BSGcast: Face of the Enemy Finale Review
Now that we’ve all had a chance to see the final episode in the 10-part webisode series, it’s time to give it a full review and put our two cents in on what’s going on with Gaeta… and Baltar! Plus, we have the names of the winners of Auction Network’s search for the hosts of this weekend’s Battlestar Prop Auction in Pasadena!
That’s it from our studio… the next episode we’ll be shooting will be LIVE in California with YOU on Friday January 16th and Saturday January 17th! There’s still time to get on the guest list by clicking over to the Facebook Event and set yourself as Attending!
See you in Pasadena 
January 13th, 2009 at 9:56 am
Matt & Nat- Great review as always.
Am I the only one who thinks that “Sweet Eight” was lying about the lists and betraying Gaeta to pushed him to kill her? I mean, yes, she killed the others, but I think she was lying to him about giving the lists to the Cylons to kill those listed. Why would she want him to kill her? Well, if there is one consistent detail between the Eights, they are often dedicated unless “something shiner comes along.” “Sweet Eight” was dedicated to Gaeta, much like how Athena is dedicated to Helo (hence the reason why she just didn’t kill him off too when he was sleeping). And since the Eights believe in the Cylon God, and that suicide is a sin (as Gina stated in “Resurrection Ship”), she could have lied to him in order to force him into killing her, so that he could continue to live.
The reason why I think this is because there’s a lot of details that don’t add up. For example, why would she risk handing off the list to another Model Eight and say, “Kill everyone on this list,” while in the same room with a sleeping Gaeta? Even for a Cylon, that’s sloppy and an unnecessary risk (because what if he woke up and heard her?). Plus, the detail about “releasing some to keep Gaeta’s suspicion” thing also conflicts with information in the webisodes too. In the previous one, she tells another Model Eight to “kill everyone on this list.” And now, she says, “Oh, we let some of them go to not to draw your attention.” Now, if that were true, then in the previous webisode, she would have actually said, “kill some of the people on this list.” Plus, the Model Eights aren’t as ruthless as “Sweet Eight” made herself appear to be. Think about it: Have we ever seen a Model Eight be that ruthless? No. We’ve seen Threes and Sixes only. Now, don’t get me wrong, we’ve seen a lot of versions of the Sixes that aren’t consistent with each other, depending on which one (Caprica, Gina, Natalie, Shelley Godfrey, etc), but other than Athena and Boomer, all the Model Eights have been consistent personality wise. It’s only those that have “experience” that makes them different. So, that’s what is making me think that she was lying to Gaeta, so that he could kill her and save himself.
Also, when it comes to the Model Eights and they’re belief in the Cylon God, “Sweet Eight” couldn’t kill herself because that is a sin in the eyes on the God that she believes in (Gina stated this in the “Resurrection Ship” two-parter). So, this gives a reason behind why she is lying to Gaeta, she chose him to live because she loves him (which, as we know from Athena and Boomer, they tend to stick by the one they love) and is lying to him so that he could kill her in order to allow him to survive (if “Sweet Eight” didn’t love Gaeta, then why would she have left him alive after killing the pilots? And, from what we’ve seen with Athena in Season 3’s “Rapture”, when it comes to love, Eights are willing to die for it {in Athena’s case, it was because she loved Hera and wanted to see her again}).
And right now, some may be thinking, “But what about Baltar? He knew what she did!” Are you sure? Think about what he said exactly… Did he say, “I know your Eight killed those people on the lists” or any variation of it? No. He simply said, “I know what your Eight did.” This means that Baltar knew that she either killed all of them or released all of them.
Of course, this is my interpretation of the information presented. I could be wrong. Does anyone else suspect this as well or am I just misinterpreting things only by myself?
January 13th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
I want to believe that Sweet 8 did what she could. She saved some. She couldn’t save them all, and Gaeta should have known that, but he didn’t….and because she cared for him on New Caprica, she couldn’t tell him that. She let him have hope and some satisfaction that he was helping his people.
If, as you say, she loved him, why would she be so cold-blooded as to deliberately kill everyone on a list he’d given her?
I don’t think she was ruthless, just limited in what she could do.
I don’t think there’s any evidence that she wanted to die on that raptor. Or that she thought that if she died, that would make a difference in his survival. I think she didn’t have any hope they’d be rescued and was ‘confessing her sins’ to him.
She was pretty honest, and I think it’s logical to assume that if she wanted him to kill her so that he could live, she would have just asked/told him to do it.
There is no evidence that Baltar actually knew anything about what Gaeta and Sweet 8 were playing at on New Caprica. I think he knew there was SOMETHING going on there, and made it seem in the cell that he knew what is was….the reason being to make Gaeta nervous and point out that he wasn’t the only one with blood on his hands, perhaps. To see what happened.
And from the reaction he got from Gaeta (butterfingers!), he found out he was RIGHT. Call it a little Baltar experiment which provided fruitful results.
I don’t think there’s anything consistent about the 8’s, other than a strong attraction to humans. They each decide for themselves what is best in their particular situation.
80 hours!!! Tootie
January 13th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
After watching the last webisodes, I’m forced to conclude that Matt was right when he suggested that the contents to Baltar’s whisper to Gaeta is a case of retcon. When ‘Sweet Eight’ revealed to Gaeta what she had done he went through a process of denial stating that he had in fact seen people from the his lists after he’d given them to ‘Sweet Eight’. She explained that she saved some of them in order to reenforce his belief that she was helping him. Contrast this to his reaction to Baltar’s whisper. There was no process of denial. Prior to the whisper, Baltar was taunting Gaeta with statements like “If only your friends new the truth’, and then after the whisper is was straight into the stabbing. Clearly Gaeta knew exactly what Baltar was talking about. If he knew it then, then he already knew it when ‘Sweet Eight’ revealed what she had really been doing, and therefore Gaeta wouldn’t have gone into a state of denial.
As much as I enjoyed the webisodes, the reaked of sloppy/convenient writing from beginning to end. Gaeta’s romantic relationship with ‘Sweet Eight’ makes no sense (except to those who really want it to make sense). Gaeta trusting ‘Sweet Eight’ in the first place has no basis. Yes, Gaeta tends to be the trusting sort, but he isn’t stupid, and a person would have to be to trust her with that sort of information at that point in time.
On another note, I don’t think Gaeta is going to see Adama at the very end; I think he’s going to see Baltar (”Why him of all people?”) to try to lay the ground work for his little insurrection against the Human-Cylon alliance. I think we’re going to see Gaeta teaming up with Zarek, Baltar (or at least trying to get Baltar on-side), Nacho (this being the reason for Jane Espensen saying that Nacho was the original choice to be Gaeta’s boyfriend), and others. Richard Hatch has stated that Zarek takes a lot of people down with him. I think these are the people he’s referring to. That said, I still have my fingers crossed that Gaeta somehow makes it out alive since he’s my all-time favourite.
January 13th, 2009 at 5:36 pm
Just one little thing to say to work off your little funny.
“Mr. Gaeta” Adama says. “Why did you stab Dr. Baltar with a pen? Why not use an ax, a sword or even a knife?” Gaeta says “Cause it would hurt more you twit!”
January 13th, 2009 at 5:44 pm
CB2001: You are absolutely wrong when you say that the 8’s “are often dedicated unless “something shiner comes along.””. You have to be referring to D’Anna’s line to Boomer, after Cavil described her as his ‘pet 8′. D’Anna, knowing the chief to be Boomer’s old lover knew that she would remain his pet only until she “sees someone shiny”, a direct reference to her visions in which the Chief indeed appeared ’shiny’. And as soon as Boomer realizes that the Chief is in fact one of the FF, her affections for him that are now latant will come back to the fore and she’ll give up on Cavil – her temporary fling after having given up on the humans. Athena has never slept around, and I’m sure there are hot guys around Galactica, and thus your contention that 8’s are dedicated till the see someone shiny doesn’t work.
We have no reason to believe that the 8 was trying to commit suicide by Gaeta. We have no reason to believe that the 8 was not killing people on that list. Of course, in reality, she wouldn’t have handed the list off in front of Gaeta, that was a split second scene intended to capture the sense of betrayal. She made many lists, and probably had some on those lists released.
We’ve seen 8’s act dangerously before. When Natalie wanted to call off the hostage plan, the 8’s opposed her. They side with cylons and cylon survival and interests first, just in a softer kinder manner than the other models. However, they didn’t have moral qualms with wiping out the 12 colonies, they didn’t have issues with the pursuit and destruction of the fleet, they didn’t actively oppose the occupation of New Caprica. Athena, once she had sided with the humans, showed the same level of ruthless loyalty against the cylons – kneecaping D’Anna for example, showing loathing for Boomer as well in the Eye of Jupiter.
I take her at her word when she said that she seduced Gaeta, though she conceded that it was really Gaeta giving into hope himself. However, it was seduction, not love – she showed no affection for Gaeta once it was clear to Gaeta that she’d been killing people. She evidently liked him better than all the rest and would have preferred it if she, Gaeta, and the other 8 survived (The killing of that one was conceded to be an accident). Granted, that’s a weak point in my interpretation – if she didn’t love him, why spare him? I think that’s just a hole in the story that wasn’t sufficiently explored.
I doublechecked, and the most I can make out from the original airing was the word “secret”. The webisode added new audio making “our little secret” easier to hear as well as the word “eight”.
Okay, All Along the Watchtower thoughts. I know it’s not the topic of choice of late, but I’ve been musing of late. “Let us not talk falsely now – the hour’s getting late” and the dropping of deception in Revelations before the trip to earth. “All along the watchtower” as a line – could this play a role in what’s coming next, People at Earth or elsewhere watching them approaching? “Two riders were approaching” I first thought about Lee and Kara at the end of Crossroads II, but I now wonder if that pertains to the Galactica and to the rebel basestar.
January 13th, 2009 at 8:57 pm
Nice reading into of the lyrics to Watchtower, Signa Jade! Thanks for bringing that subject back into play!
~Matt
January 13th, 2009 at 9:45 pm
Signa Jade- Well, when it comes to Eights changing loyalty, it is seen in the show. In the episode “Faith”, when Athena is asked by the other Model Eights to lead a mutiny against the Sixes, where as before they were with the Sixes for not lobotomizing the Raiders. Even Athena and Boomer both have changed their loyalties (I refer to Season 1 for Athena’s story and “Downloaded” in Season 2 and, of course, “Six of One in Season 4 for Boomer). So, D’anna’s comment is, in fact, correct.
January 14th, 2009 at 12:40 am
Is it me or do the BSGcasts keep getting better and better? You two are becoming REALLY professional in your casts. You enhance the BSG Fan’s experience so much. Thanx for all these great casts.
I cant wait to meet you both on Friday!
Adalla
January 14th, 2009 at 9:46 am
CB2001 – I’m only going to post this one last time on the 8 dispute because I have other things to attend to, so you can even have the last word if you want. However, 1) There is no basis on the lines exchanged in the room where D’Anna came back online to say that D’Anna was speaking of the line as a whole. The subject of conversation at that point was not the 8 line, but this 8 in particular. Is it possible D’Anna was speaking of the 8 line in general? Yes. Is it likely? No, because 2) Nowhere else in the show have we seen anyone else describing the 8’s as attracted to shiny objects in general and 3) All of the examples you cited are within normal human experience. “Gee, this rebellion has nearly killed us off. Maybe we should rethink things… Hey! You’re the coolest 8 that’s ever existed! What do you think?!?” is a rational line of reasoning to keep from dying, not an indication of a propensity for changing sides. “Wow, I was supposed to seduce you, but now I love you. I’m sticking with you now…” could be an indication of a propensity for changing sides, except that Athena has been bloodthirstily loyal to the colonials for three full seasons now – Few characters have showed that stick-to-it-iveness on such a gigantic level in this show. Boomer has changed sides more than anyone except Baltar, but now we’re dealing with the one exception that proves the rule that the line of 8’s does not change sides with iconic frequency.
Thus, I submit that D’Anna was aluding to Tyrol, one of the shiny people in her vision of the FF when she said that Boomer would stay loyal to Cavil until she “Saw someone shiny” and became reunited with her long lost lover, now revealed to be a prince of the magical mythical planet Earth…
Ditto Adalla – you guys are great, and thanks for the compliment Matt. You know you’re only encouraging me to write more… but no time now. I’ll see what I can do with the lyrics with some more concentrated thought later.
January 14th, 2009 at 10:19 am
Thanks, Adalla! All the episodes of http://YourGeekNews.com let us rant constantly about movies, so we’re just getting more practiced!
Let us know if we get too ‘pro’… we like our street cred’ as indie podcasters
~Matt
P.S. We’ve got 15 episodes more episodes coming your way with lots of room for comments, and LOTS of awesome prized, Signa Jade! So by all means, let the comments fly!
January 14th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
Twelvecolonies said “As much as I enjoyed the webisodes, the reaked of sloppy/convenient writing from beginning to end. Gaeta’s romantic relationship with ‘Sweet Eight’ makes no sense (except to those who really want it to make sense). Gaeta trusting ‘Sweet Eight’ in the first place has no basis. Yes, Gaeta tends to be the trusting sort, but he isn’t stupid, and a person would have to be to trust her with that sort of information at that point in time.”
I agree, unfortunately, …sloppy. I wanted these webisodes to be well-written. I wanted to believe they were a worthy addition to the BSG universe, but they are not so great. I was seduced by hope, by faith. Not by Jane E.
Ask me what I would have come up with in terms of backstory to make Gaeta get all primed to go kill cylons now? Not so easy.
So I will take them for what they are…flawed and interesting.
Space Channel here in Canada has a whole lot of BSG goodness going on on Friday – all season 4 episodes, special show, webisodes, and of course, the first of season 4.5 at 10. Not sure what Scifi is up to.
Enjoy Hollywood Matt and Nat and you lucky folks. It’s -30 C in Eastern Ontario for me!! Tootie
January 14th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
Just watched my new season 4.0 dvds (mine came with the cool kara thrace dog tags) And I still have the same problem with several of the plot points. I just can’t buy how several characters get from point a to point b.
Kara – she was crazy, we don’t know if she is a cylon and she pointed a gun at the president then suddenly she is CAG
Saul – Adama finds out he’s a cylon and doesn’t know what the final five’s motives really are but has no problem leaving Saul in charge of the fleet
Anders – shoots Gaeta in the leg which he later looses and nothing happens happens to him
Athena – shoots Natalie and although we see her in a cell for a few minutes is soon released.
Lee – gets to be on the quorum and then president after a couple of days on the job
Romo – Randomly pulls a gun on Lee which seemed hollow.
Wish I could be in LA Friday but have a family function this weekend.
January 14th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
Signa Jade- Okie dokie. But my topic wasn’t about D’anna’s comment. It was about “Sweet Eight” in the webisodes. But I won’t push it any further. I respect your opinion.
January 14th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
Likewise.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:31 pm
Tootie: Yes, I cannot wait for friday! I’ll be working but I’m lucky enough to have a tv in my office… guess what I’ll be watching until the end of my shift? XD
Oh, and I live in Ottawa, so I feel your pain about this frakkin’ cold -_____-;
January 14th, 2009 at 8:35 pm
Pav:
1. You seem to be conveniently missing a step or two. She proved she was right. She followed through with her mission. She brought the cylons back to the fleet. Plus, Adama loves her like a daughter, which is why he believed her in the first place.
2. Saul has proven his loyalty. Remember, Adama is the same guy who trusted Athena and has received almost 100% loyalty from her (apart from a little shooting incident).
3. Well, Anders’ CO on the mission is his wife. She would have to put him up on charges. Plus, the crew was attempting mutiny. As an officer, Anders acted in defense of the CO.
4. Athena could still answer for that. We will see.
5. In a time of war, I think the quorum understands that for anything to get done, they need Lee and his relationship with the fleet.
6. Romo was just trying to show Lee that he WANTED the leadership. Lee has been wallowing in self pity and reservation for too long.
January 14th, 2009 at 11:45 pm
OMG these last 5 were sooo dark. And all I can say is poor Geata, holy crap! He hates cylons, but made the mistake of trusting one of them and she used him to make the list of insurgence to kill. Then killed all the people on the raptor…. WTF Just so they could have enough air!? It’s like some kind of nightmare for him. That coupled with him losing his leg. The last 6 webisodes defanitly had a nightmarish quality to them.
January 15th, 2009 at 9:02 am
Darth – your right and maybe I’m being picky but the character arcs seemed kinda rushed to me. I think it had more to do with the writers strike than any fault of the BSG writers. The back half of season 4 had the writers at full strength which I think will make for a great 10 eps. They have had a lot of time to think about the ending and I hope the show can go out strong. One of the things I love about the show is I have no idea where the show goes from here, similar to when they landed on New Caprica. You knew they were going to find earth – but now what? We’ll find out in ONE MORE DAY!! (well 2 days more for me)
January 15th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
Matt & Nat,
You’re gonna LOVE it here in sunny California! Today and the rest of this weekend, the weather will be in the low to mid 80’s. (sorry everyone in Canada, I’m not trying to rub it in, trust me). Can’t wait til tomorrow when hopefully we will all get our “geek on” and finally begin to get some frakkin answers!
Has anyone seen the recently posted “clues” on YWKTT site? VERY interesting stuff, let me tell ya.
1. Roslin’s reaction to “someone” getting off the raptor behind a Number 8.
2. Roslin tossing away all of her meds into the trash.
3. Roslin visibly shaken by “something” and unable to speak to members of the crew.
4. Roslin and Baltar’s conversation about Gaeta’s “loyalties”.
5. Baltar’s obvious frustration with “someone” he’s speaking with on the phone.
6. Roslin not wanting to face or speak to the Quorum.
7. Adama intentionally ignoring and walking away from Tigh.
These are all cleverly enigmatic clues, but WOW. Lots of subtext there. Can’t wait til tomorrow!! FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!
January 15th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
Pav, I agree with you about the strike probably making those things seem rushed. I think the last half of the season will feel different… well, except for tomorrow’s episode. That one was the last episode shot before the strike. People should not forget that.
January 16th, 2009 at 12:35 am
o_O WTF?
Ooookay, this is most likely my LAST speculative post about the identity of the FC. Right now, considering everything I’ve read,
my guess is down to two possibilities: 1) Ellen Tigh
2) President Adar
The second one is a major stretch, but who knows, right? Riiiiight. Okay. I’ll stop now.
January 16th, 2009 at 9:13 am
Tis the season to write articles about BSG. Here’s one from the Evangelical website Christianity Today.com:
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2009/january/19.72.html
It’s actually decent and not stupid.
January 16th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
Signa Jade: Very interesting read. I would have thought such a website would have tried to annihilate the show into rubbish god make believe. Instead they kept an open mind, and for that I have much respect for this website.
Thanks for sharing!
January 16th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
I sooo glad they are coming back to the stabbing of Gaius by Gaeta. This question has been bugging me ever since it happened. Hopefully there will be a big reveal (possibly that Gaeta is a cylon), which makes it all worth the wait. Thanks for the reviews, you guys are great.
January 17th, 2009 at 10:40 am
Now that I see the webisodes again (last night on Space Channel), I see how truly evil Sweet 8 was. I wanted to think the better of her, just like Gaeta did!
Very interesting indeed.
January 17th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
After watching the new episode last night I don’t get how the webisodes fit in the plot? Anyone care to explain?
January 17th, 2009 at 7:40 pm
John- The webisodes take place after the discovery of Earth. The end of the episode has them leaving, which means the events of the webisodes haven’t occurred yet. Plus, the webisodes explains Gaeta’s actions that will be coming up soon.
January 19th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
After watching the last webisodes, I’m forced to conclude that Matt was right when he suggested that the contents to Baltar’s whisper to Gaeta is a case of retcon.
Well, it’s not really a suggestion — Moore himself has said that originally Baltar’s trial was going to hinge on his role in a massacre of Sagiterons on New Caprica and he just couldn’t make it work, and (in retrospect) took far too long to admit it. So yeah, I guess you could argue it’s a “retcon”, but I prefer to think of it as Jane Espenson seeing an opportunity to fill a hole. I didn’t really think it was Baltar being as inappropriate as every, and taking the opporunity to whisper “Have I ever told you, Felix, you have a really cute arse?”
Plus, the Model Eights aren’t as ruthless as “Sweet Eight” made herself appear to be. Think about it: Have we ever seen a Model Eight be that ruthless? No.
CB2001: Guess it depends on what your definition of “ruthless’ is, but Athena is one hell of a Hard Eight, at least where her daughter is concerned. She wasn’t the one getting freakazoic about her entire race being wiped out by a plague — despite seeing first-hand how agonisingly cruel that death could be. Her husband was. To paraphrase Andre 3000 here, what’s cooler than cool – Athena Agathon.
January 19th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
And as far as what Gaeta’s going to do next… Well, let’s face it — this guy is a really lousy judge of character. Sweet Eight, leaving Galactica to become Baltar’s chief of staff, helping the Resistance (and almost getting flushed out a launch tube by 60% of the Final Five and whatever the frak Starbuck is for his trouble), volunteering for the Demetrius mission (and losing a leg)…
So why not go the whole hog, and help Tom Zarek throw the full on revolution we all knew was coming sooner or later — Roslin and the Old Man have never been more vulnerable, and I suspect their credibility in the RTF is pretty much nil. Lee can see clearly that the only way forward is with the Cylon Rebels/Final Four, but nobody else can and/or wants to. In a funny way, he’s the mirror image of Dee: She just gave up, wanted one final moment of happiness before she spread her brains all over the bulkhead. Gaeta just wants to drag everyone down into hell with him, but I have a funny feeling dealing with Tom Zarek might be a little more hell than he’s ready to deal with.
January 20th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
Craig- When I been by “ruthless”, I mean, “for coldblooded for coldblodded sake”. When it comes to Athena, he coldbloodedness was justified when it comes to her reaction about what Helo told her in “A Measure of Salvation”. She loved Helo and she made a promised to Adama to protect the Fleet, no matter what the cost (she even explains this, “this Cylon will keep her word, even if she’s the last one in the universe.”). When it comes to her killing Natalie, though she was wrong for doing it, she was justified because she believed that Natalie was going to take Hera (remember, she even explains this to Adama when he questioned her about why she shot Natalie. In her point of view, though projected, she was protecting her child). The “ruthless” I am talking about, the one that Sweet Eight is trying to make herself appear to be is “coldblooded for coldblooded sake”, without a justifiable reason.
But like I said, I could be wrong, it’s just my point of view.
February 4th, 2009 at 3:39 pm
On the topic of ruthless 8’s, remember who put a bullet into Adama’s chest in the CIC. That was pretty ruthless.