BSGcast LIVE 4.22 – “Daybreak Part 2″
This is it… let the sobs of joy and sadness begin. Our beloved show has come to an end in a two-hour TV event that none of us are soon to forget. And how did it end? With a bang or with a whimper? Let’s start discussing it!
We had a great time at the Sports Centre Cafe downtown Toronto, and shot an immediate LIVE BSGcast, post-episode, to get some fresh reactions from Melissa TheTelevixen, Rambling Russel Hale, Tamika, Tim and Steve ‘Snowball’ Saylor!
Make sure your Alienware-eligible comments are on this episode, because our FINAL regular season BSGcast will be shot on WEDNESDAY of this week, where we’ll be giving our final thoughts on the series finale, and announcing the winner of the Alienware Gaming Machine!!
March 20th, 2009 at 5:39 pm
I think in regards to the Roslin operia house vision that Helo and Athena will die as well as Roslin. Caprica six and Baltar will get back together and raise Hera as there own. They see the final five on the balcony above them because they are giving them there blessing as they are a Cylon and Human. This is what Ellen was talking about when she said that the only way to stop the violence between the two races was for them to be together. Hera will still have parents from both. I think this also relates to head six saying thats Hera is her and Baltars child. That might also be why the doors close on Anthena and Roslin. They will not get to see the next stage. I’m probably wrong but thats all I can think that it can mean.
Heres hoping for an awesome episode tonight!!!
March 20th, 2009 at 6:42 pm
I like that idea of Athena and Roslin definitely not making it to the next stage so to speak. I am sure Roslin will die w/Adama on Galactica. But I had thought Helo would die for Athena and Hera, and also because he can’t take the guilt of what he did, or what he sees in Athena when she looks at him. Plus, he couldn’t tell the difference!! But the idea of Athena dying for Hera, makes even more sense, and she would not do it, as Helo would do it out of love for her and the baby. She would do it only for the baby–but who knows, we’ll see!
A
March 20th, 2009 at 6:59 pm
Honestly…I’ll be shocked if most of these characters DON’T die. I also have an idea of the final scene(s) in my mind:
After the survivors find a new home (thanks to Hera), we flash-forward a few years. Caprica (maybe with Baltar & Hera) is walking along a crowded side-walk and then…a FLASH. Caprica has one last ‘Oh Frak’ look on her face as their new home is nuked. ‘All of this has happened before and all of it will happen again.’ Someone resurrects. Show over.
…Or everyone lives happily ever after on the chocolate fudge planet Hera led them to…and she finally gets that cupcake:)
March 20th, 2009 at 7:25 pm
That bra-strap thing is a cool idea.
March 20th, 2009 at 7:45 pm
I just hope that when the roll the end credits they dont use the typical “HUNN! DUN, DUNA DUN…” thing, and end with something sweeter like the “wander my friends” or “good lighter” pieces.
Oh, and I finally figured it out:
“ALL OF THIS HAS HAPPENED BEFORE”: there was BSG series before this one
“ALL OF THIS WILL HAPPEN AGAIN”: there will be another BSG series in 30 years
done and done, bow down before me.
j/k.. its been a wild ride. take care everyone!
March 20th, 2009 at 7:51 pm
9 minutes ’til the End!! Oooh, the excitement!
March 20th, 2009 at 8:04 pm
i think i know how galactica will go down. they are going to jump inside the the base colony and create a cascading jump tearing her her up inside, collapsing that black hole and causing a temperal rift thus resetting time and starting all over again.
we’ll see
March 20th, 2009 at 8:10 pm
this show is about redemption in the eyes of failure not about physics and dramatic shootouts thats what we all should be looking out for
March 20th, 2009 at 8:12 pm
wow tigh in a strip club with ellen thats kinda cool! tigh’s laugh is great!
March 20th, 2009 at 9:15 pm
I might be mistaken, but did Starbuck entrered the Fibonacci sequence as the coordinates for the jump?
March 20th, 2009 at 9:19 pm
EARTH!!!
March 20th, 2009 at 9:22 pm
@Bacchs Magnus – I think she did.
March 20th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
starbuck disapears???? poof your gone!! explain that!
March 20th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
redemption thats what its about!
March 20th, 2009 at 10:05 pm
I’m glad Anders had a last, real line. A lot of tragic heros have said, “See you on the other side.” Still, it was good.
Seeing the Admiral take one last flight around the Grey Lady was very powerful. Galactica really was the dying leader.
I am disappointed in Lee & Kara starting to get it on while Zack was still there. But, alcohol will do that.
I guess that Kara was an angel.
Flying over Africa in the Raptor was like the scene from “Out of Africa.” I’m glad Laura got to see the wildlife. A peaceful end – there is something to be said for that.
I guess that the head Six and head Baltar were also angels.
Good endings.
March 20th, 2009 at 10:07 pm
Miachondrial DNA!!!!!!
I called it!!!!!!!!!
March 20th, 2009 at 10:08 pm
I love it that Ron had a cameo!!!
March 20th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
DAMN THERE WERE A LOT OF FRAKKIN COMMERCIALS!
Awesome FRAKKIN episode.
All this has happened before and will happen again.
A
March 20th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
I said last season in on this blog that michondrial dna wasthat key…Miochondrial dna comes from the mother….HERA
March 20th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
WTFrak? the ending made the Return of the King ending short in comparission.
Well here’s a commercial to THE PLAN!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxxIFOEKyws
March 20th, 2009 at 10:13 pm
wow im currently digesting everything!
Cheers to the best show ever!
So Say We All!
March 20th, 2009 at 10:18 pm
I am very happy with how the 4 year Battlestar Galactica meta-story arc concluded. Very Well Done Roger Moore, David Eick and Friends!
March 20th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
I think everyone on the show was a Cylon since Starbuck was revealed to be an inhead character. Six and Baltar are gods every since the beginning and I mean THE beginning. RDM involving the robotics creation on the current Earth as a way to fold them into the mythology of the show was great. I think there’s going to be alot of paranoid now that life is immitating art. The ending ran a bit too long but it laid out the ending for each character nicely but too “Lord of the Ring Return of the King” to me.
March 20th, 2009 at 10:20 pm
Well, I had some personal theories confirmed here. The Cylon Earth was indeed Earth, but the planet they made home was Earth. In other words, “Earth” is an idea, not just a literal place. It was a literal place, but that was the old Earth. This is the new home, the Promised Land. This is Earth.
I said that we wouldn’t see the Beings of Light here. Well, I mean, we won’t see them like we saw them in the Original Series. But we have the Head characters. Those are working like Beings of Light. I believe this was confirmed. Kara, Baltar, Six, they were called “angels,” which appear of course as beings of light. So there you go.
I’m still surprised Roslin lasted this long. I seriously thought she was gone in episode 12. But she had a great send-off.
Admiral Hoshi and President Lampkin. Wasn’t expecting that one. Seriously, how many times did this episode bend me over the bed and frak me over? At first, I couldn’t swallow Hoshi as Admiral, but thinking about it, it makes sense. He was an agent in the Mutiny, but only an agent. He was driven by principles the whole time.
Well, that final sequence. What can I say? Seeing advances in modern robotics has really made me wonder myself. How much farther away are we? Will we ever develop a machine so advanced, so sophisticated, that it not only computes, it thinks? It feels. It lives. In the end, that’s what sci-fi tries to tell us. Who are we really? And where, ultimately, are we going?
March 20th, 2009 at 10:21 pm
Release. Sweet release.
I’ll say it here: I was wrong. I was wrong about almost everything. Frak me. I was completely thrown off by the whole Earth c 130,000 BC thing. The list could stretch for days.
Am I ecstatic with how things turned out? No. Happy? Yes. Satisfied? Most definitely. I guess it kinda works out, them being the harbingers of our civilization, them being our god/gods etc.
But a happy ending? Really? I don’t know. I wasn’t feeling it. The shot of our civilization with RDM reading National Geographic was cool, and the Watchtower was really cool. But the robot montage was kinda cheesy. OK. Really cheesy. C’mon, when I want to look back, I want to remember frakkin’ humans, frakkin’ Cylons, frakkin’ Hera, and the frakkin’ Admiral. I could do without trumpet-playing robots. Seriously.
It just seemed too easy. Cavil blowing his brains out? Cavil simply making a deal that easily seems far fetched.
I kinda liked Kara being a head-being. An angel? I’m too proud to say…..
The first half was awesome, the second half great, but too happy. How did Hoshi find Earth too? I must have missed something. Someone enlighten me.
Oh, and Tyrol cruching Tory’s windpipe was pretty frakkin’ awesome. Ironic, that her former lover would just kill her.
Oh well. Happy hunting. I’ll see you all on the other side.
(About 150,050-150,100 years ago. Before the Fall.)
So say we all!!!!!!!!!
March 20th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
so wth was kara? has she been an angel since she returned? but she was soo interacting with the physical world so much. were the head baltar and 6, god and the devil? who was who?
AMAZING ending
March 20th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
Oh, that and we seem to be repeating the cycle. I’ll be out back working on my fallout shelter.
March 20th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
BSG is officially my all time favorite tv show and there will hopefully never be anything that can make me think otherwise. Lost paled in comparission. I’m 28 years old and I can now tell my kids that this version of BSG is far superior than the first or if there’s a reboot in the future because someone is gonna come along and think they can do better like what JJ Abram is doing with the new Trek movie. Speaking of that there’s nothing wrong with the TNG timeline trek just bad writing and the people who wrote them ever since DS9 went off the air. Voyager and Enterprise was a sick joke.
March 20th, 2009 at 10:27 pm
What can I say but…..AWESOME!
That ending was eerie in a way, especially how they added the AI stuff and the remains of Hera found in Africa and the original version of All Along the Watchtower.
The thing with Starbuck though, was she “God”? She just disappeared and that sort of sucked ass, but the teary goodbye to Sam was amazing.
Cavil took the coward’s way out and shot himself, and it couldn’t have happened to a better fraking Cylon!
I wonder if the Centurions made it? Where did they go? What their civilization is like? Did they evolve? Did they die out? Makes you wonder and could be the harbinger of a new series.
Okay, did anyone NOT laugh when Caprica 6 and Baltar saw their head selves and said “We will?” at the same time? I’m happy that both of them made it and survived. And when Baltar finally learned to appreciate the fact he was a farmer at the end…maybe even thought about his dad? Not a dry eye here let me tell you.
Laura’s passing was well done and peaceful. I’m glad she got to see the new Earth before she went.
Well we finally learned that the Opera House was Galactica all along! WOW never saw that coming! Plus all that time they were there to stop Cavil from killing Hera. Amazing!
I’m also glad that things worked out for Carl and Athena and that they seemed to of patched things back up at the end.
RIP Boomer…even though you made mistakes, you came through in the end. I hope that you found peace in whatever afterlife Cylons go to.
I’m glad Chief Tyrol finished off Tory…that bitch deserved it for what she did to Cally!
RIP Galactica…The finest ship in the fleet!
Tyrol and Ellen are finally together and able to have a peaceful life! All of them found peace and the idea of Earth at the end and that’s what matters.
Now the question at the end, and it applies a good lesson to the human race….are we worthy? Or will we let out brains get ahead of our hearts and allow what happened before to happen again?
The choice is ours!
March 20th, 2009 at 10:28 pm
Wow. Well that was pretty cool. Right there with you on the whole robot montage thing. The one robot was fine, after that it was pure cheese substitute directly from the can.
As to how the fleet found them, they sent a rapture to the rendezvous and told them the new coordinates.
Wish we knew more about what the hell Kara was. A head Kara for everyone? Was she taken into heaven like Elijah? What the Frak?
Still, it did tie it up pretty well. Good stuff there. No more Cavels to worry about at least.
March 20th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
@John Q. Frak
It’s easy to miss but, iirc, Hoshi has a brief line, along the lines of “boy, was I glad to see that raptor”. So, Galactica must have had at least one surviving raptor to send to jump to the planned rendezvous point, in order to bring the fleet “home”.
-phil
March 20th, 2009 at 10:30 pm
As I’ve long since believed, the Beings of Light were involved. I think that Starbuck, Head Six and Head Baltar were all RDM’s version of the BOL or some sort of offshoot of them. Starbuck’s mission was complete, so they called her back.
March 20th, 2009 at 10:33 pm
Holy FRAK!!!! I think I need to watch that again.
Amazing.
Kara Head Six and Head Baltar, all Angels of God.
Cool
March 20th, 2009 at 10:33 pm
I’ll comment tomorrow. I just want to say this…I was pleased and ……..best finale of any show ever…….I’ll
-Mario
March 20th, 2009 at 10:34 pm
I am very happy that the story stayed true to the basic arc of the original series (TOS) but did fix the many problems of TOS execution. My earlier blog at http://williamweb7.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!12B00422028A0296!179.entry explains what I thought was necessary and consistent with the ancient astronaut mythology of Battlestar Galactica’s “Life here began out there” introduction. They set the discovery and naming of Earth 150,000 years before the current era (B.C.E.) or 148,000 B.C. and destroyed the evidence of the FTL ships that got us here.
2 questions that do remain.
1. How does Caprica Six and Baltar manage to live 150,000 years? Is this because they were touched by God (or the Lords of Kobol?)
2. The mystery of who Starbuck is is only indirectly suggested. Starbuck’s arrival after “Maelstrom” does seem to be that of a Lord of Kobol that is far more solid longer than the Shelly Godfrey of “Six Degrees of Separation”. Leoben’s statement that she is an “angel of God” it seems can be taken literally. Her instant disappearance, like that of Shelly Godfrey, does also confirm Lord of Kobol status but more exposition here would be greatly appreciated.
March 20th, 2009 at 10:35 pm
So they land on earth.. and in what spot? Why, the Windows XP desktop =)
Great series, great finale, great job to everyone who made it =)
March 20th, 2009 at 10:36 pm
Folks…after you pay your thoughts and tributes here come on over to the link in my name and pop into the launch tube for a live chat discussion on the series and tonight’s ep.
March 20th, 2009 at 10:38 pm
@ wiseowl777
Baltar and Six were Angels, and if you remember what Gaius said, about halfway through, that “God is not good or evil, he is a force of nature” I think that had a double meaning. Six and Gaius (angel versions) simply had a job to do. They guided humanity to a new home, and I imagine they did that last time, and that they will next time.
March 20th, 2009 at 10:41 pm
@ Lords_of_Kobol
That was head six and head baltar…not the actual ones.
March 20th, 2009 at 10:41 pm
It was all worth it. I was moved. I will never forget this series. Truly, Truly moved.
March 20th, 2009 at 10:41 pm
I absolutely loved every single fascite of this episode, i laughed only when Cavil shot himself, other than that I was trying to hold back tears, although I will probably end up crying myself to sleep tonight.
Oh and By the way, I said around two months ago on the imdb forums about the show ending with the original version of All Along the Watchtower.
Their will never be a show to surpass this ones greatness, many will try, and many will fail. And on a side note I would kinda like to have our planet go the same route as Caprica instead of all these bullshit wars.
March 20th, 2009 at 10:44 pm
I am… sated.
Probably my favorite thing is that they didn’t try to answer EVERYTHING… and that there was a mystical nature to it all. At the end, it tied in perfectly to the greater message of the show. A nearly flawless ending.
Some things truly surprised me. Starbuck being an angel and leaving, even though I saw it coming there at the end, was surprising anyway. Tyrol finding out about his wife and then him killing his former fiance… did not see that one coming. Sam dying I saw coming, but not the way it happened. Oh, there is so much… and I am nearly too spent to type it all.
The only thing I did not dig was the agreement between the two factions, since it felt forced, but I see why it was written. I also thought they could have come up with a better reason for them abandoning technology on Earth, but these are minor points in an otherwise amazing finale.
I was thrilled… I was shocked… I laughed… I cried… and in the end, I felt this was the best conclusion to any television show I have ever watched… and I have watched many.
March 20th, 2009 at 10:46 pm
Oh, and CJ? YOU WERE WRONG, MOTHA FRAKKA’! But really, you’re probobaly GLAD that you were wrong.
March 20th, 2009 at 10:46 pm
@Chessykat, what you said kinda made sense. Whatever Six and Baltar are I’m glad there’s a happy ending for the show but not for the series because damn it RDM just frakked with out minds again with that ending with those robotics stuff.
March 20th, 2009 at 10:47 pm
LISTEN UP EVERYONE!!!
Starbuck is not a hea being!!!
After the screening for the episode Ron Moore was asked what starbuck was. he said that she was efinitly not a head being. that she was something completly different nd no on will ever know what she was. RON MOORE SAID THIS
regardless i cried my eyes out for the last hour non stop.
complete closure. thats all we could have asked for
March 20th, 2009 at 10:47 pm
Lords_of_Kobol: Those were not Caprica Six and Baltar. They were the angels appearing to them, who don’t necessarily “live” per say, but rather observe for the higher being(s) that be (who doesn’t like to be called God.)
I too will comment tomorrow, but I have to say that I’m very please and satisfied with the ending.
March 20th, 2009 at 10:49 pm
I love the conclusion to the Lee-Kara story. All the guilt and tension was explained, very well done.
March 20th, 2009 at 10:49 pm
I am waiting……………………. here in Pacific time. Guess I stepped over the red line. Just had to know, and am looking forward to Matt & Nat from Toronto tonight.
C.Jimison
March 20th, 2009 at 10:50 pm
I need to rant…
I don’t get how Starbuck could turn into a head character…she was shooting cylons earlier in the episode unless the Good Lord was calling her back right then.
In addition, if Hera is the link then does that mean that no humans survived? They dispersed all over the world and if she’s related to everyone then what happened to everyone else? Also, I find it hard to believe that no evidence of their arrival on the planet wouldn’t have been found. Although I’m not a paleontologist, I think man was using stone tools around 50,000 years ago (thanks wikipedia), not 150,000 years ago, so RDM wants us to believe the colonists were hoofing it with the primitives and using their stuff? Even though they didn’t have their technology, I can’t believe someone wouldn’t come up with something like a pulley or anything else.
Next, all the colonists speak the same language and use writing. Since writing is a recent development (10,000) RDM wants us to believe that the colonists just put down the pen forever?
And also,
Everyone just agrees to give up their technology?
Adama just chills out on that hill with his raptor? And no budding archaeological student comes along 150,000 years later and makes an awesome discovery?
Finally, how did Cavil get into the CIC? And he just shot himself? We’re going to need some deleted scenes for some ’splaining…
That’s the end of my complaining. That aside, I’m generally happy with the episode. I thought the scene where Baltar says he knows how to farm and cries was very touching. Although, I’m not sure Baltar and Caprica Six got what they deserved, given what they’ve done (let’s remember she killed a baby with her bare hands). I’m glad Helo survived, he’s a lucky guy given the body count of the show. And of course, the battle in the beginning, frakkin awesome!
Those robots marching on the tv were actually kind of scary
March 20th, 2009 at 10:52 pm
All these comments have been made before and will be made again. Proof that great minds think alike!
-Windows XP Desktop for the ending!
-Lord of the Rings 25 endings seemed short in comparison!
-Baltar and Caprica Angels of God who doesn’t like being called that!
-Abandoning Technology?!?!
-Terribly upset that this is really it (for this current cast and characters).
-Nothing to do but prequels and the next go round, predicting our future.
-Ron’s goodbye speech in the Last Frakking Special seemed so corny and canned. No one responded to it at all. Is he even liked?
March 20th, 2009 at 10:52 pm
Wow ! Best show ever! Period ! Cheers RDM ! if my watching added to your pay check at the end of the day…. you deserve it. 100% I cannot explain how it made me feel. I actually cried when Adama flew away from Lee and Kara with Roz. I have literally seen every episode, beginning of mini-series till Finale. And the way it fell together, was totally satisfying. Excuse my perverted-ness for one second but.. It was like frakking for 4 seasons and finally getting a N***. Earth! It doesn’t have to be the first one… But it is for us. We have to appreciate her while we are here, and on the other side (like Ander’s said)… well i guess it what you make of it while we ARE here. How we got here doesn’t really matter anymore, but we can only live with ourselves if we have faith in God, that he will guide us out of whatever trouble we get ourselves into (like manufacturing Slaves or making slaves out of each other). And he will.
I don’t want to preach so I’ll clear my head and post later.. but let me just say. It was sweet. It gave us peeks into the past and future… enough for anyone to know the TRUTH, no matter what other details we decide to fill in with our imaginations (Religion). And thats what it is to be Human… and some Cylon i guess… lol
March 20th, 2009 at 10:56 pm
AWESOME PURE AWESOME! It was a thrilling roller coaster ride to the very end. Guess what. There even making a sequel movie that will open on Earth day in theaters. Sadly no humans. Just animals. Its called Earth.lol.
So they wernt human after all? It turns out that eddy was the “monster” the whole time. I told you they would show aliens. They were the aliens! But its possible that they didnt evolve separately. There could have been an advanced civilization 10,000 years before the colonials arrived who left for kobol.Though the whole aliens who look human could be a star trek nod.Wonder if in the new trek movie kirk will find the cylons? Loved the hendrix version of the song ending. And did you hear the baltar angel tell the six that “it” doesnt like when she calls “it” god?
March 20th, 2009 at 10:57 pm
Im re-watching it! I have to. I just saw the scene with hybrid Anders, Adama, and Kara…and Anders says “find the perfect world..the end of Kara Thrace” Cool!
I glad the killed that Bia Tory! and Cavil blew his brains out! HaHa
Ok someone needs to enlighten me on Mitochondrial DNA. Whats the significance since humans were already present on Earth?
March 20th, 2009 at 10:58 pm
The Ron Moore cameo reminded me of the stane lee cameos in the spider man films.Was expecting spiderman to come swinging in.
March 20th, 2009 at 10:59 pm
Also those probably wernt humans. They looked more like neanderthals.
March 20th, 2009 at 11:02 pm
I ment to say enter, not entered
What I really say though is that this last and final episode (snif, snif!) gave us the asnwers to these questions (and here lies the genius of RDM):
We got the answers to:
1 – Polytheism;
2 – Monotheism;
3 – Mythology;
4 – The Indo-European family of languages;
5 – The fact the civilizations separated by thousands of miles (Egyptians, Mayas, Chinese, Sumerians, Celts) developed advanced (for the time) astronomical and engineering knowledge and capabilities;
6 – Bob Dylan (I don’t know about you, but when he sings, all I hear is MuM MuM MuM MuM);
7 – UFO’s (the Centurions are spying on us, and abducting some of us to experiment on);
8 – Our notion of good and evil
9 – Hip-Hop (sorry all you Hip-Hop lovers, but you have to be a Chrome Job to like the rhythm)
10 – Stalin;
11 – Hitler;
12 – Britney Spears (Come on! She has to be a Cylon.);
13 – American Idol;
One thing is for sure: my Friday nights will never be the same. RDM’s Battlestar Galactica was the best thing on TV. The best thing that ever was and ever will be. I really thought I would shed a tear when it ended, but I didn’t. RDM found a way to make the ending so hopeful, that didn’t even have to go there. Kara’s disappearance, although anticipated, was great. Seeing Helo and Athena walking hand in hand with Hera was a relief. Seeing Baltar and Caprica Six leaving into the sunset was amazing!
I will miss them all, and I will miss all of your comments.
So say we all!
March 20th, 2009 at 11:02 pm
so i guess somebody guessed the nding right well almost it was six walking with baltar in timnes square or two angels whatever you make of it
March 20th, 2009 at 11:06 pm
Does this mean Bob Dylan didn’t write All Along the Watchtower?
haha
I didn’t see these things coming:
So I guess you bloggers were right. The Earth they found at the mid-season finale was not our Earth after all. That was why they did not show the continents when they landed.
Tyrol finally finding out that Tory killed Cally. Very nice, she needed to die.
Most everyone lives!
NYC 150,000 years later!
Baltar doing something heroic!
March 20th, 2009 at 11:07 pm
They didnt show the real 8 that japan just made. If they did I missed it.Oh well hope they build a frakible model soon. I hope they make present day earth bsg spinoff. That would be better than the caprica one.
March 20th, 2009 at 11:08 pm
First of all, frak. My parents gave me very strange looks as I cheered and clapped in the basement.
I was beyond happy to see that Gaius, at the last minuet, did change his mind. He was able to fulfil his destiny, and despite the worry of Athena, Caprica 6 and Gaius were there to protect Hera. Though I really think Hera ended up not being as important to the survival as I had originally thought. She seemed more of an instrument to bring everyone together in that room, but it was Gaius (with his skills of speech) that actually brought everything full circle.
Glad to see Tory got what was coming to her, I knew the moment the remark was made that for a moment all 5 Cylons touched the water to share the resurrection technology, her murder of Cally would come to haunt her. It was also needed to break the cycle and have resurrection technology removed completely.
The moment Kara jumped and I saw Africa, I knew we were their decedents. It makes for a wonderful ending, to see how those events connected back to us, and that so far, the cycle has been broken. But it also serves as a warning to us to treat our robots that are becoming more advance or there could be blood shed.
Kara, she still confuses me. I don’t know what she is, another angel (she isn’t the harbinger of death, unless they meant life as those in the fleet knew it), like Mind Six and Mind Gaius, or just happened to be in everyone’s head.
My mind is still just exploding.
The final hour was just perfect, there was no way that there could be a happy ending, it would ruin the whole previous seasons. Everyone for the most part found their peace. Roslin died happy, and just thinking of Adama’s realization brings tears back to my eyes. It was just perfect.
Best part, Moore at the news stand!
Great job!
March 20th, 2009 at 11:09 pm
@Johnb229
Maybe our naturally violent behaviour twards outsiders made us kill them? Maybe Baltar had no paper or stabbing pens so he told oral history. I’m learning about that right now in school actually. It’s quite possible that Baltar spread this Saga of a star world until the names, the story, and the themes became jumbled into OUR modern mythology.
March 20th, 2009 at 11:09 pm
Did anyone notice RDM reading about Hera?
March 20th, 2009 at 11:12 pm
Should have mentioned this before. There was a movie recently about a guy in NY who could see dead people.They guy sounded like baltar and it was a comedy. The angel ending reminded me of that movie.The name of it is Ghost Town. It never got alot of attention but it was rather quite good and pretty funny too.
March 20th, 2009 at 11:13 pm
I loved it! A particular highlight was seeing Caprica and Baltar see their angels, separately and both answering “I will?” at the same time. Again, I love how Head 6 was an angel this entire time, and that she was cruel, manipulative and harsh w/Baltar, not all sweet and innocent. Although we did not see Caprica’s angel often, at least we saw how in the end, Hera really was the shape of things to come. I loved how they made her our ancestor–amazing. Ron and team took us full circle connecting major events in the past, to who our characters became today. In the case of Lee and even Kara, they did not seem like savious of humanity–especially Lee. Lee a bad boy? a drunk who almost hooked up w/his brother’s woman? Kara’s self destructive nature, just budding for only Lee to see. But Zak’s death changed everything, as the death of Roslin’s family made her into the mother of humanity. i was glad she got to see their new home before she died. Tigh and Adama–they were a lot more carefree before they became the leaders of Galactica. I am not sure what their turning points were, but we know they did not retire, and Zak’s death also changed many things as well. i think Adama being alone showed how he had not yet found his soulmate, Laura. The opera house being the Galactica and the CIC–perfect.
Okay now to the good stuff: THANK GOD Tyrol finally got Tory for killing Cally–YESSS! That, was our Chief! I knew he loved Cally, he just didn’t know it. Plus, even better in one of his best moments, EVER!! the 5 never gave the cylons resurrection. He really was the hero in the end. Cavil got out quickly ! I’ve never seen a gun go in someone’s mouth so fast. Finally, seeing Adama, Tigh, Baltar, Hoshi, Cottle lying on the grass like a bunch of kids looking at hunters of the Stone Age–they were like little boys playing in the grass. A beautiful metaphor for a new beginning,
The flashbacks for each character really were perfectly done, and would not have worked at any other time. The only one that I didn’t get was Roslin, hooking up w/her old student, and then taking a job on Adar’s campaign. Perhaps she could not connect w/anyone yet, only w/a cause and then into a great leader. All started by her becoming an orphan.
The way Adama was throwing up outside the strip club, and how obnoxious he and Tigh were together before the “fall”. The way they were practically laughing and making fun of Boomer when she was learning how to fly, they were so cocky! Unbelievable that, that was why she gave Hera back to them in the end.
In the end, it seemed that everyone found peace, but a lonely, separate peace. Tyrol couldn’t take either race anymore, and wanted to live in peace, alone, and Adama too died alone, but I guess w/Roslin by his side.
Lee and Kara: were never to end in happily ever after, just as that night, when Zak’s voice stopped them from hooking up. The death of Zak, and that guilt, kept them both imprisoned, even though they did love eachother, it was always intertwined w/that mess. The pigeon, was Kara–amazing. Lee was freed the first time Kara died, and then again, when his father left, and she left our world. I have never heard him sound so light hearted, and then Kara was gone. I guess that was her gift to him in the end and it was good to see that he was finally free, and that was how he was going to live his life.
I felt good about how Ron gave those who suffered so much peace in the end. Those who suffered more than others: Kara’s struggle to stop hating herself and hurting those she loved, was such a great similarity to the suffering of other prominent figures in religion today, I’m sure we all know some of those figures? Sadly, as I said earlier, it was her death, return, and final farewell that was her greatest gift of all; freeing Lee and giving the coordinates of that planet were her greatest moments. I guess she really did love him to her soul in the end. Baltar and Caprica–the best duet of all time, there should be an award for that–there really should. In the end, it was how he started and what he most despised about himself was what made him the author of the new chapter of humanity–farming. He and Caprica–together forever. But Baltar always hated himself, from day 1– that’s what we learned from his flashbacks. We always knew that he was enabled by his cowardice, always, and OMG, I thought he was going to get laid during the battle, it wouldn’t have surprised me–he had more action than anyone. The flashbacks also showed us how he met and connected w/his soulmate–Caprica. Both brilliant and self-loathing, only to be freed in the end. How great was it to have them see their angels, together? Brilliant.
I am also glad that Helo, Athena and Hera were together, in peace, starting over. They also suffered, fought prejudice, and hate to be together, and to see them together, was very satisfying.
I loved how the show ended w/everyone spreading out on the planet in order to keep the species going, and wanted to start over w/out technology. Lee was right, that was how it should be, right? Ron and co., really took our characters full circle in the end, well done, I hope Caprica is just as amazing.
A
March 20th, 2009 at 11:13 pm
Disappointed. I’m really sad. I think I might need the “cliff’s notes “to this episode because I’m feeling rather cheated and it must be just because I’m missing something.
I’m upset about the whole Kara thing. There are subtle hints that there must be an after-life and angels: “I’m finished” (she disappears) or “See you on the other side” (as Anders goes off into the sun)…. but it doesn’t explain the viper or the fact that she is tangible being to all those people on Galatica. Also, Apollo says she will not be forgotten but there is no mention of her later in the “future”. Making her an angel is a cop out and easy way to “write off” the unexplainable.
Also, Chief killing Torri. Even though I found this satisfying because I hated the character, I feel this lacked honest motivation. After Callie died Chief spoke about how he disliked Callie “The cabbage smell of her” is how he put it. Then, he discovers that Callie lied to him about Nikki. The Chief’s true love was Boomer. We spent an entire episode rehashing and redeveloping that bond and then we have him murder over Callie? I’m not buying it. I think it was a plot device and rather ridiculous.
Kudos goes to Roslin. Great lines. Great wrap up. Very touching. Very well executed.
Also enjoyed the reunited Baltar and Caprica Six stuff. Very cool.
All in all, I think the writers were trying too hard to wrap it up. I wanted steak and mostly just got cotton candy. Lots of convenient fluff with very little real substance. I can only suspend my disbelief so far.
Nat and Matt, love you guys. Can’t wait to see the cast. I’ve got a lot of catching up to do haven’t been on lately.
March 20th, 2009 at 11:14 pm
Cheesy cat.Yep. Already posted this.
The Ron Moore cameo reminded me of the stane lee cameos in the spider man films.Was expecting spiderman to come swinging in.
March 20th, 2009 at 11:16 pm
one final thing for tonight. Adama=Adam? Coincidence?
March 20th, 2009 at 11:19 pm
The twelve Colonies… They are us, we are them… race, tribe, religion… whatever you want to call it, they are us, Humanity, All of us, and we all bring something to the table. And without each of us we wouldn’t progress anymore, sure it may lead to the death of a part of us, but also to our birth/resurrection then we can take another wack it… perfection (where Anders went). I just wonder if Capicican society represented Europeans, looking at it from the racial perspective. but whatever thats my own demons, and its irrelavant (and no, I’m not White, or European).
March 20th, 2009 at 11:25 pm
So who was god and who were the angels? Was Kara an angel? If so, why was she different than the head angels?
March 20th, 2009 at 11:27 pm
1. I am so glad Chief off’d Tory by choking the life out of her and then breaking her neck. That was retribution we needed.
2. Hera as the new Eve was a nice twist.
3. I am glad Helo survived. He deserved to.
4. Kara as some sort of sub-angel and a tool of God was a nice twist.
5. Very touching how Roslin went.
6. Cavil was human after all. Suicide is the most human of actions.
7. Really cool to see the mini robots being built 150,000 years later. It has all happened before and it was beginning to happen again.
8. Best graphics I have ever seen during the battle.
9. Nice integration of the original Hendrix at the end and nice tribute to the original BSG music during the death of Galactica. Bear outdid himself this year. Starbuck’s piano arrangement with her head character was still the best musical arrangement of theshow I think.
10. Baltar’s acting the last three hours was superior. Between Tigh’s eye and Baltar we saw some of the best acting ever on any show I have seen.
11. “The Plan” looks really really interesting — seeing BSG from the cylon side will be frakkintastic.
12. I was really really happy Tori got the ever-living sh*t choked out of her then had her neck snapped.
March 20th, 2009 at 11:28 pm
Hera is Mitochondrial Eve… i get it! The reason her survival was so important was that she was the ancestor to all future “cybrids”, meaning humanity 150,000 years in the future. Her DNA is the only one to match our’s…not the cylons, or humans because she was a mix of both…
and i think the primitive humans were neanderthals..which if you’ve taken archaeology do not match our DNA…but they did coexist with our ancestors for a brief period and eventually died out (or interbred).
Amazing ending to the show. I’m glad they finally all got what they had wanted all along. A chance to start over.
You could say Kara was an angel, or a BOL, or and agent of God..but her purpose was always to lead humanity to its end…or maybe an end to the cycle so to speak. And “Head” Baltar and Six were also serving the same higher power.
One thing though…I wasn’t a fan of the robot montage at the end…kinda cheesy.
March 20th, 2009 at 11:30 pm
We are there watching our makers hiding in plane site up in the clouds. Once in a while you me see us when we fall down and join the crowds.We fly in craft that are round like the sun waiting for the time that we can reveal our selves.So let us not talk falsey now. Gods work is still not done. When the time is right. We shall reveal ourselves and together we journey into the night. But as equals, both the creators and the created. With all prejudice deleted.
A little poem about the cylon ufo connection.Good night.
Ps. I know the poem doesnt rhym that well but mabey someone can fix it and make it better sounding.
March 20th, 2009 at 11:31 pm
Starbuck is not a “Head” character. She is an angel that was reborn after she died in the maelstrom.
Either God, the head God (Zeus), or the One True God put her into play like a chess piece to make events turn they way he wanted them to. He/They also brought forth Head Six and Head Baltar for the exact same reason.
Like the movie “Contact”, BSG is — in the end — a balance of man needing both science and religion… and one SHOULD NOT exist without the other (I’m an atheist, by the way). When you isolate and believe in only one side, you weaken your abilities and growth. It’s like ONLY ever listening to one form of music or only eating one type of food.
“God” put Starbuck into play and withheld her knowledge-of-self because she could not influence the outcome by knowing the outcome. The Greek Gods loved to play games with man. This may have been another form of a game. However, I think “God” wanted to start anew with man again (much like Noah and the Ark).
We were all looking for a neatly wrapped scifi explanation for BSG. RDM & Company gave us more than that… and I’m glad. Not everything in a good story should be laid out for us to know every detail. The best stories are the ones we personalize and find meaning and continuance ourselves. I — for one — am sick and tired of tv shows (and some movies) that feel they have to wrap everything up by story end. Even though BSG ended pretty firmly, it left us all questioning “Why?” towards the whole story’s meaning (and Kara, Head Six, etc.)
I am so programmed to have shows spell everything out for me in neat packages that I expected a shot in this last BSG episode at the end to show a ship-of-light hovering above Earth.
Instead, RDM smacked me and said “Think beyond sci-fi.”
March 20th, 2009 at 11:35 pm
Ok one thing I did not like StarBuck going poof….. I yelled what the F4ck!!! Really that is how they ended her???
Earth 2.0, looks like we have a ‘little’ time until it all happens again.
& Earth 1.0 is near by, in the shot right before the BSG75 jumps you see Orion belt & thous stars are close to use, I think there just about 15ly from here, I will have to double check but there close. Maybe Earth1.0 is Vulcan.
I liked the Hera thing, but 1 thing, I have seen full sized copy of those bones in a college class & there of someone about alittle over 4 feet tall, I am guessing they hope know one knows that part
That battle was kick ass & fraking great.
I would like too have seen like a 10-20 years later thing, just a short little bit like 2-3 mins.
I can’t wait for The Plan or is just ‘Plan’, also hope they release Caprica on Blu-Ray also not just DVD and hope that show does good, the adverts looked good.
March 20th, 2009 at 11:36 pm
Surprisingly… Caprica AND SGU looks pretty good… so I guess I do have something to look forward to.
March 20th, 2009 at 11:43 pm
This episode did not disappoint. There is so much to like but I wished it would have been a little darker especially after the being told by EJO and RDM that it would be. No major good-guy characters “died” except Roslin who you already knew would die. Couple of place I was expecting bad things
- when they were showing Hot dog during the space battle I thought for sure he was a gonner. (and what a great ending for Tyrol to show him again raising Nicki at the end)
- Helo I thought was going to go out in a blaze of glory to save everyone. I was happy to see him at the end though.
- Galactica dies off camera? RDM why did you deny me the visual orgasm that would have been the Galactica exploding. When you saw the ship buckle I though for sure it would at least break in half or have a pod break off. I thought it would have been dark if Galactica would have finally came apart either when Adama was in the launch tubes so he goes down with his ship or just after he leaves. At least crash it into the ocean so we could see it.
-Speaking of lack of explosions-I also wanted to see the colony explode after Galactica jumped out of it. Lot of FX in this episode and I’m sure money was getting tight.
-I was expecting more of a double cross from Cavil. He gave up a little too soon. I didn’t expect suicide. That was a shock.
At the end I was expecting them to show an early version of our earth cylons. This was my ideal version of an ending:
On the TV we see the current robots and then go to a military scientist who is showing off his invention which is an disconnected robot head and torso hooked up to wires. Cue Hendrix’s All along the watch tower. Head Baltar looks at the TV and says “all this has happened before” The scientist turns the robot on, he stands up and you see a glowing red eye of the robot going from side to side. The crowd of people in the room with the robot stand up and cheer. Then head six finishes “And it will all happen again” They look at each other with the tv behind them and smile. Pull away to a city view then a view of the earth then the galaxy. Start credits.
No matter what we do, fate will lead us to the same path.
Thing I’m glad did not happen:
- the black hole didn’t lead them somewhere.
- Daniel wasn’t important.
- There were not mysterious BOL that show up suddenly, you could say that the head characters were angels and they could be the BOL but it was not overt.
March 20th, 2009 at 11:43 pm
The old girl did the damn thing didn’t she… in the fight. She kicked ass and she took a beating and got us home.
To Galactica.
March 20th, 2009 at 11:49 pm
Whatever Starbuck was, she was sent by The One Who Does Not Like To Be Called God.
TOWDNLTBCG… or Towel for short, selected Starbuck as His messenger.
March 20th, 2009 at 11:51 pm
I was satisfied with the ending, it was great, but I feel it did not live up to it’s potential and a lot of the chracters I thought had an important role did not.
Plus, too many unanswered questions.
The Finale basically confirmed the cycle of technology being the doom of man(hybrid)kind. They create machines, which in turn rebel and nuke em. There is only one problem with this. We already knew that part.
Here are some of the questions that are left unanswered:
1. How does Kobol, the Lords of Kobol, the 13th Tribe and the 12 Tribes fit into all of this?
2. Is the Earth shown to us 150,000 years later populated by humans or hybrids?
3. Can the skinjobs actually reproduce?
4. Where did the indigineous humans come from?
These were some of the most important questions we should have had answered.
Starbuck being an Angel, we knew that already. Head Beings being Angels, we knew that. Centurions that are made by mad causing mankind’s destruction, we knew that.
So why not answer the real questions?
I’ll write up a full review tomorrow when this sinks in.
Overall, as I said, good Finale, but I dont think it was as good as it should have been. Too many things were handled “ok”. Also, too sad an ending, too bland. We really could have used some joy in there.
Adalla
March 20th, 2009 at 11:54 pm
Boomer… When you think about it she is as pivotal a character as Starbuck. Looking at it from the Cylon side. She was another instrument. Another angel, only a Demon. I guess RDM is equating GOD to the devil or God to G-d when Baltar said you “know he doesn’t like that name”. But whatever
March 20th, 2009 at 11:56 pm
One more thing – I was surprised how funny this episode was. There were more funny lines in this episode then the whole series combined. The part with Adama and Baltar talking about mating with the natives was hilarious. I saw it in a theater and it made the funny parts stand out more.
And you should have seen the theater go crazy when the final five are about to stick their hand in the cylon goo and are told that they will have the memories of the other four. No one knew what was going to happen but everyone knew it wasn’t going to be good for Tori.
March 20th, 2009 at 11:56 pm
Wow. So many ideas. Where to start?
When Galactica rammed the colony, the only two things I could think were, “WOW! I wonder if Lee came up with that part of the plan?”
And I’m curious as to how they got those Raptors into the starboard flightpod to begin with, but that’s irrelevant.
And, series finale sponsored by Red Stripe! HOORAY BEER!
The Opera house = Galactica
The Opera Hall = the CIC
Earth = Not Earth
RDM <3 National Geographic
Starbuck = Patrick Swazye
Bananas = Delicious
@ Johnb229,
Well, the Raptor probably sat there for about 100,000 years, until Olduvai gorge formed, and the remains of it eroded away. Ditto for every single piece of technology the colonists had on them, including any skeletons with hints of technology (i.e, prosthetics, set fractures, dental filings, shrapnel, lodged bullets, etc. And I’m sure that they kept writing, just not in a form that survived until Cuneiform got established.
And Cavil probably just walked in, since Galactica was effectively “part” of the colony. I was wondering how he got past the door that Baltar and Caprica locked, until I realized the number of Dead skinjobs already in the CIC. He was probably faking being incapacitated, and took Hera when he had his chance.
And yeah, I thought that it was the Fibonacci sequence as well, but a few digits in seemed to put that idea to rest.
Boomer and Tory got theirs, and I’m glad that Helo and Hoshi made it. Nuff said.
Now, I just had to say this:
Six years waiting to see the end…
Over $200 spent buying the series on DVD…
Several friends alienated by my incessant talk about this show…
For FRAKKING THIS?
But I need to face it. It’s an Intellegent Design story, and it has been from the start.
March 21st, 2009 at 12:09 am
Why must everything be spoon fed to some people? Don’t you get it? THE OPERA HOUSE was something that happened before… they have done the exact same thing before. The last time it was an OPERA HOUSE… this time, it was the CIC.
It is so simple a little baby could figure it out.
March 21st, 2009 at 12:10 am
Earth 2.0… Assume this cycle isn’t the first one it has experienced. The native humans could be the same as the descendants of the the people left on the 12 Colonies, assuming this isn’t the first time the twelve colonies have experienced this last cycle of time. Dammit.. thinking on a bigger scale, Earth could be 1 of 12 or 13 colonies we are yet to discover, Earth 1.0 could be another (not yet habitable) colony we will eventually find again (or Mars could be Earth 1.0).
I like how the older model Centurions were stronger and tougher but not as fast and efficient as the newer ones.
March 21st, 2009 at 12:14 am
I’m so happy that the show ended this way! The modern robots things creeped me out but I guess that was part of the reaction they wanted from viewers. Kara was just a Head Being at massive scale. (However what was the point of her dying and the musical notes, and the whole musical score Hera wrote in pt 1) The flashbacks from part one rounded off the finale better.
Centurion Spin-off! (It tickles me, walking toasters and crazy organic lady in the tub) They seemed like a juvenile race. They can become the Cycle breakers throughout the universe!
Didn’t each model have MILLIONS of copies? (That ONE Basestar had all the remaining Two’s, Six’s, and Eights? What is the population of a Basestar?) I have the feeling there are skinjobs somewhere not affected to what happened to the “attacking fleet” since the “fleet” was what was doing the chasing. BTW if Cylon FTL only has 3 times more range than colonial FTL, How Did the heavy raider jump all the way to somewhere near the twelve colonies in order to look for The Colony in its original location? Why did the ships loose power in Crossroads? WHY WOULD THE FINAL FIVE AFTER X AMOUNT OF YEARS, HAVE ANCIENT GENETIC TEMPLATES TO BASE THE 8 HUMANOID MODELS ON. DID they keep 8 test tubes in the fridge during their thousands of years of travel. Would resurrection have fixed Anders?
The Opera House could have been done a little bit better. Why did they relate it to Kobol? It could have just been A/AN Opera House?
Couldn’t we have had a D’anna flashback? Number 2 got shafted this whole season unless there is more of him in the deleted scenes. Anders was also shafted by being turned into a Hybrid. NOTE: All Hybrids are the same woman model except for the original hybrid and obviously Anders. RDM could have retconned Daniel into the “hybrids” since they can’t return to their previous normal “state”, and we would have had an even male to female ratio. So the Baseship’s top half and bottom half rotates? (It’s supposed to be one face up Y overlapping a Y facing down yet in the last few eps the Bottom Y seems to have shifted a bit)
Nice touch with Racetrack firing the nukes since she had a deep rooted hate for anything Cylon.
So why was the “One True God” the jealous God again? Because he wanted to break the cycle? What did the other Gods have to do with the plot? What was the point of the Mandala? Was it supposed to be the Fibacci number represented visually? What were the original cylons doing for 40+ years? Why? Tory! why? (Reacting to death and semi-waste of character) The oracle woman? Just another crazy lady? Were the Hybrids deliberately trying to keep the cycle going by warning against Kara Thrace?
Laura’s final scenes could have been a bit more drawn out. So is there no archeological findings of skinjobs and colonials?
So many questions yet i’m satisfied and happy!
March 21st, 2009 at 12:18 am
It was a bit funny to me that Hera was the Mitochondrian Eve. Sine she is a Hybrid did colonial humans not have mitochondrias? Cuz seeing what cylons are, it would make sense that the mitochondia would be what would be derived from the cylons.
Caprica Six and Baltar didnt end up adopting Hera either.
March 21st, 2009 at 12:21 am
There is mention of Kara in the future, a region known as Thrace.
March 21st, 2009 at 12:30 am
SRLY?!?! Tory is not even listed on The Plan? Her character is the one that requires the most depth. The most Underusd Final Five Cylon Award goes to Tory and the most underused Cylon Significant 8 award is tied between Daniel and Simon.
I just made up a little theory that each line of musical score would have led to a different habitable planet.
March 21st, 2009 at 12:53 am
Good idea about the song, makes sence for the next time. Why would it still be importent if you were alreadly where the song took us, it would be useless the next time.
March 21st, 2009 at 12:55 am
I loved it absolutely loved it. I couldn’t keep my butt on the couch.
I think Kara is the daughter of god, just like Jesus is the son of god. Her father was god and she was born to do his work. She died for the others just like Jesus did for us and she came back to give direction and ascended back to heaven when her work was done, just like Jesus.
March 21st, 2009 at 1:04 am
So the colonials are human’s missing link. What a great retcon for our existence. Hera becomes “Lucy”. And I guess everyone from galactica does die at the end – I got that right but not in the manner I was guessing.
Poor Lee looses dee, his dad and Kara. Everyone close to him. He then gets drunk and mates with one of the locals.
I don’t want this to end so some movie ideas for further BSG that also explain some questions I still have:
- Continuing story of the Cylons that left on the baseship. Did they evolve and try to become human-like or as Cavil would have liked to become the best machines in the universe.
- The story of the final five’s life on earth, how they came up with resurrection, got to earth and met the cylons. We could see real earth’s cylons in action.
- The real story of Kobal and that Exodus/maybe couple it with the story of real earth. I’d like to see their technology and what really happened to them. How did they get the 12 gods instead of the one true god. We could see the original opera house scene.
- What did the cylons do for 40 years. Maybe this will be explained in The Plan.
March 21st, 2009 at 1:15 am
First off, I have to say that it has been the ultimate experience to go along with all of you, my friends, my family, on this 1 million light year journey from the Caprica system to Kobol, to the Algae planet to first Earth to OUR Earth.
Second, this was signature RDM style. It took care of the major action sequences in the first 90 minutes and tied off the character elements in the last 35.
I will be honest and admit that I teared up when Adama put the wedding ring on Laura’s finger as she died. That is true love and commitment.
All in all it could have been better by a little bit but it could have been much much worse as well. Leaving Kara’s explanation in the air was great. It was a plot line that left us to ask how or why. Also, typical of BSG.
In the end, it was a great tie off and I cannot wait to see our last little tidbit of BSG…
Yes I am looking forward to “The Plan.” If anything, just for one more chance to see our fave characters in action one last time.
I will have more cohesive thoughts in the morning. For now, I am mourning the loss of a dear friend and celebrating the outstanding life she lived.
This is a dedication to all lost along the way…
CAG (From the mini-series)
Jolly
President Adar
The Raptor pilots lost to the drone explosion
Billy Kyieka (Hoe I spelled that right LOL)
Admiral Helena Cain
Commander Fisk
Commander Garner
Kat (I love you Lucciana!!!!)
Skulls & Racetrack
Dualla
Felix Gaeta
Tom Zarek
Duck
Six
D’anna Biers
Doral
Cavil
Simon
Samuel T. Anders
Tori
Kara Thrace
Laura Roslin
I know this isn’t all of them by a long stretch but I tried.
All of these characters have become old friends to us and they will be sorely missed.
So say we all.
March 21st, 2009 at 1:16 am
I still want to know what secret Gaeta had that Gaius knew about…someone please find this answer (was it the mini-sodes or what?).
That aside…I loved the series, the episode and most of the characters.
Also, I really liked the comment by Bacchus Magnus
About how the world was introduced to polytheism, monotheism, and mythology. And especially UFO’s…the centurians are abducting us…classic
But let me just add that the RDm reinvented earth history sets us up for one sweet thing:
JESUS IS A CYLON
Get it, resurrection. LOL
PS I have not posted in a while, but I called it when I said that Ellen’s lab was not on earth, but rather on the cylon colony. And I am sorry, but I was never, ever, a fan of Ellen being the final cylon…that by far did not work…and I am sorry to point that out, but it needed to be said. I still think it would have made more sense to have starbuck be Daniel’s daughter.
March 21st, 2009 at 1:19 am
When Lee and crew were assaulting the Colony and they stop to take off their helmets and their Centurian brothers are standing next to them, wouldn’t it have been cool if when Lee waived them forward he gave the lead Centurian a fist-pound? Gods, that would have been awesome.
I loved that show.
At the very end when Caprica refers to God, and Baltar say It doesn’t like being called God, what was that about? Are they both God, or God and Devil, or Messengers. Please help.
March 21st, 2009 at 1:25 am
Ok, after watching the final and now the whole series I have to say BSG was one of the best T.V. shows, and I will miss it. Maybe in 23 years, they will remake the series all over again. After all, all that has happened before will happen again.
About the final…
It was great, not completely what I expected with so many “Lost” type flash backs, which I thought belonged in seasons 1-3, not in 4, at the end, where showing more depth to already well established characters was just taking time that could have been used to give us a much stronger ending. The first hour was very good and resolved the whole opera house plot line that started in season 1, the spiril drawing, and the all along the watch tower theme, but left many very big issues unanswered. I thought these would be resolved in the second hour but that’s when things went in directions I thought never would happen. (Second “Earth”!?! heard about it but did not think they would actually use it).
The whole Starbuck issue… an angel on a journey?? Katee Sackhoff said in an interview last year that the ending did not make sense, well, she was not that far off. Angel Starbuck comes complete with viper accessory and the need to frak like shes never fraked before with a cylon. Is told she is the harbinger of death (NOT REALLY) and will lead them all to there end (They survived), finds her own dead body, freaks out, sees her dead father, that teaches here to play the piano using dots drawn by a child. Then when all is said and done its “I’ve reached the end of my journey” and she vanishes… OK?. RDM should have just never killed her and avoided this returned from the dead, without being a Cylon, plot.
The lets leave it all behind issue… Throwing away thousands of years of advanced technology and civilization is a good idea?? I get the idea they were trying to rid themselves of there past and the writers were trying to explain why any technology did not survive to the present, but throwing it ALL away seemed far fetched for a people who for the last few years had been trying to hold onto what they had left of there civilization. Going from an highly developed civilization where humanity is unified to a tribal one where humanity is fractured is in what way a good idea? Also there were still unknown numbers of evil Cylons still in the Galaxy.
The Cylons…
So the Good Cylons with the humans will bread together and start a new civilization, what about the evil Cylons? There were base stars all over the galaxy and as I understand it the Cylon home world was never destroyed. Would not one of the surviving Cavils keep looking for the colonials? At least a sequel series could be made in addition to Caprica. The Cylons invade present day Earth, after 150,000 years they finally find us!
Criticisms aside I think this was one of the all time best episodes of BSG and a great ending for a series of its caliber. For someone who has been watching this show since 2003 with the mini series, I have seen this show evolve in many different directions and the ending was no different. The ending felt long but it was rewarding to the viewers and ended the way the writers and creators felt it should.
March 21st, 2009 at 1:26 am
Most will probably think this is way off — but there are some “Matrix-like” overtones to this series. It will happen before and will happen again…was similar to the repeating nature of The Matrix. Also, one could argue that Baltar and “The Architect” are similar in the same as as Caprica and “The Oracle” are. Baltar and “The Architect” were very analytical and quantitative in nature. Caprica and “The Oracle” were very qualitative in nature. These four are omnipresent — that is they are always present throughout all time for every new incarnation of a new cycle of life. They wonder if the cycle can be broken. It takes an intervention from males with three letters (Neo and Lee) to try to break the cycle (Lee deciding there shouldn’t be a city — they should integrate with the inhabitants — Neo choosing his girlfriend over continuation of the cycle). The Nabukadnezar and Galactica (though Nabukadnezar has nothing on Galactica).
Anyhow, just a thought.
March 21st, 2009 at 1:44 am
but Kara was the harbinger of death–it was never literal, only metaphorical. They left all of their technology behind, a clean slate, wouldn’t you want that? After living on those ships, and the hell of NC and the cylons, wouldn’t a clean, fresh new planet w/life and animals be what you would want? I agree w/whomever said the Opera House was where it happened before, the CIC is where it happened again==I guess it happened on Kobol, and that’s where the angels originated. I don’t know but I still wish Kara had said good-bye. I do feel that their stories came full circle w/the use of flashbacks; and again I loved that scene w/the 5 men in the grass looking at the stone age humans.
A
March 21st, 2009 at 1:48 am
sorry to double post but UNC Zag: the secret that Gaius had was that he knew Gaeta had been handing over the names (although unknowingly) of people he wanted to save to the 8, but they were really being sent to their deaths. The sad part was that Gaeta was ignorant, as the 8 said, and blinded by hope, and saw what he wanted to see, and that deep down, he really was guilty. The manipulation of the cylons over man in this series, makes the simplicity of their ending seem even better.
A
March 21st, 2009 at 2:26 am
Oh my god!!!!! This was ThEEEE most satisfying ending to a series since Buffy the vampire slayer. Even better than that!!!! I could not be more happy about this amazing series and it’s beautiful finale!!!!
It’s late so I will comment more later. I just haaad to jump for joy online before bed!!!! OMG OMG OMG I am sooo fraking happy!!!!
March 21st, 2009 at 2:29 am
Wow, It Ended better then imagined , It’s Fun and Sad But got to the point.
So Head 6 and Baltar,God and Devil rather then Angels?!!?
I think starbuck was an Ascended Being , Still Kara But Much more,She Got To earth and It all came back to her, Who she was, what she did and why Though I wish She had been in the ending scene With The Weird RDM Cameo and The Head people.
Just a Head 6/Baltar-”Hi Aurora” Kara-” It’s Starbuck, Always has been, always will be.” that could have worked.
Though I am left With the Problem I always have when a movie/show ends, I want to see the after story far more then the story that got them there.
I want to see in the Cylons reproduce , I wanna See Adama’s Cabin, and Lee Travel, Tyrol’s Island, did the Tighs Ever get a Liam?
I want to smell Black Holes, Breath Star Dust and so on.:D
But Really, I have not been this satisfied with a show’s End Since Quantum Leap.
And Where was Leoben The Hole episode, He Show’s Up Once I think, Not Even one Last Kara Scene?!!?
Come On DVD!
And Will you Two do a Review Of The Plan This fall?
Also, WHO WON , WHO WON!?!?!?!?!lol
March 21st, 2009 at 2:30 am
Also, WHERE THE HELL IS Xena?!?!
Did They just Forget about her On Old Earth!?!?!?!!
March 21st, 2009 at 3:40 am
I have read must of the comment, and for me, the show is about redemption. And when i read that you are all happy that Tory got kill then maybe you didnt understand the show like i did, and you are not going to break the cycle, and all will happen again :p
Dont you get its because someone wanted revenge from a “tory” that all happend again :O
I think we are clearly in a time of great change, reading the comment its clear pepole want answer, in previous time pepole searched in religion, now they search answer in a tv show, tryng to solve the puzzle of life. I dont know if aliens are really the one who made us, but cleary they are beginin to be the new (or old :p) god in this day of age. Be carefull of what you belive in, because like old day with religion some will use it to manipulate you, and you will just enter another cycle :p
Anyways, the end was great, to bad that the action scene were a little low budget
the special effect in space were really perfect as usual, but the live actor/old cylon was not so well done.
and how does cavil get in the cic, that what strange, like it was missing one scenes.
I liked the fact of course that the show come back to our earth with africa, and all this little touch that bring us home :p
Im really sad that its the end, because i know as a sci fi fan that its hard to get good show/film, so i guess the wait its going to be long.
But i hope with all the love of the show from fans and critics, that the sci fi channel is going to develop some strong new show, because after a more serious show like that its really hard to look at their another show
The other thing is i want more in the univers of battlestar ! i know caprica is in the work, and the plan.
But i really want to see a sequel, with the cast, but its like what they say, everytime a great show end its the same thing, every actors go to does something else, and at one point maybe some of them are going to want do a sequel but the other actor arent going to be free, or the writher or Moore…
The sci fi channel should try to see what they can do to get contract made for maybe in 5years to have some of the key actor do be free to see if a sequel is to be done.
Thanks to sci fi channel ! and all the crew of this show ! and please i want it on bluray NOW :p
March 21st, 2009 at 4:20 am
Everything was given a final goodbye and was explained. Except for Kara? what the hell was she, an angel? Sad how Tori and Boomer, died they made a choice and in the end they died for it. Loved how cavil died, hitler style “Frak” then go boom. The ending was the best, when 6 said “if something happens over and over again that eventually there would one day be a flaw” And if mankind chooses then we could stop it from happening again and again….”
By the way i cried when Roslin died, I haven’t cried during the whole series till the end.
To the best fraking show…So say we all.
March 21st, 2009 at 4:40 am
hey guys remember that kara could be both and angel and a demon. While the New Testament writers were specific in their use of the word “demon” (because any divine presence that came from any source other than God was by definition evil) to the Greeks “demon” was simply a “divine being” (maybe evil maybe not). “Angel” simply means “messenger” or “envoy”. So in a sense she was a demon as well as an angel.
One minor quibble. I would have liked to see Tigh fly out of Galactica with Adama as his wingman one last time (we never got to find out what Tigh’s call sign was. Remember the mini-series Adama mentions him being a pilot.)
March 21st, 2009 at 5:26 am
Are you all crazy!!!!!!
That was TERRIBLE. I can’t believe I wasted my time on this.
I felt like someone ripped out the last 3 chapters of a mystery novel and wrote some sort of sappy ass crap. SciFi even had a web-site called “youwillknowthetruth’ – well, we don’t find out anything.
Kara as a head character??? with a head viper???? come-on.
Where did the music come from? God? give me a break.
Why was Hera special?? Why the need to retcon Nicky?
I just needed a few more answers – not everything, just something. Instead I saw Adama vomiting and Roslin on a date?
I’m so mad.
March 21st, 2009 at 6:05 am
Yeah, jana.. we are crazy and YOU are the ONLY sane one. I hope you enjoy the loneliness of being the only one capable of seeing it.
Now, for the rest of us idiots… what an AMAZING episode and series.
P.S.
Notice how jana represents what I have often said… small minded people who can’t figure out a way out of a box with one opening, and then scream about how the box is faulty because they lack the brain power to get out of it.
March 21st, 2009 at 6:43 am
@From Earth
The Hybrids called her the harbinger of death, and this was true. She jumped Galactica as the cylon colony blew up. all of the other cylons DIED. all the cavils, simons, and dorals. gone, dead.
Also, I seem to remember the hybrids saying something along the lines of “Not an end, but a beggining”
Landing on Earth WAS the end of Colonial Humans, but the beggining of cybrids. What we are, and what we consider “Human” is actually a hybrid of two, now extinct, types of human. The skinjobs were indeed human, as where the colonials.
March 21st, 2009 at 7:35 am
http://www.bsgcast.com/bsgcast-419-“someone-to-watch-over-me”/#comment-33278
I so called it!
XD I knew that the melody in dot-format on that paper was their map to earth *fg*
A really nice ending and I enjoyed it, although I really do wonder, what Starbuck was…
Ah well, probably they’ll tell us in the plan
^^
March 21st, 2009 at 7:46 am
At Roslin’s grave there were two sticks forming a “V” shape…I’m assuming this is their version of a cross? If so, what does the “V” stand for? Their God(s) name?
Secondly, (and don’t get bent out of shape if this applies to you) would it be logical to say that any guy TO THIS DAY that ’shoots blanks’ is not impotent but could actually blame it on his Cylon heritage? I’m just saying….
I think watching the series finale is the closest I’ll ever get to running a marathon! 2+ hours of a literal heart-pounding adrenaline rush. I had weird dreams all night about alternate endings…like an original Baltar in charge of the Colony, Hera looking up on Earth and seeing another Hera with the Neanderthals…etc…
Best Show Eva!
March 21st, 2009 at 7:49 am
Wait, I just realized something! Ellen and Tigh are Still ALCHOHOLICS!
They will go on to invent BOOZE! and found the country of IRELAND!
….
ok, maybe not, but it IS possible! XD
March 21st, 2009 at 7:56 am
Also, I just had another revealation! BSG could lead directly into Terminator! Crazy, I know, but think about it. We create Intellegent machines that rebel and kill us, sounds like the cycle to me. :B
March 21st, 2009 at 8:03 am
This was most enjoyable and satisfying.
The battle was literally epic, and I found myself holding my breath when the Galactica first jumped right in front of the Colony. When they said they would be right on top of it… they really weren’t kidding. Very intense. I think we all saw that Boomer was going to turn around and betray… again. But in a good way. I liked that flashback where she promised Adama she would repay him when it really counted.. and that was it. Great execution.
In truth I expected a very bad ending because this is what we were told we would get – end in disaster. Yet I found it ended extremely well. For each character had their conclusion and the closure they needed/deserved. I was glad Caprica Six and Baltar got together in the end. I thought the Caprica Six/Tigh couple felt so fake and static. It just couldn’t happen. I guess in the end Caprica always loved Baltar, but she needed him to take that leap of faith so she could be proud of him, proud of being associated with him. I thought it was hilarious how suddenly both Head Six and Head Baltar appeared to them. It proved the angels theory right in the end. Some people could find it farfetched, but frankly, I found I liked that.
Adama and Roslin’s closure was very sad, but expected. Frankly, when Adama said he was leaving for good, I expected him to get rid of the last Raptor by leading it into the sun as well or something like that. So in the end, I was skeptical as to why he would leave his son behind.
Starbuck’s conclusion brought a general “wtf?!” reaction around me… and I as well to a point. I don’t believe she was a Head character. I believe she was really there, flesh and bones the moment she re-appeared at the end of Season 3. I see her as an angel as well, but a different kind then the Head characters. She wasn’t even meant to know what she was until her mission was over, and I strongly believe the reason was for both humans and cylons to grow together to their destination rather then simply giving away everything at once. They had to grow and learn to live with each other, and once they were ready was when Kara would lead them to their new home.
The conclusion that made me the most teary eyed was that of Baltar and Caprica Six. How Baltar said they could cultivate in an area ahead and reminds her, and himself that he knows how to farm before crying was heartbreaking. In the end, he realized how selfish he had been and everything he had renounced, only to tie the knots to his heritage again.
I enjoyed the fact that Earth is only a general term. Earth was originally the planet of the 13th tribe, but the next planet, which happened to be our planet, came out as being called Earth as well. It DOES explain why we never saw continents from space when close to the first “Earth”.
Some people go on saying that surely they would not relinqhish technology so quickly and I believe that as well. While I believe most will wave a hand and walk into nature without second thought, some may not be so happy about the choice. This is something that was left opened to interpretation, and I liked that. At once in answered the mystery of civilizations like “Atlantis” for example, who was said to be extremely advanced before it sunk to its doom thanks to war. Repeating the cycle anyone? Perhaps, or perhaps I’m looking too deep into this. However, I do believe it could be possible.
We also got our answer about the Head Characters: angels. I like that. I expected it, really. And I liked how it was said that He doesn’t like to be refered to as “God”. I really did like this. It sent a message that although there is a bigger entity, He shouldn’t have a name stapled to it with various religions. It’s one entity, a state of nature.
The ending was also left to interpretation as lot. Although Head Six believes the cycle is over, Head Baltar doesn’t believe so. It makes it a 50/50 chance that the cycle could start all over again, and seeing those robots gave me chills. We may very well be heading in that direction, only we still have time to take a step back before it’s too late.
I also enjoyed how everything was metaphorical. The Opera House, all along, was only a projection of, all along, the Galactica. Kara being the Harbringer of Death could mean many things, such as the destruction of the Cylon colony. (Btw, the cylon animation was out of the world. I loved it.) The end of humanity was not it’s literal death, but rather its rebirth. The end of humanity was letting go of technology and starting anew.
Hera was, in fact, seen as the Eve DNA. Lovely.
I guess that’s why she was so important.
All in all, a wonderful episode, a wonderful conclusion… and I couldn’t have asked better. This truly is the best show on television.
March 21st, 2009 at 8:03 am
@jana and all who think Kara is a head character. SHE IS A FRAKKIN ANGEL or BoL! Head characters have always only been viewed by a select few. Kara was seen by everyone and she was tangible, she frakked, she fought and she ate. She is NOT , I REPEAT NOT A HEAD CHARACTER~!!!! Sorry, but I read so many posts now with people scratching their head and wondering about her being a HC.
March 21st, 2009 at 8:24 am
I think Earth is whatever planet in the next cycle that God has chosen for the next cycle of people to live on.
March 21st, 2009 at 8:51 am
“Miochondrial dna comes from the mother….HERA”
the skeleton may have been hera’s, but there were 30,000 other alien humans. and i thinking they did they nasty!
otherwise very satisfying ending.
March 21st, 2009 at 8:54 am
My initial impressions of the episode are fairly positive, though I did think the ending did rival the LOTR Return of the King in terms of long windedness.
I noted that it can be argued that given when the fleet arrived on Earth, the original BSG series can be fitted into continuity as that occurred near our present day and it is possible that there were survivors on the 12 colonies and possible New Caprica who were not evacuated after the cylons left in Season 2.
I did think though that there was 1 massive plothole in that while the colony was destroyed/damaged John (Cavil) still had a force of baseships of unknown size and strength roaming around and I assume they had skinjobs onboard who would have been very angry with what transpired at the colony and out for revenge. This could have been dealt with in a couple of ways, firstly have the centurions hang around for a century to provide protection in case found (assume skinjobs have normal human lifespan) or secondly while having Galactica piloted into the sun have the remainders of the fleet under Anders leave a false trail for the Cavil forces to follow away from Earths vicinity before they are destroyed
As for why some centurions still fought for Cavil I assume that they still had the inhibitor in place and these were only removed on centurians on ships the “rebel” models controlled. I assume that the centurions are the children of the one reborn who will found their own country, and I suspect from Caprica spoilers that the identity of the One Reborn will be revealed in that.
Personally I still feel that there should have been 1 more season or half a season then have it wrapped up as there was quite a bit that was undeveloped or unexplained e.g. Centurions views on events, what happened on Cylon Earth, that could have been if there was extra time
March 21st, 2009 at 9:11 am
What kind of ending was that?
Moore came up with the lousiest excuse people ever invented “It was god. It was gods will. No seriously he wanted us to destroy the twin towers, i swear”. What kind of god is that anyway who puts all this effort only into having the same cycle over and over again? it seems “IT’s” only goal is to keep humanity and cylonity trapped in the cycle.
And the colonials are giving up there technology??? They know about the cycle of violence and are intentionally trying to forget about the past? What happened, did i miss the retarding of the human race? The cycle could never have been repeated if mankind would have remembered the outcome of the last. So the answer would have been to invent some sort of relieable, very long lasting reminder (like the temple of hopes, which obviously was some sort of machine). If your forgetting your mistakes then of course you are bound to repeat them!
And Lee talked them into it? Now I’m more convinced then ever that HE is some sort of agent.
And what happened to all the other Basestars and the cylons on board?
To kara thrace being the harbinger of death: a cycle has no beginning and no end, so you can say that everyone who participated ever in one cycle is an angel of death.
Here is what explanation i would have liked:
-Lee is Daniel
Yeah, i know, but think about it: He was always there, Kobol, the Pegasus, the Algea Planet, Karas death AND her return…he would have been in the perfect position to manipulate everything from behind the curtain. He kept the fleet togehter, Kara just complained about her life, got drunk and killed people. And for the admiral being his father: the cylons build human brains, do you really think it would be difficult for them to manipulate them? All the five had false memories and they’re brains seemed to be pretty human (I always thought the physiological differences between human and cylon where on a subcellular level, nanotech or whatever).
-Lee and Sam were together, maybe even married
(not necessary, but i would have loved the consequences (Kara/Sam/Lee triangle) of that;-) And it would have been a great explanation why Cavil got nuts: because one of his creators liked Daniel (Leland) so much more then him that he actually decided to live with him.
-Sam managed to save the original template, gaving him all the knowledge of the five. Last thing he did before he died he released a virus, deleting all Knowledge on Daniels look, voice etc.
Daniel fled, but returned when he heard about Cavils plans (Possibly through convincing some copys of the “good” models, sixe’s, two’s and eight’s to spy for him) for the colonys and the five.
-Then he tried to manipulate everything into place so that: at least a part of humanity survives, because the universe must be a boring place with only thirteen different people (sixteen when you count raiders, centurions and hybrids as well), cavil gets destroyed or boxed and sam gets back to him.
- He could have even induced the visions and head people by some sort of highly advanced artificial nerve cells who infected the people around him or something. And there would still be room for some sort of higher power which intervened.
The end scene could have been: Anders jumps into the sun, next scene he wakes up in a tank (Sevens had plenty of time to build more resurrection hubs. Buy the way: the central technology of there civilisation and theres only one hub!?!?) and gets greeted buy several Lees. Turns out “our” Lee convinced the humans to give up there technology to buy the cylons some time to delevop without interference.
From metal to flesh…the next logical step would be light, pure energy.
Yeah i know just fanboy fantasies but still better than “God”.
And yeah i realise it would have been only a different variant of the actual ending: explaining everything through some deus ex machina, literally.
But seriously: giving up technology and hoping it will all turn out good like the many last times (see Kobol, Cylon Earth) it did except it didn’t? Thats just stupid.
Nevertheless, except for some parts of the second half of season 4 it’s still one of the gratest shows i know and even this ending can’t change that.
Oh and english is a foreign language for me so please: correct my mistakes but do it gentle;)
Thanx for reading.
March 21st, 2009 at 9:21 am
Absolutely incredible. Completion. Outstanding.
I was wrung out last night (still am)…it was too much to assimilate, felt a bit disjointed, but I think on reflection, this ending was almost perfect.
We see now about Kara and Lee, their shared secret (egos!), it is all so clear. We see why Adama made the decision to be on Galactica for his last bit before retirement…We see how Laura couldn’t stand a life of pleasure but no meaning, and decided being a cougar wasn’t the way she wanted to live her life. She wanted to do something meaningful with what was left of it, which led to her being on Colonial One when the attack happened.
The tie-in to agriculture with Gauis at the end, of course, had me in tears. Loved the way Gauis and Caprica fell in love for real (babies possible now, haha). And that the Agathons were so happy.
I love what they have done with Kara throughout the series (although I would have liked Kara and Lee to get a little lovey-dovey before she disappeared). I loved Anders at the end. I loved Chief as the hero who prevented Cavil from getting disastrous powers of ressurection, but the fact that he wasn’t trying to be a hero….he just had to take revenge for Cally’s death. Awesome; redemption. I loved Boomer’s redemption too.
I feel so sad for Lee though. He’s so alone.
I KNEW THEY WOULD FIND EARTH. I KNEW IT!
I loved the ending showing the advances in robotics. Really scary.
I loved the nod to Blade Runner with the asian woman on the big screen on the building.
Quibble: I think Ron’s cameo could have been a little less obvious.
The only trouble I have….
…is the ’starting over’ without technology bit. Even if I can swallow the suggestion that 39 000 people would agree to this, which I can’t, we all have to admit that ‘pioneer’ life (farming, hunting, gathering, building cabins, etc.) is really tough. Really tough. Tough as in you die really fast without knowledge of what’s edible, reliable ways to hunt, seed to grow crops that you must guard against predators and pests with your life, protection from things that will eat you, etc.
In short, you don’t just build a cabin like what was suggested by Adama, on a hilltop. I like to think he went back to where Lee is and lived with Lee and the others – and I will think that, because the alternative is just silly.
Likewise, you don’t just head off to the hills, ala Caprica and Baltar. You need to work together, have division of labour, stay close for safety, work together to hunt and share the kills…
If anyone can help me swallow this, it would be very appreciated. But it doesn’t matter much. It was a fantastic end.
I loved the way Ron got all teary at the end of the Space channel’s special, at midnight last night (which was completely hilarious by the way. They had a hybrid and everything, too funny. I didn’t think I would want to watch it, but I really needed to decompress and digest and it helped me a lot to calm down enough for sleep. And who knew Seamus was so deep? I had always had hated him on Canada AM or whatever CTV morning show he hosts, but now I feel totally differently. Who knew? Don’t judge a book by its cover, Tootie.)
You’ve given us all a gift beyond measure. I love you, Ron. Thanks.
March 21st, 2009 at 9:21 am
It was an amazing series that I thought took the best of DS9 story-telling and weaved it in. I always loved RDM’s work in Star Trek and now I can view Trek with a new appreciation of what can happen on Earth if the cycle of violence between man and machine.
God created Earth as a paradise and it’s up to Man to keep it that way. I hope the new Star Trek movie keeps some sembalance of this theme going.
BTW, do you suppose the the irradiated Cylon Earth and 12 Colonies are now sufficiently cleansed by 150,000 years of time to be considered paradise worlds once more? Places for mankind to flee to if the cycle starts again?
March 21st, 2009 at 9:32 am
“…” _________ “…” i am speechless, hold me
March 21st, 2009 at 9:41 am
I wont name just one because it was a work of many… but if by any chance anyone that worked on the show comes across this…
What you have done with this show, the brutal honesty about the human condition, makes this an epic masterpiece worthy to be told down through the ages. I have high hopes that this story will be told and retold for hundreds of years, and serves as a marker for generations to come, to show just what PEOPLE were really like NOW.
THANK YOU ..THANK YOU ..THANK YOU.. this show will forever be an inspiration for me and many others. It’s through our stories we best understand ourselves, and we connect the most in that way that can’t quite be described in words, but in a certain common feeling……and like many great stories, don’t be surprised if life imitates art here, maybe just a little
….Thanks again!
Immortality achieved..you all will live forever in this work of art, for me, my children, and my childrens children …SO SAY WE ALL!
March 21st, 2009 at 9:50 am
I have a question if Helen could be resurrected, as she was on one of the base ships whats to prevent this from happening again, not only with her but the other 4. I know resurrection was not possible for the others but for the final 5 it seemed to be different. But with that being said I did love the ending even though it left some questions still unanswered.
March 21st, 2009 at 9:53 am
The cycle repeats. Is anyone else thinking terminator?
March 21st, 2009 at 9:58 am
bad way to end a good series… where was the sense of guilt that they were trying to make people feel like in the start? All i saw was robots and that this will happen again okay???? It was supposed to be more dramatic and leave a sting on you like oh my god i have to go change my ways what is the world coming too.
Horrific ending to a great show… season 1 and 2 were the best 3 and 4 went bad. Probably got new writers…
Also did someone put in place a dictatorship while taking away technology from 39,000 people?? You know if i can go to the store and get a milk and go milk a cow and i am being given a choice…. i would go to the store. Also how do you make a cabin all on your own without an axe or technology?? Odama has been smoking too much… hes too old to do manual labor.
Also i found it very weird that people were going solo all on their on, living in different places and getting away, making their cabins… dude you don’t even know how to make a cabin Tyrel seriously… how you going to cut trees? Using the hands you choked the (i dont know her name whatever) final 5 with. A lot of things wrong with this… but it was good to see it finally ended. They didn’t pay attention to details in the last episode but who cares about the details it was a good 2 hours. Good ending but not great. And it’s not like they are on burger kings budget they can’t do perfection like Peter Pan… so all is forgiven. Good episode.
So whats the next rip off bsg show called? and who is alienware and why is he giving away a computer???
March 21st, 2009 at 10:19 am
Going back to Charles Plot Hole Point… Jumps themselves are untraceable. There has to be some sort of special condition inorder for the Cylons to be able to find the Colonials. Gas leaks, tracking devices, knowing the location of where they are heading etc etc. A base ship would have to jump back into the Black Hole’s parking space and sort through the debris of the entire colony to discover that Galactica had been destroyed…
The Colonials believed that New Caprica would be safe because the Cylons didn’t know where they were and they would have been if a nuclear explosion in open space didn’t give away they’re starting point. The starting point is an area in which dradis is completely and utterly fraked. And given that the Cylons knew before hand where Colonials were going Kobol/Earth.
The Cylons don’t know where the hell this planet is. Its somewhere none of them have ever been before.
Even on the off chance that the Cylons did find the planet, no ships (except for a couple of raptors left powered down most of the time), no cities, and a race of primitives that could not be the Colonials living on the planet already… you’ve essentially got the best camouflage your going to get. Cylons pop into orbit… they aren’t going to detect anything on they’re Dradis. They would have to go down and get dirty and find a band of humans that were wearing the Colonial clothes without any reason to believe that they would be there…
They gave up they’re defense for the ultimate hiding spot. And they just have to last a generation or two before it becomes impossible to tell between primitive and Colonial because for all practical terms with the exception of a bit of knowledge… there won’t be one.
March 21st, 2009 at 10:31 am
Alright going into the Kara argument now… just because I can… Normally I would agree that its a bit far fetched that Kara for head character/angel to be corpral except for one thing.
We’ve already accepted that Head characters/angel can be corporal when they wish. Going to jump back a few years here and remind everyone of when Baltar was in brig (the first time) for planting bombs in the defense mainframe cores areas(something that never happened). Head Six vanished, and the Secretary Six came into the picture. Once the fake plot was discovered, that Secretary Six vanished leaving only her glasses as proof she was there. Head Six came back the same day.
Now looking back at Kara’s Resurrection… it becomes possible that she was a Head character/Angel all along… and therefore much easier to accept.
March 21st, 2009 at 10:41 am
“There are those who believe that life here began out there, far across the universe, with tribes of humans who may have been the forefathers of the Egyptians, or the Toltecs, or the Mayans. That they may have been the architects of the great pyramids, or the lost civilizations of Lemuria or Atlantis.Some believe that there may yet be brothers of man who even now fight to survive somewhere beyond the heavens…”
Those were the words that ran through my head as modern day NYC, my old home town, came across the screen. It was all I could think about. So if we are all on Earth 2.0, could it be that the desendents of the Fleet of the Colonies be who they were talking about???? Could some great great great great (X10 cause I am not going to keep typing that) taught zero to the Mayans? Or taught Greece or Egypt science?? Could some of the Colonists’ descendents formed Atlantis??? As a fan of both the original (when I was very small it was a show my entire family watch) and the modern (againt family fav) it just openned sooooo many questions for me about this. It was all I can think about. Oh and I loved the tip of the hat with the theme of the old show as the fleet flew into the sun.
And being a HUGE geek, I remember that article about the mitochondrial “Eve” that was found. And to make it Hera I thought was just brillaint! And I loved the fact that RDM was the one reading the article. Made me laugh. And I think the question he is asking via the end will we be destroyed by our technology was great!!! And is Jimi God????
I was honestly very worried about this episode, but it did not disappoint!! I lovd everything about it. And I love the fact that the CIC is the opera house, because it has been the heart of the series. Soooo many things happened there, so why not the end of the war? Well, until Galen found out what Tory did. Brillant!!! I loved that that finally was out in the open.
Angels seem to walk among them. And when Caprica and Gaius turned to each other and said “You see them” at the same time made me laugh!! And I loved seeing them walk throught NYC, but I would have loved seeing Kara with them.
I have sooo many more thoughts. I’ll probably post more, for now, gotta run!
March 21st, 2009 at 10:50 am
i didnt like the ending (cheif is an idiot)
March 21st, 2009 at 10:51 am
I don’t feel cheated.
Kara was afraid of being forgotten. We know who she is but not what she is? (She is not a head-character, but something else) Kara is important for what she did and not who or what she was.
Athena – goddess of the hunt – explains the little exchange with heo at the end.
Lee talks about democracy and travel, he is the precurser to greece
Gaelin goes to a cold north island of a continent (Ireland)
Baltar is a farmer and precursor of mesopotamia
Hera is in africa
Tory is dead but maybe she would have been the hindus valley precursor on OUR earth.
The skin jobs could go to the americas.
But the truth is, only hera’s line survives. The others disappear in time. It would be over 130,000 years before modern anatomical man leaves the cradle of africa.
The cycle is broken because the humans and skin jobs as isolated species die out leaving only one line (cybrids).
It was a good day. So Say We All.
March 21st, 2009 at 10:55 am
when the show starting I’m expecting Galactica to be exploded. It did not happened finally but at least show me Galactica hitting sun and exploded.
btw… I like the initial bombing scene.
my questions…
everyone on the fleet accept the idea of leaving technologies behind easily? no further corum discussion???
humans 150,000 years later discovered as descendant of Hera (cybrids) … while at least 30,000 real human survive, they didn’t reproduce with original human? by the way show did not show many survived cylon skin job settle on the earth 2.0…
about kara…
she can’t be everyone head angel… remember back when she came back after her viper exploded… everyone tries to prove the returned kara DNA was not cylon. She just disappeared at last was not fit the story.
March 21st, 2009 at 11:01 am
Not a perfect ending but very intense and emotional.
My biggest problem with the finale was that there was not alot of death. I expected to be losing characters left and right through out the show, but as a surprise almost everybody lives happily ever after. Also Cavil’s suicide was a comedic moment. John had quickly become a sinister figure, that knew almost everything about the secrets of the cyclons, but his death seems like a speed bump compared to how epic the show was.
On the other hand Tori’s death was great. The character had become a snake in the past season after killing Cally. The murders reveal to Cheif was the trigger to thrust galactica to earth. It was very sad to see Cheif wonder off alone, but he said that he was going to a cold island in the north. This makes me think that “Gaylin” Teryol was the founder of the “Galic” culture!!! – very cool.
Also Roselin’s end was very bitter sweet. She did defy prophecy by seeing earth before her death, but I’m glad that the writers felt obligated to have her die of cancer, which 150,000 years later still destroys people’s lives. I’m very sad for Adama – he was a Mose/Noah for his people that lost his ship and his love in the same day.
By far the greatest passing of any character was Sam. For five episodes we saw him become a shadow of his former self while transforming into the beating heart of Galactica. As the battlestar parked itself outside of the colony it was Sam that turned the tide and shut down the hybirds making Hera’s rescue possible. It was heartbreaking to see his departure from Starbuck but I’m confident that they did see each other on the other side.
Which brings me to Kara. I think that Starbuck did die in “Malstrom” and that was her body on old earth. She was with the colonials on barrowed time. She was never an angel or a god, she was Kara Thrace chosen by God to die and be resurrected to serve a purpose and then to ultimately ascend into the heavens. When her mission was over she could no longer live because she had already experienced mortal death, thus her body could no longer stay on earth.
Overall a great episode to a near perfect show that i will miss.
March 21st, 2009 at 11:10 am
About the cycles…
God Gaius did mentioned, “cobol, earth, the real earth before this one, caprica before the fall”
1st cycle – at cobol planet – at the opera house in the hallucinations – as written in pythia
2nd cycle – … I can’t figure out the 2nd cycle.
3rd cycle – probably the planet of final 5
4th cycle – recently at Caprica
so, there was 4 cycle then. some of us believed 5th cycle is on 2012
while at the end if BSG was real, Darwin theory was totally wrong about our ancestors
March 21st, 2009 at 11:29 am
@Ryan – No love for Kendra Shaw, eh?
Anyways, I did a rewatching of the episode, and, picking up small details like I do, I realize that Racetrack was dead during the “raptor launching nukes” scene that came after the Tyrol killing Tory/shootout in CIC scene. Since my parents have a DVR I replayed the scene and had to pause it. When it goes to the interior of the Raptor, you can see that Racetrack is dead by her pale skin and the cracked visor. So that rock that hit the Raptor caused her hand to hit the launch button.
If there is one thing about “All Along the Watchtower” that proves a point, it is not that Jimi Hendrix is God (because it was Bob Dylan that came up with the song in the first place), is that music is universal. People say that math is, but I don’t think its as universal as music can ever be.
I’ll be giving a better review later. I just figured I’d post a bit of two cents here.
March 21st, 2009 at 11:48 am
What a ride. I am exhausted after that.
I will miss BSG. I started watching from the very beginning when my life was in a bad place.
Now things have changed, moved on and are much much better. BSG has been with me through all the bad times giving me the escape I needed from time to time. It was not until it ended I realised I felt this way.
Smoosh over.
Best bit? – Helo in the field!! He lived!
Worst bit? The end. Did not like the future flash.
March 21st, 2009 at 11:59 am
I’m really glad how the series ended.
it answered the questions I wanted answered and wrapped the series up very nicely.
Thank you RDM for the best TV show I have ever watched.
March 21st, 2009 at 12:36 pm
I cried during the episode last night. I cried afterwards when I watched the Space Channel special on BSG (didn’t plan to watch that, but very good help to decompress), especially at Ron Moore at the end, when he got teary.
This morning, I woke at 6 AM with tears in my eyes, and they were different tears. My partner asked how I was, and I said I had had a bit of a bad dream. (He is not caught up on the episodes and is watching season 4 now). He said he had had a bad dream too. He said he was on a ship.
I said I was too.
And I was.
In my dreams, and my waking hours, I was on a ship. Not just any ship, but a battlestar. Not just any battlestar, but the best one. One with people I loved, people who will always be with me, moments and emotion and evolution that we shared together.
I cried bitter tears today, because the dream is over, even as it lives on. These tears will pass.
I also cry tears of joy because the re-imagined Battlestar Galactica is a dream realized. It’s story is real and life-changing and life-giving and has changed me. It has made me believe that more than I thought possible, is possible. (That is, if a show like this can get made, then many other things are possible that I wouldn’t have bet on).
It has given me more motivation to see things and see people in different lights, with all their shades of gray.
It has made me stronger, in that these people kept going through extremely difficult circumstances (yes, I know they aren’t people, they’re characters, but still!), I can surely get through mine.
It has helped me accept that there aren’t answers, some of the time. There are only questions, more questions, angles, perspectives.
March 21st, 2009 at 12:47 pm
Okay, so Adama said “What are the odds of human life evolving one-hundred thousand light years away” and the end sequence started out 150,000 years later. So the series was set ‘A long time ago, in a Galaxy Far Far Away’ and the theme was droids (centurions) fighting clones (skinjobs) while an unseen ancient ‘force’ of nature beyond good and evil directed the events to bring balance to humankind. Interesting.
March 21st, 2009 at 12:51 pm
@towfx
I don’t see how that would change our ancestry, it’s not like there weren’t humans BEFORE the colonials arrived, we saw that. The only thing Hera changes is the origin of the Mitochondial DNA, which, in Darwin’s evolution, would have been a random mutation. BSG just made it a meaningfull one, that was created ON PURPASE.<how do you even spell that word? purpose perpase? e.e I feel stoooopid!
March 21st, 2009 at 12:52 pm
This episode was okay, but it could have been much better. It was really preachy at times, when Baltar suggested a designer I almost felt like gagging. I was able to tolerate the the religious nonsense and the “villain” (Cavil) being the sole Cylon atheist because of Billy Keikeya, and because of Baltar & Leoben being such awful people often because of their beliefs. This episode had too much theology, and it ruined the ending. It should have just ended with Adama next to Roslin’s grave slowly zooming away. The ending with the two angels talking to one another and Ron D. Moore was goofy, uncreative, unnecessary, predictable (coming from me), and provoked only frustration. The nuclear missiles firing upon the colony by a dead person falling on the button screamed Deus Ex Machina. The opera house scene was expressed in too literal a fashion, it just felt like they were trying to make it make sense at the last minute. Not that they weren’t trying to make it make sense at the last minute, just that I wish it had felt less like that were the case. Battlestar Galactica as a series suffered continuously by ideas that looked cool, but didn’t arise from any ideas or planning. Retcons often dug into the heart of the plot, sometimes working, such as with the Final Five & Daniel, sometimes not, such as with Nicky and most of No Exit. The series itself may have been better had the writers and producers watched the finished product before starting it.
CB2001- As for music being universal and mathematics not being, music is cultural and preferences vary greatly from person to person. Music is a human thing, it sounds universal to us because music is written to match what us humans like to hear, and from our perspective it seems Universal. Mathematics on the other hand was not invented or created by anyone. It is the same everywhere in the universe, and would continue to be true whether or not we or the universe existed. It is nice to think that music is more universal because almost everyone likes some kind of music and many people find math to be dull. Also music does involve some math, albeit simple.
March 21st, 2009 at 12:52 pm
@ Jack D Talbert
WOW XD
March 21st, 2009 at 12:58 pm
First off – Matt & Nat: You have been fantastic with this website. Thank you for everything!
To everyone here: Even if I didn’t always agree, you guys & gals have been awesome companions.
To the cast of BSG: Thank you for a great run.
The Opera House. Was that God’s stage when the drama of this existance plays out?
I think Kara was sent back to right a wrong that she did back on the original Earth. That could explain her Viper & body being discovered. Maybe her ship caused the original war that nuked Earth. Someone could have thought the ship was an incoming missile and retaliated. Her coming back gave her a chance for redemption – which she earned.
I think that made Ander’s line of “See you on the other side” that much more powerful. He knew what Kara was and knew that he would see her again.
March 21st, 2009 at 1:18 pm
amazing episode. I must now cry & wank myself to sleep.
March 21st, 2009 at 1:21 pm
Shauna, that’s a very interesting theory. That would make Cylon Earth’s climate more like cold war… very interesting… (queue’s 99 luftballoons) WOW that song would be SO RELEVANT! mistaking an alien for a missile and blowing up the world!
March 21st, 2009 at 1:41 pm
A truly magnificent episode to end a magnificent series.
I like the fact that Tory’s purpose as a final five is to avoid Cavil getting the ressurection technology.
Cavil’s suicide was actually funny to me.
The battle was exhilarating, but what’s the fate of Racetrack? Can she jump with a hole in her Raptor’s windscreen? And why didn’t parts of the cylon colony near galactica blow up when galactica jumped?
I’ve read some negative comments about Starbuck’s storyline not answered. But I think it’s a smart move by the writers. Because in reality there are things that we still don’t know, i.e. God/gods/supernatural beings, quantum physics, mathematics, etc. This makes BSG more closer to reality for me.
The ending scene was memorable not because of RDM/head baltar/head six in NYC. But because of the two homeless people and than a pan to the TV showing advances in robots from our own reality. At firs,t I only considered the robots and wondered if RDM is making a statement for anti-technologist. But I realized that maybe the message is that if we still treat certain people as lesser human exemplified by the homeless people we’ll probably treat robots also as a lesser being which, will re-start the cycle of violence between human and machines again. This is probably the case in the colonies as shown in the episode “the woman king”. So, the message is probably for us to repair the relationship between races of humanity which is maybe stressed by Ron Moore, David Eick, Mary McDonnell and Edward Olmos’ visit to the UN to talk about race relations.
The optimistic note by head six about whether the cycle will re-start or not is probably to make us realize that the story is given to us now. Whether we want to re-start the violence or life in co-existence with all culture of humanity and in the future with machines.
well, enough babbling from me. I don’t usually post my thoughts about BSG, but the message given in this episode feels so immense that i have to write it down.
March 21st, 2009 at 1:52 pm
@Pavlov’s God – I agree those are excellent questions and loose ends that would be great to see resolved in some way.
@Sirslam Yes, the eternal recurrence theme is Matrix-like and there are some similarities as you pointed out.
@UNC Zags – Baltar knows that Gaeta did “play both sides” on the New Caprica Cylon occupation. Also, he did give names to the Eight he was in love with as @Athena mentioned. Yes, these things did show up in Webisodes.
@Sorshadeanin I totally agree that RDM did BSG the right way and explained the intro to the original series (TOS) far better than TOS ever came even close to doing. My extended rant is at http://williamweb7.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!12B00422028A0296!179.entry.
@towfx – cycles that I noticed were Cylon Earth (Earth 1.0), Kobol, 12 Colonies, Earth 2.0 (us). The Final Five from Earth 1.0 did find or rediscover resurrection technology which suggests an earlier cycle that is only implicit due to the RE-discovery of the technology.
@CB2001 It is true that music is more universal than math in that pre-literate cultures do make soothing sounds for themselves and their offspring long before they can know math, science, etc.
@Tootie I did not know the Space Channel had a special episode. Thanks! I will check it out!
@Jack D Talbert – Lots of analogies can be legitimately made. George Lucas credits lots of previous SciFi such as Flash Gordon as well as Carlos Castenada and other influences that do not detract from Star Wars. I have noticed a lot of similarities between Star Wars and Dune series especially. Tatooine = Dune, Luke Skywalker = Paul Atreides, spice = Force, etc. You do make some good comparisons though.
March 21st, 2009 at 1:57 pm
Sometimes being a former Classics major, does come in handy. Etymologically, the word “opera” is Latin for “the works”. With this in mind, the term “opera house” could simply be interpreted as any place where the work (of the One True God) is done. The visions and previous character actions are resolved in that one place which was chosen by the OTG as the place to do His work (i.e., the Galactica CIC). Confirming this, the head characters, as the emissaries of the OTG, are there to witness His (and their) works come to fruition. In the end, the secret of the Opera house is surprisingly simple. The place itself is neither magical nor mystical, it is merely a workshop. A divine workshop, certainly, but a workshop nonetheless.
March 21st, 2009 at 2:00 pm
@Shauna I do like your theory that Starbuck’s ship could have started the war on the Cylon Earth 1.0 and that whatever Starbuck is can move freely across time coordinates. Then Chezzykat’s reference to the lyrics Nena sung on ‘99 Luftballoons” could come into play and be a rendition of this event.
March 21st, 2009 at 2:20 pm
I’ve been looking at the response to the episode, particularly the ending in New York. Personally, I enjoyed that part, but the only thing that is nagging me is whether the ending would have been even better if they had just stopped at Adama looking over the hills at Roslin’s grave. I think had this been a movie, that would have been the ending. The New York part felt like something that would have been shown after the credits, but obviously TV doesn’t allow that.
March 21st, 2009 at 2:32 pm
BATTLESTAR GALACTICA!!! THE BEST FRAKING SHOW I’VE EVER SEEN!!!
LOST CAN SUCK IT!!!
March 21st, 2009 at 2:35 pm
AND I LOVE LOST!!!
QUESTION: How long until BSGcast continue? What happens next after we’ve all watched the new show CAPRICA and BATTLESTAR GALACTICA: THE PLAN?
March 21st, 2009 at 2:36 pm
Sorry: How long will BSGcast continue?
March 21st, 2009 at 2:42 pm
Could have done without the RDM guest appearance at the end. I figured he was going to look at the camera and say something, luckily he didn’t.
March 21st, 2009 at 3:27 pm
@Heath – good question that only MATT + NAT can answer. However, there are BSG sites that have been active since the 1978 original series so it does not have to die or go offline. Besides, there is http://www.archive.org that tries to archive the entire Internet periodically. Additionally, going forward, MATT + NAT have a new site http://www.capricast.com to do vlogs of the prequel series that starts sometime in 2010 and premiers next month on a special DVD. I look forward to MATT + NAT’s review of the finale episode.
March 21st, 2009 at 3:31 pm
I was looking to re-watch the finale episode but did not find it on http://www.scifi.com/battlestar nor http://www.hulu.com. Anyone know of a place where it is already posted?
March 21st, 2009 at 3:34 pm
@Xanthophyll
MEH, RDM needed to be there, it made us know it was OUR earth
March 21st, 2009 at 4:11 pm
@Tootie
“I loved the nod to Blade Runner with the asian woman on the big screen on the building.”
Sorry Tooter, that was a robot. Pretty damn scary too.
As for the ending, once they reach Earth2, it became a bit weak to me. How could they convince that many people to give up culture, technology and really basic stuff. Without it, how many would realisticly survive after 1 year in a new climate, with new diseases etc.?
I guess I just have to give that some leeway, since they kind of ran out of time to explain more. I am looking forward to archeologists finding Adama’s raptor.
It did not make sense to me either btw, that so many close people split up. Adama just leaving his son, that he finally grew close to, and his best friend. Also did not see many cylon’s amongst the people spreading on the planet.
All in all, it could have been a much worse ending, but with all leading up to it, all the possibilities, it still feels a bit too hollow to me. Some theories made on this forum have had much better substance.
March 21st, 2009 at 4:12 pm
… Come to think of it,
the fact that you failed to recognise the Asian as a robot, makes it the more scary :O
March 21st, 2009 at 4:43 pm
the last episode missed some key moment for me, and the last few episode developed story that wasnt that much important to me. Like galactica been save by the cylon technology was way too long with so little hour left to finish the show.
only small corridor…
The flashback were a good idea for where kara and lee but im not sur if we needed all this flashback near the end. They did provide some background info but it took one episode with so few left.
The final battle was a little cheap, not the in space special effect, but the live action in the cylon base with the old cylon. And the stage for the cylon base was so little, like in a stargate episode
I think the show should had a few more episode, not like one or two season more, but a few more hour to finish the show in a more smooth way. I still want more ! Im of course looking forward for The Plan, but i want more !
I hope the Sci Fi channel see what worked on this show, to have more drama, more real issue, and not a tv show with only stand alone episode to not think, and just past time.
After battlestar its really hard to go back to stargate, and cheesy joke, with bad story…
I love scifi show that are in space like battlestar, so i hope we arent going to wait years for a new good one, maybe the next gen V can bring some off what battlestar had…
So now, im looking forward for the bluray release of the full show, i hope we are going to get lot of director cut episode :p
And please dont region lock the bluray !!!! im sick of not been able to buy the episode on itune because im outside of the US, or have to wait for the chanel in my country to program the show. I want to support the show so that tv exec and other studio movie head see that the market for this kind of show is huge, but please dont over price the box just because its on bluray im not rich :p
And i hope Caprica evolve and be a little more in space as the show evolve in time, and not be only about AI for 4 years! they could do a little of AI and other stuff to then bring the show into the first cylon rebelion and the first cylon war, with a little more in space battle and story telling :p
March 21st, 2009 at 4:48 pm
Osmium- Sorry but I’m gonna have to disagree with just about everything you said in your post.
I say just about everything because I agree about the continual retcons their were far too many. The show was continually reinventing itself as it went. While they kept the overall creative juices flowing the discontinuity was jarring to say the least.
However I’m gonna have to break with you about the “religion nonsense.” One of the most refreshing things about RDM’s science fiction is that it doesn’t treat religion as something only the “evil villains” or the “simple primitive folk” believe in. Regardless of your personal religious background (and I have no idea what RDM’s background is) there’s no denying that serious people accept it into their life. RDM has said time and again that the whole grounding of the show was to tell how real people would react to the end of the world and religion plays a huge part in real people’s reality.
No doubt your offense is to the religious symbolism or to the numerous “coincidences” that cropped up throughout the series. People in real life interpret these as spiritual in nature so seeing interpreted so here is no surprise. In fact if it wasn’t there i probably wouldn’t have watched the show as long as I have.
As far as the laws of mathematics go they only exist in our universe. Just like time before the Big Bang there’s no way to know if either time or mathematics would exist in any form. That said music and mathematics are related to one another. I had a musically inclined friend of mine (who was pretty good at math herself) say that “Music is math that’s why music students tend to do better in math.” Music uses meter and time and is set up in a very structural way using similar rules to math. And don’t forget people understood complex music and art before they understood complex mathematics.
March 21st, 2009 at 4:54 pm
oh and by the way, cylon are coming near you real soon :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWTEBHJGe7Y
someone said in this thread at what point do you know if a robot think or comput, its the same m8 :p
olsmos said at the UN that race doesnt exist, it was just created to divide and conquer, but probably its the same for what we call the soul, and when we will be able to replicate our brain in a robot and then teach him he has a soul… anyways, i recomand you watch the United Nation battlestar pannel :p
http://webcast.un.org/ramgen/ondemand/specialevents/2009/se090317pm.rm
March 21st, 2009 at 5:19 pm
I’m willing to bet that when Baltar says “You know IT doesn’t like that name” he is referring to The Eschaton. Ever read Charles Stross and other Singularity fiction? Very trendy thinking right now and I can easily imagine that the writers would have that concept in mind.
March 21st, 2009 at 5:22 pm
I watched the finale twice last night, and I never saw Nicky w/Tyrol, when did that happen? He walked off alone in the end.
A
March 21st, 2009 at 5:31 pm
So this is what happens. The centurions go back to kobol. There they evovle yet again into “human” models. A few centurions leave kobol to go colorize some other planet. Kobol starts to dry up. On the planet were the centurions went it was already inhabited by a humonoid lizard species. Those lizards learned face and outnumbered the cylons. They fought a war with them and the centurions were destroyed.Meanwhile back on kobol the new 12 tribes are formed a leave to recolonize the same 12 planets that the first colonials did.So the 12 colonies are formed. Soon they start exploring there local space and discover the lizard “cylons”.The reptiles try to recreate the centurions they destroyed in order to have as foot soldiers to fight a war with the “humans”.So of course the centurions rebel against the reptiles and continue on fighting the humans.Then they all find earth in 1980 and give us a head start in robotics. Then the earth cybrids create skynet wich rebels against them and then it creates its own human models who are sent back in time and one becomes the governor of California.There you have it.
March 21st, 2009 at 5:32 pm
another strange thing in the last few episode is tyrol and boomer story line, they bring them back together, make us care again for them (great!!!) but do nothing with it in the last episode :/
its even worse, they kill boomer, and tyrol kill tory because she killed his wife, but in the last few episode tyrol realised his true love is boomer, so why dont he kill athena ? :p
i think thats were the flashback with boomer/adama should have been use to do more with boomer/tyrol love story.
That little thing like that i found strange in the last episode, and maybe they sould have use the few hour left to do something more logical, why tell us tyrol true love is boomer, that his wife was cheating on him, and then have him kill tory and not athena…
March 21st, 2009 at 5:32 pm
meant to say learned fast not face.lol
March 21st, 2009 at 5:34 pm
I agree with Jana, and am amazed at how few people here are aghast at the last hour of BSG. The first hour, Daybreak Park 1, was one of the best hours of Battlestar I’ve watched. Definitely up in the top 5. I wept with flashback Roslyn in the fountain, and got chills with flashback Kara and her obvious sweet soft love for Zak. I squirmed watching Baltar deciding whether to save his own sorry ass or join the fight. I was so touched by the moment in the hallway with Eddie and Bodie Olmos–the first scene I can remember since Hotdog’s first episode of the two of them directly interacting on the show. I was so amped for the final two hours!!
For a week I read hypotheses of how it would all end, and what the last two hours of Daybreak 2 would bring us. We had theories galore, some wacky and stupid, some brilliant and thoughtful, and some just plain hysterical. We all seemed to agree, though, that there was something huge coming. Something for which we’d been given hints all along the watchtower… um, I mean all along the way. People, myself included, rewatched the entire series in the past few weeks, reminding ourselves of what happened and looking for important things we may have overlooked when we didn’t know who was a cylon or who was going to live or die. People heatedly debated just what Ron or David or Bear or Jane meant by every word in every interview and podcast (there are hundreds of pages on Jane’s “I’ve always taken it to be Kobol” remark alone!). We were all ready to see if we were right, if we were smart enough to figure out the clues and put it together.
And then Daybreak 2 aired. And–and I’m trying to write this without the pit of rage and disbelief I have churning in my stomach making too much of an obvious show–and we learn that pretty much it’s been angels in the forms of Six, Baltar, and most recently Kara Thrace pushing everyone toward landing on Earth (no, not that one, the other one) so Hera can breed with cave people and make humans (no, no those humans, us humans).
Um…huh? Ok, I’ve always secretly hoped BSG was in our past and not our future. Hey, why does their paper have to be ours without corners, rather than ours being theirs with corners? I’ve read enough to realize that in the science fiction world, a million years ago is as foreign as a million years ahead. So I’m smugly happy there. And I’ve been saying since the miniseries that I hoped that we (the audience, that is) were all shown to be Cylons (or Human-Cylon hybrids as I later decided) so we can understand the true message: that the belief that the universe can be split into self and other, and that other should be rejected, is a stupid belief. (Yeah, so I’m a peacenik. Throw me out an airlock.)
So I should be happy with this ending, right? I got what I wanted, right? NO WAY! What about all the clues? What was the point? Why did it matter that this was the smartest written show on Earth (no, not that Earth, this Earth) being watched by the smartest people alive? If this ending we’ve been given was the truth, was really the way the series was going to go to being with, then why bother with half the story points and plotlines that have come up over the seasons? Why bother?! A red herring here and there is one thing, but these aren’t just red herrings–they’re entire story points. If in the final episode you’re just going to write in “God planned it, you all followed God’s plan, so long and thanks for all the algae” then why write in all of these other aspects that we’ve all been clinging to for four seasons? Lucy Lawless could have summed this all up as soon as she showed up on screen: it’s all wizards.
Hey, it’s his show, and Ron Moore can do what he wants (including inserting himself into it in the clumsiest cameo ever–unless his hairstyle was supposed to be a secret hint that this was the year 1988 we flashed to…hmm I may be on to something here) but I’m resentful that he asked me along on this wonderful and convoluted trip only to tell me that the answer to it all was pretty much the least interesting one, that there was no symbolism and only surface-level facts. Ugh.
So…here, off the top of the head, is list of a few things I thought were important, but can find no longer find any reason for in the series. (Though I’m only listing a few, there are likely hundreds…but the hour is getting late.) Anyone who feels like I do, please add to the list below of SITSMACs: Seeming Important Then Suddenly Meaningless Aspects and Clues:
Kara and Hera being so closely named
Introducing Daniel at the same time as a storyline about Kara’s father
Introducing Daniel at all
The entire character of D’Anna Biers/5
Caprica Six getting pregnant…by Saul Tigh to boot!
Learning that Laura Roslyn’s family has been killed by a drunk driver while we watch six other major cast members drinking to excess
The park with the fountain Rosyn climbs into in the flashbacks being the same park she walks through in the miniseries (the floating giant balls!)
Tigh losing a specific eye, the same one in which he imagines shooting Adama
Head Six telling Baltar that their actual child will be born–repeatedly
Either 90% of Leoben’s scenes with Starbuck, or alternately his one scene saying “I was wrong” and running away. (You can’t have both with this ending!!)
The entire character of Tyrol. (Think about it. With everything that happens by the last episode, why have him at all? A stray bullet could kill Tory.)
And for that matter, the entire character of Tory.
Hera being played by an older actress who also looked a lot less Sharon and a lot more Helo (is “less Korean” accurate when referring to Battlestar?)
Helo having sex with Boomer in the locker room while Athena is tied up
The civilian ships demanding to strip Galactica (in about three days later they’ll be happy to leave all that behind and go all nomad-farmer)
Baltar’s group wanting government representation (again, happily nomad-farmer in three days)
The entire character of Tom Zarek
The constellations seen in the “holo room” being a map to destroyed Earth, but matching our constellations here on Earth
Half the references in the Last Supper picture including:
Natalie pointing at whomever she’s pointing at (I always took it to be Helo)
Natalie being in the picture at all
Roslyn lighting a fire which moves in front of Baltar when you alter the picture*
Tyrol holding a knife that moves behind Baltar’s back
Anders seemingly being replaced by Lee next to Kara
(*I’m talking about the picture alteration everyone did where you superimpose one half on the other using the two glasses of water as a center point)
(PS: If in Caprica or The Plan we find out that God likes to be called “Ron”, I’m gonna go Cavil on that motherfrakker’s ass. No, not suicide Cavil, real Cavil that…oh, frak it already.)
March 21st, 2009 at 5:44 pm
OK I have a few things to say.
First the mitochondrial DNA from a little girl. Anyone catch the fact that hera died as a child?
Also, the colonials really were idiots. Let’s start over with no technology blah blah blah. They forgot the single most important thing about history. Those who dont remember the past are doomed to repeat it. So it happened when they left Kobol. No one remembered that they had already created artificial life there and then it happened again.
Now for the finale they throw all their advancement away and somehow they believe that without passing their history and accumulated knowledge on here on Earth that history wont repeat itself.
Nice ending for this saga except the whole insane idea that you could get 30,000+ people to willingly give up everything even if it is for a simpler life. Not only that. They deep sixed their ships and all that so if the cylons ever did come back it was like saying here I am kill me now please.
Oh well….when we finish our own cylons we’ll see how it turns out this time around.
March 21st, 2009 at 5:55 pm
In case anyone missed it here’s the Caprica preview that aired during the series finale
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okC5HjMANF4
March 21st, 2009 at 6:14 pm
The head beings really shined in the finale. Messengers of the one true “God” (though I hear “it” doesn’t like that name.) If they looked like Baltar and 6, then does that mean that when they appeared to Anders and Tory on Earth that they looked like them?
ONE TRUE GOD: Obviously saving that reveal for Caprica.
I don’t mean to brag, but I called it, in referring to Kara being a type of head figure.
Roslin had one of the most beautiful death scenes I’ve ever seen.
Baltars’ moment of “I know about farming” choked me up.
Tory and Boomer being killed may be justified, but their deaths saddened me a bit.
Kara taking them to New Earth: “….and they shall join the promiseland gathered on the wings of an angel. Not an end, but a beginning.”
The flashbacks showing how they all got to this point were amazing. Especially showing how Baltar didn’t show the defence systems to Caps for sex, but out of love.
And of course the eerie sense at the end of the series: “All of this has happened before, and it will happen again.”
As a final note, let me say that I have really enjoyed BSGcast. It has been a usual site for me to go to each week, for a while now. I’m not trying to kiss butt for a prize or anything. I just want you guys to know I’m a fan. I’ll continue to watch Your Geek News, CapriCast, and of course your review and discussion for The Plan this November. Thanks for keeping me entertained in between episodes.
Oh, and I may weep upon your review of the finale. Yeah, I know. I’m a big wuss.
Peace, and much love,
FilmFan28
March 21st, 2009 at 6:23 pm
After watching again I had a totally different reaction. Last night I was elated, oh my god, a happy ending. Then I found the 2nd viewing so different, not a happy ending, really it is a very dark ending on a very light, bright, beautiful planet. These survivors face a stark, lonely existence, and it is all that is really left to them after the holocaust and their struggle to survive. They have survived and found what they were looking for, a planet to live on until they die, and that is all they have. The 38,000 + the ceylons will split up into even smaller groups around the planet without tech to ease their way. It is a new beginning, but not a truly happy ending.
After reading these posts I have had a better understanding and appreciation of every episode, good, great, and bad, and that is what has made this show so great, being able to share so many peoples thoughts, research, experience, opinions, etc., has made this BSG experience so much fun. Thank you all. Godspeed.
March 21st, 2009 at 6:32 pm
I saw it asked, but didnt see it answered:
WHAT HAPPENED TO XENA?
March 21st, 2009 at 6:40 pm
@Johnathan: If by Xena you mean D’Anna Biers/3, she stayed on the original nuked-out Earth. We get a one liner from her telling Tigh at the end of that episode that she’s going to stay because she’s had enough of it all. Then he goes for his no-its-not-a-suicide-it’s-a-way-to-introduce-Ellen-as-a-Cylon water walk.
If by “what happened to Xena” you mean “why in the world would a carefully crafted character suddenly be written out of a show with a lame one line exit”…see my post above!
(PS to all: Sorry for my typos in my earlier post. D’Anna is a 3, not a 5. Roslin is spelled Roslin, not Roslyn. And all of my em dashes turned up as en dashes… confusing to read.)
March 21st, 2009 at 6:51 pm
@ Lords_of_Kobol:
BCE and BE are interchangable.
It would be 148,000 BE or BCE and 150,000 BP (Before Present ["present" being roughly 1950. BP is an archaelogical use]).
Adalla Says: Here are some of the questions that are left unanswered:
1. How does Kobol, the Lords of Kobol, the 13th Tribe and the 12 Tribes fit into all of this?
2. Is the Earth shown to us 150,000 years later populated by humans or hybrids?
3. Can the skinjobs actually reproduce?
4. Where did the indigineous humans come from?
Actually, ALL 4 of those questions WERE answered.
1- watch the whole series, that gives you the answer as to how the tribes of Kobol fit in.
2- Populated by the decendants of Colonials, Cylons, and indigenous Humans.
3- Not with each other, but with humans.
4- They evolved here.
Thee_Immortal_One Says: Gaelin goes to a cold north island of a continent (Ireland)
–Tyrol Specified highlands. Scotlant is more likely.
March 21st, 2009 at 7:28 pm
Should have been baltar who went to ireland. He is the english sounding one.
March 21st, 2009 at 7:58 pm
Just watched it again. (recorded it on tivo). Adama said that this planet is one million light years away. Meaning that they are from a galaxy far far away.A reference to the original which was also in another galaxy.I guess there jump drive can make jumps anywhere in the universe with the right coordinates.
March 21st, 2009 at 8:04 pm
Wait a minute. A long time ago in a galaxy far far away? Lucas better not find out.lol. Mabey thats how there are humans in the star wars galaxy. I am a bit of a scifi geek. I found out that the star wars films take place around the earth year 1776. So bsg is a really long time ago in a galaxy far far away.
March 21st, 2009 at 9:02 pm
I was definitely underwhelmed but I wouldn’t go as far as to say I didn’t like it.
It was too much of a goody-goody ending. I actually think it would have been more meaningful if Cavil or somebody had nuked the planet they were on but that wasn’t really possible because it was made quite clear it was our earth.
Are we all in agreement that Kara was only an angel after she died? Why was her mother going on at her about a special destiny then? Hell how did Leoben know in season 1? (Thats probably a cheap shot though because much was undecided back then). It almost seems like overkilll having two angels in characters minds and then a physical angel to boot just to guide humanity.
I never expected the Tory/Chief/Cally storyline would be so important. I also found it unbelievable that Cavil was so easily persuaded by Baltar’s ramblings (Was he seeing angels too?).
I thought it was absolutely hilarious when Cavil killed himself-it was like something out of South Park if I am honest! Also did anyone think the centurions kept going down way too easy? I mean in season 2 we established only explosive rounds have any effect yet machine gun bullets were absolutely ripping them apart on the Colony (except of course for the ones surrounding Cavil-they were invincible again!).
The Opera House bit was well worked in alright-also the fact it was actually head baltar and head six in the president and Athena’s visions. Come to think of it, why was Athena having visions? I think it was established that all the skinjobs had the Opera House vision though.
It was genuinely sad when it came to Adama and Roslin. Easily the most emotive part of the episode for me.
I would have totally done Starbuck on the table by the way!
Sad its over and I really need a second watch of that.
EDIT: Oh and the robots and the end was completely over the top in my opinion and I also wondered about the ‘it doesn’t like being called god’. If he wasn’t one then why would they hold him in such reference that he would be an ‘it’? Surely he would just be our boss….Joe or something!
March 21st, 2009 at 9:39 pm
Ron Moore just answered what is Starbuck in an interview.
He said she was resurected by a higher power. She was not a head figure like Six or Baltar. Beyond that he wants to keep people talking about what exactly she is. He said he likes that that nobody knows exactly what she is including Ron himself.
I kinda like it that way, too much explanation wouldn’t work for me. I love films like The Shining where it’s not spelled out for you.
March 21st, 2009 at 9:41 pm
I have an idea about what the BSG timeline could have been, based on the information from the show and a couple theories here…
Billions of years ago: A race of humanoids create sentient robots to do their work. The robots rebel and kill their masters. Over millions of years, the machines advance, to a state of pure energy (weird I know, but just think of what continual advancement could do over millions of years, a bit like evolution) they become god-like, but there was a glitch in the original programing, making them obsessed with the cycle of violence.. They use their new God-like powers to set up the events which will lead to humanity and… cylonity?
ANYWAY
4000 Years ago: 12 survivors (human or skinjob, it dosen’t matter) from the last cycle settle on a planet called Kobol, their decendants separate into 12 tribes. These 12 tribes create robots which rebel and leave. They are the thirteenth tribe. They then settle on a planet called “Earth”, where they create machines to do their work the machines rebel, but DO NOT kill their masters, unstead, they settle their part of the planet, and the skinjobs settle theirs.
2000 Years later/ ago: The skinjobs and Cylons from Earth are in a state of cold war, suddenly, out of nowhere a small ship falls out of the sky, containing a certain angel called “Aurora” Both cylons mistake it for an enemy missileand wipe eachother out (queues 99 Luftballoons) 5 scientists survive this cycle, using ressurrection, and leave for the other 12 colonies to warn them…
40 years ago: the five arive at the 12 colonies to find them at war with cylons. they make a deal with them, and the war ends, and the next generation of skinjobs is born….
About 30 years ago: A child named Kara Thrace is born, she is the “angel” AUrora reincarnated. Aurora returns to fix the mistake she made in the last cycle (when she made earth destroy itself) her father subconciously learns a melody, and teaches it to her…
4 Years ago: Cavil destroys the cColonies, a small group of “humans” survive. this group includes Aurora.
1 Year ago: Aurora’s mortal body realizes it’s higher calling, and dies
Less than 1 year ago: Aurora returns to the fleet, unsure of her destiny. she realizes it through the music* that her father taught her when she was a small child.
Now: The music guides Aurora and the fleet to a new home.
Aurora/Starbuck’s true purpose was to deliver Hera to the site of the next cycle. She does this to make up for how she frakked up the last “Earth”
*the music, it is the underlaying pattern of the universe, first picked up by the ORIGINAL cylons and it became part of their programmed universe. It seeps through every cycle to guide the cylons/humans to a new home.
…
Does anyone like it? PLEASE point out any holes in it!
Also, any visions, like the opera house, are just the remains of the last cylce overlapping the current one.
the head characters are other guardians who direct the other characters involved, so that the cycle can repeat.
I chose to have the “God” be a machine because it would explain why the cycle is so repetative and meticulous. only a glitchy machine would do that…..
so…. yeah… I suck for doing this.
March 21st, 2009 at 9:47 pm
Is it just me or is it every time someone says “Head Figure” that I think of William Shatner in 3rd Rock?
Does everyone (ok not everyone – But close) have to tell everyone else that they don’t mean to brag but they called it? Isn’t that bragging since you are letting everyone know that you knew? Not to brag, but I called it – The Connecticut Huskies were going to win the first round of the NCAA Tourney (and they did)!
Remember, when you type “the hole thing” it is not the same as “the whole thing” – one encompasses nothing and the other, everything.
Now to BSG -
It was a pretty good episode. Mostly Satisfying for a finale. I agree with many of the posts though that talk about some issues that were lacking.
One thing for sure, I loved the original mini-series. I loved the first 25 episodes and the story it told. I thought most of season 2 and 3 were convoluted and weak for story telling and lost the edge that the first season magically had on me. Ratings for seasons 2 & 3 might have been (or was) the reason there was only a season 4 for finishing the story. Season 4 was better than 2-3 but almost felt they cashed it in by cramming the end of all these story lines quick like, that were never given the time to fully develop.
I would state that I enjoy Sci-fi & technology type shows (Star Trek, SG-1, BSG, etc) but my very limited understanding about Singularities and Black holes is that they emit some level of radiation (or it is a byproduct if they don’t directly emit it). We all know from the mini-series that radiation does not sit well with the Cylons, ie: Leoben on Anchorage. There must have been some great Shielding to prevent radiation on that colony or wouldn’t that have been the worst place to be as a cylon long term.
So Boomer was a quadruple traitor? She Shot Adama. She mutinied with the Cavils. She stole Hera from the Colonials for the Cavils. She stole Hera from the Cavils and gave her back to the Colonials. Whew!
I agree with many of the posts that think that we needed about another 20-30 episodes.
So we brought back the Cylon Doctor and PR guy but didn’t elaborate on Deanna or Leoben in the finale? I would have thought that Deanna and Leoben would have been in the front lines of getting Hera and ending the war with Cavil or at least with the Final Five in the CIC.
I wonder…Was Lipkin’s Presidential dog named Muffit? Did he stay president? Or did each colony get a president?
Based on the ending, there is only one type of movie that can be created, a prequel. After BSG: The Plan, There will be no more BSG to tell. That is the most depressing part of this Finale.
So why didn’t Boomer and Galen have kids? As we find out, it was biologically possible. Not even pregnant, once? No miscarriage, no discussion of wanting kids or not, but they never talked about birth control. They had sex in every part of the ship, on duty, off duty, before and after missions… It was not a matter of love, as we find out it was very clear that they really did love each other. We all know that their relationship wasn’t that secret among the crew or officers. I know, I know, they didn’t want to have kids because they had their careers. I thought Boomer wanted kids…at least that is what I felt from the Mini Series
Speaking of kids, I hope they didnt forget to get Boxey on one of the transports. He has had an 82 episode absence and Boomer was very fond of him. He was probably 19 or 20 by now and will most likely star in the BSG spinnoff – yep you guessed it: BSG ‘10 with a bearded Edward Almos.
So that Cylon detector from season 1. It caught Boomer (But Baltar didn’t say anything). But it missed Father Cavil, Deanna (She was a reporter in the fleet at the time), Galen, Tigh, & Ellen. After those few episodes we never really heard from it again. It makes me think that it was a great idea for an episode, but when you make some of the main characters cylons, it was a problem that they just had to forget about.
How did Baltar get from his nuked apartment to the raptor in the mini-series. Angel? Or is he really dead and pulled a Kara Thrace for 5 years….Hmmmm. Maybe he should have been humming “Knocking on Heaven’s Door” for 4 seasons. If that is the case, then that Six died too? Angel? No wait – she was resurrected. Now that is a question that I would have loved answered. If Baltar and Kara are the same type of being, why didn’t we get to see a future Kara walking around NYC? That would have been a great tie-in and provided definitive closure.
Did the colonists at least bring down some farming tools and how cool would it be to see Baltar tending the field in suit. Or Six for that matter in that red dress. How does that conversation go…Six: “honey, can you give me access to your defense shovel?” Baltar: “The things I do for love…”
I don’t think to many women will be knocking on Lee’s door in the new world. They will just look at his track record. One killed herself, the other just disappeared….
If Caprica has one “known” Human looking Cylon (via resurrection or other means), it will completely ruin all canon for BSG since skinjobs were not specified prior to the mini-series and specifically stated that they didn’t know they existed.
There are so many things that made BSG more than just a sci-fi show or a space drama. Those things are why Caprica can’t and won’t be on the same level. Not to say Caprica won’t be good, it very well might be. It just will not be able to create the magic of BSG, so I hope they don’t try. It looks to me like LA Law meets the OC except in the make believe BSG universe instead of the Fake Orange County. 2 Seasons Tops (yep I called it)
I wonder if there could be a true spin-off of BSG. Instead of Battlestar Galactica, it is called Battlestar Orion (Put name here – it doesn’t matter). Where the Commander of that Battlestar has a crew and cast that instead of following the “one True God” follow the Many True Gods of Kobol, so we can see if it takes them to Earth 1.0, 2.0 or 3.0. Maybe we can get Dirk Benedict to come back and be Commander Face Man!
Overall – A very good series Ron – It will be missed. The candle just went out a little too soon.
March 21st, 2009 at 10:07 pm
BSG is now officially a prequel of bsg1.0.At least by my standards.
March 21st, 2009 at 10:08 pm
Or rather unofficially officially.
March 21st, 2009 at 10:10 pm
At the end, where we see Baltar and Six, just for clarification, those aren’t the characters that we saw throughout the show. Those are the BoL/head characters etc etc. Also, Kara was not a HC this whole time. So many posts with so many people not understanding this.
March 21st, 2009 at 10:11 pm
Plus then theres a sequel movie coming out. Its called Terminator:Salvation.
kidding.
March 21st, 2009 at 10:14 pm
Oh and for those who didnt get the lee/kara at the end. That was her ghost. She flew into the sun with anders.
March 21st, 2009 at 10:16 pm
So satisfied… I’ll bother to think about it later. For now though… so satisfied…
March 21st, 2009 at 10:20 pm
One question remains. Will we survive the next 20/30 years? Or will we destroy ourselves or will it be our own creations?
March 21st, 2009 at 10:30 pm
Last comment. Jamie knocking on heavens door does fit rather well.
Mama, take this badge off of me
I can’t use it anymore.
It’s gettin’ dark, too dark for me to see
I feel like I’m knockin’ on heaven’s door.
Knock, knock, knockin’ on heaven’s door
Knock, knock, knockin’ on heaven’s door
Knock, knock, knockin’ on heaven’s door
Knock, knock, knockin’ on heaven’s door
Mama, put my guns in the ground
I can’t shoot them anymore.
That long black cloud is comin’ down
I feel like I’m knockin’ on heaven’s door.
Knock, knock, knockin’ on heaven’s door
Knock, knock, knockin’ on heaven’s door
Knock, knock, knockin’ on heaven’s door
Knock, knock, knockin’ on heaven’s door
M+N once again not here to win anything but I at least hope to get mentioned on the bsgcast.
March 21st, 2009 at 10:47 pm
I’m sad that Lee and Kara didn’t get to be together but
I’m tickled that it did finally work out 100% between Gaius and Caprica…well 99.9% nothing’s perfect
Ever since day one I just wanted it to really work out between those 2 crazy sexy kids
March 22nd, 2009 at 12:26 am
SO i had mixed feelings initially. Wish I could watch it again at will, however, i was out of town with no access to DVR.
Best moments:
1. Tori get’s killed (finally)
2. The epiphany you get when you realize the Galactica IS the opera house
3. Racetrack and Skulls during this episode, they were awesome, sad to see them die
4. The flash backs to moments when the characters made or faced difficult decisions in their lives.
5. Kara disappears (love how we know what she is, but don’t know what she is) I’m content with that.
6. Starbuck and Anders moment (he really was going to see her on the other side… and soon.
Worse moments (for me at least)
1. Cavil suicide (that was almost comical and happened too fast for such a formidable foe)
2. Head 6 and Head Baltar 150, 000 years later (their dialogue made the message of the story too obvi for me)
3. Ron Moore: if you are going to be a cameo, please stand in the back ground like Stan Lee, and not have your face take up half the screen, thanks.
4. The plethora of commercials: what is this, the superbowl?
5. All of the unanswered questions left from my first viewing of the epi. But a lot of them were cleared up by this message board. Thanks!
hope to watch this episode again! great series, will miss greatly!
March 22nd, 2009 at 12:34 am
Yes, Kara was not a head character, ever. She was resurrected, and hey, her going to the bathroom in front of Baltar made her human enough, right? I thought that maybe was the point of that weird, but great moment. She was often the rocking chick we loved, and she did bring humans to their end, because it was their new beginning.
I think the way she left, was devastating because she and Lee were so entwined, but I think that he knew deep down, that she could not stay. I think we shippers just wanted a few words before she left, as after everything they have been through, 2 sides of one coin, it should have happened. Lee saw her die, and he even says that to her–just like he asked Adama if he would have really cared if Zak had gotten off that viper and was a cylon? The answer is NO. She enabled him to create a truce w/the cylons that led to their victory and home.
i was glad to see that what they saw on Kobol was where they landed due to the “song”. i also liked how it looked like what Natalie saw before she died–they really did end up in heaven.
As for them not using technology and living out their days w/out it? i doubt that they lasted for decades, but hopefully they got the peace and enjoyed the beauty of a planet before they died. After their lives being so ugly for so long, it was great to see them all at peace. Plus, the human race was not extinct, they were from a different cycle, and humans were developing on the planet already.
Night all!
A
March 22nd, 2009 at 12:34 am
The Show was all about inter-twining fates, and how everyones destiny played a role in continuing they survival of Hera and whats was left the human race (as well as good skinjobs).
But what if during one of the flashback sequences RDM went further with Roslin’s father and sisters car accident being caused by a drunk drive which turned out to be LEE ADAMA after he left Karas ( after all that whole bit of almost frakking your brothers fiance would clearly mind-frak anyone). They could have played that card which would have really been crossing some weird paths of fate.
Call me sadistic but if could have made some interesting storytelling!
March 22nd, 2009 at 12:34 am
Ok all, some closing comments on this wonderful experience we have come to know as BSG.
I teared up during several key moments-
When Roslin died and Adama placed his ring on her hand. Then when he was saying goodbye to Lee. FInally, the scene where he was on the mountain top talking to her spirit. That is true love.
All in all I would give this one a 9.75 out of 10. That’s a new record for me since the previous record holder, DS9, was a flat 9 out of 10 in my book.
Goodbye Galactica…. and we thank you.
March 22nd, 2009 at 1:05 am
This was a great finale. LOVED THE MUSIC! I loved the different variations of “Shape of things to come”, “all along the watchtowers”, and “roslin and adama” and the others. I liked the SWAT team mix of centurions and colonials. They finally communicated, with hand signals. lol. I don’t know about you all but in the scene where Adama and the others are pointing at the map of where they are going to set up living sites for some reasons reminded me of the Olympian gods surrounding a miniature stage with clay “mortals” to play with like in “Clash of the Titans’.
Things I would have like to have happened instead:
-Athena and Helo : As much as i like happy endings, i think they should have died and had Baltar and Caprica take care of Hera. It would make what Head-Six said come true, that Hera would be their child.
-Roslin and Adama: very touching. I cried when they were in the Raptor and she died, and he put his ring on her finger. Also when he’s on the ridge next to her grave. As lovely as this was, I would have like it if they had a greater last moment together dialogue. I LOVED the Babylon 5 Sheriden and Delenn “goodbye” scene.
-Leoben: This is a character I’ve like since season one. Its a shame we didn’t get to see much of him in 4.5 and even in the finale. What did he do during all that time? Part of me wants to think there’s deleted scenes with him. Maybe hes the one who rallys the centurions, because they have to be convinced to do things now.
March 22nd, 2009 at 1:19 am
So my thoughts:
The Head-Angels discuss our world and how it reminds them of the past. Six, however, believes that it is not going to repeat. Yet, then the show flashes through all of these robots that we actually have, even showing a human-like-one. Scary.
First things first because it seems an annoyance to me that people would complain about this. God/higher beings/etc. I am atheist, always have been. I loved the ending. For those people that are like me or similar, there is no higher being. If you felt annoyed or angered about them adding a “higher-power” to the show, then you should not: watch any television, read any book, look at any painting, watch any movie, listen to any music, or go outside your house…they are out there, I know scary, right? I wasn’t annoyed because I know that it is just part of the show, not telling people to believe, that was never the point, if you thought that you missed the point. ***The point, always was, is to not praise in technology that lessens our humanity in some way (i.e. robots that do our work) because it takes away from the human experience.*** I ask you, my people, to let it go and see the show for what it was beyond that. If you do not, then you are like the Christians that you might despise for them despising you, leading you to the very existence that the show was fighting against. It is a continuous cycle of hate. Some people may hate/look down upon/dislike/etc. Atheists for not believing, but let us end it here. End the cycle and accept that people do believe in some force at work in the world. While I and you do not, we have to accept that this is a story teaching a point that I noted earlier, and the “higher-power” on the show was a medium to influence what was to come. Since one of the first times Baltar saw Head Six, she said that she was an Angel. So, finally…get over it or live in a whole somewhere. [Sorry, this had to be said after reading numerous complaints on a multitude of forums.]
The ending was overwhelming for me. Every time that I saw a flashback, I saw how each of the characters got to the Galactica and how they arrived at their final destiny, and everything just fit together so damn well. Laura starts smoking after her family dies in a crash, then she has cancer and with Adar. Kara and Lee almost cheat with Zak in the next room, sets up them coming together later on, but since they almost cheat, they would always be almost-together, yet never fully. Bill turns down a desk job because they question his word, a man that had fought so hard and so long in the first Cylon war to kill all of those frak’n toasters! How dare they?! So he stayed with Galactica and his best-friend, Saul, followed, leaving Ellen unhappy cheating Ellen. Gaius tries to hide his roots, and Caprica helps him out with his father, so Gauis feels for her (love?) and gives her access to the defense mainframe; so the second war starts. See how everything fits so damn nicely together? Beautiful. Very, very artistic Ron. It was a great way to see how everything got to where they were at the present.
The action in the finale was by far amazing. Guns were blazing everywhere, Galactica getting hit left and right, frak…. It really did end with a bang (the series, not the finale). The big mafia-style shoot out in the CIC with the Cylons and Humans at the end was so good; it reminded me of the end of Enemy of the State, with the firefight starting over a mistake. I cheered when Cavil shoot himself in the mouth. Marines fighting through Galactica was great, as they fought alongside Centurions with a red stripe. Outside the ship: Hot Dog lead the Vipers. The one when first introduced everyone was thinking, “What a dork? He cannot even fly or shoot right.” And now look at him. He’s all grown-up. That fight was also amazing! What with everyone shooting each other. How nice? Oh, and I loved having a dead Racetrack get hit by an asteroid and accidentally hit the Cylon Colony. Perfect end to them.
The Opera House/CIC: Amazing. As soon as they showed the first flash to the Opera House, I saw in my head everything that was to unfold, and so it did. So perfectly set up. There is so many comparisons with what happens in the CIC with an Opera, it’s so beautiful. I cannot really say much more than we all saw, but Frak! So good….
Adama: “Let’s call it Earth.”: So that is our Earth. They left technology, which seems like a smart move, especially with all that has happened because of it. There journey ended and so did everything else. Kara, our materialized-angel, says he goodbye to Lee. Adama says his goodbye to Galactica, the cockpit, and Laura. Tyrol goes off to Greenland by himself. Anders to ride off into the sun (nice nod) with all of technology. Ellen and Saul together like they always were. Caprica and Baltar go off to farm (Baltar going back to his roots). The flash-forward 150,000 years. Ronald D. Moore!
Randomness: I figured Gauis was going to stay with Galactica, he just didn’t want his people to get hurt. Caprica feeling so proud of him reminded both of them of the love they once felt for each other. Oh, and the one funny moment, Caprica and Gauis both see the Head-Angels and are freaked out that they both see them. I think everything was answered.
Final thoughts: The best frakking show ever. It played out like a book and now it set a higher-bar for what a show should be. I’ve been watching since the mini-series first came to SciFi Channel (soon to be Syfy…ugh, don’t get me started with that). So I felt like I am part of the show in away. This show has changed my life and how I look at life and I thank everyone that took part in this show, and thank you! It will never be forgotten as long as there is people ot watch it on DVDs and reruns and etc.
“This has happened before and it will happen again.” “So say we all!” “Frak!” “Toasters.” Goodbye my friend. Goodbye my companion. Thank you Battlestar Galactica.
-Mario
P.S. If I forgot something I’ll mention in a later comment.
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Frak Party in Cleveland, Ohio went well. Donated money to the Red Cross. Plenty of people, food, pop, snacks, and joyfulness. Thank everyone for giving their money for charity and enjoying the time spent watching the show. My Frak room is now lessened.
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March 22nd, 2009 at 2:16 am
Holy frak what a great finale
First of all I want to give a shout-out to all of people who came to the frak-party in Toronto, it was great.
While I loved the finale
I found that didn’t really explain the whole Kara Thrace or earth 2 very well.
So…these are few of my theories/comments on the loose ends
About the technology loss- I thought Adama was on the money when he said that give up their technology. It makes sense that their technology should be abandoned in order to really integrate with the native earthlings. The fleet has to be on a somewhat equal footing, so not to become too much of a godlike people in the eyes of the natives, and the fleet has to not view the natives as inferior beings. Both of which would be virtually impossible with the fleets huge technological advantage.
One thing about Kara, something tells me that that Daniel is the head voice that guides Kara on her destiny. I believe that everyone in this show has a role or path that they must finish in order to be fulfilled. In the Razor the cylon hybrid states that, All this has happened before and will happen again, and that Kara Thrace will lead the human race to their end. I remember before kara died she gave Adama the aurora figurehead for his model ship to lead it, and just like the aurora figure, it’s Kara’s purpose in life to lead Galactica/fleet to earth(s).
Now I know that there are two earths, the devastated one kara brought them to first and the one she brought them to in the finale. The first earth was the earth that repeated the cycle, so it was destroyed. I believe that Kara was resurrected because she had to lead the human beings(the fleet) to their end(the destroyed earth).Maybe kara lead them there to make the us see the consequences of repeating the cycle, and for the fleet to see the devastation on earth. I believe seeing earth destroyed broke them down so much that it would be impossible to get back up without the cylons and humans REALLY functioning together.
March 22nd, 2009 at 2:31 am
Well, the end has come.
Just as Star Wars is truly George Lucas’, so too is the new Battlestar Galactica, Ron Moore’s, and I must not to judge what should have happened or what would have made the story better, because RM has put down the ending that he thought best and without him there would have never been a story in the first place. However, saying that I have one thing I am surprised I have not run acrossed as I skimmed the almost 200 comments (forgive me if this has been stated and I missed it); no one seems to mention that Tigh and Adama never got their goodbye. One of, if not, the most fleshed out and important relationship in the series never got its final goodbye. I am positive RM remembered this relationship so I am almost certain it will be a deleted scene, but its absence from the final episode made me feel a lack of closure on one of the most fascinating relationships.
Just wanted to throw that into the discussion and see if anyone else had any opinion on how that relationship ended.
March 22nd, 2009 at 2:42 am
all in all a very satisfying ending
a few comments:
– the fade from that shot of Adama barfing on himself to the shot of the fleet was brilliant.
– Racetrack, she rules, even death can’t stop that bitch! if it weren’t for her they’d all be dead.
– Good centurions vs. evil centurions fight scene was pretty intense.
– Baltar finding out he really IS an instrument of god.
it would have been cool to learn a little more about the hybrids.
and I was hoping to see another old school gold command cylon, but no luck
Glad to see the show end before getting stale.
“so say we all!”
March 22nd, 2009 at 2:43 am
What a mind frak of a finale. I am a total ancient history, Myth and lore fan and the last half hour just made my mind race with never ending thoughts. I think the ending left it open for some really good books that would explore the stories of all the major characters and some new ones too. I also would love it if they tell the story of the remaining centurions and what they did or where they went after leaving Earth mark 2.
March 22nd, 2009 at 2:56 am
To Morducai,
Think, “Clan of the Cave Bear”. Myth and lore. And very long reading.
C.Jimison
March 22nd, 2009 at 2:59 am
P.S- I really hope that the dvd for this will be an extended version, Peter Jackson style, with Delted scenes and all.
I am so getting a battlestar Galactica tattoo but i haven’t decided which one i want yet, Any suggestions????
March 22nd, 2009 at 3:38 am
The Season 4 DVD will have extended versions of at least three episodes, including about 20 extra minutes for the finale.
March 22nd, 2009 at 3:45 am
What is really interesting about the ending is that it does not in any way take away from the original series, or the upcoming movie based on it. Since all this has happened before and will happen again, the exact same thing, or very similar thing, could happen in 10,000 years to another group of humans. So, the series can live on for eternity in different forms, and all exist within the same overall story.
“The faces may change, but the names are the same” is a paraphrase of something someone once said about war dead. Well, in BSG, that may be true for each instance of the grander result and plan. Once Starbuck was a man… and then a woman… maybe next time a man again.
March 22nd, 2009 at 3:46 am
I’m not sure exactly how I feel. Not a bad ending. I was really thinking it really was going to be a suicide mission, even somehow taking out the colony.
It really does me that they went with the idea of Kobolese “humans” and Earth humans being anything alike, let alone being able to interbreed. Even with the deus ex machina schtick. COME ON, we’d be LESS likely to be able to mate with aliens than we would be able to mate with asparaguses! Seriously.
@centurion005 Good catch on the different galaxy thing. I heard him say about a million light years, but didn’t think about it again.
One other thing. In the last scene before Galactica jumped away from the fleet, the parting shot, I think. The stars in the background looked exactly like Orion’s belt; I think there may even have been the Orion nebula. Did anyone else notice or think that?
March 22nd, 2009 at 3:58 am
In the middle of the fight Anders said “lay off the ACS you betcha Gaylen. Open your mind and hear what your heart wants to deny. End of Line.”
I think that he is telling Gaylen to stop lying to himself and admit that he really did love Calli.
Also, it is possible that the Cylon Centurians going off on their own and the Colonials and skinjobs staying on earth is a reflection of the 12 tribes & 13 Tribe of Cylons in the aftermath of Kobol. All of this has happened before and will happen again indeed.
I would also like to point out that there was a plethora of commercials precisely because it was the finale and there would be a large audience garaunteed. Larger audience = more $$ for each commercial aired. More commercials = more $$$ for Sci-Fi which means more money to spend on good shows and ensure future productions.
March 22nd, 2009 at 4:23 am
I feel so empty and sad now that the show is over. What a finale though. The president finally dying like that was really hard to take… I was crying; it’s funny, really, considering she should have died years ago. They found their new home. I just wish they wouldn’t have discarded all their technology like that… and finally, I couldn’t believe Starbuck actually was an angel although it all makes sense now!
March 22nd, 2009 at 4:25 am
Hey guys! I’m delurking just this once. Thanks for the great website, it’s always been a great place to come read everyone’s thoughts on the episode and watch Matt and Nat.
My impression of the last episode, well it’s kind of hard to live up to all our expectations. It was good, but I wouldn’t call it great. Like others have said, the montage at the end was a bit cheesy. Could have been a lot worse though!
I was left wishing for one thing. No final scene between the two bestest buddies in the universe?! Saul and Bill just went their seperate ways? I’ll chalk it up to time constraints and hope it’s on some extended edition or something.
Thanks for everything guys. It’s been a fun ride and even though the final episode didn’t offer some religious experience via television, the overall series will definitely be remembered with fond memories by myself.
March 22nd, 2009 at 4:41 am
Ah, Battlestar, how I will definitely miss you.
This episode had me hooked the whole time!! Was interesting that they decided not to show the credits for the final run through, and that they also didn’t show the final count of survivors at the very end. I would have liked to have a solid figure as a comparison of where they started to where they ended up. Would have been a nice touch and a small piece of closure as well. Perhaps having Roslin, or Lee, or President Lampkin writing on the whiteboard before sending it to the sun.
So many question, so few answers, but…like Baltar said, does it really matter what we believe? RDM can be our higher power, guiding things along. All hail RDM!!
What I loved about this episode was that it gave us both the ‘battle’ of battlestar, but it gave us some very lovely characters as well. I will admit to being very surprised by how many of our beloved characters didn’t make it to the last moments of the show. Roslin obviously was destined to die, so that wasn’t shocking, but, losing Sam and Kara was extremely sad. I kept expecting something miraculous for Sam. When the other four put their hands in the goo, I really expected him to awaken properly. If they were all conected to one another, and knew everything about one another for those moments…I wonder if it would have been possible. If after completeing the upload of information, Sam could have pulled through. Hmmm…Galen…pulling your hand out may well have pulled the plug a little too early.
Of course, Galen killing Tory means that I forgive him completely. What a waste of a character. I never did understand her motivations. Truly wish there had been a little more character development for Tory. Hell, even a flashback in D1 & 2 would have been nice. Maybe even showing her past relationship with Galen in the previous cycle. perhaps with Galen married, and Tory ‘accidentally’ killing the woman so she could be with Tyrol. All of this has happened before… Well, at least in my mind, that’s how I shall explain it.
I did have to wonder though, when Caprica and Baltar walk into the CIC with Hera, and look up to see the final five backlit with white lights…what exactly were Tigh, Tyrol, Tory and Ellen doing up there, besides setting up a beautiful character shot? The CIC is falling to pieces, and they’re…standing placidly. Sure. Okay. Beautiful tie in with the vision, though. *shrugs*
A few plot points I loved…
* Adama in the hall passing the admiral pins to …pan up…Hoshi!! Awesome!! Did not expect that for a second. That’s quite a jump in rank there. Lieutenant to Admiral in sixty seconds. Touching moment when he gave them back. (Heh, who else loved seeing the boys lying in the grass, beautiful).
* Cottle getting teary when Roslin thanks him, and he kisses her hand. Beautiful. “Go grunt and smoke a cigar…” Muhahaha.
A few plot points I was a little confused with…
* President Lampkin…did I miss the elections?
* Athena killing Boomer…’thanks for saving my daughter…BLAM!’
Now, RDM may not want to tell us exactly what Kara Thrace may or may not be, but damn is it fun to speculate. So, she’s not a head character, which we really really knew. She’s interacted with everyone and their little dogs too. So…if Baltar is RIGHT about his head characters being ‘angels’ (and damned if he hasn’t been right about damn near everything else), then we can almost assume that Kara is something else entirely, which RDM has also said is true.
Back in Someone to Watch Over Me, we see Kara’s father for the first time. He’s a pianist, a smoker, a drinker. He’s interacted with Kara on a physical level, but left no evidence of his existance behind. So…if the pianist is meant to be her father, which RDM confirmed in his podcast for that episode…does that mean that Kara’s father also had a destiny? That his destiny was to father Kara, and teach her ‘All Along the Watchtower’. We know from Daybreak II that once Kara had completed her mission, fulfilled her destiny, she vanished. Kara’s father vanishes one day, and she never sees him again. Did he vanish like Kara vanished? Did he fulfill his destiny? Did he tell Socrata Thrace that Kara was special? That Kara needed to be strong to complete her destiny?
If this is true, is that perhaps why Dreilide Thrace appears once more to Kara in the form that (we assume) he first arrived with? If perhaps Dreilide’s destiny was JUST to ensure he had a child, and that she had the ‘map’ to ‘Earth’, and then he disappeared, was he actually another angel the ENTIRE time? Did an angel father a mortal child (seeing as we know from Baltar’s tests that Kara’s body was 100% human).
Throwing Dreilide into the series this late in the game definitely brought up a lost of question. RDM has specifically stated that he was NOT the cylon Daniel. The other twelve were revealed, so we can assume that Kara is NOT a cybrid, which unfortunately shatters my original theory all to all. So, if Dreilide was a head character and the HC’s=angels…can we then believe that he was an angel all along? Interesting, no?
Kara Thrace and her special destiny – “Kara Thrace will lead the human race to its end. She is the herald of the apocalypse, she is the harbinger of death. They must not follow her.”
* someone above mentioned Kara’s crash-landing on old-earth being misinterpreted as an attack, which prompted the nuclear war in the previous cycle. ‘Herald of the apocolypse’ certainly gives a bit of oomph to that theory. Her idea to destroy the Hub was also mentioned as being prophesied as ‘the harbinger of death’.
* ‘Thrace will lead the humans race to its end’…’And then they will join in the promised land, gathered on the wings of an angel, not an end but a beginning…’ Who ever said that the end had to be a bad thing? She lead them to earth, to the end of their journey. ‘They’ must not follow her…I think it implies that the Cylons must not follow her. I don’t think the ‘they’ in question was about humans, and I’ve had that theory since I first saw Razor.
* If the Cylons wanted to stay Cylons, able to connect with computers and datastreams etc. etc. then following Kara is a very bad thing indeed. But for the rebel cylons who wanted peace, and who wanted to become truly human, then following her led to their deaths in a sense. Their abilities were bred out, and with each generation they lost the ability to project as Hera can, and to interpret datastream stuff. So, I think that is what the prophecy meant. Following Kara would lead to the end of Cylons and their abilities. Not necessairly and end, but a beginning.
I’m disappointed by the lack of Leoben in the episode. Considering the extents he went to in order to mind-frak Kara in S1 Flesh and Bones and S3, not to mention the massive part he played in Maelstrom, and on the Dedalus, and on old-earth…why the hell was he just an after thought? He had no role to play, and that was extremely disappointing. I want to know why Leoben appeared to Kara in Maelstrom, and who he was if he wasn’t really Leoben. Could he have been another Angel? What was with Leoben’s reaction to Kara’s burnt up body on old-earth? What did it mean for him to be so very wrong, and what exactly was he wrong about? He backed away in fear from her…why?
Loved Kara’s farewell to Sam. Very touching. I really wish they hadn’t killed him. *sighs* ‘See you on the other side’. Let’s hope.
Anyway, the episode was great. I thought it was very satisfying, and I spent the last twenty or so minutes crying my eyes out. Very sad, very touching moments. Roslin’s death was great. I really expected Adama to fly the Raptor into the face of the cliff though. Glad he didn’t. When he was eulagising Roslin, I almost expected Kara to just pop in beside him, even if only as a silent visitor. I did like their farewell though, and the peck to the nose/lips was very cute. (If only I could stop my father from doing that…)
You kind of have to feel a little sorry for Lee. It was the perfect set-up to get the two of them back together. Dee’s been dead for weeks and wasn’t even mentioned twice after she shot herself (most convenient death in the history of BSG). Sam’s flown off into the sunset…literally. I almost expected Lee to answer the ‘what do you wanna do now’ question with a marriage proposal for Kara. Was good to see that my prediction of a smchoopy Lee/Kara ending was unsubstantiated. They resolved their issues, and they left their relationship at a place where Lee could move on. I just didn’t see it coming. Poor guy lost his dad, is almost-step-mother and his not-quite-girlfriend in one fell swoop. I think Lee started the Tibetan Monks on his journey into those mountains.
Very glad they didn’t kill Helo or Athena or Hera. When Helo was shot I really thought it was all over for him. I’m wondering if that was the point that Tammoh changed the writers minds on when it could have gone either way. Nice to see a full circle with Tamoh limping after a leg wound on a planet. S1 anyone? All of this has – oh forget it.
Speaking of ‘all of this has happened before’, did anyone else get that exact feeling when Tigh bribes Cavil with resurrection technology? ‘We’ll give you resurrection if you stop the war and leave us alone’. Uh…does that not seem familiar Tigh? Didn’t work so well last time, what makes you think it will this time? Although it’s curious that it’s Tigh who offers it up when Cavil is threatening Hera. Is it becuase of his own loss of Liam that makes him want so much to save Hera? Or because he believes that Hera is the beginning of things to come? Hmmm
Cavil killing himself…okay, sure. Why not? Hitler did that too…But why couldn’t Adama have been the one to shoot him? Or one of the F5? Or, better yet, one of the free centurions, seeing as Cavil was bent on revenge for their sakes, supposedly. *sighs*
I will admit that I thought Caprica and Baltar’s destiny was a little weak. Ensuring that Hera came through the cycle alive. In the words of Baltar “that’s it?!” Although, Baltar’s speech in the CIC was very nice. You could see that he genuinely believed what he was
saying, which is something that I haven’t been able to believe in previous episodes. Seeing his genuine spiritual journey, and growth was lovely. “I’m proud of you Gauis.” So say we all.
Caprica’s journey has been extraordinary. From where she and Gauis started to where they are now is such a change. Choosing to go Galactica with Athena in Downloaded gave her a very different character arch. “Because in the scheme of things, we are as we do. She acts like one of ‘em, thinks like them… she is one of them.” (#6 ‘Flesh and Bones’ re: Sharon/Athena)
As for the head characters who pop up 150,000 years later…are they there to guide the next guardians of humanity? If the F5 saw them on old-Earth, and Caprica and Baltar saw them on the Colonies…who will be the new chosen ones? And why oh why couldn’t they have had Starbuck in that final scene with them?
Beautiful episode, and a show that I will definitely miss. Thanks RDM for giving us such a wonderful universe to play in, and thanks to Matt + Nat for all the hard work you put into your casts. You guys are awesome, and I hope to see a Capricast perhaps.
K.
March 22nd, 2009 at 4:42 am
Okay, here it is, my full on review of the final “Battlestar Galactica”, “Daybreak, Part 2″. Granted, I haven’t done any reviews prior to this, but better to save my point of view for the final.
As I had stated before in a previous comment for the BSGcasts, the definition of the word “Daybreak” was simple “dawn” (according to Websters Online). And we have a definitive answer as to its meaning and how it applies to the show. Galactica reached Earth in a period of time, which is often described as “the dawn of man” on Earth. Kinda nifty of Ron, TBH.
For the story, and as a story writer, this episode made sense and, I feel that it served as the logical conclusion of what has been one of the most intelligent science fiction shows and true humanistic dramas ever created in the first half of the 21st century. The story is a balance of “Galactica’s last hurrah”, or in other words the final mission, and humanity finally reaching Earth (our Earth). And it’s really satisfying. It had its intense moments and final character developments that made this a truly worthy episode on a story standpoint. Even with the ending, it is good. Each character got their own wrap up, which was excellent. Granted, there are some details that bug me (which I’ll mention later), but I’m willing to let it slide.
I will admit that there are details I can’t help but find interesting. For one, Roslin sleeping with a former student, especially for a first date. I couldn’t help but wonder if this was RDM’s ode to Van Halen’s “Hot for Teacher”. Though many may see it out of character of her, you would have to remind yourself that you probably would have thought she wouldn’t sleep with a married man, to which you would have been wrong after discovering she was knockin’ boots with Adar. So, this scenario doesn’t seem at all out of character.
To be honest, really didn’t like the Adama/Getting a new job/polygraph flashbacks were really necessary or essential to Adama and his overall story. But I’m willing to overlook that.
In “Daybreak, Part 1″, Athena believed it was too late to rescue Hera. Helo said, “You’re wrong.” And he was right. How many times have we seen some of Helo’s actions that we are left questioning if he made the right choice or a big mistake? A lot. Finally, seeing one that we KNOW was right was definitely worth it.
The assault on the Cylon Colony was, no doubt, one of the best moments in the show, as equal to such excellent battle moments such as the assault on the Cylon Mining Refinery in “Hand of God” and The Rescue of the Colonials from New Caprica in “Exodus, Part 2″. Seriously, other than seeing D’anna waking up in bed with Baltar and Caprica, how often do you ever get to see ANY kind of Cylon on Cylon action? (And yes, I’m joking) And seeing the new school and old school Centurions battling out was pretty cool.
Honestly, I forgot about what Tory did to Cally, not because it wasn’t interesting or anything. It’s just that moment was like a line from a deleted scene I have to quote. In a deleted scene for “Razor”, while under gunfire by the Old Centurions, Starbuck talks about the shooting down of the Olympic Carrier. It flashes back to a scene where Starbuck and Apollo are in the Pilot’s ready room, watching the gun camera footage, over and over again, because of Lee’s guilt. Starbuck’s line pretty much summed up why I forgot about what Tory did to Cally: “It was 12 hours ago, it’s ancient history.” Needless to say, we finally got to see Tyrol’s reaction. And we’re to believe that these two characters, in their forgotten background, were knocking boots with plans on making it a lifelong thing? But then again, what Tory did to Tyrol fits the classic line, “You always hurt the ones you love.”
The moment I was the most scared throughout the episode was after Galactica completed her final jump. When she began twisting and breaking apart, I though she was going to rip completely apart and explode. Seriously, I knew she was going to take some sort of damage from attacking the colony, but I honestly didn’t expect her to, quoting Tigh here, “break her back.” But the reveal the Earth, our Earth, I actually said, “I KNEW IT! I KNEW THAT WASN’T OUR EARTH!” I definitely liked the character wrap ups and how each one got their own. And I found the most touching thing was that the last lines shared between Starbuck and Adama actually happened to be the very first lines they had together in the Mini-Series. For those who forgot what those lines were, here they are: “What do you hear, Starbuck?” “Nothing but the rain.” “Grab your gun and bring the cat in.” It was a perfect circle for them. Seeing Gaius Baltar and Caprica back together again was also a perfect circle, even more so with the fact that Baltar re-embraced his heritage as a farmer (which is a circle within a circle, though we weren’t aware of it until Season 3). Seeing Helo, Athena and Hera together as a happy family was great. I think maybe Athena forgave Helo for frakking Boomer in “Someone to Watch Over Me”. That’s love for you, eh? And I actually began to cry not at the death of Roslin, but the death of Galactica and the ships of the Colonial Fleet. Unlike the U.S.S. Enterprise, any letter of the alphabet, the Galactica was more than just some cool and old ship that was just the setting of some of the stories. She was just as much a character who had an arch and who evolved just like Adama who commanded her and the crew that worked in her. Seeing the Galactica flying into the sun for her demise made me cry and even now, I feeling like I’m mourning the death of someone I knew. I haven’t cried as hard as I have recently about any kind of fiction character since reading a not-so-well known novel called “Vivienne” by Richard Hoyt. But at least her end was beautiful, if not as peaceful as Roslin’s death.
Roslin’s death wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be. It wasn’t so drawn out as it was in the visions she had in “The Hub”, which is great. When Adama picked her up and took her to the Raptor, I thought, “Oh my god! He is going to take her and they’re going to fly off into space and die together alone.” (it made sense to me that he was the kind of guy who would). But, it turned out as I was wrong. To be honest, I felt just having the show end with Adama sitting on the hillside overlooking the land with Roslin’s grave behind him would have been good enough of an ending, just to leave it there. But when we jump 150,000 to modern day New York. Seeing RDM in that scene was great. And hearing Jimi Hendrix’s rendering of “All Along the Watchtower” was also great. But the ending in Modern New York with Head Caprica and Head Baltar, with the sound of Hendrix’s version of “All Along the Watchtower” left me with the mood of a downer ending as opposed to the happy ending feeling I had with that final scene of Adama. Thanks for doing that, Mr. Moore. You’ve definitely harken back to the “science fiction ending with a moral” stories of the past. Best to leave open the possibility that we may be making the same mistakes our Colonial ancestors did… And that the one person who thinks we may not make the same mistake, starting another cycle, happens to be the one who had been toying around with Baltar for four years.
Now, here are the things that bugged me:
1. Now, I know we were not to take things too literal when it came to Pythia and her prophecy. However, no matter how cryptic they were, they were accurate. And from what Elosha explained when Roslin told her about her vision in “Hand of God”, Elosha stated that, according to Pythia, the Dying Leader would not live to see the promised land. That means that Roslin should have died before even getting a chance to set foot on our Earth. But, I’m willing to slide.
2. I am rather disappointed with Boomer’s end. Seriously, for someone like her to change her mind again, I was at least hoping for her trying to redeem herself for the wrong choices she’s made in the past (like maybe stepping in front of a bullet meant for Hera, Helo or Athena, or something like that). But to change her mind, hand of Hera and then Athena just killing her… I just feel that’s not fair, especially for Boomer who has gone through so much more pain and struggle than Athena.
Final thoughts:
Well, due to a lot of information from Season 4.5, I’ve had to abandon or heavily rework some of my story ideas for my machinima comic book fan fiction series I’ve been working on. Especially with the “Angel” Six and “Angel” Baltar, which I had hoped were being controlled by the Beings of Light. Since Starbuck’s resurrection, what she was and her disappearance, we still do not know what was going on with her. But it still hasn’t left out the possibility that the Beings of Light were involved. In fact, it opens the possibility that the Beings of Light are all knowing as angels and may work for a higher power they believe in. But, like real life, we’ll never get all the answers, just as I expected.
If i had to rate this episode, this would be a 10 out of 10. The over all series, a perfect 10. Now, a lot of people may disagree with my rating, saying about how Season 3 and Season 4 “ruined” the show because of its no-Cylon, character angst episodes or “Nicky was retconned” or some other excuse. But let me tell you one thing: The show wasn’t about fighting Cylons every week. To quote what Ron Moore written on the bulletin board in the writer’s office when they were trying to figure out the story for this episode: “It’s about the characters, stupid!” It’s about their journey. Their ups and downs. Their good times and bad times. They’re fighting with the enemy and fighting themselves. This show deserves a whole wing in a museum if there ever is one about TV shows. I feel its earned such a place of high regard.
When it comes to the end, I can’t help but think about the beginning. When I first saw an episode of “Battlestar Galactica”, it was during the Fall of 2005. I had been opposed to watching “Battlestar Galactica” and the Sci-Fi Channel because I was a fan of “Farscape” before that, and somehow, in my misinterpretation of Bonnie Hammer’s lies, I blamed “Battlestar Galactica” for the cancellation of “Farscape” because Bonnie Hammer was using money for the show which could have paid for a fifth season (this was my mentality at that time). The first episode I saw was Season 2’s “Scattered”, a rerun. I had no idea about any of the show. But I became hooked right after watching that one episode. That following weekend, I went to a Wal-Mart and purchased the Season 1 box set. It took me the whole weekend to watch the mini-series and the whole first season. After that, I would await watching each episode, wondering where it would lead the viewers next. And now… Now, I’m looking forward to “The Plan”. I’m willing to give “Caprica” a shot, though I don’t know if it will be as good as our beloved “Battlestar Galactica”. I’ll keep wearing my official Galactica Dog Tags of my favorite character, Athena (granted, I’m a guy, but I could relate to her struggle to fit in with the crew of Galactica, since I myself felt much like an outcast back when I was in high school). I will get to work on the papercraft model of Galactica I downloaded. And I will continue to get my machinima comic book fan fiction series, titled “Battlestar Galactica: Odyssey”, off the ground, even if it means having to pay money to some high quality Simmaker to get the Sims I need to start work on it.
I believe that though the series is over, this isn’t truly the end of Galactica. I feel we, the fans, will continue to carry it in our hearts and minds for years to come, much like “Star Trek” fans have. I still hope that, maybe five years from now, if I’m at a convention, I’ll run into someone wearing a Viper pilot suit or Uniform Blues. I hope that since the show is over, that fan-based productions of all kinds will start to be made and released, especially fans films (seriously, all the fan films I’ve seen are in relation to the Videomaker contest, were either applicants sent to the contest or were made for being featured in the contest, but missed the deadline fro one reason or another). And most of all, I hope that we will still talk about “Battlestar Galactica”, even when “Caprica” is on the air (Hey Matt and Nat. I’ve got an idea. Maybe you can do casts of the Mini-Series and Season 1 episodes of Galactica as an occasional thing. Just a thought, of course).
Thank you all for your time and patience. So say we all. SO SAY WE ALL. SO SAY WE ALL! So say we all.
March 22nd, 2009 at 5:01 am
I don’t think it would be too far fetched to imagine that Starbuck’s father was… whatever she was… an angel… a messenger… a demon… or whatever RDM most considers her. Perhaps it is why her mother believed she was destined for something great. She always had her suspicions too. Though, her death may have also been necessary to take her our of her human form. Once she died, she was recreated by God, along with her Viper, and brought back as the herald of the apocalypse; the harbinger of death.
However, there is another potential answer to what she is, and even what hear head-father was:
They were simply divine avatars who represented the essence of the humans who carried their souls. In other words, Starbuck at the end was not the Starbuck who died in Maelstrom. As the body dies, it releases whatever energy is contained within it. Since our bodies operate on electric current –and anyone who has taken a class in electrical systems knows that energy never stops, it just travels past the source and into infinity– some have surmised that this is our soul leaving our bodies. We do not know whether consciousness remains within that energy, but since data can be transported through the air, then it stands to reason that our “souls” could be transported with our consciousness.
In that regard, Starbuck’s death could have been God’s plan to transplant her soul/energy into the divine avatar I mentioned. It is why Starbuck didn’t feel like herself. Her consciousness remained but she felt detached from her body, because she was already dead, and on some level knew it. That is why she also knew that she was not going to be staying on new Earth. She could feel that the avatar was about to detach itself from her consciousness. And so, when Starbuck disappeared, based on my theory, her soul was re-released in that instance, on new Earth. Which would mean that Starbuck literally died on both old and new Earth.
March 22nd, 2009 at 5:23 am
Sparky said above: Its an Intelligent Design story
I agree.
The Colonial gods are shown to be false. The Cylon god is the only one to be shown as real in the end. The only “god” that could be described as an “IT” (what head Baltar said at the end) is an “Eschaton” like concept, a super intelligent, super advanced/evolved machine. Therefore the Cyclon god = The Eschaton. So its the Eschaton in the background pulling the strings for mankind’s ultimate good.
Funny thing is, The Eschaton in the book “Singularity Sky” spread mankind out over the stars to both keep mankind under control and to ensure their survival. Seems like the same thing happening here with the original colonial tribes and now with the remnants on Earth. Thus, “This has all happened before and will all happen again” is a mechanism the Eschaton uses over and over to manage the human population. Kind of like a big zoo really, with The Eschaton as the Zoo Keeper.
March 22nd, 2009 at 6:01 am
Quick question…
If ‘All Along the Watchtower’ was a road map to Earth 2.0 and not the way to the 13th Colony’s Earth…what the frak does it have to do with the F5? Why would they hear that song? Anders says that he played it on Earth 4,000 ago, so…if the notes equal co-ordinates, why would that version of earth beplaying the co-ords to the next cycle of Earth?
Hmmmm…
March 22nd, 2009 at 6:04 am
Starbuck is a pigeon.
March 22nd, 2009 at 7:13 am
Oioi, and what about all the wounded from the battle? No way they could survive on the planet, with no technology etc, and everyone shown was all limbed and healthy. So…. did they just decide to give them a grand funeral in the sun, even if they could have been saved easily!? Hmmms.
March 22nd, 2009 at 7:57 am
I just resolved something for myself that I thought might have been bugging other people. How could Earth I and Earth II share the same star patterns as seen on the map found on Kobol? Well, constellations are really just patterns that we pick out the the vastness of the heavens. It would be pretty easy to find those same patterns made of 10-20 stars out of the thousands in the sky, even if it were a different sky, since they’re not preexisting anyway. Many societies on our Earth have created completely different constellations out of the same stars because they come out of our own imagination, not out of the stars themselves. If the humans going to Earth II were looking for something familiar, they could easily recreate those constellations out of the stars surrounding Earth II.
Second thought. I don’t think the pigeon is Starbuck. Rather, I think that the scene with the pigeon is saying that you are fulfilling fate even when you think you are not. Kara spent a whole season trying to understand who she was and what her destiny was. In the end, she was on the journey anyway, and she ended up fulfilling her destiny whether she understood it or not. The same with the opera house, the same with Laura’s Pithian prophecy. In most stories, the point of uncovering prophecy is to try to change the future or to avoid disaster. Not so here. Fate continues on its course not matter what we do, as with Lee and the pigeon. Lee could try to chase it out of his house, but it left when it was ready.
March 22nd, 2009 at 8:01 am
Hey quick question that I have not seen the answer to so far. How long do the Cylon models last for? Did they live for thousands of years or did they kill themselves when the colonials finally died? Maybe they are still alive 150,000 years after they arrived. Any thoughts? Thanks
March 22nd, 2009 at 8:13 am
Ok I dont see the constellation Orion people are refering to. Which scene? Id like to see it!
March 22nd, 2009 at 10:00 am
Thinking about all that’s gone on, I reviewed the hybrid’s utterances from the third season onward to see what could be drawn out of it that makes sense after the ending (all quotes taken from battlestar wiki http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Hybrid_utterances):
There is a lot of fire imagery in relation to God, “(Grasping Baltar) Intelligence. A mind that burns like a fire,” “But you are a spark of God’s fire,” and “Intruders swarm like flame, like the whirlwind; Hopes soaring to slaughter all their best against our hulls.” So, God is the fire…and all the intelligent beings are just a small spark of God. As well, it also seems that the hybrid is aware of the attack on the colony as early as Faith.
“It is not much consolation that society will pick up the bits, leaving us at eight modern where punishment, rather than interdiction, is paramount.” This to me suggests that the cycle of destruction and rebirth is not in God’s plan.
“The city devours the land, the people devour the city…” This relates directly to what Lee said when they arrived on New Earth, that their current way of existence consumes them and there needs to be a better way.
“All these things at once and many more, not because it wishes harm, because it likes violent vibrations to change constantly.” Does this suggest that God is trying to change us from our violent ways? If so, it seems that death and rebirth is the only way that can kick us out of our current cycle of violence.
“The children of the one reborn shall find their own country.” When I originally read that, I thought it was referring to the rebel cylons…but now I think it’s referring to the colonials finding New Earth.
“Contact is inevitable, leading to information bleed.” I think this is referring to Hera and the information bleed is her DNA, which eventually trickles down to present day humanity.
The first hybrid, “And then, they [the rebel cylons] will join at the promised land, gathered on the wings of an angel. Not an end, but a beginning.” So either the angel is Kara Thrace or Galactica herself? And all the references to the end of times by Head Six, really turns out to be the end of the cycle (kind of).
Anders hybrid, “A closed system lacks the ability to renew itself knowledge alone is a poor primer…” The cycle would be a closed system, and needs some type of external assistance (God) to renew itself.
He also said, “Find the perfect world for the end of Kara Thrace.” Despite the shock of Kara disappearing, finding New Earth always meant the end of Kara…so sad!
Well, that’s all I can think of. =P
March 22nd, 2009 at 10:24 am
Good Grief! Did you guys watch the show and listen to the frakking dialog?
The Earth story is simple and straightforward. All this time-warping blackhole crap is frakking insanity. Sometimes I question the ability of folks to use simple rational thought.
It is now 100% clear…
The BSG story took place 150,000 years ago.
They landed on a planet that Kobol-cylons called “Earth”. It had been destroyed by a nuke conflict.
That planet was NOT our planet in any way shape or form.
We NEVER saw our continents.
We never EVER saw ANY continents of that planet.
It was NOT our planet. At all.
Then, at the end of the series, they get the coords to OUR planet. This planet we’re on.
There are early Homo sapiens on it.
It’s our Earth. NOT THE ONE THAT WAS NUKED in the series.
And Adama calls it “Earth” in honor of the quest they’d held for so long.
It is OUR earth, 150,000 years ago.
NO TIME TRAVEL
NO BLACK HOLE tricks.
It’s in the script, in black and white.
Seriously, if people can’t get the obvious points like this from what’s handed to them in writing, then all the other speculation about the truly curious parts of the series is going to be a joke.
March 22nd, 2009 at 10:52 am
Ron Moore was wrong. He said that the finale wouldn’t turn out like anyone expected, but I always expected the Colonials and the Cylons to finally land on our Earth and become our ancestors.
Finally, was it it me, or did some of those flashbacks seem to have no purpose at all? The Roslin and Adama flashbacks didn’t tell us anything we didn’t already know about those characters; the whole thing with Roslin’s family dying and her sleeping with a former student before deciding to join Adar’s campaign didn’t really connect to any of the things she did in this story, it was just exposition without much of a point. The Lee/Kara flashback’s entire point seemed to be wrapped up in the scene with the pigeon, it’s flying away symbolizing Kara’s vanishing into thin air. Interesting, I suppose, but it could have been completely excised without hurting the story in the slightest. The only flashback that had any redeeming value was Baltar’s. In all, the flashbacks felt like something that was tacked on late in the game when RDM and co. found out they were going to get three hours instead of two.
However, I’m fairly pleased with the way everything turned out. There was no way for the finale to satisfy everyone, of course, but Ron Moore told the story he wanted to tell and it was quite an entertaining ride.
March 22nd, 2009 at 11:03 am
@Kattie – Well, Ron Moore did say that when it came to the rendering of “All Along the Watchtower”, it was meant to be something that “tapped into the same place that Bob Dylan and Jimi Hendrix did when they did their renderings of the song.” And since Sam was apparently a musician, it would make sense he also tapped that same place for his rendering.
But to answer the question, “What does it have to do with the Final Five?” Well, as I suggested before, maybe it was meant solely as a Siren Song by the Beings of Light (or the Angels, depending on what you believe or want to call them). It was meant to manipulate events, to bring together certain people and, as we discovered, it was meant as the coordinates to Earth. Whatever higher power/higher being/higher intelligence was using the song to make things happen. It’s doesn’t have to only do solely with the Final Five. It has to do with everything.
March 22nd, 2009 at 11:07 am
Wow! what a series!! The perspective that I viewed the story line from is that of a Cylon. The Holy Text that Laura followed was actually written for the Cylons. It is no coincidence that everyone arrives at a planet that has a shrine to the “Final Five”. That planet was only meaningful to Cylons. It offered nothing to humans. Starbuck’s viper was reborn after she went through the black hole and ended up on “Cylon Earth” where the final five Cylons all have flashbacks. Again, a planet that really had nothing to do with humans, but was part of the resurrection of the Cylons. Starbuck as the “Angel of Death” did bring the Cylons to their death, just as predicted, by destroying their resurrection ship. It was only the Cylons that referred to Starbuck as the “Angel”. The series has always been from the Cylon perspective and Ron Moore did a good job of showing that.
Ron Moore’s did a fantastic job of combing mythology and religion and finding the common thread between the two and within the concepts of many theological branches. Most notably, in the final episodes, is that of Scientology, where “Aliens” in the guise of humans from Caprica, arrived 150,000 years ago and advanced our society. Although, the human species that they found on earth could reproduce, it is the knowledge that Caprica humans and Cylons bring regarding religion and mythology that shapes our ancestors into what is now our concept of resurrection. A combination of life continues through our genetics, as well as our own rebirth through religious belief.
Starbuck, the angel, reappears as a pigeon to Lee. Watching the pigeon fly you can hear Lee think “no one flies like “Starbuck” as she weaves her way through the window opening.
Lee “Apollo” the Greek messenger God, goes on to tell the story, creating mythology of “Zeus” Adama coming from the sky and the god of them all.
Laura ‘the dying leader” fulfills her role only when her task of getting them to earth is complete. It is then that she can truly die.
Baltar, I believe, was one of the Lords of Kobal. He has always been able to project like a Cylon, but was not a Cylon. Many of his unexplainable actions, only benefitted the Cylons. He was never for the benefit of humans.
So, 150,000 years ago, our destiny was changed. And when the Cylons return again, we will all go through this one more time.
Thank you for a great webcast and forum. it has been a pleasure.
Warm regards,
Tim “Ima Cylon” McDowell
March 22nd, 2009 at 11:54 am
Starbuck is a pigeon? could be or could not. “You decide” said RDM!
March 22nd, 2009 at 11:59 am
Having had time to think about the end a little more, It seems pretty firm that Starbuck, like “Head” Baltar and “Head” Caprica Six was an angel, and this plays out really nicely with the whole greek mythology angle that had been a corner stone of the series (the names of the colonies etc…) that the god or gods had been guiding and interfering in what had been going on all along, hence the eye of jupiter stuff and so on. Kara’s final vanishing act is kind of the “my work here is done” thing and so she leaves.
Finally with Earth, I thought they tried to make it pretty clear at the end that the Earth that they finally settle on is “our Earth” at the present day, with a spooky “we’re all part cylon” message, that Hera was the missing link. No need for parallel universes or event horizons “frakking up” the laws of physics or anything…
But let’s be honest as far as endings go, it was a tear jerker and well worth the wait.
Thanks guys
March 22nd, 2009 at 12:01 pm
Regarding the constellations:
In real life, there is no place on New Earth (our earth) where all of those constellations can actually be seen simultaneously in the sky, as they were in the Tomb of Athena. I think Moore even admits this in the podcast in that old episode. And that “map” wasn’t supposed to lead them to the New Earth, it led them to Cylon Earth, where (apparently) such a thing really is possible.
So the questions regarding how the constellations matched both Cylon Earth and New Earth are moot: they didn’t match. They only matched Cylon Earth, which was the only Earth that the Kobollians knew of.
Now Kara…. If only they’d answered the questions about her. They built up a great mystery (special destiny, resurrected, came back with a new viper, found her dead body), but dropped the ball. It’s like they created a great whodunnit without ever answering at the end “who did it”. BSG wasn’t a strongly mystery-driven show until season 3, and most of those mysteries have very unsatisfying answers. They should never have kept building them up if they had no intention of coming up with an intelligent answers (”God did it” not counting as one).
That’s a big tarnish on the show that will always irk me when I rewatch it, but BSG as a whole was still a great show, and this was a great episode.
March 22nd, 2009 at 12:10 pm
The ramming of the colony by the galactica reminds me of the Dadaleius attack from the Robotech/Macross series. The SDF-1 (a space ship with the last of humanity trying to escape pursuit – sound familiar?) uses one of it’s aircraft carrier arms (galactica is an aircraft carrier in space) to break through the hull of the enemy ships. The front would then open up to let mecha in and shoot missiles. I had a post before that I thing Robotech/Macross was a bridge between TOS and the new series – each building and improving on the other.
In the last battle the SDF-1 over loads its fold system (FTL system in galactica world) to cause a large explosion and destroy the enemy fleet. I though for sure we would see this on BSG with Galactica jumping from the colony and causing significant damage like Boomer causes by jumping too close to the ship.
Also I think the pigeon is starbuck. If you look closely you can see her trademark winged tattoo on the side of the pigeon – although that may just have been the pigeon’s actual wing.
March 22nd, 2009 at 12:21 pm
it’s not earth. adama and roslin it wasnt earth, they just called it that because they were looking for a planet called earth. it has nothing to do whit cylon earth or the 13 colonies. just a little planet whit some cratures whit DNA thats looks like humans DNA, just like Cactus in mexico and australia, there not related just looking alike.
March 22nd, 2009 at 12:31 pm
Thanks Centurion005 – I am glad you agree with me on Knocking on Heaven’s Door makes a lot of sense.
March 22nd, 2009 at 12:46 pm
hey all
i was very satisfied with the conclusion. it tied up MOST everything. it also combined TOS and this series together. here are some of the answers i got.
Earth- the Cylon earth was not our earth. earth was just a name or a state of mind. Earth meant HOME. home for cylon and human.
Time Line- TOS opening was the ending of this series. it made sense. to quote Star Wars (sorry) their story was A LONG LONG TIME AGO IN A GALAXY FAR FAR AWAY. we look at this story as our story today. all of this happened in the past and was meant to explain where we came from.
the colonials passed down what was good about their civilization. thus explaining out meteoric jump our human cultures. i liked the 150,000 year thing. that is why there is no physical record of them, just oral folklore and some ancient gliffs throughout the planet.
Hera being (EVE)- colonials and cylons were two different species. compatible biologically but not socially. does that mean that colonials and cylons died out? no. 38,000 colonials and a good population of cylons didn’t die out, they just interbred together and with the people already here. Hera just happened to be the first and only skeleton found to date. she was the first hybrid but not the only hybrid. that is why she is important.
her destiny was to be the catalyst to earth being found and to be found by us. there were plenty of hybrids born after colonization just as there are plenty of hybrid neanderthal and modern man. i can’t believe that there was any crossbreeding. they just have not been found yet if ever. a lot of the prophecies were not literal. look at the opera house. and speaking of;
Opera House- IT WAS GALACTICA!!! COOL. baltar and caprica were heroes not villains. laura and shearon got it wrong. Laura was projecting because of Hera’s blood transfusion. Shearon was projecting because because she was her mother.
Galacrica- the was the dying leader and she went out like a martyred queen. that final jump was epic. seeing her buckle and twist the way she did showed how violent ftl is. did anyone notice that all of the raptors jumped out of galactica and destroyed her port land pod? i also picked up on something else during the last frakking special. earth cylons did have ships that traveled at light speed. not sub light. FTL- Faster That Light v.s. light speed linier travel. the 5 traveled at light speed and that is why it took them 2000 in colonial time and not their time on the ship.
centurions- let’s face it. this whole thing could not happen without the rebel centurions. humanity owes it’s survival to them. they were the PIMPS of the whole battle. don’t thank the 6’s,8’s, and 2’s. thank Ellen. she gave them what they have always wanted. to be treated as equals. they were the real key to breaking the cycle. i liked the montage at the end. to beat it into our heads that if we are going to create A.I., we better do it right or this will happen again.
Head Baltar,Six,Starbuck- they were angels. they were our conscience. you noticed they only showed after some big trauma. everybody saw Starbuck the way they saw her from their prospective. mystical? yes. Opened to interpretation? definitely. that’s what makes this forum so great.
the fleet were all doing what they thought they should do but needed a little push. we all do that. they all disappeared when they were no longer needed. i do believe in angels and that God gives us choices and it’s up to us to choose our own path. that is why we have a conscience. some people’s conscience will allow them to hit you over the head and take your all your money and justify it. i and most others don’t Think that way.
Baltar- he did’t die on Caprica. there are plenty of instances where people have survived things that they shouldn’t have. he just came out of it more frakked up than he already was. you will always be you. you can’t deny it. trying to be something you are not only makes you miserable.
he finally got it at the end. Caprica saw HIM for who was. she loved him but didn’t like him. we all did. his class or planet origin didn’t define him, his actions did. where we come from or how we look or social status doesn’t define us, what we do and how we live our lives do. a lot of people don’t get that. Baltar is that one friend that a lot of us guys have who aint bout shit but he’s cool to hang with and does a lot of the foul things we thought about doing but don’t cause we got more sense than that. we just won’t lend him money or tools or our car or bring him around our girlfriends much cause we know how it will turn out. a disaster.
Laura,Bill,Saul,Ellen,Gealin,Lee and even Sam- THEY FINALLY GOT TO LIVE! however brief with Laura, she finally got free of everything. no fleet to worry about. no dead family, no cylon war. just live. Sam got the perfect game. in the end he died with his team. Galactica and the fleet. same with the 3 Musketeers.(Bill,Saul,Ellen)they got to live out the rest of their lives the way they wanted. bittersweet for Bill.
as for the rest of the colonials they started anew just as they did when they left Kobol. in TOS the 12 colonies did the same thing. when they found that binary solar system and resettled, they scrapped all of their technology and started over. it gave them time to do things different. this is yet another chance.
i think RDM was saying in the end that We control our future and our destiny. God gave us all the tools and supplies to build our own homes. we can build them with straw, or sticks, or bricks. how we build our homes(lives) and maintain them is up to us.
March 22nd, 2009 at 1:00 pm
@bradj84 Says: “Ok someone needs to enlighten me on Mitochondrial DNA. Whats the significance since humans were already present on Earth?”
The present working hypothesis is that mitochondria are actually in a symbiotic relationship with the host cell. The evidence for this is that Mitochondrial DNA is different than what is found in the nucleus of the host cell.
Think of mitochondria as the powerplant of a cell. It generates ATP (adenosine triphosphate). When ATP -> ADP + P, it releases energy for chemical reactions within the cell.
Cylons have remarkable strength. It could be that they have more mitochondria in their cells than humans.
Hera, as a hybrid, would have some of that extra mitrochondria and could be the one that introduced this elevated mitochondria count in our cells. THis would give early humans a better chance at survival – especially since we were in a period of on-again/off-again ice ages.
I guess that makes us all Cybrids.
Once a science teacher, always a science teacher.
The following is a quote from the Wikipedia
“Mitochondrial Eve (mt-mrca) is the name given by researchers to the woman who is defined as the matrilineal most recent common ancestor (MRCA) for all currently living humans. Passed down from mother to offspring, her mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) is now found in all living humans: every mtDNA in every living person is derived from hers. Mitochondrial Eve is the female counterpart of Y-chromosomal Adam, the patrilineal most recent common ancestor, although they lived at different times.
She is believed to have lived about 140,000 years ago in what is now Ethiopia, Kenya or Tanzania.
Mitochondrial Eve is the MRCA of all humans via the mitochondrial DNA pathway, not the unqualified MRCA of all humanity. All living humans can trace their ancestry back to the MRCA via at least one of their parents, but Mitochondrial Eve is defined via the maternal line. Therefore, she necessarily lived at least as long, though likely much longer, ago than the MRCA of all humanity.
The existence of Mitochondrial Eve and Y-chromosomal Adam does not imply the existence of population bottlenecks or a first couple. They each may have lived within a large human population at a different time.”
March 22nd, 2009 at 1:00 pm
Wow, just wow.
I am so completely satisfied with the ending. To have Hera be Mitochondrial Eve is genius — yet I see from some of the comments above that some people didn’t get it! Nor do they get ‘earth’ and ‘earth 2.0′.
The planet we saw at the end of season 3 was OUR earth.
The planet that they all found that was burned to a crisp in the middle of season 4 was NOT the same planet! It was referred to as earth, as that’s what they knew it to be called.
The planet that they all found in the series finale was OUR earth – the same planet that was shown at the end of season 3. It was a total fake out. Everyone thought the nuked earth was ours and thought the bridge was the brooklyn bridge, etc etc. But they purposely didn’t show the landforms as they were landing on this planet — if you recall, they were all obscured by clouds.
To have them find ‘our’ earth – and put BSG in the timeframe of 148,000 BCE is just genius! No dirty (and easy-way-out) time travel required!
And to have Hera be so relevant – of course she had to be rescued. She is everyone’s ancestor (who is alive today!) – she was the evolutionary leap that was required to have human and cylons co-exist, to populate the planet that we now call earth.
Also – loved the opera house visions!! LOVED the music, what a score! Loved Starbuck’s goodbye to Anders. Didn’t so much like the Starbuck disappearance (they said we’d know the truth..all will be revealed.. well not really
….) — but I can live with it. They could have really fleshed out the whole abandoning technology thing, but they only had so many minutes, I know.
Finally, thank you Matt and Nat for all the cool BSGcasts you’ve done! It’s really helped us fans have an outlet AND an inlet into the aftermaths of each episode.
March 22nd, 2009 at 1:23 pm
Fantastic ending. I was skeptical that Ron Moore could pull off this ending even with a 2 hour final episode. As usual, he’s done the impossible.
First: I admire the idea to bring back the original BSG theme of “There are those who believe that life here began out there”. Going back to the series roots for an appropriate ending was brilliant. It is a FAR better and more appropriate ending than TOS “Galactica 1980″. It also fits nicely into the recurring theme of “All of this has happened before and it will all happen again.” This even ties in the “original Earth” nicely if you think about it.
It was also great to see the original Cylon Centurians. They aren’t a relic of history after all. The comment that “We’ll give the basestar to the Centurians, they have earned their freedom” was interesting. It reveals that the cylons themselves kept the Centurians as essentially slaves. I hope they explore this more in the forthcoming movie “The plan”.
Another brilliant point: The tie-in to the Opera House and the original 5. Amazing. Nothing more to say about that.
It was terrific to see Boomer “redeem” herself at the end. The flashback to her “one big thing” that she promised Adama she would do at least gives us some bit to like about her character, in spite of the hatred formed for her in the previous few episodes. Nice touch. (and yes, she needed to be shot dead just like she was.)
Baltar’s revelation that he knows how to farm means that just now .. he has gained an appreciation for his father. Nice touch as well.
I have no thoughts on Starbuck, or Baltar or Caprica. My wife and friend have a theory that I can’t dispute but may be right: Starbuck is an angel. Baltar and Caprica are Gods that manifest themselves as human or cylon during different events in history. The explanation works. Perhaps some ideas are best left to the viewer to interpret. Such as “Is Deckard a replicant?” (Blade Runner).
I have no thoughts on the pigeon. I guess Matt said it correctly with his question at the end of the podcast.
I hope you all keep doing something with BSG. I’ve had too much fun watching you all.
March 22nd, 2009 at 1:37 pm
I can’t beileve this story and journey is finally over (weeping softly). What a ride it’s been for all of us watching. To have the opportunity to watch the evolution of so many profound characters has changed my life and enriched me in so many ways.These charcters both machine and human alike were all so flawed but profoundly beautiful in their own ways (like every living being on earth today is).The writers and actors alike helped push the boundaries of mind, body, and soul. Never before in Sci-fi have you really been able to identify with the very human traits like deep desperation, depression, self loathing and selfishness that we observe at so many points from secondary and main characters alike.
Coming for a Anthropolgical background the mythology, politics, and history always enthralled me. My favorite moments of the series always seemed to focus on when characters like Kara, Lee, Adama and Roslin end up back on Caprica or expolring Kobal.The very introduction of ancient Greek and Roman religion to the show excited me and made me question early on how it all tied in to US watching the show. That’s why when the series completed with humans and robots dropping from space observing the begginings of (OUR) human civilization the gather/hunter groups made me amost jump right out of my seat. This series has always been about addressing real life situations, history, problems, and beliefs in a sci/fi setting. Thats why I loved that we introduced our beloved charaters into a time in our human history when so called “primitive” humans started making the most advancments in history. Was it the “star children” (refering to Beloved BSG charters) that introduced us to multipy Gods like Zeus and Aphrodite and against Lee’s wishes more advance technology. Did they bring with them and share even their own long held mythology and interest in the skies. Lee made the immediate point that their group should avoid making the mistake of introducing cities and advancments to the New Earth. But the surviors have never all been in agreement and I think not all tecnology was sent into the sun(example Adama’s raptor). Human beings on Earth have allways been looking up at the stars hoping for other beings in the universe, and questioning advancments in ancient civilization. Questioning how and why impossible things like massive ancient structures (i.e. pyramids, stonehenge), science, and mathmatics were dicovered by what we think to be less advanced civilizations. I think Ron set up our very history for us. He gave us answers in a strange way to all our questions about our ancient past and the way humans evolved to where we are now. He gave us our Atlantians, our interest in the Skies above the beginnigs of polythism and monothism. What better way to take Science fiction then really using human history. That would mean BSG took place in the past for us just like Kobol and Earth took place in the past for the Characters of BSG.
As far as this new planet they landed on Ron showed us Our Earth Now there is no question of that. Head Baltar and Six were walking the streets of New York and the TV’s were playing real videos of advancements made in China and Tokyo in robortic advancment. Even the “All Along The Watchtower” that started it all was playing on the radio, it turned into music sung by Hendricks(written by Dylan) a musician(s) we are all fimilar with. Ron gave us such a great story but in the end reminded us again that it’s not all fantasy and that we can make our own lives the hell or heaven we choose by learning from our history or repeating past mistakes.
Thank You Ron for reminding us of one of lifes most important lessons, the importance of remembering and learning from the past.
The end might not have lived up to all my/our expectation (especially with Lee/Kara) but the cast and crew know how to make Scientic Fiction become real.
PS. Just a Couple of Thanks
Thanks to Dan for getting me hooked. BSG crew and cast for keeping it (Semi) real. And BSG Cast for being my favorite sites and so much fun to watch.
Peace and Love to everyone — can’t wait for Caprica!
March 22nd, 2009 at 1:56 pm
i have to agree that i think there has been some misunderstandings present in your BSGcast. I definitely think it was clear that there was no “time vortex”/”alternate universe”or a quantum fracturing of the universe….BSG has Never done anything that Scifi and i dont think they would do that for the finale. It was a different planet, that they called Earth, since Earth was a symbol of their dream.
I think the main problem people have with the finale is that they approached it like they would star trek, or star wars or something. As i recall on yourgeeknews Mat and Nat gave a good review to “Hancock” becuase of the “mythos” it established. Scifi and fantasy is very different from most literature in that the fans of it seem to demand these established mythos more than anything. However BSG has always been different from most scifi, so while some scifi shows are good at creating a whole alternate universe/world, i just think that BSG got the point that its the story and characters that are more important. I just feel that Karas story and everything worked out for the best story, and that there is more meaning found here. If what you really desired was a step-by-step spoonfed explanation i think the series would have suffered far more. There is no literary significance to be found in a timeline of dates and events…those are facts.
Kara was a shadow of herself, a part that had crossed back over from beyond the vale to finish her journey. It sorta goes back to what Leoben first said to her when he started talking about how one can be “in the stream” while not being entirely in it. She wasnt a head character, who i think were presented more as “angels”, or servants of God. Angels are supposed to be heavenly agents, and NOT departed human souls. I think RDM said in some interviews that Kara was a ressurection of her former self, but she was never an angel of God.
As for the flashback si found them veyr important. Its a common theme in many great novels and plays of exploring the roles of Fate vs. Freewill, how destiny can shape our lives but our decisions impact who we are. For a story that involved the role of God as much as BSG did i found it very important that in the end the flashbacks showed how the characters arrived at the end. How who they are, the deccisions they made, brought them to this place. This is especially apparent in Boomers final choice, and also roslin’s and Adamas. Roslin was shown to have gone through a tragic event, and finally underwent an acceptance of this, and overcame her mourning to once again fill her life with meaning and importance by taking the job. Adamas decision to not take the cushy civillian job also showed how who he was, the soldier, the leader, brought him to this final pivotal moment.
As for Lee and the pigeon, i thought it was very sweet for many reasons. First that the pigeon that he just could not shoo away was reflective of his love for Kara. How he cared for her even when she was with his brother, and how he knew she had a self destructive streak, and while he always wanted to move past his feelings for her he couldnt. Until she left Him. I also found it nice that he would become an explorer, when his character has often felt trapped in many instances in the series (being a part of the military because his dad wanted him to, or when his GF got pregnant in that one black market episode that wasnt good, etc).
all and all i was very pleased with the series, and felt it was more of a epic like the Odessy or the Exodus. I think that if you were looking for clones, alien superbeings, or tacheon emissons causing time beinding then you would be disappointed, but if you wanted a story of metaphorical meaning and importance then it was a great way to end the series. Plus…Cavils line “I dont mean to rush you but youre keeping 2 civilizations waiting!” was absolutely hilarious
March 22nd, 2009 at 2:02 pm
Also, i think you guys are awesome, keep up the good work!
March 22nd, 2009 at 2:10 pm
I don’t know why everyone keeps thinking that they jumped to an alternate universe or time, if Galactica itself was the only ship to make it there then sure why not, but the remnants of the fleet found their way there to. But as everyone else has said, it was an absolutely amazing show and none shall ever be greater. I guess all that I have left to do is re-watch BSG, continue to watch Lost and Burn Notice.
Hope to see Matt & Nat when CapriCast comes out, until then.
God Speed.
March 22nd, 2009 at 3:02 pm
why do ppl kep saying the whole time/space continuem stuff about earth, they clearly state that the nuked Earth was the planet the 13th tribe found and screwed the frak up, the our earth was a completely different plant in the same galaxy and whatnot they just called it earth because it was a dream they were chasing so they called it earth, the episode clearly states this so all you ppl need to stop using these frakked up theoris of other universes and whatever.
March 22nd, 2009 at 3:02 pm
why do ppl keep saying the whole time/space continuem stuff about earth, they clearly state that the nuked Earth was the planet the 13th tribe found and screwed the frak up, the our earth was a completely different planet in the same galaxy and whatnot they just called it earth because it was a dream they were chasing so they called it earth, the episode clearly states this so all you ppl need to stop using these frakked up theoris of other universes and whatever.
March 22nd, 2009 at 3:24 pm
I loved this episode a lot. it thought it was amazing. I loved the way they ended Kara’s story. She was an angel or something of that sort. After she completed her purpose she left. Thats it. But i have one question
WHAT WAS THE POINT OF LEE AND THE PIGEON???????
March 22nd, 2009 at 3:33 pm
Hey people! Yeah, I know… too sad its over! Alas, it went off A-MA-ZIN-GLY. I couldn’t help but feel the “epicness” as Galactica jumped to the colony and it started pounding the poor old lady… not to mention the battle as a whole. I also liked how the “opera house” was handled, it wasn’t just some random stuff.
Kudos go for the writing too! Specially the scenes before the ‘Fall of Caprica’, they really connected with what was happening on board Galactica and later on Earth.
Very happy (as many others it seems) to have the chief kill Tori, the bitch had it coming for loooooong while now. For a moment I felt sad because I thought the Chief had fraked things up again (he destroyed the truce), but it end it worked for the best.
I WOULD have done things differently (not that anyone cares, hehe), I would have killed many characters, some of them before the finale… Still, all in all I liked it. A LOT. Well, except how at the end they showed us those innocent japanese robots as evil centurions! On the other hand the message about our planet being magnificent and beautiful without cities and stuff was nice. (Not that we cant have cities + beautiful planet. Not that the series said we couldn’t, just that we should.)
Can’t wait for the DVD!
PS: Admiral Hoshi rocks!
Also people, don’t expect new amazing revelations (angels, God, Kara, etc). This is it. And its perfect like that. (Of course The Plan and Caprica will show us some minor revelations but nothing major.)
March 22nd, 2009 at 3:57 pm
What the frak is wrong with that panel?
The Cylon “Earth” was not our earth! I have been saying this since they arrived at the beginning of 4.0. There was no moon, you never saw the continental arrangement. Nothing to indicate it was our earth. It was simply NAMED “Earth”. Adama and Roz discussed the fact the new earth was not the “real earth”, adama said “Earth is a dream” let this be earth.
I’m convinced that everytime a cycle occurs there are survivors that may settle on many planets, which may explain how humans evolved on the new Earth. The same planets are nuked, healed, surviving humans reevolve, planet gets reused in a later cycle, which is how Hera had a genetic memory/song for the location of “New Earth. New Earth could be Caprica from many cycles ago, who knows. I even speculate that Mars may be Earth of the future or past that isn’t yet/no long habitable. but that’s my imagination.
So here is my understanding of the story from the beginning
1)Human’s settle Kobol
Obviously it was not where human’s evolved. There must have been some proto-humans there already that they could breed with. The “gods” that lived with the human on Kobol were the equivalent to our characters from BSG that settled “New Earth”. Breeding with and giving the proto-humans of Kobol things like language.
If you think about the Pythian prophecies and even our own mythology it is reflected in the Finale. The 13th tribe leaving Kobol “in the Early days”. That was the Centurions who left on the Base Star. They are the equivalent of the Cylons who settled the “original Earth” where Starbuck died.
Apollo the explorer, god of the Sun, Culombus, Magellan, Alexander TG
Gaius the Farmer, Scientists, bringer of Technology, Einstien, Prometheus
Adama father of the gods, Zeus, (his and Roz’s cabin = Mt. Olympus)
Tyrol god of thunder, the highlands/mountains/cold Nordic mythology
…the list goes on
1.2) The Colony of Doom
The colony maybe the only thing that definitely survives each cycle. The Colony got part the Resurrection Tech. That could be what the Final Five “reinvented” or maybe they found a recked Resurrection hub, irrelevent. But we know the colony is not original, and it survived Galactica’s attack. We know there are still some Cylons out there, they could easily be many Cylons out there from previous cycles (the 12 Colonies, Kobol, New Caprica, still aboard the Colony even)
2) 13th tribe leaves Kobol early on
That definitely repeated itself here. The good Centurions, our 13th tribe, left “New Earth” on the Basestar, just as they did Kobol to settle the original “Earth”. We don’t know what they did between the time they left Kobol and settled Earth. But I suspect it had something to do with them trying to reconnect with the old model Centurions and Centurions from the Colony/12 Colonies. I think they tried to teach them about the One God but the others wouldn’t have anything to with it. Inter-Cylon war ensues, Good Cylons and maybe some human models(FF), leave to settle Earth… thousands of years later Earth is nuked but not before FF do what they did.
3) Something happens… Humans leave Kobol
I think someone (Cylons) discover Kobol, knowledge from the “gods” tell humans of Kobol they need to leave before attack. Or perhaps Galleon (Galactica’s predecessor) wasn’t really destroyed/flown into the sun. Humans on kobol discover it in they’re solar system and rebuld it to leave for 12 Colonies.
4)12 Colonies
This is where the spin-off series “Caprica” will take over. I won’t speculate on what happens but I think we will get a more… scientific explanation of the head characters (Baltar, Six, Kara) in this series.
March 22nd, 2009 at 3:58 pm
Mat, Nat & The BSBCast Forum Readers-
I have watched your post casts with some regularity and have enjoyed them very much. Now that the series has finally come to a close, i felt compelled to lend my thoughts to the series, as well as the questions that were raised during your live pod cast of Daybreak Pt. 2.
I have not read every single comment on the board so it is possible that there may be some re-treading, or that some of these questions are now moot, but here’s my two cents, for what its worth.
KARA:WTF?
The biggest contention/problem that a lot of people seem to be having is the “What was Kara Thrace?” story. Ron himself, in an article posted in The Chicago Tribune (See You On The Other Side by Maureen Ryan) has stated “…There will be people who will absolutely hate it and think that we failed in our mission. We debated it in the [writers] room, I thought about it a long time, and I had sort of the same answer. And the more I struggled to give definition to it, the less satisfying it became. There various avenues we went down, discussions, saying she’s specifically this or that. And every time it felt uninteresting and kind of pedestrian.
It felt like, if she’s truly connected to the Eternal, if she’s connected to this other power, this other thing in the universe, as long as you know she’s connected to it and she’s fulfilled her destiny, brought us to this place, brought us to two Earths, really, that’s enough. That should just be left to your imagination, left to your inquiry, left you to try to fill in the blanks we leave. That was my answer and I’m sure — I know – people will debate it.”
I can relate to this problem and believe that the best stories make you think and leave you wanting more. That may be a “cop-out” but as much as some fans have groused about the Deus Ex Machina ending, mysticism/religion has always been an element of BGS, even the original.
If it help you reconcile your ideologies as to the nature of Kara, you might take the idea that her resurrection was this BGS’s version of “Experiment In Terra” and “The Hand Of God” with Head Baltar and Head Six being this BSG’s “ship of lights characters” and Starbuck (rather than Apollo) resurrecting and being given help by the ship of lights “angels” to find earth.
Maureen Ryan in the vary same article brought up the idea of “the trinity” (a basic concept of Catholic dogma) and cast Adama, Lee and Kara in the roles/symbols of the “father”, “son”, and “holy ghost/spirit”. I think this idea also fits in well with the BSG universe. If we accept that one of its postulates (for both OS and RI series) is that we are the descendants of these beings, then might not our ideas of a trinity have been passed down through story of a real father son and an angel/ghost named “Kara” until it evolved into legend and mythos and something greater that permeated certain religions today, and religions passed – like the Greeks and Romans belief in polytheism?
EARTH:WTF?
In the same article referenced above, RMD also answered the question about earth/earth 2.0, saying: “That was all specifically thought out. The planet that you see at the end of “Crossroads” is this planet that we stand on. It has the North American continent and the South American [continent], it’s very clear, we wanted it to be visually easy to identify for everybody.
Kara takes them to both Earths, as a matter of fact. She takes them to the original Earth, which, when we showed it in Revelations, we were careful to never quite be able to identify the land masses from orbit. We wanted you to accept it as Earth, and most people assumed it was this Earth, but we didn’t want to flat out mislead you, so we didn’t want to have it look like North America too.”
He goes on to say: “…I thought there was something interesting about that. This isn’t the original Earth. We’re actually [living on] an homage, as you said, to the original Earth. They come here and try to learn a lesson from the original Earth and make this Earth a better story.”
I think this also makes for a resolution with a greater impact, in that we/this whole planet are representative of “a second chance” – all the more important to not “f” it up — again!
HERA:EARTH MOTHER
She did not die at a young age, as postulated by some fans. In fact if you look up “Mitochondrial Eve” on wki, her’s what it says: “To find the Mitochondrial Eve of all living humans, one can start by tracing a line from every individual to his/her mother, then continue those lines from each of those mothers to their mothers and so on, effectively tracing a family tree backward in time based purely on mitochondrial lineages. Going back through time these mitochondrial lineages will converge when two or more women have the same mother. The further back in time one goes, the fewer mitochondrial ancestors of living humans there will be. Eventually only one is left, and this one is the most recent common matrilineal ancestor of all humans alive today, i.e. Mitochondrial Eve.
It is possible to draw the same matrilineal tree forward in time by starting with all human female contemporaries of Mitochondrial Eve. Some of these women may have died childless. Others left only male children. For the rest who became mothers with at least one daughter, one can trace a line forward in time connecting them to their daughter(s). As the forward lineages progress in time, more and more lineage lines become extinct, as the last female in a line dies childless or leaves no female children. Eventually, only one single lineage remains, which includes all mothers, and in the next generation, all people, and hence all people alive today.”
Kinda makes you all warm and fuzzy – don’t it?
Anyway, I hope these observation and quotes give you at least some food for thought. It has been a great journey, and the journey (like the characters) is the thing, not the destination be it their earth or ours.
So Say We All
March 22nd, 2009 at 4:03 pm
So the fleet was actually the “B” Ark from “Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy”
Nice
March 22nd, 2009 at 4:18 pm
I think its kind of interesting to think of Humans as actually being Cylons.
Humans created the old model Centurions, who created the Human model Cylons, who created a more advance model Centurion.
Could it mean that Humans are really just a Human-model Cylon created by an even older model Centurion? The Human model cylons that interbreed with humans could be just another addition to the Humnn family, our grandchildren so to speak.
March 22nd, 2009 at 4:24 pm
I ask you “Who is Kara Thrace?”
The universe has two sides, the world of the living and the world beyond.
Each side has a caretaker.
IT, which does not like to be called god, is the caretaker of the beyond.
Kara is the caretaker of the living.
Kara was afraid of being forgotten but not death. She did not think that death would stop her. Only the living can remember. The extinction of humanity is the only way for something to be fully forgotten. Kara is life. It strives to survive but does not fear the temporal deaths, only extinction. Extinction is to be forgotten. Kara is the spark of life created from the nothing. She only knows the life she imparts. She does not recognize the cylon sentience as life. Anders is what makes her recognize the cylons (all kinds) as alive. She cannot understand the drama between her life spark and the cylon life spark. The cycle is a test by IT to see if she understands. Her understanding is what unfolds the puzzle in her head. Her father is IT. And she is the child who must learn the lesson.
March 22nd, 2009 at 4:28 pm
I do not see how people are coming up with alternate universe theories, time travel blah blah blah. The planet they found, our Earth, the one I am typing this message from,is not the original Earth. The original Earth was already found and Deanna is on it right now watching the nuclear winter wonderland. Nothing about time-travel, blackholes or alternate universes. Does anyone actually watch the show?
March 22nd, 2009 at 4:29 pm
Great finale! I’m going to make my comment very easy to read quickly by sectioning it.
God as an explanation:
I really like that it pretty much turns out to be “God” that did everything. That concept is something we really haven’t seen much in sci fi because I think done any other way, it would be lame, but in BSG it was done great that every influence that could not be explained tracing all the way back to Baltar on colonial one and later on Kobol was leading up the the final moments during the fight on the Galactica. If this was any other show, I would not have accepted an explanation like “God”, but I do here because it is just vague enough.
Other theories of Earths:
As for the Earth Earth thing, I do not think it is a parallel universe or anything like that, I think we need to only use sci fi terms that we are given in the show. They never mention time travel or parallel universes, so we should not really consider it. I mean, we are accepting thing that don’t make sense like gravity in space and we ignore any Einsteinian problems with time differentiation when dealing with FTL travel or getting close to a black hole. (In our universe, the closer you get to a black hole, the more time slows down, and if you were in orbit of a black hole, it would need to be an incredibly fast orbit (on the scale of orbits per second))
My point is, we know this is fiction and so we buy into for the sake of the plot the fictitious science we are given and so we should not make up our own fictitious science (parallel universe or time travel) to explain something unless we are given it. Sorry for the minor rant, but as a scientist, I can only take so much fiction at once.
Karas time dead:
Back to the show, I think the REAL question about Kara is what earth did she go to when she was dead? She said it was green and when it panned over at the end of season 3, we saw north america, which is clearly on this second earth. I do not think that they are the same planets, I think that the new earth is our earth, evident by the final scene clearly being in NYC. So where did Kara go when she was dead? If I had to guess, I’d say her dead body was sent to old earth where it was found, and a new body and new viper were created over new, green, real life earth, then brought to the nebula to freak out lee. And considering she had the jump coordinates, that is where she was destined to go. On the same subject, going way back to when they got the arrow and were given that holographic look from earth, that was probably earth 1 when it was green, and since earth 1 and earth 2 are in similar parts of the galaxy, the night sky might just look similar.
Other:
I’m guessing we are to assume that any tech that was left over like Adama’s raptor just hasn’t been discovered yet on our earth?
It is a little odd that Hera is the mitochondrial eve, that means that she is the only person alive then that had female linage lines leading all the way up to today. If you are wondering about Heras kids, she had at least one daughter.
Does the cycle allow for the original lorne greene battlestar galactica to coincide with both the new BSG universe and our real universe?
Are the centurions still out there now?
Boomer still sucks, even though she did a few nice things, she still sucks and im glad shes dead.
MOST IMPORTANTLY:
So since in the present, we see normal newspapers, I guess somehow, over the course of 150,000 years, someone figured out how to put the corners onto paper?
March 22nd, 2009 at 4:43 pm
What is it to be a pawn?
The physical universe is just a shadow in the Beyond, just as the Beyond in a shadow in the physical universe. The head-characters cannot impact the physical world, they can only impart messages. Kara can impact the physical world. She is not a head-character. She can be real and not real. Head-characters can only be not real.
Kara, as the spark of life, remembers her father but was cutoff, abandoned as it were. She cannot see across the divide. Now baseship hybrids are a different matter. They have the spark of life from their creators, human, cylon and IT. They retain a hold in both sides of the universe. They know IT has a lesson for life/Kara. They know it is not comprehendible in one shot. They serve their closest creator, cylons. They recognize the kinship of Kara and feel IT’s presence. Anders as a baseship hybrid gets the full view. He knows Kara for what she is and will “see” her on the other side, as a shadow.
Kara is not a pawn, she is the student.
End of Line.
March 22nd, 2009 at 4:46 pm
o my god guys ur making this thing to complicated, though ur theories are very intressting, but ur way to deep in the point of view of the colonies, with this parallel univerces black hole and what ever ur coming up with, in my opinion u should tink about it like this,….the earth the found “finaly” i schould add, is def. ours the one we’re living in now,…and so we need to realy think about t,….we are the descendant of them and the way they found this planet was through, Kara Thrace who tiped in the coordinats and wanshed as she fullfiled her destiny….but the question ofcouse rimains , who or what she realy was after she reaterned from the nuked earth.
i realy don’t think that this earth they found now is the same as the found distroid, they didn’t travell back in time, if u look at the outher earth, it doesn’t look at all alike the one now, the kontinents are difrent.
If u ask me that was the plan all along, not falowing any coordinates just jumping away, i know kara new a lil what she was tiping in, but herself she was suprised what the found,….so the outher cylons will never find out where exact they are, and i don’t think that the got all the information from the final five to rebuild the resarection, till they find this earth, they’ll be extinct.
March 22nd, 2009 at 4:51 pm
Hi all my peoples, so the galactica has gone into the sun with the old school galactica music stringing in the background. I thought this episode was good in the fact it had it all, drama, battles, character delvelopment even though it left unanswered questions as we knew it would. I was not a fan of more endings than Return of the King, but I guess Ron didn’t want to miss anyone. I can try to answer some questions,
1. The battlestar and laura rosilyn were both the dying leaders, they both did.
2. The cylons plan ultimately failed because Cavil blew his head off and the final five fractured because of human emotion, Chief strangled Tory completeing his revenge for Cally.
3. They destroyed all the technology, but kept vipers and a raptor. And since they made robots in the end, technology obviously survived anyways.
4. The only cylons left are the centurions and 3 of the final five, I guess the centurians find some lizards to control them. By Your Command!
5. They found hera and her mitocondrial DNA which is present in every human being. She is the missing link in our DNA chain meaning all humanity is related to the cylon/human hybrid.
6. Baltar goes back to being a farmer with Six until they become Archangels.
7. This is for NAT…. Kara “Starbuck” Thrace died in the episode maelstorm, she then comes back ressurected as a homing Pigeon. She found earth, learned it location and input the coordinates to fly back for the jump. Lee vs Pigeon also symbolizes how Lee has always tried to capture kara but since she is a pigeon she must fly free and he can never catch her.
8. The whole series ends with a bun of dancing robots and then goes to a windows XP desktop, this is Ron Moore saying guys it is only a story, a work of fiction, although good, don’t put too much into it, there will be others whether or not you liked it.
I will miss you guys and have enjoyed my time on your boards. Play safe and have fun, see you guys on the other side.
Timothy Lovejoy
March 22nd, 2009 at 4:51 pm
Nat you’re so cute! I love your energy and excitement in your BSGcasts and especially in this episode!
I think the pigeon might represent a cylon skinjob prototype… if you think about it in real life we do all our research experiments on small animals first because humans are much more complicated creatures…
but that’s not really realistic. what I DO think, however, is that the pigeon scenes in daybreak 1+2, and especially how after starbuck disappears and it cuts to the pigeon flying out the window, is Apollo’s inability to have any control over Starbuck… his ineffectiveness with women. throughout the show Apollo is constantly exerting his dominance in everything he does.. he’s the best or 2nd best viper pilot ever… he commands a battlestar… he becomes pseudo-president and runs the colonies… he the best at EVERYTHING except he can’t get a grip on Starbuck (and Dualla). so the pigeon flies out the window, it’s unattainable for him. That was the saddest part to me because I think Apollo really loved her, more than anyone else.. it was the one thing he truly wanted and now he can’t have it ;(
March 22nd, 2009 at 5:03 pm
@Kattie
Interesting question you raised above.
Here is her post:
If ‘All Along the Watchtower’ was a road map to Earth 2.0 and not the way to the 13th Colony’s Earth…what the frak does it have to do with the F5? Why would they hear that song? Anders says that he played it on Earth 4,000 ago, so…if the notes equal co-ordinates, why would that version of earth beplaying the co-ords to the next cycle of Earth?
Here is my answer:
Simple. The Centurions who settled Earth 1.0, They knew about Earth 2.0. They could have even planted the proto-humans on Earth 2.0 the the fleet found. It was a super secret that they programmed (All along the watchtower) into a select few (FF). For this very reason. In case the cycle repeated itself. And it did. The Centurions were the “Hand of God”. They have always been the key. They know the history, the cycles, and what they had to do. Even the Centurions who started the Cylon war. They had too.
March 22nd, 2009 at 5:09 pm
I agree with the above poster that stated that a lot of you guys are over-thinking elements from the finale. There are trillions of planets in the Galaxy. Kara sent Galactica to OUR Earth, not the nuked-out one or an alternate universe/time-travelled one. I thought that was pretty clearly put forth in the episode.
Also: some elements in BSG are meant for SYMBOLISM. The pigeon (or any other bird that flies) represents freedom or rebirth. It is NOT related to Kara (if not only to suggest her spirit is free). If you notice, in Daybreak 1, Lee was chasing after the pigeon, almost in futile. It was to suggest his struggle and desire for mankind’s freedom from their plight.
In the finale, he simply watches as the bird flies away without chase. Mankind has reached it’s goal and Lee’s burdens are lifted.
Sometimes, well-written movies (and BSG) must be interpreted differently than its peers. Like a dream, their meanings are under the surface.
March 22nd, 2009 at 5:19 pm
Hi folks, and bye folks.
let me start with Matt and Nat. When I stumbled across the series I thought “her we go again, another remake – yawn. ” But then I quickly realised, that this is something different – way different. I wanted to share my thoughts and awe for the series but couldn’t find any other geeks like myself. Then I found them – our hosts. The two people who brought us all together – Matt and Nat. Thank you both so much for giving us this forum and for your quirky, informative, wonderful insights. I really appreciate it and my hat goes off to you. This will most likely be my last posting, so – I’ve gotta do this – “this is Ripley … signing off”…
But before I go, just a few words:
What a brilliant series. There’s not much more to say here – we’ve said it all. The ending? It brought some things back that I really started to miss in the last season. I had a lump in my throat and hearts-a-pounding a number of times during the episode. I mean – the Doc half choked-up and at a loss for words? Baltar wondering what the hell he was doing there, and hearing from Caprica that she always wanted to be proud of him? Admiral of the Fleet and President of the Colonies departing? It was great. It was more than that, it was a stunning “guns a blazin, Lord of The Rings, Star Wars, you name it”-overwhelming ending, the likes of which you would AT LEAST expect from a production of this high quality.
Alas – it failed to satisfy me on a few things we have all been wanting to knoiw:
- what is Kara Thrace
- Are Baltar and Six really Gods?
- Who were the Lords of Cobol
- Who left all the Markers that were found along the way
- How could Kara have known things and seen things that took place thousands of years in advance
- Why was Laura also able to be in Cylon dreams simultaneously with others
- who invented soft-soap, and why…
You’ve got to admit – they left us high and dry on a number of things.
Be good people,
Ripley
March 22nd, 2009 at 5:20 pm
I don’t think they left us high and dry at all.
March 22nd, 2009 at 5:33 pm
yes Mr. nice Giaus, thank you there is a lot of symbolism in the thing and i love your interpretation of the pigeon
ive always loved the symbolism used in this series and its cinematography is always well done
March 22nd, 2009 at 6:05 pm
I was just thinking last night about all the little things we found out…
The Chief….the first true Highlander!
Hera…our long lost mother. No she didn’t die young. She is our most recent common female ancestor. As far as the series goes we are all cybrids through her genes. That doesn’t mean that the rest of the Colonials and Cylons died out, some of us might have Apollo’s (If he had any children) or some of us might have Nicky’s Genes. But as far as the show is concerned we ALL have Hera’s genes.
Rewatching the series with that fact in mind really adds something I think. I didn’t think that I would rewatch a lot of the show simply because it was so dark but now with the Hera revelation (the BIG one in my view) completely changes my perspective. It really was the perfect cap to the show.
March 22nd, 2009 at 6:20 pm
Ok i havn’t read everyone’s comments and i don’t intend to but i just watched the live BSGcast and i think you guys got the whole ending episode very wrong.
Everything related back to what Guis called “the God force” and the personalities of the characters. The first part of the episode had to do with what God/the higher power wanted each of the character’s to do to create a better society that would end the cycle of destruction. Then after the battle each character’s stories showed why they were chosen by God/the higher power to lead humanity and the chosen cylons to help form this new civilization that might just break the cycle of civilizations developing too fast and then destroying themselves. Roselyn was a dying leader that helped lead her people to Earth just like she had been prophesized to do, Guis and 6 helped get Hera to safety and then were used by God/higher power to help eliminate more of the type of people that would only repeat the cycle of self-destruction(This is why they had head baltar and head 6 and why they had the opera house visions), Adama continued to be the commander of Galactica, the final 5 were agents of god that helped make the cylons that would possibly end the cycle of self-destruction, Starbuck was also being used by the higher power to try and create this new stable civilization(the pidgeon was a symbol for Lee never being able to have a long-term relationship with Starbuck). Hera was the “future” whose offspring the higher power thought would be able to end the cycle of coninual self-destruction. Hera didn’t die young. She probably died at an older age and they just chose a random or bad skeleton picture. The article says she was mitocondrial eve so eventually people with her core genes must have spread throughout our gene pool. The new earth Galactica jumped to was our earth. The final scene was a rhetorical ending about whether or not we’ll repeat the cycle.
March 22nd, 2009 at 6:39 pm
Huh…what’s all this talk about alternate universes, time travel and so on, M&N?
Way i watched this season, RDM makes it pretty clear that BSG is telling the prehistory of our planet. What some of us thought when it turned out that “Earth 1″ (the nuked one) was inhibited by Cylons…that we were Cylons…is half true. We are all Cylon-Human hybrids. Or could be, potentially. Our Earth is BSGs “Earth 2″. No parallel universe needed, no time travel needed (although possible through the singularity). BSG happened far before we happened.
It was a good ending, though i find some aspects (not nitpicking, global story plotting aspects) a bit disappointing. Higher beings are as much a throw-anything-you-like-on-it-bubble as dreams or virtual realities. So, Kara, head Balthar and head Six being such higher beings seems pretty thin to me. Don’t get me wrong, i like the way it was done, overall, and i surely like how it was brought to the closure in regards to those three. But in terms of developing an overall story that had so much depth and made so much sense without needing any higher beings, wonders, mysteries throughout the first three seasons, this resolution isn’t one that i totally fancy.
The character surely most benefiting from it, though, is Balthar. No question. There wasn’t much else left for him, was there?
That all said, i do like the way we got presented with the way RDM fits his story into some of our more vague culteral phenomenona. Why do we call our planet “Earth”? Because Adama named it so, and with a whole 4 season story behind him to justify that.
Why do we have 12 zodiacs? Because there were 12 colonies of that name and probably people on earth did name those zodiacs after the colonies. And so on…i like those reverse-projections of cultural snippets.
Also, the “before the fall” sequences seem to make a bit more sense now. The final five said they all saw “warnings” of an attack before it happened. I think one possible role of those sequences is to show us that Adama, Roselyn, Lee and Balthar had all received such signs…or were pulled into being in the right place at the right time by events that could potentially be orchestrated by “higher beings”.
As for Kara…i find it pretty obvious that Kara crashlanded and died on Earth 1. Kara 2 who came back wasn’t the real Kara anymore. She was “an angel”. What is still unresolved is why we heard so many times that she’d be the “harbinger of death”. Remember that this was always said by no-one but cylon hybrids. Question one is, did they talk about Kara 1 or Kara 2? Kara 1 has any right to be called a harbinger of death by any cylon because she killed so many of them. The question then is, was that regarded as death before the hub was destroyed. Harbinger of death could also be related to the destruction of the hub. I can’t properly remember Kara’s part in that right now, though.
Hera’s role and the whole Opera House metaphor is a bit vague as well, i find. Not that it doesn’t make sense or something, but no-one really explained why she was so important, after all. To show Kara the way? Ok…but why did she have to be human-cylon to do so? And why this whole Opera House thing. To get Balthar, Hera, the final five and Calvin into a situation where Balthar could talk to Calvin in a way he would understand? Plausible, sensible, but again not justifying the constant impetus on that Opera House thing over the stretch of four seasons.
So, all in all, i think it was a good conclusion of this whole show…but i did find that some things turned out a bit misproportioned in the end.
March 22nd, 2009 at 6:43 pm
I have just one question… didn’t Kara kill Skulls during the mutiny?… I could have sworn he died… how was he in a raptor to be killed in this episode?
March 22nd, 2009 at 6:57 pm
I have been thinking a lot about the Ff ,Kara and the song as well. I think that it was part of the “higher power” which was at work, and thank god it was subtle and not all weird. Anyway, I had theorized that the FF’s true purpose was to save humanity from itself. I think that was true because the FF were “turned on” at a crucial point in their future; ie. a future that needed to coexist w/their enemies. The FF, even Tory at one point (yeah Chief!), were all vital to humanity’s survival-Ellen although killed for her betrayal of the Resistance, came back at a point when her wisdom was needed to help everyone reach their end. They did not get turned on until humanity had reached a turning point in its’ existence, one that was aided by Kara’s death, and rebirth, as Lee was able to bring that alliance into play. Lee could not have started the alliance w/out Kara’s rebirth, because it was the fact that he was so happy to see her again, now that he had accepted his love for her, that enabled him to be able to see such an alliance as the key to their survival. Lee and Kara could never have fulfilled their destinies w/out the other.
I also believe that since each FFer played such a vital role in the resistance on NC, and on the Galactica, it is further proof of how they were guarding humanity. Kara remembering and playing the music for the entire bar, and having it register w/the Five, proved how she had been groomed for her destiny of helping to save the fleet and stop the cycle since she was a child. Seeing her punching in those numbers to get them to their final resting place, was pretty amazing. She found a place where perhaps humanity would not live long lives at their advanced stage, but they would at least know there were another species, although primitive, who would be able to continue the race.
I am confused about Hera–why was she so important? She was a blended child, but how did her DNA become our past? I can only guess that the strength of her genes, and mating w/regular humans, who then had kids, and then eventually started blending w/the current population, would be how that would take place. I can only guess that it was her blended DNA was what allowed the species to continue to grow and not die. I think that was the purpose of their new home–not to build a new city and start again. But to find some peace in their ending,–I mean really half the people had been starving, living in small, cramped dirty quarters, eating that goop they had to eat to survive. I bet most people thought they would die on those ships, so a beautiful home, was a blessing, not a curse.
What a wonderful show, I will miss the superb writing and acting on this show, which never received the credit it deserved. I mean really, what other TV show would have made Earth a burnt out radioactive cinder, and had people start committing suicide and lose all hope, and show how low things had become by showing how they only had one tube of toothpaste left. Other shows would have kept it light, and not shown how it really would have been–people committing suicide, and creating mutiny. Well done, well done.
I am looking forward to the Plan, and Caprica seems like it will give us some new questions about our souls and what it means to be human. I can’t wait.
A
March 22nd, 2009 at 6:58 pm
I definitely enjoyed that, but I’m not quite satisfied. (’fraid I haven’t read the preceding comments, just need a rant). In particular
starbuck – what is she? (or was she?) She was more than just a head character – the head characters never punched in jump co-ordinates, flew vipers …
and just giving up the technology and sending the entire fleet into the sun!!! No way. The adama family might have, but not the fleet as a whole. It wouldn’t have taken many people to keep some technology – one ship – and have a comfortable life. Otherwise they are likely to be wiped out by competing tribes who are better with spears than the colonials. If a proposed alliance with cylons would have caused a fleet wide mutiny, some crazy idea like giving up technology would be laughed out.
So how would I have ended up on earth? First, once the Galactica jumps to the colony, Cavill sends in several basestars that completely take out the remainder of the fleet. The Galactica has it’s jump drive destroyed in the fight. Helo and Athena die in the fight after being separated from Hera, who is picked up by Gaius and Caprica. The opera house sequence and the CIC fight happen. Hera, Gaius, Caprica, Starbuck and maybe Lee make it to a viper and jump to co-ordinates set by Starbuck – Earth! Bit of a wind up sequence and we’re done.
The show has always been dark. Why not end darkly? All technology gone, the end.
But other than that – great battle. Loved Athena taking revenge on Boomer despite her redemption, and the reveal of what it was she was paying Adama back for. Loved the way the opera house stuff played out. Loved the old school centurions being part of the fight, and the new centurions being on both sides. Loved the deal being sabotaged by the reveal of what Tori had done. Loved the flight over the moon and the earth reveal. And I’m pretty happy with the second half of the caprica flashbacks (though not quite sure about Roslin frakking a toyboy and then deciding that politics is the way forward).
So overall a pretty happy camper, but some niggles. Ah well, nothing is perfect (apart from The Wire).
March 22nd, 2009 at 7:11 pm
Oh and a friend of mine wants to know where all the 6s landed …
March 22nd, 2009 at 7:32 pm
Hi there guys
Great to be in the company of such devoted fans and to share this amazing journey with you all.
I’ve done a LOT of reading since the finale (interviews and theories) and I think we are perhaps looking too hard for answers sometimes.
This show has been about subtlety just as much as its been about all out action. It looks like RDM has brought up a few things, and didn’t realise exactly how much we would latch onto them. For example Daniel, I think that story was brought up just to show how evil Cavil could be. Destroying a complete line of cylons just out of rage and jealousy. I don’t think it was a point at which to start drawing more theories about who Daniel was (or who’s father he was). Daniel was just a device used to paint a better picture of Cavil and to help us understand his motives more.
Everything came together perfectly in the end – the only way it could. There was lots of bloodshed and heartache along the way, but at the end the message was hopeful. And I think the hopeful nature of the ending was the FINAL TWIST. We were all too busy waiting for such a bloody ending that we forgot that these people needed to find peace – and they all did (in some way or another).
I think the biggest thing we should take from this show is its mysticism. This show has ALWAYS had a spiritual and mystic tone to it, RDM has even admitted it in interviews. Angels, demons, lords of kobol, resurrection, and projection. I have done a lot of study about spirituality and these are all themes and ideas that are inherent in the spiritual world. Projection can be a form of meditation (or Astral Projection – where we take our spirit to another place).
Which leads me to the most IMPORTANT point I can make. About Kara being the Harbinger of Death. Death in the spiritual world does not mean DEATH as we know it. Its NOT about destruction or being killed. Its a NEW BEGINNING. Talk to anyone who has studied spirituality in any form. Death means the shedding of the old, and the beginning of the NEW. And this is true in many forms of spirituality. Be it Tarot card reading, or numerology or even astrology. The Death card in the tarot means a new beginning, the number 9 in numerology means a new beginning.
And thats what I believe Kara was. She was an angel like Head Baltar and Head Six who was supposed to bring the people to their DEATH. i.e bring them to their new beginning. Kara had obviously died at the end of Season 3. The reborn Kara in season 4 was the angel that lead the fleet to earth. That was her unfinished business. And like all of us, when we have completed all we have to do, and we have reached the highest level spiritually – we ascend. We move away from the physical world and onto another plane.
And thats where Kara is now.
(Sorry if all this sounds like a whole bunch of BS to people – but it does resonate strongly with me).
Although I found this ending beautiful and perfect in many ways, there were a few inconsistencies/annoyances that I found frustrating (perhaps you could help me with):
- Did those raptors jump from INSIDE galactica during the final assault? Wouldn’t that have torn the ship inside-out? Like Tigh stated in ep 18?
- After the long drawn out battle where the Galactica was nearly destroyed – somehow the FTL systems weren’t effected. But in previous and much smaller battles the FTL system was knocked out in the first few minutes and always seemed to take a LONG time to get running again.
- That damn montage of robots at the end was a little jarring. Perhaps they should have just shown it on monitors in the background or something.
Ok thats it from me guys. I never thought I’d be one of those people that posts an entire thesis… but looks like I am.
Can’t wait to read more of your comments delve deeper into this beautiful story. Can’t wait to re-watch it on DVD/Blu-ray!
Cheers
Kaotik Theory
March 22nd, 2009 at 8:17 pm
As someone that really liked but did not love the finale – Daybreak is a better episode the second and third time around without the set ideal of what I though the series should end should look like. I wanted it a certain way and when it was not what I had hoped I was a little disappointed. To me BSG was is dark show that dared to push the envelope of scifi. The finale did not do that. No major characters die, no great revelations we didn’t already know and no morally ambiguous choices. But upon further watching, I didn’t have those expectations and can enjoy the story for what it is – the wrapping up of the character arcs from the previous seasons. The first time around I found the flashbacks distracting from the real story – but now that I know their significance I like them. The robot montage however does not get any less annoying no matter how many times you watch it. Show the first robot and move on. If I could change one thing about this episode that would have been it but when you have a 3 hours show I’ll forgive them for 5 seconds of bad editing.
The earth story arc is great – I don’t know which concept I like better – either Earth was our past and we destroyed it (as was thought until Daybreak) or earth was our future and we still have a chance to make things right. RDM found a way to do both.
Also the music for Daybreak was incredible. Give Bear McCreary a bonus check for this one. I think every major theme from the series got used – it was almost a greatest hits episode. The music was moving and connected all the other episodes/seasons to this one. Anyone else get goosebumps when you hear “the shape of things to come” when Baltar is back in the opera house from season 1/2. I need to go and buy the Soundtrack CDs.
March 22nd, 2009 at 8:54 pm
It is pretty hilarious that not one of the people involved in the BSGCast realized that new Earth was not old Earth.
March 22nd, 2009 at 8:57 pm
Mixed feelings
The strength of the show was that RDM focused on emotional intensity (holocaust trauma, love, death, fear, alienation, sex, birth, betrayal … good Shakespearian core issues). The weakness was that he began to twist his characters in ‘unexpected’ ways so often that they eventually had no “character” to speak of (with the strong exception of Tigh) and became mere ciphers used to speak emotionally intense dialogue that had little realistic emotional/characterological justification (Kara, Baltar, Adama, Roslin etc. all changed so often they became almost absurd). Ultimately RDM does not understand human (or Cylon) motivation well enough to write consistent drama, and so ended up writing mostly melodrama. Most critically, he didn’t seem to fathom, and therefor couldn’t write the overwhelming trauma of what the characters had endured and the toll of their constant fear and so the undercurrent of the show was rarely tapped.
Plot wise – The questions that were left hanging were too large, (and many of the events seen retrospectively make no good sense – examples too numerous to bother with) and so the end felt extremely unsatisfying. The 2 hour wrap-up really needed an entire season, and it ended up feeling like a rush job porrly tying up some lose ends in a plot that had gotten completely away from RDM. He (”they”, if it feels to personal and that I am picking of RDM, nothing against him personally) didn’t have a clear enough idea of where he was going at the beginning (making things up as he went along) and so he ultimately failed artistically at the end. The end does not cohere, there was not profundity or revelation.
Still, that said, it was often better that anything else out there in SF or most TV – but for a real understanding of character and endings look to Six Feet Under or the Sopranos (two totally different but both artistically successful shows with strong character development and brilliant endings).
I am sad to see the end of BSG, I kept hoping it would meet the promise it showed in Seasons 1 and 2.0 and in flashes after that but it never fulfilled the promise. RDM didn’t quite take his art seriously enough, seriously enough to map out the plot and the implications and meanings of the events he created, or seriously enough to understand people and how they change and often DON’T change, how they mature and how they disintegrate … our loss.
Kudos to the actors. Exceptionally done.
Final words — Lots of spice, little nutrition. Hopeful for the future of SF though …
March 22nd, 2009 at 9:04 pm
Pavlov’s God – Dude…I totally got goosebumps as well…
Before “All along the watchtower” and the rest of season 3 songs came along, I was obsessed with “Shape of things to come”. I loved the finale version of the song with the added percussion moments to this song were just beautiful at the end with Baltar and Caprica walking away and with Adama on the ridge.
Side note: When the camera pans out to Racetrack/Skulls’ raptor and it looks back at the colony before it nukes it, doesn’t the colony look like a Shadow Vessel from Babylon 5??
March 22nd, 2009 at 9:12 pm
Hey, can someone put this bsgcast on youtube? I tryed to watch it her but everytime I try the movie doesn’t load and it just goes to “again, or other.” I tryed again no dice. I normally wouldn’t care, but since this is the review of the Final Episode (Epic) I really want to watch it.
You don’t have to do it anytime soon, but I just wanted to give you guys a FYI.
March 22nd, 2009 at 9:45 pm
I _totally_ called it!
See my post for “Someone To Watch Over Me” :
http://www.bsgcast.com/bsgcast-419-“someone-to-watch-over-me”/#comment-33709
I predicted that the planet we saw nuked and was so disappointing for the Fleet was never Earth, as there was never the caption “EARTH” while they were there, we never saw Earth’s continents, nor the Moon nor Jupiter nor any other feature of our solar system. We sure do at the planet they end up at. Unless there was some kind of time travel, then it looks like my theory turned out to be exactly right, and to be the “Spock dies” kind of misdirection RDM is capable of.
March 22nd, 2009 at 9:48 pm
Definitely no time travel or parallel universe! They simply jumped 1 million light years to Kara coordinates.
Astronomist have determined roughly that our galaxy is about 100,000 light years in diameter. So they could have easily jumped into our Galaxy the “Milky Way” from another galaxy like “Andromeda” just as an example, no reference to the show.
And the probability that there are other so called “Earths” out there is a likelyhood. Each galaxy contains billions of stars with planets and there are billions upon billions of galaxies.
Just wanted to put my 2 cents in on that theory, because I dont want people to think that there was time travel or parallel universes involved. To me its a whacked out theory!
March 22nd, 2009 at 10:39 pm
It’s apparent that the ‘higher power’ allows, if not enjoys, pulling the strings and watching the interactions between Humans and Cylons. My final theory (and bid for the Alienware CPU!) is this: what if during each cycle the higher power selects someone that he considers ‘worthy’ to become an agent of his…i.e. Head Characters. In this cycle, that would mean Starbuck was considered unique enough or worthy enough to merit this consideration.
Everything is guaranteed to happen again and again because the higher power will absolutely ensure things turn out this way. The only reason for going through the motions is to observe all the Human and Cylon activities and then select the next Head Character.
To reference ST:TNG, think of “Q”. I remember him offering at least two humans (Riker and Picard’s archaeological friend) the chance to exist as something greater than a human. What if BSG has the same powerful Q-like character in charge who just happens to get his kicks from observing Humans and Cylons and then selecting someone each cycle who amuses him for whatever reason.
Anyways, it’s a simple theory that I think nicely fits into the entire BSG series…and BTW, if Kara is a pigeon, then according to this theory the higher power also considers animals as potential Head Characters…remember Romo’s Head Cat?
March 22nd, 2009 at 11:15 pm
Hey Guys,
. The earth they had found was not us it was the thirteenth colony which already had space travel ability, and was well advanced as we know because it did not takelong for that earth to develop, and the colonists had left kobol only several thousand years before, whereas our earth (as in the human civilization) took 150,000 years to develop! My point is the earths are not the same, we never saw the continents of the original earth and if you look closely you’ll see that not even the solar system matches ours while it is similar.
I’d just like to point out that the earth they found was not the same earth they had found nuked. This can be seen when Adama names the planet earth in REFERENCE to the other because earth had been their goal, a new home and they had found it, so what better name to give it than the same one of the earth they were originally looking for. There is no discontinuity in time this is because of “this has all happened before, but the question is does it have to happen again?” showing that time is still linear. The new earth is our earth, and it turns out that all this time battlestar galactica has been leading up to us, our earth the ones who are watching the show’s earth
Also I’d like to say that my one and only issue with this episode was that the destruction of the fleet was too fast and taken to lightly, I would’ve liked a true good bye to the galactica going slowly across it’s bow, looking at the word GALACTICA on the pod one more time and then perhaps even seeing it burn up. That ship is the show its been the protector and the home of the people forever i Would’ve liked to see a little more of an epic goodbye.
ok im done ranting
P.S. BSG CAST=PWNGE
PEATH!!!
March 22nd, 2009 at 11:15 pm
Ok Things I loooooved about the finale.
1-I loved the heart wrenching emotion.
2-I loved Anders as the Galactica hybrid
3-I loved the Opera house CIC scene with Sharon, Laura, Six, Baltar and Hera. It was sooo beautiful, moving and meaningful.
4-I loved the unbelievably intense hardcore battle scene when they attacked the colony. “She’s broke her back.” I almost cried.
5-I loved how Kara came up with the FTL co-ordinates too the new earth.
6-I loved the scene when Galen finally finds out what Tory did to Kally.
7-I loved How Caprica and Baltar both see Head 6 and Baltar at the same time.
8-I looooooved how we finally found out that the Caprican society existed 150,000 years in the PAST. Cause we all weren’t totally sure if the series took place in the past present or future.
9-I looved how humans were already living on the new earth when they got there. In the post neanderthal stages. So beautiful.
10-I looooved how they really did find Earth… our Earth. “Frak it we’ve earned it. This is Earth.” Classic Adama.
11-I looooooooooooved how the tied in our real life earth and current day events like Japanese robotic technology and our magazines and our technological evolution into the show. It really made the show… Real!
12-I absolutely frakking loved the Mitochondrial eve part! Especially because Mitochondrial Eve and the theories, science and facts about it are completely real and RDM decided to Make Hera the Mitochondrial Eve. It tied everything that has to do with Hera and the next generation of gods children thing up soooo nicely.
13-I loved the mystery of Kara disappearing.
Things that as a hard core nerd I feel the need to pick at. (Hopefully there will be answers in The Plan)
1-I thought Baltars ending was a little anti-climactic. After all he went through. Being instrumental in the destruction of the colonies, being president during New Caprica, Being on trial, being a religious leader, being guided through the opera house by head 6 in Kobol’s last gleaming where she said he is the chosen protector of the next generation of gods children. And ALLLLL of that lead up to him simply holding hera as they walking into the CIC. For fraks sake, what about Sharon and Helo? What about the resistance ensuring her safety on the exodus from New Caprica. The president, the fleet risking their lives for her. Then they both stand there and say “That’s it? That’s all god wanted from us?” It seemed soooo anti climactic.
2-The hybrids said that the dying leader would know the truth of the opera house. What Roslyn’s experience chasing after hera her way of learning the truth? What is the truth of the opera house? Is it the place in the universe where the music of everyone’s existence is written or played.
3-It just made me sad that Galen and Adama both went to live out the rest of their days in solitude. It just seems like such a bitter sweet way to live out the rest of their lives. Wouldn’t they want companionship?
4-Even though I loved the mystery of Kara disappearing it would have been nice to find out what she actually is and what really happened too her. Although I have some theories on that.
Overal it was and is a frakking amazing series and the finale was utterly beautiful. And I have a feeling that some of these questions are going to be answered in The Plan and in the new series Caprica
March 22nd, 2009 at 11:20 pm
“What is sibling rivalry for $1000?”, Alex…
Kara is the life spark of fleshy beings. She did not accept the life spark of the sentient cylons. IT, which does not like to be called god, was the source of the fleshy life-spark and the sentient cylon life-spark. It is all about sibling rivalry in the eyes of IT.
Each cycle can repeat with these two siblings or add another.
BSG is about Kara. If she learns the lesson about what constitutes life in IT’s eyes and not just her own, then the humans can too.
March 22nd, 2009 at 11:23 pm
Where does one get a frakkin viper anyway?
Kara returned with a new viper after her death because daddy’s little girl (IT’s little girl), always gets a sports car.
March 23rd, 2009 at 12:34 am
One more thing that urked me a little…. Where the Frak was Xena.. I mean D’anna???? Did she seriously stay on the Old earth? She had a destiny as well. Was it really to spend the rest of her life on Old Earth?
March 23rd, 2009 at 1:58 am
The only thing that really got to me about this episode were the previews for the second half of BSG 4, I mean gods damn it why use the tag line “You will know the truth” when what ever the frak Kara really is is left up to chance.
Also, did anyone else feel that angel baltar’s last line may refer to “God” (or whoever has been manipulating all of this) as being a she? (IE. someone we know… like Kara…)
March 23rd, 2009 at 2:12 am
As I explained in one of my postings, Starbuck was a divine avatar. So, God gave her the Viper.
Cylon number three stayed on old Earth and died there.
God was referred to as “He” so I imagine RDM left that power male (should have been a female). Starbuck was not God.
March 23rd, 2009 at 2:15 am
I just had a theory about Kara. LOL probably one of many but here it goes. When Kara said goodbye to Anders he said “See you on the other side.” Which is the same thing she said before she died. He said this as he was about to take the whole fleet of ships along with himself into the sun.
In many ancient cultures even up to the modern day, sun worship has been huge. The ancient Egyptians all the way to the Greeks and Romans, even christianity is a form of sun worship. And scientists believe that we all came from atoms in a star. What if the sun is god or at least a part of god. And when Kara disappeared what if she went into the sun? The constellations represent the gods and the sun is at the center of the constellations….. what if the sun is the eye of jupiter or Zeus king of the gods. hmmm??? something to think about. haha
March 23rd, 2009 at 3:38 am
Piece of crap. The story isn’t finished. What about starbuck – what is she? The ending is, well there are no words how awful it is. The fighting was very good, but what they did with the ships is foolish. I would have done: Galactica jumps, and dradis show unknown contacts. They find the real Earth, that Earth they found was an experiment of the thirteenth tribe. The thirteen tribe explain everything about the cylons, starbuck… they were the “gods” of Cobol and all of this was their experiment.
March 23rd, 2009 at 4:28 am
Alright. Here you go, all you haters and lovers out there in BSGcast land. In the end, we’ve hemmed and hawed and poured out and torn our souls asunder over this show. Whether you like this show or not, it several things seem very clear to me at the end of this episode, which I will mention here. If you have already mentioned this above, I’m sorry . . . I don’t have time to peruse 243 posts!
The universe of this show is quite simply OUR universe. Nothing parallel, no weird time things. This series took place a long time ago in a galaxy far far away. That in itself is awesome. It allows Ron and the producers to tie all the lessons learned in the show to our current struggles (thematically they have been parallel since the beginning anyway, but this makes it a bit more literal). The earth they find is quite obviously our planet. (They are reading frakkin’ TIME MAGAZINE at the end and Hera’s remains are found in Tanzania!!) So anyone who says it is not our earth is crazy . . . because it is. To cap this theory off . . . a) Times Square, b) HENDRIX’ “All Along the Watchtower”. So you and I are all decedents of Hera. Talk about making the show personal at the end!
Surprisingly (and I have to apologise to centurion005 for giving you a hard time last week) Ron DID go for the Deus Ex Machinae. God (or Divine Power) is real. And has a plan for everything. I love Baltar’s line to Cavil “God isn’t on any one side”. You go Gaius! So yes, God exists, and is potentially gender neutral (since the last few lines of the show are so strange and ambiguous.)
*Religious talk ahead . . . I’m not trying to push beliefs, I am simply stating facts from one faith which have an overwhelming impact on the BSG storyline. Please to not be offended. I will try to be as objective as possible*
Starbuck: In the end, Kara was actually a Messiah. I was thinking that Baltar was Jesus for SO long . . . but it was Kara! Well . . . she’s a Jesus type figure. If you want more info read the christian bible! I’m not pushing it . . . I’m just saying that it’s my reference for this deduction. Here is what I mean:
Kara is a Jesus type son or daughter or offspring of “God”. Since the holy mystery involves God, Jesus and the Holy Spirt being one entity, Kara could be viewed as one of/all of these three. But I digress . . .
In the Christian texts, Jesus dies and after several (three in the bible) days is resurrected. When he is resurrected, he isn’t a ghost. He is physical (doubting Thomas actually feels the nail wounds in his hands.) After 40 days, Jesus then ascends into Heaven, which basically means that he disappears all together. Thus, Ron Moore has made a very direct link between Kara and Jesus. It couldn’t be more obvious. Jesus is supposed be the way to get to heaven, and is thus the leads humanity to salvation. Kara also leads humanity to salvation.
Ron seems to buy into the concept that God does intervene in human affairs through these miracle workers (Kara, Jesus, Moses, Mohammed, etc.) but for the betterment of all people, not a sect of people.
On a lighter note, apparently the Greeks found some info about the Lords of Kobol . . . thus we inherit the traditions of the Colonies. Interesting!
Because the show is a fable/morality tale, the ending can’t be all sci-fi, like Edgaras above would like. The fact that the remaining humans revert to a more basic lifestyle is a social commentary on how our lives are too technological and we need to get back to nature and the important things in life. The universe will continue with or without us. All life evolves and at some point faces questions that will lead it towards redemption or destruction. It doesn’t have to be “robots” or anything that drastically sci-fi. It could be about how we treat our environment, how we organize our society, how we very the “Other”. How far we will our innate curiosity take us? Where will we draw the line? THAT is what the show was all about. It was never about all the other dressings of Sci-Fi. It was about our mistakes and the repercussions, and whether or not we learn from them. The question they leave us with is perfect . . . which way will we go? Will we play God too? What will those repercussions be?
All in all, a great end to this series. Touching and keeping with the initial question of the series.
March 23rd, 2009 at 4:43 am
I think the whole 1,000,000 is just a gross exaggeration of the distance. I think this is whole happening within the same galaxy. Given the amount of jumps they made during “33″ and the amount of jumps and time it took the fleet to reach Kobol, combine it with the time span and the amount of jumps they made to reach old earth and plus all the blind jumps they made, they would have very little knowledge on how far they traveled for the math needed to actually calculate it would be astronomical. So the whole 1,000,000 light years remarks looks to me as just a way of giving the viewer a sense of awe. Also it sound better on the script too then just a random number.
All 12 constellation are visible from old earth and new earth. The tomb of Athena showed the constellation as they looked like from the night sky of old earth but it seems that we can see them from the new earth too which means that they reside within the same galaxy as it would be impossible to view them from a different galaxy. The fact that all 12 constellations are visible from the old and the new earth suggests that both planets are in a relative direct line of each other and could very well reside within the same spiral arm.
By far the strongest indication that this is all happening within the same galaxy is found in “Crossroads, Part II” when Kara comes back we see the camera zooming out from giving us a wide shot of where they are in the galaxy and then the camera zooms back in to the outer spiral arm of the same galaxy where we get a view of our earth and not the old one.
on a different note I think this show will have the same impact on future generations as Star trek did and will become inspiration for future technology to come in robotics and also in space travel. The FTL drives they use are actually rooted in theoretical physics today as it uses superstring theory and m-theory to bend space and allow the jumps through the use of a wormhole. AT his point in time its still a theory but work is progressing on superstring and m-theory which may make the creation of wormholes possible in the future.
March 23rd, 2009 at 5:07 am
I do not have the time to read all the posts so if someone mentioned this before I apologize
I would like to mention that the number 12 has a certain significance. 12 tribes, 12 colonies, 12 constellations, 12 numbers are needed for a jump coordinate, 12 cylon models.
its also odd that a lot of events are coming together in the 21st century which is 12 reversed, Findin Hera’s remains, being on the verge of re-inventing cylons, making leaps in theoretical physics, and re-thinking of our own history in new ways. Plus Head Six and Head Baltar are having a very interesting conversation…hmmm..i wonder if the cycle is really broken.
All this has happened before, and it will happen again.
March 23rd, 2009 at 5:23 am
So Moore said he wanted Paople to speculate about what Kara is? But he totally busted that!
“Kara is something from the beyond, period”
And now we can start to give her funny names like Angel, Spark, Avatar, Demon (which is, by the way, pretty much the same as an angel, only in ancient greek) or goddess, but thats all we can do. Speculating about her? Not so much.
And than: why should the concepts of time travel and alternate realitys be more weird (or lame) than “GOD”?
Only because more people are used to the concept doesn’t mean it makes more sense.
All i’m saying is: the it had the power to: resurrect kara, build vipers, switch power in the fleet of, make people have visions, create head caracters…the list goes on.
So why didn’t it just change people into what it wants? And the argument it can’t influence the free will doesn’t count. The cylons could (see Boomer). Come to think of it, the cylons could have done all the other things as well.
So if we say the it thingy is all powerful, than its only intention seems to be to keep humanity in the cycle of violence. And why should we worship someone who puts up something as cruel and pointless as that?
Oh and go back to nature? God gave us a paradise? Are we talking about the same planet here? Deserts and Ice and Animals with vicios poisons? Diseases which are leading to horrible deaths? Aids? Try to explain your children that you gave up technology for theire sake when they are dying from eating the wrong plant.
Changing your sourrundings is one of the definitions of intelligent life. Animals have to adapt to their environment by mutation and selective reproducing. Humans create tools to help them. Technology is therefore the nearly ultimate expression of being human. How we are using our technology shows who we are, because after all you can use technology also to heal our planet. And create even new life (terraforming, genetic engineering etc.), which is one of the ultimate topics of science fiction and was sadly given up in the series for the religios stuff.
And finally: neither BSg nor BSgCast would be possible without technology;-)
End of Line
March 23rd, 2009 at 5:43 am
Heh, just rewatching the ep. Loved it even more the second time through. A few people mentioned the Fibonacci sequence as being the jump co-ordinates. *sighs* Damn, but that would have been cool. Unforturnately, the sequence is 1123 6536 5321.
Awesome bit of continuity, it actually matches the notes to Watchtower. (C# C# D E A G# E A G# E D C#)
The drawing lining up to the music also matches the notes. Very cool!!
But what was the 13th dot on Hera’s drawing? 12 notes, 12 numbers…13 stars? With the 13th ‘note’ not coloured in.
I also missed her line of “There must be some kind of way out of here.” Brilliant!!
As for the answer to the Starbuck question, Leoben answered it. ANGEL!!
March 23rd, 2009 at 6:24 am
@ Kattie: I think the thirteenth dot on Hera’s drawing is our Earth. The filled dots are the destination coordinates to the hollow point, which is our planet.
March 23rd, 2009 at 6:53 am
Oh and how about the language revelation (That’s not English you’ve been hearing over the last 4+ years– it’s Indo-European!)
Jason- I’m gonna have to disagree slightly with you about kara being Jesus. [Disclaimer...I likewise don't want to push my particular set of beliefs on anyone. For all of you who think that religion in general and Christianity in particular is crap I urge you to simply look at what I'm about to say as a plot point that moves the story along] I think she’s clearly a messiah (i.e. the Anointed One) but remember Jesus ascends to heaven in the first chapter of Acts…but there are still 27 chapters left the church was left on its own to speak (though it was actively guided by the Holy Spirit). kara actively guided the Fleet to earth in a way that Jesus didn’t after his resurrection. In that sense I think that kara is more of a Moses/Joshua figure (then again there are alot of characters in Battlestar who can fit that bill).
That and her resurrection functions very differently than Jesus’. Jesus’ resurrection represents a specific sacrifice that does redemptive work. kara’s resurrection transformed her into a spiritual guide.
So while I agree that kara is a messiah I think its a stretch to say she’s Jesus. She’s just too different in background scope and purpose.
I know I’m not getting extra points for multiple posts (this is my third or forth) but the best thing about this series is its abilty to provoke thoughts (and this episode especially)
Till something else goes DING!!
Dave
March 23rd, 2009 at 7:26 am
Loved the episode! Very, VERY good ending (not great though)!
To me it was a little bit too happy! I don’t want to seem bloodthirsty, but not enough deaths! They all go into a hell of a battle and all main characters survive? WTFrack? I mean it would have been more realistic if some of them got killed! The only important character that died was Roslin and, we knew that was coming from the miniseries! It just didn’t seem real to me!
Second, why the hell did Cavil shoot himself? That was completely stepping out of the essence of the character! He is essentially a selfish creature, with no real moral compass, so he wouldn’t off himself just for the sake of “not being killed by a petty human”, he would rather kill as more as he could before he died. I still hope “The Plan” will give some enlightenment on him and more…
I didn’t really get the very last line of Head Baltar with all the “You know HE doesn’t like that name! Silly me! Silly, silly me” but, oh well, divine power…
That is why I am very, VERY, extremely happy with Kara’s poetic disappearing! She said she has fulfilled her purpose, and given that she was never really a normal human being, it made sense! She died and came back, maybe she was off track and it was a necessary transformation for her so that she could see her mission more clearly than before, because she always had one! Again a divine power is at work in the series and if we got all the answers a 100% and understood everything how then will we call it truly divine?
Speaking of divine… wtf with the final five standing there looking all pretty and glowy when Caprica 6 and Baltar entered the CIAS… I understand it had to be the epiphany of some kind, but they could have just made it like a twitch of a second, like they were all there and when Caprica enters with the kid and they all look in that direction and THAT looks like the scene from the opera house! Otherwise why on earth would Tigh stand there, when the old man is fighting cylons(ok, bad cylons) in the control room.
Boomer – great ending it made a lot of sense! For me she was a complete character through and through!
Baltar and Caprica – incredible, especially the end when he cries – he HAS finally changed like she has! I think in 1 episode we’ve seen more character development in Baltar than in the whole show! Oh and one more thing about Baltar, I know he is a genius and all, but the man understands and has a competent scientific opinion about everything. First programming – the defense mainframe, second human biology – the Cylon test, and third, since I can think only of this at this instant, evolutionary stages of human beings… C’mon!!!
Ellen and Tigh – logical, though (and pls don’t think me cruel) it would have been nice if one of them died, a tragic ending for the most tragic couple.
Tyrol – saw it coming. He really had nothing left to do with either humans or cylons.
And I loved his mad face just before he strangled Tory, who was already a pretty hollow character for me!
Lee – was so endearing… like a kid with a nice shiny Christmas present!
The Agathons – I think I would enjoyed their happy moment more if a little more ppl have died and their story was the one really giving hope, like it should! When it was all happy and cheerful like that I was like “Oh, well, they’re happy too, just like everyone else.”
Adama – very quiet and peaceful ending with Roslin, very elegant and sincere!
Anders – his farewell with Starbuck was the most heartbreaking thing to me! And they will see each other on the other side, they are both connected with the divinity of the universe. Lee and Kara were never really meant to be that is the tragedy of their love, not now at the end, not in the beginning when she was with Zak. In the end love isn’t always enough is it? Also I loved the repentance of Anders perfection line when he was leading the fleet to the sun!
The very, very end – INCREDIBLE. Once in a bsgcast you said Ron Moore asked the composer to make “All along the watchtower” as if it was written by someone in the colonies, who dipped into the same ether as Bob Dylan did. It made sense in the end to play the Earthly version, showing that it is in fact our Earth they found and populated! And I don’t believe any time travel is involved! First Earth – completely cylon, was nuked they left it – end of story! This one represents the hopes and dreams just attributed to the name “Earth”!
Oh, one more thing, Adama’s “they’ve earned it” line! Ok, centurions helped, that’s fine but before they still wiped out human race, he might appreciate their help now, but still saying it so obviously didn’t make sense to me in the context of his very character. He might be tight with Tigh (ha! Tight with tigh) and be comfortable with him being a cylon and all, but c’mon.
But, hey, that is just my opinion!
Pigeons… ok it’s a stretch but after all birds are messengers of God, so it was sort of a metaphor of Kara and the whole angelic thing, and a good one, I think!
All in all, a very, VERY good ending, not great but good enough! And after all I am a very demanding viewer!
(P.S. I am sorry if I am repeating someone, but I didn’t really have time to read all the posts!)
March 23rd, 2009 at 9:35 am
Quick point.
Wonder if anyone else noticed this (Can’t be bothered sorting through 200+ comments at 1:30am)
But the FTL computer icon for the drive status when it’s spooled up is the same as the mendalla (sp?) that has been appearing again and again. Given Kara’s obession with it and the fact that was the first time that she had ever jumped the Galactica, resulting in the finding of “Earth as we know it” is more than likely not coincidental given that it just so happens to appear on the very console in which the “Magic coordinates” happen to be put into.
on a slight aside, Cavil shooting himself in the head was damn funny. “Oh Frak! I’m Fraked”*Bang*
March 23rd, 2009 at 9:53 am
after a 2nd and 3rd viewing, though I really like the ending and especially satisfying was the Hendrix version of ‘Watchtower,’ something really bothered me… James Callis’ acting as head balter.. I didn’t get the whole, ‘God doesn’t like being called God’ line from Caprica, because she had been touting the ‘one true god’ line since the beginning. and the last line, “silly me, silly, silly me” with the glasses touch move left me feeling confused and slightly uncomfortable.
p.s. some part of me was holding out that when they got to Earth it would be 1969 and they’d land a raptor at Woodstock only to realize that Jimi Hendrix was ‘Daniel’ all along
(the watch tower)
March 23rd, 2009 at 10:44 am
Re: giving up technology:
The colonials might not have any real choice here. Obviously, for plot purposes, one can’t have a lot of refined metal from 150,000 BCE lying around.
However, colonials Probably do not have a viable technology anyway. Trillium is probably not available. The knowledge needed to run an agrarian society from scratch is probaly not there.
Baltar says he is going to farm. Farm what? Wheat is 140,000 years in the future, corn (maize) even further along. No domestic animals (other than Jake — another dead end). The conditions necessary for the rise of agriculture depended on the end of the ice age in a different part of the world.
The best thing that the colonials could do would be to join with the natives. Of course, there would be a massive die-off as disease spread, as it did with the new world — estimates are that up to 90% of the native in the new world died from imported diseases. It is likely that the colonials would suffer the same fate (more likely than the indigenous people).
I read on another blog that Hera (and her genes) survived because she had a better immune system. This makes sense to me. Depending on the breaks, no direct descendants of the colonials who did not interbreed with the indigenous humans would be left in 100 years. ANyone who depends on childhood immunizations to survive would be dead. Anyone who wore glasses or had any other genetic weaknesses that there is no technology to cure would be gone.
Even if the colonials brought all their junk with them, the results would have been the same. Remember that the Amish only survive because they trade with high tech societies — where do you think *they* get their steel from? The only option left for that place in that time is hunter-gatherer, and the land simply can’t support the colonial population, even divided up into four or five groups.
Either that or the colonials would end up being Golgafrinchans from the ‘B’ ark. In this case, there would be evidence from the fossil record (and DNA) that would show up 150,000 years later. Certainly a way to go, but inconsistent with the rest of the epilog to the story.
No need to spell this out for BSG, of course. The story really ends with Roslin’s death and Adama’s monolog.
george
March 23rd, 2009 at 11:35 am
“Old soldiers never die, they just fade away…”
As I watched the Grand Old Lady sailing proudly and solemnly toward the sun and her final destiny, I remembered the words of General Douglas MacArthur during his farewell address to Congress. As Galactica faded from sight, his words rang true and clear:
“And like the old soldier of that ballad, I now close my military career and just fade away, an old soldier who tried to do his duty as God gave him the light to see that duty.”
Galactica did not fail those who believed in and loved her the most. She won the day and brought them safely home – one last time. And those who had suffered so much for so long found peace on a planet rich in life and promise and the chance to “begin anew in ways uncertain.”
That’s what this finale was for me. RDM brought us safely home to Earth – our Earth – and a new beginning. The devil may be in the details, but the story ended exactly as I first predicted. The events of BSG happened thousands of years ago in our Earth’s pre-history and we all are descended from “cybrids”.
Admittedly, I am still absorbing “Daybreak, Parts I, II and III” and I also took the time to read EVERY post in this thread before I shared any opinion of my own – I’m busy like everyone else, but “if something’s important, you make the time.” There are too many great posts to call everyone out, but I thouroghly enjoyed reading your thoughts and opinions.
My first reaction to “Daybreak” was that it was a fitting end for the show and it had many touching character moments. I thought most of the story arcs were well handled and RDM gave satisfying – if not complete – answers to the big questions. But again, that is how it should be – we NEED for there to be some mystery left in the BSG universe. This is what will keep BSG alive – and relevant – for years to come.
Real life doesn’t give neat – or complete – answers to the great questions behind our creation or existence. Suffice it to say that within the BSG universe there are powers at work greater than Humans or Cylons and they work in mysterious ways and are answerable to no one.
Similarly, whatever we want to call this existential power at work in our own universe; God, Intelligent Design, Natural Selection, Coincidence, it is deeply reassuring for many of us to believe that we all have a purpose – and that everything happens for a reason – even if the answers are not apparent to us.
It is the quest for these very answers that ignites our passion and sparks our imagination. I hope – for our own sake – we never learn them all.
Thanks for a wonderful ride, BSG! I’ve had the time of my life!
March 23rd, 2009 at 11:49 am
I wonder if I read too much into this but I was expecting to see Felix Gheta again. I actually thought he may have been Daniel – the only surviving one. I am sure Cavil would have whiped the memory of him from all S7 ( or I guess S8) cylons. No one ever mentioned the 7 model or even hinted it existed umong the S7 but there was a point when Boomer said there were 8 in the fleet to Baltar. I pondered the end scene with Baltar and Felix when Felix said – “In time I hope people realize who I am” when Baltar replied “I know who you are Felix” – made me think there was something here. Anyone else have any theories on if that conversation was significant? I aslo thought there was something else to the Dee suicide as it appeared that she did so once she realized that she had been to earth before – with the picture she found and the toy jacks and she had some in her things as shown when Lee was looking through her stuff.
March 23rd, 2009 at 12:16 pm
So how do I get a date with Nat?, that´s what I wanna know… she´s good looking!
March 23rd, 2009 at 12:16 pm
Spectacular BSG ending loved it and cannot await the final episode of BSGCAST!
It has been awesome to watch BSGCAST after and episode of BSG- awesome job Matt & Nat!
Will we get a special green screen BSGCAST (ala landing on earth 1) with multiple Matt’s & Nat’s again on Earth 2?? hope so.
my only problem with season 4.5 is I would have loved for the “daybreak” flashbacks to have happened in another episode
like Deadlock- which in my mind along with a couple of other episodes this season were MAJOR clunkers.
All in all I would give BSG a final grade of an “A”.
I liked that we got the crew arriving on our Earth long ago AND also dealing with the present. Nicely executed.
I know D.Stockwell suggested he should kill his character- bad call, for the main bad guy to “just” off himself, lame.
Starbuck suddenly “knowing” her task is done- how’d she know that? and also knowing she would be leaving and then “poof” she
is gone- I am on the fence on this one, would have liked a bit more development on this…
Hopefully Matt & Nat might go back and do BSGCAST’s for the seasons/episodes that they missed- just a thought.
now awaiting the PLAN.
March 23rd, 2009 at 12:20 pm
OK, Ron Moore said in a recent interview(i just read on sci-fi wire) that he was leaving all that Kara stuff ¨Opaque¨,but to me it was very clear,i think she´s something like Jesus Christ, i mean she got killed and then miraculously came back to life, she ¨RESURRECTED¨, just as Christ did, and then once she completed her journey,she vanished out of thin air so thats good enough for me, she´s either God´s DAUGHTER or she is GOD…Whatever it was that was BEAUTIFUL, who are we to QUESTION that, right?…Besides there´s an EXTENDED CUT of the finale coming soon on DVD(as expected)so lets just be HAPPY of what we GOT, it was a rare treat.
March 23rd, 2009 at 12:25 pm
Oops!…Forgot to add that you got FANS way south of you, down here in Tj(Mexico), we had a little Frak party of our own and watched the finale LIVE along with the whole WORLD, and also de BSG-U.N Conference, its amazing that BSG has broad all of US closer together, because in the END we are(were) all COLONIALS, so say we all!!:D
March 23rd, 2009 at 12:44 pm
I’ve tried to make a post here twice before, but I’m not sure if it went through so this is a test- I’ll be really disappoined if it didn’t, because It was really long and had some really good stuff to say.
March 23rd, 2009 at 12:47 pm
IDK about anyone else but I was hugely dissapointed with the opera house. SO much so that I’m re-writing the whole damn ending myself. I’ll post it as soon as it’s finished (may be a while). It picks up right where Hera comes up to Baltar and Six on Galactica.
I mean come on, three years of teasing and this is the best they could come up with? “Hey, meet everyone in the CIC.” WTF? And Hera was in NO danger when they took her there. In fact, they took her INTO a dangerous situation and let Cavil get his paws on her. So yeah, I’m re-writing it. Sorry RDM, it’s been awsome up till that point.
March 23rd, 2009 at 12:59 pm
Matt said to post these over here, so here are my thoughts on Daybreak Pt. 2 and Why it all kind of sucked. These are mostly just points that caught my eye, use if you want. lol. This is all cross posted from my journal to my favorite BSG podcasts.
- Why did they even bother to bring Starbuck back? Plus you don’t even explain that at all. If she was an angel, why was everyone able to see her? Why have the whole thing with the piano player if you’re not going to have her live and try to figure out who she is? What was with the viper and…Starbuck in general coming back like she did? Starbuck should have either lived and figured out the information as time went along, or died and appeared in dreams to Lee. One or the other. Not both. And how is she the Harbinger of Death? Death of the Galactica? Death of herself? I thought it was really stupid how they ended her.
- Tyrol strangling Tory was pretty damn random. I mean, her killing Callie, fine. But he saw that Callie was about to kill herself and Nicky and I think that would have been way worse than just Callie.
- Them showing up so long ago? I had a feeling that would happen though and you know what I call that? Lazy.
- Waaaay too long. That stuff could have been done in an hour and 30 minutes maybe. A lot of that footage wasn’t needed at all. Especially EJO’s throwing up thing. That was effing gross and had pretty much nothing to do with anything, unless you say it was him at rock bottom without anything to really live for. Bullshit. It wasn’t needed as were the strip club scenes…NOT NEEDED. ((And is it just me, or does anyone else think Hogan has never been in a Strip Club? lmao))
- Had a feeling they were going to save some stuff for The Plan. I don’t agree with that AT ALL. End a story completely if you’re going to end it like you did.
- So the bird was Kara? Why even have her there then? STUPID. Plus that foreshadowing was pretty random too. Why are you going to show the bird when Kara, at that time, was completely alive and well. Or was the bird supposed to be his love for Kara. Either way, bird thing was not needed.
- Still didn’t really explain the Final Five completely.
- Romo and Hoshi is quite possibly the best new ship ever. And Romo still has Jake. lol.
- Cried like a baby when Laura died and Adama’s whole thing about the cabin. And it didn’t surprise me when he killed himself with his ship. Also, how did he get his viper to say Husker when there was no one else there? Um…yeah.
- Did Laura say that guy was one of her students? Because I kind of started singing ‘Hot for Teacher’ in my head.
- Visually stunning to say the least. I’ve seen a lot of that footage though and it’s called the National Geographic channel.
- I think it would have been much better if the remains they found were Laura’s and not Hera’s. Though I’m not entirely sure about that either. I think it was just meant to represent that past civilization and not necessarily a particular person.
- Caprica and Gaius appearing in the future? That was pretty dumb too, I thought.
All in all, BSG would have been much better if they went on for one more season instead of trying to cram everything into 3 hours and a tv movie. I call that laziness, not genius. Some things were good, most not. I’m not bitter either, I just think we could have had much better and we didn’t get that with these past 2 episodes and I definitely don’t think we’ll get it in The Plan. If you’re going to end a show, end it. Wrap up every single tie and loose end and leave it alone. No additional TV movie at all, unless you’re doing a retrospective/looking back kind of thing. Don’t end it in a story in a subsequent TV movie.
Just my honest opinion. Hope you all enjoy.
March 23rd, 2009 at 1:04 pm
I thought the ending was beautiful, i was really pretty worried about it after daybreak part one, thinking that they were trying to make the rescue mission more epic than it really was. I thought they were going to stupidly just jump in and let them blow the hell out of galactica while they tried some poor plan, and having no hope would ram the ship into the colony. Seeing the ramming be a part of the plan was really cool, especially as a way to get troops into the colony, and using Sam to shut off the colony’s weapons made it a lot easier to swallow. I loved how they just jumped the raptors inside the flight pod, blowing it to hell, because it just didn’t matter anymore. And the “red stipe” centurions were also very bad ass to see fighting alongside the humans.
Cavil shooting himself also, i thought was great for his character. He was obviously outgunned, and he didn’t want the inferior humans to be the ones that helped him into his grave. It’s as simple as that, and Tyrol chokin the life out of that bitch, Tory, was so well deserved and good to see. I really felt for Galen and how much that death tore him apart when it first happened. He finally got his revenge and knows for sure what happened to his wife.
The one thing that kind of makes me a little upset, is the conclusion to the opera house plot line. It seemed so monumental and important, but in reality, it was just a celestial map to the cic? But the way they had the music go with starbuck putting in the jump coordinates more than made up for it. It was stirring seeing it connect to her playing the piano.
Some people say that the flashbacks were irrelevant, but I really disagree. They did a great job of tying the story back to it’s beginning as well as telling us just a little bit more about the characters, like that there was something between lee and Kara even from the day they met, with his brother passed out drunk in the same room. I don’t know if it was meant to be this deep, but i also think that one of the simplest, but best lines of the show was when kara and lee knocked over the glass and Zak wakes up and shouts “aww…something’s broken” to me, that was beautiful, to me he was talking about the cycle, the ship, and possibly the relationship between Kara and Lee. Not just the glass. That flashback also adressed the idea of not being forgotten, which was a thread that wound all through the series with the hall of photos and Kat.
The Adama flashbacks showed how much honor he placed in being in the service,which made the end where he decided to give it all up more moving. Plus there was that humorous, but awesome bit where he takes the lie detector test and has to say he’s not a cylon. The best flashback was the Balthar-Six flashback series. Partly because they are some of the most interesting characters in the show, but also because they showed a much deeper and meaningful connection between the two that I felt was always missing. The Roslin flashbacks were the hardest to find meaning in. I believe they were about getting on with her life in all of the tragedy, and how she gave that strength to Bill, but also about love and how she needed an equal, which she found in Bill and thusly found a true love. The pigeon sympolism was very moving and fit quite well, even though i thought they had gone mad when i saw the first part of the flashback in daybreak pt. 1.
overall, i can’t think of any questions I still have with the series. I thought that the head characters being angels was a great way to explain them, i had always thought they were the beings of light, and i guess i was right. I was confused for a minute when Kara pulled the batman on Lee, but it eventually sank in that she was another angel or an instrument of a higher power.
The whole starting over idea was an excellent way to end the show, it tied it to our history as well as provided an ending I, at least, have never seen in a sci fi show before. Don’t underestimate the desire for a clean slate.
It was a great show with a great story, and I am sad it is over, but very happy that there is finally closure.
March 23rd, 2009 at 1:27 pm
Gaia Says:
“Cried like a baby when Laura died and Adama’s whole thing about the cabin.
And it didn’t surprise me when he killed himself with his ship. Also, how did he get his viper to say Husker when there was no one else there? Um…yeah.”
What do you mean when he killed himself with his ship? And about Husker written on the viper, watch the Frakking mini-series.
March 23rd, 2009 at 1:29 pm
Gaia also says “- Caprica and Gaius appearing in the future? That was pretty dumb too, I thought.”
It wasn’t Caprica and Gaius. Don’t you recognize the red dress and the pinstripe suit? It was the angels.
March 23rd, 2009 at 1:49 pm
After watching your after BSG Finale party, I have a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. Here’s why… (bit a ramble but read and discuss)
There are some black holes that were never filled in with the storytelling.
1. Decimated Earth had only Cylon remains and the 5 created resurrection technology.
A. So where did Humans come from? If not from that Earth then were did the 12 tribes come from?
B. If the 5 Cylon had resurrection technology why was it that Cylon’s only started looking like human and being alive in the human population 50+ before the nukes went off? Where was there hand before that? Did the 5 live among the population again and again until the iteration we saw them in?
2. It was clear from outside star shots that they were near earth before and after the attack by showing the Orion star belt. FTL drives have limited range so I do believe that they ended up CLEARLY on our earth that we live on now. They showed the continents and New York 150,000 years later. So this was clearly our earth and not the cylon decimated earth.
A. This still begs the questions as to were do the 12 colonies come from? What earth is that? If humans or the colonials were the robots of the cylons when should some remains be found on decimated earth? Yet only Cylon remains were found. Every human espaped? Not likely. So were did the colonials come from, is it unseen or is it here or cylon earth?
3.Hera/MitoEve remains were young and does that mean that Hera had a short lived life?
4.Just because technology goes away doesn’t mean that man can live in peace. In fact we enjoy peace now like never before because of technology. Technology makes it possible for most people to be fed for a small amount of money. You take away technology and it life returns to a barbaric trade and barter system that has people making there own rules about who owns what. I can clearly envision that the 35,000 or so make there lives on earth a good one, but still deal with trauma from lack of technology. No fire department means fires that lead to death. No medicine means people get sick and will die. No police means that the tribes who see that you have food/clothes/shelter/something shiny that they want means you might end up dead. It’s too unbelievable for me to imagine that technology truly goes away. It’s a romantic idea but a very unpractical one. Century after century life on this planet and it’s continued progress and industrialization has been a result of technological progress and a desire to get more reward out of less work. It’s may be something that’s leading to global warming, but abandoning tech won’t get us out of the mess either. Truly who of you would really give it up?
Think about this, IT has replaced many jobs performed by humans, but at a great cost. Displaced employees, increased power consumption, and a need for an IT repair workforce has created costs out of a system that is supposed to save money and this system also has the unfortunate side effect of creating a harried/hurried existence on it’s primary producers, users, and castaways. Unemployment and the economy are finally flat because progress has slowed. Progress has slowed because we’ve reached a pinnacle point in our existence where computers have displaced the most amount of the work/force as possible and saved all the money it can for the work industry, so humans will move to create the next thing (after third world labor/goods become exhausted) to replace humans in that next degree of totem. Robots! Which of course will come with their own costs and benefits. As with all technology the benefits are sold to us lock stock and barrel so we adapt, but the costs of the new system become part of our daily life. Whatever stress/work the new technology takes away, it only adds it own new system of stress/work.
So I make this argument but I still would not give any of what we have up. I’ve been a nostalgic romantic at times but I would miss everything I have now and would think I’d be preoccupied with thinking about all that I have lost. I would need a mind wipe, but I’d then have no pre-knowledge of the time I am going to and therefore would have the same amount of stress albeit different then what I know now. Everything has a cost!
March 23rd, 2009 at 1:49 pm
Kirsty Says: “One more thing that urked me a little…. Where the Frak was Xena.. I mean D’anna???? Did she seriously stay on the Old earth? She had a destiny as well. Was it really to spend the rest of her life on Old Earth?”
Yes, she stayed on the old Earth. She had lost faith. She was not the one with the true destiny. She was on a messianic quest and desired forbidden knowledge, but in the Eye of Jupiter or the episode that followed it, Head Six, an angel, tells Baltar that he was the chosen one, not her. She was not the one for whom the message was meant. She tried to steal Baltar’s destiny, but he was the chosen one.
March 23rd, 2009 at 1:57 pm
Like Gaia did you watch the same series finale as everyone else?
March 23rd, 2009 at 2:12 pm
I absolutely adored the ending. I think it was a perfect poetic mix of action and drama. Leaving some stuff up to our imagination, while at first it was frustrating, was a great idea. It allows everyone to get something a little bit different out of it.
And, this may just be an example of one of those interpretations but I love the way you can almost allow yourself to view the Galactica as being the dying one who led them to earth. Through all the strife, all the battles and all the bloodshed The Galactica was their rock. She sheltered them, protected them, kept them together and upon reaching the ‘promised land’ she reached her limit and could never jump again, let alone shelter anyone.
It was heart wrenching to lose the Galactica in the same way it was to lose Laura, or any other key character.
March 23rd, 2009 at 3:09 pm
Great episode and a great ending to a great show. But I also agree with some of the ‘nit picks’ as well. The climax in the CIC did not go far enough. I, like some others here did not really buy Cavil just killing himself. I believe that Baltar, Six and even Roslin should have died in the final showdown while protecting Hera from Cavil in the CIC. That would have been Baltars real selfless act – to give his life to save the child. Also it would have been a great irony for Roslin to die in a hail of gun fire instead of the cancer finally killing her and of course she would have never seen the promised land. This would have made Adamas Raptor journey at the end with her body in the back all the more poignent.
But like I said it was a great episode and I like the fact that not everything was fully explained. This I think will keep the show alive for many years into the future by ensuring fan speculation.
Oh and on a final note – when I saw the Colony I thought ‘My God it’s the Shadows!’ – you’ll either get it or you won’t.
Good hunting to you all.
March 23rd, 2009 at 3:15 pm
I hope everyone read Kevin Rubio’s bsgcast comment above. Explains alot. Cool that Kevin has been lurking here. Check out http://darthmojo.wordpress.com , cool site too. CG stuff..
May the force be with us, end of line.
C.Jimison
March 23rd, 2009 at 3:23 pm
stgenerations- your completely lost on human history if you think technology, industrialization, and (perceived) progress has created more peace and less work.
March 23rd, 2009 at 3:37 pm
I have to agree that a million light years is just a figure of speach. As great as the Grey Lady was, she didn’t have the legs for a intergalactic jump. Also, the habitable band in our galaxy is limited, so the Fleet was restricted to certain areas they could look for a home. As we saw in the show, habitable planets are probably pretty rare. Read “Rare Earth” by Ward & Brownlee to get a feel for the parameters & the numbers. It makes taking care of this rock all the more important.
I think Kara knew that her time was up the same way terminal patients know that their number is up. Pilots can also have that inner sense. (Read “Pappy” Boyington’s autobiography “Baa Baa Black Sheep” for examples.) Maybe Kara’s return was her purgatory. Having brought the fleet to Earth 2.0, she completed her penance and moved on.
March 23rd, 2009 at 3:39 pm
Now that I have previously established my enjoyment of – and satisfaction with – the conclusion of the BSG series, I wanted to offer my thoughts on one particular event in the finale.
There was one scene that – to me – had an unintended humor and played awkwardly on screen:
“Frak!” *Bang!*
Cavil’s quick-shot death did not play out naturally and lacked the same depth of contemplation and pathos displayed by Dualla’s suicide.
In retrospect, Dualla’s death becomes even more tragic in that Humanity survives to discover Earth AND Lee is left to live alone following the “disappearance” of Kara AND his father’s self imposed exile. Had she not committed suicide, Dualla may have been able to live a long and happy life with Lee – on Earth – free of all the baggage that came with his lust for Kara.
It was so easy to get completely caught up with the Lee-Kara connection, you forget about the relationship Lee and Dualla had briefly rekindled just before her suicide. It becomes a sad footnote to what might have been and the unnecessarily lonely life facing Lee on Earth.
Thanks so much for your feedback and kind response.
March 23rd, 2009 at 3:43 pm
Just a couple of thoughts on the finale (multiple posts):
I think that Kara is a ghost, not necessarily an ‘angel,’ though she could have been sent back by one of them to help guide the colonial fleet and rebel Cylons to earth after her death. With regard to the whole pigeon thing… perhaps that was her non-corporal self (after her death, and having lead the fleet to Earth and then her sudden departure) going back to re-visit Lee in the past, just watching over him.
Also, Hera did not die young, she couldn’t have if she were, as was implied, ‘mitochondrial eve,’ that is, and actual person whose fossil remains date back to about 150,000 years ago and whom is theorized to have been the ancestor of all humans currently living today. Th implications of this are mind-boggling, and tie directly into the speech that Edward James Olmos gave at the United Nations just two days prior to the finale. There, he stated that the term ‘race’ was one that had been used by one group of people as a way to justify the subjugation of another, and that there WERE no separate ‘races’ of people, only one HUMAN race. Which is EXACTLY what was implied by the revelation that we are all Hera’s descendants, and thus are all part CYLON. This means that the distinctions drawn by characters throughout the show regarding the differences between ‘humans’ and cylons are, in effect, more akin to our great-grandparents arguing and killing each other over just who is more human.
March 23rd, 2009 at 3:44 pm
I actually liked the last scene between Head Six and Head Baltar regarding how ‘he’ didn’t like to be called ‘God’; Even though it runs contrary to what Head Six had been telling Baltar since the first episode, this didn’t bother me so much because I felt that these ‘beings of light’ or ‘angels,’ whatever they in fact are, would use any term necessary to refer to this higher power in order to get their point across to whomever it might be that they’re supposed to guide, and it just so happened that Baltar would respond best to the notion of ‘God,’ and in a seemingly very Christian sense. I felt that the fact that it’s stated that ‘he’ disliked the name ‘God’ was particularly hilarious and genius, and it led me to wonder which name ‘he’ would prefer… Allah? Buddha? Cthulhu? Further, I thought that it was cool the many parallels between this show and a show that Moore had previously spent a lot of time with, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. My new favorite theory is that the ‘angels’ here are, in actuality, DS9’s ‘prophets’ (or ‘worm-hole aliens, if you prefer), who would also take on the form of people familiar to those whom with they were communicating.
March 23rd, 2009 at 3:46 pm
RCM – No, if you truly read my post you’ll see that I am saying it’s a mixed bag. And anything perceived as good as come with consequences. But I would argue that now is one of the best times to be alive.
March 23rd, 2009 at 3:47 pm
Finally, did anyone catch that Adama was about to PROPOSE to Rosslyn before she died?!? I mean, we’ve all known that she was going to pass on eventually since the mini-series, so I didn’t think that I would have been very moved by her death simply because we’ve had nearly five years to prepare for it… but damn, the fact that she dies mere moments before Adama was going to pop her the question at the site he intended to build their house on… that is just one very tragic, amazing piece of writing.
And, just for the record, I loved Cavil’s suicide for so many reasons, and thought that it fit so well while also being one of the top 5 OMG moments in the finale for me.
All in all, there’s about 500 moore pages of speculation and observations that I could attempt to post here, but I feel that hopefully others will have touched on those main points. So, at last, all I have to say here is this: Frakkin’ great show.
“So Say we all!”
March 23rd, 2009 at 4:04 pm
I cannot get this thought out of my head. The bird scene/Kara scene was in a way a tribute to one of the final moments of Forest Gump. Jenny, The love of Forest’s life came from a broken home, she led a troubled life in the end she turned herself around. Jenny would always say, “make me a bird so that I can fly,fly away. The scene of forest at the grave showed him praying/talking to jenny and when he turned from the grave all the birds flew out of the tree. That scene and the scene with kara/lee and the bird in lee’s apartment seemed alike and almost linked in concept and tone.
What was Kara? She was an instrument of God, similar to Moses. she lead them to the promised land,Earth. She was not allowed to enter Earth, her destiny was fulfilled and she was rewarded with whatever there is after her mortal life. her birth and destiny was known to god and maybe god in a dream showed her destiny to her father.
March 23rd, 2009 at 4:05 pm
@Shauna: You – among others – are absolutely correct about the Admiral’s “a million light years” comment – it was an exaggeration of the truth.
It is generally believed by astronomers that the Milky Way galaxy is approximately 100,000 light years in diameter. Still quite big by anyone’s reckoning.
When Adama said that I chuckled to myself because I could hear Kramer explaining to George and Jerry that “every proctologist’s story end’s in the same way…it was a million to one shot Doc…a million to one.”
It’s not really relevant, it was just funny to me at the time…I’ll bet you’ll hear that line in the back of your mind too the next time you watch the episode (sorry).
March 23rd, 2009 at 4:08 pm
Hey guys!
My friend sent me this link to a BSG drinking game the day of the finale but forgot to check my email.
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/virtual/showtracker/la-et-battlestar-galactica-drinking-game-pg,0,5314826.photogallery?index=1
I am going to rewatch the finale again tonight. Lets see how drunk I’ll get before the end of the episode. lol.
March 23rd, 2009 at 4:17 pm
John/Cavil votes with his head…
For those laughing at John/Cavil’s lead eating, remember this;
What happenned Before Will Happen Again.
Cavil decided that the cycle crashed and burned. So, he ate the lead and awaits the next cycle. The head-characters may wonder if the cycle will end but Cavil voted for the do-over.
March 23rd, 2009 at 4:23 pm
“May I be excused, my brain is full”…
The lessons to be learned:
1. Mankind, if you create a sentient being, don’t treat it like a slave.
2. Cylonkind, if you get a truce and are allowed to leave with resurrection then stay away.
3. Head-Characters, don’t show up on a planet and debate its future. There are no vacations. You are there for a reason.
4. Earth, the head-characters have arrived, be afraid, very afraid.
5. Kara, we already went over your lesson, don’t forget it.
6. BSG Fans, it was one hell of a frakin’ ride, don’t over analyze, especially avoid numbered lists.
March 23rd, 2009 at 4:47 pm
Pigeons, yes pigeons. Kara’s “vanishing” is a bit of a cop out, imo. But in the end it will make great fodder for various Conventions for years to come.The first hour was AMAZING. Feature film quality cgi. I was six inches from the screen the whole time. Just loved it.
“This one must be expensive!” — yes she was Julius, yes she was….
Bravo Ron! Bravo David! Bravo to the whole BSG family….Author! Author!
March 23rd, 2009 at 4:53 pm
Lee and bird – symbolism: So many of you inaccurately say that Lee couldn’t catch the bird, just like he couldn’t catch Kara, etc…..I don’t know what you thought you saw, but he never tried to catch that bird. He tried with the broom to get it out of his house. Then later, it left on its own.
Now, in terms of what THAT symbolizes…just stick with me, here….
I believe the bird incident happened right after he showed himself to be a bad person with a big ego who almost screwed his brother’s girlfriend. Him wanting to shoo the bird out symbolizes wanting to shoo that incident away, that bad part of himself away, Kara away.
Fastforward. Zak is dead. Kara is close by.
Kara then becomes someone important (as a friend and more) he wanted to be with. Lee NEVER chased Kara out of his life (even after he’d married Dee, he always loved her and wanted her, even after she married Sam).
In Maelstrom, however, everything changed.
I think at that point, Lee did again try to ’shoo’ her out of his life. You’ll remember he and Kara had that talk in the hangar bay and he said how happy he was with Dee, and Kara said “You’re my CAG and I’m your problem pilot. I guess that’s all I’ll ever be.” And it was true. He had almost shooed her from his life, shooed that egotistical immoral bad part of himself, shooed that table incident with Kara away.
Fastforward. Dee had dumped him and Kara came back from the dead. He still loved her. He still couldn’t shoo her away.
And then, when he was not anticipating it, she left his life for good, just like the bird left on its own.
I think that terrible behaviour on the table with Kara was a defining moment for Lee. That moment, almost screwing his brother’s girlfriend, was all about his ego. He strove to be different at almost all times afterward. His quest to do the right thing, to mutiny against Tigh before Roslin’s arrest, to stand up for everyone – including Baltar – at Baltar’s trial, etc. etc. was his way of being a good person, a person who put doing the right thing above ego, above his freedom, etc. He did falter again with Kara after they were both married. His ego came out swinging, wanting her to divorce Sam for him. Then came Maelstrom, again him being happy with Dee and letting Kara and his ego/bad side go. When he’d finally evolved, due to Dee’s death partly, and partly through accepting he may only ever be Kara’s friend…she left him and flew away for good.
So showing us that scene on the table with Kara, and with the bird afterwards, gives us so much insight into Lee. Like most very attractive and successful men, it shows us how he had to fight his ego and grow up. He came to realize that lusting after Kara was about his ego, not love but an illusion. Being her friend was about being her friend, true love. (She too realized this, by the way…but I’ll get to that some other time).
March 23rd, 2009 at 4:58 pm
rovshana Says: @Tootie “I loved the nod to Blade Runner with the asian woman on the big screen on the building.” Sorry Tooter, that was a robot. Pretty damn scary too.
No, that wasn’t a robot. As I said, I meant the big screen on the building in the cityscape (NY) at the end that featured an asian woman, as is featured in Blade Runner.
The robot that looked human did have a tinge of asian-look…but that’s a different part…and yes, I bloody well knew that was a robot!
Kaotic Theory says “Did those raptors jump from INSIDE galactica during the final assault? Wouldn’t that have torn the ship inside-out?” Yup, they tore the launch-bay apart – you can see that clearly after they jump. What a manoevre!
Sunflower says “Why did Cavil shoot himself?” He had already called off his cylon attack force. He knew he wasn’t getting resurrection technology after all. He chose to end his life before someone else got him. (in the original script, Tigh kills Cavil, but Dean Stockwell said a quick suicide suited the character better, and I agree)
kersh173 Says: “Finally, did anyone catch that Adama was about to PROPOSE to Rosslyn before she died?!? ”
No, they were already completely in love and committed to each other. It was just a symbolic gesture. That’s the point of their relationship, that they knew they meant everything to each other.
March 23rd, 2009 at 5:07 pm
The Chief…
Broke up with Boomer once he realized that people who were covering for them to meet illicitly were suffering serious consequences. Realized when she died, that she was still a person, that she hadn’t meant to shoot Adama…
He marries Cally. She is murdered.
He is bitter. Wants Boomer back.
She comes back, plays him, BUT HE IS THE ONE who murders an Eight so that Boomer can live. HE IS THE ONE who decides that her life is worth more than another’s. That’s the key. That was his ruination.
When he finds out Tory killed Cally, he kills her, but he is just as deserving of the same death.
If this were fair, the others (Tory, Sam, Ellen and Tigh) when they all put their hands in Sam’s tub, would have also seen that Tyrel murdered an Eight….Ellen for one, would have held him to task for that. Especially since that led to Hera’s kidnapping and the very risky rescue operation they were all engaged in.
He’s the ultimate hypocrite to have murdered Tory when he himself murdered an Eight to free Boomer.
Chief was not a fool to have trusted Boomer. She was a victim of her programming when she shot Adama. Chief was a fool, however, to decide that her life was worth more than someone else’s. That is what he is paying for, in his self-imposed exile on his island.
If Tory deserves death, so does he.
March 23rd, 2009 at 5:18 pm
Hi folks. I became a fan of BSG quiet late in the series…season 3 actually. Since then I went about ardently purchasing all the previous seasons and going through each of them with the due diligence of any SF fan. I must mention that BSGcast.com is one of the best online resources that I have ever found for an epic series like BSG. Thank you, BSGcast.com!
My only comment about the latter part of the series, especially the concluding parts of the final season, is that I feel that the BSG series seem to have lost some of their original writers. Most probably in the writers strike of 2008! Although I do totally agree with Ron & David that a great story is one that has a definitive ending, I do also feel that this final series seems to have rushed towards the ending. Its almost like stuffing a king-sized comforter into a carry-on sized duffel bag: there is almost no way that one could do it in a refined manner. The whole BattleStar Galactica story is an epic in proportions and I feel the second part of season four, seemed obsessed with crashing this great story into the wall to end it! From ‘Revelations’ to ‘Daybreak’ there are just too many loose-ends that are not tied down well enough. Well, maybe….this now leaves enough foothold to begin a new set of SF originals!
In any case, this has been a great journey and well worth it. Thanks to all the cast and crew of BSG, the SCI-FI Channel, the great online community of BSGcast.com and all the worldwide fans of Battlestar Galactica. Good hunting, now and always!
March 23rd, 2009 at 5:23 pm
First of m+n im pretty sure its the same fraking universe.Makes more sense that way. The 12 colonies were not in the future they were 150,000 years in the past. That makes it so that the cunturions are the ones in the ufos coming to spy on us.God is the same thing as the “force” in star wars.
Also Adama said this planet was one million light years away. Meaning that the 12 colonies took place along time ago in a galaxy far far away. The 12 colonies in tos were also in another galaxy.Could this explain why there are humans in the star wars galaxy?Also hope lucas doesnt find out that the new BSG takes place in a galaxy far far away. He sued the tos producers because of that and also just for using his laser effects.
Theoretically the jump drive can jump anywhere in the universe as long as it has the right coordinates. The coordinates are extremely difficult to calculate without references like the zodiac star map.
To quote han solo from star wars.
“Traveling through hyperspace ain’t like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star, or bounce too close to a supernova and that’d end your trip real quick, wouldn’t it?”
March 23rd, 2009 at 5:25 pm
I don’t see where time travel or alternate universes need be introduced. The show has avoided them up to this point and there is little need to introduce them now. The RTF followed a trail of clues to one planet that the 13th Tribe called Earth, which was nuked 2000 yrs pre show in a Cylon civil war. That planet was NOT the one shown at the end of S3 (remember the Home of the 13th never was shown with recognizable continents). Then the RTF was lead to a second blue planet by the divinely inspired team of Hera and the Returned Starbuck; that second planet being the one we are on. The RTF named it Earth because Earth had been their goal for so long, why not use the name again (and it would help blank out the memories of that nuked disaster of a world). And from the final reveal of 150K years later where Virtual Six and Virtual Baltar are strolling around Times Square, we are confirmed that the RTF arrived on Earth 150K years ago when the Virtuals say Mitochondrial Eve was Hera (M.E. died after having several children so Hera lived for a while). No time travel, no parallel universes.
March 23rd, 2009 at 5:26 pm
Did anyone also notice how the centurion “uniforms” looked like the ones from the star trek era movie uniforms?
March 23rd, 2009 at 5:30 pm
bopone. Your absolutely right. No time traveling or parallel universes. Just alien humans evolving on a planet in a galaxy far far away. Take that george fraking lucas!
March 23rd, 2009 at 5:34 pm
Had to post this.
There are those who believe that life here began out there, far across the universe, with tribes of humans who may have been the forefathers of the Egyptians, or the Toltecs, or the Mayans. That they may have been the architects of the great pyramids, or the lost civilizations of Lemuria or Atlantis. Some believe that there may yet be brothers of man who even now fight to survive somewhere beyond the heavens…
March 23rd, 2009 at 5:59 pm
Hey if you guys like BSG music checkout: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iP8Mhriof0
You can go to other performances of Bears Concert there too….including All Along the Watchtower. It’s good stuff!
March 23rd, 2009 at 6:18 pm
@ Tootie Says:
“kersh173 Says: “Finally, did anyone catch that Adama was about to PROPOSE to Rosslyn before she died?!? ”
No, they were already completely in love and committed to each other. It was just a symbolic gesture. That’s the point of their relationship, that they knew they meant everything to each other.”
-Actually, I’m pretty sure that, right after Adama noticed that Rosslyn had passed on, he reached into his pocket, pulled out a ring and slipped on her finger. I think that you’re right about them having already been completely in love and knowing that they meant the world to each other, but I still think that he actually meant to give her the ring & purpose to her before she died as a last farewell. I mean, I just don’t see the point in giving her a ring after she’s died if Adama already knows how much he means to her, I think his intention was to show her, one last time, what she meant to him, but she passed away mere minutes too soon.
March 23rd, 2009 at 6:21 pm
I loved the series BSG, not the last hour so much.
I loved Adama moving the tubes out of his spot in the CIC.
I loved the rescue of Hera.
I loved where Baltar and Caprica realize they could both see the head people
I loved when the men where lying on their stomachs where Adama points out Baltar’s lack of humor
Otherwise, I couldn’t put my finger on it at the time but something about it just kept bugging me.
Finally it occurred to me.
It seems that the only Female leads that get to have a happy ending are those that are created with a perfect body (the Cylons). Athena, Six and Sharon get the happy endings with the men they truly love. While the human females either shot themselves in the head, Die from cancer, or become an Angel never to be with the man she truly loves.
So much for strong females and trying to bring in a female audience to Sci-Fi.
Ron just confirmed what we (females) already knew, only robotic, and potentially obedient perfect women are worthy of surviving and loving.
Strong human women are not allowed! What message is that sending my niece’s and other young women. Beauty above all?
I’m not a bitter woman, I have a husband that loves me and our son whom I adore. But yet again despite all the progress Ron and David thought they were making with female characters in Sci-fi whether consciously or unconsciously. The old Male/female tune played and the human female role models that could have been, weren’t!
PS: Thank you Matt and Nat for all the hard work you have put into this. I’ve loved every minute with the two of you.
Also I appreciated reading all the well thought out intelligent theroies and speculation on this forum. Your polite disagreements and banter have made for an enjoyable experience. Thank you all.
March 23rd, 2009 at 6:28 pm
I meant to say ‘Athena, Six and Ellen get the happy endings’
Oops!
March 23rd, 2009 at 7:00 pm
Remember the ‘humans” wernt really human. Well they were human but a different type of human.The only earth human version was hera. I think that qualifies as a pretty good strong role and happy ending for a “human” female.
I also always knew I was part robot. I am constantly calculating the outcome of situations.My batteries always run down too fast and I need to constantly recharge.I keep getting damn error messages in my head.And I hate humans.
March 23rd, 2009 at 7:05 pm
I agree with no alternate universes or time travel. BSG took place 130,000 years ago. The arguement over the continents being different has no merit with me because with the slow movement, we are only talking about five, maybe six miles at the most. I also think that the million light years is just a figure of speech, like someone saying a milliam things have gone wrong, etc. Our galaxy in 100,000 light years in diameter and I can not see the Galactica jumping that far.
As for the genitics, as the Hera tribe spreads out, people will mate and eventually very distant cousins will marry so it is possible for the entire human race to be descended from “eve.” It does make for a good story.
As for the Head characters, I liken them more to a Q like character, an immortal being that can project itself into others minds. One of these beings nust have taken Kara and resurected a new body and placed the old one on the first earth.
It was a great story and Fridays will never be the same. I look forward to “The Plan” and hope that the prequal is not as bad as others have been.
March 23rd, 2009 at 7:06 pm
Did anyone notice the red stripes on the rebel centurions? The first thing I thought of were the invasion stripes painted on aircraft immediately before the D-Day invasion. Given Ron’s love of military history, I strongly suspect that is where he got the idea from.
Cavil’s suicide reminded me of Hitler’s suicide at the end of WWII. Both refused to be taken alive.
Did you notice how the landing bays were flexing after the Last Jump?! That is probably what broke her back – too much stress. I wonder if the ship would have survived if the pods had been retracted.
In other comments, I wrote on the parallels between the Galactica and the USS Lexington (CV-2). This last episode continues that parallel. Both Gray Ladies were scuttled to prevent capture. Both ships were pivital in crutial battles, though it cost them their lives. The Lady Lex was the first carrier lost by the US during WWII. The Galactica was the last carrier lost by the 12 colonies. Both were gallant ladies. (I know that we have been calling the Galactica the Gray Lady. Was that phrase ever used in the series to describe the ship? The other nickname for the Lady Lex was also the Gray Lady.)
The open note in the score that Hera gave Kara, and that she typed into the FTL computer, ended with a whold note. The whole note meant hold – as in this is where you are going.
@Zakray: Interesting spin I hadn’t thought of. Part of me still sees through my “old eyes” (pre transition) and didn’t pick up on your take until after you said it. Old habits can be hard to break.
@BSGCast. I finally had a chance to listen to your video. (Videos are blocked from my teacher’s account and my home PC has crashed big time.) I have to strongly disagree with you that the ship went back in time or jumped to a new dimension. If they had, the Fleet would never have been able to follow. The jump coordinates were just within the range of the Gray Lady. Plus, they sent Raptors back to guide the Fleet to Earth 2.0. That would have been impossible if the ship had done a dimentional or time jump.
March 23rd, 2009 at 7:37 pm
Shauna. I thought the stripes looked somewhat like the star trek movie era uniforms, Mabey thats what the star trek ones are based on to.Comish I think you mean 150,000 years not 130,000.Also the angels are indeed alot like the Q. Though I think there more of a cross between the Q,the prophets from DS9, and the beings of lights from the original.All 3 of those races were angelic like.
March 23rd, 2009 at 8:25 pm
to touch on what I commented on earlier about the angle of the Galactica being the ‘dying leader’. I left out how Baltar and Head Six put particular emphasis on the ‘Vipers’ during Hand of God.
To interpret the Vipers literally by their name lends itself to the Galactica being seen as more than just a ship.
Still, I don’t think that RDM really meant for the audience to read THAT much into it. lol. Laura saw snakes and in the end, she died. End of Line.
March 23rd, 2009 at 8:54 pm
@zakray Now go bake me a cake!
March 23rd, 2009 at 9:31 pm
I think we have to translate Adama’s reference of “one million light years away” as anecdotal – it would rightly be interpreted by those listening to him as “ridiculously far away” instead of a literal measure of distance.
Adama: How is that possible? Human beings – naturally evolved – on a planet one million light years away. The odds are…
Baltar: Astronomical, yes.
As I mentioned before, the Milky Way galaxy has a diameter of only one tenth that distance (100,000 light years). Additionally, if they did indeed originate from another galaxy – like TOS – the Andromeda Galaxy is our next closest galactic neighbor and it is approximately 2.5 million light years distant. 1 million light years would literally put the Twelve Colonies in the middle of nowhere and not part of ANY galaxy.
However you interpret Adama’s line, the presence of naturally evolved humaniod life on Earth was “a million to one shot Doc, a million to one.”
I better stop now, my geek is really showing…
March 23rd, 2009 at 9:42 pm
When they showed the sun setting/rising over africa it made me instantly think of the lion king. They should have used the circle of life song from LK instead of all along the watchtower. Its about the cycle of birth life and death and fits well with all of this has happened before.I wonder if RDM was inspired by it. He was inspired by peter pan so why not the lion king to? The lines There’s more to see than can ever be seen
More to do than can ever be done sounds alot like when lee said he wanted to climb mountains and explore.
From the day we arrive on the planet
And blinking, step into the sun
There’s more to see than can ever be seen
More to do than can ever be done
There’s far too much to take in here
More to find than can ever be found
But the sun rolling high
Through the sapphire sky
Keeps great and small on the endless round
It’s the Circle of Life
And it moves us all
Through despair and hope
Through faith and love
Till we find our place
On the path unwinding
In the Circle
The Circle of Life
It’s the Circle of Life
And it moves us all
Through despair and hope
Through faith and love
Till we find our place
On the path unwinding
In the Circle
The Circle of Life
Doesnt that sound like it fits perfectly with the end of the episode?Lets get to work making that music vid and putting it on youtube people!
March 23rd, 2009 at 9:43 pm
TIberious there are a number of small dwarf galaxies between here and Andromeda.
March 23rd, 2009 at 10:44 pm
I just want to thank Matt and Natt for their commentaries after each episode. I stumbled on to them randomly one night and have been watching them ever since. You guys have clarified several things for me throughout the series, and made me think about characters in ways which I never would have before.
I am truly going to miss this series. I am new to the scifi channel, and started to watch BSG in a similar way in which I stumbled on BSGCast. I know that the final episode and 4th season was not perfect, by any means, but I care too much for the show to point out any flaws.
There were so many amazing parts of this final episode, I just want to mention my favorite. The moment when Starbuck was placed in the situation of inputing the jump coordinates was completely amazing. I had chills during that entire sequence, both from my realization of what was happening with the Watchtower, and the fantastic work of the editing team. When I first heard All Along the Watchtower during the finale of season 3, I have to admit I thought it was a little lame. But the way in which Moore et al used the piece throughout this season with the culmination at the end was frakking awesome. Finding a way to use the opera house visions that we had been seeing for long time was also brilliant. I wasn’t sure how he was going to play that, but it worked well. And maybe it’s just me, but I didn’t see it coming until the characters themselves saw it. My jaw dropped and choice expletives were used.
Over the past 4 years, this show has given me so much, memories that I will never leave me. My friends always knew that on Friday nights, no matter what I was doing, I had to get home to watch BSG. I never felt right waiting and watching it online a week later. I also can’t believe that my vocabulary has changed solely because of it. I find ways to use phrases like So say we all, Frak, and Oh my Gods whenever I can, even if noone knows what the hell I’m talking about.
Something extraordinary has happened, and will never be forgotten.
March 23rd, 2009 at 10:58 pm
Imagine if instead of Kara just disappearing after being an angel, she went off with Sam instead? Maybe planning on “til death do us part?” But instead of just getting on a ship, she climbs into her magical Viper and wants to follow the Fleet ships with that. Then they go on doing all of the little goodbyes, and after Adama’s final speech and the oh-so-awesome Passacglia, we pan back to Kara flying with the fleet. As they get close to the Sun, Starbuck doesn’t burn up like everyone else. Instead, she get enveloped in some sort of white light and ends up at the Ionian Nebula. There she finds Lee in a Viper and says “Its going to be ok. I’ve been to Earth. I know where it is and I’m going to take us there.”
I think I’m just really looking for some way to tie in the whole multiple Kara’s thing. Its not that I don’t have a problem with Kara finding her body, but how the hell did it honestly end up on Revelations Earth? I was really hoping atleast something like that would be answered.
March 23rd, 2009 at 11:01 pm
Also, I really dug Cavil just outright shooting himself, but what if he was standing next to the Five while the Fours and Fives were still on the bottom of the CIC? Then, after Tory was killed, instead of Cavil shooting himself, Ellen pushes him off the balcony?
March 23rd, 2009 at 11:43 pm
The galaxy wide view that they showed at the beginning of “Daybreak part one” had Hera’s star drawing in it.
March 24th, 2009 at 1:21 am
Was I the only one hoping that one of the marines would shoot Galen so that Tory could have lived? It seems to me that most people felt that Tory “had it coming to her”, but I always thought she was justified in her actions. Cally was not only going to kill herself, but Nicky as well, who at that time was thought to be a half-Cylon child. Tory had to protect the child, so she had to sort of talk Cally down, but Tory couldn’t let Cally live because she would expose the Final Five. Tory, as usual, did what had to be done. I wouldn’t call what Tory did murder, more like “assisted suicide”.
March 24th, 2009 at 4:10 am
Kirsty Says: “One more thing that urked me a little…. Where the Frak was Xena.. I mean D’anna???? Did she seriously stay on the Old earth? She had a destiny as well. Was it really to spend the rest of her life on Old Earth?”
Caprica Says: Yes, she stayed on the old Earth. She had lost faith. She was not the one with the true destiny. She was on a messianic quest and desired forbidden knowledge, but in the Eye of Jupiter or the episode that followed it, Head Six, an angel, tells Baltar that he was the chosen one, not her. She was not the one for whom the message was meant. She tried to steal Baltar’s destiny, but he was the chosen one.
I’m not talking about her quest to see the faces of the final five (which weren’t really forbidden, Cavel called it a messianic quest because he didn’t want her to find out who the final 5 were and therefore find out his dirty secret. It was simply a firewall put in the minds of the other 6 models by Cavel so that no one would seek the final 5 out) I believe she was destined to see the 5. But what I’m really referring too was when the oracle in her dream said she would hold Hera in her arm and know what true love really is. She did find hera on New Caprica but did she ever experience true love? It seems like they just decided to drop D’anna’s story line as opposed to getting closure on it.
March 24th, 2009 at 5:28 am
Kirsty Says: “But what I’m really referring too was when the oracle in her dream said she would hold Hera in her arm and know what true love really is. She did find hera on New Caprica but did she ever experience true love? It seems like they just decided to drop D’anna’s story line as opposed to getting closure on it.”
She already experienced that on New Caprica itself. When the fleet escaped, D’Anna found Hera amidst the humans who had not survived (or rather by her now dead adoptive mother) and held Hera there. At the end, Baltar’s about to kill her, but Caprica Six stops him, saying “Don’t. She won’t detonate the nukes now.” What that implied was that D’Anna finally felt true love (for the child) as she held Hera.
@Tootie: As for Gaylen… I don’t think he’s a hypocrite. If anything, he gave himself out after he found out Boomer had kidnapped Hera. I’m pretty sure he told his whole story, including framing another Eight by rendering her uncountious and switching both in the brig. I don’t think he killed the other Eight. Once she woke up, nobody would believe it’s not Boomer, and everyone would believe she’s putting on a show to get sympathy. Why else would he have ended up in the Brig? If he had said nothing, he would have been walking around freely. It was simply badly executed and should have been made more obvious.
But the Chief had nothing to hide in the end.
I think he really did love Cally. While everyone came clean about what they did, Tory never even so much as mentionned anything about Cally’s death. I think the Chief wouldn’t have been so inclined to kill her if she had told the truth from the get go instead of finding out this way. Frankly, I felt she deserved it.
March 24th, 2009 at 5:51 am
Sorry for the double post, but after watching the BSG ending… I found this: http://chioky.deviantart.com/journal/23842318/
This is creepy enough as it is, but this is one is the closest to reality they’ve got.. and may very well be sold… NEXT YEAR.
“The unit was developed by a governmental robotics lab, under the auspices of the National Institute of Advanced Science and Technology (AIST). It is 158cm tall and weighs 43kg, being capable of operating on battery power for 20 minutes. Many raised concerns over the unit having fallen into the “uncanny valley”, the point at which the flaws in an artificial human become disquieting due to its imperfectly close resemblance to an actual human.
It’s name is “HRP-4C”
It can actually walk properly
It can actually talk properly
It might be sold next year
It has a battery life of 20 minutes
It is 158cm tall and weighs 43kg
It can transform its right arm into a Giga Drill <— I think that one’s a joke from the poster
The japanese, they have finnaly done it, they made a chobits, well close enough to one as we will get so far in this modern day and age. However this robot can actually walk, walking has been one of the most difficult challenges for robotics engineers since like, for ever. It might take a new born baby a year to walk, but it takes decades to program a robot to properly walk. Talking is easy, talking is a software program like Microsoft Sam speaker. Also it might go mass production in the next year being commercially sold, but it does not specify a price. I think these androids cost as much as a mortgage on a house, several hundreds of thousands to be precise.”
March 24th, 2009 at 7:26 am
I just noticed something interesting on viewing the youtube clip of kara and her father playing the song on the piano. The position of her right arm was right against her fathers right arm. The left arm is the arm that has the wing tatoo. The position of her arm against her fathers arm would have created a set of wings if her father had the same tatoo as anders.
The wings of an angel any one…
March 24th, 2009 at 7:44 am
Ok, I was just discussing the whole “All has happened before, and will happen again” theme with my friend, and co-fan, and an idea emerged that may or may not have been discussed before on this forum. I’ll be honest, I havn’t read all the comments for every posting and even now for this episode there is over 350 comments as I speak. So, I guess its been mentioned before but please bear with me.
With ressurection technology taken away from the humanoid cylons outside of the fleet, it is fair to assume they die out eventually – whether this is due to another civil war amoungst themselves or simply time, it is inevitable. In the wake of the nuclear holocaust in the 12 colonies, human life eventually begins again – be it survivors, or life from the beginning once more, they will eventually reach another technologically advanced, decadent state in their history. It is more likely life began on Kobol once more and then subsequently moved to the colonies to fill in some historic details that will become obvious soon.
Meanwhile, the newly freed centurians left over from the fleet are free to explore the universe. They may even encounter the older centurian models. What could happen here is obviously, like most of this theory, speculation – maybe they coexist peacefully, but given the trend its more likey that there will be war, an I’m betting the older models win out.
Why?
Well, for all of these speculated events to happen, a significant amount of time would need to have passed, particulary for the advancement of a new human race on the colonies. Say, maybe 150,000 years. Now que the old Battlestar Galactica series. The older centurian models attack the colonies and are percieved as aliens as originally portrayed since nobody would have seen them before. But the centurians would have memory of humans and would see them as a threat.
There is a repeat of everything, whether it be the creation of the colonies of Kobol, cylon/human war or cylon civil war. Whats more, an Adama will lead the fleet, a Baltar will screw things up for them. Its all pre-ordained destiny. Starbuck this time however has changed sex. “All has happened before, and will happen again”!
Now, this is obviously all very speculative, and should be treated as such. But it would be interesting to know your views all the same and if you may be able to fit any further aspects into this theory.
Good Hunting!
T.
March 24th, 2009 at 8:47 am
3 words. Terminator bsg sequel.
March 24th, 2009 at 8:51 am
okay hve just watched BSGCAST. may i say the show is saying……
1) earth was named by what earth the dream of what (clyon) earth going to be.
2) in the second season they was transported to our earth not the cylon earth.
3) it is saying that we humans are hybrids of cylons, twelve colonies, the earthlings and this story of BSG started 150, 000 years ago
4) those humans are in fact the 13th tribe of humanity not the cylon earth.
5) gods or god “plan” was to stop the cycle started on kobol (or a thought is before kobel).
6) it might be that we has humans start the cycle again with robots and has a big joke that we are haft robot has will.
7) there are those who believe that life here began out there, far across the universe, with tribes of humans who may have been the forefathers of the Egyptians, or the Toltecs, or the Mayans. That they may have been the architects of the great pyramids, or the lost civilizations of Lemuria or Atlantis and anwsearing that question to the old show.
the scene with apollo and the pigeon was a sign to use the views of freedom and before anyone put bullets throught that theory pigeon and doves are part of Columbidae family.
this was brilliant episode and but BSG to bed has a sci-fi sires.
also these are the FTL cordis that starbuck typed in the FTL drive……1123, 6536, 5321 the might be the cordantis in the 3 dimensions like 1123 is width, 6536 is length and 5321 is depth or they are Robert G. Moore mobile (cell) number
also did anyone see Robert G. Moore at the end reading the magazine….. BSGCAST please let me win the alienware game software please!!!!!!!!!
March 24th, 2009 at 9:00 am
Zakray says: “It seems that the only female leads that get to have a happy ending are those that are created with a perfect body (the Cylons). Athena, Six and Ellen get the happy endings with the men they truly love. While the human females either shot themselves in the head, die from cancer, or become an Angel never to be with the man she truly loves.
So much for strong females and trying to bring in a female audience to Sci-Fi.
Ron just confirmed what we (females) already knew, only robotic, and potentially obedient perfect women are worthy of surviving and loving. Strong human women are not allowed! What message is that sending my nieces and other young women. Beauty above all?”
WOW! YIKES! – This is among the silliest and most inaccurate BSGcast posts I’ve read (and that’s saying a lot, and yes I am a young woman). Pull your head out of your ***, and grow up. How about some analysis?
First of all, Kara, Roslin, Cally, Kendra Shaw, Cain, Racetrack, Seelix, Dee etc. seemed to have just as nice physical bodies as the cylon female characters. To me, anyway! I don’t know how you can say with any credibility that Tricia Helfer or Lucy Lawless or Grace Park or Kate Vernon are any more beautiful or have ‘better’ bodies than Katee Sackhoff, Mary McDonnell, Nicky Clyne, Michelle Forbes, Kandyse McClure, etc. They are ALL BEAUTIFUL WOMEN WITH HOT BODIES!
Secondly, Kara and Roslin, at least, did get a happy ending. Kara chose to marry Sam. I believe she loved both Lee and Sam. Kara came back, not just to show them the way to Earth, but to make up to Sam for her awful behaviour. She did that, and loved him until the end. She was with him as soon as she disappeared and he went into the sun. Roslin ended up happy with the man she loved. Cally was screwed over in terms of being murdered and Dee chose to die (couldn’t overcome her despair), yes. Cain was murdered. Kendra gave her life to complete her mission.
Cylon females had their share of misery and miserable endings. They also got murdered (Boomer, Natalie, Boomer again, Ellen, Tory). D’Anna chose to die alone of despair on cinder-Earth. Gina committed suicide with the nuke above New Caprica. A Six at the end gave her life to save others fixing the ship. Yes, Athena, Ellen and Caprica ended up with their men and happy. So what?
I don’t know about you, but I considered all these characters women, not cylon women and human women. There was no difference in terms of their ‘humanity’. They wanted the same things, made choices, had to find their own way. Furthermore, I considered them all people! Along with the men!
How can you suggest the deaths of Cally, Kara, Roslin, Kendra, Cain, Tory or Dee diminish their strength? They were extremely strong characters that I would exalt any girl or teenaged woman to emulate (except their evil bits of course – the violence of Cain, Kendra, Kara, Cally, Kara’s adulterous behaviour, – even Roslin trying to steal the election). I could go on and on about the leadership and guts and determination and bravery these women showed…
Now, let’s look at the men cylons vs. men humans, which you (in your silly ranting) didn’t do. CYLONS: Tigh ended up happy. Tyrel ended up alone, betrayed and bitter, sick of people. Cavil offed himself. Doral and Simon all murdered. Sam ended up with Kara’s love, a hero. Leoben ended up on new Earth, looking forward to hitting on everyone, no doubt. HUMANS: Lee ended up ALONE. Kara chose Sam over him before and after she died, and Dee chose to end her life rather than be with him. Adama ended up alone, losing the two great loves of his life. Helo ended up extremely happy. Baltar as well!
“Ron just confirmed what we (females) already knew, only robotic, and potentially obedient perfect women are worthy of surviving and loving.”
Yah, I already knew that, lady (SARCASM). Oh, and yah, Caprica, Ellen, D’Anna, Tory, Sharon and Athena were so robotic and obedient. Whatever. Oh, and ya, they were the only ones worthy of survival and being loved. Whatever, again.
Don’t speak for us females, please and thank you.
“Strong human women are not allowed! What message is that sending my niece’s and other young women. Beauty above all?”
Oh, and Roslin, Kendra, Cain, Cally, Dee, female marines and pilots etc. were not allowed? THEY WERE EQUAL TO MEN IN ALL WAYS IN RDM’s BSG UNIVERSE LADY! THEY WERE LEADERS, as much as Adama, Tigh, Lee, Baltar, etc.
Again, and they weren’t beautiful? As beautiful as Ellen, Caprica, D’Anna and Athena? Whatever, lady.
I suggest you let your nieces read this post. I hope I have given you some food for thought. Choose to be bitter about how the human females ended up if you wish…I think a little more objective analysis of the big picture is in order before you go down that road!
So say we all?
March 24th, 2009 at 9:14 am
Centurion005: Thanks for out-geeking me with white dwarf galaxies!
And yes, you are correct, there are multiple known objects, including: dwarf galaxies, star clusters, globular clusters and a whole manner of other celestial formations orbiting the Milky Way as part of the galactic halo.
Most of them – to my knowledge – are well within 1 million light years of the Milky Way. For example, Canis Major – the closest dwarf galaxy – is only about 25,000 light years away from the edge of the Milky Way.
However, I am not an astronomer, and I certainly don’t keep track of star formations surrounding the Milky Way, so I cannot rule out the possibility that such a galaxy does indeed exist and your point is well taken.
Still, I prefer to think of it as a figure of speech – but Kramer said it best (IMHO)…
As always, thanks for the insight! You never disappoint!
March 24th, 2009 at 9:57 am
It may be more like half a million lightyears and adama just rounded it to a million. When baltar said “this is about the survival of the human race, not some get together with the natives” the last part reminded like something they would say on star trek. Not the survival part but the get together with the natives part. I wish that they had cottle say something like this. “Im a doctor not a gods damn soldier”.
March 24th, 2009 at 10:03 am
The only thing (theory) I had correct was that Baltar would join Caprica Six on the Galactica because he truely loved her.
Win some….
I actually liked that it didn’t go into the LOK / BOL stuff. That would be like throwing in a giant squid at the end of the movie. Great writing. Great acting. Great Music. Great BSG. You will never be forgotten.
Keep The Statue
March 24th, 2009 at 10:14 am
@KeepTheStatue: What’s wrong with a giant squid at the end of a movie? lol
To complainers (sending this message on various forums): Get over it. It’s done. Stop saying “God did it.” What did he do? Some of the answers were subtle, and forbid anyone from thinking for themselves. So when all is said and done, everything was answered and tied up just fine. Call me a “fanboy” for defending the show, it just doesn’t prove your point that it was horrible. It had action. It had closure. It had death. It had humor. It had an ending that was, by far, the only end you can give it given what the show did throughout the years. God /s was/were mentioned throughout the show, at least once per episode. Head-Six has been saying that she was an episode for the longest time. Why did you still watch after “Hand of God”? Tell me what God did? The angels gave the visions. The angels brought back Kara, her being a physical angel. Now I call them angels but I mean something higher. Baltar even says “You know he doesn’t like that name. Oh, sorry my mistake.” What does that mean? That it is not god maybe? Or would it mean something else.
Oh, and did anyone think of “Renegade” by Styx when Cavil shot himself. He knew that “the jig was up” and boom. For once he was greatly outnumbered.
I’ll return, as will A starbuck.
-Mario
March 24th, 2009 at 10:40 am
if gaius is “god”
is six suppossed to be “Lilith”?
March 24th, 2009 at 10:51 am
@ Mario:
I wasn’t bothered by their “lack of answers.” There were a number of FUNDAMENTAL FAILIURES that I found nearly ruined the second half of Daybreak II (and I absolutely love this show btw):
-The Opera House was anticlimactic and made absolutely no sense. By the time Hera made it to Baltar and Six, she was in zero danger. There was no reason for them to take her and seal the door behind them, no reason to take her to the CIC and put her in Cavil’s grasp. It just felt like an “oh, crap, the opera house…well, let’s just whip this up!” deal. After THREE SEASONS of repeated teasing, you would think it would have had a lot more significance and complexity than “here’s the CIC LOL!”
-I hate preachy storytelling. Thematic writing, even subtle preaching is ok…but RDM kinda went “HEY! *bash *bash *bash HERE”S MY MESSAGE WATCH ME PREACH!” The man has no subtlety. The 150,000 years later bit was terrible. He should have written in the “you know he doesn’t like that name” line into the last few minutes on prehistoric Earth and ended with Adama. That robot montage was awful and a terrible last scene for the series.
-On top of that, the “man becomes clever instead of wise” idea in regards to technology was basically lifted from The Twilight Zone in the first place, so I can’t even give him credit for a good, origional statement.
-You have to admit that sending the fleet into the sun was really pretty lame. The writers hands were tied, I know, but all the same it was kinda dumb.
Now don’t get me wrong. As always, the score was the best I’ve ever heard on television, and the first half of part II was excellent! I just wish RDM hadn’t butchered the second half so.
March 24th, 2009 at 11:07 am
First of all when kara was shown at the end she was a ghost or spirit not an angel. She died with her husband wen they literally flew into the sun.Ive said this before but ill say it again. The pigeon represents the phoenix which in greek mythiology was a bird that always died again in fire but was reborn from the ashes. Or simply put the new coming from the destruction of the old.Starbuck is like the pigeon/phoenix because of the new starbuck from tos.
March 24th, 2009 at 11:10 am
Also starbuck dieing from the fires of the sun is another link to the phoenix because the bird always died in fire.
March 24th, 2009 at 11:14 am
Those HRP-4C look just like number 8s. When will they build a frakible version?lol.
March 24th, 2009 at 11:19 am
@Brian:
I understand where you are coming from with your ideas. To each our own opinion. The 150,000 years is when we, in our reality, have found the earliest remains of homo sapien sapien (us), which does not mean we weren’t here earlier just earliest find. I personally liked the ending with the robots because it is kind of scary to see how life like (especially that one girl one) was and yeah, that part wasn’t so subtle but I think that’s the point. Also, there is basically no original idea in the world, so I accepted that fact a long time ago. Hell, “this has happened before and will all happen again” was from Peter Pan (says RDM). Sending the fleet into the sun with that music was an ode to the original. I personally liked the Opera House. She was in danger. They knew the bad-cylons were on the ship and she needed to be safe, they are not going to let her die. So they followed her from the vision they had long ago. I think I stated this in my first comment on this page somewhere. Anyways, everyone seems to be split on this episode, but I personally loved it.
-Mario
March 24th, 2009 at 11:34 am
BALTAR!
RDM is so frakkin awesome for one reason…
I hated Baltar the entire series, with a passion, until the very last scene, when he cried. Then all of a sudden I loved the guy.
Anyone who can write that kind of transformation in ONE scene. OMG! And it was so genuine. You couldn’t help but say awwww…
I felt like such a whimp because I shed a tear (maybe two) in like three scenes during the finale. When Galactica flew off to die, when Adama left… hugging Lee, and Ellen said “just be together” to Tigh. And I hated Ellen until that moment also.
Kudos to the writers AND actors… Kudos.
To Galactica… So say we all
March 24th, 2009 at 11:37 am
Kara was the Phoenix, Kara was Galactica.
March 24th, 2009 at 11:45 am
What an amazing episode.
A lot has been posted above, and I’ve tried to read it all, but may have missed what I’m about to say.
A flaw: Didn’t Gaeta check the star allignments from the Kobol Planetarium (when the arrow was returned) against the constellation layout around Cylon Earth (Earth 1 – from Revelations)? Earth 1 and 2 are definitely different planets (existing in the same universe and time frame, just nowhere near each other), but this minor detail confuses me a little.
Otherwise, I have very few complaints about the episode. It was the perfect ending.
March 24th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
Here is my award winning comment:
This show sucked. Kara Thrace/Starbuck just disappearing is an admission of total failure by the writers that they had lost control of the continuity and arc of that character. That is what happens when you make stuff up as you go along. There was never a plan.
March 24th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
Poor Lee, but does this mean he is ADAM (a)…. muhahaha
March 24th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
@Paul: stick to some books if you want a plan…if plans are made, they are usually broken anyways…. Again I think this is a subtle way of saying she’s a physical angel.
Idk why people are so angry at this ending. Everyone wanted something different, go ahead and write fan fiction of the ending you wanted and stop complaining. It’s old already.
-Mario
P.S. My award winning comment…part four….
March 24th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
I’m a bit confused by parts of the review. Laura flat out says it’s not the same Earth, to which Adama responds “Earth is an idea.” So it’s not Earth – Earth was the destroyed planet they found mid-season, but they found this new home and called it Earth because it was the paradise they’d been looking for.
What made me sad is how all of them went off alone to die. I understand they were tired of crowded conditions, but a lot characters went off just by themselves to die totally alone. Adama, Apollo, Tyrol (which reminds me, since the Final Five are thousands of years old does that mean they are immortal, or they just ressurected from time to time when they got old on their trip from Earth to the colonies?)
Also – Head Baltar and Head Six. Head Six always told Baltar (back in season 2 anyway) it was THEIR child that would be important. The Opera House vision didn’t amount to a whole lot, except it Baltar and Caprica were finally brought back together and it was the moment where things were largely resolved.
On Earth, Baltar and Caprica went off alone together – did they not have any kids? Or is it appropriate that it was Head Baltar and Head Six, thousands of years later, were talking about the orginal mitochondrial Eve who had a human father and a cylon mother. But WHICH human father, and WHICH cylon mother? Hera? Or one of Baltar and Six’s descendents?
Also – it seemed to me there was a redub over what the Head People were actually saying at the end – which might have made Baltar’s “Silly Me” comment make more sense.
Criticism… How all of a sudden can Galactica teleport all over the known universe in one jump? Two episodes ago Boomer was able to find the fleet, in infinite space, and then it took her 12 or 15 jumps (I don’t remember what she said now) to get to the colony. For the battlestar? One jump in (unless I looked away during the interim travel time) and one jump out to go wherever in the universe OUR Earth is actually located. Sure, Ghost Kara was responsible for that, but still. A variation of Tamika’s idea – maybe being in the Black Hole’s area of effect allowed the FTL to work extra well.
What about the cylons? Didn’t they land with the rest of the fleet? I don’t remember now if their baseship flew into the sun or not. But no sign of their civilization? What about the humans that survived? Some of them went with Romo in a large group, theoretically to form some sort of civilization. He even had one of those people clickers to keep track of how many people were passing him. Archeologists never found any of them? Or, since Hera (presumably) is the earliest descendent to modern humanity, would their DNA (if found) qualify as differently enough from human DNA to be discounted as an earlier species (since Hera’s human-cylon DNA is the basis of our genome, not old cylon DNA or human DNA by itself)
March 24th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
AND – before I forget. The evil cylons were still around – the new and original centurions on the colonies and in that black hole facility. Whether or not the skinjobs died out, those cylons should still be out there alive and well
March 24th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
@Jinx: the colony was destroyed killing all Cylons within (ie skinjobs and evil cylons) , thanks to the raptor that nuked it by accident. They gave the good-centurions the basestar to search the galaxies. Hera is earliest find, not necessarily earliest descendant. I figured that the black hole gave them an extra boost for the final jump, or they were so near our planet by a similar black hole and jumped here. I think they were talking about Hera, and hell maybe Hera and Caprica/Baltar’s kids could have married Hera. Idk if that answers it all but it was a try.
-Mario
March 24th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
I would have to say that this was a great ending to a great series. I think we were given just enough answers to satisfy the greater questions about the series without having everything spoon-fed to us. To be honest I was a little frightened that we were going to get some what of a “Sopranos” ending because of how much RDM said loved the “Sopranos” ending (so let’s all be happy we didn’t have that happen….cue up Journey).
Looking back on the series and the comments made by RDM it seems obvious that they would land on our Earth 150,000 years in the past. RDM always wanted to pull the what he felt were the inherently important concepts from TOS and interwove them into this version. That being said TOS began with the voice over, “Some say life here began out there…” and it seems appropriate that he followed the basic premise of TOS. I don’t believe there was any time travel involved just a “higher power” who guided Kara to input the jump coordinates to our Earth. The show had been steering us towards this concept for awhile. There was a higher power (RDM also talked in one interview about how one of the story arcs he liked from TOS was the Beings Of Light) guiding them to break this cycle. And with the leap of faith/desperation they let Kara input the coordinates and they wound up jumping right nest to our Earth.
I liked that we never get an answer for Kara because we don’t need it. We don’t need to know what she was because she didn’t know what she was. All she knew was that she was suppose to lead the fleet to Earth, which she did (technically twice). There is something to be said for letting TVs most intelligent viewers to come up with their own conclusions to somethings.
When the first few measures of the TOS theme broke in while the fleet headed toward the sun were incredible. I am still amazed at how masterfully Bear was able to construct music that added more depth to a story than an action or actor for that matter could.
Overall I wouldn’t have wanted it to end any other way, except maybe another couple of years from now.
And what the hell happened to Boxey? Now thats the question that I cannot believe was left unanswered. Damn you RDM, damn you David Eick.
-Mahoney
March 24th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
@ Mario:
That is precisely what I’m doing. I’m re-writing the ending starting at the second half of the episode.
March 24th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
It may not have “professional polish,” but it certainly won’t cop out and be some terrible, preachy head-bash of a message.
March 24th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
Jinx says “How all of a sudden can Galactica teleport all over the known universe in one jump?” Because its FTL was enhanced with cylon technology about 4 episodes ago!
Jinx, you are right that there are LOTS of cylon skin models and centurions back on the colonies, but they don’t have ressurection technology, so do have a lifespan. And they won’t find the new Earth….even if they do, SOL! Final five dead and gone.
I agree that I didn’t like the way Adama and Tyrel were alone at the end. Why not be together and happy? Oh no, RDM has to make it bleak! Gotta have bleakness, even within a very happy ending for BSG!
And I’ve already said how unrealistic it is to try and survive without a group. You will die, you will starve. Chief would be dead in a matter of months, if not weeks, especially enjoying those European winters!
Chief. You gotta feel his pain. Loved Boomer, dumped her, she turned out to be a machine controlled by programming, decided he loved her anyway as she died. Married Cally, who had killed Boomer. Found out he’s a machine too, how ironic. Cally is killed by another machine, then he finds out and kills that machine (Tory), the one he was engaged to and lived with 2000 years ago. He dies alone. Pretty damned frakked. What a life! He had it best at the start of the miniseries.
I think Kara maybe had it best on New Caprica, when she had happiness with Sam, before she was kidnapped by Leoben. Sam probably had it best then too.
Sharon and Helo had it best after they got Hera back and they were both Colonial Fleet officers again, and then at the end as well on new Earth.
Adama had it best when Laura was in his arms. Her too.
Baltar and Caprica, at the end, they had it best.
Lee…I’m not sure. Maybe the best is still to come for him.
March 24th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
One more thing….I loved the Hitchcock-esque manner in which we are focused on Head Six and Head Baltar reading over the shoulder of man at a newstand and then you look at the man again and…..its Ron Moore. I laughed very hard at that and all I could think of was the scene in the Birds with Tippy Hedron on the bus and she looks over at the man next to her….Alfred Hitchcock. I agree that the 150,000 got a little too preachy but I think it started out just fine. That scene put to rest any question anyone would have that the planet that the colonists landed on 150,000 years ago was earth, OUR earth. And it also showed that the cycle may never truly be broken. Could have done without the creapy Japanese robot lady though. Ehh just getting the creeps thinking about it.
March 24th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
@Brian: I agree that the resolution of the Opera House was probably the biggest disappointment of the episode, but like you, it does not diminish my enjoyment of the series.
I also wish they concluded the Dogsville rebellion storyline. It’s funny how a fleet on the verge of chaos and revolution – armed with “Big Guns” from Baltar – suddenly all came to happy, NON VIOLENT, agreement to settle on Earth without any technology. Everyone, without a single exception, ultimately agreed to abandon their ships and technology and fling them into the sun so they could live happily ever after in a cave on Earth – with no cities or anything even remotely familiar to the old way of life.
Based on the prior mutinies we have seen and the known psychological state of the people of the fleet, I have to believe at least one ship would refuse to cooperate with that plan.
BTW, how did Adama get rid of his Raptor? It was parked near the hill where he was doing to build his cabin. Anyway…
Please be sure to post your alternate ending here – or at least provide a link. I’d be very interested to read it!
March 24th, 2009 at 5:17 pm
I haven’t read all these posts but just wanted to give my two bits about the opera house scene.
I ADORED it. What chills I got as it flashed between the final 5 on top of the CIC deck, and to the 5 white robed figures.
The opera house was pivotal. It was all a carefully orchestrated manoeuvre to help get Hera to safety! If Hera had made one misstep, if the president hadn’t been there to shield her, if Six didn’t pick her up, if Baltar didn’t get her to CIC, then she (as we are meant to believe) would have been killed or taken away – never to reach Earth 2.0.
LOVED IT!
March 24th, 2009 at 6:22 pm
can i just say all u guys at the frak party were way over complicating things this is how it is
earth they were looking for throughout the series was the earth that got nuked and was found in revelations
earth they found in this ep was OUR earth the whole point is that they settled and made humanity as we all know it and due to hera being described as eve we are all cylon hybrids no alternate universe, no back in time, just two different planets, the one they found wasn’t originally called earth it was named that by adama
March 24th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
I haven’t read any of the previous comments yet so forgive me if someone’s already touched on this…Its about Kara and Lee and Kara’s destiny.
I hear alot of folks are pissed that Kara and Lee didn’t hook up in the end- my wife and hardcore Kara/Lee fan is among them. But the way I see it, she sacrificed that possible future back in season three when she chose to fly into that vortex under Leoben’s influence.
Allow me to explain: This was an extraordinary leap of blind faith into the arms of God or whatever higher power she believed was out there. By doing this, Kara surrendering the right to dictate her own life path and subsequently the right to choose her own destiny. God or the higher power received her, transformed and apparently programmed her, and returned her to the world with a mission to act solely as an ‘instrument of God’ (to quote Baltar), regardless that she didn’t know that or even know what or who she was at that point. She jumped blindly into the unknown, and blindly did the unknown deposit her back.
I think if she had turned away from the vortex at the last minute and returned to the Galactica then yeah, she and Lee probably would’ve ended up together at some point down the line, but her turning away might also have stunted ‘God’s plan’ for the fleet and they all would be doomed to ‘chase their tails across the galaxy for another forty years’, as Cavill put it. (What a great line. Did he know something we didn’t?)
Kara never knew the specifics of her destiny- not what her involvement would be, not what the outcome would be, nothing. She simply and blindly chose the option of sacrificing a perceived lesser destiny for what she determined as a greater one and allowed God or whatever higher power to be the author of that destiny.
And once God or the higher power was done with their ‘Kara insturment’, she was plucked away from the world and hopefully placed somewhere like heaven or Valhalla. She deserves that after all she’s been through. This explains her vanishing act at the end.
March 24th, 2009 at 7:23 pm
I am still shocked at the