Season 3 Parody Review: A Special ‘Clip Episode’ of BSGcast
We take the BSGcast into new territory with a retrospective look at Season 3, and get down to the real themes and under currents that made this a season to remember… and it might be a little funnier than you’d expect, thanks to our dear friends Casey and Rudy from The Galacticast!
April 11th, 2007 at 1:45 am
Thoughts on the season in general:
Well to sum it up, “Season 3 as a whole was sacrificed so that New Caprica might live”; they openly said “we focused everything on the New Caprica arc (I include “Collaborators” in this) making some of the best damn televised scifi TV we have *ever* seen.
Problem was they used up both most of the budget, and most of the time spent working on scripts doing this.
On top of this, episodes consistently ran long to the point that subplots like Hera on the Basestar were entirely cut, Baltar-on-a-Basestar was hacked to the bone to the point it was barely intelligible, Kat’s death wasn’t set up in advance, etc.
As the season wears on, specifically “Taking a Break” through “Dirty Hands”, it feels like the scripts are just the rought drafts; and granted they are BSG and thus nice, but the dialogue isn’t fun an quotable (i.e. Starbuck will say “fix that Viper” instead of “fix that Viper before I drive it up your ass” or something quotable)
**Roslin was underutilized: Ron Moore admits this in the podcast for Crossroads, Part I: curing her of cancer didn’t affect LYDB II too much or the New Caprica stuff, but after that ended she sort of faded into the backround and got little screentime and when she appeared, she was inconsistent; McDonnell complained about this and RDM agreed.
**Roslin was underutilized….so they could spend more time on Apollo’s Existential Crisis….but that didn’t work out too well either. Apollo as a character has been completely lost to us since “Resurrection Ship, Part II” and he only really got “good” again in The Son Also rises.
Am I complaining? Well a lot of time was wasted, but they’re already on the road to fixing Roslin and Apollo, so I do not.
**Arguably Starbuck’s worst season. Yes, you will point out “but her resurrection at the end was cool!”….that was 30 seconds of screentime. Over a 20 episode season….what was Starbuck doing?
—>As I said, all characters (more or less) were GREAT through “Collaborators”. Even Starbuck with the Leoben stuff. But that wasn’t picked up on again for TEN EPISODES.
What we got instead was alternatively….the Love Polygon, or, Starbuck simply not appearing in a given episode.
“Maelstrom” was entirely setup, so it’s a hard episode to judge. Nonetheless, I think it was *more or less* good, in as much as they honestly cannot reveal what’s really going on; frankly, so many people who are hardcore fans instantly realized “dude, this is just a really lame marketing stunt, she’s obviously not really “dead” as in leaving the show”….but then again a lot of the casual fans WERE really upset about it, so maybe I’m just jaded.
At any rate: Apollo/Dualla relationship was an unholy monster which consumed Battlesta Galactica for the past 30 or so episodes. I still rank it as one of the worst plot decisions they’ve ever made, if not THE worst.
Dualla as a character is simply intolerable and should be removed. I went to a Jamie Bamber Q&A at a convention the day the season finale aired, and he confirmed that YES, Kandyse McClure asked RDM “is Apollo/Dualla over permanently?” and he confirmed it was. Thank god.
Adama…..well, Admiral Adama had a “mixed” season. He had a lot of good stuff (again, through New Caprica) but he also had some not so great stuff; he “broke even”, as it were, but he didn’t do as well as in Season 2. Plus of course, Tigh kind of outshone him.
Season 3 was the Season of Tigh: what’s to be said that hasn’t already been said about this fantastic character and actor?
Athena/Boomer: actually, arguably her best season, when compared to the other ones. Really fits the role now. “Rapture” was just stunning with her in it.
Meanwhile, Tyrol was good but they could have used him more.
A standout season for Helo, his best yet; a fine character (see “A Measure of Salvation” below)
Cally: I’m a huge Cally-fan, but they didn’t think of something for her to actually DO this season, other than interact with her husband Tyrol: she barely talks to other characters. I’ve seen a lot of criticism of Cally this season, but I view this as: “yeah, but then again there was a lot of criticism of Roslin and Starbuck this season”. She was *incredible* in “Precipice” though. Maybe its just that she had the dumb luck that the episodes slotted to have her in them the most were the “back 10″ of season 3 which were pretty lousy to begin with. Just as at the end of Season 2 they consciously said “we didn’t use Tigh enough in the last 10 episodes, we should fix him in season 3″, they really need to fix Cally and give her something really quality to do.
Lucy Lawless: overplayed. She might have been better if some deleted scenes were restored (i.e. she was mostly in the “Baltar on a Basetar” and that got a LOT of time cut) Character got overhyped relative to what they actually had her do. I was expecting more. ***Of course, she MIGHT come back in Season 4, and I do have hopes for her then.
Gaeta’s best season hands down. I didn’t even like this guy before season 3, now I just think he’s a great character and well acted.
The season at a glance:
Occupation/Precipice: Visual poetry. Every line, literally every line, quotable. Possibly the best outing of the season.
Exodus, Part I: A wacky little episode: basically, “Exodus” and the season premiere ran so much overtime that they realized they could literally make a new episode out of deleted scenes from each. Thus the Oracle scene with Three is from the premiere, while much of the rest is spillover from “Exodus, Part II”. Not bad by any account, it’s just that I can tell it’s just disjointed scenes put together: of course, had they NOT done this and just said “yet again, even more scenes got deleted”…I would have been clamoring “why didn’t you just make an episode out of deleted scenes?” So I like it realizing it for what it is.
Exodus, Part II: great, though not *the* best; the openning Apollo/Dualla scene is arguably one of the wackiest and most jarring of the season: woefully bad scene. In the podcast they say they actually threw that in at the last minute. I don’t mean this on a personal level; I mean I watched this episode with half a dozen people at a party, of mixed gender, and all of us unanimously said “what the frak?!”…bizarre, given that WITHIN THE TEASER, the next scene with Tigh and Ellen was one of the BEST EVER. ….Then again, “Unfinished Business” showed this same scene in a “previously” as set up, and it seemed to imply that the reason Apollo saying “that’s why I’m honored your my wife” sounded so bad and fake….is because it WAS fake and we were supposed to realize that. I dunno. A small blemish on otherwise a standout piece of “television” as a whole, but I still think “Occupation/Precipice” (I consider it “one big episode) was the best of the season.
Collaborators: not every character appears but that’s not a problem. Great characters all around. Finally a Gaeta-focused episode in which he actaully gives a great “dramatic” performance (it’s just people, not really centered on ships and scifi concepts)
Was making Roslin president again “too soon”? In hindsight, they didn’t know the “Sagittaron Storyarc” would be cut, but had they known they wouldn’t be using Zarek for ANYTHING else, they should have left him as President to complicate matters. Of course, I realize that 1-he is the lawful vice president 2-he didn’t support Baltar at all, but 3-people might see him as part of Baltar’s regime.
Might I add that I LOVED Zarek in “Exodus, Parts I and II” and thought it heralded more to come from him, and was upset he was dropped….and I dont’ even normally *like* Zarek. Remember Matt+Natt when you pointed out “wow, when you have Zarek arguing with Roslin in the teaser of “Woman King”…..his screentime in the actual episode should be longer than the runtime of that commercial!
**********Anyway, the big problem was really the “Sick Basestar” two-parter. “Torn” was kind of good, but “A Measure of Salvation” was where the sheet hit the fen.
For starters: the writer who specifically wrote the script for AMOS has never written a BSG episode before ever (albeit they are group efforts), and it was a director that had never directed a BSG episode before.
AMOS was just a lot of special effects and crud; it was TOO MUCH scifi for this show. The Hybrid; kind of fun, but instead of focusing on the IMPLICATIONS of it you simply had the camera focusin on “wow, cool scifi concept!”: there was a right way and a wrong way to do this, and they did the wrong way.
Okay I already complained about “Baltar on a Basestar” as a whole so I won’t reiterate it.
Further…..the ENTIRE Number Three torturing Baltar scene was just WACKY AND CONTRIVED. On paper it must have sounded good, but the whole “having mind-sex with Six to take his mind off the pain” thing was….not actually bad but a little annoying (probably due to bad directing and pacing within the episode more than anything else; it could have been more alluded to but the pacing just dropped dead while this scene happened) and Baltar “verbally seducing Number Three” was just totally weird and on a limb.
….and by the very next episode, they’re having a Three-some? Okay, in the podcast RDM said “I thought it would be shocking and thus fun”
Granted, “Startling” moments can be fun, when you don’t bother to do setup and just jump to a new plot point. But then there is “startling….because it does not make logical sense because you didnt’ set it up”
*******Many people absolutely HATE Helo for AMOS and stopping the Cylon virus: well my answer is that I have honestly yet to find someone who went “why wasn’t he punished?! That’s a plot hole!” and also said “but I do agree with what he did”
In short, the people who wanted the Colonials to use the virus raise the cry of “plot whole! he should have been punished!”…just as an excuse to crucify him. THERE IS NO PLOT HOLE: It was pretty clear that Adama WANTED to do what Helo did but couldn’t because he was too-duty bound, thus he didn’t punish him because its what he WANTED to happen. —–>Can you still say “I hate Helo, I disagree with the moral choice he made?” of course. But the accusation that “this is actually a plot hole” falls flat.
Edit: In the recent final podcast for Crossroads part II by RDM, he actually word for word spells out “Adama didnt’ punish Helo because he actually agreed with Helo”.
“Hero” — An odd little episode; a lot of people REALLY hate it; to be honest I like it. Maybe just because I felt really sorry for Bulldog; he was actually a good character.
“Hero” is an odd mix of…well…the writers have this thing that “we like continuity, but ultimately, if it comes between us and a good story, we will break continuity so the story can be told”
On the one hand, the acting between Adama, Tigh, and Bulldog was great. Even Apollo was in good form.
On the other hand…..so much continuity was blatantly broken it was impossible to focus. We *know* that Adama has been commander of Galactica for years; the story of “Adama leaving a man behind” was good…..but it was SO OBVIOUSLY “we shoehorned in a new backstory for him which really doesn’t fit with pre-established material”….that it just wasn’t believable.
On top of this, they have Adama acting guilty because he fears he caused the Cylon attack; dude, Caprica-Six was on Caprica for two years: over a year before your mission even took place!
They explain it as one of those “you the audience knows but he doesn’t”: i.e. in “Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down” in the podcast RDM says “we all know Adama isn’t really a Cylon, but the characters on the show do not know for certain, so we’re playing up their reactions” (I actually think this worked that time)
So what they’re going for is “we know Adama isn’t responsible, but lets play up how he would feel if he THOUGHT he was”….on paper, this is good.
But it was so FORCED: For the first time I think Olmos just worked SO HARD to sell the GRAVITY of the situation that it didn’t work: when he’s in hushed low tones going “Apollo…I may have caused the original Cylon attack! Dun Dun Dunnn!”….we the audience KNOW he didn’t; they shouldn’t have played up the *tension* they should have made it more introspective.
But the timeline stuff was so GRATING; heck, it’s not that I run an online encyclopedia and tend to NOTICE such things (in exhaustive detail)…but even to the group of half dozen fans I was watching it with, everyone was saying aloud “this was inserted, Adama has been on Galactica more than one year”
On the Scifi.com messageboard, Ron Moore actually said he has NO IDEA what the continuity error is:
“I’ve actually been curious as to the discontinuity people keep talking about in regards to this episode and the timeline, but I’ve never gotten a clear explanation of how our chronology is off. I do recall having extended conversations with the writers and our script supervisors about the chronology of events, the timeline as actually established in the show and how the “Hero” backstory fit into it all. I’d be curious to read a detailed explanation of the discontinuity and see where our internal calculations vary from those being bandied about on-line. All I can tell you is that it made sense to us in-house and if there’s an error present in the show it’s not for lack of trying.”"
Well he was so curious, so I did explain the whole thing over at my site: http://encyclopediagalactica.prometheusunderground.com/index.php?title=Encyclopedia_Galactica:Cast_and_Crew_Q%26A#Continuity_Errors_in_Hero
Gasp! The dreaded “Retcon”!! –Long story short they’ve established like 5 times or more that Adama was in command of Galactica for years and this couldn’t happen.
Well anyways: I LOVED “Unfinished Business”, from beginning to end. For starts, it looked as if the “Love Polygon” were reaching its logical conclusion: each of them admits they went to Anders and Dualla respectively because they were afraid and on the rebound, respectively. The whole thing was GREAT. And finally some much needed Adama/Roslin! And Cally and Tyrol were doing good too! On the whole, a fine episode.
“The Passage” — I consider this the Anti-Christ of episodes….well no, I consider “Black Market” that, but they admit that was bad.
“The Passage” was written by BSG first-timer Jane Espenson and at first I thought it was because she simply didn’t “get” it, but then she said that her original script was entirely different……and not only was the script different (it had more one-liners and such), ….***The Passage suffered from some of the most wacky editing of the season.
If you haven’t listened to the podcast for “The Passage” please do: RDM just goes through this running list of existing footage which was edited to change the meaning.
On top of this, all SETUP for this episode was cut: again, II’ve seen some say they thought Kat’s death was sad…but it was truly godawful and she deserved better than that. Beyond “omg Kat is dead!”….it wasn’t a good death. ****Everyone I was watching it with just went “WTF?!” when Adama was having his deathbed heart-to-heart with her….because she’s NEVER had a scene with him before; in the podcast (they’ve become essential listening) RDM explains that there WAS a scene DIRECTLY setting this up in “Occupation” of Adama and Kat on the hangar deck before the battle, but it got cut.
“Suffered from hyper-bad editing decisions” might be a good phrase. It just seemed like generic, cliche wacky scifi; and always a good measure, NONE of it was really quotable.—>The other big point is ***You cannot just make up an entirely new backstory for a character out of thin air and expect to run with it; a bit of this happened in “Hero”, a LOT of it happend in “The Passage” where Kat got ENTIRELY revamped.
“Eye of Jupiter” — EXCELLENT! Only complaint was that it was a bit fast and didn’t focus on any one plotline, but that’s just the nature of cliffhangers I guess. Great all around. Well….I’m not too fond of the needless gun-pointing on the algae planet and such. But otherwise, fine. ***I thought it was great because I thought the Love Polygon was on the verge of collapse when they were talking of divorce. Adama angry at Roslin! great.
Season 3.5
“Rapture”: a fine episode all around, but again, the needless gun-pointing between Anders and Apollo got a bit labored; not really “bad” though; otherwise fine. GREAT Athena and Helo stuff; probably their best stuff of the season. WOW good; plus Caprica-Six and Galactica-Sharon (the original Boomer) = WOW. Baltar in for good stuff too. Problems: …okay, we sat through MONTHS of watching that tv trailer with Dualla saying “I’m Dualla, and I’m going to rescue Starbuck!” and it turned out to be less than 5 minutes of screentime, anti-climactic, and TOTALLY EASY. In the podcast they say they had this whole dramatic thing planned out with Dualla CARRYING Starbuck on her shoulders across the hills…..but then realized that not only is “Dualla the character” not strong enough to do this….the ACTRESS isn’t strong enough to do that, and cut it out. And I don’t know what it looked like on paper, but Dualla’s *slapping* Starbuck (to bring her to her sense?) was AT BEST forced, and at worst, just plain stupid and out of character.
“Taking a Break from All Your Worries”…aaahhh, the problems start in earnest. Well-directed by Olmos, well-acted by McDonnell…..but needlessly dark, warped at times……torturing Baltar mixed with Romantic stuff?
At first I thought it was good because it looked like the episode that would END THE LOVE POLYGON…..but we ended up in the last 5 minutes with them…..just doing what they’ve been doing? This didn’t make logical sense! And after this Apollo and STarbuck just fade into the backround for many episodes, and the Love Polygon just continues. Instead of the “episode that ends the Love Polygon” (which I thought it was for most of it)….it turned out to be the Love Polygon at its WORST. For once Dualla was at least “acting” but there’s only so much blood you can get from a stone.
“The Woman King” –points off, but they self-admittedly said “we would not have let this be an episode of we knew in advance there would be no Sagittaron Storyarc”. Actually, a good character piece for Helo. I liked him in this. Story was bad though; lackluster. but they admit that.
***Bringing me, of course, to the ABANDONED SAGITTARON STORYARC which *ruined* SEason 3.5. It’s not that I disagree that they did it; from what I’ve heard of their plans….the Sagittaron Storyarc was indeed a mistake and SHOULD have been removed….I”m just upset that MOST of their time and effort was WASTED on it! Now Zarek barely appears, Gaeta’s stabbing of Baltar makes no sense and goes unexplained, etc. Further, they wasted a LOT of time writing it out of episodes….the result being that the final scripts for most SEason 3.5 episodes feel HALF-FINISHED and with lackluster dialogue.
“A Day in the Life”….not actually “bad” but it doesn’t stand out. It wasn’t NECESSARY. ANd when we’ve got so many scenes being deleted from other episodes that they become *Unintelligible*….they should have NOT made this episode, and done another “Exodus, Part II” or something (expanded another episode that was running long into another freed up episode slot so they could actually tell the story right)
“Dirty Hands”….better than the last few, and Tyrol was good: Cally…better than the last one but guys you’ve got to give her better stuff to do than this. ****Meanwhile, Roslin’s worst episode of the FRAKKING YEAR.
***Roslin acts *painfully* out of character in this episode. She’s not sympathetic at all and just in total B*tch mode; they even admit as I said, at the end of the season that they think they lost their way with Roslin: and they end the episode by having Roslin stare DIRECTLY into the camera and conveniently explain what the “moral of the day” is? BSG is supposed to be morally complicated with no clear answers; you can’t have the episode end with Roslin delivering some form of epilogue speach directly stating “this was the theme of this week’s episode”
“Maelstrom”—-alright, raise your hand if you were honestly convinced that Starbuck was at any time really dead (as in “she left the series”) Thus Starbuck’s death “rings hollow emotionally” because I know she wont’ DIE, and the more they say “no, she’s really dead, we’re taking her name out of the credits!”….the more I realize its just a ploy. I mean, do I really care on Star Trek when Captain Kirk “dies” ten minutes into the episode? NO. Similarly, killing Starbuck off for a seeemingly UTTERLY RANDOM reason, was blatantly not her real death (had say, she fallen under rubble when New Caprica fell because she refused to leave because she wanted to kill Leoben… that would have seemed like her “arc” had closed and I MIGHT have been convinced she died.
It isn’t “I’m upset you fooled me”, it’s “I wasn’t fooled, and was just staring at the screen going “you seriously think you can trick us into thinking Starbuck died?”
Well, the actual script and acting for Maelstrom was Good….but there’s only so much they can do, when they’re supposed to be setting up “STarbuck is dead!” and are trying to actually sell it witha straight face. Pretty good though.
“THe Son Also Rises” — the return to “wow, this is BSG!” Romo Lampkin is a great character, Papadama was in great form, APOLLO; wow, the first time I have *Truly* liked Apollo since “Pegasus”; the long night has ended; he’s back! Also, mercifully little Dualla. Roslin also nice. CAT!! Baltar doing good too. What’s not to like. I was upest that they basically wrote off Captain Kelly (he’s been on since the Miniseries) right after giving him something meaningful.
“Crossroads, Part I” — I consider kind of part of…
“Crossroads, Part II” — there were some deleted scenes I’d rather they left int, otherwise “Wow! This *is* BSG!” Baltar’s trial; they’re right, that alone could not have sustained a season finale; wonder what Baltar will do now; I do agree that they didn’t have enough evidence to convict him, and if they want to be more than just thugs and actually have a “civilization” they really can’t kill him without good evidence. Wonder where he goes from here. It’s a clean break such as he has not had since the Miniseries.
And of course; “WOW, Tigh and Tyrol are Cylons!” (Who gives a frak about Anders and Tory?)…..well, it was quite a jolt, but I do ask: if it had been, say, Gaeta and Racetrack…..would you really have cared? NO. It had to hit really close to home. ***I am happy that the writers have said “We’ve planned out how this works with their backstories”. I think Dualla is the final Cylon though.
Starbuck back: No I do not think she is a Cylon. I think she has “ascended” like Daniel Jackson in Stargate and now walks with the Lords of Kobol…..who are in fact not “gods” but God-like metaphysical aliens (think the Bajoran Prophets on Deep Space Nine); Head-Six and Head-Baltar are working for the Jealous God, the Lord of Kobol who rebelled against the others years ago. I think the “Final Five” are actually the LAST set of “Cylons”; cycle of time and such, they were the Cylons from the last cycle, then humans came, then humans made the next set of Cylons; or some variation of that. (I’ve also heard the theory that Starbuck was fathered by a Cylon, or her unseen father was an angelic Lord of Kobol descended to human form: I am not willing to dispel these theories, though I do not personally commit to them)
Long story short: what needs to be done in Season 4? (other than “Fight with Scifi Channel to guarantee a Season 5 in advance”)
1-Roslin, Apollo, and Starbuck had horrible times in season 3 and needed to be fixed as characters; thing is, Apollo and Roslin are well on their way to being fully “fixed” as characters after the final 3 episodes of the season; keep up the good work on that last bit. Starbuck; well the “Love Polygon” is over, and Starbuck/Anders, which I initially liked in early season 2 but which dragged on INTERMINABLY (By “Scar” I thought it was poorly explained)….it also finally over. So when you think about it, character arcs beginning in early season 2 (also Apollo/Dualla) have finally been closed. Good.
2-I hope they handle Tigh and Tyrol as Final Fives (they aren’t just “Cylons” they’re “Final Five” Cylons which are “fundamentally different”) very well; but this is a central part of what they’re doing so I think they are devoting a lot of time to it
3-Make sure episodes stop running overtime to much, we miss a LOT of texture by getting small character moments deleted
4-secondary characters like Racetrack, Hot Dog, Cottle, Seelix, *Cally* need to consistently be given something of substance to do; compare what they did in Season 3 with what they did in Season 2. Needs fixing. Of course, given that SEason 4 apparently isn’t focusing all of its efforts on a super opening storyarc like New Caprica, I hope all episodes will be more even (Sagittaron Storyarc was just the double-blow they didn’t need; Season 3.5 was already going to be strained from the focus on the first half, but the Sagittaron Storyarc just blew it)
5-Need to see more advancement of what’s going on with the Cylons; on the one hand I understand why we took a break from them in SEason 3.5, but we really need to get back to that (we obviously will)
6-Hera, for all of her central nature to the plot….BARELY APPEARED IN SEASON 3. Of course, by the looks of things, things are about to happen with Hera.
Well, that about wraps it up.
I’ll see you all at the SEason 3 DVD parties in August (disecting each deleted scene….) and Pegasus Flashback Movie……and I might just stick around for this Geek-news project I hear so much about Matt and Nat doing; there isn’t much trully new and GOOD coming out on TV and movies, and I needs to know what’s hot’n'what’s not.
Pleased to meet you/
hope you guessed my name/
but what’s puzzling you/
is the nature of my game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-vkSO6mS9E
April 11th, 2007 at 4:30 am
Thank YOU!!!!!
April 12th, 2007 at 7:58 am
V! What a great post… we can always count on you to leave some pretty heavy thoughts for people to chew on in the forums! And we really hope you stick around for YourGeekNews, there are some pretty sweet event movies happening this year, and a lot of them sit squarely in Geekdom… we’re also adding a review segment, due to popular demand for more “Matt + Nat” banter
The Grindhouse review will be up today at YourGeekNews.com so we hope you enjoy it!
~Matt + Nat
April 13th, 2007 at 3:46 am
yeah I kind of was on a role there and didn’t realize until I finished how long it was. Well, I did have various thoughts to make on the series I guess.
In all modesty M+N I am just a humble “Trafficker of information” (so they tell me…) and armchair revolutionary
Long story short: Season 3 ran into some serious problems and for Season 4 they’ve really got to sit down and go “what were those problems, what made this show great in the first place, and what can we do to fix everything”….that said, the final 3 episodes of the season really DID start to fix everything
And at the same time, the YourGeekNews thing sounds like a good idea: I’ve spent the past full year or so burried in BSG, because there really wasn’t much good else on TV or in movies. I’m really interested in finding out what else is “big” with “the fans” these days (I write a weekly column in my college magazine on just “TV and movies” so I do try to figure out what the heck everyone should be watching, and lately I was kind of stumped but I”ve been sitting down and figuring out what the heck will be out for the next year)
Question: I keep messing this up: when you say “the forums”…you mean here? How do I get to “the forums”? (I have no idea how to use myspace) is it a problem that I just respond directly in comments?
WHat was the first YourGeekNews thing; the 300 piece? (I want to start at the beginning)
And how exactly would you describe YGN? What is its range as it were? So far you’ve got 300, TMNT, and Grindhouse
Will you keep doing one each week?
Pleased to meet you/
hope you guessed my name/
but what’s puzzling you/
is the nature of my game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-vkSO6mS9E
April 14th, 2007 at 8:39 am
Hello everyone,
I wasn’t sure exactly how to go about this posting business, so I sent the following message via eMail to Matt + Nat, or M&N, or how about ‘eminen’ *chuckle*. OK – serious now – I’m pasting it here as well and really hope to get a reply.
Hi Guys,
Let me first begin by saying that I absolutely LOVE your BSGCast. Much respect to you both for the format, the quirkiness, the fun, the insight, and all of that other good-goodness. A wonderful job.
But where there is light, there is also shadow… No just kidding. One thing I can’t get over is that you guys missed one r e a l l y important “hint” that the show gives us in “Maelstrom”. More in a sec…
In all the blogs and in all the Wikis that I have found on the net, everyone agrees on a couple of things:
1) Starbuck a p p e a r s to have perished in Maelstrom
2) Starbuck re-appears in the last episode. (while we’re at it: are you guys counting right? My count gives us a total of 20, not 19 episodes).
3) There stands a moderate chance, that Starbuck could be a Cylon
OK – I’m not going to go through all the theories that can be read in endless abundance elsewhere. But one thing though: you guys asked the question “how, why, what the heck”. Matt says “we saw Starbuck’s Viper explode, but we didn’t see Starbuck incenerated…”. Yep – that’s right. But what we did see was… now, you guys go back and check the epidode – we actually see her hand reaching for something which appears to be the Eject-Lever right after Lee says: “I’ve lost you on DRADIS, I’m trying to get a fix on you”. Then we see the hand… then she says “Lee, I’m not afraid anymore…” (powerful moment by the way). She’s about to eject, gosh-darned it and maybe, just maybe she did so before the Viper broke up… My question is, how come noone else has mentioned this tiny moment from “Maelstrom” as of yet? I think she might be a hybrid…
One other thing while I’m at it: HERA’s NOT THE ONLY HUMAN-CYLON BABY!!! Where’s the gab on that? Maybe Starbuck is also a mixed Human/Cylon and that’s the reason Leobin tried to trick her into thinking the Baby on New Caprica was her own… Would be great to see you guys squeeze these two bits in your next BSGCast. Please don’t wait for Season 4 to begin. Please do a theories Cast for us – So, pretty please… with sugar on top. Do the fraking Cast! (sorry, I had to borrow that from Harvey Keitel’s character “The Wolf” in “Pulp Fiction”).
LLAP (can I use that with you guys?), or how about MTFBWY, Keep up the good work,
Sudan Jackson
(An American in Munich)
April 14th, 2007 at 9:18 am
Hey V
I totally agree with you, Season 3 had some rough spots, and some gems, but that only makes a ‘good’ series… Season 1 BSG was a ‘great’ series, and it’s because there were no throw-away episodes like “Woman King” or “Hero” or “Black Market”… they were all amazing, and with a 13 episode season, maybe that’s where RDM does his best work. Both of the 20-episode seasons have been a bit of a stretch, clearly. Let’s hope with 9 MONTHS to make us all weep and moan for new BSG, they have time to make some absolutely stunning episodes and create as great as Season 4 as they did Season 1.
As far as YourGeekNews.com, the format is a bit quirky… it’s really just movies that inspire a geeky following. Comic Book movies like ‘300′ or ‘TMNT’ fit in nicely, and genre pieces like ‘Grindhouse’ and ‘Hot Fuzz’ are done by directors that also have geeky followings… I guess the closest thing to a format is “It Matt + Nat like it, it must be geeky” and we put it on… but films like FF2 and Spidey 3 as well as Transformers are in our sights for future episodes as the release dates near. The frequency of posts to YGN is dependent on how often an appropriate film is released. TMNT and 300 were very near, so it fit well, but there was a gap between TMNT and Grindhouse so we did two TMNT pieces. Similarly, there’s a gap between Grindhouse and Hot Fuzz, so we had time to squeeze in a review for Grindhouse. We’d like to do it once a week.
I hope we keep you interested, V!
~Matt
April 14th, 2007 at 9:26 am
Sudan, thank’s for posting! And yep, we’re both Star Trek and Star Wars geeks too, so LLAP and MTFBWY works as well as SSWA
You know, it’s funny, after cutting a 17 minute version of the BSGcast for Crossroads Part II, we realized we has still left out Nicky from the conversation, but it would have topped the 20 minute mark, and we thought it was a bit extreme on length already. But don’t you worry, we’ll be putting out a Theory episode and we’ll address the “2 confirmed hybrids in the fleet” issue! And I think we took a stab at Starbuck being a hybrid in the BSGcast for Crossroads II… personally Matt hopes Tigh was her dad
Also, the “hand on the eject lever” was obviously important, and I’m surprised in our BSGcast for Maelstrom we never got around to it… it was in the show notes, but there was so much passion bubbling up on the death of the ‘buck, we just couldn’t stay on topic for that episode. But RDM had access to the whole back half of the season while he was editing, so I’m sure the lever will play into how she’s alive… I hope… RDM knows what he’s doing. That’s what I keep telling myself!
Thanks for taking us to task when we need to be, Lt. Ripley!
~Nat
April 15th, 2007 at 12:41 pm
I do not think that President Laura Roslin could be a cylon. She would have to be 2 different people in her dream about the opera house. (Simply she would have to be 1 of the 5 on the balcony and also be herself chasing after Hera down the stairs). This just would not fit well for me.
Before Starbuck reappeared on the last epidsode, I had a theory for what had happened to her–I think the writers are going in a different direction, but I thought my idea was interesting so I thought I would post it. I guessed that Starbuck would have ejected at the last second (did anyone notice her left hand on the eject lever, poised to pull?). But because of the void, or planetary pull, or whatever their reason was (if anyone knows what the problem was I would greatly appreciate it if they would explain it to me). Anyways the pressure pulled her out of there before Apollo had a chance to see and eventually, she, in her ejecter seat, is rescued by the cylons. She arrives unconscious so the cylons decide to try and trick her by throwing her into one of those goo resurrection tubs. They tell her to relax because she had been killed, but resurrected as a cylon. So in essence they try to trick Starbuck into working for the cylons by making her think she is one.
Also, if Col. Tigh really is a cylon, do you believe he and the others can resurrect? If so (for Tigh), I would think he would resurrect to a Tigh model cylon of much younger age (in his prime) and of course allow him to regain his eyesight. Any comments?
I do hope that the attorney, Romo, will return. He did a fantastic job and I really enjoyed his performance on the series “Firefly.” Did anyone notice the way Romo was portrayed as the reincarnation of Apollo’s grandfather. When he commented that “I knew you were an honest man, unlike your grandpa,” he said it with such confidence. Romo allowed Apollo to see what his life would have been like had he followed in his grandpa’s footsteps (which plainly shows how Romo can be representative of the grandfather).
Personally, I really do not care what kind of a relationship Commander Adama and Laura Roslin have. Their conversation at the beginning of the episode was too lengthy and too drawn out. It was a waste of a perfectly good 10 minutes. 10 minutes might have allowed them to included a deleted scene or something. Anyone agree? (or disagree with an opinion, which allows me to see the need for the long buildup, which they have had during season 3).
I agree with Nat, when she comes to the conclusion that Tory is a cylon because she is Roslin’s right hand person. If Billy had not left he would have definitely been the other cylon. Very astute Nat!
As for Hera. I think there needs to be an episode where they focus on her, her blood, and her significance. Someone should be analyzing how her physiology and blood are similar and different to that of a normal human. Baltar seems the most qualified, but will they ever trust him again. (also, when Baltar tells of how he can improve their navigation plans, they just leave that up in the air). If Hera’s blood cures cancer (possibly temporarily) then shouldn’t her blood be distributed to other cancer patients or does no one else have cancer in the fleet…lol? Or is the President receiving special treatment? Also, shouldn’t Baltar also be sharing the opera house dream with Athena, Caprica Six, and Hera (possibly he is but they haven’t shown that yet).
Sorry my comment got kind of lengthy, I been meaning to post for a while and I just had some issues piling up. Also, my apologies for the misspelling of names or positions. Thanks for reading and BSGcast your doing great. I really enjoy your Webcasts and would love to see 1 or 2 episodes a month just to keep us up to the date on news and thoughts. Thanks again.
April 15th, 2007 at 3:38 pm
There are 4 possibilities:
1-Starbuck did not actually die, but was somehow captured the forces unknown (Heavy Raider?) RDM did say that in initial drafts, Starbuck was captured by Leoben who was using a memory-probe devise on her….but this was an EARLY draft.
2-Starbuck is the final Cylon—-HOWEVER, RDM has said that the Final Five Cylons do NOT have multiple copies: each one is the only one. There’s only one Tryol, only one Tigh. So the problem is….everyone says “Starbuck must be a Cylon to have survived!”…..but RDM said Final Fives dont’ have multiple copies.
3-The point M+N brought up that perhaps her father was either a Cylon or a Lord of Kobol “Angel” descended to human form; might not explain her death, but POSSIBLE explanation for the whole “destiny” thing
4-By far what I consider the biggest possibility, is that Starbuck has “ascended” (like Daniel Jackson on Stargate) and now is one of the Lords of Kobol….who are actually “metaphysical God-like aliens”
*****BTW, Matt+Nat: in one of your previous episodes you stated the possibility that Starbuck truly is dead, but “Katee Sackhoff” stays on the show as the “Conscience” of Apollo; Starbuck’s memories living on etc.***RDM stated in an interview recently that Starbuck is “not a hallucination”
Again I hope they really fix up season 4:
News: They don’t consider the Pegasus Flashback Movie “episode zero”: it’s episodes 1 and 2 of the 22 episode “Season 4″. The season premiere in January is actually referred to as “Episode 3″ by the writers.
I’ll drop you any news I hear if there is something really cool/geeky news for your other show (I am always on the lookout for the next Star Wars/Matrix/LOTR)
Pleased to meet you/
hope you guessed my name/
but what’s puzzling you/
is the nature of my game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-vkSO6mS9E
April 17th, 2007 at 2:58 am
V just wanted to get your thoughts on Equilibrium. Stars Christian Bale (Batman, American Psycho, The Prestige). Otherwise thanks for the insight, gives me something to think about. Pardon me a moment of Voyager recollection, but I think the whole scene with the Admiral and Roslin has a lot to do with what Janeway said was the urge to pair up since everyone is all alone and far from home. I think that is why scenes like these are put in, to reinforce the notion that this fleet is so far from their homes. Anyway, thanks for that. Matt and Nat, as always…thanks for the hours of great entertainment. You have a loyal fan here. Hope to hear from you again soon.
April 17th, 2007 at 5:02 pm
Re:Pegasus movie
personally, I’m hoping that Anders turns out to be the first XO on the Pegasus. He’s the right age to have “Surved with her for years” and was unseen by most of the original Pegasus staff. Also, he’s had a very low profile since returning to Galactica. He’s off on some freighter or frakking starbuck… but doesn’t do much else till he enters flight training. Therefore, the fact that he’s not recognized by anyone works…
April 20th, 2007 at 3:24 pm
Wow, Elle, that’s a fun observation… that certainly would be a cool storyline to see. Although one must wonder if the Pyramid Players of the Colonies have the kind of profile that, say, hockey or baseball players have for us. If so, Samuel T. Anders of the C-Bucks might be a recognizable face throughout the entire fleet.
I guess we’ll see how much of the information RDM has been giving in the area of the Final Five holds true… because if they have no other copies, then there’s a lot of stretching to do make the Pegasus storyline have something to do with four characters that were never on that particular battlestar at all!
~Matt
April 22nd, 2007 at 10:40 pm
Matt
What you have said about the four caracter, the four of the final five that we know, that they never been on the Pegasus, Chief Tyrol serve on the Pegasus before seving on the Galactica. It’s one of the thing that he said when Tigh supect him of being a cylon after Boomer shot Adama.
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:31 am
Holy crap, Ludovic, I just checked and you’re right… he mentions three battlestars that he’s been serving on since he was 18 (10 years ago, by what he says in the mini) and one of the Battlestars is Pegasus. Awesome. I wonder if there’s anyway to incorporate Tyrol into this new Pegasus story, since it’s supposed to take place 3 months after the Cylon attack.
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:46 pm
I can’t believe how much work went into that – truly hillariously brilliant. “You alright fish?” and “Eight party!” had me laughing like a loon.
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:46 pm
Hilarious! Not to mention dead on! The jump the shark scene was hilarious.
“When the commander of the Battlestar Galactica tells you to jump the shark, you jump the shark!”
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:52 pm
[...] “When the commander of the Battlestar Galactica tells you to jump the shark, you jump the shar… [...]
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:54 pm
By the way, Matt, excellent portrayal of Baltar. You clearly love the character, and your portrayal of him in those skits show that quite well.
Odd question: Does that happen to be your copy of Tricia’s Playboy issue?
April 23rd, 2007 at 9:39 pm
@ davros: Oh gosh, “fish” still gives me the shudders with how REAL it looks hahaha. And thanks, glad you enjoyed the “Eight Party!”
@ Joe B: Actually, that happens to be MY copy of Tricia’s Playboy issue
~Nat
April 23rd, 2007 at 9:50 pm
Oh Lords of Kobol…..that was the most amazing thing I have ever seen on the internet to date
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:45 pm
BRILLIANT!!! I love Casey and Rudy so much and to see them do this with you… great job to you all.
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:46 pm
wow
wow
I cannot think of a more scathing, and succinct, accurate critique of season 3.
***as I keep pointing out, it WAS “Great” through Collaborators, but Teh Sheet hit the Fan from “Torn” onwards
Adama’s acting went from “Great!” to making him intentionally mumble stuff like “do your job” etc. etc. low and gravely…I point to how in “Hero” they thought that if he talked low and deep enough it woudl sell a ridiculous premise.
Roslin didn’t get enough to do; they openly admitted this. Apollo went in 5 directions and they kept tripping it up. ***I will say that obviously, in the last 3 episodes Apollo and Roslin started getting “Great” again so I do have hope for season 4.
Meanwhile…..look, I have a forgiving nature, and as for “Woman King”…they said up front “The Sagittaron Storyarc tripped us up”. But still….it WRECKED season 3.5! ***And some people are PO’d at Helo in “A Measure of Salvation”; I didn’t mind that. That was a reason for him to be there.
But lately it’s just “insert Helo even when we cannot justify a reason for him being there”….and its happening at the expense of screentime that could be used for other characters. I mean “Helo becomes CAG after Apollo and Starbuck are gone”??? YEs, there needs to be economy of characters but it was just kind of forced.
Starbuck also barely appeared and went from “strong female pilot” to “hopeless drunk frakking a man she doesn’t really care about but not bothering to change”…..****they ARE making STarbuck a whole new situation in season 4 what with everything that’s happening, but in and of itself….she also had a bad season.
Number Six? Barely present. Lucy Lawless? Overused and overhyped. Even *I* was looking foward to it and then it was just not worth it.
***Gaeta and Number Eigh were the only ones that had a reasonably good season.
******************************************IRONICALLY, MATT AND NAT, and I want this to SINK IN: Your “Parody” sketches of Cally fighting with Athena actually gave her MORE screentime or development than she got during season 3 itself!
***I think Cally is a great character, and she stinks now….then again so do Roslin, Apollo, and Starbuck so at least she’s in the same boat. But her heaviest episodes were the worst ones like Dirty Hands.
AND THE MUSIC! We went from getting “Prelude to War” and “Wander My Friends” in a given season to…Battlestar Sonatica and All Along the Watchtower. These weren’t “bad” it’s just that they weren’t something I was gushing over like WMF and PTW.
There’s just too many characters on screen; didn’t they promise to start killing them off?
There was this 12 episode stretch (after the first 5 but before the last 3) where it was just UGH!
And “Apollo/Dualla” and “Starbuck/Anders” Love Polygon! (I didn’t mind S/A in season 2 but it rapidly deteriorated in season 3);
You guys really drove the point home: season 3 devolved into Love Polygon ANGST rather than actually adressing anything. And you know, it was just that nothing was being DONE: I mean if Apollo beat up Anders or something, that would have been a bad choice on his part but it would have advanced the storyline. Instead, they just sat around being miserable, essentially VERBALLY slapping each other, which doesn’t advance their situation one way or the other.
Wow. Just WOW, was that scathing; and deservedly so. Who did *well* this season? Tigh, Gaeta, and to an extent Sharon.
It’s almost enough to make me not want to spend 2 weeks straight without sleep in early May setting up my website…almost
Season 3 had a lot of problems and I think they really need to recognize them, but otherwise I think we’ll be alright.
I mean they just focused on making a MOVIE QUALITY New Caprica story…..and then the rest was just MUSH.
Have you noticed how NONE of it is quotable anymore?
I mean I don’t turn off an episode in season 3.5 and go “wow, that will be fun to quote in casual conversation” as I did with season 2.0
Why do you think Romo Lampkin was so popular on the bboards? He revitalized the show with his snarky dark and ambiguous character.
Well, I’m off to the Shadow Gallery….I’ll drop by YourGeekNews to spread more revolutionary propaganda…
Pleased to meet you/
hope you guessed my name/
but what’s puzzling you/
is the nature of my game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-vkSO6mS9E
April 24th, 2007 at 8:41 am
Writing this episode with you guys was one of the greatest experiences of my life. 12 hours of gags, takes costumes … plus fajitas. We really have to do it again sometime. So say we all.
April 24th, 2007 at 9:36 am
Holy crap that was awesome! I cried laughing! I really liked the Athena/Cally cat fight, reminds me of the cut scene in The Son Also Rises. Which I think is total crap that they cut it!!
Keep up the great work.
April 24th, 2007 at 4:24 pm
Wonderful, Awesome, I’m still laughing.
Great parody of BSG.
The fun the cast must have had, was it just one big party?
Are you planning for the Galacticast cast members to be in another show with BSGcast?
GREAT WORK!!
April 24th, 2007 at 7:40 pm
@Joe B.: Nat’s lying… that’s actually MY issue of Tricia Helfer’s Playboy! Shame on you, Nat…
April 25th, 2007 at 5:46 am
Hah hah, You’re RIGHT Casey, touche! I forgot that I left my issue in Toronto… do you think Matt and Rudy are suspicious that we both have copies of Number Six in the buck?
~Nat
April 25th, 2007 at 1:36 pm
Brilliant stuff guys, the Adama stuff cracked me up!
“… Do your job.”
“You heard the old man launch the nukes!”
*head shake*
“Jump the fleet!”
*head shake*
“Launch the Vipers!”
“Do your job.”
I’ve decided that’s going to be my new catchphrase!
Quick question, where are all your other episodes go? I can only find 3.11+
April 26th, 2007 at 6:59 pm
@Nat: Nahh… Rudy bought me my issue! He’s knows I’d totally go gay for Tricia
April 26th, 2007 at 6:59 pm
@Casey: Know… Hope… Dream about…
April 26th, 2007 at 7:35 pm
@ Casey, Rudy… the whole world:
I have a confession to make… I technically bought Nat’s copy for her too… she wanted it pretty bad, but when I saw it in the Gas Station I thought “Yeah, I’ll be that dirty looking dude who buys Playboy ‘just for the article’ this one time”… and she loved it… totally worth the sidelong glances in the Gas Station from the mother that was buying easter chocolate for her kids
~Matt
April 26th, 2007 at 7:38 pm
@Casey, Rudy…the whole world:
I will neither confirm nor deny the story
@Matt: You’re DEAD.
~Nat
April 27th, 2007 at 12:28 pm
Hey,
Matt, I love your theory about the twelve cylon models being the lords of kobol. But I can’t agree with you on Starbuck being a hybrid; head six tells Baltar that Hera is the first hybrid child. Granted that she believes it when told that Hera is dead, I believe she IS an angel of the cylon god. Both the fact that she helps Baltar in so many obscure but real ways, and that Caprica 6 sees a head Baltar, cannot really be explained logically any other way. So I am pretty confident that Hera is the first hybrid, and thus Starbuck cannot be one.
Also, have you noticed that Baltar has always been wherever Hera has been, since her birth? Whenever Hera is with the fleet, Baltar is with the fleet, whenever Hera is on New Caprica, Baltar is on New Caprica, and whenever Hera is with the cylons, Baltar is with the cylons. This also kind of confirms that Hera is the first hybrid, and that Baltar is the protector of the hybrids.
April 27th, 2007 at 5:04 pm
Don’t you think you’re being a tad bit unjustifyably mean?
April 28th, 2007 at 12:45 pm
It was interesting to say the least. Glad to see I’m not the only one going “Out of my facking Mind” here. But any way glad to see you just doing your job.
April 29th, 2007 at 1:40 pm
Way to go! I was wondering what you guys would come up with next – this I definitely did not expect. One thing I’m noticing here: everyone would love to be like Adama. Roslin and Baltar came up way too short for my taste, so please DO ANOTHER… I meant, DO YOUR JOBS…
SSWE,
Ripley
April 30th, 2007 at 11:47 pm
“… Do your job.”
“You heard the old man launch the nukes!”
*head shake*
“Jump the fleet!”
*head shake*
“Launch the Vipers!”
“Do your job.”
That bit had me rolling on the floor here at work. I’m still trying to regain my balance. Thanks for the brilliant episode. Nat, humor, modesty, curiosity, yeah, you have it all. Any room for me at the Eight Party?
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:52 pm
Nat I would pay big money for 8 of you to go do…whatever it is….that 8 of you do…with….in…….Very funny BSGcast guys. Had me loling all the way through.
May 4th, 2007 at 7:43 am
We’re so jazzed that you guys all got such a kick out of the project… we’ve been talking with Rudy and Casey from the Galacticast about what to do for our next collaboration, since we had so much fun doing this one… I’m sure we’ll have something pretty entertaining coming down the pipe soon!
~Matt
May 4th, 2007 at 3:42 pm
@Scanner: You know, I don’t know what got into him, but Matt just stopped rolling as that 8 party got going. There’s a whole missing scene there!
~Nat
May 9th, 2007 at 7:35 pm
mmbop, LMAO, can’t stop thinking about it
June 22nd, 2007 at 5:12 am
Okay, I know the video is from April, but here in Germany we’re currently at Season 2.2 anyway
So, even though I’m not very good at understanding spoken English (writing/reading is ok), I found your video very funny. Really professional. And Casey and Rudy were great, too.
I too loved the “Do your job” parts
They are seriously cult!
I even made some “Do your job” wallpapers for my cellphone. If someone is interested you can download them here: http://www.markig.com/bsg/
Keep up the great work, Matt & Nat!
July 26th, 2007 at 12:23 pm
Oh my gods! That was AMAZING I’m going BSG wild so that really keeps my BSG obessiven meater feed! I got a riot of laghing started at my houes with my anti-sci-fi friends with this clip ep.
One Question; is BSG season 3 coming out in Augest??? XD I’ve been waiting for what seems like ages!
July 29th, 2007 at 11:15 pm
That’s just the best BSG parody ever!, great job, I just had to say that, and put it in writting, amazing job.
November 9th, 2007 at 10:38 am
why don’t u do a spoof verson of the other seasons than just do season 3 i will be well funny and good, it will be like spaceballs.
March 2nd, 2008 at 7:49 pm
I finally got a chance to check this out as someone on a board wondered if members of our podcast were in it. I wish we had been. This was hilarious. Keep up the good work and if you need a Caprica 6 look-a-like, I’m your cylon.
Much love,
Michele
Galactica Quorum Podcast
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Hmm. Good.
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Thanks for this – great idea.
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Thanks for the great tips.
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