Caprica Trailer Released!
We got completely blindsided yesterday with a preview of what the Graystone and Adams families have in-store for BSG fans… and it looks like a serious departure from the military drama we’re all used to, but the moral and ethical dilemmas abound! We’ll be doing a mini “Capricast” on the teaser to give you our thoughts, but in the meantime have your say right here!
~Matt + Nat
P.S. Pardon the terribly stretched image, it’s all we could find on YouTube….
July 23rd, 2008 at 3:10 am
Hi Mat+Nat, glad to hear from you again!
I’m a real BSG addict. I don’t know if I will be a Caprica addict too. Let’s wait and see.
July 23rd, 2008 at 6:21 am
Skinjobs before toasters? Huh? What up wit dat? Does anyone know when this will start airing?
July 23rd, 2008 at 6:41 am
OMG this looks quite a bit different tha Battlestar, then again I guess thats the point. Can’t wait to see it, and will we all love as much as BSG only time will tell!
I believe its airing sometime in December so I hear.
Gr8 to have you two coolest people on Earth back (this Earth not the post apocalyptic Earth on BSG :L )
July 23rd, 2008 at 12:11 pm
Caprica looks more like Eureka than a true other worldly show. I will miss BSG, but I will give Caprica a fair chance. However, I note that all sci-fi is not the same, Babylon 5 fans are not always Star Trek Voyager fans, TOS Star Trek fans are not alway NG or Enterprise fans. Clearly BSG fans were not Bionic Woman fans. The SciFi channel makes mistakes, they got ride of Far Scape and kept Dr. Who, they have bet the fanchise on Stargate, and Stargate Atlantis. What can I say, I am disgusted right now, BSG had at least three more seasons, and since they only had one they blew five or six episodes on nothing, to me this season did not get good until the last three episodes including the mid-season cliff hanger, sooooo while I will gave Caprica a chance, the trailer reminded me more of Tin Man and the flop it was than anything else.
July 23rd, 2008 at 12:34 pm
Nikcara, while agreeing with the thrust of your post just note that if anything was to blame for the demise of farscape it was company who owned the makers of farscape (the Jim Henson Company) wanting an out AND scifi aquiring Stargate.
Doctor Who did not start being remade until well after Farscape finished and in anycase is owned and produced by the BBC, scifi just buy the rights to show it in America
July 23rd, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Hay Mat,
I promised u a Gauis Baltar video a while back, because my last video didn’t have enough Gauis in it & I hear your kinda found of him
So this video is for you, just follow the link & I hope it fills your Gauis quota 
enjoy.
July 23rd, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Whoa. I am interested. I trust Ron. My one and only concern is that I will love this show and it will get canned because the masses aren’t intelligent enough to appreciate it and tune in. Having said that, it will be cheaper to produce than Battlestar, which is great.
So…I take it from this promo that there were skin jobs (one at least) a long time ago.
I am reading “Battlestar Galactica and Philosophy” (see Earth Explored strand for ISBN etc. of this book – it’s a bit dry in places but very interesting and is getting me through this drought nicely) and one chapter author focusses on the concept of personhood – that being human is not neccesarily the same as being a person. That is, women were human but not considered persons (and still aren’t too much in some societies). Data was not human, but was ruled a person by the Starfleet tribunal. (That was a GREAT episode by the way.) What is personhood? In addition to “Is humanity worthy of existence?” (the main question of BSG). the creators are also asking now that the series is wrapping up and the final cylons are being revealed, “What does it mean to be a person? Is a cylon any different from a human in the fundamental ways?” Sounds like Caprica will focus a lot on that question.
It looks like it also addresses the question of “Just because we can, does that mean that we should?” Should we create technology that will have a profound effect on society and completely unknown consequences without maybe thinking about it for a while? The tunnel-vision egomaniac scientist who wants to be the first to create something is an interesting character. Star Trek TNG touched on this with the visiting female doctor who was trying untested treatments on patients under Beverly’s watch. Voyager touched on this with the holographic Cardassian doctor who had in life infected Bajoran prisoners of war with diseases etc. This was a central theme in Jurassic Park too, and one we are all grappling with in regard to cloning, using embryonic stem cells etc. It’s a central question for our time.
I for one don’t want kittens with roses growing out of them and pigs that glow in the dark. I don’t want to see animals used for bizarre experiments that test the ability to do something just for itself. Similarly, do we toy with humans too? Just because we can decide gender, height, intelligence, eye colour, etc. etc. etc. of a baby – should we? That day is coming. Just because we can grow an ear on a mouse’s back, should we? That day has already come.
And lots more I can’t imagine is coming.
Tootie
July 24th, 2008 at 3:04 am
Matt- If you like Eric Stoltz’s work, I recommend watching “Killing Zoe”. He’s pretty good in that one as Zed.
And finally, we’re getting somewhat of what I was hoping to see in the normal BSG series: a story following civies!
July 24th, 2008 at 3:43 am
I would LOVE to see a making of BSGcast vid,
it would be so awesome!!!!!!!!!
seeing how you guys make this great show
please please please make a making of
ps i love battlestar galactica to death
July 24th, 2008 at 7:16 am
I also vote for a Making Of BSGcast vid, also love it if you showed bloopers too, because I say you two have a mad laugh making this show
July 24th, 2008 at 11:52 am
Charles, thanks for the info on Far Scape, did not know that. However, my point which I think you got was that Far Scape was so much better than the garbage of Dr. Who, heck, if they are going to acquire a series from the BBC they should have gotten Hex, which is much better to me. Also, Sci-fi made a mistake in not picking up Space Above and Beyond or Mutant-X, I am just really disgusted with them right now because BSG was my show and they let it die. For an example of what I am saying, ER has been on NBC since at least 1993. That show has been through a ton of cast changes but the trust of the show continues, Law and Order and its many spin offs go on forever with crazy cast changes, and yet, Sam is still the rock of the orginal show. Stargate too me is not that for Sci-fi, I watched it because it was on, not because I cared about the characters. Jason on Atlantis, well I only watch it for him, if he was not on the show, I really would not care at all, but I watched BSG because I cared about BSG the whole show, not just one character. It is depressing.
July 24th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
You two are so funny with the corners cut off and the two-eyed Tighe, haha. You never cease to crack me up.
Any BSGcasts on anything are welcome. That BSG book I keep mentioning will give you lots more ideas.
Are you guys having a booth at FanExpo? I can’t WAIT. I just want you to know I didn’t get the T-shirt yet, but could pick it up there if you want, saves mailing costs. You have been busy with MIFF and I am not dissing you if you haven’t sent them, but thought I would mention because things do get lost in the mail. I am such a geek that that T-shirt arrival will be MEGA-exciting! From the hands of famous Matt and Nat!!! Will wear proudly at FanExpo.
Tootie
July 24th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
Just watched your recap of the Caprica-trailer. Caprica starts in December, BSG in January?
. Something with a time stream?!
Crossover episodes possible
Lee Adama meets his Grandpa…..who knows.
I still think that I will not become a Caprica addict. But maybe Ron surprises me with a real good show like BSG.
July 24th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
I’m really hoping to see some toaster cylons early in the series. I think to keep the scifi people happy your going to need to see some version of the centurian early on to get excited about the series. The only downside is – will this look too cheesy to the non-bsg viewer? Razor showed they can still can be cool but I don’t know. It will be interesting to see how much of the lead up to the cylon war we will see. Guess it depends on the longevity of the show. Will there be raiders? Will there be different versions of cylons. They were basically personal slaves so they can’t all the sword toting kind. Will they all be programmed to say “by your command” to their masters?
I really would like to see more of the first Cylon War. Maybe when Caprica is done it will lead into another series based in that timeline. Bill Adama didn’t really fight in the war so maybe follow saul. I don’t know if there is another BSG cast member that was in the first Cylon war besides Saul and Adama to tie the series together.
Nikcara, I know your upset that SciFi is getting rid of bsg but you got to give them credit for putting the series on. Any show is a risk, especially a serialized show but they stuck with it for four years and are letting them have a full season to wrap up the series. Most series are cancelled midseason (Like Firefly – curse you Fox!) or have some cliffhanger that never gets resolved. I hate that great shows get canceled while lesser shows get to go on forever. Does SG1 deserve 14 plus seasons from SciFi (I count atlantis as SG1 since it’s just SG1 with different actors) while BSG only gets 4 seasons? I don’t think so. While I was huge fan of the first couple of season of SG1 look how watered down and formulaic SG1 became after only a few seasons. (Although it got better at the end) They have 22 episodes to fill and not enough good ideas to fill them with. As the seasons go on – key writers, showrunners and actors get bored and move on to other projects. You end up with writers who don’t have the same grand idea of the show that was originally intended. Cast members get itchy for their big brake or get bored and move on to new shows, so the great cast you have now probably won’t be there for season 6 or 7. Can you imagine BSG without EJO or any of the main actors?
Just to show you how bad it will be, Season 7 of BSG will include but is not limited to:
-A body switching episode: Lee and Starbuck trade bodies when the jump drive malfunctions
-Timetravel episode: Hotdog goes through a wormhole and crashlands in a hippie compound in 1960’s earth. He must look for replacement parts (and a little love).
-The Transformers Episode: In the mid-season finale Galactica Transforms into a giant robot. It also ties into Transformers 5 which comes out that week.
-Several “Planet of the week” Episodes: Galactica finds a new planet with dispersed members of earth every week. There will be a lord of the flies planet, a medievel planet, a WWII Germany type planet and much more.
-An invisible person episode: The cylon detector malfunctions and makes starbuck invisible leading to all kinds of hilarious fun.
-An alternate universe episode: the entire crew gets to meet copies of themselves but learns they are really evil versions of themselves (and they eat people).
-and for the series finale it turns out the entire series was a dream. Lee wakes up in his cubicle and goes back to work.
Any other good ideas for season 7 of BSG?
July 24th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
LOL
And the cardassians show up to cause some trouble
July 24th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
did anyone notice the quite insane computer that graystone was using?
that’s a nice touch, links in with the colonies scrapping most of their new tech to protect themselves against the cylons, their society has gone backwards technologically
(is well aware he’s reading far too much into the background of a single shot in a trailer)
July 24th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
can’t wait for Caprica to air, it looks like it has a lot of potential.
as for BSGcast ideas, a making-of segment would be cool along with some blooper reels if you have any.
this is off topic but have any of you checked out http:www.lastexittonowhere.com per chance? they design and sell tees from fictional companies in the movies — I thought it’d be cool if someone actually designed a proper BSG insignia tee. I don’t know why NBC doesn’t sell one but they should.
July 24th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
I just must reiterate that I NEVER NEVER NEVER thought Caprica would actually make it to the screen….so tickle me pink.
Pavlov’s Dog – hilarious future scenarios for season 7. You have reminded me of many a pathetic Trek stinker episode…but usually they were quite fun. DS9 so jumped the shark with that evil twin thing. O. M. G. sooooo baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.
Tootie
July 25th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
The Music ep sounds great, I love what Bear does on the show! I posted me play the Adama Roslin theme on youtube if anyone’s really in to the music of BSG: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw1MeI4TLwE I too also love the BSG season 7 list, wow. lol Nice.
July 25th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
Wow… The feel was so… different.
And wait… Did I get this right? Skinjobs before toasters?
Then again, it would explain why some Cylons felt the need to look human. If it was already inserted in their programming, then they couldn’t go against it.
I cannot wait to see how it will tie up to BSG.
I’ll definitely give this a chance, even if it made me cringe a bit.
Luv,
Maria
July 25th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
Hi Matt and Nat,
it is great to hear from you again and great to have another cast up! Even more awesome is Capricast! It seems you guys are still in the planning stages for that. I can see both advantages and disadvantages of splitting your “BSG related” casts into two websites. The advantage is since you have the word “caprica” in your domain, search engines might find capricast for someone looking specifically for Caprica news. Also, well, the obvious one would be that fact that Caprica and BSG are really two different series after all. However, I do see the advantages of keeping both BSG and Caprica casts right here. You’d get traffic from 2 seperate fan bases, and the discussions from one series might fuel discussions on the other. Either way, I’m just happy you guys will be dedicating an entire site to Caprica itself. I think it’ll turn out great whatever you choose to do. I’m personally looking forward to Capricasts.
Ok, moving onto BSGcast. You asked for what we’d like to see. Here’s my list:
1) Making of BSGcast and behind the scenes
2) BSGcast at Conventions (ComicCon would have been a great one). To see some covereage of Cons through the eyes of BSGcast. You know, sort of a Video blog that presents interviews and news of conventions. Something to show. To interview fans, and stuff like that.
3) Related to 2, interview of BSG cast and crew members of course would be great if you could manage to get a hold of some of them. I think BSGcast is famous enough to at least get you some contacts etc. Perhaps Luciana Carro, Richard Hatch and Kevin Grazier to get you in touch with the cast and crew.
4) Ok, it wouldnt be easy, but again, with the help of some networking you might be able to get invited to the set of Caprica whenever they do some shooting. And the set of BSG for the upcoming TV Movie, webisodes, as well as make reports on post-production, such as visual effects etc. Basically I think if you could get invited to the sets and cover some things, record some footage, and talk to some cast and crew…that’s rock
Other than that, I have no idea. I think the BSGcast and Capricast really depend on new material released. Such as new behind the scenes, new trailers, teasers…and of course, new episodes and pilots
Ok, now onto the subject of Caprica and the teaser itself.
Personally, I have a feeling Caprica is absolutely going to rock. A lot of BSG fans seem to be concerned about liking or not liking Caprica. I think we all have a right to be concerned, because we are all BSG fans, and we all love to see more BSG material. And the source of all our worries is that Caprica is advertised as a BSG prequel. That basically makes it BSG. Much like Razor was BSG, so will Caprica be BSG, so it is natural for us to compare it to BSG and have our desires and hopes get in the way.
However, it is clear Caprica is not only about a different era of BSG, an era dominated by peace, before the Cylon War, before even Battlestars were made problably. So naturally, just the idea of Battlestars not existing can be troubling for a fan of BATTLESTAR Galactica lol
But I think Caprica is going to rock for several reasons. First and foremost, it is made by Ron D Moore and David Eick, who MADE BSG. This fact alone should suffice to calm the hearts of BSG fans. Just like Razor was not really part of the main series, it was a BSG movie…well Caprica will be a BSG prequel. So, I think it’ll be great. And the fact that we see such a different aspect of the Battlestar Galactica universe, I personally find extremely fascinating and interesting. I personaly am very curious to see how RDM and co. image life on the colonies before the wars, before the cylons.
But like many other BSG fans, I have my hopes, expectations and worries too. I personally hope that even though Caprica is set in a city, and the setting is much like our own world, lawyers, doctors and all, I still hope that they include enough “SciFiness” from BSG to remind people constantly that this is NOT our world, that in fact it is BSG. Simple examples could be many shots of ships flying in the skies, or Raptor like transports. In fact, it’d be great to see some Colonial ships fly around from time to time also. Furthermore, even if most of the show is set on Caprica itself, it still might be great to perhaps have orbital stations and some scenes taking place in orbit, to remind people that this is not our world. Just like Scorpion Fleet Shipyars was a military orbital facility, who is to say the Colonials did not have civilian orbital facilities, for tourism, or scientific purposes? Having some scenes like this would make us BSG folk feel more at home.
And I can even live with a BSG series without any space scenes or ships whatsoever. However, what I would really be disappointed with would be if there are no connections made between Caprica and BSG, especially in the grand scheme of things.
*Spoilers for those who have not seen the Teaser, or who dont know the general plotline of Caprica, which is “general knowledge” by now*
For example, we know that Joseph Adama’s daughter is killed in a terrorist attack or something and that Daniel Graystone basically ends up cloning her. So basically Daniel Graystone creates the first Skinjob.
This has monumental implications (which I’m surprised you have not mentioned Nat and Matt
). This implies first of all that skinjobs came before chrome jobs, and till now we’ve been led to believe chrome jobs came before skinjobs by BSG! Nobody in BSG knew the Cylons looked like humans, they only knew of the Chrome jobs. WE are explicitly led to believe that Skinjobs came after Chrome jobs in BSG. But now, Caprica seems to imply the opposite.
Furthermore, Daniel Graystone is essentially the creator of the Cylon race, by being the rich computer geek and CEO who created Adama’s daughter’s clone and I’m guessing will end up creating the cylon race, both skinjob and toaster versions.
So we have Daniel Graystone as the father of cylons, and Zoe, Adama’s daughter, as the first being to ever become a cylon. the First cylon! Now, we can tstart making guesses and conntections. Is Daniel Graystone the Old Hybrid in Razor, who says his “children” refer to hims as a God? Are the hybrids on all the base stars in fact Zoe or a variation of her?
See, my point is, Caprica has given us other pieces of the BSG puzzle, and if they do not connect those pieces with BSG, and especially the BSG Series Finale, then I truly would be disappointed.
Caprica has the potential to be more “BSG” that helps us understand the entire story better, and helps us connect even more dots.
If Caprica manages to do this, then I will be one supremely happy BSG AND Caprica fan. If Caprica creates storylines and characters completely not related to the revelations we are given in BSG, then I will still watch it of course, and enjoy it for what it is, but AS A BSG FAN, I would be diappointed at Ron Moore and Eick for wasting an opportunity to link Caprica and BSG well, and to use Caprica to supplement and complement BSG, rather than make it a BSG “themed” series that has little to do with the BSG world.
Adalla
July 25th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
Adalla, I always love your posts. You frakin’ rock.
Did anyone else catch the guy on the subway train who was about to blow himself up say “the one true god”? I have a feeling that David & Ron will link these. I agree with you Adalla, if they don’t, I’ll be a sad panda.
July 25th, 2008 at 9:32 pm
I certainly am curious to see if the skinjobs before centurian idea will be accepted by the fans. In a series that tries to be realistic, it is a large leap in believability to jump strait to skinjobs for me. I also like the idea of robots improving themselves and eventually choosing to look human on their own – choosing to look like their creator instead of accepting that they are machines. If robot build themselves to look, act and feel human do they become human?
One of the first things I loved about BSG, before the show even came out, was the concept of robots that invent their own god. But with the guy blowing himself up and talking about the one true god, maybe they did not come up with the idea on their own. I’m disappointed that will be taken away. It was genius. Obviously I have not watched it so, though it concerns me, maybe it will work when we see it in context.
Does this trailer add William Adama’s sister’s clone as a candidate for being the Final cylon? They are putting out Caprica a month before BSG starts so maybe they want you to know the backstory and characters before you watch the end of season 4. It could also put William Adama or joseph adama on the potential list since they would be in direct contact with Greystone who could potentialy make/clone one of them. I hope this in not the case since it seems too contrived but just some ideas.
July 25th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
my guess is that RDM will pull another rabbit out of his hat and somehow tie the final five in with Caprica. it’d be great to see anders, tyrol, torey and tigh again……and whoever the fifth cylon may be.
July 26th, 2008 at 11:44 am
Hey I just figured out who the final Cylon is! I need to put all my facts together and will post it in the next day or two.
July 26th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
Thanx Paul
And yeah I did notice that guy shouting about the one true God on the train, and I have no idea how they intend to tie that to the one true God preached by Batlar and Six on BSG.
See, one thing that sort of bothers me is the fact that BSG writers always seem to invent things on the spot. I mean, they seem to be masters at it, because they made one of the greatest shows ever, but sometimes I get the feeling that they dont think much past the current episode they are working on. If you listen to some of the podcasts, such as the podcast for Revelations and Hub, you will see how the story almost happens by accident. While on the other hand, Babylon 5’s ALL 5 Seasons were written before the show aired, making it a very fluid story, where everything is interconnected and there for a purpose.
Right now I’m getting the feeling that Caprica never really entered the thoughts of the BSG writers until this year, when the possibility of it being green lit became real. So I cant help but think that BSG and Caprica writers are just now trying to connect the two, after all has been said and done.
I mean, Caprica seems to be implying some VERY serious things about BSG’s story. Such as that cylons are just machines and clones of human beings. Where as in BSG the Final Five and Caprica Six seem to imply that cylons have a much greater divine role, or divine quality to them. Especially the Final Five appearing in the Opera House as some sort of beings of light, clearly more than just a simple clone or machine…
So are Cylons simply machines and clones as implied by Caprica…or are they something much greater, something with divine purpose, par tof the the great “cycle”, as implied by BSG?
The writers need to make their minds up
Adalla
July 26th, 2008 at 8:59 pm
The cylons had to spend time researching how to get from centurians, to raiders, to hybrids, to skinjobs, and now a few human scientists with older technology manage to whip some skinjobs up with no trouble at all? I shouldn’t draw such conclusions without first knowing the writers explanations, like when Tory was revealed to be a cylon I like many others didn’t ‘get it’ until a few more episodes, and now she’s one of my favorite. This dilemma will need a phenomenal explanation for me to be satisfied. The other big problem I have is how the Adama family just happens to be tightly linked with the events leading up to the creation of the cylons. I can accept this though, as it is probably necessary to get an audience.
Tootie, your comment on the implications of science on society I had a couple problems with. Such as applying fiction to reality, which is a very tempting thing to do because it gives the illusion of greater depth to a story. Fiction is just entertainment and can’t teach us anything unless the writers mix in a couple facts and make sure to keep them distinct from their story telling. All the scientists I’ve met have been normal considerate individuals who put a lot of thought into their work, not selfish madmen. Secondly there were your characterizations of scientific research “kittens with roses growing out of them” this is a prime example of what is called a straw man argument where one misrepresents their opponents position and claims victory. Thirdly the fact that something may strike us as revolting doesn’t mean its evil. If parents want to prevent disease or give their children an edge it shouldn’t be cause for alarm; its never been in the past. Lets say there is an allele and individuals that have it are statistically more intelligent or healthier compared to those individuals with another commonly occurring allele of the same gene. If a couple lacking the better allele want to have a child and decide to use genetic engineering to give their child the better gene, this raises significant moral dilemmas for most people, but if that couple were to hypothetically have the better gene to begin with and have a child with the same genes as in the first situation then everything is peachy.
July 26th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
Sorry, I asked on the Dark Knight review forum if you guys where going to talk about this before I checked the BSGcast site.
July 27th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
On the question of skinjobs before toasters… one thought I had on that when I saw the preview was that maybe Grayson’s cylons don’t work. In the preview we saw the clone of the daughter already had some conflicts with being a machine yet having feelings, and the expectations (her fathers) of being the same as his dead daughter. Emotional conflicts and trying to live like regular humans could take its toll and they could just not work, or malfunction and go crazy. Then they would have to be put down. That would bring up the issue of who would do it. Would Grayson want to distroy his creation? could he? could they really kill something that looks like their beloved daughters?
But then if they did distroy them and he decided to start again with a less complicated model… enter toasters, which end up having their own set of problems. And maybe the toasters find out about the human versions that were distroyed and decide that was the way they should go. Then we get right back to the Battlestar Galactica story line.
On a compleatly different note. In Caprica Bill Adama had a sister that was killed. In BSG he adopts Starbuck as a daughter and he tells Kat that he always wanted to have a girl. Maybe this feeling comes from losing a sister he was close to? Just a thought.
July 28th, 2008 at 6:53 am
I’m not too sure about Caprica to be honest. The trailer made me a little uncomfortable because it seemed like too much teen drama (and I hate shows like that), but then again Esai Morales makes up for a lot.. You guys said you haven’t yet seen Jericho; GO WATCH IT! It’s only two seasons after all.. ;P
So yeah, I have no doubt that I’ll be watching Caprica as soon as it comes out, but I fear my attention span or tolerance levels will be a lot lower than when I watch BSG. I can forgive BSG for some bad episodes (Hey, I didn’t even think ‘The Woman King’ was all that bad), but if Caprica wants to hook me, it had better have the same vibe that I got from the BSG miniseries..
Also, with regards to new BSGcasts to keep us going for the long haul, I’d love to see a behind-the-scenes cast as mentioned, but I would definitely like to see some more theorizing on how the show could possibly end (and what you would like to see and what not), what else you think / hope will be in store for the BSG franchise, a ‘best of BSG’ and ‘worst of BSG’ episode, the best fanvids on YouTube or elsewhere, etc.. In any case, whatever you’ve got, I’ll watch!
July 28th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Osmium44 said:
“Tootie, your comment on the implications of science on society I had a couple problems with. Such as applying fiction to reality, which is a very tempting thing to do because it gives the illusion of greater depth to a story. Fiction is just entertainment and can’t teach us anything unless the writers mix in a couple facts and make sure to keep them distinct from their story telling.”
Tootie: Wow. ‘Applying fiction to reality gives the illustion of greater depth?’ No, it uncovers the depth that exists.
Fiction is ‘just entertainment?’ That’s such a sad and shallow view. It can’t teach us anything unless there are facts? WTF? There are always facts in fiction. Always. And it’s bad fiction if the facts are distinct from the story. Good fiction is a total package.
Osmium44 said:
“All the scientists I’ve met have been normal considerate individuals who put a lot of thought into their work, not selfish madmen.”
Tootie: Of course most scientists (most of anything) are normal people. I never said otherwise. I said “The tunnel-vision egomaniac scientist who wants to be the first to create something is an interesting character.” That’s completely true. And there are some scientists out there who are tunnel-vision egomaniacs who want to be the first to create something. Fact also.
Osmium44 said:
“Secondly there were your characterizations of scientific research “kittens with roses growing out of them” this is a prime example of what is called a straw man argument where one misrepresents their opponents position and claims victory.”
Tootie: Come on. There are already pigs and cats that glow in the dark. (Google it.) There are Vacanti mice with ‘ears’ growing off their backs. (Google again.) These already exist in the name of growing organs for human use. They aren’t fiction. Mammal/plant crosses are just one of the many things that are coming, and I was pointing that out. I haven’t misrepresented anything.
It’s a fact: some scientists are doing things like making glowing pigs just to see if it’s possible. Just to push their genetic manipulation abilities. Is that dangerous in all kinds of ways? Of course it is. Want to see if you can cross a human with a dog? A horse? A chimp? Want to see if a baby human can glow? Someone is already trying this shit right now behind closed doors in various countries and if you don’t believe that, you are beyond naive.
NOT ALL PEOPLE ARE ETHICAL. FACT.
Osmium44 said:
“Thirdly the fact that something may strike us as revolting doesn’t mean its evil.”
Tootie: I never mentioned evil. I never said there is or isn’t a difference between these things. Of course a disfigured creature or human can be sorta revolting but of course not evil. WTF? I just said I don’t want people doing things just to see if they can be done without first having a long talk about it. That involves the whole human species kind of talk. A big big long talk. Good luck to all of us with that.
Osmium44 said:
“If parents want to prevent disease or give their children an edge it shouldn’t be cause for alarm; its never been in the past.
Tootie: You are comparing the present with the past with regard to the powers we have now over health and reproduction etc.? WTF?
Cause for alarm, cause for alarm. Depends on the way you think of course, how far ahead you can see something playing out, if you’ve read Huxley, and lots of other things. Of course everyone wants the perfect child or one that’s better than others. The edge, as you say.
Ok, just because it’s the first thing that comes to my mind (not because it’s the only concern here): What about others who don’t have the edge? What about genetic manipulation of the wealthy while the vast majority of the species still suffer from preventable and/or treatable diseases, don’t have enough to eat, don’t have any life at all to speak of? That’s NOT CAUSE FOR ALARM? Seems awfully fraking alarming to me. Something big wrong there. Depends what kind of world you want I guess.
I asked ‘Just because we can decide gender, height, intelligence, eye colour, etc. etc. etc. of a baby – should we?’ You didn’t have an answer for that (and what you said stated below is not an answer). The long term consequences of eugenics are huge.
I guess I’m one of the humans out there that sees a NASA shuttle go up or the MARS Rover or $1000 hamburgers at a fancy restaurant or force feeding geese to get foi gras or aerobatic flight competitions or any other thousands of excess this race has produced and I feel lots sick. Because you can be sure that the money spent to develop and maintain these excesses would improve the quality of life (and save the lives) of a hell of a lot (read millions) of people.
Oh, and for an answer to ‘Where do you draw the line of enjoyment/luxury/excess?’ Don’t ask me. I am as guilty as the next middleclass person.
Osmium44 said:
“Lets say there is an allele and individuals that have it are statistically more intelligent or healthier compared to those individuals with another commonly occurring allele of the same gene. If a couple lacking the better allele want to have a child and decide to use genetic engineering to give their child the better gene, this raises significant moral dilemmas for most people, but if that couple were to hypothetically have the better gene to begin with and have a child with the same genes as in the first situation then everything is peachy.”
Tootie: That makes no sense. You are comparing natural mixing of genes with selective breeding or genetic engineering? WTF?
All in all, there are LOTS of things happening in the scientific world that this world is not ready for. And yes, I am in the field of science.
Will we ask the hard questions of ourselves? Sure. Discuss them? Sure. Develop agreed upon and enforced ethical boundaries. Of course not. Some of us will drag everyone along on the present decadent path and destroy us all and the planet. A flawed creation? Of course.
July 29th, 2008 at 9:12 am
First, Matt and Nat it is great to see the both of you again! I hope one day to meet the both of you…perhaps a back half frak party? On the East coast??? Pleeeeease??? LOL!
*Spoiler Alert for anyone who has been hiding under a basestar*
Caprica is absolutely gonna rock. We have all heard the plot points and I feeel that the short of it is daughters die, daughters are cloned, they have no “soul” so they’re a bit…”off.” Something goes terribly and publicly wrong and eventually Graystone and the skin job daughters go away…unfortunately for the Colonies they like the idea of robots doing their work so the toasters are enlisted and eventually revolt. After the Cylon war the toasters “go away” to find the creator and one day 40 years later return with new and improved skin jobs.
The only part of the story that I can’t put my finger on is where the final five come in to play if they’ve been around for thousands of years. At that point it seems more and more probable that my buddy Tighfighter’s (and others here) theory on the Beings of Light may be true.
So much to digest and look forward to. I trust RDM and David Eick…they have a legacy to uphold and I know neither of them take that legacy lightly. We have a lot of threads going on over at BSG Pilots (click my name) on Caprica and the new TV movie etc. While you wait for the 4.5 finale and more of our beloved BSG cast come on over and join the BSG pilots in some great forums and contests, etc.
July 30th, 2008 at 12:01 am
Pavlov’s God read your post and I understand your point. I purchased Space:1999 last week. I have only re-watch since childhood the first six episodes. So much was transplanted directly into Star Trek:NG it is sad so your point is well taken but perhaps like the movie Hancock, they should write the story’s back story before writing the movie. However, with all of the true sci-fi writers in paperback perhaps they would do well to have them write and not the non-sci-fi fans who are working Hollywood and Vancouver now.
July 31st, 2008 at 4:00 pm
Nikcara, the same thing happened when I went back an rewatched the original BSG a couple of years ago. My fond memories of it were better than the show actually was. I don’t have the heart to watch Galactica 1980, it might ruin any remaining good memories I have left of the show. I will give the show a bit of a handicap due to the time it was made, there was no CGI, diminishing budgets and that’s the way shows were then.
Hope i did not offend any Stargate fans, I like a lot of things about the show and there have been several good to great episodes. But when you have 300+ episodes there is not a way to have consistantly good stories. For the most part I think BSG is a good argument for shortened seasons and a storyline that has an absolute beginning and ending in mind. That’s not always possible since networks want to make money and fill air time. If a series does good, they don’t want it to end. If it does bad, they take if off the air – with or without closure. Their goal is different than the fans goal. Fans just want their show to be great.
I hope the show goes on but as spinoffs and mini-movies. A yearly 3-4 episode miniseries would be awesome – something like “v” and V:the final battle” back in the day. There are lots of possibilities in the BSG world. Caprica is a good start. A series about the first cylon war would be awesome, maybe a miniseries that shows the cylon homeworld and what the cylons did after the 1st war. And who knows if there were not more survivors from the colonies, whose stories you could tell. If anders and his little band surivied and the pegasus survived, maybe there are more people out there that did not meet up with the galactica storyline. I think the cylons decided to leave the colonies so the survivors could still be there starting to rebuild civilization. I’m excited to see the BSG movies and that could be a good way to keep the series going but I will miss the large story arcs that allow you to get into the story more – which is why mini-series might be the better choice.
August 1st, 2008 at 10:54 am
GOOD NEWS EVERYONE!
Eick told SCI FI Wire that producers have been “able to convince the network to let us air … long episodes–[to] take single episodes and make them double episodes, … [and to take] double episodes and make them quadruple episodes.”
http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=0&id=58067
August 1st, 2008 at 1:04 pm
Tootie, say what you will of DS9 but if BSG can end on half the epic note DS9 did than I will be a happy man. Still, Pavlov’s God’s list is hilarious.
I love how different the show looks in feel compared BSG. It needs to be its own show and the key will be to make it relate to BSG as much as possible without it ever feeling like BSG. If it’s going to be nothing more than an extension of the franchise then I fear that it will quickly start looking like Pavlov’s God’s scary list. It needs to be a completely different entity that slowly builds suspense as it comes closer to being the show we all know. So far, I’m pleased with what I’ve seen.
August 4th, 2008 at 4:26 am
I am glad we have a new link to go to
ok I am tired, and I still want to see some interation between toasters and skin jobs and humans….
,,,,so now cap6 is the girl in white from 1980,,,
and starbuck still saves the day……
well moron is sticking to the plot.
if I had the last name more,,,,or moore ,,,I would never name my kid ron
we really need to see some deeper conversation between chromejobs and others……..
otherwise there is not logic
I will be back,,,,,,,,( Its not earth!!!!!!!) Jason
August 5th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
Adalla said:
“See, one thing that sort of bothers me is the fact that BSG writers always seem to invent things on the spot. I mean, they seem to be masters at it, because they made one of the greatest shows ever, but sometimes I get the feeling that they dont think much past the current episode they are working on. If you listen to some of the podcasts, such as the podcast for Revelations and Hub, you will see how the story almost happens by accident.”
It can be frustrating to perceive that the writers are flying by the seats of their pants. They are in a way. However, it is ALWAYS (not sometimes, not often) the case that the best outcome/fruit of the creative process is to do this. To go in a direction, have your goals, but leave lots of room for change, for synergies, for flying. The best stuff comes when you have the groundwork, then you notice things, angles, you are inspired and you can really make things dazzle and turn in the light. Yes, then sometimes these dazzling moments can be built on and may change the entire direction of the whole thing slightly…or change it for a while. In short, you have to have the wiggle room or chances of the really good stuff happening get low.
Also keep in mind that different writers work on different episodes, so yes, you get this current episode emphasis in their discussions.
RCM, I was just making fun of that evil twin arc on DS9 – it was a great series, the best of them all in some ways. ‘Rocks and Shoals’ was an incredible episode (stranded DS9 crew and Jem Haddar crew on a planet), as was the one where Worf almost leaves Dax to die on a far-away planet, as were so many of the Dominion episodes. And it ended just fine in my books, except they should have found a better actress to play Ezri….shark!!!!
August 6th, 2008 at 12:26 am
You know I love BSG But I just don’t really care about caprica.
Now if they make a show that takes place after BSG(depends how it ends) I’m down.
Though maybe this show is New New Caprica, BSG Ends With Them finding a New home and Caprica Ends with the reviel that it takes place after BSG, then I’d watch!
August 6th, 2008 at 5:24 am
Charles, thanks for the info on Far Scape, did not know that. However, my point which I think you got was that Far Scape was so much better than the garbage of Dr. Who, heck, if they are going to acquire a series from the BBC they should have gotten Hex, which is much better to me.
Whoah, kitten… You can’t be all things to all people, and if you don’t like Doctor Who there’s no law requiring you to. But could I just point out that while you dismiss the show as “trash”, it’s actually a massive hit in the UK and new show-runner/head writer Steven Moffat had won three Hugo for best dramatic presentation (short form) three times off three nominations, and I hope he’ll make it a fourth. Sorry, Michael Taylor but much as I love Razor, he’s up against a very strong field this year.
There’s nothing wrong with expressing a preference, but I really wonder why so often in SF fandom there’s a need to express your appreciation of someone’s work, by dissing another’s which isn’t “trash” just because its not your cup of tea.
I don’t know, Pavlov’s God. There are so many shows that have done their legacy no favours by not having the sense to leave the stage on a high — IMNSHO, The X-Files is a prime example. And I’ve been, to put it mildly, far from impressed with the Stargate movies. OK, they give closure to the dangling Ori and Anubus storylines from season ten, but don’t do so well. The Farscape mini was better, but it was painfully obvious that a whole season’s worth of storytelling was being shoe-horned into a three hour miniseries. And the strain showed.
ITA. I’ve pretty much checked out of Stargate Atlantis because every damn week I end up saying to myself “you know, they did this story five years ago on SG1 – and did it better.”
August 6th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
It reminds me of the xfiles tv show. The central character is Mulder. He is driven by a passion that involves his missing “sister”. His father just happens to be a retired member of the evil syndicate who is co-planning a secret alien invasion of earth. Later it reveals that Mulder may be not be a Mulder but the secret love child of the person who is currently leading the evil syndicate.
So building on what pavlov said…… Adama’s sister is dead or missing? Someone is driven by a quest to find/replace her. Oh, and we find out that somone/evil robots is planning on wiping out the people and taking over. One last note, spoiler alerts……we also may find out that Bill Adama, is the love child of a Graystoke and not really an adama? Oh and Lee Adama and Kara Thrace are really brother and sister.
August 7th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Who is going to FanExpo in T.O. August 22-24????
Data, Fonz, Captain Janeway, Adama, Apollo and more will be there (ok the actors will be)!
http://www.hobbystar.com/fanexpo2008/
I can’t wait!
Tootie
August 8th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
This just on SciFi.com about BSG movie in 2009:
SCI FI Channel announced that it will air a new Battlestar Galactica two-hour prequel movie, set to air in 2009 following the conclusion of the series.
Directed by star Edward James Olmos, the as-yet-untitled new film will be set before the events of the original Battlestar miniseries and will focus on Cylons: Number One, known as Cavil (Dean Stockwell), resistance leader Sam T. Anders (Michael Trucco) and Chief Galen Tyrol (Aaron Douglas).
In the beginning, the Cylons had a plan, but it didn’t account for one thing: survivors. During the chaotic aftermath of the nuclear destruction, two powerful Cylon agents struggle with plots and priorities on the human ships that got away and among the resistance fighters who were left behind.
The film will be written by Jane Espenson and will begin shooting in Vancouver, Canada, at the end of the summer. After airing on SCI FI, it will be released on DVD by Universal Studios Home Entertainment.
August 11th, 2008 at 10:55 pm
I can’t wait to see the new show. Unlike some of you I am not a purest and for me bsg by any other name is still bsg as long as they tell a quality story. I watch bsg for its character driven story-lines and human angst themes not so much for the special effects.
I do however have one question though about Caprica…Isn’t Graystoke Tarzan’s name? What new myths are they now adding to the mix?
And Craig Ranapia: I have to say I agree with you as usual about Stargate Atlantis….but I stay tuned to ogle Jason Momoa!
August 13th, 2008 at 7:09 am
Oh yeah… that’s a really hard way to waste an hour. I’m kicking myself because Momoa was down here earlier this year doing press, and a blew a chance to meet him — which was probably a good thing because I’d probably have gotten all dorky and sexual harassment-y.
And along with the commitment to ’supersizing’ the series finale (at least), I’m very excited about the movie. Forget Olmos in the director’s chair, and Jane Espenson scripting. They had me at ‘Dean Stockwell’. I know BSG isn’t the Brother Cavill Show — and no disrespect intended to the best argument ever for the Emmys introducing an acting award for best ensemble — but Dean has proved that a good actor doesn’t count his lines, he just brings his A-game every damn time. ‘Lay Down You Burdens’, in particular, just managed to strike that uncomfortable balance between being funny and creepy.
August 17th, 2008 at 7:51 am
Hey where can I find those rewarded texts? Especially I’m lookin for Tootie’s text about consequences about who’s final cylon, mentioned in BSGcast: 4.08 “Faith”.
TIA
August 17th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
Hey Mikel, you can check out the winning post that we announce in each BSGcast episode in the comments of the previous episode. There’s no quick way to do it, I’m afraid… but you’ll get to read some awesome posts from the incredibly cool people who frequent this site along the way
And Tootie, we managed to acquire Media acreditation at FanExpo 2008, so we can get some first-hand Edward James Olmos and Aaron Douglas interviews and/or panels to put up on BSGcast.com THIS WEEKEND!!
Adam, we actually are considering rocking a BSGcast LIVE party on the East coast for the back-half of Season 4…
Craig Ranapia, I’ve got to admit, Dr. Who is pretty weird, but it’s pretty awesome in a low-budget british half-century of legacy kind of way. But you’re right, Hex rocked my socks. I’m kind of in love with Cassie. Don’t tell Nat.
~Matt
August 21st, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Your secret is safe with me – but I was just thoroughly ‘meh-some’ about Hex which struck me as Hogwarts 90201 with added sex and violence. Which is fine, because as that great thinker Sly Stone put it, “Different strokes for different folks, and so on and so on, do be do be do be.” I believe there are even one or two heretics out there who refuse to admit that Battlestar Galactica is the best think since the invention of the fried egg sandwich. No accounting for taste…
And to be fair, I do get that — Doctor Who is part of my childhood, and it doesn’t have the iconic status in the US that it does elsewhere. I can also understand why it sort of confuses some American viewers tonally. You’re not going to see The Doctor having a triple-X throw down on the floor of the TARDIS with a companion, then putting a cap in the ass of the baddie, any time soon. Not on the BBC’s flagship channel at 7pm on a Saturday evening.
August 29th, 2008 at 11:48 pm
Hi All,
I am confused about Caprica, I just watched it on the scifi.com, and it is Joe Adama, the lawyer, Adama’s Dad, during the time the cylons were being invented by the scientist? This is all before the first cylon war, during which Adama fought….but Adama is not born yet, correct? Because he was like 19 or 20 in the flashbacks we’d seen, so that means the cylons had to be invented and rebel in a realistic span of less than 25 years? Does this make sense?
Help! I miss BSG, how come they never do marathons on scifi? They show everything else a gazilion times.
A
September 2nd, 2008 at 4:09 pm
I am confused about Caprica, I just watched it on the scifi.com, and it is Joe Adama, the lawyer, Adama’s Dad, during the time the cylons were being invented by the scientist? This is all before the first cylon war, during which Adama fought….but Adama is not born yet, correct?
Not quite – if what I’ve read is what’s going to air, ‘Caprica’ is set about ten years efore the start of the First Cylon War. [MILD SPOILER AHEAD] The wife and daughter of Joseph ‘Adams’ (he changed his name because of prejudice and discrimination against non-Capricans) are killed in a suicide bombing on a train. His son survives. Now, if my time line is correct Adama was close to sixty five – and compulsory retirement — at the start of the mini-series.
The FCW ended forty years before — which makes him 25-ish at the time of ‘Operation Raptor Talon’ (Razor flashbacks). A title card pinned that op to the 4,571st (and last) day of the War.
Take away around twelve and a half years (assuming, of course, that the Caprican year is the same length as ours) and William Adams/Adama would be twelve going on thirteen when the war starts.
Take another decade off that, and he’s be a toddler. Now, I don’t know how that squares with reports I’ve seen in ‘Caprica’ The Very Young Man was cast as a nine year old. But William Adama is definitely alive.
September 2nd, 2008 at 5:18 pm
MORE MILD SPOILAGE
BTW, I was interested to read that part of Jospeh Adama’s backstory in ‘Caprica’ is that he emigrated from Tauron (the home colony of a certain Admiral Helena Cain), and changed his family name to the more Caprican-sounding ‘Adams’ because Taurons face prejudice and discriminations (more interesting parallels — this time with Tom Zarek, Gaius Baltar and the social context revealed in ‘Dirty Hands’). The more things change, the more they stay the same?
December 4th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
Surly there is a mix up when people including Mat start wondering about possible crossover episodes between BSG 4.5 and Caprica as 4.5 is due Jan 09 and Caprica in 2010 according to the Mat + Nat post . Maybe they are going to show the pilot but they can’t have finished a whole season already. Mat himself does seem to think it’s happening though in the Caprica review.
December 13th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
I am a bit confused with the new show Caprica. From what I understand, the Cylons were created by the humans on the 12 colonies and the Cylons were networked mechanical beings, i.e. the centurion robots seen in the original series and during the flashbacks during the episode Razor. However, during the Caprica trailer it seems the issues being explored have to do with the creation of humanoid Cylons. Since no one knows that the humanoid Cylons even exist in the BSG show I am confused. It would seem to me that the Caprica show should deal with how the humans developed the machines and then how the machines revolted against man to start the first war.
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