens at the conclusion of the war on the eve of the historic peace treaty signing on the neutral moon Cimtar. Conspiring with Lord Baltar, the Imperious Leader (a biological reptillian) lures the Colonial Fleet away from the Colonies and launches a surprise attack. The Twelve Colonies, and most of Humanity, is annihilated in the attack – it would be recorded in TOS Colonial History as the Battle of Cimtar.
TOS had some interesting ideas, but never had the budget or time to explore them in detail. While I am nostalgic about TOS, I prefer RDM’s connecting Cylons to Humans in the cycle of eternal recurrence.
March 17th, 2009 at 11:00 am
In a way the cylons are actually quite serpent like.Especially cavil. He can be a deviously cold blooded killer. And the scene in no exit where ellen takes a bite of the apple it that could represent eve and the serpent is cavil.
March 17th, 2009 at 11:27 am
One other unrelated fact. Did you know that the guy who played Q also played one of the terran officers in Experiment on Terra? And patrick stewart did a side role as a minor character in one of the 1980 episodes.
March 17th, 2009 at 11:47 am
Sorry have to correct myself. It was a different patrick stewart and he played Dr.Z.
March 17th, 2009 at 11:48 am
Well, truth to say I found this episode flat, even weak – more of a taster / promo for the new “Caprica” series.
There was no real drama or gutsy bit which grabbed me – just small interesting things which – filled time, but made no real story development. Gius had a farmer dad, Hera can project, Kara has come clean about being ??? something odd – and Anders is still in the gloop.
Actual plot development was minimal apart from “We’re gonna go get Hera. Who’s coming?” – which was spun out over 15 mins!
And so much left out! For example, the chief. He’s hit and hurt an 8 bad – and all we get of that story is: Now he’s in the brig…. and that’s it?? I wanted to see what Chief would do – hide, deny, come clean / go tell Adama – those two can do drama. So why not?
All the rest was snippets, filler + taster shots for “Caprica”.
And not that much CGI. Hopefully, this is due to budget being saved for… the final episode.
March 17th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
The Cast?!?! Do we get one this week?
March 17th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
@Steve
What are you talking about? they made a brand new cityscape for this episode, and it looked INCREDIBLE…
But yeah, I guess you were talking about space battles… looks like there will be one on friday… according to the preview…
March 17th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
okay, I’m confused, many of you state that the flashbacks in daybreak are just tasters for the series Caprica. Why? Just because it happened on the same planet. None of the current cast of battlestar is slated to be on Caprica and it happens before their lifetime. I’ve also heard that Caprica will be more soap opera. It’s going straight to dvd and might be shown on scifi. if it had ties to battlestar it would definately be shown on scifi. well, i guess we will see, but the flashbacks must have just been to show the characters near their beginnings so we can see if they have changed when they end this friday. End of Line
March 17th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
@Mr. Lovejoy: I think you are correct. I believe the flashbacks are not meant to introduce new elements/direction to the story but rather highlight the qualities and traits we already know about these characters. They are intended to add perspective and understanding to their actions.
I fleshed out some of my thoughts about the flashbacks in an earlier post, but have compliled them together with some new speculation related to the flashbacks seen in “Daybreak, Part I”:
1. Water – Water has long been a symbol of life – without it, life cannot exist. Water is also the first thing you see when looking at “our” Earth from space (think Big Blue Marble). Water is a symbol of purification and rebirth (think Noah and the Great Flood). All of these themes run deep in the BSG universe and I think the survival of the Humanity is likewise dependent on and connected to the life giving and sustaining water found on “our” Earth.
2. Baltar – To me, Baltar’s flashbacks seemed to be the most transparent. They clearly established his self absorbed, narcissistic nature and will heighten the contrast when measured against his desire to do the right thing at the end. Baltar was very conflicted on the hangar deck when trying to decide which side of the red line he would choose. Despite Caprica’s choice and the added pressure it must have added for Baltar – he waivered, but stayed in place. While a very strong case can be made for his transformation and redemption as a Christ-like figure, I think in the end, he will succumb to his true nature and choose self over martyrdom – and God will love him just the same for it.
3. Lee Adama and the Bird – Following the scene when Lee rejects Baltar’s outstretched hand, I think the flashback scene where Lee chases the pigeon/dove out of his apartment symbolizes his rejection of cooperation with Baltar. The fact that he was apparently drunk at the time symbolizes that his judgment is clouded. I think at some point, he will become enlightened will be compelled to cooperate with Baltar and/or his followers to save the fleet. We may then see a flashback in “Daybreak, Part II” where he is sober and accepts the dove/pigeon’s presence in his apartment.
The brewing revolution that started to take shape in Dogsville has yet to play out and we now know that Baltar’s followers number in the thousands and are spread across the fleet. I am sure they plan to use the “Big Guns” Baltar provided to them, and Baltar and Lee will be fighting on the same side – eventually.
4. Roslin – I think the flashbacks of Laura with her family cast her in the role of a SURVIVOR and not the dying leader. When we learn that Roslin’s family was killed in the car accident – it establishes her as the survivor and the loved ones around her are the ones who die (this doesn’t bode well for the Admiral). This flashback also goes back to her conversation with Emily Kowalski (Nana Visitor from DS9) in “Faith” as they discuss the irony of surviving the Fall of the Twelve Colonies and the death of their families only to be stricken with a terminal disease.
As the symbol of the dying leader, she fits the wasting illness criterion and her death now seems eminent and she has been the obvious choice from the beginning. However, exactly because she has been the first, obvious choice makes her suspect – unless RDM employed “reverse psychology” and has kept her hidden in plain sight all along. I think that it was misdirection and Roslin was never the dying leader.
5. Admiral Adama – The flashback was too generic for me to glean anything meaningful – except for the fact that he was not in uniform. I am sure that was significant, just not sure what it means.
However, if you look back on the Admiral – he is really a tragic figure. He has endured incredible pain and loss and I think it could be argued that he will become the dying leader when you consider the long, slow emotional and psychological “death” he has been suffering from having to bear so much tragedy and responsibility for his actions. He may also die in the rescue attempt to save Hera from Cavil.
In fact, I see the plausibility of Adama sacrificing himself to rescue Hera on the hope that she will be able to save Laura in an ironic “Gift of the Magi” kind of a twist. However, it would be doubly tragic if despite Adama’s sacrifice in saving Hera, that Hera cannot save Laura and she dies as well – just like Emily Kowalski died at the end of “Faith”. (Hmmm, more foreshadowing perhaps).
That’s what I have for now (sorry for some of the duplication of content – I thought it would be helpful to combine these thoughts together into a single post).
Friday can’t come fast enough…
As always, I welcome your feedback and kind response.
March 17th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
Ye Gods, give me strength! Roslin is the dying leader, who has a wasting illness and has seen a vision of serpents numbering 2 and 10. What purpose would it serve to change that at this point? Yes there’s a hole in the bucket, and Adama is a tragic figure. Adama might go down with the ship, but Roslin is still the dying leader. Mind boggling!
March 17th, 2009 at 4:01 pm
vice-versed argues that “Galactica hasn’t redefined anything…maybe reimagined many things but not redefined anything.”
Very wrong!
Bladerunner redefined the entire genre of science fiction – that it could be art, relevant, deeply engaging in terms of multi-layered characters and symbolism and allusion, that it was ok for it to be gritty and real rather than plastic, that atmosphere and the whole creation of a future world in all its particulars, counts. The difference between Bladerunner and the same movie made by a non-visionary on a smaller budget, is that in Bladerunner, the world is real.
I think it’s definitely true that Battlestar has further redefined the genre in terms of multi-layered characters and symbolism and allusion. It definitely took Bladerunner, on some levels, a step further. Especially in terms of allusion (mythology) and character development. That’s not to say the character development in Bladerunner wasn’t fantastic, but is limited by about 100 minutes, and BSG has much more time.
BSG has also redefined television. Period. And NO ONE can argue that one, baby!
I put it up on a ‘pedestal’ with Blade Runner and Alien, as Lt. Ripley does. Even if Friday night disappoints me, which I am sure it will not!
ps. Tiberius1111 – I think Roslin’s flashback shows how much she had nothing before the attack, and how much Adama and the Grand Old Lady mean to her now, all the more poignant as she’s about to lose it all. I think she’s the dying leader.
March 17th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
BSG deals with alot of issues on the spiritutal side to. It dwells in that age old question why do bad things happen to good people?Unlike other science fiction shows you kinda have to have faith yourself.You cant really appreciate it if your an atheist.
March 17th, 2009 at 7:11 pm
I think Baltar was adopted.
Gaius in history was the first emperor of the Roman Empire. Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus, also known as Augustus (like the 8th month of 12 in the year) was adopted by his great-uncle Julius Caesar.
In last week’s episode we found out that his Baltar’s dad was named Julius. Hmmm, coincidence? I doubt it.
March 17th, 2009 at 7:12 pm
For above comment see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustus
March 17th, 2009 at 7:24 pm
Another thing I thought was odd/cool… Gaius met another boy named Gaius in the episode they had they’re food taken. Gaius Julius Caesar had no sons and adopted a boy whose name was also Gaius.
March 17th, 2009 at 8:09 pm
OK I am writing after watching a few times and trying to pick up on as much as I can. Rather than do something like I usually do I’m just going to expand on my notes so it will be in more chronological order of the show. I have also watched the special that was on Monday night and it had some hints in it as well. I am starting off with that.
They hinted in the special that Adama was going to fly the last viper off Galactica. This leads me to believe that even if she gets destroyed as I suspect he will be the last one off the ship like a good Commander of a ship.
There is some footage of the Galactica blowing up so I guess that yes she is done for next week. LOL
There was some mention of Athena, Heilo and Hera having something special in the end. I think this about guarantees they will survive Friday night.
There was a clip of Adama screaming his head off about having a Cylon tied into his CIC. I guess that means Anders will be the Hybrid for Galactica and get left behind on her.
RDM said that head 6 is a divine messenger to Baltar. Back to my beings of light theory.
Now onto my thoughts on Daybreak part 1.
Now my first observation is more of a question. Things open up with Adama in a business suit being interviewed by a man. He is saying he has been a commander of 2 Battlestars and a cruser blab la bla and the man told him it’s just an hour of your life. It seemed like an interview of some kind but what for? Is it talks for the decommissioning of the Galactica?
In the Part where Baltar had to go take care of his father his dad was talking about how ashamed he is for changing his accent and such denying his roots. Baltar reacted saying something about being sick of hearing his working man conspiracy etc. It sounds to me like he was yelling at his father for things that are in the manifesto he later wrote while in jail. Again not an original idea but something to benefit him. I also put something else together. Now I may be crazy but Baltar’s father had one heck of an Irish accent and when Baltar a while back spoke the way he use to before he learned how not to talk with an accent he had an Irish accent. Now he speaks with a British accent. This is kind of like the struggle that took place in the potato famine when all the Irish left there homes for America in search of a better place to live. Back then the Irish were compared to freed slaved only white. A lot of them changed there names to an English or Scottish name and tried to change there accent so they wouldn’t be looked down upon and could have a better chance to make a better life in America. Kind of reminds me of Baltar’s whole thing about Tauron being the poor farmer Colony and Caprica running everything. It may be nothing but it does have the whole it has happened before and it will happen again theme.
Now onto the flash back to Starbuck and Zack. She pointed out how Lee was the worst lire she had ever seen and Zack confirmed it and also said that he was also known to steal his girlfriends. It makes me think about how Lee and Starbuck hooked up and such. Also why he is such a goodie goodie all the time and is not good at pulling a bluff.
Another thing I just noticed and it may have been mentioned before and I have just been missing it. As they showed Starbuck apartment on Caprica it made me remember the place they were holding he on New Caprica. It was set up exactly the same. Different furniture and such but it was of the same lay out. Not that it makes any difference but it is interesting just the same.
I did catch something very simple in the scene where Adama was packing up all his stuff to go to the Baseship He paused as he prepared to pack a picture It was a picture of a little boy and I think Zack. I think this was leading up to the thought of rescuing Hera.
Head 6 told Baltar “she is right, Humanity is at its final chapter and you will be its author.” This along with what was said by RDM in the special leads me to believe that God of whatever has a plan for Baltar to survive to write a book perhaps a bible of some kind about everything.
Now just another observation here on a flash back. When Caprica 6 was in Baltar’s house waiting for him I think it was before they were involved, they were just getting ready when he got the call from his fathers nurse. He was visibly upset and not reacting like he was caught cheating like in the mini series. She had told him about what she did for his father and such and was a very slick was to get to him so she could gain his trust to get into the Colonial defense system.
Now onto the Colony. It looked rather primitive with the rock like structure and such like it was build within an asteroid or something. May be nothing but could make it hard to get into. Also the Cylon doctor I am sorry I can’t remember what they call him he was looking like he is starting to question Cavil. It may be a possibility that he and Boomer will break Hera out as Galactica comes in. I know the colony is going to be next to impossible to get into strategically speaking. This may be the only way this can work.
The shot of Adama standing in the hatch with the light over his head shadow directly under him before he turned around and got Athena and Hera’s picture was like a cowboy at high noon about to get in a showdown. I think this is when he finally made up him mind to go in for the rescue.
Anders has a perfection thing going on from the back flash when he was getting interviewed. Then when he comes back on line he is talking about geometric things and perfection then said something very clear about finding the perfect world for the end of Kara Thrace. Now that left me saying WTF??? I guess somehow he is going to find the new home world for everyone?
Now there is something significant about the scene of Lee chasing down the bird while he was drunk but I can’t figure it out. They showed it at the beginning of the show and again when he had is flash back. Interesting I think but may not be important.
Lee mentioned on the phone to whom ever he was talking to that any former Colonial officer crewmen etc who is in jail will go on the mission. This means people who were in the mutiny. I wonder where this will take us. We already saw the Raptor crew who were part of the Gaeta Mutineers.
Finally When Adama had everyone at the hanger deck looking for volunteers it shows Baltar looking like he it trying to make up his mind. At first I thought he was thinking about doing his 1 selfless act but then I noticed he was watching Caprica 6 the whole time. I don’t think he was pondering on if he should go or not but rather trying to get her to stay behind. I do still feel he is in love with her.
Well that is my bit here. I haven’t read anything on here about all this since my last post. As I said before I needed to watch it again before diceting it to post. I am sure I am WAY too late for the fan of the week thing but that is just fine. I have fun doing this every week.
OH and one last thought. There was talk of at least 1 Battlestar movie. I think it may be something to fill in the gaps during the flash back sequences. It would be interesting to see at least.
One last funny thing. I don’t think Vince from Sham WOW would have liked the scene of the coffee getting cleaned up with limited success. LOL
March 17th, 2009 at 8:15 pm
For those of you with Daniel related theories, you might want to listen to the podcast for sometimes a great notion. RDM talks about him briefly and the internet theories that have sprung up about him. I wouldn’t consider it a spoiler since he does not say what will happen in the finally, just what won’t happen in the finale.
March 17th, 2009 at 8:22 pm
That movie is called the plan.It will be sorta like Razor.Plus my suggestion of the cylons being like the flood from the bible which wiped out most of mankind is right than the bird could somehow be an allegory for the dove.The common story is that the bird broght back an olive branch to Noah indicating dry land. The seal of the united states has another bird the bald eagle which is also caring an olive branch. The olive branch on the us seal has 13 leaves.For the orginal 13 colonies of course.None of this may mean anything but there could be a connection.
March 17th, 2009 at 8:42 pm
Matt and Nat;
Please, please, please, for the love of Gods, do a BSGCast on one of the original episodes. Gun on Ice Planet Zero or such. That would be the coolest ever after the series before the plan.
Jack
March 17th, 2009 at 9:15 pm
The big reveal at the end is…
What has happened before will happen again….
Galactica is destroyed. The fleet sets out for a new home. The combined fleet settles a new set of colonies and Cavil’s cylons settle on another earth.
March 17th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
On the cylons new homeworld they start doing genetic research on lizards. Then they combine cylon dna with the lizards to create a humanoid lizard cylon.The cylon reptiles rebel against the skinjobs who lose and are exiled from new earth. The skinjobs colonize a desert planet named new kobol.There they form the 12 tribes.New Kobol becomes a desert planet from global warming and most just call it kobol and have forgotten its real name.Due to the now inhospitably of kobol they return to the old 12 planets were the humans are from which have all recovered naturally from the fallout.They are recolonized by the skinjobs and the skinjobs have long since forgotten they are cylons and believe they are human.The 12 colonies soon “rediscovery” the cylon reptiles.The cylon reptiles have also forgotten they have creators. In order to fight the “humans” the cylons create the centurions which rebel against them. And you know the rest.
All of this has happened before and will happen again.
March 17th, 2009 at 9:55 pm
M+N in case you decide to use any of my ideas like the Reagan speech reference id like at least credit for that finding. But you dont have to sign me up to win anything.Just wanted to let you know.:)
March 17th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
I know that in tos they said they were from a different galaxy. But in there language that could mean the same thing as star system. Like how frak means F#@ck.
March 17th, 2009 at 11:28 pm
I know there is a 99% chance that they definitely wont show the lizards but i still like my idea.
March 18th, 2009 at 1:03 am
@Centurion005: I do believe you have lizards on the brain…you are too funny!!!
March 18th, 2009 at 1:07 am
@Tootie: I can’t fault the logic of your post script regarding the Roslin flashbacks as it is the classic – and most obvious – possibility. Roslin has been the dying leader from the beginning and it would not be surprising to learn that is her true destiny. I also think that an important theme of BSG is survival – and whatever else she is, Roslin is a survivor. Sadly, she may not live in the end – the fates can be cruel that way – but we will be made to feel that she deserved to live. It’s like John Adams said: “We cannot insure success, but we can deserve it.”
However, by my reckoning, if Roslin begins with nothing and ultimately ends with nothing, it is a zero sum game. The emotional “gut punch” – for me – would be having Admiral Adama sacrifice himself – as the true dying leader – to rescue Hera so she can save Roslin. Then, Roslin survives the battle against Cavil and suffers the loss of the Admiral only to discover that Hera cannot save her. Heartbroken, Roslin then dies knowing that the Admiral sacrificed himself to save her and his death was in vain. What a bitter – and sad – ending it would be.
I thought one of the most “poignant” setups for Roslin came during her conversation with the Admiral in “Islanded in a Stream of Stars”:
Roslin: You know, sometimes I wonder what – home – is. Is it an actual place? Or is it some kind of longing for something – some kind of connection…I don’t think I’ve ever felt truly at home until these last few months – here with you.
The flashback on Caprica gives us some depth of perspective as to why Roslin only now feels like she has found a home for herself and the extreme importance of her “connection” with the Admiral. Any loss that would sever this connection and her sense of home would be devastating.
I freely admit that this is not the obvious path for RDM to take in “Daybreak, Part II”, but the pieces – seemingly – fit together and it offers an alternative possibility.
I am excited to learn the truth on Friday and honestly, I will be happy with whatever path RDM chooses. For me, watching the journey unfold and following the characters is what kept me coming back week after week.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts…
March 18th, 2009 at 1:32 am
OBTW, did anyone catch the Kara/Lee love theme as Lee was trying to get the bird out of his apartment? And since I think Kara has been symbolized as a dove at some point, combined with her line from Razor: “I guess you’re stuck with me till the end,” I think Lee and Kara will end up together somehow.
March 18th, 2009 at 1:33 am
So, where’s the BSGCAST for this week???
March 18th, 2009 at 3:27 am
@Brian
I think you’ll find the “pigeon” in Lee’s apartment is a much more obvious reference to the initial show we had upon entering his apartment of a “Viper” or as they’re often referred to them “birds”…given that Lee was in full combat attire come the end of Daybreak Part 1…it would be logical to assume that Vipers will be involved somehow in the final battle.
March 18th, 2009 at 3:46 am
@Tootsie
On the Bladerunner issue we’re agreed Tootsie, we both appreciate and understand what aspects, concepts and conformist ideas regarding science fiction the film teared down, opening the door to other possibilities of looking at the future and dealing with sociopolitical ideas. However I don’t think you can put BSG on a pedestal for the simple principle that a) because it is telling its story over such a longer period of time it is much more ineffective in many more areas. I’m not saying it should be compressed into the confines of one hundred and twenty minutes, but there is so much waste within the course of the series…and opinions into perspective, the majority of season 4 has been a hodge-podge mess that has really lacked direction in knowing where they wish to take the series…which is a shame given that seasons one two and the beginning and end of three were nothing short of exceptional. b) Many of the cinematic and literative aspects of the show have been derived from other “shows” which eminated prior to the arrival of Galactica…the series like 24 and Lost were utilising certain techniques in creating a show that Galactica has benefitted from. Galactica has however, implemented the use of symbolism on a high scale and done a great deal of subtle referencing to our own mythology. I would have liked on occasion the connection between the two to have been a bit more obvious, because i’ve felt sometimes it’s swept under the carpet and ignored or merely glossed over, of course you don’t want to go all Ghost In The Shell with the series and be referencing Descartes every five minutes, but something more tangible in that regard without the need to reference my books or research wikipedia would be helpful.
Battlestar Galactica has been an excellent series, no one is taking that away from the franchise…not even the weak series we are currently finishing has put me off watching the show, and I will be there til Galactica’s dying breath, but to say it revolutionised tv? I think it has been the best thing on television for quite some time…especially when it was hitting its stride in Season 2…then it was not only increasing its fan base, satisfying the current fan base but also appeasing the critics who WERE claiming this to be the best thing on television. But revolutionary? I don’t think what Moore did was revolutionary, but what he proved is you could take the “space-opera” basis that made the initial Star Wars franchise so successful and opened it up to the nth degree. He created an enclosed sprawling universe and populated it with characters that he knew his audience would grow to love, hate or both consecutively over the course of time. He wasn’t afraid to be somewhat more sentimental on screen in order to gain the emotional attachment required from his audience to make the series successful and he wasn’t going to let himself be bullied by Sci-Fi when they demanded that he create more stand alone “monster of the week” episodes as opposed to the multi-episode linear chapters that he has littered throughout and HAVE kept us hooked.
While we may disagree on somethings sweet cheeks, I appreciate you presenting a reasoned argument but that’s all I’ve wanted. I don’t want to resort to some pubescent slanging match, and come the end of the day we all have our own opinions about a multitude of things, but we both want Galactica to end successfully, and we both agree that it has dominated critical acclaim, and rightly so, on the television screen with a blend of science fiction, mythos, action, emotion, intrigue and politics that has re-defined the term “space opera”.
March 18th, 2009 at 8:32 am
BSG really did put the “opera” in space opera.Operahouse?Yeah and my lizard idea isnt for real. It was more of a funny little joke.
March 18th, 2009 at 8:33 am
viced_versed – thanks for the ’sweetcheeks’ – haven’t been called anything like that in a while, haha!
I hasten to add that just in the subject matter that BSG has tackled (torture, genocide, human rights, etc.) – even if the show had been relatively sucky in other ways – BSG has trail-blazed…..and revolutionized television.
I’d put BSG on a pedestal just for the Pegasus story arc alone.
Just for the extremely strong female characters alone.
Just for the scene right after Cain is shot, where Roslin presents Adama with his admiral pips.
Just for the scene where Starbuck stabs Leoben to death in the New Caprica dollhouse and eats her steak.
Just for the scene where Roslin goes to the morgue and arranges the bangs on Billy’s dead body.
Just for the scene where Zarek orders the Quorum murdered.
Just for the scene where Dee and Adama are in his quarters in front of his model ship and she convinces him to reunite the fleet.
Just for the scene where Adama wrecks the ship after finding out Kara is dead.
…and so on.
For all of you saying plot or character development or themes are one more important than the others, I insist they are all critical in great storytelling.
59.5 hours and one minute to go.
March 18th, 2009 at 8:33 am
2 more days 2 go!
March 18th, 2009 at 9:16 am
@Brian: Great catch…I didn’t notice the Kara/Lee love theme during Lee’s drunken bird chasing scene. I’ll have to watch the episode again.
I have speculated many times – on this forum – that there is a deep, transcendent connection between Kara Thrace and Lee Adama. I have connected them with Artemis and Apollo, brother and sister.
Consider what the First Hybrid said in “RAZOR”:
First Hybrid: Kara Thrace will lead the human race to its end. She is the herald of the apocalypse, the harbinger of death.
I always thought “harbinger of death” was a reference to Kara as a “huntress” (a.k.a. Artemis).
Leading the Human race to its “end” is simply a reference to her role in finding Earth and thus “ending” the journey for Humanity.
The Rebel Hybrid rephrases the same prophecy:
Rebel Hybrid: Thus will it come to pass. A dying leader will know the truth of the Opera House. The missing Three will give you the Five who come from the home of the Thirteenth. You are the harbinger of death, Kara Thrace. You will lead them all to their end. End of Line.
I think the “missing Three” is the Three (a.k.a. D’Anna Biers) who chose to stay behind on the “Earth” of the Thirteenth Colony. I think – in a surprise twist – she will return to the fleet in the finale and she will reveal that Ellen is NOT really one of the F5 (I talked about this in a previous post). That would re-open the door for another Fifth and I think either Kara or Lee will become the “real” Fifth. Anyway…
It would be nice if RDM explains the connection between Lee and Kara and that it will make sense within the context of the “truth” behind Kara’s true nature/destiny.
Just a thought: The Piano Player clearly wasn’t a real, physical person (and I don’t think he’s “Daniel” either) because he “vanished” when Tigh and the other F5 approached Kara while she was playing. Could the image of the Piano Player have been created by Cylon projection? My guess is that the image was projected by Hera, or secondarily, Kara.
BTW, Apollo and Daniel may be one and the same – crazy, huh…
We may not get the answers, but “Daybreak, Part II” will be a very entertaining ride!
March 18th, 2009 at 10:02 am
@ vice_versed
Sorry, the composer himself just verified my assertion that the Kara/Lee love theme was both present in that scene AND was a deliberate, gargantuan clue to the end of the show. It was definately foreshadowing for these two characters. They’ll end up stuck with each other somehow.
March 18th, 2009 at 10:39 am
@Brian: Thanks for the confirmation on the Kara/Lee theme – you nailed that music!
So, I guess the the bird in Lee’s apartment during the flashback is really a “Love Dove.”
March 18th, 2009 at 10:46 am
JerkBrain they usally have the bsgcast either on Wednesdays or Thursdays. So either today or tomorrow they should have it up.
March 18th, 2009 at 10:51 am
Looked up olive branch and the dove and heres something interesting.
“a dove was released by Noah after the Great Flood in order to find land. The dove came back carrying an olive branch in its beak, telling Noah that the Great Flood had receded and there was land once again for Man”
“In Greek tradition, olive branches are commonly used as peace symbols. The plant was said to be sacred to the ancient goddess of widsom, Athena. ”
Pigeons are city doves.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_symbol#Dove_and_olive_branch
March 18th, 2009 at 11:02 am
@Centurion005: Yes, this is exactly where I was going with my previous post about the Lee bird chasing flashback scene.
Baltar’s outstretched hand = Dove (both are traditional symbols of peace) and Lee “rejected” them both. I added the fact that his drunken state in the flashback was symbolic of his “clouded” judgment.
Interestingly, Lee is also “clouded” with respect to his true relationship with Kara. It is clear that they both care deeply for each other, but I don’t think either yet fully understands the significance or purpose of their relationship on a conscious level…
March 18th, 2009 at 11:44 am
Here’s hopin’ that Kara and Lee do end up together, but Sackhoff has indicated in several interviews that Kara ‘becomes a beautiful partner’ to Sam, ends up with Sam etc. although she also says Lee and Kara do have one more big interaction where there’s some kissing going on.
see
www (dot) kufo (dot) com/Katee-Sackhoff/3969310
and other websites!
(yes, I have no life until this series ends….)
March 18th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
@Tootie
lol…ok, that point I shall concede to that in terms of the quantity of themes tackled within the series BSG, in that sense, HAS revolutionised the television landscape, but I don’t think the show can be called revolutionary simply for addressing issues which perhaps more shows need to look at, on a more frequent and serious basis.
Just to reel off basically what you stated about the specific key moments and arcs..
Pegasus: Without doubt. Personally my favourite of all the story-arcs. It had intensity, drama, a well constructed story line that wove in so many characters in plausible and believable manners WHILST being able to develop them as individuals…the Helo, Tyrol side-arc for one!
Female characters: While not female and ergo not able to “fully” appreciate the impact as others might, the use of such strong matriarchal figures throughout the Battlestar series has been one of its major hallmarks, and has been noted on many-an-occasion by viewers and critics alike. Dirk Benedict is surely eating his words now, and if not I’ll be sure he’ll be sucking up his consonants through a straw, in regards to Kara “Starbuck” Thrace, because she has completely eclipsed his non-re-imagined (it is a word, I’m almost sure of it) version. Not to mention the President, Ellen, Athena etc because they’ve all added something to a genre that has stereotypically been male character infested…and done it as well as if not better than many of their contemporaries.
Cain: Ditto previous Pegasus comment…and for that matter the previous female comment. Cain was an exceptional character, the anti-Janeway, her moral compass wasn’t as such pointing in the wrong direction as it was liable to mislead. And we all love the military bagpipe music that’s been an emotive hallmark throughout.
Starbuck Steak: Nitpicking, a classic moment as far as the individual character was concerned, but I wouldn’t go out of my way to pointing it out to people as a key reason to watch Galactica…although I could understand it being a topic of great amusement between the Galactican faithful. (Also, if people want to post theories as to what type of steak it was, I’ll be more than glad to strike up that debate).
Roslin, Billy Body: Sounds like an album title…again ditto the previous comment, more character developmental, there have been many an emotional scene in Galactica and I wouldn’t quite have that as one of the top moments. But then this is all opinion mind you, and is by no means Gospel.
Zarek Quorum: We saw it coming when he left the cabinet onboard Colonial One, and the slow pan down the corridor to reveal the marines, but did we think he’d ACTUALLY go through with it? Of course we did, because we know that’s the real side to Tom Zarek and all the friendships etc prior to that were pseudo, and that’s what made it a great moment…the true Zarek, after four seasons was finally revealed in all his dark, unforgiving glory.
Dee, Adama: I always found any scene with Dualla to be a touch underwhelming, not through the actress Kandyse McClure’s acting, but because the character was always the antithesis to the Starbucks. Yes she provided balance so as not to have a ship of Amazonians, and she proved on many occasion to be the conscious and the heart of the fleet and officers in CIC. But the “pay off” for that scene is when Adama storms in to the CIC telling his crew to get information of Kobol, and the dramatic swell as he realises that he must stave his personal feelings aside for the betterment of the fleet and humanity.
Adama wrecking his ship: Just a wonderful, wonderful moment…as we all know he wasn’t actually supposed to wreck the boat (of which they had only a couple) because apparently it had cost the production crew a fair wedge of cash and it was their last copy…but the sheer spontaneity of it, the method acting of Edward James there in reacting like many of us would in that situation was simply brilliant, and is a moment to remember.
And there are undoubtedly many more, one of my personal favourite moments is the adlib “butterfingers”, which gets used in conversation a fair bit around these parts, because again of its spontaneity and quick thinking of the actor it gave us a little something extra we wouldn’t have otherwise.
Also, of course you are right in regards to each of those three facets you mentioned being equally important in creating a great story…but i’d say that perhaps on occasion in particular this half of season 4, one of those three seems to go walkabout at the most inopportune time and has left us with a “build-up” which has lacked cohesion in places…in essence we’ve had four episodes where about one and a half episodes worth of events took place…Daybreak Part One spent forty minutes to let us know what we already knew in who was going to go on the mission. Although, and I have been critical of the episode, Baltar and his father for me was a wonderful scene and really brought full circle everything he said in “Dirty Hands” (his book)…but if I were to be hyper critical, did it tell us anything we didn’t already know…we knew he didn’t get on with his father? It was a wonderful scene, as there have been from season 4…but its necessity will be debated. I also noticed you didn’t mention any great scenes from Season 4 (lol although I’m sure you’ll be able to reel some off for me…Gaeta and Zarek in the launch tube was a good one for starters), mainly because there have been limited opportunities (oh and Dee in the moments after bidding Lee “a good night” more literally than we thought).
59.5 minutes? I thought it was to be 80?
March 18th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
Also, did anyone catch Skull’s line “the more things change, the more they stay the same”? Could that have been a refrence to the last episode of DS9? That was, if I recall, the very last line in that show. And given RDM’s involvement with that show and the fact that he wrote this episode, I’d say it’s possible.
March 18th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
The first thing I thought about when i heard “The more things change, the more they stay the same” was Escape from L.A.
If you all remember, the last line of that movie was “Welcome to the human race”….Maybe the last line of the show will be Adama (if he survives) saying this line to their cylons allies.
March 18th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
does anyone know where I can find a streaming episode of the Last Frakkin’ Special?
March 18th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
vice_versed….That’s so funny – Baltar calling Gaeta ‘Butterfingers!’ after he mis-stabs him is also a GREAT MOMENT that I was going to add, but forgot!
Yes, true I didn’t pick any moments from Season 4….interesting. Maybe I need time to digest, or maybe…it’s the material. Need time to think about that one. That’s a big one.
You said “as we all know Adama wasn’t actually supposed to wreck the boat (of which they had only a couple) because apparently it had cost the production crew a fair wedge of cash and it was their last copy…”
That model ship was actually the only one they had, on loan from some model-builder guy who’d spent years making it. It was, because it was so valuable, insured for damage that might occur in transport or on the BSG set. Cue Eddy, who wrecks it in a brilliant acting moment.
Apparently, there was complete silence on the set.
Eddy had no idea how valuable it was, he thought it was just another prop.
Yes, I am a BSG nerd!!
For ALL of you, I just read this (link from Galactica Sit Rep), and it portends well for Daybreak Part 2, at least in terms of CGI and visual effects, so I have to share it here!!! (presumably this means awesome space-battle scenes and lots of Caprica…)
‘Battlestar Galactica’ season finale screened in New York’
A very small audience in New York — about a hundred people — saw the final cut of the two-hour season finale of “Battlestar Galactica” on Monday evening. The episode had been flown on the red eye from Los Angeles the previous evening. Mark Stern, the executive VP in charge of original programming for the network that we now apparently are supposed to call “Syfy,” said he had not even seen it; this would probably be the only screening before the show aired, he said.
An NDA and an oral pledge by the audience prevents these attendees — nearly all of them media, many from trade publications — from describing the episode in any way. The pledge was conducted by creator Ron Moore, who made each attendee at the New York Times’ Times Center raise his right hand and repeat: “I swear not to reveal any of the spoilers I see tonight.”
Why the red eye, Mr. Moore — why so last minute, when shooting was concluded last summer? “A lot of last-minute visual effects getting dropped in, we need that … shot, where’s that shot, no, go back and do this again, a lot of sound effects — it was just a mad scramble,” he said. “I think the lion’s share in the last week was done by our visual effects guys and girls who were just sitting in a dark room staring into monitors for like literally 24 hours. They just never took a day off for the last four weeks or something. … We just beat the … out of them. They really gave it their all.”
Gosh, that sounds expensive! “Oh, yeah. We sort of raped the treasury of Universal for the last one,” he said. “Universal stepped up. The network was, ‘Fine, make it three hours! But somebody has to pay for it and it ain’t going to be us.’ And the studio, in particular Todd Sharp, our head of production, they went back, they crunched numbers, and they came up with a whole extra hour of money to do it with. That’s an amazing thing for these corporations that are supposed to be heartless and not care about anything but the bottom line.”
There was a Q&A after the screening; pretty much each of the answers and the questions, and even the offhand remarks, concerned events of the episode and would constitute a spoiler, and so they won’t be repeated.
After the screening, Moore went out for a cigarette. Did he have plans to quit? “I am a social smoker, at best,” he said. “I really only smoke when I’m around actors.”
March 18th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
What a fantastic episode loved the flashbacks thought they had great bit of insight to the characters. What the episode i was hateing the “to be Continued”!!!!!
Was so glad that they finaly gave a explination as what had happened to Tyrol after he helped Boomer escape but it felt like we were missing a scene in the last ep.
Through the course of the episode we saw all but 2 of the 12 models obviously Deanna (3) wasnt going to be around as she was still on earth but i was disapointed not to see leoben again as he has always been my favourite Cylon.
The number of peole who sided with Adama was shockeing realy hoping for a lot more even maybe a little cameo by Kelly.
The Last thing i realy want to say and please tell me if im wrong but wasnt Skulls shot by Starbuck during the mutiny? If so how come hes able to be second seat on the raptor.
Cant wait for the end but also dont want the series to end.
March 18th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
Skulls was shot not killed.
March 18th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
I hope the final BSG cast is 2 hours long.
March 18th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
From The Last Fraking Special, I saw two things.
It looks like Adama WILL fly the last Raptor off of the Grey Lady.
Someone wants to hook Anders up to the CIC, and Adama is quite against this. It would, in effect, turn command of the ship over to Anders.
From the previews for the Last Episode, I wonder …
– if the large key that is turned is the autodestruct or removes any safetly restrictions on the engine core?
– if Adama will turn over the Galactica to Anders just before he escapes in the last Viper?
– if Anders screaming means that he feels every impact on the ship?
– Or was it a warrior’s cry as he drives the Grey Lady into Cavil’s colony?
– how, or if, the Vipers will escape since they don’t have FTL capability?
:::raises pint of Guinness::: To the Grey Lady! Best frakin’ ship in the fleet!
So say we all….
March 18th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
Starbuck’s dad = Fred Astaire.
(tos)
March 18th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
I’ve been watching the series since the beginning, but, I just found out about “BSGcast” a few weeks ago. They’ve usually been posted Monday or Tuesday the last few weeks, but, centurion005 says they are usually Wednesday or Thursday, so, I guess they’ve just been early the last few weeks.
And, I’d also like to find a streaming source for the Last Frakin Special.
March 18th, 2009 at 4:50 pm
@Brian – That line “The more things change, the more they stay the same.” could very well be a reference to John Carpenter’s “Escape from New York.” Snake Plisskin, played by Kurt Russell, says that line. Since Ron Moore admitted he picked up the line, “All of this has happened before, all of it will happen again,” from the movie “Peter Pan”, it’s possible that he may have picked it up from “Escape from New York”, used it in DS9 AND BSG.
March 18th, 2009 at 5:39 pm
Could be possible that the cylon colony is like the mother ship from independence day or the deathstar from star wars. If the galactica can fit inside it it may have a few basestars docked inside.They could hijack one for a ride.Mabey theres even one of the old basestars, the ones that look like two flying saucers on top of each other in it. Theres the old raiders inside it so why not?
JerkBrain What I meant to say is if that they dont have one at the begining of the week on monday or tuesday than it will be either Wednesday for thursday. When there out at a convention or something they do it at the end of the week.Since there in Austin they’ll probably have it up either later tonight or tomorrow.
March 18th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
Centurion005
Just to let you know the history of the US seal. The olive branch is to symbolize peace and the arrows for war. I am not 100% sure cause it has been a long time since I had to know this stuff but if I remember correctly when the US is at war the arrows should be in the right leg and when at peace the olive branch will be in the right. The right hand is traditionally the hand used in combat from midevel days and that is how the salute cam to pass as well. When Knights would meet and had no plans to attack they would raise there face shield with there right hand to show there face and that they were unarmed. (Everyone had to be right handed back then.)
Just a historical tid bit.
March 18th, 2009 at 9:05 pm
Jim I knew about the arrows but didnt know about the knight thing.Interesting.
I have a feeling that Daybreak p2 will definitely be a war of the gods finale. And in a very real and literal sense.I know eddy said he would quite if any “monsters” showed up but thats why rdm probably decided to wait to the very end to confirm the existence of these “real” angels. Angels arnt that type of monster or your typical alien.RDM in the frakin special said himself that Six is indeed an real supernatural angel.Extra dimensional alien is just the scientific term to describe basically well angels.And what of the lords of kobol? They could have been rebel beings of light(fallen angels or demons) who took human form.Mabey kara is one of them.Or the angels or God brought kara back in a new body and that new viper.When the hyrbids said the kara thrace will lead humanity to its end. It may mean the end of its journey. Not its destruction.
March 18th, 2009 at 9:05 pm
I just watched the Last Frakkin’ Special. OMG’s I am cryin in my latte’. I am so going to miss this show. Loved TOS and have waited all my adult years head out into the BSG vacuum of deep space again. Wish the ride wasn’t over. To the actors and re-imaginators, and all in the world of BSG, well done!
End of Line,
Cari Jimison
Yuba City, CA
March 18th, 2009 at 9:42 pm
Who knew rdm borrowed from peterpan.
You know that place between sleep and awake, the place where you can still remember dreaming? That’s where I’ll always love you,That’s where I’ll be waiting-Tinkerbell
So come with me, where dreams are born, and time is never planned. Just think of happy things, and your heart will fly on wings, forever, in Never Never Land!
You know, I have the strangest feeling that I’ve seen that ship before. A long time ago, when I was very young.-Mr Darling
Earth is neverland.lol.
March 18th, 2009 at 9:45 pm
Like the mr darling qutoe. Remined me of TOS.
March 18th, 2009 at 9:58 pm
@DarthRazorback and Tootie: I enjoyed both of your posts recapping some of BSG’s greatest moments and important contributions.
For me, two of my favorite scenes during Season 4 were between Admiral Adama and Col. Tigh.
First, I laughed out loud during that scene in “Deadlock” when Tigh admitted to the Admiral that his “great-grandpa was a power sander.”
Later, during “Islanded in a Sea of Stars” the final scene where the Admiral and Tigh toast “To Galactica…best ship in the fleet” goes down as one of the single best moments of the entire series.
I also loved the scene between Lee and Kara at the Memorial Wall. It re-established their connection in a very deep and heartfelt way. Watching Kara put her picture up on the wall was a great touch and really added to the emotional impact of the scene.
Bear McCreary’s score and his rich layering of instruments and musical styles has been so amazing throughout the entire series. It’s funny, I can remember thinking during the Miniseries how odd – almost tribal – the music sounded set to the beating of Japanese taiko drums. However, Bear quickly won me over and I looked forward to his music as much as to the story and characters. That scene with Kara playing the piano after she realized that Hera’s dots could be used as musical notes was the perfect fusion of score and story and a great moment in BSG. I absolutely know Bear will not disappoint in the finale.
Of course, there were many more moments and many more reasons why I choose to watch every week. This was the first TV show that inspired my interest enough to participate in an online dialogue. Reading your thoughts and comments – in addition to so many others on BSGCast – has greatly added to my personal BSG experience…
I’ll be sad to see it all end…
March 18th, 2009 at 10:45 pm
Anders… the military tactician.
When he was being interviewed in the tub, sounded like military tactics to me. “The perfect step, the perfect block”.
I cant see any of the recent flashbacks NOT being relevant to the upcoming big fight.
I think on earth he must have been in the military, or into military tactics. Another reason hes a good match for Starbuck.
Another reason he got the raiders to turn away when he “switched on”. It would make since for him to be hooked up to the CIC.
He could potentially influence the older models to fight the new ones if he gets connected. Also I seem to recall someone say the damage caused by Boomer’s jump having relevancy to the final fight. So Anders could jump the Galactica from near the colony, doing damage. Really I’m just speculating but it makes since to me.
ONE DAY LEFT. To Galactica. So Say We All !
What do you guys think?
Mat and Nat? Feel free to give me the prize for that one, lol.
March 18th, 2009 at 11:13 pm
@Centurion005: Yes, who knew indeed.
Peter Pan and BSG – not quite a “chocolate and peanut butter” pairing, but somehow it worked.
As long as “Anderstar Galactisam” doesn’t jump to the “second star on the right and straight on ‘til morning”, I think we’ll be okay.
Well, maybe he should be kept unplugged – just in case.
March 18th, 2009 at 11:35 pm
Wow…. I just had a moment.
I don’t know if this theory is original but here goes.
Gaeta talked to Baltar about his love of architecture and such. And at the end he said he hopes people realizes who he really is. Baltar responds with… “I know who you are”. He was smoking too. Gaeta had memories that he blocked out. And RDM gave us the webisodes that chronicles Gaeta’s past, on new Caprica, and his situation being stranded on the raptor. Why all this attention to Gaeta?
He was getting jealous of all the attention to the Cylons, for example when he was in Cottle’s hospital (Jealous God). And just before his execution the mysterious pain in his leg stops. Gaeta seemed… corrupted. The reason the producers decided to put this arch in the last ten episodes was because it is another revelation and it is relevant to the Pythian prophecies and current cycle. Anyway, I say all this to say….
Gaeta is Danial
The jealous Cylon god who leads a rebellion.
March 18th, 2009 at 11:48 pm
@Goku is Cylon: I think Anders gained his knowledge of military tactics as the leader of the Caprica Resistance on Cylon occupied Caprica after the fall.
Prior to the fall, he was captain of a professional Pyramid team, the Caprica Buccaneers. You could make a case that he gained some applicable tactical skill as captain of the Buccaneers. Gen. Douglas MacArthur stated that “Upon the fields of friendly strife, are sown the seeds that upon other fields, on other days, will bear the fruits of victory.”
I believe he was a guitarist and research scientist back on the “Earth” of the Thirteenth Tribe – not that any skills he learned on “Earth” would be particularly relevant, since they are 2,000 years out of practice (but maybe that doesn’t matter to Cylons).
However, I think the decisive advantage Anders is going to have in the coming battle against Cavil’s Colony of Doom will be “connected” (pardon the pun) to his hybridization into “Anderstar Galactisam”. It has already been shown that a Cylon Raider refused to fire on him as a Viper pilot, so it would be reasonable to conclude that they may not fire on him now.
What have the Cylons been up to anyway? We have had almost no visibility to what’s been going on over at the Colony of Doom. I wouldn’t be surprised if Cavil ends up with a rebellion on his hands after the Centurions had enough time to stew on Baltar’s comments (remember his little chat?). We know the Raiders were becoming self aware, so maybe the Centurions have as well – thanks to Baltar’s remarkable ability to sow chaos wherever he goes.
RDM has put a lot of pieces in motion and there is going to be action and mayhem a-plenty before the dust settles and the end credits roll.
“Hold on to your butts”, the ride gets rough from here…
March 19th, 2009 at 12:45 am
Tootie, watched the kufo interviews. Too cool. Q&A was great. Thanks for posting. I wish I could see BSG on the big screen with scifi-like minded folks. “Tiberius1111 Says: Reading your thoughts and comments – in addition to so many others on BSGCast – has greatly added to my personal BSG experience…” Ditto…..
CJimison
March 19th, 2009 at 1:12 am
@Goku is Cylon: I think Anders gained his knowledge of military tactics as the leader of the Caprica Resistance on Cylon occupied Caprica after the fall.
Prior to the fall, he was captain of a professional Pyramid team, the Caprica Buccaneers. You could make a case that he gained some applicable tactical skill as captain of the Buccaneers. Gen. Douglas MacArthur stated that “Upon the fields of friendly strife, are sown the seeds that upon other fields, on other days, will bear the fruits of victory.”
I believe he was a guitarist and research scientist back on the “Earth” of the Thirteenth Tribe – not that any skills he learned on “Earth” would be particularly relevant, since they are 2,000 years out of practice (but maybe that doesn’t matter to Cylons).
However, I think the decisive advantage Anders is going to have in the coming battle against Cavil’s Colony of Doom will be “connected” (pardon the pun) to his hybridization into “Anderstar Galactisam”. It has already been shown that a Cylon Raider refused to fire on him as a Viper pilot, so it would be reasonable to conclude that they may not fire on him now.
What have the Cylons been up to anyway? We have had almost no visibility to what’s been going on over at the Colony of Doom. I wouldn’t be surprised if Cavil ends up with a rebellion on his hands after the Centurions had enough time to stew on Baltar’s comments (remember his little chat?). We know the Raiders were becoming self aware, so maybe the Centurions have as well – thanks to Baltar’s remarkable ability to sow chaos wherever he goes.
RDM has put a lot of pieces in motion and there is going to be action and mayhem a-plenty before the dust settles and the end credits roll.
“Hold on to your butts”, the ride gets rough from here…
@mwalmal@oakland.edu: I agree that there was a lot of time devoted to developing Gaeta’s character in the episodes leading up the mutiny and his eventual execution. At this point, I am not convinced that we will see him again. I liked the complexities of Gaeta’s character and it would be nice to think we may see him in the finale. However, because there are so many open story arcs for RDM to deal with, I think Gaeta’s story sadly ended with his execution.
Now, your theory that Daniel = the one jealous God is an interesting one and – I think – unique to this forum (at least to this thread).
I have come to believe that Daniel (a.k.a. Number Seven) was a good Cylon – a patron of art and music – and beloved by Ellen. This point may prove to be inconsistent with a jealous God responsible for starting the war that destroyed Kobol. We know that John Cavil corrupted all of the copies of Daniel out of spite/jealousy, but I thought it was plausible that Ellen would protect the ORIGINAL and the first Daniel could still exist unbeknownst to John Cavil. If Daniel was alive, where would Ellen hide him?
Because of Daniel’s connection with art and music, I thought it would be interesting for him to be connected to the God Apollo and therefore Lee Adama. This would fulfill Leoben’s prophecy that “Adama is a Cylon”. Moreover, Apollo is closely associated with music and poetry (like Daniel) and is the patron God of colonies and of flocks (sounds like the role of the “de facto” president of the Twelve Colonies of Kobol). BTW, Apollo’s sister is Artemis, the Huntress (hmmm, sounds a little like Kara Thrace). It’s a fun possibility as it would explain the deep connection that exists between Starbuck and Apollo.
However, according to sources I have read, RDM stated unequivocally in the podcast for “Islanded in a Stream of Stars” that Daniel was not Starbuck’s father and would not be playing a role in the resolution of the series. Based on that, we will likely NOT see or hear anything more about Daniel. We can theorize all we want, but as far as RDM is concerned, Daniel is just a dead Cylon.
Earlier in this thread it was theorized that John Cavil is the archetype evil LOK and frontrunner as the one jealous God. If RDM is going to answer this question for us, I think John Cavil is the best guess based on what we currently know. Anyway…
Even without appearances from Daniel or Gaeta in “Daybreak, Part II”, we still have an unbelievable amount of ground to cover in only two hours of commercial ridden television (thank the Gods for DVR).
Thanks so much for your feedback and kind response.
March 19th, 2009 at 1:20 am
Sorry for the double post…please scroll down that same post above to my intended response beginning with: @mwalmal@oakland.edu.
It’s late and I’m tired…I guess I have finally crossed over to true obsession…
Well after Friday, I can get back to RL again. How depressing.
March 19th, 2009 at 3:09 am
I think we need to quit nerding over this show already and accept it for what it is. Get some sleep for fraks sake.
March 19th, 2009 at 4:35 am
Having just watched the Last Frakkin’ Special, I am VERY psyched about the finale! All the little tiny tidbits they threw at us about what will happen were very lovely.
For all the Lee/Kara fans, I have a feeling that there will be a very schmoopy resolution for them. In the LFS, we see Katee and Jamie filming a flashback scene with the two of them kissing (while still dressed in the same outfits that they first met in)… There’s also Michael Trucco stating that “you can’t have the two leads getting together to quickly, so throw in Anders…” Is that to imply that they will end up together after all?
As a bit of a Sam/Kara fan, I can’t help but feel a little cheated because of how genuinely Kara cared for Sam after he was shot, and how much she invested herself into his recuperation, and then in visiting him even though he was technically braindead. If the writers forego all that build up, and just stick her with Lee, I won’t know whether to laugh or cry.
Anyhoo…not long to go now. Damn but I’m looking foward to Daybreak II & III.
March 19th, 2009 at 8:05 am
@Kattie
I have to concur with you appraisal, if the writers decide to take the “easy” route out with a Lee/Kara “happy ending” (although happy endings, to be fair, have been few and far between in BSG) it will cheat the fans about of a ‘proper’ resolution especially, as you said, with the writers have invested so much time in Kara caring about the state of Anders. My thoughts are that they’ll have a kiss at some point but they won’t be together come the end of the episode…also worth thinking any kiss between the two could be a “farewell” moment. But if they do as you say you hope doesn’t happen, stick her with Lee then I’m out.
@Tootie
I told you, to pick out moments from Season 4 which stand out as absolute classics in the series is difficult, very difficult. The shot of Earth is quite the midseason cliff hanger, but the way we arrive to that conclusion at a Faster Than Light speed detracts somewhat from the feel of it.
But to add to the other list of “great moments” how could we forget “The Adama Manoeuvre”. Take THAT Jean Luc Picard!
March 19th, 2009 at 8:24 am
Yes,
Tiberius1111,
I agree, for the use of music alone, BSG has redefined television and I personally put it on a pedestal.
Thank you for reminding me of Bear’s truly astounding part in this.
Encourage everyone to visit Galactica Sitrep when you have a moment. Tons of good stuff there.
Matt and Nat!??!
March 19th, 2009 at 9:35 am
One final post before the finale tomorrow. I was looking up the phrase “all this has happened before” to see it’s origin and I got an interesting wikipedia entry about Eternal Return. It “is a concept which posits that the universe has been recurring, and will continue to recur in a self-similar form an infinite number of times. The concept has roots in ancient Egypt (lots of Egyptian motifs in TOS), and was subsequently taken up by the Pythagoreans (similar root to Pythia) … Time is viewed as being not linear but cyclical (cycle/cylon).”
All the cultures mentioned at the beginning of TOS were cultures that believed in this idea – The Egypians (builders of the pyramids), The Greeks (Atlantis), The Mayans and the Toltec (I’m assuming on the Toltec since they were the precursers to the Mayans).
And one of the most important books dealing with Final return is called “The unbearable lightness of Being” (similar to Beings of Light?). Is there a connection – I don’t know but I found it interesting.
Thanks to everyone that has posted here, it’s been a great place to put theories out and on some occasions vent about my favorite show not living up to its potential. The sci-fi boards (or syfy as we’re supposed to call it now) are always too cluttered with junk and full of giant pasted quotes from previous post and unnecessary pictures from every poster. BSG cast is so much better – easier to read, friendlier, less cluttered and most important full of great theories and comments. Thanks Matt and Nat for creating this for us. Thanks for my Alienware shirt and giving me hope (although short lived) about getting a new TV.
If anyone is in Texas, the Alamo Drafthouse Theaters will be showing all three hours of the finale. I don’t know how busy it will be but I’m gonna get there early just in case. Doors open at 6:00.
Mike Perez
Houston, TX
March 19th, 2009 at 9:36 am
Mabey theyll land in michael jacksons backyard.Since thats neverland and all. That guy is like a really bad skinjob gone horribly wrong.
March 19th, 2009 at 10:01 am
Kattie,
I haven’t seen the Last Frakking Special as Space hasn’t shown it here in Canada. Grrrrrrrrr.
(If anyone can point me to a place on the web I can view this, it would be much appreciated.)
Now, if Daybreak Part 2 shows Kara and Lee making out while she’s dating Zak, then that changes things a lot for me…..and everyone I’d assume.
Now Kara appears even more self-absorbed and dishonest in her relationships, Lee doesn’t seem the shiny golden boy so much, their relationship has a deeper history than we have been led to believe.
…it also explains why she couldn’t dump Anders and marry Lee on New Caprica. She just couldn’t do that. She’d already fooled around with Lee on two guys and couldn’t go any further at that point (although she was fooling around with Lee again after the wedding)…it shows she follows a pattern. She’ll betray, but only so far. She was going to marry Zak. She married Anders and wouldn’t divorce him. On another level, it makes her more confusing than ever. If she had a connection and attraction to Lee from the start, why didn’t she get together with him on Galactica. She was like a daughter to the Old Man, and a replacement for Zak, I guess. But I’m sure Adama would have been fine with his son and ‘daughter’ getting together. It would have been weird at first, but….
Ok that’s it. Last comment for this thread. Promise.
March 19th, 2009 at 10:38 am
Thought I would share this link. http://www.space.com/entertainment/090318-battlestar-un.html
Several members of BSG spoke at the UN the other night tying some of the issues raised on BSG with real-world issues. EJOlmos “stole the show” when he/Adama was talking about race – saying that there is only the human race and nothing else. At the end of his presentation he cried “So say we all!” The audience responded in kind, then went into wild applause.
Way cool.
March 19th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
I just can’t seem to pull myself away from this forum…
@Pavlov’s God: Yes, I really like BSG’s use of the concept of “Eternal Return” (or Recurrence) and have theorized about it often on this forum. I also completely agree with your comments about the people of BSGCast – well stated!
@Kattie and Tootie: I am also looking forward to the Lee/Kara/Sam story arc resolving itself during the finale, but sadly, there doesn’t seem to be a happy ending awaiting the trio. Let’s hope for a little happiness for them…assuming any survive the coming battle. It can’t ALL end badly, can it?
@Shauna: Thank you so much for sharing that article about BSG and the UN (I hadn’t seen that before). Maybe there is hope for Humanity – maybe we do have the ability to change and break the senseless – eternal – cycle of violence and live together in peace as one Human Race. Now, if we can just get Bear McCreary to do a version of “Kum-Ba-Ya” set to pounding taiko drums…
AND FINALLY…
@Centurion005: OMG, I think you’re onto something BIG! Let’s take your theory one more step – Jacko is Daniel! It’ so obvious – they both love music, they’re both mechanical representations of Humans, Peter Pan/Neverland Ranch, the list goes on… Looking at it that way, John Cavil did the Cylons a favor by poisoning the Daniel copies. One Jacko per universe is a very good rule!
Thanks for sharing!
March 19th, 2009 at 12:43 pm
Apologies if this has been said before I haven’t read every reply yet.
At first I was really frustrated at the flashback scenes and just wanted some story but after thinking about it for a bit it seems to have opened up a more realistic possibility to me.
The fact that we are suddenly introduced to the ONE parent from both Baltar and Roselin but specifically NOT the other for either character. This could mean that the missing parent in both cases are cylons? Which would make both Baltar and Roselin Cybrids. As people seem to agree that Starbuck is already a Cybrid with the possibility of her dad being the missing number 7.
Hera, Starbuck, Roselin and Baltar all share common ‘abilities’ a sort of pseudo projection (e.g. head characters, the boat, the visions between jumps) or in heras case just plain projection
. All are connected to the angels in what ever way you interpret that. Also theres still the question did Baltar die on Caprica?
Looking forward to the end now thanks Matt and Natt for the BSG casts they have kept me entertained midweek between BSGs for over a year now
.
March 19th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
Im surprised they didnt mention any of katies,tooties,Shaunas,Tiberius1111s,vice_verseds,pavlos,or my comments. All great ideas. Im especialy suprised they didnt mention the reagen speech thing.Oh well. Great comments everybody. I probably wont post any more unitl daybreak pt2.But there is one question. What are matt or nats screen names when or if they post comments here?
March 19th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
Well, tonight is our very last BSG Eve…
…tomorrow we will know the truth.
I encourage and hope EVERYONE comes back to BSGCast after the finale to share their parting thoughts on the episode in particular and the series in general. Kudos to Matt + Nat for facilitating this for us.
I would really feel like I missed out if I didn’t get a chance to read the final musings and opinions of the people of BSGCast! We’ll send the Grand Old Lady off into television history in style!
Thanks, and I’ll see you on the other side…”It’s been an honor.”
March 19th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
There are those who still and will always believe…
By your command we sign off
SoSayWeAll
ps. Shauna you have a video link of it?
March 19th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
I didn’t want to comment on this episode because I was afraid. It essentially is part of a three hour finale. The final three hours. After this, then what? I’ll be lost. I watch one show, and this is it (occasionally I’ll rewatch X-files, some Twilight Zones, or one of the Star Treks, but this is it. My Friday’s will consist of…going out? In the immortal words of Tigh, “Woooooooooooo….” I’ve been watching as an addict since the miniseries. I mean, I know these characters as if I know them. Obsessed fan of the show? No, just a man who had a life changing experience with this show. This show gave me reason to understand our world a little better. Can you all feel the tension in the air? It ends tomorrow. All of it. Yes, we have The Plan, but it is not part of the big picture, just some filler. I’m so afraid of this end more than any other show’s end because after this, it’s all over. I won’t be hopping from forum to forum under various personas to talk to people about it. I won’t be hosting anymore of my Frak Parties that I am wont to have on many Fridays (sucked when I had to have some on Sunday in the third season) for my friends. My frak room will be closed to Battlestar Galactica and open for something else. This end is bittersweet though. I’m so happy to see everything as a whole, but once the last scene hits and the credits roll I am as lost as Starbuck.
The episode forced me to remember the characters as they once were and show how much they have changed. I believe the only reason that Baltar did not go across was because is people would follow him and he did not want them in danger. I think he will go and the show will go out with a bang (oh, and from The Last Frakk’n Special…Adama in a Viper…FRAK YEAH!). Here’s a drink to the end. To quote from a genius (Ronald D. Moore), “It’s the characters stupid.” And so it ends….Actual out…End Transmission———————
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My website/e-mail was hacked under, losing both under deletions you can comment me or message me at http://www.youtube.com/steveandgeorgeshow about tomorrow. I apologize for this change.
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-Mario
March 19th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
@Tiberius1111
Goku is Cylon and mwalmal@oakland.edu is actually one in the same person… Me!
Or rather copies of the 13th Cylon…lol
Anyways… To say that Danial is Geata and he was the jealous god doesn’t necessarily imply evil. Although his actions were not favorable, he did have good intentions. If he were Danial/Cylon he wouldn’t know it. Danial WAS corrupted, and his rebellion was meant to undo the ties with the Cylons that Adama had made. And thinking about the prophecy it was one god against the rest. idk I’m sure I’m wrong, I’m just saying it not outside the realm of possibility.
In response to Anders theory. Anders of coarse got his memories back once he was shot. And if he were a military genius on Earth those instincts would never have left him even after his memory loss. But he would have found a career where he could exercise them, lets say Pyramid. He said he didn’t care about the game or about the cup or whatever, just the physics of the perfect play. Anyway, I’m sure about this one, and that flashback has to be relevant to his current condition else it would be pointless. This is the only rational conclusion I could come up with. But I guess we will find out tomorrow at 9pm
To Galactica… So say we all
March 19th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
I found the un thing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSFDrOxWCXY
“There is but one race, and that is the Human race!” “SO SAY WE ALL!”-Edward Olmos aka Admiral Adama
Looks like the crew of the Galactica made it to Earth after all.
March 19th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
Thank you, Centurion005. Youtube is blocked at my school account.
March 19th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
“Humanity’s final chapter is about to be written, and you will be its author, Gaius.”
I think this line may have more importance than I may have thought. I’m not sure how many of you are familiar with Ian McEwan’s novel Atonement, but basically, there’s something of a twist near the end where it is revealed that the last half hour or so was a complete fabrication (within the world of the novel) constructed by the narrator to atone for something she had done earlier in the story.
Back to the Six quote…maybe the mission to rescue Hera fails horribly, Galactica is destroyed, no one hears from them again, etc. But…we see it go off reasonably well (yeah, some deaths, but you get the idea)…perhaps something happens and they do not come back, but their demise is a bit more heroic or something to that effect. Basically, the latter part of the story is something fabricated by Baltar to give the story a ‘better’ ending.
This would still leave for some questions, such as how much is actual fact and how much is Baltar’s fabrication, but this could also explain several other things that have popped up., for example…
* Maybe Hera is a McGuffin, with no purpose but to give the Colonials a ‘justifiable’ reason to go after Cavil.
* Kara is being characterized as…something, possibly explaining her superior piloting skills, and again, some of the elements (like the super nova) being McGuffins to give her character more purpose.
* Head Six could be the ‘guardian angel’ on Baltar’s shoulder, basically giving him pushes in the direction he’s going in when a situation comes up that he doesn’t know how to deal with.
It’s not 100% waterproof, but it could serve as an interesting way of explaining things we don’t know as things Baltar didn’t know. The flashbacks? Maybe anecdotes about the characters that were gathered after the fact from people who knew them. Again, it’s not a perfect theory, but I’m sure all will become apparent when the finale airs tomorrow.
March 19th, 2009 at 7:24 pm
@tootie I watched the Last frakin special last night on surfthechannel.com under “channels” choose “TV”
March 19th, 2009 at 7:28 pm
Last Frakin special is also up on scifi.com if anyone has missed it
March 19th, 2009 at 7:28 pm
WHAT BATTLESTAR MEANS TO ME:
This is not a comment or a theory so much as a farewell letter to all my fellow BSG (and BSGcast) friends and family here.
Over the last couple of years I have gotten to know so many of you through the BSGcast and through Battlestar Prometheus and I count myself as blessed for the experience. We have all taken this long journey together from the ruins of the colonies, to Kobol and the tomb of Athena, to New Caprica and the Algae planet with the Temple of Hopes (aka the Temple of the Five), all the way to Earth and beyond.
Along the way we have all made new friends thanks to this show, even as we watched some of our favorite characters fade away.
Now we are just over 24 hours away from the grand finale and I find myself ina bittersweet mood. Battlestar Galactica means so much to me. It was the show back in the 70’s that first got me hooked on sci-fi and it is the show that had brought my writing talents to the fore and set me on a path to finding my own dreams and making them come true.
In short (I know how cliche’ this sounds so forgive me) Battlestar changed my life and I am thankful for it.
To all of you whom I have shared this wonderful and sometimes heartbreaking journey with, I say to you never stop dreaming. Never give up and never be afraid to roll the hard six.
To Matt and Nat, my two wonderful friends from north of the border (EH!), thank you so much for taking the time to bring us all together. I wish you both nothing but good luck and great fortune and I look forward to many more years of friendship and fun from you! See you on the Capricast!
May the path you walk be long and prosperous and your lives filled with joy and happiness.
So say we all.
~R
March 19th, 2009 at 7:55 pm
Yes, the Oracle is here for ONE FINAL SET of predictions for BSG. Look upon my works ye mighty and tremble!!
**CERTIFIED SPOILER FREE!!**
A: HOW IT ALL ENDS
1. Head Six, Head Baltar and Slick (the piano player) are all beings of light (aka the Lords of Kobol). They appear and are seen as people who mean the most to them. Their purpose is to prepare Kara and Baltar and maybe Six to become like themselves and guide the next generation of humans and Cylons. Notice that all three have done horrific things in their past and that these characters are somehow being redeemed.
2. Galactica will die but not like everyone says. She will die peacefully with Laura Roslin still inside her. Galactica will become her tomb in space.
3. It will be Lee who leads the Human and Cylon races to unity on a new world.
4. Boomer will die saving Hera but will kill Cavil in the process.
6. Tory will turn on the other four and die for her efforts. She might even be the one pulling Cavil’s strings?
7. The final four will accompany the humans and cylons to the new Earth.
8. The final scene of BSG will be (SEE BOTTOM OF POST FOR THE ANSWER)
B: WTF IS UP WITH THE FLASHBACKS???
1. Lee is drunk and chasing a pigeon because he instantly fell for Kara but couldn’t have her because of his love for his brother. (He might have even slept with her while Zak was passed out???) The pigeon flying away represents Lee chasing what he cannot capture.
2. Laura has her flashback because her family is awaiting her across the great river. I hope we see Nana VIstor there too along with Billy and everyone else that has been lost. We also see her starting out for Adar.
3. The Adama flashback is anyone’s guess but I think it has something to do with him making a political stump. Maybe he meets Laura there?
There you have it folks. My final predictions. As for the last scene in BSG that I alluded to above…..
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Keep going
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A little farther…
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The final scene in BSG will take place in a prominent place on the Earth we now know. NY City, Wash D.C., Moscow, or somewhere with discernible landmarks. I think we will see Baltar, Six and Kara walking amongst our people to emphasize the theme that all of this has happened before and will happen again.
BOOYAH!!!!
March 19th, 2009 at 8:23 pm
Tiberius111: “Because of Daniel’s connection with art and music, I thought it would be interesting for him to be connected to the God Apollo and therefore Lee Adama. This would fulfill Leoben’s prophecy that “Adama is a Cylon”. Moreover, Apollo is closely associated with music and poetry (like Daniel) and is the patron God of colonies and of flocks (sounds like the role of the “de facto” president of the Twelve Colonies of Kobol). BTW, Apollo’s sister is Artemis, the Huntress (hmmm, sounds a little like Kara Thrace). It’s a fun possibility as it would explain the deep connection that exists between Starbuck and Apollo.”
Actually having taught Ancient History and being a huge mythology geek, I have tried to see them as the twins. Jacob from TWOP always calls them the twins when he talks about them in his recaps. However there are a few major differences:
They are not really bro and sis, but the connection is like blood, as it’s so deep.
Artemis, hated men, remember? She cursed that one man who saw her w/her nymphs bathing naked–she is also a virgin and as you say the Huntress, and Goddess of the Moon. She was harsh and and unwielding in her punishment and temper. This was exactly like her brother–harsh, and unrelenting w/punishment. But when you were on his good side, all was well, but when not, you end up like poor Kassandra: predicting the fall of Troy to no avail.
Anyway: I could never make those connections except at a very, very simplistic level. Apollo is god of the sun, which makes sense as Adama, would then be Zeus. But all the characteristics of Apollo, including the fact he was also god of music, have nothing to do w/our Apollo. As Lee, never had a bad temper, he drank, but mostly he had sex to make himself feel better. Kara drank, and got around. However, she stopped doing that before season 2.5–as she had an encounter w/Anders, and she fell in love w/Lee, and alcohol became her main drug of choice.
thoughts?
A
March 19th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
Hey all,
just read this article http://io9.com/5175958/daniel-was-battlestars-biggest-fiasco-says-ron-moore?skyline=true&s=x
so Daniel is not important at all as it turns out…lol…..unless he is just trying to keep us on our toes…
March 19th, 2009 at 10:07 pm
This is Awesome!! I actually won something!! This cheers me up a bit since all the shows I obsess over are ending in a short time period. X_X Lets see, The L Word finished 2 weeks ago, BSG TOMORROW!, and Gundam 00 next week. So is there any info I gotta send in Matt + Nat?
March 20th, 2009 at 4:04 am
I can’t understand how RDM and the other writers couldn’t predict what the reaction to throwing Daniel at us was going to be. Four years of saying ‘there are twelve models’, ‘only twelve’, ‘final five’ etc. etc.
You throw in a 13th, and they’re surprised that we latch on? WTF?! Especially seeing as where they threw it in. The reveal of Ellen Tigh as the Final Cylon was an episode that was chok full of information. SIGNIFICANT information!! This was stuff we’d been waiting for, and wanting to see. It was important, ground-breaking stuff that answered a lot of questions and brought up a whole host of others.
And they’re surprised that we ran with Daniel theories? Sheesh. Seriously, they need to do a little more market research if they didn’t know the kafuffle that would cause.
Alright…no more Daniel theories…at least, not canon theories at least. Long live the realm of fanfiction!
(Oh, by the way, that planet ain’t Jupiter either, according to the Podcast for Stream of Stars. Why the hell do they create visual effects that resemble our own galaxy so much if they don’t want us to jump to that thought?)
Heh, also thought it a little entertaining that RDM called it ‘Islanded in a Sea of Stars’. Obviously he has bigger things to worry about, but…*shrug*
Anyhoo…two more days for me before Daybreak II & III. Damn Australia for not airing 4.5 yet. *prods network* *prod* *prod*
Alright. Have a good weekend people!
March 20th, 2009 at 5:08 am
@Athena: Thanks for your feedback…I would have liked it even better if you offered a compelling, alternative explanation. “Adama is a Cylon” is a powerful indictment – but which Adama is it? Or, do you think that Leoben’s statement was intentional subterfuge? I would be interested to hear your thoughts.
Anyway, I’ll bite…however, I want to preface my comments by stating that this is all in good fun and I watch BSG and participate in this forum solely for entertainment and personal enjoyment. This is not a scholarly pursuit for me, and neither is it for RDM I suspect. I don’t think anyone on the writing staff keeps their high school copy of Aeschylus “Agamemnon” handy (I know I don’t).
To begin, I absolutely don’t remember – nor do I believe – that Artemis “hates men”. I think that is a false conclusion (sorry). Artemis loves her chastity and is a fierce defender of her purity. Her acts of retribution were in defense of her purity and NOT motivated by a simple hatred of men. In fact, the example you chose illustrates my point very well:
While Artemis was bathing in the woods, the hunter Actaeon stumbled across her and saw her naked body. He stopped and stared, amazed at her beauty. To protect her chastity, Artemis forbade him speech — if he ever tried to speak, he would be changed into a stag — for the “unlucky profanation of her virginity’s mystery”. When he heard the sound of his hunting party approach, he called out to them and immediately was changed into a stag. His own hounds, not recognizing him, turned upon him and tore him to pieces.
It is an erroneous and modern feministic interpretation of Artemis that views her as a hater of men. She punished men who disrespected her, she punished men who raped women, she punished men who killed her beloved animals and in defense of the innocent. She also killed women in similar acts of retribution. You could rightly argue that she hated – and often killed – any person (men and women both) who disrespected her, threatened her chastity or harmed an innocent. She wasn’t the patron Goddess of hatred, she simply believed that wrong shall be avenged by violence, and that in consequence, the perpetrator must pay dearly. And they did – just not out of hatred.
Artemis even LOVED (yes, loved) another male figure in addition to Apollo. According to one version, written by Gaius Julius Hyginus, Artemis fell in love with the hunter Orion, who showed her the proper respect. She even considered relinquishing her vow of chastity to marry Orion but out of jealousy, Apollo tricked Artemis into killing Orion. Remember, people were the playthings of the Gods in Greek Mythology and this behavior was commonplace among them.
Artemis is also associated with death and more than ANY other character in BSG, Kara Thrace is connected to death. Remember the Hybrid prophecies, her corpse in the crashed viper, Baltar’s analysis of the necrotic blood on her dog tags, and Kara putting her own picture up on the Wall.
I also find myself in disagreement with your very narrow interpretation of Apollo. Like most of the other Greek Gods he could be vengeful, but this is only a single facet and not at all how he was revered by the ancient Greeks. Do you really not see ANY characteristic of the God Apollo that could be connected to “our” Apollo? I find that surprising, given your volunteered credentials – I’ll bet you could if you tried…
The mythological Apollo – in addition to being a patron of music (only one facet) – was very skilled with his weapons (like Lee – as a Viper pilot), was the patron God of Colonists (like Lee – as the president of the Twelve Colonies), was associated with law and religious healing giving those guilty of murder and other immoral deeds a ritual purification (like Lee – helping to acquit Baltar), was associated with healing (like Lee – offering to stop the cycle of violence to help “heal” the mistrust between Humans and Cylons), was depicted in art as a very handsome and clean shaven young man (like Lee – I suppose???). I think this makes my point. BTW, I also think the constellation Ophiuchus (the Serpent Bearer) which has a connection to Apollo (and his son Asclepius) – will be connected to the Thirteenth Tribe during the finale and aid in the discovery or “our” Earth (but that’s already been discussed in another post).
I found it interesting that one of the few things you mentioned about Apollo was his association with the sun and yet, the Greeks originally created Helios as their Sun God. It wasn’t until after Alexander the Great sparked their infatuation with the astral religions of the Near East that Apollo took on more of the role of the Sun God as the need for a more “impressive” and “high profile” representative deity increased. It is interesting to note that the Roman equivalent of Helios – is Sol – for which our own sun in named (and not Apollo).
Since you also brought up Cassandra…in Aeschylus “Agamemnon”, she made a promise to become Apollo’s consort, but later broke her vow to him. In exchange for her vow, Apollo gave her the gift of prophecy. Consider it the divine equivalent of an engagement ring. When Cassandra broke her vow to Apollo, he was understandably upset and wanted his “ring” back. In response, Apollo cursed her gift of prophecy (that he originally gave) so that no one would believe her. When she foresaw the destruction of Troy – including the Trojan Horse and the death of Agamemnon, no one believed her. It could certainly be argued that Cassandra provoked his anger through her rejection of his love and that he did not act solely because of an innately “harsh and unrelenting” disposition.
As you well know, it is impossible to reconcile all of the different incarnations of Artemis and Apollo (or any other Greek God) to one common source, or to one single idea. The very manner in which such a complicated mythos was formed renders the attempt futile. It is therefore unreasonable to expect “all or nothing” connections where as soon as one piece doesn’t have an obvious fit, the entire connection gets rejected.
Moreover, I absolutely believe that RDM would not EXACTLY conform his story to a single mythos as it would simply be too easy for the viewer to predict the outcome once the linkage had been established. Multiple elements from the Judeo/Christian tradition, eastern religious thought (e.g. Islam, Hindu) and even numerology have been introduced into the BSG universe further diverging the “truth” from a classically Hellenistic mythology. Like you, I just happen to like Greek Mythology and looking for connections in BSG is fun for me.
While I would welcome a continuation of this dialogue with you, we could spar endlessly splitting hairs and citing contradictory sources in refutation of any point made. For that reason, I would really like to know how you see – or would like to see – classical Greek mythology fit as part of the tapestry of the BSG universe.
Or, we could just wait to watch “Daybreak, Part II” and let RDM fill in the blanks for us. Then we can both analyze how he chose to resolve the big questions. I also think he will leave a few questions unanswered for fans to consider – and debate – for years to come.
Thanks for reading and – as ever – your kind response.
March 20th, 2009 at 5:25 am
theirs not really much more i can say hear after all that has been said expect that im very excieted about the last episode and im going to be very sad for it to end
So say we all
ps a good non spolier interview of Edward James Olmos, Mary McDonnell and creator Ronald D. Moore is on youtube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1EAZqKpuIg
March 20th, 2009 at 5:48 am
@tom b: Thanks for the post…I enjoyed watching the video.
If it turns out that BSG is an allegory for the events of 9-11, I have to believe that survival and re-birth will be themes that RDM uses in the finale.
“The night is darkest before the dawn”, and at Daybreak, we’ll find a new beginning.
So say we all.
March 20th, 2009 at 5:50 am
I think that Daniel’s name may be a reference to the Elton John song, especially this part:
“Daniel my brother you are older than me
Do you still feel the pain of the scars that won’t heal
Your eyes have died but you see more than I
Daniel you’re a star in the face of the sky”
Mybe RDM was leaving us a clue about Daniel’s true nature?
Maybe Daniel is still alive, in some manner?
Or RDM may just be frakking with us.
Also, I don’t know if I’m the first one to come up with this, but, it’s an idea.
March 20th, 2009 at 5:54 am
Or maybe to us, everything “looks like Daniel”. Must be the clouds in our eyes.
…
XD
March 20th, 2009 at 7:49 am
This may be a little late to comment on this, but I too believe Baltar may very well be more then we bargained for. How and why, I’m not sure. However, I was reading “Sagittarius is Bleeding” yesterday, and came across a tidbit between Head Six and Baltar that struck me. While others here have indeed mentionned the possibility, it appears that the novels admit to the thought that Baltar SHOULD BE DEAD because of the nuclear blast that destroyed his home and Caprica Six at the same time.
Here’s the exerpt:
“I just find it interesting that you’ve dismissed the idea out of hand”, she said, “After all, back on Caprica you crouched behind me and thus survived a nuclear explosion. That doesn’t strike you as odd? Your house blew apart around you. I was destroyed right in front of you. Yet you survived? Isn’t it far more likely that we were both destroyed, and your memories were simply transfered to a new body?”
Now of course, we already “know” Baltar is not a Cylon, so the last bit is irrelevant. What this makes me think is that Gauis is just like Kara. I’m hopeful we’ll find out if yes or no Baltar was killed in the blast… We’ve been getting some flashbacks, and I’m hoping this will be part of it. Otherwise, tough luck I guess lol
BTW, does anyone know if the novels are considered cannon?
On another note, I want to thank you, Matt and Nat, for those wonderful BSGCasts. I’ve watched them every week – albeit not quite posting on here, mainly because I’m not too good at theories. I’m very excited for tonight, but a bit sad as well…
To be honest, BSG has brought some things in my life, like getting closer to my father. Not that we weren’t close before, but we’ve found the common denominator that made both of us act like children in front of our favorite toys lol My father doesn’t speak english, unfortunately, and although Season 1 and 2 were translated to french, season 3 never made it, let alone season 4. So once in a while, I go at my father’s place and watch some BSG with him, translating what he doesn’t understand for him. It’s been a great experience, and it’s fun to be able to find something to draw us closer.
As for theories all of you have thrown up and down, you don’t know how much fun it’s been to read. I’m a little disapointed Daniel is not really important to the story, but as a writer and artist myself, I can see where RDM was coming from. Sometimes you write something, create something (an art piece for exemple), and YOU see everything clearly. But once the audience sees or reads the piece, you sometimes realize that what you thought was obvious to you, is not to others. To RDM, Daniel was not important, and he never realized, until the show was aired, that the audience would think so strongly of Daniel.
Well, I’m bracing myself for tonight.
March 20th, 2009 at 8:50 am
The “all this has happen and will happen again” try to get out of this vicious circle business … I finally go it! … it is in fact a strong message/solution/theory to the end of every war humanity faced, faces are will face. The way to break the circle showed is by the ability of the cyclone raiders to have the faculty to be able to ‘believe’ and the ability to make one with the human population (something even matrix3 show with their programmed child girl). Aka: merging people identity like the EU goal instead of having a nation per identity like India & Pakistan for contrast this being the only way to peace.
Ironical how a heavy army oriented series actually main message is offering the ultimate peace message. We go from hating the cylons for every thing they strand-for and represents in the mini-series, to doing a 180 perspective tune, in only 4 short series. Now we find ourselves, like Commander Adama, seeing there humanity and wanting them to start a melting pot with the human race! Heck we even have enough volunteers for a totally suicidal mission in this episode to prove that lol
BTW … just so that we are clear …the only cylone model there fighting against are the “brother tyrile” line-up and a fracked up 8. All the other model following him are in reality just misinformed or lobotomised
I like the fact that he is model nb1, makes it sound to me like no coincidence, implying that he is not a finished product, and so could cope with the changes laid up in front of him. Cool thought how him alone single handedly manage to silences the 5 original models and put the reverse gear on there project.
I can’t wait to be given an explication of the head’s/angels apparitions; my personal theory is that resurrection process has an inheritance flaw that makes cylon/human going though it become skysofrean. This resurrection unsolvable “flaw” makes resurrection not a valid long term solution. It would explain why the 13een tribe dropping it and reverted in using reproduction instead. This theory of mine would only hold up if Baltare was killed by the nuclear blast back on Caprica. Truly hope this will be reviled in this upcoming two-parter.
Could any one explain to me what’s up with Clara being 100% human! Was she then simply adopted by here father Dave (nb7)?
My favourite BSG quote in retrospects is the last words of S02E02 where colonel tie says “Thank the Gods I didn’t have kids”. Don’t you love the irony in this!
Ho … and one more thing…
Could the opera-house be actually happening in a totally different environment? with everyone experiencing it, simply sharing a common virtual projection around the real surroundings. I was toying with the idea since projection is having an incising role in the story, and also would offer a great in-you-face smack-up of what that crucial seen will truly be about.
March 20th, 2009 at 9:21 am
I just finished watching all 2 hours and 4 minutes of BSG at the UN. It was amazing. I cannot believe Edward James Olmos “So Say We All[-ed]” at the U.N. It is one of the most amazing things I ever seen. Everyone chanted after him. Brilliant, the whole thing. Congrats to the show for being honored at being there. Another reason how/why the show changed my life and how its relevance to our world is so great that people look to it for answers. So say we all!
-Mario
March 20th, 2009 at 11:07 am
Mario, is there a link I can follow to see Eddie at the UN?
C.Jimison
March 20th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
@The Almighty and Badassest Oracle: I enjoyed reading your post and the format was very entertaining *ahem* I mean suspenseful…
It’s good to see that most of your “oracular prophecies” concur with speculation previously made by other posters on BSGCast – we’re with you! You made a few points that I had not seen before (my apologies to anyone if I missed them) and those are worth calling out…
But first, I wanted to ask that you please consult your oracle for the meaning of the Baltar flashbacks. After watching the episode again, I think the hidden meaning may tie back to the Miniseries and Adama’s question during his speech at Galactica’s decommissioning ceremony: “Why are we – as a people, worth saving?”
Caprica Six clearly loved Baltar before the fall, but maybe it was the fatal flaws she saw in his character observing his blind narcissism and reprehensible treatment of his own father that caused her to judge Humanity as a whole as unworthy of survival. What say you, mighty oracle?
Moving on to your prophecies…
A:2. While everyone is in near unanimous agreement that Galactica will “die” in the finale, you suggested that it will be a peaceful death and become Roslin’s “tomb in space”. If done right, it could be a beautiful send off for them both – or they may both get resurrected by the same phenomenon that restored Kara and her Viper (nah, too Disney).
A:6. Tory will turn on the other Four and will die in the process – I hope we see some more of Tory and that she has a bigger role to play in the finale. Your prediction is certainly possible and it would be a huge plot twist if it ALSO turned out she was the one pulling the strings as the power behind the throne. Yes, we “might want to ponder what else – we’re – wrong about.”
B:1. Several people have already suggested that the bird Lee was chasing in his apartment was a “Love Dove” representing Kara, but I really liked your explanation of Lee’s flashback that it showed he had an instant attraction to Kara but couldn’t act on it because of Zak. I think you may have nailed that one.
B:2. I’m not sure you got the exact meaning of Roslin’s flashback, but I think you nailed what we are going to see on screen. I also made an immediate connection to Nana Visitor’s character in “Faith” and would love to see her again in Laura’s dying vision just as she crosses the river to the Fields of Elysium. It would be great to see everyone who has died including her family, Billy, Dualla (maybe even Gaeta) welcoming Laura home at last. Just beautiful!
B:3. The Adama flashback – that one has everyone stumped, it was just too vague to be put into a meaningful context. Please consult your oracle again for more clarity! We want to know!
Lastly, your final scene in BSG…most people now believe that “our” Earth will be seen in “Daybreak, Part II” and it will become the final destination of the Human and rebel Cylon survivors (which may only include Baltar and Caprica Six as the sole survivors). The controversy lies in WHEN they will discover “our” Earth. Visually, I think it would be great to see Baltar and Caprica Six strolling down Fifth Avenue in NYC – joined hand-in-hand. Then just as we realize they are walking here among us now, Bear’s Cylon theme music starts, and the scene fades to black. End of line. Perfect!
Even though I think this is a very strong possibility, how does the oracle reconcile the continuity issue with the First Hybrid’s prophecy that “they will join at the promised land, gathered on the wings of an angel. Not an end, but a beginning.” Or Caprica’s prophecy that “The end times are approaching. Humanity’s final chapter is about to be written and you – you – will be its author.”
Aha!!! Actually, this could really work! What if the “end times” are meant for us and Humanity’s “final chapter” is our own (and not theirs). Consequently, when Baltar and Caprica Six arrive at the “promised land”, it marks the “beginning” of Cylons and Humans living together on “our” Earth and thus the cycle of eternal recurrence “begins anew in ways uncertain.” It’s not the hopeful message of survival and re-birth I would like to see BSG end on, but it is a plausible outcome.
Overall, your post was well done and very thought provoking. Thanks for sharing it with us!
Whatever happens, I know this:
RDM will not fail us – the finale is going to be amazing!
March 20th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
This has all happened before.
And will happen again.
This also represents the phoenix. The new rising from the ashes of the old in an eternal cycle. In early Christianity the resurrection of Jesus was represented by the phoenix rather than the cross.In the bible it says that the universe will be destroyed with all the “elements” ripping apart. But then God will create a new heavens and a new Earth.The dove shown could also be a connection to the phoenix. The black hole could represent the ending of the cycle. Meaning that anything that goes into a black hole is sucked into oblivion and destroyed from existence.
I am the alpha and omega, beginning and the end. End of line.
The top is just something that would be neat for a hyrbid to say. Doesn’t really have anything to do with the phoenix part except for that god is eternal like the cycle.Mainly I thought it just sounded like a good line.
March 20th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
I hope the black hole protecting Cavil’s Colony of Doom is just a device needed to force a direct – point blank – confrontation with Galactica and not some sci-fi trickery to alter time.
Yeah, then we’ll learn that the first “Cybrid” was really the fusion of Maximilian and Dr. Reinhardt and they have been waiting at the bottom of the Black Hole for the Galactica to rescue them ever since the Cygnus was destroyed by that meteor shower.
What’s next??? We’ll flashback to Caprica before the fall and learn that Ellen’s maiden name was DeWalt, of maybe Craftsman.
I really think RDM will keep it “real” and there won’t be any black hole time shifting involved with the finale.
March 20th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
Time shifting black hole stuff is real.
March 20th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
Maximilian and Dr. Reinhardt what? Who are what are they wand where are they from? What meteor shower? Your not making any sense.
March 20th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
There is a fault in cpu error processor overload.MK2 flux capacitor offline. Preparing auto destruct. Auto destruct sequence initiated.There must be some way out of here. 5,4,3,2,1End of line.
-Anders final line.
March 20th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
@Centurion005: You are absolutely correct, according to Einstein’s theory of general relativity, massive objects create distortions in space and time. Near a black hole, these distortions become so strong that time behaves in unexpected ways…
However, from the perspective of writing the finale, it is a too convenient “cop out” for me. Oh wait, we really want to change the events we have created these past 4 years, so we’ll just drop a black hole into the very last episode and make whatever arbitrary alterations to the timeline we want. Now any outcome is possible regardless of what has happened before – we can just blame it all on the black hole distorting time.
My Gods!!! I just had a horrible vision of Pamela Ewing waking up from a bad dream and none of this ever really happened! And so ends BSG following the dismal path of “Dallas” and it’s infamous “dream season”. That’s not how I want BSG to be remembered.
I’ll admit there may be a way to do it without upsetting the fans, but why go there? There are so many other ways to tie up the loose ends without resorting to the convenience of time travel.
We’ll see…it won’t be long now…
March 20th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
The End of the Battlestar is Nigh!
March 20th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
Has anyone seen the trailer for Caprica DVD? it almost looks like a modern day Raider crashing in the begining anyone else see that?
March 20th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
@Centurion005: Ouch! I’m dating myself with this explanation…
In 1979, Disney produced a sci-fi movie titled “The Black Hole” (check it out on Wikipedia).
The main premise was that a lost, deep space exploration ship, the USS Cygnus, was inadvertently discovered in stationary orbit at the event horizon of a Black Hole by another exploratory ship, the USS Palomino. The crew of the Palomino learns that the Cygnus Commander, Dr. Hans Reinhardt, has discovered a way to protect his ship from the gravitational effects of the Black Hole. He has created an army of humanoid drones and robotic machines to run the ship including a giant, red monstrosity named Maximilian.
During the climax of the film, one crew member panics and tries to escape with the Palomino just a meteor shower is being pulled into the Black Hole. Reinhart shoots down the Palomino and it crashes into the Cygnus – crippling it’s defenses. The meteors then tear through the ship and send everyone spiraling into the depths of the Black Hole just as the surviving crew of the Palomino escape in a space probe.
As the travelers reach the bottom of the Black Hole, we see Dr. Reinhardt and Maximilian merged together and standing on a high rock overlooking a barren, burning landscape populated by beings that resemble the humaniod drones of the Cygnus. The surviving crew of the Palomino pass through a cathedral-like crystal tunnel, eventually emerging from a White Hole. The end.
My reference was to this fused Reinhardt-Maximilian “Cybrid” who was left behind at the bottom of the Black Hole.
Hope this make a little more sense now…
March 20th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
I did not get to watch the last frakkin special on Monday night. I just finished watching it from scifi.com. As I wipe a tear from my eye and feel like I just lost a good friend, I cannot help but think about how empty Friday nights will feel without this wonderful program on. The story goes beyond anything I could have hoped for. I will miss seeing all the wonderful actors, the great sets and the kick ass frakkin special effects! Simply put, the best thing to ever happen to me from television is ending tonight and I am not sure how to take it. You have to understand something about me to have all this have deeper meaning. I DO NOT WATCH TELEVISION. I despise it for the most part. For a show to come along and FORCE me at gun point to go out and get cable just for one show is just astounding to me. I have high hopes that Caprica will fill in the void left by the passing of the greatest show to grace the airwaves. If not, there will be a riot. So say we all!
March 20th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
The Last Frakkin Special airs tonight in Canada before Galactica at 8pm on Space. Does this mean that we will see the end before the US does as Galactica starts at 9pm on Space and I read 10pm on Scifi is that true?
March 20th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
I also noticed that Space is running a Fandom Forum BSG Finale. The ads that space are running say “after you see the end, you’d ave questions and we’ll try to answer them” they mention that they have special guesses but dont say who they are….
March 20th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
Dying leader = Galactica?
After all she has lead the colonials, and no Battlestar fan can really argue a machine can’t be a person. Can they?
March 20th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
@Khaldor: Yes, and the argument becomes even more compelling in light of the hybridization of Anders and the Cylon goo into Galactica.
We also get that clip from the finale preview where someone seems to want to network Anders directly into Galactica’s computer core against Anama’s vehement protest. I’m sure he will relent out of necessity and Galactica will become a living machine.
Baltar said that “Galactica has been more than our guardian. She’s literally a vessel into which we’ve poured all of our hopes and dreams. And when she’s gone – when we can no longer derive the security from looking out a window and seeing her massive bulk gliding by – then this life will be over, and a new life will have begun.”
I imagine that statement will have relevance to many BSG fans who will miss the Grand Old Lady gliding across our television screens every week.
Tomorrow begins our new life… and this will likely be my last post until after the eposode airs…
To Galactica…best ship in the fleet!
March 20th, 2009 at 3:53 pm
Ronald Moore has hinted that we shouldnt be expected a nice happy sitcom ending. The tone of the show has grown darker – I expect the last episode to be pitch black.
I expect a mixed ending though (Much like DS9).
Galactica will go out in a blaze of glory while taking out Cavil and the colony, but a bunch of people will die.
The fleet will split up into 12 groups and find new homes with the cylons and humans living together starting a cybrid/hybrid humanity.
Some decision or indecision within the fleet will restart the cycle – resulting in another ragtag fleet reading Pythian prophecies 2000 yarn from now.
This will happen again, and again, and again – they wont be able to stop the cycle.
March 20th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
I think in regards to the Roslin operia house vision that Helo and Athena will die as well as Roslin. Caprica six and Baltar will get back together and raise Hera as there own. They see the final five on the balcony above them because they are giving them there blessing as they are a Cylon and Human. This is what Ellen was talking about when she said that the only way to stop the violence between the two races was for them to be together. Hera will still have parents from both. I think this also relates to head six saying thats Hera is her and Baltars child. That might also be why the doors close on Anthena and Roslin. They will not get to see the next stage. I’m probably wrong but thats all I can think that it can mean.
Heres hoping for an awesome episode tonight!!!
March 20th, 2009 at 5:23 pm
Off topic. I just saw a commercial for the Caprica DVD. Does that mean that they’ve cancelled the series or that they’ve aired the first episode and I missed it?
March 20th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
Doesn’t Baltar have to be with 6 at the end to raise Hera?
March 20th, 2009 at 7:07 pm
Just tossing this out there. I think Starbuck IS Daniel. Cavel messed with Daniel’s DNA. Starbuck has always been mannish and aggressive, and very confused. She was not on the ship when the final five were first called. That’s just me. She could be his daughter instead, she did have all the prophetic crap Hera does now, but do the cybrids have resurrection abilities? And would there have been enough time for her to really have been born? The first Cylon war ended when the Final Five came to the colonies. That was 30 years ago. They then had to create the skin jobs, and have time for Cavel to rebel, mess with the final five, then mess with Daniel and get him on Caprica and have a daughter who is in her mid to late 20s. I don’t think the time line works. There is PLENTY of time for Cavel to have made Daniel into Starbuck. IMHO.
January 4th, 2010 at 11:25 am
Life is too short for bad beer.
February 21st, 2010 at 3:26 pm
What I want to know is what the “professional investment managers” are telling their retired customers to do about their retirement income? What is being said to retirees that hold these bonds? What will the federal gov do if these start to fail? Bail them out through inflation?
February 22nd, 2010 at 5:32 pm
cette info poura m’aider !