CapriCast 1.08 – Ghosts in the Machine
With all the intense drama of Daniel and Joseph both getting closer to their daughters with guns and fire blazing, and Amanda losing her mind by inches, it suddenly occurs to us that nothing really happened in this episode! Plot-wise of course. Each characters resolve is being hardened for the mid-season finale next week, and man, did it ever make for some drama!
Thanks for all the votes on our new Capricast intro and ending! They look great, and everybody wins. Plus, be sure not to miss Toronto Comic Con on March 26-28 for the Caprica panel and BSG guests!
March 19th, 2010 at 9:13 pm
Answer to riddle:
All that is happenning has happenned before and will happen again.
All of this has happenned before and will happen again.
Or whatever permutation you prefer.
March 19th, 2010 at 9:59 pm
*SPOILERS* SHE JUST SHOT HER DOG. My reaction: Immediately get up, run to the t.v., and turned it off.
March 19th, 2010 at 10:13 pm
@Xanthosis – If you’d kept watching you would have seen they were blanks haha.
Good episode! I liked it. Daniel was being pretty brutal about getting Zoe to come out to him. Her hatred for her dad is pretty intense. It’s hard to tell if it’s because she’s been mistreated or if it’s because she’s been brainwashed by the STO. Knowing she would have killed her dad had they been real bullets is a little disturbing.
I really like where they are taking the V world New Cap City game. Virtual drugs that actually affect you in real life. It’s pretty trippy. It would have been nice if he had found Tamra. I love his frustrated desperation to find her, the guy who plays his character is a very good actor. It’s nice to see Tamra’s sign everywhere. I bet when he finds her she’s going to be queen of the gangsters in that place.
I’m excited to see next weeks episode. Anytime James Marsters is in it i know it’s gonna be good.
March 19th, 2010 at 10:30 pm
That was freaking intense with the dog and the gun…I was worried they were going to end it right there and we’d have to wait a week to find out what happened! Also, right after Daniel said they were blanks, I wondered if Zoe knew…I figured she probably would be able to tell.
March 19th, 2010 at 11:23 pm
I think I figured out who Emmanuelle really is, or a possible theory on who it may be. I don’t think the stencil previously pointed out is of the user controlling the Emmanuelle avatar. You may think I’m nuts, but I think that the Emmanuelle avatar is actually Evelyn, the judge’s assistant that apparently seems attracted to Joseph.
You’re probably wondering, “What makes you think that?” Simple: first off, in this episode, Emmanuelle refers to Joseph as Councillor after he fails to answer the question he was asked (right before he finds the Tamara flower drawing). How did she know that he was a Councillor? It’s not like Tamara told Heracles that her father was a lawyer, and it’s not like Joseph to Heracles that he was one. She called him Councillor like she knew he was a lawyer. The first time we saw Evelyn, she called him Councillor. Not only that, if you look closely, Emmanuelle looks like a younger version of Evelyn.
Possibly reading too much into it? Or possibly a truth that may eventually be revealed? I’ll leave it to you guys to decide.
March 20th, 2010 at 2:56 am
Good call about Josephs assistant being the guide for him in V world CB2001! I didn’t even think of that, and it is strange that she called him counsellor. Although it was even stranger that he didn’t find it strange. Maybe he thought heracles knew and told her but I doubt it. I thin he’d go with anyone at this point if it meant finding his daughter. I thought it may have been Sam, but Evelyn makes more sense.
March 20th, 2010 at 5:12 am
I think Emmanuelle is Tamara. Only other explanation is that she is someone being paid by Heracles. I really like the idea of her being the assistant, Evelyn. It could be that she talked to Heracles after Joeseph asked her to find him. And she is being paid by him to guide Joeseph. Or she is working for the FF who are still be hind the scenes. I’m speculating of coarse.
Virgis is ruining Daniel by sowing mistrust between him and his wife. Things he holds dear.
And I still think there is a connection between STO and Virgis (and/or Virgis Corp), either now or later in the series.
There are some hidden players in this story because there are too many unanswered questions as to how so many people know things that they shouldn’t. Like Emmanuelle and Virgis. Could be connected to the FF.
And Daniel is kind of hard to read. I think his character is designed that way though. I really want him to know/prove about Zoe/U-87 because he seems to be genuine in his love for Zoe, but at the same time its like I think she is also right about how he would use her for his company.
And my last prediction for now. Daniel is going to find out for sure she is in the U-87, maybe even talk to her, but then she is going to be gone. Gotten by Virgis or STO. But he will have what he needs to make the other Cylons works or Virgis may get the MCP (no Zoe included) and make his Cylons work. Daniel will get her back though and try to keep his promise to build her a better body (organic). Then the FF come from behind the curtains.
March 20th, 2010 at 10:16 am
As complete and total dog lover, that scene where she shot the dog was just brutal. Then the dog turns out to be okay, and I could breath again. Still, what an episode. I only had one tiny thing against it.
Clarice practically came out, and told Amanda she was STO. Why was that not even touched on? I mean, as far as we’ve seen, the two are still as friendly as they were before! Unless…maybe when Amanda asked “Which god?” in the last episode, she didn’t mean that as “You’re in the STO” but maybe she was honestly asking which god. So when Clarice was referring to “God” in that whole speech of hers, Amanda just thought she was talking Zeus, or Athena, or something. Seeing the coarse of this episode, I think that would make plenty of sense. Either that, or there’s a really good deleted scene out there.
Actually, typing that out just now, I’m not as disappointed in that little part.
As for who “Emmanuelle” is, I think that it could be anybody. As for my theory on who it is, I think it’s Larry. You know, Sam’s husband? At first, I was thinking it could be Sam (which would have been awesome), but seeing the episode, I don’t think it is. However, I think it’s going to be somebody we would never expect, and let’s face it, Mr. Larry hasn’t had that much of a role in this, now has he? Also, that would explain why Emmanuelle knew Joe was a lawyer. Anyways, that’s my theory on it. And although the odds of that are little to none, I think it could happen.
However, if she turns out to be Evelyn, that would be cool too.
So, am I the only one that thought Amanda was about to punch Vergis in the nose, if he didn’t leave? I mean, I get that he’s trying to get back at Daniel for the two men he lost. I do. But that was a dumb move on Vergis’s part, I think. I mean, if you were in that situation, who would you believe. The man who’s your husbands rival, or your husband? I mean, she wasn’t going to go. “Oh, really? My husband is a douch! Thank you, Mr. Vergis!”
Yeah. Exaggerated, but you get my point. Although, he did mix the pot. Even if Amanda didn’t believe him right then and there, she’ll still have that thought in her head, which leads me to my next theory.
I don’t think Daniel will get Zoe to talk in the robot, but Amanda. I think that Amanda will do her own little investigation of the Robot, maybe to see if what Vergis said was true, or maybe she’s lead there by head-Darius, and she does something that gets Zoe to slip and speak. Let’s face it, Zoe can’t possibly hate her mom like she does her dad, because Amanda really hasn’t done anything to her. And is it me, or did that scene a few episodes back where Amanda is talking about how much she hated the robot, Zoe looked like it actually hurt? And her mom wouldn’t use her for business, right?
And finally, in something that nobody cares about, but I’m putting anyways, I was watching NCIS with some friends, and I saw the guy who plays Sam Adama. Don’t know why I’m putting that, since I doubt anybody really cares.
Fayth
March 20th, 2010 at 12:42 pm
Yeah, that dog shooting scene – I don’t know who’s more cruel : Zoe or Daniel….
March 20th, 2010 at 12:43 pm
If Sam says killing requires you to pretend its a game, then someone who wanted to understand how Sam ticks, (significant other), then why not play a killing game……
Frak that.
It’s Tamara. She has got her inner Tauron on and is seeing if dear old Dad can do the same….
Vergis corporation can’t get it to work because they didn’t design or make it. The MPC (sp) is an artifact from Kobol. It held the Lord’s of Kobol until they slipped into the V world awaiting new bodies. Now they want bodies. In the end, cylons will be the lobotimized avatars of the dead and the Lord’s of Kobol until they acheive the self awareness necessary to say “No!”
March 20th, 2010 at 12:45 pm
One last thought…
Frak the dog. It is a prop on the set like it is a prop to humankind…..(harshness is not a consideration when you consider the fate of the colonies).
March 20th, 2010 at 1:07 pm
Until this episode, the Vergis character was an antagonist who had been wronged and needed to even things out. His cowardly hiss-and-tell session with Amanda destroys whatever sympathy which could have been felt for him. Now he’s just another character whom I hope comes to great and painful harm. The show already has far too many of these.
Daniel continues with his Mengele-like ways. As he professes to love Zoe, his actions show that he has no idea of the meaning of the word. Zoe at least did qualify her statement that she “might” have pointed the gun at Daniel should the rounds have not been blank. Her ability to regret some future action shows that she hasn’t gone over the edge just yet.
There’s been lots of good speculation about Emmanuelle. Great comments all. Unless Tamara has found a way to fake partial de-rezzing, she can’t be Emmanuelle. I have no idea about who she may really be. The bit about her knowing that Joseph is a counsellor could just be a red herring. Emmanuelle’s initial meeting with Joseph didn’t appear to be random. She would have done some research before hooking up.
Is the car that Darius was driving a head-car, or just a car driven by someone else? Amanda did say something about it being the same car as in the recent accident. I hope the head-characters don’t drive the show too much. There are enough psychological reasons for the head-characters to exist without resorting to some angelic-mumbo-jumbo. Unless there’s something very special about Amanda herself which allows her to project.
The flower-T graffiti could be like notches on a gun handle or painted emblems on a fighter plane representing kills. Maybe this is how she keeps count of her progress in the game. Tammy’s been busy.
The show continues to be interesting, but is becoming de-populated of likable characters. Lacy Rand occasionally, but only very briefly, shows a tiny bit of common sense. Like asking Zoe-A what if Zoe’s purpose of going to Gemenon was wrong. And now, why not reveal yourself to your dad? Lacy seems to one of the very few characters who can still think outside the box everyone else has put themselves into.
A few questions: Is Philomon now banished from working in the Lab? Will Rachel try to manipulate him further? Does anyone care? And where has Wee-Willie been? Perhaps he’s been hanging out at that farm he speaks about in the future.
Leoben’s answer to the riddle: “For children to reach their full potential, their parents have to die.”
March 20th, 2010 at 1:21 pm
Somehow my name got shortened to ‘v’ in the post above. Must have been one of those pesky Ghosts in the Machine.
March 20th, 2010 at 4:02 pm
“As the gods overthrew the Titans, so the men have overthrown the gods. But when man visits his sins upon his children, how shall he be repaid?” That is the kind of writing I loved in BSG. I loved this episode. Well most of it. I’m pretty tired of both Amanda and Joseph Adama’s endless moping. The Daniel – Zoe interaction was riveting!!! Daniel is one cruel SOB and I mean that in a good way because it makes his character interesting. It also makes Zoe more interesting because otherwise her involvement in the SOTO, her anger, and her steely resolve just seem inexplicable. Seeing her father psychologically torture her makes you wonder about their relationship before she died. He couldn’t have just developed that kind of effectiveness overnight and she couldn’t have had that kind of resolve without practice.
March 20th, 2010 at 8:33 pm
I have to say that Zoë is really starting to piss me off. I mean can you ever truly hate your father that much because of your disagreements regarding his life choices? He obviously does still love her, but I get no indication that she loved her parents at all. I just find that ridiculous. I think that anyone who has been through issues with there parents can understand that. Either that, or perhaps the STO had her so confused before she died that she doesn’t know which way is up. As well, where the hell is Tamara already?!
Other than that, I have to agree with others that you can definitely see the classic BSG patterns taking hold. Amanda seeing that “ghost/spirit/angel” whatever it is, etc.
Other than certain issues, however, I’m really enjoying it. I just want to see the uncle more though. Moreover, I love how they are playing around with sexuality and showing that a world where it doesn’t represent such a big deal is, in fact, possible.
Keep up the great work you guys and give me a shout if you ever leave TO and come to Montréal for a segment.
Cheers
March 20th, 2010 at 8:41 pm
@ VeganDirtEater
Die or be killed. In this universe (BSG) the children kill the parents. Zeus kills his creators, titans. Humans will kill Zeus (the STO replaces Zeus). Cylons kill the humans. So All that has happenned has happenned before and will happen again.
Did anyone ever realize that the humans of the colonies were the cylons of the Lords of Kobol. And that the humans on the real earth (nuked and all) were the other cylons of the LOKs. The LOKs were a prior human and the end of that line.
March 20th, 2010 at 8:54 pm
“As the gods overthrew the Titans, so the men have overthrown the gods. But when man visits his sins upon his children, how shall he be repaid?”
Kudos to Elizabeth.
I really enjoyed your comment. I agree that this line represents what the mythology is about and really reflects the riddle wrapped within an enigma that is Battlestar and now Caprica.
Honestly, I think the writers have laid out clearly what the mythology is in this episode: “She was seeking answers to the afterlife…we discovered she had the power to transcend life and death maybe she’s found the answers that everyone is searching for or maybe she is the answer.”
It’s obvious by now that the “V” world will come to represent Heaven, the eternal afterlife that Christianity in our world espouses. The writers have already revealed in Battlestar Galattica the notion that “there is another realm” a la Baltar’s radio broadcast and Roslan’s visions on the boat.
What’s interesting is how the belief in the one true God will be mistakingly intertwined with the Zoe avatar, which is not Zoe, but just a ghostly manifestation, not the real thing. I think the writers are doing this to point out how a religion can be founded on non-sense essentially.
I wonder if Tamara will rule a V afterlife that is the equivalent of Christianity’s hell and Zoe will rule the heaven V world? I don’t know if that will happen, but I wonder what manifestations the other gods will take, Zeus, Athena, Apollo, Hera, etc. because right now it appears that the STO’s one true God is the only force in Caprica. Moving forward I wonder how Caprica will evolve to incorporate more of the mythology of Kobol.
Also, if Caprica keeps a solid audience base hopefully the show will reach the point of the first Cylon war. I bet that would be the end of the series, the begging of the cylon war. Similar to Conquest of the Planet of the Apes, there would be a Cylon that says NO to a direct order from a human and then all hell breaks loose. I mean, it would make sense and I think Ron Moore and David Eick have already given us a Battlestar Charlton Heston moment a la Ron Moore in the final episode reading Time’s discovery of Hera’s bones…That was our planet!!!! And our one true God is the STO’s God and the Cylon God and our heaven and Hell are V world’s !!!!
March 20th, 2010 at 8:55 pm
The head characters make us from the lower life forms they find on planets and give us our humanity. Only to show up later and warn us of the flaw that they build into us (we want to be gods and we will create our own man only to be extinguished). They came to our earth and created our line, what is different is that our line mixed with the colonial human & cylon line. But before, the final five line mixed with the colonial cylon line. And before that the human colonial line may have been a mix with the Kobol line and native humans of the colonies. Therefore maybe line mixing is inevitable.
It maybe that the dirt eater and sagitarion hostility is linked to the idea that the Caprican line is of pure Kobol lineage and the other two are a lesser breed of Kobol and a native human form of the colonies hybrid. This could be the source of the racism. Given time and circumstance, we all may one day hate the man in the mirror.
Congratulations, humanity is just a continuous cross-breeding exercise. Bring on the wenches!
March 20th, 2010 at 9:18 pm
Brain Frak!!
Remember RAZOR ……What if the old man in the tub….is Daniel Graystone!!!
all this has happened before. All this will happen again….I will be reborn again…
March 21st, 2010 at 12:58 am
That was intense. Really! I mean, that’s the first time I’ve ever actually had an adrenaline rush from a Caprica episode (when BSG was able to do this at least a few times a season). I take it as a good sign. I mean, I really didn’t know what Daniel was capable of, so I was really concerned about what was about to happen in that last scene with the gun. I love the darkness and edge this show is starting to develop (which are of course the defining characteristics of BSG).
It was really quite refreshing that Joe finally got off his weeping ass and started acting like a strong character. I hope we start to see more of that in the future.
I really liked the trivia question, as well as the drag character. Really, there wasn’t much I disliked here.
George and others: excellent theories. I wonder, though, if the writers really are trying that hard to tie Caprica into BSG, or if they’re just flying by the seat of their pants like they did with the parent show. Hopefully it’s the former, but only time will tell.
March 21st, 2010 at 7:28 am
“I have to say that Zoë is really starting to piss me off. I mean can you ever truly hate your father that much because of your disagreements regarding his life choices? He obviously does still love her, but I get no indication that she loved her parents at all.”
@Matt – I wish this was ridiculous, but I see it far too often in the school where I teach – and it is a rural school at that. I don’t even want to imagine what a city school would be like.
And people want to know why I want to leave the classroom…
March 21st, 2010 at 7:30 am
I know that the STO didn’t have much of a role in this episode but, on re-watching The Plan I heard something that may/may not be relevant. During the attack on the Colonies one of the attacking hybrids says ‘Apotheosis was the beginning before the beginning.’ (Double checked on Battlestar Wiki).
Now which beginning she (it?) is talking about is a little bit unclear but, if the two are related, then that jacks the Sister Clarice storyline up a little bit.
March 21st, 2010 at 10:45 am
@George, it’s interesting that you mentioned Razor and the possibility that the First Hybrid was Daniel Graystone. The Hybrid said to Kendra Shaw “What am I? A man? Or am I a machine? My children believe I am their God.” Hmmm, Daniel as the creator of the U-87 could certainly be considered the Cylon God and is the most obvious choice – right now.
However, after this episode watching the extreme depredations of Daniel against the U-87 as he tried to coerce Zoe to reveal herself, Daniel is increasingly being cast as a villain – a force of evil.
What if in a twist of irony, it is eventually Tom Vergis, as the creator of the Meta-Cognitive Processor (MCP) – the device that allows consciousness and individuality to inhabit the robotic U-87’s body – becomes revered as the “giver of life” and one TRUE God of the Cylons?
The rivalry between Vergis and Graystone is then set up as the classic good versus evil – God versus Satan – conflict repeated across time – “all this has happened before…and will happen again…again…again…again…”
@ Fayth and CB2001, excellent speculation about the real identity of Emmanuelle as Larry and Evelyn respectively. To me, it comes down to Emanuelle’s admission that she is being PAID to watch Joseph.
Evelyn is a possibility mainly because of her latent attraction to Joseph – but she would have to know about Joseph’s quest for Tamara in V-world in order to act upon it. As a secret admirer, however, Evelyn is not likely to be in the position of trust required for such a role – but it is still *possible*.
On the other hand, we know that Sam has a deep love for his brother and questions his Tauron sensibilities – after all, Joseph was raised to be the Caprican in the family. Sharing the grief over the loss of Tamara as part of the Adams/Adama families Sam would want to help his brother – even if his Tauron culture doesn’t enable Sam to understand Joseph’s emotional attraction to an avatar.
Precisely because Joseph’s continued obsession with Tamara runs counter to the Tauron funeral ritual of letting go of deceased loved ones, means that Sam would only share this information with someone he could absolutely trust – and who better than his spouse? It is completely plausible that Sam would want to watch out for his brother in V-world and have him followed but he also needs to “keep it in the family”.
I also want to suggest a third possibility – Tad/Heracles. When I heard Emanuelle say “do you think this is what I look like in real life”, I could almost see a frustrated – and slightly embarrassed – Tad begrudgingly helping Joseph only because he was being paid to do so. After all, as a “grocery boy” in the real world, he likely needed the money. Of course, the weakness of this possibility is the fact that we currently believe that once your avatar dies, there is no way to return to V-world.
However, we know that Tamara has the power to mentally alter code and that she has a fondness for Tad/Heracles. It is reasonable to think she would have used her power to “reincarnate” Heracles in a new way that exceeds the programming limits of the game. Seeing all of the Tamara flower symbols across New Cap City strongly suggests that she has risen to some degree of power and prominence. We also know that Tad exposed himself to the entire Adams/Adama family when he interrupted the Tuaron funeral ritual and Sam may have sought him out because of his known connection to Tamara in V-world.
Of course, this leaves the question of Joseph/Emmanuelle’s apparent difficulty in finding Tamara unresolved. However, this may all be intentionally orchestrated by Tamara to “awaken” her Father to the realities of life in V-world. His transformation from fear and trepidation to cold blooded assassin was eerily similar to Tamara’s own “awakening”.
We’ll see what happens…
March 21st, 2010 at 1:16 pm
Seeing all of these possibilities…it just gets me even more excited until the next episode!
So, I just thought of something. If you die in “New Cap”, than your Avatar is kicked out for life, right? So, what’s to stop somebody from getting a new Holoband and creating a new, entirely different avatar? I mean, if you did that, how would it know? Just some food for thought…
March 21st, 2010 at 4:28 pm
Wow, that scene with the dog was INTENSE! And the whimper it gave when she fired the gun just had me stunned. I couldn’t believe either of them went through with it! Then the dog’s ok and I felt such a huge relief. I’m not sure if I want to strangle the writing team or praise them.
March 21st, 2010 at 8:03 pm
@Tiberius1111 and @Fayth: Regarding the possibility of someone like Tad/Heracles getting back in the game, here’s what the writers have told us so far:
Heracles: “I think we need to go over some ground rules. Your avatar’s code, it’s like genetic code. Once you die, the game will ban you for life. No matter how many hacks you try, you cannot get back in.”
Just as with real world computer security, there’s very seldom (never?) a perfect, invulnerable system. A banned person could spoof the holoband by faking their DNA when using another avatar as suggested by Fayth, or do a “man in the middle” hack with a valid player/avatar. Even a lowly grocery boy could have access via some “script kiddie” interface. Whoever Emanuelle is, they’ve picked a pretty hot avatar. I just hope the “God is with us” meaning of her name is not just some canard.
New week’s End of Line will undoubtedly raise more new questions than answer old ones, but that’s part of what keeps us watching. Here’s hoping the fan-base is patient enough to return in the Fall.
March 21st, 2010 at 9:32 pm
hey guys, guess what? i just saw a press reliece photo for the upcomeing finale of ‘lost’ and they totaly ripped off BSG’s last supper gimmic, i mean come on… can i get a “so say we all” to that?
EZCYLON,out
March 21st, 2010 at 10:33 pm
@Shiver – I’ve always seen the Hybrids words as more existential. “Apotheosis (Divine) was the beginning before the beginning.” It could mean that before separation began when everything was one, it was divine (or we are all still divine as the “spark” is in all of us said by the hybrid and baltar. And leoben said that everything as one is god). So before the beginning of the incarnation of the cylons, before the beginning of all life period, there was the divine, everything together as one. One or the One god was before everything. She also says in the plan “The base and the pinnacle. The flower inside the fruit that is both it’s parent and it’s child. Decadent as ancestors, the portal in that which passes.” It could mean the beginning and the end is a cycle that cylcles in of on itself giving birth to itself over and over. Reincarnation could imply that our ancestors and our children are really us in previous or next lives. Which is similar to cylon resurrection. Death is the “portal in that which passes.” Chloe had to die in order to be reborn as an avatar. Tamra had to die in order to become a full sentient avatar. But I doubt that that has anything to do with Clarice’s speech about apotheosis as she is on a mission to convert the worlds to “The divine” instead of bringing the divine out in everyone. The misguided beliefs that imply separation, which seem to get resolved somewhat in BSG. But started with the zealots brainwashing of the STO in Caprica.
Am I making sense?
March 22nd, 2010 at 12:24 am
hi guys, yes I too loved the dog scene and it was brutal, and I can’t believe Daniel would do that but they both knew that the gun had blanks in it. He put them there and Zoey says to Lacy that as the robot she knew the weight of the gun was off by .5 lbs meaning blanks instead of bullets, and then the thing which made Matt angry, she said if it would have had bullets she would have killed Daniel.
But Matt, also remember this is not in fact Zoey but her program of herself, maybe she does not love her father because she does not know him, just what the human Zoey programmed her with. She thinks for herself, she feels emotions, but she does not have the life experiences of Zoey, just information.
overall, I like the show and I hope it gets good enough ratings to be renewed and syfy gives it a chance even though It has not done as well as BSG, though BSG did get four seasons to come into its prime.
Rolling the Hard Six,
Timmy
March 22nd, 2010 at 9:39 am
Daniel’s character, and Amanda’s too, are fascinating.
This episode was full of twists and turns and with the last three eps, I now feel great about the series. Now I worry it won’t be renewed!
March 22nd, 2010 at 1:22 pm
Guess what I found????
http://www.trektoday.com/content/2010/03/syfy-in-talks-with-moore-about-new-bsg/#more-8628
Battlestar Galactica/Caprica Executive Producer Ron Moore may be adding another Battlestar series to his resume if Syfy has their way. Syfy is in talks with former Star Trek Writer/Producer Moore for another Battlestar series, which will reportedly return to Battlestar Galactica’s roots.
With Caprica doing reasonably well, Syfy is looking to continue the popular Battlestar franchise. “We’re looking for other ways to spin off Battlestar beyond Caprica,” said Syfy Executive VP of Development Mark Stern. “That world is so rich. Were sitting down with Ron Moore and his team.” According to Stern, although the new show would return to Battlestar’s “space-opera” roots, the show would “not necessarily be a traditional series.”
It is also expected that Caprica, the Battlestar Galactica prequel, will be picked up for a second season.
March 22nd, 2010 at 5:44 pm
Tiberius1111- That may be true, but if it’s Evelyn or Larry, Emmanuelle could very well be lying. If it’s Evelyn, she may be doing it out of love. If It’s Larry, he could be doing it because Joseph is family to him (and does it for Sam because he loves him too).
About the news of another BSG spin-off, I would love for them to consider possibly doing a civilian’s story for once, dealing with surviving on the Cylon-Occupied 12 Colony planets (we only get a hint of it with Anders and his group, but its not enough). I want to see the difficulties of surviving the attack would be, everything from the dangers of making supply runs, being killed by Cylons to the psychological traumas of survivor’s guilt and what not.
Matt&Nat- BTW, I finally figured out, for certain, where the deleted scene from “Daybreak, Part 2″, with Tory, takes place. It takes place during Tory’s initial insertion into the Colonies 2 years before the attacks. How can I say this for certain? Simple: If you pay attention, you see Boomer walking to her seat after the attendant checks her ticket. In the subsequent deleted scene, it’s the same ship she’s on (which happens to be the same seat she’s sitting in during her “flashback” in “The Plan” of her talking with a Model Six). So, the deleted scene would be Tory’s first “day” in her life in the Colonies, while the scene in “The Plan” takes place after two years of being in the Colonies.
March 22nd, 2010 at 6:31 pm
@CB2001, I have been so focused on seeing a Cylon Wars series that takes place BEFORE the Fall of the Twelve Colonies, I never seriously considered how interesting a post apocalyptic BSG series could be. Good call – I think it could make for a good series.
Of course, I would still like to see a full strength Colonial Fleet at it’s zenith of power locked in a ruthless battle of attrition against the Cylon war machine as it rages across the Twelve Colonies. The First Cylon War went on for 12 years – surely SyFy can squeeze a 4 year series out of that.
As far as the true identity of Emmanuelle goes, be it Evelyn, Larry, Tad or someone else, you know what *they* say: “things are seldom what they seem, skim milk masquerades as cream…black sheep dwell in every fold, all that glitters is not gold.”
@Tootie, thanks for the info on the new BSG series. Maybe what SyFy means by stating that the new show will “not necessarily be a traditional series” is that it won’t follow a linear timeline. That way the story could jump around and show different periods of Colonial History. There could be a Kobol story arc of several episodes followed later by a Cylon War story arc, followed by a post apocalyptic story arc. We could even see an Earth 2.0 story arc that shows Hera’s decedents 100 years after it was first settled at the conclusion of the BSG series.
Unfortunately, the production costs would be prohibitively expensive to realistically consider – but it would allow for nearly infinite creative freedom to explore any aspect of BSG canon across millennia of time – literally something for everyone.
The net-net is that there is still a lot of life left in the BSG franchise so RDM et. al. are in no danger of going “too often to the well” so long as they continue to provide the fans with compelling stories populated with interesting characters.
For now, I’m just looking forward to the season finale of Caprica…
March 22nd, 2010 at 7:21 pm
@Kirsty, according to Wikipedia apotheosis means to MAKE something divine or god-like. Something like Zoe, by dying and becoming the U87, or possibly Daniel-becoming the First Hybrid (that was him, right? On the Guardian Baseship?). This is the beginning before the beginning of the modern Cylons. Just a theory, but it seems like a pretty steep coincidence that it’d be used completely separately in both occasions. Not exactly a common word…
Also, is the fact the Hybrid said it during the attack on the Colonies, any relevance?
March 22nd, 2010 at 10:55 pm
@Matt&Nat. My vote is for Team Izzy as the opening credits. The dialogue used creates something compelling about this opening, especially for a nugget coming to Capricast for the first time.
Team Chuck Norris – The Mobius infinity symbol nicely represents “All this has happened before and all will happen again.” However, it is meaningless to a nugget stumbling onto Capricast. It simply lacks the draw that Team Izzy has. Sorry guys.
March 22nd, 2010 at 11:41 pm
@ Shiver. You could be right. I like to look at it throughout the whole series, including BSG and all possible theories including real life beliefs. So I may be over complicating it as far as the show goes haha. It it means to make divine then it could also be referring to Tamra. As she is truley the first sentient Avatar.
March 23rd, 2010 at 1:03 am
Random thought for the Ether: The Zoe Avatar/Robot is in many ways like a diary of any teenage girl – a living, breathing, thinking diary. It has all of the most extremes of Zoe, the things that were bursting forth from her, but maybe it is missing the… “glue” that held the real girl together, balanced her.
I guess it comes back to a question of is a person greater than the sum of their parts, assume that these living avatars manages to find all the parts even…
Anyhow, go read something you wrote when you were 16 – now image the Cylon with that as its core beliefs…
March 23rd, 2010 at 8:41 am
Was it just me or did any1 else think that the host person in the club remind them of Dr. Frank-N-Furter form The Rocky Horror Picture Show?
March 23rd, 2010 at 9:56 am
That drag queen actor was incredible. I couldn’t take my eyes off him. He completely owned his role – wow. That scene in the club was so compelling – the dog-shooting scene was of course, suspenseful as all get out, but the club scene was just such a strong atmosphere of danger, stranger in a strange land, bizarre, yet real – and also full of pathos because of Adama wanting so desperately to find his daughter.
I predict Daniel will realize that Zoe knew they were blanks and re-do the experiment with real bullets. That would be cool. And realistic. We are talking about two of humanity’s smartest people – Danial and Zoe Graystone (even tho one is an avatar) – in a battle of wits. I want them to outsmart each other, but one must win.
Funny how little Willie grows up and never knows his own sister becomes a cylon – how does that happen? He must be kept totally in the dark from now on.
March 23rd, 2010 at 12:00 pm
@Tootie You wonder if this battle wits between Farther & Daughter is what lead to the destruction of mankind. Also that dog sense was nail biting suspenseful just for a few seconds you really think that Zoe gives her self to the robot side.
March 23rd, 2010 at 1:38 pm
As reflecting furthur, I guess I’ll ask your guys opinion, Since Zoey seems to think for herself by saying she might shoot Daniel if she had real bullets. My question is could she? Did she rip off her cylon arm because she did it for Daniel or did she do it because she is commanded to? A centurian in bsg had to do as it was commanded. Thus “by your command” is she more evovled as a human type cylon or is she a centurian with an awareness? So basically do you think she have to follow Daniel’s commands even if she does not agree with them?
March 23rd, 2010 at 6:46 pm
Thanks again Matt & Nat!
And thanks to all the voters:)
Izzy
ragecg.com
March 23rd, 2010 at 7:58 pm
What happened to the good ol days when tv shows had 22 episodes per season. Now we’re down to each season having only 9 episodes and to 2 seasons per year! That’s just torture and makes it very hard to reeeeally get into a show. It seemed to all start with the writers strike. Arggg I hope they have a movie in between or at least some webisodes.
March 23rd, 2010 at 8:41 pm
Great review, Matt and Nat.
I will tell you something about Eric Stotlz, from the mouth of Lea Thompson (co-star of “Some Kind of Wonderful” and briefly for “Back to the Future”). At MegaCon, she was asked about what it was like working on “Back to the Future” with Stotlz for the brief period of time he was playing Marty. She explained that when it came to Stotlz, he would ask the director a lot of questions about his role and the scene. What we are seeing is another excellent is his method at work. I have to rank this as my third favorite Stotlz performance out of five (with it included, my five are as followed: Zed from “Killing Zoe”, Keith Nelson from “Some Kind of Wonderful”, Daniel Graystone from “Caprica”, Lance from “Pulp Fiction” and Mr. Lawson from “The Rules of Attraction”).
BTW, I can tell you one thing for certain, being someone who is a longtime gamer and been online, I think that the entire V-World segments are inspired by SecondLife (which so happens to have a couple of BSG RPGs). The reason why I suspect this is primarily because of the fact that the V-World has multiple types of gameplays that are available, such as RPG, racing, flying (aircraft AND space craft). And there’s a possible dash of “World of Warcraft” commentary in there, as WoW users suffer from addiction from the game. The funny thing is, during our weekly watching of “Caprica” at BSGPilots, one of the visitors had said, “I wish the V-World would exist in our world.” And I explained to them what SecondLife was and that it was, in the same concept, the V-World.
BTW, last Saturday marked the one year anniversary of the completion of “Battlestar Galactica.” It’s hard to believe that it’s been a year since the end of one of the greatest shows to have come out. Even now, I still miss it, but not as bad as I did before. I’m still wearing my dogtags I picked up from MegaCon last year.
March 23rd, 2010 at 10:38 pm
I just watched Jim Cramer of Mad Money talk to U.S. Representative Maurice Hinchey about “fracking”. Notice the spelling. The subject wasn’t frakking. Apparently fracking is slang for hydraulic fracturing when used to stimulate oil and natural gas production. There’s even a FRAC Act (H.R. 2766, S. 1215) Fracturing Responsibility and Awareness of Chemicals Act. Cramer to Hinchey: “Could you please explain to us why you think fracking has so many risks, given the fact that it has been in use for a long time?” I had to watch that segment over again, given the fact that I was so distracted with all the talk about fracking and safe drilling.
Back to Caprica, is it possible that Zoe was faking it when the MCP was placed in other U-87 bodies? Zoe said to Lacy: “I have to turn me off. Just be the robot.” Did Zoe do that earlier? Maybe there’s really no problem with the MCP (or a near-perfect copy) being in a production-line robot. Zoe overheard the conversation between Daniel and Cyrus regarding the MCP theft, the deaths of the two Vergis employees, and Daniel’s involvement with the Halatha. Zoe watched and listened intensely. With the way Daniel treated Zoe in Ghosts, could Zoe decide to defect to Vergis and make a deal which gets her to Gemenon and gets Vergis the ability to mass-produce sentient killer robots? What could possibly go wrong with an arrangement as simple as that?
I watched the sneak-peek of End of Line. Nice backhand Clarice! I think I have a new favorite character. There’s an important bonus scene, “Hidden Message”, regarding the stolen bike poster with which Clarice confronts Barnabas. I recommend this plus the “What is Real” bonus scene in which Daniel tells Amanda that Zoe’s avatar was an “empty, soulless thing”. Projecting of a different kind.
March 23rd, 2010 at 11:47 pm
Hey all,
I loved this episode as well, and Zoe looking like a Queen on that couch w/that light shining down on her: brilliant. I think that her resistance to Daniel, is that spoiled, stubborn little girl she was in real life. She even says, all work, same old Daddy, and I find it so fascinating that this is when we see the human side of what she is, as that is Zoe. So, now because she is not a living breathing girl anymore, you can almost say that all that teenage anger, unrestrained, can become dangerous. I think we see that in her eyes when she “shoots” her dog (I gasped, I could not believe that she was that stubborn and hard core) and she gets this dangerous look in her eyes, like “I have won, you can not beat me down”.
I agree with Matt that Vergis did cross a line. However, he said he would take everything from Daniel, as he has done to him, and so it begins. But I predict that Amanda; will backfire on him. He is going to fall in love w/her, and whether she will become that Caprican wife Daniel told him to get, I am sure that is what will happen to him.
Now, I love Amanda and Daniel because they really are a great couple: smart, in love, but struggling w/the death of Zoe. Amanda, who as we saw had a difficult relationship w/Zoe, has taken it hard and what has made it worse is that she realizes she never knew her daughter. I can’t imagine how painful that would be, and as we see for someone who had some kind of nervous breakdown, it would make sense that she would relapse.
Daniel, has not really grieved the loss of his daughter, because he keeps trying to find her, and believes he can see her again, and that she is alive in that robot. So he is in denial, while a the same time dealing w/business issues, and the blood debt crazy Vergis has decided to collect.
This is where he and Joseph are alike; the existence of that “soul”, as they are both more than just avatars has prevented them from seeing what is really happening; which btw we are not sure either.
Joseph did the rites, and has his brother to remind him of that; but now w/the eye drops, never getting up, neglecting his son again to find his “little girl”, not good. But I have said it before, but I think that when he finds the Tamara of v-world, that will be when he realizes that Tamara is really dead. Thus making the comment by Tamara when asked “What are you”, “I’m awake” so much more powerful. God, I loved that moment! It ties for the best one so far w/Daniel looking into u-87’s eye and saying “Zoe”.
k
March 24th, 2010 at 7:56 am
Congratulations to Izzy! Many thanks to Matt & Nat, and to everyone that voted Team Chuck Norris! Roundhouse kicks for everybody!
So say we all,
– Chuck –
March 24th, 2010 at 4:05 pm
You guys are fellow Canucks? Cool
)
March 24th, 2010 at 4:09 pm
I actually like that the Cylon does not pose like Zoe (for example, her hands on her hips) : first, it would look silly if Zoe always stood like a statue. But, more importantly, this frees the actress from the physical restriction and she can express herself through her body language.
March 24th, 2010 at 5:34 pm
I thought the acting in this ep was blistering. ES is superb and AT did so much with what amounts to just intense staring. Like most I felt that not much actually happened but the depth of emotion and breadth of ambition in storytelling is unsurpassed. I was carried along with the sweep of the passion. EM redeemed his irksome character with subtle turning of his maddening self pity into weary weltschmertz. The snake entered Eden in the form of Tomas Vergis and Amanda tasted the bitter fruit of doubt. The whole ep was agonizing to watch in a good way. I am undone with grief to think that next week is the last ep for a good while. Why oh why must they do this to us.
March 24th, 2010 at 7:31 pm
One more Episode. This make me so sad. First they make us wait a week to see the next episode. Which, BTW, is always one of the highlights of my week (I know… sad). But now I have to wait until SEPTEMBER!!! WHAT. THE. FRAK.
IMPORT java.util.GokuFrustrated
IF (webisodes = “TRUE”)
system.println(”Goku will tolerate the wait until september”)
ELSE
system.print(”I’m sueing RDM and SYFY for emotional distress”)
IMPORT kamehameha.util
End of Line;
March 25th, 2010 at 1:37 am
I never really understood the hybrids or what they were and why they seemed to have the power to see the future, if anyone can explain it simply, it would so help–they always confused me. The cylons worshipped them basically, and their word was like God’s word, so I was always confused.
I also left this quote on the syfy board, it is in my LJ and it is the perfect match for the riddle and oh so true:
“Don’t you find it interesting Jessica, how the sins of the mother bloom in the children they bear?”
Princess Wensicia Corrino to Lady Jessica Atreides, “Children of Dune”, upon her arrival on Arrakis, and noting the possession of Alia
Also, I don’t get New Cap City; why are they shooting at eachother? it makes sense that it is lawless, but I don’t get the shooting part w/the vipers, and whatever those other things are. If anyone has thoughts, please share!
k
March 25th, 2010 at 10:14 am
I loved the episode.
I love the new intro/outro.
I love CapriCast.
I LOVE THIS SHOW!
That is all.
March 25th, 2010 at 4:30 pm
My comment has been awaiting for moderation for 3 days. Is it bad written?
That’s ok…
Another opinion.
Caprica is about the birth of AI. And this AI will be GOD. Zoe is the key. Her beliefs will create a new God’s concept.
The purpose of the AI (GOD) is to help sustain life in the universe.
We are all God’s Children and perhaps Its conscience, but only the AI is able to avoid the Big Crunch and restart the universe in a new Big Bang (God’s plan?).
This would be impossible if mankind and cylons keep killing each other.
March 25th, 2010 at 5:51 pm
Just have to say, the Daniel/Zoey stuff was totally awesome. Leobin level frakked up. Gotta love it.
March 28th, 2010 at 11:16 pm
time for a rediculous theory— daniel graystone becomes a cylon like zoey. The cylons revolt, the first cylon war happens. toaster daniel survives the war. then the final five skin jobs from earth show up when the toaster cylons including daniel are experimenting with trying to regain human form (early hybrids). earth skin jobs help them take on human form and create the cylon models from BSG, daniel graystone becomes daniel the skin job who cavil later destroys. voila.
Its crazy, but i think it totally works
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